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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Tamazaki
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.01.19 00:51:57 -
[391] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Now for your next trick; price the extractors appropriately so that you have a genuine micro transaction that will be used and enjoyed, rather than a hilariously overpriced albatross that nobody except the idiotic or rich will use.
Yes! |
Arithron
107th Suicide Kings Nihilists Social Club
19
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Posted - 2016.01.19 00:52:41 -
[392] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Rather than delete the skills option how would the OCD folks feel about a button that say' Do not show skills at 0'?
Then your sheet would be nice and clean but nothing would be removed.
m
Total waste of time and effort. Keep skills at 0 to remind players that a) they were once (or still are) a dickwad for training it in the first place and b) they are a dickwad for selling SP |
Arithron
107th Suicide Kings Nihilists Social Club
20
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:15:05 -
[393] - Quote
Seriously, there should be no SP gain from injectors for 80mil+ SP
If you can't build a character that is a good pilot for 80mil+ SP, you shouldn't be playing.
I expect all diehard EVE players that have 80mil+ SP to agree with this idea, as they all play for the love of the game, as opposed to P2W right?
Or are there not many of us left with a sense of fair play? |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5670
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:15:54 -
[394] - Quote
Even if it has already been suggested ...
CCPLEASE LET US DELETE SKILLS!
I don't want a skillbook refund. Just let me delete the dang skills. |
Charlie Corday
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:21:35 -
[395] - Quote
Pay to Win - another nail in Eve's coffin. |
Mance Sevrin
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:22:00 -
[396] - Quote
I REALLY would like to know the AUR cost for one of these extractors.
Also I hope a hard SP ceiling is placed on this . As much as I feel for the veterans plea, I care not , they can roll a new character if they want to take part. |
Rimstalker
Asteroid Central Guns-N-Roses
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:30:43 -
[397] - Quote
Man, how about instead of trying to nailed down a lot of stupid ideas on how to make this place more attractive, you focus more on making it a better game; something you are not really doing right now?
Witness, the more you try and make this game more appealing to a bunch of people who aren't here, the fewer people that actually show up. I would have thought you would have realized this at this point but apparently not.
Why don't you spend a couple of updates on fixing problems and glitches in your current system and get that nailed down and then spend some time and effort on adding new things.
Next, if you want to actually improve this place, why dont you listen to the CSM...bwahahahaha...I am just kidding so lets get to something more realistic; why don't you take a good look at some of the incredibly good ideas that many many many people have had over the years and sent in to you. You don't need to toss something out there and then see what people say, you should have boxes and folders of that already.
Of course this may go the way of ...walking around stations!...or any number of other items that we have heard of over the years.
Get a grip on reality and go find my slaves...I spilled some Quafe here and the strippers are late. |
BAWBAG74
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:42:04 -
[398] - Quote
I am not in agreement with MOST of this, and I'll explain below:
If CCP want to implement skill trading it should be for new players/ low skill point characters only to get them into the game. Not to have some rich character buy a **** ton of injectors to become even more elite.
The people who have put years into training, and countless $ on subscriptions should have some protection from people swooping an buying something, that until this discussion was "priceless" and many of you will say "well its not priceless as character trading exists" but your not seeing the bigger picture. Someone else put the time and $ into that character, AND those skills are separated for that character only....not added to you own.
I agree at this stage of the game it is hard to entice new players to play, so maybe instead of outlining diminishing returns for older/higher sp players, just do away with that part totally. OR put in some limit per year (like remapping limitations) where people with say over 100 mil sp's, they can only add so many sp's per year and then effectively max out, and cant use any until a certain date.
some cap needs to be put into place somehow that allows the newer playing to get to a certain point faster, if they are willing to spend the isk or $$ I guess, but stop the super rich form become skill point gods.
I don't what else it is about this, but the thought of just insta training a skill just takes away from the game. getting skills to 5 is something you wait for, and are proud of when the time comes, knowing you've "done the time" waiting for it. I think with this suggestion the game will go downhill rather fast
Just my 2 cents
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5670
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:43:01 -
[399] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Rather than delete the skills option how would the OCD folks feel about a button that say' Do not show skills at 0'?
