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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16191
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 20:59:57 -
[331] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Flying in a battleship means wasted ISK and time. Cruiser blobs are where the action is. Most battleships do not/ can not survive them. Almost all null sec fleets use T2/T3 crusier doctrines. Just look at the killboards.
Im looking at the Imperium doctrines. Our main doctrine is currently Dominix fleet.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10059
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 21:21:42 -
[332] - Quote
Tusker Crazinski wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.
hmm 3 tornados? Or one Sig tanked ishkur with a small neut. I would not be quick but it would work.
=]|[=
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Aza Ebanu
HC - Serenity
105
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 21:27:34 -
[333] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:Flying in a battleship means wasted ISK and time. Cruiser blobs are where the action is. Most battleships do not/ can not survive them. Almost all null sec fleets use T2/T3 crusier doctrines. Just look at the killboards. Im looking at the Imperium doctrines. Our main doctrine is currently Dominix fleet. I'm sure it is. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 23:47:42 -
[334] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.
Ashimmu and 1-2 Svipuls. You're welcome. Also works against marauders solo farming c4s.
Is that really all it takes to down a Paladin? If so then the passive Rattlers are far and away the best ships for soloing C4's. |
Aza Ebanu
HC - Serenity
113
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 23:50:17 -
[335] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.
Ashimmu and 1-2 Svipuls. You're welcome. Also works against marauders solo farming c4s. Is that really all it takes to down a Paladin? If so then the passive Rattlers are far and away the best ships for soloing C4's. But we aren't talking about t2 battleships are we? |
Blackfeathers
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 23:56:30 -
[336] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Tusker Crazinski wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.
hmm 3 tornados? Or one Sig tanked ishkur with a small neut. I would not be quick but it would work.
I don't think a small neut would be enough to turn off enough reps to make the Ishkur's dps matter. I suspect the Hype's drones or a lucky hit would finish the fight, or they'd be sitting around forever.
Nados - They don't have high enough sustained dps to kill BS's unless there are more of them.
Ashimuu + svipuls *Shrug* I guess?
In any case - I think Battleships are a viable option for training. They offer a number of things to anyone who trains them. |
Aza Ebanu
HC - Serenity
115
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 23:59:19 -
[337] - Quote
Blackfeathers wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Tusker Crazinski wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.
hmm 3 tornados? Or one Sig tanked ishkur with a small neut. I would not be quick but it would work. I don't think a small neut would be enough to turn off enough reps to make the Ishkur's dps matter. I suspect the Hype's drones or a lucky hit would finish the fight, or they'd be sitting around forever. Nados - They don't have high enough sustained dps to kill BS's unless there are more of them. Ashimuu + svipuls *Shrug* I guess? In any case - I think Battleships are a viable option for training. They offer a number of things to anyone who trains them, like..... Come on. I know you can complete that statement. |
Blackfeathers
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 00:09:35 -
[338] - Quote
Blackfeathers wrote: Show me a single ship that will reliably alpha enemy logistics off the field. (One shot - not 2 or 3 - if there's one logi, there will be more - so multiple shots can be repped through.) Need a Maelstrom or Tempest for this. Mega? I dunno - I haven't done much with those.
Show me a ship that can neut out an enemy triage carrier while being focused by an enemy fleet? Need a Geddon for this, and it contributes dps or ewar drones to the fight as well.
Then there are spider tank domis... find me three ships that will tank and dps as well as those for equitable cost and skillpoint investment.
You need a T1 Battleship to AoE jam a fleet and survive. Scorpion. The alternative is many cruisers or frigs.
You need Battleships to pipe-bomb a fleet. (Unless you are going to dump caps/supers to pipe-bomb - which is far more skill / cost intensive)
You need a battleship to hit at extreme (200-250km - Entosis sov, this may become a thing) range. Rokh etc.
Then, training Battleships gets you Pirate battleships, Marauders, Blops, Faction Battleships, and leads nicely into dreads. Training cruisers won't get you those - so you need to train BS.
Battleships wouldn't be the first thing I advise a newbro to train for - they are better off training for closer goals, and work their way towards the bigger things. I would definitely have battleships on the list of things to work to - ESPECIALLY if you are planning on Null / Wormhole life.
