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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Titus Tallang
EVE University Ivy League
108
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Posted - 2016.01.18 15:58:42 -
[31] - Quote
I still think this is a terrible idea, just like last time it was proposed. Here's why:
- It has the outward appearance of microtransactions: Whether this system, with its unique CCP-branded Everything Comes From Another PlayerGäó approach, is actually a microtransaction system is arguable, but this is not the point. What matters is the first impression on a new player. "Wait 10 hours to train this skill - or take out your credit card and buy some PLEX!". I realize the prospect has dollar signs twirling in the eyes of your accountants right now, but it's guaranteed to drive plenty of new players away, especially during those crucial first days. I can guarantee you it would've driven me away when I started playing.
- It makes it so new players (feel they) have to purchase SP with cash to remain competitive: Bittervets get 150k SP per extractor, while brand new players get 500k SP per extractor, a 233% increase. Now contrast the buying power of bittervets with the buying power of new players. Do you really believe that these will end up in any price range that is remotely affordable for a new player that doesn't have Credit Card V trained? Yet a new player that doesn't pay for these will see his friends flying more powerful ships, with better modules, and higher effectiveness, thus affecting a strong psychological incentive to also pay for SP boosters to remain competitive.
Please stop doing your best Scrooge McDuck impression with a cash register jingling in the background and stop this madness before it's too late. We have enough issues retaining new players, something the game badly needs, as is, without you adding a system that makes it look as if you had the same monetization model as a f**ing Farmville clone.
Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
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tasman devil
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
57
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Posted - 2016.01.18 15:58:50 -
[32] - Quote
Minchurra wrote:I like it. Some Qs:
How does this work in the case where I don't want to sell my XP on the market but I do want to re-arrange how I have it distributed?
For example on a toonie with 65 million SP, can I just move 5 million SP from my mining skills and dump them into my leadership skills, or do I need to use the injector/extractor and lose a percentage of my skill points?
Is 500k the maximum you can transfer in one go? Surely 512k would be a better amount given skills advance in powers of 2.
Are there plans for bigger/smaller injectors at different price points?
Can the injectors be bought for -ú-ú-ú like the extractors or are they in-game purchases only? Re-arrange?
If you are using these extractors and injectors, then:
Begin: 65m SP Middle: burn, 10 extractors, lose 5m SP Middle2: injects injectors, gain 3m SP. End: 63m SP
You'll burn around 2m SP to relocate those 5m SP to 3m SP somewhere else - >> not worth the hassle, might as well just train them in the first place!
I don't belive in reincarnation
I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
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Emilia Zapata
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.01.18 15:59:03 -
[33] - Quote
Is there a limit to the amount of SP you can extract from one character? Or will it be possible to use a character as a constant SP farm, only limited by how quick it can accumulate them? |
Escobar Sr
Gang Bang You're Dead Happy Cartel
6
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Posted - 2016.01.18 15:59:30 -
[34] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:OK, My question is simple.
After you remove the skill points to 0 in those skills you no longer want, can you remove the skill from your skillsheet.
I do not want a bunch of 0 level skills showing up. Why remove skill points if you can not remove the skill itself.
Please answer this CCP.
Honestly now, wouldn't it be awesome to delete the skill and reimburse the ISK you spent on the Skill Book itself? Honestly now, why is it such a big issue for you anyway? Couple skills that show "Level 0".
The question should be like:
"Will you implement a filter that allows my client to stop showing Level ) skills?" |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1886
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Posted - 2016.01.18 15:59:45 -
[35] - Quote
YouAreMyBounty Sarn wrote:I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that there was a positive attitude about TSP's. I posted many times in that dev blog & there was a majority of people against it, commonly quoting a line from a CCP guy that said something along the lines of, paying extra money into eve should never give a skill advantage over someone with a regular subscription. The point was that you shouldn't be doing this. It's a terrible idea.
I am heavily against it. There is pages and pages of rage on that thread about people not liking this pay-to-win money grabbing attitude proposed by Eve-Online.
It was a done deal as soon as they did any serious work on a blog for it. I still dislike the idea and simply won't use it. If that puts me at a disadvantage for not buying my way to higher skills so be it.
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2219
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:01:59 -
[36] - Quote
Minchurra wrote:I like it. Some Qs:
How does this work in the case where I don't want to sell my XP on the market but I do want to re-arrange how I have it distributed?
For example on a toonie with 65 million SP, can I just move 5 million SP from my mining skills and dump them into my leadership skills, or do I need to use the injector/extractor and lose a percentage of my skill points?
