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EVE Ambulation (aka Full Body Avatar) Discussion

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
B1FF	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:48:00 - [1411] Originally by: Ruze CCP hasn't said anything (while very often, Lui Kai has pulled up the EXACT quote or video where CCP 'said something') At which point I've pointed out that the link doesn't actually say that. Then Lui never responds. Please see the exchange about features announced at launch time. Eris later directly contradicts Lui.
B1FF	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:49:00 - [1412] Originally by: Ruze But any possible use we've suggested for Ambulation, you've argued it needs to be available outside. And then you argue that if theres no REASON to use ambulation, there's no reason for ambulation to be there at all. What do you suggest then? What do YOU think could be added to Ambulation, that will be NEEDED and useful, but cannot be replicated while in-ship? Please share your ideas. You've given us plenty of opinions on why you think it will fail. So what do you think can be done to make it succeed? Already done this. I can think of two things. You've chosen to ignore them.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:51:00 - [1413] Originally by: Robrina Brun Well, it might end up being used for both. Sorta like overview settings. If you can put 'pins' on stars or locations within a star system, I could see it being used as a planning tool. "This system has a good moon at xxx, that system is good for a jump bridge." It could also be used as a medium term intel system, "This system has an enemy PoS at XXX and YYY with setups that are like ZZZ." And, depending on how long it takes for updates to be populated to those 'watching' the map, it could be used for op planning. "XX pilots were spotted here, they were flying zzz and seemed to be moving towards yyy." for short term planning. All seperate maps, all the same system? Maybe. Of course this is all speculation. I don't want anyone to think that we actually BELIEVE this is how it's going to be. But I feel that some still need that disclaimer, else their world crashes. I'm imagining being able to see 'pages' of maps. One page for intelligence, where it tracks data from the systems you own. One page for notes, where you can see uploaded plans, notes, that kind of thing. And a final 'page' for battle details. This battle-map, I feel, needs to be much like the mapbrowser, which I still use religiously. Pop it open, and it can give a fleet or wing commander quick intel on where events are happening. If you have a scout posted in a neighboring system, the FC can see what ships have passed in his overview over the last five minutes. If you have a rear guard two systems back, it'll tell you how many pilots are still in their ships, and how many ships they are being attacked by. And if your using multiple wings, you can assign system targets to help with movement. All of this without having to go into the map screen, which can be rather complicated. And all of this using the fleet 'broadcast' features, too. That's just me, though. "The greatest offense is no defense."
Robrina Brun The Blueshift Cartel THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:02:00 - [1414] Oh, of course. This isn't a "I know what CCP is doing!" it's a discussion of what a setup might look like, and what it might be usuable for. I somewhat disagree with your battle-map setup however. It's too hands off, and might create undue server-load to have the data autopopulated. CCP would know best about that of course, but I think that it would make things 'too easy.' The Battle-map functionality should be a tool for assisting a FC in planning. It shouldn't do the intel gathering and planning for him. That's why I suggested an intelligence officer becoming a new part of good fleet command. Someone who gathers the information as it happens and puts it into the map for the fleet commander and fleet members to see.
War Fairy	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:11:00 - [1415] Originally by: Ruze This battle-map, I feel, needs to be much like the mapbrowser, which I still use religiously. Pop it open, and it can give a fleet or wing commander quick intel on where events are happening. If you have a scout posted in a neighboring system, the FC can see what ships have passed in his overview over the last five minutes. If you have a rear guard two systems back, it'll tell you how many pilots are still in their ships, and how many ships they are being attacked by. And if your using multiple wings, you can assign system targets to help with movement. All of this without having to go into the map screen, which can be rather complicated. And all of this using the fleet 'broadcast' features, too. Neat idea but the lag would be insane.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:19:00 - [1416] I think both of you guys are right about the lag for a battlemap. But it would be so nice. "The greatest offense is no defense."
