What penalty should armor plates or rigs have if not mass or speed? Tracking enhancers are a range modifier. They are obviously a low slot module but they do have a mid slot cousin in the form of tracking computers. Would other mid slot module variations for damage ala msf/gyro/ heat sinks have a place in Eve?

Not sure what they would do with plates. Regardless, it won't save Gallante. Diemost with zero plate and 2 nanos goes to 2km/s. Vaga with same 2 nanos goes to 3km/s. It's a 50%, or 1km/s difference. Frankly, it'll get kited just fine without help of plates to weight it down...

As for mid slot dmg mods, I doubt it would contribute to much. Extra mids are hard to come by, except for some caldari boats, which frankly, suck anyway.

Shield Deimos (3 Magstabs, 2 Tes) outdamages Vaga to point range, where it matters.

Edit: I also have no clue why you're focusing so much on the Vaga - a ship which is designed as a kiter and only good against tacklers and ratters, and which will die against anyone competent otherwise.

What penalty should armor plates or rigs have if not mass or speed? Tracking enhancers are a range modifier. They are obviously a low slot module but they do have a mid slot cousin in the form of tracking computers. Would other mid slot module variations for damage ala msf/gyro/ heat sinks have a place in Eve?

Make it sig radius, like the shield rigs. Or something else, but NOT hull HP.

Mid slot damage mods are fine and all, but blasterboats must have mwd, point, web and/or cap booster. Frankly, there is no room for mid slot damage mods so the point is moot.

The regenarative plating module (the one that increases armor by a %) is a possible solution - if it is buffed a bit. It could be made slightly less effective than the plates, but it wouldnt destroy speed/agility. Kinda like a LSE for armor. I am no capital expert but I understand that module is actually used on some cap ships, so it would need to be limited to not make it op in those situations.

Regardless, I am no fan of shield tanking Gallente ships, but I understand it is viable in some circumstances - if you gimp your tackle. The 'natural' tank needs to be tweaked a bit. As I stated earlier, a 'light armor' mobility option. As Kingwood said - the way armor tanking is now just doesnt mesh with gallente engagement doctrine. It needs to be fixed so there is at least a non-speed destroying option (like a less effective LSE type module) for armor tanking.

Just IMHO.

Regenerative plate work because of percentage based bonus, much like trimarks. I wouldn't mind to see it buffed either.

As for shield tanking Gallante, it's a misnomer. Rather than shield tanked, it's more like untanked.

Confirming that gallente ships don't actually get extra hit points when you fit shield extenders to them :/

Diemost with 2 nanos goes at 2km/s. Vega with same 2 nanos goes at 3km/s. That's a 50% difference, plus less agility and acceleration. The fact that this is "second fastest in game" is precisely why Winmatar wins.

Here's to hoping that the idiots don't turn variety and varying play styles and choices into all the same thing.. not much of a vanilla fan myself. Want my ice cream shop to have a wide degree in choices for me to taste and enjoy.

Also confirming Gallante has the extra mids to pin down targets with webs.

This is not reality.

Abbaddon is pretty much the gold standard for large scale fleet engagements, alpha maels reach a point of diminishing returns once you fleet crests a certain number. Alpha isn't that important unless you are over 850 in system, and 250 pulse lasers will ******* wreck things just as well. Maels are so damned slow that they are relatively easy to out maneuver. Drop a Geddon fleet in the middle of a pack of maels and watch what happens.

Oracle, Naga and Tornado are relatively close depending on application. The guys flying them LOVE their Nagas surprisingly. The Oracle is facefucking DPS from a decent range....easily the best anti-support of the three, and the Tornado....well Tornado is as fast as a Fleet Stabber with a Maelstrom's guns.....whats not to like?

In BC's Drake has 85% more kills than Hurricane this month on eve-kill. Hurricane is a better hack and slash platform, but once you have more than 10 or so to a side the Drake is a better because it can actually survive an alpha or two. This becomes more important when you are stuck on a **** caged gate.

Dictors.....yeah all Sabre all day, this is unsurprising, the fastest ship fits the roll best.

Scimi is only situationally the best shield logi, mainly because the Basi is so bloody slow. The logis all have their uses now, Oneiros is no longer reviled.

