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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1108
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 17:22:00 -
[421] - Quote
Lyyraia wrote:Xavier Vora wrote:The upgrades are nice but after the patch i went from being able ti run 33km3 to less than 15k m3 if the patch was supposed to improve the ship so more people would use it then i think you have got this "improvement" very wrong. So you give more medium slots but remove 2 low slots. This ship is supposed to be a hauler i think you have gotten a bit lost on this one, i for one will not be using it anymore.
who do i need to speak to about getting the time i spent in SP for the t2 haulers back so i can put them to some good use, the time spent getting these has been a total waste of time which means a total waste of subscription.
you ****** this up. 60k m-¦ Fleethanger??
Pretty sure it was implemented at 50k but your point still stand, it is in both case a good upgrade.
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Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos
158
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 17:27:00 -
[422] - Quote
I've always been a Gallente fan and had an occator in my hangar usually for keep sakes since the Iteron Mark V was always better at hauling more and was significantly faster. Considering that I live in FW space (i.e. The most dangerous space in game at the moment) I usually just used the Viator and made a few runs to haul in a load of cruisers or modules. Anyways I undocked the Occator with the alt yesterday, flew it over to Jita travel fit and then proceeded to load up 5 cruisers and 10 frigs into the Occator and moved them back to my HQ in lowsec.
Needless to say, these new DST are the perfect mid sized haulers for lowsec now. The specialized T1 ore, ammo, etc holds are nice but the multipurpose DST to haul everything at once is just convenient. The alt is about to finish training Transport ships lvl 4 and will start on lvl 5 right after. +1 for listening to the players and finally giving us a good mid-sized hauler.
Also, for those who are still thinking about the tanking and OH bonuses being pointless. Don't look at it in the situation of if you get caught off a gate because 99% of the time you're dead. Think about it instead about when you undock on a kick out station and need to make it back 1-2km or when there's a tornado or two hoping to just alpha you before you can warp off. That's where the tanking will help. It's nice to have during those random moments. --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::------- |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1108
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:03:00 -
[423] - Quote
Yun Kuai wrote:
Also, for those who are still thinking about the tanking and OH bonuses being pointless. Don't look at it in the situation of if you get caught off a gate because 99% of the time you're dead. Think about it instead about when you undock on a kick out station and need to make it back 1-2km or when there's a tornado or two hoping to just alpha you before you can warp off. That's where the tanking will help. It's nice to have during those random moments.
This is an extremely good point to make. Gate camp will usually hold you too hard to warp away anyway and 12k is a long ass way to run back to gate. |

Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
728
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 18:17:00 -
[424] - Quote
Xavier Vora wrote:The upgrades are nice but after the patch i went from being able ti run 33km3 to less than 15k m3 if the patch was supposed to improve the ship so more people would use it then i think you have got this "improvement" very wrong. So you give more medium slots but remove 2 low slots. This ship is supposed to be a hauler i think you have gotten a bit lost on this one, i for one will not be using it anymore.
who do i need to speak to about getting the time i spent in SP for the t2 haulers back so i can put them to some good use, the time spent getting these has been a total waste of time which means a total waste of subscription.
you ****** this up. "I didn't bother to read OP" |

Firelyz
Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 07:16:00 -
[425] - Quote
Armor transport are unbalanced , with Bustard i cannot fit 10 mn mwd + medium micro jump drive since the grid is very low, but the gallente and amarr version can do it with no problem ( triple propulsion with occator lol ) , also if you want to use that as a pure transport amarr and gallente can easly achive 24k base cargo + 66k fleet hangar , shield transport can go max 14k cargo +66k . Base speed are greater on amarr and gallente than caldari and minmatar thats a bit lol |

