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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15931
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Posted - 2015.05.19 09:31:26 -
[121] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote: I didn't dismiss him out a lack of respect. I respect all of the folks on this forum, but his reply was off topic. I don't care what you fit the ship with, or for what role. I am just saying it isn't the ship the designers make it out to be. They are fun to fly, but are largely impractical for too much of the game. Especially for the skill points required.
How was it off topic?
You said fly destroyers and BC, I said battleships will crush them. That is entirely on topic.
Also how are they impractical?
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Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
82
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Posted - 2015.05.19 10:05:21 -
[122] - Quote
I have only recently got into BS PvP but been having fun along with reasonable success in the Dominix. The only issue i have with them is the outright miserable lock time on anything smaller than a cruiser. Whilst Sebo's are an option the mids are very precious for much needed utility and you can rarely afford the luxury to fit one. That said they are not platforms to be taking out frigates and they might end up being too strong if you buffed the lock time.
Perhaps I am wearing rose tinted glasses however since the Domi is clearly one of the best choices for solo/small gang, (good application/good slot layout) but i have yet to think they are bad in anyway with well thought out fits. |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
55
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Posted - 2015.05.19 10:31:56 -
[123] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:I have only recently got into BS PvP but been having fun along with reasonable success in the Dominix. The only issue i have with them is the outright miserable lock time on anything smaller than a cruiser. Whilst Sebo's are an option the mids are very precious for much needed utility and you can rarely afford the luxury to fit one. That said they are not platforms to be taking out frigates and they might end up being too strong if you buffed the lock time.
Perhaps I am wearing rose tinted glasses however since the Domi is clearly one of the best choices for solo/small gang, (good application/good slot layout) but i have yet to think they are bad in anyway with well thought out fits. The Domi is in a class of its own. It is a really good ship. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16396
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Posted - 2015.05.19 10:51:18 -
[124] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:I have only recently got into BS PvP but been having fun along with reasonable success in the Dominix. The only issue i have with them is the outright miserable lock time on anything smaller than a cruiser. Whilst Sebo's are an option the mids are very precious for much needed utility and you can rarely afford the luxury to fit one. That said they are not platforms to be taking out frigates and they might end up being too strong if you buffed the lock time.
Perhaps I am wearing rose tinted glasses however since the Domi is clearly one of the best choices for solo/small gang, (good application/good slot layout) but i have yet to think they are bad in anyway with well thought out fits.
Check out the geddon
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
297
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Posted - 2015.05.19 12:16:29 -
[125] - Quote
Or the phoon. |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.19 13:14:22 -
[126] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Check out the geddon
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Or the phoon.
Dont even get started on Pirate or Navy BattleShips....
No Worries
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
297
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Posted - 2015.05.19 13:58:50 -
[127] - Quote
No i think thats about it, domi, geddon and phoon, maybe raven. From navy an pirate stuff navy domi, mach and rattler - rest is terrible. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1241
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Posted - 2015.05.19 16:17:04 -
[128] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:afkalt wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:baltec1 wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
Because both of those melt before a well fitted and flown battleship. Dismissed as circumstantial. Perhaps some hard evidence?Or should I say some MORE since you ignored the golem stomping ALL THE THINGS. Also, dismissing Baltecs advice on battleships is like ignoring a doctor in favour of listening to the guy in the park shouting at the trees... I didn't dismiss him out a lack of respect. I respect all of the folks on this forum, but his reply was off topic. I don't care what you fit the ship with, or for what role. I am just saying it isn't the ship the designers make it out to be. They are fun to fly, but are largely impractical for too much of the game. Especially for the skill points required.
But you endorse the big BC's, which take 95% of the SP to effectively fly as a BS. Brilliant. I can see you sat down and did the math on this.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15932
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Posted - 2015.05.19 16:21:39 -
[129] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:No i think thats about it, domi, geddon and phoon, maybe raven. From navy an pirate stuff navy domi, mach and rattler - rest is terrible.
You missed out the mega, hype, apoc, scorpion, pest, navy pest, navy mega, kronos, golem and so on. Hell even the old maelstrom and rohk alpha fleets are still very viable in low and highsec wars.
