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Frank Armour
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.05.16 02:56:52 -
[91] - Quote
I think I get it.
You're looking at Frigate and you're telling yourself, TIME TO TRAIN + Cost Associated = Manageable, fun and a good overall ship to use in any circumstance.
You're looking at Cruiser and you're telling yourself, TIME TO TRAIN + Cost Associated = Manageable, fun and a good overall ship to use in many circumstance.
And the list goes on and on until you hit Battleships!
TIME TO TRAIN + Cost Associated = UnManageable, NO fun and only needed in very very "very" special occasion which also create the equation --> TIME TO TRAIN (a.k.a. The years long training) + Cost associated = Finally get to use your nice BS once a month if you're really driven/lucky or just in a good corp)
I'm new to the game (only 2 months in) and my goal is to fly Battleship/Marauder. That's the whole reason I was reading this post. And after hearing both side of the battle... I'm more determined to get a BS/Mar than ever!
I love BS! They are big slow ass ships that are just like the Defensive Lineman in Football. You can't expect them to run fast or catch the ball but they're just as essential. Although this comparison isn't the greatest, you should'nt expect anything else from them.
Go forward into an other hull. Get yourself all kinds of other sexy ships. All this thread has told anyone is that you don't like Battleships cause if you did, you'd be like all the others defending the BS for his use. Accepting the fact it's not the greatest ship but knowing improvement could be made.
And as far as the training time... I'm starting to realize that any ship could take an incredible amount of Skill point/Time if you're dedicated to it!
Just my 2cents |
Daerrol
Quantum Singularities Half Massed
159
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Posted - 2015.05.16 03:24:54 -
[92] - Quote
3 really fun fights I've ever been in: Taking on Lazorhawks in Apoc Navies Fighting Capitals in a Bhaalgorn Soloing in an armageddon
BS don't happen much but when they do 100% pure sex |
Wander Prian
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
67
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Posted - 2015.05.16 11:38:52 -
[93] - Quote
Using a battleship might not be the most common choice to go for, but there are some situations that a battleship is the right tool to use. I can kinda agree that newer players might want to stick to smaller ships at first, but I don't go telling them to NOT train battleships. Eve is a game of knowledge. You need to know what tool (ship) to use to solve a problem.
As a wormhole-dweller, we have to think about the mass of the fleet we bring through a wormhole. You don't usually see many battleships in our fleet's, but there are a few that are quite often seen in fleets, because they do something that no other ship can. Personally I love flying Bhaalgorns in pvp. Or the Armageddon. I've seen people use the Nestor as a replacement for guardians. And of course there is the Vindicator for t3-melting dps and the ability to make a dreadnaught hit a frigate |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
255
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:39:01 -
[94] - Quote
Frank Armour wrote:I think I get it.
You're looking at Frigate and you're telling yourself, TIME TO TRAIN + Cost Associated = Manageable, fun and a good overall ship to use in any circumstance.
You're looking at Cruiser and you're telling yourself, TIME TO TRAIN + Cost Associated = Manageable, fun and a good overall ship to use in many circumstance.
And the list goes on and on until you hit Battleships!
TIME TO TRAIN + Cost Associated = UnManageable, NO fun and only needed in very very "very" special occasion which also create the equation --> TIME TO TRAIN (a.k.a. The years long training) + Cost associated = Finally get to use your nice BS once a month if you're really driven/lucky or just in a good corp)
I'm new to the game (only 2 months in) and my goal is to fly Battleship/Marauder. That's the whole reason I was reading this post. And after hearing both side of the battle... I'm more determined to get a BS/Mar than ever!
I love BS! They are big slow ass ships that are just like the Defensive Lineman in Football. You can't expect them to run fast or catch the ball but they're just as essential. Although this comparison isn't the greatest, you should'nt expect anything else from them.
Go forward into an other hull. Get yourself all kinds of other sexy ships. All this thread has told anyone is that you don't like Battleships cause if you did, you'd be like all the others defending the BS for his use. Accepting the fact it's not the greatest ship but knowing improvement could be made.
And as far as the training time... I'm starting to realize that any ship could take an incredible amount of Skill point/Time if you're dedicated to it!
