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I've never played a game that cators to grief play as much as this one

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:02:00 - [271] Originally by: Bhaal Carebears get ZERO free rides in low sec & 0.0, criminals should get ZERO free rides in empire... In WoW, this is fine. In EVE, we don't believe in a game for carebears. K?
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:04:00 - [272] Originally by: Dee Ellis Originally by: Bhaal Carebears get ZERO free rides in low sec & 0.0, criminals should get ZERO free rides in empire... In WoW, this is fine. In EVE, we don't believe in a game for carebears. K? No, it's not K you retard... Hence the whole reason for the thread, idiot. If it was ok, we wouldn't be discussing this... Bottom line is, there is a problem, and PK'ers are afraid if the problem is solved, the game will become harder for them... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:07:00 - [273] Originally by: Bhaal So why is it that the suicide ganker only has to use a calculator to figure out his profits, then F1, F2, F3... Which is still more effort than most of these people hauling make. If the haulers made more effort, this kind of piracy would not be profitable. Originally by: Bhaal You guys make no sense, talk about free rides! Its not hard to understand. People in haulers = take more responsibility = less profitable piracy. Instead of advocating the lazy man's solution to lazy man's pirating which is "wah, wah CCP fix this" encourage people to act maturely, take some responsibilty and fit a ship sensibly instead of expecting the world to molly coddle them. Originally by: Bhaal I sure wish I could steal in front of the cops after my buddy whacked a guy and just walk away, all the while talking about how much of an ass that guy was for driving down the street without a military escort This example only makes sense if the police arrive instantly and blow you and your buddies weapons/car/whatever away. But they don't. Originally by: Bhaal Carebears get ZERO free rides in low sec & 0.0, criminals should get ZERO free rides in empire... If a carebear makes no effort to plan a trip through low sec or 0.0, then yeah, they're gonna die. But if a pirate makes then modicum of effort to go blow some idiots away at the Jita gate, then fair enough. If players make it easy for these people to pirate then they will (and should) continue to do so. Two options. 1) Whine and expect CCP to fix stuff. 2) Stop yer whining, fit ships properly or fly tougher ships and don't make it worth the pirates time. I see what you're saying Bhaal and it makes ALOT of sense, but frankly it goes strongly against the grain of getting people to take some goddam responsibility for themselves. I'm sorry, but we're living in a world where people increasingly whine and expect others to solve their problems for them instead of solving them theirselves. This is a problem players can solve and so they should get on with it.
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:07:00 - [274] Originally by: Osia You are right in that blockade runners and deep space transports are present and available in the game. However, does anyone else find it odd that ships that seem intended for use in ôdeep spaceö and the more hostile portions of the EVE universe are needed more often in high security portions of that same universe? er, no, it's not odd at all. On my planet even in the middle of the safest cities they use vehicles called "armored cars" to transport large amounts of the local currency.
PanzerGrenadier Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:09:00 - [275] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg This is either a trollpost or you are downright insane. Who moves all their stuff in a T1 hauler after having 2 years worth of skillpoints ? QFT.
Amphira The Golden Goose	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:17:00 - [276] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Dee Ellis Originally by: Bhaal Carebears get ZERO free rides in low sec & 0.0, criminals should get ZERO free rides in empire... In WoW, this is fine. In EVE, we don't believe in a game for carebears. K? No, it's not K you retard... Hence the whole reason for the thread, idiot. If it was ok, we wouldn't be discussing this... Bottom line is, there is a problem, and PK'ers are afraid if the problem is solved, the game will become harder for them... Originally by: Forum Rules Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts which are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing an "in character" dispute become an "out of character" personal attack. The game is designed for role playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum, please, unless it is clearly a mutual, in character exchange. Cool down, eh?
