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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
7980
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys,
Apologies for the delay in putting out a notification, IGÇÖve just arrived home from the office after a bit of a busy day talking to various departments to get a handle on how and whatGÇÖs been going on with this situation.
This issue was first brought to the attention of the Community Team by the CSM around 24 hours ago after concern was raised by members of the community regarding the promotion thatGÇÖs currently going on over at SOMERblink.
Myself and CCP Leeloo has been sat with various groups within CCP today and have been in constant contact with the CSM throughout the day to discuss the concerns of the community and make sure that some form of resolution is reached. TheyGÇÖve been very clear, direct and unified with their opinion on the situation, and this is a sentiment that I share with them.
This thread will serve as a place where weGÇÖll be updating you guys on whatGÇÖs going on with this to make sure that thereGÇÖs a central place for information, because itGÇÖs quite clear that this is an issue that the community is taking seriously. ItGÇÖs also something I feel incredibly strongly about.
At this point in time, weGÇÖre investigating exactly whatGÇÖs going on with the whole situation, and IGÇÖve been in contact with our Legal department, Sales and our Information Security team with a view to having this looked into and resolved.
Given the sheer size of the investigation that weGÇÖll be undertaking, this is going to take some time, as a lot of ISK and assets have changed hands. While some temporary action has been taken in order to keep a handle on the situation, any outcome of an investigation is still to be determined, and I canGÇÖt give any further information regarding the process while itGÇÖs ongoing.
ThereGÇÖs not a great deal more that IGÇÖll be able to give you guys tonight, but please be aware, and rest assured, that you will not be stonewalled over this, and within reason the Community Team will be letting you guys know exactly whatGÇÖs going on as and when we can release more information.
IGÇÖm hoping to have more on this for you guys tomorrow as we look into this further, but for now, this is just to let you all know that your voices have been heard, weGÇÖre actively looking at the situation, and will feed back as soon as we have more information that we can share.
We'll be locking all the other threads that are discussing this, and diverting them here to keep feedback concise and centralized in one place, so please feel free to use this thread to talk about the issue openly.
Just remember to keep it civil and within the forum rules, which also means no discussion of warnings and bans.
Thanks for your patience,
- F CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
The community team rocks, thanks for all your hard work on this thus far and for the communication you've had with us on all this.
One question I have to ask though, was the community team consulted about this at all ahead of time? |
Ali Aras
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
716
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for the updates-- given the investigation, I assume we can conclude that the reports of this being 100% okay with CCP are greatly exaggerated?
And yeah. For me, at least, I just want the RMT lines to be clear-- I was there for this last year, it was ******, and it seems like it's something nobody wants to see happening again. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
407
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Great post Falcon - just want to echo what Sion said about being open in speaking on the subject with us.
Again though, as Sion suggests, your post hints that this may have not been an equilateral decision within the company. Is it worth making this more clear in your post or did Community have any wind of this situation before 48 hours ago? www.crossingzebras.com |
DJ FunkyBacon
Eve Radio Corporation
314
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
reserved CSM9 Factional Warfare/Lowsec Representative Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado. http://funkybacon.blogspot.com http://twitter.com/FunkyBacon |
Sugar Kyle
Snuff Box
649
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo have been very open to our questions and the questions that we have brought forward from the community starting from last night.
I've recently been asked about accounts used for businesses and what account usage qualifies as a business reference this part of the EULA:
Quote:"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited." Low Sec Lifestyle - A Blog |
DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
190
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
TY Live on Eve Radio Sundays 18:00 GMT with me & friends blabbering on about Eve and stuff-áFollow me on twitter http://twitter.com/WigglesGRN, like me on facebook http://facebook.com/wigglesGRN Or check the show page http://show.gamingradio.net
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Nadine Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74632
Quote:Any involvement in RMT is a permanent ban on first offense
With this already being the second I'd think there is little to discuss in terms of consequences? |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3422
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Good to see some action.
The less RMT, the better. Can't stamp it out completely, but you can try.
Either this was a GM error (someone gave SOMER permission to do this and should not have) in which case a firm announcement of an 'Oops, this isn't happening again' is sufficient, or it was blatant RMT. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
88
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thank you for the update and the time and effort I'm sure you're all putting into this. |
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Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
892
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Same old ****
Concord Approved Trader |
Rainbow Dash
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
144
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hopefully somer gets more than a slap on the wrist and some ship skins this time. |
Guillane Itaril
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
91
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
All I want to say is sorry for making the original thread on reddit at an unfortunate timezone :) Thanks for reacting so quickly! |
Psianh Auvyander
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
86
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 23:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
I want to give a big thanks for the CSM for being so on the ball for this. There were something like four blogs from various CSM members on this subject and they all tackled it with professionalism and concern, which I'm sure helped drive the point home to CCP.
CCP, I hope that if you find people in violation of RMT schemes that you'll punish them to the full extent of your limits. This is a very serious infraction and I hope that no one will be shown to be even partially exempt from the rules. Mercenary Blog @wsethbrown |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
469
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Great to see this thread at last!
+rep and awaiting more info when you can guys
<3 |
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CCP Falcon
7988
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Great to see this thread at last!
+rep and awaiting more info when you can guys
<3
I'd like to sleep first, then I'll be back on this first thing in the morning.
<3
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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Sugar Kyle
Snuff Box
650
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Great to see this thread at last!
+rep and awaiting more info when you can guys
<3 I'd like to sleep first, then I'll be back on this first thing in the morning. <3
When we contacted CCP it was about 2am their time and we got immediate responses from CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo. CCP Falcon is now going to bed 22 hours later. I toss that out there for the people who will wonder why questions will not be answered until tomorrow. Low Sec Lifestyle - A Blog |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
265
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
265
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Great to see this thread at last!
+rep and awaiting more info when you can guys
<3 I'd like to sleep first, then I'll be back on this first thing in the morning. <3 [img]http://37.media.tumblr.com/2f735ec3025eb1cc8bb4fe5f6c192098/tumblr_n9wcu3Eciu1t98kwro1_500.gif[/img]
YOU CAN LINK IMAGES NOW? |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
707
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Psianh Auvyander wrote:I want to give a big thanks for the CSM for being so on the ball for this.
CSM was supposedly passionate about getting this resolved with CCP when they first started this latest session. Appears more like they were run over by the ball.
Thanks CCP for not taking care of this last fall. Perfect timing for the confidence booster we needed now.
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
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Marsha Mallow
1444
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Thanks for the update, and for taking this seriously. GJ to our unpaid CSM minions for their quick response, and for whatever time they gave up to deal with this.
Please clarify the affiliate system and the the terms for EULA compliant RMT asap. So we can all do it \o/ DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
Major JSilva
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
254
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. Twitter: @Silva117 |
Cherry Yeyo
53
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. Its just that the entire community is extremely tired of these same shenanigans from this one group over and over CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15704
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
speak for yourself. i'm unmoved by any of this President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3422
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Great to see this thread at last!
+rep and awaiting more info when you can guys
<3 I'd like to sleep first, then I'll be back on this first thing in the morning. <3 [img]http://37.media.tumblr.com/2f735ec3025eb1cc8bb4fe5f6c192098/tumblr_n9wcu3Eciu1t98kwro1_500.gif[/img]
Your catlet looks tasty. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2862
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
I would just like to add my appreciation to the general tumult of the thread.
CCP FALCON best FALCON. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Destiny Calling
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
35
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
had to lol at this
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ProclarushTaonas
FW University
0
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Oh, this should be fun.
"Somerset Mahm investigated for RMT. CCP gives them a few more shiny rattlesnakes just to appease the crowds" |
Rennseslear X
The 3 Roids Enterprises The 3 Roids Enterprises Alliance
38
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
SOMERBlink...pillar of the community. What a load of horsesh!t. nice job stopping this from ever happening again CCP. damage control, damage control saw this coming the last time they thumbed their noses at you, and you rewarded them with free rare ships. gee gee EWE OAR SOFA KING WE TALL DID |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4738
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Is there a reason you have not asked Somerblink to stop offering their bonus while this is being looked into? Or have you asked them and they have declined? CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Rattman
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
25
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
So much sucking up in one thread.
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Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
104
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
First off. Thank you to the CSM and CCP for a quick response to this.
I think the quote below needs to be clarified by CCP.
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
And if it means some long standing and/or popular institutions go away then so be it. Specifically "and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities." Define income. In game? OUt of game real life?
IMO this is where things start to get murky. A Photoshop wizard creating a piece of art in exchange for isk for someone to use on their blog header, killboard, or other site intended to display information about Eve isn't a problem. When people expressly create a website to purposely make real life money and circle jerk it in a roundabout way involving in game currency and/or assets it's stepping over the line. To be endorsed by CCP is ridiculous.
It's been 10 yrs plus. Do you not know your player base yet, CCP? It's time to define this kind of crap. If certain sites disappear, then so be it. This kind of crap always surfaces when null suck takes a dive and there's no new player acquiring battles, etc... happening to attract newbies. This stuff makes headlines and headlines draw people to Eve. But this kind of nonsense is beneath what I would consider CCP to be, which is a professional game creating company. Sew up these stinking loopholes so scum bags stop ripping people off in game with what is classified a real life addiction, gambling, only to make real life income for their own lazy asses. There is nothing legitimate here. If Somer wants to sell Plex then let them become an authorized Plex seller like Eve Radio, Eve Game TIme Codes, etc... Otherwise, this smells like a modern day T20 scandal all over again. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5811
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason.
If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3423
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen
Read up more on Somer's setup.
There's no question that this is RMT ISK selling in disguise.
Which is very different to the (officially tolerated) RMT ISK buying in disguise cycle seen in killboard hostings of "I create EVE-based RL services, possibly costing RL money and trade them to you for in-game ISK".
CCP's stated policies are very different toward RMT sellers and RMT buyers. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15705
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
do your part and shoot the jita monument. chainkilling Incursion MOMs is reserved. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
606
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Posted - 2014.08.19 01:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Two step wrote:Is there a reason you have not asked Somerblink to stop offering their bonus while this is being looked into? Or have you asked them and they have declined?
I hate to do this cause I still owe him a beer and he hates me . But this is something that has to happen. That will make this delay on a answer, put an end to the trolling.
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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
851
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Posted - 2014.08.19 01:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys,
Apologies for the delay in putting out a notification, IGÇÖve just arrived home from the office after a bit of a busy day talking to various departments to get a handle on how and whatGÇÖs been going on with this situation.
This issue was first brought to the attention of the Community Team by the CSM around 24 hours ago after concern was raised by members of the community regarding the promotion thatGÇÖs currently going on over at SOMERblink.
Myself and CCP Leeloo has been sat with various groups within CCP today and have been in constant contact with the CSM throughout the day to discuss the concerns of the community and make sure that some form of resolution is reached. TheyGÇÖve been very clear, direct and unified with their opinion on the situation, and this is a sentiment that I share with them.
This thread will serve as a place where weGÇÖll be updating you guys on whatGÇÖs going on with this to make sure that thereGÇÖs a central place for information, because itGÇÖs quite clear that this is an issue that the community is taking seriously. ItGÇÖs also something I feel incredibly strongly about.
At this point in time, weGÇÖre investigating exactly whatGÇÖs going on with the whole situation, and IGÇÖve been in contact with our Legal department, Sales and our Information Security team with a view to having this looked into and resolved.
Given the sheer size of the investigation that weGÇÖll be undertaking, this is going to take some time, as a lot of ISK and assets have changed hands. While some temporary action has been taken in order to keep a handle on the situation, any outcome of an investigation is still to be determined, and I canGÇÖt give any further information regarding the process while itGÇÖs ongoing.
ThereGÇÖs not a great deal more that IGÇÖll be able to give you guys tonight, but please be aware, and rest assured, that you will not be stonewalled over this, and within reason the Community Team will be letting you guys know exactly whatGÇÖs going on as and when we can release more information.
IGÇÖm hoping to have more on this for you guys tomorrow as we look into this further, but for now, this is just to let you all know that your voices have been heard, weGÇÖre actively looking at the situation, and will feed back as soon as we have more information that we can share.
We'll be locking all the other threads that are discussing this, and diverting them here to keep feedback concise and centralized in one place, so please feel free to use this thread to talk about the issue openly.
Just remember to keep it civil and within the forum rules, which also means no discussion of warnings and bans.
Thanks for your patience,
- F
Holy crap, I don't think I've ever seen you make a post this vague. Investigation, right, okay. But there's one simple question I think everyone here would like to have an answer on which you should (??) have ready since it's a simple shout around the office me thinks.
Did CCP or did CCP not give SOMER permission to start this incentive bullshit up again? Just a yes or no answer to that question would please (or not ) a great deal of people. What happens with an investigation is fun reading material for a later date. Though if you guys are really going to dig into this, I have a perfectly good idea where you'll eventually trace all the money to *coughmarkeedragoncough!*
And I'm sure you guys realize this, but coming out and saying 'we are re-allowing this now' officially is going to cause a shitstorm the size of which you have not seen... in the past week. Better reinforce that Jita monument if that's the case. But I trust you to make the right decision. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.08.19 01:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen
which kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets will give me isk in game in exchange for buying a plex through them? |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
411
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Posted - 2014.08.19 01:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility.
I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far. www.crossingzebras.com |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4210
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far.
This. I don't care one way or the other about Somer Blink, and if they are found to be in breach of the EULA on something, anything, be it RMT or otherwise, then I stand firmly behind the appropriate measures of dealing with that breach. What I am not behind is a verdict without a 'trial'. People jumping on the "Grr Somer" bandwagon are not helping the process. Because if they are not found to be in breach of the EULA then the "Grr Somer" crowd, already emotionally invested in seeing Somer taken down, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong, are going to be disappointed. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
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Grainsalt
6-10s Northern Associates.
204
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Posted - 2014.08.19 01:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
The only question that needs an immediate answer is, did CCP give SOMER permission to run this promo as SOMER advertised? I think we will find Jimmy Hoffa's body before we get an answer. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4210
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tam Arai wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen which kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets will give me isk in game in exchange for buying a plex through them?
I'm not seeing the problem, or the 'RMT' in this aside from the 'RMT' that takes place daily every time someone buys PLEX for real money and sells it for isk, regardless of the vendor. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
265
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far. This. I don't care one way or the other about Somer Blink, and if they are found to be in breach of the EULA on something, anything, be it RMT or otherwise, then I stand firmly behind the appropriate measures of dealing with that breach. What I am not behind is a verdict without a 'trial'. People jumping on the "Grr Somer" bandwagon are not helping the process. Because if they are not found to be in breach of the EULA then the "Grr Somer" crowd, already emotionally invested in seeing Somer taken down, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong, are going to be disappointed.
So I just want to make my position clear: If the investigation is on-going, it's fine and understandable. Action against people will result in problems, like the media releasing the name of the Sandy Hook shooter's brother and blaming him.
What I refer to is that after investigations like this is over, CCP ends up stating "Actions have been taken". I want to know what actions have been taken, what will be change, and who was the player who is being involved due to his/her actions going against the EULA.
I don't know, maybe I just like having and am use to having access to this type of data publicly in real life. |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo have been very open to our questions and the questions that we have brought forward from the community starting from last night. I've recently been asked about accounts used for businesses and what account usage qualifies as a business reference this part of the EULA: Quote:"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
Does this mean guys like TheMittani are in trouble too? That guy pays his freelance writers in isk and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. |
Xeleonn
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Grainsalt wrote:The only question that needs an immediate answer is, did CCP give SOMER permission to run this promo as SOMER advertised? I think we will find Jimmy Hoffa's body before we get an answer.
The blink GTC page has been updated with a link to text file of emails between Somer and CCP http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt Which seems to show that approval was given by at least someone at CCP. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11113
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:That guy pays his freelance writers in isk Which is allowed
Ohkewl wrote:and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3810
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
csm are great, appreciations |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23950
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:Major JSilva wrote:Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far. This. I don't care one way or the other about Somer Blink, and if they are found to be in breach of the EULA on something, anything, be it RMT or otherwise, then I stand firmly behind the appropriate measures of dealing with that breach. What I am not behind is a verdict without a 'trial'. People jumping on the "Grr Somer" bandwagon are not helping the process. Because if they are not found to be in breach of the EULA then the "Grr Somer" crowd, already emotionally invested in seeing Somer taken down, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong, are going to be disappointed. Those.
Very nice to see that something is underway. It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds over the coming days. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11113
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:49:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. And here come the posts of the critical thought deficient. TMC has run two articles on the Somer Blink scandal, both written by Goons, one of whom is a director and also a sitting member of the CSM. Mittens himself made reference to it in his latest Mitten's Mailbox piece.
Mr Epeen wrote:If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT Nobody is arguing that any income is RMT. They're arguing that this specific scheme is RMT because it boils down to the same thing - they get money, in exchange for giving you isk.
Mr Epeen wrote:say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Which has absolutely nothing to do with this.
Mr Epeen wrote:Mr Epeen I'm beginning to wonder if you're too dumb to find your own posts unless you sign them. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:56:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen Read up more on Somer's setup. There's no question that this is RMT ISK selling in disguise. Which is very different to the (officially tolerated) RMT ISK buying in disguise cycle seen in killboard hostings of "I create EVE-based RL services, possibly costing RL money and trade them to you for in-game ISK". CCP's stated policies are very different toward RMT sellers and RMT buyers.
|
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11115
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
And to all of you saying that "if CCP says it's okay, then it's fine with me" I don't think you realize just how badly this can be gamed.
Luckily the CFC will be more than happy to show you, if it comes to that. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
147
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:When we contacted CCP it was about 2am their time and we got immediate responses from CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo. CCP Falcon is now going to bed 22 hours later. I toss that out there for the people who will wonder why questions will not be answered until tomorrow. This is why, of all games I have ever played, I continue to play EVE Online. Greatest community support on the planet. Sitting on the edge of my seat to see what happens! TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items |
Killdeer Okel
Red Ochre Mining and Exploration Fatal Ascension
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
He has currently suspended the program due to contact with CCP.
https://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc
He linked his proposal as well: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf
Interesting to not the following statements from it:
"Blink will buy the PLEX from you at a published rate that is the same for all ETC buyers"
"Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link."
"We publish a price available to anyone: "Blink will buy your PLEX for ____ ISK!" "
A legal department should have caught the obfuscation with the wording. Obviously whoever approved it did not. |
TheMasterSenor
Modulated Dreams Circle-Of-Two
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
Nadine Jones wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74632 Quote:Any involvement in RMT is a permanent ban on first offense With this already being the second I'd think there is little to discuss in terms of consequences?
+1 |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
690
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Killdeer Okel wrote:He has currently suspended the program due to contact with CCP. https://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtcHe linked his proposal as well: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtfInteresting to not the following statements from it: "Blink will buy the PLEX from you at a published rate that is the same for all ETC buyers" "Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link." "We publish a price available to anyone: "Blink will buy your PLEX for ____ ISK!" " A legal department should have caught the obfuscation with the wording. Obviously whoever approved it did not. man how did they not catch that |
Marsan
246
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far.
Yea I'm gonna call B$ on the idea of CCP and any sort of transparency. They are are in CYA mode. Sure they are "investigating the issue", but also they are hoping to do the following:
1) Tell us don't worry we are doing a through investigation.
2) Look into it.
3) Figure out how to spin this in the best light.
We aren't ever going to get significant details just a spoon-fed sanitized version of events.
PS- Also "they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it". How is that transparent? You guys are under an NDA which by NDA I'm not ever allowed to see.
PPS- That said I'm still not entirely sure why people are surprised, and so upset. Personally I'd rather have Somer doing RMT than the average isk for $$$ site. As long as there are people with a lot isk there are going to be people who will want to convert it to cash.... Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
690
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
the last line of the proposal gives away what hes planning too, that he'll overpay
the no bonus clause is intended to snooker the reader into not noticing its limited to only not paying directly for the buy, so you wont notice you agreed to let him overpay for the plex itself
clever but obviously intended to deceive whoever signed off on it |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11118
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:the last line of the proposal gives away what hes planning too, that he'll overpay
the no bonus clause is intended to snooker the reader into not noticing its limited to only not paying directly for the buy, so you wont notice you agreed to let him overpay for the plex itself
clever but obviously intended to deceive whoever signed off on it This is looking even more sinister by the minute. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Xeleonn
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
I don't think there's any deception here, The first step of the Workflow contains the message that they intended to use on the service, stating that they intend to give 'the best' price.
'1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"'
Edit: After thinking about it, there is enough ambiguity there to cause confusion as to whether they intend to provide 'the best price' inline with current Buy Orders, or Sell orders, or something more. |
Killdeer Okel
Red Ochre Mining and Exploration Fatal Ascension
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
In the end, If this "Lisa" from CCP approved it, which looks possible, then the program will go away, but there will be a slap on the wrist as CCP will need to take the fall for the deception. I guess CCP is no better than a Newbie in Jita. They need more practice watching the scams that are run in the game. |
|
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
690
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
Xeleonn wrote:I don't think there's any deception here, The first step of the Workflow contains the message that they intended to use on the service, stating that they intend to give 'the best' price.
'1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"' they want the reader to believe the point of the program is convenience, when the point is significantly overpaying
its definitely intended to decieve |
Thead Enco
Radio New Vegas
184
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys,
Apologies for the delay in putting out a notification, IGÇÖve just arrived home from the office after a bit of a busy day talking to various departments to get a handle on how and whatGÇÖs been going on with this situation.
This issue was first brought to the attention of the Community Team by the CSM around 24 hours ago after concern was raised by members of the community regarding the promotion thatGÇÖs currently going on over at SOMERblink.
Myself and CCP Leeloo has been sat with various groups within CCP today and have been in constant contact with the CSM throughout the day to discuss the concerns of the community and make sure that some form of resolution is reached. TheyGÇÖve been very clear, direct and unified with their opinion on the situation, and this is a sentiment that I share with them.
This thread will serve as a place where weGÇÖll be updating you guys on whatGÇÖs going on with this to make sure that thereGÇÖs a central place for information, because itGÇÖs quite clear that this is an issue that the community is taking seriously. ItGÇÖs also something I feel incredibly strongly about.
At this point in time, weGÇÖre investigating exactly whatGÇÖs going on with the whole situation, and IGÇÖve been in contact with our Legal department, Sales and our Information Security team with a view to having this looked into and resolved.
Given the sheer size of the investigation that weGÇÖll be undertaking, this is going to take some time, as a lot of ISK and assets have changed hands. While some temporary action has been taken in order to keep a handle on the situation, any outcome of an investigation is still to be determined, and I canGÇÖt give any further information regarding the process while itGÇÖs ongoing.
ThereGÇÖs not a great deal more that IGÇÖll be able to give you guys tonight, but please be aware, and rest assured, that you will not be stonewalled over this, and within reason the Community Team will be letting you guys know exactly whatGÇÖs going on as and when we can release more information.
IGÇÖm hoping to have more on this for you guys tomorrow as we look into this further, but for now, this is just to let you all know that your voices have been heard, weGÇÖre actively looking at the situation, and will feed back as soon as we have more information that we can share.
We'll be locking all the other threads that are discussing this, and diverting them here to keep feedback concise and centralized in one place, so please feel free to use this thread to talk about the issue openly.
Just remember to keep it civil and within the forum rules, which also means no discussion of warnings and bans.
Thanks for your patience,
- F
And in the meantime until we hear back from CCP.............
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4213
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Xeleonn wrote:I don't think there's any deception here, The first step of the Workflow contains the message that they intended to use on the service, stating that they intend to give 'the best' price.
'1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"' they want the reader to believe the point of the program is convenience, when the point is significantly overpaying its definitely intended to decieve
if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
691
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Xeleonn wrote:I don't think there's any deception here, The first step of the Workflow contains the message that they intended to use on the service, stating that they intend to give 'the best' price.
'1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"' they want the reader to believe the point of the program is convenience, when the point is significantly overpaying its definitely intended to decieve if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. i do not see how this mysterious trout in this milk proves anything about it being watered down -remiel pollard |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11121
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. Don't quibble over words, it's unseemly. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
647
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:39:00 -
[66] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Xeleonn wrote:I don't think there's any deception here, The first step of the Workflow contains the message that they intended to use on the service, stating that they intend to give 'the best' price.
'1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"' they want the reader to believe the point of the program is convenience, when the point is significantly overpaying its definitely intended to decieve if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. Comprehension.... perhaps Somer will have a special blink for some of that. Buy a few tickets will ya?
I'm right behind you |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4213
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. Don't quibble over words, it's unseemly.
Quibble?
What he said amounts to, "It's obvious the world was created in six days, just look around you!"
If it's so obvious, then there will be evidence. Is it quibbling to ask for clarification on a claim made without evidence? I think what you're asking me to do is accept the claim and shut up. I won't. It's not definitely intended to deceive until evidence can be provided of said intended deception. Any accusations or 'verdict' made without that evidence is nothing but a witch hunt. If you want to lower yourself to that level, then that's your problem, but don't expect me to follow on your say so. I want the evidence before I accept that any deception was intended, and you can take your childish attempts to belittle the need for that evidence back to a bible study where they belong. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4213
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Xeleonn wrote:I don't think there's any deception here, The first step of the Workflow contains the message that they intended to use on the service, stating that they intend to give 'the best' price.
'1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"' they want the reader to believe the point of the program is convenience, when the point is significantly overpaying its definitely intended to decieve if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. Comprehension.... perhaps Somer will have a special blink for some of that. Buy a few tickets will ya?
I'm comrpehending just fine. I'm seeing a conclusion based on assumed and biased premises, but still no concrete evidence. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
635
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
. They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake. |
Cherry Yeyo
55
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:its definitely intended to decieve Haha so whats the penalty for scamming CCP?
CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11123
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:46:00 -
[71] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. Don't quibble over words, it's unseemly. Quibble? What he said amounts to, "It's obvious the world was created in six days, just look around you!" No, what he said amounts to "notice how this doesn't mention anything about selling way above market price". No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
692
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:50:00 -
[72] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. Don't quibble over words, it's unseemly. Quibble? What he said amounts to, "It's obvious the world was created in six days, just look around you!" If it's so obvious, then there will be evidence. Is it quibbling to ask for clarification on a claim made without evidence? I think what you're asking me to do is accept the claim and shut up. I won't. It's not definitely intended to deceive until evidence can be provided of said intended deception. Any accusations or 'verdict' made without that evidence is nothing but a witch hunt. If you want to lower yourself to that level, then that's your problem, but don't expect me to follow on your say so. I want the evidence before I accept that any deception was intended or even made, and you can take your childish attempts to belittle the need for that evidence back to a bible study where they belong.
what evidence, besides the fifteen stab wounds in the back, do we have that someone intentionally stabbed this person? perhaps we ought not leap to conclusions because we do not understand what the concept of evidence is |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4213
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. Don't quibble over words, it's unseemly. Quibble? What he said amounts to, "It's obvious the world was created in six days, just look around you!" No, what he said amounts to "notice how this doesn't mention anything about selling way above market price".
I have a bottle of shampoo in my hands. Nowhere on the label does it mention anything about cleaning my hair. It just says "shampoo" with a few ingredients and sales points based around them. I guess it's all intended to deceive, and by virtue of that, it probably won't wash my hair. Am I right?
So, who's really 'quibbling' with words? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4213
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. Don't quibble over words, it's unseemly. Quibble? What he said amounts to, "It's obvious the world was created in six days, just look around you!" If it's so obvious, then there will be evidence. Is it quibbling to ask for clarification on a claim made without evidence? I think what you're asking me to do is accept the claim and shut up. I won't. It's not definitely intended to deceive until evidence can be provided of said intended deception. Any accusations or 'verdict' made without that evidence is nothing but a witch hunt. If you want to lower yourself to that level, then that's your problem, but don't expect me to follow on your say so. I want the evidence before I accept that any deception was intended or even made, and you can take your childish attempts to belittle the need for that evidence back to a bible study where they belong. what evidence, besides the fifteen stab wounds in the back, do we have that someone intentionally stabbed this person? perhaps we ought not leap to conclusions because we do not understand what the concept of evidence is
Oh aren't you just precious with the bad analogies. There is a difference between making educated assumptions based on facts, and assumptions based on assumed premises. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
692
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: No, what he said amounts to "notice how this doesn't mention anything about selling way above market price".
not just doesn't mention, but carefully leaves it open while carefully implying it won't happen and implying the real value is you can sell anywhere |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11123
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:54:00 -
[76] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:if it's 'definitely' intended to deceive, then you shouldn't have any trouble providing evidence of how definite it is. Surely you have such evidence if things are so definite for you. Don't quibble over words, it's unseemly. Quibble? What he said amounts to, "It's obvious the world was created in six days, just look around you!" No, what he said amounts to "notice how this doesn't mention anything about selling way above market price". I have a bottle of shampoo in my hands. Nowhere on the label does it mention anything about cleaning my hair. It just says "shampoo" with a few ingredients and sales points based around them, and some instructions on how to use it, but no explicit claim that it's gonna clean my hair. I guess it's all intended to deceive, and by virtue of that, it probably won't wash my hair. Am I right? So, who's really 'quibbling' with words? Still you. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11123
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Oh aren't you just precious with the bad analogies. Can I clean my hair with those? No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4214
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Still you.
Next time, say that with more foot stomping, the tantrum might have more of an effect that way. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11123
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:58:00 -
[79] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Still you.
Next time, say that with more foot stomping, the tantrum might have more of an effect that way. Did you know that words and analogies lose their effect when you use them in situations where they don't apply? No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4214
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:58:00 -
[80] - Quote
If Somer are in the wrong, then I agree they should face the appropriate measures for bad behaviour. However, when I look down a street and see a swathe of pitchforks and torches, I only hope that whoever pissed them off gets away with it, regardless of what they've done, because that mindless crowd gives humanity a worse name than the perpetrator they are after. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
|
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
692
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:00:00 -
[81] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Still you.
Next time, say that with more foot stomping, the tantrum might have more of an effect that way.
the basic problem is you're simply not smart enough to participate in this discussion which is why you're only getting dismissive analogies that make clear to all readers why you're wrong (though probably not you, through no fault of the analogy)
any thinking person can realize how you can determine intent through actions (it is indeed the only way to determine intent): by looking at what somer wrote and seeing how carefully it implied X while not saying X and carefully making sure you could do the exact opposite of X, anyone who can reason from actions can see that's intentional
everyone who reads that the first time sees what somer wanted people to see and it's only once you read carefully (or know what somer was doing) you see the clauses that basically reverse the intent of the whole thing
you don't do that by accident, but unfortunately i regret this probably is a little advanced so i hope you have a good night and are a little sharper in the morning |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4214
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:00:00 -
[82] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Still you.
Next time, say that with more foot stomping, the tantrum might have more of an effect that way. Did you know that words and analogies lose their effect when you use them in situations where they don't apply?
Denial doesn't remove their meaning, but acceptance will lead to you becoming a better person. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11123
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:00:00 -
[83] - Quote
This is like putting together a puzzle which was put into the wrong box, and Remiel here is arguing that until we put every piece of the puzzle together we can't conclude that the puzzle isn't the same as the picture on the box. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
692
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:02:00 -
[84] - Quote
that every puzzle piece is yellow or neon pink is no evidence that this is not the puzzle of saint peter's basilica i purchased
where is the evidence, people |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10911
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:02:00 -
[85] - Quote
Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.
[...]
1. 1.Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"
[...]
GÇóPlayers who want more ISK value from their PLEX than they could get selling it by themselves will be encouraged to spend money on PLEX, since they are guaranteed the best price in the Eve universe
if you cannot see how this ambiguous wording was clearly intended to deceive the reader I have no words Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
S'Way
Bitter Vets
849
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:02:00 -
[86] - Quote
A game only holds it's integrity if all are playing by the same rules - whatever the result is of any investigation there needs to be no doubt that everyone is doing so.
Given previous incidents (which don't need to be mentioned), I hope there's as much transparancy as possible once the investigation is over so players can have confidence in it.
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4214
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:02:00 -
[87] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Still you.
Next time, say that with more foot stomping, the tantrum might have more of an effect that way. the basic problem is you're simply not smart enough to participate in this discussion which is why you're only getting dismissive analogies that make clear to all readers why you're wrong (though probably not you, through no fault of the analogy) any thinking person can realize how you can determine intent through actions (it is indeed the only way to determine intent): by looking at what somer wrote and seeing how carefully it implied X while not saying X and carefully making sure you could do the exact opposite of X, anyone who can reason from actions can see that's intentional everyone who reads that the first time sees what somer wanted people to see and it's only once you read carefully (or know what somer was doing) you see the clauses that basically reverse the intent of the whole thing you don't do that by accident, but unfortunately i regret this probably is a little advanced so i hope you have a good night and are a little sharper in the morning
Your implied insult of my intellect is noted and dismissed on account of your habit of making biased assumptions without knowing a damn about the subject of them. In other words, pot, meet kettle. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4214
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:04:00 -
[88] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:This is like putting together a puzzle which was put into the wrong box, and Remiel here is arguing that until we put every piece of the puzzle together we can't conclude that the puzzle isn't the same as the picture on the box.
Let's keep it simple, shall we? I'm arguing against making assumptions and jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions. That's all. If you don't like that, then you probably won't like the outcome anyway, regardless of what it may be. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11124
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
Andski wrote:Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.
[...]
1. 1.Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"
[...]
GÇóPlayers who want more ISK value from their PLEX than they could get selling it by themselves will be encouraged to spend money on PLEX, since they are guaranteed the best price in the Eve universe if you cannot see how this ambiguous wording was clearly intended to deceive the reader I have no words Actually that first bolded part would seem to be a flat out lie. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11124
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:07:00 -
[90] - Quote
Unsubstantiated. Huh. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
|
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
1562
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:07:00 -
[91] - Quote
So when can I start my own ISK bonus for PLEX referral business?
I'll keep it very clean and simple, no fluff like betting schemes or anything. Nyan |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:That guy pays his freelance writers in isk Which is allowedOhkewl wrote:and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd.
So all Somer has to do is: 1. everyone buying plex through their site also needs to write an article (lets say min 3 max 20 words) 2. Somer buys these articles for isk and puts them on a websit 3. Markeedragon has a banner on the site and pays Somer for the advertising.
There you go, a legitemate newsite.
|
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
693
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:14:00 -
[93] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Andski wrote:Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.
[...]
1. 1.Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"
[...]
GÇóPlayers who want more ISK value from their PLEX than they could get selling it by themselves will be encouraged to spend money on PLEX, since they are guaranteed the best price in the Eve universe if you cannot see how this ambiguous wording was clearly intended to deceive the reader I have no words Actually that first bolded part would seem to be a flat out lie. you don't get extra isk for buying through the link
you get extra isk through the separate sale back to somer, which is something different under the structure he set up
i think you can make a good argument he got too clever for himself here and that the top line actually controls throughout and that he didn't succeed in getting ccp sanction for his latest rmt scheme, but he's definitely trying and whoever signed off on it definitely didn't read it closely |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10911
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:14:00 -
[94] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:So all Somer has to do is: 1. everyone buying plex through their site also needs to write an article (lets say min 3 max 20 words) 2. Somer buys these articles for isk and puts them on a websit 3. Markeedragon has a banner on the site and pays Somer for the advertising.
There you go, a legitemate newsite.
except that's not what TMC or other news sites do at all
keep grinding that axe though Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5820
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:14:00 -
[95] - Quote
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:So when can I start my own ISK bonus for PLEX referral business?
Why stop with an ISK incentive?
You could always give a discount for bulk purchases or one of the other incentives that are common with the resellers. This Somer hate is going to (has) open a can of worms. I look forward to seeing how the 3rd party landscape looks when the dust settles.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Cherry Yeyo
55
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:15:00 -
[96] - Quote
Killdeer Okel wrote:In the end, If this "Lisa" from CCP approved it, which looks possible, then the program will go away, but there will be a slap on the wrist as CCP will need to take the fall for the deception. I guess CCP is no better than a Newbie in Jita. They need more practice watching the scams that are run in the game. The real question is: why is Somer emailing "Lisa" who is clearly a sales executive about this, and not a Senior GM or something.. CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
490
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:20:00 -
[97] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:If Somer are in the wrong, then I agree they should face the appropriate measures for bad behaviour. However, when I look down a street and see a swathe of pitchforks and torches, I only hope that whoever pissed them off gets away with it, regardless of what they've done, because that mindless crowd gives humanity a worse name than the perpetrator they are after.
You are edgy and cool and we would all be very happy if you stopped posting. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10911
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:20:00 -
[98] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:The real question is: why is Somer emailing "Lisa" who is clearly a sales executive about this, and not a Senior GM or something..
Lisa is with CCP legal, not with sales Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:24:00 -
[99] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:Killdeer Okel wrote:In the end, If this "Lisa" from CCP approved it, which looks possible, then the program will go away, but there will be a slap on the wrist as CCP will need to take the fall for the deception. I guess CCP is no better than a Newbie in Jita. They need more practice watching the scams that are run in the game. The real question is: why is Somer emailing "Lisa" who is clearly a sales executive about this, and not a Senior GM or something..
Through the magic of "Google" (some arcane thing I know very little the purpose of)
She is the Senior VP of Global Sales for CCP Games.
http://schedule2013.gdconf.com/session-id/824110
Andski wrote:Cherry Yeyo wrote:The real question is: why is Somer emailing "Lisa" who is clearly a sales executive about this, and not a Senior GM or something.. Lisa is with CCP legal, not with sales
GDC would disagree mon ami. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1474
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:26:00 -
[100] - Quote
I note how the 'E-mail permission' doesn't have the actual exact details of the permission in it, and how we have no evidence that even the proposal he published was the actual one in discussion in the E-mail. Especially since the E-mails talk about a May proposal and it would be..... August. Smoking gun? |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11128
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:28:00 -
[101] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:This Somer hate is going to (has) open a can of worms. I look forward to seeing how the 3rd party landscape looks when the dust settles. Mr Epeen Typical of your fashion, you keep repeating things hoping they'll come true when everyone knows they won't. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5821
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:29:00 -
[102] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:I note how the 'E-mail permission' doesn't have the actual exact details of the permission in it, and how we have no evidence that even the proposal he published was the actual one in discussion in the E-mail. Especially since the E-mails talk about a May proposal and it would be..... August. Smoking gun?
Oh...you're good.
Tell me. Do you work at infowars.com in real life? Alex must love you.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Cherry Yeyo
55
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:I note how the 'E-mail permission' doesn't have the actual exact details of the permission in it, and how we have no evidence that even the proposal he published was the actual one in discussion in the E-mail. Especially since the E-mails talk about a May proposal and it would be..... August. Smoking gun? Well clearly Somer is palsy with Lisa "Enjoying the rain today? ;)" and kept that email in case anyone notices anything fishy about their current promotion which they did. CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:35:00 -
[104] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Andski wrote:Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.
[...]
1. 1.Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"
[...]
GÇóPlayers who want more ISK value from their PLEX than they could get selling it by themselves will be encouraged to spend money on PLEX, since they are guaranteed the best price in the Eve universe if you cannot see how this ambiguous wording was clearly intended to deceive the reader I have no words Actually that first bolded part would seem to be a flat out lie.
Exactly. The bolded sentence is possibly why permission was given to run the scheme.
But the scheme that they are running is not the one mentioned in this email. They are providing extra isk when you resell the plex back to them. |
Qalix
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
304
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:39:00 -
[105] - Quote
Blah, blah, blah. Same as last year. An "investigation" that will "take a while" and then... nothing.
Squeeze out those last dollars while you can. |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:42:00 -
[106] - Quote
S'Way wrote:A game only holds it's integrity if all are playing by the same rules - whatever the result is of any investigation there needs to be no doubt that everyone is doing so.
Given previous incidents (which don't need to be mentioned), I hope there's as much transparancy as possible once the investigation is over so players can have confidence in it.
Exactly, so get rid of all the third party plex sellers, and get rid of all the ppl selling services for isk. |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:48:00 -
[107] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ohkewl wrote:So all Somer has to do is: 1. everyone buying plex through their site also needs to write an article (lets say min 3 max 20 words) 2. Somer buys these articles for isk and puts them on a websit 3. Markeedragon has a banner on the site and pays Somer for the advertising.
There you go, a legitemate newsite.
except that's not what TMC or other news sites do at all on the other hand, if TMC offered you ISK for buying yourself a game through their amazon affiliate program, that would most certainly be clear-cut RMT
Minus the plex buying, it is what they do, buy articles for isk, get money from adds. TMC or Evenews24 doesnt buy just any article from anyone either. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3395
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:50:00 -
[108] - Quote
Qalix wrote:Blah, blah, blah. Same as last year. An "investigation" that will "take a while" and then... nothing.
Squeeze out those last dollars while you can.
This could have been dealt with in about an hour today. Hilmar, or some other delegate of CCP, types a statement in this thread stating that CCP has zero-tolerance for RMT, and any scheme to circumvent the EUALA and TOS will not be tolerated. THEN he can make the comment that CCP is dealing with their lawyers about this.
End of story. People would then know that they are coming down like an anvil on Somer-Blink. And if they did not hammer Somer, there will be zero ambiguity in the fact that CCP would then NOT consider this RMT and the floodgates are open for the cartels to do this, as well as anyone else with a ton of ISK, a web page and a affiliation with a plex seller. |
Cherry Yeyo
55
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:51:00 -
[109] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:S'Way wrote:A game only holds it's integrity if all are playing by the same rules - whatever the result is of any investigation there needs to be no doubt that everyone is doing so.
Given previous incidents (which don't need to be mentioned), I hope there's as much transparancy as possible once the investigation is over so players can have confidence in it.
Exactly, so get rid of all the third party plex sellers, and get rid of all the ppl selling services for isk. You dont need to do any of that, you just cant offer a "bonus" or in game incentive to buy plex from you vs. anyone else. They established that last year.
CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
537
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:52:00 -
[110] - Quote
Xeleonn wrote:Grainsalt wrote:The only question that needs an immediate answer is, did CCP give SOMER permission to run this promo as SOMER advertised? I think we will find Jimmy Hoffa's body before we get an answer. The blink GTC page has been updated with a link to text file of emails between Somer and CCP http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt Which seems to show that approval was given by at least someone at CCP.
Those are pretty damning... of course if Somer was smart, he actually got that signed letter of understanding from CCP Legal.
In which case the situation gets Really Really Complicated.
|
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1475
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 04:57:00 -
[111] - Quote
Qalix wrote:Blah, blah, blah. Same as last year. An "investigation" that will "take a while" and then... nothing.
Squeeze out those last dollars while you can. Last year was actually quite different. There were two separate issues, or three really. Firstly, there was Somer manipulating IWS prices, which were given out to about six different community groups, not just Somer. And was just a straight up market manipulation. Shady given it was a community reward, but no worse than anything the Goons have done with their Ice interdictions to give another market manipulation example.
Secondly there was the ships they were given to raffle out, poor choice by CCP, which people complained would devalue the Golden Magnate, so CCP changed them for a totally new ship.
Finally there was the 'RMT scandal'.... except there never was one. There was a change in CCP's policies on third party sellers, of which nearly all were using the same incentive scheme as Somer was. The reason Somer came up was because when the 'cease & desist' was issued as a policy change by CCP, the other schemes all changed asap, while Somer actually increased their scheme running right up until the cut off date with it.
So last year was not a question of actual RMT since the schemes till that time had CCP's approval for 'everyone' to use, not just Somer. Nor was it a question of contract fraud or anything of the sort. This year there are those real questions.
So, very different case. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10911
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 05:09:00 -
[112] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Minus the plex buying, it is what they do, buy articles for isk, get money from adds. TMC or Evenews24 doesnt buy just any article from anyone either. except for the articles that they don't pay ISK for (every article not related to EVE, articles written by writers who don't want ISK compensation or don't have EVE accounts)
they also don't buy just any article from anyone either because, well, they don't want crappy articles from illiterates Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4244
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 05:12:00 -
[113] - Quote
First Chribba's unusally sharp jab at CCP. Then Goons and Dinsdale in agreement in the same thread. The ****'s happenning in here?! |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
271
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 05:15:00 -
[114] - Quote
Really felt sick seeing this come up again not even a year after the first time. How I remember it, what Somer was doing was pretty heavy *redacted* and it was even more so obvious when they did their '1bil credit' cashout week. Seemed like that was a slap in CCP's face after essentially being slapped on the wrist for what would get other people banned (if you consider giving them free unique 1tril ISK ships to be a slap on the wrist) and now this... it's staggeringly disrespectful to both CCP and the Eve community as a whole. This time there shouldn't be second chances, slaps on the wrist, and consolation prizes... if found to be *redacted* they should be dealt with as any other player would. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 05:20:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Andski wrote:Ohkewl wrote:So all Somer has to do is: 1. everyone buying plex through their site also needs to write an article (lets say min 3 max 20 words) 2. Somer buys these articles for isk and puts them on a websit 3. Markeedragon has a banner on the site and pays Somer for the advertising.
There you go, a legitemate newsite.
except that's not what TMC or other news sites do at all on the other hand, if TMC offered you ISK for buying yourself a game through their amazon affiliate program, that would most certainly be clear-cut RMT Minus the plex buying, it is what they do, buy articles for isk, get money from adds. TMC or Evenews24 doesnt buy just any article from anyone either.
As a former writer for TMC, that's not how they behave/operate at all. They pay the writer for EVE "Universe" articles (EVE Online, DUST 514, EVE Valkyrie etc.) which includes videos and streaming. They don't just pay a writer for a non-EVE article with in-game money. Any coverage not pertaining to EVE is compensated in a different fashion and has no ISK or PLEX or GTC involved whatsoever. As for "doesnt buy just any article from anyone either" that's due to, in TMC's case, quality control and preference for not having poorly written and grammatically incorrect pieces thrown out there. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
101
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 05:20:00 -
[116] - Quote
too big to fail
or get banned |
Anya Klibor
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
763
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 05:36:00 -
[117] - Quote
I won't hold my breath; the last thread about SOMERBlink's obvious RMT actions spiraled out o control because CCP didn't take it seriously. We were told we'd be updated regularly, and weeks after we were told a statement was coming out the thread was unstickied and no one gave a damn.
Expecting another slap on the wrist for SOMER, because you never listen to us anyways. |
Anya Klibor
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
763
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 05:49:00 -
[118] - Quote
Also, funny ot see that the first five replies are CSM members, all with-in the span of thirteen minutes. We know whose whipped, no.
Keep suckin', kids. No teeth. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2669
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:04:00 -
[119] - Quote
Oh my gawd... I don't know what to say about this OP. I simply lack of words that could describe how disappointed I am by this piece of PR sh!t.
And CSM, those bubbleheads nodding obediently and praising how well CCP reacted? Geez...
You talked all day and all you came up with is "investigation". Because apparently "buy PLEX from me and I will buy it back at Jita price + x" is not clear enough. Invalid signature format |
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:07:00 -
[120] - Quote
Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie)
So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes.
Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this. Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:11:00 -
[121] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Andski wrote:Ohkewl wrote:So all Somer has to do is: 1. everyone buying plex through their site also needs to write an article (lets say min 3 max 20 words) 2. Somer buys these articles for isk and puts them on a websit 3. Markeedragon has a banner on the site and pays Somer for the advertising.
There you go, a legitemate newsite.
except that's not what TMC or other news sites do at all on the other hand, if TMC offered you ISK for buying yourself a game through their amazon affiliate program, that would most certainly be clear-cut RMT Minus the plex buying, it is what they do, buy articles for isk, get money from adds. TMC or Evenews24 doesnt buy just any article from anyone either.
Almost completely untrue!
When an article is written for TMC by a staff writer, that writer is paid in ISK. That much is true. The writer - the person getting the ISK - is under no obligation to look at any ads (note: 'add' is a mathematical operation)*, and certainly not to click through them.
The pageviewers that generate the advertizing (see? only 1 'd') revenue are given no ISK.
As for taking articles from anyone? TMC most certainly does, provided the article meets the site's quality control standards - and if your concept is sound, the editors will help you bring the prose up to spec. All you have to do is send in your submission to [email protected] with the subject line pretty much anything on the order of 'ATTN: Submissions' or the like.
Full disclosure: I'll probably be the one sending you the initial confirmation of receipt.
* - Also, 'website', 'legitimate', and 'news site' (two words). While I realize this is a bit of pedantic nit-picking, the point seems to go hand-in-hand with 'meeting the site's quality control standards'. Spell-check is among them. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
537
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:12:00 -
[122] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie) So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes. Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this.
Strictly speaking that is not an authorization for anything - it lacks all the details (it could be referring to wholly another thing than this current scheme, for one)
Still, it does point towards a possibility of "someone at the CCP did not think this through". Lets just hope that the someone was not their legal department because at that point the worst CCP can really do is to tell Somer to stop.
|
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:14:00 -
[123] - Quote
BTW, why is it that if John Q. Player is suspected of anything, the account is banned pending an investigation. However this is the second time Somer has done this, yet no action has been taken? Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
491
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:18:00 -
[124] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Qalix wrote:Blah, blah, blah. Same as last year. An "investigation" that will "take a while" and then... nothing.
Squeeze out those last dollars while you can. This could have been dealt with in about an hour today. Hilmar, or some other delegate of CCP, types a statement in this thread stating that CCP has zero-tolerance for RMT, and any scheme to circumvent the EUALA and TOS will not be tolerated. THEN he can make the comment that CCP is dealing with their lawyers about this. End of story. People would then know that they are coming down like an anvil on Somer-Blink. And if they did not hammer Somer, there will be zero ambiguity in the fact that CCP would then NOT consider this RMT and the floodgates are open for the cartels to do this, as well as anyone else with a ton of ISK, a web page and a affiliation with a plex seller.
I mostly agree with your basic sentiment. Who knew that when the lion lay down with the lamb it would feel so icky?
Thatt Guy wrote:Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie) So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes. Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this.
I smell another potential T20. I can't wait till we roll through US and EU prime time. Batten down the hatches, this is going to get ugly.
|
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
141
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:19:00 -
[125] - Quote
CCP,
You hoped that this RMT issue with Somer would disapear and simply fade away.
But Somer is AGAIN up to it's old tricks, and IMO they ARE RMT.
More articulate people have shown how Somer are achieving this.
I understand that Somer was never punished originally because you see them as a "great business partner", but that must end now.
Your own TOS / EULA are being violated by Somer and you are providing them with preferencial VIP treatment. Is this the direction CCP really want to go ?
CCP, you know that Somer are RMT. If you deceide to come to the conclusion that Somer are not RMT, then , you are being,....,well,..., what can I say,....
CCP, it's time to punish Somer. That's the right thing to do, and it's a start to how to fix this issue.
CCP, just find some other legitimate and fair way to make money.
By the way -
3rd Party Support - CSM Summit Topic [url]http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=310824[/url] |
Qalix
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
305
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:26:00 -
[126] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Qalix wrote:Blah, blah, blah. Same as last year. An "investigation" that will "take a while" and then... nothing.
Squeeze out those last dollars while you can. Last year was actually quite different. There were two separate issues, or three really. Firstly, there was Somer manipulating IWS prices, which were given out to about six different community groups, not just Somer. And was just a straight up market manipulation. Shady given it was a community reward, but no worse than anything the Goons have done with their Ice interdictions to give another market manipulation example. Secondly there was the ships they were given to raffle out, poor choice by CCP, which people complained would devalue the Golden Magnate, so CCP changed them for a totally new ship. Finally there was the 'RMT scandal'.... except there never was one. There was a change in CCP's policies on third party sellers, of which nearly all were using the same incentive scheme as Somer was. The reason Somer came up was because when the 'cease & desist' was issued as a policy change by CCP, the other schemes all changed asap, while Somer actually increased their scheme running right up until the cut off date with it. So last year was not a question of actual RMT since the schemes till that time had CCP's approval for 'everyone' to use, not just Somer. Nor was it a question of contract fraud or anything of the sort. This year there are those real questions. So, very different case. It wasn't different. Same ****, different day. Somer and Markee cashing in on the game using dubious tactics, CCP pretending like it doesn't understand what's going on, vague discussions of "investigations" and "looking into it" which will come to nothing. CCP has decided they are going to cash in on the idiots who gamble with ISK (and you're all idiots; srsly who thinks that a private website totally outside your control or audit powers would do anything but rip you off?).
There is no better indicator of the true state of the game than this recurring episode of CCP-endorsed RMT. You wanna turn ISK into cash? Sell PLEX. CCP is obviously desperate for that money. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11133
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:28:00 -
[127] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie) So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes. Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this. New signature. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
414
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:45:00 -
[128] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:If Somer are in the wrong, then I agree they should face the appropriate measures for bad behaviour. However, when I look down a street and see a swathe of pitchforks and torches, I only hope that whoever pissed them off gets away with it, regardless of what they've done, because that mindless crowd gives humanity a worse name than the perpetrator they are after.
You must be new. CCP has a long history of blundering, then failing to handle problems appropriately and subsequently falling on their sword a second time.
Sometimes it doesn't hurt to whip out the pitchforks. It's not the fault of people like falcon, but those higher up who are completely detatched from the player base. Pitchforks spur them into temporary action as it's disturbing their collective circle jerk latte drinking sessions while coming up with the next concept players will hate or lose CCP millions of dollars. |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
110
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:52:00 -
[129] - Quote
I've come up with a great idea too. 1. For each $19 you send me via PayPal, you get 1 (one) TritCredit. 2. You know how those noobships always have one unit of Tritanium inside? Annoying as hell. Therefore, for every TritCredit you have, you can contract one noobship+trit to me, and I will buy the Tritanium at a slighly above market rate (let's say 1 billion ISK). 3. Since this is just a convenience service for people who don't want to fly their trit to Jita themselves, just like SOMER buying PLEX at an inflated price, it's perfectly above board.
I don't know anyone at CCP so somebody please call their pals and tell me how much of a bribe cut I'll have to offer to get this scheme signed off on. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
285
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 06:58:00 -
[130] - Quote
I don't see how so many are getting their knickers in a twist over this.
It has been sanctioned, what possible difference does it make to anyone making tears in this and other threads?
I really just don't get the whines. |
|
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:03:00 -
[131] - Quote
After all these years, T20 incidents and all, Its sad to see that, that some things never change...
:CCP:
PS: I put you in a different spot than the rotten eggs though CCP Falcon. Your dedication and opennes is unique.
I will await your further updates mate. |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:05:00 -
[132] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:It has been sanctioned, what possible difference does it make to anyone making tears in this and other threads?
I really just don't get the whines. I just want to get CCP to approve my turn-ISK-into-IRL-money scheme too. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Themanfromdalmontee
EVE RADIO ARMY
65
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:09:00 -
[133] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen
This is the argument I gave at the first mob attack on Somerblink and I still think its right this time.
This foaming at the mouth by people and burning pitch torches really does get my back up.
Thousands of people enjoy the site.
However is there was proper RMT out the back (as in isk being sold directly for money and not a plex incentive) then I will join the mob to shut it down. |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
285
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:13:00 -
[134] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Dilligafmofo wrote:It has been sanctioned, what possible difference does it make to anyone making tears in this and other threads?
I really just don't get the whines. I just want to get CCP to approve my turn-ISK-into-IRL-money scheme too.
Have the brains and ability and you could. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest buddy, good luck to you and anyone else that can.
|
Anya Klibor
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
763
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:17:00 -
[135] - Quote
Themanfromdalmontee wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen This is the argument I gave at the first mob attack on Somerblink and I still think its right this time. This foaming at the mouth by people and burning pitch torches really does get my back up. Thousands of people enjoy the site. However is there was proper RMT out the back (as in isk being sold directly for money and not a plex incentive) then I will join the mob to shut it down.
Except this is not how it happens, at all. The owners of the killboards and the like are not paying you to use their out-of-game service with in-game assets, especially if you buy a PLEX/GTC through their "reseller". In fact, the killboard groups I know of require a monthly fee of ISK (not real-life currency) to maintain a personal, corporartion, or alliance killboard, and odn't offer any incentives for purchasing a GTC at a reseller they are buddy-buddy with. So your argument (both of you) is false simply because of a false dichotomy, at best, and outright inability to read at worst. |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
134
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:18:00 -
[136] - Quote
I said it the last time when Somer did it's first stunt and i will say it again. CCP can't allow this kind of scheme at all.
Lets see what would happen IF: - CCP allows only Somer to run this scheme and no other player is allowed too. The summer of rage and shooting the monument will look like a fresh summer breeze.
- CCP allows everyone to run this scheme. Welcome to EVE CASH online. There is so much ISK in the game, so much in alliance and in private hands it is not even funny.
Both options are really really bad for CCP, they have again no other choice to shut the Somer scheme down. Question of the day is: Is Somer going to face consequences or not? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4107
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:20:00 -
[137] - Quote
Ah. Now that Somer have posted the agreement they supposed had signed off, it's a little clearer what went on. Looks like Somer basically made up some bullcrap about not giving over isk for cash.
Quote:Proposal: If you buy an ETC from the Blink affiliate link, you turn it into PLEX. Blink will buy the PLEX from you at a published rate that is the same for all ETC buyers-- just contract the PLEX to Blink for the agreed-on price. You can only sell 2 PLEX at this rate for each ETC you purchased (so you can't just go buy PLEX in Jita and resell them to Blink for more than you paid) Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented. The first line of the justification suggests that there is no bonus isk, which is clearly a lie. We can see from the price they are buying at that it's extra. If this is what CCP signed off, I would hope to see Somer vanish very rapidly, especially with this being the 2nd time they've tried to wiggle around RMT rules. Don't give them a chance to do it a third time. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1369
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:22:00 -
[138] - Quote
To some of you . . . thank you for the input and the opinions.
To others, get a room and a argue the minutia of word meaning while grabbing your own dictionaries.
Trust me, neither CSM nor CCP is sitting back waiting for this to 'blow over'.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Completely Unaligned
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:23:00 -
[139] - Quote
So, you are all ganging up on Somer, nowhere do I see Eve-bet or Iwantisk.com mentioned. So many people are going to be affected by this witch hunt, Somer sponsors many groups with both isk and items. I don't believe that thousands of $ are being made as mentioned, personally I don't have a problem with a few bucks to pay expenses being made. Isn't the real world full of enough haters for you, can't you leave it out of our games. I joined Eve to have fun and get away from real life problems for a couple of hours a day, so thanks for merging the two worlds so very successfully. Bravo haters of the world. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1325
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:25:00 -
[140] - Quote
Pitchforks, PITTTCHHHFOORRRKSSS!
This is quite simple and has only 3 outcomes:
1. CCP Legal were contacted about this and approved of it. In which case Somer deserves no penalties, even if the program is then stopped.
2. CCP Legal were contacted about this, refused permission, and they did it anyway. Somer will be shut down.
3. CCP Legal were not contacted. Somer gets hit for making false accusations of legal approval.
If CCP does allow it, then fair enough, just make it a level playing field. |
|
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
272
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:25:00 -
[141] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:To some of you . . . thank you for the input and the opinions.
To others, get a room and a argue the minutia of word meaning while grabbing your own dictionaries.
Trust me, neither CSM nor CCP is sitting back waiting for this to 'blow over'.
m I hope so. Did CCP even give us that 'community survey' or whatever they promised us last year? I'm a bit cynical that we'll see any meaningful changes or consequences this time around because the last time this popped up it felt like CCP just did their best to ignore it and hope it went away on it's own. |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
272
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:28:00 -
[142] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ah. Now that Somer have posted the agreement they supposed had signed off, it's a little clearer what went on. Looks like Somer basically made up some bullcrap about not giving over isk for cash. Quote:Proposal: If you buy an ETC from the Blink affiliate link, you turn it into PLEX. Blink will buy the PLEX from you at a published rate that is the same for all ETC buyers-- just contract the PLEX to Blink for the agreed-on price. You can only sell 2 PLEX at this rate for each ETC you purchased (so you can't just go buy PLEX in Jita and resell them to Blink for more than you paid) Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented. The first line of the justification suggests that there is no bonus isk, which is clearly a lie. We can see from the price they are buying at that it's extra. If this is what CCP signed off, I would hope to see Somer vanish very rapidly, especially with this being the 2nd time they've tried to wiggle around RMT rules. Don't give them a chance to do it a third time. Yep. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...
If it turns out that Somer did indeed lie here, there shouldn't be a strike three, especially after that slap in CCP's face last year with the week of billion isk credit cashouts. |
Anya Klibor
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
764
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:29:00 -
[143] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:To some of you . . . thank you for the input and the opinions.
To others, get a room and a argue the minutia of word meaning while grabbing your own dictionaries.
Trust me, neither CSM nor CCP is sitting back waiting for this to 'blow over'.
m
Really? Because we have plenty of drama threads from the past that say the exact opposite. Like the first one about SOMERBlink and RMT. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:32:00 -
[144] - Quote
Completely Unaligned wrote:So, you are all ganging up on Somer, nowhere do I see Eve-bet or Iwantisk.com mentioned. So many people are going to be affected by this witch hunt, Somer sponsors many groups with both isk and items. I don't believe that thousands of $ are being made as mentioned, personally I don't have a problem with a few bucks to pay expenses being made. Isn't the real world full of enough haters for you, can't you leave it out of our games. I joined Eve to have fun and get away from real life problems for a couple of hours a day, so thanks for merging the two worlds so very successfully. Bravo haters of the world.
Pretty sure the reason EVE-Bet aren't mentioned, is that they're not running a real money making scheme through their service. Once you can actually prove, or even find suspicious activity of, that then you can try and ask why they're not being looked at with the same level of scrutiny. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Prince Kobol
2060
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:36:00 -
[145] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Pitchforks, PITTTCHHHFOORRRKSSS!
This is quite simple and has only 3 outcomes:
1. CCP Legal were contacted about this and approved of it. In which case Somer deserves no penalties, even if the program is then stopped.
2. CCP Legal were contacted about this, refused permission, and they did it anyway. Somer will be shut down.
3. CCP Legal were not contacted. Somer gets hit for making false accusations of legal approval.
If CCP does allow it, then fair enough, just make it a level playing field.
Well it is looking like CCP Legal agreed with this and if that is the case then CCP could be in a lot of trouble if they try to stop him.
Also to those saying he lied, he didn't.
He is following what he agreed with CCP to the letter. The most important part of the agreement is that there was no set price for how much he pay for each plex.
That was he wanted and CCP amazingly agreed.
We all know that is nothing more then a clever way to RMT and that Somer has scammed CCP in the true nature of Eve.
The problem is for CCP that if they have legally agreed to this backing out could cost them. |
Prince Kobol
2061
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:37:00 -
[146] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:To some of you . . . thank you for the input and the opinions.
To others, get a room and a argue the minutia of word meaning while grabbing your own dictionaries.
Trust me, neither CSM nor CCP is sitting back waiting for this to 'blow over'.
m
Seriously dude, stop trying to defend CCP.
As many people have already stated, they did exactly that the first time round. I know you are trying to defend your friends but all your doing is making the CSM look more and more like a mouth piece for CCP. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2487
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:39:00 -
[147] - Quote
Are SOMERblink too big to fail?
For the sake of the game, I hope not. This is not a signature. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2670
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:40:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP legal department has to have even better space lawyers than those we see posting on forums from time to time. Good game, Lisa :) Oh well, at least they "investigate", that has to count for something, right? Invalid signature format |
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
538
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:42:00 -
[149] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:To some of you . . . thank you for the input and the opinions.
To others, get a room and a argue the minutia of word meaning while grabbing your own dictionaries.
Trust me, neither CSM nor CCP is sitting back waiting for this to 'blow over'.
m
No worries.
The torches and the pitchforks are here just to make sure of that. No monument is being shot. Yet.
|
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:43:00 -
[150] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Pitchforks, PITTTCHHHFOORRRKSSS!
This is quite simple and has only 3 outcomes:
1. CCP Legal were contacted about this and approved of it. In which case Somer deserves no penalties, even if the program is then stopped.
2. CCP Legal were contacted about this, refused permission, and they did it anyway. Somer will be shut down.
3. CCP Legal were not contacted. Somer gets hit for making false accusations of legal approval.
If CCP does allow it, then fair enough, just make it a level playing field. Well it is looking like CCP Legal agreed with this and if that is the case then CCP could be in a lot of trouble if they try to stop him. Also to those saying he lied, he didn't. He is following what he agreed with CCP to the letter. The most important part of the agreement is that there was no set price for how much he pay for each plex. That is what he needed to make this work and CCP amazingly agreed. We all know that is nothing more then a clever way to RMT and that Somer has scammed CCP in the true nature of Eve. The problem is for CCP that if they have legally agreed to this backing out could cost them.
"Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link"
But they are doing exactly that. So It's blink that have broken the agreement already and should be in trouble |
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4109
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:46:00 -
[151] - Quote
Completely Unaligned wrote:So, you are all ganging up on Somer, nowhere do I see Eve-bet or Iwantisk.com mentioned. So many people are going to be affected by this witch hunt, Somer sponsors many groups with both isk and items. I don't believe that thousands of $ are being made as mentioned, personally I don't have a problem with a few bucks to pay expenses being made. Isn't the real world full of enough haters for you, can't you leave it out of our games. I joined Eve to have fun and get away from real life problems for a couple of hours a day, so thanks for merging the two worlds so very successfully. Bravo haters of the world. They aren't being mentioned because they aren't engaging in RMT. Our issue isn't with running an eve gambling site, it's with them running an RMT scheme to run it as a business. I joined EVE for entertainment, and I'd like to continue being entertained, not watch the game go down the pan from RMTers wrecking it to make some quick cash. Somer clearly doesn't give a crap about the game, just about their bottom line, so CCP should smash that banhammer down with full force and be done with them.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Prince Kobol
2063
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:47:00 -
[152] - Quote
Tam Arai wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Pitchforks, PITTTCHHHFOORRRKSSS!
This is quite simple and has only 3 outcomes:
1. CCP Legal were contacted about this and approved of it. In which case Somer deserves no penalties, even if the program is then stopped.
2. CCP Legal were contacted about this, refused permission, and they did it anyway. Somer will be shut down.
3. CCP Legal were not contacted. Somer gets hit for making false accusations of legal approval.
If CCP does allow it, then fair enough, just make it a level playing field. Well it is looking like CCP Legal agreed with this and if that is the case then CCP could be in a lot of trouble if they try to stop him. Also to those saying he lied, he didn't. He is following what he agreed with CCP to the letter. The most important part of the agreement is that there was no set price for how much he pay for each plex. That is what he needed to make this work and CCP amazingly agreed. We all know that is nothing more then a clever way to RMT and that Somer has scammed CCP in the true nature of Eve. The problem is for CCP that if they have legally agreed to this backing out could cost them. "Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link" But they are doing exactly that. So It's blink that have broken the agreement already and should be in trouble
"Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link" Correct, they don't. They are using the fact that they agreed no set price for what they would pay for plex as a way to make this work |
Prince Kobol
2063
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:50:00 -
[153] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Completely Unaligned wrote:So, you are all ganging up on Somer, nowhere do I see Eve-bet or Iwantisk.com mentioned. So many people are going to be affected by this witch hunt, Somer sponsors many groups with both isk and items. I don't believe that thousands of $ are being made as mentioned, personally I don't have a problem with a few bucks to pay expenses being made. Isn't the real world full of enough haters for you, can't you leave it out of our games. I joined Eve to have fun and get away from real life problems for a couple of hours a day, so thanks for merging the two worlds so very successfully. Bravo haters of the world. They aren't being mentioned because they aren't engaging in RMT. Our issue isn't with running an eve gambling site, it's with them running an RMT scheme to run it as a business. I joined EVE for entertainment, and I'd like to continue being entertained, not watch the game go down the pan from RMTers wrecking it to make some quick cash. Somer clearly doesn't give a crap about the game, just about their bottom line, so CCP should smash that banhammer down with full force and be done with them.
Dude, As much as I agree with what you are saying and would love Somer to get permanently banned and every single isk in any wallet he has access to removed if CCP have legally agreed this with him then they might not be able to do anything.
I have have always said nothing CCP does surprises me anymore.. boy was I wrong lol |
Lauresh Thellere
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:51:00 -
[154] - Quote
Thanks for the update Falcon, I will be extremely displeased if this gets swept under the carpet like CCP has a tendency to do.
I do hope that people aren't crucifying you and the other devs for what seems to be an idiotic move from Sales/Legal. |
Prince Kobol
2063
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:52:00 -
[155] - Quote
Lauresh Thellere wrote:Thanks for the update Falcon, I will be extremely displeased if this gets swept under the carpet like CCP has a tendency to do.
I do hope that people aren't crucifying you and the other devs for what seems to be an idiotic move from Sales/Legal.
Like how many people were crucifying the GM's as they thought they okayed this? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4109
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 07:59:00 -
[156] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Dude, As much as I agree with what you are saying and would love Somer to get permanently banned and every single isk in any wallet he has access to removed if CCP have legally agreed this with him then they might not be able to do anything.
I have have always said nothing CCP does surprises me anymore.. boy was I wrong lol First off, they can do what they want. They can literally ban you for liking the colour yellow.
Secondly, what they agreed to appears to be "no extra isk", and what they are doing is paying extra isk for the plex. So what CCP appear to have agreed (which is in error itself I agree) is not what is happening. Had the agreement not had this specific line: "Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link." then perhaps they could have wiggled it, but this is pretty clear, and certainly not a reflection of the reality of the situation. Buy though their link, get extra isk for your plex.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:03:00 -
[157] - Quote
Well,
Defending CCP and telling that they just did not know what happened is a "naive" approach, If you know the past tendencies of CCP to create inbalances between certain player groups by simply supporting them unequally ( from some GM giving t2 blueprints to certain groups to last years Somer incident ) and and breaking the balance of the game.
It is also naive to expect a company based on sole profit not to see its memberbase as dollar signs.. But at least I wanted to be treated more than that, because CCP as a service provider and producer claimed that they will give more than that.
It seems CCP deliberately supporting a party to make RMT (which I lost my doubts about that ) because of the symbiotic relationship between CCP and Somer. They doing this just to guarantee their survival, with selfish intentions, like every other company out there.
So please, at least be honest Hilmarr and go out public and say the truth to these people. I for one want to hear your words on that, instead of your workers. I want to hear this from the decisionmakers IF there is really this incident occured, whict it seems it is.
|
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1369
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:05:00 -
[158] - Quote
Out of curiosity.
For all you folks gathering the pitchforks and torches and learning to tie ropes into nooses. Do you expect a single or mass execution? Just Somer or Somer and staff or Somer staff and anybody who has ever done business with them?
damn, that includes me.
Or if you are heading the mob towards CCP are you looking for the one person mentioned in the 'email leak' or their entire staff or (as some of you love to ask for) the entire senior management team of CCP for allowing this to take place? Community and CSM thrown in for good measure, no doubt.
damn I made the list again
How much blood, how many bodies do you need to satisfy your craving for justice?