If you are in a position where moving isn't a big option (Entosis sov? No remote reps, so that buffer is gonna be important) Battleships will hold a field far easier than frigs, cruisers, dessies or BCs. And they'll do it cheaper.
If you have the guys - anything will work. If you have a limit on the number of guys you can bring, but need to fill many roles on the fly - Battleships have the utility to do this.
I'm not terribly experienced in pvp - but these are the things I would say Battleships are needed for.
Having said that, I would like to see Battleships warp a little faster - but rigs / macharial / lowslots / implants can fix this.
These?
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 00:10:24 -
[339] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Fairly certain this has become a troll. Pretty sure he knows he's wrong probably past page 2, but keeps moving the goal posts of his arguement to keep the conversation going.
Ive provided plenty of proof as well as others that ive killed everything smaller than a BS with my BS. This includes AF, 10mn T3d, cruisers, and BC. If i had a fight with a CS, im fairly sure i could win as well, except maybe against a sleip/claymore as those are extremely powerful ships when equipped with links/implants (most are).
I am a solo BS/BC pilot that flies in LS looking for fights, fighting blobs and generally being a pain in the ass to my targets. They cannot longpoint me to hold me. With current fit, i am extremely hard to jam and probe down. They have to dedicate scram fit ships which i will quite literally vaporize in a few shots. Right now im on a 18 person kill streak and am 5th on top character on the KB for typhoon FI (was 3rd but week changed).
So the whole arguement about BS dying to smaller things everytime is wrong. When you fly your BS with t1 fittings, no skill, and even poorer understanding of game mechanics, you die. As OP has experienced.
Note: When i say solo, i mean full on solo. No scouts, no links, no blob hiding 1j out.
A rare samurai eh, there are only a few people like you left in eve. Having a falcon, or logi in waiting when soloing is one thing, but a link booster is still a valid option for a true soloist, so nothing at all wrong with a link booster Stitch. My old 2012 toon died countlessly due to not having links, so today I don't go anywhere without them. Also could you send me a message in game about this statement you made "With current fit, i am extremely hard to jam and probe down". Almost everyone uses an ecm and logi ship in small gangs, please tell me how you overcome these cheap tactics when soloing in your BS/BC? |
Aza Ebanu
HC - Serenity
115
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 00:13:41 -
[340] - Quote
Blackfeathers wrote:Blackfeathers wrote: Show me a single ship that will reliably alpha enemy logistics off the field. (One shot - not 2 or 3 - if there's one logi, there will be more - so multiple shots can be repped through.) Need a Maelstrom or Tempest for this. Mega? I dunno - I haven't done much with those.
Show me a ship that can neut out an enemy triage carrier while being focused by an enemy fleet? Need a Geddon for this, and it contributes dps or ewar drones to the fight as well.
Then there are spider tank domis... find me three ships that will tank and dps as well as those for equitable cost and skillpoint investment.
You need a T1 Battleship to AoE jam a fleet and survive. Scorpion. The alternative is many cruisers or frigs.
You need Battleships to pipe-bomb a fleet. (Unless you are going to dump caps/supers to pipe-bomb - which is far more skill / cost intensive)
You need a battleship to hit at extreme (200-250km - Entosis sov, this may become a thing) range. Rokh etc.
Then, training Battleships gets you Pirate battleships, Marauders, Blops, Faction Battleships, and leads nicely into dreads. Training cruisers won't get you those - so you need to train BS.
Battleships wouldn't be the first thing I advise a newbro to train for - they are better off training for closer goals, and work their way towards the bigger things. I would definitely have battleships on the list of things to work to - ESPECIALLY if you are planning on Null / Wormhole life.
If you are in a position where moving isn't a big option (Entosis sov? No remote reps, so that buffer is gonna be important) Battleships will hold a field far easier than frigs, cruisers, dessies or BCs. And they'll do it cheaper.
If you have the guys - anything will work. If you have a limit on the number of guys you can bring, but need to fill many roles on the fly - Battleships have the utility to do this.
