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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
42
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:13:19 -
[481] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Now someone tell me with a straight face that EVE is doing well financially.
This is so desparate they must be in real trouble.
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Demica Diaz
SE-1
182
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:13:45 -
[482] - Quote
SoapyTits wrote:Baracuda wrote:This whole is utterly bullshit.
Pay-2-win sneakes into EVE. Lol - Eve has always been about pay to win. Ship bad - BUY better ship Modules bad - BUY better modules Its funny old players dont like this change - they are concerned they dont have the edge over new players of Eve. Get some skillz, not sp but gaming skillz!!!
As older player I think this change seem to benefit older players more than new players. I belive many old players already know that even with all Vs if they go PvP and never PvPd before they get wrecked. Its kinda obvious.  |
Dibz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:17:18 -
[483] - Quote
Where will the skill injectors come from? Are they manufactured, or looted etc? If I want to buy a bunch of empty ones for myself will I be able to do that? |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
45
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:17:48 -
[484] - Quote
Next up will be pre-fitted ships for AUR to go with the Easy-Skill(TM) feature. Nifty little "starter packs" that you can buy since you haven't got a clue: Easy-Mine, Easy-Gank, Easy-Xplore, Easy-BlackOps, and so on... Be your own Carrier Pilot in no time with Easy-Fits(TM). EVE is going to be such a great game from now on.
CCP, you are going down and there is no way back. You are pissing your credibility away faster than losing subscribers.
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Reiisha
Repracor Industries
792
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:20:46 -
[485] - Quote
Sissy Fuzz wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Now someone tell me with a straight face that EVE is doing well financially. This is so desparate they must be in real trouble.
Bankrolling several new games which have yet to make any money (and closing one down already) purely from the income of one niche subscription MMO?
Nah, it should be allright :)
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
105
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:26:32 -
[486] - Quote
When i first read this dev blog, i thought its Aprils fool's day ...
Quote:We werenGÇÖt sure exactly what to expect but it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits [...]
wat
I remember that feedback was mostly negative. |
Dosperado
Denial of Service
Freelancer Coalition
67
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:29:38 -
[487] - Quote
In the german subforum I made the suggestion to give players the ability to SHIFT their available skillpoints for a small fee with a cooldown of maybe one day or a few days.
So everyone could relocate their focal point(s) within a short amount of time and EVE by itself would get more dynamic.
Imho this is the best solution to give new players more possibilities and the veterans are not pissed off like I am right now.
And this would generate more income (for CCP) than overpriced useless "Transneural Skill Packets" which new(er) players couldn't afford anyway.
But as always CCP does not listen to their old veteran playerbase...if you really going patch this P2W **** in february say goodbye to your game and to your company!
EVE Veteran
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Phoenix Company Alliance
51
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:54:49 -
[488] - Quote
Can't say this is something I want or think is a positive addition to the game. There are more important things out there that need to be addressed first to simply improve the enjoyment of the game.
Not sure what the goal for the player base is - they will be too expensive for most true noobies and is probably just going to get abused by richer older players. EvE is a harsh world and we like it that way but padding all the walls so we don't hurt ourselves when we run into them isn't going to improve the game. |
witchking42
UNFRL Fleet Operations
164
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:55:20 -
[489] - Quote
Would have prefered it that you had to allocate the skill points to the same major group they were extracted from. This would stop the vetrans offloading millions of SP in industry for a noob to use to skill up to a Titan in a few days. |
Tristan Agion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:58:39 -
[490] - Quote
Excellent stuff!
I agree with a concern raised by many others:
There should be a way to remove "0 SP" skills.
I very much favour being able to extract a "0 SP" skill into the physical skill book: that's clean and simple, basically the original skill injection in reverse. In fact, this would provide good "lore" on how we get these wonderful skill books in the first place!
As for the skill injectors, requiring that they be bought with AUR could be a major "overhead" and might contribute to driving newbies (without deep real world pockets) out of the market.
