EVE Search - The end of Hybrid buff

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Ships and Modules

The end of Hybrid buff

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .. 18 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.28 21:17:00 - [241] - Quote Julius Foederatus wrote: My experience with blaster ships says otherwise. If the MWD speeds are less than 100m/s apart, you have a decent chance of catching him in an agility trap, but if he overheats at the right time you'll have an extremely difficult time trying to keep at him. All this while you continue to take damage and he's had nothing but your drones on him. Lets take a look at this: - Blaster ships already have more EHP and tank - Blaster ships already have dramatically more DPS up close (both raw and because of tracking). - Blaster ships already have superior performance out to pretty respectable ranges (15-30km) - Blaster ships already have to catch the kiting ship exactly once - and then there is absolutely no hope of escape. - Blaster ships already have very similar speed and agility. - Blaster ships already have control of the timing of overheat bursts (and have tank to burn, and have massively superior DPS) - Blaster ships already have a superior ability to adjust to range (as compared to projectiles). So on top of all of this, you are demanding that blaster ships have effectively a 100% guaranteed chance of catching a so-called "kiting ship". Seems to me that the fact a ship thats built for kiting is able to do it might be a balanced thing. -Liang Ed: I guess I'll address this too: Quote: Blasters should be able to scale in gang warfare farther than just solo engagements, where they barely have an advantage at all (and that's if we accept your argument to begin with). Why? Why do you believe that people should be using BLASTERS in fleet/large gang engagements? Why can't you use rails if your concern is range? Why does every weapon have to perform equally in every situation? Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
m0cking bird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 47	Posted - 2011.12.28 21:27:00 - [242] - Quote Gallente ships with their respective bonuses. Are either as good as Minmatar ships or better. Gallente ships have had perfect slot layout for a long time. The issue is almost exclusive to blaster weapon system. The main difference between Gallente and Minmatar slot layout. Is one focuses on damage and the other on optionality or versatility Something Minmatar ships have gotten alot of heat for in the past. Not being focused. However, I have been known to drop weapon turrets on Gallente ships to fit a neutraliser (Brutix, Thorax). Often does not hurt damage to much in my opinion and increases survivability. I've done the same thing for my solo Zealot set-up. Gallente ships were the third fastest in terms of base speed in the past. Amarr was second fastest, but now Gallente ships are the second fastest. Also, maybe all blaster ships should have their material cost cut in half. You lose them more. Why not cut the cost? So yeah! If anything. Amarr and Caldari ships are terrible for the most part and often have terrible slot layouts with few exceptions. -proxyyyy
Takeshi Yamato eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 49	Posted - 2011.12.28 22:02:00 - [243] - Quote m0cking bird wrote: Gallente ships with their respective bonuses. Are either as good as Minmatar ships or better. Gallente ships have had perfect slot layout for a long time. The issue is almost exclusive to blaster weapon system. I disagree. It's in large part due to rigs and Tracking Enhancers. Gallente was once fine and Minmatar the underdog. Continuous buffs to Projectile Weapons and other changes slowly reduced the usefulness of blaster ships however. There aren't any good rigs for Gallente ships: armor rigs reduce speed, astronautic rigs reduce armor. Weapon rigs could not easily be fit until the recent hybrid buff. Falloff rigs and TEs also work better for Minmatar because Gallente isn't about kiting but about catching the opponent.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.28 22:06:00 - [244] - Quote Takeshi Yamato wrote: m0cking bird wrote: Gallente ships with their respective bonuses. Are either as good as Minmatar ships or better. Gallente ships have had perfect slot layout for a long time. The issue is almost exclusive to blaster weapon system. I disagree. It's in large part due to rigs and Tracking Enhancers. Gallente was once fine and Minmatar the underdog. Continuous buffs to Projectile Weapons and other changes slowly reduced the usefulness of blaster ships however. There aren't any good rigs for Gallente ships: armor rigs reduce speed, astronautic rigs reduce armor. Weapon rigs could not easily be fit until the recent hybrid buff. Falloff rigs and TEs also work better for Minmatar because Gallente isn't about kiting but about catching the opponent. CCP is looking at the difference between armor and shield tanking and active and buffer tanking. I'd expect this to change relatively Soon(tm) - and frankly I am highly impressed with Tallest. Also, whats wrong with shield rigs? :P -Liang Ed: I guess I should say that there's only been one projectile boost. It hasn't been a "steady stream of boosts" - at least as far as I remember. Refresh my memory? Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Fade Azura Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 23	Posted - 2011.12.28 22:06:00 - [245] - Quote i am sorry liang but your last post trying to say blasters is all that is pretty terrible ... sorry but its wrong on every level that you claimed and i was about to make a huge post contradicting every point u made with eft comparisons to prove it to you but honestly i dont need to as the devs have already confirmed that more will be done coming springtime which are going to buff gallente ships more. at this point it really looks like your trying desperetly to prevent anymore gallente buffs which are sorely needed and giving terrible comparisons that hold no real validity under scrutiny. but seriously tho (blasters are effective to 15-30km?) are you playing the same game eve online that the rest of us are? a megathron with 3 tracking enchancers and neutrons can barely do that with null for terrible dps(which they cant use 3 TE on any real fit anyway). much less medium blasters which have less then half that range.
