I keep reading the argument that this isn't P2W because "Experience matters" in Eve.

Yes it does. In PVP.

Any noob with a CC who is interested in Manufacturing, PI, Mining, Copying/Researching BPO's can still leverage this mechanic to max out a character for his preferred Industrial activities, and can potentially still make disgusting amounts of isk because on the industrial side of the game, skillpoints matter far more than player experience.

Any monkey can go out and mine or build caps provided they have the SP and isk. It doesn't take skill to queue up jobs at a station. They've always had the isk thanks to plex, now they'll have the SP as well.

After thinking this over for a long time I finally decided that this change is good. Not for the game necessarily - but for me personally. I am playing this game for some time on four accounts that are all on paid subscription. I am far from being space rich but if I consolidate my assets that are not necessary for my current gameplay, I can buy app. 100 PLEX. As I do not really enjoy multiboxing, I do need only 2 accounts - the other 2 are maintained because it is cheaper compared to multiple character training, I need app. 15 mln skillpoints in total to have all alt where they should be.

My adaption plan:

So I will buy SP for the alts, consolidate my accounts into 2 and play on Plex until the lights go out or I lose interest. Even if my accounts go inactive over some time, its not a huge issue, as I can buy lost SP for virtual money if I feel I need to (at a premium ofc - but Its still virtual). So in my case, CCP will keep a loyal customer and I will save 720 EUR per year. Classical win/win, isn't it?

Free tip: CCP gave up bringing in new players when the Rubicon Plan was introduced on November 2014. Since then they've gone full ahead with splitting the content into slices of slices of the same old cake.

Point in case: Drifter Incursion runners as a minority within the Incursion runner minority.

To make not so obscene money from copy/research that would be a decade too late to start. PI is a joke, not obscene amount of money. You won't be bathing in isk either from manufacturing in this severely overproduced economy. And to even a scratch a decent profit from any of those (these days especially), requires decent amount of studying and befriending 3rd party tools/excel/etc.

2) CCP is a business, and ALL businesses must put the bottom line before the wants of any segment of the customer base ESPECIALLY a player base as narrow focused and childish as this vocal segment. You say you've played this game for "X" years...get over yourself. Your subscription time does not grant you access to the decision making process the company has to engage in for it's survival and long term financial health. CCP has shown us a glimpse of their plans and those plans are exciting, I can't wait to experience the next iterations they have in development. But guess what, those types of things cost money, and if it angers you that CCP hasn't just come out and said this change will help fund future development then you truly are as thick headed as I envision.

" pay to win" - you keep using that phrase, I don't think it means what you think it means.

first reaction for me was, eve is going pay to win,

it was said before when plex was introduced, but with plex you could have as much isk by selling it in the market, but then you realize that isk does not help you since you still need the skill's for the ship to be able to fly it.

now thanks to ccp skill trading they are making sure you buy more plex, exchange it into isk, buy the skills and be Op in overnight. I don't relly care how long it will be a day, a week or even months,

since the past 9 months to train my skill and be able to fly now the ship i wanted,
when i heard about skill trading, i thought it was a joke, sadly it was not.


they only way for me to see this working is when a person can play around with his/her own skill point made through training, and only be able to extract existing points he/she made and ONLY use it on them self, with cool downs like revamping implants points. no selling it in the market.


in the end at least for me, eve is becoming a pay to win,

it means i can pay for an advantage in the game if you think SP is not an advantage than you are wrong

your buisness would fail sir this is why ccp put the npe spin on this idea so that it would not be rejected as hard you need to satisfy the wants of your customer or you will have no bottom line

it means i can pay for an advantage in the game if you think SP is not an advantage than you are wrong

its very convenient that this gets deployed on 9th Feb as my subs start expiring from the 18th.

it means i can pay for an advantage in the game if you think SP is not an advantage than you are wrong

"responses that are so obviously ignorant to the ... state of CCP's business"

Please direct yourself to the Character Bazaar...