I hence really hope for a low price for the skill injector, say 100 AUR.
1 AUR is 300k-ish ISK, so that would be about 30M-ish ISK. And it would be really nice if skill injectors became a rare drop / pay-out for something in the game.
Finally, I predict that PLEX prices will fall significantly with the introduction of this. There probably will be many people who want to buy SPs, but can neither afford it now nor are willing to grind for the ISK for a long time. The only way to get that ISK quick is to buy PLEX with real money and sell it for ISK. So probably more people will dump PLEX on the market, and that will drive PLEX prices down.
I don't see a reason why PLEX prices would go up because of this, but I would be sincerely interested in hearing the reasoning behind that expectation. |
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Rizz Razz
Bored Bureaucrats Ltd.
122
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:02:27 -
[491] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:
I hence really hope for a low price for the skill injector, say 100 AUR.
500 AUR will be minimum i think ... and 3500 AUR wont be a surprise :)
But we will see ... |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2216
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:03:29 -
[492] - Quote
Btw, where is the CSM? Or did this, conveniently, happen between CSM? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1891
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 11:05:57 -
[493] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Rather than delete the skills option how would the OCD folks feel about a button that say' Do not show skills at 0'?
Then your sheet would be nice and clean but nothing would be removed.
m
Doing anything to accommodate OCD actually makes it worse. The characters that remove skills should show the mental scars from doing so. |
Dibz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:14:20 -
[494] - Quote
Rizz Razz wrote:Tristan Agion wrote:
I hence really hope for a low price for the skill injector, say 100 AUR.
500 AUR will be minimum i think ... and 3500 AUR wont be a surprise :) But we will see ...
Anything over 500 AUR would be a total fail IMO. |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
52
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:14:45 -
[495] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:No actually it's more like regdate bragging, the idea that your character of *regdate* cannot be beaten by character of *lateregdate*
This.
This is exactly the mindset CCP is trying to cater to with Easy-Skills(TM). The eternally butthurt curling-generation who are nothing less than morally piqued by the fact that some people are better than them because they stayed put and made an effort to actually achieve something by themselves. Using the one thing in life that no shortcut, CC swipe, or quickfix will replace, their time.
Outside Goonswarm and Murica! there are billions of people who would never dream of bragging. That be of regdates or otherwise. I understand that this is beyond you, Alavaria Fera, I really do, but thought you should know anyway. I bet you felt really clever coining "regdate bragging" but it is a bit shallow, mkay?
CCP wants this segment, the shortcutters, to feel happy.
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Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
216
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:15:39 -
[496] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:I don't see a reason why PLEX prices would go up because of this, but I would be sincerely interested in hearing the reasoning behind that expectation.
The skill injectors can be bought in the New Eden Store with Aurum. PLEX can be converted to Aurum. That's why.
To all of those, who rage about Eve becoming Pay2Win with this skill trading mechanic. Could you explain to me, why this method would be any more Pay2Win, than the current character bazaar already is?
Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2219
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:27:29 -
[497] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:Tristan Agion wrote:I don't see a reason why PLEX prices would go up because of this, but I would be sincerely interested in hearing the reasoning behind that expectation. The skill injectors can be bought in the New Eden Store with Aurum. PLEX can be converted to Aurum. That's why. To all of those, who rage about Eve becoming Pay2Win with this skill trading mechanic. Could you explain to me, why this method would be any more Pay2Win, than the current character bazaar already is?
How often does this need explaining and why does this need explaining in the first fcking place. How stupid are folks?
Characters bought in the bazaar come with a name, a history and choices in regards to skill training. You agree to buying that character then you agree to the whole package so changing ownership of that character does not change the basic "choices have consequences" core concept of EVE. The character remains as is.
The new system allows you to syphon SP from any character with any background and any training choices and then redistribute that as you please. None of the choices that character made is retained, it throws the basic concept of EVE overboard. So a) it's so close to P2W it's not even funny and b) it completely fucks with EVE's main concept.
