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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1710
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Posted - 2016.09.01 16:20:48 -
[931] - Quote
There's been some absolutely horrible posts so far, mainly due to ignorance (people clearly not reading for devblog) or just some extremely convulated explanations of how this will kill eve (one particular favourite was how it was going to harm the skill injector market).
Overall I think only three valid concerns have been raised throughout this almost 50 page shitfest ( honestly I thought the eve forum community was smarter than what has been demonstrated here):
1. Simultaneous account logging.
2. Safety settings.
3. Chat limitations.
I'm not going to debunk or explain to any of you that might think you have other valid concerns (spoiler: you don't) as it's already been done multiple times.
This is not 'F2P', this is an update to the current trial system to encourage more subscriptions and also retain current subscriptions.
Most people who actually play this game and make active contributions to it should have a problem with more players entering the arena.
And to all the people crying about how f2p "killed" other games, you couldn't be further from the truth. F2p is likely what kept some games profitable after various factors caused them to be unsustainable if still on a subscription model. |
Cyrano Garjuiji
Perkone
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:27:35 -
[932] - Quote
Q: What happens To my Planetary Interaction Once I change from Omega to Alpha ?
Since alpha clones do not have the skills to do planetary interaction at all. (which I think is a good thing and should stay) |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1106
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:44:06 -
[933] - Quote
I like it. Ship it.
Not today spaghetti.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
4414
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Posted - 2016.09.01 16:48:46 -
[934] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
This is not 'F2P', this is an update to the current trial system to encourage more subscriptions and also retain current subscriptions.
No one seems to agree with you:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/31/12729104/eve-online-free-to-play
http://kotaku.com/eve-online-goes-free-to-play-in-november-1785996720
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/eve-online-going-free-to-play/1100-6443175/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3113682/software/eve-onlines-going-free-to-play-after-13-subscription-only-years-of-epic-space-battles.html
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/games/eve-online/43381/eve-online-will-introduce-a-free-to-play-option
The dev blog and associated video have a lot of the word free in them as well. It's free to play, alright, it's just a super ****** version of it. That's going to make it fail to attract the people it should have attracted, and fail to retain people no change would have retained. What they've suggested is the cautious worst-of-all-possible-worlds first step into the F2P market that is in essence nothing short of outright pay to win.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
638
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Posted - 2016.09.01 16:59:13 -
[935] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ms Michigan wrote:
I would love to see Alpha permadeath or limited to 10 reclones before they have to buy an Omega for at least one cycle to reset the counter back to 10. Make them like slaves in lore to our Omega. haha
Some very interesting points raised there, but permadeath sounds like fun; kinda like civilians that couldn't afford a proper clone and got a flawed, degenerating one from Quark's ;-)
Making that the F2P part would probably backfire, especially if you could only be podded a limited number of times.
Having a "Civilian" license however, that might be interesting. A one-time payment, perhaps, that allows for a "Civilian" account, allowing use of all non-T2 subcap ships (and all mods). You start with a maxed-out Alpha clone and can train normally from there, but if you get podded, you lose all skills down to a maxed-out Alpha clone. You're still a "Civilian" account so you can keep training up again, but pod loss is very detrimental. Of course, since they're technically not Capsuleers, they wouldn't be able to use Extractors or Injectors, either, to prevent abuse in that way.
Of course, it would be a big issue for professions that don't really need to put themselves at risk. P4 chains in highsec, research / manufacturing alts, and similar, all have very little risk if they're not being foolish. Having no restrictions would be a bit problematic in that part.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1712
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:00:08 -
[936] - Quote
You know it's a journalists job to sensationalise article headlines so that people will actually read them right?
What you classify as a 'super ****' version of f2p, I define it as something different and honestly given the initial parameters they've set here, it's literally got 0 parallels with any of the other f2p models out there.
Most of them offer unrestricted gameplay with micro transactions to enhance your experience, whether that be in the form of mundane things such as inventory space or cosmetic like skins and pets. You never really need to pay anything but sure it will be easier if you paid some cash.
This proposition from CCP however is very tranparent that YOU WILL BE LIMITED, you just don't have a time limit on how long you're limited for and you can continue having your character forever if you decide to sub or not. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
5176
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:02:13 -
[937] - Quote
Emilie Chatelet wrote:Dear CCP,
I have a question. I just started playing EVE, with a paid subscription. Will I be given all of those skills for free come November? Or, should I just stop my subscription now, and wait to get them in November?
