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Vernn
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 04:57:00 -
[181] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vernn wrote:Driving blue ice to almost 500k a unit is keeping the market running? Yup. Massive profits are to be made.
Using nothing more than..............................
kestrels
Not skills. Not creativity. Not teamwork. Not hauling. Not selling. Not buying.
kestrels
just kestrels
I am losing faith in humanity that more people don't see the problem with this. Although I am beginning to suspect 9 out of 10 of the people arguing with me on this thread are in fact members of the clowns. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 04:58:00 -
[182] - Quote
Vernn wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Ok, I've given up... the guy is either a troll (9/10 in that case) or a complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game without putting any effort into it themselves.
No point trying to correct either. Quote:complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game So you don't think players are entitled to control how others play the game? THANK YOU for finally agreeing with me!
Well there are games where other players are not entitled to have any effect on you.. However they are usually single player. |
First Lieutenant Dan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 04:58:00 -
[183] - Quote
keeps to promise |
Riedle
Paradox Collective
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:00:00 -
[184] - Quote
Hey look everybody he has a degree in Electrical Engineering
Respect his intransigence, damn you uneducated heathens |
Vernn
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:00:00 -
[185] - Quote
Zions Child wrote:Vernn wrote:
So they have complete power over me to stop me from mining blue ice in highsec and all they had to risk to do that was.....................................................................
kestrels
Yep. You know why? Because there are thousands of people like you, people who refuse to adapt. If you aren't going to adapt, then you deserve everything you get. Also, holyshitninepages.
Adapt? I would love to adapt. Put some way into the game for me to armor and arm my mining barge. Make the skills take two months even if you want. Then I will adapt.
There is no adaptation in the game that will satisfy this situation. If I want to mine blue ice how am I to adapt exactly? |
Khamelean
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:00:00 -
[186] - Quote
Vernn wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Ok, I've given up... the guy is either a troll (9/10 in that case) or a complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game without putting any effort into it themselves.
No point trying to correct either. Quote:complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game So you don't think players are entitled to control how others play the game? THANK YOU for finally agreeing with me!
If your playing street fighter and someone stands next to you and presses punch repeatedly, do you just stand there until you loose? |
First Lieutenant Dan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:00:00 -
[187] - Quote
Not argueing. Want you to look at dog. 1/3 down page. First thing to ever offend me on page. Real world is worse than kestrels or even *shudders* falcon... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2037
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:01:00 -
[188] - Quote
Vernn wrote:Using nothing more than kestrels Nope.
Quote:Not skills. Not creativity. Not teamwork. Not hauling. Not selling. Not buying.
kestrels
just kestrels Nope. That's just you being wilfully ignorant again. They are, in fact, using all of the above, but you're drastically lowering the bar for them with your laziness. That's your choice and your problem, not a design flaw. In fact, it just shows what a good design it is: you're suffering from your own errors.
Quote:I am losing faith in humanity that more people don't see the problem with this. That's ok: humanity has lost its faith in you because you can't see what a non-issue it is and how you can solve it on your own in roughly zero seconds flat.
Quote:Adapt? I would love to adapt. Put some way into the game for me to armor and arm my mining barge. Make the skills take two months even if you want. Then I will adapt. This already exists. You have chosen not to take that route. No, you will not adapt GÇö it quite obviously isn't in your nature to do so. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
196
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:01:00 -
[189] - Quote
Quote:Not skills. Not creativity. Not teamwork. Not hauling. Not selling. Not buying.
Skills are needed to know where ice belt systems are, and to be able to fit up a proper ship.
Creativity is necessary to come up with new suicide ganking setups and tactics to optimize their income and kills.
Teamwork is needed, as one person often scans down a target/takes the loot while another does the gank. Alternatively, multiple gankers might work together to kill a more well-tanked target.
Hauling is needed because, if the miner drops tasty loot, they need a hauler to move it.
Selling is needed because they run a profit when people buy their ice/miner loot.
Buying is done to replace their gank ship and do it again.
How much more wrong can you be? |
Vernn
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:02:00 -
[190] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Vernn wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Ok, I've given up... the guy is either a troll (9/10 in that case) or a complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game without putting any effort into it themselves.
No point trying to correct either. Quote:complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game So you don't think players are entitled to control how others play the game? THANK YOU for finally agreeing with me! Well there are games where other players are not entitled to have any effect on you.. However they are usually single player.