Then your sheet would be nice and clean but nothing would be removed.
m Us OCD folks would know it is there.
It is kind of like hanging a picture over a stain on the wall.
Plus it would still appear in the API. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
153
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Posted - 2016.01.19 01:46:28 -
[400] - Quote
Querns wrote:ViolentDesire wrote: Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.
The only thing that's destructive about this change is the death of SP leaderboard onanism. Fortunately, such masturbatory pursuits, like real masturbation, are completely meaningless. This is a god-tier post. Holy ****.
As to the TSPs, I initially had a knee-jerk freakout at the first DevBlog, but after I sat down and thought about it for a while this isn't really different from the Character Bazaar we have now.
All the arguments being made about Pay-to-Win microtransactions are the same arguments that could be made about the Character Bazaar, and I have literally never seen a single player give a **** about that.
If anything this means that you can start a new character in EVE and save up for TSPs to get a faster start instead of feeling like you have to go to the Character Bazaar to get a new character.
As someone who has played EVE for over 7 years, I have to wonder whether the people complaining about this are legitimately concerned about the game, or just mad because they won't be able to wag their giant SP e-peen in the faces of everyone in the game anymore?
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
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Shinshi Kuroi
NerdHerd The Explicit Alliance
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:01:30 -
[401] - Quote
This seems like a great idea, but I'm not sure I agree with the suggested mechanics and execution plan.
I don't think there should be diminished returns at all for skill injectors.
-BUT-
I believe that a reactivation and fatigue effect - like jump reactivation and fatigue with capitals and jump bridges - might be a way to keep the sp trading from getting too out of hand. A cool down timer based off the number of skill points the character using the injector has to calculate how long until they can use another skill injector - low sp characters might only have to wait minutes or hours whereas someone who has been training for years has to wait a few days, a week, with an eventual maximum they can reach. In this way you allow the low skill pilots the ability to make skill point leaps but also gives them time to go out and use those new skills before dumping into more. It also keeps high skill point, isk rich players from 'destroying' skill points, gobbling up all the skills points themselves, or from suddenly flooding the game with market/industry alts over night - but they can still get some nice chunks of time cut off some of those epic level 5 skills which take months to complete.
I'd think a similar system could work for the skill extractors, except in this case perhaps using a flat recycle timer akin to the one we use for jump clones.
With this kind of system CCP could even expand the Neural Enhancement Skills to reduce the fatigue effects slightly - again, like jump clones - or even make it necessary to have certain skills to implant specific implants to even be able to inject or extract skills. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
154
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:10:51 -
[402] - Quote
Shinshi Kuroi wrote:This seems like a great idea, but I'm not sure I agree with the suggested mechanics and execution plan.
I don't think there should be diminished returns at all for skill injectors.
-BUT-
I believe that a reactivation and fatigue effect - like jump reactivation and fatigue with capitals and jump bridges - might be a way to keep the sp trading from getting too out of hand. A cool down timer based off the number of skill points the character using the injector has to calculate how long until they can use another skill injector - low sp characters might only have to wait minutes or hours whereas someone who has been training for years has to wait a few days, a week, with an eventual maximum they can reach. In this way you allow the low skill pilots the ability to make skill point leaps but also gives them time to go out and use those new skills before dumping into more. It also keeps high skill point, isk rich players from 'destroying' skill points, gobbling up all the skills points themselves, or from suddenly flooding the game with market/industry alts over night - but they can still get some nice chunks of time cut off some of those epic level 5 skills which take months to complete.
I'd think a similar system could work for the skill extractors, except in this case perhaps using a flat recycle timer akin to the one we use for jump clones.
With this kind of system CCP could even expand the Neural Enhancement Skills to reduce the fatigue effects slightly - again, like jump clones - or even make it necessary to have certain skills to implant specific implants to even be able to inject or extract skills. Huh...that's an interesting idea.