Just my 2cents I dont know where you got 'essential' from as you generally see fleets and gangs without any. But hey you can say that about most things. So im not sure anything is 'essential' except for logi. Anyway id say battleships are a tad too niche currently and mostly seeing use in pve is an unfortunate distinction they posses. |
Stitch Kaneland
Trust Doesn't Rust Triumvirate.
248
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Posted - 2015.05.16 14:50:04 -
[95] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Frank Armour wrote:I think I get it.
You're looking at Frigate and you're telling yourself, TIME TO TRAIN + Cost Associated = Manageable, fun and a good overall ship to use in any circumstance.
You're looking at Cruiser and you're telling yourself, TIME TO TRAIN + Cost Associated = Manageable, fun and a good overall ship to use in many circumstance.
And the list goes on and on until you hit Battleships!
TIME TO TRAIN + Cost Associated = UnManageable, NO fun and only needed in very very "very" special occasion which also create the equation --> TIME TO TRAIN (a.k.a. The years long training) + Cost associated = Finally get to use your nice BS once a month if you're really driven/lucky or just in a good corp)
I'm new to the game (only 2 months in) and my goal is to fly Battleship/Marauder. That's the whole reason I was reading this post. And after hearing both side of the battle... I'm more determined to get a BS/Mar than ever!
I love BS! They are big slow ass ships that are just like the Defensive Lineman in Football. You can't expect them to run fast or catch the ball but they're just as essential. Although this comparison isn't the greatest, you should'nt expect anything else from them.
Go forward into an other hull. Get yourself all kinds of other sexy ships. All this thread has told anyone is that you don't like Battleships cause if you did, you'd be like all the others defending the BS for his use. Accepting the fact it's not the greatest ship but knowing improvement could be made.
And as far as the training time... I'm starting to realize that any ship could take an incredible amount of Skill point/Time if you're dedicated to it!
Just my 2cents I dont know where you got 'essential' from as you generally see fleets and gangs without any. But hey you can say that about most things. So im not sure anything is 'essential' except for logi. Anyway id say battleships are a tad too niche currently and mostly seeing use in pve is an unfortunate distinction they posses.
Theyre niche` because barely anyone flies BCs anymore. If BCs could actually counter cruisers effectively, then BCs would be more common. Meaning BS have a role to fill by killing BCs. Currently, people ignore BCs and just train t2/t3 cruisers. That is why its cruisers online atm.
The ship food chain is broken because of BCs which has put BS in niche' roles since their targets of oppertunity are no where to be found.
Shameless plug incoming: see thread in my sig.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Stitch Kaneland
Trust Doesn't Rust Triumvirate.
248
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Posted - 2015.05.16 15:05:30 -
[96] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:big miker wrote:big miker wrote:
They just need some support to shine via either webbing ships, links or anything else that let's them apply damage more easily.
Yeah, I was being sarcastic, in the first clip of the first video you used 3 of the 5 recommendations I stated yesterday that OP dismissed because he knows more than me. You need to re read the thread. While I appreciate big miker's input, hitting smaller is only a small part of my discussion. Again, any ship can fit/drone/etc... to take on another ship. Just why would you use a battleship to do it ?
Because unlike cruisers (excluding t3 as theyre their own monster) a BS has a far better tank/buffer than almost any cruiser. Also cruisers cannot fit heavy neuts (except a gimped curse).
If setup properly, a BS will obliterate frigs/cruisers. But, you have to use webs/neuts and sometimes TP to accomplish that. I killed a ranis last night in about 2 shots in my phoon. Then killed an atron trying to be funny by flying by really fast, but thx to heavy neut.. he ran out of cap 12km from me and popped. Not these are not hard or elite pvp kills by any means. But thats about as small you can get and still had successful kills.
When things get crazy and i have 5-10 people on field trying to kill me, thats when that BS tank starts to shine.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
293
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Posted - 2015.05.16 15:21:10 -
[97] - Quote
As long as the rattlesnake exists this argument as a whole is bullshit. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1016
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Posted - 2015.05.16 17:06:29 -
[98] - Quote
This is one of the best pilots in the game, flying one of the fastest frigates in the game. I mean, this guy can fly a ship. But guess who ruined his day in this fight? The battleship.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?eid=26386714
I have to say, I don't like the current meta of frigates online, but most BS pilots know what it takes to kill frigates, and it can be done. I've had decent success with a duel neut Tempest, scram/web/TP/neut = blap, but lots of ships can do the job.
