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SoapyTits
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 16:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
People are to overexited, so they keep saying: "OMGOMGOMG HYBRIDS ARE AWSOME!!!!", so CCP is likely to think their job is done, and then in a month or so the hybrid weaponsystem is gonna be the least used again.
Keep it down morons! You are ruining the hybrid buff, it needs more buffing.
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Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 16:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
SoapyTits wrote:People are to overexited, so they keep saying: "OMGOMGOMG HYBRIDS ARE AWSOME!!!!", so CCP is likely to think their job is done, and then in a month or so the hybrid weaponsystem is gonna be the least used again.
Keep it down morons! You are ruining the hybrid buff, it needs more buffing.
I've yet to experience anyone decreeing that "Hybrids are awsome" either in game or out of game. What I have experienced is quite to the contrary actually, that the buff has helped, but not enough. |

Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 16:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
I was fitting a Falcon the other night and I still get a better fit and more dps/alpha from Arties without any buffs than I get form Rails with a Buff. So no, when a ship with Hybrid buffs is better with projectiles then Hybrids aren't fixed. |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
315
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rails now has +10% of very little dps, +5% of very little tracking. Blasters now has +0% of very little range. Gallante slowboats has +5% of very slow speed.
Did it occur to CCP that adding very little percentage of very little is still very little?
If you're going to give +5% of something, make it 5% of AC range/dps, etc. |

Kush Monster
Big Tobacco F0rgotten Hope
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
The only pissing and moaning that I hear about blasters has been on the forums mostly from carebears.
every pirate or PVPer that I've talked to will never say their blasters suck. sure they'd love another buff but come on. Get within optimal and a blaster will tear you to shreds.
"Here's how to make mining enjoyable: a bullet, a gun, your mouth" -Haxtis
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Klown Walk
0nslaught.
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
There is nothing wrong with them. |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
315
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kush Monster wrote:The only pissing and moaning that I hear about blasters has been on the forums mostly from carebears.
every pirate or PVPer that I've talked to will never say their blasters suck. sure they'd love another buff but come on. Get within optimal and a blaster will tear you to shreds.
Lol, fail. When was the last time carebears used blasters? The whinning come from vet pvpers who trained blasters before Gallante got nerfed. New pvpers go Winmatar from the beginning.
Oh, btw, blasters suck. |

NightmareX
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
17
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Posted - 2011.12.16 23:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Oh, btw, blasters suck.  Suck as much as your skills to ?
I have every of my Blaster skills maxed and i have been using them for some time now. And even before the Blasters was boosted now i still found them to be awesome in close range.
You can see my skills here if you want to see that i'm not a newb.
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
315
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Goose99 wrote:Oh, btw, blasters suck.  Suck as much as your skills to  ? I have every of my Blaster skills maxed and i have been using them for some time now. And even before the Blasters was boosted now i still found them to be awesome in close range. You can see my skills here if you want to see that i'm not a newb.
Nice skills. Is that why you've trained Winmatar, and had Amar training atm? But tell me, which boats have you been pwning with your blasters? Diemost or Ferox? |

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
138
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 00:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Goose99 wrote:Oh, btw, blasters suck.  Suck as much as your skills to  ? I have every of my Blaster skills maxed and i have been using them for some time now. And even before the Blasters was boosted now i still found them to be awesome in close range.
Well done on missing the point. The problem is that lasers and ACs are, if not pretty awesome, then certainly more than good enough up close, while offering much greater tactical flexibility than blasters.
Changing blasters won't solve the problem of ACs and lasers being too good in blasters' domain. Pulse and ACs track too well. |
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Ejit
STD contractors
18
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Posted - 2011.12.17 01:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Goose99 wrote:Oh, btw, blasters suck.  Suck as much as your skills to  ? I have every of my Blaster skills maxed and i have been using them for some time now. And even before the Blasters was boosted now i still found them to be awesome in close range. You can see my skills here if you want to see that i'm not a newb.
Awfully nice of the previous owner to train all those skills for you!
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Noisrevbus
36
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 11:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zyress wrote:I was fitting a Falcon the other night and I still get a better fit and more dps/alpha from Arties without any buffs than I get form Rails with a Buff. So no, when a ship with Hybrid buffs is better with projectiles then Hybrids aren't fixed.
If this was actually true, or even an issue to begin with, it would indeed be troublesome.
It's a good thing for the rest of us, that it's just a figment of your imagination .
OP/whoever: Can we get a background argument with some real examples, instead of numbers pulled out of context, please?
|

RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
98
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 03:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Rails now has +10% of very little dps, +5% of very little tracking. Blasters now has +0% of very little range. Gallante slowboats has +5% of very slow speed. Did it occur to CCP that adding very little percentage of very little is still very little?  If you're going to give +5% of something, make it 5% of AC range/dps, etc.
Start adding up all those LITTLE things up. And it ends up not being so little at all. |

whaynethepain
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 07:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hmm, quite a difficult subject.
I started training Hybrids, but they performed too poorly to bother with.
The thing is lasers use electric cap energy to do DPS.
Projectiles use Kinetic energy to do DPS.
The hybrids use both, would this make them doubly powerful perhaps?
The expense of cap and ammo should count more, they do need more of a buff before I train them furthermore.
Then maybe we can progress to advanced weapon options, such as explosive rounds, penetrative rounds, accumulated heat damage on targets increasing damage, flak cannons, multi headed missile, shield or armer specific penetrative ammo types.
Dunno. Seems like things are just going in circles.
How about a carebear haven, all weapon fire is met by Concord, a few 1.1 systems, for the strict pacifists?
Is that the real issue here? Getting you on your feet.
So you've further to fall. |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
674
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 10:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Goose99 wrote:Rails now has +10% of very little dps, +5% of very little tracking. Blasters now has +0% of very little range. Gallante slowboats has +5% of very slow speed. Did it occur to CCP that adding very little percentage of very little is still very little?  If you're going to give +5% of something, make it 5% of AC range/dps, etc. Start adding up all those LITTLE things up. And it ends up not being so little at all.
Exactly - implementing several huge buffs at once brought us the ridiculously overpowered projectiles we have now. Better to change things little by little.
I'm not saying Hybrids are fine yet - time will tell - but at least they're not flat out broken anymore. morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
1541
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 11:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ejit wrote:NightmareX wrote:Goose99 wrote:Oh, btw, blasters suck.  Suck as much as your skills to  ? I have every of my Blaster skills maxed and i have been using them for some time now. And even before the Blasters was boosted now i still found them to be awesome in close range. You can see my skills here if you want to see that i'm not a newb. Awfully nice of the previous owner to train all those skills for you!
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

Kaikka Carel
White syndicate R.E.V.O.L.U.T.I.O.N
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 12:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
The most useful of these bonuses was the one reducing PG need. -12% was good allowing to fit 8 350mm Rails on Hyperion along with decent PVE fit with Engeneering only at IV. Also this helps when fitting a blaster Brutix. Now you can add exttra M CapBooster.
Though I guess this bonus is obsolete for chars with AWU at IV-V.
Also why "-12%"? Many guns end up with awful PG need numbers and then you still find yourself lacking something like 10-15 PG for the perfect fitting. Guess it would be more nice if it was "-15%" OR manual reduction with some round numbers in the end AND OF COURSE CALCULATION! |

Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
168
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 12:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:RougeOperator wrote:Goose99 wrote:Rails now has +10% of very little dps, +5% of very little tracking. Blasters now has +0% of very little range. Gallante slowboats has +5% of very slow speed. Did it occur to CCP that adding very little percentage of very little is still very little?  If you're going to give +5% of something, make it 5% of AC range/dps, etc. Start adding up all those LITTLE things up. And it ends up not being so little at all. Exactly - implementing several huge buffs at once brought us the ridiculously overpowered projectiles we have now. Better to change things little by little. I'm not saying Hybrids are fine yet - time will tell - but at least they're not flat out broken anymore.
there's still quite the space for improvement, but yes, at least not flat out broken atm. More like a bit underperforming. In the blaster front, there's still space for some more damage, and the hulls still need a bit more mobility. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
192
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 13:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hybrids are fine.
What remains is a once-over of the various hybrid hulls ..
Boost hybrids any more and you duplicate the fiasco that was the projectile over-buff that made them so good that they trump everything even on off-race hulls.
HTFU. GBTW. ETC. |

Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 13:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:RougeOperator wrote:Goose99 wrote:Rails now has +10% of very little dps, +5% of very little tracking. Blasters now has +0% of very little range. Gallante slowboats has +5% of very slow speed. Did it occur to CCP that adding very little percentage of very little is still very little?  If you're going to give +5% of something, make it 5% of AC range/dps, etc. Start adding up all those LITTLE things up. And it ends up not being so little at all. Exactly - implementing several huge buffs at once brought us the ridiculously overpowered projectiles we have now. Better to change things little by little. I'm not saying Hybrids are fine yet - time will tell - but at least they're not flat out broken anymore.
I disagree. Because the attempted balancing goes completely into the wrong direction. Gallente are not designed for close combat and sniping, in fact their design is from all the races the most incompatible with it, therefore continuing to force them into those roles will only result in failure. This is why people can-¦t agree wether it-¦s the weapons or the hulls that needs changes and how exactly those changes should look like: they all presume Gallente has to fill these roles, but since they aren-¦t suited for it, there are no satisfactory solutions. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
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Julia Connor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 14:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:NightmareX wrote:Goose99 wrote:Oh, btw, blasters suck.  Suck as much as your skills to  ? I have every of my Blaster skills maxed and i have been using them for some time now. And even before the Blasters was boosted now i still found them to be awesome in close range. Well done on missing the point. The problem is that lasers and ACs are, if not pretty awesome, then certainly more than good enough up close, while offering much greater tactical flexibility than blasters. Changing blasters won't solve the problem of ACs and lasers being too good in blasters' domain. Pulse and ACs track too well. wait... woot? where have u been? |