Julius Foederatus Hyper-Nova 31	Posted - 2011.12.28 22:07:00 - [246] - Quote We'll take these one at time, but before that, let me point out that everything you mentioned there does not apply at once. Blaster ships cannot by virtue of their fitting layout have more ehp and tank, dramatically more dps, better performance out to 15-30km (which I frankly don't buy), very similar speed and agility, plus all the other advantages in one package. You cannot fit them so that they can take advantage of all these things at once. Moving on, when fit for shield, they only have marginally more tank and ehp, and that's because of extra structure points. Furthermore, it is not going to matter at all because they cannot even apply their dps until they catch their target, at which point we'll be generous and say they've only taken 25% damage to their total EHP. Their extra dps is not going to make up for this deficit. Furthermore, Minmatar ships can tank just as hard if not harder when plated, and still retain all their nastiness (minus shield fit speed of course). You cannot plate a Brutix (or Talos for that matter) and still maintain all those extra advantages you mentioned below. They do have dramatically more dps up close, that much is easy to see. Frankly I don't buy this line about them having superior performance. At best they have similar performance, perhaps even less. If you can back this up with some formulas maybe I'll change my mind, but having dramatically less falloff (even in Null) usually means you cannot project your dps as far or as reliably. As I mentioned in previous posts, you only have to catch the kiting ship 'once' but you have a defined window when it will actually allow you to come out on top. Anything after that and you've taken too much damage to be able to catch up. I don't know what your definition of "very similar" is, but there is a deficit of about 100m/s between a minmatar BC and a gallente BC, assuming there are no speed mods. Adding speed mods into the mix makes the deficit larger, and of course by adding speed mods you're eating away at a blaster boats dps, where it is supposed to have its main advantage. This is all with shield tanking of course, armor just makes the deficit even worse for Gall ships. This is true that you have control of the timing of the overheat, and often this can help you greatly, but if your cane pilot is smart, you're not going to be able to cover enough distance before he hits his overheat too and manages to out distance you again. He's going to have to have made a mistake in following you too closely. Not to mention that this is assuming the same tank type. If your blaster ship is armor tanked, god help you. Moreover, the amount of time you have to spend trying to catch him while he's already firing at you means that your 'tank to burn' has already been burned up, and you have to hope you've got enough EHP left to make up the difference. I assume by this you mean the 5 sec reload time as opposed to the 10 sec reload time for projectiles. I'll give you this, but a 5 second differential is not a huge advantage that the outcome of the fight is going to lean on, most of the time. Another point is that ships are not 'built' for kiting, they are fit for kiting. There is nothing in that cane fit you used earlier to suggest that it is built for kiting, other than that you shield tanked it. But you can shield tank a Brutix too and still be a good deal slower. One of the underlying points is that kiting is way too ***** easy, you didn't even have to add a speed mod to be faster than the Brutix. In most MMORPGs, there is some sort of hang up to kiting, be it low HP, having to stop every time you fire (allowing a melee class to catch up), plus a whole bunch of snares and other abilities. We have none of that inherent to native blaster ships, and none of the disadvantages inherent in native projectile ships. On top of that the projectile ships have the greater damage projection, which is what makes up for the Amarr's lack of speed. Also no one is talking about scaling to a large/fleet fight. My example was a *** 3v3. If blaster ships can't even scale to a 3v3, that is a serious goddamn problem in the balance equation. I'm not saying you should be able to beat 50 drakes with 50 brutixes, but you should have a fighting chance in a 3v3 or 5v5, and at present you don't have any such chance. Also, if you went with rails, you'd get torn apart because your dps would be paltry compared to the ACs, who would be able to still control range on your and tear you to shreds by choosing to go in close. Finally, I feel like we've entered bizarro world with proxxxy trying to claim that Amarr and Caldari ships suck. They have better dps projection and better tank than either Gall or Minnie ships, and mid slots to spare for ewar. And