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I've never played a game that cators to grief play as much as this one

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Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:15:00 - [121] I'm starting to think that maybe a lot of the DEV's are suicide gankers, because maybe they suck at real PvP, hence the reasoning this ****ty game mechanic is allowed to stay in the game... They were all PK'ers in UO you know. That's why they made EVE a griefer haven... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:17:00 - [122] Originally by: Bhaal I'm starting to think that maybe a lot of the DEV's are suicide gankers, because maybe they suck at real PvP, hence the reasoning this ****ty game mechanic is allowed to stay in the game... They were all PK'ers in UO you know. That's why they made EVE a griefer haven... Ok, for the last time, if all they want is your stuff then it's not griefing, they just want your stuff and are going to take it. Much like alliances seize space from each other - or is that supposed to be griefing to? --- Recently returned from vacation on a sunny planet in 0.0. Guess which one!
Stephra Parle Dark Angel Security	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:18:00 - [123] I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet (I couldn't be bothered reading through 4 pages of people warning you about hauling expensive cargo in a T1 Inductrial), but have you tried putting any valuables into a Secure Container (password protected of course), then putting the container into your ship? Even if any Empire pirates decide to take the chance and suicide attack your vessel, the Secure Container survives, gets jettisoned along with the ship's jetcan, but is still protected by the password. You may lose your ship, but nobody can access any of the items in the container. Note: You may need to be quick and anchor the Secure Container after your hauler is popped to prevent it being scooped: I have not been in a position to test this last part.
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:21:00 - [124] I love EVE.. EVE is the proof of Darwins theory.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:26:00 - [125] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Bhaal I'm starting to think that maybe a lot of the DEV's are suicide gankers, because maybe they suck at real PvP, hence the reasoning this **ty game mechanic is allowed to stay in the game... They were all PK'ers in UO you know. That's why they made EVE a griefer haven... Ok, for the last time, if all they want is your stuff then it's not griefing, they just want your stuff and are going to take it. Much like alliances seize space from each other - or is that supposed to be griefing to? PvP'ing with the intent to lose your ship to Concord, a game mechanic whereby you must lose your ship or face bannage, then to swoop in with a hauler alt to take the loot, where the only one who has the ability to avenge the loot stealer is already sitting in a POD due to the suicide ganker, is utilizing poor game mechanics to *an individual in high sec. If you're such a moron that you can't see that this is blatant abuse of faulty game mechanics, than you're either a child and don't know better, or a griefer yourself, which still classes you as a child anyways. This tactic is a cute little way for players to act like immature children in high sec and get away with it. Similar to what that lofty child does with his expoiting technique, same **... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:29:00 - [126] Quote: I've never played a game that cators to grief play as much as this one Yeah.....its great isn't it? ....it's great hi-jacking a meme isn't it?
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:33:00 - [127] Originally by: Twilight Moon Quote: I've never played a game that cators to grief play as much as this one Yeah.....its great isn't it? At least as time goes on, CCP removes more & more of the griefing, which kind of proves that it's it griefing in the first place, unlike what many of you try to argue... CCP just takes way too long to act on this stuff... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:36:00 - [128] Originally by: Stephra Parle I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet (I couldn't be bothered reading through 4 pages of people warning you about hauling expensive cargo in a T1 Inductrial), but have you tried putting any valuables into a Secure Container (password protected of course), then putting the container into your ship? Even if any Empire pirates decide to take the chance and suicide attack your vessel, the Secure Container survives, gets jettisoned along with the ship's jetcan, but is still protected by the password. You may lose your ship, but nobody can access any of the items in the container. Note: You may need to be quick and anchor the Secure Container after your hauler is popped to prevent it being scooped: I have not been in a position to test this last part. Firstly, prevention is better than a cure. Secondly, I do not beleive you can anchor a secure can in a pod, though I should test it out. Thridly, even if you could anchor it, the hauler would have enough time to scoop it, and them repackage/reprocess it to get all the items inside. Passwords do not stop repackage/reprocessing --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:37:00 - [129] Originally by: Bhaal At least as time goes on, CCP removes more & more of the griefing, which kind of proves that it's it griefing in the first place, unlike what many of you try to argue... CCP just takes way too long to act on this stuff... Because obviously we must base change on the presumption that it is made for the sake of our personal view and for no other reason whatsoever.... If CCP states it's griefin, it's griefing, if not, it's not.