They are controlling a significant activity in a large portion of highsec using.............................................
kestrels
How is the problem with that not glaringly obvious? Hell even they know what they're doing is ridiculous. Thats why the clown corp is the one doing it. If it wasn't something totally assinine they wouldn't do it. |
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First Lieutenant Dan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:02:00 -
[191] - Quote
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Hicksimus
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:02:00 -
[192] - Quote
I think you make the same mistake that many people do with EvE. You want it to be a game that it is not. It certainly has the potential to offer an amazing, diverse and dynamic PvE, mining and exploration system but you need to remember one very important fact. It is an MMO. The people at CCP have used PvP as their carrot on a stick and made missions and mining a means to an end. It also has the trademark MMO feature of having many details to support a huge number of players but all of the details are watered down. Examples being ships or solar systems. There are many ships and many solar systems but nearly every single one of them lacks the wow factor because it would be an incredible amount of work to do otherwise.
Now I'll get you to your exact issue. The people at CCP have provided the players of EvE with1 dynamic, intense and interesting feature, it is PvP. There are no cool space things to see or do (you warp to a mission/combat site/belt/station/outpost once and you are unlikely to find anything new or entertaining the second time) and as a result of game mechanics extremely powerful combat ships can be had by almost any player. This leads right into your situation in which somebody can get 10x as much entertainment value using a 40mil combat ship to blow up your 200mil indy ship than they can by flying to a random system which reminds them of all the other systems they went through on their way there.
I'm on both sides of this issue. I certainly believe it is griefing and lame BUT I also believe it is working as intended and that if you want a more detailed space game you should play something like Nexus: The Jupiter incident or X3. Due to the trends of MMO's EvE will never provide that amazing spaceship experience that you get in single or small multi player games, but perhaps you should try the small/large gang side of EvE PvP with a side of PvE for funds. PvP is what EvE does that those single and small multi player games cannot do. PvE is a necessity for EvE funds and requires more attention than mining but at least you won't be getting ganked while competing with an army of mining bots and since you are in highsec reprocessing mission loot will get you more ore anyway! Things I have realized from the EvE forums: Many people beleive cost means money and only money |
Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:03:00 -
[193] - Quote
Vernn wrote:M5 Tuttle wrote:Vernn wrote:Andski wrote:I guess I worded it wrong, but yeah, crying about unfairness in EVE Online, a game centered in a hyper-capitalistic dog-eat-dog universe, is silly. No, i'm not crying about general unfairness in all of eve. I am commenting on a very specific situation that defies logic. Follow me here. I get the fact that eve is not a carebear game. I do. I am not crying about being blown up. It happens. I am not complaining about the fact that people can suicide gank. If someone wrongs you bad enough you should be able to suicide gank, with a real consequence. My argument simply is that someone with a -10 rating should not be allowed to kill the same person over and over again in the same spot in high sec. Yes, I get it. The very nature of eve dictates that you're never truly safe anywhere, and I appreciate the heart pounding moments that can bring to the game. I am not against suicide ganking. I am against a player with a -10 security rating killing the same people in the same spot over and over again in high sec without any penalty other than losing a ship with almost no value. I think its a pretty narrow and reasonable complaint. you understand that the fact that they are in high sec with -10 sec status means that you and anyone else can attack them without getting concorded, right? how is that not enough for you? 1) I can't attack them when they are sitting in a station. 2) Why would I attack them if they are flying a kestrel? The bullets I would shoot could potentially be worth more than their ship. They are griefers. They will not risk anything real. Thats why they do what they do. They are taking advantage of the games mechanics to inflict harm to others. If they had to pay a real price for what they were doing, they wouldn't do it.
Didin't realize taking advantage of game mechanics was a crime. I hope you never go afk while mining then, because that's taking advantage of game mechanics as well. Want some advice? Make some friends, get some guns, go hunting. Or do something else... whining and bitching is just going to make you a bigger target. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
193
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:03:00 -
[194] - Quote
Vernn wrote:Velicitia wrote:Vernn wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Vernn wrote:I CAN GO ANYWHERE AND DO ANYTHING AND THEY CAN KEEP DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING? Anywhere I go except a station. Anywhere in space they can do it. Mining ice in Caldari, Minmatar, and Amarr space is currently legal. Go forth and mine ice to your heart's content. Or else you'll come get me in your................................. kestrel Game of the year right here people! TBH, a kestrel shoul ... wait, you're not mining in a completely un-tanked retriever are you? Retriever. I crunched the numbers. Wouldn't matter what I put on it. I'd be toast. I apologise in advance to anyone who knows how to fit ships. Fits are from EFT using an "all 5" pilot.