CCP is a business, and ALL businesses must put the bottom line before the wants of any segment of the customer base... subscription time does not grant you access to the decision making process the company has to engage in for it's survival...

Easing the burden of entry in this way will probably appeal to many casual gamers looking for a new experience...

Making Eve less difficult ... does not make the game less difficult

"advantage" != "win"

A Svipul has advantages over a Nereus in PvP - but the Nereus can still win.

If I'm in a fleet and we see a lone Sleipnir, we don't care if the pilot has 50 million or 500 million SP - we're going after it. And will blow it up either way.

A Vexor pilot with drone specialization skills trained to V potentially has an advantage over me - but that by no means assures them a win in any engagement.

This isn't "pay to win." This is "pay to be able to use wider range of in-game mechanics to do things" which is entirely different from winning.

And yet, you still overlook the Character Bazaar....you know....that place you have been able to buy SP's in the form of characters for years now.

Look, that folks (on either side of any given issue) are passionate about the game is a good thing. A healthy debate is beneficial to quality control - not the other way around. So, calling subscribers ignorant, na+»ve, thick headed, jackoff, scrubtards is maybe just a little counterproductive & makes one dismissive of everything you wrote.

On one hand, I'm excited as hell about citadels and looking forward to the direction the game is heading. But at the same time, I'm getting slapped in the face and told I'm stupid. Guess what? I don't like that ****. So I'm going to let CCP know that I don't like that **** because that's the definition of feedback.

YK

Some of said at the time when the Character Bazaar and PLEX were mooted that they were the thin end of the wedge and so it has come to pass.

You mentioned that you are a business man in real life, so I am sure that you are also aware that a step like cash for skill points may well turn out to be a giant step in the wrong direction in terms of long term future income for CCP.

'Think twice, act once' and all that class of thing.

My gut feeling is that CCP know this is not a good move for Eve Online, but that they are doing it to generate cash to fund Valkrie and other future projects.

2.) If, as you claim, you had indeed read the entirety of this thread, you would already know that comparisons between the Bazaar and SP-trading are either misguided or deliberately obtuse. The consequences for using the Bazaar are built into the system. You cannot order a custom toon with the skills & experience you would prefer but instead are forced to adopt someone else's used character - and the name, employment history & contract history that comes along with it. Those consequences are significant. With SP-trading there are zero consequences. None. It is 100% current character PTW and nothing like it has ever been proposed before. I mean, wth, if I care about this game and I'm not supposed to get excited about this - when, exactly, is it going to be time? This isn't boiling the frog - this is throwing the frog in the microwave.

Is it going to have any limit to the number of injections/extractions per time ???

Without that an Alliance with "unlimited" resources can start making capital alt pilots trained really quick.

With this CCP is taking away the rewards for time dedication to the game, i can see lot's of bad things to this without a number of injection/extraction limit per time. With that simple limit per time this can be good.

In terms of 'helping' new players, I am still confused how a new player who spends real life cash to buy skill points and to buy relatively expensive 'better ships' which they will then lose to more experienced pvp pilots is going to help new player retention and not, "screw this, all that real life money just to get ganked"

And you don't even have to earn the ISK to do it - just rack it up on a credit card

- but you know - It's not REALLY pay to win
- cause you know - the skill points were earned by characters at the normal progression rate
- well except multiple training
- But you know - MCT that's not P2W cause it's all on the same account
- cause you know - it's not like you will be able to transfer or sell them
- But you know - you could have already bought each alliance member a Capital pilot at the Bazaar
- cause you know - the Bazaar is pay to win as well
- but you know - adding more pay to win things won't hurt .
- cause you know - when they introduced PLEX you could then buy anything with cash
- well everything except skill points
- cause you know - buying PLEX was pay to win - well apart from skill points t
- so - you know - lets let them also buy SP
- cause - you know - they couldn't buy skill points before
- and you know - skill points were the only thing they couldn't buy
- and - now they can

- but its OK - cause before you get to be called pay to win you would have to be able to buy everything in the game using a credit card.