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:37:00 - [130] NO where is safe. It was simply foolish of you too fly so much of your stuff in a T1 indy. Like numerous people have said before. Fly it in a transport, or a cruiser of a battleship, something thats not gonna be one vollied by a suicide ganker. Heck even if you had a passive tank on that ship you might've just lived long enough. -------------- Dang nabit

Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:42:00 - [131] Edited by: Bhaal on 07/11/2006 12:44:12 Originally by: Dee Ellis Originally by: Bhaal At least as time goes on, CCP removes more & more of the griefing, which kind of proves that it's it griefing in the first place, unlike what many of you try to argue... CCP just takes way too long to act on this stuff... Because obviously we must base change on the presumption that it is made for the sake of our personal view and for no other reason whatsoever.... If CCP states it's griefin, it's griefing, if not, it's not. CCP once said JIP camping was NOT an exploit or griefing, yet they removed the ability to use that tactic eventually. Don't be silly, CCP is like the Catholic Church, they take a while to come around to reality... Eventually suicide ganking will probably be trashed, as it is an expoilt whether CCP currently states it is or not... You're all a bunch of foolish children if you believe this is valid gameplay for an MMO. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Ikvar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:43:00 - [132] Originally by: Rekindle I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything I own. This is the best post EVER! Originally by: Rekindle I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything I own.
Lorn Yeager Gallente Blessed Souls	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:45:00 - [133] Originally by: Rod Blaine well tbh he is right. But Eve also caters to other gameplay more then any other game. And tbh, what he descrivbed isnt even griefplay, it jsut caused greif. A wholly different thing, altho understandably people get it mixed up sometimes. Tbh, even though I think he is right - I cant help the feeling that he just didnt take enough care. This is a game where risk vs reward is in the high seat. You take a risk, and harvest the rewards. Some risks are smaller than others. I have have hauled countless millions just like him without an incident. So count luck into the equation as well. But, as griefed as he may feel, the attackers ran a risk as well. The most valuable items could have blown up right there and left only crap to loot. This way they would have lost. But the belive the possibility of a huge reward was worth the risk. Thats whats this game is all about. Be smart, think before you act and learn from your mistakes. Im sorry for your losses. But its only a game. Go get your stuff back :-) Begin sig: //-> Its Aloha time! Lorn Yeager Blessed Souls
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:46:00 - [134] Why does everybody say Hi Sec is dangerous? If you were as smart and uber as me, you could survive in hi sec too. Hint: Use alt-scouts, have a safe spot ready, only use instas. Bring friends. Watch local like a hawk. Trust no one. Anybody with half a brain can get through a gate camp in any ship, under any circumstances. Reset Irony and Sarcasm to Normal. Put home addresses in loss and killmails. Maybe then the community will find a way to control themselves a bit better.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:49:00 - [135] Originally by: Bhaal You're all a bunch of foolish children if you believe this is valid gameplay for an MMO. pats Bhaal's head gently Yes, yes of course we are. Here, have some ritalin and go calm down.
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:50:00 - [136] Edited by: Dee Ellis on 07/11/2006 12:52:47 I'm sorry Bhaal, but you're saying YOU know what's VALID gameplay in MMOs and CCP doesn't? My bet is that you take the ball from the Lacrosse games and state it's not valid gameplay too? Or take buckets from children in sandboxes as it's not 'valid' for the sandbox? See where I'm getting at? good, hopefully I don't have to explain this one. Originally by: Sendraks Originally by: Bhaal You're all a bunch of foolish children if you believe this is valid gameplay for an MMO. pats Bhaal's head gently Yes, yes of course we are. Here, have some ritalin and go calm down. The worst thing about your post is that I'm on Concerta..