If you skill up those skills and go no further you can let your sub lapse and keep playing as an Alpha.
If you go beyond those skills and then let your sub lapse, then any skills not on the Alpha list are "blocked"--i.e. you do not get the benefit of them. So if for example you trained up to a battlecruiser, once you went Alpha you would not get the benefit of that skill and would not be able to fly a battlecruiser.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
4414
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:06:37 -
[938] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:You know it's a journalists job to sensationalise article headlines so that people will actually read them right?
What you classify as a 'super ****' version of f2p, I define it as something different and honestly given the initial parameters they've set here, it's literally got 0 parallels with any of the other f2p models out there.
Most of them offer unrestricted gameplay with micro transactions to enhance your experience, whether that be in the form of mundane things such as inventory space or cosmetic like skins and pets. You never really need to pay anything but sure it will be easier if you paid some cash.
This proposition from CCP however is very tranparent that YOU WILL BE LIMITED, you just don't have a time limit on how long you're limited for and you can continue having your character forever if you decide to sub or not.
You know all of those new players that you're hoping will come play the game? They're going to be attracted by the headlines those journalists are writing. The ones that say the game is going free to play. Those wells - and all of their friends - are going to be poisoned the moment they see the incredibly glaring pay to win aspect of Eve. Defending this as "nothing more than a trial" would be fine if CCP had said they were modifying the trial program. They didn't. They said they were making people able to play Eve for free.
Again, this is a super ****** version of f2p, and this kind of cautious step will give them the worst of all possible worlds. IMO, if they're going to do this, they need to do it, and do it right. These half measures will just **** literally everyone off.
-Liang
Ed: I kinda don't want to bring professional qualifications into this, but I have been working in free to play games for quite a few years now. I see no way this turns out well.
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
23
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:09:09 -
[939] - Quote
and this is pretty much what recently pisses me off in gaming press nowadays - these people seems to ceased giving any crap about proper use of terminology - and this is not first game that introduced time limit-less trial accounts that has been called "f2p" by these
also using word "free" in a video blog does not mean EvE turning "f2p" game - because you know, the main thing about trial accesses to a software is that these trials are accessed FOR FREE
[if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"] |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1712
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:10:32 -
[940] - Quote
I agree there, concept is good, way it's been marketed is incredibly bad.
they need to damage control before it gets labelled as a scam
And 100% agree with the above. Gaming journalism is ******* terrible these days, most articles come from people who have never even played the game they are writing about and it's usually click bait with really bad research and no substance. |
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
638
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:10:38 -
[941] - Quote
It's a limited form of F2P, yes. Calling it F2P is the easiest way to get it out to the general masses, as well, with as few miscommunication issues as possible. Calling it "unlimited trial accounts" or "infinite trial accounts" or something similar has the risk of making people think you can create as many limited-time trial accounts as you want. it is an update to the trial account system, and it is F2P in that regard.
As for failing to attract other people, I'm honestly not so sure that this is the ultimate goal of it. I have long believed, and still maintain, that the short trial times just aren't enough time for new players to really get invested into the game, especially considering how different it is from every MMO out there. Having unending trial accounts allows a person to learn at a more leisurely pace, instead of trying to learn everything they can and attempting to socialize and get to know people in two or three weeks. Being asked to pony up $15 while you're still clueless is not an easy sell.
While saying "F2P" will most certainly bring folks in to try it out, even if most don't stick around, those who do decide to stick around will have more time to learn and grow before making the plunge. It's not so very different from being able to make multiple trial accounts while still learning the basics, except now, if a person begins to get invested in their character, they know they won't lose them in two weeks while they're still on the fence about joining.
In fewer words, it takes the pressure off new players from having to join while they're still learning. For many, many people (I would hazard to say most), having to make a pressured decision about whether or not to money on a luxury will almost always result in them not spending the money. This takes that pressure away while increasing exposure. Even if it doesn't increase the number of incoming newbies, I strongly believe that it will increase the conversion rates of those who do come.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
4414
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:11:36 -
[942] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
[if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
4416
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:16:09 -
[943] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:
In fewer words, it takes the pressure off new players from having to join while they're still learning. For many, many people (I would hazard to say most), having to make a pressured decision about whether or not to money on a luxury will almost always result in them not spending the money. This takes that pressure away while increasing exposure. Even if it doesn't increase the number of incoming newbies, I strongly believe that it will increase the conversion rates of those who do come.