Stuhami
Hyper Compu-Global MegaCorp
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 08:21:00 -
[426] - Quote
Hello,
This is my Post patch feedback on the Kronos changes for the Deep Space transports based on my experience with it.
DST TANKING BONUS
Before the release of Kronos I tested the DST tank in singularity. I instantly noticed that the tank would not be viable as active tank. Yes, even with the bonus an active tank is frail at best and passive tanks can be broken. Even with the 100% to the overheat bonus, the tank is not viable, passive or active, against a serious opponents of which there are many in low and null-sec which is where the Deep space transport is supposed to live. Even with a 70k EHP passive tank it only serves to delay the inevitable which is the destruction of the ship. You can be bumped returning to the gate which happens all the time and is the MO of any seasoned pirate.
Quote:Instead of having a 100% to overheat bonus which will only be used when you are already completely flunked, remove it and for every level in transport ships give it a 15% bonus reduction to spool up time to the microjump drive or a 75% reduction to spool up time of the micro jump drive...
...With this proposed change the spool up time of the medium micro jump drive could be as low as 2.25 seconds. Fast enough to put some room in between you and your attackers but not fast enough to be uncatchable by dedicated long points or camps ready to catch the ship.
MEDIUM MICRO JUMP DRIVE
IN NULL SEC After also testing it in singularity I immediately noticed that the medium micro jump drive is also useless in a ship made for the passing of stargates in low/null sec space. The activation time is simply to long for it not to be completely nullified by one single warp scrambler and even though you retain your ability to warp the whole idea of a micro jump drive is so you can pass bubbles which you can't if your scrammed. This makes it so if there is a bubbled gate, there is not chance of making it out if your scrammed.
Quote:You can be bumped returning to the gate which happens all the time and is the MO of any seasoned pirate.
IN LOW SEC In low sec the need for the microjump module is less because of the inability to use bubbles. But we also run into the same problem, a single scram can get you flunked. So let say that by an off chance that scram is a Heavy interdicter with a scrip on it and you are perma-flunked and unable to microjump either; A two for one no one wants. Now include the fact that DST are slow for started and that the MJD takes a spool up time of 12 seconds, that gives a heavy interdicter more than enough time to put that infinite point on you right from the jump in, since the heavy interdicter at level 4 has a range of at least 28 meters with the scrip going; giving a Deep transport ship not time to do anything at all be it warp or micro jump and try to warp after. The returning to the gate and being bumped is probably more prevalent in low sec since returning to the gate at this stage would be the only possible solution.
ADVISORY For all those troll prone posters who would like to start saying "Ohh that's what scouts are for" so you don't get caught in a camp, It's important to remember that making this type of ship, and by that I mean non capital, balanced on the use of more than one account, be it by the transport ship user or a friend, is not balance at all. All ships are viable solo at their job unless their job is to support a fleet. This would make it unprofitable to even use deep space transport ships in the first place. And it's this same attribute by which people prefer using blockade runners than DST because of their ability to go through blockades with such a good survival/death ratio without the absolute need of a scout. Please read "absolute" as it's good if you have it but your not completely flunked if you don't.
THE SOLUTION
Well then you might ask yourself how we make this ship viable for the use as a deep space transport without making it completely uncatchable/overpowered. The answer could be a simple one. Instead of having a 100% to overheat bonus which will only be used when you are already completely flunked, remove it and for every level in transport ships give it a 15% bonus reduction to spool up time to the micro jump drive or a 75% reduction to spool up time of the micro jump drive.
REASONING
Tanking has never been the strongpoint of a transport ship and even if tanking abilities were made 100 times better the idea of the ship is to get the good to their respective place safely and not brawling it out. By giving DST ships a bonus to spool up time of microjump drive you do 2 things. The first of these is that it makes so that a level 5 transport ship pilot dedicated to transport ships can put some distance from his attackers and him in a considerably short amount of time and second by reducing the spool up time but not eliminating it you create a window for the pilot being caught.
With this proposed change the spool up time of the medium micro jump drive could be as low as 2.25 seconds. Fast enough to put some room in between you and your attackers but not fast enough to be uncatchable by dedicated long points or camps ready to catch a ship. |

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1237
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 12:04:00 -
[427] - Quote
If you want to break through gate camps, or "run blockades", there's a set of ships designed for just that purpose.
You've just got stuck on the name "deep space transport". A better name would be "highsec transport". |

