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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Rattman
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
25
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
So much sucking up in one thread.
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Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
104
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
First off. Thank you to the CSM and CCP for a quick response to this.
I think the quote below needs to be clarified by CCP.
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
And if it means some long standing and/or popular institutions go away then so be it. Specifically "and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities." Define income. In game? OUt of game real life?
IMO this is where things start to get murky. A Photoshop wizard creating a piece of art in exchange for isk for someone to use on their blog header, killboard, or other site intended to display information about Eve isn't a problem. When people expressly create a website to purposely make real life money and circle jerk it in a roundabout way involving in game currency and/or assets it's stepping over the line. To be endorsed by CCP is ridiculous.
It's been 10 yrs plus. Do you not know your player base yet, CCP? It's time to define this kind of crap. If certain sites disappear, then so be it. This kind of crap always surfaces when null suck takes a dive and there's no new player acquiring battles, etc... happening to attract newbies. This stuff makes headlines and headlines draw people to Eve. But this kind of nonsense is beneath what I would consider CCP to be, which is a professional game creating company. Sew up these stinking loopholes so scum bags stop ripping people off in game with what is classified a real life addiction, gambling, only to make real life income for their own lazy asses. There is nothing legitimate here. If Somer wants to sell Plex then let them become an authorized Plex seller like Eve Radio, Eve Game TIme Codes, etc... Otherwise, this smells like a modern day T20 scandal all over again. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5811
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason.
If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3423
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen
Read up more on Somer's setup.
There's no question that this is RMT ISK selling in disguise.
Which is very different to the (officially tolerated) RMT ISK buying in disguise cycle seen in killboard hostings of "I create EVE-based RL services, possibly costing RL money and trade them to you for in-game ISK".
CCP's stated policies are very different toward RMT sellers and RMT buyers. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15705
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
do your part and shoot the jita monument. chainkilling Incursion MOMs is reserved. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
606
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Posted - 2014.08.19 01:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Two step wrote:Is there a reason you have not asked Somerblink to stop offering their bonus while this is being looked into? Or have you asked them and they have declined?
I hate to do this cause I still owe him a beer and he hates me . But this is something that has to happen. That will make this delay on a answer, put an end to the trolling.
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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
851
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Posted - 2014.08.19 01:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys,
Apologies for the delay in putting out a notification, IGÇÖve just arrived home from the office after a bit of a busy day talking to various departments to get a handle on how and whatGÇÖs been going on with this situation.
This issue was first brought to the attention of the Community Team by the CSM around 24 hours ago after concern was raised by members of the community regarding the promotion thatGÇÖs currently going on over at SOMERblink.
Myself and CCP Leeloo has been sat with various groups within CCP today and have been in constant contact with the CSM throughout the day to discuss the concerns of the community and make sure that some form of resolution is reached. TheyGÇÖve been very clear, direct and unified with their opinion on the situation, and this is a sentiment that I share with them.
This thread will serve as a place where weGÇÖll be updating you guys on whatGÇÖs going on with this to make sure that thereGÇÖs a central place for information, because itGÇÖs quite clear that this is an issue that the community is taking seriously. ItGÇÖs also something I feel incredibly strongly about.
At this point in time, weGÇÖre investigating exactly whatGÇÖs going on with the whole situation, and IGÇÖve been in contact with our Legal department, Sales and our Information Security team with a view to having this looked into and resolved.
Given the sheer size of the investigation that weGÇÖll be undertaking, this is going to take some time, as a lot of ISK and assets have changed hands. While some temporary action has been taken in order to keep a handle on the situation, any outcome of an investigation is still to be determined, and I canGÇÖt give any further information regarding the process while itGÇÖs ongoing.
ThereGÇÖs not a great deal more that IGÇÖll be able to give you guys tonight, but please be aware, and rest assured, that you will not be stonewalled over this, and within reason the Community Team will be letting you guys know exactly whatGÇÖs going on as and when we can release more information.
IGÇÖm hoping to have more on this for you guys tomorrow as we look into this further, but for now, this is just to let you all know that your voices have been heard, weGÇÖre actively looking at the situation, and will feed back as soon as we have more information that we can share.
We'll be locking all the other threads that are discussing this, and diverting them here to keep feedback concise and centralized in one place, so please feel free to use this thread to talk about the issue openly.
Just remember to keep it civil and within the forum rules, which also means no discussion of warnings and bans.