The problem is blobs. Even a tiny fleet of frigates and destroyers can pump out amazing DPS. By the time you kill 2 or 3 of them you're in trouble.
They killed the Drake, because at one point, a blob of them was considered OP. They should do the same to little ships. |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
53
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Posted - 2015.05.17 02:31:14 -
[99] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:big miker wrote:big miker wrote:
They just need some support to shine via either webbing ships, links or anything else that let's them apply damage more easily.
Yeah, I was being sarcastic, in the first clip of the first video you used 3 of the 5 recommendations I stated yesterday that OP dismissed because he knows more than me. You need to re read the thread. While I appreciate big miker's input, hitting smaller is only a small part of my discussion. Again, any ship can fit/drone/etc... to take on another ship. Just why would you use a battleship to do it ? Because unlike cruisers (excluding t3 as theyre their own monster) a BS has a far better tank/buffer than almost any cruiser. Also cruisers cannot fit heavy neuts (except a gimped curse). If setup properly, a BS will obliterate frigs/cruisers. But, you have to use webs/neuts and sometimes TP to accomplish that. I killed a ranis last night in about 2 shots in my phoon. Then killed an atron trying to be funny by flying by really fast, but thx to heavy neut.. he ran out of cap 12km from me and popped. Not these are not hard or elite pvp kills by any means. But thats about as small you can get and still had successful kills. When things get crazy and i have 5-10 people on field trying to kill me, thats when that BS tank starts to shine.
Nope. I am not going to let you not include T3s. Again if you re read the first post you will see that I couldn't care less about what fit you used to kill a frig or cruiser, just that for the SP invested, battleships don't do anything smaller ships or cap ship can do better. Except for high sec structure fights/PVE.
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Valkin Mordirc
992
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Posted - 2015.05.17 03:19:33 -
[100] - Quote
You know with your sort of tenacity not to give in to literally EVERYONE telling you, that Battleships are worth while, you cling to your own opinion that they are not.
If you only put that sort of attitude into becoming a better Battleship pilot.
#DeleteTheWeak
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15914
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Posted - 2015.05.17 11:05:36 -
[101] - Quote
What a silly thread.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.18 08:23:47 -
[102] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote: Nope. I am not going to let you not include T3s. Again if you re read the first post you will see that I couldn't care less about what fit you used to kill a frig or cruiser, just that for the SP invested, battleships don't do anything smaller ships or cap ship can do better. Except for high sec structure fights/PVE.
Ok ok so T3's ... they do a lot of things too well (needs moar nerf), and some do specific things really really well which make FC's go cross eyed.
But theyre still not the end all. And SP wise there isnt much between a T3 and a BS....
You say that there is always another ship that will do the job better than a BS... fine... Some fleet ships that are pretty basic...
Please show me a sub cap that isnt a BS that can hit with an alpha 10000dmg out to 70km with over 100k hp? (Maelstrom)
Or perhaps 800dps at 80km with over 150k hp? (Abaddon)
Wont touch Navy or faction ships because that might be a bit unfair... and cost seems to be a problem for you... (no srp?)
No Worries
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
139
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Posted - 2015.05.18 08:58:15 -
[103] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote: snark!
Look. I am not saying CCP needs to change anything. I am recommending to players, hopefully newer ones, instead of taking the mission ship route, take the lesser traveled T2/T3 route. They will get the superior ship faster and be able to do more fun EVE stuff than if they scaled to battleship. It is not about my ship loss rate or proper fittings. It is about being able to do more with our time as players and enjoying all of EVE.
are you serious? lesser traveled than T3? if you belong to a group that has a "home" and assets to defend then you better have that BS trained to level 5 or you'll loose it.
Just Add Water
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1238
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Posted - 2015.05.18 18:30:51 -
[104] - Quote
Quote:You wanna snipe? Use the large guns BC Tanking? Just outmaneuver them a la (T2/T3) Wanna clear out smaller ships? Use Amarr or Gallente crusier or frig You wanna kill other battleships? Use cap ships
You want to get sniped back? Fly a weak tank BC. Speed tank? Web/point. Hitting flies with a sledgehammer is for idiots. That hardly means sledgehammers are useless. Cap ships dont go in hisec and most wspace, and are gankbait when they do. Ironically, to battleships.
As I said, your lack of understanding of mechanics constitutes a small novel. I suggest Eve U.