Stuhami
Hyper Compu-Global MegaCorp
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 04:50:00 -
[428] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:If you want to break through gate camps, or "run blockades", there's a set of ships designed for just that purpose.
You've just got stuck on the name "deep space transport". A better name would be "highsec transport".
Diminishing micro hump time wont get you past gate camps since 2 seconds is more than enough for a frigate or dedicated point to eliminate your ability to use the MJD... As for Hughsec transport part; well if that was the case there wouldnt be a tanking bonus in the first place. Gank is the name of the game in highsec and they will do it no matter what ship you have.
I just feel that there is no reason for a tanking bonus on a ship that can't tank worth a damn and if it needs to tank it's because it will probably die anyway to whatever caught it since there is no way he is getting back to the gate with a AF overheated while being bumbped. He will burn it out and then die.
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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1239
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 11:23:00 -
[429] - Quote
Stuhami wrote:Diminishing micro jump time wont get you past gate camps since 2 seconds is more than enough for a frigate or dedicated point to eliminate your ability to use the MJD...
So your idea of reducing it would be pointless, then?
Stuhami wrote:As for Hughsec transport part; well if that was the case there wouldnt be a tanking bonus in the first place. Gank is the name of the game in highsec and they will do it no matter what ship you have.
Don't be ridiculous. If you think tank is worthless in a highsec transport, then I think you need to be ganked more.
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Arctic Estidal
Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 12:16:00 -
[430] - Quote
I hope this discussion has not finished as we need to fix the issues with this ship and where it sits in the industrial ship chain.
Both T2 industrial ships must be looked at from a null sec hauling option first before low sec and high sec are considered, as it is pointless having a T2 industrial ships that don't work in null sec where all the danger exists.
Blockade Runner
The BR is primarily used for transporting in null sec. It can with cargo expanders fit a little over 10k in cargo and is good for most hauling up to a packaged cruiser (10k). This ship is the day to day null sec hauler and will generally survive solo ships trying to tackle. Landing in a gate camp is really a 50/50 unless fully nano fit, which improves your chances considerably, but you may only have 3k cargo, which is the trade-off.
This ship is perfect and shouldn't be changed. The option of crashing the gate is perfect for this ship due to its agility and speed.
Deep Space Transport
The DST should never be considered as requiring a scout or fleet protection. If you have a scout of fleet you should be able to fly T1 industrials with no problem of running into a gate camp. DST's have to be the other solo transport option.
They should have: 1. Big cargo capacity; 2. Universal utility (pos structures, minerals, ammo, ships etc) 3. Slow, heavy and good tank;
This allows the ship to manage large, bulky items across large distances where the BR is incapable of handling the item size. The tank on these ships really doesn't do anything if you are tackled because if you are tackled you are dead, just like the BR.
I use this ship solely for transporting packaged ships and some unpackaged ships, as a carrier or JF is total overkill for the job. With 60k you can transport packaged ships (6x Cruiser hulls, 4x Battlecruisers, or 1x Battleship). This is perfect for the industrialist/trader, but the DST has to be a universal industrial ship and needs to be able to manage not just ships but all items.
Currently the Fleet Hanger can transport all items from ships, ammo, minerals, modules and PI materials. It seems like a pointless distinction between the cargo bay and fleet hanger when they can take the same items. This should just be merged into a single bay which can be increased with skills, rigs and modules.
Micro Jump Drive
The MJD is pointless. The cloak/mjd trick does not work. When used you look on your screen cloaked but to everyone you are sitting still, 100% uncloaked, with the MJD warp signature clearly visible. The only option for the MJD is jumping out of bubbles. But if you land at a bubble, the gate will most likely be under 100km so you cannot MJD and have to very slowly travel towards the gate and you are definitely dead by anyone within 3 jumps of your position.
With scramblers killing both the MJD and MWD the MJD becomes useful only for getting out of bubbles when no-one is around. If you are in a bubble with no-one around the MJD is pointless as you donGÇÖt mind spending 20mins slowly traveling out of the bubble.
Gate Camps
The primary danger for any transport ship is a single ship landing on the gate with you. Currently one ship will kill this ship very quickly with a scrambler. Fitting stabs means they need more points but you now only have an AB to accelerate you.
If you are in a bubble with a single ship with a scram, you are dead and any thought of crashing the gate wonGÇÖt work. You wonGÇÖt be moving very fast and they will just grab you on the other side, if you can make it in the first place which is very unlikely.
Organised camps with a dictor pilot (which all gate camps have) means this ship is dead. The idea this can run gate camps is ridiculous at the moment.
HOW TO IMPROVE THIS SHIP
Cargo Space
Turn the ship into a single universal transport ship which can handle all situations enabling the ship to be fit for its intended purpose. Have a single cargo hold which can take fitted ships, package ships, minerals, ammo, POS structures etc. Make the cargo hold large (100k) so that it becomes a useful ship.
Gate Camps
The BR uses stealth, ability and speed to avoid enemy ships. The DST needs to be able to run through these gate camps. If the ship uses tank to overcome the gate camps, then there are a couple of options. Keep the tank ability and bonuses to reps etc and add to these bonuses the following:
1.Bubble immunity;
Provide bubble immunity but make the ship take an extended time to get to warp, so it has to sit there tanking the damage. If incorrectly fit or if there is too much damage the ship will die. The DST should never have to travel at sub-warp speed. It should just warp point-to-point and thatGÇÖs it. If it does move at sub-warp, its current speed if fine (less than 200m/s). Bubble immunity does not provide an overpowered ship as it can always be tackled if the warp stabilizers are overcome.
2.Deep Space Scan
Allow the ship to scan the other side of stargates and jump bridges to see what lies ahead. A pilot could land on grid with the stargate, lock the gate and select d-scan or activate a module which would use the stargate as a conduit to scan the destination system. A report would be produced (like d-scan) which would advise if any ships are on grid, ship type and if bubbles exist. Its scan range may be limited to 250km around the destination gate, so you canGÇÖt scan for everything in the system just around the gate area.
(continued below) |
|