I mean I do see where some of the people are coming from on the idea of the diminishing returns. If they are completely unattractive to high-SP players, the supply of them will be consistently low and the price will be astronomical.
That WOULD mean you could make a lot of money off of them but since most of the newer players these things are meant for wouldn't be able to afford them, you end up with a gimmick that doesn't get used.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
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Trinkets friend
Empty Vessels
2989
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:26:24 -
[403] - Quote
Exhumers 5, your days are numbered. My alts have need of those skills.
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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Random User83
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:34:41 -
[404] - Quote
Oh yes... OH YES... OHHH YESSSSSS all of those pointless mining skill points put towards useful things, like engineering and gunnery....
I'm a strong independant alt that don't need no main...
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2208
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Posted - 2016.01.19 02:52:26 -
[405] - Quote
It's official, Kil2 really is the moron who killed EVE. Not only can't he balance for ****, he also introduces ships he doesn't even know what they'll do and will require help from players to fix. And now he dropped this bomb on us. Well done clown. |
Daimon Tar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:05:22 -
[406] - Quote
I like it. Ive got skills I've wasted points in that I can give an alt or give to a friend and diminishing returns will mean there less SP in the eve-universe every-time its used. Choices are a good thing.
Its a shame this thread is a salt mine though. God forbid a new character have something easier than a bitter vet. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2210
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:07:45 -
[407] - Quote
And when the Goon/Horde RMT machine gets into gear just remember: we told you so. Just like we told you so with the T3D. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2325
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:30:07 -
[408] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:And when the Goon/Horde RMT machine gets into gear just remember: we told you so. Just like we told you so with the T3D. What, exactly, is the tipping point here regarding a goon RMT machine? Why would it be now, and not back when Technetium was hemorrhaging ISK in untold quantity?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:31:03 -
[409] - Quote
Querns wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:And when the Goon/Horde RMT machine gets into gear just remember: we told you so. Just like we told you so with the T3D. What, exactly, is the tipping point here regarding a goon RMT machine? Why would it be now, and not back when Technetium was hemorrhaging ISK in untold quantity? The tipping point is how convenient it is for the current argument. Tech is old news.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2213
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:33:20 -
[410] - Quote
Querns wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:And when the Goon/Horde RMT machine gets into gear just remember: we told you so. Just like we told you so with the T3D. What, exactly, is the tipping point here regarding a goon RMT machine? Why would it be now, and not back when Technetium was hemorrhaging ISK in untold quantity?
Explained here |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2325
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:35:06 -
[411] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Querns wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:And when the Goon/Horde RMT machine gets into gear just remember: we told you so. Just like we told you so with the T3D. What, exactly, is the tipping point here regarding a goon RMT machine? Why would it be now, and not back when Technetium was hemorrhaging ISK in untold quantity? Explained here That's pretty insane, man. Why would we use SP injectors when we could just sell ISK directly?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2213
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:40:16 -
[412] - Quote
If you had read it: isk isn't a limiting factor, SP is. Also Isk can be legitimately gotten via plex so there's a lot of competition in that. Alliances like yours have so much isk there's nothing for them to spend it on, it's wasted pretty much so this SP trading is one of the few good options to syphon some off that away. You simply need to create the demand and then supply them.
1 lure newbie into alliance 2 do the "well, if you could fly a [insert ship/module] BC then you could join in these awesome fights" 3 sell SP 4 .... 5 profit |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:43:55 -
[413] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:If you had read it: isk isn't a limiting factor, SP is. Also Isk can be legitimately gotten via plex so there's a lot of competition in that. Alliances like yours have so much isk there's nothing for them to spend it on, it's wasted pretty much so this SP trading is one of the few good options to syphon some off that away. You simply need to create the demand and then supply them.
1 lure newbie into alliance 2 do the "well, if you could fly a [insert ship/module] BC then you could join in these awesome fights" 3 sell SP 4 .... 5 profit Isk can be had via PLEX, injectors can be had via isk. There is already a fully EULA biding route here for an item which itself reinforces the value of isk.