I'm not terribly experienced in pvp - but these are the things I would say Battleships are needed for.
Having said that, I would like to see Battleships warp a little faster - but rigs / macharial / lowslots / implants can fix this.
These? All those thingscould be done by a T2/T3 cruiser/BC/. Besides, that requires a fleet for half of those things, and it doesn't matter what you bring to the blob. |
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Blackfeathers
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 00:18:05 -
[341] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:Blackfeathers wrote: Show me a single ship that will reliably alpha enemy logistics off the field. (One shot - not 2 or 3 - if there's one logi, there will be more - so multiple shots can be repped through.) Need a Maelstrom or Tempest for this. Mega? I dunno - I haven't done much with those.
Show me a ship that can neut out an enemy triage carrier while being focused by an enemy fleet? Need a Geddon for this, and it contributes dps or ewar drones to the fight as well.
Then there are spider tank domis... find me three ships that will tank and dps as well as those for equitable cost and skillpoint investment.
You need a T1 Battleship to AoE jam a fleet and survive. Scorpion. The alternative is many cruisers or frigs.
You need Battleships to pipe-bomb a fleet. (Unless you are going to dump caps/supers to pipe-bomb - which is far more skill / cost intensive)
You need a battleship to hit at extreme (200-250km - Entosis sov, this may become a thing) range. Rokh etc.
Then, training Battleships gets you Pirate battleships, Marauders, Blops, Faction Battleships, and leads nicely into dreads. Training cruisers won't get you those - so you need to train BS.
Battleships wouldn't be the first thing I advise a newbro to train for - they are better off training for closer goals, and work their way towards the bigger things. I would definitely have battleships on the list of things to work to - ESPECIALLY if you are planning on Null / Wormhole life.
If you are in a position where moving isn't a big option (Entosis sov? No remote reps, so that buffer is gonna be important) Battleships will hold a field far easier than frigs, cruisers, dessies or BCs. And they'll do it cheaper.
If you have the guys - anything will work. If you have a limit on the number of guys you can bring, but need to fill many roles on the fly - Battleships have the utility to do this.
I'm not terribly experienced in pvp - but these are the things I would say Battleships are needed for.
Having said that, I would like to see Battleships warp a little faster - but rigs / macharial / lowslots / implants can fix this.
These? All those thingscould be done by a T2/T3 cruiser/BC/. Besides, that requires a fleet for half of those things, and it doesn't matter what you bring to the blob.
lol - ok. I got baited - this thread is still cool though - learnt lots about Battleships' capabilities that I didn't know before - gonna try some out |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 00:28:30 -
[342] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.
Ashimmu and 1-2 Svipuls. You're welcome. Also works against marauders solo farming c4s. Is that really all it takes to down a Paladin? If so then the passive Rattlers are far and away the best ships for soloing C4's. But we aren't talking about t2 battleships are we?
Who cares what YOU want to talk about. I'm using your thread to gain a wealth of knowledge about ships/tactics that I don't know about.
Bottom line is you regret that you trained BS and wished that you trained for T2/T3 cruisers, sucks to be you. You should have started playing this game with 3 or 4 alts just in case you make a mistake a year later.
I have many alts training for Paladins, Domis/Rattlers, Sleipnir/Abso, and this main here flies T3C's and down.
You started with just one char, regret it immensely wishing you had trained for a T2/T3C's and now can do nothing but whine about how terrible the ship you regret training for a year is to help you get over it. P-I-T-I-F-U-L-L |
Aza Ebanu
HC - Serenity
115
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 00:33:45 -
[343] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:[
Who cares what YOU want to talk about. I'm using your thread to gain a wealth of knowledge about ships/tactics that I don't know about.
Bottom line is you regret that you trained BS and wished that you trained for T2/T3 cruisers, sucks to be you. You should have started playing this game with 3 or 4 alts just in case you make a mistake a year later.
I have many alts training for Paladins, Domis/Rattlers, Sleipnir/Abso, and this main here flies T3C's and down.
