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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Gregor Parud
Viziam
2227
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:41:11 -
[541] - Quote
Dibz wrote:I'm waiting, Greggy Weggy.... Did you delete your Youtube channel yet? 
Again, if you really think that your logic makes sense then nothing can help you. Nice alt posting btw.
And yes it's gone. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3343
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 13:41:55 -
[542] - Quote
Rizz Razz wrote:Dibz wrote:Rizz Razz wrote:Tristan Agion wrote:
I hence really hope for a low price for the skill injector, say 100 AUR.
500 AUR will be minimum i think ... and 3500 AUR wont be a surprise :) But we will see ... Anything over 500 AUR would be a total fail IMO. Don't forget the Blood Raider Accelerator Test ! CCP recognized that Players are willing to pay up to 300 mio isk for just 50k effective Skillpoints ... so why u think u can buy 500k SP for under a billion isk?
The blood raiders event was nothing close to what is being suggested. That was an insane event which everything started from and was sold in game, there was no point where RL cash was necessary for the accelerators. This by design Requires RL cash to be spent.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Gregor Parud
Viziam
2227
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:41:57 -
[543] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Damjan Fox wrote:To all of those, who rage about Eve becoming Pay2Win with this skill trading mechanic. Could you explain to me, why this method would be any more Pay2Win, than the current character bazaar already is? How often does this need explaining and why does this need explaining in the first fcking place. How stupid are folks? Characters bought in the bazaar come with a name, a history and choices in regards to skill training. You agree to buying that character then you agree to the whole package so changing ownership of that character does not change the basic "choices have consequences" core concept of EVE. The character remains as is. The new system allows you to syphon SP from any character with any background and any training choices and then redistribute that as you please. None of the choices that character made is retained, it throws the basic concept of EVE overboard. So a) it's so close to P2W it's not even funny and b) it completely fucks with EVE's main concept. a) of course it is Pay2Win! I never said it wasn't. Just like the character bazaar. Buy PLEX, convert to ISK, skip skill training time. b) That was never part of my question. So before calling others "stupid", try to calm down a little on your way out...
If you can't see the distinct difference then yeah I'll stick to what I stated. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
501
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:43:41 -
[544] - Quote
More money under the cover of helping new players instead changing old, outdated xp gaining system.
If I was a new player skill packets will drive me away from the game rather than encourage to play.
Why dimnish return at all? You already screwing vets with it, rellocating SP is useless on their high SP characters ( I don't mean creating alts here). If bringing more players with easy access to SP is healthy for the game let the credit cards decide, it all about money. Vets, what vets? If vets get more ppl to play with, it's good right? More money for you, more players on-line, win-win. I finally get what MMOG stands for: Microtransactions Multiplayer Online Game. In case of EvE hard to talk about Massive.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
155
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:44:54 -
[545] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:I have been playing almost nine years. I have enough SP to do anything I want in this game. I do not see myself ever using this feature. With that said, I still support this change, because it will be good for some people and will improve their gaming experience. That, and, it is no different than selling or buying a character in the bazaar.
CCP, this idea is good and you should feel good.
It's nice to find the occasional intelligent post in this waterfall of tears and salt.
It's becoming really telling that the people saying how this will kill the game seem to keep posting over and over, whereas we keep getting new faces popping in to say they like the change.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
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Mag's
Rabble Inc.
Rabble Alliance
21002
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:51:17 -
[546] - Quote
So this not a done deal that wasn't a done deal, looks to be a done deal. Good job.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Dibz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:52:40 -
[547] - Quote
Rizz Razz wrote:Dibz wrote:Rizz Razz wrote:Tristan Agion wrote:
I hence really hope for a low price for the skill injector, say 100 AUR.
500 AUR will be minimum i think ... and 3500 AUR wont be a surprise :) But we will see ... Anything over 500 AUR would be a total fail IMO. Don't forget the Blood Raider Accelerator Test ! CCP recognized that Players are willing to pay up to 300 mio isk for just 50k effective Skillpoints ... so why u think u can buy 500k SP for under a billion isk?
Sssssshhhhh!!  
Realistically I know 500 is a lowball. 1000 AUR would be a more realistic sum.
Let's say I wanted to transfer 10M SP from one alt to another. If the character I want to transfer the skills to already has over 5M SP, then I will be taking a 20% loss in SP in the process, so I will need to extract 12M SP to make up for it. You would need 24 extractors for that, at a cost of 24,000 AUR, or roughly -ú92.
You can buy 10M SP characters on the bazaar for roughly 5B, or 5 plex at a cost of roughly -ú78.
So yeah, with the added benefits of injecting SP into the skills you want I'd say 1000 AUR seems about right... but I still hope it's less |
Dibz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:54:37 -
[548] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Dibz wrote:I'm waiting, Greggy Weggy.... Did you delete your Youtube channel yet? Again, if you really think that your logic makes sense then nothing can help you. Nice alt posting btw. And yes it's gone.