Is 500k the maximum you can transfer in one go? Surely 512k would be a better amount given skills advance in powers of 2.
Are there plans for bigger/smaller injectors at different price points?
Can the injectors be bought for -ú-ú-ú like the extractors or are they in-game purchases only? First victim to the new system detected. Read the dev blog again. If you do this, you will lose SP because your total amount extract is 500,000 but due to your 64.5M SP sum, you will only be able to re-implement 150,000 SP. Have fun wasting your money.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Sorgia
Smurftastic
0
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:03:28 -
[37] - Quote
hpy i did not sell my indyalts yet then
stil dont like this system though, rich ppl instandly max there skils, ppl who used exploits instandly maxedout. |
Minchurra
Pandemic Horde Inc.
26
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:04:41 -
[38] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Minchurra wrote:I like it. Some Qs:
How does this work in the case where I don't want to sell my XP on the market but I do want to re-arrange how I have it distributed?
For example on a toonie with 65 million SP, can I just move 5 million SP from my mining skills and dump them into my leadership skills, or do I need to use the injector/extractor and lose a percentage of my skill points?
Is 500k the maximum you can transfer in one go? Surely 512k would be a better amount given skills advance in powers of 2.
Are there plans for bigger/smaller injectors at different price points?
Can the injectors be bought for -ú-ú-ú like the extractors or are they in-game purchases only? First victim to the new system detected. Read the dev blog again. If you do this, you will lose SP because your total amount extract is 500,000 but due to your 64.5M SP sum, you will only be able to re-implement 150,000 SP. Have fun wasting your money.
You'd almost think I was asking because it sounded so useless that it couldn't possibly be what they were planning on doing. |
Esmyra Aeonire
Found And Lost
8
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:05:17 -
[39] - Quote
Are characters on trial accounts able to use this system? |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1569
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:06:24 -
[40] - Quote
I still have great concerns about the implications of the meta for this idea -- Alliances and coallitions with trillions to spare will surely suck up hundreds of billions of skill points -- especially in the initial crash as people try to make short-term gains by selling unused SP.
This will hand them an (additional) massive advantage over groups in the game, and would actively incentivise new players to join these larger groups and receive SP hand-outs, to the detriment of smaller groups who simply have no realistic prospect of being able to drop half a trillion on a supply of SP injectors to help their own newbros.
This, more than anything, is what I consider harmful. It's a new feature that further institutionalises existing massive power blocks when the game should be moving towards smaller to mid-sized alliances and coallitions capable of creating engaging content in localised pockets.
Edit:
I would also like to know, a few months after launch, how many SPs are being extracted from the same skill repeatedly. I would expect farmers to be constantly stripping SP from something like Battleship V with a full remap and +5 implants. |
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Luna Bowman
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:06:46 -
[41] - Quote
Even as a newbie, i see a problem. The problem is called insta-alts. Be it gank, market, mining, anything. CCP, any stance on how this impacts the game ? |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
987
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:07:09 -
[42] - Quote
Well, at least I'll be able to get rid of those science skills I trained just so I could do R&D agents. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6905
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:07:37 -
[43] - Quote
Sorgia wrote:ppl who used exploits instandly maxedout. Better report the exploiters, I hear you get a plex if it's true or something.
ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.
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DmitryEKT
AMMO INC Phoebe Freeport Republic
134
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:07:59 -
[44] - Quote
Just too re-iterate what others have mentioned. Make it 512k instead of 500k, as skills are all multiples of 256, not 250k. |
tasman devil
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
57
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:08:15 -
[45] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:tasman devil wrote:Basically means that I should have an ALT low SP (under 5m SP) character, who I deck out lets say with max Intelligence and Memory attributes, assign some Int/Mem skills to him and then periodically milk him for 500k SP that I can then sell on the market.
2: Any other route and you'll have a net negative on the SP pool. In effect CCP is burning (removing) SP from the game. But if you're using AUR for the extractor... why not get plex and train more. Oh snap. Besides... it's not surprising there may be a most efficient way to produce something. To min-max my dominix production I would research the BPO fully as well, right? Otherwise I'm having a net negative on the dominix pool?
To clarify this: main - fully researched all the ships you want to fly, I do not want to touch it alt - free reign
I have ~5,500 AUR from the heydays when CCP gave them out left and right, I don't care it the extractor will be in AUR, at least I can burn that AUR off the account.