You started with just one char, regret it immensely wishing you had trained for a T2/T3C's and now can do nothing but whine about how terrible the ship you regret training for a year is to help you get over it. P-I-T-I-F-U-L-L 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 01:22:31 -
[344] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:[
Who cares what YOU want to talk about. I'm using your thread to gain a wealth of knowledge about ships/tactics that I don't know about.
Bottom line is you regret that you trained BS and wished that you trained for T2/T3 cruisers, sucks to be you. You should have started playing this game with 3 or 4 alts just in case you make a mistake a year later.
I have many alts training for Paladins, Domis/Rattlers, Sleipnir/Abso, and this main here flies T3C's and down.
You started with just one char, regret it immensely wishing you had trained for a T2/T3C's and now can do nothing but whine about how terrible the ship you regret training for a year is to help you get over it. P-I-T-I-F-U-L-L 4. Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
Nor should never ending trolling should be tolerated. When a person trolls as long as you do, personal attacks will become UNAVOIDABLE.. And my statement wasn't a personal attack, it was my opinion on your constant whining and whimpering on not being able to fly a T2/T3C because you trained for the BS which you are agonizing over atm.
Whining in the threads isn't a wise way of relieving your pain of not being able to fly the T2/T3C's, the only way is for you to either start cross training into the T2/T3C class, start up another char that specializes in T2/T3C's, or go to eve bazaar and buy you a char that can fly them (assuming you got the iskies). |
Aza Ebanu
HC - Serenity
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 01:30:25 -
[345] - Quote
I am informing players that there are existing game mechanics that make it better to fly smaller ships. Most of the whining I have seen is from battleship supporters. I use killboard info to back up my point. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
426
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 01:51:43 -
[346] - Quote
I suspect one of the main reasons battleships have seemed irrelevant of late is the multi-year reign of the Ishtar as the king of the battlefield, with its ability to project battleship DPS at battleship engagement range whilst being utterly concerned with such nonsense as transversal, thus employing a devastating speed tank on top of a still outsized buffer, and bringing to the table a mobility which rendered the battleship class unable to compete.
I think we'll see more BS slugging matches as the sentry Ishtar becomes less of a dominant force at 100k+ range. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16197
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 03:50:26 -
[347] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:I am informing players that there are existing game mechanics that make it better to fly smaller ships. Most of the whining I have seen is from battleship supporters. I use killboard info to back up my point.
And we used video evidence that shows battleships ripping apart your t2/t3 cruisers with ease.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1062
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 05:44:38 -
[348] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:I am informing players that there are existing game mechanics that make it better to fly smaller ships. Most of the whining I have seen is from battleship supporters. I use killboard info to back up my point.
If you are so knowledgeable about game mechanics, why on earth was your ship fit like this?
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?eid=46920196
or this?
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?eid=47184851
And how could you lose a ship in .5 space fit like this?
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?eid=47184851
Because a pro mechanics guy like yourself would never undock with any of those.
Is it possible you made a mistake? Is it possible you don't have a clue how to fit a battleship? Is it possible that you aren't even skilled enough to properly fit a T1 battleship? |
Aza Ebanu
HC - Serenity
119
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 05:55:06 -
[349] - Quote
The thread is about why players should skill for something besides battleships. Not about my killboard. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1062
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 06:03:48 -
[350] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote: The thread is about why players should skill for something besides battleships. Not about my killboard.
NO, this thread is about YOU giving advice to players, when you have no experience to qualify that advice. You are not qualified to give that advice. It is bad advice. |
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1946
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 06:03:59 -
[351] - Quote
Blackfeathers wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Tusker Crazinski wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.
hmm 3 tornados? Or one Sig tanked ishkur with a small neut. I would not be quick but it would work. I don't think a small neut would be enough to turn off enough reps to make the Ishkur's dps matter. I suspect the Hype's drones or a lucky hit would finish the fight, or they'd be sitting around forever. Nados - They don't have high enough sustained dps to kill BS's unless there are more of them. Ashimuu + svipuls *Shrug* I guess? In any case - I think Battleships are a viable option for training. They offer a number of things to anyone who trains them.
