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I've never played a game that cators to grief play as much as this one

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Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.11.07 08:39:00 - [91] Originally by: Rekindle Granted my view point is a little messed up right now. Having played game for a while now ( 2 years in feb ) and loosing literally everything you own on a retarded game mechanic will have that effect on people. But let me explain: I spend 80% of my time in 0.0 and %20 of my time in empire. I was on a empire run when a well practiced group blew up my iteron 5 hauler [with high end expanders] in a .5 system. I was not at war with them, I wasn't afk, I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything (and I mean everything) I own in the form of Bpos/Bpcs/mods etc into nothing. Let me save the naysayers the effort: And explain outright that I understand that this is an accepted method of game play (to shoot and take the Concord hit) and then have your mates loot. But its specifically because its accepted that I come to the conclusion this game is a griefer playground. I have invested as much time and energy in this game as griefers, yet because I chose to move my stuff through what was suposed to be secure space, I am being penalized and the "material" representation of time is now gone. If you don't want players to partake in care bearing empire runs then dont bait them with what is 99.99999999% of the time secure space and write off being ganked with a "you should have known better" attitude. Just call this a %100 pvp only game where combat can happen against your 1hp hauler any time anywhere and remove policing altogther or otherwise repair this pathetic game mechanic. I'll go ahead again and reply to this thread without reading any of the replys.. You had no wcs fitted.. You had everyting you own in 1 hauler with top end expanders.. You admit to knowing that suicide ganks are an excepted game mechanic.. And last but not least Eve is first and foremost a combat mmo regardles if its pvp pve or market pvp.. We play this game to pwn other players.. The devs love pwning other players.. I love pwning other players.. Hell most everyone I know who plays the game loves the fact that if you get caught with your pants down you take a huge hit.. Eve is cerebral not twitch.. So next time fit a ship with a travelling setup and space your move over several hauls not just one.. Play the game don't let the game play you.. [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:05:00 - [92] 0.5 and above is not safe space. It issafer space. As for grief play..i suppose it depends on your definition of grief play. This was an attempt to destroy your ship for profit and as such i would not class it as grief-play...just hi-sec piracy. Given that the only difference between safer space and 0.0 is the repercussions of destroying a ship, would you determine destroying a tech I hauler in 0.0 to be grief play? Oh and Firefox spell checker ftw! ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:08:00 - [93] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Heh, it isnt even griefers perse, this game heavily caters to skilless pvper's and literally encourages them to fight noobs and avoid competitive figths. Most anyone who enjoys good pvp left eve long time ago or plays eve to get off thier pve rocks, or just doesnt know what to do so they stay in eve. Eve pvp isone of the worst iterations of pvp i seen in a long time, hence why EVE population stays low, for what is over all a very good game. I'm not going to say EVE PvP is perfect... but what games are there that have better PvP? There might be some that are more fun in the short term, but unless there is real loss and something to fight for, it gets boring quickly... _______________________________ It's great not being Amarr, isn't it?
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:10:00 - [94] Originally by: St3v3sancho I wouldn't fly ANYWHERE in the game with ALL my stuff in one hauler without an escort...quote] An escort is no use. They cannot fire first to protect you, they won't kill the attackers faster than concord. About all they can do is race the attackers hauler to recover your loot and if it is bulky they wont be able to carry it. There are decent ways to minimise the chance of a suicide gank - escorts arent one of them.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:18:00 - [95] Your escort could fly a logistics cruiser and boost your armor tank all the way up during the gank. --- Recently returned from vacation on a sunny planet in 0.0. Guess which one!
Biltic Creen Minmatar Deutsche Minen und Werke	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:19:00 - [96] Originally by: Rekindle 1. if you jump trhoguh empire space and 99.99 % of that time is over 1.5 years and you've never had an incident and then you get ganked by a lame game mechanic where is the real problem? 2. if 3000 ppl have this problem where is the real problem? Is it really with the stupid noobs like me who think they can warp through "safe" space or does it rest with a mechanic that allows all by haulers to pass by safely? Man you are really asking for it Of course it is the "noobs like you" fault to think you are absolutely safe in high-sec. The tutorial tells you that you aren't. The daily "omg they hax0r3d my iteron mark 5 with 5 Local Hull Expanders and 50 T2 BPOs - i'm gonna quit" threads tell you that you aren't. I simply don't get it. Why come and whine about something on the forums when it's already been said 1000 times This post is not my personal opinion. It does represent the standpoint of every single player !