Ubu	Posted - 2008.08.01 20:34:00 - [1417] I have read far more of this thread than I probably should have. I have to say I agree with Biff on most if not all points. Also from where I'm sitting he seems to be addressing or as some of you would say attacking the concept of ambulation for EVE while a whole bunch of posters are attacking him for having a different even though well stated opinion. While many of you say this is just a first step and are looking ahead to what it can mean in the future I would counter that the first step should be, of itself, intrinsically useful to the game we are already playing. This so far does not seem to be the case. While I understand some players will enjoy dressing up their characters and possibly even making cloths for others I do not look forward to cloths that cost more than battleships. That would be silly but I'm fairly certain it'll happen. Add reasons for ambulation that cannot apply to the ship-side aspect. Restricting features to ambulation while they would make sense ship-side is the wrong way.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.01 20:47:00 - [1418] Originally by: Ubu I have read far more of this thread than I probably should have. I have to say I agree with Biff on most if not all points. Also from where I'm sitting he seems to be addressing or as some of you would say attacking the concept of ambulation for EVE while a whole bunch of posters are attacking him for having a different even though well stated opinion. While many of you say this is just a first step and are looking ahead to what it can mean in the future I would counter that the first step should be, of itself, intrinsically useful to the game we are already playing. This so far does not seem to be the case. While I understand some players will enjoy dressing up their characters and possibly even making cloths for others I do not look forward to cloths that cost more than battleships. That would be silly but I'm fairly certain it'll happen. Add reasons for ambulation that cannot apply to the ship-side aspect. Restricting features to ambulation while they would make sense ship-side is the wrong way. And I agree with that. As I've told that other guy, too. But my question is, 'What are your suggestions?' Hell, the few suggestions I have made have been argued that they'd be better off outside of ambulation. If every expansion or addition to game could be argued as more useful outside, where do we stand then? So releasing Ambulation, wholesale, without a useful design principle would be folly. That has been said MANY times, by MANY people, and I'm taking a wild guess when I say that CCP probably knows this. But what usefulness can be applied to the product that isn't completely segregated and only applicable for those who use Ambulation? My other argument is, quite simply, what is wrong with making useful features that the pilots want, available ONLY to ambulation? There are many parts of this game that if you want to enjoy, you have to go to it. I argue with every 0.0 alliance that wants to join the militia, and I argue with every high-sec missioner that wants level 5's and 10/10 complexes. There is nothing, I think, that is wrong with providing certain functionality ONLY to those who are willing to go and get it. It's not like your having to buy a second game or pay for the expansion. All you have to do is dock, get out, and walk to it. That's it. Your not even risking anything. But the point that you, and B1FF, and countless others before, and as far as I know all the way back to 2005 and before, have made is valid. Ambulation without real usefullness, is nothing but novelty. Agreed. "The greatest offense is no defense."
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.01 22:01:00 - [1419] Originally by: Ruze Ambulation without real usefullness, is nothing but novelty. Agreed. Games in general have no usefulness and are nothing but novelties. I was always under the impression that games were for having fun with, and as long as people have fun walking around, going to bars, buying clothes, etc, then it's not any more a novelty than fleet combat or manufacturing or missions.
Robrina Brun The Blueshift Cartel THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.01 22:11:00 - [1420] I'm not sure, but we might be talking to a sockpuppet.. anyways. As far as I can see, amongst the ambulation features that have been announced (but not confirmed), the only one that makes any sense to be used while "In Pod" is the Tactical Map. Of course, little IC reasons can be made to prevent it from being edited while in the field. Gambling and mini-games seem out of place as part of a combat vessels computer software compliment. You don't want G'narg, the Navigation slave playing dice instead of keeping the sensors properly aligned. The rest: housing, bars, deeper character customization; are decidedly ambulation based. And, as far as that one special dress costing more than a battleship. We are the social elite of the EvE universe, 1 isk is enough to feed a family of four for a year, probably several. Of course we're going to be buying clothing that is insanely expensive.
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2008.08.01 22:38:00 - [1421] The only mechanic I can think of to encourage ambulation without requiring it is an accelerated training time while out of pod but logged in. But honestly, an artificial mechanic like that still isn't good for the feature, and ultimately would just lead to folks standing around AFK all day, anyway. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Falkus Windowmaker Minmatar Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.02 00:02:00 - [1422] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Ruze Ambulation without real usefullness, is nothing but novelty. Agreed. Games in general have no usefulness and are nothing but novelties. I was always under the impression that games were for having fun with, and as long as people have fun walking around, going to bars, buying clothes, etc, then it's not any more a novelty than fleet combat or manufacturing or missions. Also a very good point. I used to play Matrix Online, back before SOE bought it. There wasn't a lot of diversity in missions, PvP was kind of a sham, but I spent so much time partying. There wasn't any level gain or money being made with it, but it was fun, in it's way. SOE didn't buy Matrix Online. Matrix Online was given away for free by Warner Bros in exchange for selling the rights to the DC comics MMO IP license to SOE. In fact Warner Bros couldn't wait to get the Martix Online off their hands because it was such an epic failure. Also SOE was not even interested in acquiring the Martix Online at the time either but free is free.