kyrv
S T R A T C O M
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 15:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Funny Thing is Gallente were FOTM years back but now everyone's got Gallente they will never be AS FOTM and you know thats the only thing the experienced players are pineing for.
Muhahahaahaha. |

Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 16:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
kyrv wrote:Funny Thing is Gallente were FOTM years back but now everyone's got Gallente they will never be AS FOTM and you know thats the only thing the experienced players are pineing for.
Muhahahaahaha.
No, the problem is that something like FOTM does actually exist. I sometimes wonder about how it-¦s possible to screw balancing up this badly. It-¦s like they have no concept of the whole thing, what they are doing about it and what results they want to achieve. I could do it better without putting in too much effort. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
320
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 17:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:kyrv wrote:Funny Thing is Gallente were FOTM years back but now everyone's got Gallente they will never be AS FOTM and you know thats the only thing the experienced players are pineing for.
Muhahahaahaha. No, the problem is that something like FOTM does actually exist. I sometimes wonder about how it-¦s possible to screw balancing up this badly. It-¦s like they have no concept of the whole thing, what they are doing about it and what results they want to achieve. I could do it better without putting in too much effort.
Winmatar Wins! |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
676
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 17:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:RougeOperator wrote:Goose99 wrote:Rails now has +10% of very little dps, +5% of very little tracking. Blasters now has +0% of very little range. Gallante slowboats has +5% of very slow speed. Did it occur to CCP that adding very little percentage of very little is still very little?  If you're going to give +5% of something, make it 5% of AC range/dps, etc. Start adding up all those LITTLE things up. And it ends up not being so little at all. Exactly - implementing several huge buffs at once brought us the ridiculously overpowered projectiles we have now. Better to change things little by little. I'm not saying Hybrids are fine yet - time will tell - but at least they're not flat out broken anymore. I disagree. Because the attempted balancing goes completely into the wrong direction. Gallente are not designed for close combat and sniping, in fact their design is from all the races the most incompatible with it, therefore continuing to force them into those roles will only result in failure. This is why people can-¦t agree wether it-¦s the weapons or the hulls that needs changes and how exactly those changes should look like: they all presume Gallente has to fill these roles, but since they aren-¦t suited for it, there are no satisfactory solutions.
Well - Gallente used to fill these roles just fine years ago -they were just constantly nerfed indirectly whilst other got boosted:
- Changes to speed, webs, scrams and MWDs in QR finally broke them - everyone thought it would hit Minmatar the worst, but all in all, it turned out they were largely unaffected by the changes. Every Blasterboat had an MWD and a web - kind of sucks to be Gallente when everyone can turn your propmod off way outside your optimal+falloff and your web is nerfed from 90 to 60% at the same time whilst base speed and agility is among the worst in the game. - Not only were some Gallente ships heavily nerfed with the introduction of dronebandwidth (whatever sicko came up with the idea of 75 mbit/sec bandwidth for the myrm tortures little kitten in his basement), but also medium and heavy drones received multiple nerfs over the years, which again struck Gallente the worst. - At the same time, Projectiles and tracking enhancers were buffed into oblivion which left autocannons better at being blasters than blasters themselves up close and the bonus of having insane falloff. - Thanks to on-grid probing, sniping BS fleets died and the only long range system put to practical use are arties, thanks to their sick alpha. So yeah - rails are dead - just as beams.
When asking for better range for blasters, people constantly argued that then, they would be too akin to ACs - well - maybe CCP shouldn't have made ACs the better blasters in the first place.
morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |

Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 18:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Sebastian N Cain wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:RougeOperator wrote:Goose99 wrote:Rails now has +10% of very little dps, +5% of very little tracking. Blasters now has +0% of very little range. Gallante slowboats has +5% of very slow speed. Did it occur to CCP that adding very little percentage of very little is still very little?  If you're going to give +5% of something, make it 5% of AC range/dps, etc. Start adding up all those LITTLE things up. And it ends up not being so little at all. Exactly - implementing several huge buffs at once brought us the ridiculously overpowered projectiles we have now. Better to change things little by little. I'm not saying Hybrids are fine yet - time will tell - but at least they're not flat out broken anymore. I disagree. Because the attempted balancing goes completely into the wrong direction. Gallente are not designed for close combat and sniping, in fact their design is from all the races the most incompatible with it, therefore continuing to force them into those roles will only result in failure. This is why people can-¦t agree wether it-¦s the weapons or the hulls that needs changes and how exactly those changes should look like: they all presume Gallente has to fill these roles, but since they aren-¦t suited for it, there are no satisfactory solutions. Well - Gallente used to fill these roles just fine years ago -they were just constantly nerfed indirectly whilst other got boosted: - Changes to speed, webs, scrams and MWDs in QR finally broke them - everyone thought it would hit Minmatar the worst, but all in all, it turned out they were largely unaffected by the changes. Every Blasterboat had an MWD and a web - kind of sucks to be Gallente when everyone can turn your propmod off way outside your optimal+falloff and your web is nerfed from 90 to 60% at the same time whilst base speed and agility is among the worst in the game. - Not only were some Gallente ships heavily nerfed with the introduction of dronebandwidth (whatever sicko came up with the idea of 75 mbit/sec bandwidth for the myrm tortures little kitten in his basement), but also medium and heavy drones received multiple nerfs over the years, which again struck Gallente the worst. - At the same time, Projectiles and tracking enhancers were buffed into oblivion which left autocannons better at being blasters than blasters themselves up close and the bonus of having insane falloff. - Thanks to on-grid probing, sniping BS fleets died and the only long range system put to practical use are arties, thanks to their sick alpha. So yeah - rails are dead - just as beams. When asking for better range for blasters, people constantly argued that then, they would be too akin to ACs - well - maybe CCP shouldn't have made ACs the better blasters in the first place.
Yes, it became like this through many small changes, this is why i was wondering wether they have an overall concept. Because it just looks like they are just making this all up as they go, improvisation is king.
And like this they have optimized Minmatar for Gallente warfare but added the most flexible engagement range, Gallente are gimped, Caldari has some ships that are op, some that are useless, amarr... well i don-¦t have that much experience as amarr so i don-¦t know their current balancing issues. Only relying on improvisation when doing something as complex as balancing has lead to the fact that game balance is completely out of whack. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Dead On Arrival Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 07:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Yes, Gallente need a few more buffs. See other whiny threadnaughts.
The thing is this. Lets take a Talso compared to a Tornado. An AC Tornado does c. 900 DPS out to 60km which is great for nothing much unless your fleet compa has some form of tackle in it. It does 1700-1900m/s with MWD.
A Talos however does 1380DPS on overload, and cooks into range at 1800m/s, which is enough to get that DPS into range fast. Large Collidable Object whines that the Gallente prop mod gets turned off outside blasters optimal range...which is true but ignores the fact you still coast into range and webs actually outrange scrams, so by the time your MWD is off you should have a big enough head of steam to get into range and stay there.
Blasters have sick DPS. Rails still suck, just not as heavily as before. The problem is that most Gallente boats don't push enough alpha to compete with projectiles for sniper fleets, and don't work with nanofleets.
The other problem is that sensor damps are too weak, preventing a potential scenario of sentry domi, sentry ishtar, damping arazu, sniper rail fleet from working. For example, if an Arazu's damp was as effective at knocking out a target as a single Falcon's ECM, then you could actually sit at range and eat away at people with rails. Sadly, there's just no way of getting Drakes et al's targeting range down far enough for an Arazu to be safe - and forget about larger engagements.
Gallente do need a solid coherent strategy. Minmatar get speed + DPS kiting. Caldari get ECM and missiles and stupid tanks. Amarr get tough tanks, decent ranged DPS (hello Scorch), and neuts. Gallente get gimped damps, long range points and...blasters? Yeah, that makes sense. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu
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Relnala
Event.Horizon Flatline.
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 07:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Blasters pwn face. As long as they're on an Erebus. With officer tracking comps. All the smaller ones blow though :-p |

Ender Sai
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
19
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 08:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Don't buff blasters/ rails, nerf everything else.
Ideally every gun should be as good as rails.
Everything MUST BE NERFED! No useful guns in my eve.
:MISSILESPAM: |

Funfactor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 08:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Another day i tested my vigilant (pasive tank with 2 magstabs) against dual rep absolution. I was surprised to see that in close range absolution couldn't do anything to me at all. It was missing every shot and I was nailing it hard even with void ammo. Abso could hardly tank my dps. Yet i have to say absolution's jamming drones didn't jam me a single time for some reason.
After this i tested vigilant against legion (pasive tank and 3 heatsinks) and actualy it was prety even match.
At close range blasters are realy nasty. However I'd say null ammo needs more range - optimal or falloff so you can actualy hit something at the range of 20km where most of the tacklers are.
Edit: forgot to mention all testing was in a dual DMG wormhole which explains why abso couldn't tank |
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