If the competition from legal means works against isk sales, why wouldn't it work against injector sales using the same method?
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2213
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:48:25 -
[414] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:If you had read it: isk isn't a limiting factor, SP is. Also Isk can be legitimately gotten via plex so there's a lot of competition in that. Alliances like yours have so much isk there's nothing for them to spend it on, it's wasted pretty much so this SP trading is one of the few good options to syphon some off that away. You simply need to create the demand and then supply them.
1 lure newbie into alliance 2 do the "well, if you could fly a [insert ship/module] BC then you could join in these awesome fights" 3 sell SP 4 .... 5 profit Isk can be had via PLEX, injectors can be had via isk. There is already a fully EULA biding route here for an item which itself reinforces the value of isk. If the competition from legal means works against isk sales, why wouldn't it work against injector sales using the same method?
It seems you don't want to read, because it doesn't suit your agenda.
Lets say I have 2 trillion and (thus) I really don't give a fck about isk, but I do care about RL money. I'll buy SP from the market and give that to you, while you give me something irl. I STILL will have "too much" isk, now I also have RL cash.
It's more difficult to persuade people to use RMT when there's an official way (sell plex for isk outright) of doing it. Using SP trading adds some extra variables and steps that will make it easier for people to do/use RMT. |
Roc Wind
Light of the moon Fraternity.
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:50:41 -
[415] - Quote
I am not an active player but I have been training my character since 2011. I spend 5 years to reach 100 m skill points and what makes me continue to be an EVE player is that in EVE the skill points is priceless, only the time matters. Hi, CCP, I am an old player and if you just evaluate me by the money I spent in EVE I will be very sad. In the past I could introduce to my friend the EVE game proudly because it is sophisticated and need real time to learn skill, but now I can only say it is good because you can get skill very quickly. I miss the time I got up in midnight to update my skill, I miss the time I traveled everywhere with my laptop in order to update my skill and I miss the time I lost my internet and begged my friend to help me update my skill. I treasure the skill points because you can't buy it, just like you can't buy the time. I felt EVE was like the real life, only time will teach me how to be a mature man. Now, honestly speaking, I can't stand some new guys could catch up with me on the skill points with some ISK. Once money could dominate a society in most aspects, no matter virtual or real, the society will be no longer suitable for living.
I think it is time to leave my favorite EVE after you implement this mechanic. I have no reason to stay in this cruel and money-mad world. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
90
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:53:12 -
[416] - Quote
I like the whole "the way we are doing this means it's all still player driven" thing. It makes me feel a tiny bit better than if ccp just got rid of monthly subs and plex, and instead just sold sp packets and ships/mods directly for $$$.
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Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
153
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:55:56 -
[417] - Quote
I'm not sure how I feel about this, it doesn't feel like a step forward it feels more like a money grab right before the ship sinks.
I have to admit I am butthurt, I have what I have because I worked for it and I take pride in that.
Depending on how cheap or expensive this new endeavor becomes I fear this may bring in more WoW kiddies and with that even more crying about how hard the game is, will CCP then nerf all the things even more to keep the cash cow alive a little bit longer.? What ever happened to HTFU.? I guess it should now be PTFU.. (Pay the feck up).
This is honestly the best game I have ever played but it's ever so slowly falling from the top spot. |
Zee Zaugg
Quantum Star Conglomerate Syrup Fiends Republic
8
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Posted - 2016.01.19 03:58:47 -
[418] - Quote
Erotisk Folkdans wrote:Zee Zaugg wrote: Lots of players will lose a lot of expirience. We all had to claw our way into better ships, dying and learning along the way.
Ooh I was waiting for this one. You really can't stand the thought of new players getting something you didn't get, can you? They must be denied! Please CCP, don't let new players be competitive! They can die in their new ships and get experience just as easy. You just can't kill them as easy. I would suggest before you fall asleep tonight, think long and hard about all those new players having fun with a little more sp. Quicker than you had. Hurts, doesn't it? Pathetic.