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:20:00 - [277] Edited by: Bhaal on 07/11/2006 20:21:21 Quote: I see what you're saying Bhaal and it makes ALOT of sense, but frankly it goes strongly against the grain of getting people to take some goddam responsibility for themselves. I'm sorry, but we're living in a world where people increasingly whine and expect others to solve their problems for them instead of solving them theirselves. This is a problem players can solve and so they should get on with it. It does not change the fact the criminals are getting away with this too easily, and there are game mechanic issues. Carebears not equipping their ship is not a game mechanic flaw, getting insurance for a ship blown up by Concord is. Being able to loot a can in front of Concord, who just blew up the ship that forced the drop of said can, is a game mechanic flaw. Carebears can loose ships all they want like this, but not in high sec empire, not at the current frequency... Make this a once a week or month occurrence by a great group of pirates, not something that happens 10's of times a day... It's too prevalent, PvP in high sec empire should require more effort than this. Pirates in low sec need to put in little effort, while carbears need to put in a lot. The opposite should be true in high sec. That's the point of the **** sec system... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
DefJam101 Gallente Praxiteles Inc. E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:21:00 - [278] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Dee Ellis Originally by: Bhaal Carebears get ZERO free rides in low sec & 0.0, criminals should get ZERO free rides in empire... In WoW, this is fine. In EVE, we don't believe in a game for carebears. K? No, it's not K you retard... Hence the whole reason for the thread, idiot. If it was ok, we wouldn't be discussing this... Bottom line is, there is a problem, and PK'ers are afraid if the problem is solved, the game will become harder for them... Shut the hell up pirates and PvPers have life a lot harder and more unfair than you just to be able to play the way we want. We can be attacked anywhere. We are ALWAYS getting ganked by an opposing force much greater than our own. The even matched run from us where the overpowered attack. You just fly around and whine where respectful PvPers keep their mouths shut and let you play the way you want. No offense... ***
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:22:00 - [279] Originally by: Bhaal *snip - Such words.. Bottom line is, there is a problem, and PK'ers are afraid if the problem is solved, the game will become harder for them... We ain't got no problem unless CCP says we do And they clearly state we DON'T have a problem, but you skillfully dodged that post didn't you.
Osia Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:23:00 - [280] Sendraks, I see your posts and I simply must ask do you, or anyone else for that matter, believe that it is right that Tech II haulers are required to transport goods in empire space? Short of the rather whimsical suggestion of a friend or alt standing by to scoop your cargo in the event of suicide attack that seems to be what you are suggesting. Radioactive Babe has a good point in that a suicide attacker is getting a free ride in the current situation. They get an insurance payout which covers their ship in full. They get whatever loot that dropped from their victim assuming their alt is standing by, and they get to do it all over again in just a few minutes. As it stands I fly transports and blockade runners. To date I have had to tank damage from more cruisers and battleships in high security space than I ever encounter in low security or 0.0 regions. This fact combined with the reality that I don't operate near the major hotbeds for these activities like Jita tells me there might be a problem here. Whats more this activity is so low risk for the reward that ultimately there is no defense. There is a limit to the tanking abilities of even a Tech II industrial ship. There is no limit to the number of battleships that an assailant can bring to bear. Since they will get insurance that covers over 95% of their ship with fittings, I don't have to be carrying much to cover the little loss they might incur and still generate a profit. Adjustments might need to be made to the current set of mechanics. Though I do not share all of Bhaal's opinions on the subject he appears to be on the right track. Something needs to be done to discourage this behavior. I wouldn't advocate prohibiting it, but removing some of its appeal and consequence free nature is warranted and seems reasonable. --- Logistics XO, Astrum Contract Services Group

Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:26:00 - [281] Originally by: DefJam101 Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Dee Ellis Originally by: Bhaal Carebears get ZERO free rides in low sec & 0.0, criminals should get ZERO free rides in empire... In WoW, this is fine. In EVE, we don't believe in a game for carebears. K? No, it's not K you retard... Hence the whole reason for the thread, idiot. If it was ok, we wouldn't be discussing this... Bottom line is, there is a problem, and PK'ers are afraid if the problem is solved, the game will become harder for them... Shut the hell up pirates and PvPers have life a lot harder and more unfair than you just to be able to play the way we want. We can be attacked anywhere. We are ALWAYS getting ganked by an opposing force much greater than our own. The even matched run from us where the overpowered attack. You just fly around and whine where respectful PvPers keep their mouths shut and let you play the way you want. No offense... What are you on about, I'm attacked anywhere and everywhere I go, but by other alliances & corp war targets, how is that different? At least I don't try to cheat the **** game at every turn and fire at targets who are 100% guranteed to not fire back... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:28:00 - [282] Edited by: Bhaal on 07/11/2006 20:28:24 Originally by: Dee Ellis Originally by: Bhaal *snip - Such words.. Bottom line is, there is a problem, and PK'ers are afraid if the problem is solved, the game will become harder for them... We ain't got no problem unless CCP says we do And they clearly state we DON'T have a problem, but you skillfully dodged that post didn't you. How long have you played? How many griefing tactics did CCP openly say were an exploit months or years b4 they removed it from the game? A small percentage. You know the deal, they take their sweet old time. This is to a problem, and I'm sure the DEV's at least talk about it, doesn't mean they have to tell us... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:28:00 - [283] Originally by: Bhaal At least I don't try to cheat the **** game at every turn and fire at targets who are 100% guranteed to not fire back... but but but ... that is the pretty side of EvE, is not it? No rules except you do not force someone to quit the game. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Alowishus Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:29:00 - [284] I think some of you should quit Eve and play a different game. You don't join a basketball game and complain when it's not football, do you?
Ki An Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:29:00 - [285] Originally by: Osia Sendraks, I see your posts and I simply must ask do you, or anyone else for that matter, believe that it is right that Tech II haulers are required to transport goods in empire space? Short of the rather whimsical suggestion of a friend or alt standing by to scoop your cargo in the event of suicide attack that seems to be what you are suggesting. Radioactive Babe has a good point in that a suicide attacker is getting a free ride in the current situation. They get an insurance payout which covers their ship in full. They get whatever loot that dropped from their victim assuming their alt is standing by, and they get to do it all over again in just a few minutes. As it stands I fly transports and blockade runners. To date I have had to tank damage from more cruisers and battleships in high security space than I ever encounter in low security or 0.0 regions. This fact combined with the reality that I don't operate near the major hotbeds for these activities like Jita tells me there might be a problem here. Whats more this activity is so low risk for the reward that ultimately there is no defense. There is a limit to the tanking abilities of even a Tech II industrial ship. There is no limit to the number of battleships that an assailant can bring to bear. Since they will get insurance that covers over 95% of their ship with fittings, I don't have to be carrying much to cover the little loss they might incur and still generate a profit. Adjustments might need to be made to the current set of mechanics. Though I do not share all of Bhaal's opinions on the subject he appears to be on the right track. Something needs to be done to discourage this behavior. I wouldn't advocate prohibiting it, but removing some of its appeal and consequence free nature is warranted and seems reasonable. T2 haulers are not "required" per se. However, if you plan to carry so much cargo as to make suiciding you actually worth while (Simple maths really. Just figure the value of the total amount of ships required to one-volley your ship, subtract insurance payout for those ships, multiply by two to take account of stuff blowing up and you have a nice figure to keep under) you are better off by ferrying it in a tough, tanked ship (think armored car). /Ki
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:30:00 - [286] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Bhaal At least I don't try to cheat the **** game at every turn and fire at targets who are 100% guranteed to not fire back... but but but ... that is the pretty side of EvE, is not it? No rules except you do not force someone to quit the game. No rules until CCP decides you're breaking them... You have been around long enough to know CCP changes the rules as time goes on. You'd rather have all this blatant suicide PK'ing going on instead of more PvP'ers in 0.0? I don't think CCP does either... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:32:00 - [287] Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 07/11/2006 20:28:24 Originally by: Dee Ellis Originally by: Bhaal *snip - Such words.. Bottom line is, there is a problem, and PK'ers are afraid if the problem is solved, the game will become harder for them... We ain't got no problem unless CCP says we do And they clearly state we DON'T have a problem, but you skillfully dodged that post didn't you. How long have you played? How many griefing tactics did CCP openly say were an exploit months or years b4 they removed it from the game? A small percentage. You know the deal, they take their sweet old time. This is to a problem, and I'm sure the DEV's at least talk about it, doesn't mean they have to tell us... "The players are shooting at eachother!" "WHAT?! Not in a fair fight between two people I hope?" "Yes! And one of them doesn't want to be killed!" "But isn't Concord doing anything?" "Hmm, let's see... They're killing the attacker!" "We gotta do something! To the nerfmobile!" Yes.. I'm sure they're troubled..