Jurskjeld Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:27:00 - [97] I am sorry for your loss, but it's kind of thrilling, innit? The way I see it, this game DOES indeed hand out balls to the bullies and those ready to gank over a low shoe, but that's what makes it so much more thrilling to be an industrialist. You know, to outsmart them, to be real paranoid, and get a rep as someone who dodges danger. Say if I ever was in a T2 hauler, carrying a bil or so, I would rather choose to make five more jumps worth of detour, than to go through a gate which had a seemingly idling T1 ship on one side of it. God knows what'd rest on the other! I once got 134m worth of stuff packed into someone's Iteron. Four jumps, highsec, and it wasn't even my fault if it got blown up. But do you think I was ever comfortable during that ride? In my opinion this game loses a lot of people to its harsh PvPish nature, but I can accept that, though I do wish complete newbs would be more protected against ganking. ;) -- Amarr scum be pushing gas, Caldari dogs are kissing their ***. Gallente and Minmatar together stand forever as the holy band.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:34:00 - [98] It's a sandbox game, a game where Devs decide the ground rules, and players are free to do whatever they wish inside. Every now and then, Devs step in and add/change rules, but for the mostpart, it remains a sandbox.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:09:00 - [99] I see no evidence of griefers. ---------- IBTL \o/
DeckardIRL Gallente Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:19:00 - [100] Hell I was in 0.0 on my way back to empire to cash in, 2 months of named loot in an Iteron MKIV... spotted lots of ppl in local warped to the gate at 100km.. lots of ppl there no-one moved towards me and I was preping to warp to planet.... next thing I was dead... an Eagle 200km out with passive targeter and a couple of volleys of T2 Mediums later I was egging it home. Good kill by him and when I came back in a Helios the guy thanked me for all the nice loot.... thats the way it goes, everyone has a sob story, whether its 0.0 or Empire and it was a good kill by them..... Deck _____________________________________________ Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud.... I shoot better on Bud..... Eve Info- All you need to know

Sendraks	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:34:00 - [101] Originally by: Crumplecorn I see no evidence of griefers. Agreed. I see no evidence of griefing. I see evidence of a player who should have known better. WHo should have known that he could be attacked anywhere at any time by any one. Who should have known exactly what he could do to protect his assets while transporting through empire space. Rekindle was not griefed by anyone but himself and his own poor planning. If he'd thought about it and taken proper precautions, he would not have been the victim here. Instead, he lost his ship and assets to players better prepared than him. There is no faulty mechanic here. Fact. End of story.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:35:00 - [102] I think the increase coming to all ships in Kali will help to somewhat address the hi sec suicide pirates. It won't eliminate it though. I'm sorry that you lost all your game possessions. Its easy to say that you should have done things differently and also just as easy to say the game mechanics support this far to easily. I think really speaking that industrials and mining barges are to fragile considering their function in the game. Considering a time of war has perpetually existed for centuries it is hard to believe they'd build such ships so flimsily as the game does. At the same time as many have pointed out we all are somewhat aware of their inadequencies. I don't think I'd ever carry all my game possessions in a single ship even if I was able to. ( I could if I could fly a freighter I guess ). THe game is just to dangerous to put all your eggs in one basket. I am sorry that you lost everything you worked for in game. Chin up and try to rebuild best you can :) learning from this experience :) Galactic Express Recruitment Post
TrulyKosh	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:38:00 - [103] Originally by: Futuri Originally by: Rekindle I perfectly understand this is accepted game play...thats my point. The fact that non combat characters can't move their crap through safe space is grief at its very core. They easily can. Why were you moving all of your possessions after 2 years of playing, in a ship that takes two days to train? It is safe for those who trained the necessary skills, for example, Transport Ships or Freighters. It is not. It only takes bigger gang of suicide gankers to take down those ships.
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:49:00 - [104] Originally by: Rekindle Read people , read. I perfectly understand this is accepted game play...thats my point. The fact that non combat characters can't move their crap through safe space is grief at its very core. I have read. There was a very simple method for you to move everything thru empire even as a non-combat character. In you case it is called an obelisk. If you have iteron 5 already it is not a huge step up. Freighters have more hp than most empire gank squads can go thru quickly, and probably more important, unless you are a war target, gank squads won't touch them no matter what you are carrying. Simple reason for this: they don't drop cans, no profit.