Thanks for your patience,
- F
Holy crap, I don't think I've ever seen you make a post this vague. Investigation, right, okay. But there's one simple question I think everyone here would like to have an answer on which you should (??) have ready since it's a simple shout around the office me thinks.
Did CCP or did CCP not give SOMER permission to start this incentive bullshit up again? Just a yes or no answer to that question would please (or not ) a great deal of people. What happens with an investigation is fun reading material for a later date. Though if you guys are really going to dig into this, I have a perfectly good idea where you'll eventually trace all the money to *coughmarkeedragoncough!*
And I'm sure you guys realize this, but coming out and saying 'we are re-allowing this now' officially is going to cause a shitstorm the size of which you have not seen... in the past week. Better reinforce that Jita monument if that's the case. But I trust you to make the right decision. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.08.19 01:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen
which kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets will give me isk in game in exchange for buying a plex through them? |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
411
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility.
I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far. www.crossingzebras.com |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4210
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far.
This. I don't care one way or the other about Somer Blink, and if they are found to be in breach of the EULA on something, anything, be it RMT or otherwise, then I stand firmly behind the appropriate measures of dealing with that breach. What I am not behind is a verdict without a 'trial'. People jumping on the "Grr Somer" bandwagon are not helping the process. Because if they are not found to be in breach of the EULA then the "Grr Somer" crowd, already emotionally invested in seeing Somer taken down, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong, are going to be disappointed. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
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Grainsalt
6-10s Northern Associates.
204
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Posted - 2014.08.19 01:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
The only question that needs an immediate answer is, did CCP give SOMER permission to run this promo as SOMER advertised? I think we will find Jimmy Hoffa's body before we get an answer. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4210
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tam Arai wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen which kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets will give me isk in game in exchange for buying a plex through them?
I'm not seeing the problem, or the 'RMT' in this aside from the 'RMT' that takes place daily every time someone buys PLEX for real money and sells it for isk, regardless of the vendor. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
265
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 01:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far. This. I don't care one way or the other about Somer Blink, and if they are found to be in breach of the EULA on something, anything, be it RMT or otherwise, then I stand firmly behind the appropriate measures of dealing with that breach. What I am not behind is a verdict without a 'trial'. People jumping on the "Grr Somer" bandwagon are not helping the process. Because if they are not found to be in breach of the EULA then the "Grr Somer" crowd, already emotionally invested in seeing Somer taken down, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong, are going to be disappointed.
So I just want to make my position clear: If the investigation is on-going, it's fine and understandable. Action against people will result in problems, like the media releasing the name of the Sandy Hook shooter's brother and blaming him.
What I refer to is that after investigations like this is over, CCP ends up stating "Actions have been taken". I want to know what actions have been taken, what will be change, and who was the player who is being involved due to his/her actions going against the EULA.
I don't know, maybe I just like having and am use to having access to this type of data publicly in real life. |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo have been very open to our questions and the questions that we have brought forward from the community starting from last night. I've recently been asked about accounts used for businesses and what account usage qualifies as a business reference this part of the EULA: Quote:"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
Does this mean guys like TheMittani are in trouble too? That guy pays his freelance writers in isk and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. |
Xeleonn
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Grainsalt wrote:The only question that needs an immediate answer is, did CCP give SOMER permission to run this promo as SOMER advertised? I think we will find Jimmy Hoffa's body before we get an answer.
The blink GTC page has been updated with a link to text file of emails between Somer and CCP http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt Which seems to show that approval was given by at least someone at CCP. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11113
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:That guy pays his freelance writers in isk Which is allowed
Ohkewl wrote:and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is. That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3810
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
csm are great, appreciations |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23950
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:Major JSilva wrote:Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far. This. I don't care one way or the other about Somer Blink, and if they are found to be in breach of the EULA on something, anything, be it RMT or otherwise, then I stand firmly behind the appropriate measures of dealing with that breach. What I am not behind is a verdict without a 'trial'. People jumping on the "Grr Somer" bandwagon are not helping the process. Because if they are not found to be in breach of the EULA then the "Grr Somer" crowd, already emotionally invested in seeing Somer taken down, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong, are going to be disappointed. Those.
Very nice to see that something is underway. It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds over the coming days. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11113
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:49:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. And here come the posts of the critical thought deficient. TMC has run two articles on the Somer Blink scandal, both written by Goons, one of whom is a director and also a sitting member of the CSM. Mittens himself made reference to it in his latest Mitten's Mailbox piece.
