Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 36 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
LT Alter
Ouroboros Research and Development
127
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:29:00 -
[391] - Quote
Honestly I'm quite pleased to see the constant and open talk from CCP and CSM, I hope this will continue even after this latest issue is fixed. Also, regardless of somer's motivation for doing this or if he thought it was right or not. Somer is at fault for not discussing it with CCP directly before going forward. There is no possible way he was oblivious to the fact that he was receving money for isk.
My opinion on the matter is that Somer should receive a substantial punishment for actively being a part of RMT activities, after all any other player who RMTs would be punished substantially. Though I hope the Somer Blink website remains active, not for anyone's benefit other than the communities though. However it obviously needs to be ensured no RMT can be practiced through the use of the website. |
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:29:00 -
[392] - Quote
I wonder if EVEBet has any action on the outcome of this |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1201
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:33:00 -
[393] - Quote
Tippia wrote:There's no need to stop referral money. They just have to be very clear that you are not allowed to incentivise a real-life transaction of any kind with an in-game transaction of any kind (or vice versa).
And by GÇ£be very clearGÇ¥ I mean, GÇ£they have always been very clear so just shout it louder and don't accept any kind of silly work-aroundsGÇ¥. You are entirely free to do a transaction that involves 1 trit on one end and 1bn ISK on the other without any repercussions. You are also entirely free to engage in cash kickback schemes and ad revenue and whathaveyou to support the out-of-game efforts of other players, such as server hosting and bandwidth fees and the like. It's when you mix the two, when you use one as a quid-pro-quo for the other, that you dive headlong into the putrid ditch of RMT.
I wonder how hard it would be to formalize this into a set of common arrangements which are OK: In-game remuneration for intellectual property derivative of CCP IP for use by in-game groups and services; publications or services accessible by anyone freely, but with optional or non-blocking revenue generators (ads, tip jars, affiliate links), that sort of thing. That way the common and legitimate cases are covered clearly, not as discretionary exceptions, and anything that isn't included at best requires review. Anyone getting impatient with the legal team should be held at arm's length; everyone knows that lawyers move at their own stately pace, and there's no good in-game reason to rush them, or (certainly!) to try to make an end run around them.
(I know my language is somewhat imprecise. This isn't my bailiwick. I am not, and I have never been, a lawyer.)
I am disinclined to any kind of mercy in no small part because of the wheedling and the barefaced attempt to pull the wool over the VP's eyes with that slippery sales pitch. That's not the way you treat anyone you respect. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Pitchfork Vendor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:34:00 -
[394] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:If indeed it determined that it is a scam -RMT operation by SOMERBlink, at least it is worthy of Eve Online. It's not scam-RMT. It's genuine RMT. Pitchforks! Pitchforks! Get your pitchforks here! |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:34:00 -
[395] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote: CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything.
They have said a ton. They have let us know they are looking into it, and they have kept us informed. Within a few hours they will update us. Short of doing it all in front of a webcam there's not much more they could do to communicate. Just let them sort it out, and they will tell us when they are ready. Your statement could not have been more wrong.
They have told us 2 things. That they are looking into it and "we had a meeting and we are now going to lunch". That is not keeping us up to date with any relevant information.
Do they see it as RMT? Was CCP's sales or legal team involved (in giving somer approval, not getting payed off that is too much tinfoilery)? They should not need to have meetings for days to figure those 2 out. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23952
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:37:00 -
[396] - Quote
POS Trader wrote:He said, click the link and buy the PLEX from CCP (or some third party) and I'll give you some ISK for clicking my link. No rocks, or trit involved or some other useless intermediaries involved. No one pays him $$$ except the referral program.
As I said, either cancel ALL referrals (which obviously includes Amazon), or don't. And if you don't, then what SOMER does should not be against rules. GǪand you're still missing the quid-pro-quo between in-game and out-of-game transactions. That is what sets Somer (and RMT in general) apart. It is why Somer is against the rules (and yes, I'm stating that emphatically without waiting for the result of the inquiry since we already know it is from last year's d+¬b+ócle).
It is also completely unrelated to the workings of referral kickbacks so cancelling referrals would be laughably wide of the target.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:37:00 -
[397] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.
With all my respect, instead of transparency If CCP acts this with NDA, then I have doubts of their trustworthness...
We will see. But thank you for your short info.
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
171
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:41:00 -
[398] - Quote
Lauresh Thellere wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Lauresh Thellere wrote:Argus Sorn wrote:Lauresh Thellere wrote: Sigh, I wrote this cool response about how you're being a **** to people who are exhausted from working their asses off the last day or two and have had little to no sleep but the forums ate it.