I got news for you bud, if you sacrifice slots on a Gall ship for neuts, your dps advantage goes poof. The reason why people * about Minmatar ships is that they do not have to make any compromises in their fitting, for the most part. Want to fit 2x med neuts on top of a full rack of guns? No problem! Hell you can add 2x launchers for a little extra dps instead if you want. I don't see why you all think this is balanced, because a skilled blaster pilot can sometimes win a fight against a skilled projectile pilot in a solo situation. The amount of times solo fights happen should be telling enough that this isn't going to fly, but if they can't even scale beyond that then the balance equation is way out of kilter. You aren't supposed to balance games according to what the best players can do, otherwise the vast majority are ** out of luck. You're supposed to balance the game according to the average player's abilities. You can't make it too easy but you shouldn't make it ridiculously hard either.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.28 22:11:00 - [247] - Quote Fade Azura wrote: i am sorry liang but your last post trying to say blasters is all that is pretty terrible ... sorry but its wrong on every level that you claimed and i was about to make a huge post contradicting every point u made with eft comparisons to prove it to you but honestly i dont need to as the devs have already confirmed that more will be done coming springtime which are going to buff gallente ships more. at this point it really looks like your trying desperetly to prevent anymore gallente buffs which are sorely needed and giving terrible comparisons that hold no real validity under scrutiny. but seriously tho (blasters are effective to 15-30km?) are you playing the same game eve online that the rest of us are? a megathron with 3 tracking enchancers and neutrons can barely do that with null for terrible dps(which they cant use 3 TE on any real fit anyway). much less medium blasters which have less then half that range. You may want to do those comparisons afterall, because the reality of the situation is that blaster ships DO in fact have pretty good damage profiles. I mean, you aren't trying to armor tank them are you? O.o -Liang Ed: Also, 2 MFS Thorax > 3 Gyro Rupture out to 22km. ;-) Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
m0cking bird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 47	Posted - 2011.12.28 22:37:00 - [248] - Quote Takeshi Yamato wrote: m0cking bird wrote: Gallente ships with their respective bonuses. Are either as good as Minmatar ships or better. Gallente ships have had perfect slot layout for a long time. The issue is almost exclusive to blaster weapon system. I disagree. It's in large part due to rigs and Tracking Enhancers. Gallente was once fine and Minmatar the underdog. Continuous buffs to Projectile Weapons and other changes slowly reduced the usefulness of blaster ships however. There aren't any good rigs for Gallente ships: armor rigs reduce speed, astronautic rigs reduce armor. Weapon rigs could not easily be fit until the recent hybrid buff. Falloff rigs and TEs also work better for Minmatar because Gallente isn't about kiting but about catching the opponent. I'm not sure we're having the same conversation. I'm focusing on slot layouts and bonuses of Gallente ships compared to all other racial ships. It's clear that Gallente and Minmatar are winners here. The bonuses on Gallente ships are excellent with some exceptions (Thorax, (5% increase to MicroWarpdrive capacitor bonus per level) for example). Which would leave hybrid blaster @ the underlining issue for most. This would not be such a serious issue if Minmatar were not so significantly helped by tracking enhancers. Since I've already made the argument to this regard forever. With most of the community t=still focused on everything else that did not matter. I'm not sure why you'd direct my own arguments to me. Also, I've made serious suggestion to changing close range engagements\s. Things like a increase in warp scrambler and stasis webifier range. How armour plates should only effect alignment, acceleration and turn rate. Not overall velocity. Changes to sentry drones to enable them to warp. Much like fighters, but with minuscule base velocity. Anyway, if CCP did change auto-cannon falloff in a significant way. Shield-Hurricanes would be replaced by shield-Harbinger. Which was the way it as before. Most likely making the Hurricane inferior to Harbinger as a shield-nano ship and no where near the Drake or Myrmidon close range. Making it the worst tier 2 battle-cruiser again. -proxyyyy
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 399	Posted - 2011.12.28 22:53:00 - [249] - Quote When you're focused on something... and that thing is broken, then you're broken.