Plus: you need at least one plex to have the account open and accessible, why pay with more when you have already reached all the ships you wanted?
I don't belive in reincarnation
I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6905
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:08:41 -
[46] - Quote
Minchurra wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Minchurra wrote:I like it. Some Qs:
How does this work in the case where I don't want to sell my XP on the market but I do want to re-arrange how I have it distributed?
For example on a toonie with 65 million SP, can I just move 5 million SP from my mining skills and dump them into my leadership skills, or do I need to use the injector/extractor and lose a percentage of my skill points?
Is 500k the maximum you can transfer in one go? Surely 512k would be a better amount given skills advance in powers of 2.
Are there plans for bigger/smaller injectors at different price points?
Can the injectors be bought for -ú-ú-ú like the extractors or are they in-game purchases only? First victim to the new system detected. Read the dev blog again. If you do this, you will lose SP because your total amount extract is 500,000 but due to your 64.5M SP sum, you will only be able to re-implement 150,000 SP. Have fun wasting your money. You'd almost think I was asking because it sounded so useless that it couldn't possibly be what they were planning on doing. Your intuition that they weren't aiming for people to stack SP on their 80mil+ SP charcaters is correct.
ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.
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DmitryEKT
AMMO INC Phoebe Freeport Republic
134
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:08:45 -
[47] - Quote
Luna Bowman wrote:Even as a newbie, i see a problem. The problem is called insta-alts. Be it gank, market, mining, anything. CCP, any stance on how this impacts the game ? doesn't affect it in any way, because character bazaar already exists. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8053
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:08:48 -
[48] - Quote
A bold and desperate move to wring more cash from the diminishing playerbase..
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6905
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:10:02 -
[49] - Quote
tasman devil wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:tasman devil wrote:Basically means that I should have an ALT low SP (under 5m SP) character, who I deck out lets say with max Intelligence and Memory attributes, assign some Int/Mem skills to him and then periodically milk him for 500k SP that I can then sell on the market.
2: Any other route and you'll have a net negative on the SP pool. In effect CCP is burning (removing) SP from the game. But if you're using AUR for the extractor... why not get plex and train more. Oh snap. Besides... it's not surprising there may be a most efficient way to produce something. To min-max my dominix production I would research the BPO fully as well, right? Otherwise I'm having a net negative on the dominix pool? To clarify this: main - fully researched all the ships you want to fly, I do not want to touch it alt - free reign I have ~5,500 AUR from the heydays when CCP gave them out left and right, I don't care it the extractor will be in AUR, at least I can burn that AUR off the account. Plus: you need at least one plex to have the account open and accessible, why pay with more when you have already reached all the ships you wanted? Specialised alts are useful, huh? Actually for quite a number of applications a specialized alt (eg: producing more conventional goods) is quite a boon.
It's good that you're thinking ahead rather than thinking the SP you trained yourself is free.
ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.
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Xtreem
Knockaround Guys Inc. Sin City Coalition
401
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:10:14 -
[50] - Quote
I am actually in favor of this so newer money making players can skill up to enjoy, however I think there should be a cap whereas you can't inject any more Sp if you are say 75-100mil or above in SP, I am concerned that a rich player could in effect undo the graft that players such as dr craymus have put in to their skill sheets.
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Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
469
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:11:15 -
[51] - Quote
Escobar Sr wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:OK, My question is simple.
After you remove the skill points to 0 in those skills you no longer want, can you remove the skill from your skillsheet.
I do not want a bunch of 0 level skills showing up. Why remove skill points if you can not remove the skill itself.
Please answer this CCP. Honestly now, wouldn't it be awesome to delete the skill and reimburse the ISK you spent on the Skill Book itself? Honestly now, why is it such a big issue for you anyway? Couple skills that show "Level 0". The question should be like: "Will you implement a filter that allows my client to stop showing Level 0 skills?"
Like 39 skills that say level 0.
I don't want the damn skill books back or be reimbursed for them.
This process is just plain stupid if you cannot remove the skillbook.
This is just another money grab for CCP because of all the lost subs due to poor decisions on CCP's part.
R.I.P. Vile Rat
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CCP Terminus
C C P C C P Alliance
488
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:12:47 -
[52] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:OK, My question is simple.
After you remove the skill points to 0 in those skills you no longer want, can you remove the skill from your skillsheet.
I do not want a bunch of 0 level skills showing up. Why remove skill points if you can not remove the skill itself.
Please answer this CCP.