Arctic Estidal
Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 12:17:00 -
[431] - Quote
(Continued from above)
3.Warp Stabilizer Bonus
Require ships to overcome the warp stabilizer before scrams, webs etc, are effective at slowing the ship, shutting down MWD and MJD and preventing warp. This ship just sits still when it tries to do anything and is unable to evade ships. Therefore pilots needs to decide the cargo space/warp stabilizer ratio. More stabs less cargo but more safety and vice/versa. If the align and warp time is extended so the ship sits on grid longer before warping, the tank would become the factor in the survival ratio of the ship.
4.Remove AB and MWD speed bonuses
The DST is not meant for speed that is the role of the BR with its high agility, sub-warp speed and warp speed. There is absolutely no need for these bonuses as it should be used for point-to-point travel. In all other situations it should take a long time for it to travel at sub-warp speed.
These above changes would make this ship a useful and effective ship for its purposes. It wouldnGÇÖt make the ship overpowered and could still be killed once the warp stabilizers are overcome.
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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1243
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 12:24:00 -
[432] - Quote
Two solo transport options are neither needed nor desirable, as one would inevitably supplant the other. The niche of "escorted, high-capacity hauler" is better.
A DST has twice the cargo of a T1 hauler. When scouting fails, the extra tank of a DST has value. |

Arctic Estidal
Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 13:28:00 -
[433] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Two solo transport options are neither needed nor desirable, as one would inevitably supplant the other. The niche of "escorted, high-capacity hauler" is better.
A DST has twice the cargo of a T1 hauler. When scouting fails, the extra tank of a DST has value.
You must not fly transport haulers. There is usually no scout for this type of transport and if you get caught with a scout you deserve to lose the ship. The tank is pointless you will just sit there until your tank melts. |

Komi Toran
Perkone Caldari State
124
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 13:28:00 -
[434] - Quote
Arctic Estidal wrote:Currently the Fleet Hanger can transport all items from ships, ammo, minerals, modules and PI materials. It seems like a pointless distinction between the cargo bay and fleet hanger when they can take the same items. This should just be merged into a single bay which can be increased with skills, rigs and modules. Let me guess: you fly either a Bustard or a Mastadon. I know an Impel pilot would never say such an ignorant thing. |

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
181
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 16:00:00 -
[435] - Quote
Actually, the resistance to being webbed is an interesting idea. Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |

Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
433
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 16:41:00 -
[436] - Quote
Karash Amerius wrote:Actually, the resistance to being webbed is an interesting idea.
This, but I also think it'd be a bit OP. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1243
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 17:42:00 -
[437] - Quote
Arctic Estidal wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Two solo transport options are neither needed nor desirable, as one would inevitably supplant the other. The niche of "escorted, high-capacity hauler" is better.
A DST has twice the cargo of a T1 hauler. When scouting fails, the extra tank of a DST has value. You must not fly transport haulers. There is usually no scout for this type of transport and if you get caught with a scout you deserve to lose the ship. The tank is pointless you will just sit there until your tank melts.
I do. When I moving stuff through WHs unscouted, I fly the one designed for unscouted hauling - the blockade runner. If I want to move bigger cargos, I get an escort/ scout and use the DST. Or an Orca, or whatever.
What's the point of wanting to make the DST into a bad kind of blockade runner? |

Arctic Estidal
Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 05:46:00 -
[438] - Quote
If people have a big issue with the bubble immunity, then make players have to overcome the warp core stabilizers (WCS) before points, scrams and webs take effect.
The resistance to webs is a good idea, where level 5 transport ships skill will provide 100% assistance/resistance and force the tackler to overcome WCS before they can take effect.
If the skill is not at level 5 then the webs will have an effect and the WCS will not need to be 100% overcome for the webs to slow or turn off the MWD/MJD.
I still think that the WCS need to protect the MJD and MWD for this ship. It may be a special attribute for this ship only. But this ship needs a special ability that doesn't get it out of jail every time but increases its chance for survival. |

Jasmin Fox
Keeper of the Black Star
29
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 06:08:00 -
[439] - Quote
The Inability for a Transport to use the fleet hanger to fill directly at a POCO is a mess. You move the items, but you cant see them in their new location. Only after docking, they magically appear.
Fix it please. |