Fade Azura Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 23	Posted - 2011.12.28 23:17:00 - [250] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Fade Azura wrote: i am sorry liang but your last post trying to say blasters is all that is pretty terrible ... sorry but its wrong on every level that you claimed and i was about to make a huge post contradicting every point u made with eft comparisons to prove it to you but honestly i dont need to as the devs have already confirmed that more will be done coming springtime which are going to buff gallente ships more. at this point it really looks like your trying desperetly to prevent anymore gallente buffs which are sorely needed and giving terrible comparisons that hold no real validity under scrutiny. but seriously tho (blasters are effective to 15-30km?) are you playing the same game eve online that the rest of us are? a megathron with 3 tracking enchancers and neutrons can barely do that with null for terrible dps(which they cant use 3 TE on any real fit anyway). much less medium blasters which have less then half that range. You may want to do those comparisons afterall, because the reality of the situation is that blaster ships DO in fact have pretty good damage profiles. I mean, you aren't trying to armor tank them are you? O.o -Liang Ed: Also, 2 MFS Thorax > 3 Gyro Rupture out to 22km. ;-) ohh you know i didnt know i was supposed to shield tank my proteus? damn why didnt someone tell me that? and why did ccp give me all these armor subsystems? i am so confused ....

Naomi Knight Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 100	Posted - 2011.12.28 23:24:00 - [251] - Quote another failiang rant how awesome those blaster ships are Lets take a look at them: - Blaster ships already have more EHP and tank ... oh yeah 5% more ehp whohohoo awesome especially as it will be 5% less after matar loads fusion/hail i wish blaster ships could do explo dmg so this point is false - Blaster ships already have dramatically more DPS up close (both raw and because of tracking). yeah dramatically... 15% it is HUGE pls make a list at how much % dramatically superior etc starts end thx - Blaster ships already have superior performance out to pretty respectable ranges (15-30km) what? performance? what is that in eve?? arent you the one who is bragging about only ehp dps matters and while ehp isnt better than matar and matar takes over in dps after 15km i cant see that "superior" performance especially as i would say gall would be at disadvantage at those ranges so it seems another point is false - Blaster ships already have to catch the kiting ship exactly once - and then there is absolutely no hope of escape. yep no hope of escape for the blaster ship only if it kills its target, it is still slower than the kiter there is no chance to disengage so i cant see how is this an advantage for blaster ship , as both parties needs to kill/jamm the other to be able to run away sub web/scramble range and another false... you make more false points than true ones - Blaster ships already have very similar speed and agility. not even close matar ships are way faster 10+% half true...you can do it better... - Blaster ships already have control of the timing of overheat bursts (and have tank to burn, and have massively superior DPS) yeah totally doesnt matter when you can overheat yours for like 2 mins nonstop even if after that the blaster ships get in range the matar ship did enough dmg to be able to finish off the gall one especially as 2 mins should be enough to kill one :P have a good day i count this as true^^ - Blaster ships already have a superior ability to adjust to range (as compared to projectiles). ability to adjust to range??? what the hell is that again? the 5s vs 10s ammo change? i rly dont get it... especially as another "superior" thingy ,but this one is tricky 3 false vs 2 true 1 soso and 1 cant comprehend :) mark D
Naomi Knight Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 100	Posted - 2011.12.28 23:29:00 - [252] - Quote m0cking bird wrote: Also, maybe all blaster ships should have their material cost cut in half. You lose them more. Why not cut the cost? cause that is another racial matar flavour or advantage cheaper hulls :P for t1 definetly for t2 well it doesnt help that 70% of pvp ships are winmatar so high demand means high... m0cking bird wrote: So yeah! If anything. Amarr and Caldari ships are terrible for the most part and often have terrible slot layouts with few exceptions. yeah for close range yes , caldari ones are nearly useless par some ships and some is like 2 :P but it can be understandable as long as they are better for longer ranges ,but wait arty dominates longer range combats CCP fail
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.28 23:34:00 - [253] - Quote Fade Azura wrote: ohh you know i didnt know i was supposed to shield tank my proteus? damn why didnt someone tell me that? and why did ccp give me all these armor subsystems? i am so confused .... Its funny that you'd complain about the Proteus given that its actually a fantastically working blaster ship. Expensive, yes... but works great. :) -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
m0cking bird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 47	Posted - 2011.12.28 23:40:00 - [254] - Quote Naomi Knight wrote: m0cking bird wrote: Also, maybe all blaster ships should have their material cost cut in half. You lose them more. Why not cut the cost? cause that is another racial matar flavour or advantage cheaper hulls :P for t1 definetly for t2 well it doesnt help that 70% of pvp ships are winmatar so high demand means high... m0cking bird wrote: So yeah! If anything. Amarr and Caldari ships are terrible for the most part and often have terrible slot layouts with few exceptions. yeah for close range yes , caldari ones are nearly useless par some ships and some is like 2 :P but it can be understandable as long as they are better for longer ranges ,but wait arty dominates longer range combats CCP fail Why have I fallen in love with you?