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
615
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Posted - 2015.05.19 17:24:36 -
[130] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:No i think thats about it, domi, geddon and phoon, maybe raven. From navy an pirate stuff navy domi, mach and rattler - rest is terrible. You missed out the mega, hype, apoc, scorpion, pest, navy pest, navy mega, kronos, golem and so on. Hell even the old maelstrom and rohk alpha fleets are still very viable in low and highsec wars.
Ffs why does everyone forget the vargur, navy apoc, vindicator, paladin and phoon fleet issue
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
265
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Posted - 2015.05.19 18:07:01 -
[131] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:No i think thats about it, domi, geddon and phoon, maybe raven. From navy an pirate stuff navy domi, mach and rattler - rest is terrible. I dont see how you can dismiss the vindi. |
Klaus Tylar
Tylar United Freight
103
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Posted - 2015.05.19 19:22:19 -
[132] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:No i think thats about it, domi, geddon and phoon, maybe raven. From navy an pirate stuff navy domi, mach and rattler - rest is terrible.
I find your lack of Rokh on that list quite disturbing. |
Cetaphil Thrace
Mikagami
27
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Posted - 2015.05.19 21:27:07 -
[133] - Quote
I honestly don't know about you OP, but if a frig is approaching my Mach, its dead before it can get 50km. If not it will quickly die to drones. As for multiple frigs, well same fate cause it only takes one shot from the mach. just sayin |
Valkin Mordirc
1006
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Posted - 2015.05.19 23:29:30 -
[134] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:No i think thats about it, domi, geddon and phoon, maybe raven. From navy an pirate stuff navy domi, mach and rattler - rest is terrible.
So Bhalgorn, Vindi, Mach, from the private line are ****?
....Why?
#DeleteTheWeak
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Derrick Diggler
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.05.20 00:05:23 -
[135] - Quote
This is such a silly thread. but ok.
So battleships are horrible and should not be trained.... Battleship fleets will get obliterated EVERY time by t3 fleets ....
Imperium : Dominix doctrine after Mega doctrine. Staples for any large fight. We have dunked quite a few t3 fleets. Just saying. TRI : Rattlesnake doctrine Provi Block : Nightmare doctrine NC. (or thereabouts) : Raven doctrine PL: TFI doctrine Lots of people flying Machariels as well. Either mixed in or as a stand alone. Also navy apocs are quite popular (I know CO2 flies those). Probably missing a few too.
To say battleships are bad because you do not like them is ... silly ... like this thread ... |
Tusker Crazinski
Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels
70
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Posted - 2015.05.20 03:25:22 -
[136] - Quote
Delete T3 anything, and remove bonused heavy and sentry drones from smaller ship classes.
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.20 09:33:22 -
[137] - Quote
All the navy and pirate BS have theyre strengths and uses (yes even the nestor... a bill isk hull tho lol)
My only issue with BS's are theyre vulnerability to Bombs, and slow allign/warp in general ... Everything else is just meta
No Worries
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15935
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Posted - 2015.05.21 20:55:06 -
[138] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:All the navy and pirate BS have theyre strengths and uses (yes even the nestor... a bill isk hull tho lol)
My only issue with BS's are theyre vulnerability to Bombs, and slow allign/warp in general ... Everything else is just meta
Armour BS fleets don't worry about bombs and align/warp times are easily delt with.
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Eridon Hermetz
Ghosts'n Stuff
31
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Posted - 2015.05.21 21:04:25 -
[139] - Quote
see the light guys , and fly black ops , they are completely fine in the current meta properly fitted/flyed !
how to not fly trough gate and lost time ? black ops and their ability to jump directly on top of your target ! bwahahaha |
Shin Katsumoto
Vulcan Industries Alternate Allegiance
5
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Posted - 2015.05.21 22:08:13 -
[140] - Quote
Battleships are large loot pinatas and CCP recently said that they will not be improving them so I guess they want them to be loot pinatas? And it makes sense too since many people want to fly a large shiny ship because it is large and shiny so that makes them the perfect loot pinatas.