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
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Joe Atei
Aes Dei Asher
10
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Posted - 2015.05.18 19:41:32 -
[105] - Quote
Meh, some people would argue that I'm a battleship pilot (sub cap pilot really), but I never once felt like they were weak. Maybe people are just bad at using them. |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
55
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Posted - 2015.05.18 21:06:07 -
[106] - Quote
On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15922
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Posted - 2015.05.18 21:08:43 -
[107] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
Because both of those melt before a well fitted and flown battleship.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
55
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Posted - 2015.05.18 21:24:22 -
[108] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
Because both of those melt before a well fitted and flown battleship.
Dismissed as circumstantial. |
Paranoid Loyd
5208
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Posted - 2015.05.18 21:26:59 -
[109] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:baltec1 wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
Because both of those melt before a well fitted and flown battleship. Dismissed as circumstantial. Dismissed as clueless.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
610
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Posted - 2015.05.18 21:34:23 -
[110] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:I will say it again. A fleet of properly fit ships is always going to to be better than a solo poorly fit ship. A fleet of properly fit ships is not always better than a fleet of properly fit other ships.
hey i see alot of people using battleships to counter the ishtar, thats a t2 cruiser so whats the crack?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1007
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Posted - 2015.05.18 21:36:01 -
[111] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:What a silly thread.
Coming from a guy that has never actually flown a BS. The nerve.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15924
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Posted - 2015.05.18 22:00:44 -
[112] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Dismissed as circumstantial.
We just put Delve to the torch again with domi fleet as our primary doctrine.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15924
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Posted - 2015.05.18 22:04:13 -
[113] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:baltec1 wrote:What a silly thread. Coming from a guy that has never actually flown a BS. The nerve.
Turns out he has. Two poorly fitted PVE battleships that were killed by a solo destroyer and a fleet with a token drake
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Azn
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2015.05.18 23:34:11 -
[114] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Shot some red crosses in lowsec in my terrible BS and got owned by a Svipul.
I'm pretty pissed because I should have been able to beat him, after all I paid more for my ship and skills / awareness / experience mean nothing.
Here's what you should do if you're terrible. Don't train for battleships. In fact, don't train for anything bigger than a frigate.
Am I close? |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1241
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Posted - 2015.05.19 02:38:47 -
[115] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
FFS.
Because battleships do significantly more damage, and can receive more damage, that's why.
I don't really give 2 ***** about paper DPS myself. We're talking real time in game damage.
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1132
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Posted - 2015.05.19 05:54:09 -
[116] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:What a silly thread.
I remember writing a post about for the SP invested t1 frigs are way better than t3 cruisers, but I think I forgot to hit post, and/or thought it was just too silly and deleted it... the longer this thread goes on the less silly it seems.
@ChainsawPlankto
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1216
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Posted - 2015.05.19 06:49:39 -
[117] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:baltec1 wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
Because both of those melt before a well fitted and flown battleship. Dismissed as circumstantial.
Perhaps some hard evidence?
Or should I say some MORE since you ignored the golem stomping ALL THE THINGS.
Also, dismissing Baltecs advice on battleships is like ignoring a doctor in favour of listening to the guy in the park shouting at the trees... |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.19 07:55:56 -
[118] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
Theoretic fleets??? Battleship fleets are REAL dude
Paper Dps? They DO put out a lot of dps... is pretty easy to compensate for tracking or similar in a fleet, which means your apparent paper dps suddenly starts smashing all the little cruisers.
No Worries
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Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
55
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Posted - 2015.05.19 08:20:37 -
[119] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:baltec1 wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
Because both of those melt before a well fitted and flown battleship. Dismissed as circumstantial. Perhaps some hard evidence?Or should I say some MORE since you ignored the golem stomping ALL THE THINGS. Also, dismissing Baltecs advice on battleships is like ignoring a doctor in favour of listening to the guy in the park shouting at the trees... I didn't dismiss him out a lack of respect. I respect all of the folks on this forum, but his reply was off topic. I don't care what you fit the ship with, or for what role. I am just saying it isn't the ship the designers make it out to be. They are fun to fly, but are largely impractical for too much of the game. Especially for the skill points required. |
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
611
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Posted - 2015.05.19 08:23:03 -
[120] - Quote
best thing i ever done was train battleship to lvl 5, fck t3's when you have marauders and blops
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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