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:02:00 - [137] Originally by: Rod Blaine No Bhaal, suicide ganking won't be abolished. ctr+q-ing will however. Whiners like the op should stop whining about features existing and start argumenting about how features should be balanced. at least that could lead to something, this thread isn't even going to make any CCP dev think about it. We'll see... Tell that to the guys in Space Invaders and talk to them about JIP camping, oh wait, both of those don't exist anymore, my bad... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:03:00 - [138] Edited by: Sendraks on 07/11/2006 13:03:36 Originally by: Bhaal I've been playing long enough to see griefers & their tactics come & go... Thats just super, but it doesn't validate your belief that this is "griefing." Its "piracy." I'd assume anyone who'd been playing Eve for so long would know the difference. Originally by: Bhaal These tactics don't affect me in-game anymore, as I'm not an empire dweller. However, there is no reason to stop caring about poor game mechanics, and griefers who utilize them. I agree. Crappy game mechanics must go. This, however, isn't one of them and you've really not demonstrated why this should be considered griefing. Originally by: Bhaal Many like you who criticized me in the past are long gone because the griefing they utilized, and I ***ed about have been abolished, just like suicide ganking will be some day. Because obviously these things were abolished because your opinion is oh so correct and not for any other reason at all. No, they were obviously abolished because CCP have regular "vindicate Bhaal" milestones set into their yearly development plan. Originally by:** Bhaal Enjoy your fun while it lasts I guess... I will. I have no interest in suicide piracy myself, as should be apparent, but I do have an interest in making sure I fit my transport vessels to protect against it. Remove suicide piracy from the game and thats one less thing to worry about and one more thing that will make eve increasingly stale and uninteresting.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:09:00 - [139] Quote: I will. I have no interest in suicide game myself, as should be apparent, but I do have an interest in making sure I fit my transport vessels to protect against it. Remove suicide piracy from the game and thats one less thing to worry about and one more thing that will make eve increasingly stale and uninteresting. EVE could be so much more interesting if ppl didn't spend so much time trying to grief in empire, and they got out into 0.0 & low sec & PvP'ed the way they should... To many spineless players, and CCP allows them to flourish in empire, It's CCP's fault. It's been a griefer heaven since day one, and as time goes on, less and less outright griefing is allowed, which is a good thing IMO. I'd say the game is more interesting now then it was at release, but griefers long gone obviously don't agree, as they quit and went on to some other game where it's easier for them to cheat. EVE will get better with age, and these griefer tactics will always come and go. As long as they continue to go, I'm fine with that... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:11:00 - [140] Edited by: Dee Ellis on 07/11/2006 13:14:53 So it's better that they grief in 0.0, and get away with it, including their ship, then? Atleast Empire Space punish them... Edit: What's with this horrible "You're playing it the wrong way" idea anyways? The act of piracy due to the victim not taking proper acction to prevent it.... I dunno.. A dress, diamonds and downtown Chicago in the middle of the night, comes to mind again.

Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:13:00 - [141] Still all this talk of griefing... ffs ---------- IBTL \o/
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:15:00 - [142] Originally by: Dee Ellis So it's better that they grief in 0.0, and get away with it, including their ship, then? Atleast Empire Space punish them... There is no griefing in 0.0, that's the ** point. Which means these chicken griefers are hiding in empire space looking for PvP with vast reward, and only taking a known calculated risk, plus getting ** insurance for their ship! It's the definition of lame if you ask me... At bare minimum, CCP need to take away insurence for death by Concord, and by corp warfare in the NEXT patch. And that's just the start IMO. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:16:00 - [143] Originally by: Bhaal There is no griefing in 0.0, that's the **** point. So you can't attack lonely ships with no chance to survive in 0.0 then?