They should have much better tank than they do. |
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Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
63
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Posted - 2015.05.22 06:12:53 -
[141] - Quote
Seeing as how speed plays such a large role in tanking of this game, battleships tank the least from aggregate damage in any fight. Frigates, because of a smaller sig rad and possibly faster speed tank the most in aggregate damage.
To answer the fleet of battleships v. the fleet of frigates question. A fleet of battleships would have to fit specifically to shoot smaller ships to survive (obviously) However when fleet compositions change with a mix of smaller and larger (non battleships), the battleship fleet's chances of winning drop exponentially.
In other words if a battlship fits to fight frigates, it will die to larger ships. Obvious exceptions include: drone boats, ships with tracking and neut bonuses. The battleships without such bonuses become huge liabilities.
The disadvantage is not the fit, but how sig/speed effect damage. For the skill points smaller ships can tanke easier than larger ships because they should take less damage. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1062
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Posted - 2015.05.22 10:11:35 -
[142] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:Seeing as how speed plays such a large role in tanking of this game, battleships tank the least from aggregate damage in any fight. Frigates, because of a smaller sig rad and possibly faster speed tank the most in aggregate damage.
To answer the fleet of battleships v. the fleet of frigates question. A fleet of battleships would have to fit specifically to shoot smaller ships to survive (obviously) However when fleet compositions change with a mix of smaller and larger (non battleships), the battleship fleet's chances of winning drop exponentially.
In other words if a battlship fits to fight frigates, it will die to larger ships. Obvious exceptions include: drone boats, ships with tracking and neut bonuses. The battleships without such bonuses become huge liabilities.
The disadvantage is not the fit, but how sig/speed effect damage. For the skill points smaller ships can tanke easier than larger ships because they should take less damage.
If 2 such fleets collide and the BS pilots aren't completely braindead, then frigs will die by the second due to webs and paints. You can outrun the tracking of one BS, but you can't keep transversal up on a gang of them while dualwebbed and dualpainted.
Just Huginn/Rapier/Loki DDD up for drone bunny assign, free fire on frigs :D No, frigs don't tank through 150 warrior IIs, and smartbombing frigs are rare. |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.22 10:38:03 -
[143] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:All the navy and pirate BS have theyre strengths and uses (yes even the nestor... a bill isk hull tho lol)
My only issue with BS's are theyre vulnerability to Bombs, and slow allign/warp in general ... Everything else is just meta
Armour BS fleets don't worry about bombs and align/warp times are easily delt with.
Depends on the number of bombs And i mean mainly for moving from system to system (finding fights), JB's and titans arent available all the time
Aza Ebanu wrote:Seeing as how speed plays such a large role in tanking of this game, battleships tank the least from aggregate damage in any fight. Frigates, because of a smaller sig rad and possibly faster speed tank the most in aggregate damage.
To answer the fleet of battleships v. the fleet of frigates question. A fleet of battleships would have to fit specifically to shoot smaller ships to survive (obviously) However when fleet compositions change with a mix of smaller and larger (non battleships), the battleship fleet's chances of winning drop exponentially.
In other words if a battlship fits to fight frigates, it will die to larger ships. Obvious exceptions include: drone boats, ships with tracking and neut bonuses. The battleships without such bonuses become huge liabilities.
The disadvantage is not the fit, but how sig/speed effect damage. For the skill points smaller ships can tanke easier than larger ships because they should take less damage.
duuuuuuuuuuude!!! what are you on?
A fleet BS will (at least) have 10 to 15 TIMES the hitpoints of the best tanked frigate... Better Logistic support... And support ships that will allow said battleships to pwn every frigate that comes close.... And thats not refitting at all to deal with smaller ships....
But heres the main reason why battleships dont worry about frigates... MOST can at the very least field a flight of light drones (no bonuses)... multiply that by the number of battleships... assign to say.... a hic? Lach? Hug?and suddenly you have Hundreds of drones buzzing around your head. Most battleships wont even waste the ammo to shoot you.
No Worries
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15940
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Posted - 2015.05.22 13:12:38 -
[144] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Depends on the number of bombs
It would take over 100 bombs to take out an armour BS fleet.