The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
261
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 09:07:00 -
[440] - Quote
Arctic Estidal wrote: The MJD is pointless. The cloak/mjd trick does not work. When used you look on your screen cloaked but to everyone you are sitting still, 100% uncloaked, with the MJD warp signature clearly visible. The only option for the MJD is jumping out of bubbles. But if you land at a bubble, the gate will most likely be under 100km so you cannot MJD and have to very slowly travel towards the gate and you are definitely dead by anyone within 3 jumps of your position.
With scramblers killing both the MJD and MWD the MJD becomes useful only for getting out of bubbles when no-one is around. If you are in a bubble with no-one around the MJD is pointless as you donGÇÖt mind spending 20mins slowly traveling out of the bubble.
MJD can bring your ship out of harms way if it takes longer than 9s to put a scram at you(for example against a BC that is 25km away from you when you spawn on grid). It also can help a lot to get off a station that is bubbled or where you don't have a insta undock to get off the undock spot quick. Overall is is a fairly practical tool for hauling high value cargo in low sec and 0.0 plus gives you another way to get away from some tornado's or simply the undock of trade hub stations in high sec that can be crowded and makes alignment from there fairly hard.
The mjd claok trick doesn't work any more because it negated the effect of bubbles, however mwd + cloak does at any gate that isn't bubbled if the person that tries to catch you isn't on the ball or you get unlucky.
Arctic Estidal wrote:Currently the Fleet Hanger can transport all items from ships, ammo, minerals, modules and PI materials. It seems like a pointless distinction between the cargo bay and fleet hanger when they can take the same items. This should just be merged into a single bay which can be increased with skills, rigs and modules.
The idea is that you can't increase the fleet hangar by rigs and modules. It is kind of a guaranteed cargo size, what gives you more flexibility with the low slots and rigs, since you don't need to stack cargo extenders or cargo rigs. If CCP would have wanted one by they would have given DSTs 15-20k m-¦ and leave it to the players to stack up mods to get that up to the current amount of what DSTs can carry.
Arctic Estidal wrote:(Continued from above)
3.Warp Stabilizer Bonus
Require ships to overcome the warp stabilizer before scrams, webs etc, are effective at slowing the ship, shutting down MWD and MJD and preventing warp. This ship just sits still when it tries to do anything and is unable to evade ships. Therefore pilots needs to decide the cargo space/warp stabilizer ratio. More stabs less cargo but more safety and vice/versa. If the align and warp time is extended so the ship sits on grid longer before warping, the tank would become the factor in the survival ratio of the ship.
It would be next to impossible to stop a mjd,mwd, cloak fitted ship when you need 4 scrams(or 3 dead space) to shut it down in most gate camps. A blockade runner is also not 100% save, when you spawn in a bad spot close to drones, wrecks or even other ships you can't cloak and you can be very easy one volleyed off the field or de cloaked by a skilled ceptor pilot while you try to leave the bubble.
Arctic Estidal wrote:4.Remove AB and MWD speed bonuses
The DST is not meant for speed that is the role of the BR with its high agility, sub-warp speed and warp speed. There is absolutely no need for these bonuses as it should be used for point-to-point travel. In all other situations it should take a long time for it to travel at sub-warp speed.
You need the bonus for the mwd+cloak trick in some fittings to archive a relay able result, it helps to move back to a gate when you are not scrammed or to pass a few km of bubble to reach your gate after coming out of warp(at least a bit, they are still bricks). It is useful when landing 1km outside of the dock range to close that last few hundred meters quick or to access different silos at a pos or the tower to refill it, loot wrecks at a gate quick or clear some cans that are spaced out in a belt.
As for DSTs, the shield ones need a few points more CPU and power grid(10-15 base points), because shield fittings need more CPU for the tank than armor hulls and the higher power grid on the armor DSTs scales a lot better with RCUs to allow more options in mjd/mwd/claok setups. Currently most good fittings are a few points short on power grid or cpu(even after stuff like storyline MWDs or faction Invus to save CPU) and need to drop a lot of tank compared to the armor versions to archive the same result. While it would be still very expensive to do something like this with a better tank than the normal 800mm + ANPs fitting on the armor DSTs, it should be at least a option.
[Mastodon, MWD/MJD/Cloak] Internal Force Field Array I Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 10MN Digital Booster Rockets Medium Micro Jump Drive
Caldari Navy Cloaking Device [empty high slot]
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
0.49 cpu left, with astro rigging 5 and over a billion in faction mods to save the CPU, 15 points short on power grid if you want to use 2 TS RCUs + 1 TS PDU for the extra shield and to save the CPU to get a CN LSE in. That is ridiculous in my opinion, especially if the use of cpu implant/shield upgrade implant on hauler chars cost you a lot performance because you want warp speed or normal speed implants(to do mwd + cloak more relay able on some hulls) in the same slot more often than not. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
261
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 09:29:00 -
[441] - Quote
As for DSTs, the shield ones need a few points more CPU and power grid(10-15 base points), because shield fittings need more CPU for the tank than armor hulls and the higher power grid on the armor DSTs scales a lot better with RCUs to allow more options in mjd/mwd/claok setups. Currently most good fittings are a few points short on power grid or cpu(even after stuff like storyline MWDs or faction Invus to save CPU) and need to drop a lot of tank compared to the armor versions to archive the same result. While it would be still very expensive to do something like this with a better tank than the normal 800mm + ANPs fitting on the armor DSTs, it should be at least a option.