We're looking in to the possibility, since it seems to be a common request. No promises though.
@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters
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JonnyPew
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:13:39 -
[53] - Quote
WOOHOO! \o/
EVE Online is my hobby.
http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
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Kiddoomer
Deep Space Exploitation Federal United Battalion of Armed Renegades
87
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:16:15 -
[54] - Quote
I can't really tell truly if its good or bad for the general health of the game, but there's one way I will use it that I have not seen discussed : to get back SP from a ALT I made and left to rust in a corner (not paid since one year at least), to be able to at least "get back" a part of the money I paid to play it for a moment, by extracting a maximum of its SP to the only character I use to play EVE. For this, these injectors and extractors are what I need. But to attract new players I don't think it's really the problem, they need to know which fun or engaging things they can do in the game, not to be able to do them "efficiently" by the mean of using T2 and skills to level up their stats.
A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2220
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:18:29 -
[55] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Your intuition that they weren't aiming for people to stack SP on their 80mil+ SP charcaters is correct. Your idea (and CCP's) of how new players should be introduced to the game is troublesome - very troublesome.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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ViolentDesire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:23:16 -
[56] - Quote
Quote:We werenGÇÖt sure exactly what to expect but it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players or give you more freedom with your own characters.
Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.
Ignoring the massive hypocrisy over the years that skillpoints don't matter, there were/are many ways to push the game in a direction where not everything would be governed by a skill. But naturally, such a "solution" would mean CCP couldn't "double dip", so that was apparently uninteresting. What was interesting was pay to keep up.
This has nothing to do with new players. This is only about money. The core of Eve is now irrelevant and there is no value in anything.
This is an unbelievably dumb change and an absolute demonstration that players' opinions are completely ignored. CSM as a concept can't even be considered a joke. Who the **** would believe you listen anything at all after this? |
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
370
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:27:40 -
[57] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Your intuition that they weren't aiming for people to stack SP on their 80mil+ SP charcaters is correct. Your idea (and CCP's) of how new players should be introduced to the game is troublesome - very troublesome.
Current:
Sorry Tommy, you can't play with us because you don't have X skill. Please wait [insert long wait time here] before you can come play with the big boys. Or you can spend hundreds of dollars buying PLEX to buy a character and give up your current character.
Future:
Hey Tommy, come play with us. Here's some SP to get you started. If you need more, you can get a jump start with a PLEX or two if you want to skip a couple weeks or a month of waiting.
Future Tommy seems to have better options...
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ViolentDesire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:28:05 -
[58] - Quote
YouAreMyBounty Sarn wrote:I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that there was a positive attitude about TSP's. I posted many times in that dev blog & there was a majority of people against it, commonly quoting a line from a CCP guy that said something along the lines of, paying extra money into eve should never give a skill advantage over someone with a regular subscription. The point was that you shouldn't be doing this. It's a terrible idea.
I am heavily against it. There is pages and pages of rage on that thread about people not liking this pay-to-win money grabbing attitude proposed by Eve-Online.
Apparently some devs live so deep in fantasy land and suffer from a confirmation bias stronger than what was thought possible. |
tasman devil
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
58
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:29:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:Escobar Sr wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:OK, My question is simple.
After you remove the skill points to 0 in those skills you no longer want, can you remove the skill from your skillsheet.
I do not want a bunch of 0 level skills showing up. Why remove skill points if you can not remove the skill itself.
Please answer this CCP. Honestly now, wouldn't it be awesome to delete the skill and reimburse the ISK you spent on the Skill Book itself? Honestly now, why is it such a big issue for you anyway? Couple skills that show "Level 0". The question should be like: "Will you implement a filter that allows my client to stop showing Level 0 skills?" Like 39 skills that say level 0. I don't want the damn skill books back or be reimbursed for them. This process is just plain stupid if you cannot remove the skillbook. This is just another money grab for CCP because of all the lost subs due to poor decisions on CCP's part.
Oh, you will be able to remove the skill books NEXT year - for a small AUR fee for "Skillbook extractor" because of "popular demand" they will implement it, although the way things are developed here (with the speed of a glacier melting) I'd wager it will be next year until we see something like that implemented.
Tune in on jan 2017 for more info!
I don't belive in reincarnation
I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2299
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:29:05 -
[60] - Quote
ViolentDesire wrote: Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.
The only thing that's destructive about this change is the death of SP leaderboard onanism. Fortunately, such masturbatory pursuits, like real masturbation, are completely meaningless.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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