After all, as the queen once said . . . `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
I am not apologizing for CCP, just reminding some that this is not an instantaneous kind of thing. But some of you want to skip sentence, verdict, and leap straight to the execution(s) so anything I say to delay that must be stonewalling and sucking up to my masters.
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:07:00 -
[159] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Out of curiosity.
After all, as the queen once said . . . `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
I am not apologizing for CCP, just reminding some that this is not an instantaneous kind of thing. But some of you want to skip sentence, verdict, and leap straight to the execution(s) so anything I say to delay that must be stonewalling and sucking up to my masters.
I just want to hear from the real people, the people who involved that to explain what really happened. From The decision makers. Not from the people that just learned this 24 hour ago.
There are people out there really know whats happenning in CCP. I want them to go out public and explain to me that, why some pople are treated differently than the others in this game when it comes to EULA? As legally both me and somer are subcribers. So both are bound to the EULA rules. |
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:09:00 -
[160] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:
Trust me, neither CSM nor CCP is sitting back waiting for this to 'blow over'.
http://i.imgur.com/P7ugeFc.jpg Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
15709
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:10:00 -
[161] - Quote
Man, if only gambling was integrated with the game and players didn't need third party sites for it. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2210
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:11:00 -
[162] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen There is a huge difference between having an affiliate link on a fansite and giving players an isk reward for using that link. The difference is RMT, and it is what separates what other sites do from what SOMERblink did. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2210
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:16:00 -
[163] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Out of curiosity.
For all you folks gathering the pitchforks and torches and learning to tie ropes into nooses. Do you expect a single or mass execution? Just Somer or Somer and staff or Somer staff and anybody who has ever done business with them?
damn, that includes me.
Or if you are heading the mob towards CCP are you looking for the one person mentioned in the 'email leak' or their entire staff or (as some of you love to ask for) the entire senior management team of CCP for allowing this to take place? Community and CSM thrown in for good measure, no doubt.
damn I made the list again
How much blood, how many bodies do you need to satisfy your craving for justice?
After all, as the queen once said . . . `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
I am not apologizing for CCP, just reminding some that this is not an instantaneous kind of thing. But some of you want to skip sentence, verdict, and leap straight to the execution(s) so anything I say to delay that must be stonewalling and sucking up to my masters.
I'm not quite sure where you're getting all that from, but it's not a verdict or judgement I'm more interested in at the moment. I think most people understand that this will take some time to resolve, but I would very much like to know what CCP's stance on it was in the first place. Did they give permission to SOMER as claimed on the site, or is this something that CCP definitely still does classify as RMT? |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1371
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:17:00 -
[164] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote: I just want to hear from the real people, the people who involved that to explain what really happened. From The decision makers. Not from the people that just learned this 24 hour ago.
There are people out there really know whats happenning in CCP. I want them to go out public and explain to me that, why some pople are treated differently than the others in this game when it comes to EULA? As legally both me and somer are subcribers. So both are bound to the EULA rules.
Fair enough.
But just to point out one small detail. Falcon IS the Community Dev. It is his task to talk to you and get the information needed.
I and the rest of the CSM were elected to represent the players, not CCP. We have been doing that, this past day and will continue to do so. Yes, we have our NDA and yes, that gets irritating. I am going through this thread looking for new details, new ideas or requests.
But some see it as trolling or whatever.
Look to out website and see how many of us have written things in the past 36 hours about this. Talk to the people who you think best represent you on the CSM (whether you voted or not). Keep posting here, I will keep reading.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
494
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:17:00 -
[165] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Out of curiosity.
For all you folks gathering the pitchforks and torches and learning to tie ropes into nooses. Do you expect a single or mass execution? Just Somer or Somer and staff or Somer staff and anybody who has ever done business with them?
damn, that includes me.
Or if you are heading the mob towards CCP are you looking for the one person mentioned in the 'email leak' or their entire staff or (as some of you love to ask for) the entire senior management team of CCP for allowing this to take place? Community and CSM thrown in for good measure, no doubt.
damn I made the list again
How much blood, how many bodies do you need to satisfy your craving for justice?
After all, as the queen once said . . . `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
I am not apologizing for CCP, just reminding some that this is not an instantaneous kind of thing. But some of you want to skip sentence, verdict, and leap straight to the execution(s) so anything I say to delay that must be stonewalling and sucking up to my masters.
Calm yourself.
You know how this sort of thing goes. Momentum is what it is. Some people love a good witch hunt.
Having said that; we'd all be a helluvah lot less testy if we weren't addressing the issue of RMT and/or favortism in relation to the same organisation not even 18 months after the first incident. The fact that we are even having the conversation again says that the matter wasn't solved properly the first time.
Confidence in CCP has been damaged because of it. I hope they get it right this time, and set an appropriate precedent that we can feel confident in. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2671
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:19:00 -
[166] - Quote
Mike, do you know anything more about this than what was already posted in this and previous thread? Because from where I sit case is simple: either CCP agreed for SOMER's scheme or they didn't. Former makes it clear: all is cool, move along. Latter makes it even clearer: SOMER lied and it's plain old RMT which is bannable offense.
Nobody can deny real world currency is getting exchanged for ISK here, only thing "community" doesn't know is CCP role and stance about it. And how much "investigation" is needed to answer one simple question: did CCP allowed SOMER to put his idea in motion? Don't they know that?
Smoke and mirrors are fine, they can make torch light really breathtaking to observe. Invalid signature format |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
403
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:20:00 -
[167] - Quote
I got an idea to fix this bollox
Remove all 3rd party sellers...
Set up a 3rd party of their own....... then the % cut that normaly goes to the 3rd party and the affliiate. goes to charity.
then people can feel good about buying plex as a small cut of every plex that gets brought goes to a good cause.
end of every month the money generated goes to a random charity that the community votes for.
How does that sound
OOO PS and string up Somer :) |
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
539
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:29:00 -
[168] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Out of curiosity.
For all you folks gathering the pitchforks and torches and learning to tie ropes into nooses. Do you expect a single or mass execution? Just Somer or Somer and staff or Somer staff and anybody who has ever done business with them?
damn, that includes me.
Or if you are heading the mob towards CCP are you looking for the one person mentioned in the 'email leak' or their entire staff or (as some of you love to ask for) the entire senior management team of CCP for allowing this to take place? Community and CSM thrown in for good measure, no doubt.
damn I made the list again
How much blood, how many bodies do you need to satisfy your craving for justice?
After all, as the queen once said . . . `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
I am not apologizing for CCP, just reminding some that this is not an instantaneous kind of thing. But some of you want to skip sentence, verdict, and leap straight to the execution(s) so anything I say to delay that must be stonewalling and sucking up to my masters.
None of the above.
Yet.
I personally expect this to turn out to be a case of Somer misleading CCP, CCP not thinking things through (never happened before, shocker) and agreeing to something that may or may not exactly reflect what Somer is doing.
Once CCP figures out everything (they're in progress of doing it), most likely Somer's thing will be stopped, CCP will do mea culpa on the process that got it kinda-approved and the crowd is told to disperse.
(alternatively CCP gets really pissed that Somer is doing this and applies banhammer / severs business ties, but honestly I do not expect this to happen, no matter how many people call for it)
Remains to be seen what happens to PLEX referral systems. This is clearly abusing such a system, but once the cat is out of the bag, there is a big risk that such abuse will happen again, trying to fly under the radar...
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2488
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:39:00 -
[169] - Quote
Had CCP dealt with this issue properly last year, there would be no need for this thread.
This is not a signature. |
Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
24
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:41:00 -
[170] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Tam Arai wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Pitchforks, PITTTCHHHFOORRRKSSS!
This is quite simple and has only 3 outcomes:
1. CCP Legal were contacted about this and approved of it. In which case Somer deserves no penalties, even if the program is then stopped.
2. CCP Legal were contacted about this, refused permission, and they did it anyway. Somer will be shut down.
3. CCP Legal were not contacted. Somer gets hit for making false accusations of legal approval.
If CCP does allow it, then fair enough, just make it a level playing field. Well it is looking like CCP Legal agreed with this and if that is the case then CCP could be in a lot of trouble if they try to stop him. Also to those saying he lied, he didn't. He is following what he agreed with CCP to the letter. The most important part of the agreement is that there was no set price for how much he pay for each plex. That is what he needed to make this work and CCP amazingly agreed. We all know that is nothing more then a clever way to RMT and that Somer has scammed CCP in the true nature of Eve. The problem is for CCP that if they have legally agreed to this backing out could cost them. "Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link" But they are doing exactly that. So It's blink that have broken the agreement already and should be in trouble "Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link" Correct, they don't. They are using the fact that they agreed no set price for what they would pay for plex as a way to make this work
Actually, everyone playing this game agreed to the TOS and the EULA, and they are pretty clear about not using the game for profit making purposes. CCP hf and all its shareholders are of course the ones trying to stay in the black here.
They chose to implement third party resellers (for various very obvious, and some not so obvious, reasons), that basically function as for-profit business partners. Qualifying as one of these resellers, as well as the restrictions placed upon them, are quite stringent.
Then there are the referral links, which are intended to help defray costs of things such as web hosting for community sites; players here can speak with their wallets with who they chose to support. It is in this same spirit of support for the game (which frankly all leads to increased advertising and exposure of CCP's product they are marketing) that certain real life services (such as artwork) can be exchanged for in game currency, as long as they are properly documented in the Sell Orders forum. This group of business partners fall into the nonprofit organization category.
Now perhaps the party in question is functioning like a NPO, and funds realized through these transactions will not be used to benefit any owners (if this type of scenario is what theoretically was approved by legal). It still falls short of meeting the EULA regarding income seeking, regardless of the intended purposes of said income. This is the crux of the situation that has to be dealt with. Regardless of what was approved, what was intended, or what was spoken (or lied about), this is the issue that has far reaching repercussions.
I know where my money goes when I pay for my subscription. I can choose, based on merit, who sees a percentage of the amount I spend on a PLEX. I can additionally choose when to stop supporting EVE, Valkyrie, and (theoretically) Legion, as soon as I don't agree with their business practices.
In the end, it is up to CCP hf to decide what to do with its product. If it chooses to alienate the customer base that has an interest in seeing their product thrive in order that individuals content to make a buck (even if they have to break every kettle and sink every boat) can continue to do so, so be it.
|
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10912
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:42:00 -
[171] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Having said that; we'd all be a helluvah lot less testy if we weren't addressing the issue of RMT and/or favortism in relation to the same organisation not even 18 months after the first incident.
It hasn't even been a year. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1839
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:45:00 -
[172] - Quote
Since people love to gamble, CCP should just make an in-game lottery system.
Letting a third-party manage so many trillions of ISK - and so many PLEX sales - is unhealthy for their business. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
415
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:50:00 -
[173] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:
For all you folks gathering the pitchforks and torches and learning to tie ropes into nooses. Do you expect a single or mass execution?
Mike, the issue isn't with somer, members of the legal, sales or marketing team (although they should all watch Bill Hicks, he has great advice for people in marketing), its the CCP exec team where the problem actually lies. They set the precedence for the companies culture and attitude.
CCP is famous for poor communication, poor community relations and making decisions which are polar opposite to what the players aka customers want. If I was Hillmar or the exec team I'd be ultra sensitive to issues which could upset the community aka customers on a large scale. RMT is a prime example of this. They know that there's certain boxes which, if ticked will cause rage. They also know what makes them happy.
Instead the exec team is completely disconnected from the player base. For 360 days a year they sit around , eating rotten shark and pickled fish, coming up with ideas the community - aka customers - either doesn't care about, doesn't want or terrible business ideas where they spunk millions of dollars on bad games. For 5 days a year they spend some time with players so they can feel ~connected~ before heading back up to their offices to spend another 360 days a year doing absolutely nothing in relation to their only source of income other than breaking it at worst, ignoring it at best.
I don't think anyone wants to see mass executions, however what I think people would like to see and would benefit CCP's image is genuine concern and action, with tangible results from the leaders of CCP. They have the ability and power to change a companies culture and prevent stuff like this repeating itself over and over. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10913
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:51:00 -
[174] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Dude, As much as I agree with what you are saying and would love Somer to get permanently banned and every single isk in any wallet he has access to removed if CCP have legally agreed this with him then they might not be able to do anything.
I have have always said nothing CCP does surprises me anymore.. boy was I wrong lol
CCP would be immensely stupid to make any legally binding agreements with any of their players beyond the EULA.
When an MMO developer regards any individual player as a "business partner" rather than a customer, they're effectively sending the rest of their playerbase down **** creek. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
404
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:53:00 -
[175] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Since people love to gamble, CCP should just make an in-game lottery system. Letting a third-party manage so many trillions of ISK - and so many PLEX sales - is unhealthy for their business. EDIT: Rain6637 wrote:Man, if only gambling was integrated with the game and players didn't need third party sites for it. Great minds think alike. +1
I totaly agree
if they did the somer thing them self it is a very good way to make an isk sink and take extra isk out of the game. |
Kename Fin
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:55:00 -
[176] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Out of curiosity.
For all you folks gathering the pitchforks and torches and learning to tie ropes into nooses. Do you expect a single or mass execution? Just Somer or Somer and staff or Somer staff and anybody who has ever done business with them?
damn, that includes me.
Or if you are heading the mob towards CCP are you looking for the one person mentioned in the 'email leak' or their entire staff or (as some of you love to ask for) the entire senior management team of CCP for allowing this to take place? Community and CSM thrown in for good measure, no doubt.
damn I made the list again
How much blood, how many bodies do you need to satisfy your craving for justice?
After all, as the queen once said . . . `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
I am not apologizing for CCP, just reminding some that this is not an instantaneous kind of thing. But some of you want to skip sentence, verdict, and leap straight to the execution(s) so anything I say to delay that must be stonewalling and sucking up to my masters.
Calm yourself. You know how this sort of thing goes. Momentum is what it is. Some people love a good witch hunt. Having said that; we'd all be a helluvah lot less testy if we weren't addressing the issue of RMT and/or favortism in relation to the same organisation not even 18 months after the first incident. The fact that we are even having the conversation again says that the matter wasn't solved properly the first time. Confidence in CCP has been damaged because of it. I hope they get it right this time, and set an appropriate precedent that we can feel confident in.
First thing - I have flown with Mike, talked with him and know that he anything BUT a simple shill for the CCP Kool-aidGäó. He has always (even pre-CSM) been concerned with the improvement of the EVE universe and not just doing what he was told.
Second - This is not to say we have not been sold lines before or even drank deeply from the Reality Distortion Field fountain. We have all wanted to sincerely believe that the asset managers, the developers, the designers and their corporate overlords are all committed to making EVE enjoyable and lasting for ALL of us.
Third - This whole situation indeed tends to make one skittish of seeing old rumours, demons and ghost return to plague, bite and haunt us again. As Mike mentioned the verdict may seem foregone and the sentencing a formality, we do need them to avoid the reality that we are just the vindictive mob.
Given all of those, I have to give Mike (and begrudgingly most of the rest of the CSM [I reserve the right to hate individuals irrationally and without limit for perceived injustices however slight or imagined]) the benefit of the doubt that he is doing what he can to communicate those things he can to us and trying to move us toward understanding. It is a royal mess and I am fairly certain that none of us would like to have anything similar come to roost in our own business, and yet is has and needs to be dealt with.
tl:dr; Mike is good. CCP has not always been stirling. The mob is restless. Let's hold them to their promises without burning down their castle.
Yet. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15710
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 08:55:00 -
[177] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Since people love to gamble, CCP should just make an in-game lottery system. Letting a third-party manage so many trillions of ISK - and so many PLEX sales - is unhealthy for their business. EDIT: Rain6637 wrote:Man, if only gambling was integrated with the game and players didn't need third party sites for it. Great minds think alike. +1 I totaly agree if they did the somer thing them self it is a very good way to make an isk sink and take extra isk out of the game. lack of creative vision and fashion sense. I'm taking bets on what percentage of monument shooters still wear cargo pants. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Anya Klibor
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
764
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:05:00 -
[178] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Completely Unaligned wrote:So, you are all ganging up on Somer, nowhere do I see Eve-bet or Iwantisk.com mentioned. So many people are going to be affected by this witch hunt, Somer sponsors many groups with both isk and items. I don't believe that thousands of $ are being made as mentioned, personally I don't have a problem with a few bucks to pay expenses being made. Isn't the real world full of enough haters for you, can't you leave it out of our games. I joined Eve to have fun and get away from real life problems for a couple of hours a day, so thanks for merging the two worlds so very successfully. Bravo haters of the world. They aren't being mentioned because they aren't engaging in RMT. Our issue isn't with running an eve gambling site, it's with them running an RMT scheme to run it as a business. I joined EVE for entertainment, and I'd like to continue being entertained, not watch the game go down the pan from RMTers wrecking it to make some quick cash. Somer clearly doesn't give a crap about the game, just about their bottom line, so CCP should smash that banhammer down with full force and be done with them. Dude, As much as I agree with what you are saying and would love Somer to get permanently banned and every single isk in any wallet he has access to removed if CCP have legally agreed this with him then they might not be able to do anything. I have have always said nothing CCP does surprises me anymore.. boy was I wrong lol
Except that Legal could never go along with this. That would invalidate the EULA in almost any future circumstance without a complete rewording. [u]You cannot make money off of the game.[/]u] |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
404
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:06:00 -
[179] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Lord LazyGhost wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Since people love to gamble, CCP should just make an in-game lottery system. Letting a third-party manage so many trillions of ISK - and so many PLEX sales - is unhealthy for their business. EDIT: Rain6637 wrote:Man, if only gambling was integrated with the game and players didn't need third party sites for it. Great minds think alike. +1 I totaly agree if they did the somer thing them self it is a very good way to make an isk sink and take extra isk out of the game. lack of creative vision and fashion sense. I'm taking bets on what percentage of monument shooters still wear cargo pants.
To add to this.
if ccp did this iam pretty sure a lot more people would run with it. Becasue they would trust that it is fair.
atm a lot of people dontplay somer becasue they dont trust it with shill accounts and all that jaz.
ccp running the show with transparancy it could be a great way for them to remove isk from the game in a steady and controlled and Honest way.
They could even use said isk to fund ingame events. instead of spawning supers and titains for events they could just buy them keeping the isk flowing in game and keeping titans off the market
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
15712
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:08:00 -
[180] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Lord LazyGhost wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Since people love to gamble, CCP should just make an in-game lottery system. Letting a third-party manage so many trillions of ISK - and so many PLEX sales - is unhealthy for their business. EDIT: Rain6637 wrote:Man, if only gambling was integrated with the game and players didn't need third party sites for it. Great minds think alike. +1 I totaly agree if they did the somer thing them self it is a very good way to make an isk sink and take extra isk out of the game. lack of creative vision and fashion sense. I'm taking bets on what percentage of monument shooters still wear cargo pants. To add to this. if ccp did this iam pretty sure a lot more people would run with it. Becasue they would trust that it is fair. atm a lot of people dontplay somer becasue they dont trust it with shill accounts and all that jaz. ccp running the show with transparancy it could be a great way for them to remove isk from the game in a steady and controlled and Honest way. They could even use said isk to fund ingame events. instead of spawning supers and titains for events they could just buy them keeping the isk flowing in game and keeping titans off the market that and people could have kept their jobs while EVE appealed to new demographic(s). President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:12:00 -
[181] - Quote
I read Somer's proposal text in full (linked on his site) and if you do, it's pretty obvious IMO that the wording and order of given information is intentionally misleading. Furthermore the claimed intention (provide a service to players to ease in game PLEX selling) makes no business sense in combination with a negative ISK fee unless you include the real money part.
BUT what if the scheme is altered to give out the Jita sell price -1 Mio in fees for the service? I'm my own NPC alt. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4112
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:21:00 -
[182] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:For all you folks gathering the pitchforks and torches and learning to tie ropes into nooses. Do you expect a single or mass execution? Just Somer or Somer and staff or Somer staff and anybody who has ever done business with them? On the Somer side, I expect the usual treatment. Somer should be permabanned, as would any other account directly involved with the running of Somer as a business, an all assets removed. The staff that aren't at that high level should just have all Somer assets removed. Usually with RMT, there is no messing about, the account involved are gone and the isk/items are taken, simple as that. I don't expect this to be any different. If it is, that shows that there is unfair leniency being shown to Somer.
Mike Azariah wrote:Or if you are heading the mob towards CCP are you looking for the one person mentioned in the 'email leak' or their entire staff or (as some of you love to ask for) the entire senior management team of CCP for allowing this to take place? Community and CSM thrown in for good measure, no doubt. From CCP, all I expect is an understanding of what went wrong, how it went wrong, and the steps that will be taken to prevent it reoccurring. I'm certainly not screaming for anyone's head on a stick. Whether or not they think any punishment is due internally is up to them and none of our business.
And I'd say the CSM have handled this one exceptionally and thank you all for that. There's clearly a lot of effort going on to make sure that people are as in the loop as possible, and that there's an assurance it's being looked at. The only worry people have is that like has happened before, the results will be underwhelming and nothing will change, with this just getting swept away. Do us all a favour and ensure that doesn't happen. Perhaps if results began to meet the expectations for the community, we'd see less people losing faith in CCPs ability to deal with these situations. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4112
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:28:00 -
[183] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:I read Somer's proposal text in full (linked on his site) and if you do, it's pretty obvious IMO that the wording and order of given information is intentionally misleading. Furthermore the claimed intention (provide a service to players to ease in game PLEX selling) makes no business sense in combination with a negative ISK fee unless you include the real money part.
BUT what if the scheme is altered to give out the Jita sell price -1 Mio in fees for the service? Indeed, it was designed to sound like it was purposely avoiding RMT while in actual fact facilitating it. As for the altered scheme, I'd say that it's still mixing up in game items with real cash, and is dangerous ground to leave open. Additionally, I think Somer have used up all of their "benefit of the doubt" cards. It wouldn't be unreasonable for CCP to disallow Somer's use of any GTC affiliate program through any reseller. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5278
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:34:00 -
[184] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I have a bottle of shampoo in my hands. Nowhere on the label does it mention anything about cleaning my hair. It just says "shampoo" with a few ingredients and sales points based around them, and some instructions on how to use it, but no explicit claim that it's gonna clean my hair. I guess it's all intended to deceive, and by virtue of that, it probably won't wash my hair. Am I right?
So, who's really 'quibbling' with words?
Maybe you should consider getting a better shampoo.
The label on mine starts with: "Cleaning and conditioning in one step"
Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.
Buying PLEX for 50m over sell orders sounds a lot like the "extra ISK" you might give to an RMT peddler for the "convenience" of their home delivery of one trit. Also sounds a lot like the "extra ISK" the proposal specifically promises not to offer.
As for whether approval matters, well, CCP "approved" the abuse of the Magnetar exploit in a petition filed using carefully obfuscated language. How'd AHARM fare in the fallout of that?
Mike Azariah does have a serious point though, it's incredibly difficult to figure out how to punish businesses for crimes in a way that both satisfies our desire for apparent fairness (Bob went to prison for life when he killed his wife, BiggCorp got a fine for killing 20 people?) and takes into account the fact that businesses are fundamentally different (Do we put BiggCorp's Janitor in prison along with the rest of the employees?). Personally, I think severing business ties with Markee Dragon (who keeps being involved in shady stuff) and slapping Blink with an ISK fine (if for no other reason than that trying to go after a cash fine would be hard) is about the resolution I'd hope for (assuming there's no exculpatory evidence not yet made public, ofc). "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15715
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:49:00 -
[185] - Quote
I see this as a case of cat-and-mouse, that shouldn't involve bans. I actually kinda don't care about SOMER's benefit or gain. however, what I am concerned about is whether SOMER's PLEX volumes should have caused any flags with CCP, and whether CCP should be more active in intervening for the sake of PLEX prices (based on these types of indicators).
specifically, these things:
-what volume of PLEX SOMER acquired through its bonus program
-what was done with those PLEX (was it hoarded, resold, speculated with)
-what impact SOMER had on PLEX prices (did it contribute to PLEX inflation to a significant degree)
if this was something that was caught sooner than later, great. but what about the future--before this bonus sequence was brought to light, couldn't / shouldn't this have raised questions CCP-side purely based on volume of PLEX? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:51:00 -
[186] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:I read Somer's proposal text in full (linked on his site) and if you do, it's pretty obvious IMO that the wording and order of given information is intentionally misleading. Furthermore the claimed intention (provide a service to players to ease in game PLEX selling) makes no business sense in combination with a negative ISK fee unless you include the real money part.
BUT what if the scheme is altered to give out the Jita sell price -1 Mio in fees for the service? Indeed, it was designed to sound like it was purposely avoiding RMT while in actual fact facilitating it. As for the altered scheme, I'd say that it's still mixing up in game items with real cash, and is dangerous ground to leave open. Additionally, I think Somer have used up all of their "benefit of the doubt" cards. It wouldn't be unreasonable for CCP to disallow Somer's use of any GTC affiliate program through any reseller. The challenge with this hypothetical alteration of the scheme is, it would set Somer almost* in par with any other 3rd party service like our beloved killboards ... we all are sure, linking in game ISK-valued benefits for real money (wherever it comes from) is RMT and bad; but non-(direct)-ISK-valued benefits are ok?
* There is still one maybe crucial difference to killboards and news sites, in case of Somer there is a hard link between the affiliate program generating the real money and the in-game benefit, though you could argue this rule to be required to prevent abuse etc. I'm my own NPC alt. |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
285
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 09:53:00 -
[187] - Quote
How many eve players are there?
CCP now into 2nd day of investigations to pander to 50 -60 butthurt whiners on this subject.
Ya'll need to get a life.
Who is getting hurt here? how many have and continue to benefit from Somer's donations and sponsorship?
Band waggon jumpers the lot of you |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10916
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:01:00 -
[188] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:How many eve players are there?
CCP now into 2nd day of investigations to pander to 50 -60 butthurt whiners on this subject.
Ya'll need to get a life.
Who is getting hurt here? how many have and continue to benefit from Somer's donations and sponsorship?
Band waggon jumpers the lot of you
1) Most players don't post on the forums but that's not a good reason to ignore the forums
2) 85 unique authors in this thread, 106 in the last, probably a whole lot more in last year's somergate threads. This isn't a small number of "butthurt whiners", sorry
3) Whether it affects any individual in this thread or not is irrelevant. There are a lot of things that scarcely affect you that you dislike and would protest.
4) Blink is not a charity, it is a for-profit enterprise in and out of game. Shocking, I know. Donations and sponsorship are solely for the sake of publicity. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:03:00 -
[189] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:On the Somer side, I expect the usual treatment. Somer should be permabanned, as would any other account directly involved with the running of Somer as a business, an all assets removed. The staff that aren't at that high level should just have all Somer assets removed. Usually with RMT, there is no messing about, the account involved are gone and the isk/items are taken, simple as that. I don't expect this to be any different. If it is, that shows that there is unfair leniency being shown to Somer. .
This.
+1 If this wont happen, then it means the EULA is no more. You can't just keep some people above the laws. Its not just or right.
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2214
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:10:00 -
[190] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:I read Somer's proposal text in full (linked on his site) and if you do, it's pretty obvious IMO that the wording and order of given information is intentionally misleading. Furthermore the claimed intention (provide a service to players to ease in game PLEX selling) makes no business sense in combination with a negative ISK fee unless you include the real money part.
BUT what if the scheme is altered to give out the Jita sell price -1 Mio in fees for the service? Then it would become RMT with a bad exchange rate. |
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
563
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:11:00 -
[191] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented. Buying PLEX for 50m over sell orders sounds a lot like the "extra ISK" you might give to an RMT peddler for the "convenience" of their home delivery of one trit. Also sounds a lot like the "extra ISK" the proposal specifically promises not to offer.
That's where it gets clever - there is no "extra isk" for buying the Plex. The "extra isk" appears when you sell that Plex back to them. The order its all mentioned is there to imply the "no extra isk" carries throughout the entirety of the transection, when the wording specifically limits it to only the first part, leaving them free to crap all over the spirit of the words in the second part, and allowing them to feign ignorance and claim never to have misled anyone by the use of "best possible price" later on to imply of course you would get the "best possible". It is highly heavy on the technicality, and therefore slimy as all hell wording.
|
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
541
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:15:00 -
[192] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:How many eve players are there?
CCP now into 2nd day of investigations to pander to 50 -60 butthurt whiners on this subject.
Ya'll need to get a life.
Who is getting hurt here? how many have and continue to benefit from Somer's donations and sponsorship?
Band waggon jumpers the lot of you
Hello, alt of Somer. Please go away. |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
286
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:22:00 -
[193] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Dilligafmofo wrote:How many eve players are there?
CCP now into 2nd day of investigations to pander to 50 -60 butthurt whiners on this subject.
Ya'll need to get a life.
Who is getting hurt here? how many have and continue to benefit from Somer's donations and sponsorship?
Band waggon jumpers the lot of you Hello, alt of Somer. Please go away.
lol, I wish mate |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23950
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:26:00 -
[194] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Buying PLEX for 50m over sell orders sounds a lot like the "extra ISK" you might give to an RMT peddler for the "convenience" of their home delivery of one trit. Also sounds a lot like the "extra ISK" the proposal specifically promises not to offer. That's where it gets clever - there is no "extra isk" for buying the Plex. The "extra isk" appears when you sell that Plex back to them. The order it is all mentioned is there to imply the "no extra isk" carries throughout the entirety of the transaction, when the wording specifically limits it to only the first part, leaving them free to crap all over the spirit of the words in the second part, and allowing them to feign ignorance and claim never to have misled anyone, since their use of "best possible price" later for the by-back signifies that of course you would get the "best possible", which by definition is "more than anyone else anywhere" (ie: the market) will give you. It is highly heavy on the technicality, and therefore slimy as all hell wording. I know Skilling is still locked up tight, but Andy Fastow has been let out by now, right? Because that would explain a lotGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
staley johnson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:26:00 -
[195] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:How many eve players are there?
CCP now into 2nd day of investigations to pander to 50 -60 butthurt whiners on this subject.
Ya'll need to get a life.
Who is getting hurt here? how many have and continue to benefit from Somer's donations and sponsorship?
Band waggon jumpers the lot of you
It'a hard to read this post without imagining the sound of banjos in the background. Part of the reason I stopped playing so much is because of the original blink gate. If this arrangement is sanctioned by CCP (which it likely is) it highlights another case of terrible corporate decision making. I'll be here with my bag of popcorn waiting for an RMT ban to never arrive |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:26:00 -
[196] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:I read Somer's proposal text in full (linked on his site) and if you do, it's pretty obvious IMO that the wording and order of given information is intentionally misleading. Furthermore the claimed intention (provide a service to players to ease in game PLEX selling) makes no business sense in combination with a negative ISK fee unless you include the real money part.
BUT what if the scheme is altered to give out the Jita sell price -1 Mio in fees for the service? Then it would become RMT with a bad exchange rate. Somer is the receiver of the real money hence it's actually a better rate for them. ... and the benefit looks still strong enough to encourage people to buy PLEX through their affiliation program. I'm my own NPC alt. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:28:00 -
[197] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:How many eve players are there?
CCP now into 2nd day of investigations to pander to 50 -60 butthurt whiners on this subject.
Ya'll need to get a life.
Who is getting hurt here? how many have and continue to benefit from Somer's donations and sponsorship?
Band waggon jumpers the lot of you
Are you insane or just trolling I don know but, I dont want any perosn to think hes above me in terms of EULA.
If RMT is not a go for CCP, and against the rules, then they should do it accordingly. Rules must be applied to everyone equally.
You asked "who is getting hurt here?" then you really did not understand the topic.
This is not related with someone getting money through eve.
This is all about CCP not making its rules to apply anyone. If we say this ok, then in future, they can accept "some" bots that they "favour", and after that maybe they can apply the EULA at their will.
When a day comes and you lost your ship becaose of server issue and when you petitioned, they can answer you " you are not favoured for us so we wont reimburse it even if its reason is our bad servers". Who will getting hurt then?
There is no difference. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1843
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:36:00 -
[198] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:How many eve players are there?
CCP now into 2nd day of investigations to pander to 50 -60 butthurt whiners on this subject.
Ya'll need to get a life.
Who is getting hurt here? how many have and continue to benefit from Somer's donations and sponsorship?
Band waggon jumpers the lot of you To be perfectly honest, I don't give a damn personally.
But...
I use and enjoy a great number of third party services; to name a few:
. Dotlan . Eve Search . Eve Offline . Eve Who . Eveboard . EFT . Evemon . Aura . zkillboard . eve-kill . battleclinic . fuzzwork . TMC (yes, even TMC) . Crossing Zebras
I'm very grateful to the dudes that develop and run all this stuff. I don't use Somer, but it's also fine with me that many people enjoy throwing ISK at that scam.
The point is, I can easily understand how some or all of these people might be a bit pissed if/when CCP's rules for making some money out of EVE-related services aren't clear and fair for all. So I'm simply throwing my voice in (fwiw, obviously) to support clear and fair rules for all third-party service providers. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5280
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:36:00 -
[199] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:That's where it gets clever - there is no "extra isk" for buying the Plex. The "extra isk" appears when you sell that Plex back to them. The order it is all mentioned is there to imply the "no extra isk" carries throughout the entirety of the transaction, when the wording specifically limits it to only the first part, leaving them free to crap all over the spirit of the words in the second part, and allowing them to feign ignorance and claim never to have misled anyone, since their use of "best possible price" later for the by-back signifies that of course you would get the "best possible", which by definition is "more than anyone else anywhere" (ie: the market) will give you.
It is highly heavy on the technicality, and therefore slimy as all hell wording.
I follow. That's some really great loophole writing right there.
I like how it specifies that they won't give "ISK or Blink credit" and then they go and invent a new currency that you can trade for ISK. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2214
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:46:00 -
[200] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:I read Somer's proposal text in full (linked on his site) and if you do, it's pretty obvious IMO that the wording and order of given information is intentionally misleading. Furthermore the claimed intention (provide a service to players to ease in game PLEX selling) makes no business sense in combination with a negative ISK fee unless you include the real money part.
BUT what if the scheme is altered to give out the Jita sell price -1 Mio in fees for the service? Then it would become RMT with a bad exchange rate. Somer is the receiver of the real money hence it's actually a better rate for them. ... and the benefit looks still strong enough to encourage people to buy PLEX through their affiliation program. Yes...and it would still be RMT, and thus not allowed by CCP rules. Or so I would have thought a few days ago, at any rate. |
|
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:49:00 -
[201] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
The point is, I can easily understand how some or all of these people might be a bit pissed if/when CCP's rules for making some money out of EVE-related services aren't clear and fair for all. So I'm simply throwing my voice in (fwiw, obviously) to support clear and fair rules for all third-party service providers.
Yes I agree with you but not only this. This game not only runs with the currency or pure money. This game not only has a symbiotic relationship with its resellers or third party service providers. This game runs with people who feels good with this game and trusts that being in here means they will be treated equally above the EULA.
Think a second what will happen when peope stops trusting CCP and feel unsafe, mistreated, or simply lets say being taken advantage of. Last time this happened, people get in rage and shoot down monuments in jita, they get all riot, that ends up with CCP getting in loss at the end of fiscal year.
I am not a walking wallet. and I deamnd euqality. These rigts come to me with EULA itself as it clearly states that everyone will be treated equally.
I only demand what is just and right. |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
287
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:51:00 -
[202] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:Dilligafmofo wrote:How many eve players are there?
CCP now into 2nd day of investigations to pander to 50 -60 butthurt whiners on this subject.
Ya'll need to get a life.
Who is getting hurt here? how many have and continue to benefit from Somer's donations and sponsorship?
Band waggon jumpers the lot of you Are you insane or just trolling I don know but, I dont want any perosn to think hes above me in terms of EULA. If RMT is not a go for CCP, and against the rules, then they should do it accordingly. Rules must be applied to everyone equally. You asked "who is getting hurt here?" then you really did not understand the topic. This is not related with someone getting money through eve. This is all about CCP not making its rules to apply anyone. If we say this ok, then in future, they can accept "some" bots that they "favour", and after that maybe they can apply the EULA at their will. When a day comes and you lost your ship becaose of server issue and when you petitioned, they can answer you " you are not favoured for us so we wont reimburse it even if its reason is our bad servers". Who will getting hurt then? There is no difference.
Equality? in Eve? are you real?
Server shut downs to save fleets? The Goon string puller mittani is making more RL cash from his website advertisements than I bet Somer ever could.
And yet people scream equality - are you awake? can you even smell those roses?
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11141
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:56:00 -
[203] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:Server shut downs to save fleets? The Goon string puller mittani is making more RL cash from his website advertisements than I bet Somer ever could. Even if that's true, and I don't know if it is or not, so what? How is that relevant at all? Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4115
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:58:00 -
[204] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:Equality? in Eve? are you real?
Server shut downs to save fleets? The Goon string puller mittani is making more RL cash from his website advertisements than I bet Somer ever could.
And yet people scream equality - are you awake? can you even smell those roses? Server shutdowns aren't really any form of inequality, as they are usually pretty unavoidable and some have been external. As for TMC, whats not equal about advertising on websites? There's nothing illegal about having paid advertising, nor is there anything CCP could say against it. And anyone can do it. Go ahead, make a website right now and chuck ads on it, you're free to do that whenever you wish. The problem isn't making cash, the problem is RMT. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1845
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:58:00 -
[205] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
The point is, I can easily understand how some or all of these people might be a bit pissed if/when CCP's rules for making some money out of EVE-related services aren't clear and fair for all. So I'm simply throwing my voice in (fwiw, obviously) to support clear and fair rules for all third-party service providers.
Yes I agree with you but not only this. This game not only runs with the currency or pure money. This game not only has a symbiotic relationship with its resellers or third party service providers. This game runs with people who feels good with this game and trusts that being in here means they will be treated equally above the EULA. Think a second what will happen when peope stops trusting CCP and feel unsafe, mistreated, or simply lets say being taken advantage of. Last time this happened, people get in rage and shoot down monuments in jita, they get all riot, that ends up with CCP getting in loss at the end of fiscal year. I am not a walking wallet. and I deamnd euqality. These rigts come to me with EULA itself as it clearly states that everyone will be treated equally. I only demand what is just and right. ^^ can't say I disagree with this either, but I'm probably just too cynical to really care.
But I do have the greatest respect for people that put their own time and resourcefulness in developing and maintaining quality services for the EVE community. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:59:00 -
[206] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:I read Somer's proposal text in full (linked on his site) and if you do, it's pretty obvious IMO that the wording and order of given information is intentionally misleading. Furthermore the claimed intention (provide a service to players to ease in game PLEX selling) makes no business sense in combination with a negative ISK fee unless you include the real money part.
BUT what if the scheme is altered to give out the Jita sell price -1 Mio in fees for the service? Then it would become RMT with a bad exchange rate. Somer is the receiver of the real money hence it's actually a better rate for them. ... and the benefit looks still strong enough to encourage people to buy PLEX through their affiliation program. Yes...and it would still be RMT, and thus not allowed by CCP rules. Or so I would have thought a few days ago, at any rate. Sure, but without a clear ISK-valued benefit for the consumer there would be not much difference anymore to any other 3rd party service being financed through CCP's affiliate program and player's ISK donations. I'm my own NPC alt. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
151
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 10:59:00 -
[207] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:If Somer are in the wrong, then I agree they should face the appropriate measures for bad behaviour. However, when I look down a street and see a swathe of pitchforks and torches, I only hope that whoever pissed them off gets away with it, regardless of what they've done, because that mindless crowd gives humanity a worse name than the perpetrator they are after. You basically bring the same argument you did in the old thread. Here is my answer to you from the last one in case you missed it: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4924350#post4924350
the Code ALWAYS wins |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
581
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:00:00 -
[208] - Quote
It's no doubt been pointed out numberous times: Marketting income from advertisements on a website is entirely different than offering in-game currency for out of game financial gain.
The Mittani, EN24 etc. offer opinions and insights on Eve in general, advertising is present on these pages as it is with all websites. They haven't out-right offered in-game currency in return for interacting with these advertisers as SB have.
This isn't a blurry line with subtle differences, it's Black and White. SomberBlink offered in-game currency in exchange for using there affiliated companies. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2221
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:10:00 -
[209] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Yes...and it would still be RMT, and thus not allowed by CCP rules. Or so I would have thought a few days ago, at any rate. Sure, but without a clear ISK-valued benefit for the consumer there would be not much difference anymore to any other 3rd party service being financed through CCP's affiliate program and player's ISK donations. You're missing the point. It is classified as RMT because SOMER is exchanging an in-game service (PLEX buying) for an out-of-game payment (using their referral link). This means they're trading in-game services for real-world currency which is the definition of RMT. |
Moonlord
Flying With Animals
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:24:00 -
[210] - Quote
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
I guess the rules doesnt apply to everyone as long as they are big enough. |
|
Viscis Breeze
No Vacancies
54
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:27:00 -
[211] - Quote
Reading the proposal this quote strikes me:
Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link.
This statement is clearly the exact opposite of what they are doing. Blink has tried to circumvent the problem by giving out PLEX credits which are directly redeemable for extra ISK than a PLEX is worth. I think someone at CCP had the wool pulled over their eyes by this extra step.
Edit: On a side note, I find it interesting that SOMER Blink is generally more transparent than CCP in its activities. Recruitment: http://bit.ly/1r4G5Pv Website: http://www.no-vacancies.net/ Channel: No Vacancies
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
151
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:27:00 -
[212] - Quote
Some people in this thread have serious issues focusing on the problem at hand.
This is not about SOMERs gambling service.
This is not about earning revenue with ads or other means outside of EVE who are completely isolated from the game.
This is not about PLEX which is indeed a form of CCP sanctioned RMT and is totally legit.
-
This is about SOMER incentivising their PLEX sells with ISK, which is in the end - and a lot of people have already explained why - illegal RMT outside of the normal PLEX mechanism.
Every other player in this game would face a permanent ban on the first offense, this are the rules. This is SOMERs second offense, they already got away the first time because of their good relationships with CCP. The "we asked a GM and it was OK" trick does not work and CCP have demonstrated this many times that they will turn on you anyway even if one GM said it was ok if it is an obvious breach of the EULA, at least for normal players that is.
CCP is of course free to do whatever they like with their game, but if they really go the way and favor one group of players over another this will have implications for the game. EVE is the only product they have that produces revenue and people purchase their PLEXes with or without SOMER Blink. It would be madness to risk this for an online casino a small part of the community uses.
-
On another note, I am impressed with CCP Falcons performance, he is really on top of this it seams and he really cares. For the first time in years (yes this is a new char) I feel the community is in good hands. the Code ALWAYS wins |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:28:00 -
[213] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Yes...and it would still be RMT, and thus not allowed by CCP rules. Or so I would have thought a few days ago, at any rate. Sure, but without a clear ISK-valued benefit for the consumer there would be not much difference anymore to any other 3rd party service being financed through CCP's affiliate program and player's ISK donations. You're missing the point. It is classified as RMT because SOMER is exchanging an in-game service (PLEX buying) for an out-of-game payment (using their referral link). This means they're trading in-game services for real-world currency which is the definition of RMT. So does for example Dotlan ...it's an valuable in-game service financed also through a GTC/PLEX buying link. Although, as I stated earlier, this is a more indirect connection it still generates real money from an in-game service. To be clear, I'm not defending Somer/Markee, but I would consider it a challenge to formulate clear rules which do not harm all the other presumably non-profit services. I'm my own NPC alt. |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:34:00 -
[214] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Yes...and it would still be RMT, and thus not allowed by CCP rules. Or so I would have thought a few days ago, at any rate. Sure, but without a clear ISK-valued benefit for the consumer there would be not much difference anymore to any other 3rd party service being financed through CCP's affiliate program and player's ISK donations. You're missing the point. It is classified as RMT because SOMER is exchanging an in-game service (PLEX buying) for an out-of-game payment (using their referral link). This means they're trading in-game services for real-world currency which is the definition of RMT. So does for example Dotlan ...it's an valuable in-game service financed also through a GTC/PLEX buying link. Although, as I stated earlier, this is a more indirect connection it still generates real money from an in-game service. To be clear, I'm not defending Somer/Markee, but I would consider it a challenge to formulate clear rules which do not harm all the other presumably non-profit services.
yes but dotlan does not give me isk for buying a plex through them.
Noone has a problem with 3rd party sites that serve the community earning some cash to help with server costs etc
what people are objecting to is that somer blink give isk as an inventive to use their plex buying service to generate real cash. Real Money Traded for isk |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2227
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:40:00 -
[215] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:You're missing the point. It is classified as RMT because SOMER is exchanging an in-game service (PLEX buying) for an out-of-game payment (using their referral link). This means they're trading in-game services for real-world currency which is the definition of RMT. So does for example Dotlan ...it's an valuable in-game service financed also through a GTC/PLEX buying link. Although, as I stated earlier, this is a more indirect connection it still generates real money from an in-game service. To be clear, I'm not defending Somer/Markee, but I would consider it a challenge to formulate clear rules which do not harm all the other presumably non-profit services. Again, you're missing the point. None of the services Dotlan provides are in return for clicking their link. Those referral links are not the problem, giving people isk for using them is. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2672
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:42:00 -
[216] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:So does for example Dotlan ...it's an valuable in-game service financed also through a GTC/PLEX buying link. Although, as I stated earlier, this is a more indirect connection it still generates real money from an in-game service.
Except buying PLEX from Dotlan doesn't give you any in-game item or currency if you choose to use their referral link. Yes, you can plan your travel more efficiently than you would just with use of in-game map but that's only because CCP prefers to have bunch of half-assed features in-game and let the 3rd parties implement better versions (vide Dotlan, various fitting tools, market analyzers, etc.).
Dotlan gets RL money for PLEX sales and probably quite nice amount of ISK donations in-game but one has nothing to do with the other. In case of SOMER's latest scheme buying PLEX with their referral link is connected to rewarding you for that with ISK. And it doesn't matter whether you take that offer or just sell PLEX on in-game market, the fact alone that SOMER makes that offer is proposition of participation in RMT. Which according to common knowledge is bannable offense to both sides of a deal. Invalid signature format |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10918
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 11:49:00 -
[217] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:Equality? in Eve? are you real?
Server shut downs to save fleets? The Goon string puller mittani is making more RL cash from his website advertisements than I bet Somer ever could.
And yet people scream equality - are you awake? can you even smell those roses?
Even if Mittens was pulling millions from his website every year (he's not, and if he was, he wouldn't be paying hobbyist writers with ISK, but professional writers with RL $$) it wouldn't be a problem because there are no "pay RL money, get ISK from us in return" transactions involved. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:11:00 -
[218] - Quote
EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited." |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
583
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:17:00 -
[219] - Quote
Andski wrote:Dilligafmofo wrote:Equality? in Eve? are you real?
Server shut downs to save fleets? The Goon string puller mittani is making more RL cash from his website advertisements than I bet Somer ever could.
And yet people scream equality - are you awake? can you even smell those roses?
Even if Mittens was pulling millions from his website every year (he's not, and if he was, he wouldn't be paying hobbyist writers with ISK, but professional writers with RL $$) it wouldn't be a problem because there are no "pay RL money, get ISK from us in return" transactions involved.
It's off-topic, but why wouldn't he pay them with isk? It's cheaper and has less legal ramifications for him: Essentially they are doing the work voluntarily (from a legal perspective). The instant he pays RL cash he becomes an employer. |
Ali Aras
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
725
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:29:00 -
[220] - Quote
CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
|
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1410
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:29:00 -
[221] - Quote
Whatever comes of the investigation, I will be contented if there are no free ships involved in the outcome. Personnel Division Director - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse-á CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
|
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2672
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:32:00 -
[222] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
VP of Sales, well well... Thick plottens... Invalid signature format |
Chera Frane
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:35:00 -
[223] - Quote
Kename Fin wrote: The mob is restless.
I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink.
I certainly was unaware of all these goings on and I am, at least, someone who frequents these forums from time to time. In my opinion most of the players will be more interested in surviving and making ISK honestly to be bothered by what is, apparently, going on here.
I seems to me that the only people really involved are CCP, the CSM, Somerblink and those unfortunate to have been bitten by this apparent scam.
"Trust no-one." is rightly the watchword of EVE so the question is; why have so many fallen for such a notorious swindle? If it seems to be too good to be true, then it almost certainly will be in EVE at least. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4341
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:40:00 -
[224] - Quote
Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11143
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:42:00 -
[225] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. Brilliant post. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
607
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:43:00 -
[226] - Quote
111010110 wrote:EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
I keep eating my popcorn and waiting for somer and his in IN GAME organization to fall under this. Let's not forget Someset mah is a player who runs a web site that pools a lot of isk. He has a business agreement with Markee Dragon not CCP. Somer set mah is sitting on a mountain of isk and wants to make some direct real life money off his in game charcter.
Just like a bot farmer collecting isk and selling it. Somerset mah is looking for a way to do this with CCP approval even if it is for a short period of time. The business responsibility CCP has is with Markee dragon not somer. Somerset is a player and should be viewed as one period not a third party business partner. If it can be proved he is getting paid by Markee dragon to use his isk in game as a mean of running a business and a form of RMTing then he is subjected to player type punishment.
The VP who treated Somer like a business failed. If you like to have some fun and since she is so open to players contacting her, don't shoot the monument in jita, instead shoot her a email. Fill up her inbox ask her you can give away isk and get a real life money kick back.
Well the issue here is a failure to use the community department and CSM once again. Hey let's stop being a development arm of CCP and focus on getting CCP to add you to the loop of "have to talk to before approving in game programs". Then after it hits your desk it can go to legal. Falcon Iam not sure they pay you enough.
|
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
404
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:44:00 -
[227] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
thats like saying I know whats going on I got a Secret but i cant tell you :) |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:45:00 -
[228] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
Falcon is a dedicated guy.
So when will the results declared to public? |
Pitchfork Vendor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:45:00 -
[229] - Quote
111010110 wrote:EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited." ^ This. If you need to send an email to the sales dept. to get approval for your schemes, your account is no longer non profit.
Pitchforks! Pitchforks! Get your pitchforks here! |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
134
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:46:00 -
[230] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
Very interesting, i just hope it doesn't end with input seeking from CCP. From your wording and tone some can assume CCP finally takes it serious and there will be consequences.
Anyway as i said in my opinion CCP has no other choice to shut SOMER down, making this scheme legitimate for everybody will kill EVE within a month because there is too much ISK floating around. Chera Frane: Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink.
Abrazzar: It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. |
|
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:48:00 -
[231] - Quote
111010110 wrote:EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
So TL;DR Somer and his co-operators have to be dealt with like all the other RMT'ers out there:
Permaban and taken out from all isk and assets.
There is no other option includes justice other than that. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10921
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:48:00 -
[232] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:It's off-topic, but why wouldn't he pay them with isk? It's cheaper and has less legal ramifications for him: Essentially they are doing the work voluntarily (from a legal perspective). The instant he pays RL cash he becomes an employer.
Again, this is if TMC was pulling ludicrous ad revenue, which it's not. If it was, he'd easily be able to pay a full-time staff writer or two and deal with the legal requirements involved. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10921
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:50:00 -
[233] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths.
just gonna drop that in my sig Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
134
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:55:00 -
[234] - Quote
Andski wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. just gonna drop that in my sig
Yeah, same thought here .....
Chera Frane: Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink.
Abrazzar: It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. |
KIllerJon
Snuff Box
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:55:00 -
[235] - Quote
Everyone wants a resolution ... Lots of people have ideas how it should be dealt with ... A player has made money through the player base using the structure of eve ... Ccp's Eula had an exploitable loophole ... Both should be addressed and rectified because it just shouldn't happen .... Personal opinion would be restrict markee+others to being purely ad based funding over time not per plex |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4248
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:57:00 -
[236] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths.
-slowclap-
This thread is done.
|
Wex Manchester
Snuff Box
61
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:08:00 -
[237] - Quote
Enough. Enough.
If RMT is an offense punishable by banning, and if this is RMT, then why is this still being discussed?
If it hasn't been done already, lock down the assets of the offenders, and get on with the bans. |
Talvorian Dex
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:13:00 -
[238] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Out of curiosity.
After all, as the queen once said . . . `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
I am not apologizing for CCP, just reminding some that this is not an instantaneous kind of thing. But some of you want to skip sentence, verdict, and leap straight to the execution(s) so anything I say to delay that must be stonewalling and sucking up to my masters.
I just want to hear from the real people, the people who involved that to explain what really happened. From The decision makers. Not from the people that just learned this 24 hour ago. There are people out there really know whats happenning in CCP. I want them to go out public and explain to me that, why some pople are treated differently than the others in this game when it comes to EULA? As legally both me and somer are subcribers. So both are bound to the EULA rules.
Kara, the people who know all work for CCP, and no one at CCP is going to risk their jobs (as they would be doing by speaking out about internal CCP problems) to inform a player community about something. It's just not gonna happen. I certainly wouldn't.
Let's give CCP time to sort this out. I very much believe that this might be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
And, hey, if people still feel strongly, they could always stop Blinking. THat'd be a way to teach... oh, hey, promo blink!
. . . I bet a bunch of you just opened up Somer's site and checked, regardless of your indignation. Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1847
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:19:00 -
[239] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote:I very much believe that this might be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. That usually means something's wrong with the head (the read-bearded fellow). Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
592
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:28:00 -
[240] - Quote
Somergate again. Somer did enough outside of the box for their own (rl) wallet, that system is based on (rl) capitalism. Their gambling system works like any other (rl) casino by exploiting poor gambling souls. Somer stepped out of the box cause he/they got greedy.
I am expecting a ban, because he is a player like all others who posted here and reading that thread without posting. Somer stumbled over his own greed. Now it's CCP's turn to act like they would with any other player doing RMT and Eve gets a better place (again).
|
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3397
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:30:00 -
[241] - Quote
If this mess goes another day, end of the week tops, without some precise wording from CCP, (and no, I don't mean Falcon saying " we are looking at it guys"), I would expect the cartels and any other organized group with a ton of free ISK cash flow will start making it public they are working on their own website tied into some plex seller affiliate.
Frankly, if CCP is going to tacitly sanction this by inaction, any group that has trillions of ISK lying around would be nuts not to do it.
I love the people who keep saying Eve is 'just a game". |
|
CCP Falcon
8036
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:30:00 -
[242] - Quote
Hello again <3
So, a second morning of speaking with people and moving forward on this. I've been tied up pretty much all morning, but now that I'm eating lunch I'll give a few answers to some of the questions in this thread.
Sion Kumitomo wrote:The community team rocks, thanks for all your hard work on this thus far and for the communication you've had with us on all this.
One question I have to ask though, was the community team consulted about this at all ahead of time?
Thanks for the support. You guys are amazing, and the CSM has proven that it is worth it's weight in gold after the flexibility and openness we've seen from you guys on this.
To answer your question, the community team was not aware of this until I was contacted by the CSM in the middle of the night on Sunday.
Ali Aras wrote:Thanks for the updates-- given the investigation, I assume we can conclude that the reports of this being 100% okay with CCP are greatly exaggerated?
And yeah. For me, at least, I just want the RMT lines to be clear-- I was there for this last year, it was ******, and it seems like it's something nobody wants to see happening again.
I think the community response to the emails that were released (without our authorization) answers this question perfectly
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Can I clean my hair with those?
Use L'orael, because you're worth it.
Remiel Pollard wrote:Let's keep it simple, shall we? I'm arguing against making assumptions and jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions. That's all. If you don't like that, then you probably won't like the outcome anyway, regardless of what it may be.
This is exactly why we're taking the time to investigate fully. No knee-jerk reactions, no rash decisions, no forum posts full of drama, we need to look at the problem first, which is what we're doing, then we'll make a direct, concise and informed decision.
Andski wrote:Lisa is with CCP legal, not with sales
As pointed out by others in this thread, Lisa is VP of Sales. She's not with our Legal department.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:This could have been dealt with in about an hour today. Hilmar, or some other delegate of CCP, types a statement in this thread stating that CCP has zero-tolerance for RMT, and any scheme to circumvent the EUALA and TOS will not be tolerated. THEN he can make the comment that CCP is dealing with their lawyers about this.
End of story. People would then know that they are coming down like an anvil on Somer-Blink. And if they did not hammer Somer, there will be zero ambiguity in the fact that CCP would then NOT consider this RMT and the floodgates are open for the cartels to do this, as well as anyone else with a ton of ISK, a web page and a affiliation with a plex seller.
Frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about. You also have no idea how deep we have to dig to investigate this, given the sheer number of transactions that this service generates.
If you'd like to rumor mill as usual, do it elsewhere, or be prepared to lose your ability to post on this forum.
Thatt Guy wrote:Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie) So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes. Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this.
This was not authorized by our legal department.
Thatt Guy wrote:BTW, why is it that if John Q. Player is suspected of anything, the account is banned pending an investigation. However this is the second time Somer has done this, yet no action has been taken?
This came to light late on Sunday evening. Investigating an individual can take a day or so, investigating this case given the sheer number of transactions that have occurred, and tracking exactly where everything is going, takes considerably more time. We're actively working on it.
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Are SOMERblink too big to fail?
For the sake of the game, I hope not.
No one is too big to fail in EVE Online.
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Had CCP dealt with this issue properly last year, there would be no need for this thread.
For what it's worth, I agree. There have been a lot of changes at CCP since then, and we're working toward fixing this situation.
Abrazzar wrote:It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths.
This is hands down the best post I've ever seen anyone make on these forums in the history of EVE.
KaRa DaVuT wrote:Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work. Falcon is a dedicated guy. So when will the results declared to public?
Yeah, we just had a meeting with the CSM and our VP of Sales. I feel that it's only fair to include your elected representatives in the conversation as we resolve this issue.
I have a further meeting with Legal, Sales, our Executive Producer and several others this afternoon so that we can hopefully work further toward a resolution.
That said, this whole situation is so massive that it's going to take a decent amount of time for us resolve it. Please be patient.
For what it's worth, I fully agree with community sentiment on this.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Ali Aras
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
727
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:31:00 -
[243] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work. Falcon is a dedicated guy. So when will the results declared to public? As it is said: edit, fck, beaten. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Talvorian Dex
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:34:00 -
[244] - Quote
Pitchfork Vendor wrote:111010110 wrote:EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited." ^ This. If you need to send an email to the sales dept. to get approval for your schemes, your account is no longer non profit.
Business is an interesting term. We all, to some extent, run a business in Eve. We all find ways of making isk, and ways of spending it. We watch our income statement (our "wallet") carefully to make sure we're in the black. What if we were doing so much volume that we had to hire more people to help us out, and we paid them? That's essentially what Somer's doing. Getting isk from a venture isn't a business; and I suspect the "business" restriction relates more to turning Eve into a viral marketer's dream (Imagine a sov entity called "Buy Coca-Cola's New Raspberry Coke"... not what CCP wants). Businesses that take in isk are not businesses in the real-world sense.
Now, they do capitalize on that traffic. Any ads on their website are ways of making money from Eve traffic, but not taking money out of the gameworld. TheMittani.com, for instance, receives ad revenue for every view, but that transactional relationship is this: a business pays TMC.com for every visitor who sees their ads, TMC.com puts out worthwhile content to maximize the number of those visits, and the visitors "pay" for that content by viewing the ads. How TMC.com gets the content is irrelevent; theMittani can pay his people in isk if he chooses - what's to prevent me from giving isk to a friend for the pleasure of his in-game company, or for any reason, for that matter? The isk is staying in the game; it goes from one player to another. The player providing the writing doesn't gain any money out of the deal, and the money given to the ad company doesn't interact with isk in any way. The money is acquired thorugh purely out-of-game reasons that players only interact with when they choose to leave a CCP-run site/server and interact with third-party media or resources. Nothing in Somer's in-game presence relates to any advertising company, and TMC.com is entirely out-of-game.
Keep in mind that RMT is about taking money away from CCP. All PLEX in the game originate from CCP. They allow third parties to sell plex in exchange for a commission. However, that monetary distribution is CCP's decision, not ours. CCP gets all the money they choose to get for those transactions; if they choose to give some of it up, that's fine; they're making about a 20% markup vs. subscription costs anyways already. But the choice is theirs. PLEX reduces the cost incurred players who buy PLEX on the market to 0 - and in so doing earns CCP more money than they would otherwise get if that PLEX buyer just paid his/her subscription fee; it doesn't return money to the players' hands in a net-positive fashion.
RMT, on the other hand, takes the process entirely out of CCP's hands, and it DOES return money to a player's hands. CCP doesn't get the extra cut out of a PLEX (PLEX cost minus subscription cost) and loses the ability to regulate and monitor it. It IS, in fact, stealing money from CCP. Naturally, they want to prevent this from happening in their game.
So, tl;dr:
1) "Business" Is a flexible term, and 2) Paying people in isk for generating Eve-related content isn't RMT, even if you use that content in an out-of-game setting to make real money through ad revenue. The ad revenue is dependent upon and enabled by a third-party site; the content could easily be distributed via forums or simply awful or reddit, as well. I, for instance, make no ad dollars for my blog, but I do still generate the content. 3) RMT has nothing to do with gameplay balance; it's solely assoicated with ensuring that CCP gets every bit of money due to them. That's fine; they're a business, after all.
The question at hand is really whether Somer is breaking any rules by choosing to pay above market rate for PLEX in order to win that referral commission. Also, are they able to pay out straight isk, or is the bonus exclusively in blink deposit credit? Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com |
Talvorian Dex
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:39:00 -
[245] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello again <3
So, a second morning of speaking with people and moving forward on this. I've been tied up pretty much all morning, but now that I'm eating lunch I'll give a few answers to some of the questions in this thread.
...
For what it's worth, I fully agree with community sentiment on this.
For the sake of scroll, I truncated, but I appreciate everything in this. Falcon, you're awesome, man. From a PR perspective, it's clear you're saying everything you can, and trying to be as frank as possible given an ongoing situation and a lack of clarity. Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
469
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:40:00 -
[246] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
well talk about someone who may well be in the thick of the controversy!
This is part of the email chain from Somer Blinks website, considered their defence.
Quote:Lisa Bell-Cabrera - [email protected]Apr 13 Hey Somer, Sorry I thought you were just kidding. I give you my written authorization by future of this email. If you think you need something more formal we can take your proposal or create a letter of understanding and have it signed by legal. LMK, Lisa Sent from my iPhone
The underlined bit is what you might want to focus on. However this is just a txt file on somers website, not concrete proof in any way.
CCPs VP of sales is Lisa Bell-Cabrera - http://i.imgur.com/dFszCOK.png?1 |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
853
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:46:00 -
[247] - Quote
And the scheme is inactive again on the SOMER site. Someone's probably bummed right now My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Ali Aras
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
727
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:47:00 -
[248] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:well talk about someone who may well be in the thick of the controversy!
This is part of the email chain from Somer Blinks website, considered their defence.
Yeah, I read those. Why do you think she was in the meeting? http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Handar Turiant
University of Caille Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:48:00 -
[249] - Quote
Is SomerBlink a singular EVE Player, or a business?
What did CCP gain, hypothetically, from this supposed favouritism?
If the CEO wants to give his kid a 7mil EHP 99% resist 10k/s frigate with 15 slots per rack and 50K DPS and have his writers create lore that an EVE capsuleer god has been mysteriously pooped out of the Nth dimension, so what? Would be kind of cool. Big fleet battle, suddenly the EVE Kraken God appears, and everyone runs for the hills. Like the sandworms in Dune 2 ;-)
Where does it say CCP cannot do whatever the hell they want? EULA's, as a rule, are about the licensor being protected, not the troglodytes who actually buy the product.
What I'm basically saying is: so what?
And please, hold the Ad Hominems with regards to my person when answering. Enough rage in this thread as is.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2676
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:48:00 -
[250] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:cool stuff but...
So... lying about CCP's approval to boost my RL sales AND involve players in my shady RMT shenanigans is ok but me saying I'm an alt of ... is bannable offense?
Well next time I expect to see on main page of SOMERblink a fully fledged letter from Hilmar addressed to "customers" of SOMER encouraging them to use SOMER's referral link due to excellence of service. Why stop at one-liner when you can just go gunk-ho?
Word.
*drops da mike next to tinfoil hat* Invalid signature format |
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3397
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:53:00 -
[251] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:cool stuff but... So... lying about CCP's approval to boost my RL sales AND involve players in my shady RMT shenanigans is ok but me saying I'm an alt of ... is bannable offense? Well next time I expect to see on main page of SOMERblink a fully fledged letter from Hilmar addressed to "customers" of SOMER encouraging them to use SOMER's referral link due to excellence of service. Why stop at one-liner when you can just go gunk-ho? Word. *drops da mike next to tinfoil hat*
Hey, look at the quote of mine that he embedded and then threatened me with a banhammer for. Not one shred of a rumour, but that is what the threat is for. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. |
Scrooge mcChumly
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:57:00 -
[252] - Quote
To quote a departed soul: "What Is Good For Somerset Mahm Is Good Enough For Me" (sadly the article is gone from the web, but still in my possession)
So yes: if they can everyone can; if we cannot, they cannot (and should be punished accordingly)
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Sarah Nahrnid
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:57:00 -
[253] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:well talk about someone who may well be in the thick of the controversy!
This is part of the email chain from Somer Blinks website, considered their defence.
Yeah, I read those. Why do you think she was in the meeting?
CCP Falcon wrote: KaRa DaVuT wrote: Ali Aras wrote: CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
Falcon is a dedicated guy.
So when will the results declared to public?
Yeah, we just had a meeting with the CSM and our VP of Sales. I feel that it's only fair to include your elected representatives in the conversation as we resolve this issue.
I have a further meeting with Legal, Sales, our Executive Producer and several others this afternoon so that we can hopefully work further toward a resolution.
That said, this whole situation is so massive that it's going to take a decent amount of time for us resolve it. Please be patient.
For what it's worth, I fully agree with community sentiment on this.
CCP Falcon wrote: Andski wrote: Lisa is with CCP legal, not with sales
As pointed out by others in this thread, Lisa is VP of Sales. She's not with our Legal department.
I think that sums it up?
Quoting system sucks |
Victor Andall
711
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:06:00 -
[254] - Quote
Did anyone else feel tingly when CCP Falcon told Dinsdale off? I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
37
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:10:00 -
[255] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello again <3 So, a second morning of speaking with people and moving forward on this. I've been tied up pretty much all morning, but now that I'm eating lunch I'll give a few answers to some of the questions in this thread. Sion Kumitomo wrote:The community team rocks, thanks for all your hard work on this thus far and for the communication you've had with us on all this.
One question I have to ask though, was the community team consulted about this at all ahead of time? Thanks for the support. You guys are amazing, and the CSM has proven that it is worth it's weight in gold after the flexibility and openness we've seen from you guys on this. To answer your question, the community team was not aware of this until I was contacted by the CSM in the middle of the night on Sunday.
Thanks heaps for your frankness on all of this.
And I do believe that with that we've pinpointed the problem. It also reinforces the points I made in my most recent TMC article, and it will be my suggestion going forward that community be more looped in and integrated into business-side decisions given the importance EVE's community plays in making EVE all it is. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:18:00 -
[256] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello again <3 So, a second morning of speaking with people and moving forward on this. I've been tied up pretty much all morning, but now that I'm eating lunch I'll give a few answers to some of the questions in this thread. KaRa DaVuT wrote:Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work. Falcon is a dedicated guy. So when will the results declared to public? Yeah, we just had a meeting with the CSM and our VP of Sales. I feel that it's only fair to include your elected representatives in the conversation as we resolve this issue. I have a further meeting with Legal, Sales, our Executive Producer and several others this afternoon so that we can hopefully work further toward a resolution. That said, this whole situation is so massive that it's going to take a decent amount of time for us resolve it. Please be patient. For what it's worth, I fully agree with community sentiment on this.
Well Thank you and ALI both for your responses. You were the least reasons that I believe this situation will solve for good.
Hope this thing will solve quick for the sake of the New Eden
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10923
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:18:00 -
[257] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote:The question at hand is really whether Somer is breaking any rules by choosing to pay above market rate for PLEX in order to win that referral commission. Also, are they able to pay out straight isk, or is the bonus exclusively in blink deposit credit?
Take the PLEX out of the equation. If I give you ISK (or any other reward that could potentially be exchanged for in-game value) in exchange for buying something through an Amazon affiliate link that I provide you, we are both, without question, in violation of the rules.
The entire thing with the PLEX/ETC just convolutes it, but it doesn't make it any less shady. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:20:00 -
[258] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:well talk about someone who may well be in the thick of the controversy!
This is part of the email chain from Somer Blinks website, considered their defence.
Yeah, I read those. Why do you think she was in the meeting?
Well I want to hear her response or wanted to see her face when all these things blew up
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RomeStar
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
504
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:21:00 -
[259] - Quote
If nobdy is banned for this then is it okay to RMT? Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Pitchfork Vendor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:26:00 -
[260] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:If nobdy is banned for this then is it okay to RMT? Banned? This is Somer Blink we're talking about. If they aren't given a few Ishukone scorpions for this I'd be surprised Pitchforks! Pitchforks! Get your pitchforks here! |
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KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:28:00 -
[261] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote:Pitchfork Vendor wrote:111010110 wrote:EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited." ^ This. If you need to send an email to the sales dept. to get approval for your schemes, your account is no longer non profit. So, tl;dr: 1) "Business" Is a flexible term, and 2) Paying people in isk for generating Eve-related content isn't RMT, even if you use that content in an out-of-game setting to make real money through ad revenue. The ad revenue is dependent upon and enabled by a third-party site; the content could easily be distributed via forums or simply awful or reddit, as well. I, for instance, make no ad dollars for my blog, but I do still generate the content. 3) RMT has nothing to do with gameplay balance; it's solely assoicated with ensuring that CCP gets every bit of money due to them. That's fine; they're a business, after all. The question at hand is really whether Somer is breaking any rules by choosing to pay above market rate for PLEX in order to win that referral commission. Also, are they able to pay out straight isk, or is the bonus exclusively in blink deposit credit?
Yes it is blurry in a legal term. But in legality, think simple. It works as action-reaction-cosequence chain.
So simply If you are using your account as part of a profit related with the out-of-game currency/-¦ngame currency trade, It can be count as Business. The term business means gaining a profit from a setup or an activity so, If you are gaining profit and it includes some Illegalites against the bigger rule structure where you are running your business (In this case it is the EVE and EULA is its set of rules ) then it is illegal.
I can understand your approach as you are really neutral to this. and I admire your dedication and poinf of view, hovewer I cannot simply ignore the fact of this thing as its Illegal in all levels.