And then a clown PVPer turned "balancing expert", turned clown dev allowed it to happen.
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Aroye
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:27:48 -
[498] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:So CCP has decided to go on ahead and kill Eve huh? Mark my words CCP, this game's REAL decline starts here!
I don't think it will make any difference in the long run because extractors will probably cost way to much to be worth it. Something like a PLEX for a 7-8 days worth of SP. 400K sp is almost nothing in EVE. Some newbies will fall for it and wast money before they realize that it doesn't help. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2219
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:34:01 -
[499] - Quote
Aroye wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:So CCP has decided to go on ahead and kill Eve huh? Mark my words CCP, this game's REAL decline starts here! I don't think it will make any difference in the long run because extractors will probably cost way to much to be worth it. Something like a PLEX for a 7-8 days worth of SP. 400K sp is almost nothing in EVE. Some newbies will fall for it and wast money before they realize that it doesn't help.
The point is that this is a first step to p2w, and if people agree to it (by just passively accepting it even though they're not happy about the whole thing) then the next step will be a little bit further. And then a little bit more, and more and more. So if one's not happy with this whole thing then by simply condoning it you perpetuate it.
Me personally I draw the line here, not being dramatic about it but at some point you have to simply accept that the product you've been using for years is turning into something you don't want, and you decide to move on. Atm I'm consolidating my assets and then I'll delete my chars. And no you can't have my stuff, it'll be given to other folks. |
Tristan Agion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:43:02 -
[500] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:The skill injectors can be bought in the New Eden Store with Aurum. PLEX can be converted to Aurum. That's why.
I see now, thanks!
I think my point about more people dumping PLEX on the market stands though, so it will be really interesting to see how this will balance out in the end.
I think the lower the AUR cost for the skill injector, the more likely that PLEX prices will net drop: This would lower PLEX to AUR conversion demand, because one would not need as much AUR. But the PLEX supply from people trying to get ISK for buying skill packets would stay unaffected.
Another good reason the for a low AUR price on the skill injector, CCPlease. |
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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
DARKNESS.
207
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:43:37 -
[501] - Quote
am in favour of this in one way but very annoyed by it. basically its taken me 10 years to get where i am now i can get a char pay for skills and have a 100mill sp char in one day if i so wish! not funny and basically ccp taking the ****
also youll have to be careful because the skill can cos considerably more than others. for example a capital skill could take the same time as a skill costing x10 less but its just converted into the same number of skillpoints. which i dont think is right |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2904
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:44:39 -
[502] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote: Atm I'm consolidating my assets and then I'll delete my chars. And no you can't have my stuff, it'll be given to other folks.
Can't say I've tended to agree with many of your opinions in F&I, but I will be sorry to see you go over this.
Much as I don't want it either and think CCP have it totally wrong when they are saying 'most of you saw the positives' and have fallen into the trap of listening to a few and believing it's the many..... I'm going to encourage you to stay anyway, because the biggest users/abusers of this will be the same people that grow alts 2 years before they actually need them anyway, so it won't have very much impact on the overall game.
Though I do also agree that this is a very very big step down a slippery slope, it's not the total doom of EVE, and if the cleats in the boot hold after this step, may not lead to it. |
Aerious
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:51:09 -
[503] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Aroye wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:So CCP has decided to go on ahead and kill Eve huh? Mark my words CCP, this game's REAL decline starts here! I don't think it will make any difference in the long run because extractors will probably cost way to much to be worth it. Something like a PLEX for a 7-8 days worth of SP. 400K sp is almost nothing in EVE. Some newbies will fall for it and wast money before they realize that it doesn't help. The point is that this is a first step to p2w, and if people agree to it (by just passively accepting it even though they're not happy about the whole thing) then the next step will be a little bit further. And then a little bit more, and more and more. So if one's not happy with this whole thing then by simply condoning it you perpetuate it. Me personally I draw the line here, not being dramatic about it but at some point you have to simply accept that the product you've been using for years is turning into something you don't want, and you decide to move on. Atm I'm consolidating my assets and then I'll delete my chars. And no you can't have my stuff, it'll be given to other folks.