Well assuming they're really in a kestrel:
[Kestrel, lolfit] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
[empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
Standard Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Fury Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Fury Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Fury Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Fury Light Missile
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I [empty rig slot]
this fit does 124 DPS. has 1500 EHP
Taking this (terribad) fit for a Retriever: [Retriever, lol] Shield Power Relay II Co-Processor II
Medium Shield Extender II
Ice Harvester I Ice Harvester I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
you're sitting with 2071 shield HP with 30/20/40/50 EM/THERM/KIN/EX resists. EHP is about 5500. You can dish out ~100DPS.
it'll take the Kestrel about 45 seconds to kill you. You'll take 15 to kill him. Or you can let CONCORD show after ~30 sec. Pretty sure you won this round.
Disclaimer -- retrievers have practically zero tank. They won't withstand anything bigger than a frig, so if you see a dessie or bigger coming in on D-scan, GTFO.
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First Lieutenant Dan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:03:00 -
[195] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:I think you make the same mistake that many people do with EvE. You want it to be a game that it is not. It certainly has the potential to offer an amazing, diverse and dynamic PvE, mining and exploration system but you need to remember one very important fact. It is an MMO. The people at CCP have used PvP as their carrot on a stick and made missions and mining a means to an end. It also has the trademark MMO feature of having many details to support a huge number of players but all of the details are watered down. Examples being ships or solar systems. There are many ships and many solar systems but nearly every single one of them lacks the wow factor because it would be an incredible amount of work to do otherwise.
Now I'll get you to your exact issue. The people at CCP have provided the players of EvE with1 dynamic, intense and interesting feature, it is PvP. There are no cool space things to see or do (you warp to a mission/combat site/belt/station/outpost once and you are unlikely to find anything new or entertaining the second time) and as a result of game mechanics extremely powerful combat ships can be had by almost any player. This leads right into your situation in which somebody can get 10x as much entertainment value using a 40mil combat ship to blow up your 200mil indy ship than they can by flying to a random system which reminds them of all the other systems they went through on their way there.
I'm on both sides of this issue. I certainly believe it is griefing and lame BUT I also believe it is working as intended and that if you want a more detailed space game you should play something like Nexus: The Jupiter incident or X3. Due to the trends of MMO's EvE will never provide that amazing spaceship experience that you get in single or small multi player games, but perhaps you should try the small/large gang side of EvE PvP with a side of PvE for funds. PvP is what EvE does that those single and small multi player games cannot do. PvE is a necessity for EvE funds and requires more attention than mining but at least you won't be getting ganked while competing with an army of mining bots and since you are in highsec reprocessing mission loot will get you more ore anyway!
Writes large essay = receives small response .
|
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:03:00 -
[196] - Quote
Vernn wrote:Zions Child wrote:Vernn wrote:
So they have complete power over me to stop me from mining blue ice in highsec and all they had to risk to do that was.....................................................................
kestrels
Yep. You know why? Because there are thousands of people like you, people who refuse to adapt. If you aren't going to adapt, then you deserve everything you get. Also, holyshitninepages. Adapt? I would love to adapt. Put some way into the game for me to armor and arm my mining barge. Make the skills take two months even if you want. Then I will adapt. There is no adaptation in the game that will satisfy this situation. If I want to mine blue ice how am I to adapt exactly?
heh remote shield/armor extenders
hulk +30 ships specialized on remote shield/armor extending... = hulk with 1,2 mil ehp That would make it slightly more interesting. |
Vernn
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:03:00 -
[197] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:Quote:Not skills. Not creativity. Not teamwork. Not hauling. Not selling. Not buying. Skills are needed to know where ice belt systems are, and to be able to fit up a proper ship. Teamwork is needed, as one person often scans down a target/takes the loot while another does the gank. Alternatively, multiple gankers might work together to kill a more well-tanked target. Hauling is needed because, if the miner drops tasty loot, they need a hauler to move it. Selling is needed because they run a profit when people buy their ice/miner loot. Buying is done to replace their gank ship and do it again. How much more wrong can you be?