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:34:00 - [288] Originally by: Alowishus I think some of you should quit Eve and play a different game. You don't join a basketball game and complain when it's not football, do you? So are the rules the same today, as when basketball was first invented? Did they add more rules/fouls over the years, to promote better play out of the athletes as opposed to cheating street ball players? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:35:00 - [289] Quote: "The players are shooting at eachother!" "eachother" You just busted your own argument... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:37:00 - [290] Edited by: Dee Ellis on 07/11/2006 20:38:15 Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Alowishus I think some of you should quit Eve and play a different game. You don't join a basketball game and complain when it's not football, do you? So are the rules the same today, as when basketball was first invented? Did they add more rules/fouls over the years, to promote better play out of the athletes as opposed to cheating street ball players? Streetball players aren't cheating, they're playing inside their rules And, last time I checked the modern basketball was invented in 1891 and hasn't had many changes seen in the fouls part since due to it being a "Gentlemens sport" Tssk Edit: Originally by: Bhaal Quote: "The players are shooting at eachother!" "eachother" You just busted your own argument... It's not my fault the knitwits aren't trying to defend themselves, now is it?

Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:37:00 - [291] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Bhaal At least I don't try to cheat the **** game at every turn and fire at targets who are 100% guranteed to not fire back... but but but ... that is the pretty side of EvE, is not it? No rules except you do not force someone to quit the game. No rules until CCP decides you're breaking them... You have been around long enough to know CCP changes the rules as time goes on. You'd rather have all this blatant suicide PK'ing going on instead of more PvP'ers in 0.0? I don't think CCP does either... It is the player own responsibility to protect ownself. If you want to wear diamond neckless, diamond chain, prada handbag and flash them around in the city and not expecting to be mugged, you must be kidding. City is safer but not 100% than some sub-urb alleys. If high secs are supposed to be safe, CCP can remove activation of hostile mods in high secs unless you are at war. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
IlIlIIlIlIlIlIIllIIllIlI	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:43:00 - [292] Cry more noob? 10 pages and not one person has said it.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:44:00 - [293] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Bhaal At least I don't try to cheat the **** game at every turn and fire at targets who are 100% guranteed to not fire back... but but but ... that is the pretty side of EvE, is not it? No rules except you do not force someone to quit the game. No rules until CCP decides you're breaking them... You have been around long enough to know CCP changes the rules as time goes on. You'd rather have all this blatant suicide PK'ing going on instead of more PvP'ers in 0.0? I don't think CCP does either... It is the player own responsibility to protect ownself. If you want to wear diamond neckless, diamond chain, prada handbag and flash them around in the city and not expecting to be mugged, you must be kidding. City is safer but not 100% than some sub-urb alleys. If high secs are supposed to be safe, CCP can remove activation of hostile mods in high secs unless you are at war. Does not have to be 100%, but cops don't allow criminals to loiter outside the doors of a store in broad daylight mugging ppl like Concord allows at the gates Jita... Maybe in your neighborhood, but certainly not mine... The suicide concept can stay, the rate at which it occurs due to lack of deterrents is not ok. CCP needs to make it a whole lot harder to do, they need to make it as hard as they plan to make invention... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Alowishus Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:46:00 - [294] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Alowishus I think some of you should quit Eve and play a different game. You don't join a basketball game and complain when it's not football, do you? So are the rules the same today, as when basketball was first invented? Did they add more rules/fouls over the years, to promote better play out of the athletes as opposed to cheating street ball players? So you're playing Eve because you're hoping the rules get changed to match what you believe to be the correct way. Hmmm, ok. I'm playing Eve for different reasons. Before you blither on with anymore of this holier-than-though "PK'er" vs. PvP diatribe you may want to look into the history of some of the prominent corps in your own alliance. You think when Shinra was gatecamping HED-GP 24/7 popping newb haulers and what not all day long they weren't doing it simply because it's fun? What you're trying to do is make your opinion about PK'ers, which I don't agree with, seem as if it were fact. Despite evidence to the contrary, you claim even CCP sees it as you do. I simply don't believe you and you have no actual evidence of this. When CCP changes the game I'll believe you. Until then, you're an idiot.