Not really pathetic at all, though youre quite a ***** for saying it in the way you did.
The truth is, this is game breaking across the board. I dont pvp much, i dont care about grinding noobs to dust. In fact, Im a newbro trainer. It would make my job significantly easier if this was implemented. that does not make it a good idea. I say this in complete honesty, the most fun i EVER had in eve was as a noob in a noob corp doing noob things.
I still remember being a hero by bringing a caracal into that SoE noob arc with the cruiser at the end that shield tanked. Everyone was in frigs and they couldnt break his tank, we were all new, and there were like 4 of us. couldnt do it. Luckiiy my skill training had just finished for caldari cruisers, so i got my caracal and broke the bastards tank and we finally finished the arc.
I had lots of expiriences like this, learning this game and improving while you still see the universe with the new player beer goggles we all lose somewhere along the way. Taking this expirience away is a crime. Players can be competitive, players cn be able to fight back faster, but taking away the new player expirience is criminal.
And aside from that, im really more worried about the higher sp characters. they are the ones who will buy the most of these injectors, and they are the ones who will set the prices. They dont need the boost. I dont need the boost. A small step stool is acceptable, but an amount of sp only limited by the depths of your pockets, which for far too many players are way too deep, is a horrible idea. The strong will get stronger, and the only way for new players to catch up will be to pay for PLEX until they can cheat their way to incursions. Its not right.
Set a limit to the number of Injectors possible per character, dont make this mistake.
Id also be curious to know which forums CCP was reading that made them think this idea was widely accepted, as a vast majority of what I read was quite negative. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 04:07:14 -
[419] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:If you had read it: isk isn't a limiting factor, SP is. Also Isk can be legitimately gotten via plex so there's a lot of competition in that. Alliances like yours have so much isk there's nothing for them to spend it on, it's wasted pretty much so this SP trading is one of the few good options to syphon some off that away. You simply need to create the demand and then supply them.
1 lure newbie into alliance 2 do the "well, if you could fly a [insert ship/module] BC then you could join in these awesome fights" 3 sell SP 4 .... 5 profit Isk can be had via PLEX, injectors can be had via isk. There is already a fully EULA biding route here for an item which itself reinforces the value of isk. If the competition from legal means works against isk sales, why wouldn't it work against injector sales using the same method? It seems you don't want to read, because it doesn't suit your agenda. Lets say I have 2 trillion and (thus) I really don't give a fck about isk, but I do care about RL money. I'll buy SP from the market and give that to you, while you give me something irl. I STILL will have "too much" isk, now I also have RL cash. It's more difficult to persuade people to use RMT when there's an official way (sell plex for isk outright) of doing it. Using SP trading adds some extra variables and steps that will make it easier for people to do/use RMT. I read it the first time (look further down on the page from the post you linked). It makes no more sense now than it did then. Why would someone, as a buyer who is somehow deterred from RMT due to legal means being present, buy RMT'd injectors from you when the isk I'm buying from CCP via PLEX instead of RMT isk gets me the same legally?
It doesn't matter how many trillions your hypothetical seller has or how much real cash they want, the legal way already exists for those who don't want to RMT.
Agendas indeed. Buying things on the market, the very purpose of getting isk, legal or otherwise, is somehow enough of an obfuscation to make RMT more appealing for injectors than isk itself?. Right. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1400
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Posted - 2016.01.19 04:15:23 -
[420] - Quote
are we really going to use the "its for the new players angle"?
because if as a new player the only way to be on the same level as other new players is to shell out cash its ridiculous.
and don''t say "they can use isk" if its cheep enough that a new bro can make enough to get use out of them then they are just going to be bought as soon as they go on market by the people with isk.
the fact that they take a set time to produce means that even if the aurm price is low the isk price is going to be very high the only people able to afford these off the market are going to be bitter vets and people with the cash to sell plex
Citadel worm hole tax
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