ChromeStriker wrote:And i mean mainly for moving from system to system (finding fights), JB's and titans arent available all the time
I have BS that give assault frigates a run for their money.
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Vibiana
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2015.05.22 13:58:48 -
[145] - Quote
You mean meta/t2 fit domi? Sure it is cheap and bang of the buck.
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:03:03 -
[146] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:Depends on the number of bombs It would take over 100 bombs to take out an armour BS fleet. ChromeStriker wrote:And i mean mainly for moving from system to system (finding fights), JB's and titans arent available all the time I have BS that give assault frigates a run for their money.
... 48 ish against max tanked abbadons... in 8 wings of 6....
yes yes we all have a nano battleship... tbh however much fun that is... would rather go that fast and not waste the slots... a guy can dream
No Worries
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1241
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:39:03 -
[147] - Quote
A fleet of frigates vs a fleet of battleships isn't a question, its a ridiculous, unpractical hypothetical. As I've already stated, a BS can be part of a well balanced fleet. A bowl of cereal is not a nutritious breakfast. Its part of a well balanced breakfast. And it would be a stalemate at very best no matter how the BS's were fit, because Drones. What do you think, the cluster of battleships is going to all be within 15k of the center of the mass? so that no frig is within range of any battleship? and no BS has drones? or a web? Give me a break.
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1031
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Posted - 2015.05.22 17:37:07 -
[148] - Quote
I just want to say, I've been on a BS roam where we had a mixed fleet (Kitchen Sink) of random BS. 8 to 10 of us, I can't really remember. We came across a 15 to 18 man frigate fleet with 1 RR Domi. What I do remember is, the frigates popped so fast, you couldn't call primaries. Just target a random and start shooting. Saved the Domi for last. With a couple bumps, it was all over before he made it back to the gate.
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Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
63
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Posted - 2015.05.22 18:56:05 -
[149] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote:Seeing as how speed plays such a large role in tanking of this game, battleships tank the least from aggregate damage in any fight. Frigates, because of a smaller sig rad and possibly faster speed tank the most in aggregate damage.
To answer the fleet of battleships v. the fleet of frigates question. A fleet of battleships would have to fit specifically to shoot smaller ships to survive (obviously) However when fleet compositions change with a mix of smaller and larger (non battleships), the battleship fleet's chances of winning drop exponentially.
In other words if a battlship fits to fight frigates, it will die to larger ships. Obvious exceptions include: drone boats, ships with tracking and neut bonuses. The battleships without such bonuses become huge liabilities.
The disadvantage is not the fit, but how sig/speed effect damage. For the skill points smaller ships can tanke easier than larger ships because they should take less damage. If 2 such fleets collide and the BS pilots aren't completely braindead, then frigs will die by the second due to webs and paints. You can outrun the tracking of one BS, but you can't keep transversal up on a gang of them while dualwebbed and dualpainted. Just Huginn/Rapier/Loki DDD up for drone bunny assign, free fire on frigs :D No, frigs don't tank through 150 warrior IIs, and smartbombing frigs are rare.
1. Falcon jam the webbing BS, sensor damp the BS. 2. It wont live long enough to web anything. Battleships cannot tank aggregate damage effectively. 3. Rinse repeat |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
63
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Posted - 2015.05.22 19:00:02 -
[150] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:A fleet of frigates vs a fleet of battleships isn't a question, its a ridiculous, unpractical hypothetical. As I've already stated, a BS can be part of a well balanced fleet. A bowl of cereal is not a nutritious breakfast. Its part of a well balanced breakfast. And it would be a stalemate at very best no matter how the BS's were fit, because Drones. What do you think, the cluster of battleships is going to all be within 15k of the center of the mass? so that no frig is within range of any battleship? and no BS has drones? or a web? Give me a break.
It happens all the time. at gatecamps null, high sec wars and hell even the alliance tournament. I see the problem here. You all fly Gallente battleships that fit neuts, web, and high damaging drones. I understand. As I said earlier, "the Domi is a really good ship". |
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