Not to be a turd about it, but having some experience doing horrid things to battleships with an ishkur... the Hype has no drones after about 2 minutes tops. You kill them first as a frigate... always. After that, unless the beastie is more than cap stable that small neut combined with liberal application of Void WILL crack that nut open. As Ralph stated though, it's not a fast process. It's quite literally a death of a thousand cuts. If the BS has any buddies within ten jumps they can usually rescue them from this however. The Domi is actually much scarier to a frigate as those things can be a literal hive of frig killing drones.
I'm not arguing the validity of battleships though. The evidence of their effectiveness and versatility that's been presented in this thread is overwhelming. Most of them are as cheap as a T2 cruiser, cheaper in some cases.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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NightmareX
Lakagigar
609
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 06:12:11 -
[352] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Let's face it. T1 battleships are not superior in any way with all the T2/T3 cruisers, battlecruisers, and frigates running around. Again, that's just your own opinion after the few years you have been playing. You don't have the experience enough yet to say if the Battleships are any sub-par to T2/T3 cruisers, battlecruisers, and frigates.
Battleships are superior in many ways over T2/T3 cruisers, battlecruisers, and frigates. It just depends on what you are going to do.
Aza Ebanu wrote:The saddest part: a blob of smaller ships easily overwhelms them. Now blobs of medium sized hulls are the most effective, as numerous killboards demonstrate. I invite all naysayers to just look at the killboards. How many people are getting kills with battleships, vs cruiser gangs? There is a reason for this. I can guarantee you that a fleet of 4 Megathrons is going to massacre a Cruiser fleet of 15 peoples if the Megathrons have fitted their ships for that type of fights.
Lets twist you argument a little. You say that a blob of smaller ships easily overwhelms a battleship?
What if you try to bring a single cruiser to a single battleship to see how that goes instead?
I'm sure you you know that you comparsion doesn't work, because if i decide to bring a blob of 15 Battleships and 5 Logistics, you need at least 60 cruisers to pose any danger to us. So you need 60 peoples while we need 20.
Tru 20 Battleships vs 20 Cruisers without any logistics on both sides. Then lets see who will win here. Yes, the Battleship fleet will massacre the Cruiser fleet.
Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:
1: Asteroid Madness
2: Clash of the Empires
3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
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Aza Ebanu
HC - Serenity
119
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 06:13:30 -
[353] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote: The thread is about why players should skill for something besides battleships. Not about my killboard.
NO, this thread is about YOU giving advice to players, when you have no experience to qualify that advice. You are not qualified to give that advice. It is bad advice. How do you know? because I am not on video? because you think this is my only character. Everyone else's killboard says it all. Don't fly battleships. |
Tusker Crazinski
Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels
78
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 06:14:31 -
[354] - Quote
Blackfeathers wrote: Nados - They don't have high enough sustained dps to kill BS's unless there are more of them.
I killed a triple rep myrm on my own while solo roaming in a nado. Yes; I know that solo tornados are laughably dumb, I have about 20 tornado fail mails to prove it.
but if the stars and the moon align and you so happen to come across an active tanked anything while in a 1400 fit tornado, good time will ensue.
3 tornados will hit for max damage against anything with a BS sig, fired at once they could delete 36000 EHP, without buffer mods you're bleeding into the next layer every salvo and hype will never catch a nado. kill the drones obviously so all the hype has to fight back with in its blaster which can project well past heated long point range, but you could just juggle points and pull range.
also I've taken out a tripple reped hype with a gang of 4 players, 2 of which were wasted and sleep deprived. in caracals....... with venture tackle.
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NightmareX
Lakagigar
609
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 06:18:55 -
[355] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:How do you know? because I am not on video? because you think this is my only character? Everyone else's killboard says it all. Don't fly battleships. Your killboard says you have no experience in flying battleships while i do. So don't lie about that everyones killboard says it, because mine don't.
And with my experience in flying battleships all since 2005, i can pretty much say that you are wrong about battleships here.
You have got evidenced after evidences that we are right about Battleships. How many evidences do you need before you are happy?
Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:
1: Asteroid Madness
2: Clash of the Empires
3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1062
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 06:43:10 -
[356] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:RavenPaine wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote: The thread is about why players should skill for something besides battleships. Not about my killboard.