[Mastodon, MWD/MJD/Cloak] Internal Force Field Array I Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 10MN Digital Booster Rockets Medium Micro Jump Drive
Caldari Navy Cloaking Device [empty high slot]
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
0.49 cpu left, with astro rigging 5 and over a billion in faction mods to save the CPU, 15 points short on power grid if you want to use 2 TS RCUs + 1 TS PDU for the extra shield and to save the CPU to get a CN LSE in. That is ridiculous in my opinion, especially if the use of cpu implant/shield upgrade implant on hauler chars cost you a lot performance because you want warp speed or normal speed implants(to do mwd + cloak more relay able on some hulls) in the same slot more often than not.
[Mastodon, reasonable] Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II Co-Processor II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy Medium Shield Extender Medium Micro Jump Drive
Caldari Navy Cloaking Device Core Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I /OFFLINE
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
This only fits with astro rigging 5, else you have to drop down to meta 4 DCU. 0.5 cpu and 5 power grid left with perfect skills with a lot less tank than on my armor DST and hardly any room to improve it without spending a billion ISK or sacrificing the warp speed rigs.
[Impel, MWD/MJD/Cloak] Federation Navy 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates True Sansha Reactor Control Unit True Sansha Reactor Control Unit Centii A-Type Thermic Plating Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Damage Control II
Medium Micro Jump Drive Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Caldari Navy Cloaking Device Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe /OFFLINE
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Everything fits just fine with astro rigging 4 on my Amarr DST on another char, even the probe launcher could be on-line in the same fitting if you invest into a storyline plate/mwd, drop the plate to meta 4(more mass -> harder to mwd/claok at gates) or simply switch out a ANP/thermic plating for a I stab(what I normally do for low sec because it makes it a lot easier to bounce after a mjd jump with mwd + cloak).
Long story short the shield DSTs could use a bit more CPU can power grid, because they have a lot less options to save cpu(what are also far more expensive) and the lower power grid doesn't work so well in combination with RCU stacking, like it does on the armor ones. If you drop the warp speed rigs they would be considerable slower than armor ones, especially in combination with warp speed implants. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Raw Matters
NORDIC COMPANY Northern Associates.
41
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Posted - 2014.07.02 09:51:00 -
[442] - Quote
I don't see how the DST has any purpose in a fleet. If you are in 0.0 or low-sec and need to transport valuable cargo from one place to another, you use a jump freighter to do it, because it can skip the danger of running into a gate camp completely. And in high-sec you are better off with a cloaked transport anyways. Which is also better for solo flight. And if you say that the freighter is too expensive and you want a cheap ship for cheap cargo, then any T1 hauler will be much less expensive.
The only role I see the DST fit in currently is to protect against the random, single tackler which tends to sit somewhere cloaked, waiting for pray. So if you are in 0.0/low, fly alone and need to pick up valuable cargo from places where you cannot cloak, then the DST has a fraction of a shining moment. But honestly: I never encountered any such situation, so I'd tend to say: the DST currently has no reasonable role other than to show off how much of an expensive ship you can afford for a minor task.
If you want to make the DST useful, it needs a significant bonus in addition to it's HP. Being able to tank a single attacker is a good thing, but 99% of the time pointless, especially if you have a cloaky alternative which can avoid combat entirely. Something as significant as (pick one or two):
- Ignore bubbles - Warp-scramble immunity - Align time like a frigate - 100k cargo - Dangerous weapon systems (hint: the dual gun slots on the Mastodon is a bad joke), including drones for the tacklers - Short-range jump drive that targets gates instead of cynos (so it can be operated solo)
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
261
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Posted - 2014.07.02 10:44:00 -
[443] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:The DST currently has no reasonable role other than to show off how much of an expensive ship you can afford for a minor task.
Actually they are very handy, they can move 6 cruisers + fittings, drones, rigs and ammo or 4 BCs at around 8 AU/s. Compare that to picking up something form the closest hub in a jump freighter if you need to do a few jumps to get into jump range of your destination.
Not every corp/alliance got a jump network for jump fighters(from the trade hub undock to her destination) and a lot of jumps towards market hubs or cheap orders on the market are still done in a conventional hauler(because it is quicker than to move your fighter around all the time, if you only need a couple of HACs, need to replace a OGB or want a extra neut Armageddon fully fitted in the hangar within the next hour or so). Another thing is WH logistics where you can't use jump freighters or even freighters(mass restriction).
While they are far more expensive than T1 haulers and not as fast/secure than BRs, they are actually fairly useful if you do a lot of corp/alliance logistic because they save trips by the bigger cargo, allow to combine tank(smart bomb BS proof, single Tornado volley proof etc.) and speed(warp speed) better than the T1 counterparts. They also allow you to move BS around without having to train BS 1 at this char, plus on a much faster pace. Another great use is if you have to babysit some reaction posses a few times per week or have to move ore from a Belt to a station/pos(where the freighter takes over). Overall you pay for a tool that saves time and time is more often than not the major bottleneck when it comes to logistics. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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