Frigate...welp Dram is still the king of frigs, but holy hell the entire Gallente line + Dare Devil are just NASTY now, I mean nasty. I mean really they made my Ares faster....yes please.

T3 Tengu...need I say more

Recons are a closer race between Rapiers and Lachesis....again situational...but you rarely see either turned from fleet.

http://www.executive-outcomes.net/edk/index.php/kill_related/270351/42200 is what happens when Maelstroms meet Abbaddons, besides this threads about hybrids not lasers.

Yeah, one side having more than double, probably near triple the numbers (there seem to be some bugs on that log with many GS & friends Maelstroms appearing on the other side too) didn't have to do anything with the outcome.

Next time try to think before posting, less wasted time both for you and the rest.

Make it sig radius, like the shield rigs. Or something else, but NOT hull HP.

Mid slot damage mods are fine and all, but blasterboats must have mwd, point, web and/or cap booster. Frankly, there is no room for mid slot damage mods so the point is moot.

The regenarative plating module (the one that increases armor by a %) is a possible solution - if it is buffed a bit. It could be made slightly less effective than the plates, but it wouldnt destroy speed/agility. Kinda like a LSE for armor. I am no capital expert but I understand that module is actually used on some cap ships, so it would need to be limited to not make it op in those situations.

Regardless, I am no fan of shield tanking Gallente ships, but I understand it is viable in some circumstances - if you gimp your tackle. The 'natural' tank needs to be tweaked a bit. As I stated earlier, a 'light armor' mobility option. As Kingwood said - the way armor tanking is now just doesnt mesh with gallente engagement doctrine. It needs to be fixed so there is at least a non-speed destroying option (like a less effective LSE type module) for armor tanking.

Just IMHO.

Was 390 vs 310 Abbas, Guardians and Tengus vs Meals, Scimis and Scorps the log doesent show all the enemy who ran for it after seeing there Abbas insta poping to the crazy alpha. Oh i should probably mention that all the Abbadons where fitting 1400mm.

I see more than double Maels there on the log and I can't imagine half the Abaddons left the field without even fire once.

That is besides the point anyways. There are a lot of laser Abaddons out there, and countless fights where they won against Maels. Linking one out of thousands to make a point is beyond stupid. Strange how you don't see it, being that obvious and all.

http://www.executive-outcomes.net/edk/index.php/kill_related/270351/42200 is what happens when Maelstroms meet Abbaddons, besides this threads about hybrids not lasers.

In large fleet battles everyone fits projectiles be they Mealstrom or Abbado

Whats piontless is fitting Rails in a fleet battle.

Whats piontless is fitting Rails.

You're not too bright are you? And can't really decide what your point is. You gave an example of one out of thousands Mael vs Abaddon fight and concluded there's no point fitting rails in a large fleet fight.

Which might actually be true but your line of thought was something like: 2 multiplied by 2 makes 4 therefore the sky is blue. Makes sense.

Not sure if to laugh at you or pity you.

Lol, what a tard. Blob = arty or gtfo. Biomass yourself.

Well, looks like you missed a fairly significant piece of information.. something that EFT and Pyfa can't calculate. What you don't realize is that another factor is "hit quality", and that makes all the difference in the world. When you have combat at optimal ranges (and all other factors not coming into play), the percentage of barely hits, well-placed hits, etc. is a stable percentage, with the 5% being "Wrecking Shots". As you go into falloff, the TOP end of this spectrum degrades, meaning that there is a point in falloff where you cannot get Wrecking shots at all. (See Eve's information on falloff: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Falloff, under the topic, "What does that mean for Turret DPS").

So while it may be technically true that the average, unmodified damage may degrade slowly, when you factor in the loss of higher quality hits, the practical damage applied to the isn't unreasonable.

The problem is that the damage vs. falloff equation is applied to the normalized falloff of a weapon (ie. 0 to 100%), not the absolute falloff, in km. This means that a weapon system which benefits from extended falloff, such as ACs with Tracking Enhancers, will be much more effective out to greater ranges than other weapon systems, given roughly equivalent base damage.

There's your problem right there. Blasters damage and tracking are way better than ACs.