Al Thorr Caldari The Wheel	Posted - 2008.08.02 00:07:00 - [1423] Ambulation will cause lag. Fact. Its relatively simple to work out why. Nuff sed really Lets hope it never comes to light. just like reverse engineering Regards Al Thorr "You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
Eve Spair Caldari Black Mesa	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:48:00 - [1424] Originally by: Al Thorr Ambulation will cause lag. Fact. Its relatively simple to work out why. Nuff sed really Lets hope it never comes to light. just like reverse engineering Regards Al Thorr fail, ambulation will be on different servers and thus will NOT affect the regular server(s) in anyway. Meaning no additional lag whatsoever. Please read up on the matter before stating such a ridiculous claim.
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:49:00 - [1425] This whole conversation would be a lot smoother if we could somehow set it up so that people have to pass a test before they can post here. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Flamewave Crimson Moon Society	Posted - 2008.08.02 02:24:00 - [1426] Originally by: Al Thorr Ambulation will cause lag. Fact. Its relatively simple to work out why. Nuff sed really Lets hope it never comes to light. just like reverse engineering Regards Al Thorr A butterfly flaps its wings in Central Park and the Eve cluster lags? __________
Al Thorr Caldari The Wheel	Posted - 2008.08.02 09:25:00 - [1427] Well the way I see it .... Especially if you squint really hard ... The fact that it is on a seperate serer means that lag mnust occur. as you are changing from server to server as you ambulate and fly etc. Imagine jita for example - yes yes I know worst case scenario. imagine 50% of population there changing between ambulation / eve servers and back every couple of minutes. Surely that would cause lag. I admit that Ambulation per se will not cuase the lag. just the getting to and from the servers. Just a Thought Regards Al Thorr "You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
bUBbLeS Minmatar Morne Attitude	Posted - 2008.08.02 11:57:00 - [1428] if it was on another server cluster to the "outside"- it wouldnt matter, you dont want to be going "outside" unless your in a ship do you? also would give extra server power for mini-pets Insert cAKe here!!!
Dictum Factum Gemini Sun Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.08.02 12:20:00 - [1429] Originally by: bUBbLeS also would give extra server power for mini-pets There goes the neighborhood. I know less than you think I do. Gemini Sun is Recruiting
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.02 13:26:00 - [1430] Originally by: Al Thorr Well the way I see it .... Especially if you squint really hard ... The fact that it is on a seperate serer means that lag mnust occur. as you are changing from server to server as you ambulate and fly etc. Imagine jita for example - yes yes I know worst case scenario. imagine 50% of population there changing between ambulation / eve servers and back every couple of minutes. Surely that would cause lag. I admit that Ambulation per se will not cuase the lag. just the getting to and from the servers. Yeah, you could generate about the same lag with log-offs and log-ins, which when done in mass can really effect a system. You won't be lagging in ambulation as you walk around, and you won't be lagging BECAUSE of people walking around in Ambulation, but as people keep having to load up your system coming back to their ships from the Ambulation servers, it could and probably would cause a small bit of lag, especially done in mass. Only time I can see it being noticable is if a corp gets an emergency notification during a party or meeting or some such. "The greatest offense is no defense."
Nottingham Lace Gallente Pew Pew Industries	Posted - 2008.08.02 14:13:00 - [1431] this looks alright if it will be in game in 6 months or less if its going to take year or more, it wont be so sweet later on
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.02 15:00:00 - [1432] I've been waiting and daydreaming about ambulation since 2005. I can wait another year. "The greatest offense is no defense."
Lafe Baptism oF Fire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.08.02 15:19:00 - [1433] In a strange kind of way I'm looking forward to this. Probably because I get to make a new portrait for all my characters (right?). And oh, also because IAC probably will open a big, fat bar somewhere in a Jita station near you.
Yargan Rasaan	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:43:00 - [1434] Edited by: Yargan Rasaan on 02/08/2008 17:45:46 Originally by: B1FF Originally by: Yargan Rasaan One point (made by B1FF, I think) actually does concern me. Ambu being on a different server with the impossibility of speaking with persons outside. Since i can't be bothered to file through the whole thread, can anyone please enlighten me on this? Normal chat channels are not going away. The problem is that a station is the smallest possible subset of people in the game. With the current system we can interact socially with anyone anywhere anytime. So are you going to talk to the handful that are docked where you are _and_ in ambu or are you going to talk to your corp? Since that would be a result of different servers being used for each, it's a fact that this is going to happen? If so, not well indeed. Me not being a computerist meself can only hope CCP will come up with a solution for this. Would a third server just for chat be helpful? Or am I just being silly? Note: I can't wait for ambulation. Just having concerns.
Borg9	Posted - 2008.08.02 18:55:00 - [1435] Originally by: Al Thorr Ambulation will cause lag. Fact. Its relatively simple to work out why. Nuff sed really Lets hope it never comes to light. just like reverse engineering Regards Al Thorr Dude stop drivin the failbus....if half the ppl in eve are on the ambulation server then that means that only half of eve will be on the space server meaning less lag. So your pretty much dividing the population between 2 servers.
Big Trader	Posted - 2008.08.02 19:51:00 - [1436] Originally by: Yargan Rasaan Since that would be a result of different servers being used for each, it's a fact that this is going to happen? If so, not well indeed. Me not being a computerist meself can only hope CCP will come up with a solution for this. Would a third server just for chat be helpful? Or am I just being silly? Note: I can't wait for ambulation. Just having concerns. What? No, you still get your "Alliance" channel, you still get your "Corp" channel, you still get all your other normal channels like usual. What might change is that instead of speaking in "local" that goes star system-wide, it becomes more of a "Everyone on station" sort of local. The chat channels are already on a 'seperate' server, somewhat. B1FF just likes to spin things to look worse than they really are.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.02 19:56:00 - [1437] Eh, we all spin the dradle now and then. Obviously our perception of words and whispers will suit our own personal opinions. That's just being human. What WAS talked about in the tentonhammer vid was that each room having it's own chat 'channel', with rooms actually having user limits. They seem to be focusing alot on allowing your character, when speaking to another player, to look and interact ... emotes, smiles, etc. I haven't seen a specific reference saying that a player won't be able to see local. I haven't seen any reference saying that a player won't be able to see a station-wide channel, or if each individual room will actually have it's own channel. But me? I'm just personally against local in general. Both as an intel tool AND as a spam channel that only the fools can shut off. So of course, I'm going to be hoping for 'no-local' ambulation. "The greatest offense is no defense."
Yargan Rasaan Gallente Informal Syndicate of Pilots	Posted - 2008.08.03 08:49:00 - [1438] Edited by: Yargan Rasaan on 03/08/2008 08:55:31 Originally by: Ruze I haven't seen a specific reference saying that a player won't be able to see local. I haven't seen any reference saying that a player won't be able to see a station-wide channel, or if each individual room will actually have it's own channel. But me? I'm just personally against local in general. Both as an intel tool AND as a spam channel that only the fools can shut off. So of course, I'm going to be hoping for 'no-local' ambulation. In that case... BRING IT ON! Yeah, I got that whole chat-channel thingy wrong. I sometimes wish I could turn off local, too. THX for enlightening me, folks! So, back to ideas and suggestions. I know it's been mentioned a lot, but concerning maybe some day being able to land on planets: wouldn't that bring a whole new varitey/more possibilities for trade, production etc.? I'm talking about such simple but nonetheless important things as food! Corporations growing veggies on a planet to feed their npc-employees, stuff like that. Plus it just fells right to land on a PLANET for once. I had been a bit disappointed when I first started playing Eve, not being able to land on planets. Feels natural to me. After all, we live on one in RL. Edit: Just read my post again. This is actually not necesserily ambulation related. But it would be great to walk under a blue sky! Gives the old Privateer/Freelancer feeling.
bUBbLeS Minmatar Morne Attitude	Posted - 2008.08.03 11:17:00 - [1439] Originally by: Yargan Rasaan So, back to ideas and suggestions. I know it's been mentioned a lot, but concerning maybe some day being able to land on planets: wouldn't that bring a whole new varitey/more possibilities for trade, production etc.? I'm talking about such simple but nonetheless important things as food! Corporations growing veggies on a planet to feed their npc-employees, stuff like that. And you'd be able to catch mini-pets Insert cAKe here!!!
Anosse Amarr Wildlands Heavy Technologies FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.08.04 03:34:00 - [1440] I'd like it if there were different styles of clothing available in different areas of space, that way you can tell where a person has been.

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