There's no point threatning to leave, most of the people here raging and saying they will leave, will not, CCP know this after the monocle-crap a few years ago, hundreds threatend to leave, most are still here.
I as you am totally against this idea, but since there is a dev blog about it, i think it will be implemented, but im hoping CCPGäó sees sense and cap it at a lower SP value so it's only of use by newer players and make it so there is a limit to the amount of SP that can be injected per year.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2222
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:56:41 -
[504] - Quote
Aerious wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Aroye wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:So CCP has decided to go on ahead and kill Eve huh? Mark my words CCP, this game's REAL decline starts here! I don't think it will make any difference in the long run because extractors will probably cost way to much to be worth it. Something like a PLEX for a 7-8 days worth of SP. 400K sp is almost nothing in EVE. Some newbies will fall for it and wast money before they realize that it doesn't help. The point is that this is a first step to p2w, and if people agree to it (by just passively accepting it even though they're not happy about the whole thing) then the next step will be a little bit further. And then a little bit more, and more and more. So if one's not happy with this whole thing then by simply condoning it you perpetuate it. Me personally I draw the line here, not being dramatic about it but at some point you have to simply accept that the product you've been using for years is turning into something you don't want, and you decide to move on. Atm I'm consolidating my assets and then I'll delete my chars. And no you can't have my stuff, it'll be given to other folks. There's no point threatning to leave, most of the people here raging and saying they will leave, will not, CCP know this after the monocle-crap a few years ago, hundreds threatend to leave, most are still here. I as you am totally against this idea, but since there is a dev blog about it, i think it will be implemented, but im hoping CCPGäó sees sense and cap it at a lower SP value so it's only of use by newer players and make it so there is a limit to the amount of SP that can be injected per year.
What you're doing right now is justifying it by adding some variables to it going "well if CCP crosses THAT line then surely, I'll go do something about it". I don't, this is a massive turning point in EVE and simply a bridge too far. I'm not interested in the result of that nor the changes leading to that.
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Dracnys
86
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:56:51 -
[505] - Quote
1. Buying SP injectors is not the same as trading on the character bazaar. While both buying SP injectors and buying characters are a way to skip ahead in the wait for SP, there are major differences. These are that 1) buying a character requires a huge investment, whereas buying SP injectors can be done in small steps, 2) a bought character comes with a fixed name and reputation, which many potential buyers dislike, 3) the process of buying a character is complicated for a new player. All in all, these differences mean that SP injectors are more useable and will be used by more players than the character bazaar.
2. SP injectors change the game for new players (<3 months) in a huge way and give the impression that EVE is P2W. In the early days of a new player, every single SP makes a difference. An injection of 500k SP give him access to a new shipclass, or a new activity in industry or exploration. A new player will also not have enough ISK to be able to afford an SP injection. ItGÇÖs hard to predict the final price, but it will almost certainly be more than 100m. This means that a new player has three options: 1) have a friend ingame who gives him SP injectors 2) buy PLEX with real money and 3) wait for the SP to come. Option 3 sounds like terrible gameplay and gives the impression that EVE is pay to win. Before SP injectors, a new player may have heard of the character bazaar, but due to the extreme amounts of ISK needed (from his perspective) it was never an option.
3. For intermediate players (>3 months but less than 12 months) SP injectors focus their attention on ISK. At that age SP is of course still extremely important. At a few months into EVE, intermediate players start to gain access to decently profitable ISK farming. With their attention focused on their SP count, they are incentivized to spend all their playtime farming. ThereGÇÖs a huge risk that they will not take the time to explore PVP, join a corporation or generally wander around the universe, trying new things. And that is where many will eventually quit because they perceive EVE as a grinding game.