We will see how much it goes deeper and its not the first time that we see thing like that, adn it seems not the last one.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10923
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:28:00 -
[262] - Quote
Also that e-mail chain is just disturbing. A player (Somerset Mahm is, first and foremost, a player) communicates with a CCP exec as if they are business partners. He may generate lots of ETC sales for CCP, but I don't see why that should open the door for regular personal communication with high-level management. Players who get scammed might also buy timecodes/PLEX to recover their losses, but I don't imagine that scammers have much direct communication with CCP execs.
I don't presume to make it my business how CCP interacts with its customers in any case, but regardless, that stinks to high heaven. Unless of course it was the result of a simple chain of escalation, or the VP of Sales basically is Sales Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:30:00 -
[263] - Quote
Andski wrote:Also that e-mail chain is just disturbing. A player (Somerset Mahm is, first and foremost, a player) communicates with a CCP exec as if they are business partners. He may generate lots of ETC sales for CCP, but I don't see why that should open the door for regular personal communication with high-level management.
I don't presume to make it my business how CCP interacts with its customers in any case, but regardless, that stinks to high heaven.
It also seems that, considering the tone it is not the first time they are mailing each other. mail. There seems to be a long-time connection between the two. Wonder how many things we did not even know about .
so yea, it stinks |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4116
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:30:00 -
[264] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Abrazzar wrote:It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. This is hands down the best post I've ever seen anyone make on these forums in the history of EVE. You say that, but this runs a close second:CCP Falcon wrote:Frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about. You also have no idea how deep we have to dig to investigate this, given the sheer number of transactions that this service generates.
If you'd like to rumor mill as usual, do it elsewhere, or be prepared to lose your ability to post on this forum.
On and Falcon... How come you can't quote until the end of time and I can't?!?! WANT MOAR QUOTES! The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10923
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:32:00 -
[265] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:On and Falcon... How come you can't quote until the end of time and I can't?!?! WANT MOAR QUOTES!
He should check his moderator privilege Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4251
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:39:00 -
[266] - Quote
Waiting for CCP to class this as 'Emergent Gameplay'. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2868
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:42:00 -
[267] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Hey, look at the quote of mine that he embedded and then threatened me with a banhammer for. Not one shred of a rumour, but that is what the threat is for. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Dinsdale, you are, as my daughter would say, a drama llama, and everyone knows it. Your "nullsec RMT cartel controls CCP" rumor mongering is exactly why Falcon took that line with you, and, to be fair, I wish they'd banned you from the forums a long time ago. You do nothing but sow discord on the forums, all in the name of (your version of) "the truth".
I don't blame Falcon for taking that stance with you, and if it were me, it would have been a much harsher one, to be quite ******* honest about it.
On the subject of Falcon's latest response: I, like many others, look forward to the resolution of this matter, and I greatly appreciate Falcon, and the CSM, and the others who are giving up their time and energy to resolve this situation.
But CCP needs to take note - Markee and Somer have already gotten a pass on these shenanigans once. if they get another pass, you will severely and forever damage your already tenuous credibility with your player base - we haven't forgotten monoclegate and "Greed is Good". CCP's mishandling of things of this nature is very nearly legendary.
Nothing could do more harm to Eve's long term survival than allowing RMT, except for showing favoritism to one particular group of RMTers and banning the rest of them. If they get a second pass, I actually don't see another mass Jita shooting - I see a mass of people throwing up their hands in disgust and quietly voting with their wallets to the detriment of the game as a whole.
Take the right step: Do unto Somer as you have done unto so many others, and hold him accountable for the shenanigans he has created. Also, I would chuck Markee off your allowed resellers list. As they say, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. Don't let it become a pattern. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
788
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:50:00 -
[268] - Quote
Handar Turiant wrote:Is SomerBlink a singular EVE Player, or a business?
What did CCP gain, hypothetically, from this supposed favouritism?
If the CEO wants to give his kid a 7mil EHP 99% resist 10k/s frigate with 15 slots per rack and 50K DPS and have his writers create lore that an EVE capsuleer god has been mysteriously pooped out of the Nth dimension, so what? Would be kind of cool. Big fleet battle, suddenly the EVE Kraken God appears, and everyone runs for the hills. Like the sandworms in Dune 2 ;-)
Where does it say CCP cannot do whatever the hell they want? EULA's, as a rule, are about the licensor being protected, not the troglodytes who actually buy the product.
What I'm basically saying is: so what?
And please, hold the Ad Hominems with regards to my person when answering. Enough rage in this thread as is.
A corpie of mine wrote:Somer Blink is converting ISK to real money by offering the incentive of higher prices for buying Plex from players who had previously clicked a link to buy Plex which allowed Somer to receive commission from that Plex sold.
If they simply offered to buy any Plex at higher than market orders then the argument loses water, but instead Somer is using their in game ISK to incentivize players to buy Plex from them, thereby increasing the volume of commissions Somer receives.
From a business point of view this is brilliant and if anyone has won Eve it's Somer, but the issue is they are the only entity currently allowed to do this by CCP and a normal player has no way to do the same operation with their personal ISK.
So if CCP wants to allow *any* entity in game with tonnes of ISK (can't imagine *WHO* that might be) to start making real dollars, yen, centavos or whatever off their game then they don't address this.
Somer went too far this time. Bob is the god of Wormholes.
That's all you need to know. |
|
CCP Falcon
8055
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:52:00 -
[269] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Hey, look at the quote of mine that he embedded and then threatened me with a banhammer for. Not one shred of a rumour, but that is what the threat is for. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Methinks thou doth need to refraineth from playing the trolleth, or thou willst experience le troubleth.
On more general terms, myself and CCP Leeloo just left a meeting with all the stakeholders in this situation, and I'm extremely satisfied with the discussion and it looks like we're working toward a good resolution.
We'll be speaking with the CSM again in about an hour or to fill them in.
I should have more for you guys later today.
Again, sorry for the length of time this is taking, but it's an extremely in depth investigation.
- F CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Mai Maid
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:53:00 -
[270] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:BTW, why is it that if John Q. Player is suspected of anything, the account is banned pending an investigation. However this is the second time Somer has done this, yet no action has been taken? This came to light late on Sunday evening. Investigating an individual can take a day or so, investigating this case given the sheer number of transactions that have occurred, and tracking exactly where everything is going, takes considerably more time. We're actively working on it.
That reply makes no sense, it doesn't answer the question at all?
If this gets the OK, it might be a good way to cash out though. |
|
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2870
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:56:00 -
[271] - Quote
Mai Maid wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:BTW, why is it that if John Q. Player is suspected of anything, the account is banned pending an investigation. However this is the second time Somer has done this, yet no action has been taken? This came to light late on Sunday evening. Investigating an individual can take a day or so, investigating this case given the sheer number of transactions that have occurred, and tracking exactly where everything is going, takes considerably more time. We're actively working on it. That reply makes no sense, it doesn't answer the question at all? If this gets the OK, it might be a good time to cash out though.
It does, though the answer isn't clear. Basically, the ban the account temporarily to stop the assets from moving around so they're easier to find if the transactions need to be reversed - it limits the amount of work the devs have to do on the back end.
In this instance, there's no real point to it, since the amount of work is exponentially larger due to the number of transaction already involved. I don't necessarily agree with the logic, but I do understand what Falcon is saying. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
|
CCP Falcon
8060
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:01:00 -
[272] - Quote
Mai Maid wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:BTW, why is it that if John Q. Player is suspected of anything, the account is banned pending an investigation. However this is the second time Somer has done this, yet no action has been taken? This came to light late on Sunday evening. Investigating an individual can take a day or so, investigating this case given the sheer number of transactions that have occurred, and tracking exactly where everything is going, takes considerably more time. We're actively working on it. That reply makes no sense, it doesn't answer the question at all? If this gets the OK, it might be a good way to cash out though.
From my original post:
CCP Falcon wrote: While some temporary action has been taken in order to keep a handle on the situation, any outcome of an investigation is still to be determined, and I canGÇÖt give any further information regarding the process while itGÇÖs ongoing.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
404
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:02:00 -
[273] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:cool stuff but... So... lying about CCP's approval to boost my RL sales AND involve players in my shady RMT shenanigans is ok but me saying I'm an alt of ... is bannable offense? Well next time I expect to see on main page of SOMERblink a fully fledged letter from Hilmar addressed to "customers" of SOMER encouraging them to use SOMER's referral link due to excellence of service. Why stop at one-liner when you can just go gunk-ho? Word. *drops da mike next to tinfoil hat* Hey, look at the quote of mine that he embedded and then threatened me with a banhammer for. Not one shred of a rumour, but that is what the threat is for. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Me thinks someone should watch their tongue before the FALCON swoops down and snatches it away. Like the worm it is. |
|
CCP Leeloo
C C P C C P Alliance
373
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:02:00 -
[274] - Quote
I'd just like to give a huge thank you to the CSM for their dedication to assisting in taking care of this.
They've been amazing through this, and have been willing to show up for all the scheduled meetings that we've had at short notice at ridiculous time with a very clear, constructive and unified voice on what should be done to fix this problem. This all during pretty much every member of the CSM working hard to prepare for the Summer Summit.
<3 them all.
Thanks also to all of you guys for your feedback, your comments, and sharing your feelings on this, as it's something the community team also feels very strongly about. <3 CCP Leeloo | CSM Coordinator | Russian Community Coordinator | @ccp_leeloo |
|
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
404
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:04:00 -
[275] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Hey, look at the quote of mine that he embedded and then threatened me with a banhammer for. Not one shred of a rumour, but that is what the threat is for. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Methinks thou doth need to refraineth from playing the trolleth, or thou willst experience le troubleth. On more general terms, myself and CCP Leeloo just left a meeting with all the stakeholders in this situation, and I'm extremely satisfied with the discussion and it looks like we're working toward a good resolution. We'll be speaking with the CSM again in about an hour or to fill them in. I should have more for you guys later today. Again, sorry for the length of time this is taking, but it's an extremely in depth investigation. - F
All Hail Falcon King of the Nerds.
Love you man
Us northeners need to stick it to the man from time to time :)
its in our DNA |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1198
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:04:00 -
[276] - Quote
Andski wrote:Also that e-mail chain is just disturbing. A player (Somerset Mahm is, first and foremost, a player) communicates with a CCP exec as if they are business partners. He may generate lots of ETC sales for CCP, but I don't see why that should open the door for regular personal communication with high-level management. Players who get scammed might also buy timecodes/PLEX to recover their losses, but I don't imagine that scammers have much direct communication with CCP execs.
[...]
I don't presume to make it my business how CCP interacts with its customers in any case, but regardless, that stinks to high heaven. Unless of course it was the result of a simple chain of escalation, or the VP of Sales basically is Sales.
That jumped out at me as well.
Not only that, but if Noizy is right about this, then we have a real problem:
The Nosy Gamer wrote: He became impatient with the speed with which the legal department was working and she gave her approval via email.
Nobody who is just playing the game is going to be "impatient with the speed with which the legal department was working." Nobody who is just playing the game is going to be impatient enough to badger the VP of Sales. Why would this be such an urgent thing unless there was more at stake than space money? This kind of badgering should send up HUGE red flags.
Never mind all the cozying up, which is frankly creepy. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Talvorian Dex
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:04:00 -
[277] - Quote
Pitchfork Vendor wrote:RomeStar wrote:If nobdy is banned for this then is it okay to RMT? Banned? This is Somer Blink we're talking about. If they aren't given a few Ishukone scorpions for this I'd be surprised
I tend not to care about sarcastic comments made by throwaway newbie corp characters created to hide the identity of the writer. Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20212
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:05:00 -
[278] - Quote
Seeing CCP Falcon kick our resident spewer of tinfoil into touch has made reading this entire damn thread worth it.
Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine and into the brain, where they ferment. They then migrate to your keyboard via your fingers. That's where shiptoasts come from.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Talvorian Dex
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:06:00 -
[279] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote: Yes it is blurry in a legal term. But in legality, think simple. It works as action-reaction-cosequence chain.
So simply If you are using your account as part of a profit related with the out-of-game currency/-¦ngame currency trade, It can be count as Business. The term business means gaining a profit from a setup or an activity so, If you are gaining profit and it includes some Illegalites against the bigger rule structure where you are running your business (In this case it is the EVE and EULA is its set of rules ) then it is illegal.
I can understand your approach as you are really neutral to this. and I admire your dedication and poinf of view, hovewer I cannot simply ignore the fact of this thing as its Illegal in all levels.
We will see how much it goes deeper and its not the first time that we see thing like that, adn it seems not the last one.
Fair point. However, I'd clarify one term you used. By "illegal" I think you mean "a violation of the policy". Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:06:00 -
[280] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Hey, look at the quote of mine that he embedded and then threatened me with a banhammer for. Not one shred of a rumour, but that is what the threat is for. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Methinks thou doth need to refraineth from playing the trolleth, or thou willst experience le troubleth. On more general terms, myself and CCP Leeloo just left a meeting with all the stakeholders in this situation, and I'm extremely satisfied with the discussion and it looks like we're working toward a good resolution. We'll be speaking with the CSM again in about an hour or to fill them in. I should have more for you guys later today. Again, sorry for the length of time this is taking, but it's an extremely in depth investigation. - F
Please be careful using the word "stakeholder" :P Before you know it folks will call other folks on sticking to what that means properly again :P
Sorry, I honestly could not resist that open door :-) (and no, that was no pun intended) :-)
Serious though, good approach from CM to the current situation, especially in light of the timeline since public awareness on the matter.
I don't envy Lisa though, this really is one of those cases where venture targets must always be held against the dynamic the venture sells. It is incredibly easy to fall into trenches like these, it is even easier to be tricked into that, when work prevents living and breathing what is sold. EVE's not a product, nor a service.
I'm sure the former economist's SQL experts can lend a hand, or it'll be a very tedious investigation. Maybe another eh, intervention, may be required, who knows ..
If I may offer one tip, CSM as just a feedback instrument is nice for channeling things when they get hectic, nice to cherry pick ideas and nice to funnel emotionally charged customer trends - but every time something like this happens and they can't really talk about what was said at what point as things unfold it diminishes the customer value of that instrument.
On a sales angle, let's be honest (and I'm sure Lisa will come to see this as well) it's reached a level where a choice has to be made on types of accounts. I'm not saying you should have business accounts (though I am sure folks will see many sides and points for & against it - but that is an argument of revenu), but the current EULA simply prohibits these matters by default.
There's no need to go into a revival of what can happen when monetary influence gets an in-game life. EVE has had its share of issues with that in the past. The only difference here is one of scale. Remove those already existing barriers, and you allow a trend of monetised influence on an in-game level on top of the revenue challenge that comes when third parties start competing for in-game reward mechanisms. I can imagine the headaches at marketing of trying to keep up with that kind of race >.< Honestly, you know how we players go for min/maxing overkill above & beyond. Taking chances with that has backfired each and every time. Kieron learned that lesson, Oveur learned it, just remember: we're batshit insane, individually and collectively.
Good luck. |
|
Pitchfork Vendor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:07:00 -
[281] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Mai Maid wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:BTW, why is it that if John Q. Player is suspected of anything, the account is banned pending an investigation. However this is the second time Somer has done this, yet no action has been taken? This came to light late on Sunday evening. Investigating an individual can take a day or so, investigating this case given the sheer number of transactions that have occurred, and tracking exactly where everything is going, takes considerably more time. We're actively working on it. That reply makes no sense, it doesn't answer the question at all? If this gets the OK, it might be a good way to cash out though. From my original post: CCP Falcon wrote: While some temporary action has been taken in order to keep a handle on the situation, any outcome of an investigation is still to be determined, and I canGÇÖt give any further information regarding the process while itGÇÖs ongoing. Me wonders if this "temporary action" is related to the reports by a Somer rep in their channel last night that Somerset Mahm is unable to connect to EVE? Pitchforks! Pitchforks! Get your pitchforks here! |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
592
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:08:00 -
[282] - Quote
CCP Leeloo wrote: They've been amazing through this, and have been willing to show up for all the scheduled meetings that we've had at short notice at ridiculous time with a very clear, constructive and unified voice on what should be done to fix this problem.
Stop all lotteries? Ban Somer? |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
63
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:13:00 -
[283] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Man, if only gambling was integrated with the game and players didn't need third party sites for it.
CCP won't do that, as there are specific laws/regulations/taxes/etc that cover gambling in most places in the world. As you can convert real money into credits to gamble, CCPs business is running a MMORPG - not an online casino.
Now third parties, like Somer Blink, who are encouraging people to buy credits to gamble, and actually running online casinos are responsible for making sure that they conform with laws/regulations/taxes/etc covering running an online casino.
|
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:15:00 -
[284] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie) So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes. Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this. This was not authorized by our legal department.
That is such an easy way out, isn't it Falcon? So apparently this was authorized by a VP position in CCP, but you simply refuse to man up and admit a mistake.
This tells me that if I personally were to communicate anything towards CCP and get an "OK, go ahead" from you, there is no way to know for sure if your internal communication will pass the information around. For me, this is the absolute worst that can happen, since I no longer have any trust whatsoever in anything CCP says.
If anything, this was a huge mistake on CCPs side and it should be seen as such, instead of the usual witchhunt you are actively promoting.
|
ISquishWorms
249
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:15:00 -
[285] - Quote
It seems to me that the rules are not being applied equally. GÇÿNo, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhhGÇÖ. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10924
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:16:00 -
[286] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Man, if only gambling was integrated with the game and players didn't need third party sites for it. CCP won't do that, as there are specific laws/regulations/taxes/etc that cover gambling in most places in the world. As you can convert real money into credits to gamble, CCPs business is running a MMORPG - not an online casino. Now third parties, like Somer Blink, who are encouraging people to buy credits to gamble, and actually running online casinos are responsible for making sure that they conform with laws/regulations/taxes/etc covering running an online casino.
I doubt they conform to the regulations for online casinos. I also doubt that those regulations have applied to them because there hasn't been a direct link between making a purchase and getting credits since their previous GTC bonus was shut down. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2679
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:19:00 -
[287] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote:Now third parties, like Somer Blink, who are encouraging people to buy credits to gamble, and actually running online casinos are responsible for making sure that they conform with laws/regulations/taxes/etc covering running an online casino.
Except you cannot pay RL money to SOMER and get blinks to play with. You pay them space money for pixel credits you can gamble with - there's no law to prohibit or control this since whole casino/lottery works with imaginary currency. Only thing law applies to is SOMER's income from PLEX referral link but I'm sure he has it nicely sorted as any responsible adult would do. Invalid signature format |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10924
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:21:00 -
[288] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:That is such an easy way out, isn't it Falcon? So apparently this was authorized by a VP position in CCP, but you simply refuse to man up and admit a mistake.
This tells me that if I personally were to communicate anything towards CCP and get an "OK, go ahead" from you, there is no way to know for sure if your internal communication will pass the information around. For me, this is the absolute worst that can happen, since I no longer have any trust whatsoever in anything CCP says.
If anything, this was a huge mistake on CCPs side and it should be seen as such, instead of the usual witchhunt you are actively promoting.
If CCP tell you "yes, you're allowed to do x" one day and change their minds later, it's well within their rights to do so. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:25:00 -
[289] - Quote
Andski wrote: If CCP tell you "yes, you're allowed to do x" one day and change their minds later, it's well within their rights to do so.
Of course it is. If CCP decides to ban your account because they don't like your face, it is also well within their rights - it is their game after all and there is nothing you could do against it.
What I am saying here is, the internal communication apparently did not work at all in this situation. CCP should admit the mistake and that's that. There is no need to blame anyone else but themselves.
|
NFain
Elysian. Orderly Misconduct
71
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:25:00 -
[290] - Quote
Honestly,
My biggest issue with this is there was an official response not to long ago about doing this. CCP is not the type of company to throw that aside so easily. I think Somer should be punished none the less. They knew exactly what they were doing and they knew exactly what happened last time.
You can't claim ignorance for something that's already happened to you.
Its exploitation of a known system with CCP response combined with RMT. Ban hammer is deserved. |
|
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:30:00 -
[291] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie) So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes. Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this. This was not authorized by our legal department. That is such an easy way out, isn't it Falcon? So apparently this was authorized by a VP position in CCP, but you simply refuse to man up and admit a mistake. This tells me that if I personally were to communicate anything towards CCP and get an "OK, go ahead" from you, there is no way to know for sure if your internal communication will pass the information around. For me, this is the absolute worst that can happen, since I no longer have any trust whatsoever in anything CCP says. If anything, this was a huge mistake on CCPs side and it should be seen as such, instead of the usual witchhunt you are actively promoting.
That mistakes were made is a no-brainer. But when you do not yet know where, and more particularly how, it is too early to simply throw out a blurb saying "k dudes we made a boo boo that's all folks".
Which is something CCP did in the past, and it tended to have more negative consequences than taking the time to figure things out and then coming out with a clear analysis, a good overview of what happened why and how followed by a well argumented verdict on what's to be done / what was done.
Nothing personal, but as strange as it may seem now that things are a little heated and hectic, it's actually a good thing. CCP have learned from the past in these regards. Keep in mind that until that moment of "coming out" there really isn't much you can do right, you can only walk an incredibly fine line of not doing wrong too badly.
After all, they're dealing with us. And EVE players are quite something.
Personally I hope they do take the time to figure this one out. Less even for what happened where (see my previous post), but much more so for balancing CCP's commercial interests here with that intrinsic uniqueness of EVE's own dynamic. I hate to use the term, but on an in-game level the current situation - if it becomes one of allowed and precedent as such (or even an excemption case) - can all too easily become one of that infamous "slippery slope".
That's something you can't risk stepping on, because players are batshit were it comes to taking things to the max. As individuals, and even more so as groups. Once upon a time - to name but one example , there are many - where people bought influence by means of affiliate RMT mechanisms. Within weeks it was the de facto modus operandi of that Alliance. Scant weeks later groups allied with that Alliance adopted the same mechanisms. I'm not even talking about how - with such a scheme as this being allowed - easy it would become for people to cash out on EVE and just leave. We've seen consequences of that as well over the years, there was a time where folks quit and sold their supers for 7 grand or x64's - even alliances and support mechanisms were traded that way. Back then the scale was limited. Fast forward to today though, where buy power has increased a Thousand fold, where vested interests are much more profound, where organisation of large groups requires means to sponsor low level entertainment to keep the plebs happy without harming the status quo.
Sure, things can easily take a life of their own here. So give them time to figure this one out, to dig back to past cases, to get input and discuss interests and then put matters on the table.
Kneejerking isn't a sport. It's what happens when you don't do it right.
|
Talvorian Dex
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:35:00 -
[292] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie) So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes. Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this. This was not authorized by our legal department. That is such an easy way out, isn't it Falcon? So apparently this was authorized by a VP position in CCP, but you simply refuse to man up and admit a mistake. This tells me that if I personally were to communicate anything towards CCP and get an "OK, go ahead" from you, there is no way to know for sure if your internal communication will pass the information around. For me, this is the absolute worst that can happen, since I no longer have any trust whatsoever in anything CCP says. If anything, this was a huge mistake on CCPs side and it should be seen as such, instead of the usual witchhunt you are actively promoting.
This is a good point. Please tell us more, based on your first-hand experience observing these conversations, your personal interactions with CCP staff members, and your minutes from attending these meetings. Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com |
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:39:00 -
[293] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote: This is a good point. Please tell us more, based on your first-hand experience observing these conversations, your personal interactions with CCP staff members, and your minutes from attending these meetings.
I can read what was written in the forums - you should look into that, it can be quite interesting.
|
Qalix
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
310
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:41:00 -
[294] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Trust me, neither CSM nor CCP is sitting back waiting for this to 'blow over'.
m That's what they said last year. Remember when they said they were going to provide direction about third party sites and blah blah blah. Whatever happened to that? |
Telerus Malix
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:43:00 -
[295] - Quote
I simply do not understand the implications of this, Why is it of any concern to what somber blink does for promotions?
500 billion isk they are giving out is already circulating in game, and somer has at least 30-40 trillion in just pure profits from a mathmatical stand point.
They run a tight ship, people aren't being scammed, so what concern is it if they give 10 people 50 billion?
CCP couldn't stop it if they wanted to.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10930
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:47:00 -
[296] - Quote
Telerus Malix wrote:I simply do not understand the implications of this, Why is it of any concern to what somber blink does for promotions?
Because when it violates the rules that us mere mortals play by, it is of concern.
Telerus Malix wrote:people aren't being scammed
You don't know that.
Telerus Malix wrote:CCP couldn't stop it if they wanted to.
Yes they could. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
702
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:47:00 -
[297] - Quote
Telerus Malix wrote:I simply do not understand the implications of this, Why is it of any concern to what somber blink does for promotions?
500 billion isk they are giving out is already circulating in game, and somer has at least 30-40 trillion in just pure profits from a mathmatical stand point.
They run a tight ship, people aren't being scammed, so what concern is it if they give 10 people 50 billion?
CCP couldn't stop it if they wanted to.
Somer has more isk than he can ever practically use, and is turning to what everyone who has more isk than they can use at least idly thinks of: RMT. And if Somer can do it, so can anyone else, and that's not a door you want opened. |
Pitchfork Vendor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:48:00 -
[298] - Quote
Telerus Malix wrote:I simply do not understand the implications of this, Why is it of any concern to what somber blink does for promotions?
500 billion isk they are giving out is already circulating in game, and somer has at least 30-40 trillion in just pure profits from a mathmatical stand point.
They run a tight ship, people aren't being scammed, so what concern is it if they give 10 people 50 billion?
CCP couldn't stop it if they wanted to.
Did you read the thread? It's not about Somer giving away isk. It's about them giving away isk for money. Pitchforks! Pitchforks! Get your pitchforks here! |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
92
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:01:00 -
[299] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Green Gambit wrote:Now third parties, like Somer Blink, who are encouraging people to buy credits to gamble, and actually running online casinos are responsible for making sure that they conform with laws/regulations/taxes/etc covering running an online casino.
Except you cannot pay RL money to SOMER and get blinks to play with. You pay them space money for pixel credits you can gamble with - there's no law to prohibit or control this since whole casino/lottery works with imaginary currency. Only thing law applies to is SOMER's income from PLEX referral link but I'm sure he has it nicely sorted as any responsible adult would do.
Actually :
- Somer get lots of ISK from running a gambling operation - Somer sells ISK for RL money (trying hard to disguise the fact, but still)
Connecting those two facts, Somer runs a gambling operation, which is heavily regulated about everywhere. There could well a lot worse coming to Somer than an in game ban... It only take a motivated prosecutor wanting to make a name for himself in whatever county he operates...
|
Csill Es
BN Corporation
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:02:00 -
[300] - Quote
From the Making Policies Clear: TOS and Third Party Policy thread: ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4855035#post4855035 )
"CCP Falcon wrote:
...... Trading your in game stuff or ISK for out of game currency or services is bad, and the GM Team will spank you.
We make exceptions for this, such as people paying for killboard hosting, or commissioning other players for forum signatures or artwork, because these are services that are directly related to EVE Online and are something that enriches both the game and community.
It's a solid rule, but CCP will always use our own judgement and discretion on a case by case basis, the same as with every other aspect of our policies. ....."
Not having well defined, consistently applied and - most important - transparent policies lead to a slippery slope. When policies are applied "case by case" combined with total lack of transparency, the outcome is always questionable. |
|
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
788
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:08:00 -
[301] - Quote
Love all the internet space lawyers. Bob is the god of Wormholes.
That's all you need to know. |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
801
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:09:00 -
[302] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:Turns out that CCP DID authorize this: http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt (unless this is a blatant lie) So now we're back to CCP allowing this to go on, but only for their special snowflakes. Don't worry Somer, I'm sure you get some more limited edition ships, or other goodies outta this. This was not authorized by our legal department. That is such an easy way out, isn't it Falcon? So apparently this was authorized by a VP position in CCP, but you simply refuse to man up and admit a mistake. This tells me that if I personally were to communicate anything towards CCP and get an "OK, go ahead" from you, there is no way to know for sure if your internal communication will pass the information around. For me, this is the absolute worst that can happen, since I no longer have any trust whatsoever in anything CCP says. If anything, this was a huge mistake on CCPs side and it should be seen as such, instead of the usual witchhunt you are actively promoting.
If you actually look at the document that was authorised, what Somer was doing and what Somer said they were doing were two very different things.
Should CCP have asked for definitive clarification of the details? Sure. Did CCP explicitly authorise what was happening? Hell no.
Fluffy Bunny Pic! |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5897
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:12:00 -
[303] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:This could have been dealt with in about an hour today. Hilmar, or some other delegate of CCP, types a statement in this thread stating that CCP has zero-tolerance for RMT, and any scheme to circumvent the EUALA and TOS will not be tolerated. THEN he can make the comment that CCP is dealing with their lawyers about this.
End of story. People would then know that they are coming down like an anvil on Somer-Blink. And if they did not hammer Somer, there will be zero ambiguity in the fact that CCP would then NOT consider this RMT and the floodgates are open for the cartels to do this, as well as anyone else with a ton of ISK, a web page and a affiliation with a plex seller. Frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about. You also have no idea how deep we have to dig to investigate this, given the sheer number of transactions that this service generates.
:iceburn: This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
148
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:12:00 -
[304] - Quote
Again with official posts regarding SOMERblink. How many times is CCP going to have a PR **** storm before they realize allowing SOMERblink to exist is not in the best interest of EVE Online, the playerbase, and CCP.
I think it's time CCP officially bans Somer, his lotteries, and any of his attempts at anything even remotely related to RMT.
If Somer wants to claim he needs money to maintain his "service," then let him earn it some other way than by converting his in-game earnings into the money necessary to operate his "service." His devoted customers, and all of this free advertising could make him plenty enough to support the upkeep of his server fees. The problem is that he's greedy, and he's attempting to turn his 'community service' into a private for profit business.
If he's claiming his income from these GTC partnerships, and that income far exceeds the overhead costs of running his service, then he has unofficially converted all of his related EVE Online accounts into accounts for the purpose of business and real world profit generation, which is officially against the EULA.
Any and all accounts related should be immediately temporarily banned, his "service" temporarily banned, and there should be an investigation into the amount of isk he has paid out to assist in his real world money generation, there should be an investigation into whether or not there are any businesses held by the actual person who owns the Somerset Mahm accounts, and whether or not those businesses are generating income from EVE Online activities.
I don't mind his lottery website, I've played it a few times and it's actually one of the best designed sites there is. But lets not hide behind the guise of a community service website. If he's generating real world income above operating costs of the service by way of advertising or even GTC partnerships, he's shaming himself, he's deceiving the community, and he's a poison to the game itself. TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:12:00 -
[305] - Quote
Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2490
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:12:00 -
[306] - Quote
I have a horrible feeling that there will be a, 'clarification of the rules going forward' and that no punishment will be meted out.
I hope I am wrong.
RMT = perma ban.
That is how it works, right?
This is not a signature. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5830
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:14:00 -
[307] - Quote
Caius Sivaris wrote:
Connecting those two facts, Somer runs a gambling operation, which is heavily regulated about everywhere. There could well a lot worse coming to Somer than an in game ban... It only take a motivated prosecutor wanting to make a name for himself in whatever county he operates...
I'd love to see that trial. The state vs gambling pixels for pixels player group. Though if it was my country I'd be a little upset at the waste of taxpayer money on such a farce.
You people really need to ease up. Most of you don't seem to even know why you should be angry. You just like raging and make up stuff to get noticed on the forum.
I see about six people that actually understand what Somer is doing. The rest of you just make me laugh.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
93
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:20:00 -
[308] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Caius Sivaris wrote:
Connecting those two facts, Somer runs a gambling operation, which is heavily regulated about everywhere. There could well a lot worse coming to Somer than an in game ban... It only take a motivated prosecutor wanting to make a name for himself in whatever county he operates...
I'd love to see that trial. The state vs gambling pixels for pixels player group. Though if it was my country I'd be a little upset at the waste of taxpayer money on such a farce.
You may not take it seriously, but as soon as RL money is involved, the taxman does. And he takes a dim view of loopholes used to run an unregulated (read, untaxed) operation. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10934
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:24:00 -
[309] - Quote
Caius Sivaris wrote:You may not take it seriously, but as soon as RL money is involved, the taxman does. And he takes a dim view of loopholes used to run an unregulated (read, untaxed) operation.
markee dragon withholds affiliate payments past $600 in a year if he doesn't have a W-9 on file, and at the end of the year he sends affiliates making more than $600 from the program a 1099-MISC
stop looking for things that simply aren't the case Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Prince Kobol
2064
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:29:00 -
[310] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:You people really need to ease up. Most of you don't seem to even know why you should be angry. You just like raging and make up stuff to get noticed on the forum. I see about six people that actually understand what Somer is doing. The rest of you just make me laugh. Mr Epeen
Would that be that Somer came up with a great idea to increase his income via referrals to Markee Dragon by using an isk base incentive and actually got CCP to agree with it.
Again I find no fault with Somer. The fault lies 100% with CCP for accepting his idea.
You may hate Somer, many people here do and still think he has done wrong when he hasn't as he has not deviated from the agreement with CCP.
The plain fact of the matter is that CCP should of said no but they didn't.
Also am I to believe at no pont did anybody from legal speak to any dev for advice regarding this, I would find that very hard to believe.
Yes I believe Somers scheme is wrong but if CCP did not give it the okay then we would not be here now talking about it |
|
Green Gambit
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
63
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:30:00 -
[311] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Except you cannot pay RL money to SOMER and get blinks to play with. You pay them space money for pixel credits you can gamble with - there's no law to prohibit or control this since whole casino/lottery works with imaginary currency. Only thing law applies to is SOMER's income from PLEX referral link but I'm sure he has it nicely sorted as any responsible adult would do.
That's interesting, because there's a document on the Somer Blink site here: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf that states:
Quote:A large proportion of people who play Blink buy ETC so they can use some of that ISK to gamble.
So yeah, people are turning real-life money into credits to gamble with - at least according to the people who run the site - and they're in the best position to know that. And it's pretty common for real life money to be turned into credits or ships or something else to actually gamble with.
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3678
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:30:00 -
[312] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread?
Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
TheButcherPete
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
478
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:31:00 -
[313] - Quote
I'm so thoroughly sick of this.
I've been an advocate for this game, and fought hard to keep my friends playing.
Not only have I ceased this, as EVE isn't even exciting me anymore, but I may quit aswell if CCP does anything less than curbstomp the **** out of Blink for its transgressions.
I mean, wtf CCP. You made them stop last time, but then gave them IWS hulls, and then the special edition Stratios too. Blink members and employees have only ever gotten these without buying them.
I refuse to fight every battle for you CCP, especially when you dig your own hole deeper every turn you get.
In closing, I'd like to say that this deal with Somer, if legit, is going to hurt your bottom line more than it will help.
WAKE UP, CCP, ALL OF YOU. THE KING OF EVE RADIO
If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs? |
Prince Kobol
2064
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:32:00 -
[314] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.
Which means all they can do is tell each other how awesome they are.
Great isn't it Gÿ¦ |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2682
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:34:00 -
[315] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote:That's interesting, because there's a document on the Somer Blink site here: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf that states: Quote:A large proportion of people who play Blink buy ETC so they can use some of that ISK to gamble. So yeah, people are turning real-life money into credits to gamble with - at least according to the people who run the site - and they're in the best position to know that. And it's pretty common for real life money to be turned into credits or ships or something else to actually gamble with.
People are using RL money to buy PLEX. They CAN sell PLEX and use ISK to buy credits to gamble at SOMER's site but they also can chose not to do that. Buying PLEX from SOMER doesn't automatically grant you credits to gamble. Not anymore at least. Invalid signature format |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
594
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:35:00 -
[316] - Quote
CCP, I have a part time job in real-life. I am not rich, living in 70m-¦ flat with my wife who is actually unemployed.
However, I managed to be trillionaire in your genious game called EvE. Do I have your permission to flip some of my iskies to rl cash to buy a car or some cool stuff like Somer did? |
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
613
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:35:00 -
[317] - Quote
This is a thing again?
How surprising since SOMER basically posted on their site after the initial order to cease that they were looking for loopholes.
SOMER is an RMT scam, an RMT scam that has been showered with praise and gifts from CCP and now this backdoor shenanigans goes down.
We told CCP they needed to keep their hands out of SOMER last time - and apparently no one wants to listen. If this was approved by 'someone' that 'someone' needs to be fired this time.
|
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
272
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:36:00 -
[318] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:Again with official posts regarding SOMERblink. How many times is CCP going to have a PR **** storm before they realize allowing SOMERblink to exist is not in the best interest of EVE Online, the playerbase, and CCP.
I think it's time CCP officially bans Somer, his lotteries, and any of his attempts at anything even remotely related to RMT.
If Somer wants to claim he needs money to maintain his "service," then let him earn it some other way than by converting his in-game earnings into the money necessary to operate his "service." His devoted customers, and all of this free advertising could make him plenty enough to support the upkeep of his server fees. The problem is that he's greedy, and he's attempting to turn his 'community service' into a private for profit business.
If he's claiming his income from these GTC partnerships, and that income far exceeds the overhead costs of running his service, then he has unofficially converted all of his related EVE Online accounts into accounts for the purpose of business and real world profit generation, which is officially against the EULA.
Any and all accounts related should be immediately temporarily banned, his "service" temporarily banned, and there should be an investigation into the amount of isk he has paid out to assist in his real world money generation, there should be an investigation into whether or not there are any businesses held by the actual person who owns the Somerset Mahm accounts, and whether or not those businesses are generating income from EVE Online activities.
I don't mind his lottery website, I've played it a few times and it's actually one of the best designed sites there is. But lets not hide behind the guise of a community service website. If he's generating real world income above operating costs of the service by way of advertising or even GTC partnerships, he's shaming himself, he's deceiving the community, and he's a poison to the game itself. He is a weasel. Remember, when CCP gave him a bunch of iScorps, he advised the recepients to lay low and slowly sell them off using alts, etc, basically to manipulate the price by people thinking there was less supply. Also, as someone previously pointed out, this could be used to generate even more RMT profit in the future as well as helping corner the Plex market, as basically Somer is just paying for the Plex what they will cost in a month or two, and then he can go ahead and put them back up on market and resell them for what he paid or more and thus make back the isk bonuses he gives out. It's like generating free isk on top of the IRL cash kickback he gets. Then he goes and says this is some kind of 'community service'... lol.
I also love the part where he says something about 'some people sometimes use some of the isk from the Plex they buy to gamble'.... some!? You're preying on degenerate gambling addicts and you know it, don't give me this **** and bull about what people do with 'some' of their isk.
Try sticking around in their in-game channel and just idling for a while. The things said in the comfort of their echo chamber often show that he more or less views eve's playerbase as a bunch of dumb cattle and that the only thing he actually cares about regarding the community is how much money he can extract from them.
The wording on blink last time and this time around is hilarious, he makes it sound like the affiliate money is only to help pay for server costs, implying that he actually uses his own money maintaining the site and that the ETC sales only help out a bit. However, how I remember it someone calculated he had made over 100K USD off this as of the last scandal in 2013, and that was a very conservative figure. I also recall mention of business locations, data centers, etc., being purchased - someone on the forums here had done research into the real-life Somer, including looking at public records, and while I cannot verify the veracity of those claims, they were pretty damning if indeed true.
I view Somer as a con man, a parasite, and a crook. He operates a shady for-profit business which relies on gambling addictions to make him IRL money, and then he has the gall to try and make himself look like some sort of pillar of the community. Gambling addictions literally destroy lives yet this man claims to be doing the community a service. Any stuff he's done like funding events, etc., is done from a business standpoint, not because he actually cares about people. Case in point, I remember very well during the Plex for Good campaign he was kicking/banning people for discussing it in the Somer channel and for trying to help fundraise. He acted arrogantly, accusing them all of being scammers and just came across as a massive ****. He actively suppressed people trying to help. Then, at the 11th hour he comes out with this very loud and public donation of Plex... dude didn't really give a **** about people, he was just concerned with getting the glory for himself and trying to look like a good dude after the massive backlash to Somergate 2013.
Remember how after CCP deemed their previous *redacted* to be illegal, Somer basically spit in their face by cashing out at 1bil a pop for days after everyone else stopped? And now that he gets caught doing shady **** again, what is his response? A snarky and passive aggressive post on Blink which takes a shot at CCP. Way to treat with contempt those who show you favoritism... |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2683
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:38:00 -
[319] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.
Ah, NDA. Three letters keeping raging mob of RL psychos at bay. Invalid signature format |
POS Trader
Merchants of Lore
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:38:00 -
[320] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Man, if only gambling was integrated with the game and players didn't need third party sites for it. CCP won't do that, as there are specific laws/regulations/taxes/etc that cover gambling in most places in the world. As you can convert real money into credits to gamble, CCPs business is running a MMORPG - not an online casino. Now third parties, like Somer Blink, who are encouraging people to buy credits to gamble, and actually running online casinos are responsible for making sure that they conform with laws/regulations/taxes/etc covering running an online casino.
Yeah, all the regulations with fake funny-money that cannot be exhcanged for $$$. There is no laws that ban betting with imagine, no-value space pixels. If your country has those, then you are in more serious trouble than you think.
|
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10936
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:38:00 -
[321] - Quote
100k USD isn't going to buy you a datacenter bro Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:39:00 -
[322] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.
Then maybe work on getting that information released instead? Time is pretty damn critical here and wasn't that part of why the CSM even exists? To help get information to and from CCP?
I understand that there is a lot of transactions and so on to go through, but at the same time you (dev/cpp/csm, whomever) shouldn't need to go over them all to figure out if this was ok or not. Either it's ok or not, then you can find the affected parties. |
|
CCP Falcon
8072
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:39:00 -
[323] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it. Which means all they can do is tell each other how awesome they are. Great isn't it Gÿ¦
You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice.
I'll give them all the encouragement I can to continue to support both CCP and the Community the way that they are. That's what they're elected to do, and I'd like the people who voted them in to know they're being fairly represented.
If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple. CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
543
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:39:00 -
[324] - Quote
ISquishWorms wrote:It seems to me that the rules are not being applied equally.
Keep the pitchforks at bay until CCP has said their final word on this... |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
63
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:39:00 -
[325] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote: snipped
Anyway, my original point was simply that CCP doesn't want the overhead of running an online casino - which could be a complicated business to run for various reasons. But that doesn't stop a third party running an online casino, as long as they're happy to cover all the legalities required. |
Prince Kobol
2065
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:40:00 -
[326] - Quote
Ace Boogi wrote:
Somer is evil, Somer is ******, Somer us the most evil person in the world and eats babies blah blah blah
Yeah... no witch hunt here |
Sorao Soreen
Unnamed Account In The Bahamas
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:41:00 -
[327] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:ISquishWorms wrote:It seems to me that the rules are not being applied equally. Keep the pitchforks at bay until CCP has said their final word on this...
cant do that mine is our oiled and ready |
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
543
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:41:00 -
[328] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice.
They play EVE. They are used to alarmclock ops at odd hours and short notice...
The only thing missing is the FC that will chew on you if you miss an op / a meeting |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
63
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:45:00 -
[329] - Quote
Andski wrote:100k USD isn't going to buy you a datacenter bro
You don't need a datacentre, even if it needs 4 dedicated servers (and that would be pushing it in my opinion) 100k is enough to run the site for 20 years... |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10937
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:46:00 -
[330] - Quote
I was responding to this:
Ace Boogi wrote:The wording on blink last time and this time around is hilarious, he makes it sound like the affiliate money is only to help pay for server costs, implying that he actually uses his own money maintaining the site and that the ETC sales only help out a bit. However, how I remember it someone calculated he had made over 100K USD off this as of the last scandal in 2013, and that was a very conservative figure. I also recall mention of business locations, data centers, etc., being purchased - someone on the forums here had done research into the real-life Somer, including looking at public records, and while I cannot verify the veracity of those claims, they were pretty damning if indeed true.
Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
272
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:47:00 -
[331] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Ace Boogi wrote:
Somer is evil, Somer is ******, Somer us the most evil person in the world and eats babies blah blah blah
Yeah... no witch hunt here A witch hunt implies we're operating in a mob mentality, fueled by emotion alone, looking for a criminal when no crime was committed.
I don't think this is a witch hunt. Somer got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, yet again.
I'm simply pointing out what kind of person I've found him to be... and it isn't the altruistic service providet. |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:47:00 -
[332] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it. Which means all they can do is tell each other how awesome they are. Great isn't it Gÿ¦ You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice. I'll give them all the encouragement I can to continue to support both CCP and the Community the way that they are. That's what they're elected to do, and I'd like the people who voted them in to know they're being fairly represented. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple.
Is this the kind of attitude we can expect from the community manager going forward? Shouldn't the community manager at least to pretend to care about what the community thinks?
And I love how you opted to answer this among all the outstanding questions in this thread. You clearly have the communities best in mind.
Edit: The back pating post would be ok and well deserved. If there was any actual progress. |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
272
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:49:00 -
[333] - Quote
Andski wrote:I was responding to this: Ace Boogi wrote:The wording on blink last time and this time around is hilarious, he makes it sound like the affiliate money is only to help pay for server costs, implying that he actually uses his own money maintaining the site and that the ETC sales only help out a bit. However, how I remember it someone calculated he had made over 100K USD off this as of the last scandal in 2013, and that was a very conservative figure. I also recall mention of business locations, data centers, etc., being purchased - someone on the forums here had done research into the real-life Somer, including looking at public records, and while I cannot verify the veracity of those claims, they were pretty damning if indeed true. Well, the figures I remember from last year were actually in the 200k+ USD range, but I went with saying 100k as I couldn't be arsed to go back and look for the initial claims which are buried deep in the threads from last year if not deleted. Either way, they cannot be verified. It's just food for thought for those who want to say things like 'the affiliate money goes to help offset server costs'. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10937
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:49:00 -
[334] - Quote
they're limited in the information they can release right now Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
617
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:50:00 -
[335] - Quote
I personally love how a CCP VP thinks that it is good practice to give permission for this via email to someone at a '[email protected]' email address. I can only assume that CCP has a name and mailing address for the out of game entity on record (especially since they trusted them with cash value prizes last year).
As I pointed out last year, Somer doesn't do business except as his in game identity and this raises the whole operation into question. His website, unlike for instance Chribba's, is registered to an anonymous entity, and there are no contacts outside of the in game infrastructure. In other words - they are a purely in game entity and folks at CCP should not be giving them special permission to do anything - it's just plain bad business.
I do thank Falcon for a quick response this time - but there seems to be an endemic problem regarding what is and what is not appropriate interactions with what are basically in game entities. CCP's ability to remain unbiased adjudicators of their game is called into question when things like this happen.
And frankly, the fact that it stinks of Markee Dragon, yet again? I am not sure why they are allowed to continue to sell ETC's. How many attempts at supporting RMT does it take? |
Lauresh Thellere
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:51:00 -
[336] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it. Which means all they can do is tell each other how awesome they are. Great isn't it Gÿ¦ You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice. I'll give them all the encouragement I can to continue to support both CCP and the Community the way that they are. That's what they're elected to do, and I'd like the people who voted them in to know they're being fairly represented. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple. Is this the kind of attitude we can expect from the community manager going forward? Shouldn't the community manager at least to pretend to care about what the community thinks? And I love how you opted to answer this among all the outstanding questions in this thread. You clearly have the communities best in mind. Edit: The back pating post would be ok and well deserved. If there was any actual progress.
Sigh, I wrote this cool response about how you're being a **** to people who are exhausted from working their asses off the last day or two and have had little to no sleep but the forums ate it. |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:58:00 -
[337] - Quote
Lauresh Thellere, we can make a new thread where we thank them for their time. But this thread is to address the "Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink". :) |
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
618
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:02:00 -
[338] - Quote
Lauresh Thellere wrote: Sigh, I wrote this cool response about how you're being a **** to people who are exhausted from working their asses off the last day or two and have had little to no sleep but the forums ate it.
I will never support being a complete jerk to anyone - but the people who are working their asses off are only doing it because they didn't take appropriate action a year ago. So while they have my respect for their current work, you have to pardon some of us if we aren't exactly sympathetic. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2877
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:02:00 -
[339] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:
Is this the kind of attitude we can expect from the community manager going forward? Shouldn't the community manager at least to pretend to care about what the community thinks?
And I love how you opted to answer this among all the outstanding questions in this thread. You clearly have the communities best in mind.
Edit: The back pating post would be ok and well deserved. If there was any actual progress.
I'm not going to use a lot of flowery words to respond to this. I will say only this:
If you truly believe that Falcon isn't doing his best to represent us, then unsub and GTFO. You're being a jackass for no reason and attacking someone who is bending over backwards to try and get this sorted out. Stop being a douche canoe. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3812
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:02:00 -
[340] - Quote
loving falcon's realtalk
there are some in the thread talking badly of somer's motivations, and mike azariah asked on page eight 'what do you want to happen?', so here's an opinion
it would be possible, through the investigation and final decision on what action to take, to assume good intent on somer's part (or on the part of whoever was involved in creating this promotion). but i don't think somer should be given that credit. it's not plausible in my mind that this was anything but a deliberate attempt to work an isk->money trade, within the guidelines for gtc selling laid by ccp, and knowlingly against the spirit of those guidelines.
ofc this is almost certainly something everybody's already realised. but i'm going to give my opinion anyway because frankly my opinion is the most important and also i'm great |
|
Xtreem
PERPIDE Ineluctable.
206
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:04:00 -
[341] - Quote
The thing that strikes me about this, such a simple thing but i feel it speaks volumes.
Chribba, one of the most honest and free standing even players, giving mountains of time and free sites that we all use and known for being such an honest person spoke out about it, and EVEN sounded slightly jaded over it...
anything that gets to the point of this man speaking out about it is a very bad thing for eve as a whole.
I would like all people involved in any proven RMT actions having any assets involved removed, it would be hard to know who was in on the RMT if any happened due to its nature so i feel just removing the assets and being upfront on what was removed would be a step in the right directions. |
POS Trader
Merchants of Lore
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:06:00 -
[342] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:CCP, I have a part time job in real-life. I am not rich, living in 70m-¦ flat with my wife who is actually unemployed. However, I managed to be trillionaire in your genious game called EvE. Do I have your permission to flip some of my iskies to rl cash to buy a car or some cool stuff like Somer did?
Envy much?
Unless CCP stops ALL referral money, a business transaction, then this situation is unavoidable. SOMER does not directly exchange ISK -> $$$. What happens is he's incentivizing purchasing of PLEX through his referral program by paying more ISK for the PLEX than market price in Jita. This way he's losing ISK, and supposedly gaining *some* additional revenue. How much additional revenue? That's up to debate.
So, is CCP willing to cut off funding from Amazon because some people don't like SOMER making money from the same program? You can't cut off SOMER specifically - he could just say, buy this plex from Amazon with my referral link and I'll give you extra ISK for that. So, either cut them all off and CCP sells PLEX only directly, without any commission to anyone therefore losing business partners, or don't.
I'm in the camp where I don't really care either way. To me what SOMER is doing is nothing wrong. CCP is paying him $$$ for PLEX referrals and he is sucking in as much referrals as he can by incentivizing people that buy PLEXes, to use his referral links.
Therefore this boils down to envy. People that suffer from it, should deal with it.
PS. If you are spending so much time in EVE that you have trillions of ISK, perhaps spending more time away from EVE would allow you to get RL cash instead and you could buy said car or some other cool stuff like Somer did without spending all the time and other resources on a stupid imaginary money gambling site.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5830
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:07:00 -
[343] - Quote
I think the CSM concept is flawed and was implemented for all the wrong reasons.
That said, I'll not **** on the individuals that seem to be doing their level best to do what you all voted them into the CSM to do. If there's one thing the majority of the forum community is good at, it's shooting the messenger.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Lauresh Thellere
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:14:00 -
[344] - Quote
Argus Sorn wrote:Lauresh Thellere wrote: Sigh, I wrote this cool response about how you're being a **** to people who are exhausted from working their asses off the last day or two and have had little to no sleep but the forums ate it.
I will never support being a complete jerk to anyone - but the people who are working their asses off are only doing it because they didn't take appropriate action a year ago. So while they have my respect for their current work, you have to pardon some of us if we aren't exactly sympathetic.
This CSM wasn't elected a year ago. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
171
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:16:00 -
[345] - Quote
Lauresh Thellere wrote:Argus Sorn wrote:Lauresh Thellere wrote: Sigh, I wrote this cool response about how you're being a **** to people who are exhausted from working their asses off the last day or two and have had little to no sleep but the forums ate it.
I will never support being a complete jerk to anyone - but the people who are working their asses off are only doing it because they didn't take appropriate action a year ago. So while they have my respect for their current work, you have to pardon some of us if we aren't exactly sympathetic. This CSM wasn't elected a year ago.
Good thing the CSM has no say in what punishments Somer should have received a year ago. Especially given it's clear he's referring to CCP's actions. Reading comprehension yo. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1381
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:17:00 -
[346] - Quote
Lauresh Thellere wrote:
This CSM wasn't elected a year ago.
A few of us were and we have decent memories.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Le Petite More
Dropbears Anonymous Brave Collective
89
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:18:00 -
[347] - Quote
Bad CCP for not fixing this the first time. Please ban him. |
Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
168
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:20:00 -
[348] - Quote
The one thing I know that will happen is Falcon will sort this out, id put whisky on it twitter: @glasgowdunlop-á TDSIN Recruitment Director : Join 'TDSIN pub' Glasgow Meet Organiser
|
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:24:00 -
[349] - Quote
So on a more serious note. Do we have any estimates on when we might get to hear useful? Falcon?
Has there been any progress internally? I am not asking for details (all though they would be nice to have). Are the meetings moving forward or are you guys stuck? |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5902
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:24:00 -
[350] - Quote
Glasgow Dunlop wrote:The one thing I know that will happen is Falcon will sort this out, id put whisky on it
Yeah I hear that his investigative skills & ability to comprehend the information provided to make the correct decisions is unrivaled at CCP. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10937
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:26:00 -
[351] - Quote
POS Trader wrote:Unless CCP stops ALL referral money, a business transaction, then this situation is unavoidable. SOMER does not directly exchange ISK -> $$$. What happens is he's incentivizing purchasing of PLEX through his referral program by paying more ISK for the PLEX than market price in Jita. This way he's losing ISK, and supposedly gaining *some* additional revenue. How much additional revenue? That's up to debate.
buy this rock for $200 and i'll buy a piece of trit from you for 15 billion isk
that way i'm losing money this can't possibly be against the rules right Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
600
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:27:00 -
[352] - Quote
POS Trader wrote:Big Lynx wrote:CCP, I have a part time job in real-life. I am not rich, living in 70m-¦ flat with my wife who is actually unemployed. However, I managed to be trillionaire in your genious game called EvE. Do I have your permission to flip some of my iskies to rl cash to buy a car or some cool stuff like Somer did? Envy much?
My wealth is my health, my friends and my family . All other things are just pixels... |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
109
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:34:00 -
[353] - Quote
One thing that's been brought up a number of times in this thread is the whole paying ISK for content on themittani.com (or EN24 but TMC gets more attention).
Whether you want to define that as RMT or not is up to you. The important thing is that CCP says that practice --paying ISK for Eve-related content monetized by ads or such-- is officially allowed, and anyone can do it. I can start Klyith's Eve News dotcom and pay people isk for articles just like Mittani does. Someone from BNI could create Brave Newsbies and do the same. Mr. Pirhana could do Dinsdale's CCP Weather News (tagline: "where the sky is always falling!") and assuming he could find anyone to write articles, exchange isk for revenue. It's a level playing field.
The issue with Somer is that historically they were not treated equally. Somer has a isk-for-referrals program that operated for quite some time before people caused a ruckus last year, and CCP only stopped when other people started imitating it. I suspect that everyone in eve could create their own advertising-monetized Eve news & opinions websites and CCP would be fine with it. ;) |
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope Gallente Federation
457
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:37:00 -
[354] - Quote
I find it very telling that a VP of Sales would be in personal contact with a simple reseller. How the **** do you remove a signature? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5831
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:40:00 -
[355] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:I find it very telling that a VP of Sales would be in personal contact with a simple reseller.
I find it very telling that you have no idea how small this community is. Everyone who has been playing for a while knows everyone else and are often on a first name basis with them.
All the tin foil in here makes my teeth hurt.
ed ~ And Somer is anything but a 'simple reseller'. He's a major contributor to events large and small. From fanfest to EVE Vegas. Of course, the marketing dept would be very familiar with him.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
273
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:45:00 -
[356] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:I find it very telling that a VP of Sales would be in personal contact with a simple reseller. He isn't even the reseller, Markee is. Somer is basically just a player. It is very unsettling that he has these kinds of connections and personal relationships with CCP employees. He is supposed to be a pod pilot, not a business partner. Something something about it being against the EULA to operate an account for business purposes... |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:46:00 -
[357] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:I find it very telling that a VP of Sales would be in personal contact with a simple reseller. Nah, sales is always easy to reach. That's what they do, communicate and sell the game.
CCP allows resellers to run some types of limited promotions. For example, buy a ETC code from Reseller X and get a bonus code for a skinned Catalyst (look at all the Catalyst variants in the game, many of those are from that type of promotion). I assume their sales department is who handles those types of promotions.
Somer wording his PLEX buyback system as a "promotion" in the same vein as those normal events is what got him the official ok he was looking to cover his ass. It's pretty obviously in bad faith if you know the game, but as some CSM people have pointed out the sales and legal teams probably don't have a deep understanding of the game. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10942
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:47:00 -
[358] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:He's a major contributor to events large and small. From fanfest to EVE Vegas. Of course the marketing dept would be very familiar with him.]
tell us more about somer blink being a charity Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23950
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:47:00 -
[359] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:GǪbarfGǪ Frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about. You also have no idea how deep we have to dig to investigate this, given the sheer number of transactions that this service generates. If you'd like to rumor mill as usual, do it elsewhere, or be prepared to lose your ability to post on this forum. =ƒÆP
Abrazzar wrote:It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. Agh! I've had my sig for half a decade and now you come along and challenge it for sheer awesomeness? Decisions, decisionsGǪ
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Hey, look at the quote of mine that he embedded and then threatened me with a banhammer for. Not one shred of a rumour, but that is what the threat is for. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. It did not contain any rumours, just unfounded speculation about how things should be handled. He then warned you that your usual rumour-mongering GÇö you know, the usual nonsensical claims you spout about the inner workings of CCP GÇö would not be tolerated in this case. Now look at what you're doing in that last sentence of yoursGǪ
POS Trader wrote:Unless CCP stops ALL referral money, a business transaction, then this situation is unavoidable. SOMER does not directly exchange ISK -> $$$. What happens is he's incentivizing purchasing of PLEX through his referral program by paying more ISK for the PLEX than market price in Jita. This way he's losing ISK, and supposedly gaining *some* additional revenue. How much additional revenue? That's up to debate. There's no need to stop referral money. They just have to be very clear that you are not allowed to incentivise a real-life transaction of any kind with an in-game transaction of any kind (or vice versa).
And by GÇ£be very clearGÇ¥ I mean, GÇ£they have always been very clear so just shout it louder and don't accept any kind of silly work-aroundsGÇ¥. You are entirely free to do a transaction that involves 1 trit on one end and 1bn ISK on the other without any repercussions. You are also entirely free to engage in cash kickback schemes and ad revenue and whathaveyou to support the out-of-game efforts of other players, such as server hosting and bandwidth fees and the like. It's when you mix the two, when you use one as a quid-pro-quo for the other, that you dive headlong into the putrid ditch of RMT. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:50:00 -
[360] - Quote
Andski wrote:
tell us more about somer blink being a charity
He makes a profit, so he must be a criminal. Burn the witch!
Reading this forum makes one lose all hope in humanity..
|
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5831
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:50:00 -
[361] - Quote
Andski wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:He's a major contributor to events large and small. From fanfest to EVE Vegas. Of course the marketing dept would be very familiar with him.] tell us more about somer blink being a charity
You're doing fine in here already, Andski. No need to fall back on willfully misinterpreting posts for forum fame.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10942
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:52:00 -
[362] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:Andski wrote:
tell us more about somer blink being a charity
He makes a profit, so he must be a criminal. Burn the witch! Reading this forum makes one lose all hope in humanity..
if he wants to make a fat profit in isk that's all fine
if he wants to turn his fat profits into real money that's not fine Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23950
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:53:00 -
[363] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Andski wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:He's a major contributor to events large and small. From fanfest to EVE Vegas. Of course the marketing dept would be very familiar with him.] tell us more about somer blink being a charity You're doing fine in here already, Andski. No need to fall back on willfully misinterpreting posts for forum fame. He's simply referring to the pathetic excuses used last time to explain why Somer should get preferential treatment. You were hitting very close to home there, after all. Whether they will be dragged out and ridiculed this time as well is yet to be determined.
While it certainly explains the connection between player and exec (and really, in this size community this is hardly shocking GÇö just go to fanfest and buy them pallets-full of beer and you're in ), think of it as a preemptive GÇ£don't go thereGÇ¥ since some will very likely try to use it as an excuse once again. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:54:00 -
[364] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: a bunch of good points, showing he might have actually read the thread
Just FYI though, the torch and pitchfork are waiting in the hall closet for easy access. Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:55:00 -
[365] - Quote
Andski wrote:Edward Harris wrote:Andski wrote:
tell us more about somer blink being a charity
He makes a profit, so he must be a criminal. Burn the witch! Reading this forum makes one lose all hope in humanity.. if he wants to make a fat profit in isk that's all fine if he wants to turn his fat profits into real money that's not fine
A discussion is much better and easier to hold if you stick to your previous argument and try to make a point, instead of throwing in one non-related argument after another.. Think about what you want to say first, then discuss. This just makes you look like someone who enjoys throwing tomatoes at ppl. |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
610
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:56:00 -
[366] - Quote
Argus Sorn wrote:This is a thing again?
How surprising since SOMER basically posted on their site after the initial order to cease that they were looking for loopholes.
SOMER is an RMT scam, an RMT scam that has been showered with praise and gifts from CCP and now this backdoor shenanigans goes down.
We told CCP they needed to keep their hands out of SOMER last time - and apparently no one wants to listen. If this was approved by 'someone' that 'someone' needs to be fired this time.
There you are. The cool part is our educational program a year ago worked for the players. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10944
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:57:00 -
[367] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:A discussion is much better and easier to hold if you stick to your previous argument and try to make a point, instead of throwing in one non-related argument after another.. Think about what you want to say first, then discuss. This just makes you look like someone who enjoys throwing tomatoes at ppl.
a discussion is also a lot better when you don't try to put words in my mouth Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7694
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:57:00 -
[368] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it. Which means all they can do is tell each other how awesome they are. Great isn't it Gÿ¦ You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice. I'll give them all the encouragement I can to continue to support both CCP and the Community the way that they are. That's what they're elected to do, and I'd like the people who voted them in to know they're being fairly represented. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple.
That was CCP talk for **** off , trolls
|
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:01:00 -
[369] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it. Which means all they can do is tell each other how awesome they are. Great isn't it Gÿ¦ You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice. I'll give them all the encouragement I can to continue to support both CCP and the Community the way that they are. That's what they're elected to do, and I'd like the people who voted them in to know they're being fairly represented. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple. That was CCP talk for **** off , trolls
No thats CCP talk for "look over here while we try to spin this ****". |
NFain
Elysian. Orderly Misconduct
73
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:04:00 -
[370] - Quote
Tippia wrote: There's no need to stop referral money. They just have to be very clear that you are not allowed to incentivise a real-life transaction of any kind with an in-game transaction of any kind (or vice versa).
And by GÇ£be very clearGÇ¥ I mean, GÇ£they have always been very clear so just shout it louder and don't accept any kind of silly work-aroundsGÇ¥. You are entirely free to do a transaction that involves 1 trit on one end and 1bn ISK on the other without any repercussions. You are also entirely free to engage in cash kickback schemes and ad revenue and whathaveyou to support the out-of-game efforts of other players, such as server hosting and bandwidth fees and the like. It's when you mix the two, when you use one as a quid-pro-quo for the other, that you dive headlong into the putrid ditch of RMT.
I agree Tippia. However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop.
|
|
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
618
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:04:00 -
[371] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:loving falcon's realtalk
there are some in the thread talking badly of somer's motivations, and mike azariah asked on page eight 'what do you want to happen?', so here's an opinion
it would be possible, through the investigation and final decision on what action to take, to assume good intent on somer's part (or on the part of whoever was involved in creating this promotion). but i don't think somer should be given that credit. it's not plausible in my mind that this was anything but a deliberate attempt to work an isk->money trade, within the guidelines for gtc selling laid by ccp, and knowlingly against the spirit of those guidelines.
ofc this is almost certainly something everybody's already realised. but i'm going to give my opinion anyway because frankly my opinion is the most important and also i'm great
You are great - for putting it so.
Clearly Somer's intent was RMT. Otherwise, why require that you buy the ETC through Markee Dragon? All they did in reality, is replace SOMER credits with PLEX credits. It doesn't take a genius to see this. CCP needs a serious primer on conflict of interest issues.
It is obvious that no matter what happens, that SOMER and Markee Dragon, as they have implied they would do in various sources, will continually look for loopholes to get away with RMT - they should be banned from EVE and ETC sales respectively. |
Igor Nappi
Perkone Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:05:00 -
[372] - Quote
Whatever the result of the investigation is, I hope CCP exclusively hands Somer Blink limited edition ships or other in-game assets of value. Furthermore, I think that links must be removed from the game. |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
610
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:08:00 -
[373] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Lauresh Thellere wrote:
This CSM wasn't elected a year ago.
A few of us were and we have decent memories. m
Mike drunken recall does not count. As for your sober memory I will draw that into question. J/K |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5283
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:08:00 -
[374] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Glasgow Dunlop wrote:The one thing I know that will happen is Falcon will sort this out, id put whisky on it Yeah I hear that his investigative skills & ability to comprehend the information provided to make the correct decisions is unrivaled at CCP.
Damning Falcon with faint praise. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1381
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:13:00 -
[375] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:
Mike drunken recall does not count. As for your sober memory I will draw that into question. J/K
question all you want my sober memory. you may also want to interview unicorns and dragons. same chances of finding them
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23951
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:14:00 -
[376] - Quote
NFain wrote: However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop. Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
524
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:15:00 -
[377] - Quote
Tippia wrote:NFain wrote: However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop. Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling. Unless Somer is kicking back some profits within CCP...? |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
273
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:16:00 -
[378] - Quote
Argus Sorn wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:loving falcon's realtalk
there are some in the thread talking badly of somer's motivations, and mike azariah asked on page eight 'what do you want to happen?', so here's an opinion
it would be possible, through the investigation and final decision on what action to take, to assume good intent on somer's part (or on the part of whoever was involved in creating this promotion). but i don't think somer should be given that credit. it's not plausible in my mind that this was anything but a deliberate attempt to work an isk->money trade, within the guidelines for gtc selling laid by ccp, and knowlingly against the spirit of those guidelines.
ofc this is almost certainly something everybody's already realised. but i'm going to give my opinion anyway because frankly my opinion is the most important and also i'm great You are great - for putting it so. Clearly Somer's intent was RMT. Otherwise, why require that you buy the ETC through Markee Dragon? All they did in reality, is replace SOMER credits with PLEX credits. It doesn't take a genius to see this. CCP needs a serious primer on conflict of interest issues. It is obvious that no matter what happens, that SOMER and Markee Dragon, as they have said they would , will continually look for loopholes to get away with RMT - they should be banned from EVE and ETC sales respectively. Yep. After what happened last year, I don't believe Somer deserves the benefit of the doubt. It is very hard for me to look at this and find any angle where it is a legitimate service being provided and not an obvious attempt to loophole around the EULA. The 'business proposal' and emails just aren't good, in fact, rather than exonerating Somer they make him look more shady. The manipulative language in the proposal and then his badgering on getting it cleared with 'Legal' don't strike me as the actions of a service provider, but rather as the calculated steps of a businessman. And we know what the EULA has to say about using Eve for business purposes. In my opinion, this should be viewed as a *second strike* and dealt with accordingly. Somer already did this before and made it pretty clear what the true aim was with that 1bil bonus cashout fiasco last time. There was also clear premeditation, as Somer was basically saying 'don't worry, we'll find a loophole' during the last debacle when they were forced to stop. They should be punished as repeat offenders. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5287
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:17:00 -
[379] - Quote
Tippia wrote:NFain wrote: However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop. Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling.
To me it seems a lot like what I did when I was a kid and my mother said no to something. I asked my dad (or vice versa) in the hopes that they hadn't talked about it. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
143
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:18:00 -
[380] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Tippia wrote:NFain wrote: However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop. Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling. Unless Somer is kicking back some profits within CCP...?
I strongly advise you don't start throwing mud for fun. There's enough broo-ha already without starting wild new rumours. |
|
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:19:00 -
[381] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:Guttripper wrote:Tippia wrote:NFain wrote: However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop. Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling. Unless Somer is kicking back some profits within CCP...? I strongly advise you don't start throwing mud for fun. There's enough broo-ha already without starting wild new rumours.
CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything. |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
610
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:20:00 -
[382] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:
Mike drunken recall does not count. As for your sober memory I will draw that into question. J/K
question all you want my sober memory. you may also want to interview unicorns and dragons. same chances of finding them m
Mike drunken recall best recall. The eve gods saved me from being elected. Could you imagine me and you drunk sitting i n those meetings about SOMER.
BLACK; (YELLS) OFF WITH HIS HEAD.
Mike: Com down little buddy. Pour me a drink and lets talk this thru.
BLACK; Damit Mike some one has to die.
Mike: Your right but lets cut his balls off first and let him bleed. Then OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!!!
BLACK: Careful Mike ALI is listening shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23952
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:21:00 -
[383] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Tippia wrote:NFain wrote: However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop. Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling. To me it seems a lot like what I did when I was a kid and my mother said no to something. I asked my dad (or vice versa) in the hopes that they hadn't talked about it. That's a horribly apt description. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
273
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:21:00 -
[384] - Quote
I was happy that CCP Falcon said 'nobody is too big to fail in Eve'. If Somer falls, other competitive sites will emerge. If Markee falls, other ETC sellers will pick up the slack.
Somer doesn't actually offer anything of real value to the community, anybody can start their own casino.
Now lets just hope that Somer, if found guilty, is treated how other offenders would be. |
Lauresh Thellere
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:21:00 -
[385] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Lauresh Thellere wrote:Argus Sorn wrote:Lauresh Thellere wrote: Sigh, I wrote this cool response about how you're being a **** to people who are exhausted from working their asses off the last day or two and have had little to no sleep but the forums ate it.