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 399	Posted - 2011.12.28 23:51:00 - [255] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Fade Azura wrote: ohh you know i didnt know i was supposed to shield tank my proteus? damn why didnt someone tell me that? and why did ccp give me all these armor subsystems? i am so confused .... Its funny that you'd complain about the Proteus given that its actually a fantastically working blaster ship. Expensive, yes... but works great. :) -Liang You're right. Let us take why it makes blasters work... and apply it to all Gallante. In other words, give everyone covops. There, you can get in range now.
Fade Azura Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 23	Posted - 2011.12.28 23:56:00 - [256] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Fade Azura wrote: ohh you know i didnt know i was supposed to shield tank my proteus? damn why didnt someone tell me that? and why did ccp give me all these armor subsystems? i am so confused .... Its funny that you'd complain about the Proteus given that its actually a fantastically working blaster ship. Expensive, yes... but works great. :) -Liang you know i didnt think it was that good since if i use the standard armor buffer pvp fit and fought it with my alt with only 10 million skillpoints they can use a cheap ass nano drake and hit orbit at 20km and point and missiles and it loses terribly cause i cant even hit him with null and have no chance of catching it. ohh wait lemme guess i should have used a shield fit with rails and an active tank? lol please stop liang you are going to lose alot of respect on these forums with these terrible arguments that people are easily disproving especially when your so easily contradicted. just stop lol
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:07:00 - [257] - Quote Fade Azura wrote: you know i didnt think it was that good since if i use the standard armor buffer pvp fit and fought it with my alt with only 10 million skillpoints they can use a cheap ass nano drake and hit orbit at 20km and point and missiles and it loses terribly cause i cant even hit him with null and have no chance of catching it. ohh wait lemme guess i should have used a shield fit with rails and an active tank? lol please stop liang you are going to lose alot of respect on these forums with these terrible arguments that people are easily disproving especially when your so easily contradicted. just stop lol bring your cheap ass nano drake to Amamake and I'll 1v1 you in my Proteus. :) -Liang Ed: Looking forward to your "orbit at 20". lolz Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Fade Azura Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 23	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:15:00 - [258] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Fade Azura wrote: you know i didnt think it was that good since if i use the standard armor buffer pvp fit and fought it with my alt with only 10 million skillpoints they can use a cheap ass nano drake and hit orbit at 20km and point and missiles and it loses terribly cause i cant even hit him with null and have no chance of catching it. ohh wait lemme guess i should have used a shield fit with rails and an active tank? lol please stop liang you are going to lose alot of respect on these forums with these terrible arguments that people are easily disproving especially when your so easily contradicted. just stop lol bring your cheap ass nano drake to Amamake and I'll 1v1 you in my Proteus. :) -Liang Ed: Looking forward to your "orbit at 20". lolz how bout you come to amarr and ill leave my corp so you dont have to worry about getting ganked ... im here right now ill drop a can for you and your proteus ... feel free to message me ill even fraps it and post it on here when its over
vorneus Hub2 17	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:16:00 - [259] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Lets take a look at this: - Blaster ships already have more EHP and tank - Blaster ships already have dramatically more DPS up close (both raw and because of tracking). - Blaster ships already have superior performance out to pretty respectable ranges (15-30km) - Blaster ships already have to catch the kiting ship exactly once - and then there is absolutely no hope of escape. - Blaster ships already have very similar speed and agility. - Blaster ships already have control of the timing of overheat bursts (and have tank to burn, and have massively superior DPS) - Blaster ships already have a superior ability to adjust to range (as compared to projectiles). snip -Liang I have to say that normally I read and agree with what you write Liang, or can at least understand your point of view if I don't agree entirely. You clearly put thought into your posts, are a smart chap and obviously very opinionated. I have to disagree with the emboldened parts of your quote though. Mainly because they all seem to be sweeping generalisations that by no means hold true in all cases. There's also a lot of dramatisation in there like "there is absolutely no hope of escape", "massively superior DPS" and "tank to burn" which I find not only inaccurate but almost amusing as to how you've used such an exaggerated tone. Just for the record, I haven't been actively contributing to this thread because I'm happy with the Hybrid buff (there are also more than enough people posting in here :P) and feel like the changes have made a