4. On the other hand, new players now have a way of taking control of their SP development. Waiting can be very frustrating. If I tell a friend that it will take at least a few months until he can play a meaningful role in PVP, he will not join the game. Now I can offer to give him a few boosts, or point to profitable activities ingame.
5. Selling SP extractors gives CCP another way of making money. This is actually a good thing! As long as the company is healthy, EVE will continue to be developed. ItGÇÖs just a question of whether selling SP extractors is the least painful way the playerbase can pay CCP. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2222
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Posted - 2016.01.19 12:01:52 -
[506] - Quote
Dracnys wrote:If I tell a friend that it will take at least a few months until he can play a meaningful role in PVP, he will not join the game.
Then you lied to him.
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Nakaara Adahsa
Deep Void Enterprises
14
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Posted - 2016.01.19 12:09:35 -
[507] - Quote
I continue to believe that this is an extraordinarily bad idea and will have negative consequences for the game. It is indeed a pay-to-win "feature".
A fair number of players are likely to create farms of alts for the sole purpose of skill-point farming, and I think this is exactly what CCP wants. More accounts, more alts = more money.
This is not likely to encourage more players to join the game. People don't decide to play games based on whether or not they can rapidly catch up with their friends' skill point levels. They decide to play a game because they enjoy it. There is enough flexibility in the game as-is for new players to join their friends in most aspects of gameplay. In the few areas where there may be exclusion for a while, it is definitely temporary and they will need that time to learn how to play the game anyway.
If CCP proceeds with the horribly bad decision to add this feature, you can expect gankers to start shaking down players for skill points. Miners, haulers, and small corps are likely to see increased harassment. This time, however, it won't just be ISK you'll be asked to pay but rather the life's blood of your characters: skill points.
If the latter happens, that seems pretty unhealthy for the game aside from just the sleaziness of skill-point farming. A lot of newbies are already turned-off by EVE due to the current level of ganking activity in highsec. I don't see how a ganking-for-skill-points game environment will help attract new players.
Maybe CCP already understands these risks and this feature is being added solely as a scheme to milk more money out of the existing player base. It may do that to some degree, but I think it is likely to alienate more than a few players.
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Dibz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2016.01.19 12:12:04 -
[508] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Characters bought in the bazaar come with a name, a history and choices in regards to skill training. You agree to buying that character then you agree to the whole package so changing ownership of that character does not change the basic "choices have consequences" core concept of EVE. The character remains as is.
The new system allows you to syphon SP from any character with any background and any training choices and then redistribute that as you please. None of the choices that character made is retained, it throws the basic concept of EVE overboard. So a) it's so close to P2W it's not even funny and b) it completely fucks with EVE's main concept.
And then a clown PVPer turned "balancing expert", turned clown dev allowed it to happen.
What am I 'winning' when I redistribute SP from one character to another? Remember that winning implies someone else is losing as a direct consequence of my actions. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2222
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Posted - 2016.01.19 12:13:32 -
[509] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Characters bought in the bazaar come with a name, a history and choices in regards to skill training. You agree to buying that character then you agree to the whole package so changing ownership of that character does not change the basic "choices have consequences" core concept of EVE. The character remains as is.
The new system allows you to syphon SP from any character with any background and any training choices and then redistribute that as you please. None of the choices that character made is retained, it throws the basic concept of EVE overboard. So a) it's so close to P2W it's not even funny and b) it completely fucks with EVE's main concept.
And then a clown PVPer turned "balancing expert", turned clown dev allowed it to happen.
What am I 'winning' when I redistribute SP from one character to another? Remember that winning implies someone else is losing as a direct consequence of my actions.
Your logic (...) is dumb as hell, but thanks for playing. |
Zeddrick Anthar
Overheat Everything and CHARGE
2
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Posted - 2016.01.19 12:14:57 -
[510] - Quote
Roughly how much AUR will the new skill extractor thing cost? |
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