I will never support being a complete jerk to anyone - but the people who are working their asses off are only doing it because they didn't take appropriate action a year ago. So while they have my respect for their current work, you have to pardon some of us if we aren't exactly sympathetic. This CSM wasn't elected a year ago. Good thing the CSM has no say in what punishments Somer should have received a year ago. Especially given it's clear he's referring to CCP's actions. Reading comprehension yo.
I'm well aware of what the poster meant but thanks for pointing out that my reading comprehension is poor simply because I chose to ignore an argument made that would start a pissing match. |
Karra Masamune
Intelligence Operation NetCorp Khaos Legion
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:22:00 -
[386] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it. Which means all they can do is tell each other how awesome they are. Great isn't it Gÿ¦ You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice. I'll give them all the encouragement I can to continue to support both CCP and the Community the way that they are. That's what they're elected to do, and I'd like the people who voted them in to know they're being fairly represented. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple.
Why credit them for something they wanted to do in first place? I mean sure it can be inconvenience to make time for something as unexpected as this, but isn't that a part of being CSM in first place?
As far as I understand being CSM ins't a privilege where you get cool title on forum, it's extra responsibility where you invest your time to make game better.
On subject on topic, if you can prove RMT people involved should be banned as that would normally happen. On other hand things like this take time and most games aren't patient so they will rage, troll and demand something to be done now. I just hope that we will get more then generic answer in lines of "Actions have been taken again people involved, bla bla bla" as this could impact on eve economy based on how many people are using somerblink. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
568
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:22:00 -
[387] - Quote
It looks like there's blood on the dancefloor again. |
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
143
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:24:00 -
[388] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote: CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything.
They have said a ton. They have let us know they are looking into it, and they have kept us informed. Within a few hours they will update us. Short of doing it all in front of a webcam there's not much more they could do to communicate.
Just let them sort it out, and they will tell us when they are ready. Your statement could not have been more wrong. |
POS Trader
Merchants of Lore
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:24:00 -
[389] - Quote
Andski wrote:POS Trader wrote:Unless CCP stops ALL referral money, a business transaction, then this situation is unavoidable. SOMER does not directly exchange ISK -> $$$. What happens is he's incentivizing purchasing of PLEX through his referral program by paying more ISK for the PLEX than market price in Jita. This way he's losing ISK, and supposedly gaining *some* additional revenue. How much additional revenue? That's up to debate.
buy this rock for $200 and i'll buy a piece of trit from you for 15 billion isk that way i'm losing money this can't possibly be against the rules right
He said, click the link and buy the PLEX from CCP (or some third party) and I'll give you some ISK for clicking my link. No rocks, or trit involved or some other useless intermediaries involved. No one pays him $$$ except the referral program.
As I said, either cancel ALL referrals (which obviously includes Amazon), or don't. And if you don't, then what SOMER does should not be against rules.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2494
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:26:00 -
[390] - Quote
If indeed it determined that it is a scam -RMT operation by SOMERBlink, at least it is worthy of Eve Online. This is not a signature. |
|
LT Alter
Ouroboros Research and Development
127
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:29:00 -
[391] - Quote
Honestly I'm quite pleased to see the constant and open talk from CCP and CSM, I hope this will continue even after this latest issue is fixed. Also, regardless of somer's motivation for doing this or if he thought it was right or not. Somer is at fault for not discussing it with CCP directly before going forward. There is no possible way he was oblivious to the fact that he was receving money for isk.
My opinion on the matter is that Somer should receive a substantial punishment for actively being a part of RMT activities, after all any other player who RMTs would be punished substantially. Though I hope the Somer Blink website remains active, not for anyone's benefit other than the communities though. However it obviously needs to be ensured no RMT can be practiced through the use of the website. |
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:29:00 -
[392] - Quote
I wonder if EVEBet has any action on the outcome of this |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1201
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:33:00 -
[393] - Quote
Tippia wrote:There's no need to stop referral money. They just have to be very clear that you are not allowed to incentivise a real-life transaction of any kind with an in-game transaction of any kind (or vice versa).
And by GÇ£be very clearGÇ¥ I mean, GÇ£they have always been very clear so just shout it louder and don't accept any kind of silly work-aroundsGÇ¥. You are entirely free to do a transaction that involves 1 trit on one end and 1bn ISK on the other without any repercussions. You are also entirely free to engage in cash kickback schemes and ad revenue and whathaveyou to support the out-of-game efforts of other players, such as server hosting and bandwidth fees and the like. It's when you mix the two, when you use one as a quid-pro-quo for the other, that you dive headlong into the putrid ditch of RMT.
I wonder how hard it would be to formalize this into a set of common arrangements which are OK: In-game remuneration for intellectual property derivative of CCP IP for use by in-game groups and services; publications or services accessible by anyone freely, but with optional or non-blocking revenue generators (ads, tip jars, affiliate links), that sort of thing. That way the common and legitimate cases are covered clearly, not as discretionary exceptions, and anything that isn't included at best requires review. Anyone getting impatient with the legal team should be held at arm's length; everyone knows that lawyers move at their own stately pace, and there's no good in-game reason to rush them, or (certainly!) to try to make an end run around them.
(I know my language is somewhat imprecise. This isn't my bailiwick. I am not, and I have never been, a lawyer.)
I am disinclined to any kind of mercy in no small part because of the wheedling and the barefaced attempt to pull the wool over the VP's eyes with that slippery sales pitch. That's not the way you treat anyone you respect. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Pitchfork Vendor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:34:00 -
[394] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:If indeed it determined that it is a scam -RMT operation by SOMERBlink, at least it is worthy of Eve Online. It's not scam-RMT. It's genuine RMT. Pitchforks! Pitchforks! Get your pitchforks here! |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:34:00 -
[395] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote: CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything.
They have said a ton. They have let us know they are looking into it, and they have kept us informed. Within a few hours they will update us. Short of doing it all in front of a webcam there's not much more they could do to communicate. Just let them sort it out, and they will tell us when they are ready. Your statement could not have been more wrong.
They have told us 2 things. That they are looking into it and "we had a meeting and we are now going to lunch". That is not keeping us up to date with any relevant information.
Do they see it as RMT? Was CCP's sales or legal team involved (in giving somer approval, not getting payed off that is too much tinfoilery)? They should not need to have meetings for days to figure those 2 out. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23952
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:37:00 -
[396] - Quote
POS Trader wrote:He said, click the link and buy the PLEX from CCP (or some third party) and I'll give you some ISK for clicking my link. No rocks, or trit involved or some other useless intermediaries involved. No one pays him $$$ except the referral program.
As I said, either cancel ALL referrals (which obviously includes Amazon), or don't. And if you don't, then what SOMER does should not be against rules. GǪand you're still missing the quid-pro-quo between in-game and out-of-game transactions. That is what sets Somer (and RMT in general) apart. It is why Somer is against the rules (and yes, I'm stating that emphatically without waiting for the result of the inquiry since we already know it is from last year's d+¬b+ócle).
It is also completely unrelated to the workings of referral kickbacks so cancelling referrals would be laughably wide of the target.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:37:00 -
[397] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?
How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread? Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.
With all my respect, instead of transparency If CCP acts this with NDA, then I have doubts of their trustworthness...
We will see. But thank you for your short info.
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
171
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:41:00 -
[398] - Quote
Lauresh Thellere wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Lauresh Thellere wrote:Argus Sorn wrote:Lauresh Thellere wrote: Sigh, I wrote this cool response about how you're being a **** to people who are exhausted from working their asses off the last day or two and have had little to no sleep but the forums ate it.
I will never support being a complete jerk to anyone - but the people who are working their asses off are only doing it because they didn't take appropriate action a year ago. So while they have my respect for their current work, you have to pardon some of us if we aren't exactly sympathetic. This CSM wasn't elected a year ago. Good thing the CSM has no say in what punishments Somer should have received a year ago. Especially given it's clear he's referring to CCP's actions. Reading comprehension yo. I'm well aware of what the poster meant but thanks for pointing out that my reading comprehension is poor simply because I chose to ignore an argument made that would start a pissing match.
Thank you for admitting you ignored what he said and made an inane comment unrelated to what he was saying. It takes an adult to do that. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:42:00 -
[399] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote:KaRa DaVuT wrote: Yes it is blurry in a legal term. But in legality, think simple. It works as action-reaction-cosequence chain.
So simply If you are using your account as part of a profit related with the out-of-game currency/-¦ngame currency trade, It can be count as Business. The term business means gaining a profit from a setup or an activity so, If you are gaining profit and it includes some Illegalites against the bigger rule structure where you are running your business (In this case it is the EVE and EULA is its set of rules ) then it is illegal.
I can understand your approach as you are really neutral to this. and I admire your dedication and poinf of view, hovewer I cannot simply ignore the fact of this thing as its Illegal in all levels.
We will see how much it goes deeper and its not the first time that we see thing like that, adn it seems not the last one.
Fair point. However, I'd clarify one term you used. By "illegal" I think you mean "a violation of the policy".
Yes. Thats the right word.
we will see what will happen in the long run. But based on the CCP's silence and the coming information, they will hurt themselves at the end of this....
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
171
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:45:00 -
[400] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:virm pasuul wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote: CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything.
They have said a ton. They have let us know they are looking into it, and they have kept us informed. Within a few hours they will update us. Short of doing it all in front of a webcam there's not much more they could do to communicate. Just let them sort it out, and they will tell us when they are ready. Your statement could not have been more wrong. They have told us 2 things. That they are looking into it and "we had a meeting and we are now going to lunch". That is not keeping us up to date with any relevant information. Do they see it as RMT? Was CCP's sales or legal team involved (in giving somer approval, not getting payed off that is too much tinfoilery)? They should not need to have meetings for days to figure those 2 out.
Generally, when doing an investigation, people wait until they have the full information before releasing it. A novel concept I know. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
144
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:48:00 -
[401] - Quote
I think he wants CSI CCP |
Ahshalon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:50:00 -
[402] - Quote
i believe right now ccp is in a "we have glued out manbits in a vice" situation. if they open the vice since they are glued it will rip their sack open, but if they close the vice they crush themselves. it's better to just leave the vice dangling there, everyone knows it's there, it's unsightly, but it's not doing as much damage as turning the crank either way will. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
153
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:50:00 -
[403] - Quote
Here's the old thread that discusses SOMERblink's potential earnings from the affiliate program last year, for anyone interested.
Easy to see after those earnings that anything of this magnitude is not being used to cover the costs of server maintenance, and is obvious RMT this time around. TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5288
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:51:00 -
[404] - Quote
Tippia wrote:That is what sets Somer (and RMT in general) apart. It is why Somer is against the rules (and yes, I'm stating that emphatically without waiting for the result of the inquiry since we already know it is from last year's d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ).
FTFY "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
276
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:53:00 -
[405] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:Here's the old thread that discusses SOMERblink's potential earnings from the affiliate program last year, for anyone interested. Easy to see after those earnings that anything of this magnitude is not being used to cover the costs of server maintenance, and is obvious RMT this time around. Thanks for digging that up.
135k through Shattered Star up to May 2013...
...helping pay a portion of server costs... lol |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
601
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:54:00 -
[406] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:I think he wants CSI CCP
thinking of intro music of CSI Miami. LELz xD |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23952
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:55:00 -
[407] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Tippia wrote:That is what sets Somer (and RMT in general) apart. It is why Somer is against the rules (and yes, I'm stating that emphatically without waiting for the result of the inquiry since we already know it is from last year's ß+榦-ꦪ¦¦-£-ó-óe¦¦-í-릦¦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+-ó-íß+禺¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ë-¥a-Ŧ+¦+¦í¦ñ-¥-à-àc¦ó¦í¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-ç-ƒ-ál¦+¦¢-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½¦Ç¦ü-Ö¦+¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦¦á¦ú¦ÿ-à).
FTFY *dope-slap* GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1851
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:59:00 -
[408] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:virm pasuul wrote:I think he wants CSI CCP thinking of intro music of CSI Miami. LELz xD 'Won't get fooled again' by The Who.
Let's hope we don't this time. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3818
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:59:00 -
[409] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Tippia wrote:That is what sets Somer (and RMT in general) apart. It is why Somer is against the rules (and yes, I'm stating that emphatically without waiting for the result of the inquiry since we already know it is from last year's d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ).
FTFY this is an outrage |
Corey Lean
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:59:00 -
[410] - Quote
There comes a point where you have so much isk it becomes meaningless, until you figure out a way to turn that isk into real life dollars and cents. Thats what happened to Somer. |
|
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8243
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:01:00 -
[411] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths.
Mother of god. Genius. ~hi~ |
Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
24
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:02:00 -
[412] - Quote
POS Trader wrote:Andski wrote:POS Trader wrote:Unless CCP stops ALL referral money, a business transaction, then this situation is unavoidable. SOMER does not directly exchange ISK -> $$$. What happens is he's incentivizing purchasing of PLEX through his referral program by paying more ISK for the PLEX than market price in Jita. This way he's losing ISK, and supposedly gaining *some* additional revenue. How much additional revenue? That's up to debate.
buy this rock for $200 and i'll buy a piece of trit from you for 15 billion isk that way i'm losing money this can't possibly be against the rules right He said, click the link and buy the PLEX from CCP (or some third party) and I'll give you some ISK for clicking my link. No rocks, or trit involved or some other useless intermediaries involved. No one pays him $$$ except the referral program. As I said, either cancel ALL referrals (which obviously includes Amazon), or don't. And if you don't, then what SOMER does should not be against rules.
Amazon isn't a referral, they are a third party retailer.
Amazon also doesn't have an account in EVE, and thus is not subject to the TOS and EULA; they are bound by their agreement as a third party retailer.
Many of the sites that use referral links also accept paypal donations. There is no doubt at all that providing anything in return for a paypal donation is a forbidden transaction. Why is it so hard to see, no matter how you paint it up or move it around under a shell, that any incentive in exchange for a donation through a referral link is no different. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
790
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:05:00 -
[413] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple. Is this the kind of attitude we can expect from the community manager going forward? Shouldn't the community manager at least to pretend to care about what the community thinks? And I love how you opted to answer this among all the outstanding questions in this thread. You clearly have the communities best in mind. Edit: The back pating post would be ok and well deserved. If there was any actual progress. I hope so - it would be a return to days of old when the Dev's told the whiny brats off every once in awhile.
I salute our non-**** taking overlords. Bob is the god of Wormholes.
That's all you need to know. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3819
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:06:00 -
[414] - Quote
Karra Masamune wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice. Why credit them for something they wanted to do in first place? I mean sure it can be inconvenience to make time for something as unexpected as this, but isn't that a part of being CSM in first place? As far as I understand being CSM ins't a privilege where you get cool title on forum, it's extra responsibility where you invest your time to make game better. credit is acknowledgement of work. csm's done exactly as you'd expect from the community group's description... good work is worthy of praise, and good work done for free is worthy of thanks |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
212
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:11:00 -
[415] - Quote
This is nothing more than 'money laundering' for Somerblink, I imagine they are sitting on enormous amounts of ISK through the trillions in transactions they put through there lottery site. For the handful of people to run sommerblink it has to be insane on trying to find things to spend that amount of isk on in eve. Even if the take on the gambling is small, house odds always win and small amounts will add up to huge amounts given time and volume.
If CCP allows this practice to continue, I think they are setting a precedent in saying 'its okay to RMT'. Senex Legio |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:12:00 -
[416] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple. Is this the kind of attitude we can expect from the community manager going forward? Shouldn't the community manager at least to pretend to care about what the community thinks? And I love how you opted to answer this among all the outstanding questions in this thread. You clearly have the communities best in mind. Edit: The back pating post would be ok and well deserved. If there was any actual progress. I hope so - it would be a return to days of old when the Dev's told the whiny brats off every once in awhile. I salute our non-**** taking overlords.
Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4122
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:15:00 -
[417] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. Customers like you probably should. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
iob ccuf azu
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:17:00 -
[418] - Quote
Im mad I dont have a plex selling website
How is it fair he can sell plex but no one else can because they dont have a website?
Maybe CCP can make him give his website to all EVE players then we can all split the profit and share it and slowly get rich together or they should ban him
somethingawful.com 4 life membership x 400 years forever |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
792
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:18:00 -
[419] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. Yeah, sometimes the customer *isn't* right.
Sometimes the customer is a whiny, entitled brat and needs to be told to stfu for awhile. Every once in awhile (as with Dinsdale's whining) it's a good idea to prune the tree of entitlement. Bob is the god of Wormholes.
That's all you need to know. |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:20:00 -
[420] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. Customers like you probably should.
Great input. |
|
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
146
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:21:00 -
[421] - Quote
Does anyone need quick instructions on how to block posts from him so they don't appear? Only 10 isk....... |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:26:00 -
[422] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. Yeah, sometimes the customer *isn't* right. Sometimes the customer is a whiny, entitled brat and needs to be told to stfu for awhile. Every once in awhile (as with Dinsdale's whining) it's a good idea to prune the tree of entitlement.
Never said the customer was right. I was stating that I don't agree that Falcons focus should be in patting CSM's back rather than focusing on figuring this somers bs out and Falcon came with attitude that isn't really fitting a community manager. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
89
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:26:00 -
[423] - Quote
CCP Leeloo wrote:I'd just like to give a huge thank you to the CSM for their dedication to assisting in taking care of this.
They've been amazing through this, and have been willing to show up for all the scheduled meetings that we've had at short notice at ridiculous time with a very clear, constructive and unified voice on what should be done to fix this problem. This all during pretty much every member of the CSM working hard to prepare for the Summer Summit.
<3 them all.
Thanks also to all of you guys for your feedback, your comments, and sharing your feelings on this, as it's something the community team also feels very strongly about. <3
First, your response to all of this has been fairly rapid and thank you for the time so many of you are putting in to resolve the issue. But...
I'm just wondering what exactly the community team feels very strongly about? What a player is accused of doing or all the various things that led to this being allowed to happen, even IF much of that may be related to internal communication and administration issues. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20224
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:27:00 -
[424] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input. Customers like you probably should. Great input. Lucas and I disagree on much, in this case he's bang on the money.
He managed to put more into this thread with 5 words than you have in multiple posts.
You being a customer of CCP is voluntary, if you don't like the service being offered you are free to stop paying for it and to take your business elsewhere.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
793
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:36:00 -
[425] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:Never said the customer was right. It was certainly implied.
Sketchy Bob wrote: I was stating that I don't agree that Falcons focus should be in patting CSM's back rather than focusing on figuring this somers bs out and Falcon came with attitude that isn't really fitting a community manager.
He's doing what he can within the NDA and you and I disagree on what his "attitude" should be.
I think he's fine. Bob is the god of Wormholes.
That's all you need to know. |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
213
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:38:00 -
[426] - Quote
Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again. Senex Legio |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
89
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:40:00 -
[427] - Quote
Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again.
No. He sells codes that must be redeemed. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20224
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:42:00 -
[428] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:I was stating that I don't agree that Falcons focus should be in patting CSM's back rather than focusing on figuring this somers bs out and Falcon came with attitude that isn't really fitting a community manager. He's doing what he can within the NDA and you and I disagree on what his "attitude" should be. I think he's fine. Agreed I'd much rather see CCP's community representatives telling it how it is than feeding us a load of crap from some derp, who has probably never played Eve, in marketing/PR.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
213
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:49:00 -
[429] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again. No. He sells codes that must be redeemed.
But if the code is not redeemed, it is possible to sell it over and over right? Senex Legio |
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:53:00 -
[430] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Asuri Kinnes wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:I was stating that I don't agree that Falcons focus should be in patting CSM's back rather than focusing on figuring this somers bs out and Falcon came with attitude that isn't really fitting a community manager. He's doing what he can within the NDA and you and I disagree on what his "attitude" should be. I think he's fine. Agreed I'd much rather see CCP's community representatives telling it how it is than feeding us a load of crap from some derp, who has probably never played Eve, in marketing/PR.
I think you guys may have misread what I wrote. How would it be against some NDA for him and CSM to focus on having these meetings/talks that they need to have, rather than sitting here and making back patting posts?
I am all for Falcon being the one delivering the information rather than some marketing/PR people. What I was saying was trying (obviously poorly) to say was that they should focus on getting that information and/or coming to a conclusion about if they see it as RMT or not.
Once that has been done then please go wild with the back patting thank you posts. The work has to be done before credit and appraisal (is that even the right word?) can be given.
Ps. While CSM does a great job, they also knew what they were getting into. These kind of emergencies is nothing new in EVE or with CCP. They would not have gotten into if they didn't like the excitement and occasional stress elements like this. :) |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20224
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:53:00 -
[431] - Quote
Jake Rivers wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again. No. He sells codes that must be redeemed. But if the code is not redeemed, it is possible to sell it over and over right? If the code is not redeemed, there's no PLEX to buy, or sell.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
|
CCP Falcon
8102
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:58:00 -
[432] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:So on a more serious note. Do we have any estimates on when we might get to hear useful? Falcon?
Has there been any progress internally? I am not asking for details (all though they would be nice to have). Are the meetings moving forward or are you guys stuck?
The meetings are moving forward for sure, and I'm working on bringing you guys some more information, hopefully tomorrow. I'll be working most of the evening to make sure that stuff is still moving forward.
Please rest assured that the Community Team are taking this extremely seriously, and we're making sure that this the concerns of the community are addressed and that what happens is appropriate for the situation.
Ace Boogi wrote:I was happy that CCP Falcon said 'nobody is too big to fail in Eve'.
I stand by this, no one is above the rules in EVE.
Bad Bobby wrote:It looks like there's blood on the dancefloor again.
Disco inferno time.
Ruric Thyase wrote:I wonder if EVEBet has any action on the outcome of this
Not that I'm aware of.
Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again.
This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:04:00 -
[433] - Quote
Not much, but it is very good to hear that it's moving forward and get a rough estimate on when we might hear something. Thank you Falcon.
Jake Rivers, As people have said, the code would have had to be redeemed for it to become a plex. I believe the codes come with a "not for resell" sticker/notice and that would have been to big of a nono and set of the alarms much sooner. The RMT issue is right on the line if it's ok or not and I was easier to try and keep under the radar. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:08:00 -
[434] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
Please rest assured that the Community Team are taking this extremely seriously, and we're making sure that this the concerns of the community are addressed and that what happens is appropriate for the situation.
What of CCP's other departments?
After all (and please don't misunderstand) this is not a situation CM decides on, it has a different set of tasks here (not envying you either way).
Reason I ask, is because in many ways this situation is a test of CCP as a whole. There's the venture, there's the game, it hasn't been an easy year - I'm sure you understand the interdependancies here.
It can't be easy for the old folks either. Regardless of mistakes or events unfolding, once again it's bumping into something coming from customers going overboard. Regardless of whether willfully or not. |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
215
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:08:00 -
[435] - Quote
CCP Falcon if you were suspicious of this happening, and I certainly am not the first to come up with that angle, it is possible for someone to do this and completely abuse the system in a smooth RMT operation.
I do hope you recognize that Sommerblink is doing money laundering one way or another, it can't be helped with the massive amounts of ISK they handle on a daily basis, there must be some point where 'greed' takes over to convert these gaming assets into cold hard cash.
Anyways, if you saved any of that Crown Royal, tonight would be a good night to have a shot or two. ;) Senex Legio |
Arec Bardwin
1503
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:14:00 -
[436] - Quote
Let's hope this is fixed once and for all this time. We really don't need a Somer of Rage 2015. |
|
CCP Leeloo
C C P C C P Alliance
379
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:17:00 -
[437] - Quote
111010110 wrote: What of CCP's other departments?
The rest of CCP is taking this situation extremely seriously too.
CCP Leeloo | CSM Coordinator | Russian Community Coordinator | @ccp_leeloo |
|
Lasse R Farnsworth
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:22:00 -
[438] - Quote
Concerning the selling the plex over and over again:
If the popup with "Do you want isk or a plex ?" comes before going to markee dragon somer COULD make an thing like every x isk buyer goes to this alternate paysite .. you know good old man in the middle thing ... so markee wouldn't see the money, ccp wouldn'T see the money ..
Just saying .. you know would be easy to scam markee from some % of the sales ... |
NFain
Elysian. Orderly Misconduct
74
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:25:00 -
[439] - Quote
I'm still slightly concerned on what's actually being investigated
From my understanding 1) legality of the issue via EULA/TOS 2) correspondence between CCP VP & Somer
However wasn't this issue handled a little more than a year ago? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290929
Or will these answers come in due time? |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2882
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:28:00 -
[440] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Tippia wrote:NFain wrote: However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop. Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling. Unless Somer is kicking back some profits within CCP...?
NO! BAD! DO NOT DRINK THE DINSDALE KOOL-AID! De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
|
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:29:00 -
[441] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo have been very open to our questions and the questions that we have brought forward from the community starting from last night. I've recently been asked about accounts used for businesses and what account usage qualifies as a business reference this part of the EULA: Quote:"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
Quality. This is why I voted for you [and Psychotic Monk lol] https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331004 - thank me later |
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
467
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:30:00 -
[442] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again. This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case.
It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent.
For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale. |
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
635
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:30:00 -
[443] - Quote
Wow. What a mess.
No bonus rooms? Songs to sing? Anything?
. They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2882
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:35:00 -
[444] - Quote
Sketchy Bob wrote:Asuri Kinnes wrote:Sketchy Bob wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple. Is this the kind of attitude we can expect from the community manager going forward? Shouldn't the community manager at least to pretend to care about what the community thinks? And I love how you opted to answer this among all the outstanding questions in this thread. You clearly have the communities best in mind. Edit: The back pating post would be ok and well deserved. If there was any actual progress. I hope so - it would be a return to days of old when the Dev's told the whiny brats off every once in awhile. I salute our non-**** taking overlords. Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input.
You do have another option. By all means, feel free to exercise it. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
24
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:38:00 -
[445] - Quote
Lallante wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again. This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case. It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent. For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale.
Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.) |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
709
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:39:00 -
[446] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:Guttripper wrote:Tippia wrote:NFain wrote: However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop. Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling. Unless Somer is kicking back some profits within CCP...? I strongly advise you don't start throwing mud for fun. There's enough broo-ha already without starting wild new rumours.
A question is not rumor. Past internal actions within CCP has had serious in and out of game consequences. This yet-another-round of baffling events naturally brings up these serious questions. I would be amazed if CCP IA is not a part of this as well right now.
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2882
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:42:00 -
[447] - Quote
NFain wrote:I'm still slightly concerned on what's actually being investigated and what there is to investigate. From my understanding 1) legality of the issue via EULA/TOS 2) correspondence between CCP VP & Somer However wasn't this issue handled a little more than a year ago? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290929Or will these answers come in due time? It was.
And then this happened making it the second time Some and Markee have been dragged over the coals for this kind of thing. Now, were this any other player, they wouldn't have gotten a second chance - bans would have been distributed and that would have been the end of the matter.
If they get a third chance, things are going to turn ugly very quickly. How ugly will be largely determined by why they got that third chance. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Align Planet1
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
40
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:44:00 -
[448] - Quote
Annie Getyourgun wrote:Lallante wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again. This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case. It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent. For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale. Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.)
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-etc-is-dead-long-live-the-plex-activation-code |
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
467
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:52:00 -
[449] - Quote
Annie Getyourgun wrote:Lallante wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again. This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case. It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent. For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale. Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.)
No. You can call them GTCs (the old name) or call them "redeemable plex activation codes" (the new name), but they arent plex they are a one time redeemable code. |
Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
24
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:54:00 -
[450] - Quote
Align Planet1 wrote:Annie Getyourgun wrote:Lallante wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again. This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case. It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent. For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale. Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.) http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-etc-is-dead-long-live-the-plex-activation-code
Yes thank you for that link. I was trying to avoid any embarrassment regarding lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. |
|
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
467
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:56:00 -
[451] - Quote
Annie Getyourgun wrote:[Yes thank you for that link. I was trying to avoid any embarrassment regarding lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work.
Its just a name change really. Its still a code, it still is exchangable for game time through plex. |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
215
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:59:00 -
[452] - Quote
Lallante wrote:Annie Getyourgun wrote:Lallante wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Jake Rivers wrote:Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?
In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again. This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case. It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent. For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale. Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.) No. You can call them GTCs (the old name) or call them "redeemable plex activation codes" (the new name), but they arent plex they are a one time redeemable code.
Of course they are a one time redeemable code, but was sommerblink buying back the code, or making the player redeem his code and transfer a plex via contract to sommerblink? If sommerblink was simply buying the plex code, this could be used over and over again.
Senex Legio |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5833
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 21:06:00 -
[453] - Quote
Jake Rivers wrote: Of course they are a one time redeemable code, but was sommerblink buying back the code, or making the player redeem his code and transfer a plex via contract to sommerblink? If sommerblink was simply buying the plex code, this could be used over and over again.
Well, since Falcon said that's not the case you can put it to bed now and find another conspiracy to champion.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
CCP Falcon
8108
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 21:21:00 -
[454] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Jake Rivers wrote: Of course they are a one time redeemable code, but was sommerblink buying back the code, or making the player redeem his code and transfer a plex via contract to sommerblink? If sommerblink was simply buying the plex code, this could be used over and over again.
Well, since Falcon said that's not the case you can put it to bed now and find another conspiracy to champion. Mr Epeen
I like your shades. I need to get me some of those.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
CroisisCZ
Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 21:25:00 -
[455] - Quote
There seems to be several opinions about what is RMT and what is not so could someone from CCP please make a clear statement?
EXAMPLE 1: CCP has a contract with MD/SC/Amazon/Santa Claus, those people sell GTCs (PLEX activation codes or whatever it is called now) that CCP provides to them, CCP gets payed, reseller gets a cut. No biggie, normal business model, there is no ingame connection or benefits, therefore no danger of RMT.
EXAMPLE 2: This first tier reseller decides to "subcontract" those codes provided by CCP on the similar terms so CCP gets payed, tier 1 gets his cut and shares it with tier 2 subcontractor. If this Subcontractor has no affiliation with the game itself, there should be no problem (if CCP sanctions subcontracting at all ofc).
EXAMPLE 3: This tier 2 subcontractor is an active player... this is where things get problematic IMHO. As long as this referral does not come with any "catch" or bonus from the provider, things should be OK...
EXAMPLE 4: There is a "catch", "bonus", "advantage" or benefit of some kind. ISK, ships, modules or basically any ingame items mean RMT to me. C/D?
EXAMPLE 5: This "bonus" comes in a form of third party service connected to the game. For example you get access to a special section of a website, get better/more/faster information, special functions etc... Is this RMT? IMHO it should be. C/D?
EXAMPLE 6: This "bonus" comes in a form of third party service or items not connected to EVE Online... For example If you use my referral code, I will send you NSFW photos of my girlfriend / teacup with my logo etc... Is this RMT? IMHO not but shady nonetheless. C/D?
As far as promos go, they are ofc a common thing these days but they should be limited to tier 1 contractors, problem solved. Or even better, just dont allow your partners to subcontract GTCs and none of this will ever happen again. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4374
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 21:39:00 -
[456] - Quote
CroisisCZ wrote:a clear statement This would only benefit those that would abuse the system and hide behind technicalities. If it remotely smells of RMT, stay away from it or expect a hammer from the sky. A grey area and uncertainty is necessary.
Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
CroisisCZ
Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 21:52:00 -
[457] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote: This would only benefit those that would abuse the system and hide behind technicalities. If it remotely smells of RMT, stay away from it or expect a hammer from the sky. A grey area and uncertainty is necessary.
I am aware of the fact that CCP uses this argument but it also means that people like Somer will keep trying to outsmart them and keep looking for loopholes. Add to it how easily was he able to get away with his last scheme and you are set for a s**tstorm we see now. Come on, EVE has a very special community and people here just love to take pitchforks and torches when there is a chance for a good witch hunt and refusing to make a clear statement that everyone caught with their hands dirty will be dealt with just adding fuel to the fire. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5835
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 21:59:00 -
[458] - Quote
CroisisCZ wrote: I am aware of the fact that CCP uses this argument but it also means that people like Somer will keep trying to outsmart them and keep looking for loopholes. Add to it how easily was he able to get away with his last scheme and you are set for a s**tstorm we see now.
**** storm?
You must be new. You obviously have no idea what a real forum **** storm looks like. This is a mild whine.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Boom McCondor
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 22:02:00 -
[459] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:virm pasuul wrote:Guttripper wrote:Tippia wrote:NFain wrote: However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop. Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling. Unless Somer is kicking back some profits within CCP...? I strongly advise you don't start throwing mud for fun. There's enough broo-ha already without starting wild new rumours. A question is not rumor. Past internal actions within CCP has had serious in and out of game consequences. This yet-another-round of baffling events naturally brings up these serious questions. I would be amazed if CCP IA is not a part of this as well right now. Technically this is a sentence fragment with a question mark at the end, neither a complete thought nor an actual question. Just the thing that rumors seem to start from, in other words. |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 22:05:00 -
[460] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:CroisisCZ wrote: I am aware of the fact that CCP uses this argument but it also means that people like Somer will keep trying to outsmart them and keep looking for loopholes. Add to it how easily was he able to get away with his last scheme and you are set for a s**tstorm we see now.
**** storm? You must be new. You obviously have no idea what a real forum **** storm looks like. This is a mild whine. Mr Epeen
In response to your signature; There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just wasted 3 of them by signing your ******* post when we can all see your name on the side. Congratulations, dumbass!
Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
|
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 22:06:00 -
[461] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:CroisisCZ wrote: I am aware of the fact that CCP uses this argument but it also means that people like Somer will keep trying to outsmart them and keep looking for loopholes. Add to it how easily was he able to get away with his last scheme and you are set for a s**tstorm we see now.
**** storm? You must be new. You obviously have no idea what a real forum **** storm looks like. This is a mild whine. Mr Epeen
Besides, no forum shitstorm of any kind or form has ever given CCP food for thought. They've been abundantly clear on that for more than a decade. It always comes down to very different arguments.
Which is why it's so important to keep the focus on what people say. CCP has had its issues with bumping into seeing customers do something instead of saying.
That said, I kinda miss the old CAOD and General Discussion on patchdays from some years back though. Kinda twisted. CCP have improved things so much it's been ages since there was a 100 page drama whine thread on something.
|
CroisisCZ
Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 22:06:00 -
[462] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:**** storm? You must be new. You obviously have no idea what a real forum **** storm looks like. This is a mild whine. Mr Epeen
The only reason we are only at page 23 is CCP Falcon and his swift reaction... Just wait for CCPs final statement in this Somergate 2.0. The storm may still come in full force...
EDIT: Page 24, damn, I swear it was 23 when I started to write the response. |
Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
169
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 22:25:00 -
[463] - Quote
When Falcon gets started theres no stopping him. except Lunch and perhaps some sleep.
This time round its being delt quite fast whereas the last time the response was a bit more sluggish, so when the team investigating ( and am sure there will be, they dont really want a shitstorm like last time, but that might already be brewing )
All Joe Public can do is stand by, make more comments on this, and pretty much wait to see what the next thing out of the bag is. twitter: @glasgowdunlop-á TDSIN Recruitment Director : Join 'TDSIN pub' Glasgow Meet Organiser
|
Fallon Talwyn
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 22:26:00 -
[464] - Quote
Goons, goons, goons, goons.....anyone else see a trend? |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2888
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 22:56:00 -
[465] - Quote
Fallon Talwyn wrote:Goons, goons, goons, goons.....anyone else see a trend?
No, but I was always terrible at pattern recognition - it's what's kept me out of Mensa every time I apply. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
cpu939
Eternal Darkness. Get Off My Lawn
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 23:01:00 -
[466] - Quote
Fallon Talwyn wrote:Goons, goons, goons, goons.....anyone else see a trend?
nope, i see other alliance and alts posting too.
what i can't understand is why Somer Blink hasn't asked to become a retailer i'm sure they would get more $ to the plex then being a 3rd party.
there is a lot of grey areas in the rules ccp have for this game. as i did say in the other post i do think this is rmt |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15724
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 23:37:00 -
[467] - Quote
I'm just trying to follow the cookie trail of a PLEX passing through SOMER.
SOMER pays (say) 20% above market for a PLEX
raffles it off for 12/10ths of its value (getting that ISK back)
is that about right? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 23:38:00 -
[468] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I'm just trying to follow the cookie trail of a PLEX passing through SOMER.
SOMER pays (say) 20% above market for a PLEX
raffles it off for 12/10ths of its value (getting that ISK back)
is that accurate?
You're leaving out the (very high) possibility of shill accounts wining the PLEX among other things. Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15724
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 23:41:00 -
[469] - Quote
o.... ok that's a new one.
oh wow.
still [mostly] just trying to get an idea of how it could affect PLEX prices. tbh I took advantage of the bonus credit last time, which was the first time I bought PLEX in over a year. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23952
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 23:45:00 -
[470] - Quote
Fallon Talwyn wrote:Goons, goons, goons, goons.....anyone else see a trend? So don't post on the SA forums if you don't want to see that. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
|
CCP Falcon
8117
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 23:53:00 -
[471] - Quote
Fallon Talwyn wrote:Goons, goons, goons, goons.....anyone else see a trend?
Potato, Potato, Potato, Potato... anyone else see a trend?
It's really easy to try and drum up conpiracy theories, and if you look at anything long and hard enough you see a pattern.
Please don't rumor monger, it's not a good thing.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 23:56:00 -
[472] - Quote
Fallon Talwyn wrote:Goons, goons, goons, goons.....anyone else see a trend?
Keep trying Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Jess Tanner
Bangworks Systems Inc.
134
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:00:00 -
[473] - Quote
Goodnight sweet prince... Go with Bob, keep Him always in your heart. He is your Sword, Shield, and the Knife in your back.
|
Kale Sinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:00:00 -
[474] - Quote
"Hey friends,
Thanks for all the years of Blink that we've spent together. It's been a long four years-- some of it longer than others! Unfortunately, as of today, Blink is going to go on extended-- perhaps indefinite-- hiatus. CCP has gone back on everything they said several months ago, and the resulting environment is so hostile that it's not one we want to try to operate in, if CCP throws us under the bus.
If you have prizes waiting, they will be fulfilled. You can claim prizes as normal. Bonk tickets have been refunded to your account balance. We will begin refunding all account balances of people that have played in the last 6 months, starting with balances over 10 million ISK. As always, we're not in the business of stealing your money. It's been an absolute pleasure to meet many of you, through Blink, Eve, and our lotteries channel. Thank you for the experience."
Wonder what happens to that big pile of ISk he has? |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:01:00 -
[475] - Quote
OH GET REKT #tangodown
Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15724
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:02:00 -
[476] - Quote
Analeesa wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I'm just trying to follow the cookie trail of a PLEX passing through SOMER.
SOMER pays (say) 20% above market for a PLEX
raffles it off for 12/10ths of its value (getting that ISK back)
is that accurate? You're leaving out the (very high) possibility of shill accounts wining the PLEX among other things. wasn't that always possible?
also, I can't find a solid date (or even a week or month figure) for how long this latest SOMER deal has been active. the supposed authorization is dated March 26th...
how long has this been going on? and what caused the suspicion now, in mid-August?
I'm just curious, and not insinuating anything. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:05:00 -
[477] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Analeesa wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I'm just trying to follow the cookie trail of a PLEX passing through SOMER.
SOMER pays (say) 20% above market for a PLEX
raffles it off for 12/10ths of its value (getting that ISK back)
is that accurate? You're leaving out the (very high) possibility of shill accounts wining the PLEX among other things. wasn't that always possible? also, I can't find a solid date (or even a week or month figure) for how long this latest SOMER deal has been active. the supposed authorization is dated March 26th... how long has this been going on? and what caused the suspicion now, in mid-August? I'm just curious, and not insinuating anything.
Been active only a week or so if I recall correctly. Well it's all over now :)
Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23952
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:06:00 -
[478] - Quote
I'm torn between and
Onoz, the community is hostile to RMT. News at 11. If anything, that's the best endorsement the EVE community has ever seen. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Suzie Swindle
Code Enforcement and Compliance Agency
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:06:00 -
[479] - Quote
Those who play blink will have noticed somers has shut down saying CCP has tossed them under the bus and its to hostile to continue.... they say those who played over 6 months will get their isk left returned.... no rmt no blink??? kinda seems like that to me. |
Thead Enco
Radio New Vegas
189
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:09:00 -
[480] - Quote
Kale Sinn wrote:"Hey friends,
Thanks for all the years of Blink that we've spent together. It's been a long four years-- some of it longer than others! Unfortunately, as of today, Blink is going to go on extended-- perhaps indefinite-- hiatus. CCP has gone back on everything they said several months ago, and the resulting environment is so hostile that it's not one we want to try to operate in, if CCP throws us under the bus.
If you have prizes waiting, they will be fulfilled. You can claim prizes as normal. Bonk tickets have been refunded to your account balance. We will begin refunding all account balances of people that have played in the last 6 months, starting with balances over 10 million ISK. As always, we're not in the business of stealing your money. It's been an absolute pleasure to meet many of you, through Blink, Eve, and our lotteries channel. Thank you for the experience."
Wonder what happens to that big pile of ISk he has?
Down the "Isk sink"
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
|
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:10:00 -
[481] - Quote
Suzie Swindle wrote:Those who play blink will have noticed somers has shut down saying CCP has tossed them under the bus and its to hostile to continue.... they say those who played over 6 months will get their isk left returned.... no rmt no blink??? kinda seems like that to me.
lel rip in peace somerblink 20?? - 2014
This thread should be closed as the problem is resolved.
But for now everyone should pay they rip in peace respects to blink. Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Suzie Swindle
Code Enforcement and Compliance Agency
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:12:00 -
[482] - Quote
Well atleast blink got in one big last pile of isk with the start of the celebration thing they had going on.... to bad though, I am going to miss all the ships people donated to me :) |
Grave Digger Eriker
Grave Diggers Guild
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:18:00 -
[483] - Quote
Justice is served.
Congratulations to CCP. Death to all RMTing in its many forms |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23952
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:20:00 -
[484] - Quote
Analeesa wrote:lel rip in peace somerblink 20?? - 2014
This thread should be closed as the problem is resolved.
But for now everyone should pay they rip in peace respects to blink. People have been ripping them to pieces for a very long time now. The problem isn't resolved either just because running away in a panic taking the ball and leaving in a huff GÇö the actual matter of RMTing and the consequences of any such actions for the people involved is yet to be determined.
Going by that announcement, there's still a large pile of ISK that will be kept around (or transferred to alts for happy-funtime). Some of that may very well be deemed illegitimate, so the actual fireworks haven't even started yet.
=ƒÄë GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15725
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:22:00 -
[485] - Quote
Analeesa wrote:Suzie Swindle wrote:Those who play blink will have noticed somers has shut down saying CCP has tossed them under the bus and its to hostile to continue.... they say those who played over 6 months will get their isk left returned.... no rmt no blink??? kinda seems like that to me. lel rip in peace somerblink 20?? - 2014 This thread should be closed as the problem is resolved. But for now everyone should pay they rip in peace respects to blink. kinda. where do I go to raffle [gamble]? (is the question on my mind, and I'm not being facetious.. the list of places I can think of is short. maybe you know of some.)
ehhhh blahh nevermind. i'll just wait for a thread about it.
don't trol me please. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Tara Read
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
728
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:22:00 -
[486] - Quote
Well.... Bye.
Visit my blog for all the latest in jeers and tears as well as news at http://hoistthecolors.org |
bacon lettuce tomato
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:23:00 -
[487] - Quote
Horrible decision |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:24:00 -
[488] - Quote
CCP Leeloo wrote:I'd just like to give a huge thank you to the CSM for their dedication to assisting in taking care of this.
They've been amazing through this, and have been willing to show up for all the scheduled meetings that we've had at short notice at ridiculous time with a very clear, constructive and unified voice on what should be done to fix this problem. This all during pretty much every member of the CSM working hard to prepare for the Summer Summit.
<3 them all.
Thanks also to all of you guys for your feedback, your comments, and sharing your feelings on this, as it's something the community team also feels very strongly about. <3 Do all you guys ever stop patting each other on the backs? I just want fast resolution so the site can come back up and policy can be no longer "grey". |
Baron Torkskails
Lazy Brothers Inc
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:24:00 -
[489] - Quote
seriously need to reconsider this whole affair, the CSM's relevance to the matter is minimal at best. the promotion was approved by ccp after a long discussion and should be honored. |
Marsha Mallow
1451
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:25:00 -
[490] - Quote
gf o7
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
|
Julaaaaaay Julaaaaaay
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:25:00 -
[491] - Quote
Okay Falcon now that you've killed Blink and circlejerked with the CSM in a vain attempt to paint them as anything other than a pointless publicity stunt, what next? |
Baron Torkskails
Lazy Brothers Inc
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:26:00 -
[492] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Fallon Talwyn wrote:Goons, goons, goons, goons.....anyone else see a trend? Potato, Potato, Potato, Potato... anyone else see a trend? It's really easy to try and drum up conspiracy theories, and if you look at anything long enough and hard enough you see a pattern. Please don't rumor monger, it's not a good thing.
I see a trend, quit caving to nullsec whiners. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23952
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:26:00 -
[493] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:kinda. where do I go to raffle [gamble]? (is the question on my mind, and I'm not being facetious.. the list of places I can think of is short. maybe you know of some.) EVE-bet? EOH?
bacon lettuce tomato wrote: Horrible decision It certainly doesn't improve the perception of him running a legit shopGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Marsha Mallow
1451
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:26:00 -
[494] - Quote
Julaaaaaay Julaaaaaay wrote:Okay Falcon now that you've killed Blink and circlejerked with the CSM in a vain attempt to paint them as anything other than a pointless publicity stunt, what next? With any luck, he'll post a ***** pic then go to bed. Unless you had something more specific in mind? DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1039
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:26:00 -
[495] - Quote
Good guys win again! EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8927
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:31:00 -
[496] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Good guys win again!
Confirmed, Somer has just announced a shut down, probably in an attempt at damage control. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Julaaaaaay Julaaaaaay
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:31:00 -
[497] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Julaaaaaay Julaaaaaay wrote:Okay Falcon now that you've killed Blink and circlejerked with the CSM in a vain attempt to paint them as anything other than a pointless publicity stunt, what next? With any luck, he'll post a ***** pic then go to bed. Unless you had something more specific in mind?
No doubt it will come to light that he is another one of the Five GuysGäó and reddit will turn on him. |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:32:00 -
[498] - Quote
Baron Torkskails wrote:seriously need to reconsider this whole affair, the CSM's relevance to the matter is minimal at best. the promotion was approved by ccp after a long discussion and should be honored.
CCP didn't approve what she did. Somer screwed CCP which is evident in the RTF Somer also linked. (http://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf) This RTF is what Somer said was the finalized proposal of their plan.
As stated here 'Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. ' The lie is the highlighted text.
Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
772
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:34:00 -
[499] - Quote
I'm very happy to see decisive action taken towards RMT in Eve. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
186
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:35:00 -
[500] - Quote
This is total BS. We lose one of the oldest, best, Eve Gambling sites, and a HUGE contributor to both Player and CCP Events.. all because CCP can't get their own act together. |
|
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:37:00 -
[501] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:This is total BS. We lose one of the oldest, best, Eve Gambling sites, and a HUGE contributor to both Player and CCP Events.. all because CCP can't get their own act together.
You are a fool.
http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc
'For the curious, this was the final written proposal confirmed via e-mail, finalized March 26th.'
This was linked with the above statement: http://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf
'Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link.'
She lied in the proposal that was approved.
This is nothing but a terrible attempt at screwing over CCP.
Cry more. Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23955
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:38:00 -
[502] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:This is total BS. We lose one of the oldest, best, Eve Gambling sites, and a HUGE contributor to both Player and CCP Events PR machine to increase their own sales. All because CCP can't get their own act together they tried to break the very clear rule against RMT on multiple occasions, even going so far as to lie to CCP execs about what they were doing. Fixed. Let's not sugercoat what it is they were doing, ok? It just sounds insincere. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1568
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:39:00 -
[503] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:This is total BS. We lose one of the oldest, best, Eve Gambling sites, and a HUGE contributor to both Player and CCP Events.. all because CCP can't get their own act together.
Let me present the other side.
You are losing a site because he can no longer find a way to make real life cash from it. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Lothras Andastar
Associated North American Lovers of Dolphins
81
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:39:00 -
[504] - Quote
Quote:Unfortunately, as of today, Blink is going to go on extended-- perhaps indefinite-- hiatus. CCP has gone back on everything they said several months ago, and the resulting environment is so hostile that it's not one we want to try to operate in, if CCP throws us under the bus.
Can we please have a simple yes or no from CCP about this? They are accusing CCP of explicitly permitting this, but they have not said clearly either way if this is the truth. Because the Legacy Code has too much Psssssssssssssssh, nothing will ever get fixed until CCP stop wasting money on failed sparkle MMOs and instead rewrite the entire backend of EvE from scratch. |
Ackbarre
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:39:00 -
[505] - Quote
Really Sion did this because of Shutupandshave's terrible gambling habit. Suas has literally sunk thousands of dollars into Someblink. So we did an intervention in the one way we knew how. |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:39:00 -
[506] - Quote
Lothras Andastar wrote:Quote:Unfortunately, as of today, Blink is going to go on extended-- perhaps indefinite-- hiatus. CCP has gone back on everything they said several months ago, and the resulting environment is so hostile that it's not one we want to try to operate in, if CCP throws us under the bus.
Can we please have a simple yes or no from CCP about this? They are accusing CCP of explicitly permitting this, but they have not said clearly either way if this is the truth.
Can you read my above post? If not then please exit this thread. Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
154
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:40:00 -
[507] - Quote
Kale Sinn wrote:"Hey friends,
Thanks for all the years of Blink that we've spent together. It's been a long four years-- some of it longer than others! Unfortunately, as of today, Blink is going to go on extended-- perhaps indefinite-- hiatus. CCP has gone back on everything they said several months ago, and the resulting environment is so hostile that it's not one we want to try to operate in, if CCP throws us under the bus.
If you have prizes waiting, they will be fulfilled. You can claim prizes as normal. Bonk tickets have been refunded to your account balance. We will begin refunding all account balances of people that have played in the last 6 months, starting with balances over 10 million ISK. As always, we're not in the business of stealing your money. It's been an absolute pleasure to meet many of you, through Blink, Eve, and our lotteries channel. Thank you for the experience."
Wonder what happens to that big pile of ISk he has? Remember when Erotica1 realized he'd probably get banned and decided to bonus room himself and pod himself and give away all his isk? Hmm, this seems like exactly the same thing. You messed up big this time, SOMERblink. TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items |
Arec Bardwin
1505
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:42:00 -
[508] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:This is total BS. We lose one of the oldest, best, Eve Gambling sites, and a HUGE contributor to both Player and CCP Events.. all because CCP can't get their own act together. Somer kinda rekt himself wouldn't you say? I don't feel the least sorry for him.
|
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
794
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:43:00 -
[509] - Quote
It's so satisfying watching all the people, who last year were saying about "all the tears" and "cry babies go back to WoW", in regard to people complaining about Somer Blink, now be the ones crying because their favourite gambling site has had to close up shop. What comes around, goes around in this case. Amusing. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11165
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:43:00 -
[510] - Quote
Ahahahahahahahahaha
I greatly enjoy seeing somer's alts, employees, and shills coming out of the woodwork. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
|
bacon lettuce tomato
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:43:00 -
[511] - Quote
CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
|
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:43:00 -
[512] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ahahahahahahahahaha
I greatly enjoy seeing somer's alts coming out of the woodwork.
You can't undo going full ******. Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:44:00 -
[513] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
No they won't, there will still be the same demand and same supply price as always.
Don't try make up **** to make it seem like this is terrible. Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Timberwulf420
The Shadow of Darkness Northern Associates.
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:44:00 -
[514] - Quote
Blink is love, Blink is life. Why do you destroy it with such might? Damn you goonswarm Federation, you took the best out of the worst. Blink was the greatest creation by eve playerbase, and u ruined it for good. Thank you |
Baron Torkskails
Lazy Brothers Inc
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:45:00 -
[515] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ahahahahahahahahaha
I greatly enjoy seeing somer's alts, employees, and shills coming out of the woodwork.
take the tinfoil hat off. |
Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
106
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:45:00 -
[516] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
Do you have numbers to substantiate this claim? |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1039
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:46:00 -
[517] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
lol
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:47:00 -
[518] - Quote
Baron Torkskails wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ahahahahahahahahaha
I greatly enjoy seeing somer's alts, employees, and shills coming out of the woodwork. take the tinfoil hat off.
It's been proven that SOMERBlink was using shill accounts with vastly superior chances of winning Blinks, you really think they wouldn't use 'shill' accounts to make their public image during their demise (which is probably not a real demise but a cry for people to feel sorry for them and then make a miraculous return) look better? Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23955
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:47:00 -
[519] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing Same as any other RMT or botting outfit then (many of which have attempted to inject the same silly argument to spread FUD about their being tossed out)? And yet, CCP is quite happy to get rid of those kinds of GÇ£customersGÇ¥ for some reason. It's almost as if it was a good policy to do soGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Nelly Galbatha
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:49:00 -
[520] - Quote
GRRR GOOOOOONNNSSSSSS THEY TAKE ALL OUR TOYS GRRRRR REDIT FOR BREAKING THE NEWS!!!!!! |
|
bacon lettuce tomato
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:49:00 -
[521] - Quote
Analeesa wrote:bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
No they won't, there will still be the same demand and same supply price as always. Don't try make up **** to make it seem like this is terrible.
Some people would buy PLEX to spend on BLINK before this 'special' or whatever it was. I was on comms when some addicts did it anyway.
Also, people in the Somner Lotteries channel are talking about their own subscriptions. I'm not making anything up, why would I? I don't care at all. I don't even play BLINK and just resubbed today because of the summer special... You seem like you care a lot though.
|
Varakh Snowscales
New Sepulchral Monolith Violent Declaration
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:50:00 -
[522] - Quote
Is this really the biggest issue CCP should be dealing with within eve online? Especially since theyare the ones responsible for the most recent drama. It's laughable, the popularity contest that is the CSM serving there own goals. This whole goons are responsible **** is laughable.
CCP, The biggest isk sink in eve isnt going to cause your game to stagnate and die. It's the year and a half long skill queue the new players have to go through to be remotely competative flying tier 1 hulls that's gonna kill new blood joining eve. It's the complete lack of sovereignty changes along with the mass amount of non aggression pacts and treaties in null sec thats going to kill your game. The cripplingly slow rate of development when it comes to anything significant within eve as regards to in game content that isnt made by players themself. The massive over reliance on logi infleet engagements. The waste of time that is anything shorter than meta 3 modules being in the game.
The CSM and CCP should be concentrating on improving the game for all, not just themselves. But as per usual, I highly doubt anything will happen to benefit the average player any time soon.
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:50:00 -
[523] - Quote
Analeesa wrote:Baron Torkskails wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ahahahahahahahahaha
I greatly enjoy seeing somer's alts, employees, and shills coming out of the woodwork. take the tinfoil hat off. It's been proven that SOMERBlink was using shill accounts with vastly superior chances of winning Blinks, you really think they wouldn't use 'shill' accounts to make their public image during their demise (which is probably not a real demise but a cry for people to feel sorry for them and then make a miraculous return) look better? I've seen that blog. I've seen more convincing arguments that mars rocks were aliens. You actually believed that ****?
But anyway, I'm sure now that blink is gone for good, so whatever. |
Himbeergeist
Knights of the Empire Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:51:00 -
[524] - Quote
Rhes wrote:bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
lol Blink is a place to use ISK at. It has processed the equivalent of more than 2m plex.
It will be fun to see what the people who spend their isk there will find now. Or if they'll just quit the game. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2294
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:51:00 -
[525] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Jake Rivers wrote: Of course they are a one time redeemable code, but was sommerblink buying back the code, or making the player redeem his code and transfer a plex via contract to sommerblink? If sommerblink was simply buying the plex code, this could be used over and over again.
Well, since Falcon said that's not the case you can put it to bed now and find another conspiracy to champion. Mr Epeen I like your shades. I need to get me some of those. Come to the dark side. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11165
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:51:00 -
[526] - Quote
Well sounds like you're unsubbing again. You should biomass though because a name like that ought to go to someone who actually cares. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Thead Enco
Radio New Vegas
190
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:52:00 -
[527] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Rhes wrote:Good guys win again! Confirmed, Somer has just announced a shut down, probably in an attempt at damage control.
#Wreckingball
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
Cherry Yeyo
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:52:00 -
[528] - Quote
He was the greatest scammer of our time o7 CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:53:00 -
[529] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote:Analeesa wrote:bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
No they won't, there will still be the same demand and same supply price as always. Don't try make up **** to make it seem like this is terrible. Some people would buy PLEX to spend on BLINK before this 'special' or whatever it was. I was on comms when some addicts did it anyway. Also, people in the Somner Lotteries channel are talking about their own subscriptions. I'm not making anything up, why would I? I don't care at all. I don't even play BLINK and just resubbed today because of the summer special... You seem like you care a lot though.
If someone wants isk, they'll buy their PLEX and sell it as usual.
There will be 0 loss in PLEX sales because of this, people will simply buy their PLEX direct from Markeedragon or the Eve site.
I'm enjoying shooting down these terrible arguments. Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5984
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:53:00 -
[530] - Quote
I just burned a PLEX to come back here and say:
This
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope Gallente Federation
457
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:53:00 -
[531] - Quote
Did anyone else think the VP of Sales was flirting with Somer? How the **** do you remove a signature? |
Marsha Mallow
1452
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:54:00 -
[532] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:This is total BS. We lose one of the oldest, best, Eve Gambling sites, and a HUGE contributor to both Player and CCP Events.. all because CCP can't get their own act together. Somer kinda rekt himself wouldn't you say? I don't feel the least sorry for him. Posting internal communication with an EvE employee might have seemed like a good idea at the time to drum up sympathy or level the playing field in a dispute - except for the fact that the wider community despises you already. Even if CCP employees were partly to blame for this (and there are still questions to be answered by IA why they weren't aware of player-empoloyee communication at this level) the minute he posted those logs this was done.
Has anyone asked for his stuff yet? If not..... DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
186
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:54:00 -
[533] - Quote
So what Blink was doing was wrong, But Eve Time Code can give you a Free PLEX for every $250 spent..
"New Promo - Your business counts! Starting May 9th 2014, After every $250 spent you will recieve 1 free PLEX" |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11165
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:54:00 -
[534] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I've seen that blog. I've seen more convincing arguments that mars rocks were aliens. You actually believed that ****?
But anyway, I'm sure now that blink is gone for good, so whatever. "It's okay guys we can trust this videogame pixel money gambling service not subject to any laws or regulations on gambling not to game the system for its own benefit, in the context of a game where such things are encouraged." They'd be fools not to do it. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5838
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:54:00 -
[535] - Quote
People got what they wanted.
But it won't stop there. I'm guessing at least another 20 pages before this peters out.
But if you people want to have some real fun, visit some of the resellers and check out the incentives (read: RMT). If you rage enough I bet you can get at least 3 or 4 of them shut down. You're on a roll people. Don't stop now.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5342
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:55:00 -
[536] - Quote
Julaaaaaay Julaaaaaay wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Julaaaaaay Julaaaaaay wrote:Okay Falcon now that you've killed Blink and circlejerked with the CSM in a vain attempt to paint them as anything other than a pointless publicity stunt, what next? With any luck, he'll post a ***** pic then go to bed. Unless you had something more specific in mind? No doubt it will come to light that he is another one of the Five GuysGäó and reddit will turn on him.
Oh snap. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Hiashi Yenzyne
Mass Infection Important Internet Spaceship League
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:55:00 -
[537] - Quote
Varakh Snowscales wrote:Is this really the biggest issue CCP should be dealing with within eve online? Especially since theyare the ones responsible for the most recent drama. It's laughable, the popularity contest that is the CSM serving there own goals. This whole goons are responsible **** is laughable.
CCP, The biggest isk sink in eve isnt going to cause your game to stagnate and die. It's the year and a half long skill queue the new players have to go through to be remotely competative flying tier 1 hulls that's gonna kill new blood joining eve. It's the complete lack of sovereignty changes along with the mass amount of non aggression pacts and treaties in null sec thats going to kill your game. The cripplingly slow rate of development when it comes to anything significant within eve as regards to in game content that isnt made by players themself. The massive over reliance on logi infleet engagements. The waste of time that is anything shorter than meta 3 modules being in the game.
The CSM and CCP should be concentrating on improving the game for all, not just themselves. But as per usual, I highly doubt anything will happen to benefit the average player any time soon.
+9000 |
bacon lettuce tomato
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:56:00 -
[538] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:bacon lettuce tomato wrote:Analeesa wrote:bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
No they won't, there will still be the same demand and same supply price as always. Don't try make up **** to make it seem like this is terrible. Some people would buy PLEX to spend on BLINK before this 'special' or whatever it was. I was on comms when some addicts did it anyway. Also, people in the Somner Lotteries channel are talking about their own subscriptions. I'm not making anything up, why would I? I don't care at all. I don't even play BLINK and just resubbed today because of the summer special... You seem like you care a lot though. Well sounds like you're unsubbing again. You should biomass though because a name like that ought to go to someone who actually cares.
I should unsub because I don't really care about this BLINK drama? That doesn't make any sense. I'm not even that sure of what's going on, I just came back to the game.
Something about SOMER giving people ISK for using his referral link. Then CCP Falcon being really engaged, something, something.
|
Cherry Yeyo
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:56:00 -
[539] - Quote
Clearly there was some impropriety in that relationship from a professional standpoint and it really looks like Somer abused that to the extreme as in: let me run this vaguely worded proposal by my friend here at CCP who doesnt really understand the ramifications of what I'm trying to do and get a VP to sign off on this CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:57:00 -
[540] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I've seen that blog. I've seen more convincing arguments that mars rocks were aliens. You actually believed that ****?
But anyway, I'm sure now that blink is gone for good, so whatever. "It's okay guys we can trust this videogame pixel money gambling service not subject to any laws or regulations on gambling not to game the system for its own benefit, in the context of a game where such things are encouraged." They'd be fools not to do it. True, they would be. However, my statement about rocks and aliens stands. Did you see the original blog? It was incredibly terrible and tinfoilery. The "proof" didn't really qualify for the moniker of "evidence". |
|
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:57:00 -
[541] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:bacon lettuce tomato wrote:Analeesa wrote:bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
No they won't, there will still be the same demand and same supply price as always. Don't try make up **** to make it seem like this is terrible. Some people would buy PLEX to spend on BLINK before this 'special' or whatever it was. I was on comms when some addicts did it anyway. Also, people in the Somner Lotteries channel are talking about their own subscriptions. I'm not making anything up, why would I? I don't care at all. I don't even play BLINK and just resubbed today because of the summer special... You seem like you care a lot though. Well sounds like you're unsubbing again. You should biomass though because a name like that ought to go to someone who actually cares. I should unsub because I don't really care about this BLINK drama? That doesn't make any sense. I'm not even that sure of what's going on, I just came back to the game. Something about SOMER giving people ISK for using his referral link. Then CCP Falcon being really engaged, something, something.
You do realize it's CCP Falcon's job to make us fully aware of stuff like this.
He is community guy thing.
It's his job to be engaged and informative on the current shenanigans. Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
I Want ISK
I Want ISK Corp
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:58:00 -
[542] - Quote
I am the creator of iwantisk.com and I am here to state my opinion on this matter.
IF CCP decided to allow somer to do this, then somer should have been allowed to do it.
The bigger problem lies in the fact that the community was the one that got rid of blink's scheme it the first time, not CCP. So why does CCP feel that this form of "Buyer's Club" (words from CCP legal) should be allowed?
On top of that, Somer should not have accepted any form of favoritism that gave them more fame, ISK, and recognition which in turn gave them an infamous status across the community. Somer you should have chosen the community.
I am the competition and I honestly hate to see the competition go. Competition makes the game more fun.
I don't believe this is the end of blink. They can definitely use this to their advantage. But blink was already starting to lose lots of its speed and activity.
Ultimately, the community decided, and the community has decided that Somer should not be given any favoritism from CCP as that means that CCP is interfering with who is rich and known in eve. Keep it the sandbox it is supposed to be and don't allow certain people to force you to change and manipulate the rules to their advantage. Stick to your EULA and stop making EULAs that are so broad that no one can understand them and no case can be dismissed with how vague the EULA is.
My site has not once been given any favor by CCP. They tormented some of our bankers ofc but that is a whole other story that if I tell it to you, could be a violation of these confusing EULA terms.
BTW, If you post a link to somer blink's site on these forums, the forum system will not alert you that you are leaving the forums. Post my link and the forums will force you to make sure you want to leave.
FAVORITISM. |
Suzie Swindle
Code Enforcement and Compliance Agency
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:01:00 -
[543] - Quote
To those who say its not somers fault but CCP how can you get to that conclusion with the way the facts are as they sit right now, if they did this for the love of the game, and the fun, not for financial game, then pretty weak reason to bail... here is a small list of evidence....
1) Somers was told not to do this last year with their "bonus" program when they took the week grace period to go crazy with it and cash in as much as possible and then did the same thing again.
2) Somers own "proof" shows talks about "no" bonus offered, yet when it came time a bonus was offered
3) Somers claimed it was vetted by CCP and totaly legal/legit, when in fact it wasnt legal it was someone who was in sales... (this part is my opinion, but it was a friend most likely as to how they talked to eachother)
4) Somers claims they are "tossed under the bus" so they are quitting... if you are in the right and have not committed an offense do you tantrum and take your wagon home?
5) Somers shuts down as soon as they cannot run their kickback for cash program
Those who are saying "ohhhh well they did so much for the community".... you are right... but it wasn't for fun and for the game...well at least not at the end... it became a kickback for cash, and their good will to the community and donations to stuff was little more then advertising for the cash that would come in.... anyways its all been said before...
Oh and to those who say "who cares they brought so much more to eve" they should be able to make money off of it, its no big deal... There is ZERO tolerance for RMT... they shouldn't have special treatment....
And anyone who is quitting Eve over this... please send me your stuffs and isk... thanks! |
bacon lettuce tomato
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:02:00 -
[544] - Quote
Analeesa wrote:bacon lettuce tomato wrote:
I should unsub because I don't really care about this BLINK drama? That doesn't make any sense. I'm not even that sure of what's going on, I just came back to the game.
Something about SOMER giving people ISK for using his referral link. Then CCP Falcon being really engaged, something, something.
You do realize it's CCP Falcon's job to make us fully aware of stuff like this. He is community guy thing. It's his job to be engaged and informative on the current shenanigans.
ok, thanks for your input
It's valuable and you are valuable as a person.
I appreciate you and acknowledge you and thanks again for your response to this topic.
|
ExcaliburX
The Senate and People of Rome Northern Associates.
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:02:00 -
[545] - Quote
In other news...
CCP is releasing a new "casino" feature for EVE Online with the new Hyperion patch!
"Walking in station" now has a whole new meaning! Open the door that has been locked in your station for years to access the new EVE casino! Gamble your isk away to your heart's content!
In all seriousness, CCP should make something similar to Blink that is within the EVE client. You would have a new isk sink. You would be engaging the player base. It would pull money away from other third-parties that could be RMT'ing. All under the supervision of the CCP security team. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
272
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:03:00 -
[546] - Quote
No wonder the price for PLEX on the market rose so fast. How did the economist not catch on to this? Is this why he quit? What was CCP's cut of Somer's profits beyond the possible increased PLEX sales? |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2294
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:03:00 -
[547] - Quote
Just to throw my own opinion into the ever-widening ring...
I don't think that with SOMERblink shutting down the issue is settled or resolved. Other than any appropriate punishments as determined and meted out by CCP, I think the real issue here is the ambiguity in the third part policies governing what is and isn't allowed in third party development. As someone who's been trying to get into it, that ambiguity has by far been the largest barrier of entry. The complete mess of official information on the subject is so far scattered throughout blog posts, official articles, wiki entries, and year after year of dev forum posts that it is next to impossible to get clear, unequivocal answers to even some of the most basic questions.
And I don't mean to imply that there is no effort being made by CCP on the matter. I know CCP Foxfour and Falcon, for example, have been extraordinarily active and helpful in the community, but it seems that they badly need reinforcements. If CCP wants to help prevent something like this from happening again the first step would be a clear, official source of centralized information regarding the third party development rules and regulations. All of the ambiguity surrounding the rules as they stand is just a recipe for 'workarounds' and 'clever manipulation' of the rules that could potentially result in more instances of RMT or other rule-breaking such as this one. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
186
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:06:00 -
[548] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Just to throw my own opinion into the ever-widening ring...
I don't think that with SOMERblink shutting down the issue is settled or resolved. Other than any appropriate punishments as determined and meted out by CCP, I think the real issue here is the ambiguity in the third part policies governing what is and isn't allowed in third party development. As someone who's been trying to get into it, that ambiguity has by far been the largest barrier of entry. The complete mess of official information on the subject is so far scattered throughout blog posts, official articles, wiki entries, and year after year of dev forum posts that it is next to impossible to get clear, unequivocal answers to even some of the most basic questions.
And I don't mean to imply that there is no effort being made by CCP on the matter. I know CCP Foxfour and Falcon, for example, have been extraordinarily active and helpful in the community, but it seems that they badly need reinforcements. If CCP wants to help prevent something like this from happening again the first step would be a clear, official source of centralized information regarding the third party development rules and regulations. All of the ambiguity surrounding the rules as they stand is just a recipe for 'workarounds' and 'clever manipulation' of the rules that could potentially result in more instances of RMT or other rule-breaking such as this one. Indeed.. if I was a 3rd Party henceforth anything I'd do I'd want a signed letter from CCP Legal to hold them accountable.. Clearly taking their word for it amounts to nothing in the face of any bad PR. |
Captain Aizen1
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:07:00 -
[549] - Quote
Hey CCP DEV'S SOMERBLINK JUST PUT THIS ON THERE SITE http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23956
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:08:00 -
[550] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:I just burned a PLEX to come back here and say: This Best PLEX expenditure ever. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:09:00 -
[551] - Quote
Been there since the beginning.
Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Cherry Yeyo
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:09:00 -
[552] - Quote
I Want ISK wrote:If CCP decided to allow somer to do this, then somer should have been allowed to do it Except they didnt decide- Falcon said this whole thing was never run by legal. Somer took his latest scheme and ran with it and hoped no one would pay attention, the dude has been trying to turn his massive pile of useless isk (to him) into real life bucks ever since last year.
CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11166
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:10:00 -
[553] - Quote
That's been there for a day or so. They're fully aware of it. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Captain Aizen1
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:10:00 -
[554] - Quote
Analeesa wrote:Been there since the beginning. just pop up for me? hmm
|
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
186
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:10:00 -
[555] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:I Want ISK wrote:If CCP decided to allow somer to do this, then somer should have been allowed to do it Except they didnt decide- Falcon said this whole thing was never run by legal. Somer took his latest scheme and ran with it and hoped no one would pay attention, the dude has been trying to turn his massive pile of useless isk (to him) into real life bucks ever since last year. He did ask if he needed to go through Legal.. CCP was the one that said Naa you're fine. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23956
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:10:00 -
[556] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:So what Blink was doing was wrong, But Eve Time Code can give you a Free PLEX for every $250 spent..
"New Promo - Your business counts! Starting May 9th 2014, After every $250 spent you will recieve 1 free PLEX" Standard customer loyalty program (if a bit on the miserly side GÇö isn't GÇ£buy 10 get 1 for freeGÇ¥ the standard? ) with no in-game component. So there's no comparison there. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
109
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:10:00 -
[557] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote:I should unsub because I don't really care about this BLINK drama? That doesn't make any sense. I'm not even that sure of what's going on, I just came back to the game.
Something about SOMER giving people ISK for using his referral link. Then CCP Falcon being really engaged, something, something.
I'm gonna go ahead and second the motion proposed by the gentleman from Goonswarm, on the grounds that if you're wading through 20 pages of forum horse-hockey (as Col. Potter used to say) to let us all know how much you don't care, you've already got a fair amount of excess biomass that's clearly backed up from your lower intestine to the point where it's coming out of your mouth. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
186
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:11:00 -
[558] - Quote
Captain Aizen1 wrote:Analeesa wrote:Been there since the beginning. just pop up for me? hmm It was on the GTC page for at least a day now.. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
186
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:12:00 -
[559] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:So what Blink was doing was wrong, But Eve Time Code can give you a Free PLEX for every $250 spent..
"New Promo - Your business counts! Starting May 9th 2014, After every $250 spent you will recieve 1 free PLEX" Standard customer loyalty program (if a bit on the miserly side GÇö isn't GÇ£buy 10 get 1 for freeGÇ¥ the standard? ) with no in-game component. So there's no comparison there. How is that any better than what Blink was doing?
Buy a bunch from our reseller get some isk free.. If what Blink is doing is RMT, then so it this. |
Captain Aizen1
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:12:00 -
[560] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Captain Aizen1 wrote:Analeesa wrote:Been there since the beginning. just pop up for me? hmm It was on the GTC page for at least a day now.. oh don't look at that at all never buy gtc.
|
|
Clanggedin Silverbeard
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:12:00 -
[561] - Quote
I WANT MY TOKENS BACK, its both of your fault CCP and SOMER, i spent 49 bil to make tokens for this celebration (wich now should go in plain air???). you favored somer CCP so now its time to make it all right. same as character scamming perhaps? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11166
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:13:00 -
[562] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:No wonder the price for PLEX on the market rose so fast. How did the economist not catch on to this? Is this why he quit? What was CCP's cut of Somer's profits beyond the possible increased PLEX sales? No, Dr. Eyjo is now Rector of the Universtiy of Akureyri. It's a rather prestigious position and I don't blame him at all for leaving CCP for that. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Lord BryanII
38
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:13:00 -
[563] - Quote
After the **** from last year, CCP should have given Somer a relationship manager that knew what was up |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5838
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:15:00 -
[564] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Tippia wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:So what Blink was doing was wrong, But Eve Time Code can give you a Free PLEX for every $250 spent..
"New Promo - Your business counts! Starting May 9th 2014, After every $250 spent you will recieve 1 free PLEX" Standard customer loyalty program (if a bit on the miserly side GÇö isn't GÇ£buy 10 get 1 for freeGÇ¥ the standard? ) with no in-game component. So there's no comparison there. How is that any better than what Blink was doing? Buy a bunch from our reseller get some isk free.. If what Blink is doing is RMT, then so it this.
It's not about what they're doing. It's about who hates who. No one hates Eve Time Code...yet
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11166
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:15:00 -
[565] - Quote
Clanggedin Silverbeard wrote:I WANT MY TOKENS BACK, its both of your fault CCP and SOMER, i spent 49 bil to make tokens for this celebration (wich now should go in plain air???). you favored somer CCP so now its time to make it all right. same as character scamming perhaps? Did you read Somer's front page at all? Supposedly he's paying it back. Whether or not he honors that is up in the air. No idea what kind of stipulations CCP will make either, or what they'll do with the confiscated ISK should they ban Somer's accounts. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
187
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:16:00 -
[566] - Quote
Lord BryanII wrote:After the **** from last year, CCP should have given Somer a relationship manager that knew what was up Or one that ran things through Legal..
I mean even Somer expected it to go through Legal and was told no.. WTF o_0 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23959
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:17:00 -
[567] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:How is that any better than what Blink was doing? It's not RMT. It's also not lying to (the wrong) CCP execs about what you're doing to create a false GÇ£official okGÇ¥ to cover up that RMT. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
0wl
Pocket Pirates
40
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:18:00 -
[568] - Quote
CCP Said they could do this, it's their fault if they didn't check the fine print. I'm not surprised Somer are up and leaving after this. If someone gave you a cow to milk, then came around and slaughtered it in front of you saying "I didn't say you could have the milk." ... What would you do, I know what you'd do, you would say things like "wtf, you're a psycho cow killing crazy person and now please explain to my milk loving kids why there's no milk and a dead cow in the front yard." |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11167
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:18:00 -
[569] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Tippia wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:So what Blink was doing was wrong, But Eve Time Code can give you a Free PLEX for every $250 spent..
"New Promo - Your business counts! Starting May 9th 2014, After every $250 spent you will recieve 1 free PLEX" Standard customer loyalty program (if a bit on the miserly side GÇö isn't GÇ£buy 10 get 1 for freeGÇ¥ the standard? ) with no in-game component. So there's no comparison there. How is that any better than what Blink was doing? Buy a bunch from our reseller get some isk free.. If what Blink is doing is RMT, then so it this. Because they're not doing transactions of any ISK at all. It's basically equivalent to offering a discount on bulk orders. Are you suggesting that ETC retailers not be allowed to offer discounts? Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Thead Enco
Radio New Vegas
190
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:18:00 -
[570] - Quote
Clanggedin Silverbeard wrote:I WANT MY TOKENS BACK, its both of your fault CCP and SOMER, i spent 49 bil to make tokens for this celebration (wich now should go in plain air???). you favored somer CCP so now its time to make it all right. same as character scamming perhaps?
Whelp......
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
|
Clanggedin Silverbeard
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:18:00 -
[571] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Clanggedin Silverbeard wrote:I WANT MY TOKENS BACK, its both of your fault CCP and SOMER, i spent 49 bil to make tokens for this celebration (wich now should go in plain air???). you favored somer CCP so now its time to make it all right. same as character scamming perhaps? Did you read Somer's front page at all? Supposedly he's paying it back. Whether or not he honors that is up in the air. No idea what kind of stipulations CCP will make either, or what they'll do with the confiscated ISK should they ban Somer's accounts.
They are only paying ballance of playing isk you had on the account, not all the tokens wich will go in plain air. I was promessed i can spend them whenever i want, so i was stacking them for the celebration, and now they are all gone, but its not just me with the same problem so i will stop here and let the people talk. this is just bad...
|
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:19:00 -
[572] - Quote
Before posting you should be up to speed on the following:
1: It is now proven that Somer did attempt to screw CCP over (full supporting irrefutable evidence in my older posts and bellow)
2: Blink is finished, whether it is a publicity stunt to gain support or legitimate is unknown, there is no evidence to support either theories with the exception of the unfortunate timing and wording of the announcement which makes it seem like a publicity ploy.
3: It seems shill accounts are being used on this thread to make Blink look like it's the victim.
Proof to back up the first statement:
CCP didn't approve what she did. Somer screwed CCP which is evident in the RTF Somer also linked. (http://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf) This RTF is what Somer said was the finalized proposal of their plan.
As stated here 'Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. ' The lie is the highlighted text. Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8933
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:20:00 -
[573] - Quote
So, having posted in this thread once, I got four tearmails and one accusing me of being on the side of some other RMT group.
This thread delivers.
[ ] Rekt.
[ ] Not Rekt
[x] Tyrannosaurus Rekt. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
187
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:21:00 -
[574] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:Tippia wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:So what Blink was doing was wrong, But Eve Time Code can give you a Free PLEX for every $250 spent..
"New Promo - Your business counts! Starting May 9th 2014, After every $250 spent you will recieve 1 free PLEX" Standard customer loyalty program (if a bit on the miserly side GÇö isn't GÇ£buy 10 get 1 for freeGÇ¥ the standard? ) with no in-game component. So there's no comparison there. How is that any better than what Blink was doing? Buy a bunch from our reseller get some isk free.. If what Blink is doing is RMT, then so it this. Because they're not doing transactions of any ISK at all. It's basically equivalent to offering a discount on bulk orders. Are you suggesting that ETC retailers not be allowed to offer discounts? The free PLEX is isk..
Would it have been better is rather than Blink giving you ISK for your PLEX, they gave, say, ships? Mod's? Whatever.. that adds up to the same value..
In both cases you spend money to get MORE than you paid for. |
Analeesa
Dontgiveaduck Syndrome
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:22:00 -
[575] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So, having posted in this thread once, I got four tearmails and one accusing me of being on the side of some other RMT group.
This thread delivers.
[ ] Rekt.
[ ] Not Rekt
[x] Tyrannosaurus Rekt.
[x] Truth eludes he who does not seek it both eyes wide. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1572
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:23:00 -
[576] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Just to throw my own opinion into the ever-widening ring...
I don't think that with SOMERblink shutting down the issue is settled or resolved. Other than any appropriate punishments as determined and meted out by CCP, I think the real issue here is the ambiguity in the third part policies governing what is and isn't allowed in third party development. As someone who's been trying to get into it, that ambiguity has by far been the largest barrier of entry. The complete mess of official information on the subject is so far scattered throughout blog posts, official articles, wiki entries, and year after year of dev forum posts that it is next to impossible to get clear, unequivocal answers to even some of the most basic questions.
And I don't mean to imply that there is no effort being made by CCP on the matter. I know CCP Foxfour and Falcon, for example, have been extraordinarily active and helpful in the community, but it seems that they badly need reinforcements. If CCP wants to help prevent something like this from happening again the first step would be a clear, official source of centralized information regarding the third party development rules and regulations. All of the ambiguity surrounding the rules as they stand is just a recipe for 'workarounds' and 'clever manipulation' of the rules that could potentially result in more instances of RMT or other rule-breaking such as this one. Indeed.. if I was a 3rd Party henceforth anything I'd do I'd want a signed letter from CCP Legal to hold them accountable.. Clearly taking their word for it amounts to nothing in the face of any bad PR.
As someone who spends almost their entire EVE existence living the metagame...
Learn to recognize when CCP is being metagammed. Especially the clumsy, but effective, metagaming in those emails. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
NeOnicuS
IP Rights
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:24:00 -
[577] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:I mean even Somer expected it to go through Legal and was told no.. +1 to this. Not running things through legal when they requested you do so raises CCP responsibility questions. In addition, not talking to legal doesn't relieve liability. I enjoyed playing blinks, but at this point I think the community as a whole is missing a lot of the facts surrounding this. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11168
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:25:00 -
[578] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:The free PLEX is isk.. No, it's a PLEX. Getting a free PLEX for buying a certain large amount of PLEX is roughly the same thing as making larger packages of PLEX cost less per PLEX than smaller packages, something CCP does in their own sales and which doesn't qualify as RMT at all.
Sniper Smith wrote:Would it have been better is rather than Blink giving you ISK for your PLEX, they gave, say, ships? Mod's? Whatever.. that adds up to the same value.. None of those would have been okay. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Alli Ginthur
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:26:00 -
[579] - Quote
NeOnicuS wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:I mean even Somer expected it to go through Legal and was told no.. +1 to this. Not running things through legal when they requested you do so raises CCP responsibility questions. In addition, not talking to legal doesn't relieve liability. I enjoyed playing blinks, but at this point I think the community as a whole is missing a lot of the facts surrounding this.
They don't care, they got their head on a pike. Now it's time for the festival and then they'll quietly go on their way. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23962
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:27:00 -
[580] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:The free PLEX is isk. No, it's not. The free PLEX is a free PLEX, nothing more. You got a bulk rebate on your out-of-game order that allowed you to pay less out-of-game cash.
At no point does it cross over into any kind of in-game transaction that trips the RMT flag.
e:f;b GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
Carribean Queen
Vadimus Quarrier Works The Big Dirty
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:27:00 -
[581] - Quote
Now, in the way this has gone down and how typical things work in relation to how the laws work -
Are you now going to ban every single player who has used somer blink for aiding and abetting?
And shut down all of the other external gambling sites as well because in some way/some how they are all RMT'ing. |
Thead Enco
Radio New Vegas
190
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:28:00 -
[582] - Quote
Clanggedin Silverbeard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Clanggedin Silverbeard wrote:I WANT MY TOKENS BACK, its both of your fault CCP and SOMER, i spent 49 bil to make tokens for this celebration (wich now should go in plain air???). you favored somer CCP so now its time to make it all right. same as character scamming perhaps? Did you read Somer's front page at all? Supposedly he's paying it back. Whether or not he honors that is up in the air. No idea what kind of stipulations CCP will make either, or what they'll do with the confiscated ISK should they ban Somer's accounts. They are only paying ballance of playing isk you had on the account, not all the tokens wich will go in plain air. I was promessed i can spend them whenever i want, so i was stacking them for the celebration, and now they are all gone, but its not just me with the same problem so i will stop here and let the people talk. this is just bad...
You asking for your "Tokens" back is like asking your local Casino that's "going to the mattresses "I want my money mein"
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23962
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:30:00 -
[583] - Quote
Carribean Queen wrote:Now, in the way this has gone down and how typical things work in relation to how the laws work -
Are you now going to ban every single player who has used somer blink for aiding and abetting?
And shut down all of the other external gambling sites as well because in some way/some how they are all RMT'ing. Why would they do that? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Carribean Queen
Vadimus Quarrier Works The Big Dirty
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:31:00 -
[584] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Carribean Queen wrote:Now, in the way this has gone down and how typical things work in relation to how the laws work -
Are you now going to ban every single player who has used somer blink for aiding and abetting?
And shut down all of the other external gambling sites as well because in some way/some how they are all RMT'ing. Why would they do that?
for helping perpetuate this RMT scheme. It wouldn't have been so successful if people weren't using it and leading to this mighty outcry. |
Clanggedin Silverbeard
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:32:00 -
[585] - Quote
Carribean Queen wrote:Now, in the way this has gone down and how typical things work in relation to how the laws work -
Are you now going to ban every single player who has used somer blink for aiding and abetting?
And shut down all of the other external gambling sites as well because in some way/some how they are all RMT'ing.
they actually did not close somer, so...
|
Drealar
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
143
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:33:00 -
[586] - Quote
Carribean Queen wrote:Now, in the way this has gone down and how typical things work in relation to how the laws work -
Are you now going to ban every single player who has used somer blink for aiding and abetting?
And shut down all of the other external gambling sites as well because in some way/some how they are all RMT'ing.
are you currently high as balls on crystal meth? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11168
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:34:00 -
[587] - Quote
Carribean Queen wrote:Tippia wrote:Carribean Queen wrote:Now, in the way this has gone down and how typical things work in relation to how the laws work -
Are you now going to ban every single player who has used somer blink for aiding and abetting?
And shut down all of the other external gambling sites as well because in some way/some how they are all RMT'ing. Why would they do that? for helping perpetuate this RMT scheme. It wouldn't have been so successful if people weren't using it and leading to this mighty outcry. Are you for real? Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Dolph Carebear
Adohivatal
59
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:35:00 -
[588] - Quote
Clanggedin Silverbeard wrote:I WANT MY TOKENS BACK, its both of your fault CCP and SOMER, i spent 49 bil to make tokens for this celebration (wich now should go in plain air???). you favored somer CCP so now its time to make it all right. same as character scamming perhaps?
49b? Jesus man you need help. |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:35:00 -
[589] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Tippia wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:So what Blink was doing was wrong, But Eve Time Code can give you a Free PLEX for every $250 spent..
"New Promo - Your business counts! Starting May 9th 2014, After every $250 spent you will recieve 1 free PLEX" Standard customer loyalty program (if a bit on the miserly side GÇö isn't GÇ£buy 10 get 1 for freeGÇ¥ the standard? ) with no in-game component. So there's no comparison there. How is that any better than what Blink was doing? Buy a bunch from our reseller get some isk free.. If what Blink is doing is RMT, then so it this. Geez it's like people can't keep straight in-game versus out-of-game.
Eve Time Code's promotion is not contracting you an extra plex in-game purchased from an isk slush fund. They're giving you another plex from the out-of-game supply. The ETCs they sell are codes they buy from CCP. The isk Somer was padding onto plex "convenience sales" was in-game isk. RMT requires moving in-game stuff for out-of-game money.
Other than the way that all PLEX / ISK transactions are RMT of course. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23965
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:36:00 -
[590] - Quote
Carribean Queen wrote:for helping perpetuate this RMT scheme. But they're not doing that.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
gawrshmapooo
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
46
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:37:00 -
[591] - Quote
Dolph Carebear wrote:Clanggedin Silverbeard wrote:I WANT MY TOKENS BACK, its both of your fault CCP and SOMER, i spent 49 bil to make tokens for this celebration (wich now should go in plain air???). you favored somer CCP so now its time to make it all right. same as character scamming perhaps? 49b? Jesus man you need help.
Addiction is realGäó |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
336
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:38:00 -
[592] - Quote
gawrshmapooo wrote:Dolph Carebear wrote:Clanggedin Silverbeard wrote:I WANT MY TOKENS BACK, its both of your fault CCP and SOMER, i spent 49 bil to make tokens for this celebration (wich now should go in plain air???). you favored somer CCP so now its time to make it all right. same as character scamming perhaps? 49b? Jesus man you need help. Addiction is realGäó
EVE is Real. CCP said so |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
188
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:38:00 -
[593] - Quote
Anyone that doesn't see PLEX as ISK needs their head examined. Until such time as PLEX can't be sold at Jita, it's just a bulk amount of ISK. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11171
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:41:00 -
[594] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Anyone that doesn't see PLEX as ISK needs their head examined. Until such time as PLEX can't be sold at Jita, it's just a bulk amount of ISK. No, it's a PLEX. PLEX can be traded for ISK. PLEX does not create ISK. So suggesting there's an equivalence is absurd. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23965
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:41:00 -
[595] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Anyone that doesn't see PLEX as ISK needs their head examined. Wrong way around. Anyone who does see them as the same needs to have their head examined because they're not. PLEX is PLEX, ISK is ISK, and an out-of-game sale of PLEX codes is an out-of-game sale of PLEX codes.
Quote:Until such time as PLEX can't be sold at Jita, it's just a bulk amount of ISK. Close, but not quite. Until such time as a PLEX is redeemed and sold in Jita, it is just a PLEX. (Actually, afterwards, it's still just a PLEX GÇö it's just not yours any more.)
e:f;b agaIn! Dammit James, stop sniping my posts. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:42:00 -
[596] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Anyone that doesn't see PLEX as ISK needs their head examined. Until such time as PLEX can't be sold at Jita, it's just a bulk amount of ISK. There's a nuance there that you're missing. Something about the direction that real money and in-game goods are flowing. Its ok in one direction and not ok in the other. |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:43:00 -
[597] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:gawrshmapooo wrote: Addiction is realGäó
EVE is Real. CCP said so Features & Ideas Discussion: Add "the shakes" to pilots who take boosters if they don't keep snorting more pills. And every few minutes you talk in local without your control, asking other pilots for just a few isk to get one more hit man, I'll get cleaned up starting tomorrow I swear. |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:46:00 -
[598] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Anyone that doesn't see PLEX as ISK needs their head examined. Until such time as PLEX can't be sold at Jita, it's just a bulk amount of ISK. Ok in that case anyone who has ever bought or sold a PLEX from any source, in game or out of game, is guilty of RMTing. Ban everyone, issue sorted. Next? |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
88
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:49:00 -
[599] - Quote
And so concludes the longest running, most profitable, most meta, most ****-in-your-face scam in EVE history. No other scam will ever come close. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23968
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:51:00 -
[600] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:And so concludes the longest running, most profitable, most meta, most ****-in-your-face scam in EVE history. No other scam will ever come close. Indeed. That's the only good spin on the thing that I can think of. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
aniel
Babylon Knights The Unthinkables
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:51:00 -
[601] - Quote
bring back somer please , it was fun |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11173
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:52:00 -
[602] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:And so concludes the longest running, most profitable, most meta, most ****-in-your-face scam in EVE history. No other scam will ever come close. He got greedy and tried to scam CCP. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5988
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:53:00 -
[603] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I just burned a PLEX to come back here and say: This Best PLEX expenditure ever.
If all SOMER accounts involved are swiftly banned and all the isk confiscated, Doc is in agreement, and he might have to burn a few more. We'll see how that first part goes...will be watching what CCP does.
- SOMER, didn't your daddy ever tell you: Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8936
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:53:00 -
[604] - Quote
aniel wrote:bring back somer please , it was fun
I don't think anything was found to be wrong with their game.
But the operator decided that if he couldn't RMT, he'd just shut it down. Whether that's a fit of pique, for damage control, or to hide a deeper problem is still up in the air. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
603
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:55:00 -
[605] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
did you seriously make that char just to say that? wow.. stop trying to defend yourself with new alts all the time.
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5291
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:55:00 -
[606] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:How is that any better than what Blink was doing?
Buy a bunch from our reseller get some isk free.. If what Blink is doing is RMT, then so it this.
Nope. That is "buy a bunch of PLEX codes, get *another PLEX code* free." The reseller still pays CCP for the plex code, and no ISK is involved, so it can't be RMT (trading ISK for cash)
Somer's scheme was "we'll give you an ISK bribe to steer your PLEX business to us." Which results in Somer getting cash in exchange for ISK. Which is RMT. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:58:00 -
[607] - Quote
Haha no one is gonna unsub because of Somer, some may actually come back if CCP clears up some blurred lines |
bacon lettuce tomato
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:58:00 -
[608] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:bacon lettuce tomato wrote:CCP is going to lose a lot of PLEX sales and possibly subscriptions as a result of BLINK closing
If anything this is what is actually "screwing them over"
did you seriously make that char just to say that? wow.. stop trying to defend yourself with new alts all the time.
-+Do you think I'm Somer?
BTW I heard he made over 100k through all this.
I bet you're jelly |
Thead Enco
Radio New Vegas
190
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 01:59:00 -
[609] - Quote
John Ending wrote:Haha no one is gonna unsub because of Somer, some may actually come back if CCP clears up some blurred lines
This^^^^^^^^^^^^
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5294
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:00:00 -
[610] - Quote
John Ending wrote:Haha no one is gonna unsub because of Somer, some may actually come back if CCP clears up some blurred lines
*Beat Beat Beat* Everybody get up... "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11175
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:00:00 -
[611] - Quote
God damn I wish I weren't banned from their public channel on all of my characters. I'm too lazy to make another one.
I can just imagine the butthurt, especially at the time of the announcement. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Arec Bardwin
1506
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:00:00 -
[612] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote: -+Do you think I'm Somer?
I'd like to think you are. Makes your posts quite entertaining
|
Clanggedin Silverbeard
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:00:00 -
[613] - Quote
John Ending wrote:Haha no one is gonna unsub because of Somer, some may actually come back if CCP clears up some blurred lines
Even tho i was highly addicted to SOMER, i agree no one gonna unsub casue of somer, but also no one gonna come back casue ccp cleared some lines :D
Cheers. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:03:00 -
[614] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Tippia wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I just burned a PLEX to come back here and say: This Best PLEX expenditure ever. If all SOMER accounts involved are swiftly banned and all the isk confiscated, Doc is in agreement, and he might have to burn a few more. We'll see how that first part goes...will be watching what CCP does. - SOMER, didn't your daddy ever teach you: Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. DOC is that you? ~ we're flying high, we're watching the world pass us by ~
|
|
CCP Falcon
8135
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:05:00 -
[615] - Quote
Hey guys,
WeGÇÖre aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down.
WeGÇÖre also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and itGÇÖs very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors.
In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.
Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets.
While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.
WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM.
This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM.
Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5295
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:07:00 -
[616] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:God damn I wish I weren't banned from their public channel on all of my characters. I'm too lazy to make another one.
I can just imagine the butthurt, especially at the time of the announcement.
Blink Channel wrote:Channel MOTD: SOMER Blink | http://cogdev.net/blink/>cogdev.net/blink/_________________________________ Announcement on the site. Refunds are in progress. It's going to take time - there was 1.4T on deposit when we closed shop. Thank you all for years of getting to do this. It was a great experience, and a majority of you were awesome people to interact with. This channel is closed now.
300 people in channel and absolutely no activity, sadly. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
282
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:07:00 -
[617] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:aniel wrote:bring back somer please , it was fun I don't think anything was found to be wrong with their game. But the operator decided that if he couldn't RMT, he'd just shut it down. Whether that's a fit of pique, for damage control, or to hide a deeper problem is still up in the air. It shows just how much a 'community service provider' he really was |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
604
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:08:00 -
[618] - Quote
bacon lettuce tomato wrote:[
I bet you're jelly
Why would I be? I can still log in perfectly fine with my character so there is nothing to be jelly about :) |
Cherry Yeyo
62
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:11:00 -
[619] - Quote
Ace Boogi wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:aniel wrote:bring back somer please , it was fun I don't think anything was found to be wrong with their game. But the operator decided that if he couldn't RMT, he'd just shut it down. Whether that's a fit of pique, for damage control, or to hide a deeper problem is still up in the air. It shows just how much a 'community service provider' he really was Chribba is a community service provider because he doesnt expect anything in return for what he does, Somer on the other hand expected a great many things for what he does/did.
CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Alli Ginthur
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:12:00 -
[620] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:God damn I wish I weren't banned from their public channel on all of my characters. I'm too lazy to make another one.
I can just imagine the butthurt, especially at the time of the announcement. Blink Channel wrote:Channel MOTD: SOMER Blink | http://cogdev.net/blink/>cogdev.net/blink/_________________________________ Announcement on the site. Refunds are in progress. It's going to take time - there was 1.4T on deposit when we closed shop. Thank you all for years of getting to do this. It was a great experience, and a majority of you were awesome people to interact with. This channel is closed now. 300 people in channel and absolutely no activity, sadly.
[00:44:26] EVE System > Channel default access set to Moderated by Andrev Nox. This channel is now effectively running in moderated mode. |
|
Ralk Orin
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:18:00 -
[621] - Quote
Well I took a year break from EVE and the only reason I kept one account up was to play blink and set some skills. I am sad to see Blink go the way of the Dodo. I did get the remainder of my isk I had deposited with them back.
I understand his reasoning for shutting down the site, the witch hunt that is this investigation and community uproar and calling for Somer's head.
I think now that GTC's have been removed and plex can only be sold at CCP's price they need to remove all third party suppliers. and just have CCP as the only source of plex. that would pretty much prevent this from happening again. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5295
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:18:00 -
[622] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.
I was kind of hoping that Somer would go full Cartman mode and sit on the trillion ISK in deposits. But that's only because good schadenfreude gets me... excited.
I'm also glad that CCP has no intention of interfering with the return (or not) of assets, since there's absolutely nothing wrong with EVE deposit banks taking their depositors money and laughing all the way to their soon-to-fail bank.
It's certainly revealing that Somer's response to not being able to cash out is to quit. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
721
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:19:00 -
[623] - Quote
Regardless of the wrongs or rights of Somer sad to see it torn down by what is essentially an orchestrated witch hunt by those with their own agenda rather than on the balance of evidence. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5991
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:19:00 -
[624] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.
Do ya' think?
What's the penalty for directly scamming CCP?
/for the second time The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11180
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:21:00 -
[625] - Quote
Ralk Orin wrote:witch hunt
Nope. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3433
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:21:00 -
[626] - Quote
One less RMT organisation.
I do wish that they had stolen everything, however. Would have been the perfect ending. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
795
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:23:00 -
[627] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:CCP Falcon is hopefully the good egg that targets the bad ones in the basket
Confirming CCP Falcon is short for CCP Eleonora Falcon, but it was deemed nonmanly enough to warrant leaving out the 'Eleonora'.
|
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
282
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:25:00 -
[628] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, WeGÇÖre aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down. WeGÇÖre also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and itGÇÖs very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors. In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. About a year late , but you guys we're absolutely on the ball with it this time around. I'm very impressed with how CCP and the CSM came together, acted swiftly, and communicated with the playerbase. It is good to see that you guys saw through the 'business proposal' and recognized that in the end, Somer's goals perhaps weren't altruistic and for the benefit of the community. In contrast, I feel Somer's response, both initially when suspending the promotion, and now, when shutting down, speaks volumes regarding his true intentions and how he views the non-Blinking Eve community. |
Lido Seahawk
Norr Amalgamated Industries
169
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:25:00 -
[629] - Quote
This is bummer. I liked blink.
May I have your stuff? |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
38
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:25:00 -
[630] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Boom Boom Longtime wrote:CCP Falcon is hopefully the good egg that targets the bad ones in the basket Confirming CCP Falcon is short for CCP Eleonora Falcon, but it was deemed nonmanly enough to warrant leaving out the 'Eleonora'.
With the hours he's been keeping lately, he should have picked CCP Nighthawk as his name instead. |
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
179
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:28:00 -
[631] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Regardless of the wrongs or rights of Somer sad to see it torn down by what is essentially an orchestrated witch hunt by those with their own agenda rather than on the balance of evidence.
Please elaborate on the "orchestrated witch hunt by those with their own agendas" as so far there has been no organized attack on Somer for personal or group gain other than "this is dumb, stop it."
tia. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
188
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:28:00 -
[632] - Quote
You know what Blink should do.. Become their own GTC Seller. All that's required is a Blink account.
Then they can make all the profit.. And they would be bigger than ever now that everyone has seen that when they shut down they didn't just take the isk and run.
The tears of all the people crying over what they did would be delicious.
And it would be a great FU to CCP who in every way brought this on themselves.
They allowed Blink to do they original GTC deal for Years. THEY gave Blink the Shiny Scorps and other ships. THEY didn't put blinks proposal through Legal, where questions would be asked like "How will you determine your Buy prices?" and other common sense questions.
CCP needs to step up for all their faults in this mess.. Rather than throwing Blink under the bus again. The smallest amount of common sense on CCP's part would have prevented this mess ages ago. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5296
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:28:00 -
[633] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.
Do ya' think? What's the penalty for directly scamming CCP? /for the second time
To be fair, I think the first time was actually endorsed by CCP, thus the week they were given to massively expand wind down operations.
Sniper Smith wrote:CCP needs to step up for all their faults in this mess.. Rather than throwing Blink under the bus again. The smallest amount of common sense on CCP's part would have prevented this mess ages ago.
Yes, CCP should own up to their faults, but Somer's proposal is intentionally misleading from its first line. You don't get to blame the people you tricked for being unhappy that you tricked them.
Again, look at the AHARM example. They got slapped with a pretty hefty fine for using an exploit even though they had (in an obfuscated way) petitioned it twice and gotten the OK both times. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
282
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:29:00 -
[634] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:God damn I wish I weren't banned from their public channel on all of my characters. I'm too lazy to make another one.
I can just imagine the butthurt, especially at the time of the announcement. Cracked up reading that immediately followed by Lisa's quote in your sig. As for the channel, I was there when it died. It was pretty tame, Andrev locked it up swiftly once people started talking about RMT - couldn't have any dissent, right up until the very end |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2296
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:30:00 -
[635] - Quote
Ralk Orin wrote:Well I took a year break from EVE and the only reason I kept one account up was to play blink and set some skills. I am sad to see Blink go the way of the Dodo. I did get the remainder of my isk I had deposited with them back.
I understand his reasoning for shutting down the site, the witch hunt that is this investigation and community uproar and calling for Somer's head.
I think now that GTC's have been removed and plex can only be sold at CCP's price they need to remove all third party suppliers. and just have CCP as the only source of plex. that would pretty much prevent this from happening again. It is my understanding that this issue has very little to do with third party suppliers and everything to do with one individual offering an in-game incentive to use a referral link. Just because the referral link was for the purchase of PLEX does not mean that all PLEX sales by every third party has anything to do with the issue. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
721
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:31:00 -
[636] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ralk Orin wrote:witch hunt Nope.
Given the lengths some have gone to to stir up anti-blink sentiment to say there has been no witch hunt at all is hardly accurate. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11185
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:34:00 -
[637] - Quote
Rroff wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ralk Orin wrote:witch hunt Nope. Given the lengths some have gone to to stir up anti-blink sentiment to say there has been no witch hunt at all is hardly accurate. Anti-blink sentiment is pretty much all somer's own doing. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
106
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:34:00 -
[638] - Quote
If only half this much effort was put into fixing the game, we wouldn't have had teams taking a several day siesta this week. I lost more isk due to teams than I did in 3 years of blink. |
Cherry Yeyo
64
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:34:00 -
[639] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Ralk Orin wrote:Well I took a year break from EVE and the only reason I kept one account up was to play blink and set some skills. I am sad to see Blink go the way of the Dodo. I did get the remainder of my isk I had deposited with them back.
I understand his reasoning for shutting down the site, the witch hunt that is this investigation and community uproar and calling for Somer's head.
I think now that GTC's have been removed and plex can only be sold at CCP's price they need to remove all third party suppliers. and just have CCP as the only source of plex. that would pretty much prevent this from happening again. It is my understanding that this issue has very little to do with third party suppliers and everything to do with one individual offering an in-game incentive to use a referral link. Just because the referral link was for the purchase of PLEX does not mean that all PLEX sales by every third party has anything to do with the issue. The guy was out of line, everybody recognized it last year and then they basically deceived a VP at CCP into signing off on the same thing this year.
Incentives to use his button rather than anyone elses CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5296
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:35:00 -
[640] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Given the lengths some have gone to to stir up anti-blink sentiment to say there has been no witch hunt at all is hardly accurate.
Quoting the proposal and communications that Somer posted. Such nefarious lengths.
Much hunt. Many witches. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3436
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:37:00 -
[641] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Rroff wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ralk Orin wrote:witch hunt Nope. Given the lengths some have gone to to stir up anti-blink sentiment to say there has been no witch hunt at all is hardly accurate. Anti-blink sentiment is pretty much all somer's own doing.
Exactly.
If Somer had avoided dabbling in RMT then the only people hating on them would be rival gambling providers. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2894
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:38:00 -
[642] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Rroff wrote:Given the lengths some have gone to to stir up anti-blink sentiment to say there has been no witch hunt at all is hardly accurate. Quoting the proposal and communications that Somer posted. Such nefarious lengths. Much hunt. Many witches.
Such wow.
Well, all I can say is that what has basically happened is that Somer has flipped the table, tossed his toys out of the pram, taken his ball, and gone home. Because he got taken to task for trying to pull a fast one on CCP. As much as I liked the occasional Blink game, there's no room for RMT in this game.
On the other hand, Dinsdale should be pleased. one less RMT cartel to control CCP. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15727
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:40:00 -
[643] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:That's been there for a day or so. They're fully aware of it. after 2h+ of trying to figure out what your signature was a reference to [if not my uncomfortable bad posting] I was beginning to trip out. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8942
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:41:00 -
[644] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote: On the other hand, Dinsdale should be pleased. one less RMT cartel to control CCP.
Dinsdale is pissed. CCP Falcon slapped him down earlier, twice, for being the anklebiting sack of crap he is.
He's pushed his luck pretty well thus far, but I think they've reached the end of their patience. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2298
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:45:00 -
[645] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Ralk Orin wrote:Well I took a year break from EVE and the only reason I kept one account up was to play blink and set some skills. I am sad to see Blink go the way of the Dodo. I did get the remainder of my isk I had deposited with them back.
I understand his reasoning for shutting down the site, the witch hunt that is this investigation and community uproar and calling for Somer's head.
I think now that GTC's have been removed and plex can only be sold at CCP's price they need to remove all third party suppliers. and just have CCP as the only source of plex. that would pretty much prevent this from happening again. It is my understanding that this issue has very little to do with third party suppliers and everything to do with one individual offering an in-game incentive to use a referral link. Just because the referral link was for the purchase of PLEX does not mean that all PLEX sales by every third party has anything to do with the issue. The guy was out of line, everybody recognized it last year and then they basically deceived a VP at CCP into signing off on the same thing this year. Incentives to use his button rather than anyone elses It's an important distinction to make though that incentives by themselves are not a bad thing, only when they involve in-game items or services (in this case trading PLEX for higher than market price). |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3436
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:46:00 -
[646] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:De'Veldrin wrote: On the other hand, Dinsdale should be pleased. one less RMT cartel to control CCP.
Dinsdale is pissed. CCP Falcon slapped him down earlier, twice, for being the anklebiting sack of crap he is. He's pushed his luck pretty well thus far, but I think they've reached the end of their patience.
I hope that CCP go light on Dinsdale's trolling if they take any action at all, he's an amazing source of forum comedy.
The only person that makes me laugh more on these boards is Unsuccessful At Everything. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Nimrod78
Sardaukar Industries
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:46:00 -
[647] - Quote
If proven to be true, this is another scandal, Somerblink RMTing. That would mean Somerblink and Co cheated, manipulated outcomes of blinks and winners to benefit them because when it comes to real money, people get weird and would do anything to keep making money. Somerblink defraued people who played on their site and your game was the vehicle that they used to perpetrate their activities. They have cheated the community and CCP. I am not a lawyer, but I would say that this is fraud and the numbers involved are astronomical. I have played Somerblink over the years and have seen some shady/questionable things. Whenever someone is found guilty, the punishment usually includes restitution. Other players and myself that have played with large sums of isk should be compensated. At least the amount of tokens and 5% of deposited funds should be rewarded to all players. Be assured that Somblink's coffers can take the hit.
You have to ask yourself at what point will/would Somerblink start changing the dynamics of our game? Just like the giant corporations in the real world, they are not too big to fail. Shut them down. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
608
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:48:00 -
[648] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote: On the other hand, Dinsdale should be pleased. one less RMT cartel to control CCP.
pretty sure he will claim that the 0.0 overlords pressured CCP to do this for some nefarious reason
|
Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1136
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:49:00 -
[649] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:De'Veldrin wrote: On the other hand, Dinsdale should be pleased. one less RMT cartel to control CCP.
pretty sure he will claim that the 0.0 overlords pressured CCP to do this for some nefarious reason
the mittani sends his regards |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2894
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:50:00 -
[650] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:De'Veldrin wrote: On the other hand, Dinsdale should be pleased. one less RMT cartel to control CCP.
Dinsdale is pissed. CCP Falcon slapped him down earlier, twice, for being the anklebiting sack of crap he is. He's pushed his luck pretty well thus far, but I think they've reached the end of their patience.
Bout time. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11187
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:50:00 -
[651] - Quote
Dinsdale shouldn't be banned or anything like that. But calling him out was pretty funny. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2894
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:53:00 -
[652] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Lady Naween wrote:De'Veldrin wrote: On the other hand, Dinsdale should be pleased. one less RMT cartel to control CCP.
pretty sure he will claim that the 0.0 overlords pressured CCP to do this for some nefarious reason the mittani sends his regards
Actually could you pass long a message. I've got a proposal I want to get his opinion on. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1136
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:54:00 -
[653] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Actually could you pass long a message. I've got a proposal I want to get his opinion on.
50 million ISK and I will make sure he gets it |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2894
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:58:00 -
[654] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Actually could you pass long a message. I've got a proposal I want to get his opinion on. 50 million ISK and I will make sure he gets it
De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1325
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:03:00 -
[655] - Quote
Let's be realistic, regardless of what the CCP verdict was on this case, SOMER was never going to be allowed to survive. The community demanded their pound of flesh, and that's what they got. Although some won't be happy until people have been burnt at the stake. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8944
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:04:00 -
[656] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote: The only person that makes me laugh more on these boards is Unsuccessful At Everything.
That guy is the king. Hands down. So many spit takes. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
808
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:09:00 -
[657] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Your catlet looks tasty.
Darn you Sabriz, I literally cannot call cats anything other then catlets anymore, my girlfriend feels the same way, and it's making me crazy :P |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
110
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:09:00 -
[658] - Quote
Nimrod78 wrote:If proven to be true, this is another scandal, Somerblink RMTing. That would mean Somerblink and Co cheated, manipulated outcomes of blinks and winners to benefit them because when it comes to real money, people get weird and would do anything to keep making money. Somerblink defraued people who played on their site and your game was the vehicle that they used to perpetrate their activities. They have cheated the community and CCP. I am not a lawyer, but I would say that this is fraud and the numbers involved are astronomical. I have played Somerblink over the years and have seen some shady/questionable things. Whenever someone is found guilty, the punishment usually includes restitution. Other players and myself that have played with large sums of isk should be compensated. At least the amount of tokens and 5% of deposited funds should be rewarded to all players. Be assured that Somblink's coffers can take the hit.
You have to ask yourself at what point will/would Somerblink start changing the dynamics of our game? Just like the giant corporations in the real world, they are not too big to fail. Shut them down.
You might want to catch up... |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
721
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:10:00 -
[659] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Let's be realistic, regardless of what the CCP verdict was on this case, SOMER was never going to be allowed to survive. The community demanded their pound of flesh, and that's what they got. Although some won't be happy until people have been burnt at the stake.
Sadly seems to be a fair amount of "can't manage to become a success so can't stand to see others become a success" behind a good bit of the attacking of somer, don't really know enough about what somer does behind the scenes as to whether they were in the wrong or not or brought it on themselves or not but have noticed the efforts some have gone to in an effort to bring somer down with poorly hidden agendas of their own. |
Happy Squid
Squids In Space
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:11:00 -
[660] - Quote
Everything must come to an end, as sad as it is :<
Now where will I find hoomans to work in my mines?:(
I am going to miss the chat most of all, it was a glorious place too be in :3 Always something fun going on, now that's no more either so yea.. That kind of sucks..
Long live the squid uprising. |
|
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
91
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:12:00 -
[661] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:n the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
608
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:13:00 -
[662] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:the mittani sends his regards
I KNEW it!
grr goons.. and all that.. ^^
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2300
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:13:00 -
[663] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Let's be realistic, regardless of what the CCP verdict was on this case, SOMER was never going to be allowed to survive. The community demanded their pound of flesh, and that's what they got. Although some won't be happy until people have been burnt at the stake. Sadly seems to be a fair amount of "can't manage to become a success so can't stand to see others become a success" behind a good bit of the attacking of somer, don't really know enough about what somer does behind the scenes as to whether they were in the wrong or not or brought it on themselves or not but have noticed the efforts some have gone to in an effort to bring somer down with poorly hidden agendas of their own. If you don't know enough about what SOMER did to have so many people upset then perhaps you should read through the thread and find out before accusing those in it of having nefarious agendas. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10952
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:15:00 -
[664] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Let's be realistic, regardless of what the CCP verdict was on this case, SOMER was never going to be allowed to survive. The community demanded their pound of flesh, and that's what they got. Although some won't be happy until people have been burnt at the stake.
People who played his lotteries would have continued to do so. Somer would have had to come up with a different way of monetizing his site, and even if it makes millions it's fine as long as it doesn't involve anything that remotely resembles a conversion of ISK to real money. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2302
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:16:00 -
[665] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:n the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel. Besides being incredibly inappropriate, all I see in your comment is a quote of a reasonable statement supported by SOMER's own document and declaring it to be "spin". In what way is Falcon twisting or mincing words in that comment? |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5299
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:21:00 -
[666] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Let's be realistic, regardless of what the CCP verdict was on this case, SOMER was never going to be allowed to survive. The community demanded their pound of flesh, and that's what they got. Although some won't be happy until people have been burnt at the stake. Sadly seems to be a fair amount of "can't manage to become a success so can't stand to see others become a success" behind a good bit of the attacking of somer, don't really know enough about what somer does behind the scenes as to whether they were in the wrong or not or brought it on themselves or not but have noticed the efforts some have gone to in an effort to bring somer down with poorly hidden agendas of their own.
http://i.imgur.com/SVUG3HM.jpg
There's been very little complaint in this thread about Somer's legitimate dealings (ISK gambling, whatever shills they might/might not have, etc) and the only reason Blink is down right now is because Somer chose to shut it down.
Blink doesn't run anywhere near afoul of the EULA. It's the affiliate RMT scheme that did after the last one had quite definitively been shut down. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
721
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:24:00 -
[667] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote: If you don't know enough about what SOMER did to have so many people upset then perhaps you should read through the thread and find out before accusing those in it of having nefarious agendas.
I understand the basics of it I just don't have enough (factual) information to know/care if what somer is doing is "legal", meanwhile some of the biggest sources of anti-somer sentiment are easier to break down the motives behind what they are doing which are more often that not regardless of whether somer should or shouldn't be operating (EDIT: or in regard to post above methods of operating) far from orientating in any real concerns as to whether what somer is doing is wrong or not. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10954
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:27:00 -
[668] - Quote
Rroff wrote:I understand the basics of it I just don't have enough (factual) information to know/care if what somer is doing is "legal", meanwhile some of the biggest sources of anti-somer sentiment are easier to break down the motives behind what they are doing which are more often that not regardless of whether somer should or shouldn't be operating (EDIT: or in regard to post above methods of operating) far from orientating in any real concerns as to whether what somer is doing is wrong or not.
If you're trying to figure out the "motive" you'll only be sorely disappointed. EVE players don't like it when another player presumes to be above the rules. The outrage was entirely justified IMO. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:27:00 -
[669] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:n the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel.
Not to be impolite, but are you stupid? Falcon is being more polite here than I would be because Somer's proposal that he gave CCP isn't actually what he did. Go read the document Somer sent them. Pay particular attention to the "no bonus isk" bit and the subtle weasely last line that betrays his actual intent.
It's not spin, it's reading comprehension. Come back when you get some. |
Cherry Yeyo
65
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:27:00 -
[670] - Quote
Andski wrote:People who played his lotteries would have continued to do so. Somer would have had to come up with a different way of monetizing his site, and even if it makes millions it's fine as long as it doesn't involve anything that remotely resembles a conversion of ISK to real money. At only 1000-2000 users per day this would never happen, they only thing he had to monetize was gobs of isk
CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
|
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
723
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:30:00 -
[671] - Quote
Andski wrote: If you're trying to figure out the "motive" you'll only be sorely disappointed. EVE players don't like it when another player presumes to be above the rules. The outrage was entirely justified IMO.
Not trying to figure out the motives. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10954
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:30:00 -
[672] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:Andski wrote:People who played his lotteries would have continued to do so. Somer would have had to come up with a different way of monetizing his site, and even if it makes millions it's fine as long as it doesn't involve anything that remotely resembles a conversion of ISK to real money. At only 1000-2000 users per day this would never happen, they only thing he had to monetize was gobs of isk
I'm not suggesting it would make millions, I'm saying that it doesn't matter how successful he is at monetizing his site as long as it doesn't hint of RMT. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Dolly Darko
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:33:00 -
[673] - Quote
I wanted to thank CCP actually. I enjoy two things in EVE, Wormholes and Blink. You are ruining both. Thanks. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2303
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:36:00 -
[674] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:n the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel. Not to be impolite, but are you stupid? Falcon is being more polite here than I would be because Somer's proposal that he gave CCP isn't actually what he did. Go read the document Somer sent them. Pay particular attention to the "no bonus isk" bit and the subtle weasely last line that betrays his actual intent. It's not spin, it's reading comprehension. Come back when you get some. To play devil's advocate here (and to be clear, I am in no way condoning the post you quoted) Somer's proposal should never have been approved in the first place because the bonus isk isn't what makes this a case of RMT, it is the fact that an in-game service was being offered for using the referral link. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11193
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:43:00 -
[675] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Let's be realistic, regardless of what the CCP verdict was on this case, SOMER was never going to be allowed to survive. The community demanded their pound of flesh, and that's what they got. Although some won't be happy until people have been burnt at the stake. Sadly seems to be a fair amount of "can't manage to become a success so can't stand to see others become a success" behind a good bit of the attacking of somer, don't really know enough about what somer does behind the scenes as to whether they were in the wrong or not or brought it on themselves or not but have noticed the efforts some have gone to in an effort to bring somer down with poorly hidden agendas of their own. There's enough that isn't behind the scenes to make what they did pretty clearly and unequivocally wrong under the EULA. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11193
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:45:00 -
[676] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel. The PLEX market will be fine. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
2059
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:47:00 -
[677] - Quote
Hey, just wanted to post a thank you to the ccp community team.
I for one held a simple stance: either everyone gets to RMT or no one does. No favoritism in eve. I an very happy to see ccp's quick and effective resolution of this situation.
So again, thank you. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3437
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:48:00 -
[678] - Quote
Nimrod78 wrote:If proven to be true, this is another scandal, Somerblink RMTing. That would mean Somerblink and Co cheated, manipulated outcomes of blinks and winners to benefit them because when it comes to real money, people get weird and would do anything to keep making money. Somerblink defraued people who played on their site and your game was the vehicle that they used to perpetrate their activities. They have cheated the community and CCP. I am not a lawyer, but I would say that this is fraud and the numbers involved are astronomical. I have played Somerblink over the years and have seen some shady/questionable things. Whenever someone is found guilty, the punishment usually includes restitution. Other players and myself that have played with large sums of isk should be compensated. At least the amount of tokens and 5% of deposited funds should be rewarded to all players. Be assured that Somblink's coffers can take the hit.
You have to ask yourself at what point will/would Somerblink start changing the dynamics of our game? Just like the giant corporations in the real world, they are not too big to fail. Shut them down.
SOMER Blink have always had the right to defraud you in-game via any legal, in-game means, such as tricking you into participating in lotteries (honest or dishonest).
In game theft is not fraud. Other actions may, however, be a breach of EULA rules related to RMT.
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Your catlet looks tasty.
Darn you Sabriz, I literally cannot call cats anything other then catlets anymore, my girlfriend feels the same way, and it's making me crazy :P
Changing vocabulary is just one of the griefing-related services I offer. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
929
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:50:00 -
[679] - Quote
I am shocked and overjoyed that things turned out this way. I didn't exactly get along with somer apparently I asked too many questions. As it turns out I was asking all the right questions.
CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11199
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:51:00 -
[680] - Quote
Dolly Darko wrote:I wanted to thank CCP actually. I enjoy two things in EVE, Wormholes and Blink. You are ruining both. Thanks. Somerset Mahm ruined blink. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
|
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
799
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:53:00 -
[681] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I am shocked and overjoyed that things turned out this way. I didn't exactly get along with somer apparently I asked too many questions. As it turns out I was asking all the right questions.
Let me guess, you're going to turn this into some ludicrous publicity stunt and make a video about it, stating this is why you should be voted in?
Go try and be relevant somewhere else...
---
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dolly Darko wrote:I wanted to thank CCP actually. I enjoy two things in EVE, Wormholes and Blink. You are ruining both. Thanks. Somerset Mahm ruined blink. Pretty much this. Greed is a powerful ally and also the downfall of many. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Rollaz
AirHogs Zulu People
57
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:54:00 -
[682] - Quote
So bizarre...
The favoritism toward blink over the years, now turns to the absurdity...
I got my isk back from Somer... thank you... but for some UNKNOWN reason, my number of tokens dropped by the same amount in reverse they would have been credited by...
Would be great to get an isk return on the tokens from Somer's remaining wallet funds ;)
Can I has your isk and stuff?
I'll miss your promos' twas our favorite thing to do in coms.... BREAK, BREAK....
PROMO!!!!.... errr I mean.... NOMO!!.....
RIP SOMERblink.
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5304
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:55:00 -
[683] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I am shocked and overjoyed that things turned out this way. I didn't exactly get along with somer apparently I asked too many questions. As it turns out I was asking all the right questions.
... I'm on the same side of an issue as Xenuria? "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
lord xavier
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 03:57:00 -
[684] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Xenuria wrote:I am shocked and overjoyed that things turned out this way. I didn't exactly get along with somer apparently I asked too many questions. As it turns out I was asking all the right questions. ... I'm on the same side of an issue as Xenuria? I know how you feel. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
199
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:06:00 -
[685] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Xenuria wrote:I am shocked and overjoyed that things turned out this way. I didn't exactly get along with somer apparently I asked too many questions. As it turns out I was asking all the right questions. ... I'm on the same side of an issue as Xenuria? You'll live life better when you care less about sides. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10957
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:11:00 -
[686] - Quote
an upside is that idiots won't whisper "promo" on fleet comms every 10 minutes Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
929
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:14:00 -
[687] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:CCP Falcon is hopefully the good egg that targets the bad ones in the basket
It certainly seems that way. I haven't always agreed with him but I cannot argue with his sense of duty. CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
91
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:18:00 -
[688] - Quote
Andski wrote:an upside is that idiots won't whisper "promo" on fleet comms every 10 minutes omg the shills were the worst. death to the whisperers! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10957
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:20:00 -
[689] - Quote
the whisperers in CFC comms are usually from FCON too Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
91
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:23:00 -
[690] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:n the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel. Besides being incredibly inappropriate, all I see in your comment is a quote of a reasonable statement supported by SOMER's own document and declaring it to be "spin". In what way is Falcon twisting or mincing words in that comment? You can't seem to divorce Falcon the person from Falcon the CCP representative. He has the unfortunate task of being the community punching bag (do your duty, sir, we in the corporate world understand your position all too well). Somer scammed CCP and they let themselves be scammed. They were so interested in selling PLEX, they chose not to see the forest for the trees. Go back to being clueless, Derrick. This part of the game is so meta, its off the ******* charts. |
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
15727
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:27:00 -
[691] - Quote
OK. now I get how this is different from being a direct reseller of GTC. sorry, it took me a while.
the act is a cold, hard fact: ISK was exchanged as an incentive for spending real money.
but I'm not convinced there was malice. (the intention). personally, to be convinced of that I would need to see a record of gloating, somewhere / to someone.
people are accusing SOMER of purposefully converting ISK into real money, but I think that's a little extreme, and I believe him. he's consistent, and this program was a repeated attempt, yes, but the pattern (and the explanation for closing: hostile environment and CCP reneging) also suggests SOMER just simply doesn't understand how or why the ISK incentive is a violation (compared to being a direct GTC reseller).
I think he was simply doing what he knows--he developed a catchy way to generate a ton of ISK, and he used it as a tool to make his site popular. and it was self-sustaining. if other entities can think of "better" ways to convert ISK to real money, it's probably because RMT wasn't an explicit goal of SOMER's.
he also wasn't pushy in his email exchange, between the 8th and 13th of April (a Tues - Sun, which strikes me as casual compared to M-F).
his advice over the sale of the Scorpions Ishukone Watch strikes me as basic market smarts, and not necessarily devious. (their slot layout is kind of odd, anyway. -1L +1H compared to a regular Scorpion, making it even more awkward for armor tanking to free up mids).
as for awarding them to SOMER at all, it doesn't make complete sense, except that it's a rare item (what else would they give SOMER to show appreciation--ISK?)
I'm still not sure I understand the math of his proposal (even now), and I'm confident it would have been approved if it was up to me at the time. in this very thread I made sarcastic comments, proving that I really didn't get it. I was rather avoid that, just for the sake of my reputation as a spergy multiboxer--I would certainly avoid it if my job depended on it.
but I don't feel bad, because it's a given that I will be wrong about things, and in this case I think it would take a very wily and suspicious mind to catch it, that even among EVE players would be considered exceptional. ...how many players participated in this program before it was noticed...
rather than see SOMER shut down, for what it's worth I would prefer a mea culpa for the right reason. I think he still needs it explained slowly. I'm also curious why he wouldn't become a reseller himself (can someone fill me in). if MD makes enough to share a fee for referrals, why not sell GTCs directly without involving ISK incentives? (if he gets all of the GTC sale profit, wouldn't that be better than a referral fee).
a lot of people enjoy the thrill of trying to win shiny new ships. I know I've won a couple (a few?) dreads on SOMER. I'd prefer that didn't disappear. there's also something special about the presentation and feel of the site that I haven't seen elsewhere.
I'm not sure where players will get their raffle fix.
it's a Tuesday night, with 3/5 of the weekdays left before AT XII day 3.. and I already feel like too much EVE has been packed into one week. next week is Hyperion. I'm not sure how we're going to keep this up. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2322
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:34:00 -
[692] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:n the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel. Besides being incredibly inappropriate, all I see in your comment is a quote of a reasonable statement supported by SOMER's own document and declaring it to be "spin". In what way is Falcon twisting or mincing words in that comment? You can't seem to divorce Falcon the person from Falcon the CCP representative. He has the unfortunate task of being the community punching bag (do your duty, sir, we in the corporate world understand your position all too well). Somer scammed CCP and they let themselves be scammed. They were so interested in selling PLEX, they chose not to see the forest for the trees. Go back to being clueless, Derrick. This part of the game is so meta, its off the ******* charts. CCP Falcon is the community liaison, and I'm willing to bet that nowhere in his job description is 'sit there and be punched'.
It does appear that CCP messed up in this case but so far the only real evidence of that is the text file and statement Somer made on his own site that CCP approved it, which hardly constitutes unbiased evidence. Before unleashing your righteous indignation at CCP, perhaps you should wait for the full story.
This isn't "meta", it isn't a part of the game at all. It seems like it is a clear violation of the rules for third party developers and the reaction was quick and even included doing their best to keep the community informed. Seems like the only clueless one here is you. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15728
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:40:00 -
[693] - Quote
the talk about the proposed plan has been too hard and fast for me... will someone break it down nice and slow, Barney style please. I want to understand it the way other people seem to, but I still don't see it. (help plz) President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2327
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:45:00 -
[694] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:the talk about the proposed plan has been too hard and fast for me... will someone break it down nice and slow, Barney style please. I want to understand it the way other people seem to, but I still don't see it. (help plz) The written proposal Somer linked on his site you can find here.
What basically ended up happening is Somer offered to buy the PLEX bought through their affiliate link with Markee Dragon at a markup of the current Jita price. Thus the RMT: using their referral to buy PLEX and then giving you more isk for said PLEX. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
724
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:46:00 -
[695] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: There's enough that isn't behind the scenes to make what they did pretty clearly and unequivocally wrong under the EULA.
Maybe so tbh I've not even bothered my head about it, all I know (in full transparency) is that I've walked away up more than 20bn and somewhat disgusted that the toxicity (which is far more low and disgusting than anything somer may or may no have done) behind some of the more vocal efforts to bring somer down appears to be legitimised by all this even if somer is guilty and even if some of the concerns voiced about somer were purely altruistic. |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
93
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:48:00 -
[696] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:in the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel. Not to be impolite, but are you stupid? Falcon is being more polite here than I would be because Somer's proposal that he gave CCP isn't actually what he did. Go read the document Somer sent them. Pay particular attention to the "no bonus isk" bit and the subtle weasely last line that betrays his actual intent. It's not spin, it's reading comprehension. Come back when you get some. Somer got them coming and going. He played the ends against the middle. He took advantage of their procedural and organizational weaknesses. As I said in my previous post, Falcon the man and Falcon the Rep are different people. This has nothing to do with him as an individual.
CCP got played ten ways from Sunday. They didn't have the necessary processes in place despite Somer taking them to the limit a year ago. How is it possible that the sales VP didn't act without the tacit approval of upper management? We're not talking about an act in isolation, but an ongoing event over an extended period of time. How could this have escaped CCP's notice? You ever visit Markee Dragon's site? Why is it he's the only person offering 30 day trials?
The original quote implies that "somer told us he was going to do X, but he did Y." So? Did any of you people perform your due diligence? "We're CCP, we deal with a game full of highly intelligent people who bend the rules and engage in emergent gameplay. We totally don't understand how it's possible that someone could lie to us in an email, especially when there's $100,000 in real money on the table."
Please. Who are you kidding? |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
93
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:51:00 -
[697] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:n the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel. Besides being incredibly inappropriate, all I see in your comment is a quote of a reasonable statement supported by SOMER's own document and declaring it to be "spin". In what way is Falcon twisting or mincing words in that comment? You can't seem to divorce Falcon the person from Falcon the CCP representative. He has the unfortunate task of being the community punching bag (do your duty, sir, we in the corporate world understand your position all too well). Somer scammed CCP and they let themselves be scammed. They were so interested in selling PLEX, they chose not to see the forest for the trees. Go back to being clueless, Derrick. This part of the game is so meta, its off the ******* charts. CCP Falcon is the community liaison, and I'm willing to bet that nowhere in his job description is 'sit there and be punched'. It does appear that CCP messed up in this case but so far the only real evidence of that is the text file and statement Somer made on his own site that CCP approved it, which hardly constitutes unbiased evidence. Before unleashing your righteous indignation at CCP, perhaps you should wait for the full story. This isn't "meta", it isn't a part of the game at all. It seems like it is a clear violation of the rules for third party developers and the reaction was quick and even included doing their best to keep the community informed. Seems like the only clueless one here is you. Last post before bed: we went through this a year ago. Word for word. They knew or should have known full well who and what they were dealing with. This is EVE for God's sake. The scam should always be foremost in your mind. |
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
93
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:56:00 -
[698] - Quote
So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit. Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
603
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:57:00 -
[699] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit.
this +1
@somer: Can I have your stuffz? U don't care about anyways. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3440
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:04:00 -
[700] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit.
Yep.
I assume Somer's EVE account has several tens of trillions of ISK on it.
Now that it cannot be used for veiled RMT, has anyone started a betting pool on whether this will be sold to open RMTers? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
15728
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:04:00 -
[701] - Quote
isn't one reasonable purpose of the direct reporting of the ETC (from MD) ensuring that a person didn't acquire an ETC for ISK from another player, and is turning around to make a quick ISK profit through SOMER?
If this offer was open to anyone who presents an ETC, I could acquire ETCs from someone who was unaware, and make a flat, guaranteed profit on as many ETCs as I could find... instantly and continuously. for that scenario, isn't the direct link with MD understandable. (...?)
Quote:Players who want more ISK value from their PLEX than they could get selling it by themselves will be encouraged to spend money on PLEX, since they are guaranteed the best price in the Eve universe I still see room in this for an honest (albeit ignorant and naive) desire to promote PLEX (that wouldn't be purchased otherwise) and his site -first and foremost- with the referral benefit from MD being a secondary benefit of his site's popularity (exactly what a referrer is good for).
I... personally... don't see evidence solid enough to prosecute. or persecute. either SOMER or CCP.
:-/ President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5305
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:09:00 -
[702] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:Last post before bed: we went through this a year ago. Word for word. They knew or should have known full well who and what they were dealing with. This is EVE for God's sake. The scam should always be foremost in your mind.
There's a practice in the legal profession called judge shopping. You file a bunch of identical lawsuits and see which is assigned to the most favorable judge.
You get sanctioned for trying to get an unfair advantage, it's not considered the court's fault for not catching you sooner.
Just because Somer found a favorable judge doesn't mean he is or should be immune to sanction.
But this is mostly moot, since he seems to have decided to upset the table and go home if he can't keep selling ISK. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Cherry Yeyo
67
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:11:00 -
[703] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:I assume Somer's EVE account has several tens of trillions of ISK on it.
Now that it cannot be used for veiled RMT, has anyone started a betting pool on whether this will be sold to open RMTers? Given the volumes of isk that they deal with- hes known he has eyes on his account for years, thats why the only way he can cash out of EVE is through a CCP-blessed affiliate program, he just got greedy and tried to push everyone else out.
If he dumped his liquid isk on a typical black market buyer it would be instantly confiscated. Thats why he quit. CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10959
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:12:00 -
[704] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit.
I agree that SOMER closing shop is highly indicative that he only pursued RL profits, but I doubt the guy is dumb enough to evade taxes in the US. The Iron Bank (sorry, IRS) will have its due. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15728
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:13:00 -
[705] - Quote
the momentum of this is pretty scary. I feel bad for the guy for the possibility that his intentions were good. you have to admit, this much attention is scary in itself, and it's the kind of thing that would keep you up at night if you have a conscience. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5307
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:21:00 -
[706] - Quote
Andski wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit. I agree that SOMER closing shop is highly indicative that he only pursued RL profits, but I doubt the guy is dumb enough to evade taxes in the US. The Iron Bank (sorry, IRS) will have its due.
Turns out most illegal immigrants pay their federal taxes. As do drug dealers (they learned that from Capone).
Seriously, never not pay taxes. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
NotTheSmartestCookie
New Order Logistics CODE.
48
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:28:00 -
[707] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, WeGÇÖre aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down. WeGÇÖre also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and itGÇÖs very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors. In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.
Is this where we complain about the sexism inherent in the system when all EVE players are addressed as "Hey guys" and "you guys". Is it really necessary to exclude 5% of the player base?
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
15729
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:30:00 -
[708] - Quote
SOMER's games are consistent in generating more ISK than he puts into them.
people in this thread have pointed out SOMER is not a charity... so outside of the closed loop of SOMER games that simply generate more ISK, what do you suppose he should do with his ISK besides finding reasons to give it away and promoting his site and [CCP's revenue via] PLEX in the process?
if you don't think of something, the ISK would only accumulate.
even if SOMER became an ETC reseller, that still leaves the question of what to do with that ISK outside the closed loop of SOMER games.
I can't think of anything that makes more sense than what he's done... can you? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
284
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:34:00 -
[709] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit. Yep. I assume Somer's EVE account has several tens of trillions of ISK on it. Now that it cannot be used for veiled RMT, has anyone started a betting pool on whether this will be sold to open RMTers?
There is the possibility that the Somer account may be frozen while under investigation to trace previous transactions and prevent new ones. I believe CCP Falcon said something along the lines of 'this might take a while' regarding that aspect earlier, so assuming that CCP is investigating with what I understand are standard procedures, the character itself may be temporarily banned and any liquid on that account will be locked down. CCP is also closely monitoring as Somer reimburses it's players, although they cannot and will not interfere if Somer decides to just completely **** on the community and take all the isk, so there are definitely eyes on any active corporate accounts and traditional *redacted* would be instantly spotted. Considering the amounts of isk we're dealing with here, if Somer tried to go that route, he might sell a couple hundred or thousand $$$ worth before being finally and completely outright banned.
Seems unlikely that any of that isk is going to be translated into IRL monies now... hence why Somer decided to shut down the shop |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
136
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:36:00 -
[710] - Quote
Nice twist! Somer's gambling site was no charity at all, he did it for real money as in $$. That is absolutly clear now and anybody trying to spin it any other way, well delusional is the only nice word comes to mind.
@CCP, please do not stop any investigation regarding RMT and especially do not stop any punishment aka banning for RMT, Somer shutting down the site himself reeks like evading any consequences coming his way.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10965
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:37:00 -
[711] - Quote
Ace Boogi wrote:*redacted*
No need to beat around the bush. Call it what it is. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10965
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:37:00 -
[712] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:SOMER's games are consistent in generating more ISK than he puts into them.
people in this thread have pointed out SOMER is not a charity... so outside of the closed loop of SOMER games that simply generate more ISK, what do you suppose he should do with his ISK besides finding reasons to give it away and promoting his site and [CCP's revenue via] PLEX in the process?
if you don't think of something, the ISK would only accumulate.
even if SOMER became an ETC reseller, that still leaves the question of what to do with that ISK outside the closed loop of SOMER games.
I can't think of anything that makes more sense than what he's done... can you?
"having a lot of ISK entitles you to sell it for real money" ~ rain6637 Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15729
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:39:00 -
[713] - Quote
I think I answered my own question. if he opened up the ETC purchasing program to anyone with an ETC, that would be a promotion of CCP's business and ETC/PLEX sales in good faith. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
113
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:40:00 -
[714] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:That guy pays his freelance writers in isk Which is allowedOhkewl wrote:and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd.
The issue isn't the ad revenue. The issue is that you can trade isk for RL labor and services. This lets you make profit off of the labor that you otherwise would have had to pay for.
Imagine that I ran a software company and had a ton of isk. Based on the current rules, I could totally pay people isk to write code for me, which I then sell on the market. Mittani does that, but instead pays people isk for writing and webhosting.
Somer just wasn't clever enough to pull off a scheme like this and resorted to direct isk/plex for cash transactions. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15729
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:42:00 -
[715] - Quote
uh oh. I smell what you're cooking. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:43:00 -
[716] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:SOMER's games are consistent in generating more ISK than he puts into them.
people in this thread have pointed out SOMER is not a charity... so outside of the closed loop of SOMER games that simply generate more ISK, what do you suppose he should do with his ISK besides finding reasons to give it away and promoting his site and [CCP's revenue via] PLEX in the process?
if you don't think of something, the ISK would only accumulate.
even if SOMER became an ETC reseller, that still leaves the question of what to do with that ISK outside the closed loop of SOMER games.
I can't think of anything that makes more sense than what he's done... can you? Nope. The *redacted* angle is the only one that makes sense. Except Eve players are clever and saw right through that ****
As much as Somer likes to mock the wider player base within the safe confines of his channel's echo chamber, we're not quite the dumb cattle he thinks we are. He might've been able to fool a couple of people here and there, gather a cult of true believer followers, and find the right CCP employee to run his scheme by, but at the end of the day there was simply no way people wouldn't really see this for the cash grab it was.
I think hubris brought Somer down. He thought he could pull a fast one again after getting away with it last year, he got greedy and arrogant. He thought he was untouchable. But as we've seen today, nobody is too big to fail in New Eden.
You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
I don't think many people will miss Blink after a time, they didn't offer anything particularly special or unique. Existing competitor sites will expand, new sites will emerge, and the playerbase as a whole will profit as a result.
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
15729
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:44:00 -
[717] - Quote
I hope so. that would be healthy. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:44:00 -
[718] - Quote
Andski wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit. I agree that SOMER closing shop is highly indicative that he only pursued RL profits, but I doubt the guy is dumb enough to evade taxes in the US. The Iron Bank (sorry, IRS) will have its due.
huh, and The Mittani isnt?? Didnt he quit his RL job so he could focus more on his RMT empire? He lives from his RMT, while paying his employees with ISK. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15730
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:47:00 -
[719] - Quote
LMT... labor market trading? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:48:00 -
[720] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Andski wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit. I agree that SOMER closing shop is highly indicative that he only pursued RL profits, but I doubt the guy is dumb enough to evade taxes in the US. The Iron Bank (sorry, IRS) will have its due. huh, and The Mittani isnt?? Didnt he quit his RL job so he could focus more on his RMT empire? He lives from his RMT, while paying his employees with ISK.