huge difference to the performance of many ships. The only reason I replied to this particular post is because of its flamboyant and OTT glorification of blaster ships. One last thing.. Liang Nuren wrote: Ed: Also, 2 MFS Thorax > 3 Gyro Rupture out to 22km. ;-) Where on Earth did you get this from? I read it a few times, and couldn't believe for a second it might be true, so I plugged it into EFT for a DPS graph (yes the latest version) and came out with a very different result. Exactly the fits you specify, 2xMFS on the Thorax and 3xGyros on the Rupture, Neutrons (Null) and 425mm's (Barrage) respectively. According to a stationary target the Rupture pulls ahead at ~10km, and at your stated range of 22km the Rupture is doing 117dps to the Thorax's 18. So yeah, I have no idea where that came from,. Hell even if you take all the Gyros off the Rupture it still wins the DPS battle by almost 4 times at that range (71 to 18). Maybe it was a joke? As I said, I haven't read the rest of the thread so apologies if it was taken out of context :) -Ed
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:16:00 - [260] - Quote Fade Azura wrote: how bout you come to amarr and ill leave my corp so you dont have to worry about getting ganked ... im here right now ill drop a can for you and your proteus ... feel free to message me ill even fraps it and post it on here when its over I'm -10. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren

Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:19:00 - [261] - Quote vorneus wrote: I have to say that normally I read and agree with what you write Liang, or can at least understand your point of view if I don't agree entirely. You clearly put thought into your posts, are a smart chap and obviously very opinionated. I have to disagree with the emboldened parts of your quote though. Mainly because they all seem to be sweeping generalisations that by no means hold true in all cases. There's also a lot of dramatisation in there like "there is absolutely no hope of escape", "massively superior DPS" and "tank to burn" which I find not only inaccurate but almost amusing as to how you've used such an exaggerated tone. Just for the record, I haven't been actively contributing to this thread because I'm happy with the Hybrid buff (there are also more than enough people posting in here :P) and feel like the changes have made a huge difference to the performance of many ships. The only reason I replied to this particular post is because of its flamboyant and OTT glorification of blaster ships. Liang Nuren wrote: Ed: Also, 2 MFS Thorax > 3 Gyro Rupture out to 22km. ;-) Where on Earth did you get this from? I read it a few times, and couldn't believe for a second it might be true, so I plugged it into EFT for a DPS graph (yes the latest version) and came out with a very different result. Exactly the fits you specify, 2xMFS on the Thorax and 3xGyros on the Rupture, Neutrons (Null) and 425mm's (Barrage) respectively. According to a stationary target the Rupture pulls ahead at ~10km, and at your stated range of 22km the Rupture is doing 117dps to the Thorax's 18. So yeah, I have no idea where that came from,. Hell even if you take all the Gyros off the Rupture it still wins the DPS battle by almost 4 times at that range (71 to 18). Maybe it was a joke? As I said, I haven't read the rest of the thread so apologies if it was taken out of context :) -Ed Sure, np. I was referencing prior works I've "published": http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-33 (Brutix vs Cane) http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-21 (Vagabond vs Deimos in kiting role, Rupture vs Thorax in kiting role, Rupture vs Thorax in std armor fits) -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Fade Azura Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 23	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:21:00 - [262] - Quote dont see how you think you can win on a ship which can dictate range and project more dps at that range ... at best you could only make me warp off which isnt going to happen. and only way you will survive is by fitting a active repper and rails which would not be applicable in real pvp scenario's and hence the problem with gallente is obvious ... blaster dont project dmg far enough and they cant get into range good enough
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:26:00 - [263] - Quote Fade Azura wrote: dont see how you think you can win on a ship which can dictate range and project more dps at that range ... at best you could only make me warp off which isnt going to happen. and only way you will survive is by fitting a active repper and rails which would not be applicable in real pvp scenario's and hence the problem with gallente is obvious ... blaster dont project dmg far enough and they cant get into range good enough Prove it mother ****. Bring your ** ass nano drake to Amamake, hit orbit at 20 and lets see who dies. It won't be me. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Fade Azura Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 23	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:30:00 - [264] - Quote ohhh someones mad ... lol low sec is the stupidest place to do a 1v1 test cause anyone can interfere. but next time i come thru there ill be sure to drop a thorax in the belt for you so you can test your brutix fit on it like in your blog rofl forum warrior you may be .... but real warrior you are not.