I would have liked to have seen your explanation, but it seems you don't have one, so we'll leave it there. |
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
78
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:57:38 -
[549] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
it is amazing how many people with strong opinions on this subject don't know the character bazar exists
I think that is the reason why it felt more tolerable than skill trade, out of eyes is out of mind most of the time.
From now on it will be there just laughing at you if you don-¦t take any advantage of it.
I think I can only compare it to introduction of eve-survival in mission descriptions. It is fun to have it as a third party site players can use if so aligned, but only as that.
BUT, that said...
Diminishing returns is still too much, 5% for all (or up to 50-80 mil SP) would be enough.
Players in EvE learn skills and change corps to avoid tax even less than that (but there will not be skill to avoid diminishing returns, so less is justified here).
One needs 15 mil SP to make a good char/alt anyways, loss of 2 million SP for that just feels a bit too harsh. |
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
550
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:57:55 -
[550] - Quote
Of course the character bazaar is also PTW, but at least with the bazaar, the consequences are built into the system. You cannot order a custom character with the details you would prefer but instead are forced to purchase a used car. You get everything associated with that used character - it's name, employment history, contract history etc - which, for now at least, you cannot change. (Coming soon: Name change for aurum.) There has been nothing introduced yet that would allow players to buy SP in this way - consequence free - to upgrade their existing characters. Comparisons between SP-trading & the bazaar are either misguided or deliberately obtuse. |
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Josef Djugashvilis
3101
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:02:04 -
[551] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:A couple months ago we introduced the idea of Skill Trading which resulted in lots of valuable feedback. After going through a lot of feedback while refining the design, we would like to be add Skill Trading to New Eden and it is currently scheduled for our February release. Please read the latest blog from CCP Rise and Team Size Matters Skill trading in New Eden for all the details. We welcome all your feedback, thank you!
You have had a lot of feedback, mostly negative and have chosen to ignore it, so why are you requesting more feedback?
This is not a signature.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2233
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:04:04 -
[552] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:That, and, it is no different than selling or buying a character in the bazaar. Yes it very much is.
How is it more pay-to-win than purchasing a character? In the current scenario, I can sell one of my 2007 characters with 190m+ SP to someone willing to grind a ton of ISK or someone willing to buy a lot of PLEX. They instantly get a capable pilot which I spent years crafting. All that will cost me is one PLEX to transfer the character.
In the future, I could strip down all the SP from 190m+ SP to 5m SP and sell them to any number of players who want to grind for PLEX or pay for PLEX. That costs me however much AURUM (or ISK) to extract the skills. It costs them however much AURUM or ISK to inject them. How is that more pay-to-win than getting a 190m SP character?
The only thing CCP needs to tell us now is how much these extractors and injectors cost.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Mishra San
Forever Winter
Special Snowflake Squad
25
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:09:21 -
[553] - Quote
Baron Holbach wrote:sorry ccp this idea is ********, i have nothign against skill trading as suck
but you should not able to remove skills you already have - i would be fine if you can remove free sp or add some way to make it (like no skill in training, hello free sp, or some special skill you can train to extract it - not just any random skill)
also please add top cap - over what its not possible to add sp using that... like over 200m sp, no sp can be added using skill trading, otherwise im sure that Dr Caymus is soon no more top sp player in eve or whoever owns that title using years or very detailed sp training planing
even **** you plan do with capitals seems like heaven vs idea you can nuke your sp so you can sell it, i honestly promise i quit that game if you add thing like removing any skill you want from any char you own - its just plain wrong
Obligatory "Can I has your stuff, please?" goes here. |
Aerious
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:12:02 -
[554] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:Of course the character bazaar is also PTW
It didn't use to be, most of the trades were done through the acquisition of isk through endless hours of mining, missions, etc, till PLEX was introduced and P2W came a reality.
"They worried we would eventually offer not just vanity items, but ones that would give the Haves an unfair advantage over the Have-Nots."
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Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
105
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:23:04 -
[555] - Quote
I really wonder, if everyone saying that this is good for new players can do so while keeping a straight face. |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1796
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 14:25:43 -
[556] - Quote
Guys, it is a new micro transaction, better than paying 20 USD or even more 20 Euro or much more for 2 PLEX for a transfer of a char.
Smaller micro transactions like this will be available for everybody and push CCPs wallet.
Accept it, they have to make profit, otherwise they will shut down the server and we will not see any new releases :) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6924
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 14:30:21 -
[557] - Quote
Rizz Razz wrote:Don't forget the Blood Raider Accelerator Test ! CCP recognized that Players are willing to pay up to 300 mio isk for just 50k effective Skillpoints ... so why u think u can buy 500k SP for under a billion isk?