The Mittani doesn't engage in *redacted*
But this isn't even about The Mittani. Go grind that axe somewhere else. |
|
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
189
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:49:00 -
[721] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit. I can't blame him for leaving.. You can argue both sides to if he crossed that vague line CCP has about when is it RMT and when isn't it.. But the simple fact is, Somer has been screwed by CCP 3 times now.
First time was the first "RMT" deal, that he did for YEARS, no complaints, then some outcry and CCP shuts it down. It's not like CCP never knew what he was doing, some covert act, he was a site advertised by CCP several times.. suddenly it was wrong. Second time was the drama about the Scorps, and the gifts for the big celebration.. Somer didn't DO anything. Even if they asked for the stuff, which they didn't (at least not the Scorps) CCP was the one that gave it all out. Third was this.. Was Somers proposal fake or not.. I donno.. But he asked them if it needed to go through legal, where you'd expect them to ask common sense questions like HOW are you going to set the PRICE.. Highsec Average? Jita? Monthly Average? HOW.. Basic questions. No CCP just said yes. It's fine.. and didn't even pass it by Legal. I doubt they even read the document.
I can't blame him for not wanting to deal with CCP anymore. If CCP could pull their heads out of their asses and become consistent, with some common sense questions and procedures for their actions, all of these events (and many, many others with other communities and sites) could all have been avoided. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15730
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:50:00 -
[722] - Quote
has implications for the whole Services section of the forum, really. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10967
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:50:00 -
[723] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:The issue isn't the ad revenue. The issue is that you can trade isk for RL labor and services. This lets you make profit off of the labor that you otherwise would have had to pay for.
CCP has already set a clear precedent for this kind of thing and it's explicitly allowed. People offer teamspeak hosting, web hosting, coding, and other services for ISK, and you can engage in this thing if you want to, as long as it's EVE related.
Tear Jar wrote:Imagine that I ran a software company and had a ton of isk. Based on the current rules, I could totally pay people isk to write code for me, which I then sell on the market. Mittani does that, but instead pays people isk for writing and webhosting.
This is a ridiculous edge case and you'd probably be in violation of the law if you did this, as you don't have the right to redistribute software that you buy. Additionally, TMC pays for their own web hosting in RL $$, and the articles they pay ISK for are all related to CCP IP, conforming to guidelines CCP handed down to them after last year's Somergate. The difference is that they haven't tried to weasel their way around it by deceiving CCP. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2348
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:51:00 -
[724] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:SOMER's games are consistent in generating more ISK than he puts into them.
people in this thread have pointed out SOMER is not a charity... so outside of the closed loop of SOMER games that simply generate more ISK, what do you suppose he should do with his ISK besides finding reasons to give it away and promoting his site and [CCP's revenue via] PLEX in the process?
if you don't think of something, the ISK would only accumulate.
even if SOMER became an ETC reseller, that still leaves the question of what to do with that ISK outside the closed loop of SOMER games.
I can't think of anything that makes more sense than what he's done... can you? I can think of quite a few things to do with the isk if simply giving back to the community was the primary desire. The point was, the deal involved trading isk for an out-of-game service which is clearly against CCP rules. Do you really think there is no other method to give away isk? |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:51:00 -
[725] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:That guy pays his freelance writers in isk Which is allowedOhkewl wrote:and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd.
And why do you think those advertisers pay money for those adds, because people click them, and buy stuff from those companies. Maybe you and i dont click them, but some people do. Are you seriously suggesting that companies would pay for advertising, if they didnt make any money off it? Wouldn't that be absurd? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10967
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:52:00 -
[726] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:huh, and The Mittani isnt?? Didnt he quit his RL job so he could focus more on his RMT empire? He lives from his RMT, while paying his employees with ISK.
Submit your evidence to [email protected] Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15730
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:54:00 -
[727] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Rain6637 wrote:SOMER's games are consistent in generating more ISK than he puts into them.
people in this thread have pointed out SOMER is not a charity... so outside of the closed loop of SOMER games that simply generate more ISK, what do you suppose he should do with his ISK besides finding reasons to give it away and promoting his site and [CCP's revenue via] PLEX in the process?
if you don't think of something, the ISK would only accumulate.
even if SOMER became an ETC reseller, that still leaves the question of what to do with that ISK outside the closed loop of SOMER games.
I can't think of anything that makes more sense than what he's done... can you? I can think of quite a few things to do with the isk if simply giving back to the community was the primary desire. The point was, the deal involved trading isk for an out-of-game service which is clearly against CCP rules. Do you really think there is no other method to give away isk? naw, you're right. I was just posing a question / thinking out loud. I see it now: he said he would let anyone with an ETC participate, and then he limited it to MD.
lol. direct failure to comprehend on my part. and it's exactly what people said / oops. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10967
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:55:00 -
[728] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:And why do you think those advertisers pay money for those adds, because people click them, and buy stuff from those companies. Maybe you and i dont click them, but some people do. Are you seriously suggesting that companies would pay for advertising, if they didnt make any money off it? Wouldn't that be absurd?
Are you offered any ISK incentives for buying from their advertisers? Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2348
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 05:56:00 -
[729] - Quote
Andski wrote:Tear Jar wrote:Imagine that I ran a software company and had a ton of isk. Based on the current rules, I could totally pay people isk to write code for me, which I then sell on the market. Mittani does that, but instead pays people isk for writing and webhosting. This is a ridiculous edge case and you'd probably be in violation of the law if you did this, as you don't have the right to redistribute software that you buy. Additionally, TMC pays for their own web hosting in RL $$, and the articles they pay ISK for are all related to CCP IP, conforming to guidelines CCP handed down to them after last year's Somergate. The difference is that they haven't tried to weasel their way around it by deceiving CCP. Actually you can redistribute software that you buy, provided the license set by the seller allows for it (and paying someone to make software often enables one to dictate such a license). However, doing so with material created for Eve, which is the exception that allows for code to be purchased with isk, would constitute a violation of the EULA. |
Garia666
CyberShield Inc Triumvirate.
87
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:01:00 -
[730] - Quote
thanks ccp for screwing my game. |
|
Neesa Corrinne
Binary Systems Industries
46
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:03:00 -
[731] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Sugar Kyle wrote:CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo have been very open to our questions and the questions that we have brought forward from the community starting from last night. I've recently been asked about accounts used for businesses and what account usage qualifies as a business reference this part of the EULA: Quote:"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited." Does this mean guys like TheMittani are in trouble too? That guy pays his freelance writers in isk and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is.
Ummmm this.
I want to know the answer to this too.
Is CCP going to perform a comprehensive review of everyone that may be involved in RMT or simply pick on the person that's cool to hate currently? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5342
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:06:00 -
[732] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, WeGÇÖre aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down. WeGÇÖre also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and itGÇÖs very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors. In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.
Gotta admit the gambling stuff there, was kind of popular.
Maybe it's time to open the door and put casinos in these stations.
Or pleasure hubs (shameless plug to bring pleasure hubs back )
But seriously, content is now removed from the game. What will take its place?
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
182
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:06:00 -
[733] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:That guy pays his freelance writers in isk Which is allowedOhkewl wrote:and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd. And why do you think those advertisers pay money for those adds, because people click them, and buy stuff from those companies. Maybe you and i dont click them, but some people do. Are you seriously suggesting that companies would pay for advertising, if they didnt make any money off it? Wouldn't that be absurd?
Once TheMittani.com, and other sites like EVENews24.com and CrossingZebras.com offer incentives to click their ads then yes you can make that comparison but since they don't you're repeating the same straw man from yesterday. Those sites are operating within CCP's policies in how they pay their contributors ISK and running ads separately to maintain their overhead costs. If you have concerns, or even suspicions that they're not following those polcies then contact CCP's support and discuss it with them. At present you're simply rumor mongering and making claims without any substantiated evidence other than your own misconceptions which have been disproven. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
116
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:10:00 -
[734] - Quote
I love all the people saying this is a giant conspiracy by people who hated Somer Blink. It must be a pretty sucky conspiracy since we couldn't lift a damn finger against it for months and months between the last time this happened and now. You'd think a real conspiracy could've faked up some evidence to use against someone before they went and incriminated themselves.
The funniest thing about the whole Somer Story is that the person most directly responsible for his downfall was his biggest fan, CCP Navigator. If he hadn't given them those Ishukone Watch Scorpions and crazy prize ships, people wouldn't have had so much reason to look closely at the original referral kickbacks. Better yet if Somer had the cunning to turn them down for more modest returns. He could have kept operating under the radar for probably years and years. Ah, the best laid plans of mice and men...
Andski wrote: I agree that SOMER closing shop is highly indicative that he only pursued RL profits, but I doubt the guy is dumb enough to evade taxes in the US. The Iron Bank (sorry, IRS) will have its due.
Isn't S.M. a German though? Are german tax collectors better or worse than the IRS? |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:12:00 -
[735] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ohkewl wrote:Andski wrote:Ohkewl wrote:So all Somer has to do is: 1. everyone buying plex through their site also needs to write an article (lets say min 3 max 20 words) 2. Somer buys these articles for isk and puts them on a websit 3. Markeedragon has a banner on the site and pays Somer for the advertising.
There you go, a legitemate newsite.
except that's not what TMC or other news sites do at all on the other hand, if TMC offered you ISK for buying yourself a game through their amazon affiliate program, that would most certainly be clear-cut RMT Minus the plex buying, it is what they do, buy articles for isk, get money from adds. TMC or Evenews24 doesnt buy just any article from anyone either. As a former writer for TMC, that's not how they behave/operate at all. They pay the contributor in ISK only for EVE "Universe" articles (EVE Online, DUST 514, EVE Valkyrie etc.) this policy also includes videos and streaming fleets/large fights. They don't just pay a writer for a non-EVE article with EVE's in-game money as that is against CCP's policy which was previously linked to you. Any coverage not pertaining to EVE is compensated in a different fashion and has no ISK or PLEX or GTC involved whatsoever. This could be, for example, using the site's role as a news outlet to obtain press pass keys for a game they intend to cover, which has been done, and so forth. That behavior has no bearing on their role in providing EVE coverage as that is a separate policy/rules of operation they are required to follow. As for "doesnt buy just any article from anyone either" that's due to, in TMC's case, quality control and preference for not having poorly written and grammatically incorrect pieces thrown out there.
All that is irrelevant, all that matters is that he pays his employees with isk, and makes real profits from their labor. It doesnt matter if there are also articles that arent payed with ISK, or that he wrote himself, it matters that there are. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
182
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:12:00 -
[736] - Quote
Neesa Corrinne wrote:Ohkewl wrote:Sugar Kyle wrote:CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo have been very open to our questions and the questions that we have brought forward from the community starting from last night. I've recently been asked about accounts used for businesses and what account usage qualifies as a business reference this part of the EULA: Quote:"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited." Does this mean guys like TheMittani are in trouble too? That guy pays his freelance writers in isk and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. Ummmm this. I want to know the answer to this too. Is CCP going to perform a comprehensive review of everyone that may be involved in RMT or simply pick on the person that's cool to hate currently?
They already provided a statement on this from last year's kerfuffel over what Somer did (there's a link somewhere in here but I can't be asked at the moment to provide it). The summary of what was said was, TMC can pay contributors ISK for their submitted work only if that payment is for EVE IP related coverage. This would mean you writing about DUST 514 in some capacity is perfectly OK. However if all you wrote about was say Elite: Dangerous, The Witcher 3 or Hearthstone, you can't be paid in ISK for that work. This applies to videos, podcasts etc. as well. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10973
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:14:00 -
[737] - Quote
Klyith wrote:Isn't S.M. a German though? Are german tax collectors better or worse than the IRS?
I'm fairly sure that he's American, but even if he's not, evading taxes in any developed country is a bad idea. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5310
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:17:00 -
[738] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:That guy pays his freelance writers in isk Which is allowedOhkewl wrote:and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd. The issue isn't the ad revenue. The issue is that you can trade isk for RL labor and services. This lets you make profit off of the labor that you otherwise would have had to pay for. Imagine that I ran a software company and had a ton of isk. Based on the current rules, I could totally pay people isk to write code for me, which I then sell on the market. Mittani does that, but instead pays people isk for writing and webhosting. Somer just wasn't clever enough to pull off a scheme like this and resorted to direct isk/plex for cash transactions.
Only if that code was EVE related. TMC only pays its writers ISK for EVE articles and I highly doubt they pay hosting in ISK.
CCP has explicitly allowed paying ISK for EVE related services, like writing. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10974
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:21:00 -
[739] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:But seriously, content is now removed from the game. What will take its place?
Some other gambling site will take its place within a week. Hopefully one that doesn't have RL gain as its primary goal. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Garai Nolen
XYJAX
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:23:00 -
[740] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:And why do you think those advertisers pay money for those adds, because people click them, and buy stuff from those companies. Maybe you and i dont click them, but some people do. Are you seriously suggesting that companies would pay for advertising, if they didnt make any money off it? Wouldn't that be absurd?
Not sure how this is so difficult for people to understand.
If TMC paid people ISK to directly click on their ads, that would be RMT. But they don't. They pay ISK for people to produce content. OTHER people, consuming that content, MIGHT click on the ads, but those people have no direct, in-game, ISK-related incentive to do so. Somer did the former, practically every other supposed-RMT example does the latter. And it's a world of difference. (That is of course ignoring all the other examples where people are simply paying for services in ISK rather than $ and NO ONE is making real $ out of the deal, which is so far from relevant as to be laughable every time it gets brought up).
So the first half of this issue is understanding that there IS a difference.
The second half would be to understand WHY that difference actually matters, which would get into all the reasons the ISK->$ portion of RMT is so specifically damaging to a game (botting, turning gameplay into a job [for real, not just metaphorically], hacked accounts, etc.).
Any direct ISK->$ scheme basically sets up an unlimited growth cycle where the endgame is to simply acquire ISK by *ANY* means necessary, including those flat out damaging to the health of a game or simply outright illegal, because $ is a motivator like no other.
An indirect ISK->services followed by consumers of service->$ has a very natural limiting factor; there's only so many ad clicks TMC is going to get NO MATTER HOW MUCH ISK they spend on articles. The income they pull from ad revenue is barely related to the ISK balance they can float and far more related to just about every other facet of running a successful site. In fact, amazingly enough, people have even made websites that don't have anything to do with EVE, where they don't pay ANYone in ISK, and still manage to generate ad-based revenue. Crazy hey?
EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
184
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:23:00 -
[741] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:
All that is irrelevant, all that matters is that he pays his employees with isk, and makes real profits from their labor. It doesnt matter if there are also articles that arent payed with ISK, or that he wrote himself, it matters that there are.
Not really given that it was CCP who mandated the policy regarding paying contributors for in-game ISK for their EVE related work on a site or for other services related to EVE. It's how I can make an Alliance Tournament ad, and put it on my YT channel with monetization (which is another thing CCP also approves of). If you're of the opinion that TMC, EN24, CZ etc. shouldn't be allowed to run ads on their site, which means there's real money revenue, while paying it's contributors in ISK then you'll need to articulate how it's RMT, how it's a violation of CCP's policies and so forth to the CCP Security and Community Management teams. Thus far, there's nothing being done that is in the same vein as what Somer attempted last year, nor what they attempted this time around.
As stated, what TMC (and other sites) do isn't RMT. They provide no in-game incentive to use their site to the reader. The contributor receives an incentive to produce EVE related content for their website which they, the contributor, do of their own volition and accord. In the case of Somer, which is what this thread is discussing, they attempted (twice now) to cause incentivization of their GTC/PLEX referral links in the form of providing ISK to the consumer.
RubyPorto wrote:Only if that code was EVE related. TMC only pays its writers ISK for EVE articles and I highly doubt they pay hosting in ISK.
They don't. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:25:00 -
[742] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:n the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Spin spin spin spin spin. You make me sad, CCP. He stuck his **** so far up your ass that you couldn't see straight. Now let's watch the PLEX market unravel. Not to be impolite, but are you stupid? Falcon is being more polite here than I would be because Somer's proposal that he gave CCP isn't actually what he did. Go read the document Somer sent them. Pay particular attention to the "no bonus isk" bit and the subtle weasely last line that betrays his actual intent. It's not spin, it's reading comprehension. Come back when you get some.
I will not support that guys attitude nor I agree with him about the spinning issue.
But let me ask you something. Why not CCP ever cared to check that IF he is applying to the eula and If he is giving bonus isk or no?
I mean isnt there any mechanism in CCP to check their dealings and third party service providers to see that If they are keeping their part of the promise?
It is really sad to see that their fimr's neglection of control paid as a price by its customers... |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:27:00 -
[743] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote: All that is irrelevant, all that matters is that he pays his employees with isk, and makes real profits from their labor. It doesnt matter if there are also articles that arent payed with ISK, or that he wrote himself, it matters that there are.
And CCP authorizes that trade of ISK for content, for TMC and anyone else that wants to run a eve focused website. If you want to join in you can start the Ohkewl Eve Website and join in the big profits yourself. It's a level playing field.
If you think CCP allowing people to pay writers or other content makers in isk is RMT and shouldn't be allowed, you can make that case. But don't expect to get very far. It's very much in CCP's interest to have lots of eve media, news, and such providing free advertising for them.
(FYI if you think mittani or anyone else in the games journalism field is making fat stacks of cash you're either deluded or have a job flipping burgers. Websites about video games make pennies. I'm sure he could go back to being a lawyer and make more in a month than TMC makes in a year. But being a lawyer isn't as fun as being an ~eve personality~.) |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:31:00 -
[744] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, WeGÇÖre aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down. WeGÇÖre also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and itGÇÖs very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors. In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.
Thank you very much for your info Falcon. you and others worked really hard and Its good to see dedicated persons like you to take care of these kind of things.
Just before you go, can you asnwer one question?
isnt there any mechanism in CCP to check their dealings and third party service providers to see that If they are keeping their part of the promise? Because What somer did like you said did not meet the original proposition. THen why CCP ever check them ?
I mean I as a customer of your (CCP) service should not have to be a victiom of the Firm's neglection of control towards its service providers.
Thank you very much for your work an all. HOpe everything will be good.
Take care
|
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:33:00 -
[745] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:KaRa DaVuT wrote: I just want to hear from the real people, the people who involved that to explain what really happened. From The decision makers. Not from the people that just learned this 24 hour ago.
There are people out there really know whats happenning in CCP. I want them to go out public and explain to me that, why some pople are treated differently than the others in this game when it comes to EULA? As legally both me and somer are subcribers. So both are bound to the EULA rules.
Fair enough. But just to point out one small detail. Falcon IS the Community Dev. It is his task to talk to you and get the information needed. I and the rest of the CSM were elected to represent the players, not CCP. We have been doing that, this past day and will continue to do so. Yes, we have our NDA and yes, that gets irritating. I am going through this thread looking for new details, new ideas or requests. But some see it as trolling or whatever. Look to out website and see how many of us have written things in the past 36 hours about this. Talk to the people who you think best represent you on the CSM (whether you voted or not). Keep posting here, I will keep reading. m
You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10977
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:36:00 -
[746] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is.
see the last two lines of my sig Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:41:00 -
[747] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ohkewl wrote:You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is. see the last two lines of my sig
yes i'm sure anyone playing blink really wanted to stop Somer. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5311
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:41:00 -
[748] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is.
The only reason Blink is down is that Somer threw a hissy and turned it off when his RMT scheme came to light.
How does Somer's hissy become the CSM's fault, exactly? "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10977
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:42:00 -
[749] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:yes i'm sure anyone playing blink really wanted to stop Somer.
CCP didn't force Somer to shut Blink down. Neither did the CSM and neither did the posters in this thread. Somer shut blink down because he can no longer make RL money from it the way he wants to. If you're upset about no longer being able to play ****** blinks, cry to Somer, not the people who protested his presumption that he is above the rules. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
warbds
Stoli Holdings
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:43:00 -
[750] - Quote
Pity to see this lottery disappear! One thing if you consider this RMT and you like what you did see. Why not help him and host his side so he doesnot have to pay all the fees to serviceproviders! |
|
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
12677
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:43:00 -
[751] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done...
I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this.
/c
|
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10977
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:45:00 -
[752] - Quote
It'd be pretty stupid for CCP to punish people who played on that site, given CCP's past tacit endorsements of SOMERblink. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:47:00 -
[753] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Ohkewl wrote:You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is. The only reason Blink is down is that Somer threw a hissy and turned it off when his RMT scheme came to light. How does Somer's hissy become the CSM's fault, exactly?
The only one who really knows why is Somer. A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent. |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
121
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:48:00 -
[754] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent. Maybe you'd like to put some evidence forward, because I'm pretty sure rumor mongering is forbidden. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11205
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:52:00 -
[755] - Quote
Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c LAY IT ON THICK Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2357
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:53:00 -
[756] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Ohkewl wrote:You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is. The only reason Blink is down is that Somer threw a hissy and turned it off when his RMT scheme came to light. How does Somer's hissy become the CSM's fault, exactly? The only one who really knows why is Somer. A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent. Sounds pretty wild to me, I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't allow RMT in any form. Unless you're redefining the term. |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
137
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:55:00 -
[757] - Quote
Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c
You put in nicer words than i did and i absolutly agree with you. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11205
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:56:00 -
[758] - Quote
Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c KEEP THE PRESSURE ON 'EM. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Tao Dolcino
Jolly Jumpers Squad
337
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 06:59:00 -
[759] - Quote
I have played EVE since 2003 with different accounts. Each time there have been a scandal because of CCP i have cancelled my subscription for many months to protest. I have lost all trust in CCP years ago (Incarna was the final nail in the coffin). If they again play it "blurry mafia" instead of being clear and straight, i will cancel again, but this time for good. I'd better pay 15Gé¼ monthly to people who have a minimum of sense of probity. By the way, CCP, i'm also watching you on the matter of null sec sov, which for me is another form of mafia issue. Favoritism is good - CCP 2013 |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2495
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:01:00 -
[760] - Quote
Oddly enough, it would help mittens if CCP were to take a really close look at his operation.
I am one who finds, 'The Ego' as I think of him, rather pompous and tedious, but I do believe he runs a clean operation.
Clear the air and all that class of thing.
This is not a signature. |
|
Fracoix
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:01:00 -
[761] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, WeGÇÖre aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down. WeGÇÖre also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and itGÇÖs very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors. In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.
Enjoy the hit to PLEX sales......
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2361
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:02:00 -
[762] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:I have played EVE since 2003 with different accounts. Each time there have been a scandal because of CCP i have cancelled my subscription for many months to protest. I have lost all trust in CCP years ago (Incarna was the final nail in the coffin). If they again play it "blurry mafia" instead of being clear and straight, i will cancel again, but this time for good. I'd better pay 15Gé¼ monthly to people who have a minimum of sense of probity. By the way, CCP, i'm also watching you on the matter of null sec sov, which for me is another form of mafia issue. A mafia issue? Don't you think accusing CCP of running an organized crime syndicate might be a bit extreme? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10982
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:08:00 -
[763] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Oddly enough, it would help mittens if CCP were to take a really close look at his operation.
I am one who finds, 'The Ego' as I think of him, rather pompous and tedious, but I do believe he runs a clean operation.
Clear the air and all that class of thing.
Yeah, if you run a major alliance it's a really good idea to keep your nose clean. CCP loves making an example out of highly visible players to demonstrate that nobody is above the rules. I doubt he implemented his compensation/revenue model without running it by CCP thoroughly enough to clear all doubt. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10982
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:10:00 -
[764] - Quote
Fracoix wrote:Enjoy the hit to PLEX sales......
People who buy PLEX aren't going to stop buying it because a 40-50m incentive from a website is no longer there. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Jebus hChrist
Jupitor.Mining.And.Maiming.Corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:10:00 -
[765] - Quote
Well looks like the goons got what they wanted as always gg ccp. Love that everyone forgot how many Plex Blink had given to the last plex for good giving good pr for ccp and all of us. No mention of the support given to Eve Uni and RvB and all the others that blink helped out.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10982
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:11:00 -
[766] - Quote
Jebus hChrist wrote:Well looks like the goons got what they wanted as always gg ccp. Love that everyone forgot how many Plex Blink had given to the last plex for good giving good pr for ccp and all of us. No mention of the support given to Eve Uni and RvB and all the others that blink helped out.
another forum alt who thinks that somer blink is a charity and who also attributes everything he dislikes to grrgoons
lol Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:13:00 -
[767] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Ohkewl wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Ohkewl wrote:You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is. The only reason Blink is down is that Somer threw a hissy and turned it off when his RMT scheme came to light. How does Somer's hissy become the CSM's fault, exactly? The only one who really knows why is Somer. A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent. Sounds pretty wild to me, I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't allow RMT in any form. Unless you're redefining the term.
RMT= converting ISK to real money. That's what Somer, Evenews24 and TMC are doing, they jump thru some hoops to get there, but the end result is the same. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1384
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:13:00 -
[768] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote: You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is.
I wonder if neighbourhood junkies complain when the local dealer is arrested.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1257
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:14:00 -
[769] - Quote
Oh well, never liked blink anyway.
Although I like the way they shut down while "boo-booing" about CCP. It feels like d+¬j+á-vu all the time, giving up while accusing someone else.
SOMER should understand that they are responsible for their current situation, if they didn't try to RMT - again - they could've continued with their business indefinitely.
Also yeah, they are in a good situation. I mean they probably have close to a trillion of isk, if not more. They also got their ishukone scorpions... So yeah, money plus limited edition ships, I wouldn't call that a bad end if you ask me.
Finally, best sentence of the week :
Quote:As always, we're not in the business of stealing your money.
Rather ironic coming from a business that made hundreds of billions from player money. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
|
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
121
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:15:00 -
[770] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:RMT= converting ISK to real money. That's what Somer, Evenews24 and TMC are doing, they jump thru some hoops to get there, but the end result is the same. No, RMT = selling ingame assets or ingame services for IRL money. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4130
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:16:00 -
[771] - Quote
Baron Torkskails wrote:seriously need to reconsider this whole affair, the CSM's relevance to the matter is minimal at best. the promotion was approved by ccp after a long discussion and should be honored. Have you read the actual workflow that was supposedly agreed? It explicitly states no extra isk will be handed across, yet extra isk is handed across. What CCP (or at least one person at CCP) agreed to was not the same as what they set up as the promotion. They purposely misled them to get them to agree, hoping they could then use that as their defense. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2363
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:20:00 -
[772] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Ohkewl wrote:...
The only one who really knows why is Somer. A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent. Sounds pretty wild to me, I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't allow RMT in any form. Unless you're redefining the term. RMT= converting ISK to real money. That's what Somer, Evenews24 and TMC are doing, they jump thru some hoops to get there, but the end result is the same. Those "hoops" are the rules CCP has put into place for all third party developers to abide by. It's pretty clear that Somer is the one who broke them, which is the whole reason this thread exists. |
Fallon Talwyn
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:20:00 -
[773] - Quote
Rumors? Kinda hard not to assume what it really is when every other post is a Goon or Goonpet...... |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2363
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:21:00 -
[774] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Ohkewl wrote: You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is.
I wonder if neighbourhood junkies complain when the local dealer is arrested. m Not really helping your case. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
184
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:24:00 -
[775] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote: RMT= converting ISK to real money. That's what Somer, Evenews24 and TMC are doing, they jump thru some hoops to get there, but the end result is the same.
No, but again nice attempt at a straw man.
TMC, EN24, CZ and yes even Somer are given guidelines and rules to abide by. Somer's plan for the incentives offered last year, and this time around, broke those guidelines. TMC, EN24, ZKillboard, Dotlan etc. making real money off the service they provide through not offering incentives to for their service, or any in-game goods, for using their service doesn't. It's not hard to comprehend. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Fracoix
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:25:00 -
[776] - Quote
Andski wrote:Fracoix wrote:Enjoy the hit to PLEX sales...... People who buy PLEX aren't going to stop buying it because a 40-50m incentive from a website is no longer there.
People like me who bought PLEX to blink will
I expect i wasn't alone in doing this.... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11205
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:25:00 -
[777] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:RMT= converting ISK to real money. That's what Somer, Evenews24 and TMC are doing, they jump thru some hoops to get there, but the end result is the same. No, it's just what Somer was doing. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
407
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:26:00 -
[778] - Quote
Fracoix wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, WeGÇÖre aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down. WeGÇÖre also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and itGÇÖs very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors. In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP. Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. Enjoy the hit to PLEX sales......
people will just go get plex from other places.
they still need to fund their eve crack habit |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4130
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:29:00 -
[779] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:the momentum of this is pretty scary. I feel bad for the guy for the possibility that his intentions were good. you have to admit, this much attention is scary in itself, and it's the kind of thing that would keep you up at night if you have a conscience. His intentions were not good, his intentions were to make money and that's that. Nobody here believe that he occidentally stumbled onto convoluted RMT schemes to convert isk to cash, but even if we did, that doesn't make it any less RMT and thus doesn't change the punishment. I still expect his assets to be siezed and his accounts to be permanently banned. Undoubtedly he's shutting down Somer in an effort to avoid that, but anything short of that will be a disappointing outcome, as anyone else involved in RMT gets banned forever, and the rules should be applied fairly across the board. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10984
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:29:00 -
[780] - Quote
Here's a rough timeline of events:
- Somerset Mahm proposes a PLEX referral incentive model to CCP for approval. It is approved and he later implements a referral incentive, creating a buyback program for PLEX purchased through his referral link at above market prices.
- Somebody discovered that SOMERblink has created a new incentive to buy PLEX via their referral link. This was posted to Reddit, discussed there and it made its way to the forums.
- The discussions about this catch the attention of the CSM, and it makes its way to the desk of CCP Falcon, CCP's community coordinator, who mentions that he was surprised by this and unaware.
- SOMERblink is asked to put this promotion on hold for the meantime. They do so, and publish private correspondence with CCP's VP of Sales, along with the document they presented to her proposing their new incentive model.
- Players who read this document realize that the proposal was undoubtedly written with the intention of deceiving the reader into believing that there would be the incentive was not based on ISK or assets.
- CCP's conclusion is that the incentive implemented by SOMER was not what they approved. In response, SOMERblink shuts down indefinitely and refunds outstanding deposits.
So who acted in bad faith? CCP, by approving an ambiguously worded proposal and then deciding that what was implemented was not what they approved, or Somer, by writing an ambiguously worded proposal, deceiving CCP and essentially implementing a similar referral incentive to what CCP previously made him discontinue? Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:30:00 -
[781] - Quote
Rroff wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: There's enough that isn't behind the scenes to make what they did pretty clearly and unequivocally wrong under the EULA.
Maybe so tbh I've not even bothered my head about it, all I know (in full transparency) is that I've walked away up more than 20bn and somewhat disgusted that the toxicity (which is far more low and disgusting than anything somer may or may no have done) behind some of the more vocal efforts to bring somer down appears to be legitimised by all this even if somer is guilty and even if some of the concerns voiced about somer were purely altruistic.
He broke the rules. When caught, he chose to shut down the parts of his site that didn't break the rules, rather than operate within the rules. It's as simple as that. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10984
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:31:00 -
[782] - Quote
Fracoix wrote:People like me who bought PLEX to blink will I expect i wasn't alone in doing this....
Thankfully, the National Council on Problem Gambling has a 24-hour confidential support hotline you can call.
Get help here: http://www.ncpgambling.org/ Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Fracoix
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:33:00 -
[783] - Quote
Andski wrote:Fracoix wrote:People like me who bought PLEX to blink will I expect i wasn't alone in doing this.... Thankfully, the National Council on Problem Gambling has a 24-hour confidential support hotline you can call. Get help here: http://www.ncpgambling.org/
Don't need it now do I?
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2365
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:36:00 -
[784] - Quote
Andski wrote:Fracoix wrote:People like me who bought PLEX to blink will I expect i wasn't alone in doing this.... Thankfully, the National Council on Problem Gambling has a 24-hour confidential support hotline you can call. Get help here: http://www.ncpgambling.org/ If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10984
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:40:00 -
[785] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling.
Honestly, when you've lost enough ISK on Blink that you go full sunk cost and buy PLEX to replenish your losses and continue gambling, I think you have a problem.
As far as poor taste jokes go this is pretty benign anyway Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Lauresh Thellere
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:40:00 -
[786] - Quote
I still can't believe people are upset that players were outraged by somer RMT. It's against the rules and probably illegal as well and the only reason he wasn't permabanned on the spot was the fact that there was complexities behind it that needed to be investigated.
RMT is against the rules of the game no matter who does it and is punishable by a permanent ban without warning.
Also to all the gambling addicts out there somer decided to kill the site of his own free will, CCP had nothing to do with that. Somer just didn't want to face the consequences of his actions so quit. The second thing is that somer is not the only gambling website out there, and now that it's gone several new ones which use somer's idea of a fast paced lottery system will spring up soon enough.
TL;DR: RMT is punishable by permaban, Somer killed his own site to try and avoid punishment from CCP and gambling addicts can still get their fix so stop complaining that CCP ruined your game. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
611
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:40:00 -
[787] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:
RMT= converting ISK to real money. That's what Somer, Evenews24 and TMC are doing, they jump thru some hoops to get there, but the end result is the same.
*facedesks*
no wait..
*facedesks more*
nope you still dont make sense
|
Fracoix
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:46:00 -
[788] - Quote
Andski wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling. Honestly, when you've lost enough ISK on Blink that you go full sunk cost and buy PLEX to replenish your losses and continue gambling, I think you have a problem. As far as poor taste jokes go this is pretty benign anyway
It's only a problem if you can't afford it. Still got my job, friends, house etc.. So I'm not down and out mate |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
118
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:47:00 -
[789] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote: A wild guess, some people are allowed to RMT from CCP, and others arent.
Oh my god. Some people are allowed to follow the rules. Some other people are forbidden from breaking the rules.
THIS INJUSTICE WILL NOT STAND!
Jebus hChrist wrote:Well looks like the goons got what they wanted as always gg ccp.
In future threads, can you please refrain from calling the winning side "the goons"? When all the reasonable and intelligent people are arguing one side, and all the stupid and shortsighted ones are on the other side, I assure you that it's only a coincidence that all the goons posting in the discussion are in the first group.
There are plenty of reasonable and intelligent non-goons as well and I feel this tendency devalues their input. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4131
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:50:00 -
[790] - Quote
Fracoix wrote:Andski wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling. Honestly, when you've lost enough ISK on Blink that you go full sunk cost and buy PLEX to replenish your losses and continue gambling, I think you have a problem. As far as poor taste jokes go this is pretty benign anyway It's only a problem if you can't afford it. Still got my job, friends, house etc.. So I'm not down and out mate From an in-character perspective, you are. If you run out of isk and have to borrow from your real wallet, your character is down and out. They psychology of it is pretty similar. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4222
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:52:00 -
[791] - Quote
Lauresh Thellere wrote:I still can't believe people are upset that players were outraged by somer RMT. It's against the rules and probably illegal as well and the only reason he wasn't permabanned on the spot was the fact that there was complexities behind it that needed to be investigated.
RMT is against the rules of the game no matter who does it and is punishable by a permanent ban without warning.
Also to all the gambling addicts out there somer decided to kill the site of his own free will, CCP had nothing to do with that. Somer just didn't want to face the consequences of his actions so quit. The second thing is that somer is not the only gambling website out there, and now that it's gone several new ones which use somer's idea of a fast paced lottery system will spring up soon enough.
TL;DR: RMT is punishable by permaban, Somer killed his own site to try and avoid punishment from CCP and gambling addicts can still get their fix so stop complaining that CCP ruined your game.
Except that they had authorisation from CCP. See, RMT results in a permaban IF it can be shown to be RMT AND it's not authorised by CCP. If you're going to throw out the blanket statement "RMT is punishable by permaban" then anyone who's ever bought PLEX and sold it for isk is in line for a permaban. Because that's RMT. It's trading real money for in-game money. The only difference is, CCP allows it.
The REAL difference here, of course, isn't that CCP approved Somer's promo, it's that it was Somer. Again, this whole debacle has just been another "Grr Somer", brought to you by people just looking to make mountains out of molehills.
I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?
Packing up Somer COULD be a sign of guilt. It could also be a sign of exactly what he says it is: he's sick of the bullshit. I would be too. In any case, assuming one way or the other definitively is an assumption, the same kind of assumption that lead to this manufactured outrage to begin with, and a sign that EVE's player-base isn't as bright as most of us believe. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:52:00 -
[792] - Quote
Klyith wrote:There are plenty of reasonable and intelligent non-goons as well and I feel this tendency devalues their input.
And plenty of unreasonable sperglord goons, for that matter. |
Suzie Swindle
Code Enforcement and Compliance Agency
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:53:00 -
[793] - Quote
For those are saying CCP let them, its CCPs fault somers shouldnt be shut down... CCP is not shutting somers down (well at the moment somers shut down anyway) Somers did that, so blame Somers for blink not being up and going...
Now as for the "well CCP said they could so its CCPs fault"... that is crap and you can see it... a person from CCP did say they could run with a "buy plex at market value" from its customers, this is true, however once started "bonus" isk was being paid.. the exact same thing that was stopped last year...
Also, the same day that somers started up with the bonus for gametime scheme the CSM and CCP got into looking into it, its not as if CCP let this run for weeks and weeks and weeks.... So saying its CCPs fault for not checking and letting somers run with it for so long is their fault is not true, the acted as soon as things were not running as they should.
Somers tried to pull a fast one with his getting approval method to run his scheme, then got caught, CCP actted quickly which is why its only been a few days from start to end of the whole deal.... Now if CCP had let this run for weeks or something, ok sure blame CCP for messing up, but when CCP gets wind of a loop hole/exploit and begins work withing a day to fix/stop it... this is one time (wow still seems wierd typing this) that it is NOT CCPs fault. |
Fracoix
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:55:00 -
[794] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Fracoix wrote:Andski wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:If that was a joke, it was in poor taste. If it wasn't, I don't think spending money on gambling alone constitutes an addiction to gambling. Honestly, when you've lost enough ISK on Blink that you go full sunk cost and buy PLEX to replenish your losses and continue gambling, I think you have a problem. As far as poor taste jokes go this is pretty benign anyway It's only a problem if you can't afford it. Still got my job, friends, house etc.. So I'm not down and out mate From an in-character perspective, you are. If you run out of isk and have to borrow from your real wallet, your character is down and out. They psychology of it is pretty similar.
Oh what a impact those pixels got on my real life. Haha, go play a shrink elswhere
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 07:55:00 -
[795] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Except that they had authorisation from CCP. See, RMT results in a permaban IF it can be shown to be RMT AND it's not authorised by CCP. If you're going to throw out the blanket statement "RMT is punishable by permaban" then anyone who's ever bought PLEX and sold it for isk is in line for a permaban. Because that's RMT. It's trading real money for in-game money. The only difference is, CCP allows it.
The REAL difference here, of course, isn't that CCP approved Somer's promo, it's that it was Somer. Again, this whole debacle has just been another "Grr Somer", brought to you by people just looking to make mountains out of molehills.
I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?
Except that they had authorization to do something else. What they actually implemented was not what was approved, which would void the approval.
And no, RMT is not 'trading real money for isk', RMT is acquiring real money for in-game goods or services. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10986
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:02:00 -
[796] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Except that they had authorisation from CCP. See, RMT results in a permaban IF it can be shown to be RMT AND it's not authorised by CCP. If you're going to throw out the blanket statement "RMT is punishable by permaban" then anyone who's ever bought PLEX and sold it for isk is in line for a permaban. Because that's RMT. It's trading real money for in-game money. The only difference is, CCP allows it.
Sorry, but what CCP approved had nothing to do with what Somer implemented:
CCP Falcon wrote:In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.
Remiel Pollard wrote:The REAL difference here, of course, isn't that CCP approved Somer's promo, it's that it was Somer. Again, this whole debacle has just been another "Grr Somer", brought to you by people just looking to make mountains out of molehills.
I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?
Packing up Somer COULD be a sign of guilt. It could also be a sign of exactly what he says it is: he's sick of the bullshit. I would be too. In any case, assuming one way or the other definitively is an assumption, the same kind of assumption that lead to this manufactured outrage to begin with, and a sign that EVE's player-base isn't as bright as most of us believe.
First: if anybody in EVE RMTs as brazenly as Somer did, they will face the same "witch hunt" once somebody exposes it.
Second: Somer brought this on himself by giving CCP a horribly ambiguous proposal to sign off on and then going entirely against the spirit and the letter of the guidelines CCP set forth for PLEX referral incentives. Stop painting him as a victim.
I'm sure that a lot of people who were upset about this have it rooted in previous issues they've had with Somer, like losing everything on Blink, but believe it or not, a lot of us simply don't like it when people who are players first and foremost presume to be above the rules out of some sense of entitlement. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
the holtzman experience
52
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:05:00 -
[797] - Quote
Good riddance to bad rubbish. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20241
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:12:00 -
[798] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:RMT= converting ISK to real money. That's what Somer, Evenews24 and TMC are doing, they jump thru some hoops to get there, but the end result is the same. Dinsdale is going to be pissed when he finds out you've been stealing from his stash.
Seriously, lay off the kool aid, it's affecting your ability to distinguish between someone employing brazen obfuscation and deception to get around the rules, and someone who follows the rules to the letter.
As others have said if you feel that EN24, TMC, DotLan et al. are in violation of the rules set in place by CCP, with regards to ISK and OOG services, then present your evidence to CCP, who will deal with it appropriately; probably by filing it under B for bin or T for tinfoil.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
K1ng Splurge
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:15:00 -
[799] - Quote
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
Is what we call RMT or Real Money Trade. This form of buying ISK is NOT allowed at all in any way. You cannot buy ISK for real life money.
ISK buying and selling is against the EULA. Such ISK is confiscated (Typically double the amount is taken away so you can be in the negative) by the GMs and your account may be banned or suspended for being involved in it. Help keep the game balanced by reporting anyone eve-mailing or convoing you to buy ISK for real cash. No matter what website you see or go to no matter how "legal" they say it is. Buying ISK for Real life cash is RMT and a violation of the EULA.
Based on what i read above, doesn't that also apply to all users buying plex from Marquee Dragon and then accepting additional bonus isk for doing so from Somerblink?
That then raises, if that was considered RMT and stopped, why wasn't every user who done it banned? Since they (including myself) all accepted EULA when we started playing eve.
Because according to CCP "RMT = instant ban?"
|
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:18:00 -
[800] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?
Nah. If I was the victim of a witchhunt, I'd probably stand firm to my convictions in the belief that all the evidence would vindicate me.
On the other hand if I was a dedicated witch practitioner, and I'd been documenting all my witching on a public website, and I'd mailed a letter to the authorities lying about said witchcraft by trying to confuse it with harmless neopagan rituals, and I was the witchiest witch ever while holding an early copy of The Witcher 3...
Then I might want to just disappear when the witchhunt shows up with the stake and bonfire. |
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4223
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:22:00 -
[801] - Quote
Klyith wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?
Nah. If I was the victim of a witchhunt, I'd probably stand firm to my convictions in the belief that all the evidence would vindicate me.
That would be fine, provided the crowd didn't kill you first based on circumstantial assumption, bias, and the fact that they just never liked you to begin with. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Victor Andall
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:27:00 -
[802] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Klyith wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?
Nah. If I was the victim of a witchhunt, I'd probably stand firm to my convictions in the belief that all the evidence would vindicate me. That would be fine, provided the crowd didn't kill you first based on circumstantial assumption, bias, and the fact that they just never liked you to begin with.
Oh come on, Remiel. When has something like that EVER happened? I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10989
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:27:00 -
[803] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That would be fine, provided the crowd didn't kill you first based on circumstantial assumption, bias, and the fact that they just never liked you to begin with.
these underlying motives simply don't exist Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Fallon Talwyn
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:28:00 -
[804] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Ohkewl wrote: You say you represent the players but that is a lie. You might represent the 50 or so loudmouths here, but there are far more players that use the blink website, and you sure arent representing them. You just showed how valuable the CSM is.
I wonder if neighbourhood junkies complain when the local dealer is arrested.m Not really helping your case.
Red herring ftw! |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2368
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:28:00 -
[805] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Klyith wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?
Nah. If I was the victim of a witchhunt, I'd probably stand firm to my convictions in the belief that all the evidence would vindicate me. That would be fine, provided the crowd didn't kill you first based on circumstantial assumption, bias, and the fact that they just never liked you to begin with. Hyperbole aside, do you really think the investigation CCP started is unsubstantiated? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11206
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:30:00 -
[806] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Klyith wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: I don't care about Somer one way or the other, but if you were a victim of an unsubstantiated witchhunt, it'd probably be easier for you to just disappear, don't you agree?
Nah. If I was the victim of a witchhunt, I'd probably stand firm to my convictions in the belief that all the evidence would vindicate me. That would be fine, provided the crowd didn't kill you first based on circumstantial assumption, bias, and the fact that they just never liked you to begin with. Yes. All of it is circumstantial assumption, bias, and dislike. Don't pay any attention to the fact that Somer lied about the details of the program to get approval, a point which CCP agrees with after having consulted with that very same VP of sales in the emails. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11206
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:34:00 -
[807] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:This is like putting together a puzzle which was put into the wrong box, and Remiel here is arguing that until we put every piece of the puzzle together we can't conclude that the puzzle isn't the same as the picture on the box. Remiel Pollard still here to remind us that until we've put the final piece in the right spot, we can't tell what the picture shows at all. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:35:00 -
[808] - Quote
@CCP Falcon / CSM's / The EvE community as a whole.
Hello all,
I would like to start what will be a long post by saying its about 2am my time and I honestly couldn't sleep until I posted this. The idea of this post going through my mind over and over again until I said screw it and decided to start typing.
My name is Joe, I went to school for video game design and than pursued a carrier in IT, where I currently a Director of IT. I state this because I want you know know I am someone of educated statnding and wish to have people think really long and hard about what I am going to say.
How I currently understand this situation is simple. CCP legal didn't approve this matter and/or Somerset didn't agree to the terms outlined in being able to sell PLEX or whatever. Now I don't know all the particulars in this situation and I doubt anyone outside the realm of CCP will ever know, I want to pose this to everyone, especially CCP.
I appreciate that you guys want to be transparent and let us as a community understand this situation so we can trust a proper and fair out come will previel, but lets not kid our selves CCP as a whole has allowed far more cancerous and inconsistant things happen in this game than SomerBlink or RMT. Being this is EvE a game where mistrust and politics are the name of the game to often has truely toxic behavior been allowed to flourish. To many corps have scared people off with their scams or the abusive way the sov system works that has run off countless players. And by scams I don't refer to the obvious contract folks in jita. I mean the players who are offered a home move with all their belongings and than are held ransom.
So let me ask. Whats worse for our game and our community? SomerBlinks supposed RMT, or such toxic behavior that cripples a player so severly that they leave?
Than ask, who has quit over SomerBlink?
I personally spend my days sitting in a station spinning my ship or playing SomerBlink while I wait for a CTA to come up and go to work flying for my corp doing what is required. I am a player who has played off and on since closed beta.
Now I can only speak for myself and hopefully (what I think) is a silent majority who love Somer. That would be devastated if such a fun and creative service is closed for good. In so many dev blogs and posts, the staff at CCP have been amazed with the creativity of its players using features never thought of in the development process and have always hailed this communities spirit. Is this not one of its crown jewels? Adding a fun social idea to allow plaers another avenue to enjoy this game and its community? A place where I see reds and blues and nuets all coming together to enjoy a fun (and sometimes isk crippling) game?
I ask as a player, as a developer as someone who just loves the concept of EvE, regardless of the outcome of whatever happens to Somerset that SomerBlink be allowed to stay and floruish and remain a mainstay of creativity of what this community can do. I personally don't want to see that creative flame die. We all know EvE is up against a wall with Star Citizen coming. So I ask lets not tear down a thing that helps make this game enjoyable and focus on real community issues that offer true harm to its players and community. Taking down SomerBlink isn't just bad the community its bad for Business.
Sorry for any typoes as I wrote this in the IGB.
Thank you for your time reading this long post.
Brahan Seer |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:35:00 -
[809] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: That would be fine, provided the crowd didn't kill you first based on circumstantial assumption, bias, and the fact that they just never liked you to begin with.
So who's been killed? There may be an angry mob, but I don't see a Cotton Mather in charge. Just the good folks at CCP who said "hold on, we're going to do our own investigation and we'll get back to you when we've considered the evidence. Thanks to the CSM who brought this to our attention."
Also it said on Somer Blink's website the price he was paying for referral plexes and the steps to getting your referral code validated (so that Somer knew you'd indirectly given him money). That's hardly circumstantial. That's a sacrificed goat and a pentagram drawn in human blood.
Now if you want to see a real witchhunt, we could talk about the Erotica1 thing. In that case the defendant was pretty much Satan himself, but it was still a stampede of outrage and cynical publicity ploys. |
Dyscordia
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:36:00 -
[810] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Cherry Yeyo wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Ralk Orin wrote:Well I took a year break from EVE and the only reason I kept one account up was to play blink and set some skills. I am sad to see Blink go the way of the Dodo. I did get the remainder of my isk I had deposited with them back.
I understand his reasoning for shutting down the site, the witch hunt that is this investigation and community uproar and calling for Somer's head.
I think now that GTC's have been removed and plex can only be sold at CCP's price they need to remove all third party suppliers. and just have CCP as the only source of plex. that would pretty much prevent this from happening again. It is my understanding that this issue has very little to do with third party suppliers and everything to do with one individual offering an in-game incentive to use a referral link. Just because the referral link was for the purchase of PLEX does not mean that all PLEX sales by every third party has anything to do with the issue. The guy was out of line, everybody recognized it last year and then they basically deceived a VP at CCP into signing off on the same thing this year. Incentives to use his button rather than anyone elses It's an important distinction to make though that incentives by themselves are not a bad thing, only when they involve in-game items or services (in this case trading PLEX for higher than market price).
When it comes down to it the only incentives that actually matter and are doable for third party referrals are: PLEX , in-game items or services such as the one you cited. All of which is all out RMT at its worst, or an extreme gray area of EULA Legalese that is taking CCP months to sort out at its best. This becomes even harder to swallow when the average EVE player is grinding 30-60 million isk per hour running high sec missions while Somer's community spotlight highlights the fact that his isk gambling site has trillions to quadrillions of isk circulating through it and millions of Blinks completing every 6 minutes. It's a glorified isk farm used to fuel problematic-EULA incentives for referrals. It's a very circular and self sustaining system that is undeniable. It's also a complicated system or everyone would be dancing around the EULA for referrals. It's hard to make a distinction when the whole system basically requires fake digital in-game items to function.
Now if you look at incentives by your definition: 'non in-game items or services which are not bad', you are left with material incentives, such as a free tee shirt or a bag of skittles. This route no longer becomes profitable as you have to purchase tens of thousands of dollars of give-away swag, store it, and then ship it. Players may not want your junk anyways. Isk is a tried and true commodity to EVE players. This is why Somer's doors are closing and he is not pursuing other types of incentives to fuel his income. It's simply not worth the effort. The system is no longer easy street or a cash cow.
While incentives by themselves in the strictest definition are not a bad thing, this entire scenario can't be cut up into individual components because it literally requires in-game items or services to be sustainable.
CCP Falcon wrote: WeGÇÖre also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and itGÇÖs very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors.
I can understand CCP's sentiment here. Yes, everyone enjoyed Blinks I guess and it kept players interested in EVE in a very roundabout way. But I never really agreed with the heavy handed approach that CCP took in promoting Blinks all these years. EVE is what should keep players interested in EVE and not the meta gaming sites. Let's promote some of the vision that the new Executive Producer has for this fantastic game.
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
277
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:37:00 -
[811] - Quote
Andski wrote:So who acted in bad faith? CCP, by approving an ambiguously worded proposal and then deciding that what was implemented was not what they approved, or Somer, by writing an ambiguously worded proposal, deceiving CCP and essentially implementing a similar referral incentive to what CCP previously made him discontinue?
I read the proposal and despite leaving out a key piece of information it's not ambiguous. Somer did not include the information about setting the price for trading PLEX, but that doesn't make the proposal ambiguous in any way. Actually it's so glaringly obvious that this key piece of information is missing that I am surprised A) that Somer did not include it and B) that the CCP rep didn't ask about it - it should have been the very first question.
From the communication Somer made public it seems that the CCP rep in question did not act very professional. At the very least it indicates that internal communication at CCP is far from where it should be. And that's why CCP deserves a good share of the blame.
All this doesn't mean Somer is innocent, of course. How anyone could believe that this PLEX buy back program were ok - no matter what a single CCP rep said - is completely beyond me. The very idea of this scheme is preposterous. And it's all the more disappointing since there are enough possibilities to use Somer's ISK to set a strong incentive to buy PLEX through the Markee referral link, that shouldn't get you in trouble with anyone (actually one of these ways is quite simple and should be obvious).
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Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
497
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:40:00 -
[812] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:a long post
It's a pity you didn't bother to read the first dozen or so pages of this thread, because if you had, you could have saved yourself the effort of writing this horribly ignorant post.
Somer hung himself by trying to engage in RMT for the second time. End of story. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:43:00 -
[813] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:a long post It's a pity you didn't bother to read the first dozen or so pages of this thread, because if you had, you could have saved yourself the effort of writing this horribly ignorant post. Somer hung himself by trying to engage in RMT for the second time. End of story.
Coming from the most toxic corp in the game, your corp has run off more players than a thousand RMT's would ever have done |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10990
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:46:00 -
[814] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Coming from the most toxic corp in the game, your corp has run off more players than a thousand RMT's would ever have done
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
498
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:47:00 -
[815] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Coming from the most toxic corp in the game, your corp has run off more players than a thousand RMT's would ever have done
Say for the sake of argument you are right (and you aren't). We didn't break any rules to do it, which is the difference. You also completely ignore the fact that have also ushered in a heck of a lot of players from day 1 newbee-dom to hardened bittervet. We're also content creators. Every player who took a chance on EVE because of the battles that made mainstream media, you can attribute to us (and the people we fought against).
But sure, Grr Goons all you like. Doesn't make a lick of difference to what Somer did, and what will happen to him. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5313
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:48:00 -
[816] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That would be fine, provided the crowd didn't kill you first based on circumstantial assumption, bias, and the fact that they just never liked you to begin with.
Good thing the crowd can't actually do anything to you in this case. Unless you're suggesting that CCP intentionally set Somer up for this? "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:48:00 -
[817] - Quote
So, all of a sudden somer closes its doors, and Its ok?
I mean He acted against EULA and what willh appen? He will walk out of the door?
Really?
WHat would happened if he could be a normal person but not somer?
If this is against EULA as it states below, then I demand that Rules should apply everyone equally and, I demand justice.
Quote:EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
Yes maybe he stopped RMT or closed his doors but yet again he seems he broke some rules, so CCP has to satisfy the publicity that whether If this is against EULA or not, with reasons and If -¦t is against EULA they have to show that they will apply the rule to everyone equally.
I for one demand justice. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11208
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:49:00 -
[818] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Coming from the most toxic corp in the game, your corp has run off more players than a thousand RMT's would ever have done Hi Joe.
Your post is still ignorant, Joe. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11208
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:51:00 -
[819] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:So, all of a sudden somer closes its doors, and Its ok?
I mean He acted against EULA and what willh appen? He will walk out of the door?
Really? I don't think anyone is saying that. At least, not anyone that wanted this to happen in the first place.
It does rather bother me that Somer's accounts aren't locked pending investigation, though. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:55:00 -
[820] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:KaRa DaVuT wrote:So, all of a sudden somer closes its doors, and Its ok?
I mean He acted against EULA and what willh appen? He will walk out of the door?
Really? I don't think anyone is saying that. At least, not anyone that wanted this to happen in the first place. It does rather bother me that Somer's accounts aren't locked pending investigation, though.
Thats the thing bothers me too. I mean think that what will happen If ever someone claimed that kara davut is RMT'ing..
THey will immediately frozen the account and start investigate..
In this case guy walts out of the door. I mean I dont what them to hang the guy but seriously.. Do something to show that you are not dropping the ball on this and show us that he will get the penalty of his actions...
I really demand justice. I and (I tihnk every other capsuleer in New Eden) wants to see that CCP is treating everyone equally on these kind of incidents. nothing else..
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K1ng Splurge
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:57:00 -
[821] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:a long post It's a pity you didn't bother to read the first dozen or so pages of this thread, because if you had, you could have saved yourself the effort of writing this horribly ignorant post. Somer hung himself by trying to engage in RMT for the second time. End of story.
Surely if its a second time, everyone who now took part should also be banned if Somer does?
If somer gets banned due to RMT, he is the seller, surely the buyers should be banned as well otherwise what gives? |
K1ng Splurge
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:00:00 -
[822] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:KaRa DaVuT wrote:So, all of a sudden somer closes its doors, and Its ok?
I mean He acted against EULA and what willh appen? He will walk out of the door?
Really? I don't think anyone is saying that. At least, not anyone that wanted this to happen in the first place. It does rather bother me that Somer's accounts aren't locked pending investigation, though. Thats the thing bothers me too. I mean think that what will happen If ever someone claimed that someone is RMT'ing.. THey will immediately frozen the account and start investigate.. In this case guy walks out of the door. I mean I dont what them to hang the guy but seriously.. Do something to show that you are not dropping the ball on this and show us that he will get the penalty of his actions... I really demand justice. I ( and every other capsuleer in New Eden) wants to see that CCP is treating everyone equally on these kind of incidents. nothing else.. I demand an act of trust...
I love how everyone is demanding justice!!!
Justice to you idiots would be Somer being banned, in turn banning every user who took part in Somerblink for bonus rewards and or "the new plex system" basically crippling eve online because 50% of users in eve played blink at some point.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:02:00 -
[823] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That would be fine, provided the crowd didn't kill you first based on circumstantial assumption, bias, and the fact that they just never liked you to begin with.
If the EVE community actually kills me, then you've got a point. Otherwise? No. Because I remain able to make my case.
And if they do kill me? Then I have nothing to worry about anymore, do I? |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5314
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:04:00 -
[824] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:I love how everyone is demanding justice!!!
Justice to you idiots would be Somer being banned, in turn banning every user who took part in Somerblink for bonus rewards and or "the new plex system" basically crippling eve online because 50% of users in eve played blink at some point.
Last I remember hearing, CCP's policy towards ISK buyers is to remove the ISK and warn them on the first event.
ISK sellers are the only ones who get the instant perma-banhammer.
Also, Blink advertised the RMT scheme as CCP approved. That lie from a formerly reputable source reduces the level of responsibility the buyers have. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:06:00 -
[825] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:
I love how everyone is demanding justice!!!
Justice to you idiots would be Somer being banned, in turn banning every user who took part in Somerblink for bonus rewards and or "the new plex system" basically crippling eve online because 50% of users in eve played blink at some point.
justice (noun)
1. the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: "to uphold the justice of a cause."
2. rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: "to complain with justice".
3. the moral principle determining just conduct.
4. conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment.
5. the administering of deserved punishment or reward.
6. the maintenance or administration of what is just by law, as by judicial or other proceedings: "a court of justice."
7. judgment of persons or causes by judicial process: "to administer justice in a community."
PS: For your consideration, I used the 5th and 7th meanings when I was referring the "justice". |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11209
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:06:00 -
[826] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:Justice to you idiots would be Somer being banned, in turn banning every user who took part in Somerblink for bonus rewards and or "the new plex system" basically crippling eve online because 50% of users in eve played blink at some point. Banning people who used Blink or their credit system would be ******* absurd and nobody of note is advocating this. It also doesn't logically follow from banning Somer. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2373
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:07:00 -
[827] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:K1ng Splurge wrote:I love how everyone is demanding justice!!!
Justice to you idiots would be Somer being banned, in turn banning every user who took part in Somerblink for bonus rewards and or "the new plex system" basically crippling eve online because 50% of users in eve played blink at some point. Last I remember hearing, CCP's policy towards ISK buyers is to remove the ISK and warn them on the first event. ISK sellers are the only ones who get the instant perma-banhammer. Also, Blink advertised the RMT scheme as CCP approved. That lie from a formerly reputable source reduces the level of responsibility the buyers have. Somer did advertise it as CCP approved, but that seems to have been confirmed by Falcon's comment regarding Somer's actions not being in line with the proposal. What isn't known is exactly what CCP approved. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11209
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:09:00 -
[828] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:I love how everyone is demanding justice!!!
Justice to you idiots would be Somer being banned, in turn banning every user who took part in Somerblink for bonus rewards and or "the new plex system" basically crippling eve online because 50% of users in eve played blink at some point.
Last I remember hearing, CCP's policy towards ISK buyers is to remove the ISK and warn them on the first event.[/quote] Actually now it's a removal of the ISK and a 7 day ban.
RubyPorto wrote:Also, Blink advertised the RMT scheme as CCP approved. That lie from a formerly reputable source reduces the level of responsibility the buyers have. Which leads me to suggest that they should be lenient towards those who used it. Warnings perhaps, but no isk removal (that would be a ridiculous mess) and no bans. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10992
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:09:00 -
[829] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:I love how everyone is demanding justice!!!
Justice to you idiots would be Somer being banned, in turn banning every user who took part in Somerblink for bonus rewards and or "the new plex system" basically crippling eve online because 50% of users in eve played blink at some point.
No it wouldn't, because CCP has tacitly endorsed SOMERblink enough times in the past that those who took part in that would assume that it's alright. But Somerset Mahm and potentially his staff (at least his attack dog Andrev) should face the appropriate punishments. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
K1ng Splurge
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:10:00 -
[830] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Last I remember hearing, CCP's policy towards ISK buyers is to remove the ISK and warn them on the first event.
They will be removing alot of isk from many accounts should their investigation turn out to be a RMT, fair enough? Also, assuming we done it multiple times, does it count as a first offense or multiple offenses? So again, multiple PLEX purchases for bonus or "new scheme" would be bannable.
RubyPorto wrote:ISK sellers are the only ones who get the instant perma-banhammer. Hardly seems fair but valid and i don't disagree with this.
RubyPorto wrote:Also, Blink advertised the RMT scheme as CCP approved. That lie from a formerly reputable source reduces the level of responsibility the buyers have. Everyone is going by the assumption that somer's mails he advertised on the site aren't legit, should they turn out to be accurate and true and the intent behind the new RMT scheme was legit, who then takes the blame?
|
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:12:00 -
[831] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:I love how everyone is demanding justice!!!
Justice to you idiots would be Somer being banned, in turn banning every user who took part in Somerblink for bonus rewards and or "the new plex system" basically crippling eve online because 50% of users in eve played blink at some point.
Considering that Somer was told to knock it off and allowed to continue operating a year ago - and was then given free goodies - I think that the players who used his service can (and should) be considered to have a reasonable expectation of the very approval Somer claims to have gotten from CCP. The fact that CCP's approval was for a markedly different transaction structure can't be held against the players, because as per the Terms of Service, Somer wasn't allowed to reveal the contents of his communication with any CCP representatives without their express approval (which, obviously, he had no motive to get).
And, if you'll look, it appears the only one calling for your head (and those of everyone else who functioned as Somer's unwitting pawns in this)... is you. |
K1ng Splurge
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:12:00 -
[832] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Also, Blink advertised the RMT scheme as CCP approved. That lie from a formerly reputable source reduces the level of responsibility the buyers have. Which leads me to suggest that they should be lenient towards those who used it. Warnings perhaps, but no isk removal (that would be a ridiculous mess) and no bans.[/quote]
But how is that fair towards Somer? I thought CCP was fair and just in their pursuit in RMT?
Surely banning somer or the punishment should be equal to those who took part?
You basically saying, its ok if we all beat someone to death but only he who actually lays the final blow counts for punishment?
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5314
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:14:00 -
[833] - Quote
[quote=James Amril-Kesh] Actually now it's a removal of the ISK and a 7 day ban.
Ah, new policy.
Quote:Which leads me to suggest that they should be lenient towards those who used it. Warnings perhaps, but no isk removal (that would be a ridiculous mess) and no bans.
Exactly. Though, if they can remove the extra ISK conveniently, why not. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:14:00 -
[834] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:Everyone is going by the assumption that somer's mails he advertised on the site aren't legit, should they turn out to be accurate and true and the intent behind the new RMT scheme was legit, who then takes the blame?
Actually, everyone's operating on the premise that Somer's mails are 100% legit, and then analyzing those mails. Doing so shows that he used very deliberate phrasing to present one thing, and then used the approval of that process to implement a similar, but markedly different process which was not approved. |
Jommis
Glueless The Veyr Collective
91
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:14:00 -
[835] - Quote
Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility.
It's not a murder case. They broke the rules.
Ban them.. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:14:00 -
[836] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Last I remember hearing, CCP's policy towards ISK buyers is to remove the ISK and warn them on the first event. They will be removing alot of isk from many accounts should their investigation turn out to be a RMT, fair enough? Also, assuming we done it multiple times, does it count as a first offense or multiple offenses? So again, multiple PLEX purchases for bonus or "new scheme" would be bannable. RubyPorto wrote:ISK sellers are the only ones who get the instant perma-banhammer. Hardly seems fair but valid and i don't disagree with this. RubyPorto wrote:Also, Blink advertised the RMT scheme as CCP approved. That lie from a formerly reputable source reduces the level of responsibility the buyers have. Everyone is going by the assumption that somer's mails he advertised on the site aren't legit, should they turn out to be accurate and true and the intent behind the new RMT scheme was legit, who then takes the blame?
Well If you did not do anything against the rules, you should not have have anything to worry about.
BUT
If you made anything against the rules, then my friend you also deserve some "justice".
It is simple is that. If you only played blinks bongs etc. whatever the thing that is, and did not do anything wrong, then there is noting to be afraid of.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10992
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:15:00 -
[837] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:But how is that fair towards Somer? I thought CCP was fair and just in their pursuit in RMT?
Surely banning somer or the punishment should be equal to those who took part?
You basically saying, its ok if we all beat someone to death but only he who actually lays the final blow counts for punishment?
"the people who took part in this by taking advantage of the bonus shouldn't be banned because it'd be unfair but here's why they should be banned to make it fair" Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:16:00 -
[838] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:Surely banning somer or the punishment should be equal to those who took part?
Those who acted in good faith, with a reasonable assumption of good faith and legitimacy on the part of the other party, should not face the same punishment as the individual who acted in bad faith and tricked others into breaking the rules, no. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:17:00 -
[839] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:
You basically saying, its ok if we all beat someone to death but only he who actually lays the final blow counts for punishment?
Well I for one not saying that, I even trying to say exactly the opposite.
Who is responsible from this should be punished or penalized.
CCP VP's or Somer lower staff whatever. But everyone who is invovled should be penalized in order to prevent this ever happen again.
Look this is not just a simple RMT thing OK. They try to show this that way, and they try to make this get cooler. But there is more invovement that they explained. They just want this to be cool down in order to save themselves.
I jsut want whoever is responsible, then it should be deeply investigated with a non-biased investigators including neutral people, trustworthy people.
I am advocating this. |
K1ng Splurge
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:17:00 -
[840] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:And, if you'll look, it appears the only one calling for your head (and those of everyone else who functioned as Somer's unwitting pawns in this)... is you.
GÇ£It is better to risk saving a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one.GÇ¥ |
|
K1ng Splurge
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:19:00 -
[841] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Those who acted in good faith, with a reasonable assumption of good faith and legitimacy on the part of the other party, should not face the same punishment as the individual who acted in bad faith and tricked others into breaking the rules, no.
And we are assuming CCP will decide on the difference between bad faith and good faith?
Taking into account the start of this entire mess in the first place being CCP giving faction ships? Endorsing it?
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:20:00 -
[842] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:GÇ£It is better to risk saving a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one.GÇ¥
Blackstone's Principle. The phrasing I prefer is: "It is better that a hundred guilty men go free than a single innocent be punished. For if innocence is no defense, then the common man will cry, 'What value hath virtue?' "
That said, I stand by my statement that you are the only one calling for your head:
K1ing Splurge wrote:Surely banning somer or the punishment should be equal to those who took part?
The rest of us seem quite content to see the actual malfeasance punished, and let the dupes walk. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5314
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:22:00 -
[843] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:They will be removing alot of isk from many accounts should their investigation turn out to be a RMT, fair enough? Also, assuming we done it multiple times, does it count as a first offense or multiple offenses? So again, multiple PLEX purchases for bonus or "new scheme" would be bannable.
Yes, First, No. Stepped punishments are a training tool, you employ a punishment each time you catch a bad act, you don't just skip steps because they did it a bunch of times in rapid succession (this thing was only live for a couple days).
In other words, you don't shoot the dog just because it peed on three carpets while you were out.
Quote:Hardly seems fair but valid and i don't disagree with this.
Most ISK buyers are ignorant rather than malicious. ISK sellers, on the other hand, have had ample opportunity to know exactly why their operation is against the rules.
Quote:Everyone is going by the assumption that somer's mails he advertised on the site aren't legit, should they turn out to be accurate and true and the intent behind the new RMT scheme was legit, who then takes the blame?
Wrong. I'm assuming the mails are a true and complete account of his interaction with CCP, and that the proposal is the same as the one the VP of Sales agreed to.
The evidence that Somer presented in his own defense damns him for several reasons: 1) The proposal doesn't match what Somer actually did, meaning that any authorization from CCP is void. 2) The proposal is intentionally vague and misleading, meaning that any agreement on CCP's part is void. 2) The VP of sales is not the person to go to with this, and Somer knows that. That's called forum shopping. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2374
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:23:00 -
[844] - Quote
Andski wrote:K1ng Splurge wrote:But how is that fair towards Somer? I thought CCP was fair and just in their pursuit in RMT?
Surely banning somer or the punishment should be equal to those who took part?
You basically saying, its ok if we all beat someone to death but only he who actually lays the final blow counts for punishment?
"the people who took part in this by taking advantage of the bonus shouldn't be banned because it'd be unfair but here's why they should be banned to make it fair" "I have an unfortunate habit of attributing fake quotes to people." |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:23:00 -
[845] - Quote
K1ng Splurge wrote:And we are assuming CCP will decide on the difference between bad faith and good faith?
Taking into account the start of this entire mess in the first place being CCP giving faction ships? Endorsing it?
I would say that as a modern, developed nation with a tradition of Western Jurisprudence and democratic principles that extends back over a thousand years, with employees who hail from multiple nations where Innocent Until Proven Guilty is the order of the day, yes, it is exceedingly premature to presume that CCP will blame the people who were simply used by Somer. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:23:00 -
[846] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:K1ng Splurge wrote:GÇ£It is better to risk saving a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one.GÇ¥ Blackstone's Principle. The phrasing I prefer is: "It is better that a hundred guilty men go free than a single innocent be punished. For if innocence is no defense, then the common man will cry, 'What value hath virtue?' " That said, I stand by my statement that you are the only one calling for your head: K1ing Splurge wrote:Surely banning somer or the punishment should be equal to those who took part? The rest of us seem quite content to see the actual malfeasance punished, and let the dupes walk.