I will never support being a complete jerk to anyone - but the people who are working their asses off are only doing it because they didn't take appropriate action a year ago. So while they have my respect for their current work, you have to pardon some of us if we aren't exactly sympathetic. This CSM wasn't elected a year ago. Good thing the CSM has no say in what punishments Somer should have received a year ago. Especially given it's clear he's referring to CCP's actions. Reading comprehension yo. I'm well aware of what the poster meant but thanks for pointing out that my reading comprehension is poor simply because I chose to ignore an argument made that would start a pissing match.
Thank you for admitting you ignored what he said and made an inane comment unrelated to what he was saying. It takes an adult to do that. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:42:00 -
[399] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote:KaRa DaVuT wrote: Yes it is blurry in a legal term. But in legality, think simple. It works as action-reaction-cosequence chain.
So simply If you are using your account as part of a profit related with the out-of-game currency/-¦ngame currency trade, It can be count as Business. The term business means gaining a profit from a setup or an activity so, If you are gaining profit and it includes some Illegalites against the bigger rule structure where you are running your business (In this case it is the EVE and EULA is its set of rules ) then it is illegal.
I can understand your approach as you are really neutral to this. and I admire your dedication and poinf of view, hovewer I cannot simply ignore the fact of this thing as its Illegal in all levels.
We will see how much it goes deeper and its not the first time that we see thing like that, adn it seems not the last one.
Fair point. However, I'd clarify one term you used. By "illegal" I think you mean "a violation of the policy".
Yes. Thats the right word.
we will see what will happen in the long run. But based on the CCP's silence and the coming information, they will hurt themselves at the end of this....
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
171
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:45:00 -
[400] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:virm pasuul wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote: CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything.
They have said a ton. They have let us know they are looking into it, and they have kept us informed. Within a few hours they will update us. Short of doing it all in front of a webcam there's not much more they could do to communicate. Just let them sort it out, and they will tell us when they are ready. Your statement could not have been more wrong. They have told us 2 things. That they are looking into it and "we had a meeting and we are now going to lunch". That is not keeping us up to date with any relevant information. Do they see it as RMT? Was CCP's sales or legal team involved (in giving somer approval, not getting payed off that is too much tinfoilery)? They should not need to have meetings for days to figure those 2 out.
Generally, when doing an investigation, people wait until they have the full information before releasing it. A novel concept I know. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
144
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:48:00 -
[401] - Quote
I think he wants CSI CCP |
Ahshalon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:50:00 -
[402] - Quote
i believe right now ccp is in a "we have glued out manbits in a vice" situation. if they open the vice since they are glued it will rip their sack open, but if they close the vice they crush themselves. it's better to just leave the vice dangling there, everyone knows it's there, it's unsightly, but it's not doing as much damage as turning the crank either way will. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
153
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:50:00 -
[403] - Quote
Here's the old thread that discusses SOMERblink's potential earnings from the affiliate program last year, for anyone interested.
Easy to see after those earnings that anything of this magnitude is not being used to cover the costs of server maintenance, and is obvious RMT this time around. TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5288
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:51:00 -
[404] - Quote
Tippia wrote:That is what sets Somer (and RMT in general) apart. It is why Somer is against the rules (and yes, I'm stating that emphatically without waiting for the result of the inquiry since we already know it is from last year's d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ).
FTFY "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
276
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:53:00 -
[405] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:Here's the old thread that discusses SOMERblink's potential earnings from the affiliate program last year, for anyone interested. Easy to see after those earnings that anything of this magnitude is not being used to cover the costs of server maintenance, and is obvious RMT this time around. Thanks for digging that up.
135k through Shattered Star up to May 2013...
...helping pay a portion of server costs... lol |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
601
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:54:00 -
[406] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:I think he wants CSI CCP
thinking of intro music of CSI Miami. LELz xD |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23952
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:55:00 -
[407] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Tippia wrote:That is what sets Somer (and RMT in general) apart. It is why Somer is against the rules (and yes, I'm stating that emphatically without waiting for the result of the inquiry since we already know it is from last year's ß+榦-ꦪ¦¦-£-ó-óe¦¦-í-릦¦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+-ó-íß+禺¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ë-¥a-Ŧ+¦+¦í¦ñ-¥-à-àc¦ó¦í¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-ç-ƒ-ál¦+¦¢-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½¦Ç¦ü-Ö¦+¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦¦á¦ú¦ÿ-à).
FTFY *dope-slap* GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1851
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:59:00 -
[408] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:virm pasuul wrote:I think he wants CSI CCP thinking of intro music of CSI Miami. LELz xD 'Won't get fooled again' by The Who.