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:53:00 - [105] Originally by: Rekindle because I chose to move my stuff through what was suposed to be secure space, I am being penalized and the "material" representation of time is now gone. question, who says it's secure space? DE
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:54:00 - [106] Suicide attacks are the problem. They are unrealistic, and only exist because there is no sufficient punishment to counter it. In rl you are toast! There's no greater punishment. But EVE is a game, meant for entertainment, and so you can't put in a system that players would consider too harsh (i.e. permadeath). There are different ways to think on this. 1) Life in EVE sucks. It sucks so bad that every pilot is a depressed/religious fanatic/kamikaze suicidal nutjob. Personally i don't like that one 2) Get friends to escort you whenever you are hauling anything you really don't want to lose. Good idea, but not so great for those who don't have many friends, or who's friends aren't online. 3) Get Concord to escort you. Concord are supposed to be peacekeepers right? Maybe you should be able to hire their services for a time (the bigger the escort the higher the cost) to escort you through Empire space. Of course if you enter non-Empire space then you're on your own. Hmm, i wasn't sure about this idea at first but the more i think of it the more i like it. Why not counter a game mechanic that can't be implemented (harsh punishment) with one that can? Players who stay in Empire can feel safer (if they pay) and it's a moneysink. (Although there's probably something bad about this idea that i haven't thought of yet...other than pk's crying about it.) Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:03:00 - [107] you are moving stuff around that is worth billions of ISK in a flimsy hauler and wonder why you get blown up honestly, if someone would drive millions of euros around in an open lory.. ** i'd have some millions more on my RL account. Originally by:** George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida. My sig is blue not pink although i can't argue with the slave part - Xorus wth whats this blue stuff all of a sudden? Did I miss a mail? -eris Bwahahahaha!11 Immy was here
TrulyKosh	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:08:00 - [108] Originally by: Wolfways Suicide attacks are the problem. 2) Get friends to escort you whenever you are hauling anything you really don't want to lose. 3) Get Concord to escort you. Both ideas will not solve the problem. The escort will not prevent the target from being blown to bits. The attackers will be killed anyway as it is now. It's the ability to pick up the loot with a 3rd party account standing by that makes this tactics profitable. And this 3rd party account cannot be attacked by your friends (without being killed by Concord as well), nor will any Concord escort take any action against this account as it did not (officially) participate in the attack. Only way to get rid of suicide gankers is see, is to get rid of alts completely.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:09:00 - [109] Originally by: Ethidium Bromide you are moving stuff around that is worth billions of ISK in a flimsy hauler and wonder why you get blown up honestly, if someone would drive millions of euros around in an open lory.. **** i'd have some millions more on my RL account. No, you'd have the money taken off you and be thrown into jail Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:10:00 - [110] Originally by: Mecinia Lua I'm sorry that you lost all your game possessions. Its easy to say that you should have done things differently and also just as easy to say the game mechanics support this far to easily. If it is far easy both ways, and it is easy both ways, then in game terms it is balanced. It is not hard to move expensive BPOs through empire space or even low sec, if you chose the right ship and plan your route carefully. By comparison, the pirates (or griefers as the more immature might wish to call them) have to either a) be really lucky to be waiting at the spot where you pass through or b) have the necessary intelligence in advance to be able to set up their suicide ambush. If it is every bit as easy to avoid losing everything through proper preparation as it is to take everything someone else has with proper preparation, then it can hardly be considered "far too easy" one way or the other. The game mechanics are fine.

Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:14:00 - [111] Originally by: TrulyKosh Originally by: Wolfways Suicide attacks are the problem. 2) Get friends to escort you whenever you are hauling anything you really don't want to lose. 3) Get Concord to escort you. Both ideas will not solve the problem. The escort will not prevent the target from being blown to bits. The attackers will be killed anyway as it is now. It's the ability to pick up the loot with a 3rd party account standing by that makes this tactics profitable. And this 3rd party account cannot be attacked by your friends (without being killed by Concord as well), nor will any Concord escort take any action against this account as it did not (officially) participate in the attack. Only way to get rid of suicide gankers is see, is to get rid of alts completely. Ah i see. Sorry, still a noob here I'd totally support removal of alts. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:24:00 - [112] I recently moved ALL 199 BPO's I own, in a Blaster rex. I have been moveing all my stuff in a transport...complete with armor plates hardners and hardners. Falling to the grief tactics in regular hauler is just stupid. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Athena Starfire Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:26:00 - [113] Edited by: Athena Starfire on 07/11/2006 11:28:43 Wanna be safe in HiSec? :) Make sure you have enough shield,armour and hull to take 2 or 3 shots..Concord will toast them in about a max of 10-15 sec, less in .7-1.0 Most 'suiside killers' use only 1 ship. Use ECM so it takes them longer to be able to target you..You don't need to outgun them just make them waste enough time until Concord comes and sticks an unstoppable bone up thier arse. Cheers
Sales Merchant	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:36:00 - [114] Oddly enough I think 0.0 has made you feel too brave in the sense that you thought empire wasn't a dangerous place, when in actual fact it can be just as dangerous as 0.0 if people want your stuff. Bottom line is no where in eve is safe, suicide gankers are not new in eve they've always been about, the only difference is as time goes by they are getting better and more professional at it. Interesting thread.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:37:00 - [115] Edited by: Victor Vision on 07/11/2006 11:39:01 Originally by: Eilie And losing ships in PvE? Is that a joke? Just for your information: a lot of ships are lost in PvE. - Look at the amount of pods you see returning to mission hubs. - You can also look into the mission forums and will find quiete a few reports of ships lost in PvE. - Another way to check how many ships are lost in PvE is turning on the 'ships destroyed in last 24 hours' option in the map. Most of the blobs you see in empire are at mission hubs. These are by a high percentage due to ship loss in missions and only to some degree due to empire wars or suicide ganking. Thinking no ships are destroyed in PvE is similary educated as thinking flying a hauler through high sec is safe.
Quani Gallente Extinction Level Event	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:40:00 - [116] Originally by: Rekindle Read people , read. I perfectly understand this is accepted game play...thats my point. The fact that non combat characters can't move their crap through safe space is grief at its very core. They can, adapt. ------ There is no sin except stupidity.
Tivook	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:41:00 - [117] What can I say Rekindle? You sir are a stupid fool. at least get yourself an occator or something that can survive long enough for concorde to arrive. Heh.. move all your stuff worth billions in an iteron V and then complain about being shot.. you should be shot irl for being so dumb! Tiv
ShardowRhino Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:46:00 - [118] this is weaksauce if this is considered a troll post. obviously the system isnt broken if those in the group attacking you were attacked and instagibbed by concord. actually id say that being instagibbed by concord is a broken system. Anyone moving their "evelife" savings at once is putting himself at risk of losing it all in one swift move. even the noobs will realize this within a few days.
Perani	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:50:00 - [119] Edited by: Perani on 07/11/2006 11:57:46 Originally by: TrulyKosh Originally by: Wolfways Suicide attacks are the problem. 2) Get friends to escort you whenever you are hauling anything you really don't want to lose. 3) Get Concord to escort you. Both ideas will not solve the problem. The escort will not prevent the target from being blown to bits. The attackers will be killed anyway as it is now. It's the ability to pick up the loot with a 3rd party account standing by that makes this tactics profitable. And this 3rd party account cannot be attacked by your friends (without being killed by Concord as well), nor will any Concord escort take any action against this account as it did not (officially) participate in the attack. Only way to get rid of suicide gankers is see, is to get rid of alts completely. Or get rid of the ability for the 3rd party to take the cans, at least momentarily. How about once concord shows up, it will automatically fire and pop anyone other than you who pick up your cans for 15 minutes, allowing you the time to dock and buy whatever ship you can to come back and get your stuff. Also as a side effect, the criminal will be shot down in empire space for the next 24 hours so long as he is not in egg form. This would prevent the pilot from boarding another ship and resume the tactic. There is not enough punishment, that's why crime pays. It is like allowing armed robbers to go free with a hand slap. Edit: I was thinking about the security system and had a laugh. What's this security BS? "Oh, you just killed another player in a restricted zone, bad boy, -5 points, don't do it again, m'kay?" "What, you killed someone else? Naughty, naughty, no cookies, -5 points" "Hey, stop killing other people" "ok, you have killed enough, we are going to have to let you go now" Concord, you are all bleeping idiots.
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:54:00 - [120] Originally by: Rekindle blew up my iteron 5 hauler [with high end expanders] just on this, 1 question why did you never bother to get a viator or occ? my alt **** near never leaves her viator the viator is a great ship and takes a hell of a hit, the occ is a good ship and takes a hell of a hit too(to slow for my prefrences tho) your at most industry 5 and transport ships as the skills away from either(a whole week) also how the hell are you playing 2yrs and can fit all your stuff in a ~27km3 hauler?, i'd be lucky to get 1/3rd my stuff in there(not including ships)



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