Osia Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:47:00 - [295] Originally by: Tanis Bastar Originally by: Osia You are right in that blockade runners and deep space transports are present and available in the game. However, does anyone else find it odd that ships that seem intended for use in ôdeep spaceö and the more hostile portions of the EVE universe are needed more often in high security portions of that same universe? er, no, it's not odd at all. On my planet even in the middle of the safest cities they use vehicles called "armored cars" to transport large amounts of the local currency. Yes, but tell me on your planet do these armored cars regularly take direct fire from main battle tanks? On your planet do law enforcement officials respond within seconds if someone in a tank takes aggressive action toward and kills one of your armored cars? On your planet once the thief's tank is dead does law enforcement watch idly as the thief's friend loads the contents of the shattered armored car as well as the salvage from the thief's tank into a truck and allow him to drive away with a nod and a smile? On your planet does the thief get to head home to his hangar full of battle tanks to find a pair of notes in the mail? The first note is from law enforcement and reads ôyou've committed an aggressive act, stay at home for 15 minutes or we will destroy what you're driving againö. The second note is from the thief's insurance company and reads ôwe are sorry for your recent vehicle loss to the authorities, please find the attached insurance checkö. You see real world analogies don't often work in respect to EVE. --- Logistics XO, Astrum Contract Services Group
Alowishus Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:52:00 - [296] Originally by: Bhaal CCP needs to make it a whole lot harder to do, they need to make it as hard as they plan to make invention... I'm sorry but I don't agree that CCP needs to change the game enough to account for the actions of every stupid, lazy moron. There has to be a balance of rules and intelligent play. I think there is a good a balance now. Suicide alting is much less lucritive and more skill intensive than it used to be. You used to only need a Kestrel with cruise missiles. Now it usually takes at least a T3/4 cruiser, which means you really have to run into someone that is pretty stupid to make any money.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:52:00 - [297] Edited by: Bhaal on 07/11/2006 20:53:36 Quote: When CCP changes the game I'll believe you. Until then, you're an idiot. CCP has changed many things I have *****ed about for the last 3 years. Not saying I had anything to do with it, but yeah, I pay for and play this game, and I'll use the forums however I want. If PK'ers can play however they want, I can certainly use the forums to talk about whatever I want until the MODS ban me for good. If you don't like what I'm saying, too bad for you, deal with it or ignore me... If you don't like to argue, why are you here? I play the game to have fun, and use the forums to lobby for changes that I deem neccessary to make EVE a better game. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Alowishus Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:54:00 - [298] Edited by: Alowishus on 07/11/2006 20:54:51 Originally by: Bhaal If you don't like to argue, why are you here? I love to argue. But I'd prefer it be with people of at least average intelligence.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:55:00 - [299] I'd transfer BPO's and BPC's in a battleship. Interesting how big a gang should be to kill that in secure space? You played for 2 years and you still moved everything you had in a paper-thin ship. I don't like high sec ganking, but there's a big portion of your own negligence in what happened.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:55:00 - [300] Originally by: Alowishus Edited by: Alowishus on 07/11/2006 20:54:51 Originally by: Bhaal If you don't like to argue, why are you here? I love to argue. But I'd prefer it be with people of at least average intelligence. So because my opinion is different than yours, I'm of lesser intelligence? Sure, ok ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus



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