So it came to that...
ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.
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Riel Ra'Dib
Casimir Associates
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:37:58 -
[558] - Quote
Perhaps there is an alternative to diminishing returns based on current SP and the "instant alt" concerns.
How about a cool down on Injector/extractor use? Reduced efficiency if you've injected/extracted skills withing the last ~10 days or so. That way you have to wait between uses and you could choose to train a couple of new Neural Enhancement skills to manage the cooldown/efficiency of the injections and extractors, kinda like jump clones or jump fatigue.
Perhaps a step further, make several types of extractors based on skill types (attribute) with different tech levels tied to yet another Neural Enhancement skill or five.
Just thinking out loud... |
Riel Ra'Dib
Casimir Associates
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:47:47 -
[559] - Quote
Or how about a simple implant for self extraction? Install a -3 Perception Tap and gain the ability to start burning skills that use that attribute for SP and slowly trickle the SP back into your unused pool for eventual extraction or reassignment. An anti-queue. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
Sustainable Whaling Inc.
59
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:48:00 -
[560] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:This by design Requires RL cash to be spent.
Yes, but not yours. Buy a PLEX for ISK, redeem PLEX for 3,500 Aurum, buy with Aurum whatever that thing is going to be called. Or, you know, just buy it with ISK directly off the market. You do not have to spend real life money on this and throw the pay to win **** around when you actually know what the stuff is going to cost.
PLEX needs real life money to be bought. PLEX is sold for ISK, which can then be used to buy ships. Is that pay to win? How are the ships of someone that buys them with ISK he got from PLEX any different than the ships someone bought with ratted ISK?
When someone buys PLEX to buy officer modules for his ship, is that pay to win? By your logic, yes.
Do those officer modules teach that guy how to fly his ship? Will he win to someone with worse modules but the skill to actually fly his ship? No. He'll blow up every single ******* time.
SP doesn't teach monkeys how to fly their ships properly, so this can hardly be called pay to win. This new system does bring a few certain problems with it, but it's certainly nothing that will kill the game, nor change it all that much.
And now, HTFU.
Linus
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4504
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:53:00 -
[561] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:A couple months ago we introduced the idea of Skill Trading which resulted in lots of valuable feedback. After going through a lot of feedback while refining the design, we would like to be add Skill Trading to New Eden and it is currently scheduled for our February release. Please read the latest blog from CCP Rise and Team Size Matters Skill trading in New Eden for all the details. We welcome all your feedback, thank you! You have had a lot of feedback, mostly negative and have chosen to ignore it, so why are you requesting more feedback?
Just to make sure they could sweep it under the rug compared to money for skillpoints.
If you can't make a better game, just sell it in a different way. v-¦v
It's never what CCP say, rather what they do. And CCP are readying EVE to go F2P. You don't need a subscription to skill up if you can just buy the skillpoints, do you? And you can grind the ISK needed to buy those SP. So the game could be effectively F2P. "Premium" players would pay to get Free Skillpoints by passively earning them as now. Before that, all "Free Skillpoints" should have the same value to compete with injected SP, and thus CCP should get rid of attributes and learning implants. This idea already was talked in the past and likely we'll hear again this year...
The pot is heating up, froggies. 
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1438
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Posted - 2016.01.19 14:59:30 -
[562] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:OK, My question is simple.
After you remove the skill points to 0 in those skills you no longer want, can you remove the skill from your skillsheet.
I do not want a bunch of 0 level skills showing up. Why remove skill points if you can not remove the skill itself.
Please answer this CCP.
Why would you want to remove them entirely? Its your character ofc. And if you want to throw away the skill, that's on you. But I don't see why you would throw away injected skills since you had to pay isk for the skillbook.
Perhaps a better option would be an option to hide skills with 0 SP? This should be unchecked by default imo.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Albert Spear
Non scholae sed vitae
66
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:06:16 -
[563] - Quote
I would love to see a 3rd item that is a 1 time only item.
It could either be available based on time since the birth of the character or for a fee per million skill points.
This item would allow a player - 1 time and 1 time only for a toon to rearrange their skill points.
I don't know how many players have indicated that their initial allocation of skill points was wrong and that they feel like they can't use the character.
This one time tool would allow players to fix that allocation on the characters.
I originally thought that each toon should get 1 at the 6 month after birth point and that it should expire at the 1 year and 1 day point, but in discussions with other players, I have changed my mind, I think that there should be more flexibility to the tool.
I know, many of you will think this is crazy, but I think it will help retain people in the game, if they feel like they have messed up their initial toon. |
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
11
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:08:25 -
[564] - Quote
OK, so I've seen the posts now saying there is some issues when you buy a toon on the Bizaar. Last night, we had a guy that wanted to be recruited in our lounge that bought a 18mil Sp carrier toon for an unreasonable amount of money. He can't do anything with it. He's screwed and he admitted it. I don't feel bad for him. He made the choice. He was the one who didn't read the fine print when he bought the toon.