Shocked I am finding myself in agreemtn with most of what you say.
But at the end of the night none of us know what was truely agreed upon. Somer may or not be innocnet but this worthless speculation by everyone is becoming tireless. My personal belief is that this has always been a labor of love for Somerset and the somerblink staff. I fail to see a reason to undermine and possible destroy it. Maybe this was a reasonable misunderstanding maybe it wasn't but spinning this one way or another doesn't benefit anyone :/ |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:27:00 -
[847] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Andski wrote:So who acted in bad faith? CCP, by approving an ambiguously worded proposal and then deciding that what was implemented was not what they approved, or Somer, by writing an ambiguously worded proposal, deceiving CCP and essentially implementing a similar referral incentive to what CCP previously made him discontinue? I read the proposal and despite leaving out a key piece of information it's not ambiguous. Somer did not include the information about setting the price for trading PLEX, but that doesn't make the proposal ambiguous in any way. Actually it's so glaringly obvious that this key piece of information is missing that I am surprised A) that Somer did not include it and B) that the CCP rep didn't ask about it - it should have been the very first question. From the communication Somer made public it seems that the CCP rep in question did not act very professional. At the very least it indicates that internal communication at CCP is far from where it should be. And that's why CCP deserves a good share of the blame. All this doesn't mean Somer is innocent, of course. How anyone could believe that this PLEX buy back program were ok - no matter what a single CCP rep said - is completely beyond me. The very idea of this scheme is preposterous. And it's all the more disappointing since there are enough possibilities to use Somer's ISK to set a strong incentive to buy PLEX through the Markee referral link, that shouldn't get you in trouble with anyone (actually one of these ways is quite simple and should be obvious).
The gist of it is that Somer & Markee gamed CCP, preying on known weaknesses (which in many ways are also part of CCP's strengths). The other crux of it is that CCP stumbled over some innate internal organisation / behaviour which developed at CCP after the age that ended roughly around the time of CCP Kieron's goodbye.
For customers it's easy to punch through what Somer and Markee put on the table to CCP. It's easy to say that the VP Sales should have known better, or should have known to never take chances where it comes to customers, but this is the problem of EVE not being a bottle of Wodka. It's not a product or just a service. If you want to sell EVE, you really need to live and breathe it. Hilmar was right about that, but (no pun intended to CCP) but this case is another example of how important it is to do it and not just say that.
There's many angles to this, it's hardly a simple case. It'll take CCP a long time to come to terms with this, because it is not the first time they've gotten suckerpunched by players gaming them, and yet they can never cut off that relation or shun participation by themselves in that dynamic because they're an integral part of the dynamic as a whole. The game, the venture, everything.
So cut them some slack, and let's give it some time.
There's plenty blame to pass around, but what's really important is figuring it all out without CCP further segregating themselves from this immersive, inclusive, emergent venture that is EVE.
|
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
225
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:29:00 -
[848] - Quote
This thread is the sole reason USA needs military vehicles for their police forces. Mob justice is king and no one listens to the 99% who are trying to act in a sensible manner.
Only way to crack down on a mob is to have bigger toys and actively use them. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:29:00 -
[849] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Somer may or not be innocnet but this worthless speculation by everyone is becoming tireless. My personal belief is that this has always been a labor of love for Somerset and the somerblink staff. I fail to see a reason to undermine and possible destroy it. Maybe this was a reasonable misunderstanding maybe it wasn't but spinning this one way or another doesn't benefit anyone :/
Minor quibble: I believe you mean 'tiresome'.
Substantive reply: As a point, right now we have absolutely no evidence that CCP forced Somer to shut Blink down. He did that. He is the only one who destroyed the part of his operation that wasn't breaking any rules. By his own words this decision was his. That's not speculation. That's what he said, on his site.
To assert anything else is speculation. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:31:00 -
[850] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:This thread is the sole reason USA needs military vehicles for their police forces. Mob justice is king and no one listens to the 99% who are trying to act in a sensible manner.
Only way to crack down on a mob is to have bigger toys and actively use them.
Precisely what 'mob justice' are you seeing in the thread? Falcon's team has been investigating. Nothing anyone has said in this thread has changed that fact. Somer shut down his site because he didn't like what he was hearing from CCP. Not from us, from CCP. Where's the mob? |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8960
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:32:00 -
[851] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Mob justice is king
Bunch of people: "Hey, CCP, you should look into this, it might be RMT"
CCP: "Ok, we'll have a look"
Somer: "I quit all of a sudden"
What part of that is "mob justice" to you? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
flakeys
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2415
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:32:00 -
[852] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote: My personal belief is that this has always been a labor of love for Somerset and the somerblink staff/
It's a gambling site , it's designed to empty your pockets and rank isk for their own benefit.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:33:00 -
[853] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Somer may or not be innocnet but this worthless speculation by everyone is becoming tireless. My personal belief is that this has always been a labor of love for Somerset and the somerblink staff. I fail to see a reason to undermine and possible destroy it. Maybe this was a reasonable misunderstanding maybe it wasn't but spinning this one way or another doesn't benefit anyone :/ Minor quibble: I believe you mean 'tiresome'. Substantive reply: As a point, right now we have absolutely no evidence that CCP forced Somer to shut Blink down. He did that. He is the only one who destroyed the part of his operation that wasn't breaking any rules. By his own words this decision was his. That's not speculation. That's what he said, on his site. To assert anything else is speculation.
Yeah typoes getting a bit rough at this hour and it's "she" but you are correct, she or one of the staffers put up the message stating they took it down and CCP didn't request or force the closure. Not sure if it's just the stress or a show of good will that they want to make this right. just not sure, all I know is its a bummer espeically during a celebration :( |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:33:00 -
[854] - Quote
"When elephants start to fight, the grass will always smashed the ground"
Somer vs CCP.. The grass is the innocents K1ng Splurge talks about.
This is just the case.
I wont believe that CCP is %100 innocent, also Somer did things against some rules. It is obvious. They should not drop the ball because Somer closes its doors.
The party who punish the guilty is the one also a part of the problem. THat makes me thinkg that If they will be fair or not... I except them to be righteous, and treat Somer like every other RMT'er. That at least, maybe calm the community and they could gain a wee bit trust that they lost during the process.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10992
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:34:00 -
[855] - Quote
111010110 wrote:The gist of it is that Somer & Markee gamed CCP, preying on known weaknesses (which in many ways are also part of CCP's strengths). The other crux of it is that CCP stumbled over some innate internal organisation / behaviour which developed at CCP after the age that ended roughly around the time of CCP Kieron's goodbye.
I honestly don't think Markee was involved in this beyond his partnership with Somer.
It seems that MD wanted Somer to provide written permission from CCP to carry on with this program, as I strongly doubt he'd risk his reseller status to keep on a single lucrative affiliate. CCP gave the go-ahead, MD then gave the go-ahead, and Somer implemented the thing. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:35:00 -
[856] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:This thread is the sole reason USA needs military vehicles for their police forces. Mob justice is king and no one listens to the 99% who are trying to act in a sensible manner.
Only way to crack down on a mob is to have bigger toys and actively use them.
This is not mob justice.
This is a COMMUNITY that tries to solve the problem with free thinking. If you cant deal with other people's opinions then I suggest you to read somewhere else.
|
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:35:00 -
[857] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:"When elephants start to fight, the grass will always smashed the ground"
Somer vs CCP.. The grass is the innocents K1ng Splurge talks about.
This is just the case.
I wont believe that CCP is %100 innocent, also Somer did things against some rules. It is obvious. They should not drop the ball because Somer closes its doors.
The party who punish the guilty is the one also a part of the problem. THat makes me thinkg that If they will be fair or not... I except them to be righteous, and treat Somer like every other RMT'er. That at least, maybe calm the community and they could gain a wee bit trust that they lost during the process.
Your operating on the assumption that Somer is guilty. |
K1ng Splurge
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:35:00 -
[858] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:This thread is the sole reason USA needs military vehicles for their police forces. Mob justice is king and no one listens to the 99% who are trying to act in a sensible manner.
Only way to crack down on a mob is to have bigger toys and actively use them. Precisely what 'mob justice' are you seeing in the thread? Falcon's team has been investigating. Nothing anyone has said in this thread has changed that fact. Somer shut down his site because he didn't like what he was hearing from CCP. Not from us, from CCP. Where's the mob?
He may be referring to us as "mob" with our discussion on this thread.
Arrendis wrote:Minor quibble: I believe you mean 'tiresome'.
Substantive reply: As a point, right now we have absolutely no evidence that CCP forced Somer to shut Blink down. He did that. He is the only one who destroyed the part of his operation that wasn't breaking any rules. By his own words this decision was his. That's not speculation. That's what he said, on his site.
To assert anything else is speculation.
Well said Arrendis
Again, everyone waits for an "official post" or announcement but while we do, some community members, such as myself, enjoy a debate that won't end up with ISD blocking all our posts.
GÇ£Time spent arguing is, oddly enough, almost never wasted.GÇ¥ |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
373
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:37:00 -
[859] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:
This is not mob justice.
This is a COMMUNITY that tries to solve the problem with Our Master tell us to make noise about it.
i've fixed it for you RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
122
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:38:00 -
[860] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:But at the end of the night none of us know what was truely agreed upon. That's right. However, the mail chain that Somer published in his defense (and in violation of the ToS, I might add) doesn't actually defend him - in fact, it shows that what he got approved by CCP doesn't match what he actually implemented later. (Also since this isn't a criminal trial, we don't need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and the evidence we do have suggests that the fault lies with Somer.) Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10992
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:38:00 -
[861] - Quote
Also, it's not mob justice. CCP leaves a thread open for angry posters to be angry in and reduce moderator workload while the grownups at CCP talk. I doubt a single post in this thread was even considered in those discussions. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2374
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:38:00 -
[862] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:This thread is the sole reason USA needs military vehicles for their police forces... Really? I mean, I just... really? |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:42:00 -
[863] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:But at the end of the night none of us know what was truely agreed upon. That's right. However, the mail chain that Somer published in his defense (and in violation of the ToS, I might add) doesn't actually defend him - in fact, it shows that what he got approved by CCP doesn't match what he actually implemented later. (Also since this isn't a criminal trial, we don't need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and the evidence we do have suggests that the fault lies with Somer.)
I'm sure their is fault on both sides to some extent. I think we can all agree upon that. But what I encourage people to think about is, Just to play devils advocat for a moment. What if Somer is guilty and maliciously thought she had a loophole to make money and sell isk or whatever. has that personally affected you? Would her doing RMT out weigh the good SomerBlink has done for the community and players? If it doesn't out weigh the good how do you punish? Because realistically if you ban somer a lot of parties get punished by proxy. Is that nessesarily fair? No. But it's the reality of the situation. |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
277
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:42:00 -
[864] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: The evidence that Somer presented in his own defense damns him for several reasons: 1) The proposal doesn't match what Somer actually did, meaning that any authorization from CCP is void. 2) The proposal is intentionally vague and misleading, meaning that any agreement on CCP's part is void. 3) The VP of sales is not the person to go to with this, and Somer knows that. That's called forum shopping.
1) I just read the proposal again to be sure: For what's it worth Somer followed it to the letter, meaining you are wrong.
2) The proposal is neither vague nor misleading. Even if it were, it would be in CCPs responsibility to ask about anything they think is unclear before agreeing to the proposal. Meaning you are wrong again.
3) Are you sure the VP of sales is not the person to go through with this? If she isn't shouldn't SHE know this better than anyone else and provide the correct person(s) to talk to? And if she isn't yet continues to talk to Somer as if she were, why do you believe that Somer knew better? I don't think you got this right either.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:42:00 -
[865] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:"When elephants start to fight, the grass will always smashed the ground"
Somer vs CCP.. The grass is the innocents K1ng Splurge talks about.
This is just the case.
I wont believe that CCP is %100 innocent, also Somer did things against some rules. It is obvious. They should not drop the ball because Somer closes its doors.
The party who punish the guilty is the one also a part of the problem. THat makes me thinkg that If they will be fair or not... I except them to be righteous, and treat Somer like every other RMT'er. That at least, maybe calm the community and they could gain a wee bit trust that they lost during the process.
I don't think anyone's saying CCP did its due diligence in this. Clearly, there are internal communcation issues between the teams that need to be resolved. But the same disconnect that made Somer's deceit possible in the first place is actually a positive now: It's not the same party that caused this that will determine punishments. It's a different, albeit related, team.
Will there be repercussions w/in CCP? Possibly. Do I expect CCP's HR department to violate pretty much every normal HR disciplinary policy in the world (and a number of laws, in many places) and tell us about those repercussions? Not for a moment. If the VP gets docked pay to cover the extra hours by Falcon's team, or loses some vacation time, or gets a 'you screwed up' in their file, or whatever, over this, HR isn't gonna tell us. In any responsible HR department, the rule is simple: HR doesn't tell anyone about disciplinary action.
But that, too, will be determined by a different party than the one who didn't take this proposal to the people who know the game well enough to see the problems. And as much as we might want to see all of the justice there is to be done, that's not always possible. So we judge CCP's actions on what we do see, and hope what we don't see is at least as acceptable. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5315
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:43:00 -
[866] - Quote
Andski wrote:Also, it's not mob justice. CCP leaves a thread open for angry posters to be angry in and reduce moderator workload while the grownups at CCP talk. I doubt a single post in this thread was even considered in those discussions.
Abrazzer's post, maybe. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:45:00 -
[867] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Abrazzer's post, maybe.
It was a damn good one, huh? |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:45:00 -
[868] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:KaRa DaVuT wrote:"When elephants start to fight, the grass will always smashed the ground"
Somer vs CCP.. The grass is the innocents K1ng Splurge talks about.
This is just the case.
I wont believe that CCP is %100 innocent, also Somer did things against some rules. It is obvious. They should not drop the ball because Somer closes its doors.
The party who punish the guilty is the one also a part of the problem. THat makes me thinkg that If they will be fair or not... I except them to be righteous, and treat Somer like every other RMT'er. That at least, maybe calm the community and they could gain a wee bit trust that they lost during the process.
Your operating on the assumption that Somer is guilty.
THere is clearly something against the rules doesn't it? I operated on teh assumption of he broke some rules/laws. like
Quote:Terms Of Service:
10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.
11. The advertisement or sale of out of game goods and services not directly related to EVE online is prohibited. The only out of game goods and services which can be advertised or sold are the following: EVE forum signature creation, website and third party voice communication server hosting or EVE Time Codes.
or
EULA violation. Article A states:
Quote:Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited.
|
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:48:00 -
[869] - Quote
Arrendis wrote: I don't think anyone's saying CCP did its due diligence in this. Clearly, there are internal communcation issues between the teams that need to be resolved. But the same disconnect that made Somer's deceit possible in the first place is actually a positive now: It's not the same party that caused this that will determine punishments. It's a different, albeit related, team.
Will there be repercussions w/in CCP? Possibly. Do I expect CCP's HR department to violate pretty much every normal HR disciplinary policy in the world (and a number of laws, in many places) and tell us about those repercussions? Not for a moment. If the VP gets docked pay to cover the extra hours by Falcon's team, or loses some vacation time, or gets a 'you screwed up' in their file, or whatever, over this, HR isn't gonna tell us. In any responsible HR department, the rule is simple: HR doesn't tell anyone about disciplinary action.
But that, too, will be determined by a different party than the one who didn't take this proposal to the people who know the game well enough to see the problems. And as much as we might want to see all of the justice there is to be done, that's not always possible. So we judge CCP's actions on what we do see, and hope what we don't see is at least as acceptable.
You are truly right. I missed the HR does not say diciplinary actions part. Well, I hope they will fix these for good.
Thank you for your response |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5316
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:48:00 -
[870] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote: 1) I just read the proposal again to be sure: For what's it worth Somer followed it to the letter, meaining you are wrong.
2) The proposal is neither vague nor misleading. Even if it were, it would be in CCPs responsibility to ask about anything they think is unclear before agreeing to the proposal. Meaning you are wrong again.
3) Are you sure the VP of sales is not the person to go through with this? If she isn't shouldn't SHE know this better than anyone else and provide the correct person(s) to talk to? And if she isn't yet continues to talk to Somer as if she were, why do you believe that Somer knew better? I don't think you got this right either.
Proposal wrote:Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link
*AHEM* 50m over sell orders that is available if and only if you buy through the link is: "extra," it's "ISK," and it's "for buying through the link." i.e. exactly what Somer promised not to do.
3) Why wouldn't Somer go to the community team who they have talked to many times before? Why go to someone far less likely to be well versed in the nuances of EVE? "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2375
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:52:00 -
[871] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote: 1) I just read the proposal again to be sure: For what's it worth Somer followed it to the letter, meaining you are wrong.
2) The proposal is neither vague nor misleading. Even if it were, it would be in CCPs responsibility to ask about anything they think is unclear before agreeing to the proposal. Meaning you are wrong again.
3) Are you sure the VP of sales is not the person to go through with this? If she isn't shouldn't SHE know this better than anyone else and provide the correct person(s) to talk to? And if she isn't yet continues to talk to Somer as if she were, why do you believe that Somer knew better? I don't think you got this right either.
Proposal wrote:Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link *AHEM* 50m over sell orders that is available if and only if you buy through the link is: "extra," it's "ISK," and it's "for buying through the link." i.e. exactly what Somer promised not to do. 3) Why wouldn't Somer go to the community team who they have talked to many times before? Why go to someone far less likely to be well versed in the nuances of EVE? It looks like Somer clearly overstepped the bounds of the agreement, but to be fair that proposal should never have been given the green light. Even if it was followed to the letter it still constitutes RMT. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5316
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:55:00 -
[872] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:It looks like Somer clearly overstepped the bounds of the agreement, but to be fair that proposal should never have been given the green light. Even if it was followed to the letter it still constitutes RMT.
If it was offered at Jita buy prices, or even (at a stretch) sell prices, it would be fine. Somer would have actually been providing a "let me be your Jita alt" service. But then that's not a particularly good incentive since Jita alts are so ubiquitous, so Somer wouldn't have stood to make nearly as much money. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
123
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:56:00 -
[873] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:What if Somer is guilty and maliciously thought she had a loophole to make money and sell isk or whatever. has that personally affected you? Would her doing RMT out weigh the good SomerBlink has done for the community and players? If it doesn't out weigh the good how do you punish? Because realistically if you ban somer a lot of parties get punished by proxy. Is that nessesarily fair? No. But it's the reality of the situation. No, Somer RMTing hasn't affected me. Neither has Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme, and he was quite widely known as a philantropist as well. Still doesn't mean he didn't break the rules and shouldn't be punished for it. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:57:00 -
[874] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote: Neither has Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme
I'd like to say Madoff affected me, but the truth is, the Wilpons are just terrible freaking owners, and the Mets are unlikely to do well while they're still in charge.
|
Jerin Crank
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:59:00 -
[875] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Enaris Kerle wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:But at the end of the night none of us know what was truely agreed upon. That's right. However, the mail chain that Somer published in his defense (and in violation of the ToS, I might add) doesn't actually defend him - in fact, it shows that what he got approved by CCP doesn't match what he actually implemented later. (Also since this isn't a criminal trial, we don't need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and the evidence we do have suggests that the fault lies with Somer.) I'm sure their is fault on both sides to some extent. I think we can all agree upon that. But what I encourage people to think about is, Just to play devils advocat for a moment. What if Somer is guilty and maliciously thought she had a loophole to make money and sell isk or whatever. has that personally affected you? Would her doing RMT out weigh the good SomerBlink has done for the community and players? If it doesn't out weigh the good how do you punish? Because realistically if you ban somer a lot of parties get punished by proxy. Is that nessesarily fair? No. But it's the reality of the situation.
To rephrase your devils advocate proposition slightly "Would the discovery of a legit way to RMT isk for $ out weight the good SomerBlink has done for the community and players?".
CCP had two choices, they could either declare the scheme legit and watch as every RMTer in the game moves to some variation of this scheme, or they had to declare the scheme not allowed, close it down and hand out appropriate punishment.
EDIT: FWIW the crux of the scheme is "out of game transaction gives a credit which entitles you to ingame above market price trade". Buy this picture of a piece of string for $15 and you get a special credit. If you have the special credit I will buy a trit from you for 1b ISK. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:59:00 -
[876] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:What if Somer is guilty and maliciously thought she had a loophole to make money and sell isk or whatever. has that personally affected you? Would her doing RMT out weigh the good SomerBlink has done for the community and players? If it doesn't out weigh the good how do you punish? Because realistically if you ban somer a lot of parties get punished by proxy. Is that nessesarily fair? No. But it's the reality of the situation. No, Somer RMTing hasn't affected me. Neither has Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme, and he was quite widely known as a philantropist as well. Still doesn't mean he didn't break the rules and shouldn't be punished for it.
Thats a pretty big stretch don't yeah think? like come on man :/ |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1856
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:59:00 -
[877] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:2) The proposal is neither vague nor misleading. Even if it were, it would be in CCPs responsibility to ask about anything they think is unclear before agreeing to the proposal. Meaning you are wrong again. Not really.
Until no other written document is signed, only the EULA and the official PLEX reseller agreements (whatever they're called) apply; no-one has any other responsibility.
If you're talking about informal, 'gentleman agreements', then I'd say Somer and Ms. Bell-Cabrera are the only two people in the world that can have a meaningful opionion on that. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:01:00 -
[878] - Quote
Jerin Crank wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Enaris Kerle wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:But at the end of the night none of us know what was truely agreed upon. That's right. However, the mail chain that Somer published in his defense (and in violation of the ToS, I might add) doesn't actually defend him - in fact, it shows that what he got approved by CCP doesn't match what he actually implemented later. (Also since this isn't a criminal trial, we don't need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and the evidence we do have suggests that the fault lies with Somer.) I'm sure their is fault on both sides to some extent. I think we can all agree upon that. But what I encourage people to think about is, Just to play devils advocat for a moment. What if Somer is guilty and maliciously thought she had a loophole to make money and sell isk or whatever. has that personally affected you? Would her doing RMT out weigh the good SomerBlink has done for the community and players? If it doesn't out weigh the good how do you punish? Because realistically if you ban somer a lot of parties get punished by proxy. Is that nessesarily fair? No. But it's the reality of the situation. To rephrase your devils advocate proposition slightly "Would the discovery of a legit way to RMT isk for $ out weight the good SomerBlink has done for the community and players?". CCP had two choices, they could either declare the scheme legit and watch as every RMTer in the game moves to some variation of this scheme, or they had to declare the scheme not allowed, close it down and hand out appropriate punishment.
So do what was done last time. Just don't have the plex service. maybe ding the somer corp wallet for the isk and be done with it. Would that not be the fairest corse of action without hurting the community that plays somer? |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2375
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:02:00 -
[879] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:It looks like Somer clearly overstepped the bounds of the agreement, but to be fair that proposal should never have been given the green light. Even if it was followed to the letter it still constitutes RMT. If it was offered at Jita buy prices, or even (at a stretch) sell prices, it would be fine. Somer would have actually been providing a "let me be your Jita alt" service. But then that's not a particularly good incentive since Jita alts are so ubiquitous, so Somer wouldn't have stood to make nearly as much money. It's not the buyback program in principle that's the problem, it's the premium Somer was paying to encourage purchase through the affiliate link. (And a buyback program would be a horrible pain to keep on the right side of RMT because of constant market fluctuations.) I have to disagree with this. RMT is not just defined by making a profit, it's the trade of any in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. Trading the services of a Jita alt for the use of their referral would still constitute RMT. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10993
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:02:00 -
[880] - Quote
Alliance leaders do a lot of good by creating content for hundreds or thousands of players, yet nobody whiteknighted them when they've RMTed. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
123
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:04:00 -
[881] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Thats a pretty big stretch don't yeah think? like come on man :/ He gave millions to cancer research, I think that's a lot more charitable than sponsoring imaginary spaceship events. Then again, Somer probably didn't steal from his employees' retirement funds.
Brahan Seer wrote:So do what was done last time. Just don't have the plex service. maybe ding the somer corp wallet for the isk and be done with it. Would that not be the fairest corse of action without hurting the community that plays somer? How often is Somer allowed to RMT before it outweighs his positive contributions to the community? You probably don't know him, but Elusif gave a lot of ISK to Goonwaffe members as christmas presents. For some reason CCP still thought that he should be banned for RMT. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1477
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:06:00 -
[882] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote: So do what was done last time. Just don't have the plex service. maybe ding the somer corp wallet for the isk and be done with it. Would that not be the fairest corse of action without hurting the community that plays somer?
Last time was a change in a long standing policy. That everyone was allowed to do and a number of others were doing as well as Somer. (Just only Somer thumbed their noses at CCP and abused the grace period)
This time was a clear cut case of Somer abusing the system, and the E-mails don't show a thing about what was actually approved other than a 'May Promotion' |
Jerin Crank
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:07:00 -
[883] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote: So do what was done last time. Just don't have the plex service. maybe ding the somer corp wallet for the isk and be done with it. Would that not be the fairest corse of action without hurting the community that plays somer?
Give him special treatment (like last time), so that we don't hurt the community? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10993
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:07:00 -
[884] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:So do what was done last time. Just don't have the plex service. maybe ding the somer corp wallet for the isk and be done with it. Would that not be the fairest corse of action without hurting the community that plays somer?
How would that be the fairest course of action? If you sell ISK for $$, you get a permanent ban. If I sell ISK for $$, I get a permanent ban. Why should they be more lenient with Somer, who have burned all their goodwill by 1) increasing the bonus to 1b blink credits last time CCP told them to stop, 2) publishing their correspondence with a CCP VP and 3) making hostile accusations against CCP when it was Somer that acted in bad faith? Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
298
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:09:00 -
[885] - Quote
So to sum it up Somer tried to play CCP sales rep, got burned for it and closed the business while giving back some of those hard scammed ISK for his cows ?
Anything I missed when I skimmed the last 20 pages ? |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:10:00 -
[886] - Quote
Nevyn/Enaris
Were still assuming she is guilty which we can't be certain of. Does it look good from what we do know? Absolutely not. But will just have to wait to see how it pans out.
Enaris As far as your question I truely don't have a good answer for that. Personally I could care less about RMT to be frank. And ill leave it at that as my reason would derail this convo. I just think banning somer having blink be dead does more harm to more people than good. Yes somer closed blink not CCP I get that but the two are related obviously. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
499
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:10:00 -
[887] - Quote
Baneken wrote:So to sum it up Somer tried to play CCP sales rep, got burned for it and closed the business while giving back some of those hard scammed ISK for his cows ?
Anything I missed when I skimmed the last 20 pages ?
A lot of tears from the addicts and shills. |
Memrox
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
125
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:11:00 -
[888] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Anything I missed when I skimmed the last 20 pages ?
Pitchforks.....
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5316
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:12:00 -
[889] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:I have to disagree with this. RMT is not just defined by making a profit, it's the trade of any in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. Trading the services of a Jita alt for the use of their referral would still constitute RMT.
I'm assuming that Somer was truthful when he said this:
Proposal wrote:This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented. Indicating that CCP is OK with providing services as affiliate link rewards. Whether that's good policy or not, I'm not sure. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10993
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:13:00 -
[890] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:I just think banning somer having blink be dead does more harm to more people than good.
It doesn't matter because somebody (or several somebodies) will step in to fill the hole. And, if they're hopefully not solely motivated by making RL $$ like Somer, the community will be better off for it. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
278
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:13:00 -
[891] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:1) I just read the proposal again to be sure: For what's it worth Somer followed it to the letter, meaining you are wrong.
2) The proposal is neither vague nor misleading. Even if it were, it would be in CCPs responsibility to ask about anything they think is unclear before agreeing to the proposal. Meaning you are wrong again.
3) Are you sure the VP of sales is not the person to go through with this? If she isn't shouldn't SHE know this better than anyone else and provide the correct person(s) to talk to? And if she isn't yet continues to talk to Somer as if she were, why do you believe that Somer knew better? I don't think you got this right either.
Proposal wrote:Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link *AHEM* 50m over sell orders that is available if and only if you buy through the link is: "extra," it's "ISK," and it's "for buying through the link." i.e. exactly what Somer promised not to do.
I didn't miss that line about "no extra ISK". And if you take this one sentence out of the context of the proposal I would agree that it sounds like saying one thing but doing another. But this line isn't stand alone. And if you reread the proposal you should realize that it means "no extra ISK in addition to the price paid for the PLEX".
The problem with the proposal is that it doesn't state how the price for PLEX is set. It just says that Somer will give the "best price anywhere in EVE". With this wording Somer could offer 10 Bn per PLEX and still would be within the boundaries of the proposal. Maybe it's just me, but I think this is most obvious and both sides - CCP and Somer - should have avoided leaving this open.
RubyPorto wrote: 3) Why wouldn't Somer go to the community team who they have talked to many times before? Why go to someone far less likely to be well versed in the nuances of EVE?
Because the community team is most certainly NOT the correct counterpart in getting formal approval for such an agreement.
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1856
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:14:00 -
[892] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:I'm sure their is fault on both sides to some extent. I think we can all agree upon that. But what I encourage people to think about is, Just to play devils advocat for a moment. What if Somer is guilty and maliciously thought she had a loophole to make money and sell isk or whatever. has that personally affected you? Would her doing RMT out weigh the good SomerBlink has done for the community and players? If it doesn't out weigh the good how do you punish? Because realistically if you ban somer a lot of parties get punished by proxy. Is that nessesarily fair? No. But it's the reality of the situation. Assuming you have rules in place for a reason, your only options are to either change them or enforce them.
Besides, as has been noted EVE gambling is a very attractive business with trivial barriers of entry, anybody can take Somer's place. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Doris Dents
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
394
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:14:00 -
[893] - Quote
Since goons have done way more for EVE than Somer ever has, providing content for nearly a decade that made international press a bunch of times, can we get the ban immunity that Somer apparently enjoys? I'd really like to RMT some of my ill gotten gains you see and maybe just get told to stop once people get really pissed off about it. I'm not even asking for especial ships and breathless Dev endorsements here so I think it's quite a modest request really. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:15:00 -
[894] - Quote
Baneken wrote:So to sum it up Somer tried to play CCP sales rep, got burned for it and closed the business while giving back some of those hard scammed ISK for his cows ?
Anything I missed when I skimmed the last 20 pages ?
Did you catch Abrazzar's line about the silent majority? If you got that one, I think you're good. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1856
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:16:00 -
[895] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I think this is most obvious and both sides - CCP and Somer - should have avoided leaving this open. Don't forget a small detail: CCP can ban Somer, while Somer can't ban CCP.
So it's actually Somer that should have avoided leaving that open. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2379
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:16:00 -
[896] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:I have to disagree with this. RMT is not just defined by making a profit, it's the trade of any in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. Trading the services of a Jita alt for the use of their referral would still constitute RMT. I'm assuming that Somer was truthful when he said this: Proposal wrote:This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented. Indicating that CCP is OK with providing services as affiliate link rewards. Whether that's good policy or not, I'm not sure. You have a point there, I assumed that line was a bit of marketing wordsmithing. I'm not aware of any new policy or guidelines regarding affiliate links, do you happen to know what that's in reference to? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10993
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:16:00 -
[897] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:I didn't miss that line about "no extra ISK". And if you take this one sentence out of the context of the proposal I would agree that it sounds like saying one thing but doing another. But this line isn't stand alone. And if you reread the proposal you should realize that it means "no extra ISK in addition to the price paid for the PLEX".
The problem with the proposal is that it doesn't state how the price for PLEX is set. It just says that Somer will give the "best price anywhere in EVE". With this wording Somer could offer 10 Bn per PLEX and still would be within the boundaries of the proposal. Maybe it's just me, but I think this is most obvious and both sides - CCP and Somer - should have avoided leaving this open.
Exactly, the proposal is so full of traps and clever wording that a careful reading by somebody familiar with the way EVE works would have inevitably led to it being binned. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Tao Dolcino
Jolly Jumpers Squad
339
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:18:00 -
[898] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:
I'm sure their is fault on both sides to some extent. I think we can all agree upon that. But what I encourage people to think about is, Just to play devils advocat for a moment. What if Somer is guilty and maliciously thought she had a loophole to make money and sell isk or whatever. has that personally affected you? Would her doing RMT out weigh the good SomerBlink has done for the community and players? If it doesn't out weigh the good how do you punish? Because realistically if you ban somer a lot of parties get punished by proxy. Is that nessesarily fair? No. But it's the reality of the situation.
So we should never fight the mafias, just because they buy people ? Is buying people doing something good for the community ? Should we close our eyes on forbidden activities just because we get some crumbles of it ? What about our honor, our dignity ? Favoritism is good - CCP 2013 |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:19:00 -
[899] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:I just think banning somer having blink be dead does more harm to more people than good. Yes somer closed blink not CCP I get that but the two are related obviously.
Establishing the consistent precedent that the rules will not be enforced evenly and without preferential treatment does far more harm than anything that might come from Blink's closure. If you can't trust CCP to enforce the rules about RMT fairly, across the board, then you can't trust them about any other rules, either. At that point, there's no reason to believe them when they deny allegations of giving PL free titans, of nerfing the damage and tank on ships flown by any account that isn't using multi-character skill training, or anything else.
The rules have to be fairly enforced, or the game itself is suspect. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5316
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:19:00 -
[900] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:I didn't miss that line about "no extra ISK". And if you take this one sentence out of the context of the proposal I would agree that it sounds like saying one thing but doing another. But this line isn't stand alone. And if you reread the proposal you should realize that it means "no extra ISK in addition to the price paid for the PLEX".
Proposal wrote:Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.
Here is the entire context around that sentence. It cannot reasonably be construed to mean that.
Quote:Because the community team is most certainly NOT the correct counterpart in getting formal approval for such an agreement.
Right. Legal is. So why make someone far less likely to be well versed in the nuances of EVE than the Community team your point person?
Derrick Miles wrote:You have a point there, I assumed that line was a bit of marketing wordsmithing. I'm not aware of any new policy or guidelines regarding affiliate links, do you happen to know what that's in reference to?
CCP changed their guidelines in re affiliate links to ban providing ISK rewards for Plex purchases last year. What they changed them to, I don't know. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
|
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
125
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:20:00 -
[901] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:What about ... our dignity ? you play eve, I think that ship may have sailed Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
73
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:21:00 -
[902] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Thatt Guy wrote:So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.
This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.
To Somer: Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit. I can't blame him for leaving.. You can argue both sides to if he crossed that vague line CCP has about when is it RMT and when isn't it.. But the simple fact is, Somer has been screwed by CCP 3 times now. First time was the first "RMT" deal, that he did for YEARS, no complaints, then some outcry and CCP shuts it down. It's not like CCP never knew what he was doing, some covert act, he was a site advertised by CCP several times.. suddenly it was wrong. Second time was the drama about the Scorps, and the gifts for the big celebration.. Somer didn't DO anything. Even if they asked for the stuff, which they didn't (at least not the Scorps) CCP was the one that gave it all out. Third was this.. Was Somers proposal fake or not.. I donno.. But he asked them if it needed to go through legal, where you'd expect them to ask common sense questions like HOW are you going to set the PRICE.. Highsec Average? Jita? Monthly Average? HOW.. Basic questions. No CCP just said yes. It's fine.. and didn't even pass it by Legal. I doubt they even read the document. I can't blame him for not wanting to deal with CCP anymore. If CCP could pull their heads out of their asses and become consistent, with some common sense questions and procedures for their actions, all of these events (and many, many others with other communities and sites) could all have been avoided.
Is Somer sponsoring your posts by any chance?
Just asking.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:23:00 -
[903] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I think this is most obvious and both sides - CCP and Somer - should have avoided leaving this open.
Unless, of course, Somer wanted it open so as to justify the RMT framework. |
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
145
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:24:00 -
[904] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys,
In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.
While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.
WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM.
This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM.
Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.
Note : Quote has been edited.
CCP, just a friendly reminder to do, (the right), something about Somer's RMT activity. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11211
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:32:00 -
[905] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:This thread is the sole reason USA needs military vehicles for their police forces. The fact that you say this, especially in the context of current events which you surely know about unless you live under a rock, is absolutely appalling. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11211
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:34:00 -
[906] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Abrazzer's post, maybe. It was a damn good one, huh? It made Mittens log into the forum. I'd say it was. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
298
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:36:00 -
[907] - Quote
Also should be noted that casino in any form is a scam to begin with, it's just the way that you have to run a casino to make any money out if. Same goes for most things that are sold to us be it cars or movie tickets for the latest block busters, heck selling anything for a good profit is a scam once you spin it enough.
But all of the above have rules and those rules have to be followed or you get busted for doing so.
My initial stance which still stands to this issue (and gambling in general not just for EVE) however is that no betting or gambling should be allowed (in EVE or otherwise) but that's because my mother happens to be a gambling addict in RL and still visit her therapy group on regular basis. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10995
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:40:00 -
[908] - Quote
Baneken wrote:My initial stance which still stands to this issue (and gambling in general not just for EVE) however is that no betting or gambling should be allowed (in EVE or otherwise) but that's because my mother happens to be a gambling addict in RL and still visit her therapy group on regular basis.
This is a ridiculous rule to even try to enforce. How is CCP going to stop two people from agreeing to give each other ISK if one team or another wins a football match? It's not even the point of this thread. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
casperlolz
TheWhiteFlame
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:40:00 -
[909] - Quote
I want to say this yes I agree both sides are right, but why now, I remember a news post from CCP themselves in 2012 and did some research and found it, I will place a link on the bottom. Now I agree that They could be making real money and that can be bad, but on the other side they are following the terms buy selling time codes which was allowed by CCP. A story was told in the fanfest of 2013 about the CEO himself playing eve. He joined a miner corp and their goal was to get into battle ships. Now in eve you are going to be a pawn or a ceo of a marketing empire, To me I feel even scamming is a skill of its own, you have to find ways to make a player misread your contracts. Now we have gambling (Somer Blink) that gives a far chances for players to make profit, now yes Blink will always make profit on every bid but thats the point, players risk their ISK since day one of the game. There is a saying in eve saying never fly what you cant afford, at any point a player can steal everything, to a ship worked for months on or to a cargo ship holding 2,000 dollars worth of plex. so I ask CCP to look this over carefuly, is this really what they want to do or do they want to learn from this and better build the game. well thanks for every player or CCP that reads this I ask everyone to read every post on this form like I did no matter what side. Thank you
on bottom of the Spotlight post (thought this needed to be said before the link) We will close this Spotlight with SomersetGÇÖs words about the EVE Community:
A community that, at its core, is comprised of a bunch of people who really love taking the sandbox building blocks, and making something larger than themselves. That is EVE for me. And that is what keeps me coming back long after missions and mining grow old.
2012 COMMUNITY SPOTLIGHT - SOMER BLINK- Link http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-somer-blink/
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
122
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:43:00 -
[910] - Quote
casperlolz wrote:I want to say this yes I agree both sides are right, but why now, I remember a news post from CCP themselves in 2012
Why now? Because Blink got caught RMTing a year after that news post (ie: last year) and got told to knock it off. Now they've been caught again. That's 'why now'. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11212
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:43:00 -
[911] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Also should be noted that casino in any form is a scam to begin with, it's just the way that you have to run a casino to make any money out if. Same goes for most things that are sold to us be it cars or movie tickets for the latest block busters, heck selling anything for a good profit is a scam once you spin it enough.
But all of the above have rules and those rules have to be followed or you get busted for doing so.
My initial stance which still stands to this issue (and gambling in general not just for EVE) however is that no betting or gambling should be allowed (in EVE or otherwise) but that's because my mother happens to be a gambling addict in RL and still visit her therapy group on regular basis. This doesn't really have anything to do with the thread.
Also taking the position that anything which is addictive should be banned (in real life or elsewhere) is absurd. Prohibitions of such behaviors are unenforceable, expensive, counterproductive, and damaging. The Prohibition in the United States proved that, and our current form of it (the War on Drugs) continues to drive the point home. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
298
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:44:00 -
[912] - Quote
Andski wrote:Baneken wrote:My initial stance which still stands to this issue (and gambling in general not just for EVE) however is that no betting or gambling should be allowed (in EVE or otherwise) but that's because my mother happens to be a gambling addict in RL and still visit her therapy group on regular basis. This is a ridiculous rule to even try to enforce. How is CCP going to stop two people from agreeing to give each other ISK if one team or another wins a football match? It's not even the point of this thread.
Yes, I know quite well it cannot be enforced, shouldn't stop me from wishing it was true, now doesn't it ? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10997
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:46:00 -
[913] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Yes, I know quite well it cannot be enforced, shouldn't stop me from wishing it was true, now doesn't it ?
I wish I had wings and could soar over the rest of the plebs but that's not going to happen so it's pointless to bring up Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
casperlolz
TheWhiteFlame
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:46:00 -
[914] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:casperlolz wrote:I want to say this yes I agree both sides are right, but why now, I remember a news post from CCP themselves in 2012
Why now? Because Blink got caught RMTing a year after that news post (ie: last year) and got told to knock it off. Now they've been caught again. That's 'why now'.
Yeah but eve let that happen with Game Time Codes |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
456
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:47:00 -
[915] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys,
WeGÇÖre aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down.
WeGÇÖre also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and itGÇÖs very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors.
In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.
They broke the rules scammed CCP and then RMT for the second time so punish them. Blink shutting them self down does not stop them from a reboot when this blows over. That is wrong if you RMT its a instant ban. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2495
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:56:00 -
[916] - Quote
I like the fact that SOMERblink tried to get around any problems by the use of 'clever' wording.
Did they get a lawyer to devise the wording for them?
Mittens perhaps?
The above is a joke by the way. This is not a signature. |
cpu939
Eternal Darkness. Get Off My Lawn
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:57:00 -
[917] - Quote
RMT'er should be banned, the isk removed and so on from all parties.
that said this is a hard one for ccp to deal with selling plex is allowed, with that said people should have looked at this more closely.
years go people got banned and isk removed for buying isk when jita was full of posters claiming that there isk selling site was backed by ccp. i'm not sure how i would deal with it but it need to be fair to all players even those who where banned before cos someone said it was ccp backed and it wasn't that is what looks like has happened here.
the isk amount i would take back wouldn't be the full amount it would be the extra, like i said you can sell a plex for isk.
i don't fancy being a ccp dev or gm right now. |
Guillane Itaril
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
95
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:58:00 -
[918] - Quote
I'm the one who started this investigation, with this post on reddit.com/r/eve 2 days ago.
Somerset Mahms continuous attempts to RMT was not the problem GÇô His business has earned over a hundred thousand dollars from EVE thus far, of course he wants to continue.
The problem was CCPGÇÖs inability to fairly deal with this attitude, being extremely lenient with Somerset Mahm's RMT business, with no repercussions whatsoever thus far.
CCP treating important, rich players differently than 'the little guy' is what made me rage and post on reddit. They did not resolve Somer's last RMT scheme (the one shut down in October 2013) and just hoped for it to quietly go away. I didn't want that to happen this time. Let's see what will result in this time's investigation, I'm confident CCP has changed during the last year, evident by CCP Falcons posting.
Somer's ragequit and shutdown of Blink shows, that he was only in it for the money and not for the 'community' - CCP most likely told him that RMT will never be allowed again, so he shut it down.
I'm pretty happy on how this turned out. The butterfly effect is real One post by a small player made the CSM become active. Devs got involved and alarmclocked for meetings. The executive producer herself got involved. In the end Somer ragequit and I can honestly say, that my actions had an impact on all of EVE.
In what other game would that be possible? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
124
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:58:00 -
[919] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I like the fact that SOMERblink tried to get around any problems by the use of 'clever' wording.
Did they get a lawyer to devise the wording for them?
Mittens perhaps?
The above is a joke by the way.
I didn't see any tildes in the proposal. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:01:00 -
[920] - Quote
I'd say SOMER had a fairly good idea to try and circumvent the RMT rule. There really is no way to determine if they were actually doing it on CCP's end though. It is a 2 step process: 1) create demand for GTC's by offering highest isk for the PLEX redeemed from GTC's. 2) negotiate a kickback with a GTC seller and advertise that seller. The SOMER proposal clearly states they will buy the PLEX resulting from GTC sales with ANY affiliate but we can safely assume that the bulk of those sales will be from the linked GTC seller as it would take the least effort to locate. Everything on CCP's side of the take will look above board and they could never know different. SOMERS side of the table and the deals they negotiate with the GTC affiliate are where the info we need is located and we will never see that. |
|
Beta Maoye
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:06:00 -
[921] - Quote
I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business. |
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:08:00 -
[922] - Quote
Question to CCP Falcon:
Given CCP's usual punitive actions when RMT accounts and their clients are discovered, will the clients of Somer that partook of this offer also face the usual actions for being a party to RMT transactions?
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11214
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:09:00 -
[923] - Quote
"This medic has saved hundreds of lives. We should definitely overlook the fact that he beats his wife." Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
298
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:10:00 -
[924] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:I'd say SOMER had a fairly good idea to try and circumvent the RMT rule. There really is no way to determine if they were actually doing it on CCP's end though. It is a 2 step process: 1) create demand for GTC's by offering highest isk for the PLEX redeemed from GTC's. 2) negotiate a kickback with a GTC seller and advertise that seller. The SOMER proposal clearly states they will buy the PLEX resulting from GTC sales with ANY affiliate but we can safely assume that the bulk of those sales will be from the linked GTC seller as it would take the least effort to locate. Everything on CCP's side of the table will look above board and they could never know different. SOMERS side of the table and the deals they negotiate with the GTC affiliate are where the info we need is located to determine if it was RMT and we will never see that.
Doesn't even need to be a third seller Somer could had put up a shop by him self for selling GTC's, advertising it as someone else's company and raked in the cash and none the wiser. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20243
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:13:00 -
[925] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:I haven't used Somer Blink. The fist time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business. He's getting hammered because he attempted to circumvent the rules regarding the monetisation of CCPs intellectual property.
His charitable donations do not excuse that, just as they didn't excuse Bernie Madhoff when he got clobbered for running a huge Ponzi and ripping people off for their pensions. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Ynef
Tesseract Industries
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:14:00 -
[926] - Quote
So after Somer Blink done with the reinbursment, they shall get the well deserved permanent ban for RMT and the reputation damage they done to CCP right?
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20243
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:16:00 -
[927] - Quote
Ynef wrote:So after Somer Blink done with the reinbursment, they shall get the well deserved permanent ban for RMT and the reputation damage they done to CCP right?
Or some limited edition ships....
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
124
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:17:00 -
[928] - Quote
Ynef wrote:So after Somer Blink done with the reinbursment, they shall get the well deserved permanent ban for RMT and the reputation damage they done to CCP right?
Last I checked, reputation damaging isn't a bannable offense. But let's hope the first bit holds, hey? |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2393
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:17:00 -
[929] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:"This medic has saved hundreds of lives. We should definitely overlook the fact that he beats his wife."
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:He's getting hammered because he attempted to circumvent the rules regarding the monetisation of CCPs intellectual property.
His charitable donations do not excuse that, just as they didn't excuse Bernie Madhoff when he got clobbered for running a huge Ponzi and ripping people off for their pensions. While RMT is bad, I'm not sure it rates on the scale of wife-beating and stealing pensions. |
cpu939
Eternal Darkness. Get Off My Lawn
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:18:00 -
[930] - Quote
Ynef wrote:So after Somer Blink done with the reinbursment, they shall get the well deserved permanent ban for RMT and the reputation damage they done to CCP right?
they should ban before the reimbursement, like they do to all rmt'er, that way its less work to go over. like i said ban the buyer and the sellers |
|
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
127
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:23:00 -
[931] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business. It's more likely that the reason they get hammered is that THEY ARE BLATANTLY IMPLEMENTING A SCHEME WHERE THEY OFFER INCENTIVES LINKED TO BUYING GTCS AFTER GETTING TOLD LESS THAN A YEAR AGO THAT THEY CAN'T OFFER INCENTIVES LINKED TO BUYING GTCS Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:23:00 -
[932] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Cryo Kool wrote:I'd say SOMER had a fairly good idea to try and circumvent the RMT rule. There really is no way to determine if they were actually doing it on CCP's end though. It is a 2 step process: 1) create demand for GTC's by offering highest isk for the PLEX redeemed from GTC's. 2) negotiate a kickback with a GTC seller and advertise that seller. The SOMER proposal clearly states they will buy the PLEX resulting from GTC sales with ANY affiliate but we can safely assume that the bulk of those sales will be from the linked GTC seller as it would take the least effort to locate. Everything on CCP's side of the table will look above board and they could never know different. SOMERS side of the table and the deals they negotiate with the GTC affiliate are where the info we need is located to determine if it was RMT and we will never see that. Doesn't even need to be a third seller Somer could had put up a shop by him self for selling GTC's, advertising it as someone else's company and raked in the cash and none the wiser.
Indeed; that would be the most profitable method. Creating your own affiliate company and pocketing 100% of the sales. Also better for ensuring that there are less people who could expose the actual RMT intent of the two companies relationship. |
|
CCP Falcon
8191
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:24:00 -
[933] - Quote
Good morning everyone
A few more comments and answers... hopefully we'll have closure on this within the next 48 hours.
Rroff wrote:Given the lengths some have gone to to stir up anti-blink sentiment to say there has been no witch hunt at all is hardly accurate.
There's no witch hunt here on our part. If people stay within the game rules, then we have no problem. If they don't, they get into trouble.
Andski wrote:If you're trying to figure out the "motive" you'll only be sorely disappointed. EVE players don't like it when another player presumes to be above the rules. The outrage was entirely justified IMO.
I agree completely, and I can clearly see why the community is angry.
Andski wrote:Ohkewl wrote:huh, and The Mittani isnt?? Didnt he quit his RL job so he could focus more on his RMT empire? He lives from his RMT, while paying his employees with ISK. Submit your evidence to [email protected]
This.
KaRa DaVuT wrote:
isnt there any mechanism in CCP to check their dealings and third party service providers to see that If they are keeping their part of the promise? Because What somer did like you said did not meet the original proposition. THen why CCP ever check them ?
Right now, we work on a case by case basis with each partner and make sure they're sticking to what's agreed.
Chribba wrote:So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done...
I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this.
/c
I think you know me better than to assume that this won't be thoroughly investigated and closed out properly. It just takes time because of the sheer size and scope of the transactions that have taken place.
Andski wrote:It'd be pretty stupid for CCP to punish people who played on that site, given CCP's past tacit endorsements of SOMERblink. But if they conclude that Somerset Mahm and his staff were clearly looking to engage in ISK selling, I do hope they are given the same punishment as any other player who engages in such activity.
We have no intention of pursuing players who've legitimately used SOMER Blink's services in good faith. I would never advocate that.
Fracoix wrote:Enjoy the hit to PLEX sales......
Sorry to disappoint you, but I value my own integrity, the trust of the community and the rebuilding of bridges and trust between CCP and our players more than I value the bottom line at the end of the month.
Our community is the blood that courses through the veins of EVE, without it we'd be screwed. I'll take a healthy, trusting community over a fatter bottom line at the end of the month any time.
Andski wrote: CCP loves making an example out of highly visible players to demonstrate that nobody is above the rules.
To be fair, we don't enjoy reprimanding anyone for breach of the rules, but it has to be done to protect the integrity of the game when our policies are breached. That's just how it is.
For what it's worth, I personally LOVE the concept of SOMER Blink. I played for a while before I came to CCP and made a healthy profit out of it. However, if it's not operating within the rules we lay out, then something has to be done.
KaRa DaVuT wrote:This is not mob justice.
This is a COMMUNITY that tries to solve the problem with free thinking. If you cant deal with other people's opinions then I suggest you to read somewhere else.
I agree completely.
Andski wrote:Also, it's not mob justice. CCP leaves a thread open for angry posters to be angry in and reduce moderator workload while the grownups at CCP talk. I doubt a single post in this thread was even considered in those discussions.
To be fair, I've been paying a lot of attention to what's been said in this thread, but it can be difficult at times to filter the genuine concern and comments from the angry pitchfork waving. That's my job, though
Rob Kashuken wrote:Question to CCP Falcon:
Given CCP's usual punitive actions when RMT accounts and their clients are discovered, will the clients of Somer that partook of this offer also face the usual actions for being a party to RMT transactions?
Once our investigation is complete, if there is evidence of any rule breaking activity, SOMER Blink will be treat the same as any other individual or organization in game.
I'm meeting again today within CCP, and will be in touch with the CSM again once we have further developments.
Thanks for the patience guys
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2395
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:27:00 -
[934] - Quote
Thanks for the update. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:27:00 -
[935] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:I'd say SOMER had a fairly good idea to try and circumvent the RMT rule. There really is no way to determine if they were actually doing it on CCP's end though. It is a 2 step process: 1) create demand for GTC's by offering highest isk for the PLEX redeemed from GTC's. 2) negotiate a kickback with a GTC seller and advertise that seller. The SOMER proposal clearly states they will buy the PLEX resulting from GTC sales with ANY affiliate but we can safely assume that the bulk of those sales will be from the linked GTC seller as it would take the least effort to locate. Everything on CCP's side of the table will look above board and they could never know different. SOMERS side of the table and the deals they negotiate with the GTC affiliate are where the info we need is located to determine if it was RMT and we will never see that.
PS. This is how pachinko parlors in Japan circumvent the gambling laws. You gamble for these "prizes" and then walk around the corner to a shop that buys said prizes. The connection between that shop and the gambling establishment is where the related info can be found.
And that connection is Marcus Eikenberry's business activities in de current form of Markee Dragon. Focusing on Somer isn't even half the story. Keep in mind that Somer switched to Markee Dragon following the previous upheavals which revolved around margin wars between Shattered Crystal and Markee Dragon with the latter winning the race primarily because CCP had already granted an air of legitimate / preferred status. 30D trials? Markee Dragon. Then Markee got Somer, both got Community Spotlights, heralded as awesome, the rest is history.
In return Markee figured out quite well that if you want a market such as EVE, you need to leave the dark side (unlike what Darius was ranting on about, it's a choice) but you can't really do that so you must have a stamp of "legit". That's what Markee was buying with Somer and massaging CCP's perception of things.
CCP got gamed, by someone with the clear and long established intent to game those who make games. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1857
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:29:00 -
[936] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:An excellent post Thank you for doing your job so well, sir. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4059
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:35:00 -
[937] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:An excellent post Time taken to thoroughly read and address player concern noted and appreciate, o7 falcon. =][= |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3684
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:35:00 -
[938] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:I'm meeting again today within CCP, and will be in touch with the CSM again once we have further developments. Thanks for the patience guys
Oh god, more meetings... Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4059
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:36:00 -
[939] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:An excellent post Time taken to thoroughly read and address player concern noted and appreciate, o7 falcon. =][= |
casperlolz
TheWhiteFlame
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:36:00 -
[940] - Quote
I know alot of people are upset with both sides but I will say Even though i'm sided with Blink i'm also sided with CCP, I brag all the time to my friends on how CCP listens to players, so for the people rageing about Blink, please sit down and talk like normal people. |
|
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:40:00 -
[941] - Quote
111010110 wrote: CCP got gamed, by someone with the clear and long established intent to game those who make games.
In a nutshell this is exactly what happened. Finding enough evidence to get a conviction for it will be next to impossible though. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10999
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:44:00 -
[942] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:While RMT is bad, I'm not sure it rates on the scale of wife-beating and stealing pensions.
It's not as bad as those things, but donating any amount of PLEX to PLEX for GOOD doesn't put you above the rules. As Stannis of the House Baratheon the First of His Name, the One True King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm says, a good act does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:46:00 -
[943] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:111010110 wrote: CCP got gamed, by someone with the clear and long established intent to game those who make games.
In a nutshell this is exactly what happened. Finding enough evidence to get a conviction for it will be next to impossible though.
Hardly. Besides, there is such a thing as intent. In that regard Somer has left quite a trail. Markee however is a different beast alltogether.
Let's be honest though, when CCP declared war on RMT, there were plenty things that were grey during those days. Turns out it never pays to enable those who make a living out of gaming you for legitimisation. It's a harsh lesson for CCP.
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3445
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:46:00 -
[944] - Quote
Rob Kashuken wrote:Question to CCP Falcon:
Given CCP's usual punitive actions when RMT accounts and their clients are discovered, will the clients of Somer that partook of this offer also face the usual actions for being a party to RMT transactions?
A clear distinction should be made between intentionally participating in RMT buying, and unknowingly participating in RMT buying.
Lenience should be shown in the latter case. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:47:00 -
[945] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business.
I applaud Somer for being charitable with their considerable space monies.
However they got hammered because although they do a lot to generate revenue and content for CCP they are repeatedly crossing the line when it comes to RMT.
And to all of you saying: well why shouldn't he make money from it?
A: He can, but not from the ISK he has gained. ISK conversion to USD is a no-no as spelled out already many times in this thread.
And why do we care?
A: Because the rest of us can not even begin to do what he is doing. Consider how alliances already have affiliate links for buying PLEX so that when a member buys PLEX with that link they generate revenue for their alliance. The reason Mittani decided, perhaps, to make such a song and dance about this story so early is because it affects his alliance. But it affects other alliances too and I support him for speaking up along with the rest of us. Why would an alliance member buy PLEX from anyone other than SomerDragon if they would get less ISK for their PLEX by doing so? Most wouldn't, because Somer is making a "loss" (in ISK) on the PLEX sales in order to make a gain in USD. If other alliances, players, or game groups tried to follow suit (and some did when we had version one of this debacle in 2013) CCP was very very quick to shut them down immediately.
TLDR: If CCP let SomerDragon have their way, then we have a reboot of the T20 Scandal incoming (where an EVE employee used game mechanics to help out a certain group of players).
no RMT means no RMT, no matter how intricate or obfuscated you make the scheme. And if RMT is OKfor Somer, it needs to be OK for the rest of us.
-- Fang
|
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:49:00 -
[946] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:Finding enough evidence to get a conviction for it will be next to impossible though. This isn't a criminal trial. You don't have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt here. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
KIllerJon
Snuff Box
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:50:00 -
[947] - Quote
Andski wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:While RMT is bad, I'm not sure it rates on the scale of wife-beating and stealing pensions. It's not as bad as those things, but donating any amount of PLEX to PLEX for GOOD doesn't put you above the rules. As Stannis of the House Baratheon the First of His Name, the One True King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm says, a good act does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good.
You missed Azor Ahai reborn |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:50:00 -
[948] - Quote
111010110 wrote:Cryo Kool wrote:111010110 wrote: CCP got gamed, by someone with the clear and long established intent to game those who make games.
In a nutshell this is exactly what happened. Finding enough evidence to get a conviction for it will be next to impossible though. Hardly. Besides, there is such a thing as intent. In that regard Somer has left quite a trail. Markee however is a different beast alltogether. Let's be honest though, when CCP declared war on RMT, there were plenty things that were grey during those days. Turns out it never pays to enable those who make a living out of gaming you for legitimisation. It's a harsh lesson for CCP. Indeed. My initial questions after reading the proposal was, what are they going to use this potentially unlimited supply of plex for and why are they willing to pay an unspecified amount over market to ensure they receive them. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:53:00 -
[949] - Quote
Belinda HwaFang wrote:Beta Maoye wrote:I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business. I applaud Somer for being charitable with their considerable space monies. However they got hammered because although they do a lot to generate revenue and content for CCP they are repeatedly crossing the line when it comes to RMT. And to all of you saying: well why shouldn't he make money from it? A: He can, but not from the ISK he has gained. ISK conversion to USD is a no-no as spelled out already many times in this thread. And why do we care? A: Because the rest of us can not even begin to do what he is doing. Consider how alliances already have affiliate links for buying PLEX so that when a member buys PLEX with that link they generate revenue for their alliance. The reason Mittani decided, perhaps, to make such a song and dance about this story so early is because it affects his alliance. But it affects other alliances too and I support him for speaking up along with the rest of us. Why would an alliance member buy PLEX from anyone other than SomerDragon if they would get less ISK for their PLEX by doing so? Most wouldn't, because Somer is making a "loss" (in ISK) on the PLEX sales in order to make a gain in USD. If other alliances, players, or game groups tried to follow suit (and some did when we had version one of this debacle in 2013) CCP was very very quick to shut them down immediately. TLDR: If CCP let SomerDragon have their way, then we have a reboot of the T20 Scandal incoming (where an EVE employee used game mechanics to help out a certain group of players). no RMT means no RMT, no matter how intricate or obfuscated you make the scheme. And if RMT is OKfor Somer, it needs to be OK for the rest of us. -- Fang
Point is, all that entertainment and grand fun was nothing but a required mechanism for Markee to get that stamp of "legit" and take the next step (after the Margin Wars with other resellers), dominate his EVE market by means of legit + preferred supplier by choice. That's why Markee paired up with Somer. If Somer is even real (beyond some minion at 8$ an hour). Wouldn't be a first time that Markee puts some fake ID/team together like with that WoW-bot affair.
Meanwhile, Somer takes the hit, distracting nicely from both scope and intent for someone else's business plan ... I realise it's seriously sour for CCP no matter how you look at it, but this is what happens when you let such a business focus get a single foot in the door. It's not personal for them, it's business, it's predictable - but CCP missed it. Because awesome was done.
|
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4386
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:54:00 -
[950] - Quote
There is little doubt in my mind that the reimbursement process will be used to launder ISK and assets from threatened accounts to save characters. I do no envy those GMs tasked with unravelling this clew of transactions. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
|
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:55:00 -
[951] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:I'm meeting again today within CCP, and will be in touch with the CSM again once we have further developments. Thanks for the patience guys Oh god, more meetings...
At this rate, 'meeting' is going to turn into my new trigger word.
|
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:55:00 -
[952] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Cryo Kool wrote:Finding enough evidence to get a conviction for it will be next to impossible though. This isn't a criminal trial. You don't have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt here. There needs to be some minimum evidence standard or players will have the impression there is no due process involved in permanently banning their account. |
Artemis Bowden
Urban Decay.
34
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:58:00 -
[953] - Quote
How long before we find out the logs show nothing?
I joke but someone had to say it :P
I think CCP Falcon is amazing and done a fantastic job for the community on this, hope the rest of CCP recognises that work and remembers this in future!
Blink will probably be missed but all good things come to an end at some point - just a shame if it does end on this its a sad legacy to leave. |
Loki O'Grady
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
23
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:00:00 -
[954] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote: Indeed. My initial questions after reading the proposal was, what are they going to use this potentially unlimited supply of plex for and why are they willing to pay an unspecified amount over market to ensure they receive them.
The way plex prices are going up and up, all he'd need to do is sit on them for a few weeks before selling them for more than he paid. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2499
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:01:00 -
[955] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote: Every player who took a chance on EVE because of the battles that made mainstream media, you can attribute to us (and the people we fought against).
I might have my history wrong ... but I came after MC turned on BoB (which as far as I remember didn't involve goons -- although grr goons for disbanding BoB. Well played, though).
Also, Ubiqua Seraph One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:03:00 -
[956] - Quote
I have enjoyed the EVE/Somer Blink gaming for years. I have developed a lot of friends and appreciation for the people in the EVE chat that Somer Blink had running as well. I feel like the community of EVE has suffered a great loss due to the "Not being very clear", with everything involved here. I will miss the chat, I will miss the enjoyment of Blinking, and most of all I miss the EVE that was. CCP and the folks that have pushed new changes over and over and over again seem to be missing the mark. For me the changes are just killing the enjoyment of the game I enjoyed very much in the past. I guess all things must come to an end eventually. I wish Somer the best in all future endeavors and want to take the opportunity to say "Thank You Somer Blink". I am sorry to see the comments condemning anyone before the proofs are put forth. I think there are a good many folks that have put the accusations ahead of the proof here. Valid or not... The endorsements have been very evident in the past and; I will greatly miss the folks and friends that made Somer Blink a large part of my in game enjoyment. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
201
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:03:00 -
[957] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Cryo Kool wrote:Finding enough evidence to get a conviction for it will be next to impossible though. This isn't a criminal trial. You don't have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt here. I'd think you'd expect some modicum of respect if your accounts were under investigation for, say, stumbling on an exploit. Just saying, there has to be some standard applied to the way bans are handed out.
Queue "something something rmt != exploit" if you say this you're missing my point and telling me something I already know. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:04:00 -
[958] - Quote
Loki O'Grady wrote:Cryo Kool wrote: Indeed. My initial questions after reading the proposal was, what are they going to use this potentially unlimited supply of plex for and why are they willing to pay an unspecified amount over market to ensure they receive them.
The way plex prices are going up and up, all he'd need to do is sit on them for a few weeks before selling them for more than he paid. I doubt generating more isk was his primary concern; the gambling alone generated more than he could spend. Converting it to real money would be the only motivation I could think of. |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:04:00 -
[959] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:There needs to be some minimum evidence standard or players will have the impression there is no due process involved in permanently banning their account. But here's the thing: due process is not necessary anyway. CCP can ban you anyway for saying your favorite food is raspberry yogurt.
Now I'm not saying it isn't a good idea to look impartial to your players, but in the end you (and me, and pretty much everyone posting in this thread) aren't involved, so, in accordance with their policies, I don't expect CCP to publicly post evidence or the outcome of the investigation anyway. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:06:00 -
[960] - Quote
Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c
While I can't speak for CCP, the CSM has no desire to see the ball dropped on this either. More information will be forthcoming, no doubt after we have another string of meetings, and suffice it to say that I'm broadly positive as to how this matter is being handled on CCP's end. They're giving this a lot of thought, looking at it from all the angles, and are making a good faith effort to do right by the community. In a situation this large and complicated, that will take some time.
|
|
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:09:00 -
[961] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I'd think you'd expect some modicum of respect if your accounts were under investigation for, say, stumbling on an exploit. Just saying, there has to be some standard applied to the way bans are handed out. Sure, and I'm not saying CCP should ban people willy-nilly, or just because there's angry people posting on the forums. But nothing requires CCP to have an air-tight case. If they decide that it's more likely that Somer intentionally tried to deceive them, that's a perfectly fine reason to take action. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:10:00 -
[962] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c While I can't speak for CCP, the CSM has no desire to see the ball dropped on this either. More information will be forthcoming, no doubt after we have another string of meetings, and suffice it to say that I'm broadly positive as to how this matter is being handled on CCP's end. They're giving this a lot of thought, looking at it from all the angles, and are making a good faith effort to do right by the community. In a situation this large and complicated, that will take some time.
So, is the CSM taking the Somer angle only, or are folks wondering about the role of Markee and the influence achieved on "his" EVE market since the Margin Wars?
|
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:12:00 -
[963] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I'd think you'd expect some modicum of respect if your accounts were under investigation for, say, stumbling on an exploit. Just saying, there has to be some standard applied to the way bans are handed out. Sure, and I'm not saying CCP should ban people willy-nilly, or just because there's angry people posting on the forums. But nothing requires CCP to have an air-tight case. If they decide that it's more likely that Somer intentionally tried to deceive them, that's a perfectly fine reason to take action. Maybe my wording distracted from my intent. I was implying that CCP will have trouble finding enough evidence to warrant a ban as all the relevant info regarding this being RMT is between SOMER and the GTC affiliate. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
299
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:13:00 -
[964] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:I'm meeting again today within CCP, and will be in touch with the CSM again once we have further developments. Thanks for the patience guys Oh god, more meetings...
Why do you think I voted you guys in the first place ? |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:14:00 -
[965] - Quote
111010110 wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c While I can't speak for CCP, the CSM has no desire to see the ball dropped on this either. More information will be forthcoming, no doubt after we have another string of meetings, and suffice it to say that I'm broadly positive as to how this matter is being handled on CCP's end. They're giving this a lot of thought, looking at it from all the angles, and are making a good faith effort to do right by the community. In a situation this large and complicated, that will take some time. So, is the CSM taking the Somer angle only, or are folks wondering about the role of Markee and the influence achieved on "his" EVE market since the Margin Wars? Excellent question. +1 |
Vena Saris
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:15:00 -
[966] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys,
WeGÇÖre aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down.
Glad to see you guys aren't being bullied.
|
L'amour Sauvage
Underworld Group
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:17:00 -
[967] - Quote
Due to eye cancer, I have not read the previous posts. After finally re-sub'ing earlier tonight, I loaded to see "This channel is closed now." I'm from Kentucky, live on a farm and try to live RL and gaming by honour and integrity. I'm really hoping all this gets worked out. I tend to ramble, but there are a couple points embedded.
I've won enough isk to make most in this game puke. I've been a Blinker since close to the beginning. In the beginning was a lot of drunk luck. As with anything of random ordered chaos, I got pretty good noticing the patterns. A lot of players played the odds, I played the beauty. I even tried to convince Somer on how to program the music I could see so others could listen while they played. I was the first and second person to reach a trillion won on Blink. The original first person was found out by a 'samaritan hacker'(i like that phrase, TM) to have been purchasing isk illegally. Which In no way could SomerBlink be at fault. Here in the states we have incredible problems with the good prince of Nigeria and others who try to extort and steal. A problem for ALL enterprises in and of Eve. I also remember in the beginning and after, there were convo's btwn CCP and Somer (that I only heard/read about in public channels) as he worked and crafted Blink to find out what were the rules. And rules such as the 3rd party licensing stuff (things i don't understand and which is probably not even an issue here) were not even invented yet. Some confusions just may lie in that the sandbox is also applicable to some of the ever changing and ever sculpted parts of Eve's evolution. Some parts are needing a re-balancing so to speak.
Mostly when I won, I would credit the winnings for the extra credit. I thought the practice by some of quick recycling the isk to get a certain award a bit gouche (which is legal and w/in those players rights of play). But really I didn't like the idea of adding tedium to the staff, they have stuff to deliver. Believe I only asked for pre-auth once over the years. Kind, considerate, gentle, fun, honourable, genuine and sincere of spirit, word and task is how I describe Somer, Andrev and staff. When I started to sell off my larger items in game for my hiatus, while Everyone I spoke with wouldn't give over 10%-ish of value, Blink not only gave me fair price, they gave the absolute fair price. No haggle, no wait btwn days to never to unload. And it felt wonderful. Those in industry understand the 'albatross sorrow'(TM) of building some items.
I used to purchase plex from BattleClinic(is a good place and good ppl). I believe in supporting good endeavours. Then came Blink, I watched for a time and I found everything in the people, the fun, the programming all to be a rather rejuvenating atmosphere for Eve. So I bought plex through SomerBlink even when there was only a pittance of an incentive. (seriously, it was a pittance.) From the time of when I was a stranger, to an acquaintance, to my fevered ramblings in channel (which I always found myself very adorable), always I was treated kindly and never did I even feel a hint of deception or malicious intent.