I'm not saying CCP shouldn't make a move like this. I'm saying the way they're making it is critically flawed and doomed to failure.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Martin Corwin
Corwin's Corsairs
45
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:17:13 -
[944] - Quote
So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news.  |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1714
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:19:48 -
[945] - Quote
Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news.
Pretty much what is happening yes |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
334
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:21:23 -
[946] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes
I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Lothar Mandrake
Min Wei Corporation
0
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:26:01 -
[947] - Quote
THIS STINKS ON SO MANY LEVELS! BAD MOVE CCP!
Can you imagine Jita? It already lags so bad and now you are letting the..... I'll be nice this time and not finish that sentence.
I just threw out all the jump clone modules in my citadels in preparation for this mess. Hopefully, we can lock all of them up somewhere in 1 system.
Careful CCP, you are starting to act like Lameloft (Gameloft). That company is trash, don't follow in their footsteps. We love our pay to play EVE, please leave it as it has been for over a decade!!! |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
23
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:26:35 -
[948] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
[if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words. -Liang
welp to be honest I haven;'t really bothered with watching the vid itself, but by reading the blog I've actually got a feel of "oh so they've dumped more restriction on trial accounts and released the time limits from it, cool"
but then, excuse me if I'll get over triggered over semantics here, just improper use of "f2p" in this scenario will bring alot of noise over dominant p2w, and also it is not first MMO game that has implememnted trials-without-time-limitations that those press has labeled as "turning f2p"
and then later used in another piece of propaganda on how f2p is the gaming business model of the future, because you can see apparently everyone and their grandma turns to it.......
PS. some definitions:
Trial - a FREE access to a software with functionality or time restrictions enforced
F2P game - game develompent model assuming free access to all game content without paying, with microtransaction shop providing additional minor services
and quess which one alpha clone state fits better..... |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14595
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:30:34 -
[949] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with.
If more people don't materialize, then what?
Sure, it might mean a temporary influx of people given all the news about it it, but so did B-R, and "This is EVE" and other newsworthy events. So I'll ask again, if (imo when, but ok let's go with IF) 'more people' doesn't happen, will this finally be enough to help naive people understand that it's not some barrier keeping people out of EVE it's a whole bunch of other stuff (like being a sandbox game in a world where gamers want and need directing, nonconsensual pvp in a world where people want protection from pvp, etc etc).
Just asking, because the same though occurs to me every time I see this kind of thing. Like how everyone was claiming that Dominion (and later Aegis) were going to be great for small groups, or how people proclaimed how daillies would bring lots of people back etc etc. Year after year we've seen this in discussions about EVE.
How many times do people have to be wrong before they change their thinking? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17856
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:30:58 -
[950] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with.
Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic.
It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is.
Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat
(shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts)
=]|[=
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
6386
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:31:41 -
[951] - Quote
It seems a whole bunch of people don't understand the Gnosis "feature".
If you cannot train racial frigate / destroyer / cruiser / battlecruiser / etc., you cannot pilot a racial, navy, faction / pirate ship that requires those skills. e.g. A Caldari alpha clone cannot pilot any Gallente ships.
HOWEVER the Gnosis has no ship or battlecruiser requirement of any kind! It only requires Spaceship Command 1, which alpha clones can train (like all clones, they probably start with it already trained).
CCP may have overlooked this hull IF SKILLS ARE THE ONLY LIMITING FACTOR, which would be the obvious and simplest way to implement alpha clones. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14595
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:34:23 -
[952] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with. Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic. It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is. Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat (shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts)
Well said. I ain't leaving.
Bob Marley voice
GÇ£The people who were trying to make this world imaginary spaceship universe worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?GÇ¥
/Bob Marley voice
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Lothar Mandrake
Min Wei Corporation
0
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:34:54 -
[953] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with. Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic. It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is. Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat (shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts)
This is bad! You can't reverse this decision. Pandora's box on steroids.
PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW TRAINING ON ANY SKILL PAST LEVEL 1 AT LEAST!!!! That will limit the damage these "free players" can do. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
5177
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:44:39 -
[954] - Quote
Lothar Mandrake wrote:THIS STINKS ON SO MANY LEVELS! BAD MOVE CCP!
Can you imagine Jita? It already lags so bad and now you are letting the..... I'll be nice this time and not finish that sentence.
I just threw out all the jump clone modules in my citadels in preparation for this mess. Hopefully, we can lock all of them up somewhere in 1 system.
Careful CCP, you are starting to act like Lameloft (Gameloft). That company is trash, don't follow in their footsteps. We love our pay to play EVE, please leave it as it has been for over a decade!!!
PLEX prices are going to CRASH! I pay for multiple accounts for my family members, now I don't have to. Good job CCP, you will lose SO much money in gameplay purchases.
Oh for God's sake....
Jita is not nearly as bad as it was when there were 2x as many people logging on during peak hours. I have not been locked out of Jita due to people in system in ages. I have not had my Jita alt moved to Perimeter due to number of people already in system in ages.
And yes you can let your subs expire....and lose access to all your Omega skills (assuming you still play the game).
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
5177
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:47:59 -
[955] - Quote
Lothar Mandrake wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with. Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic. It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is. Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat (shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts) This is bad! You can't reverse this decision. Pandora's box on steroids. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW TRAINING ON ANY SKILL PAST LEVEL 1 AT LEAST!!!! That will limit the damage these "free players" can do.
Sure you can.
And read the DevBlog, Alpha clones will have a limited set of skills. None of which they can train to lvl 5, some to lvl 3.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Darkblad
1076
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:52:18 -
[956] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:CCP may have overlooked this hull Probably not
NPE-ISD-Übersetzt!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17858
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:52:42 -
[957] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lothar Mandrake wrote:
+Snip+
This is bad! You can't reverse this decision. Pandora's box on steroids.
PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW TRAINING ON ANY SKILL PAST LEVEL 1 AT LEAST!!!! That will limit the damage these "free players" can do.
Sure you can. And read the DevBlog, Alpha clones will have a limited set of skills. None of which they can train to lvl 5, some to lvl 3.
I'm pretty sure he's being irreverent, it's hard to tell because it's not funny but that's what I got from it.
=]|[=
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Estuary Algaert
Petulant Luddite GmbH
2
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:52:45 -
[958] - Quote
Not like my opinion counts for much... but.
All-n-all I like this, though as a representative of a hi-sec "ganking" corporation even my darkened heart can see that allowing these Alphas totally off the leash is a bad idea regardless of log on limitations. Safety settings for Alpha needs to be limited to yellow or green.
Would love to see a middle ground account option that lets you pay a smaller fee each month and keep ALL your skills but you can no longer passively train them.
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Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
143
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Posted - 2016.09.01 17:59:05 -
[959] - Quote
While i like this idea i have a few concerns regarding certain gameplay styles this will affect.
1. Free hi-sec ganking alts, yep code can now field a ton of ganking catas and then just make a new account so they are not red and free from being counter ganked.
2. Venture fleets. now i from what i'm looking at its possible to have ventures with t2 mining lasers and mining upgrades. This to me seems VERY powerful. While not the best a Venture is still a mining beast and a disposable one at that. having a fleet of these will depressed the ore market a lot. (and yes i?m thinking about it :P) on the other hand it will reduce the cost of ships that have seen there price skyrocket for some reason. I personally think they should be limited to T1 mining lasers and upgrades.
3. Leadership. Why is this even in the list as by the time this comes out it will be of no use to Alpha clones anyways as they cannot fly a boosting ship.
4. While i cannot see any listed skills for PI i would like it confirmed that they will not be able to use PI skills. Also what will happen to a OMEGAS planet when they downgrade to ALPHA? |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2016.09.01 18:04:40 -
[960] - Quote
Lothar Mandrake wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with. Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic. It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is. Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat (shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts) This is bad! You can't reverse this decision. Pandora's box on steroids. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW TRAINING ON ANY SKILL PAST LEVEL 1 AT LEAST!!!! That will limit the damage these "free players" can do.
I'm beginning to see the issue with unlimited alts. |
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