Good. I don't need that in my corp. Part of EVE is consquence and getting good at the game. If you're that dense that you can't buy a toon right why would I want a player who is new or has a young toon that is fixing his/her skillpoints? He still has months to go, but he's clearly not suited for what we do an a corp or alliance. Now, with this new... system... EVE can be over run by new/returning people who don't know what they are doing, dying because they don't un or getting rejected like that dude, and then quitting. Why? Because it's still not going to fix the skillpoint v skillset issue. |
Vasama
Nosferatu Security Foundation
25
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:09:51 -
[565] - Quote
Crazy Kitten wrote:
please add 2 new stats to a character sheet (similar to medals optionally public with default to being so):
# sp injected
# sp extracted
This is a splendid idea. Except it should be public like employment history.
Vasama |
cpt Varox
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
28
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:18:26 -
[566] - Quote
CCP, this sucks !!!! Yeah okay, it's a good ideea. Especially for old players that got atached to the game. It's a good oportunity to resculpture their characters after understanding the game better and knowing what they wanna do. But taking away 500k SP and giving only 150k back sucks. At least give half or 200k back . It's like giving a man in the desert a glass of water and tell him he can dring only half !! |
Zeddrick Anthar
Overheat Everything and CHARGE
2
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:27:15 -
[567] - Quote
Carper wrote:I have 257 milliion skillpoints. I have played EVE for a very long time.
The only remaining sense of achievement i got from the game was the training.
I can live with having this feature for low SP characters to help them, but 100+ million SP characters really don't need anymore assistance.
What possible incentive to continue to keep an account open for training is there - when some rich idiot can come along and in a single day create a 500 million SP monster?
For me, that rips the heart out of the game. Guts it.
And for those that say there won't be any Jita riots over this - they are right. But that's only because when things die they die 'Not with a bang, but a whimper'.
I know what you mean, I think a lot of people value the fact that their high SP character took them a long time to get where it is. In the original draft of this a new player got 500K sp and a high-sp toon got 50, meaning the high SP players at least had to pay 10x as much ISK/sp. Now with 150K sp they're only paying about 3.3 times as much ISK per skillpoint as a brand new player. But the spending power of a 10 year old toon is probably huge they should be able to earn a lot more ISK/hour if they don't have enough passive income streams by then to not need to grind any more.
If this feature is attractive enough for new players to buy a meaningful amount of skills then the rich players in the game will pretty much be able to have every skill going.
That's probably not a bad thing in the short term -- remember how removing the learning skills got a bunch of people to resub because they had millions of spare SP to spend. I imagine loads of people will come back, insta-train something new and have fun or just plex their accounts by pulling out that 'mining 5' skill they were so embarrassed about having. In the long term though I think the game will lose that 'must keep training skills' draw it has now and people will actually unsub more often instead of just plexing/subbing to train and play once a month. |
Dosperado
Denial of Service
Freelancer Coalition
76
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:32:46 -
[568] - Quote
Carper wrote:I have 257 milliion skillpoints. I have played EVE for a very long time.
The only remaining sense of achievement i got from the game was the training.
I can live with having this feature for low SP characters to help them, but 100+ million SP characters really don't need anymore assistance.
What possible incentive to continue to keep an account open for training is there - when some rich idiot can come along and in a single day create a 500 million SP monster?
For me, that rips the heart out of the game. Guts it.
And for those that say there won't be any Jita riots over this - they are right. But that's only because when things die they die 'Not with a bang, but a whimper'.
As I said, a punch in the face for all veteran players...but sadly we are too few to be important to CCP. At least cut this stupid system at 80 million SP. You shouldn't buy SP if you' character has 80+ mil SP. That makes no sense at all and shows again that CCP only wants to extract the last $$$ out of a dying game.
EVE Veteran
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Zeddrick Anthar
Overheat Everything and CHARGE
2
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:43:13 -
[569] - Quote
I think you'll probably make more if you sell the skillpoints instead ;)
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MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
158
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:48:32 -
[570] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:A couple months ago we introduced the idea of Skill Trading which resulted in lots of valuable feedback. After going through a lot of feedback while refining the design, we would like to be add Skill Trading to New Eden and it is currently scheduled for our February release. Please read the latest blog from CCP Rise and Team Size Matters Skill trading in New Eden for all the details. We welcome all your feedback, thank you! You have had a lot of feedback, mostly negative and have chosen to ignore it, so why are you requesting more feedback?
The negative feedback came from the usual few hundred angry neckbeards that scream the walls down whenever they change anything at all.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
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