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:19:00 - [144] Edited by: Sendraks on 07/11/2006 13:26:17 Edited by: Sendraks on 07/11/2006 13:24:18 Originally by: Bhaal EVE could be so much more interesting if ppl didn't spend so much time trying to grief in empire, and they got out into 0.0 & low sec & PvP'ed the way they should... To many spineless players, and CCP allows them to flourish in empire, It's CCP's fault. Two points. 1) if everyone who did pvp and piracy (please stop calling it "griefing" its very immature) in low sec and 0.0, it would make empire less interesting. Piracy should be able to occur in Eve, anywhere at anytime, the only difference in high sec being that the piracy should be much less common and easier to defend against. Piracy in empire IS much less common and IS easier to defend against. 2) Your statement is based on the fallacy that priacy and pvp should only take place in low sec and 0.0. Originally by: Bhaal It's been a griefer heaven since day one, and as time goes on, less and less outright griefing is allowed, which is a good thing IMO. Where is this mythical griefer heaven that you speak of? The only times I've ever been attacked have been in low sec and 0.0. I have never, not once, seen an incident of suicide ganking in empire. Oh I know it happens, but your statement of "griefer heaven" (its not griefing. Learn what griefing actually is, or just be quiet please) would imply its happening everywhere, all the time. It isn't. Even though I know it is not commonplace and I'm highly unlikely to encounter it, I still fit my haulers to be ready for it. Originally by: Bhaal At bare minimum, CCP need to take away insurence for death by Concord I agree. This would be a good move. Originally by: Bhaal There is no griefing in 0.0, that's the ** point. Piracy in empire is no more griefing than piracy in 0.0. If someone, foolishly, flies a T1 industrial thorugh 0.0 without fitting it properly and planning their route properly and taking all the necessary precautions and they lose the ship and cargo to another player, then thats piracy. The only difference in Empire is that it is less likely to happen. Its still not griefing. Sitting outside a station in empire, repeatedly podding someone as they emerge (replacing your lost ship every time) is griefing. There is a world of difference between the two. Originally by:** Erica chez That's really the best way to make 0.5+ space safe for haulers. Why should empire space be safe for haulers? Empire space should be DIFFICULT to pirate in, not SAFE for anyone.
Erica chez Amarr Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:19:00 - [145] Originally by: Bhaal At bare minimum, CCP need to take away insurance for death by Concord, and by corp warfare in the NEXT patch. And that's just the start IMO. I'd agree with that, I'd go a step further, if you are the attacker you should be podded by Concord. That's really the best way to make 0.5+ space safe for haulers.
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Necroborg The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:22:00 - [146] Why do people when they lose resort to calling people 'Griefers'? OP, stop whining. You lost, deal with it. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Lorn Yeager Gallente Blessed Souls	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:22:00 - [147] Whats really odd here is that people are complaining about the creators of this game. "Its CCP's fault that I lost my xxx" Consider this: The game is exactly the way the creators envisioned it. You can do certain things in this game that you cant do in others. Thats what makes it great. If you wanna blame anyone, go blame the "griefers". They are only acting within mechanics however. If Empire space or "high-sec" was a complete no fire zone... the game would never have evolved into what it is today. Begin sig: //-> Its Aloha time! Lorn Yeager Blessed Souls
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:24:00 - [148] Edited by: Dee Ellis on 07/11/2006 13:27:20 Umm, yeah, I just checked the support... Quote: Summary How do I avoid player pirates? Body Locate yourself in Empire space. Being based in a system with a security status above 0.5 should be relatively safe. Player pirates can not enter these systems because of their negative security status and therefore there are less pirates there, than in the lower security systems. Note, though, that you are never invulnerable to hit-and-run attacks, so if you are transporting valuables, always ensure you are either on a ship that can withstand a short attack, or that you have backup. There, CCP stated it's fine, they didn't NOT state anything, they clearly stated it's fine. Can we end this argument now?