For now I purchase plex through Amazon. I've only purchased once through the Markee Dragon link as I had been waiting until issues with CCP were resolved. Reasons I buy plex: Those of us who are all grown up and can afford some play money in their budget, have the right. I believe in CCP and their abilities, so while I could take advantage of the PLETHORA of ways to use ingame currency to play for free, I choose to support CCP as a company I believe in by purchasing my play. I try to buy locally in RL to support my community and so I do for Eve. (Note to some, yes I do buy plex, but when you have a few 6yr old accounts, it's pretty easy to get in game isk if you want. Be patient, skill up and play on.)
Summary: However this turns, It's not a deal breaker for me with CCP. They are good people, who in the end, do what's right by the community for both fairness and fun. (except i just got a PS4 and haven't gotten to try Dust. 'sup?) And Somer, if ever in KY, you're welcome to come figure out this damn computer in my tractor for me. Andrev too, but only if he brings suckling meats we may smoke. (Notice I just invited strangers. That's how much I respect and believe in Somer's steadfast character.) YOUR KING AND LOVED ONE, L'amour Sauvage |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:19:00 -
[968] - Quote
Rob Kashuken wrote:Question to CCP Falcon:
Given CCP's usual punitive actions when RMT accounts and their clients are discovered, will the clients of Somer that partook of this offer also face the usual actions for being a party to RMT transactions?
Given CCP's both tacit and actual approval of Somer I can't see it happening it would also mean a good number of players would never trust CCP again. But then as this thread and other related stuff has shown there are a few very vocal people who want their pound of flesh no matter the implications of the outcome (not really surprising being it is eve) so who knows what will happen. |
Prince Kobol
2066
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:41:00 -
[969] - Quote
This entire situation raises a worrying aspect about how CCP operates as a company.
I find it very disturbing / worrying that CCP Falcon who is the Community Manager was only made aware of this by the CSM.
Surely this should of been something that was brought to his, or at least his teams attention when the proposal was first brought forward by Somer. I would of also thought that sites such as Somer, Eve Bet, Dotlan etc fall under the Community Teams jurisdiction so to speak.
Something should of been in put in place where if a player or entity approaches CCP with a proposal of this nature that it would be bounced over the Community Team for vetting especially after what happened last year.
Maybe in the future CCP should create some kind of framework where fan created sites that use the Eve IP such as those already mentioned have a direct contact with the Community Team and any news ventures or ideas must be run past them first and not some VP in Sales who most likely has never played the game or even cares.
|
|
CCP Falcon
8202
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:44:00 -
[970] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:This entire situation raises a worrying aspect about how CCP operates as a company.
I find it very disturbing / worrying that CCP Falcon who is the Community Manager was only made aware of this by the CSM.
Surely this should of been something that was brought to his, or at least his teams attention when the proposal was first brought forward by Somer. I would of also thought that sites such as Somer, Eve Bet, Dotlan etc fall under the Community Teams jurisdiction so to speak.
This is something that was basically an internal misunderstanding at CCP, and I'm not gonna point fingers at people in relation to it.
Basically, a breakdown in communication with people not knowing who to contact during the transition of the Community Team's leadership to me, and a few other factors.
It's something that we're very much looking at changing, and we're taking it into account as part of the ongoing investigation.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
|
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
301
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:46:00 -
[971] - Quote
It's a general fault in many gaming companies that their sales rep or top brass for that matter have very little understanding of the product they're actually selling. This if of c. a smaller matter when dealing with in game promotional stuff for COD XI and not for an MMO game such as EvE. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:52:00 -
[972] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:This entire situation raises a worrying aspect about how CCP operates as a company.
I find it very disturbing / worrying that CCP Falcon who is the Community Manager was only made aware of this by the CSM.
Surely this should of been something that was brought to his, or at least his teams attention when the proposal was first brought forward by Somer. I would of also thought that sites such as Somer, Eve Bet, Dotlan etc fall under the Community Teams jurisdiction so to speak. This is something that was basically an internal misunderstanding at CCP, and I'm not gonna point fingers at people in relation to it. Basically, a breakdown in communication with people not knowing who to contact during the transition of the Community Team's leadership to me, and a few other factors. It's something that we're very much looking at changing, and we're taking it into account as part of the ongoing investigation.
If I may ask, what - if any - attention is put on the role of Markee Dragon in this scheme. Considering past track records prior to this situation, following the time after CCP's War on RMT and the subsequent Margin Wars from Resellers/Affiliaties which Markee managed to win, after which he took in Somer?
Let's not go too much into the grey here on this forum, but there's a lot of questions being asked on the broader repercussions on Markee's attempts at legitimisation using the Somer Schemes. It's not like there aren't tons of precedents related to his activities surrounding other games.
So, it's a factor. We'd just like to know if this is a connection / factor that is part of the current discussion / investigation. It's pretty much an integrity / long term consequence thing, sad as it is.
|
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:53:00 -
[973] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Good morning everyone A few more comments and answers... hopefully we'll have closure on this within the next 48 hours. KaRa DaVuT wrote:
isnt there any mechanism in CCP to check their dealings and third party service providers to see that If they are keeping their part of the promise? Because What somer did like you said did not meet the original proposition. THen why CCP ever check them ?
Right now, we work on a case by case basis with each partner and make sure they're sticking to what's agreed. KaRa DaVuT wrote:This is not mob justice.
This is a COMMUNITY that tries to solve the problem with free thinking. If you cant deal with other people's opinions then I suggest you to read somewhere else.
I agree completely. Once our investigation is complete, if there is evidence of any rule breaking activity, SOMER Blink will be treat the same as any other individual or organization in game. I'm meeting again today within CCP, and will be in touch with the CSM again once we have further developments. Thanks for the patience guys
Thank you very much for answering. You are the sole statue of trust in CCP rightnow and you got a heavy bourden on your shoulders. I again admired your dedication today.
Hope everything will be good for us all.
|
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:00:00 -
[974] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c While I can't speak for CCP, the CSM has no desire to see the ball dropped on this either. More information will be forthcoming, no doubt after we have another string of meetings, and suffice it to say that I'm broadly positive as to how this matter is being handled on CCP's end. They're giving this a lot of thought, looking at it from all the angles, and are making a good faith effort to do right by the community. In a situation this large and complicated, that will take some time.
Well of all your duties, I think this issue should be in Top priorith as this thing should be investigated. Also for the sake of the community, Somer should be treated like every other RMT'er. It is important to show that CCP is treating everyone equally. So please ensure that its happened.
Thank you
|
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:05:00 -
[975] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:This entire situation raises a worrying aspect about how CCP operates as a company.
I find it very disturbing / worrying that CCP Falcon who is the Community Manager was only made aware of this by the CSM.
Surely this should of been something that was brought to his, or at least his teams attention when the proposal was first brought forward by Somer. I would of also thought that sites such as Somer, Eve Bet, Dotlan etc fall under the Community Teams jurisdiction so to speak. This is something that was basically an internal misunderstanding at CCP, and I'm not gonna point fingers at people in relation to it. Basically, a breakdown in communication with people not knowing who to contact during the transition of the Community Team's leadership to me, and a few other factors. It's something that we're very much looking at changing, and we're taking it into account as part of the ongoing investigation.
For the sake of gaining the trust of the community back, that change is crucial.
Being the sole sane guy in there, your job is hard but I am sure that you wil achieve this also.
Although please, let CCP know that, to prove they are treating people equally, they have to treay somerset mahm like every other RMT'r out there.
I am not trying to "hang" the guy, but I simply demand equal treatment. |
K1ng Splurge
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:10:00 -
[976] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:For the sake of gaining the trust of the community back, that change is crucial.
Being the sole sane guy in there, your job is hard but I am sure that you wil achieve this also.
Although please, let CCP know that, to prove they are treating people equally, they have to treay somerset mahm like every other RMT'r out there.
I am not trying to "hang" the guy, but I simply demand equal treatment.
You've posted the same thing over and over. We get it, you mad and love CCP Falcon.
So clam your roll and let things flow |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:16:00 -
[977] - Quote
111010110 wrote:So, is the CSM taking the Somer angle only, or are folks wondering about the role of Markee and the influence achieved on "his" EVE market since the Margin Wars?
The CSM has been given an incredible amount of access and data on all of this, and is of course considering all angles as well. We'll be as open as we can when we can, for now though we're going to keep doing our jobs to help ensure the best end result for the EVE community as a whole. |
Phantra
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
101
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:20:00 -
[978] - Quote
I've got an opinion. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1553
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:23:00 -
[979] - Quote
We just need to wait till someone fills the void after SOMER |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
301
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:24:00 -
[980] - Quote
Phantra wrote:I've got an opinion.
Well let's hear it then, don't be shy. :) |
|
Xtreem
PERPIDE Ineluctable.
208
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:26:00 -
[981] - Quote
I am waiting with anticipation for how CCP deals with this. |
yo Outamon
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:27:00 -
[982] - Quote
Erm what about all the people who won't get a potential return on all the isk invested to gain 100s of tokens for there mini bonks and blasts is that part of the sensible closure??? Could have waited till the end of the party now people invested tones for nothing ... |
Joe Cittzen
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:31:00 -
[983] - Quote
yo Outamon wrote:Erm what about all the people who won't get a potential return on all the isk invested to gain 100s of tokens for there mini bonks and blasts is that part of the sensible closure??? Could have waited till the end of the party now people GAMBLED tones for nothing ...
FTFY yer welcome
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11008
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:32:00 -
[984] - Quote
yo Outamon wrote:Erm what about all the people who won't get a potential return on all the isk invested to gain 100s of tokens for there mini bonks and blasts is that part of the sensible closure??? Could have waited till the end of the party now people invested tones for nothing ...
CCP didn't tell Somer to close down, Somer did that on their own. Blame them. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Aelyras Altol
Stryker Industries
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:34:00 -
[985] - Quote
So all this outrage about blink, what about the eve news sites which pay people to write articles in isk, and then generate revenue through ads? |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:35:00 -
[986] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:111010110 wrote:So, is the CSM taking the Somer angle only, or are folks wondering about the role of Markee and the influence achieved on "his" EVE market since the Margin Wars?
The CSM has been given an incredible amount of access and data on all of this, and is of course considering all angles as well. We'll be as open as we can when we can, for now though we're going to keep doing our jobs to help ensure the best end result for the EVE community as a whole.
I realise that CCP will focus on the revenu aspects of this as well. It's a business, and ever since CCP's management moved away from the actual dynamic that's become a growing factor. With good consequences, but also with .. less than optimal consequences.
As was said elsewhere on another forum, for players that Somer correspondence would have been clear right off the bat. For CCP who focuses on the commercial aspects, not. And it's a grey area with legal ramifications as well.
But I hope that this is one situation where CSM does not let CCP simply close the door on that (in terms of what you will be allowed to talk about) for a very simple reason: CCP's integrity is directly related to their perception. We saw that once when a certain someone said CCP would look at what players do, and not what they say. The reverse holds true as well, especially when taking into account that this is not the first time this situation has crashed the proverbial table.
Let's not forget that when push comes to shove Somer was an ideal instrument for something like Markee Dragon to get a hold of their EVE market. The stamp of legitimisation. Problem is, where it comes to the trust relation customers will need to see more than just the Somer angle to affirm that relation. It's been a huge factor in the past, time and time again. It still is.
This really is a case where the standard routine of "feedback instrument so stick to in game stuff" doesn't cut it, but CCP does have a bit of a history of not realising how an iron curtain there in these kinds of circumstances hurts them in the long run.
|
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
301
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:35:00 -
[987] - Quote
You gambled and you lost, now you just have to suck it up.
That Somer actually gave any money back was an apology of a sort or a way to just quit in style. |
yo Outamon
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:37:00 -
[988] - Quote
Not blaming anyone. just wanted to know the plan if any for the reinbersment of isk that was put in by many to gain tokens to win prizes that won't be dished out that all Keep calm eat bacon. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3685
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:40:00 -
[989] - Quote
yo Outamon wrote:Not blaming anyone. just wanted to know the plan if any for the reinbersment of isk that was put in by many to gain tokens to win prizes that won't be dished out that all Keep calm eat bacon.
There will be no reimbursement from CCP for this. And if you want a source for that statement, go look at Falcon's post about Blink shutting down.
CCP in no way guarantee any isk given to people in game. (Just look at Eve Bank and Phaser Inc.) Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:40:00 -
[990] - Quote
yo Outamon wrote:Not blaming anyone. just wanted to know the plan if any for the reinbersment of isk that was put in by many to gain tokens to win prizes that won't be dished out that all Keep calm eat bacon.
ISK balance including any tickets purchased on the recent bonk has/will be refunded but doesn't look like there is any form of reimbursement for tokens which would be a bit hard to calculate against future potential winnings heh. |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20254
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:50:00 -
[991] - Quote
Aelyras Altol wrote:So all this outrage about blink, what about the eve news sites which pay people to write articles in isk, and then generate revenue through ads? Paying people with ISK for Eve related news articles and opinion pieces is explicitly allowed by CCP, monetisation through ads is also fine as far as I'm aware.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1498
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:51:00 -
[992] - Quote
What concerns me is that someone can get permanently banned after being sworn at, called "the N word" and receiving death threats after asking someone to sing about Gummy Bears over TS3... but someone else who RMTs (after lying to CCP) just gets a slap on the wrist. Epic Space Cat |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
65
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:51:00 -
[993] - Quote
111010110 wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:111010110 wrote:So, is the CSM taking the Somer angle only, or are folks wondering about the role of Markee and the influence achieved on "his" EVE market since the Margin Wars?
The CSM has been given an incredible amount of access and data on all of this, and is of course considering all angles as well. We'll be as open as we can when we can, for now though we're going to keep doing our jobs to help ensure the best end result for the EVE community as a whole. I realise that CCP will focus on the revenu aspects of this as well. It's a business, and ever since CCP's management moved away from the actual dynamic that's become a growing factor. With good consequences, but also with .. less than optimal consequences. As was said elsewhere on another forum, for players that Somer correspondence would have been clear right off the bat. For CCP who focuses on the commercial aspects, not. And it's a grey area with legal ramifications as well. But I hope that this is one situation where CSM does not let CCP simply close the door on that (in terms of what you will be allowed to talk about) for a very simple reason: CCP's integrity is directly related to their perception. We saw that once when a certain someone said CCP would look at what players do, and not what they say. The reverse holds true as well, especially when taking into account that this is not the first time this situation has crashed the proverbial table. Let's not forget that when push comes to shove Somer was an ideal instrument for something like Markee Dragon to get a hold of their EVE market. The stamp of legitimisation. Problem is, where it comes to the trust relation customers will need to see more than just the Somer angle to affirm that relation. It's been a huge factor in the past, time and time again. It still is. This really is a case where the standard routine of "feedback instrument so stick to in game stuff" doesn't cut it, but CCP does have a bit of a history of not realising how an iron curtain there in these kinds of circumstances hurts them in the long run.
What would you like to see happen, ideally?
|
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:52:00 -
[994] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:yo Outamon wrote:Not blaming anyone. just wanted to know the plan if any for the reinbersment of isk that was put in by many to gain tokens to win prizes that won't be dished out that all Keep calm eat bacon. There will be no reimbursement from CCP for this. And if you want a source for that statement, go look at Falcon's post about Blink shutting down. CCP in no way guarantee any isk given to people in game. (Just look at Eve Bank and Phaser Inc.)
Which is in accordance with rules, and it's a good thing. A good indicator also that CCP did learn from the previous upheaval when compensation was provided.
That last part is probably one of the bigger reasons why many players were so quick to look at the next scheme, and see its nature and consequences. |
Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment HUN Reloaded
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:56:00 -
[995] - Quote
I do not really understand that epic hissy.
Somer offered a promotion, that he would buy your ingame plex, if you buy timecode from him. This code is full legal, since he is an official reseller. This is an out of game code. When Somer buys the plex from you it could be come from this code, or from another plex, but all of the plexes are come from out of the game. At the start of the promotion plex was 788M, he offered a 800M buy for it. There was nothing written about if it will be rising, if plex's price will be rising. And he offered to buy plex from you, not give you ingame plex (for real money).
After that will I be banned if I tell to a friend in the bar: "if you buy me a nice honeybeer i will buy your drake for a better price then the market's price"? Or just if i talk about this on a website? Or just if it is about plex? Or just if it is a code what you can claim as a plex? Giving free playable ISK was another story - it was much more RMT-like. But I don't think this is it. Especially until it did not start, none of you are able to tell it is or not, couse until it is just "maybe", or "could be", or "sounds like". Yeah, I can't quote the EULA, but i have to say, since I work in the law-system, you cannot do with this anything from the side of the law.
Since everything is owned by CCP he can say "this is too good, there is a hole in our EULA or in the law". Sure he can. But start this blame-war is just simply stupid, and it seems that if you have a good idea, we will wait what the community say, and tear you apart if they go to rage. I simply can't imagine that the "buy plex for bonus somer-credit" never came to the sight of CCP, until that big hissy started at the end... |
CroisisCZ
Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN
23
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:02:00 -
[996] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:After that will I be banned if I tell to a friend in the bar: "if you buy me a nice honeybeer i will buy your drake for a better price then the market's price"?
This sounds like RMT to me, hands down... Your friend pays real money for ingame benefit... |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11018
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:02:00 -
[997] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:Somer offered a promotion, that he would buy your ingame plex, if you buy timecode from him. This code is full legal, since he is an official reseller. This is an out of game code. When Somer buys the plex from you it could be come from this code, or from another plex, but all of the plexes are come from out of the game. At the start of the promotion plex was 788M, he offered a 800M buy for it. There was nothing written about if it will be rising, if plex's price will be rising. And he offered to buy plex from you, not give you ingame plex (for real money).
Because in exchange for you buying a PLEX code from Markee Dragon with Somer's referral code, he'll buy the PLEX from you at above market rates. So basically, you give him money (through a middleman) and he gives you ISK (by buying a PLEX at a higher price) Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:02:00 -
[998] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Good morning everyone ...lots of awesome... You've handled this very well thus far. I agree with Chribba and others that this investigation should not be over until everything has been uncovered and any rulebreakers have been punished appropriately, and I am happy to see that there is consensus here.
Thanks for all the hard work, looking forward to the future updates :) |
Tyrendian Biohazard
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
333
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:18:00 -
[999] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:I do not really understand that epic hissy.
Somer offered a promotion, that he would buy your ingame plex, if you buy timecode from him. This code is full legal, since he is an official reseller. This is an out of game code. When Somer buys the plex from you it could be come from this code, or from another plex, but all of the plexes are come from out of the game. At the start of the promotion plex was 788M, he offered a 800M buy for it. There was nothing written about if it will be rising, if plex's price will be rising. And he offered to buy plex from you, not give you ingame plex (for real money).
I believe that Somer is not an official re-seller, but rather was using an affiliate link through an official re-seller (Markee Dragon) in which they received a cut for being a referral. That being said, the proposal that they had given stated specifically:
Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required.
The problem was, they were offering additional incentive to do this deal (in the form of buying the PLEX codes at above market costs).
The other thing I wonder is (and I haven't seen) did Somer ONLY accept codes purchased from Markee Dragon, or would any PLEX code purchase suffice? Was a list of PLEX codes sold via Somer's referral link kept and only those codes could be redeemed on their site.
EDIT: Removed a speculative sentence. My twitch stream to help new players: http://www.twitch.tv/biohazrd51
|
Jai Centarium
Anqara Expeditions
53
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:18:00 -
[1000] - Quote
How many Ishukone Scorps are you going to award Somer for shutting down and refunding money? Certified purveyor of the High Life. |
|
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
137
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:23:00 -
[1001] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:I do not really understand that epic hissy. That's because you haven't read the thread, or even parts of it, not even the blue posts. That is the reason why you're repeating the same old arguments, which have already been debated to death again, and again, and then once more. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
217
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:24:00 -
[1002] - Quote
Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c
+1 Senex Legio |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
137
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:27:00 -
[1003] - Quote
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:The other thing I wonder is (and I haven't seen) did Somer ONLY accept codes purchased from Markee Dragon, or would any PLEX code purchase suffice? Was a list of PLEX codes sold via Somer's referral link kept and only those codes could be redeemed on their site. He wasn't going to pay for GTC codes, he'd buy PLEX (the ingame item). But only one for every PLEX code you bought via his affiliate link. Since PLEX are fungible, he wouldn't care where you got that exact PLEX you're giving him, just that the number in the contract matches the amount you bought from Markee Dragon. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Random McNally
Isogen 5
69719
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:28:00 -
[1004] - Quote
Thanks Falcon and CCP for looking into this.
Co-Host of the High Drag Podcast. http://highdrag.wordpress.com/ Check out the space music at http://minddivided.com In Game Channel HighDragChat |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:28:00 -
[1005] - Quote
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:
The other thing I wonder is (and I haven't seen) did Somer ONLY accept codes purchased from Markee Dragon, or would any PLEX code purchase suffice? Was a list of PLEX codes sold via Somer's referral link kept and only those codes could be redeemed on their site.
EDIT: Removed a speculative sentence.
You (in general) would have to have purchased GTC via Markee Dragon (or any other provider somer used but afaik they were only using MD as far back as the back dating goes) originally to get credit to use to exchange PLEX for ISK. It doesn't matter where the PLEX came from though as long as you had credit to enable the transaction. If you had say 20 credits from past GTC referrals you could have bought 20 PLEX on the market and exchanged them for 830M ISK each. |
Kw1jybo
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:29:00 -
[1006] - Quote
CCP Falcon,
For those of us who like to skim the forums at work, can you tl;dr this with exec updates to your first post in this thread. I go to my 1 hour meeting and come back and the thread is like 5 pages longer, and to be honest all I really care about are any updates you may have about this.
thanks. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:30:00 -
[1007] - Quote
Kw1jybo wrote:CCP Falcon,
For those of us who like to skim the forums at work, can you tl;dr this with exec updates to your first post in this thread. I go to my 1 hour meeting and come back and the thread is like 5 pages longer, and to be honest all I really care about are any updates you may have about this.
thanks.
You can keep clicking on the blue eve dev bar on the avatar to go to the next dev post without having to wade through everything inbetween. |
Tyrendian Biohazard
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
333
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:32:00 -
[1008] - Quote
Thanks for the clarification Enaris and Rroff. I had looked at the site quickly and thought that it was all based on codes. Makes more sense now. My twitch stream to help new players: http://www.twitch.tv/biohazrd51
|
Kw1jybo
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:32:00 -
[1009] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Kw1jybo wrote:CCP Falcon,
For those of us who like to skim the forums at work, can you tl;dr this with exec updates to your first post in this thread. I go to my 1 hour meeting and come back and the thread is like 5 pages longer, and to be honest all I really care about are any updates you may have about this.
thanks. You can keep clicking on the blue eve dev bar on the avatar to go to the next dev post without having to wade through everything inbetween.
You, sir, are a genius. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11026
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:32:00 -
[1010] - Quote
Is "stakeholders" CCP jargon for "relevant people in CCP" or something? Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:35:00 -
[1011] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
What would you like to see happen, ideally?
Tough question. At the end of the day that is in CCP's hands, though to a degree also in the hands of the CSM. In a way it's your job here to prevent CCP from throwing up an iron curtain on "talk about stuff in game, anything else is ours and off limits".
Reason for that is simple. If you can't trust CCP's decisions in these matters, it gets ever harder for people to keep putting faith in the game itself. It creates completely different behaviour, and completely different expectation patterns
I'm sure someone genius in brand management and marketing would put Hilmar and Lisa in front of a camera with Community Management taking them through the various points of confusion / concern / questions emphasing what matters, taking both the human and the professional angles. But I imagine that's a bit of a bridge too far these days for CCP.
Either way, I can't see a devblog with abstracts solving integrity challenges here. Let's be honest, this situation is not the first time. And it isn't just a Somer thing. Keep in mind Markee got his special relationship, his community spotlight, his means to win the previous margin war - before taking in Somer as the instrument to achieve that veil of "legit" to prevent competition remaining a factor over time - while profiting from it in many ways.
It's not as if Markee doesn't have the exact same history of methodology and timelines in situations surrounding other games. I can understand why many people see Somer/Markee as the same thing. And that is a problem for CCP.
I'm much less interested, as most people probably are, in what procedural step here or there at CCP resulted in what issue or what happened before that (by now) infamous correspondence between Lisa and Somer leading to what many perceive as a weird communication thing. I'm much more interested in hearing from CCP how this repeat mess plays out for how they evaluate their external commercial relations. Which matters, because to many people Somer/Markee is symptom of the same. More so, let's not forget the benefits Markee was able to get over time.
People don't know why this happened again. That's a thing. But the rest comes down to the next parts of the investigation. Chribba already pointed that out (a signal in its own right).
And there the Markee angle needs to be put on the table. I understand there will be people at CCP who don't like that, but this is not about them, it's about the nature of the relation between CCP and the evolution of the baby they made. Pun intended, obviously.
Another thing I see a lot of questions about is where this proper cleanup and shutdown from Somer is coming. Someone who has repeatedly attempted to introduce RMT schemes suddenly going all moral? It's why people wonder if CCP pressured that. Or not. Let's not forget that Somer's financial relation is with Markee, not with CCP. And Markee has always demonstrated to seek legitimisation no matter what happens to the intermediaries connected with the target game environment itself. I can understand why it spooks people that such an agency has a veil of special relation. So that is a thing as well. It's a perception problem regardless of the underlying problem either way.
I'd love to see CCP seizing this as an opportunity. Not another kneejerk or knee bending. But a professional and human session of putting everything on the table so folks can maintain that integrity of CCP's relation with its customers. That's not dangerous, CCP should have learned that by now. On the contrary. But that will require them going over what happened, how it happened, what the road towards that was, the parties involved - but even more so about what priorities and considerations are important to them, how that plays out for customers - and all the parties involved. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:42:00 -
[1012] - Quote
As I missed this earlier:
CCP Falcon wrote:Rroff wrote:Given the lengths some have gone to to stir up anti-blink sentiment to say there has been no witch hunt at all is hardly accurate. There's no witch hunt here on our part. If people stay within the game rules, then we have no problem. If they don't, they get into trouble.
Was not accusing CCP of a witch hunt - I am however aware that certain of the more vocal efforts to have Somer taken down are motivated by something far far from altruistic (even if Somer is in the wrong which in itself I don't have my head around to make a call on).
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
184
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:53:00 -
[1013] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Was not accusing CCP of a witch hunt - I am however aware that certain of the more vocal efforts to have Somer taken down are motivated by something far far from altruistic (even if Somer is in the wrong which in itself I don't have my head around to make a call on).
"I think this is being done, so therefore it must be happening sans any evidence to support the suspicion" LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11029
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:55:00 -
[1014] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Was not accusing CCP of a witch hunt - I am however aware that certain of the more vocal efforts to have Somer taken down are motivated by something far far from altruistic (even if Somer is in the wrong which in itself I don't have my head around to make a call on).
so tell me more about these ~ulterior motives~ Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23974
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:03:00 -
[1015] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:I do not really understand that epic hissy. You don't understand why people take umbrage at RMT? Are you quite sure you want to go with that question?
By the way, most of what you describe is not how it happened. Somer is not an official reseller; he did offer extra ISK solely in exchange for real cash; and absolutely no-one is tearing apart a good idea.
Andski wrote:Is "stakeholders" CCP jargon for "relevant people in CCP" or something? CCP and CSM and other parties involved in whatever business they're conducting (and yes, even the players occasionally). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2902
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:06:00 -
[1016] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business.
CCP - posts like this are the reason we need a downvote option on these forums. When people say stupid things, we should have the option of letting them know that what they just said was dumb. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Phantra
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
102
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:12:00 -
[1017] - Quote
I was offered -ú50 for a tech moon in earshot of CCP Unifex a couple years back. I think it was supposed to be a joke but he didn't look amused..
CCP take RMTing pretty seriously, even after a few pints |
Kw1jybo
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:14:00 -
[1018] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Beta Maoye wrote:I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business. CCP - posts like this are the reason we need a downvote option on these forums. When people say stupid things, we should have the option of letting them know that what they just said was dumb.
+1 |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:14:00 -
[1019] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Andski wrote:Is "stakeholders" CCP jargon for "relevant people in CCP" or something? They've been using it for quite some time now. It's basically CCP and CSM and other parties involved in whatever business they're conducting (and yes, even the players occasionally).
Remember when CCP first introduced the terminology & methodology and CSM / Players took those concepts and went to work with it? CCP ended up not liking it very much, to a point where over the course of two CSM terms it went from "stakeholder" to "feedback instrument" reserving the stakeholder term to very limited applications of SCRUM methodology :P
Which is why I was surprised to see Falcon use the term in the current context, which is quite different from what it's been, much closer to during the days of CSM 4 / 5. Understandable, but a tad risky.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11030
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:16:00 -
[1020] - Quote
"Stakeholders are essentially any person or group of people who have an interest in your product that arenGÇÖt directly involved with its creation. Basically, anyone who isnGÇÖt a product owner, scrum master or team member is a stakeholder in your product and potentially a useful source for feedback."
http://thescrumblog.blogspot.cz/2011/04/stakeholders-and-feedback-in-scrum.html
huh, forgot about scrum Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2902
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:19:00 -
[1021] - Quote
yo Outamon wrote:Erm what about all the people who won't get a potential return on all the isk invested to gain 100s of tokens for there mini bonks and blasts is that part of the sensible closure??? Could have waited till the end of the party now people invested tones for nothing ...
If a gambling establishment is your investment plan, you, my friend, have some serious financial issues that you need to seek professional help with.
Also, as with all investments, they are not garunteed to increase with time. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
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CCP Falcon
8224
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:24:00 -
[1022] - Quote
Andski wrote:"Stakeholders are essentially any person or group of people who have an interest in your product that arenGÇÖt directly involved with its creation. Basically, anyone who isnGÇÖt a product owner, scrum master or team member is a stakeholder in your product and potentially a useful source for feedback." http://thescrumblog.blogspot.cz/2011/04/stakeholders-and-feedback-in-scrum.htmlhuh, forgot about scrum
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11030
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:27:00 -
[1023] - Quote
Man you've really been showcasing mod abilities in this thread: endless quotes per post, images, oh boy Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
154
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:29:00 -
[1024] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Fracoix wrote:Enjoy the hit to PLEX sales...... Sorry to disappoint you, but I value my own integrity, the trust of the community and the rebuilding of bridges and trust between CCP and our players more than I value the bottom line at the end of the month. Our community is the blood that courses through the veins of EVE, without it we'd be screwed. I'll take a healthy, trusting community over a fatter bottom line at the end of the month any time. I just want to say thank you CCP Falcon for your great work and how much this comment I quoted means to me. For a long time now I had doubts about where EVE is going, CCP seamed to jump on every bandwagon to generate some money while hurting the game at large.
Your comment shows to me that you indeed understand what's important for the game to survive in the long term and you completely restored my faith in a bright future for EVE.
I am really glad that you work at CCP! the Code ALWAYS wins |
Victor Andall
728
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:42:00 -
[1025] - Quote
Andski wrote:Man you've really been showcasing mod abilities in this thread: endless quotes per post, images, oh boy
Don't forget burning Dinsdale. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6012
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:42:00 -
[1026] - Quote
Andski wrote:Man you've really been showcasing mod abilities in this thread: endless quotes per post, images, oh boy
It's almost as if there is real forum software buried under here.
They just haven't unchecked the [Sucks] box in the config section for regular users.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6012
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:44:00 -
[1027] - Quote
Andski wrote:Man you've really been showcasing mod abilities in this thread: endless quotes per post, images, oh boy
It's almost as if there is real forum software buried under here.
They just haven't unchecked the [Sucks] box in the config section for us regular users.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
604
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:46:00 -
[1028] - Quote
Somer down. GJ CCP! Good luck hunting the rest of RMTraders. |
Delenda Hamidon
Intergalactic Fight Club Gentlemen's.Club
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:46:00 -
[1029] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Fracoix wrote:Enjoy the hit to PLEX sales...... Sorry to disappoint you, but I value my own integrity, the trust of the community and the rebuilding of bridges and trust between CCP and our players more than I value the bottom line at the end of the month. Our community is the blood that courses through the veins of EVE, without it we'd be screwed. I'll take a healthy, trusting community over a fatter bottom line at the end of the month any time. I just want to say thank you CCP Falcon for your great work and how much this comment I quoted means to me. For a long time now I had doubts about where EVE is going, CCP seamed to jump on every bandwagon to generate some money while hurting the game at large. Your comment shows to me that you indeed understand what's important for the game to survive in the long term and you completely restored my faith in a bright future for EVE. I am really glad that you work at CCP!
Man I can smell the crap on your nose from here. Notice that CCP falcon's title is community manager and not CCP Lawer or CCP Accountant. Its CCP Falcon's job to kiss butt to the community. Its other people's job to make the business decisions that actually affect the game. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11032
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:55:00 -
[1030] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Andski wrote:Man you've really been showcasing mod abilities in this thread: endless quotes per post, images, oh boy It's almost as if there is real forum software buried under here. They just haven't unchecked the [Sucks] box in the config section for us regular users. edit: the IRONY
Is there even any good ASP.NET forum software? Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
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Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
300
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:00:00 -
[1031] - Quote
You can hear the pitchforks rattling from this thread for a mile. It isn't impressive imo how the community have reacted. Brings back memories of ripard teg.
Surely if CCP are serious then they should just scrap the monetary reward for selling an ETC, as that opens the door to all manner of real money possibilities, many of which are probably still going on.
If CCP are serious about this then they will scrap the current Plex scheme and make it so that they are purchasable from them only.
I could setup another website tomorrow, offer loads of cool stuff to join my corp, and "strongly encourage" (wink wink) anyone that joins that they need to but PLEX through me. The whole scheme is so easily exploitable, and will continue to be exploited unless CCP seriously want to do something about it.
I don't think they really do as long as the $$ are coming in, and yet again are pandering to the town hall pitchfork wielders on this one. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4138
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:09:00 -
[1032] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:The whole scheme is so easily exploitable, and will continue to be exploited unless CCP seriously want to do something about it. And hopefully they will dish out the permenant bans, which will be doing something about it. It's not like the affiliate program is any easier to exploit than the fact that people can pay other people money. The reason normal RMT is kept under control is because CCP actively seek and destroy the perpetrators. As long as they show that in this case the same will happen, 99% of the playerbase won't be trying to exploit it, and they can continue to work on banning the 1%. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6013
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:13:00 -
[1033] - Quote
Andski wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Andski wrote:Man you've really been showcasing mod abilities in this thread: endless quotes per post, images, oh boy It's almost as if there is real forum software buried under here. They just haven't unchecked the [Sucks] box in the config section for us regular users. edit: the IRONY Is there even any good ASP.NET forum software? edit: huh, looks like these forums are based on http://www.yetanotherforum.net/
If it is, I's wager it's an old version, and CCP have modified it to an extent they can no longer maintain a painless upgrade path. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
300
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:19:00 -
[1034] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:The whole scheme is so easily exploitable, and will continue to be exploited unless CCP seriously want to do something about it. It's not like the affiliate program is any easier to exploit than the fact that people can pay other people money. I disagree, it is much easier to get people to hand over cash indirectly through a scheme like that than get them to pin in card details and send money directly to someone bank account.
I don't personally see any problem in content creators in the community getting a small monetary sum in relation to work they've put into the game if people are happy to pay for it. I would bet that CCP is fairly ambivalent about it also otherwise they'd scrap the ETC code scheme, after all they bend over backwards to encourage content creators such as somer, goonswarm, and many others which they list regularly on their blogs. Bots on the other hand are a completely different issue.
|
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:21:00 -
[1035] - Quote
Guillane Itaril wrote:Somerset Mahms continuous attempts to RMT was not the problem GÇô His business has earned over a hundred thousand dollars from EVE thus far, of course he wants to continue.
The problem was CCPGÇÖs inability to fairly deal with this attitude, being extremely lenient with Somerset Mahm's RMT business, with no repercussions whatsoever thus far.
tl;dr: While I agree 100% that the real impropriety that occurred is an issue of favoritism, the reasons for that favoritism to occur are not universally negative, wrong, or undesirable. If anything, CCP should just codify the terms of their favoritism.
I think it's important to point out WHY CCP might have been treating Somer differently, because this isn't the simple black and white issue people want it to be.
The EULA against RMT exists for a single purpose: ISK->$ typically creates a ton of very difficult problems for a game; hacked accounts, botting, etc.; that are damaging to the game and the community. This occurs because $ is such a powerful motivator that the game becomes irrelevant to the desire to make $ (in fact, in the case of hacked accounts, often even the real world law becomes irrelevant). This is on top of all the various legal/tax ramifications for CCP should they accidentally end up in a real-world $-based business scheme with a 3rd party that they didn't intend to have. The prohibition against ISK->$ exists solely to enable CCP to crack down on the providers that are making the game worse for everyone by employing these tactics to generate ISK, as well as to protect CCP from legal gray areas.
Now we come to Somer. As far as anyone can tell, nothing Somer did in their RMT scheme actually hurt the game. There is no evidence that Somer hacked accounts, ran bots, or did anything negative for the community or the game in their quest for ISK->$. Heck, as far as anyone can tell statistically, there isn't even evidence that the gambling service itself wasn't exactly as described (of course the house always wins, but the odds were above board and not obviously being manipulated). If anything, there is every indication that Somer was, at worst, a neutral impact on the game and possibly even a net positive to the community (this, of course, wandering into opinion).
Does the EULA exist as an abstract codified set of law that MUST BE ENFORCED just for the sake of enforcing it? NO. The EULA exists to allow CCP to do what they need to in order to PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME. The integrity of the game is the principle, the "spirit of the law" if you will, which the EULA exists to codify. But as with all such things, written law can never fully capture the spirit of its intent, and sometimes even comes into conflict with that intent.
Finally, the crux... if you were CCP, and your EULA against RMT existed to protect the integrity of the game, and you see Somer doing a verifiable but somewhat low key ISK->$ scheme that doesn't seem to be harming the integrity of the game in any fashion while possibly even boosting PLEX sales, are you going to crack down and enfroce the EULA "just because", or are you going to understandably turn a blind eye? More importantly, what SHOULD you do, again understanding that the EULA doesn't exist just to be enforced for no reason but rather as a tool to allow CCP to protect the integrity of their game?
That's not to say there aren't real issues with turning a blind eye... foremost among them being the argument that 3rd parties cannot compete on an even playing field if there is unwritten rules about who is allowed to do what. But the funny thing is I would be 100% fine with CCP coming out and saying "Hey, Somer can RMT because they do it in a way that doesn't seem to hurt anything... we'll put in an approval process for anyone else to submit their RMT scheme to us as well so we can verify it doesn't damage the game world/community".
Ironically this all blew up when CCP (and Somer) started flaunting that favoritism back with the community spotlight/custom ship deal. Their RMT scheme had been well understood and frequently pointed out long before that, but there was no damaging community backlash against CCP UNTIL they began to so blatantly flout their back-room dealings in the public eye. If they had all just kept quiet and pretended to continue ignoring each other, Somer would still be happily RMT'ing today. EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2498
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:31:00 -
[1036] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Kw1jybo wrote:CCP Falcon,
For those of us who like to skim the forums at work, can you tl;dr this with exec updates to your first post in this thread. I go to my 1 hour meeting and come back and the thread is like 5 pages longer, and to be honest all I really care about are any updates you may have about this.
thanks. You can keep clicking on the blue eve dev bar on the avatar to go to the next dev post without having to wade through everything inbetween.
Well, I never know'd that!
Thank you good sir This is not a signature. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:31:00 -
[1037] - Quote
So once again, because CCP lacks any common sense, or ability to communicate, Somer gets thrown under the bus and the people at CCP go on as if nothing happened.
Reminds me of when The Mittani got banned.. CCP Devs were standing around him when he did his speal at Fanfest.. No action, no issues.. Then they re-aired it.. Un-edited.. again, no issues.. few days late drama starts and OMG we had NO idea and this is SO wrong we must BAN him for breaking the RULES..
CCP's Rep didn't ask the most OBVIOUS of questions, "How will you determine the price you pay for the PLEX?".. Didn't even forward it on to Legal, where they would have likely nailed down specifics. I doubt she even read it.
No rather than CCP standing up and saying it was THEM that ****** up, they evade.
Tell me what's gonna happen to Lisa? What happened to the Devs that didn't take ANY action then The Mittani did his bit at Fanfest? Nothing. Maybe a stern convo in the office.. But they take actual action against the other parties.
So, since you never actually gave Somer isk.. Really this is RMT because Somer gave you isk for an out-of-game service.. namely, using their referral link to buy GTC.
MANY programming projects, like killboards, forums, etc pay ISK to their programmers for out of game services. TMC, and EN24 pay isk for writers, again and out of game service. Many TS3 Servers, Mumble, etc are paid for in ISK for someone to host the server themselves.
How are these any different?
And we don't even want to talk about all the "RMT" that goes on in big alliances, on the forums, Comms, and IM's.. Be it paying $$$ for your titan from someone leaving the game, or as small as sending isk to someone for them to order you some item online or ship it to you.
CCP's got no answer there. The only act on Somer because of the mob mentality, same reason they did with Mittens. They never thought it was wrong, they never had an issue with the original Somer setup, but because Drama they gave in.
If CCP has rules they should be back and white, and enforced at the time. They need to stop living in grey vague areas and enforcing these rules retroactively, and only when there's some backlash. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:34:00 -
[1038] - Quote
Garai Nolen wrote:
RMT scheme.
And who was Somer's backer and financial partner in all of this? Another story of special relationships, favouritism in perception - at minimum special attention. A business with an established record - and taking pride in it publicly - of getting inside games, gaming the makers, and making money off it.
Somer gets tossed out just like the poor sods back in the day in UO, WoW & other games, while that business continues only to do it again - each time pushing the boundaries more.
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
184
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:35:00 -
[1039] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:How are these any different?
There is no incentivization of using TMC/EN24/etc.'s referral links. That is, one of several, key differences in your analogy. TMC doesn't provide you an in-game reward for buying GTC/PLEX through their site. Them paying their staff in ISK to provide the service for the site falls in line with CCP's policy. When CCP change that policy, they will adapt or cease to exist. Pretty simple really. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
195
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:39:00 -
[1040] - Quote
On one side, I generally agree that RMT schemes shouldn't be allowed. For everyone talking about the good somer did, remember that they did it while raking 20% off the top.
On the flip side, we all know PLEX are discounted when purchased in large quantities, CCP says this themselves. What prevents a group of people from getting together and buying 500+ plex at once at the discount price and distributing them among the group? What further prevents the organizer of that event from charging the individuals a price somewhere in-between the average cost of the purchased plex (assuming ~$14 or whatever), and the price of a single plex? ($20). Isn't that, effectively, an RMT scheme? |
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
144
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:41:00 -
[1041] - Quote
Garai Nolen wrote:Does the EULA exist as an abstract codified set of law that MUST BE ENFORCED just for the sake of enforcing it? NO. The EULA exists to allow CCP to do what they need to in order to PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME. The integrity of the game is the principle, the "spirit of the law" if you will, which the EULA exists to codify. But as with all such things, written law can never fully capture the spirit of its intent, and sometimes even comes into conflict with that intent.
Finally, the crux... if you were CCP, and your EULA against RMT existed to protect the integrity of the game, and you see Somer doing a verifiable but somewhat low key ISK->$ scheme that doesn't seem to be harming the integrity of the game in any fashion while possibly even boosting PLEX sales, are you going to crack down and enfroce the EULA "just because", or are you going to understandably turn a blind eye? More importantly, what SHOULD you do, again understanding that the EULA doesn't exist just to be enforced for no reason but rather as a tool to allow CCP to protect the integrity of their game?
Uneven enforcement of the rules of the game directly undermines the integrity of the game, and any trust the playerbase has in it, just like any other uneven enforcement of rules and laws directly undermines the faith the community has in the construct formed of those rules, and in those tasked with enforcement.
You can argue that rules/laws sometimes need to be changed. You can even argue that there is often moral value in intentionally breaking rules and laws that are immoral. But if you want to play that card, then you need to look back at the history of civil disobedience, and pay close attention to the fact that those individuals who willfully broke the law in order to call attention to that law for the purposes of changing it expected to be punished.
More, they planned on that punishment. That punishment was, in fact, the vehicle for raising awareness of the law that had them immorally punished. To argue that laws do not need to be enforced, or that transgressors should have an expectation of exemption, is simply naive. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:42:00 -
[1042] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:There is no incentivization of using TMC/EN24/etc.'s referral links. That is, one of several, key differences in your analogy. TMC doesn't provide you an in-game reward for buying GTC/PLEX through their site. Them paying their staff in ISK to provide the service for the site falls in line with CCP's policy. When CCP change that policy, they will adapt or cease to exist. Pretty simple really. CCP Policies are only there for the moment, and subject to change at the hint of Drama.
What Somer was doing before was clearly fine with CCP, they did it for what, 2, 3 years without a word? And in that time were actively advertised by CCP on the Login/Character Selection screen, and in the community posts.
CCP has NO idea where the line is.. They just make it up as the drama heats up. |
Prince Kobol
2068
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:46:00 -
[1043] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:This entire situation raises a worrying aspect about how CCP operates as a company.
I find it very disturbing / worrying that CCP Falcon who is the Community Manager was only made aware of this by the CSM.
Surely this should of been something that was brought to his, or at least his teams attention when the proposal was first brought forward by Somer. I would of also thought that sites such as Somer, Eve Bet, Dotlan etc fall under the Community Teams jurisdiction so to speak. This is something that was basically an internal misunderstanding at CCP, and I'm not gonna point fingers at people in relation to it. Basically, a breakdown in communication with people not knowing who to contact during the transition of the Community Team's leadership to me, and a few other factors. It's something that we're very much looking at changing, and we're taking it into account as part of the ongoing investigation.
Okay, I am going to say this as nobody has which has surprised me.
So what you are saying is that the person in question did not know how to find out who was part of the Community Team? I know you do not want to point any fingers at anybody as that is the professional ting to do and I really do appreciate that and your position but seriously, they were not able to find out what should be very basic information.
That is a pretty daming indictment
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Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
185
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:47:00 -
[1044] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:There is no incentivization of using TMC/EN24/etc.'s referral links. That is, one of several, key differences in your analogy. TMC doesn't provide you an in-game reward for buying GTC/PLEX through their site. Them paying their staff in ISK to provide the service for the site falls in line with CCP's policy. When CCP change that policy, they will adapt or cease to exist. Pretty simple really. CCP Policies are only there for the moment, and subject to change at the hint of Drama. What Somer was doing before was clearly fine with CCP, they did it for what, 2, 3 years without a word? And in that time were actively advertised by CCP on the Login/Character Selection screen, and in the community posts. CCP has NO idea where the line is.. They just make it up as the drama heats up.
Welcome to any company in the world that provides a service. They can change their policies at anytime they want and for any reason, your EULA/TOS agreement affirms you understand that. The assumption that CCP just decided that people being mad at Somer was enough to change policy overnight is pretty juvenile in understanding business operations. CCP aren't the best at running a company, but they're not doing this by the seat of their pants. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
185
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:47:00 -
[1045] - Quote
Edit - these ******* forums are terrible LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
145
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:48:00 -
[1046] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Tell me what's gonna happen to Lisa?
They almost certainly will not. Any HR department worth its salt will laugh at you if you tell them you want them to reveal internal disciplinary action. In fact, doing so can (it doesn't always, but it can) open them up to legal action from the individual whose disciplinary history has been revealed.
Anyone with any management training will tell you the exact same thing: disciplinary action doesn't get talked about. You don't tell one person what another person did, or what action was taken against them. I've seen Fortune 500 companies fire department heads for doing so, just within their own department.
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Garai Nolen
Xyjax
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:49:00 -
[1047] - Quote
111010110 wrote:Garai Nolen wrote:
RMT scheme.
And who was Somer's backer and financial partner in all of this? Another story of special relationships, favouritism in perception - at minimum special attention. A business with an established record - and taking pride in it publicly - of getting inside games, gaming the makers, and making money off it.
Again though, not nearly so black and white.
Markee and CCP have an actual business relationship as a reseller. That means there is probably a written contract somewhere. CCP is, most likely, actually very tightly constrained on what they can and can't do there without facing all sorts of legal penalties within the terms of that contract. We know for a fact that CCP modified the general terms of their reseller contracts to try and blanket-cover the problem scenario, but that doesn't mean CCP can single out Markee for repercussion without likely facing real legal backlash (in fact, exactly the sort of scenario their EULA is trying to protect them from when dealing with an entity like Somer).
Without knowing the details of those arrangements, we can't say if Markee violated any part of their contract with CCP in any meaningful way. Considering how quickly Somer killed the scheme and the general sneakiness around which they tried to get it vetted, I highly doubt Markee is in any way culpable (this time) with regard to whatever contractual obligations they have to deal with their affiliates in compliance with whatever deal they have with CCP.
As much as I'd like to vilify them, they are simply a business doing what businesses do under terms arranged with CCP that we don't get to see, so there's pretty much no way for us to reasonably criticise their behavior. Don't make the mistake of thinking that Markee should in any way be held to the same standards as a player/entity WITHin the EVE game universe. They are a business partner with CCP in the real world, wholly separate from EVE, and of course they are going to look for creative ways to earn $.
EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
Suzie Swindle
Code Enforcement and Compliance Agency
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:57:00 -
[1048] - Quote
I am surprised at how many dont seem to understand the difference between CCP letting groups pay people in isk for content to place on their site while making real life money from adds, and that of how somers was using its affiliate status to perform a kickback type deal....
Giving people isk to write articles/material for your site (and only those who you use get this isk), and making your money pay for your site via banner adds and links while offering no incentive to the people to do so, outside of them wanting to support your site is not RMT... You are not trading isk for cash in any way, those whom you gave isk for articles/material for your EVE related site dont need to buy anything from you/your affiliate, its no different then if someone gave you a great idea for your website and in game you tossed them some isk as a thank you.
The issue with somers is that they didnt do this... what they did was simply a give money to so and so whom gives me money every time you do, and I will give you some isk in game That is RMT. Its not hard to see the difference. And to those who try to say CCP somehow tossed somers under the bus... thats just BS. They didn't shut down blink, somers did, even in the "proof" somers put up and got permission for was NOT the same thing they did. And to top it off as soon as somers started up with this RMT scheme within the day CCP started to act.... you cant blame CCP for not taking action until the action is taken.
Does CCP need to do some internal work to make sure someone doesn't try to pull this type of crap again... yes... but thats internal and they will most likely be doing this now (or I hope so), also the RMT policy is pretty easy to understand, no incentives to get people to buy plex from your an affiliate of... Seems pretty black and white.
Oh and one last thing, people who say "well CCP selling plex is RMT".. its not RMT when its part of their business model sheesh... |
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:59:00 -
[1049] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Uneven enforcement of the rules of the game directly undermines the integrity of the game, and any trust the playerbase has in it, just like any other uneven enforcement of rules and laws directly undermines the faith the community has in the construct formed of those rules, and in those tasked with enforcement.
Uneven enforcement of the rules is a fact of life. In fact, there is plenty of philosophical argument that uneven enforcement is a necessary component to maintain actual justice within a system of law (e.g. jury nullification).
Quote:You can argue that rules/laws sometimes need to be changed. You can even argue that there is often moral value in intentionally breaking rules and laws that are immoral. But if you want to play that card, then you need to look back at the history of civil disobedience, and pay close attention to the fact that those individuals who willfully broke the law in order to call attention to that law for the purposes of changing it expected to be punished.
This is assuming that the EULA is somehow equivalent to real-world law. While it makes for useful analogy some of the time, this is simply false at the core of it. Therefore the moral and philosophical arguments around how strictly the EULA should be enforced vs. the same arguments as they might apply to real-world law don't have the same underpinnings.
Fundamentally I am perfectly fine with CCP being somewhat uneven with the enforcement of their EULA based on internal business decisions that we don't ever get to see. I would PREFER that they codify the terms of their favoritism so that all 3rd parties get an equal shot at this favoritism, but even if they DON'T it's not a morally black and white "CCP was wrong" issue.
They can't put me in jail, tax me, freeze my accounts, or strip me of liberties. They can, at most, stop me from playing their game. Given this drastically different level of power I'm perfectly willing to accept that the way CCP enforces the EULA does not, philosophically and morally, by necessity need to be handled in the same way that a government should enforce its law. There are certainly aspects where the same basic arguments apply, but more importantly there are aspects where they definitely DO NOT. I would argue that the importance of even enforcement of the EULA is one of those specific aspects that is in stark contrast to real-world law.
Though again, as I said, it would benefit CCP at this point to codify the terms of their favoritism with regard to acceptable RMT. But only because the community has, for various reasons, decided it's an issue that now needs to be addressed.
EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
Prince Kobol
2068
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:03:00 -
[1050] - Quote
Suzie Swindle wrote:
Does CCP need to do some internal work to make sure someone doesn't try to pull this type of crap again... yes... but thats internal and they will most likely be doing this now (or I hope so),
You would of though after what happened last time they would have but apparently they haven't.. big surprise...
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Garai Nolen
Xyjax
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:09:00 -
[1051] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:CCP has NO idea where the line is.. They just make it up as the drama heats up.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
CCP made business decisions that were clearly favorable to their bottom line for a long time. Then a community backlash arose (for understandable reasons) and, like any company, they are being forced to balance those business decisions against the potential business impact of community outrage.
CCP has no idea where the line is because there IS NO meaningful line and, further, there doesn't need to be. The line is wherever it needs to be, today, to make sure EVE keeps running and CCP stays afloat. For 3 years nobody cared about Somer RMT because 1) the community didn't seem to care much and 2) the specific form of their RMT did not cause any of the traditional issues that RMT can produce in a game. Ergo it makes total business sense that CCP turned a blind eye for as long as that scenario continued. And for GOOD REASONS.
Then a community backlash occurred and CCP responded, as any company must, in order to placate their customer base. This happens all the time in business and is in no way surprising.
Again, it's important to remember that RMT is banned not because it is inherently evil but because of the damage it frequently causes to the game and community (hacked accounts, botting, etc.) You simply cannot say "Somer was doing RMT therefore they are evil" and "CCP ignored Somer doing RMT therefore they are evil (and clueless and stupid and unable to establish a firm boundary)" because RMT ITSELF is not now and never has been the actual problem they are trying to address with an anti-RMT stance in the EULA.
EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1225
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:10:00 -
[1052] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Andski wrote:Man you've really been showcasing mod abilities in this thread: endless quotes per post, images, oh boy It's almost as if there is real forum software buried under here. They just haven't unchecked the [Sucks] box in the config section for us regular users. edit: the IRONY /and divine confirmation.
The images are linked from external sites, i hope they never enable that feature for monkey class users, but i guess it would be fun to datamine ip/browser info and try and match it to users to detects alts and other fun stuff. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Suzie Swindle
Code Enforcement and Compliance Agency
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:11:00 -
[1053] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Suzie Swindle wrote:
Does CCP need to do some internal work to make sure someone doesn't try to pull this type of crap again... yes... but thats internal and they will most likely be doing this now (or I hope so),
You would of though after what happened last time they would have but apparently they haven't.. big surprise...
Going to the vp of sales is abit different then going through a gm, and when someone put up a proposal that says "I wont give any extra isk", well you kind of have to wait for them to actually do this... you cant (or atleast almost none of us can) see what will happen when someone does a 180 on that until they actually...
I thought it was clear after last year with the NO offering incentives to get people to click your link so you can get a kickback... |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2906
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:14:00 -
[1054] - Quote
Suzie Swindle wrote:I am surprised at how many dont seem to understand the difference between CCP letting groups pay people in isk for content to place on their site while making real life money from adds, and that of how somers was using its affiliate status to perform a kickback type deal....
I am willing to bet that a substantial number of these people are not ignorant at all. I'm curious to know what they're actual motivations are, however.
De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
25
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:15:00 -
[1055] - Quote
While there are eyes on the thread, is there any reason that since ETC is dead, long live PLEX happened, we cannot have referral links point directly to the EVE Online Account Management website (similar to how Buddy account referral links work)?
The list of 3rd Party Retailers still has this bit about ETC's
Many of our players subscribe to EVE directly; however, some prefer to pay for their game time using other methods, such as EVE Time Codes. This page lists the websites and services that offer EVE Starter Packs and EVE Time Codes (ETCs). Remember you can also trade ETC with other players or buy PLEX.
but it seems that any of the sites listed has their ETC as 'out of stock' if they continue to list them at all.
What is the limitation preventing this from happening, as a change such as this would surely help to separate some of the grey area back into black and white? |
Prince Kobol
2069
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:15:00 -
[1056] - Quote
Suzie Swindle wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Suzie Swindle wrote:
Does CCP need to do some internal work to make sure someone doesn't try to pull this type of crap again... yes... but thats internal and they will most likely be doing this now (or I hope so),
You would of though after what happened last time they would have but apparently they haven't.. big surprise... Going to the vp of sales is abit different then going through a gm, and when someone put up a proposal that says "I wont give any extra isk", well you kind of have to wait for them to actually do this... you cant (or atleast almost none of us can) see what will happen when someone does a 180 on that...
What I mean is that yet again lack of communication is the root cause to all this drama.
Even Falcon alluded to it before that
"Basically, a breakdown in communication with people not knowing who to contact during the transition of the Community Team's leadership to me, and a few other factors"
It is the same sorry story with CCP and it is getting pretty tiring.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11036
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:27:00 -
[1057] - Quote
dexington wrote:The images are linked from external sites, i hope they never enable that feature for monkey class users, but i guess it would be fun to datamine ip/browser info and try and match it to users to detects alts and other fun stuff.
If that's the primary concern they can simply require images posted on the forums to be hosted on imgur, tinypic, eve-files etc. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:28:00 -
[1058] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:What I mean is that yet again lack of communication is the root cause to all this drama.
Welcome to business reality?
Here's a not-secret; the source of 99% of business drama/issues/problems/failures is a LACK OF COMMUNICATION. Reasonable people (which is all a business is; a lot of individual, reasonable people) when in possession of ALL the facts tend to come to pretty similar, sane, and reasonable conclusions. Ergo, the most likely reason poor decisions happen is because some of the people involved do NOT possess all of the information. The most likely culprit for that? Poor communication.
As a result, every business failure you ever analyse is going to have, at its root, "lack of communication" as a major contributing factor, if not THE primary factor, for that failure to occur.
This will never change, and it will never be fixed. CCP, like every other business on planet Earth, will continue to struggle with internal communication and will occasionally screw up as a result of missing something in this process.
It is in no way indicative of a fault specific to CCP nor does it imply they are somehow a below-average company. In fact, it makes them pretty ordinary and typical. EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
Prince Kobol
2069
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:31:00 -
[1059] - Quote
Garai Nolen wrote:
will continue to struggle with internal communication and will occasionally screw up as a result of missing something in this process.
You need to replace occasionally with constantly |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1226
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:34:00 -
[1060] - Quote
Andski wrote:dexington wrote:The images are linked from external sites, i hope they never enable that feature for monkey class users, but i guess it would be fun to datamine ip/browser info and try and match it to users to detects alts and other fun stuff. If that's the primary concern they can simply require images posted on the forums to be hosted on imgur, tinypic, eve-files etc.
CCP being CCP i guess the primary concern would be the inappropriate visual content, that needs to be removed manually and the work involved in doing so. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
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Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:41:00 -
[1061] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote: Welcome to any company in the world that provides a service. They can change their policies at anytime goons want and for any reason, your EULA/TOS agreement affirms you understand that. The assumption that CCP just decided that goons being mad at Somer was enough to change policy overnight is pretty juvenile in understanding business operations. Goons aren't the best at running a company, but they're doing this by the seat of their pants.
fixed. |
Anslo
Scope Works
7463
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:45:00 -
[1062] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Garai Nolen wrote:
will continue to struggle with internal communication and will occasionally screw up as a result of missing something in this process.
You need to replace occasionally with constantly He's right though. Even at the Federal level we have these kinds of communication issues with subjects far more serious and with dire repercussions should they not be addressed. And we have a metric **** ton of procedures made to prevent communication errors. But they still happen.
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
186
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:46:00 -
[1063] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote: Welcome to any company in the world that provides a service. They can change their policies at anytime goons want and for any reason, your EULA/TOS agreement affirms you understand that. The assumption that CCP just decided that goons being mad at Somer was enough to change policy overnight is pretty juvenile in understanding business operations. Goons aren't the best at running a company, but they're doing this by the seat of their pants.
fixed.
You sound incredibly butthurt over Goons. How many space pixels did they blow up that belonged to you? LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11039
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:46:00 -
[1064] - Quote
Goonspiracy Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
290
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:49:00 -
[1065] - Quote
I have been unable to speak to a goon for months. I can't stand the smell of CCP shite on their breaths |
Prince Kobol
2069
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:05:00 -
[1066] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Garai Nolen wrote:
will continue to struggle with internal communication and will occasionally screw up as a result of missing something in this process.
You need to replace occasionally with constantly He's right though. Even at the Federal level we have these kinds of communication issues with subjects far more serious and with dire repercussions should they not be addressed. And we have a metric **** ton of procedures made to prevent communication errors. But they still happen.
I am not arguing that its not a common problem, but that doesn't I have to accept it.
Every time something like this happens its "we need to be better at communication" and nothing happens.
When ever CCP want to introduce a new mechanic and we as p[players tell them that its really stupid and will be exploited they don't listen and what happens, it gets exploited.
How many times are CCP going to do something like this, give the excuse that it was down to poor communication and then nothing changes. |
Anslo
Scope Works
7481
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:09:00 -
[1067] - Quote
Honestly, this seems less communication and more contract language related. I bet their legal team missed something in the terms of the agreement between CCP and SOMER and SOMER silently exploited the loop hole.
CCP's communication issues are actually better as evidenced by Falcon being on top of update provisions for the community. After business agreements like with CCP and SOMER, there isn't some constant checking up on communication that's normally done. The contract technically does the communicating, if that makes sense.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
149
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:12:00 -
[1068] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote: Welcome to any company in the world that provides a service. They can change their policies at anytime goons want and for any reason, your EULA/TOS agreement affirms you understand that. The assumption that CCP just decided that goons being mad at Somer was enough to change policy overnight is pretty juvenile in understanding business operations. Goons aren't the best at running a company, but they're doing this by the seat of their pants.
fixed.
If we were running the company, I promise, nullsec would be a lot less stagnant, and a lot more accessible. |
Prince Kobol
2070
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:16:00 -
[1069] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Honestly, this seems less communication and more contract language related. I bet their legal team missed something in the terms of the agreement between CCP and SOMER and SOMER silently exploited the loop hole.
CCP's communication issues are actually better as evidenced by Falcon being on top of update provisions for the community. After business agreements like with CCP and SOMER, there isn't some constant checking up on communication that's normally done. The contract technically does the communicating, if that makes sense.
Look, I know you are trying to defend CCP, but even Falcon said himself this was down to a communication problem. Apparently who ever was not able to find out who was on the Community Team, I guess people don't like talking to each other in Iceland
Also Falcon said himself he only found out because the CSM alerted CCP to the problem.
No matter which way you swing it, this was a mess which should of never of happened but CCP being CCP I am willing bet anything that in another few months we will be talking about CCP's lack of communication after another screw up |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3400
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:34:00 -
[1070] - Quote
I am curious what percentage of plex sales went through the Somer-Blink website, and what kind of impact this will have on sales of plexes.
I imagine the goon Pravda site will pick up some slack, but Markee Dragon (or however you spell his name), must be scrambling today. |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11237
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:35:00 -
[1071] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:"This medic has saved hundreds of lives. We should definitely overlook the fact that he beats his wife." Jonah Gravenstein wrote:He's getting hammered because he attempted to circumvent the rules regarding the monetisation of CCPs intellectual property.
His charitable donations do not excuse that, just as they didn't excuse Bernie Madhoff when he got clobbered for running a huge Ponzi and ripping people off for their pensions. While RMT is bad, I'm not sure it rates on the scale of wife-beating and stealing pensions. Nobody suggested anything about scale. It's just an analogy. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5845
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:45:00 -
[1072] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I am curious what percentage of plex sales went through the Somer-Blink website, and what kind of impact this will have on sales of plexes.
I imagine the goon Pravda site will pick up some slack, but Markee Dragon (or however you spell his name), must be scrambling today.
Markee has his fingers in a lot of pies. I doubt he's scrambling over losing an affiliate that likely gave him much less than 1% of his total sales.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
711
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:57:00 -
[1073] - Quote
dexington wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Andski wrote:Man you've really been showcasing mod abilities in this thread: endless quotes per post, images, oh boy It's almost as if there is real forum software buried under here. They just haven't unchecked the [Sucks] box in the config section for us regular users. edit: the IRONY /and divine confirmation. The images are linked from external sites, i hope they never enable that feature for monkey class users, but i guess it would be fun to datamine ip/browser info and try and match it to users to detects alts and other fun stuff. you're half a decade too late on that idea heh |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15741
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:12:00 -
[1074] - Quote
Andski wrote:Here's a rough timeline of events:
- Somerset Mahm proposes a PLEX referral incentive model to CCP for approval. It is approved and he later implements a referral incentive, creating a buyback program for PLEX purchased through his referral link at above market prices.
- Somebody discovered that SOMERblink has created a new incentive to buy PLEX via their referral link. This was posted to Reddit, discussed there and it made its way to the forums.
- The discussions about this catch the attention of the CSM, and it makes its way to the desk of CCP Falcon, CCP's community coordinator, who mentions that he was surprised by this and unaware.
- SOMERblink is asked to put this promotion on hold for the meantime. They do so, and publish private correspondence with CCP's VP of Sales, along with the document they presented to her proposing their new incentive model.
- Players who read this document realize that the proposal was undoubtedly written with the intention of deceiving the reader into believing that there would be the incentive was not based on ISK or assets.
- CCP's conclusion is that the incentive implemented by SOMER was not what they approved. In response, SOMERblink shuts down indefinitely and refunds outstanding deposits.
So who acted in bad faith? CCP, by approving an ambiguously worded proposal and then deciding that what was implemented was not what they approved, or Somer, by writing an ambiguously worded proposal, deceiving CCP and essentially implementing a similar referral incentive to what CCP previously made him discontinue?
there are missing points of data on this timeline.. I'd like to know when each significant component of the Markee Dragon <-> ETC <-> SOMER kickback scheme appeared.
that affiliate is exclusive to Somer's ETC buy price deal, a I'm exploring the possibility that it occurred along the way (rather than being a diabolical plan all along.)
Things like: when were the referral kickback terms hammered out between Somer and MD/ Marcus Ikenffeffer
when did Somer begin buying ETCs from players at the 'best price in New Eden' deal price
and the big question: when did SOMER make the referrals from MD mandatory on his end / and announce that he would refuse ETCs acquired elsewhere.
I'm working on the assumption that the plan SOMER gave to CCP was his honest plan. perhaps something changed along the way, for database reasons / convenience / undercutters who might dump their stock onto SOMER for personal gain / whatever... what I'm trying to pointpoint (if there is one), is an event(s) or decision(s) that altered the original un-biased scope of SOMER's ETC purchase offer (from everyone to only those purchased from MD).
justifiably or not.
if it turns out the MD <-> ETC <-> SOMER thing was always the plan, there are still possible, practical, understandable reasons why the source of the ETC needed verification. It's possible the arrangement with MD wasn't merely a good o'l boy agreement--it could be a more significant business pact between MD and SOMER, all due to SOMER's altruistic ETC purchase deal.
if SOMER declares himself an instant 110% ETC dumping point, it would look very appealing to ETC resellers who received their stock at wholesale prices... to use alts and redeem their ETC to SOMER, effectively netting a double profit with no middle-man (a player) ...albeit in ISK. 12xPLEX worth of ISK, after turning in a 10 pack of PLEX (5xETC) which were purchased from CCP for a reduced rate, perhaps 70% value
the ETC reseller can potentially take their wholesale stack of 5 ETC (purchased at a reduced price because authorized reselller, trade with good guy SOMER, and end up with 12 PLEXs' value in ISK... as often as he refilled his stack of ETC from CCP.
with this pact between SOMER and MD, MD could keep his prices high, knowing that SOMER customers have no choice but to pay it, because he is the only ETC re-seller endorsed by SOMER, and SOMER's plan to entice players to buy PLEX with ISK -works-. other ETC re-sellers can do whatever they want with their prices to out-compete each other, but doing so affects only their bottom line, not MD.
Think about it. ETC sellers have a stock from CCP and as wholesalers they received a discounted price on that ETC stock, because affiliate. If SOMER's offer was open to ALL ETC holders regardless of source, any ETC re-seller could take their ETC (which they purchased at below market price, to resell and profit), and sell it to SOMER for a margin over what they stood to make by selling it to a player.
When MD's prices are able to maintain healthy profitable resale prices due to his pact with SOMER, that leaves a healthy profit from his ETC sales. when the benefit is mutual (MD agrees to not redeem his own ETC to SOMER for the deal), and MD is grateful to SOMER for effectinvely 'niche'ing his store, perhaps a kickback is in order, as a matter of 'hey thanks for keeping my family fed and my bills paid, I wish I could do something for you, but I'm afraid of awakening the pitchfork regiment--what can I do to repay you for the market stability you provide me?
ISK? ETC? PLEX? something to balance the books in this arragnement .. what do you think? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15741
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:25:00 -
[1075] - Quote
broken post. redoing. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Cherry Yeyo
68
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:26:00 -
[1076] - Quote
I think if CCP stood up and said: "Yo, its gonna cost some PLEX sales but Markee Dragon and Somer have caused us nothing but problems and slippery slopes for years now so we're gonna end that relationship" all the community would cheer. CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3687
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:26:00 -
[1077] - Quote
Becoming a Markee Dragon affiliate isn't a hard thing. There were likely further negotiations, because of volume. http://store.markeedragon.com/affiliate/signupform.php
As for the rest:
Why would an Plex code seller (no ETCs any more) want to convert plex to ISK? That's spending real money, and getting virtual money which they can't use to buy more plex codes? This isn't one or two plex. This is hundreds.
They don't sell plex. They sell codes which can become plex. Plex are useless to them.
Also, the moment that you would allow someone to cycle plex to isk, at a higher than market rate, without any other limitation, you open yourself up to someone buying plex with isk, selling to you for more isk, buying plex with some of that isk, then repeating. So it was always going to be tied to a reseller.
Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3687
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:28:00 -
[1078] - Quote
bah. double. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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CCP Falcon
8242
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:30:00 -
[1079] - Quote
A response by CCP has been posted here.
Please use that thread for further discussion, this one will be locked now.
Cheers,
- F CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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