Fade Azura Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 23	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:33:00 - [265] - Quote and also i dont need to prove anything as i have already tested it and know it as fact .. unlike you who are spewing the stupidest **** that noone believes i gave you the chance to prove it and you cant so why dont you go cry some more .. your nothing more then a forum troll now as far as i am concerned and probably most of the other people here would agree by all the respones showing you that you are wrong.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:34:00 - [266] - Quote Fade Azura wrote: ohhh someones mad ... lol low sec is the stupidest place to do a 1v1 test cause anyone can interfere. but next time i come thru there ill be sure to drop a thorax in the belt for you so you can test your brutix fit on it like in your blog rofl forum warrior you may be .... but real warrior you are not. So this is you realizing that you were wrong when you said a nano Drake would take a Proteus? -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
m0cking bird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 47	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:36:00 - [267] - Quote Fade Azura wrote: dont see how you think you can win on a ship which can dictate range and project more dps at that range ... at best you could only make me warp off which isnt going to happen. and only way you will survive is by fitting a active repper and rails which would not be applicable in real pvp scenario's and hence the problem with gallente is obvious ... blaster dont project dmg far enough and they cant get into range good enough Faction warp scrambler and re-con like bonuses... Also, the Proteus is much faster and has better agility depending on the set-up. More importantly. The Proteus defences can be 300 times that of the Drake and can overheat for an obscene amount of time. You literally have proven that your post are not worth reading @ all. If Liang cont. to waste time responding to you. He has more patience than I do. However, I do disagree with alot of the points Liang has made, but it's not so important that I feel I have to refute them. Alot of it is just semantics. He is skewing comparisons and ignoring other factors. That I'm sure he's aware of. He has a clear bias and is enjoying flying hybrid ships of late and enjoying making arguments with his current bias in mind. It can only hurt him as a pilot if he truly believes it and ignores other factors. If he knows it and is just saying it to say things like I do. What does it matter? You just need to figure out what makes sense to you and stop being trolled... -proxyyyy
Large Collidable Object morons. 767	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:36:00 - [268] - Quote 5000 quatloos on Liang. morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army 248	Posted - 2011.12.29 00:46:00 - [269] - Quote m0cking bird wrote: Fade Azura wrote: dont see how you think you can win on a ship which can dictate range and project more dps at that range ... at best you could only make me warp off which isnt going to happen. and only way you will survive is by fitting a active repper and rails which would not be applicable in real pvp scenario's and hence the problem with gallente is obvious ... blaster dont project dmg far enough and they cant get into range good enough Faction warp scrambler and re-con like bonuses... Also, the Proteus is much faster and has better agility depending on the set-up even with armour plates and armour rigs (depends on your Drakes set-up as well). More importantly. The Proteus defences can be 300 times that of the Drake and can overheat for an obscene amount of time. You literally have proven that your post are not worth reading @ all. If Liang cont. to waste time responding to you. He has more patience than I do. However, I do disagree with alot of the points Liang has made, but it's not so important that I feel I have to refute them. Alot of it is just semantics. He is skewing comparisons and ignoring other factors. That I'm sure he's aware of. He has a clear bias and is enjoying flying hybrid ships of late and enjoying making arguments with his current bias in mind. It can only hurt him as a pilot if he truly believes it and ignores other factors. If he knows it and is just saying it to say things like I do. What does it matter? You just need to figure out what makes sense to you and stop being trolled... -proxyyyy Heh, well yes. I am aware of what points I'm leaving out - and to a point some of its lying by omission. I've been called out on a couple of the things, but the thing about it is that most of the people in this thread are nothing BUT EFT warriors with no real PVP experience. It really really shows too. Yes, blasters aren't perfect and they'll never be fleet weapons, but they're waaaay better than they were. The ships are easier to fit which tends to give me more tank, the speed changes make it WAY easier to bring blasters to bear, and the tracking changes make it largely practical to use Void. The 5 second reload time really takes the sting out of the Null -> Void transition too. I remain totally unsold on nerfing TEs (probably the biggest thing I REALLY disagree with you on) primarily because I shield tank so many of my blaster ships - and in absolute terms they make a much bigger difference for blaster damage application than projectile! But, I'm really looking forward to the follow on tweaks that Tallest has promised - some of them are quite desperately needed. I just hope he doesn't only look at blaster ships because there's crippled ships from all races that really need help. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Sebastian N Cain Aliastra Gallente Federation 44	Posted - 2011.12.29 01:31:00 - [270] - Quote Admiral Pelleon wrote: Sebastian N Cain wrote: Oh, working as intended? Why are the devs working on making them viable in fleet engagements? Explain to me, using your extensive experience in NPC corp fleet battles, exactly how blasters could be balanced to do anything relevant at fleet ranges. Sebastian N Cain:"Because they aren-¦t intended to be a weapon for a few niches." All weapons have niches. Eve is rock-paper-scissors. Sebastian N Cain wrote: The devs wanted -for variety- to have more tactics available than shooting from range. Sure, that's why we have close range guns and long range runs. Your tradeoff is more damage and less range with blasters. Either learn how to position yourself in a fight or die like you deserve. Sebastian N Cain wrote: So Liang hasn-¦t proving anything, instead he is evading again and again my question: what are the design features that optimize Gallente for close combat? I have pointed out that minmatar has multiple ones, and that at least one of them -capless weapons- are indispensable for close combat in fleet warfare. You're insane if you think that capless weapons have any bearing on fleet composition. It's all about damage projection, and minmatar are fantastic at it. Amarr as as well. If you buff blasters to have similar range you've made all three turret systems identical (excepting blasters doing 20%+ more DPS), which is ******. Fleet engagements are about alpha, not sustained DPS. Blaster boats are bad in fleet because they require you to move to your target before doing any damage, and by the time you get there, your competent fleet mates have likely already murdered it. Blaster boats faces at close range, and require the pilot to have competent positioning. Sebastian N Cain wrote:** Also they are saying that they are working... well i never disputed that, just that other races-¦ ships working as good as well or just slightly worse and a few even better without being restricted so narrowly. So what-¦s the point? Working is fine if you aren-¦t operating under heavy restrictions, if heavy restrictions apply, you need to shine to make up for them. Or you bring the right ship for the job and stop pandering to the incompetent. Without variety, we might as well all fly ravens and be faggots together. 1. using my experience, that may or may not be extensive, i am quite sure we shouldn-¦t try to make blasters a viable close range weapon, because they don-¦t have the potential to become that. Minmatar and ACs are far better suited for that. Give them the Blaster buff instead and they are perfect in close combat. Now just crank up their speed some and they are fast enough for fleetfights. They don-¦t even need more EHP because when they are fast enough, they probably can speedtank on their way to the target. Of course, ACs would also need to become short range weapons, but they would pretty much shine in that role. 2. yeah, quite some narrow niches we have: projectiles: all of pvp and all of pve, Lasers: all of pvp and all of pve Missiles: all of pvp and all of pve Drones: much of pve (no sleepers and some missions), all of pvp (but as extras because most ships can field some anyway, not as main weapons) Hybrids:...............................................they can be used in pve if you don-¦t mind needing an order of magnitude more time ......................... in pvp frigs and capitals..... stationcamping... suicideganking... .... .... clearly everyone is heavily restricted by severe limits of what he can do with his weapons, it-¦s not that just the hybrids got the short end of the stick... oh, wait.... 3. Oh, i have another idea: design the stuff for the purpose they should actually serve. they might work then without tons of crutches (webs/damps/nanos) that get kicked away or tons of preparations and tactics that gets screwed up as soon as the enemy does something you didn-¦t account for (he likes to do that, this is why he is called the enemy). It would be fine if everyone had to put up with that, but since only one system is requiring so much attention to detail with so little reward to show for it.... 4. well, let me tell you about a nasty little surprise that will come if blasterboats will ever have the opportunity to enter bigger fights (if the getting in range fast enough-problem gets ever solved). A halfway competent FC will notice that blasterboats are becoming a thing and he will simply change the fleet composition to more ships capable of neuting and maybe even dedicated neutships... whatever has proven more effective in the testing beforehand. So anything requiring cap for weapons and closing in on such a fleet will get completely capped out permanently... because a fleet can and will gang up on you and your gang. They don-¦t even need to waste shots on the blasterboats anymore, they can continue shooting at more dangerous targets. The blasters are effectively taken out of the fight anyway and the idea of using close combat in fleets will die... again. Now think a second and guess if that will happen if the weapons of the attackers don-¦t need cap? I wouldn-¦t even try as an FC, it-¦s only worth it if it becomes a thing and there are enough ships trying to get close and if their weapons can be shut down like this. You see, capless weapons aren-¦t an issue right now, but this is because close combat in bigger engagements aren-¦t an issue. If it becomes viable there, capless weapons becomes indispensable for keeping it viable. 5. Indeed, and if the answer to the question: what is the right ship? would be "Gallente stuff" now and again we would have some more variety in the game now, wouldn-¦t we? "You either need less science fiction or more medication." "Or less medication and more ammo!"



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .. 18 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.