NO, this thread is about YOU giving advice to players, when you have no experience to qualify that advice. You are not qualified to give that advice. It is bad advice. How do you know? because I am not on video? because you think this is my only character? Everyone else's killboard says it all. Don't fly battleships.
I know because of those fits. You could have 5 characters for all I know. You might be a great miner, or a great trader, or the best freighter pilot in all of EVE. But those fits show that you have zero knowledge of BS fitting and next to nothing of PvP experience.
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Blackfeathers
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 06:53:52 -
[357] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Tusker Crazinski wrote:Blackfeathers wrote:At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.
hmm 3 tornados? Or one Sig tanked ishkur with a small neut. I would not be quick but it would work. I don't think a small neut would be enough to turn off enough reps to make the Ishkur's dps matter. I suspect the Hype's drones or a lucky hit would finish the fight, or they'd be sitting around forever. Nados - They don't have high enough sustained dps to kill BS's unless there are more of them. Ashimuu + svipuls *Shrug* I guess? In any case - I think Battleships are a viable option for training. They offer a number of things to anyone who trains them. Not to be a turd about it, but having some experience doing horrid things to battleships with an ishkur... the Hype has no drones after about 2 minutes tops. You kill them first as a frigate... always. After that, unless the beastie is more than cap stable that small neut combined with liberal application of Void WILL crack that nut open. As Ralph stated though, it's not a fast process. It's quite literally a death of a thousand cuts. If the BS has any buddies within ten jumps they can usually rescue them from this however. The Domi is actually much scarier to a frigate as those things can be a literal hive of frig killing drones. I'm not arguing the validity of battleships though. The evidence of their effectiveness and versatility that's been presented in this thread is overwhelming. Most of them are as cheap as a T2 cruiser, cheaper in some cases. Edit: and MUCH cheaper than a well fit T3.
Well, Today I learned!
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Aeon Ecko
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.06.14 08:38:39 -
[358] - Quote
This thread deserves an oscar. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1199
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Posted - 2015.06.14 08:52:43 -
[359] - Quote
Tusker Crazinski wrote:Blackfeathers wrote: Nados - They don't have high enough sustained dps to kill BS's unless there are more of them.
I killed a triple rep myrm on my own while solo roaming in a nado. Yes; I know that solo tornados are laughably dumb, I have about 20 tornado fail mails to prove it. but if the stars and the moon align and you so happen to come across an active tanked anything while in a 1400 fit tornado, good time will ensue. 3 tornados will hit for max damage against anything with a BS sig, fired at once they could delete 36000 EHP, without buffer mods you're bleeding into the next layer every salvo and hype will never catch a nado. kill the drones obviously so all the hype has to fight back with in its blaster which can project well past heated long point range, but you could just juggle points and pull range. also I've taken out a tripple reped hype with a gang of 4 players, 2 of which were wasted and sleep deprived. in caracals....... with venture tackle.
at which point you just... warp off
or in point range a hype does damage with null to a tornado. then again the nados might win the damage race. then again arty doesn't have the best tracking. A MJD would also be a rather strong move.
hype has pretty bad cap regen so the ishkur will probably wear it down eventually. Those things are very resilient, plus their resists are pretty awesome. that said scale it up a bit, and well, I don't think it looks good for the ishkurs. eventually one or more of the hypes is going to get good transversial, and/or have neuts to shut down the ishkur.
whoever said ashimmu is probably right, but I would have said curse. don't know if I like being in unmodified medium neut range of a hype in a cruiser.
Not sure a hypothetical 1vN is even useful. Just look at burner missions, can come up with a gimicky setup that can beat just about anything. and then there is the does it scale test.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1199
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Posted - 2015.06.14 08:55:22 -
[360] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:I am informing players that there are existing game mechanics that make it better to fly smaller ships. Most of the whining I have seen is from battleship supporters. I use killboard info to back up my point.
I am informing players that there are existing game mechanics that make it better to fly larger ships. Most of the whining I have seen is from the OP. I use killboard info to back up my point.
@ChainsawPlankto
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