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:25:00 - [149] Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 13:27:57 I have had some sleep and now I understand the difference between my point of view and most that have come here. Piracy to me is something that happens in low sec/ zero sec systems. Empire space in high sec space, outside the paradigm of empire war, is a consentual pvp zone. You can not, normally, fire off on someone in empire without their consent (which gets implied when you gang them/flag off something etc). I'm comparing this to other games that have created consentual and non consentual zones of pvp encounters (well, well, well before WoW). In many games if you attack within the range of "guarded space" you get insta wacked. Eve has a similar system except its not sufficient enough to protect everyone, just people in certain ships. I propose such as system encourages grief play, something I continue to believe regardless of how much advice, flaming or insulting some of you may dish out here. (Learn to attack the idea, not the person - its really quite shallow and immature). The general feed back provided is: You should have known better -Which I agree, give me a cookie for having such a big egg on my face. I accept that my stuff is gone, but that doesn't mean (with my plethora of knowledge of other PvP games) I have to like it. You should have outfitted module X,Y and Z to avoid such ganks. Again, this is like saying you should put on a radiation suit to avoid the nuclear testing in your back yard: Just because its happening doesn't mean you have to automatically accept it. You've been playing the game for 2 years and you dont have 1 bil to fly a friegther? I have been playing the game for x time, that char was an alt . This is an accepted form of play and it helps to keep the economy in check - Perhaps the craziest thing I've ever heard in my 10 years of online gaming. Weak argument founded on a limited experience in MMORPG games. The bottom line is this is a l a m e tactic and no matter how much you folks choose to insult me (which is basically pouring salt on a wound) it remains a lame tactic. I'm not on here ranting about dieing to a bubble or dieing in .4 space or dieing to a fair battle or even dieing to lag. The fact that guards respond to non consentual pvp contact in a "high security" zone is a well known fact. Whats ironic is if I had happened to have a fitted cruiser or something in the area I wouldn't have a chance at getting my stuff back because had I fired on these guys I would have been concorded. So once and for all I have the following conclusions: I dont need your advice on how to protect myself (If i do decide to rebuild i'm quite certain i've learned that lesson). please feel free to flame me though since you all seem to get off on that. Iteron m5 ships are used to transport trit - thats it - if you want the luxury of moving other items spend the 1 bil on a freigther or 100mil on t2 hauler. or ship x y z to avoid a broken game mechanic, because its fine the way it is and it helps the economy. This game caters to griefers by making non pvp targets fodder for people who spend 10-15 hours a day sitting a gate waiting for stuff to come through -- that is the crux of the eve experience. I've heard the suggestion that this game embraces Dwarinistic concepts (Dwarin was an idiot btw) but the reality is the risk vs reward pardigm of this game is so majorly messed up its not funny. For a sand box game it sure does caste people into some pretty tight ruts. -------------------------------------------
eLusi0n Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:25:00 - [150] LOL. What corp was it? I should shoot them an application. Thats funny. I mean... I'm sorry you lost your stuff. But all the same, I agree with everyone else here. You had all of your stuff in a tin can, when you could have had a T2 or a different ship. You were flying through borderline unsecured space. You didn't have any one flying with you to back you up or help in any situation. (ESPECIALLY if you know this 'is a method of gameplay') Why would you ever move everything you own at one time with no support? I don't care if I was flying through 1.0 space the whole time, I still wouldnt haul everything I own in one run, just for the sake of sanity. Did you almost have cardiac arrest when they blew up all of you stuff instead of looting it? I'm sorry, thats a nice touch too. "We didn't want your stuff, we just wanted to see you cry." Did they follow you to the forums and wait for you to post this? Its a game, you gambled away time. Fortunately you have a lot of time left and you won't have to put a lien on your house to keep up your addiction. So, thats positive? Okay, now I feel borderline rude. Sorry man, 'teh sux'. If you quit, can I have your character?



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