Mr Epeen wrote:If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT Nobody is arguing that any income is RMT. They're arguing that this specific scheme is RMT because it boils down to the same thing - they get money, in exchange for giving you isk.
Mr Epeen wrote:say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Which has absolutely nothing to do with this.
Mr Epeen wrote:Mr Epeen I'm beginning to wonder if you're too dumb to find your own posts unless you sign them. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 02:56:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason. If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it. Mr Epeen Read up more on Somer's setup. There's no question that this is RMT ISK selling in disguise. Which is very different to the (officially tolerated) RMT ISK buying in disguise cycle seen in killboard hostings of "I create EVE-based RL services, possibly costing RL money and trade them to you for in-game ISK". CCP's stated policies are very different toward RMT sellers and RMT buyers.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11115
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
And to all of you saying that "if CCP says it's okay, then it's fine with me" I don't think you realize just how badly this can be gamed.
Luckily the CFC will be more than happy to show you, if it comes to that. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
147
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:When we contacted CCP it was about 2am their time and we got immediate responses from CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo. CCP Falcon is now going to bed 22 hours later. I toss that out there for the people who will wonder why questions will not be answered until tomorrow. This is why, of all games I have ever played, I continue to play EVE Online. Greatest community support on the planet. Sitting on the edge of my seat to see what happens! TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items |
Killdeer Okel
Red Ochre Mining and Exploration Fatal Ascension
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
He has currently suspended the program due to contact with CCP.
https://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc
He linked his proposal as well: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf
Interesting to not the following statements from it:
"Blink will buy the PLEX from you at a published rate that is the same for all ETC buyers"
"Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link."
"We publish a price available to anyone: "Blink will buy your PLEX for ____ ISK!" "
A legal department should have caught the obfuscation with the wording. Obviously whoever approved it did not. |
TheMasterSenor
Modulated Dreams Circle-Of-Two
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
Nadine Jones wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74632 Quote:Any involvement in RMT is a permanent ban on first offense With this already being the second I'd think there is little to discuss in terms of consequences?
+1 |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
690
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Killdeer Okel wrote:He has currently suspended the program due to contact with CCP. https://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtcHe linked his proposal as well: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtfInteresting to not the following statements from it: "Blink will buy the PLEX from you at a published rate that is the same for all ETC buyers" "Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link." "We publish a price available to anyone: "Blink will buy your PLEX for ____ ISK!" " A legal department should have caught the obfuscation with the wording. Obviously whoever approved it did not. man how did they not catch that |
Marsan
246
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:Major JSilva wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment. Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility. I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far.
Yea I'm gonna call B$ on the idea of CCP and any sort of transparency. They are are in CYA mode. Sure they are "investigating the issue", but also they are hoping to do the following:
1) Tell us don't worry we are doing a through investigation.
2) Look into it.
3) Figure out how to spin this in the best light.
We aren't ever going to get significant details just a spoon-fed sanitized version of events.
PS- Also "they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it". How is that transparent? You guys are under an NDA which by NDA I'm not ever allowed to see.
PPS- That said I'm still not entirely sure why people are surprised, and so upset. Personally I'd rather have Somer doing RMT than the average isk for $$$ site. As long as there are people with a lot isk there are going to be people who will want to convert it to cash.... Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
690
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
the last line of the proposal gives away what hes planning too, that he'll overpay
the no bonus clause is intended to snooker the reader into not noticing its limited to only not paying directly for the buy, so you wont notice you agreed to let him overpay for the plex itself
clever but obviously intended to deceive whoever signed off on it |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11118
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:the last line of the proposal gives away what hes planning too, that he'll overpay
the no bonus clause is intended to snooker the reader into not noticing its limited to only not paying directly for the buy, so you wont notice you agreed to let him overpay for the plex itself
clever but obviously intended to deceive whoever signed off on it This is looking even more sinister by the minute. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Xeleonn
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
I don't think there's any deception here, The first step of the Workflow contains the message that they intended to use on the service, stating that they intend to give 'the best' price.
'1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"'
Edit: After thinking about it, there is enough ambiguity there to cause confusion as to whether they intend to provide 'the best price' inline with current Buy Orders, or Sell orders, or something more. |
Killdeer Okel
Red Ochre Mining and Exploration Fatal Ascension
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 03:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
In the end, If this "Lisa" from CCP approved it, which looks possible, then the program will go away, but there will be a slap on the wrist as CCP will need to take the fall for the deception. I guess CCP is no better than a Newbie in Jita. They need more practice watching the scams that are run in the game. |
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