Its been clearly established they aren't doing it for loot so that pretty much knocks out your argument. If that was the reason then they should be suicide ganking everyone. Not just ice miners.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2037
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:03:00 -
[198] - Quote
Vernn wrote:How is the problem with that not glaringly obvious? Because it only exists in your head, and only you can see your hallucinations.
Quote:Its been clearly established they aren't doing it for loot so that pretty much knocks out your argument. If that was the reason then they should be suicide ganking everyone. Not just ice miners. The problem is that the actual reason they're doing it requires massive amounts of what you've listed, so it's actually in your interest to claim that they're just doing it for the loot. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Daemon Angel
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:03:00 -
[199] - Quote
Vernn wrote:
Well, my return to eve will be short then.
The door is ----> that way |
Vernn
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:04:00 -
[200] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vernn wrote:How is the problem with that not glaringly obvious? Because it only exists in your head, and only you can see your hallucinations.
Make a counter point please. Childish quips get us no where.
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Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1043
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:05:00 -
[201] - Quote
Vernn wrote:If I want to mine blue ice how am I to adapt exactly? I already told you. You simply have to purchase a license from any of the Goonswarm Federation members you see in local. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
First Lieutenant Dan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:05:00 -
[202] - Quote
I'll leve you guys to it. I'm going on a long walk to the drugstore MOTHERFUCK THIS EMOTICON CAN NOT EXPRESS MY EMOTIONS **** YOU SHOVEL. **** YOU BLENDER!
Edit: HAPPIER NOW MOTHERFUCK IS UNCENSORED FTW |
Vernn
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:06:00 -
[203] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Vernn wrote:Zions Child wrote:Vernn wrote:
So they have complete power over me to stop me from mining blue ice in highsec and all they had to risk to do that was.....................................................................
kestrels
Yep. You know why? Because there are thousands of people like you, people who refuse to adapt. If you aren't going to adapt, then you deserve everything you get. Also, holyshitninepages. Adapt? I would love to adapt. Put some way into the game for me to armor and arm my mining barge. Make the skills take two months even if you want. Then I will adapt. There is no adaptation in the game that will satisfy this situation. If I want to mine blue ice how am I to adapt exactly? heh remote shield/armor extenders hulk +30 ships specialized on remote shield/armor extending... = hulk with 1,2 mil ehp That would make it slightly more interesting.
So I can put more of my money and time on the line versus their risk of losing their...........................
kestrel
Besides, you aren't going to save a retriever against a gank. Not gunna happen unless you got 10 ships boosting you. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
193
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:07:00 -
[204] - Quote
funny, my retriever survived the mock encounter with a Kestrel... |
Vernn
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:07:00 -
[205] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Vernn wrote:If I want to mine blue ice how am I to adapt exactly? I already told you. You simply have to purchase a license from any of the Goonswarm Federation members you see in local.
Only if the license is the cost of one kestrel. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2037
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:07:00 -
[206] - Quote
Vernn wrote:Make a counter point please. I already have. Everyone has. You have so far been utterly unable to respond to any of it. You just keep repeating the same disproven and completely fantastical nonsense over and over without actually saying anything useful. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
196
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:08:00 -
[207] - Quote
I'm fairly certain you're trolling now. Nobody is this stupid. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
193
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:08:00 -
[208] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vernn wrote:Make a counter point please. I already have. Everyone has. You have so far been utterly unable to respond to any of it. You just keep repeating the same disproven and completely fantastical nonsense over and over without actually saying anything useful.
o_O
did someone forget to lock the doors to CAOD again? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1043
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:09:00 -
[209] - Quote
Very few of the interdiction incidents involve a kestrel. Most people trying to illegally mine blue ice use hulks fit with a hefty tank. Why you continue to use such a bad ship for ice mining is anybody's guess. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Vernn
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:10:00 -
[210] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vernn wrote:Make a counter point please. I already have. Everyone has. You have so far been utterly unable to respond to any of it. You just keep repeating the same disproven and completely fantastical nonsense over and over without actually saying anything useful.
Unable to respond? I have made many logical arguments.
The prime one that I keep making that you have yet to acknowledge is that the thing they have to risk to gain all this power is a.........................................
kestrel |
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