Let's hope we don't this time. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3818
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:59:00 -
[409] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Tippia wrote:That is what sets Somer (and RMT in general) apart. It is why Somer is against the rules (and yes, I'm stating that emphatically without waiting for the result of the inquiry since we already know it is from last year's d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ).
FTFY this is an outrage |
Corey Lean
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:59:00 -
[410] - Quote
There comes a point where you have so much isk it becomes meaningless, until you figure out a way to turn that isk into real life dollars and cents. Thats what happened to Somer. |
|
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8243
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:01:00 -
[411] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths.
Mother of god. Genius. ~hi~ |
Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
24
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:02:00 -
[412] - Quote
POS Trader wrote:Andski wrote:POS Trader wrote:Unless CCP stops ALL referral money, a business transaction, then this situation is unavoidable. SOMER does not directly exchange ISK -> $$$. What happens is he's incentivizing purchasing of PLEX through his referral program by paying more ISK for the PLEX than market price in Jita. This way he's losing ISK, and supposedly gaining *some* additional revenue. How much additional revenue? That's up to debate.
buy this rock for $200 and i'll buy a piece of trit from you for 15 billion isk that way i'm losing money this can't possibly be against the rules right He said, click the link and buy the PLEX from CCP (or some third party) and I'll give you some ISK for clicking my link. No rocks, or trit involved or some other useless intermediaries involved. No one pays him $$$ except the referral program. As I said, either cancel ALL referrals (which obviously includes Amazon), or don't. And if you don't, then what SOMER does should not be against rules.
Amazon isn't a referral, they are a third party retailer.
Amazon also doesn't have an account in EVE, and thus is not subject to the TOS and EULA; they are bound by their agreement as a third party retailer.
Many of the sites that use referral links also accept paypal donations. There is no doubt at all that providing anything in return for a paypal donation is a forbidden transaction. Why is it so hard to see, no matter how you paint it up or move it around under a shell, that any incentive in exchange for a donation through a referral link is no different. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
790
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:05:00 -
[413] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple. Is this the kind of attitude we can expect from the community manager going forward? Shouldn't the community manager at least to pretend to care about what the community thinks? And I love how you opted to answer this among all the outstanding questions in this thread. You clearly have the communities best in mind. Edit: The back pating post would be ok and well deserved. If there was any actual progress. I hope so - it would be a return to days of old when the Dev's told the whiny brats off every once in awhile.
I salute our non-**** taking overlords. Bob is the god of Wormholes.
That's all you need to know. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3819
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:06:00 -
[414] - Quote
Karra Masamune wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice. Why credit them for something they wanted to do in first place? I mean sure it can be inconvenience to make time for something as unexpected as this, but isn't that a part of being CSM in first place? As far as I understand being CSM ins't a privilege where you get cool title on forum, it's extra responsibility where you invest your time to make game better. credit is acknowledgement of work. csm's done exactly as you'd expect from the community group's description... good work is worthy of praise, and good work done for free is worthy of thanks |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
212
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:11:00 -
[415] - Quote
This is nothing more than 'money laundering' for Somerblink, I imagine they are sitting on enormous amounts of ISK through the trillions in transactions they put through there lottery site. For the handful of people to run sommerblink it has to be insane on trying to find things to spend that amount of isk on in eve. Even if the take on the gambling is small, house odds always win and small amounts will add up to huge amounts given time and volume.
If CCP allows this practice to continue, I think they are setting a precedent in saying 'its okay to RMT'. Senex Legio |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:12:00 -
[416] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple. Is this the kind of attitude we can expect from the community manager going forward? Shouldn't the community manager at least to pretend to care about what the community thinks? And I love how you opted to answer this among all the outstanding questions in this thread. You clearly have the communities best in mind. Edit: The back pating post would be ok and well deserved. If there was any actual progress. I hope so - it would be a return to days of old when the Dev's told the whiny brats off every once in awhile. I salute our non-**** taking overlords.
Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4122
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:15:00 -
[417] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. Customers like you probably should. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
iob ccuf azu
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:17:00 -
[418] - Quote
Im mad I dont have a plex selling website
How is it fair he can sell plex but no one else can because they dont have a website?
Maybe CCP can make him give his website to all EVE players then we can all split the profit and share it and slowly get rich together or they should ban him
somethingawful.com 4 life membership x 400 years forever |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
792
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:18:00 -
[419] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. Yeah, sometimes the customer *isn't* right.
Sometimes the customer is a whiny, entitled brat and needs to be told to stfu for awhile. Every once in awhile (as with Dinsdale's whining) it's a good idea to prune the tree of entitlement. Bob is the god of Wormholes.
That's all you need to know. |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:20:00 -
[420] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. Customers like you probably should.
Great input. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 36 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |