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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
13082
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Posted - 2016.08.30 15:23:18 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings capsuleers!
Today, we are happy to announce a new change thatGÇÖs coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client.
In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a characterGÇÖs race.
A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Tweety Bird
Tackled In Belt xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
167
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:12:22 -
[2] - Quote
Welcome back poors! |
ArmyOfMe
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
603
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:15:30 -
[3] - Quote
First page \o/
Great news, and i hope it will bring in a lot more new players, something this game needs.
ArmyOfMe wrote:
1) If you get bumped then that webber wont do anything.
baltec1 wrote:
We use the exact same tactic for titans and they enter warp instantly.
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Thomas Molijnr
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
6
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:16:20 -
[4] - Quote
No stop this madmess |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:16:35 -
[5] - Quote
So ftp is here? I'm so glad I paid my subs all this time. |
Vic Vorlon
Aideron Robotics
61
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:17:33 -
[6] - Quote
I predict this will cause barely a ruffled feather, with perhaps one or two minor questions.
Or, y'know, a threadnought that blocks out the sun.
I like the idea, let's try it and see what happens! |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
533
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:17:42 -
[7] - Quote
I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP?
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2450
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:19:25 -
[8] - Quote
Regarding this question in the Q&A:
Quote: Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14530
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:21:57 -
[9] - Quote
Alpha clones must NOT be able to light any form of cyno. If not, every single low and null system will have a cloaky alpha clone sitting in it.
I am not normally against cloaky campers (i advocate just dealing with them if they decloak), but FREE cloaky campers? Hell no, every cloaky camper that exists represents a sub or plex and the opportunity costs associated with that. FREE cloakys destroy that.
I know what CCP is trying to achieve. What they will actually achieve is just a bunch of new Tech1 fitted Navy Vexors (don't even need 5 mil SP for that) for veterans. Even if they try the same thing they do with trial accounts (can't be used with paid accounts), there are ways around that.
Think long and hard on this one CCP, you actually can mess up a lot if you don't do this one right. |
Zifrian
Distortion. Amplified.
1760
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:23:30 -
[10] - Quote
This is fantastic, nice work! The ftp model is a thing of mmos now and I glad to see you found a great way to implement it and keep sub services. We need more blood into the game and I think this is a big chance to make that happen. Well done.
Concerns:
Industry and trading - It looks like you should be able to limit this with skills so it's not a big issue from what I can see. You need people to be able to do it but it can't be just a way for alt industry farms of multiple traders.
Ganking: you gotta nip this in the bud now. I say lock them into green agression. You simply can't attack someone without them aggressions you first.
Otherwise, again, very good change.
GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Industry guy, third-party developer, jack-of-all-trades - master of none
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2450
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:23:37 -
[11] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Alpha clones must NOT be able to light any form of cyno. If not, every single low and null system will have a cloaky alpha clone sitting in it.
I am not normally against cloaky campers (i advocate just dealing with them if they decloak), but FREE cloaky campers? Hell no, every cloaky camper that exists represents a sub or plex and the opportunity costs associated with that. FREE cloakys destroy that.
I know what CCP is trying to achieve. What they will actually achieve is just a bunch of new Tech1 fitted Navy Vexors (don't even need 5 mil SP for that) for veterans. Even if they try the same thing they do with trial accounts (can't be used with paid accounts), there are ways around that.
Think long and hard on this one CCP, you actually can mess up a lot if you don't do this one right. Read the post; Cynosural Field Theory is not on the list of skills allowed to be trained by alpha clones and is in fact listed specifically as a barred skill.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
482
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:23:58 -
[12] - Quote
So does this mean Free Trial links/referrals are going away? |
Zifrian
Distortion. Amplified.
1760
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:24:17 -
[13] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Alpha clones must NOT be able to light any form of cyno. If not, every single low and null system will have a cloaky alpha clone sitting in it.
I am not normally against cloaky campers (i advocate just dealing with them if they decloak), but FREE cloaky campers? Hell no, every cloaky camper that exists represents a sub or plex and the opportunity costs associated with that. FREE cloakys destroy that.
I know what CCP is trying to achieve. What they will actually achieve is just a bunch of new Tech1 fitted Navy Vexors (don't even need 5 mil SP for that) for veterans. Even if they try the same thing they do with trial accounts (can't be used with paid accounts), there are ways around that.
Think long and hard on this one CCP, you actually can mess up a lot if you don't do this one right. The skills list already limits this - they can't train them or use them if they go alpha from omega.
GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Industry guy, third-party developer, jack-of-all-trades - master of none
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
339
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:24:32 -
[14] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Alpha clones must NOT be able to light any form of cyno. If not, every single low and null system will have a cloaky alpha clone sitting in it.
I am not normally against cloaky campers (i advocate just dealing with them if they decloak), but FREE cloaky campers? Hell no, every cloaky camper that exists represents a sub or plex and the opportunity costs associated with that. FREE cloakys destroy that.
I know what CCP is trying to achieve. What they will actually achieve is just a bunch of new Tech1 fitted Navy Vexors (don't even need 5 mil SP for that) for veterans. Even if they try the same thing they do with trial accounts (can't be used with paid accounts), there are ways around that.
Think long and hard on this one CCP, you actually can mess up a lot if you don't do this one right.
They can not train Cyno skills or cloaking. Much less use the modules.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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BuntCakez
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
30
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:24:39 -
[15] - Quote
I actually think that EVE is probably the only MMO that can successfully pull off the F2P model. With sufficient limits on the Alpha clones, they will not be able to disturb the current state of the game in an undesirable fashion :) |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1257
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:25:44 -
[16] - Quote
let's all get mad about nothing |
ArmyOfMe
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
604
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:26:31 -
[17] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Alpha clones must NOT be able to light any form of cyno. If not, every single low and null system will have a cloaky alpha clone sitting in it.
I am not normally against cloaky campers (i advocate just dealing with them if they decloak), but FREE cloaky campers? Hell no, every cloaky camper that exists represents a sub or plex and the opportunity costs associated with that. FREE cloakys destroy that.
I know what CCP is trying to achieve. What they will actually achieve is just a bunch of new Tech1 fitted Navy Vexors (don't even need 5 mil SP for that) for veterans. Even if they try the same thing they do with trial accounts (can't be used with paid accounts), there are ways around that.
Think long and hard on this one CCP, you actually can mess up a lot if you don't do this one right. As far as i could tell they wont be able to train up cloaking or cyno, so that shouldnt be a problem at all. Also this will hopefully massivly improve the PCU as more ppl can try this game, and for much longer before desiding if its worth subbing.
Hoping to see a bunch of new corps like Brave newbies (as it once was, after this change)
(oh, and yeah ill continue to stay subbed as i have for the last 12+ years anyways, but i know a lot of my friends will now come try this game)
ArmyOfMe wrote:
1) If you get bumped then that webber wont do anything.
baltec1 wrote:
We use the exact same tactic for titans and they enter warp instantly.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26728
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:27:05 -
[18] - Quote
Initial thoughts, no thanks.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1521
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:27:10 -
[19] - Quote
Noobs! Noobs everywhere!
I am ok with this.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14533
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:27:25 -
[20] - Quote
Querns wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Alpha clones must NOT be able to light any form of cyno. If not, every single low and null system will have a cloaky alpha clone sitting in it.
I am not normally against cloaky campers (i advocate just dealing with them if they decloak), but FREE cloaky campers? Hell no, every cloaky camper that exists represents a sub or plex and the opportunity costs associated with that. FREE cloakys destroy that.
I know what CCP is trying to achieve. What they will actually achieve is just a bunch of new Tech1 fitted Navy Vexors (don't even need 5 mil SP for that) for veterans. Even if they try the same thing they do with trial accounts (can't be used with paid accounts), there are ways around that.
Think long and hard on this one CCP, you actually can mess up a lot if you don't do this one right. Read the post; Cynosural Field Theory is not on the list of skills allowed to be trained by alpha clones and is in fact listed specifically as a barred skill.
I see that now. Big relief. |
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Titus Tallang
EVE University Ivy League
179
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:27:42 -
[21] - Quote
Multiple logins from Omega and Alpha accounts at the same time must be prohibited, and circumventing this must be a bannable offense.
Otherwise I (and I'm sure many others) will just start multiboxing 10 griffins (at a total cost of 2 million isk, so I don't even have to pay any real attention to those clients) in addition to my main in every single fight, and I'm not sure if that's really the gameplay you are looking for. Don't turn this into "who can micromanage the most accounts at the same time", please.
PS: Apart from that, I'm cautiously optimistic. Free multiboxing is my primary issue.
Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6137
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:27:52 -
[22] - Quote
Can people actually read the devblog and watch the video before complaining?
While the CSM only saw this on Monday, Most had been hammered out already.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
438
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:28:26 -
[23] - Quote
This is awesome. :D |
AoTxLoGiX
Rolled Out Shadow Cartel
1
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:28:59 -
[24] - Quote
Are there restrictions on Standings? Can a Alpha clone for instance run lvl 5's if it had the standing as a Subbed account but then become unsubbed or will there be a restriction on this?
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Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
482
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:29:10 -
[25] - Quote
Querns wrote:Regarding this question in the Q&A: Quote: Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.
They prohibit multiple Free Trial accounts from logging in on the same computer so I'm sure there's some feasibility in prohibiting Alpha characters/accounts from doing so. |
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CCP Quant
C C P C C P Alliance
129
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:29:34 -
[26] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:So does this mean Free Trial links/referrals are going away?
Nope, there will be a suitable replacement, stay tuned |
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1693
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:30:26 -
[27] - Quote
This is absolutely massive, and I think it's a good thing..
Perhaps newly created characters should come with all the the allowable skills pre-installed into their character, even if they're not trained?
Now for a few concerns:
Will account status be available via API?
Alts for absolutely no expenditure is going to play havoc with the already fraught situation of who-to-trust as it will be possible to burn through them over and over. Yes, it's not exactly expensive now, but free is different.
Same for ganking. Small hybrid turret IV + destroyer IV is going to make throwaway alts readily accessible for free. I love the idea of forcing safety to green in highsec. That sounds like a very elegant solution. |
h4kun4
Heeresversuchsanstalt The Bastion
65
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:30:58 -
[28] - Quote
so the 72hrs skilling (of future omega skills) after subscription end will also be gone yes? |
Crasniya
Aliastra Gallente Federation
576
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:31:08 -
[29] - Quote
I'm mostly just hear to eat popcorn and watch. Nice job on involving the CSM early on and stuff... oh wait...
Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - [email protected]
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2700
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:31:08 -
[30] - Quote
Quote: Q: What about farming on free alts using systems like industry?
A: WeGÇÖve deliberately tried to limit this behavior using the skills allowed in the Alpha list. Without skills to increase things like material efficiency it should be very hard to scale alt farms in a way that hurts the ecosystem. Didn't you remove skills for improving ME because it was an unfair barrier? Do you even still know your game?
Quote:Q: WonGÇÖt lag be a huge problem?
A: We are confident that we can handle a significant increase in activity, so hopefully not. We are prepared to make design changes if this does become a problem, and as always we will continue investing in our hardware and our code base. The last big battle in Nalvula proves that as a blatant lie. The new hardware is not capable of accommodating any more players, it's in fact only able to accommodate fewer players.
So, CCP doesn't know their game, CCP can't stop lying ... and now they want more players in the game based on that? Looking forward to it.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Reinhardt Kreiss
26
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:31:48 -
[31] - Quote
F2P... it's here. An MMO switching to F2P indicates its decline and departure from a long term commitment to a short term cash grab. It seems Seagul isn't the one to save EVE, it's the one who is dunking EVE into terribleness going far beyond any shittery any previous DEV ever managed. A Trojan horse.
I HAD decided to come back in full and to become, once again, a content creator but this is clear proof that any sort of long term investment just isn't worth it, CCP simply can't be trusted to do the right thing for the game and instead focuses on bad solutions to problems they themselves created in the first place.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14533
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:32:18 -
[32] - Quote
Titus Tallang wrote:Multiple logins from Omega and Alpha accounts at the same time must be prohibited, and circumventing this must be a bannable offense.
Otherwise I (and I'm sure many others) will just start multiboxing 10 griffins (at a total cost of 2 million isk, so I don't even have to pay any real attention to those clients) in addition to my main in every single fight, and I'm not sure if that's really the gameplay you are looking for. Don't turn this into "who can micromanage the most accounts at the same time", please.
PS: Apart from that, I'm cautiously optimistic. Free multiboxing is my primary issue.
Griffin are hard to multibox without automation. TRISTANS (and other drone ships, hell, any ship that can assign drones) are not.
I agree, multiple log ins across clone state must be prohibited. nothing wrong with multi boxing, but if we can multibox with alphas I WILL be putting a whole bunch of new drone ships in null sec anoms. My Inflationary pressure will blot out the Sun over CCP Quant's office window.
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JonnyPew
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
48
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:32:30 -
[33] - Quote
Here we go...
http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
611
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:32:35 -
[34] - Quote
Will Alpha industrialists be limited in what they can build? It's a bit meaningless to say they can't research ME or PE when you can buy fully-researched BPO's, and considering the sheer number of characters free accounts could generate, the lack of production lines is largely irrelevant.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Kines Pavelovna
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
5
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:32:45 -
[35] - Quote
So I can't use my market alt to post orders? Or my scan alt to scan? Unless I PLEX each of them? |
JTK Fotheringham
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
99
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:32:51 -
[36] - Quote
Begun the clone war has. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2940
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:32:59 -
[37] - Quote
Didn't see that coming.
T3Ds, cloaking, and cyno are not usable on alpha clones so I don't really see a problem with the concept. More people flying T1 frigs, destroyers and cruisers is good for the game.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Kahless Monstrosity
Doughboys Escalating Entropy
5
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:34:06 -
[38] - Quote
What about FW LP farming? I see people creating tons of free characters to farm FW LP? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14533
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:35:23 -
[39] - Quote
Kahless Monstrosity wrote:What about FW LP farming? I see people creating tons of free characters to farm FW LP?
True, I've done lvl 4 FW missions in Caracals with minimal tech2 fittings, won't be hard to use tech1..
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Skir Skor
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
33
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:36:29 -
[40] - Quote
Welcome to Skir's Pitchfork Emporium
Basic ---E Lefty ¦Ä--- Fancy ---{ Eurostyle ---Gé¼ Discount ---F
Bulk orders available upon request. |
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Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
482
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:37:02 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Quant wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:So does this mean Free Trial links/referrals are going away? Nope, there will be a suitable replacement, stay tuned
My referral links in my YouTube vids thank you. |
JTK Fotheringham
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
100
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:37:11 -
[42] - Quote
Kines Pavelovna wrote:So I can't use my market alt to post orders? Or my scan alt to scan? Unless I PLEX each of them?
Can - but poorly compared to an omega.
#Fixedthatforyou
Gallente Broker Relations 2 Trade
Gallente Marketing 2 Trade
Gallente Trade 3 Trade
Gallente Astrometric Acquisition 2 Scanning
Gallente Astrometric Rangefinding 2 Scanning
Gallente Astrometrics 3 Scanning
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Titus Tallang
EVE University Ivy League
179
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:37:17 -
[43] - Quote
Oh, and we need to be able to see account status on the XML API (and CREST, I guess).
Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
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Hulk Miner
White Horse Incorporated
49
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:37:42 -
[44] - Quote
It really does not matter what we say for feedback, this is going to be implemented as per your specifications. Nothing will change, same old. |
Stefan Cel Mare
Knowledge is Money - Money is Power
0
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:37:58 -
[45] - Quote
what is going to hepen with my 8M SP indy toons that are kept on subscribed accounts but are no longer training a thing ? will i be able to build/research with those ? |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
327
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:38:13 -
[46] - Quote
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:F2P... it's here. An MMO switching to F2P indicates its decline and departure from a long term commitment to a short term cash grab. It seems Seagul isn't the one to save EVE, it's the one who is dunking EVE into terribleness going far beyond any shittery any previous DEV ever managed. A Trojan horse.
I HAD decided to come back in full and to become, once again, a content creator but this is clear proof that any sort of long term investment just isn't worth it, CCP simply can't be trusted to do the right thing for the game and instead focuses on bad solutions to problems they themselves created in the first place.
Post on your main if you want people to care what you think.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
23
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:38:13 -
[47] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP?
Both problems are fixed by getting out of high sec
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Brown Pathfinder
Its a good day to die
11
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:38:16 -
[48] - Quote
This is a huge change to eve wich might help get new players in wich is a good thing! My personal monkey with this is as a wormhole explorer player that in periods live in the deepest space that you want to remove my ability to have cloak and pirate and t2 ships, so if i would be inactive for a while and come back in my stratios or anathema or legion and I would be in wh-space I would have to self destruct since i cant cloak while in a cov op ship |
DaOpa
Static Corp
56
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:38:56 -
[49] - Quote
Suggestion(s):
Remove Restriction of Skills between Alpha / Omega states, have no difference here. If you train a skill you have it forever, with out restrictions.
Add ways to gain small SP on Actions done during gameplay for both Alpha / Omega. High total SP of character will result in less SP gains, there needs to be diminished returns.
Actions such as mining, killing npcs/players, producing items, mission rewards, successfully mini game(s)/hacking wins ... etc
Small SP gains on Action incentive will help retain new players in my op, their is a feeling of progression that is not tied into a set SP timescale. What you do makes a difference...
LP Stores DB - WH List / Systems - Live Streamer
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
611
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:39:11 -
[50] - Quote
Will PI set-ups be disabled while on Alpha clones? You can set up two characters with a decent PI set-up in a 30-day paid-for period, so unless planetary colonies are disabled during that time, it's going to be rather overpowered to pay once for a free source of ISK thereafter.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Opec
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2016.08.31 14:39:15 -
[51] - Quote
I currently run a main account which is PVP centric, as well as a second paid account which has an alt character that mainly flies T1 ships, for purposes of scouting, etc. As of right now, I cannot pilot a character on a fully paid account while also piloting a character on a trial account. For this reason, my alt that flies T1 frigates has to be subbed to the game.
However, when this change rolls around, my alt that flies T1 frigates will be able to serve the same purpose as it does now while unsubscribed later. I am worried that even though my alt will be able to do the same functions that it is currently doing on a paid subscription on an Alpha clone, CCP will not allow me to pilot an Omega character and an Alpha character side by side. However, there is really no point to me upgrading the character to an Omega clone if all it is going to be doing is piloting T1 ships on my alt.
So, my question is, will you allow us to fly 1 Omega clone account and 1 Alpha clone account side by side? If not, this will negate a lot of accounts whose alts fly only T1 ships for scouting purposes, re-seboing etc. If this change happens, I will no longer be paying for my T1 frigate character personally, so I do hope you will allow us Omega clone accounts to fly a 2nd Alpha account side to side on the same computer. |
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
421
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:40:21 -
[52] - Quote
Quote: Q: What about farming on free alts using systems like industry?
A: WeGÇÖve deliberately tried to limit this behavior using the skills allowed in the Alpha list. Without skills to increase things like material efficiency it should be very hard to scale alt farms in a way that hurts the ecosystem. This is something we need your help on though so if you see the potential for abuse please let us know. That's a bit of an odd statement as the character skills that affected material efficiency at manufacturing time all went away in Crius; Production Efficiency became Advanced Industry and a time bonus, and all the other skills are either time bonuses or straight prerequisites.
Laboratory Operation isn't on the list so they won't be mass researching, if that's what you meant, but Mass Production is, giving 4 manufacturing slots at the capped level 3. This can be used to manufacture a large amount of low-skill-prerequisite items; they can't do T2 but they can do most, if not all, of the T1 range given pre-researched blueprints. OK, it's only 4 slots, but if they're free and unlimited it scales up.
--
|
JTK Fotheringham
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
100
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:40:28 -
[53] - Quote
Serious question - how will "Alpha" accounts be treated in purges? Say an alpha account never subscribes, or only subs once - never to generate cash again. Will it be purged at some point in the future? |
FatBelwas
The Vomit Comets Villore Accords
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:40:45 -
[54] - Quote
Will alpha clones be able to actively participate in FW? What is there to stop a bunch of farming alpha clones in catalysts doing plexes 24/7 whilst the fighting men of the militias have to see the systems shuffled by the sheer amount of farmers? |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:41:16 -
[55] - Quote
Fantastic idea to get new people more engaged with no time limitations, maybe the dumb asses should read that they are limited to 5 million skill points and locked to there racial t1 frigates / destroyers / cruisers as long as they stay in alpha state.
More time to experience eve without them thinking they have 14 days to plex or quit. Big thumbs up on this CCP !!!! |
Valterra Craven
595
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:41:21 -
[56] - Quote
In alpha states I don't think you should be able to set up sell orders at all.
The thing about trading is that you don't have to have all of them logged in at one time like mining to make a big difference on the market.
Log in, set up free orders log out
login 2 acct set up free orders log out
I don't know that my solution is a good fix, but trading really needs to be thought out for alphas. |
Castimirr
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:41:39 -
[57] - Quote
DaOpa wrote: Suggestion(s):
Remove Restriction of Skills between Alpha / Omega states, have no difference here. If you train a skill you have it forever, with out restrictions.
Add ways to gain small SP on Actions done during gameplay for both Alpha / Omega. High total SP of character will result in less SP gains, there needs to be diminished returns.
Actions such as mining, killing npcs/players, producing items, mission rewards, successfully mini game(s)/hacking wins ... etc
Small SP gains on Action incentive will help retain new players in my op, their is a feeling of progression that is not tied into a set SP timescale. What you do makes a difference...
Careful. If you keep posting ideas this out of touch with the game CCP will try to hire you.
Amarr Victor!
Imperial Dreams [CVA] - Welcome to Providence - KOS Checker
|
Kines Pavelovna
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:41:54 -
[58] - Quote
JTK Fotheringham wrote:Kines Pavelovna wrote:So I can't use my market alt to post orders? Or my scan alt to scan? Unless I PLEX each of them? Can - but poorly compared to an omega. #Fixedthatforyou Gallente Broker Relations 2 Trade Gallente Marketing 2 Trade Gallente Trade 3 Trade Gallente Astrometric Acquisition 2 Scanning Gallente Astrometric Rangefinding 2 Scanning Gallente Astrometrics 3 Scanning
IKR - so basically you have to farm SP off of manufacturing/utility alts to keep the PLEX costs manageable? |
nerooon
Scorps and Harvey
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:41:57 -
[59] - Quote
So , your account runs out and you can still use all your skills until logout...timed right that gives you upto 24hrs free play between Dt's ? that about right? |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1093
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:42:22 -
[60] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Will Alpha industrialists be limited in what they can build? It's a bit meaningless to say they can't research ME or PE when you can buy fully-researched BPO's, and considering the sheer number of characters free accounts could generate, the lack of production lines is largely irrelevant.
I have to agree with this. I mostly run T1 builds on my industrial characters anyway, and not having to plex the accounts means I could conceivably add say 100 accounts(or more)? That would be 600 assembly lines all churning out whatever I can cram into them (and by the looks of it, that's pretty much any T1 ship, ammo, or module). Without the cost of PLEX to consider, I can undercut my competition and flood the market, further depressing prices on these goods.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
|
Jen Galt
Nophux Togive
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:43:15 -
[61] - Quote
So you mean to tell me I no longer have to PAY for a second account to have a scouting alt? I'm all about saving money! Thanks! |
Carbon Alabel
The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance
14
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:43:27 -
[62] - Quote
Two questions: Do you intend to prevent Alpha clones from flying in navy faction frigates/cruisers and will Alpha clones be allowed to post on the forums? |
I'm Harmless
Patriarch Of Destruction Triumvirate.
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:43:28 -
[63] - Quote
HAHAHAHAA
The amount of desperation by CCP is comical.
here is how you get people to resub and play
"Dear vets, jump fatigue and SP trading were terrible mistakes, we are sorry, please resub your 15 accounts and we'll make it all go away.
Until then, thanks but no thanks.
ps.
"You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old. You can post a new one in 88 seconds."
what the hell is this garbage? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2264
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:44:15 -
[64] - Quote
So you're telling me I can fly a catalyst...
vOv Okay then.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Stefan Cel Mare
Knowledge is Money - Money is Power
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:44:27 -
[65] - Quote
Ydnari wrote:Quote: Q: What about farming on free alts using systems like industry?
A: WeGÇÖve deliberately tried to limit this behavior using the skills allowed in the Alpha list. Without skills to increase things like material efficiency it should be very hard to scale alt farms in a way that hurts the ecosystem. This is something we need your help on though so if you see the potential for abuse please let us know. That's a bit of an odd statement as the character skills that affected material efficiency at manufacturing time all went away in Crius; Production Efficiency became Advanced Industry and a time bonus, and all the other skills are either time bonuses or straight prerequisites. Laboratory Operation isn't on the list so they won't be mass researching, if that's what you meant, but Mass Production is, giving 4 manufacturing slots at the capped level 3. This can be used to manufacture a large amount of low-skill-prerequisite items; they can't do T2 but they can do most, if not all, of the T1 range given pre-researched blueprints. OK, it's only 4 slots, but if they're free and unlimited it scales up.
prime example of how aware are devs of the game they develop |
virm pasuul
The Congregation No Handlebars.
402
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:44:33 -
[66] - Quote
The tears on this one, especially after ending off grid boosting are going to be legendary! This is going to be in the history books :)
|
VonDerTann
Massive Dynamic inc. Care Factor
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:45:05 -
[67] - Quote
I just concerned about one thing: how about mulitple charactors under same account, if you are paid player, your main charactor is omega, the other two will regard as omega too or as alpha |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium
469
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:45:45 -
[68] - Quote
Going to be some abuse here. It's a swell idea overall, but if I can roll 3 gallente characters train catalyst / vexor skills at no cost to myself - why not? You may want to consider limiting their safety switch to Yellow - so they can still engage in some skull drudgery but not have 100 alphas dunk a freighter in Niarja.
May want to limit LP rewards? Faction warfare could be an issue. Stabs + any frigate and you can make money on this account pretty easily.
Good call on the 'if subscription isn't active will go to alpha clone state,' Or I'd only be paying for 1 account from here on out. |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1093
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:45:48 -
[69] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Will PI set-ups be disabled while on Alpha clones? You can set up two characters with a decent PI set-up in a 30-day paid-for period, so unless planetary colonies are disabled during that time, it's going to be rather overpowered to pay once for a free source of ISK thereafter.
I never thought about that. Pay for an account for 90 -sih days to train all three characters, and then make free money forever.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Always Shi
t Posting
46
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:46:06 -
[70] - Quote
Carbon Alabel wrote:will Alpha clones be allowed to post on the forums?
Asking the important questions! |
|
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1093
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:46:49 -
[71] - Quote
VonDerTann wrote:I just concerned about one thing: how about mulitple charactors under same account, if you are paid player, your main charactor is omega, the other two will regard as omega too or as alpha
Per the news item, all characters on an account share the clone status. So the account is either Alpha or Omega, not the characters
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
JTK Fotheringham
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
101
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:47:28 -
[72] - Quote
VonDerTann wrote:I just concerned about one thing: how about mulitple charactors under same account, if you are paid player, your main charactor is omega, the other two will regard as omega too or as alpha
All three character slots on a paid account will be Omega. All three on an un-apid account will be alpha. Its in the blog post linked. |
SFX Bladerunner
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
14
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:47:47 -
[73] - Quote
So... basically CODE, and any form of destroyer empire ganking, is getting a massive boost?
- start 10 accounts - train (alpa cloned) gank destroyers on all of them - if multiboxing alphas = allowed..... SOLO GANK SQUAD AHOYYY - if multiboxing alphas != allowed.... OH WELL, I can just use 1, and when sec status drops too much trash it while training a new one, rinse and repeat - only pay for my disposable gank ship, zero fucks given
GJ CCP, you done ****** up. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium
473
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:48:38 -
[74] - Quote
SFX Bladerunner wrote:So... basically CODE, and any form of destroyer empire ganking, is getting a massive boost?
- start 10 accounts - train (alpa cloned) gank destroyers on all of them - if multiboxing alphas = allowed..... SOLO GANK SQUAD AHOYYY - if multiboxing alphas != allowed.... OH WELL, I can just use 1, and when sec status drops too much trash it while training a new one, rinse and repeat - only pay for my disposable gank ship, zero fucks given
GJ CCP, you done ****** up.
Chill guy. Why not just suggest they restrict the safety on these accounts to yellow. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1600
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:49:13 -
[75] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:So you're telling me I can fly a catalyst... vOv Okay then.
Yeah, but you can't use T2 or faction guns Good luck with that.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Solecist Project
32748
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:49:16 -
[76] - Quote
Always Shi wrote:Carbon Alabel wrote:will Alpha clones be allowed to post on the forums? Asking the important questions! That's actually pretty significant.
It would mean war.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
|
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
588
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:49:33 -
[77] - Quote
Interesting.
So far, I cannot think of any major objections. I will try to think of ways this can be abused, but barring that I don't see it being a bad thing.
I think it'd be fine for unlimited Mega clone clients to run along with a single Alpha clone client on the same computer, but I have concerns about multiple Alpha clone clients.
First possible "abuse": Train an Alpha clone to 5m SP. Switch it to Omega state, train Cybernetics to 5, plug in +5 implants, and have an SP farm ready to go without having to pay for the initial 5m SP investment.
|
Memphis Baas
1970
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:49:40 -
[78] - Quote
First, this is about trial vs. subscription, so in my opinion if you obfuscate this fact by using completely non-descriptive terms like "alpha" and "omega", you're doing yourselves a dis-service. You're placing a point of confusion between your game and people opening their wallets to pay you for it. I would like to recommend calling it "trial" clones and "subscribed" clones, and inventing some in-character explanation for those terms. Because that's what we're familiar with.
Second, "alpha" and "omega"? "beginning" and "end"? really? You don't envision in-between states, like us paying through our nose to unlock individual features (I want access to the Megathron dammit, I love that ship, but I don't want to pay subscription or unlock anything else)? You don't envision more-than-subscription states, such as paying 2x subscription costs to slow-train at 2x the speed? 3x subscription for 3x speed? You don't envision anything in between alpha and omega, or beyond omega?
Link the subscription model to the clones if you want, it's a fine idea.
But just name it what it is, and let the naming convention allow for shades of grey in between and beyond "subscribed" or "not". |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1094
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:50:03 -
[79] - Quote
This does sort of give new meaning to the phrase "flight of a thousand rifters" though.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Tiberius Mathusia
Kontained Chaos Demonic Wheat Pineapple
17
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:50:23 -
[80] - Quote
I've read over the proposal and the list of skills they can train and believe tissue is a excellent idea to encourage new players by giving them the opportunity to really explore the game while limiting their ability to impact the game.
It's also a good way of training up same base skills on an alternative account before subbing it to train the omega skills. |
|
Solecist Project
32748
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:50:31 -
[81] - Quote
SFX Bladerunner wrote:So... basically CODE, and any form of destroyer empire ganking, is getting a massive boost?
- start 10 accounts - train (alpa cloned) gank destroyers on all of them - if multiboxing alphas = allowed..... SOLO GANK SQUAD AHOYYY - if multiboxing alphas != allowed.... OH WELL, I can just use 1, and when sec status drops too much trash it while training a new one, rinse and repeat - only pay for my disposable gank ship, zero fucks given
GJ CCP, you done ****** up. Because ganking is so omnipresent... yeah, right.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
|
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
506
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:50:53 -
[82] - Quote
This is gonna be interesting since i was kind of considering alts.... Probably still wont bite tho
@lunettelulu7
|
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2942
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:51:30 -
[83] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote:Will PI set-ups be disabled while on Alpha clones? You can set up two characters with a decent PI set-up in a 30-day paid-for period, so unless planetary colonies are disabled during that time, it's going to be rather overpowered to pay once for a free source of ISK thereafter. I never thought about that. Pay for an account for 90 -sih days to train all three characters, and then make free money forever. PI skills are not included in the alpha list in the devblog.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
23
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:52:05 -
[84] - Quote
DaOpa wrote: Suggestion(s):
Remove Restriction of Skills between Alpha / Omega states, have no difference here. If you train a skill you have it forever, with out restrictions.
This will lead to the exact abuse people are worried about: free cyno, free camping, free blops, free t3d, free skiff fleet, free tornado ganker, infinite market / industry slots, etc. |
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
139
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:52:11 -
[85] - Quote
Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill? Since this is supposed to come out at the same time as the boosting changes, an Alpha Clone won't fly any ship that can boost, nor use any skills that require Leadership (like Fighters).
|
Kreza
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:52:37 -
[86] - Quote
The rage this generates will be incredibly entertaining, I can hardly wait |
Darrien
Ouroboros Logistics
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:52:46 -
[87] - Quote
Implants:
Whats happens if an omega drops to alpha with high level implants ? are they going to be disabled ? |
yuma detog
Skyrock
2
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:53:19 -
[88] - Quote
Are there gonna be any restrictions regarding character transfers from/to alpha accounts? |
Kines Pavelovna
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:53:21 -
[89] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:VonDerTann wrote:I just concerned about one thing: how about mulitple charactors under same account, if you are paid player, your main charactor is omega, the other two will regard as omega too or as alpha Per the news item, all characters on an account share the clone status. So the account is either Alpha or Omega, not the characters
Ah OK so the basic behaviour is basically unchanged but other people get to play seal toons in FW for free. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2702
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:53:28 -
[90] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Chill guy. Why not just suggest they restrict the safety on these accounts to yellow. No, that is not possible. If this was true, CCP would have lied again in the very dev blog and dev video telling people they could be part of all sorts of shenanigans -- which you obviously can't if you are restricted to yellow.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
|
JTK Fotheringham
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
101
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:54:35 -
[91] - Quote
Irregessa wrote:Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill? Since this is supposed to come out at the same time as the boosting changes, an Alpha Clone won't fly any ship that can boost, nor use any skills that require Leadership (like Fighters).
Leadership skill looks like it will still be useful in some way for squad command - might even become a pre-req for command a squad.
|
Epigene
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
57
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:56:21 -
[92] - Quote
The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, but we are communicating now specifically so that they can help gather your feedback and bring it to us for the summit in September....
Really - I thought the CSM is designed exactly for the purpose of floating these new concepts before they go live.
So, 2 points:
1. CSM's feedback was not seen as valuable 2. CMS is not trusted not to leak
Just checking.
PS. other than that, I think its a great idea btw.
www.splatus.wordpress.com-á
|
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium
475
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:56:36 -
[93] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Noxisia Arkana wrote:Chill guy. Why not just suggest they restrict the safety on these accounts to yellow. No, that is not possible. If this was true, CCP would have lied again in the very dev blog and dev video telling people they could be part of all sorts of shenanigans -- which you obviously can't if you are restricted to yellow.
Not really, you can do tons of **** still.
1. Lowsec pvp - you just can't kill pods. 2. Null/WH - you get get your jimmies off however you want. 3. Highsec - no ganking :(. But you can still flag suspect (nuetral logi), whatever. I'm sure they'll allow dueling. |
Cheyennes
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
36
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:56:49 -
[94] - Quote
In CCP's latest gimmick, rather than admit failure with Fizzle Sov and Greyscale Disease, their SOLUTION to the diminishing player base is................
LET THEM PLAY FOR FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
World War Bee didn't do it, so yet another death nail in the coffin...........
Get rid of the arrogance, admit your failures, and FIX the game play.
IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME! ! ! |
Nakaori
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:56:56 -
[95] - Quote
Sounds interesting. I like that I may finally be able to keep playing with my friends who want to play casually and not invest in the monthtly fee.
But please restrict it to one alpha account per machine. The eve economy will change anyways under the pressure of many new miners but if people begin exploiting it by using 100s of miners per machine, the mineral prices will suffer from that and so all of eves economy.
We love eve for the economy and the impact an actual loss in the game has. Don't take that away from us paying players and the new update to this is totally fine.
Thanks. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1488
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:57:27 -
[96] - Quote
I don't think you should be allowing any industry or trade skills on alpha clones, if you value the health of the in game economy.
It's just too easy to exploit and once it is adopted by enough players, it will be just too essential not to exploit.
If limited to PvP and PvE, I don't think I will have any serious problems with this proposal, but if you allow me and others like me to produce unlimited industry alts with no practically enforceable limitations on that, then things will get very bad and very quickly. |
kxdan
Out of Focus Odin's Call
10
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:58:04 -
[97] - Quote
Looking forward to myself having one paid account, 500 free accounts assigning drones to me, making solo pvp great again
(dear god do not let alpha and omega accounts be logged in at the same time from the same PC, it'll turn small gang pvp into an absolute s**tshow of who has the most powerful PC's) |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
612
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:58:53 -
[98] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Elenahina wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote:Will PI set-ups be disabled while on Alpha clones? You can set up two characters with a decent PI set-up in a 30-day paid-for period, so unless planetary colonies are disabled during that time, it's going to be rather overpowered to pay once for a free source of ISK thereafter. I never thought about that. Pay for an account for 90 -sih days to train all three characters, and then make free money forever. PI skills are not included in the alpha list in the devblog. While true, one of the issues is that you can (or could) set up planets, then extract most of your PI skills and still use those planets as if you had the full skills. Hopefully that issue is or will be fixed before this free account bit goes live.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
|
Always Shi
t Posting
49
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:59:09 -
[99] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:let's all get mad about nothing
virm pasuul wrote:The tears on this one, especially after ending off grid boosting are going to be legendary! This is going to be in the history books :)
Kreza wrote:The rage this generates will be incredibly entertaining, I can hardly wait
So far I've seen more posts predicting a negative response than actual negative responses. It's almost as if CCP thought this through carefully! |
Gronsak
Meet The Fockers
7
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:59:10 -
[100] - Quote
Finally, ganking in highsec gets overhauled... |
|
Ripard Teg
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
1305
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:59:14 -
[101] - Quote
Three things jump out at me instantly:
1) Unless you come up with ways to stop it, there's going to be a lively market in people who train Alpha clone accounts to their maximum states, then trade or sell those accounts to incoming new players.
2) Unless you severely restrict individual PCs to one Alpha clone account, people are going to start literally dozens of them for the purposes of taking advantage of item #1.
3) Pity any poor idiot in high-sec. This is the biggest buff to high-sec ganking that I've ever seen. There will be literally no reason why every EVE player shouldn't have a basic ganking account, if not lots of them (see #2).
Plus a 4th thing:
4) It'll be interesting to see where the upper SP limit is for Alpha clones. If nothing else, I can see a lively market in "train up Alpha clones to max", subscribe them to Omega for 30 days, cash out, let lapse back to Alpha, repeat.
aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
|
Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
288
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:59:33 -
[102] - Quote
I do like these changes - how will implants change?
And please do no allow more than one alpha account to run at a time.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
|
BuntCakez
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
32
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:59:38 -
[103] - Quote
Epigene wrote:[
Really - I thought the CSM is designed exactly for the purpose of floating these new concepts before they go live.
So, 2 points:
1. CSM's feedback was not seen as valuable 2. CMS is not trusted not to leak
Just checking.
PS. other than that, I think its a great idea btw.
Pretty sure they just arent trusted not to leak. I mean you would straight up assume someone like Xenuria woulda spilled the beans immediately right? |
Drein Aldmeri
The Four Horsemen LLC
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 14:59:59 -
[104] - Quote
I like this idea. It gives players a better opportunity to get sucked into the game and eventually sub than the trial account does. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium
475
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:00:00 -
[105] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:I don't think you should be allowing any industry or trade skills on alpha clones, if you value the health of the in game economy.
It's just too easy to exploit and once it is adopted by enough players, it will be just too essential not to exploit.
If limited to PvP and PvE, I don't think I will have any serious problems with this proposal, but if you allow me and others like me to produce unlimited industry alts with no practically enforceable limitations on that, then things will get very bad and very quickly.
I disagree here. The only reason there is inflation in this game is because CCP adjusts the cost and availability of minerals/ship components. Driving down the price of T1 ships and modules would be healthy for a lot of people.
Used to be able to fit a domi for under 80 mil. The hulls are around 200 mil now NOT because of inflation but because of CCP rebalancing.
Let us stop the 'eve economy is real' pitch. |
Gin Andtonic
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
8
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:00:08 -
[106] - Quote
I'm going to add my voice to the general call for limits on simultaneous logins. Let's just go with a one-alpha max. That can be one alpha one its own, or one alpha with some number of omegas, but never more than one alpha logged in simultaneously. That limits what you can do with them by a lot. A freebie non-cloaky scanner to go with whatever you're doing? A semi-afk mining frigate you put in your other monitor? T1 PvP character to burn rifters in Ama? Great, fine. Ten of either? Bad idea. Not that people wouldn't find a way to circumvent any limit on simultaneous logins anyways, but I think that leaving that door open is going to be the only major risk.
Otherwise, I'm generally in favor. Nice way to introduce folks to the game without forcing them to get hooked in a 14-day window. I'd make sure (and I'm pretty sure this is already the case) that alpha accounts can't contract-spam or make decoy corps and wardec people.
Oh, yeah, what happens if a corp leader reverts to alpha? Does the lower corp management skill kick a bunch of people from the corp? How does it affect the alliance? |
Andre Vauban
Aideron Robotics
449
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:00:46 -
[107] - Quote
I have some MAJOR concerns.
1) Suicide ganking. The biggest obstacle for players is getting enough alpha to take a target down. With this change, it is now within the grasp of a player to launch 20+ alpha clone players in thrashers to gank things.
2) Faction Warfare. It is now possible for a single player to launch a large number of clients to close FW complexes.
3) Scouts. It is now possible for me to put a scout into every system within X jumps of me. Granted you eliminated cloaks, but I can just put them in capsules and I can scale to multiple characters per system so all my eyes won't get podded at the same time. Nobody wants to go probe down a bunch of worthless capsules in space in every system.
I would suggest that all the problems can be fixed by only allowing a single alpha client to log into Eve from a single computer. Most people won't have enough computers (or able to run enough VMs) to really abuse this.
.
|
Prometheus Hinken
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:01:16 -
[108] - Quote
I think this is a great idea and fully support it. However, my only concern is Faction Warfare LP farming.
Alpha Clones are limited to the racial combat skills up to Cruiser sized ships and weapons, and it seems like T1/Faction modules. This leaves most farmable content out, such as PI and Mining alts. However, it sounds like Alpha clones can still sign up for Faction Warfare and participate to receive full Loyalty Points. This has much potential to be abused and farmed for free; this would also hurt the LP-to-ISK ecosystem greatly. So what do you do?
Option 1: Restrict Alpha Clones from participating in Faction Warfare. I don't like nor recommend this option. Faction Warfare is a great way for rookie pilots to learn the ropes of combat while still flying relatively cheap ships and to earn money via the LP Rewards.
Option 2: Allow Alpha Clones to fully participate in Faction Warfare; however, change their Loyalty Point gains to a certain percentage of what normal gains are. I recommend this option because it encourages new players to actually venture out to lowsec, join Faction Warfare corporations and alliances, and participate in fleet/solo PvP, and also see the fruits of their labor with LP gains, albeit diminished than their Omega clone counterparts.
Option 3: Allow full participation and loyalty point gain by Alpha Clones. As mentioned above, I believe this would lead to a massive increase of LP which would severely affect the LP ecosystem. |
wucas
She asked for it
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:01:52 -
[109] - Quote
Are you planning on changing skill requirements for items so alpha-clones can/can't use them? For example most faction modules currently have lower skill requirements than the respective T2 mod, are you gonna change that? |
KhanidLady
White Knight Social Club Play Hard Pray Harder
21
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:01:52 -
[110] - Quote
A friend just suggested: "CCP could disallow turning safety off in highsec for Alphas too, then not much of an issue" |
|
Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
108
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:02:15 -
[111] - Quote
Well ->
more t1 fit Griffin blobs? more t1 fit alt logi accounts and ewar? more scammers and spammers
This is stupid.
This feels like a complete screw over to loyal players who paid their dues.
Alpha clones should be bare minimal and should be locked into NPC corps.
Please CCP understand the way people game these days, this is going to massively impact customer engagement and loyalty. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium
475
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:03:03 -
[112] - Quote
Question at the devs on this:
1. If I launch an alpha account, can I launch another one on the same computer? 2. Can I sign up for multiple alpha accounts w/the same email address? 3. If I have an omega account can I launch a single or multiple alpha accounts with it?
These questions will affect how your current player base uses these. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1488
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:03:07 -
[113] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:I don't think you should be allowing any industry or trade skills on alpha clones, if you value the health of the in game economy.
It's just too easy to exploit and once it is adopted by enough players, it will be just too essential not to exploit.
If limited to PvP and PvE, I don't think I will have any serious problems with this proposal, but if you allow me and others like me to produce unlimited industry alts with no practically enforceable limitations on that, then things will get very bad and very quickly. I disagree here. The only reason there is inflation in this game is because CCP adjusts the cost and availability of minerals/ship components. Driving down the price of T1 ships and modules would be healthy for a lot of people. Used to be able to fit a domi for under 80 mil. The hulls are around 200 mil now NOT because of inflation but because of CCP rebalancing. Let us stop the 'eve economy is real' pitch. Hi, you appear to have quoted my post but nothing you have said is in any way related to my post. Was this a mistake? |
Ryzhik Belka
Free of Taxes
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:03:21 -
[114] - Quote
Swarms of ventures will drive mineral costs to zero. |
Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
20
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:03:27 -
[115] - Quote
Guess CCP are just tired from this game and wants to end it ASAP. CCP are not respecting playerbase and are not providing the needed assistance on the numerous bugs they created with this almost monthly updates and i-¦m not talking about the time the took to answer the tickets (about 3 weeks). As someone said a few post back, CCP SEAGUL have ruined this game, the decline starts when she assumed the executive direction of this game, I have nothing personally against her, but she-¦s not the right person to the charge, thats only my oppinion. Constant socket closed in each account from 10 to 10 minutes one at a time, capacitor not shown the ship cap, api-¦s not working all the time are just some examples of the bad work that CCP have done and it seems they are not going to be solved in a near future.
Now CCP wants to put more people on game playing in a freemode why? 55.000 players before CCP SEAGUL assumes this game, and 25.000/30.000 players after she assumes this game should mean something and lead CCP into some conclusions.
In other company-¦s the monthy incoming reduction for bad decisions are not take lightly, but thats in other company-¦s and it seems CCP dosent need the monthly income and dont want to be reckognize as a successfull gaming devoloper company.
|
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1096
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:04:28 -
[116] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Elenahina wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote:Will PI set-ups be disabled while on Alpha clones? You can set up two characters with a decent PI set-up in a 30-day paid-for period, so unless planetary colonies are disabled during that time, it's going to be rather overpowered to pay once for a free source of ISK thereafter. I never thought about that. Pay for an account for 90 -sih days to train all three characters, and then make free money forever. PI skills are not included in the alpha list in the devblog.
In retrospect, I see your point. You could create one colony, but it wouldn't generate much at all because you'd lose access to the cc upgrades skill.
Ok, objection to that recalled.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium
475
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:05:13 -
[117] - Quote
@bad bobby - c'mon. I'm obviously countering by saying that they'd be good for the economy (trade / industry alphas). Disagree or not, but don't be an ass. |
Hong Hu
Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition
28
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:06:27 -
[118] - Quote
And while CCP is at it changing clones how about:
- No implants for Alpha clones. - Implants for Omega clones can only be installed (and more importantly) removed in stations. |
Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
155
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:06:29 -
[119] - Quote
what happens if I've x market orders up and my clone reverts to alpha? As it is now the market orders stay up even when I'm not subbed. |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
34
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:07:21 -
[120] - Quote
Disclaimer: I have only skimmed over the skill lists and maybe comment later on them.
The game provides the means and the world where a completely new player can start from scratch with no help inside and only a bit of background research beforehand to amass enough wealth to plex before spending a single buck and keep plexing. Apparently this is undesired, and I do agree with it.
What drives this Free-to-play decision? Is your your subscription rate going down so much from the abundance of bad design choices you communicated and made over the last years, so you would like to give players the chance to see for themselves if it's still worth it which potentially improves online times and thus more chances for them to get hooked again?
Or is ISK vs. gametime going down so much that you now need to bait a ton of players into the community and hope they're spending a few bucks on ship skins before they jump out again?
Regarding multiboxing; To me, one Alpha account on top of as many subscribed accounts sounds like a good intermediate mix between "trial only" and "as many paid accounts as your computer can handle"
Regarding support: I can still log in with accounts which are long unsubscribed (and one old trial account) into zendesk and write tickets. I don't understand why you think there should be a problem?
Regarding test servers: Mass tests yes, anything else no. Because you want many people on mass tests. The more the merrier.
Questions:
- Will regular Trial accounts be completely going away? Or will you become "Alpha" after the trial stage?
- Can old characters who still have unallocated skillpoints use these to train restricted omega skills which have been started and half finished?
- If you are going to kill trial accounts, what was your reason for allowing tons of skills not that long ago, including Trial PI and now everything gets scrapped? Did your feedback feelers shown it was no good and you decided this wasn't a direction you wanted to take?
- Are you going to change current new player starting skills (again?)
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the idea of an extended trial and the ability for people to get back with their old accounts to see what the game is like before resubscribing blindly. Just be careful to not mess around too much with people having had subscribed accounts with all those hoops and loops to not corrupt character entries. But I don't see the current state of being beneficial to grab more new players.
Quote:Just like you, weGÇÖve known this for a long time and, just like you, weGÇÖve been doing everything we can to bring more people into our spectacular sandbox Yeah. So where are your plans for a proper UI overhaul, spectacularly good NPE and revamped career choices to pursue? Without those, it will be one big rid of disappointment for everyone you try to lure in. This will not change replacing trial accounts with Alpha clone states. Because if a player cannot be hooked or understand your game within the 14 day trial period, you've failed. A player doesn't need more time. You want a player to be hooked within the first session, craving more on the next day and subsequent days. Unlimited trial is not the answer to that if your core game interfacing and outlook remains... "insufficient." |
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2665
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:07:32 -
[121] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:I have some MAJOR concerns.
1) Suicide ganking. The biggest obstacle for players is getting enough alpha to take a target down. With this change, it is now within the grasp of a player to launch 20+ alpha clone players in thrashers to gank things.
2) Faction Warfare. It is now possible for a single player to launch a large number of clients to close FW complexes.
3) Scouts. It is now possible for me to put a scout into every system within X jumps of me. Granted you eliminated cloaks, but I can just put them in capsules and I can scale to multiple characters per system so all my eyes won't get podded at the same time. Nobody wants to go probe down a bunch of worthless capsules in space in every system.
I would suggest that all the problems can be fixed by only allowing a single alpha client to log into Eve from a single computer. Most people won't have enough computers (or able to run enough VMs) to really abuse this.
I'm not opposed to this Clone States idea, but these are valid concerns.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1496
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:08:28 -
[122] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:@bad bobby - c'mon. I'm obviously countering by saying that they'd be good for the economy (trade / industry alphas). Disagree or not, but don't be an ass. I couldn't find an argument to disagree with, so I asked for clarification.
I particularly found the idea of there being inflation, when the EVE economy has been deflationary for some time somewhat odd. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14545
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:08:57 -
[123] - Quote
It's good that CCP left heavy drones off the list, but you can still pve plenty well with tech1 mediums.
Here is an idea to curb the potetinal multiboxing abuse if CCP doesn't at least want to limit alpha/omega clone multiboxing:
Don't let alpha clones assign drones to anyone. |
Alhira Katserna
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
2286
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:09:05 -
[124] - Quote
Following restrictions MUST apply here, ccp. I mean seriously...
- Not being able to join FW. Farming alts are already a problem.
- Apply current restrictions like with trial accounts. No Alpha and Omega being able to be logged in at the same time.
- No corperation management skill. Scout-wardec corps and even more failed newbro corps will damage the game and NPE.
- Not being able to gank right from the bat. Don-¦t even let this begin, ccpls.
- No jump clones. Being able to scout 2 systems with an Alpha Clone on either side of the universe seems rubbish.
- Think about something for industry because having 4 production lines per Alpha Clone means 12 per account. I already ran a few numders in my head and under certain circumstances this means a not unreasonable ammount of impact on Industry. Of course you need to know what you do but pretty much every Industrialist in this game should be easily able to figure out ways to abuse this. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2665
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:10:13 -
[125] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:I don't think you should be allowing any industry or trade skills on alpha clones, if you value the health of the in game economy.
It's just too easy to exploit and once it is adopted by enough players, it will be just too essential not to exploit.
If limited to PvP and PvE, I don't think I will have any serious problems with this proposal, but if you allow me and others like me to produce unlimited industry alts with no practically enforceable limitations on that, then things will get very bad and very quickly.
Very valid concerns.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
339
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:11:56 -
[126] - Quote
This will be good for a game, but CCP will go bunkrupt. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2944
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:12:04 -
[127] - Quote
Gneeznow wrote:what happens if I've x market orders up and my clone reverts to alpha? As it is now the market orders stay up even when I'm not subbed. Ditto for industry jobs.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Marsha Mallow
2899
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:12:07 -
[128] - Quote
Supported. Glad to see you came up with a way to implement FTP without penalising existing players.
Good job to Seagull on the vid explaining the mechanics, it's really useful to have on complex blogs that need summarising. Might be worth considering doing short dev vids more frequently on blogs, although at the moment Seagull is the best at delivering these.
As has already been mentioned, please limit log ins on trial accounts - this mechanic already exists so it shouldn't be too hard to implement. Although there may be some who bypass it using multiple email addresses, the client should be able to stop multiple logins from one machine/IP.
My only concern might be for people who have recently invested into SP farms. Especially those who used the recent special offer. You're allowing the creation of free 5m sp alts, which won't come into circulation until mid/late Jan with a November release. That may not be enough time for recent adopters to recoup their investment into 5m SP alts to SP farm. Perhaps it's worth considering a limited SP extraction amnesty between now and Nov so existing players can claw that SP back. Full disclosure: I have a lot of accounts myself which will be hit by this, but I invested in them last year so they are at break even currently. People who jumped on this later may not be so lucky. It is a minority, and they should have calculated the risk before investing in this market, but as a gesture of goodwill it might appease some of the more vocal opponents. There may be a risk of flooding the SP market if something like this is enacted but it'd likely be a short term dip, and could possibly be managed by a staggered amnesty.
Svara - haha u said flow
|
Ledo Hashur
New Eden Development Corp Warped Intentions
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:12:17 -
[129] - Quote
Add this to the bucket list of, "Top 10 Dumbest Eve Features from CCP"
What is driving this CCP? Is it really new players? I'm sure that's part of it, but I'm also quite sure you have to be cognizant of how it will also drive the use of umpteen alts for ganking, hot dropping (if they can light a cyno... which doesn't require much skill to begin with), mining, etc. With an army of disposable toons, I see way more destruction and laying of waste in the Eve-verse.
What does that ultimately mean for CCP? More profits, of course. More revenue. As the stuff players truly value gets destroyed more frequently, they are more likely to pony up for Plex.
This is an awful concept. I hope CCP places some barriers on this or it will be a massive CF and I predict CCP will lose relative to the net number of people playing the game (not characters/alts/toons).
A system for this purpose already exists. It's called Trial Accounts. As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." CCP, if you are doing this (as I believe you are) in an effort to stoke revenue, you're heading down the wrong path. Why? Because you are breaking some of the fundamental game dynamics in the process. You are going to neuter some key aspects of the game that are why it's played to begin with. This is an effort to stoke the 'pay to play' concept, albeit indirectly. It's a terrible idea.
If you want to increase the # of players - actual real people paying for your game - as I'm sure you do, you'd be better off tweaking other dynamics.
There's no argument from me that this game is not friendly to new players. It still has a very steep learning curve, and many people bail after the trial period after being turned off. I get that you want to lower the barrier for entry, per se. However, this concept is just going to be abused by veteran players more than it will be a path of new subscribers. You need to think this through. I am afraid that like most of your new ideas over the past several years, it is being pushed out the door without being vetted well, and as a result will likely have a number of unintended, negative consequences.
Here's an idea: take this concept and form a committee of veteran players, and seek their input. Be honest about your goals and intentions, and stop feeding us bullcrap. We all know this is not just a game, but a business. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34161
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:12:18 -
[130] - Quote
I've wondered for quite a while who you were making EVE bigger for.
I like this
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
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Aram Kachaturian
Aram Pleasure Hub Holding
209
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:13:02 -
[131] - Quote
THE PROPHECY WAS TRUE.
UPGRADE TO OMEGA ONLINE
Servant of the Secret League, Wielder of the Monocle Clubhouse Flame.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4405
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:13:33 -
[132] - Quote
dev blog wrote: Characters will start the game with the same 400,000 skill points as they do now and will be able to train freely within the Alpha list. A fully trained Alpha will have roughly 5 million skill points. You can find the full Alpha list in the Q&A below the blog.
This is straight up pay to win. A paid account in a T1 frigate will stand an excellent chance against 2-3 free accounts. At least let all the support skills for frigates be trained up, even if you restrict the actual ship skills themselves.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
613
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:14:45 -
[133] - Quote
Looking over the skills again, I'm glad to see that Heavy and Sentry drones aren't going to be available.
I would, however, like to recommend that Alpha accounts be unable to fit an oversized prop. Otherwise, we might see Alpha accounts in cheap, fast ships with oversized props taking the place of cloaky campers.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Valkyrie Freya
Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:15:30 -
[134] - Quote
I am not convinced its good idea yet. its going to swell ranks of some major alliances and like to silly levels and it will need to be limited to one alpha account online per PC. Otherwise it you will be able to have ton of free alts and s h i t DPS something with numbers over skill |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14548
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:19:02 -
[135] - Quote
Valkyrie Freya wrote:I am not convinced its good idea yet. its going to swell ranks of some major alliances and like to silly levels and it will need to be limited to one alpha account online per PC (IP/MAC). Otherwise it you will be able to have ton of free alts and s h i t DPS something with numbers over skill
I am contractually obligated to now say this: " Dreddit is REALLY recruiting now"!
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yuma detog
Skyrock
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:20:40 -
[136] - Quote
Are you gonna add a warning box (like when jumping into lowsec or fitting rigs) for people on an alpha-clone that are about to log in a character that's in an omega-ship in space, so people that missclick don't accidentally log in a titan that's basically helpless?
|
Rain6637
NulzSec
34161
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:21:07 -
[137] - Quote
Valkyrie Freya wrote:I am not convinced its good idea yet. its going to swell ranks of some major alliances and like to silly levels and it will need to be limited to one alpha account online per PC (IP/MAC). Otherwise it you will be able to have ton of free alts and s h i t DPS something with numbers over skill yeah I think it could have been presented as an indefinite extension to trial account periods. I multibox and would love concurrent alpha accounts. I would also understand if that was disabled.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Harlei Quinn
Valhallas Gates Investment Not Yet Critical
10
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:21:28 -
[138] - Quote
This is another example of CCP, and seagull in specific, leaping before looking. Man, and I do mean man, cause she looks like one.......you should really ask your customers before making silly changes. And then listen to them before going ahead and doing it anyway. Clone states and every stupid noob that has quit coming back to server?? That's going to result in extra server load, lag, and crashes with nothing really good to show for it. And im sure when you "update" this "feature" it will be even worse. I have given you all chance after chance after chance to do something good with this game. All I have seen is failure after failure. Well, im done. As soon as im done with this im unsubbing. If you all feel the same way the only way to get them to pay attention is to mess with their cash flow. Un-sub with me until they get the point. This **** has to stop. |
Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
45
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:22:00 -
[139] - Quote
So basically a time-unlimited trial account...
Sounds pretty good to me. More people playing the game is good for everyone.
Restricting multiboxing with alpha clones would limit a lot of potential abuse without having to implement other more severe restrictions. (like safety green only) |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1098
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:22:48 -
[140] - Quote
Alhira Katserna wrote:... pretty much every Industrialist in this game should be easily able to figure out ways to abuse this.
I already have, and I didn't even really try that hard.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
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Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
156
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:23:19 -
[141] - Quote
Please for the love of god make alpha clones unable to suicide gank in high sec, set their safety to yellow so they can pvp in low sec but not gank in high sec. Blobs of t1 blaster catalysts will be all over high sec otherwise and we all know it. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
2066
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:23:24 -
[142] - Quote
What happens to trial invites? I'm assuming that a trial invite would give you an Omega State but with current restriction on skills for 21 days?
If the trial changes, will there still be a buddy reward program?
- Altrue asking the important questions here
EDIT: Answered
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Retired [Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr
Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
436
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:23:25 -
[143] - Quote
EVE is literally dying now. I've started playing in 2003 and I'm seriously considering to quit and never come back. Most of the changes that happened over the past two years already made it rather hard for me to justify still playing EVE, but introduce this bullshit and you manage to hit the final nail in the coffin and kill off EVE for good.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Tony Rocca
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:24:17 -
[144] - Quote
Hey guys,
Couple big questions:
Major alliances control access to their (external) services via the subscription status of accounts, as reflected on the XML or CREST APIs.
- How will these APIs reflect the Alpha/Omega state of accounts?
- When I allow my subscription to lapse, what happens to assets or skills I trained while I was an Omega account that Alpha accounts cannot use? e.g. I subbed for a month, trained up Cyno 5, then stopped paying - regressing to Alpha. Can I still light a cyno, since that skill is technically trained?
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1601
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:24:38 -
[145] - Quote
So many teaaaaaarsss!
Seriously people stop your doomsday scenarios please. This will be the biggest boost to EVE's player base in the last 13 years.
Solution to suicide ganking: Either allow only a single Alpha account per IP address or restrict their security to yellow. Problem solved.
Would you people please read before you cry wolf? They said that a lot of it is still up for tweaking and the skill list can change. Instead of b*tching, help to improve the idea.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Giaus Felix
Hedion University Amarr Empire
184
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:24:45 -
[146] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It's good that CCP left heavy drones off the list, but you can still pve plenty well with tech1 mediums.
Here is an idea to curb the potetinal multiboxing abuse if CCP doesn't at least want to limit alpha/omega clone multiboxing:
Don't let alpha clones assign drones to anyone. Dammit there goes my double Vexor ratting idea
Grrr.
I am Ralph's junk DNA.
|
Kahless Monstrosity
Doughboys Escalating Entropy
7
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:25:19 -
[147] - Quote
I think a couple of no brainers should be limiting to one alpha account online, like trials and lock safety to green or yellow to prevent high sec ganking abuse. |
BuntCakez
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
32
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:25:35 -
[148] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:EVE is literally dying now. I've started playing in 2003 and I'm seriously considering to quit and never come back. Most of the changes that happened over the past two years already made it rather hard for me to justify still playing EVE, but introduce this bullshit and you manage to hit the final nail in the coffin and kill off EVE for good.
Im ok with narrowsighted people leaving :P
can i have your stuff?
|
StuRyan
Barefist Pikey's House Renovation's
96
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:25:45 -
[149] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Well ->
more t1 fit Griffin blobs? more t1 fit alt logi accounts and ewar? more scammers and spammers
This is stupid.
This feels like a complete screw over to loyal players who paid their dues.
The only advantage I see here is people will use them as throw away alts to satisfy their chest beating, therefore, Alpha clones should be bare minimal and should be locked into NPC corps and have access to certain high sec systems only. They should also not be able to transfer isk, items and anything related to "gaining an edge" over competition.
Please CCP understand the way people game these days and make decisions based on true science and not just because it is a "good idea". This is going to massively impact customer engagement and loyalty because the fear of losing something is so powerful to engagement by doing this you actually do the opposite of trying to create loyal customers, you actually lose engaged people.
Always remember this, when something is free, there is no value.
Bang on tbh.... |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1604
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:26:05 -
[150] - Quote
Tony Rocca wrote:Hey guys, Couple big questions: Major alliances control access to their (external) services via the subscription status of accounts, as reflected on the XML or CREST APIs.
- How will these APIs reflect the Alpha/Omega state of accounts?
- When I allow my subscription to lapse, what happens to assets or skills I trained while I was an Omega account that Alpha accounts cannot use? e.g. I subbed for a month, trained up Cyno 5, then stopped paying - regressing to Alpha. Can I still light a cyno, since that skill is technically trained?
Dude, read the blog. Any skills that go beyond the Alpha list will be blocked and any modules that require those skills will go offline. So no, you can't light a cyno on a free account (thank god).
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
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Cariq
EVE University Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:27:08 -
[151] - Quote
Nice, I think this could work well. More players help EVE, and this clone system sounds like it won't cheapen the experience too much. Good idea! I look forward to seeing how it works in practice. I think multi-boxing will indeed need to be looked at to prevent abuse. |
Valterra Craven
597
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:28:05 -
[152] - Quote
Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you? |
Egsise
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:28:23 -
[153] - Quote
Many that start Eve from trial or buddy invite end up mining to pay their plex and 90% of those who try Eve quit in a few months because Eve is boring as watching asteroid mining.
Alpha clone players face the same problem, it just makes new players very frustrated and they will still face the fact that they must pay to play.
It's like a neverending trial.
When new players want to make isk and fly the good ships without paying the sub and they ragequit if they can't what next, buff the free account skills? |
Anthar Thebess
1627
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:28:29 -
[154] - Quote
Possible abuses; - free mission pullers / lvl 4 burner farmers you don't need faction fitted frigate to kill a burner 5 T1 frigates will also manage to do it\ - FW farming, is also T1 frigates and stabs - scouting/tackling , nothing like 50 accounts each 3 characters that are logged in some region, login and look to something for tackle in specific system - spam scamming - it is part of eve, but can this people can be locked out from local chat in major trade hubs?
to be continued
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2945
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:28:55 -
[155] - Quote
I think you need to restrict red flags to omega. That way lowsec PvP is fine and fun highsec activities (killing MTUs, baiting mission runners) are fine without enabling a flood of gankers.
Either that or put a really tight limit on number of logged in accounts.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Firnas
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:29:36 -
[156] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Can people actually read the devblog and watch the video before complaining?
While the CSM only saw this on Monday, Most had been hammered out already.
Stuff it buddy. I had my fill of CSM when you guys pushed to get watch list status destroyed and murdered the true merc profession.
This is going to be zerg central.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7820
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:29:50 -
[157] - Quote
Well, it's been a good run. I'll take my mother's advice and look on the bright side - at least when this goes live, I will be able to log in for free to biomass all my toons.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Rain6637
NulzSec
34162
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:30:06 -
[158] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you? Those are the ones you want, actually. They lurk reddit the hardest and hype is good.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Alhira Katserna
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
2291
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:30:24 -
[159] - Quote
Also after giving it another thought you may want to open up all frigates and destroyers to alphas.
In hindsight of lowsec and nullsec life (and especially as someone close to PH) it is terrible if you want to make newbro destroyer roams and are limited by what ship each one can fly. A trial now can train within a day or less into a destroyer and thus can get into a cormorant fleet or talwar fleet within a day. I already imagine the disappointment on boith side, the fc and the newbro, if you tell them they can not come with them on a destroyer fleet as they choose the wrong race at the beginning.
I think we all get what you intend to do here. You want to get people hooked with the game. And for many newbros having an impact in newbros fleets this is a great opportunity that you are blocking. |
Solecist Project
32753
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:31:04 -
[160] - Quote
On behalf of everyone else who wants to know...
Will Alphas be able to post outside of NCQA?
Thank you.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
|
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Kurosaki Rukia
The Tuskegee Spacemen
53
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:31:17 -
[161] - Quote
I think this is a great thing overall. And I welcome the change.
I think it will be great to see new players being able to enjoy fleets and faction warfare who otherwise might not have been able to afford to play. And since there is no time limit, it gives people more time to explore eve and hopefully fall in love with it. Since the skillset is perfect for players to enjoy faction warfare among other things I think it will be good for lowsec.
The planned skill limits are perfect, and from what I can see will prevent abuse. Especially the limitation on cloaking, cynoing etc. I definitely think that Alphas should have their safeties locked in highsec, but that's just me.
I do think that those who already pay their subscriptions should be able to use one alpha simultaniously with their existing accounts. This doesn't help me reduce the number of subscriptions I need. Nor do I expect it to. I have three subscriptions and I will always need those three subscriptions (1 main, 1 capital pilot, & 1 cloaky scout/cyno pilot). And I am glad that the proposed skills will not change that, because including such skills in an alpha would encourage lots of abuse. But If I'm already a paying subscriber, having to log off all my paid subscriptions just to do something on an alpha would be a major pain and wouldn't make me any happier about being a paying customer, that's for damn sure. |
Crow White
Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:32:04 -
[162] - Quote
Pls, decide to restrict multiboxing with alfa clones, because if u will not do this, there will be 255 man fleets of suicide toraxes in t1 fit. Guys are planning already ^^ |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8658
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:33:21 -
[163] - Quote
Looks like its time for Doc to follow Tippia and Mr. Garibaldi beyond the Rim. 2016 has been a helluva year for losing people, making bad decisions, and unintended consequences. The EA rot has become terminal.
Especially comical are the following:
CCP wrote: We have not decided... We donGÇÖt think clone states will have much impact... We donGÇÖt expect a significant increase in this kind of activity.. WeGÇÖve deliberately tried to limit this behavior..
Doc's personal favorite:
CCP wrote: We are creating and implementing concrete plans to make sure we can provide the same level of support for all of our players
CCP, you can barely provide acceptable levels of customer support now. The kinds of players you are trying to attract won't put up with what you consider adequate, and they won't accept your usual platitudes.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
|
Lasisha Mishi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:33:22 -
[164] - Quote
looking at it
it looks like a more limited trial, but without the time limit
they can't train battlecruiser like they could in the trial. but are limited to frigates, destroyers, and cruisers
what i'm concerned about is tech 1 or tech 2. if they limited to tech 1, fair enough.
if they allowed tech 2......oh god the stealth bomber spam plz no nononononoononono.
overall its more appealing to myself personally (if i was just joining the game now) because no time limit so i can hop on whenever in a venture or rifter. or kestrel
and no time limit means they have all the time they need to earn enough isk to buy plex.
but considering i'm in love with stealth bombers, confessors, Hurricanes, and rokhs. i'm going to continue to subscribe. cause i can't play without my hurricane |
Shinzann
Moosearmy Moose Federation
30
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:34:58 -
[165] - Quote
Vic Vorlon wrote:I predict this will cause barely a ruffled feather, with perhaps one or two minor questions.
Or, y'know, a threadnought that blocks out the sun.
The initial response by a lot of people is that CCP has to prevent swarms of alpha clone being controlled by a single player being used to strip mine belts, clear anoms etc. I agree with that; don't let this unbalance the game by letting people take advantage of it.
I concur. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14549
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:35:13 -
[166] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you?
It's not that, it's that CCP does understand that (as nonsensical it is to me and others), that whole "50 cents per day for 23.5 hours of game time" thing is a psycological barrier to some people.
The idea is to let those people have some bit of EVE for 'free' and then depend on other psycological pressures to get them to go beyond that ("I got blown up because I can't use tech2, I'm going to sub and fit tech2 stuff and win!!!").
So far so good, i don't really have a problem with that though I think it's naive thinking. The Sub isn't a big barrier, lack of thempark style pve and EVE non-consensual pvp natures are WAY bigger barriers to most players, and if CCP touches those they will be admitting that the EVE experiment is a failure.
But, unless CCp rethinks some things about this 'feature', they are going to run smack dab into a version of "Malcanis' law" where old players are going to use the feature to improve their experience while new players end up quitting anyways, just like it happened every other time someone at CCP uttered the words "this will help new players". |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2321
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:36:20 -
[167] - Quote
And there I was in another thread suggesting that the way it was going all that would be left for the HTFU types to shoot was other HTFU types, where each of them would be waiting for each other to do something in game to drop on them which of course they would not do... Would be hilarious to not watch...
Well you are at least giving them something to shoot, I just wonder if their ego's will still be massaged shooting such easy to kill characters, my bet is yes. Well a great way to give them the thrill of easy kills.
Why don't you go the entire hog CCP and give them free ships and stuff to be shot in to keep enough debased cannon fodder in play for the poor misunderstood HTFU players...
Actually I am a bit amazed at this move to be honest...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
|
Dominous Nolen
We're Happy In Wormhole Space
212
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:36:42 -
[168] - Quote
I was literally talking to my corp (jokingly) about how this could be a thing. Holy ****, the player base might take an increase but is it going to help in the long run?
Hopefully the alpha clones are getting a large amount of limitation to prevent shenanigans.
Either way my only thought Here
@dominousnolen
|
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite CODE.
73
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:37:35 -
[169] - Quote
Fantastic development for the longevity of EVE...
\o/
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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Dethahal Khardula
Brooklynn Eve and Co. Survival Instinct
7
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:37:46 -
[170] - Quote
is there a table with a slightly better layout for the skills? sort of skills for amarr - for gallente - for caldari - for minmatar - for all |
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4405
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:38:22 -
[171] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote: what i'm concerned about is tech 1 or tech 2. if they limited to tech 1, fair enough.
if they allowed tech 2......oh god the stealth bomber spam plz no nononononoononono.
Actually, they aren't even limited to the full power of a T1 frigate. T1 racial frigate of your birth race, frigate 4, weapons systems 4, support skills at 3-4. I'm feeling pretty good about being able to take on 3 free players with a T1 frigate. It might be an almost arbitrary number of free players with pirate frigs.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
Raddan Eldre'Thalas
4 Marketeers Rura-Penthe
24
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:38:58 -
[172] - Quote
Quote:Q: Can other players see my clone state?
A: No, only you will be able to see your clone state. We think that seeing the clone state of other players would provide too much strategic value to make it public.
I'm not fully on board with this part of it.
Unless I can dig up their states from API keys I'll be very reluctant to recruit new corp members. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
440
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:39:12 -
[173] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I agree, multiple log ins across clone state must be prohibited. nothing wrong with multi boxing, but if we can multibox with alphas I WILL be putting a whole bunch of new drone ships in null sec anoms. My Inflationary pressure will blot out the Sun over CCP Quant's office window. This is also the only beef I have with this system.
There need to be a limitation on multiboxing these characters. It's just too easy to abuse.
|
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1907
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:39:38 -
[174] - Quote
this sounds ... mostly reasonable?
the only thing i'm somewhat worried about is "free" alts EVERYWHERE
i don't think people should be allowed to have |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
81
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:40:00 -
[175] - Quote
My initial ideas:
- Limit safety setting to yellow in all space (should be easier to implement than only green in hisec). This would allow shooting people in lowsec, but wouldn't allow ganging in hisec.
- I would limit faction ships out of Alpha clones. E.g. Alpha could train faction Cruiser Skill to lvl 3, but the faction ship would require cruiser lvl 4 (current requirement is lvl 2). At least to my understanding the plan is to give Alphas change to experience the game (indefinite trial) and find connections instead of being playable for ever with good satisfaction.
- I think trial restriction of only single client active at the time would be nice touch for Alphas too. Intel gathering is huge part of eve and free intel characters might be too powerful (even though they wouldn't benefit wormholes so much as missing cloak skills (good thing)). Though I get it might be interesting to dual box few characters in low sec and also this restriction can be bypassed with virtual machines for example. Still I think restriction to single character at a time puts pressure to make connections and friends (think Blizzard failed by making grouping too easy. You need to be forced to make friends). Side note: You guys probably should investigate how intel is gathered in eve also (e.g. lower the need for wormhole eyes and characters in systems to watch for local chat).
- Any plans how to tackle the problem that new players might see that EVE is now "pay to win" as you need subsciption to be useful or powerful? At least from my point of view the feelings should be that they want to subscribe to get more. Part of this is of course allowed skills, though I think bigger part is how things are presented and perceived, but also what is overall atmosphere around the topic in eve.
Though, I have to say your initial plan is mostly solid. Good work!
-- Also posted in reddit |
Ano Regni
Fweddit The Initiative.
34
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:43:36 -
[176] - Quote
so....... just reworded the trial accounts and called them Alpha State?
I am not a pirate, I work in private acquisition and redistribution dealing in personal assets
|
Harlei Quinn
Valhallas Gates Investment Not Yet Critical
11
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:44:02 -
[177] - Quote
remove this one too phantom. silence/ignore the unhappy. |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
615
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:45:08 -
[178] - Quote
Confirmation / Clarification request: It's stated that Frigates, Destroyers, and Cruisers are the only ships that can be used, but the racial Industrial skill (trained to I on all new chars) exists, so I want to be certain that industrials (Wreathe, Nereus, etc) aren't going to be allowed on Alpha's. Is that correct?
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
|
ProLoggedLegend
Jay Amazingness Appreciation Society I too am gay
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:46:20 -
[179] - Quote
As much as I like the fact that you try to attract new players with this a 5M sp limitation is too much. You get that much SP in less than 4 months. It would be better to find another limitation for F2P players like hisec |
Georgem Wallace
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:47:28 -
[180] - Quote
I personally think this is a great idea. So long, as like so many previous posts, Alpha clones are restricted to one per account. The reasons I often cancel my sub is mostly because my friends don't play. They don't play because it's a sub based game. Corps are great and there are some good ones but the ones I was a part of seemed to fall apart or the CEO was a spy or some other melodrama I couldn't be bothered taking part in. I understand previous reason for not liking Alphas in the game for example: flooding the market with cheap ore. But cheap resources usually mean cheap goods. Weather that's a bad thing or not I'm not sure, I'm not professing to be an economist but EVE market changes all the time and different regions have different prices even now. Perhaps the best reason that Alphas will be good is that some at least will stay long enough to want to be Omegas which will allow more revenue for CCP and hopefully give the game longevity and better updates. |
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Hendrink Collie
Contra Ratio DARKNESS.
105
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:47:30 -
[181] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you?
It's kinda like a brick and mortar store I'd say, you get a lot more sales if you can get the person to come inside the store first. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
2066
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:48:04 -
[182] - Quote
CCP Quant wrote:Nope, there will be a suitable replacement, stay tuned
How long do we have to stay tuned approximately? A day? A week? A month?
I need to know so that I can either hold on the new player content I'm about to release for youtube, or if it's worth waiting a few days, update it and then release it :p
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Retired [Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr
Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
|
Asuka Solo
Instant Annihilation
3022
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:48:15 -
[183] - Quote
Question 1: Will any trial accounts (that still exist, regardless of status), be converted into alpha accounts? If so, will they retain any skills that have been trained in the trial state prior to introducing this change?
Question 2: If any trial accounts we have lingering around in the archives of history (assuming of course, all trial accounts will automatically be converted into alpha states), have characters that have been renamed due to not being subscribed and or taking namespaces that have been cleared, will there be a way to petition a name change or will we have to re-create the character?
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
|
Darkwing Fiftytwo
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:48:43 -
[184] - Quote
What about limiting system access to high-sec or high/lo-sec?? Is that a good or bad idea? |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
342
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:49:38 -
[185] - Quote
Going to clean this up a bit, please stand by.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
|
darkani
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:02:31 -
[186] - Quote
i think basicaly it s a nice idea, it will keep you up agains concurency on video games market
but i m not affraid of the new player, i m afrraid of those catalyst and talwar account take could make any industries barely impossible to handle, for now i see a lot of abuse already i just cant imagine if game goes free.
many player hold themselves they dont want tp pay 2 account, so they pay attention to their account, sec status and standings. but if games goes free why wouldnt everyone have a real account and use free trash account? how about trial account cannot engage action into criminal action ? i would also.... increasse the access to the game for the free account limiting to t1.....i just place myself into a situation like that and.... i m not sure, i would grant acces to all t1 but no acces to faction/t2 so trial account could be logi, battleship and could really take a part into it
On an other side i would limitate those free account to 1 by ip per 3 month as exemple with possibilites to contact support for exceptionnal exemption, those could look at the log of the asker if the guys is good or not toward eve game mechanics: as exemple this guy only flyed a catalyst wich ganked 50 industrial in a week and i m even pretty sure this request could be answered by a script.
darkani |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:03:56 -
[187] - Quote
I'm Harmless wrote:HAHAHAHAA
The amount of desperation by CCP is comical.
here is how you get people to resub and play
"Dear vets, jump fatigue and SP trading were terrible mistakes, we are sorry, please resub your 15 accounts and we'll make it all go away.
Until then, thanks but no thanks.
ps.
"You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old. You can post a new one in 88 seconds."
what the hell is this garbage?
Had the same thing trying to post as well. |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
198
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:04:00 -
[188] - Quote
EVE going F2P Oh boy CCP must be desperate.
There are sooo many ways how players can abuse this feature: scouting, ganking, industry, etc. Players will abuse it in every way possible. I mean, we already have crazy players with 200+ skill farming alts, what do you think these kind of players will do with unlimited free accounts?
I bet it wont even take 24h until someone has written a bot that automatically creates new characters in bulk and then mines, ganks, etc with them. When the characters get banned, the bot will just reconnect for new IP, modify the computers hardware ID and start the process again.
You better start getting used to the new prices: Tritanium 2 ISK, PLEX 5 billions, 1 LP 0.0001 ISK. And 67 new gank victim rant threads per minute. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
438
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:06:11 -
[189] - Quote
I'm Harmless wrote:HAHAHAHAA
The amount of desperation by CCP is comical.
here is how you get people to resub and play
"Dear vets, jump fatigue and SP trading were terrible mistakes, we are sorry, please resub your 15 accounts and we'll make it all go away.
Until then, thanks but no thanks.
We can agree on SP trading, but jump fatigue was badly needed. It's a horrible band-aid that literally gives cancer, granted, but it's still needed for the overall health of the game.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Dierdra Vaal
interstellar stargate syndicate
353
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:06:39 -
[190] - Quote
Interesting idea, and not necessarily a bad one. I do have two questions:
1) Are there plans to prevent players from multiboxing these alpha clones? Is it a concern that established players will get access to effectively an unlimited number of simultaneously active accounts? (Are multiboxed swarms of alpha clones - in highsec or otherwise - the future of eve?)
2) Obviously the goal is convert non paying players (alpha) into paying players (omega). What if the conversion rate is lower than CCP expects/wants? I worry that having these free accounts in the game will then encourage CCP to add more microtransactions into the game in an attempt to get at least some money out of otherwise non-paying players. Can CCP comment on their expectations for this feature and potential additions or contingency plans?
Veto #205
Director Emeritus at EVE University
CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman
Evesterdam organiser and CSM Vote Match founder
Co-Author of the Galactic Party Planning Guide
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2467
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:06:40 -
[191] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:EVE going F2P Oh boy. CCP must be desperate. There are sooo many ways how players can abuse this feature: scouting, ganking, industry, etc. Players will abuse it in every way possible. I mean, we already have crazy players with 200+ skill farming alts, what do you think these kind of players will do with unlimited free accounts? I bet it wont even take 24h until someone has written a bot that automatically creates new characters in bulk and then mines, ganks, etc with them. When the characters get banned, the bot will just reconnect for new IP, modify the computers hardware ID and start the process again. You better start getting used to the new prices: Tritanium 2 ISK, PLEX 5 billions, 1 LP 0.0001 ISK. And 67 new gank victim rant threads per minute.
I mean, they can do it already with contemporary trial accounts, so I'm not sure what your point is.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
591
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:07:00 -
[192] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you?
From the dev blog:
"As you know, EVE is a very special game. Our single shard server means that every player truly affects every other, whether through economics, resource gathering, direct combat or bad posting. This in turn means that our universe is more interesting, more exciting and more dangerous with each additional citizen." |
VonDerTann
Massive Dynamic inc. Care Factor
0
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:07:03 -
[193] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:VonDerTann wrote:I just concerned about one thing: how about mulitple charactors under same account, if you are paid player, your main charactor is omega, the other two will regard as omega too or as alpha Per the news item, all characters on an account share the clone status. So the account is either Alpha or Omega, not the characters
thank you, amd how about the skills? without multitraining, can sub charactor train to same skill as alpha can have? or still need a plex to enable them to train |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2739
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:07:23 -
[194] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:3) Pity any poor idiot in high-sec. This is the biggest buff to high-sec ganking that I've ever seen. There will be literally no reason why every EVE player shouldn't have a basic ganking account, if not lots of them (see #2). We can already do that because of the last stupid feature the SP extractor. A suicide ganker has a very limited set of kills he needs. Once that is trained up you can simply extract and sell the excess SP to get the next PLEX. I reduced my subscriptions from 3 to 1 and have now 4 account, 3 of them get PLEXed this way.
So looks like you once again make a drama about nothing.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
440
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:09:25 -
[195] - Quote
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:What about limiting system access to high-sec or high/lo-sec?? Is that a good or bad idea? Narh, it should not be limited, since most of the "interesting" stuff is happening outside of highsec.
They should however limit multiboxing, so you can either only have one Alpha account active or an Omega + any Omega multiboxing alt. Basically, you shouldn't be able to multibox an Omega and Alpha or several Alpha accounts.
If they leave it as it currently is, the system is just too easily abused by older players.
As a FW player, I will just have a Griffin following me every time, essentially killing solo PvP, since you now need two ships to kill me. Or just create a swarm of Tristans and share the drones with my main.
There are many more ways to abuse this, but generally free multiboxing alts is a bad thing.
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Mark Hadden
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
76
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:09:44 -
[196] - Quote
lolz
is it a move from Subscription model to worst p2w ever known in history of gaming or just a better trial? No, its not a bout golden ammo, its not about slower progress, its about an entire 2 class player base. The one who plays for free and the ones you dont stand a chance because he pays money. |
DeadDuck
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
194
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:09:59 -
[197] - Quote
Great move CCP.
Hoppefully this will bring a lot of new blood to the game. A lot of people trying it, a lot quitting, and some being hooked... |
Meatbix
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
8
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:10:29 -
[198] - Quote
Frigates, frigates everywhere! Yay!!! \o/ |
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
140
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:11:07 -
[199] - Quote
Restricting skill extractors shouldn't be an issue, since you need 5.5m sp on a character to use one to begin with. As long as the Alpha clones can't reach that level of sp, skill extractors are moot. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3914
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:11:10 -
[200] - Quote
Clone Dunking!
Like hyperdunking, but with alpha clones.
One ganker bump scrams the target. The second ganker logs in a large number of alpha clone accounts. The second then warps a few clones to the target and shoots. He then goes to a new group of clones and repeats.
Subscription cost: One account for the bumper.
I am not sure if the second ganker could log out, and log in alpha accounts fast enough to permit doing this if there was a "one alpha account at a time" limit, but maybe he could, with a fast computer and a good connection. If so, CCP would need to limit the alpha clones to being unable to set the safety to red.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Thrice Hapus
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:11:37 -
[201] - Quote
I have only been playing EVE for nine months, so my experience is limited. In that short time, I have found that New Eden is best enjoyed as part of a great corporation. Space is quite empty and lonely otherwise! Since this change will hopefully encourage new players to check this game out, and since more players will result in more chances at building relationships within the game, I think this will be a good change.
After reading the dev blog and all the comments so far, it does seem that limiting alphas to green in hi-sec and to only one account per computer would be helpful for preventing abuse.
I do not read the forums very often, which choice has been reaffirmed after reading through these posts today. There is a lot of unhelpful expression of anger and even some outright hatred in many comments. It is great that people feel so much about this shared world -- I care about it, too. But it seems odd to take time only to vent spleen without suggesting anything constructive. And, at the end of the day, staying here is a choice. If it's no longer for you, there's a great big world outside of EVE out there! |
Nina Reis
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:11:59 -
[202] - Quote
First : i don't think it's a really bad idea this time. But you've to be really carefull to not break the game. Even if its means you have to put features one but one.
I See one issue :
- the SP trade market
Now :
- Sp are quite expense because you have to train a character (or to strip an old one) to 5m SP before it became profitable (plex => extractor => injector for sale)
Then
- It's free pour every single player to skill a character up to 5m and directly start selling its SP
Consequences
- The SP value (injector) will drop to near
Solution
- Increase the gap between alpha clone and the SP amount needed to extract SPs, for at least 2.5m SP (2 plex with poor remap and bad implant)
Issue
- Fight power balance in HS (and FW and LS and...)
Why ?
- **** ton of small ship you can multibox (example frigate or cruiser logi), or even multiboxing **** ton of thrasher arty
- A neutral scout in every ******* system for free
Cons+¬quence
- Unfair fight
- Lot of HS fighters will unsub most of their account
Solution
- DO NOT allow multiboxing alpha account
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
591
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:13:27 -
[203] - Quote
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:What about limiting system access to high-sec or high/lo-sec?? Is that a good or bad idea? Bad idea, IMO. I want Alpha characters to join me in nullsec to experience the area, to either fleet up with me or to shoot me.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14556
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:13:40 -
[204] - Quote
You poor poor people don't understand what this means. You don't see the REAL CASUALTY of this terrible move by CCP.
What is going to happen to all the "I Quit" posts?
"I quit" from a game you pay 15 bucks a month for has really power to change the course of CCPs development direction (15 bucks is a lot of money in places like Zimbabwe and Borneo), but "I'm quitting this free to play game that I never paid for in the 1st place" just doesn't have the same implied threat power!
Won't someone think of the (brain damaged, manipulative) children here????
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
74
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:14:03 -
[205] - Quote
I would have limited Mass Production to Level 1 instead of level 3. 2 slots vs 4, Granted both are far under 11.
What will happen if someone installs 11 slots for a year, and then goes to the standard account, will all 11 go idle, will only the last 7 go idle, or will the game cycle through them and run only 3 at a time?
What about Implants? If you have something that requires Cybernetics V installed, what happens when you drop to the lower "clone"... Will they stop working, or will they just work "as well as" the ones at Cybernetics 3?
Limiting them to 5 mil or so SP is good but I would also be tempted to put in a few other restrictons like making them stay at green or yellow on the safety settings just top stop suicide alts farming. I know this is mentioned but why you wouldnt pick this as a first option is a bit confusing to me.
Once the "Alpha" is maxed on their SP, what will happen, it just sits there?
If I have a training queue going then what will happen, will it drop out fully or something else?.
Generally I say I like this idea, It's like a better version of a trial account as it doesnt expire. As it is now you can get a "Free" account that will last until around 3.7 mil SP, so this isnt a huge change.
As someone asked earlier, what about trails and referrals?.
New players will save money by not buying an account until they are at the end of their 3rd month. I cant help but think a price decrease (or first 6 months half price offer) would have been better and less trouble.
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Harlei Quinn
Valhallas Gates Investment Not Yet Critical
11
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:14:10 -
[206] - Quote
With this update I want a full refund. across all my accounts. for unused gametime. Thanks. |
Zifrian
Distortion. Amplified.
1767
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:16:04 -
[207] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kahless Monstrosity wrote:What about FW LP farming? I see people creating tons of free characters to farm FW LP? True, I've done lvl 4 FW missions in Caracals with minimal tech2 fittings, won't be hard to use tech1.. Why is this a problem? If they limit logins, then they are just playing a legitimate part of the game. I don't see the problem.
GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Industry guy, third-party developer, jack-of-all-trades - master of none
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!
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Varakh Snowscales
Overheat Everything and CHARGE Hell's Pirates
0
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:16:39 -
[208] - Quote
Can we up the SP of a new player too. I dont see the point of make a new players do **** all for a few days while train basic skills. Putting someone into a tackle frigate on day 1 isn't fun.. You get fragged and bitter vets moan at you for losing point. t1 cruisers should be a players first ship.. Not a frigate.
Overheat Everything and Charge! - 0.0, PVP Focused Corp Recruiting Now!
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Zeddrick Anthar
Overheat Everything and CHARGE Hell's Pirates
15
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:18:37 -
[209] - Quote
The 'full alpha' skill set seems like a pretty good place to start playing to me. Why not just do away with alpha training altogether and start all new characters as fully trained alphas based on their preferences?
New players would still need to earn the ISK to actually buy any ships and would still need to figure out how to fit them, etc so there would be plenty for them to learn. But with a full alpha clone the gap between, for example, a brand new player and a 1 year old one would be a lot smaller and new players would be able to take part in some of the more interesting parts of the game from day 1.
Also it would stop a black market in fully trained alphas from developing.
Z. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7821
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:19:36 -
[210] - Quote
I have one question.
What will be done to prevent free accounts being used to flood chat with gold spamming and used for RMT?
This is my greatest concern. My sub expires in a couple of hours, and it will remain that way pending the biomass of all toons on it come the November expansion if a satisfactory explanation of how this will be stopped is not provided, which will make this my last post ever without said answer.
When SWTOR went F2P, this was literally the first thing that happened. F2P accounts botting on starter worlds to hit lvl 10 so they could go to fleet and spam chat with their gold selling websites. They're doing it right now, I'm gearing a Shadow and every minute or two, a new message from someone with a name that's basically the equivalent of mashing the keyboard (ie jbgfr or some such) advertises their RMT website with an exchange rate. And it's not just one or two or three, it's a dozen. And it doesn't matter if you report them, because they just create a new Gmail account and presto, new free toon ready to spam away to replace the one they lost.
Tell me how you'll prevent this, please. Because if I log on in November and see even one RMT ad in chat in any system, I swear I'm done.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
74
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:19:52 -
[211] - Quote
Nina Reis wrote: I See one issue : - the SP trade market Now : - Sp are quite expense because you have to train a character (or to strip an old one) to 5m SP before it became profitable (plex => extractor => injector for sale)
Then - It's free pour every single player to skill a character up to 5m and directly start selling its SP Consequences - The SP value (injector) will drop to near ''0''
Solution
- Increase the gap between alpha clone and the SP amount needed to extract SPs, for at least 2.5m SP (2 plex with poor remap and bad implant)
CCP Hates any form of "Passive" income, even if its something players have to invest trillions into and still give up dedicated time and management. My point with that statement is that perhaps this mode is partially a plus to them because it will do what you say. It will kill the SP farming market. That market was/would have died anyhow, but this change COULD see it happen slightly quicker but ONLY if new players take it up as an option. I see players who have been here for 10 years not taking the smart option, so Its hard for me to think i'll see some of these players picking it out early days.
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Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite CODE.
73
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:19:59 -
[212] - Quote
Harlei Quinn wrote:With this update I want a full refund. across all my accounts. for unused gametime. Thanks.
What a baby....
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
43
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:20:42 -
[213] - Quote
...............Ohhhhh boy. This will be INTRESTING!
I wont say EVE is dead. But im not sure what im gonna say about this...
I belive that its great to give people who want to try and put some time into the game. But dont have the money or time to fully dedicate themselves to the game. But there is the thing that people will try to abuse this that kinda makes me worried. you are taking a bit risk CCP. But I shall trust in your judgement on this one. |
Drammie Askold
Saints Of Havoc Moose Federation
48
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:21:03 -
[214] - Quote
I am cautiously optimistic and I hope this leads to more people playing Eve.
What New Eden needed was Wise Immortal Philosopher Kings. What New Eden got was Sociopathic Immortal poo-flinging monkeys . . . vOv
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
593
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:21:13 -
[215] - Quote
Irregessa wrote:Restricting skill extractors shouldn't be an issue, since you need 5.5m sp on a character to use one to begin with. As long as the Alpha clones can't reach that level of sp, skill extractors are moot. An Alpha can reach more than 5.5m SP by spending a little bit of time as an Omega. Once over 5.5m SP, the Alpha could then train and extract Alpha skills over and over, so limiting Extractions is still needed.
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cyonida
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:21:16 -
[216] - Quote
Quote: Q: WonGÇÖt suicide ganking using free characters be a major problem?
A: We donGÇÖt think clone states will have much impact on suicide ganking or other harassment in high-sec. But, we will be paying very close attention and if this becomes an issue we can pursue options to improve the situation such as turning safetyGÇÖs on for Alphas in high sec or making changes to the allowed skills list.
Well, with Gallente Destroyer 4, Small Hybrid Turret 4, Weapon Upgrades 4; why would people not make an army of disposable suicide gank catalysts? When your sec status gets too low, toss them and make more.
I think this is going to be a huge problem. Suicide ganking in high sec is way too easy as it is.
The message I'm getting from CCP is this: don't fly a freighter, mining barge, or any kind of industrial ship in high sec. Suddenly high sec is now the most dangerous place to be. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3914
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:22:12 -
[217] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:You poor poor people don't understand what this means. You don't see the REAL CASUALTY of this terrible move by CCP. What is going to happen to all the "I Quit" posts? "I quit" from a game you pay 15 bucks a month for has really power to change the course of CCPs development direction (15 bucks is a lot of money in places like Zimbabwe and Borneo), but "I'm quitting this free to play game that I never paid for in the 1st place" just doesn't have the same implied threat power! Won't someone think of the (brain damaged, manipulative) children here???? They will just become "unsubbing" posts. Most are already anyway.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Aven Yassavi
Beyond New Frontier The Amish Mafia
3
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:22:32 -
[218] - Quote
So since a lot people buying plex to get skill injectors why not make them buy them directly for real money and get rid of the subcription. People may say that is pay to win but even a full skilled noob is not much better then a unskilled veteran! |
Dixegu Smith
Storm Technologies
5
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:24:15 -
[219] - Quote
The whole release looks very good, im really looking forward to it - most abuses seem to have been thought of and already eliminated in first place.
The unlimited time now enables newcomers to test eve without stress and get involved into corps & communities and i think this is a big big step for bringing eve more into the market. I love it.
But after reading very carefully and looking through your set of skills you make available i didnt seem to find a barrier for Industry toons.
Sure they are not as fast as a maxed out toon but they are able to research, copy & manufacture. Even if in small and slower scale than a normal industry player would.
Lets face it, it's EvE, people WILL do what is most efficent. And from what i see right now it is efficent to use free Alpha accounts for industry rather than one plexed account.
If this goes on the live server without a limitatation, a few people will start using Alpha accounts for it. Probably more than just a few, and this will trigger a wave of more and more industrialists jumping on that train because you can't compete with the prices of an Alpha account.
Sure, you can't produce everything because some stuff requires omega skills. Yet it will still cause this wave of "Alpha-Accounts creating low-tech stuff"".
It would be great to let newcomers see the sweet juice of industry aswell..so completly removing that isn't the right solution too. But I'm not here to offer a solution im only here to mention a problem that has to be mentioned sooner or later.
Cheers
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Threm
Heavy Rains Public-Enemy
13
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:24:18 -
[220] - Quote
Looking from above it is necessary to get EVE closer to the current market conditions. The proposal is a good balance not to hurt current players but hopefully drag new ones into it.
Basically it is just a never ending trial period with an overhauled skill restriction list.
Many complaints are about possible multi boxing on gankers and 10 miners. How is it possible to multibox 10 ventures without bannable software tools? And if, how long you will take it :) ... If you want to multibox so many low level chars without any forbidden and bannable software support, ok, but I would not think that is the general opinion.
Gankers are something else. Not really in the manner to multibox them (same argument above, it is already bannable) but in creating new ones. I like proposal to set them to green safety in highsec and would continue to yellow in lowsec and to red to anywhere else because otherwise you would restrict them to be in highsec which is too strict for real new players. But I dont know this is compromissed by the general reluctance of CCP to take significant measures against ganking at all.
To the login restriction.I would only go for a limit of one Alpha independent on the number of Omega log ins. In other words no two Alphas log in possible if you think that is critical but is possible to login an alpha parallel to the currently running Omegas. It is only annoying to log the Omegas off without impact on game play.
PS. You confused me with that statement in the beginning: "With this technology, clone manufacturers can now build and distribute clones which possess a base state, the Alpha state. They can be enhanced or otherwise altered to achieve other states, but the Alpha state will always exist underneath. The state of a given clone may affect its access to trained skills, its ability to train new ones, or the rate at which new skills are acquired." It confused with that player may produce clones (not the case), that the player have to enhance to other states (actually they just pay and there is only on other state or do u have plans for the variety of greek between alpha and omega? :)) and it will (not may) affect the skills.
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
342
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Posted - 2016.08.31 16:24:40 -
[221] - Quote
7. Discussion of real life religion and politics is prohibited.
Discussion of real life religion and politics is strictly prohibited on the EVE Online forums. Discussions of this nature often creates animosity between forum users due to real life political or military conflicts. CCP promotes the growth of a gaming community where equality is at the forefront. Nationalist, religious or political affiliations are not part of EVE Online, and should not be part of discussion on the EVE Online forums.
Post removed for above reason.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
159
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:25:38 -
[222] - Quote
Can Alphas use the forum? |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
34
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:26:27 -
[223] - Quote
Two questions I forgot:
*) now that we're going to have unlimited trials who can use Mining Frigates, Trade, Industry (thank god no PI any more), what is your stance again with Virtual Machines and VPN? Just to remind the masses. *) What about players who trained PI skills? Are they still able to use their pre-built colonies? Because the thing is, every person can already plant down one Command center on one planet, as Interplanetary consolidation allows for a total of SIX planets when fully skilled, not one. And it's one tiny command center, yeah. But still, if everything is prebuilt, do you have a system in place which determines what is the "first" colony, or will you select it at random?
>> Zappity: PI skills are not included in the alpha list in the devblog. You can still create 1 colony with a level 0 command center by default. Maybe enough to fool the code for pre-existing colonies.
>> Zifrian: Ganking. you gotta nip this in the bud now. I say lock them into green agression. You simply can't attack someone without them aggressions you first. That's an idea worth pondering, but it also impedes the sandbox spirit so I doubt they'll be going there. I don't want to cover the subject of gankers circumventing timers with just a simple relog to a large selection of trial accounts, because they've could have done that already if they wanted and just re-train, if that even was worth while. Which I doubt. Now it would be just more of a convenience as the retraining falls flat. But to be honest, gankers aren't the problem. Uninformed players are what give them targets. Note, I do not endorse or condemn ganking. If it happens, then usually only because someone made themselves a target, unwilling or not.
>> Reinhardt Kreiss: F2P... it's here. An MMO switching to F2P indicates its decline and departure from a long term commitment to a short term cash grab. Wrong. There are games out there who only survived this long because of the move to F2P. Many players have loose wallets and many microtransactions are just that. They appear micro per payment, but many don't actually see that adding up. Hell just look at what people pay for starbucks and cigarettes and booze.
>> JTK Fotheringham: Serious question - how will "Alpha" accounts be treated in purges? Say an alpha account never subscribes, or only subs once - never to generate cash again. Will it be purged at some point in the future?[/quote] Was there ever a purge? I only remember they freed up names and put "Faction Citizen #######" instead. I still have a link to my original trial character from end of 2006. It's just the name that is different.
>> Valterra Craven]In alpha states I don't think you should be able to set up sell orders at all. If your only outlook is to punish actual new players simply because alts of veterans could be used to gain a marginally small advantage (as idle time is still a thing), then they shouldn't have come up with a skill system like this, plain and simple. Also, what you talk about is utter nonsense. People could have (and maybe have?) done that with regular trials anyway. So what is the problem again? The real world difference is nil.
>> Elenahina: Without the cost of PLEX to consider, I can undercut my competition and flood the market, further depressing prices on these goods. How much below reprocessing value are you aiming to go for? Because this is what it will come down to. It's not about having no competition or undercutting everyone, it's about having the same prices everywhere then. Look at other games with open item or currency exchanges like that. If enough players access it, the price levels itself to the equilibrium. The natural selection of those who are persistent enough over the ones who aren't is what has kept the eve economy going, and will let it continue after these changes. This doesn't mean your concerns are invalid. They are valid. How much impact this will be having is another question entirely. Because someone is going to get tired eventually of trying to run all the things. Knowing when to cut branches of a tree to help it grow better is important to not kill it by cutting too much.
>> Valterra Craven: Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you? People don't leave because they can't pay for it. People just decide not to pay any more because they deem the investment not worth. If they still can be in the 3D chat simulator despite not paying, then by all means, let them. In addition to this, every player who remains in the game, is a possible compulsive buyer for microtransactions. Each player is still a variable in possible interactions and content creation. Plus, you are much likely to resub if you're still IN the game with all the fruit dangling just out of your reach, than when you made the final quit. In terms of marketing, it's a solid idea. Let's just try to keep the abuse either minimalistic, and/or paint the stars with the blood of dime and a dozen additional players who just want to hassle with their inferior skills.
>> Darkwing Fiftytwo: What about limiting system access to high-sec or high/lo-sec?? Is that a good or bad idea? Outrageously horrendous idea. If you get teased with massive fleet battles and enter the game due to this premise, and then realize you can't go there until you pay? Instant turnoff, marketing suicide. The best way to get new players to enjoy the fighting side of eve is to put them as soon as possible into this desired direction.
Drazz's funny moment wrote:Account based skills. Let's start with "Prioritized Biomassing" - each level of this skill reduces the time to biomass your character by 5 hours. Inb4 Advanced prioritized biomassing |
Black Canary Jnr
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
144
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:26:46 -
[224] - Quote
Talking about this in corp everyone is positive on it.
One request; Ensure 'Alpha clones' follow the same procedures as current Trial accounts, ie. You cannot have a trial and a subbed account online at the same time, or 2 trial accounts. Reasoning is that people will abuse the functionality with throw away scouts for mains, and fears of people just making several throwaway accounts to multibox gank/ PVP. By not changing anything it can't be broke further and i have not seen any issues with the way it is currently run.
Great change, looking forward to seeing how it plays out. |
Aven Yassavi
Beyond New Frontier The Amish Mafia
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:26:51 -
[225] - Quote
Gneeznow wrote:Can Alphas use the forum?
I am pretty sure yes, since they have an account |
Maetel Lithium
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:27:05 -
[226] - Quote
There is so much to think about here.
Firstly, I would allow SOME multi-boxing. Max it out at 3-5 Alpha accounts and you will get some nice support and scout fleets going, but not so much as to threaten a propperly tanked mining barge.
This is going to impact faction warfare and nullsec fleets significantly. And it will make recon tactics ridiculous. I can see myself setting up a bucket full of alts that just camp enemy systems. Nullbears will never mine again.
I am aslo considering what this will mean for spais. I could have tons of free accounts I could join and participate in almost every major alliance for a year and no one would be the wiser.
I overall look forward to this change, but CCP will need more moderators andGMS. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
441
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:27:24 -
[227] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Irregessa wrote:Restricting skill extractors shouldn't be an issue, since you need 5.5m sp on a character to use one to begin with. As long as the Alpha clones can't reach that level of sp, skill extractors are moot. An Alpha can reach more than 5.5m SP by spending a little bit of time as an Omega. Once over 5.5m SP, the Alpha could then train and extract Alpha skills over and over, so limiting Extractions is still needed. So you extract those 500k SP and the training is paused again, cause you are back to 5M. Would you plex it again just to extract another 500k? Doesn't sound viable at all. Also, they said they would limit the Alpha skills so you can't extract them.
The real issue with these things is still the multiboxing issue. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17843
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:28:42 -
[228] - Quote
Harlei Quinn wrote:With this update I want a full refund. across all my accounts. for unused gametime. Thanks. Bahaha.
Cheers mate, I've been extremely apprehensive reading this thread thus far but that cheered me up.
=]|[=
|
Verse Askold
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
9
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:28:47 -
[229] - Quote
i think that is a good thing, brings new blood into eve and old blood back who just want to taste blood again for free and i really think that a lot more of the newbros will stay after they invested some time to get up to 5mill SP and subscribe
Alpha corps will be a thing for sure, i already see corps coming like Alpha-Testies, Pandemic Alpha Squad or Alphaswarm ;)
and i agree that there should definitely be a reduction for the logon of alphas to 1 per client otherwise this will be abused as mentioned in a lot of posts before
i would go even further and introduce an alpha, a gamma and an omega clone the gamma would be something like half the subscription(1plex for 2months) and therefore you activate all the other races(or 1more, idk) and T2 ships up to T2 cruisers + all modules up to and including medium size but this would probably cost ccp too much money in the end through people not flying anything bigger than cruisers just go to gamma clones
but all in all this is a good idea imho |
Niraad Khaaz
Un4seen Development Sev3rance
16
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:30:43 -
[230] - Quote
I like it CCP! It will take some tweaking to make sure that "Alpha abuse" is minimized as much as possible but overall it's solid. The more newbros/gals in the game the better. Of course when the "Alpha Alliance" sweeps through New Eden destroying all in it's path I might feel differently. |
|
Colonel Ingus
Fusion Death Inc. Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:32:28 -
[231] - Quote
So trial accounts are no longer time limited? Big deal.
Call them trial accounts.
Restrict ONE "alpha" / trial account per IP
Restrict to Yellow safety - (prevent them from aggressing / griefing in empire)
If you're trying to LURE new subscribers, you want them to be able to explore gameplay, but not be stuck with consequences of skill selection, or experience a loss that was the totality of their assets in game. (how many folks invested skills into industry, mining, only to leave that all behind for glorious null sec, or got scared to go to null because they lost their first ship not knowing the mechanics of the game)?
Why not grant them skills to fly ALL racial cruisers / below, and institute a redemption system where you provide a properly fitted ship, which can be "traded" for another flavor. Try it before you buy it. No freebies / just a loan (similar to SRP) Think of it as basic fitting 101 - you have latitude to create a VERY rich system to introduce new players to properly fitted (and skilled) ships for a specific role, and the opportunity to learn about fitting / insuring / etc.
ALLOW them to shift accumulated skills towards that specific ship / role, and provide the appropriate fitted ship. -try mining -try industry -try PVE -try PVP -try logistics -try ganging /griefing (but not in empire)
Do all of this without monetizing the system, prevent an unbalanced gank/grief/economy crushing change, and provide an EASY way to get NEW folks into EVE - WIN.
Find a way to get those new guys to join the EVE community AND get them to subscribe - Sustainable CCP Development for years to come. |
Xenuria
1094
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:33:40 -
[232] - Quote
This is going to change everything.
CSM 11 Candidate
|
Brodit
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
12
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:33:53 -
[233] - Quote
Okay. I'm down with the f2p aspect of this but your application of clone types is short sighted.
I have 6 chars spread over 2 accounts, and because I like to multi-box occasionally I have spent the last few years giving the alts some useful skills. Cloaking/Mining/Scanning/Combat and PI (I notice that alphas cannot do PI) They have been contributing in their own way to this game, for some, as long as 10 years. Okay they are not overwhelmed with skill points ranging between 450k to 30M sps but your proposal effectively neuters them. The Primary chars will be the Omega chars by default, and the alts on each account will become Alphas. No cloaking or PI and limited everything else. Cheers.
I'm not even sure there is a work around. If alt A wants to initiate PI, do I have to change them to omega clone then set the PI. If I then log on alt B make them Omega, will it halt the PI of alt A.
If your going down this route, I want a 3rd clone state. If an account is active (plex/sub'd) *Omega and Theta clones are in effect. If an account is inactive (no plex/sub'd) clones are alpha.
Revised States
Omega clone. Active skill training. All Skills. Theta clone. No skill training. All Skills. Alpha clone. Reduced skill training. Reduced skills.
That is all. |
Lunarstorm95
Iron Star Industries
30
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:35:17 -
[234] - Quote
I cant help but feel CCP is willing to drive the last nail in the coffin for the slightest chance to appeal to even the smallest amount of casual gamers that continuously look over eve.
CCP has been trying to appear to all the new bros and killing its experienced player base in the process. And as a result not pulling in enough players to make up for those who are leaving.
Im not gana sit here and type up that this is dumb or bad ect ect. But i will say the experienced player base have been able to tell in advance what kind of aftermath would come out of these past few patches with scary precision. And I don't know to many who have high hopes for this new f2p system.
These is much better ways to pull in players then going this f2p system
The big fights of eve past is what drew people in. News exposure, media, eve in its glory. Without big fights anymore less people are hearing about the game. This isn't what eve needs. Being unlike any other MMO is what people love about the game. Not just a space skinned run of the mill MMO
GÇ£You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.GÇ¥
GÇò Robert A. Heinlein
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
GÇò Confucius-á
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Borat Guereen
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:35:28 -
[235] - Quote
This new development embraces openly the nature of the game of alts that is EVE. It opens up alts to everyone, rather than keeping it limited to the richest players that can PLEX multiple accounts. It also encourages new players to get a better taste of the game, for a longer period than the current trials. And this is good.
Here are a few points I have read that I support. - Alphas should not be able to post in forums or in local. - Alphas should always have their safety setting set to enabled. - Alphas should not be allowed to assign drones.
At the same time the game is in a state where the hidden influences of anonymous alts and the lack of loyalties for a cause in-game create disruptive and artificial internal conflicts, limit fleets engagements, encourages risk aversion, create a real ceiling to what newer groups of players can accomplish and break the risk versus reward model of Eve, as the acts of betrayal, theft or scam, that are also a staple of Eve, are risk free in a game where alts remain anonymous.
When a player can be in FW with different alts in each faction at the same time, or in all the major alliances with various alts, what is the point when players are encouraged to build something with time and efforts? Why does it matter fighting for Caldari were I can run Plexes in the Gallente faction too? Why bother defending sovereignty when I can mine both in PLooNS territories, or Test territories? I can be running a charity with a trustworthy toon, or a third party tool that requires full API data and use the intel gathered in so doing to destroy my opponents without them having any way to know better, as the game protects my alts' anonymity.
Betrayals, scams and theft hidden behind alts that remain anonymous do not put the player that engineer those at any risk for their other assets. It is less dangerous to create an alt and go get recruited by an enemy faction, than undocking a ship. Players' rep is not at risk, and now that free alts will appear, everyone can have a finger in all the pies, all the time. Where will that lead us?
So it could be the time to encourage making choices made in-game by players more meaningful:
- Introduce a EULA change that requires players to link all their alts by "association", Alpha and Omega, together.
- Make it so that those clones that are tied together under that "association" can benefit from one subscription/PLEX to use the skills at whatever levels they are currently at. So to go beyond the alpha stage for each account, you still need to spend plex or subscrpition per account, as announced today, but once each toon is at the skill level you want them to be, one subscription will maintain whatever number of accounts you fancy, but all the toons of these accounts will be publicly linked to each others.
- Remove the character bazaar and ban all accounts that change ownership thereafter.
Make a player's action matter for all of his or her associated alt's, so that reps can be built, and scaming, betrayal and thefts are not risk free anymore. If you use an alt as a cloaky alt, the other players will know who are your other toons and can get back at you. If you apply with one toon to a corp, they can see the spread of your toons and decide if you are a good fit or not for them. If you betray, scam or steal, you build a rep that can be legendary, but have to think about the consequences for all your toons.
imho, anonymous alts do not keep Eve edgy. It is risk free disruption in a game focused on building assets that matter. Anonymous alts are keeping Eve down.
Join our Minarchist Revolution!
|
Lonan O'Labhradha
Dystopian Heaven Circle-Of-Two
18
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:35:32 -
[236] - Quote
Exploits:
Gank City:
I can make n Ganking toons which I can use to camp any gate I like. My friends and I can participate in Perimter gate ganking indefinitely.
Lag Squad:
I can create a fleet of toons of any size and use them to create TiDi and grid lag in any system. It might be hard to prove that I created them deliberately to create lag, because I fired their feeble guns once or twice.
Eye of God:
I can put a permanent pod clone in every system with a friendly station and use them to watch the system and even gates. I could put one pod on each gate if I wanted and they just respawn at the nearest station. |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
34
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:36:12 -
[237] - Quote
Niraad Khaaz wrote: Of course when the "Alpha Alliance" sweeps through New Eden destroying all in it's path I might feel differently. You know, this is something I would be looking forward to. Because they're skill limited and restricted to the things they can use. It might turn the tables on the n+1 "rule". Playing 8 vs. zerg would be fun again. Would be nice to have that happen more often. |
Niraad Khaaz
Un4seen Development Sev3rance
17
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:36:35 -
[238] - Quote
Brodit wrote:Okay. I'm down with the f2p aspect of this but your application of clone types is short sighted.
I have 6 chars spread over 2 accounts, and because I like to multi-box occasionally I have spent the last few years giving the alts some useful skills. Cloaking/Mining/Scanning/Combat and PI (I notice that alphas cannot do PI) They have been contributing in their own way to this game, for some, as long as 10 years. Okay they are not overwhelmed with skill points ranging between 450k to 30M sps but your proposal effectively neuters them. The Primary chars will be the Omega chars by default, and the alts on each account will become Alphas. No cloaking or PI and limited everything else. Cheers.
I'm not even sure there is a work around. If alt A wants to initiate PI, do I have to change them to omega clone then set the PI. If I then log on alt B make them Omega, will it halt the PI of alt A.
If your going down this route, I want a 3rd clone state. If an account is active (plex/sub'd) *Omega and Theta clones are in effect. If an account is inactive (no plex/sub'd) clones are alpha.
Revised States
Omega clone. Active skill training. All Skills. Theta clone. No skill training. All Skills. Alpha clone. Reduced skill training. Reduced skills.
That is all.
Brodit, All clones on an Omega account are omegas |
Lugia3
Tri-gun Escalating Entropy
1514
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:36:49 -
[239] - Quote
I hope CCP reconsiders locking Alpha Clones into a single race.
"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
|
Kanzero
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
58
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:37:39 -
[240] - Quote
Not as many tears as I expected. Good.
I don't see anything inherently wrong with the idea. It will bring new blood to the game and that is always welcomed. |
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
75
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:37:41 -
[241] - Quote
Here's another one. Wardec Cost... Will these type of accounts mod that?
I have been idle quite a lot over the past few years, but my understanding of it at the moment is that its partially based on the size "in active accounts" of your corp/alliance.
Does this mean 10,000 alphas could be used to make that one man corp really expensive to wardec? :)...
I mean, a fix would be that alphas need (x) hours of play per week/month to be considered "Active". |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
441
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:39:32 -
[242] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:This is going to change everything. Shut the **** up Xenuria. Go back to your cave.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Mysteriala
HC - ChickenSandwich Aporkalypse Now
2
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:40:10 -
[243] - Quote
Loving this decision, finally I can yell at all my friends whenever I need some extra tackle frigs for fleet.
I would like to see a little more diversification between the factions in minor ways, just to show that we want newer players to specialize, and also to give me a reason to train a minimum of 4 alpha accounts, one of each faction :)
Free newbie alts for everyone! I love it! |
Rapala Armiron
Arton Yachting and Angling Club Domain Research and Mining Inst.
32
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:40:30 -
[244] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP?
They are thinking that they are out of ideas. They tried attracting casuals by making eve a more friendly place and that didnt work. They tried dumbing down the game and that didnt work. They forgot what made eve good in the first place, abandoning their base in favor of chasing after wow players. Nothing has worked. They are at the end of the rope. So like all mmo dev's who are out of ideas they throw in the towel and go ftp. Ofc this wont work. FTP attracts casuals - but eve is built around hardcore players - the casuals will spike eve's player count in the short term - but it wont last. It never does. The casuals being casuals they will fade away. A year from now eve will be in a worse place then it is today.
Well it was a good run.
|
Mina Askold
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:42:54 -
[245] - Quote
So gankers will be a problem I don't see how they (CCP) thinks it won't......."We will be watching closely" yea ok .......
This isnt much more than a limited trial like other games that have a "free" to lvl X......Hope this works but I see it being more of an issue than a good thing.....Pick one ccp free or Sub but this half assed in the middle isnt a good idea......but we will see. In the past any time they have made a change like this and think the abuse won't be that bad they always eat their words.
Hope it works |
Egsise
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:43:13 -
[246] - Quote
What do we have now?
A 30 day trial and with buddy invite which everyone uses it's 30day trial + 60day gametime and you can do ANYTHING.
Nerf that to T1 frigs and modules that lasts for the rest of their lives. Don't let the noobs do any of the cool stuff unless they pay the sub.
Yes I've given my friends a plex what I got from buddy invite when they paid the sub. |
Captain Highfield
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:43:22 -
[247] - Quote
I support this idea on the fact that it extends a person's experience of the game, longer than the two/three weeks being a "trial account". |
Kronos
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:45:24 -
[248] - Quote
OK im kinda worried for the update, maybe it would be good but I can see Jita being massively over camped.
I think Alpha Clones should have the safety button fixed so cannot be changed. That way they cannot gank, they cannot take loot that is not theirs. T2 Technology cannot and should not be allowed to be used. Cynos cannot be used. No Mining Bardges can be used.
It kinda reminds me when WoW started doing free-to-play upto max lvl10 ior 25.
I understand the need for this, but why not just turn off the 30 day trial and have non expire trial accounts, are they not very limited as to what can/cannot be used ? Maybe odd skills tweeked here ?
Trouble is this update is going ahead wether we want it or not, Same thing happened with the Store selling skins and stuff. Prices came down but it still went ahead. The skill injectors many didnt like but still it went in to the game. |
Bloodoff
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:49:19 -
[249] - Quote
Someone might have asked already but does it mean CCP will reimburse 5m SP to every one of us (Omega Master Race) since getting to that level of 5m SP is gonna be free? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14560
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:51:03 -
[250] - Quote
Rapala Armiron wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP?
They are thinking that they are out of ideas. They tried attracting casuals by making eve a more friendly place and that didnt work. They tried dumbing down the game and that didnt work. They forgot what made eve good in the first place, abandoning their base in favor of chasing after wow players. Nothing has worked. They are at the end of the rope. So like all mmo dev's who are out of ideas they throw in the towel and go ftp. Ofc this wont work. FTP attracts casuals - but eve is built around hardcore players - the casuals will spike eve's player count in the short term - but it wont last. It never does. The casuals being casuals they will fade away. A year from now eve will be in a worse place then it is today. Well it was a good run.
EVE isn't over, this kind of thing , even if we don't like it that much, isn't enough to destroy the game. But you are right in that it is the latest in a long line of moves aimed at bringing in new players that is again likely to fail because it doesn't address the core issues that keep people out of EVE:
Of the top of my head those issues are:
-Space setting (most people want elves and crap)
-non-consensual pvp (most mmo players despise this)
-The way ships are "flown" (of to Massively OP and read the comments, you will see this come up time and again)
-Lack of Avatars for people to "identify with
-Permanent loss of items/"death penalty"
-Sandbox nature of the game (most gamers want to experience a story, not make one)
And I'm sure there are more. The real problem is that the EVE community is mostly made up of ANTI-MMO players who like that EVE isn't like the others with all the leveling and sharding and pvp flags and instancing and safe cities and whatnot.
A game like EVE is forever going to be a niche that mostly attracts non-mainstream folks, and while it's natural for any business to try to squeeze every dime they can out of a property, there is simply a limit on how far that can go. That's true of everything, not just EVE.
My prediction is it doesn't destroy everything but it ends up like "opportunities" and the new NPE and such things: in the end it will have little to no positive or negative effect.
|
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ArmyOfMe
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
607
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:51:10 -
[251] - Quote
Bloodoff wrote:Someone might have asked already but does it mean CCP will reimburse 5m SP to every one of us (Omega Master Race) since getting to that level of 5m SP is gonna be free? i wouldnt mind that Doomsday operation straight to 5, even tho i will never fly one
ArmyOfMe wrote:
1) If you get bumped then that webber wont do anything.
baltec1 wrote:
We use the exact same tactic for titans and they enter warp instantly.
|
FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
124
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:53:30 -
[252] - Quote
SERIOUS QUESTION ABOUT IMPLEMENTATION HERE
Sorry about the caps and whatnot, but I do have what I think is a genuine question: Will faction/DEDspace modules be allowed for Alpha Clones?
This is relevant because lower skill requirements are one of the major perks for these modules. In fact in some cases they are otherwise Identical to T2.
For example a Corelum C-type Energized Membrane requires only hull upgrades III to fit, where as the T2 version of it requires Hull upgrades V, which is beyond what an Alpha clone can train. Personally I think they should be able to use them. It leaves a lot more options open, but at sharply increased cost which makes things interesting.
Also letting somebody use more than a single Alpha clone account from one computer, which many many other people have pointed out is a TERRIBLE idea, is in fact a terrible idea. Don't let it happen.
Other than that I'm cautiously optimistic. This looks like a change that could keep a lot of people in the game who enjoyed playing but didn't have time to get their $15 worth every month. Be flexible if problems pop up an I think it coudl |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15117
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:56:31 -
[253] - Quote
Hordes of multiboxed Alphas everywhere.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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motie one
Secret Passage
106
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:57:29 -
[254] - Quote
Firstly, really nice idea, the core reasoning is good for EVE. I am sure you will be able to adapt and amend to avoid the exploits, and inbalances that will occur, and modify as required, it will get a lot of interest going, either way.
One suggestion, I understand the logic to limit to a single race for weapons systems, but it might be wise in conjunction with this, to eliminate base racial training on cruisers and below, and introduce new skills. Ie Amarr destroyer skill gets replaced with destroyer skill.
(Non race) Cruiser, destroyer and frigate. Thereby Opening up a choice for alphas.
Together with these for access to more advanced vessels.
racial Cruiser specialisation, racial destroyer specialisation and racial frigate specialisation. Only trainable on Omegas, requires ship skill to IV.
This would be a lot cleaner, clearer, and manageable. |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
317
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:59:29 -
[255] - Quote
Im honestly speechless. This is going to completely change Eve and im not so sure that its going to make it better. Going F2P has never been a good thing for any game ive ever played. Its always ended with the game being flooded with a year or two by all the trash that us paying Eve players pay to keep out of our game.
And thats what happens. You get a bunch of kids and trash and the people that actually pay to play the game get sick of dealing with them and just stop playing. Then the game tanks because all the paying players quit and the free players suck up everything and never invest money in the game.
This is a social game and WHO you play with is as important to most people here as what you are playing. If the social aspect of this game becomes like F2P games, ive played in the past, i likely wont stick around. I dont want to try to relax in the middle of Daycare Online. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2951
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:01:52 -
[256] - Quote
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:What about limiting system access to high-sec or high/lo-sec?? Is that a good or bad idea? Good idea. Limit them to low and null.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Jed Airtech
Australian Belt Strippers Apocalypse Now.
2
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:02:43 -
[257] - Quote
Can we train alpha skills on alts on accounts with an active subscription but who do not have an active training queue? |
motie one
Secret Passage
106
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:03:07 -
[258] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Im honestly speechless. This is going to completely change Eve and im not so sure that its going to make it better. Going F2P has never been a good thing for any game ive ever played. Its always ended with the game being flooded with a year or two by all the trash that us paying Eve players pay to keep out of our game.
And thats what happens. You get a bunch of kids and trash and the people that actually pay to play the game get sick of dealing with them and just stop playing. Then the game tanks because all the paying players quit and the free players suck up everything and never invest money in the game.
This is a social game and WHO you play with is as important to most people here as what you are playing. If the social aspect of this game becomes like F2P games, ive played in the past, i likely wont stick around. I dont want to try to relax in the middle of Daycare Online.
I think your worries are valid, but I do not believe it will be as bad as you fear.
At the end of the day, we spend our time talking to our corp and alliance members, that will not change, and many corps will not accept these players for membership.
EVE is full of great players and people, and also full of complete idiots. Nothing will change, we just choose who we talk to. |
Reinhardt Kreiss
29
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:03:11 -
[259] - Quote
Rapala Armiron wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP?
They are thinking that they are out of ideas. They tried attracting casuals by making eve a more friendly place and that didnt work. They tried dumbing down the game and that didnt work. They forgot what made eve good in the first place, abandoning their base in favor of chasing after wow players. Nothing has worked. They are at the end of the rope. So like all mmo dev's who are out of ideas they throw in the towel and go ftp. Ofc this wont work. FTP attracts casuals - but eve is built around hardcore players - the casuals will spike eve's player count in the short term - but it wont last. It never does. The casuals being casuals they will fade away. A year from now eve will be in a worse place then it is today. Free to play is the death knell for games. What I dont understand is why they feel they will be different then every other mmo that went ftp as a last desperate move before going belly up? This model doesnt even make sense - ftp is built around whales - this model ignores whales and micro transactions and instead its built around making the gaming experience inconvenient for its alphas e.g. they cant do this and they cant do that without purchasing a full account. But how are they going to convince casuals that what they are missing out on is so much better then what they are getting for free that it is worth spending 15$ a month for? Casuals already could try out the game on a trial account - if that trial account wasnt enough to convince a causal to subscribe how is giving them a permanent trial account for ever going to change that? CCP continues to burn its bridges to its core players. When this doesnt work will there be any going back? Well it was a good run.
Quoting for emphasis.
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Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:05:18 -
[260] - Quote
Brodit wrote:Okay. I'm down with the f2p aspect of this but your application of clone types is short sighted.
I have 6 chars spread over 2 accounts, and because I like to multi-box occasionally I have spent the last few years giving the alts some useful skills. Cloaking/Mining/Scanning/Combat and PI (I notice that alphas cannot do PI) They have been contributing in their own way to this game, for some, as long as 10 years. Okay they are not overwhelmed with skill points ranging between 450k to 30M sps but your proposal effectively neuters them. The Primary chars will be the Omega chars by default, and the alts on each account will become Alphas. No cloaking or PI and limited everything else. Cheers.
I'm not even sure there is a work around. If alt A wants to initiate PI, do I have to change them to omega clone then set the PI. If I then log on alt B make them Omega, will it halt the PI of alt A.
If your going down this route, I want a 3rd clone state. If an account is active (plex/sub'd) *Omega and Theta clones are in effect. If an account is inactive (no plex/sub'd) clones are alpha.
Revised States
Omega clone. Active skill training. All Skills. Theta clone. No skill training. All Skills. Alpha clone. Reduced skill training. Reduced skills.
That is all.
If your account is subbed...every character on it is Omega, so 2 accs subbed, 6 Omegas..Try to keep up ;)
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7826
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:05:52 -
[261] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Im honestly speechless. This is going to completely change Eve and im not so sure that its going to make it better. Going F2P has never been a good thing for any game ive ever played. Its always ended with the game being flooded with a year or two by all the trash that us paying Eve players pay to keep out of our game.
And thats what happens. You get a bunch of kids and trash and the people that actually pay to play the game get sick of dealing with them and just stop playing. Then the game tanks because all the paying players quit and the free players suck up everything and never invest money in the game.
This is a social game and WHO you play with is as important to most people here as what you are playing. If the social aspect of this game becomes like F2P games, ive played in the past, i likely wont stick around. I dont want to try to relax in the middle of Daycare Online.
There's an exception: SWTOR. F2P made it playable, because it was essentially DOA - a casual arcade MMO dressed up as a 'WoW-killer'. It's really only worth subscribing to it if you can accept it and enjoy it for what it is. I subscribe, despite the fact that giving EA money in any form makes me sick to my stomach, but the fact is I can't deny enjoying the game for what it is, and it really is a fun little casual themepark experience. That being said, this is not what EVE is. EVE was meant to be the heavy metal to SWTOR's pop-rock. EVE going F2P is like Linkin Park going electronica tbh.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Assaj Ventress
Deliveries on Tuesday
8
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:07:11 -
[262] - Quote
Well, here's to more high-sec ganking catalysts |
Ghenghis Kralj
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
129
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:08:41 -
[263] - Quote
I think this is a great, great step in the right direction for EVE. My feedback is you should consider limiting actions rather than SP limits. Let free accounts participate in most if not all pvp and early pve content. Let those free accounts even skill up more if they use their plex. After their paid period is over, allow those skills to be used in free account mode; however, limit ISK making and certain pvp actions to keep things in check.
For example Things free accounts can do: 1. Train up to the limit you set out 2. Undock in mining frigates 3. Activate lower end mining modules 4. Accept and complete lower end missions 5. Get reduced ISK from ratting
Things paid accounts can do 1. Cyno 2. Activate cloak 3. DD or maybe just caps in general. Alternatively, create list of ships that only paid accounts could use to keep things in check. Maybe logi becomes a problem? Ok, only paid accounts can undock and use t2 logi. 4. Significant money making activities (higher level missions, strip mining, gas huffing, etc.) 5. Skill extraction
I think this is the direction we need to go in to make a hybrid system work for everybody. |
Rapala Armiron
Arton Yachting and Angling Club Domain Research and Mining Inst.
36
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:10:47 -
[264] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Rapala Armiron wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP?
They are thinking that they are out of ideas. They tried attracting casuals by making eve a more friendly place and that didnt work. They tried dumbing down the game and that didnt work. They forgot what made eve good in the first place, abandoning their base in favor of chasing after wow players. Nothing has worked. They are at the end of the rope. So like all mmo dev's who are out of ideas they throw in the towel and go ftp. Ofc this wont work. FTP attracts casuals - but eve is built around hardcore players - the casuals will spike eve's player count in the short term - but it wont last. It never does. The casuals being casuals they will fade away. A year from now eve will be in a worse place then it is today. Well it was a good run. EVE isn't over, this kind of thing , even if we don't like it that much, isn't enough to destroy the game. But you are right in that it is the latest in a long line of moves aimed at bringing in new players that is again likely to fail because it doesn't address the core issues that keep people out of EVE: Of the top of my head those issues are: -Space setting (most people want elves and crap) -non-consensual pvp (most mmo players despise this) -The way ships are "flown" (of to Massively OP and read the comments, you will see this come up time and again) -Lack of Avatars for people to "identify with -Permanent loss of items/"death penalty" -Sandbox nature of the game (most gamers want to experience a story, not make one) And I'm sure there are more. The real problem is that the EVE community is mostly made up of ANTI-MMO players who like that EVE isn't like the others with all the leveling and sharding and pvp flags and instancing and safe cities and whatnot. A game like EVE is forever going to be a niche that mostly attracts non-mainstream folks, and while it's natural for any business to try to squeeze every dime they can out of a property, there is simply a limit on how far that can go. That's true of everything, not just EVE. My prediction is it doesn't destroy everything but it ends up like "opportunities" and the new NPE and such things: in the end it will have little to no positive or negative effect.
I agree that this wont work because ftp doesnt work. But list of reasons why people dont play eve is flat wrong. Eve is a niche game that catered to hardcore players. It was counter programming to games like wow. When eve embraced its hardcore status it thrived. The more articles that appeared in the news about big fights, assassinations and corp thefts, the more eve grew.
Eve only went off the rails when CCP started chasing casuals. Just as an example - when I first started playing there was a pretty good chance that someone would haze you in a starting player system - they would put up a can saying something like "tactical supplies" waiting for you to take it and when you did they would blap you. Sure it was not sporting - but it gave players a taste of the true eve - while those that didnt like it left, others, htfu and figured out how to survive - those survivors became long term players. Now, ccp has made it so the starter zones are safe bubbles divorced from the real rules of eve. So a starting player does not get to experience being ganked until later in his career - so instead of losing an ibis in a starter zone they loss a faction bs which they bought with plex in a lvl4 mission system. Since they hadnt been hazed early in their career and no one told them about pvp in their tutorial new player experience - they had no idea that they could be ganked and when they lose that faction bs they rage and maybe quit. By making eve starter systems more safe and friendly - all ccp did was make the lessons harder to swallow in the long run.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2774
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:10:59 -
[265] - Quote
I have a question regarding scalabillity of multi-boxing alpha accounts - specifically, how you plan to address it? Two examples will illustrate the issue concisely:
1) I'm in a medium fac war plex on my omega main, say in a Gila. I also have 4 alpha accounts with me in tech 1 fitted Griffins/Blackbirds. Individually, these low skilled tech 1 ewar alts are pretty ******, but taken together they can be quite oppressive - especially against solo roamers. Would this not lead to a fairly cancerous meta where everyone is packing an essentially free backup fleet of ewar/logi for their mains?
2) With regards to ratting - Alphas are allowed to use ships up to and including cruisers. A T1 vexor with 5M SP can easily put out 200-300 dps if not more. What's to stop me from running sanctums/havens with 20 of these T1 vexors? The drones will auto target rats, 20 vexors will have no issues tanking any anom, and the running costs of each alpha account are essentially zero. |
Debbie Jellinsky
Probe Launcher Offline
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:11:06 -
[266] - Quote
Boy, you thought the trade hub locals were a **** show before... we'll see endless new scammers, ads, junk links - who knows what else. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2951
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:11:19 -
[267] - Quote
Lugia3 wrote:I hope CCP reconsiders locking Alpha Clones into a single race. I quite like it. It gives some meaning (albeit short-lived if you upgrade) to race selection. It also gives the new player another reason to subscribe.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3565
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:11:26 -
[268] - Quote
omega clone master race!
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Atrum Veneficus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
113
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:12:42 -
[269] - Quote
This is a great idea and I can already see several potential uses for the alpha clones.
I would have one feature request however:
Much like Dust players were visually distinct in local, can we have some kind of similar visual cue to recognize alpha clone players? We don't necessarily have to go to the striking visual extremes of Dust players, a simple icon or badge would suffice. A scarlet letter A perhaps, or a six sided star would do nicely.
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
617
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:13:01 -
[270] - Quote
For the folks saying F2P won't actually help new players, I disagree.
I work with new players a lot, and one of the common concerns I (and others) have had is that, with the current 14- / 21-day trials, new players just don't have the ability to become invested in the game. That isn't enough time to socialize with people and get to know them while also learning about a game that's unlike any other they've ever played. Once their trial has ended, most people aren't going to continue looking into a game that they've already experienced.
EVE is a huge game and it has many, many facets to it. For many new players, however, those facets largely stop at mining in highsec. They aren't around long enough to learn more about what's available in the game, and with a lack of emphasis on socializing and often staying in the same new-player systems, they lose out on a lot of interaction with vets who could talk to them about the deeper topics.
How many people are likely to stick around after the trial period if they have to pay $15 / month to mine in a Venture in highsec? Not too many. Extended trials, or even this F2P method, would allow them to stick around longer, giving them a much higher chance of encountering vets who can help them or at the very least learning more about what EVE has to offer.
If done right, this has a chance to have a huge impact on improving the lives of new players, if only because it gives them a chance to actually experience more of EVE without making them pay to learn the basics. More time in the game means more chances to meet others and to socialize, which itself will lead to more people sticking around. EVE is a fun game when played with others, but can be awful when playing solo. This, hopefully, can help alleviate the tight time constraint to overload them in such a short window of time.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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George Svipul
FAST L0VE
0
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:13:42 -
[271] - Quote
Great move CCP i genuinly think it is :) Ive been playing for 8 years and will continue to subscribe both accounts but this will freshen the game up , a game held tto ransom by bitter vets goes no where !!
Also add walking in stations :)) |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15118
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:14:50 -
[272] - Quote
I dont think it will end well.
CCP, stop until it will be too late. You will not gain money on this.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
594
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:15:35 -
[273] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Irregessa wrote:Restricting skill extractors shouldn't be an issue, since you need 5.5m sp on a character to use one to begin with. As long as the Alpha clones can't reach that level of sp, skill extractors are moot. An Alpha can reach more than 5.5m SP by spending a little bit of time as an Omega. Once over 5.5m SP, the Alpha could then train and extract Alpha skills over and over, so limiting Extractions is still needed. So you extract those 500k SP and the training is paused again, cause you are back to 5M. Would you plex it again just to extract another 500k? Doesn't sound viable at all. I'm assuming the 5m SP limit is a result of the skill limits, not a hard cap on SP that can be trained.
Quote:The real issue with these things is still the multiboxing issue. Agreed. |
IChooseYou
Tradors'R'us
9
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:15:48 -
[274] - Quote
CCP - as an established sp farmer, can we limit the amount of simultaneous accounts being trained to 5mil sp?
Buying all pilots at the best prices out there!.
Mail me for a quote! I will respond to any inquiry within 12 hours
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
257
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:16:06 -
[275] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Alpha clones will be accessible for free... And so the horde of ret-¦rded kids is coming.
Great. Just keep it in some locked, separated, forgotten part of space. No one welcome 'em in this cluster.
Yes, really.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
911
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:16:31 -
[276] - Quote
Have you totally abandoned the "Upcoming Features and Changes" sub-forum??
Back to the point... Do you have any plans for an Alpha Clone Tournament akin to the AT?
Fewer ships and skills to choose from and use would make player skill more significant due to there being less opportunities for hard counter match ups.
Also, more EVE-Sports FTW!
Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
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Denavit
We are not bad. Just unlucky DARKNESS.
21
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:17:21 -
[277] - Quote
This is a great and needed idea. I'm a veteran and i really think this is cool in all ways, just limit the active alpha accounts and that's it.
And please guys, stop crying and asking for SP reimbursement, be constructive and also go and read the full blog before making already answered questions. cheezzus..
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George Svipul
FAST L0VE
1
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:18:31 -
[278] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Alpha clones will be accessible for free... And so the horde of ret-¦rded kids is coming. Great. Just keep it in some locked, separated, forgotten part of space. No one welcome 'em in this cluster. Yes, really.
we alreadyhave them they are called code lol
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1470
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:18:50 -
[279] - Quote
Could someone from CCP please explain how this will effect PI?
Assume I train omega characters in pi skills and set up planets then let them go unpaid. Will they still be able to manage several planets and all the factories based on the omega skill? Or will the factories offline?
edit: personally I hope you won't be able to do any pi on an alpha account.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Dolorous Tremmens
Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation
173
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:18:58 -
[280] - Quote
free electronic warfare mobs for all, i see your solution to the logi. I also see in this the solution to big fights,: make them more horrible with more f2wreck the server via tidi.
ed* Eves eternal september has begun, and its amusing that it is indeed starting at the very very end of august
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Zozoll Neblyn
Ziggurat Forge
25
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:19:16 -
[281] - Quote
. If alpha state is not viewable, then soon killboards will lose their meaning. Just create an endless cascade of alphas and then gank them yourself.
The only way to tell real kills from fake kills will be to see how expensive the ships were.
Also if any of my alts is lacking in a skill on the alpha list, I'll probably unsub them for a month to train those skills for free. So there could be a sudden drop in subscriptions when this rolls out. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
594
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:19:41 -
[282] - Quote
Lunarstorm95 wrote:These is much better ways to pull in players then going this f2p system
The big fights of eve past is what drew people in. News exposure, media, eve in its glory. Without big fights anymore less people are hearing about the game. This isn't what eve needs. Being unlike any other MMO is what people love about the game. Not just a space skinned run of the mill MMO Big fights require a lot of characters to participate in them. This system is designed to increase the number of people flying in New Eden, which will make it more likely for big fights to happen ("10,000 Players Battle At Once in EVE Online, Largest Online Fight Ever For Any Game!") which will then draw in even more players, etc. etc. |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
319
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:19:51 -
[283] - Quote
motie one wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Im honestly speechless. This is going to completely change Eve and im not so sure that its going to make it better. Going F2P has never been a good thing for any game ive ever played. Its always ended with the game being flooded with a year or two by all the trash that us paying Eve players pay to keep out of our game.
And thats what happens. You get a bunch of kids and trash and the people that actually pay to play the game get sick of dealing with them and just stop playing. Then the game tanks because all the paying players quit and the free players suck up everything and never invest money in the game.
This is a social game and WHO you play with is as important to most people here as what you are playing. If the social aspect of this game becomes like F2P games, ive played in the past, i likely wont stick around. I dont want to try to relax in the middle of Daycare Online. I think your worries are valid, but I do not believe it will be as bad as you fear. At the end of the day, we spend our time talking to our corp and alliance members, that will not change, and many corps will not accept these players for membership. EVE is full of great players and people, and also full of complete idiots. Nothing will change, we just choose who we talk to.
It may not be, but some effects i see of this:
1) High sec is going to become flooded with new players. Thats going to make shopping lag central. The silver lining to this cloud is most of the free players will likely stay in high sec, and may push some paying players into null and low for more pew pew.
2) Im sure this will increase pvp targets. But you know how crafty eve players are. I can almost promise you that some alliance is going to become the blob of T1 ships and be like a swarm of locust. It doesnt matter if you kill 50 or 100 of them because there are thousands. Your tossing a cup of water on a forest fire.
3) The price of minerals are going to go through the roof because now you have masses of people buying t1 frigs> cruisers. This is going to cause everything that uses these minerals to also increase in price.
4) The price of plexes are going to go increase probably by 20-30% at least as the free players attempt to plex their account.
5) These free players are going to suck up resources that are already heavily competed for. Specifically exploration sites. As it catches on we are going to have to compete more and more with free players to the point where grinding is going to become so grindy thats literally all you can do in game is try to grind a few million isk. So CCP will have to increase the amount of resources seeded in the game to match the demand, and honestly they havent been impressing me lately. I feel like they are concentrating a lot of revenue generation and not so much on making the game entertaining. I feel like what is done for upgrades in game is a rush job that is usually delayed multiple times and still buggy as hell when it comes out but revenue generation seems to be in nearly every major update.
CCP seems to of taken more of an interest in generating revenue and less interest in providing a quality product as time goes on.
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Rapala Armiron
Arton Yachting and Angling Club Domain Research and Mining Inst.
37
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:19:52 -
[284] - Quote
Whats everybody playing after eve? |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4405
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:20:20 -
[285] - Quote
Let me be very clear about my objections to this: I play Eve for the "arcade" aspect of frigate PVP. I really appreciate the thrill of how balanced that kind of PVP has become, and even how little impact OGBs have had on it. I have thousands of T1 frigs stationed in the Amarr/Minnie FW war zone. I'm very disappointed that I will no longer have that arcade challenge to the PVP. A paid player will utterly destroy free players because of the limits you've chosen for skill points. Paid players in faction/pirate frigates will be able to destroy these players effortlessly.
I would instead encourage the following model for free to play: - Skill training any skill becomes free to play - Add "entitlements" to ships and modules based on your sub level and based on microtransaction purchases. - Create a rotation of ship entitlements for free players (this requires timed entitlements like ship skins). T1 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers can all be permanently free (suits my play style fine. :P) - Don't create entitlements for faction/T2 versions of modules - do it at the base module level.
I'm unsure how to handle the industry side of things, but I'm sure the industry people have some ideas that are a bit more reasonable than "don't". Thanks for listening.
-Liang
Ed: BTW, you're making a change big enough to the nature of the game that you may want to consider ending suicide ganking entirely.
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Captain Panther
Space Traffic Control United Fleet
8
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:22:29 -
[286] - Quote
My greatest concern about this change is how it will affect FW space as anyone can just sign into militia and start spinning the beacons. Literally we can get LP farmers plague at the much worse scale than it is now.
I'm up to additional restrictions for Alphas in FW. Lower income or some other stuff.
UFR - -¦-¦-+-¦-+ -Ç-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦-¦ -ñ-Æ -ƒ-¦-ƒ -¦-+-î-Å-+-ü-¦ United Fleet. -Æ-¦-¦-¦-+ -+-¦-¦-+-Ç -+-+-+-+-é-+-¦ -ü-+-+-é-¦-¦-é-ü-é-¦-â-Ä-ë-¦-¦-+ -+-¦-+-Ç-¦-¦-+-¦-+-+-Å -¦-+-Å -Ç-+-â-+-+-¦ -+-+ -+-+-â-ü-¦-¦-â -¦ -ü-+-ü-é-¦-¦-¦ -ä-+-+-é-¦ -É-+-î-Å-+-ü-¦ -+ -+-é-¦-Ç-â-ç-+-¦-¦-+-+-Å -¦-¦-+-î-ü-¦-+-à -ü-+-ü-é-¦-+ :)
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
446
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:22:38 -
[287] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote:. If alpha state is not viewable, then soon killboards will lose their meaning. Just create an endless cascade of alphas and then gank them yourself.
The only way to tell real kills from fake kills will be to see how expensive the ships were.
Also if any of my alts is lacking in a skill on the alpha list, I'll probably unsub them for a month to train those skills for free. So there could be a sudden drop in subscriptions when this rolls out. Killboards have meaning?
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite CODE.
73
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:23:07 -
[288] - Quote
Rapala Armiron wrote:Whats everybody playing after eve?
Bye....
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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Kleb Zellock
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:23:17 -
[289] - Quote
BRAVE and CODE will now become FREEdot
free2PandemicHorde
KarmaFleet can now be called AlphaGoons
We can all go watch the Alpha Tournament
Other than some questions around ganking and multiboxing that have already been brought up; what so much salt? |
Zozoll Neblyn
Ziggurat Forge
25
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:23:20 -
[290] - Quote
You can train frigate skills, sure. But you can only train a few skills to level 5. So a frigate flying alpha is always less powerful than a well trained omega on the same ship. |
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2790
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:24:07 -
[291] - Quote
Well, unexpected ... I have to think about how to abuse the hell out of it, stay tuned.
A more general concern ... the game will be flooded with new players making us, the paying subscribers, a minority ... will you be able to resist adjusting the game more and more towards the new majority of F2P folks?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
257
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:25:32 -
[292] - Quote
George Svipul wrote:Arkoth 24 wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Alpha clones will be accessible for free... And so the horde of ret-¦rded kids is coming. Great. Just keep it in some locked, separated, forgotten part of space. No one welcome 'em in this cluster. Yes, really. we alreadyhave them they are called code lol So, it will be easy for ya to put a x9001 multiplier to it.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
319
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:26:27 -
[293] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote:. If alpha state is not viewable, then soon killboards will lose their meaning. Just create an endless cascade of alphas and then gank them yourself.
The only way to tell real kills from fake kills will be to see how expensive the ships were.
Also if any of my alts is lacking in a skill on the alpha list, I'll probably unsub them for a month to train those skills for free. So there could be a sudden drop in subscriptions when this rolls out. Someone still cares about kill board stats in 2016? Wow that is so retro. 2008 called... they want their KB back.
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Kleb Zellock
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:27:19 -
[294] - Quote
Rapala Armiron wrote:Whats everybody playing after eve?
You know the question...make the contract to me.
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Zozoll Neblyn
Ziggurat Forge
25
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:27:21 -
[295] - Quote
Alpha status could also be called "hapless victim" status, due to the insufficiency of their skills. So I think most of the attempts to abuse it will end up with the abuser getting victimized them self.
The only frightening possibility I've heard so far on this thread is logi-spamming. So they might want to remove remote repairers/shield boosters from the alpha list. |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
619
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:28:39 -
[296] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote: Also if any of my alts is lacking in a skill on the alpha list, I'll probably unsub them for a month to train those skills for free. So there could be a sudden drop in subscriptions when this rolls out.
Double-check the list of skills than an Alpha can train. They're pretty limited. There's a good chance that you already have not only your own race's Alpha skills, but the skills for all four races, as well.
That being said, I completely expect non-time-critical new characters of experienced players to start off and train to their max as Alpha chars, first. I don't think anyone could deny expecting that.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Zozoll Neblyn
Ziggurat Forge
25
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:29:01 -
[297] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Zozoll Neblyn wrote:. If alpha state is not viewable, then soon killboards will lose their meaning. Just create an endless cascade of alphas and then gank them yourself.
The only way to tell real kills from fake kills will be to see how expensive the ships were.
Also if any of my alts is lacking in a skill on the alpha list, I'll probably unsub them for a month to train those skills for free. So there could be a sudden drop in subscriptions when this rolls out. Someone still cares about kill board stats in 2016? Wow that is so retro. 2008 called... they want their KB back.
They can't have it!!! I'm keeping it forever!!! |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
321
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:29:28 -
[298] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote: You can train frigate skills, sure. But you can only train a few skills to level 5. So a frigate flying alpha is always less powerful than a well trained omega on the same ship.
Try 20 people with assault rifles against a thousand with bows and arrows... tell me how that works out for ya.
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Wachutu
Wife Is Sleeping Snuffed Out
8
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:30:36 -
[299] - Quote
cool idea
...more ppl ...more pvp ...more frags ...more loot ...more fun
+1 |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
258
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:31:24 -
[300] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote: Alpha status could also be called "hapless victim" status, due to the insufficiency of their skills. So I think most of the attempts to abuse it will end up with the abuser getting victimized them self.
The only frightening possibility I've heard so far on this thread is logi-spamming. So they might want to remove remote repairers/shield boosters from the alpha list.
We'll need Saint James back to clear HiSec from Alpha-plague.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
356
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:32:35 -
[301] - Quote
Querns wrote:Regarding this question in the Q&A: Quote: Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.
That's a thought, although one computer these days could have multiple virtual computers running on it, so blocking via computer will have to really be worked out.
But mostly, I'm excited about this. I'll say 7/10 excited for now. I'm still crying over things like the wiki and the loss of my favorite station background (the Pleasure Station/Quafe one). Bittervet 4eva? |
StarRanger
gaming is not a crime The Volition Cult
28
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:32:40 -
[302] - Quote
Great idea to limit them to a set of skills that will not effect the normal way of things, cuz if you are afraid for a few newbies then you should not undock (ever again), lol. Jita might need to be split up into several more servers tho
Happy to see more people get into this game, we sure can use them as the stats are showing that the number of people playing EVE is dropping every month (sadly!). Get in, get out in space and have fun
Gÿà playing with spaceships since 2003, serious business!
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
356
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:34:40 -
[303] - Quote
Kleb Zellock wrote:Rapala Armiron wrote:Whats everybody playing after eve? You know the question...make the contract to me.
Let them roll a free character on LOTRO, grind around for a bit, enjoy Hobbiton and the Shire, then they'll be ready for more EVE. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7827
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:34:41 -
[304] - Quote
The Alpha Plague.
I like it.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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ThulSaduun
Projekt Erzengel Evictus.
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:37:41 -
[305] - Quote
free eyes for every system... |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5151
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:37:51 -
[306] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Quote: Q: What about farming on free alts using systems like industry?
A: WeGÇÖve deliberately tried to limit this behavior using the skills allowed in the Alpha list. Without skills to increase things like material efficiency it should be very hard to scale alt farms in a way that hurts the ecosystem. Didn't you remove skills for improving ME because it was an unfair barrier? Do you even still know your game? Quote:Q: WonGÇÖt lag be a huge problem?
A: We are confident that we can handle a significant increase in activity, so hopefully not. We are prepared to make design changes if this does become a problem, and as always we will continue investing in our hardware and our code base. The last big battle in Nalvula proves that as a blatant lie. The new hardware is not capable of accommodating any more players, it's in fact only able to accommodate fewer players. So, CCP doesn't know their game, CCP can't stop lying ... and now they want more players in the game based on that? Looking forward to it.
Big battles are always a lag problem. This was true when we have 45,000 logging in and it is true now when we have 25,000 logging. So your objection to lag is noted and also rejected.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14567
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:38:01 -
[307] - Quote
Rapala Armiron wrote:
I agree that this wont work because ftp doesnt work. But list of reasons why people dont play eve is flat wrong. Eve is a niche game that catered to hardcore players. It was counter programming to games like wow. When eve embraced its hardcore status it thrived. The more articles that appeared in the news about big fights, assassinations and corp thefts, the more eve grew.
Eve only went off the rails when CCP started chasing casuals. Just as an example - when I first started playing there was a pretty good chance that someone would haze you in a starting player system - they would put up a can saying something like "tactical supplies" waiting for you to take it and when you did they would blap you. Sure it was not sporting - but it gave players a taste of the true eve - while those that didnt like it left, others, htfu and figured out how to survive - those survivors became long term players. Now, ccp has made it so the starter zones are safe bubbles divorced from the real rules of eve. So a starting player does not get to experience being ganked until later in his career - so instead of losing an ibis in a starter zone they loss a faction bs which they bought with plex in a lvl4 mission system. Since they hadnt been hazed early in their career and no one told them about pvp in their tutorial new player experience - they had no idea that they could be ganked and when they lose that faction bs they rage and maybe quit. By making eve starter systems more safe and friendly - all ccp did was make the lessons harder to swallow in the long run.
???
Isn't that what I've been saying?
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
596
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:38:19 -
[308] - Quote
Jed Airtech wrote:Can we train alpha skills on alts on accounts with an active subscription but who do not have an active training queue? No. Unless you purchase a multiple training certificate. All characters on an account are Alpha, or all characters on an account are Omega.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5151
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:39:39 -
[309] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Will Alpha industrialists be limited in what they can build? It's a bit meaningless to say they can't research ME or PE when you can buy fully-researched BPO's, and considering the sheer number of characters free accounts could generate, the lack of production lines is largely irrelevant.
Man, so many of the industrialists need to read Frederic Bastiat.....
This creates a new market opportunity for people who can do these things.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Xair Nuitarius
BAND of MAGNUS THE R0NIN
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:39:43 -
[310] - Quote
For those who say, it should be allowed to play only one alfa clone per IP. That is realy bad idea and proves you don't know nothing about network. There is thousands players hiden under one IP address, cause provider group them under one. It blocks possibility for playing two childs (friends...) from one home.
For those who say you should be allowed to start only one alpha clone from computer. OK i have three computers that i can use simultanously. Without any effort i can play three clones. With little affort (virtualization) i can start lot of them. This only favortize someone with better computers, botters or someone who just make little study how to do it. |
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Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
293
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:39:59 -
[311] - Quote
FW will become even more of a grind fest. xD
Quote:A: We are confident that we can handle a significant increase in activity, so hopefully not. We are prepared to make design changes if this does become a problem, and as always we will continue investing in our hardware and our code base. Fantasies are cool and all, but come on CCP get real. |
Voxinian
102
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:40:10 -
[312] - Quote
It's a good start for some necessary fundamental changes to EVE. A first step into a new direction, well done CCP. |
Staten Island
Diversity 101 The Volition Cult
50
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:40:38 -
[313] - Quote
Kleb Zellock wrote:Rapala Armiron wrote:Whats everybody playing after eve? You know the question...make the contract to me.
Yea yea.
More importantly after the ftp bump fizzles - whats the over/under for eve being back to less players then it is today? |
Nuka-Cola Addict
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:40:44 -
[314] - Quote
I like the idea. It will bring a much needed player boost.
CCP, any idea if you are going to do higher tiers? Beta, Delta, etc.? |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
95
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:40:55 -
[315] - Quote
I like this idea for recruiting new players and have them stick around long enough to be drawn into the game and subscribe.
However:
1) There should be no way of making passive ISK off these clones --- If there is then someone will get 1000's of accounts and exploit it.
2) There needs to be a limit on simultaneous logged in account --- I have 4 high end machines So 25 to 35 accounts on minimum graphics settings is possible each with a Miasmos slowly mining for free in a high sec back water whilst I play my normal game on my main.
3) Griefing & Ganking is a part of Eve but I think it should be discouraged on free accounts - Yellow Aggression only and maybe this will force players into paying for accounts used for ganking in place of churning though trial accounts.
4) They don't need a cloak just safe spots and they don't need a cyno just the intel to let you know where to put one. ----- With a skilled main toon as a guide and unlimited free accounts = 1 spy or 10 spies in every null sec region of your choice just log them on occasionally and watch the null bears bolt for safety ----- You think cloaked AFK is a bad thing how about multiple log-in's along a rout and it could look like a roaming force was approaching.
So many ways to grief and all for free: Maybe restrict them to positive security space only - or Only log off in station to be transported to nearest station if logged in space
Question: Can they join a player corporation?
Because War-dec'in whilst having a Cruiser pilot in every system in a region (or all high sec) and using a main with locator agent would be fun for griefing/harassing care bears. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5151
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:41:14 -
[316] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Didn't see that coming. T3Ds, cloaking, and cyno are not usable on alpha clones so I don't really see a problem with the concept. More people flying T1 frigs, destroyers and cruisers is good for the game. I foresee herds of low skill but free miners across New Eden, though. That is a concerning. This is really critical: devblog wrote: Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
A: We have not decided whether the simultaneous log on restrictions from the current trial system will apply to Alpha Clones. The decision will partly depend on your feedback, as well as our technical investigations over the coming months.
PLEASE limit the number of simultaneous logins for alpha clones. I suggest two or three. That is enough to let people taste alt play without becoming blatantly exploitative. It also limits the inevitable uptick in ganking, though probably not by enough.
Mining ships are not part of any faction/race, so I'd guess most of those will be unavailable to them. Granted they could still mine in frigs, dessies and cruisers, but the efficiency is much lower.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
596
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:42:11 -
[317] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Im honestly speechless. This is going to completely change Eve and im not so sure that its going to make it better. Going F2P has never been a good thing for any game ive ever played. Its always ended with the game being flooded with a year or two by all the trash that us paying Eve players pay to keep out of our game.
And thats what happens. You get a bunch of kids and trash and the people that actually pay to play the game get sick of dealing with them and just stop playing. Then the game tanks because all the paying players quit and the free players suck up everything and never invest money in the game.
This is a social game and WHO you play with is as important to most people here as what you are playing. If the social aspect of this game becomes like F2P games, ive played in the past, i likely wont stick around. I dont want to try to relax in the middle of Daycare Online. What will these trash kids do? Crap on local? Big deal, that already happens. They're not going to get into your corp unless your directors are idiots so you don't need to worry about alliance/corp/fleet chats. (It'll be interesting to see how Pandemic Horde culture changes...) Are they going to fly around and be targets? Yep! Great!
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thoryo darkstarz
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:43:00 -
[318] - Quote
Q: What happens if my training queue contains Omega skills but I am in Alpha State?
A: We will pause your training queue and it will need to be manually restarted once the Omega skills are removed or the subscription is renewed.
so if i let my sub lapse do to work my skill que is going to stop training, im sorry thats bullshit. This game will be going the way of the titanic like every other mmo thats tried this. |
Colman Dietmar
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
82
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:44:27 -
[319] - Quote
Will be funny if online doesn't improve after this. Even more funny if it just continues to decline. |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
258
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:45:46 -
[320] - Quote
Colman Dietmar wrote:Will be funny if online doesn't improve after this. Even more funny if it just continues to decline. I guess many people don't want to live in this galaxy already.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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jordanoontje
Quantum Star Conglomerate The Republic.
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:46:25 -
[321] - Quote
When i just got home and heard about it i was a bit sceptical, though after reading through the devblog it became clear that there was at least some thought in the balance between alpha state and omega.
Though my concerns are that if running multiple clients in the alpha&omega combination or the alpha&alpha combination would be allowed it would force everyone to do this to be competititve, in pvp with scouts or mining in belts and probably other areas of New eden Even. Though impact might be limited by the skill limitations i still believe it won't bring positive effects by allowing this.
Secondly i would like to see the safety mechanic for alpha state clones to be limited to yellow to prevent endless hi-sec ganking, by just making a new alpha state toon for a fresh start of the security status
regardless i think this is a great step for EvE online and might finaly push this game into the direction it's supposed to be on the top!
sincere
jordan |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
599
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:47:07 -
[322] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote:. If alpha state is not viewable, then soon killboards will lose their meaning. Since when have killboards had any meaning?
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17846
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:47:10 -
[323] - Quote
thoryo darkstarz wrote:Q: What happens if my training queue contains Omega skills but I am in Alpha State?
A: We will pause your training queue and it will need to be manually restarted once the Omega skills are removed or the subscription is renewed.
so if i let my sub lapse do to work my skill que is going to stop training, im sorry thats bullshit. This game will be going the way of the titanic like every other mmo thats tried this. That's how it works now. No pants no shirt : no service.
=]|[=
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Hunter Anubis
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
7
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:47:17 -
[324] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Greetings capsuleers! Today, we are happy to announce a new change thatGÇÖs coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client. In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a characterGÇÖs race. A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=452051 how about I get a little bit of credit? I sugested this same thing 11 months ago... |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5151
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:47:26 -
[325] - Quote
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP?
Both problems are fixed by getting out of high sec
Not only that but belts were not being mined out even when we had 50,000 people logging in during peak hours. This fear is wildly over blown unless people are expecting to see numbers going even higher than 50,000 PCU.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
324
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:47:28 -
[326] - Quote
So this is what we are going to do guys and gals...
On the day before release we are all going to drop our corps and alliances. We are going to make new corps with the following names:
Left Flank Alpha - for Russian Players Center Alpha - for EU players Right Flank Alpha - for US players Reserve Alpha - For industry Thermoplyae - Holding Corp Night Watchmen- Aussies
Additional corps will be named using greek letters as needed. IE: Center Beta, Center Gamma, etc
And the alliance name for all paying subscribers to eve will be...
*Drumroll*....
300 [P2W]
Because thats what the game is going to be like 300 well trained against a horde of thousands. |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:47:30 -
[327] - Quote
thoryo darkstarz wrote:Q: What happens if my training queue contains Omega skills but I am in Alpha State?
A: We will pause your training queue and it will need to be manually restarted once the Omega skills are removed or the subscription is renewed.
so if i let my sub lapse do to work my skill que is going to stop training, im sorry thats bullshit. This game will be going the way of the titanic like every other mmo thats tried this.
Erm....If your sub runs out your skill queue stops anyway, so what's different? |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
86
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:47:42 -
[328] - Quote
Good initiative.
Next up if you ask me, starting to spread a thin layer of themepark on top of the sandbox, which contains themepark stuff to do, stuff that's achieved by using sandbox tools. |
Neva Second
Extreme Agony
11
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:48:06 -
[329] - Quote
In an effort to increase players I think its a great concept, if I hadn't purchased a 6mo subscription out of the gate I would not still be playing years later. Eve takes time to wrap your head around and see how the game differs from other MMO's. Having time to train up some basic skills and experience it without hitting your wallet is a good thing for everyone.
*However: As a bitter vet who uses capitals pretty frequently I would love CCP to reconsider the Cyno skill exclusion. Many players like me have 1-2 accounts with nothing but cyno alts to help move their caps around the board. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5151
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:48:13 -
[330] - Quote
Brown Pathfinder wrote:This is a huge change to eve wich might help get new players in wich is a good thing! My personal monkey with this is as a wormhole explorer player that in periods live in the deepest space that you want to remove my ability to have cloak and pirate and t2 ships, so if i would be inactive for a while and come back in my stratios or anathema or legion and I would be in wh-space I would have to self destruct since i cant cloak while in a cov op ship
Why not just pay your sub before logging in?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2954
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Posted - 2016.08.31 17:49:05 -
[331] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I dont think it will end well.
CCP, stop until it will be too late. You will not gain money on this. It will not solve problems. It will cause many new ones. I think you probably need to be a little more specific to be useful.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14569
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:51:57 -
[332] - Quote
Colman Dietmar wrote:Will be funny if online doesn't improve after this. Even more funny if it just continues to decline.
I'm not hoping this will happen. Hell, i can actually truthfully say that I hope i am wrong. But I am saying I think this will happen (if history is a guide). It seems gimmicky.
Some are surprised that there is not more anger at the announcement. I think that can be summed up by 1 thing, "anger fatigue". We've been slapped around so much the last couple years, everything from jump fatigue to skill injection and all the rest, that it's almost hard to get angry anymore lol. I mean, who wasn't expecting this?
I just hope that one day CCP goes back to their hardcore viking "here's a ship, **** you" ways of building upon EVE's strengths as a harsh unforgiving Darwinistic place. As it is now, CCP is trying to move forward by addressing it's weaknesses (ie attract more casual, risk averse standard mmo players who think 50 cents a day is robbery), and that's just not going to end well IMO. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
599
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:52:19 -
[333] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:2) Im sure this will increase pvp targets. But you know how crafty eve players are. I can almost promise you that some alliance is going to become the blob of T1 ships and be like a swarm of locust. It doesnt matter if you kill 50 or 100 of them because there are thousands. Your tossing a cup of water on a forest fire. Good! "Too many PvP targets" is never a thing.
Quote:3) The price of minerals are going to go through the roof because now you have masses of people buying t1 frigs> cruisers. This is going to cause everything that uses these minerals to also increase in price. If mineral prices spike, mining will increase, which will reduce mineral prices.
Quote:4) The price of plexes are going to go increase probably by 20-30% at least as the free players attempt to plex their account. Good, because that's money for CCP, and the players will get hooked on Omega state play and will hopefully become long-term players.
Quote:5) These free players are going to suck up resources that are already heavily competed for. Specifically exploration sites. That's okay. They can only train hacking to 3, they can't cloak, and they can't fly SoE ships. They won't compete for the high-end sites.
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Lunarstorm95
Iron Star Industries
34
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:52:36 -
[334] - Quote
I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick....
GÇ£You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.GÇ¥
GÇò Robert A. Heinlein
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
GÇò Confucius-á
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
621
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:52:53 -
[335] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: This is a social game and WHO you play with is as important to most people here as what you are playing. If the social aspect of this game becomes like F2P games, ive played in the past, i likely wont stick around. I dont want to try to relax in the middle of Daycare Online.
If that happens, you should probably consult with your corp mates and recruiters to find out why they're keeping such annoying people around. If you and enough corp mates disagree with the decision, splinter off. Unlike many games, EVE's primary chat rooms are in Alliance, Corp, and Fleet (or your coalition's equivalent of Alliance and Corp). The "global" channels are Local, Constellation (basically unused), and Region (even less used, and closes annoyingly when changing regions). Those can be blocked quite nicely to only allow yourself to see the players, all without seeing what they're saying.
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: 2) Im sure this will increase pvp targets. But you know how crafty eve players are. I can almost promise you that some alliance is going to become the blob of T1 ships and be like a swarm of locust. It doesnt matter if you kill 50 or 100 of them because there are thousands. Your tossing a cup of water on a forest fire.
Having fights isn't a bad thing.
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: 3) The price of minerals are going to go through the roof because now you have masses of people buying t1 frigs> cruisers. This is going to cause everything that uses these minerals to also increase in price.
The hilarity of this statement is that people are saying it's going to go both ways. The mass influx of Venture miners will tank mineral prices, while the vast influx of clueless players losing poorly-fit and skilled ships will increase prices. Make up your minds, eh?
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: 4) The price of plexes are going to go increase probably by 20-30% at least as the free players attempt to plex their account.
Another one I've heard people going both ways about. The Alpha players are going to farm until they can PLEX, driving PLEX prices up, and the Alpha players are going to inject PLEX to get a significant source of ISK with which they can throw out hundreds of cheap ships, thus driving the price of PLEX down. Again, make up your minds.
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: 5) These free players are going to suck up resources that are already heavily competed for. Specifically exploration sites. As it catches on we are going to have to compete more and more with free players to the point where grinding is going to become so grindy thats literally all you can do in game is try to grind a few million isk. So CCP will have to increase the amount of resources seeded in the game to match the demand, and honestly they havent been impressing me lately.
There's so much space that's unused in EVE that the most likely thing you'll see happening is vets moving to the edges with the clueless players clustering in the middle.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1607
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:53:01 -
[336] - Quote
Hunter Anubis wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Greetings capsuleers! Today, we are happy to announce a new change thatGÇÖs coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client. In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a characterGÇÖs race. A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=452051 how about I get a little bit of credit? I sugested this same thing 11 months ago...
I've been suggesting this in random posts for like 2 or 3 years.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
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thoryo darkstarz
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:53:04 -
[337] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:I dont think it will end well.
CCP, stop until it will be too late. You will not gain money on this. It will not solve problems. It will cause many new ones. I think you probably need to be a little more specific to be useful. ive seen this idea fail in everyother game that has tried this
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Indanu
Pact Of Honour Red Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:53:32 -
[338] - Quote
-+-+-¦-¦ -ò-¦-¦-¦, -Å -Ç-¦-¦ -¦-ï-+ -é-¦-¦-¦ -+-é-¦-¦-é-î 10 -+-¦-é. -+-é-+-¦-+-Å-Ä -+-+-¦-+-+-ü-¦-â. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1607
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:54:01 -
[339] - Quote
Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick....
You mean like... buying ISK? Oh wait... Uhm... buying SP? No... hang on. Buying too expensive SKINs for your shi... oh.
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My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
259
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:54:04 -
[340] - Quote
Logan Revelore wrote:Good initiative.
Next up if you ask me, starting to spread a thin layer of themepark on top of the sandbox, which contains themepark stuff to do, stuff that's achieved by using sandbox tools. Rewards for daily logins next, pl0x.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15123
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:54:57 -
[341] - Quote
Heh, i think I know what will happen later.
They will introduce other Clone states, after Alpha there will be Beta, with more skills able to be trained or active when not paying for subscription. Of course the state will be altered with you buying a certain item for aurum in shop.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5151
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:55:18 -
[342] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Interesting.
So far, I cannot think of any major objections. I will try to think of ways this can be abused, but barring that I don't see it being a bad thing.
I think it'd be fine for unlimited Mega clone clients to run along with a single Alpha clone client on the same computer, but I have concerns about multiple Alpha clone clients.
First possible "abuse": Train an Alpha clone to 5m SP. Switch it to Omega state, train Cybernetics to 5, plug in +5 implants, and have an SP farm ready to go without having to pay for the initial 5m SP investment.
From a revenue standpoint...so? So they skip that first month or so, but every month after that they are coughing up the money. If that means more people with paid accounts that otherwise....how is that bad?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Mark Hadden
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
76
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:55:21 -
[343] - Quote
BuntCakez wrote:I actually think that EVE is probably the only MMO that can successfully pull off the F2P model. With sufficient limits on the Alpha clones, they will not be able to disturb the current state of the game in an undesirable fashion :)
I'm unsure on that, I mean if those ftp accounts will be limited in such a vast number of ways, the question is if' playing these is going to be someones desire at all. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14570
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:57:25 -
[344] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote:Logan Revelore wrote:Good initiative.
Next up if you ask me, starting to spread a thin layer of themepark on top of the sandbox, which contains themepark stuff to do, stuff that's achieved by using sandbox tools. Rewards for daily logins next, pl0x.
Yep,. it's like that
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3914
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:57:35 -
[345] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Brown Pathfinder wrote:This is a huge change to eve wich might help get new players in wich is a good thing! My personal monkey with this is as a wormhole explorer player that in periods live in the deepest space that you want to remove my ability to have cloak and pirate and t2 ships, so if i would be inactive for a while and come back in my stratios or anathema or legion and I would be in wh-space I would have to self destruct since i cant cloak while in a cov op ship Why not just pay your sub before logging in? Or: log in an alt who is someplace safe and use a PLEX.
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
260
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:57:47 -
[346] - Quote
Indanu wrote:-+-+-¦-¦ -ò-¦-¦-¦, -Å -Ç-¦-¦ -¦-ï-+ -é-¦-¦-¦ -+-é-¦-¦-é-î 10 -+-¦-é. -+-é-+-¦-+-Å-Ä -+-+-¦-+-+-ü-¦-â. See if someone cares.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Lunarstorm95
Iron Star Industries
34
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:58:09 -
[347] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick.... You mean like... buying ISK? Oh wait... Uhm... buying SP? No... hang on. Buying too expensive SKINs for your shi... oh.
Im more talking about buying additional access for ur alpha toon. Like allowing to train t2 mods or allowe d to train other races ect ect
Kinda like swtor did. Allow you to slowly purchase yourself to a full access clone without actually subbing
GÇ£You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.GÇ¥
GÇò Robert A. Heinlein
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
GÇò Confucius-á
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Garret Sidzaka
506 Irregulars The Volition Cult
11
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 17:59:42 -
[348] - Quote
mining barges = bad idea.
i have personal friends who own more than 500 ip addresses and can fake mac addresses all damn day, and own server farms with V5 intel graphical server CPU's
i would not allow mining barges and only mining frigs. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
602
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:00:09 -
[349] - Quote
thoryo darkstarz wrote:Q: What happens if my training queue contains Omega skills but I am in Alpha State?
A: We will pause your training queue and it will need to be manually restarted once the Omega skills are removed or the subscription is renewed.
so if i let my sub lapse do to work my skill que is going to stop training, im sorry thats bullshit. This game will be going the way of the titanic like every other mmo thats tried this. Don't let your sub lapse. Simple.
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
324
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:00:22 -
[350] - Quote
Indanu wrote:-+-+-¦-¦ -ò-¦-¦-¦, -Å -Ç-¦-¦ -¦-ï-+ -é-¦-¦-¦ -+-é-¦-¦-é-î 10 -+-¦-é. -+-é-+-¦-+-Å-Ä -+-+-¦-+-+-ü-¦-â.
English bro. Americans are to lazy to learn a second language or use google translate( i can say that cause im american)
Rough translation: I was glad to give you 10 years, cancelling my subscription.
Our first Russian casualty of the New Alpha Order. |
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5151
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:00:45 -
[351] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:First, this is about trial vs. subscription, so in my opinion if you obfuscate this fact by using completely non-descriptive terms like "alpha" and "omega", you're doing yourselves a dis-service. You're placing a point of confusion between your game and people opening their wallets to pay you for it. I would like to recommend calling it "trial" clones and "subscribed" clones, and inventing some in-character explanation for those terms. Because that's what we're familiar with.
Second, "alpha" and "omega"? "beginning" and "end"? really? You don't envision in-between states, like us paying through our nose to unlock individual features (I want access to the Megathron dammit, I love that ship, but I don't want to pay subscription or unlock anything else)? You don't envision more-than-subscription states, such as paying 2x subscription costs to slow-train at 2x the speed? 3x subscription for 3x speed? You don't envision anything in between alpha and omega, or beyond omega?
Link the subscription model to the clones if you want, it's a fine idea.
But just name it what it is, and let the naming convention allow for shades of grey in between and beyond "subscribed" or "not".
Sooo...just to be clear you want more microtransactions, not less.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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se'na'ki'ta yey'nii
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:02:14 -
[352] - Quote
Multiple logins from Alpha accounts from the same IP address must be prohibited, and circumventing this must be a bannable offense!
Otherwise, It does not require much thought to realise how significant and detrimental this would be. Multiple people would run multiple free accounts for semi-AFK scouting, mining, hauling etc. You would also lose many subscription memberships
Clearer naming system would preferable! For example, "restricted" and "unrestricted" account. "unqualified" and "qualified" clones; "alpha" and "enhanced" clone states. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15123
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:04:04 -
[353] - Quote
So when new Clone Grades? Oooops I mean States.
You can always monetize the skill capacity they are able to hold and use. Remember, greed is good.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
Cookie
Snakeoil Industries Ltd.
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:05:03 -
[354] - Quote
Why trying to fish for new players when there's a problem holding the current ones ?
The term 'bittervet' doesn't come from nowhere, how many times have old characters been hit by a change that left a bitter taste ?
Trained 3 month of learning skills, after removal of them i felt it would have been more beneficial to sit 2 months earlier in a battleship back in 2003, the opportunity costs were pretty high. Lot of stuff has been dumbed down, e.g. scanning took a bit of skill and maybe also some patience to find something nice, now you get all handed on a silverplatter. Maybe patience and long term planning are bad attributes, better cater to the yolo crowd i guess :/
I mean .. the alpha account has to be heavily nerfed/restricted to prevent abuse. be it scamspam, neutral reppers, market/mining/industry, scouting* Not really sure if that's a good idea to present the game to new players who got baited by a f2p advertisement, when it's actually a p2w game. There are quite a couple free to play games that aren't really p2w but more like money fueled character progress accleration and the 'shopitems' are open to in-game trades. Those pure pay-to-win games where you basically can only play a fraction of the game with a nerfed character are not really the big love of every gamer out there. Unfortunately, in EvE you can't hand out an unlimited number of accounts with unlimited gratis playtime which are on par with the paid ones because it will totally wreck the game within weeks.
The dream of restricting people to one login will most likely not become true. Those who want to abuse/loophole a system WILL find a way or two.
Now everybody has an invite to insult and harrass people with throwaway accounts who can't be hurt by banning them.
*= (oh my god, better increase the database by a petabyte or two to hold the 8329 logged off alpha accounts in every system)
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Indanu
Pact Of Honour Red Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:05:03 -
[355] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Indanu wrote:-+-+-¦-¦ -ò-¦-¦-¦, -Å -Ç-¦-¦ -¦-ï-+ -é-¦-¦-¦ -+-é-¦-¦-é-î 10 -+-¦-é. -+-é-+-¦-+-Å-Ä -+-+-¦-+-+-ü-¦-â. English bro. Americans are to lazy to learn a second language or use google translate( i can say that cause im american) Rough translation: I was glad to give you 10 years, cancelling my subscription. Our first Russian casualty of the New Alpha Order.
thnks for translate, dude :)
realy f2p kill all games who i know, very bad decision |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17846
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:05:08 -
[356] - Quote
Lunarstorm95 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick.... You mean like... buying ISK? Oh wait... Uhm... buying SP? No... hang on. Buying too expensive SKINs for your shi... oh. Im more talking about buying additional access for ur alpha toon. Like allowing to train t2 mods or allowe d to train other races ect ect Kinda like swtor did. Allow you to slowly purchase yourself to a full access clone without actually subbing Who gives a **** what they do to the plebs, seriously as long as the sub is the last word in access to content they can do what they like.
=]|[=
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
602
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:05:46 -
[357] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Interesting.
So far, I cannot think of any major objections. I will try to think of ways this can be abused, but barring that I don't see it being a bad thing.
I think it'd be fine for unlimited Mega clone clients to run along with a single Alpha clone client on the same computer, but I have concerns about multiple Alpha clone clients.
First possible "abuse": Train an Alpha clone to 5m SP. Switch it to Omega state, train Cybernetics to 5, plug in +5 implants, and have an SP farm ready to go without having to pay for the initial 5m SP investment.
From a revenue standpoint...so? So they skip that first month or so, but every month after that they are coughing up the money. If that means more people with paid accounts that otherwise....how is that bad? Yeah, after thinking about it more I think it will have negligible effect, so doesn't need to be addressed by CCP.
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Noga Taranogas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:05:58 -
[358] - Quote
been asking for something like this for a long time and glad for the alphas focused training and limits to what they can train. Gives the uninitiated the opportunity to come into the game and do more than the 14d trial -hardly an time at all to really see what is possible in EVE. Giving newbies the core skills to do some T1 frig, dessie, and cruiser action can give them the chance to dive into the game and seeing so much more available, the chance to sub to omega or not.
I'm of mixed feelings about
Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
A: We have not decided whether the simultaneous log on restrictions from the current trial system will apply to Alpha Clones. The decision will partly depend on your feedback, as well as our technical investigations over the coming months.
-to have omega players creating alphas for quick attack fleets that no one can id will be a problem. 600 players in an alliance create 600 alphas all in cruisers even with skill limits is still 600 untraceable players back to the alliance. These 600 alphas who are really alliance X can be used to harass alliance X blues without alliance X being exposed. Keep the system in place that if you have an Omega logged in, you can't have an Alpha running -great and all, but you just don't have your Omega running...
To prevent abuse of meta-alpha'ing -restrict the amount of isk that an alpha can receive through player donations. Permit up to 100 million isk donation for the life of the Alpha. Once the 100 million isk limit is reached, player cannot be donated to. If alliance X wants to create 600 alphas and give them 100 mil as suiciders or harassers that's fine, but then the alpha must earn isk to buy their ships. If you see tons of alphas created, donated to, and then deleted, it will give you a fair idea that it's being abused.
might want to consider that alphas cannot receive 'omega' items in trade -could just trade battleships to them to sell on the market and get isk that way.
Is it possible to restrict their ability to sell ships? they should not be able to receive cruisers to put up for sale as a way to fund harassment or suicide fleets. Sure, give them 20 fitted ships, but they can only use them, not sell them.
Good luck with this. glad that newbies will have a chance to see a bit more of the game.
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Blastil
Aideron Robotics
120
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:06:06 -
[359] - Quote
For all the hallabalu about mining multiboxers -
- To add up to just 1 T2 fit procurer, you will need to fly 3 t1 fit mining frigates
- To add up to just 1 hulk, you will need to fly 3 T1 fit mining frigates
I know we all like to **** on multiboxers, but even the best of them would have a hard time managing a fleet 4x the size of their current hulk fleets (not to mention the LAG this would cause on clients. Not to mention that this game play mechanic isn't a terrible thing for EVE, since resources in eve ARE limited substances. Go try to find an asteroid in some highsec mining hubs, I dare you.
I for one would welcome a multi-boxed fleet of mining ships out in 0.0 space trying to make a buck. It would certainly add to the diversity of the game. Material input in eve will NOT (as some have predicted) lead to inflation, but rather deflation as mineral prices plummet and people react to that issue. This in turn will increasingly make multiboxing veldspar hoovering alts unprofitable, and force them to relocate to more lucrative areas of space with higher risks.
In no conceivable way is more players bad for the game. Especially if these players are limited in scope.
I will say that however I'm an advocate of safety locking these players while in highsec to eliminate the exploitation of the ganking mechanic entirely. Yellow safety should be sufficient, so they can still do shady PVP, but not outright Concordoken violence. If you want a lore reason for this, why would empires provide free clones that could cause havoc in their empires? Its all subliminal conditioning, or fluoride water, or something.
I also think the suggestion of limiting one alpha client per computer is a good one as well. Free players shouldn't get to multibox the way paid players do. This should eliminate problems with an account in every plex ruining faction warfare.
Lastly I think Alpha characters should be deleted if they show inactivity over a long period of time (and have never been at any time Omega characters), which should help to eliminate extra characters cached in key systems to be logged on at a moments notice for some activity like scouting or logon traps |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1609
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:06:12 -
[360] - Quote
Lunarstorm95 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick.... You mean like... buying ISK? Oh wait... Uhm... buying SP? No... hang on. Buying too expensive SKINs for your shi... oh. Im more talking about buying additional access for ur alpha toon. Like allowing to train t2 mods or allowe d to train other races ect ect Kinda like swtor did. Allow you to slowly purchase yourself to a full access clone without actually subbing
I doubt that will ever happen in that way, as that would open up all the abuse scenarios they're trying to avoid right now. Buy access to Cyno skill, never pay again, free cyno alt forever. Nope.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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|
Arkoth 24
Phayder
260
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:07:46 -
[361] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:So when new Clone Grades? Oooops I mean States.
You can always monetize the skill capacity they are able to hold and use. Soon.
As usual: tons of negative feedback - CCP doesn't give a drek.
Yeah, i'm still pissed off 'bout Evelopedia.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Cytherea Deesse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:07:49 -
[362] - Quote
Why no heavy drones for gallente?
Like vexor main bonus is to drones and has 75 mb so can field 2 heavy, 2 medium and 1 light drone.
With limits you put in gallente alpha clone that is not possible it will only be allowed to field 5 medium drones.
Overall I think idea is oki, but fear that it will be abused, eve players have a habit of pushing the boundries.
Like others have pointed out I think, FW, industry/PI, and market are the areas that has most potentiel of abuse AND hurting the eco system in NE.
With eve players history of finding loop holes in the mechanincs and the areas ppl have already pointed out in the thread, I hope that alpha clone system doen't go live, before it has all been thought thrugh, so the risk is small of abuse to happen. So don't rush things, cause some of the idea can have big impact on eco system.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3915
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:08:08 -
[363] - Quote
Hmm, Alpha is the first letter, Omega the last.... CCP, what are you planning for all the letters in between? I know at one time you were planning on allowing us to use the same character for different games, like Valkyrie or Gun-jack. Is that still on the table? I get into my Gamma clone when I want to play Valk, or something like that?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Solecist Project
32757
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:08:23 -
[364] - Quote
I want free alts for everyone.
It's definitely preferrable to allow a free Alpha for every Omega ....
... and by that i mean two clients at the same time running.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
602
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:09:05 -
[365] - Quote
Lunarstorm95 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick.... You mean like... buying ISK? Oh wait... Uhm... buying SP? No... hang on. Buying too expensive SKINs for your shi... oh. Im more talking about buying additional access for ur alpha toon. Like allowing to train t2 mods or allowe d to train other races ect ect Purchasing access like that already exists. It's called "PLEX" or "subscription."
Quote:Kinda like swtor did. Allow you to slowly purchase yourself to a full access clone without actually subbing I don't see the distinction...?
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Kilarya Amarri
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
7
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:09:15 -
[366] - Quote
I my self would prefer that anyone at ccp made an effort and made it more deeper than clones A and B for gameplay sake...
Say new clones are empire breakthrough in pod tech it allows any human to achieve pod pilot like capabilities in attempt to close gap we currently enjoy and exploit oh so much.
Below all of that i see it for what it is FTP and i am not and probably never been fanboy enough to talk **** about it when other games do it but somehow justify it when eve gets it,
it will be exploited by ppl that are already in game most and due to fundamental problems this game suffer from new ppl will not stick around....my opinion of it anyway
not much left to sell off and soup youd **** in is getting cold...bon appetit. |
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:09:49 -
[367] - Quote
I'm fine with some free access for eve under 2 conditions: 1) Plex remains affordable 2) This doesn't devolve into one of those crappy incarna shituations where CCP is trying to milky milky the new and existing client base through micro transactions. "How many greek letters can we squeeze between alpha and omega? As many as we can divise payment schemes for muahaha" |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
36
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:11:00 -
[368] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:That's a thought, although one computer these days could have multiple virtual computers running on it, so blocking via computer will have to really be worked out. EULA Section 7 D (Monitoring) : You agree that CCP may remotely monitor your Game hardware solely for the purpose of establishing whether in playing the Game and accessing the System you are using software created or approved by CCP, or whether you are using unauthorized software created by you or a third party in contravention of Section 6."
It comes down to the question, can they detect Virtual Machines and VPNs when someone tries to bypass login restrictions imposed to Alpha accounts as they are imposed on trial accounts, or can't they. My answer is; multiboxing is allowed and encouraged. Not abusing of the system. ISboxing was banned a while ago.
Furthermore, if you see someone exhibit suspicious bot-like swarm behaviour and you're not sure if they are one person or many? I'd say just submit a ticket. Then CCP can set some feelers out.
I don't think CCP will allow more than one Alpha account be online at the same time with another Alpha or Trial. It's either going to be one Alpha per computer, like the trial, or it's one Alpha + as many Omegas as you want.
Missy Bunnz wrote:Beware the Gnosis Alphaswarm. That'd be fun, not gonna lie ...but I doubt it will happen. You've seen how they can restrict modules based on Alpha and Omega clone state. They can easily make exceptions for ships.
Teckos Pech wrote:Mining ships are not part of any faction/race, so I'd guess most of those will be unavailable to them. Look at the devblog. They can only fly Mining Frigates, not Mining Barges and not mining exhumers. They still can get creative and mine in a crui- ohwhoamikidding.
Roenok Baalnorn wrote funny stuff which Eli Stan answered followed by Winter Archipelago as well, both delivering the bullet of reason expertly. Can't add anything more but thumbs ;)
Cookie wrote:*= (oh my god, better increase the database by a petabyte or two to hold the 8329 logged off alpha accounts in every system) Do you know how many dozen of million characters already are in the database where some of them have not seen the light of day for a decade?
Furthermore for everyone else fearing this will be a hostile Alpha takeover;, likely you do not know or remember the times when simultaneous Trial accounts online on Tranquility were limited to 1500. It's easy to put a limit.
Henry Plantgenet wrote:"How many greek letters can we squeeze between alpha and omega? As many as we can divise payment schemes for muahaha" You mean, as many as there were medical clone grades? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17846
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:11:43 -
[369] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Lunarstorm95 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick.... You mean like... buying ISK? Oh wait... Uhm... buying SP? No... hang on. Buying too expensive SKINs for your shi... oh. Im more talking about buying additional access for ur alpha toon. Like allowing to train t2 mods or allowe d to train other races ect ect Kinda like swtor did. Allow you to slowly purchase yourself to a full access clone without actually subbing I doubt that will ever happen in that way, as that would open up all the abuse scenarios they're trying to avoid right now. Buy access to Cyno skill, never pay again, free cyno alt forever. Nope. They'd lose the usage of the skill once the sub lapsed, if for instance you were to stop payment, the only effective so on your main would be that in the skills listed in the blog.
=]|[=
|
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
623
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:12:32 -
[370] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Indanu wrote:-+-+-¦-¦ -ò-¦-¦-¦, -Å -Ç-¦-¦ -¦-ï-+ -é-¦-¦-¦ -+-é-¦-¦-é-î 10 -+-¦-é. -+-é-+-¦-+-Å-Ä -+-+-¦-+-+-ü-¦-â. English bro. Americans are to lazy to learn a second language or use google translate( i can say that cause im american) Rough translation: I was glad to give you 10 years, cancelling my subscription. Don't forget the threat to go play Elite.
@Roenok Baalnorn: -£-+-¦-â -+-+ -Å -+-+-¦-é-î -ü-¦-+-¦ -+-¦-é-¦-Ç-+-¦-+?
(Google Translate of "Can I have your stuff?")
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
|
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
95
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:12:34 -
[371] - Quote
Neva Second wrote:In an effort to increase players I think its a great concept, if I hadn't purchased a 6mo subscription out of the gate I would not still be playing years later. Eve takes time to wrap your head around and see how the game differs from other MMO's. Having time to train up some basic skills and experience it without hitting your wallet is a good thing for everyone.
*However: As a bitter vet who uses capitals pretty frequently I would love CCP to reconsider the Cyno skill exclusion. Many players like me have 1-2 accounts with nothing but cyno alts to help move their caps around the board.
So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region.
On the bright side hunting capitals would become a thing again ... although much much easier |
Grookshank
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
119
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:12:54 -
[372] - Quote
Please restrict the Alpha Clone accounts like the trials, so that only one can be launched and not on top of an omega one. It is *not* about the ganging and restricting their safety in high-sec. It is about people having free scout alts in many systems, on wormholes, etc.
Please do not let this happen.
If you want to give players free to play access, they don't need multiple accounts to try out the game and eventually upgrade to an Omega Clone, but it would be massively abused to enable players to log in an army of free alts at the same time.
Please do not let this happen.
|
Indanu
Pact Of Honour Red Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:13:20 -
[373] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Indanu wrote:-+-+-¦-¦ -ò-¦-¦-¦, -Å -Ç-¦-¦ -¦-ï-+ -é-¦-¦-¦ -+-é-¦-¦-é-î 10 -+-¦-é. -+-é-+-¦-+-Å-Ä -+-+-¦-+-+-ü-¦-â. English bro. Americans are to lazy to learn a second language or use google translate( i can say that cause im american) Rough translation: I was glad to give you 10 years, cancelling my subscription. Our first Russian casualty of the New Alpha Order.
realy? Russia casualitu player?
I'll give my opinion . okay? I 'll explain that kills f2p games , all the games that I personally played |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1076
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:14:03 -
[374] - Quote
Quality product almost always sells.
Why not focus all these efforts on making the product better, rather than simply opening up more avenues to selling it?
I can't say this is wholly a terrible idea, but CCP isn't simply aren't addressing attrition enough, thus it leaves a terrible suspicion in the player base that you are just hoping to burn out the life of this game in an ungracious manner, milking it for all the worth that is left in it.
Yes, this may get new blood in, but the past years have just had terrible and sweeping changes which leave left persistent subscribers scratching their heads as to why they are even subbing any more. Hilariously emotional balancing on capitals, draconian changes to jump drives, a gutting of sov mechanics and content seeds, a stale and brittle ship meta, etc.
Work on the NPE driving players to seek other players. Make holding space actually worth something. Fix the dinosaur standings mechanics so joining FW isn't a life long 90s MUD era grind to fix.
Throw a bone to the veteran, persistent subscribers, and soon.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Indanu
Pact Of Honour Red Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:16:13 -
[375] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Indanu wrote:-+-+-¦-¦ -ò-¦-¦-¦, -Å -Ç-¦-¦ -¦-ï-+ -é-¦-¦-¦ -+-é-¦-¦-é-î 10 -+-¦-é. -+-é-+-¦-+-Å-Ä -+-+-¦-+-+-ü-¦-â. English bro. Americans are to lazy to learn a second language or use google translate( i can say that cause im american) Rough translation: I was glad to give you 10 years, cancelling my subscription. Don't forget the threat to go play Elite. @Roenok Baalnorn: -£-+-¦-â -+-+ -Å -+-+-¦-é-î -ü-¦-+-¦ -+-¦-é-¦-Ç-+-¦-+? (Google Translate of "Can I have your stuff?") -+-¦-é -+-¦ -+-+-¦-¦-ê-î, -+-+-é-+-+-â -ç-é-+ -+-+-¦ -+-¦-+-î -¦-¦-+-¦-é-î -+-¦ -é-¦-¦-Å -¦-+-+-é-Ç-¦-¦-é
@Goole translate "No you can not, because I'm too lazy to make a contract with you" |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8662
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:16:45 -
[376] - Quote
Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick....
That's the entire purpose of this.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
|
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
38
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:17:39 -
[377] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region. Read the list in the devblog, will you. Or better, use the browser search and put in "cyno" You're welcome. Sheesh. |
Asgard 2
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:17:43 -
[378] - Quote
CCP Falcon,
I have friends who have stopped playing ages ago, and who have let their accounts run out while sitting inside their Super Capitals. What happens if they log back in on an Alpha Account inside a Super Cap?
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
938
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:18:13 -
[379] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:Neva Second wrote:In an effort to increase players I think its a great concept, if I hadn't purchased a 6mo subscription out of the gate I would not still be playing years later. Eve takes time to wrap your head around and see how the game differs from other MMO's. Having time to train up some basic skills and experience it without hitting your wallet is a good thing for everyone.
*However: As a bitter vet who uses capitals pretty frequently I would love CCP to reconsider the Cyno skill exclusion. Many players like me have 1-2 accounts with nothing but cyno alts to help move their caps around the board. So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region. On the bright side hunting capitals would become a thing again ... although much much easier The only way is that these 30-40 accounts would have to first be subscribed and then reactivated every time you want to use them to cyno. In that case, so what?
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5153
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:18:55 -
[380] - Quote
Ryzhik Belka wrote:Swarms of ventures will drive mineral costs to zero.
Yeah, no.
Back when we were routinely hitting 45,000 people logged in we did not see this. Now we are typically around 25,000. How many people do you think are going to logging in?
These kind of histrionics are just foolish.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1611
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:20:07 -
[381] - Quote
Asgard 2 wrote:CCP Falcon,
I have friends who have stopped playing ages ago, and who have let their accounts run out while sitting inside their Super Capitals. What happens if they log back in on an Alpha Account inside a Super Cap?
Read. The. F*cking. Blog.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5153
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:20:21 -
[382] - Quote
Asgard 2 wrote:CCP Falcon,
I have friends who have stopped playing ages ago, and who have let their accounts run out while sitting inside their Super Capitals. What happens if they log back in on an Alpha Account inside a Super Cap?
Hahahaha...
Maybe they should pay their sub until they get the super safe.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
120
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:21:27 -
[383] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick.... That's the entire purpose of this.
i'm not entirely sure what's wrong with that. Having two parallel subscription models isn't a bad thing. If someone wants to play fremium where they pay for the game they want and choose to play the 'small' eve universe for free, I can't fault them for buying SKINS, or maybe paying a little extra $$ to unlock a specific part of the game like a ship class, or maybe T2 modules. And then paying a little extra $$ to buy plex for skill injectors to train instantly instead of over time. Considering that you already pay $100 or more every year on this game, whats crazy about someone paying $80 for a hacked down version of the game? |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15124
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:22:29 -
[384] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Quality product almost always sells.
Why not focus all these efforts on making the product better, rather than simply opening up more avenues to selling it?
I can't say this is wholly a terrible idea, but CCP isn't simply aren't addressing attrition enough, thus it leaves a terrible suspicion in the player base that you are just hoping to burn out the life of this game in an ungracious manner, milking it for all the worth that is left in it.
Yes, this may get new blood in, but the past years have just had terrible and sweeping changes which leave left persistent subscribers scratching their heads as to why they are even subbing any more. Hilariously emotional balancing on capitals, draconian changes to jump drives, a gutting of sov mechanics and content seeds, a stale and brittle ship meta, etc.
Work on the NPE driving players to seek other players. Make holding space actually worth something. Fix the dinosaur standings mechanics so joining FW isn't a life long 90s MUD era grind to fix.
Throw a bone to the veteran, persistent subscribers, and soon. Amen.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
Marsha Mallow
2900
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:22:39 -
[385] - Quote
Noga Taranogas wrote:-to have omega players creating alphas for quick attack fleets that no one can id will be a problem. 600 players in an alliance create 600 alphas all in cruisers even with skill limits is still 600 untraceable players back to the alliance. These 600 alphas who are really alliance X can be used to harass alliance X blues without alliance X being exposed. Keep the system in place that if you have an Omega logged in, you can't have an Alpha running -great and all, but you just don't have your Omega running...
To prevent abuse of meta-alpha'ing - Might just be me but this sounds hilarious. Btw any group that does this will get it repaid in turn. There are several alliances now capable of pulling very high numbers. I doubt they'd even ninja about pretending it isn't them, they'll be chestbeating and falling all over the forums smugging in no time. If it became seriously exploited CCP can always smack the alliance leaders with a temp ban to curb the practice. But for all you know it might end up being a content generator rather than a griefing tool. Although it does seem like a workaround to the fatigue changes that would allow armies to be stationed in multiple spots, which is probably a legit concern.
Jenn aSide wrote:Some are surprised that there is not more anger at the announcement. I think that can be summed up by 1 thing, "anger fatigue". We've been slapped around so much the last couple years, everything from jump fatigue to skill injection and all the rest, that it's almost hard to get angry anymore lol. I mean, who wasn't expecting this? To be fair tho Jenn, most of the complainers who tried to block these changes were hardcore forumites playing Skill Queue Online themselves, who had set themselves up as rabid gatekeepers on a range of topics and simply couldn't handle being contradicted by CCP. The sky has not fallen because tradable SP was introduced. Even the people who yelled the loudest over the Isabotter ban are still around. Phoebe was probably mistimed and should have been introduced in conjunction with the cap changes so that people didn't mass unsub their cap alts in the interim, granted. Hindsight is always clearer - but in reality a lot of us did support the change at the time to try shake things up - and it worked for areas like lowsec and WH space.
The complaint that I don't get here is the 'oh god we're going to be overrun by kiddies and gold sellers and bots.' Uhm, this isn't the type of game that is likely to attract or retain kiddies. They'll be a nuisance at best - and we could request the ability to block Alphas entirely from ingame chat if we personally find them so annoying. 5+ years ago Jita was overflowing with temp gold sellers - and they have dwindled partly because they struggle to compete with Plex prices, and partly because CCP gave us an insta report block button that appears to be acted upon super fast. It's true if that behaviour is evident CCP may need to hire more GMs, but that would be the result of a massive influx of completely new players.
From comments I've seen in the past the vast majority of new subs actually come from the existing pool of unsubbed players, of which there are millions. If anything, unless there's a dramatic marketing strategy that actually works to pull in completely fresh players, chances are the majority of Alphas will be returning players. How is this a bad thing?
Svara - haha u said flow
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5153
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:23:11 -
[386] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote: "How many greek letters can we squeeze between alpha and omega? As many as we can divise payment schemes for muahaha"
24
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Captain Torlek
Nocturnal Romance The Initiative.
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:23:14 -
[387] - Quote
most of the devblogs i have posted on i have been quite negative
usually i think the proposals are quite crazy, See fozziesov and jump fatigue
but i think alsong as this is implemented correctly with some restrictions it should be ok
i would say change the trial system so that 1 alpha account can be used with other omega accounts logged in (us bitter vets like our unknown alts) would really like cynosural field generator skill but fully understand the reasons why that won't be included and support them
would like to see in highsec the alpha clones be restricted to amber safety level, so this would not allow for a massive increase in ganking. and require new players to venture into lowsec/nullsec for pvp (just a thought)
not sure about limiting it to specific races as new players would not know which race they would like so might be best to leave it available to try out all the different ships and weapon systems.
i don't see this as a change to eve in terms of the main mechanics, its still internet spaceships.
just don't want to see specialised blueprints that are purchased for real life money, entering the game and providing a big advantage to real life wallet warriors.
o7 |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
38
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:24:20 -
[388] - Quote
Asgard 2 wrote:I have friends who have stopped playing ages ago, and who have let their accounts run out while sitting inside their Super Capitals. What happens if they log back in on an Alpha Account inside a Super Cap?
Let's sing the reprise of; "Read the devblog, will you, you're welcome."
It's a fantastic song. I should write it.
Quote:Q: What happens if I log in as an Alpha but IGÇÖm in a ship with required Omega skills? A: You will be allowed to fly the ship until the next time you dock, but any ship bonuses or attributes will not gain the benefits of Omega skills. So basically, fly a hunk of junk with no bonus attributes and likely all modules being offline. Good luck. |
Grapez
Moviintti
18
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:25:35 -
[389] - Quote
The reason for this change, the ONLY REASON, is to get more players. It's clear that the PCU number will increase, but CCP won't get money from all of those.
This is dumb, IMO. The max daily PCU right now is about 25k. That's more than when I started this account over 10 years ago, and back then I certainly didn't get the feeling that Eve was empty or needed more players.
If CCP wants there to be more players, then focus on making the game better. Loading up Eve (and your petition queues...) with players who aren't even paying you is straight stupid. |
Voxinian
102
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:25:51 -
[390] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick.... That's the entire purpose of this.
Any company needs to make changes to survive. Good or bad, micro transactions have become a normal thing on the gaming market and it is proven to work (most of the time). If that will make the game/product better or not is an other discussion. In the end it's about CCP having a profitable game. Without profit, no EVE.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5154
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:28:07 -
[391] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote:Asgard 2 wrote:I have friends who have stopped playing ages ago, and who have let their accounts run out while sitting inside their Super Capitals. What happens if they log back in on an Alpha Account inside a Super Cap? Let's sing the reprise of; "Read the devblog, will you, you're welcome."It's a fantastic song. I should write it. Quote:Q: What happens if I log in as an Alpha but IGÇÖm in a ship with required Omega skills? A: You will be allowed to fly the ship until the next time you dock, but any ship bonuses or attributes will not gain the benefits of Omega skills. So basically, fly a hunk of junk with no bonus attributes and likely all modules being offline. Good luck.
Or just pay your sub for that account. Log in, get your stuff safe. If you don't plan on using that account...then don't and it remains safe. If want to use the account, but not the super, then sell the super, extract all the omega skills, sell it all for lots of ISK, let your sub expire and play as an alpha with a fat wallet.
Anything else you need my help on? Making toast? Pouring a cup of coffee? Tying your shoes?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Tynian Erath
Svea Rike Circle-Of-Two
9
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:28:34 -
[392] - Quote
Will apis show what kind of account people have active? So it will be easy to see that its a alpha or an omega at a glance when you do recuitment. |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
95
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:29:04 -
[393] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region. Read the list in the devblog, will you. Or better, use the browser search and put in "cyno" You're welcome. Sheesh.
Was a reply to someone request cyno be added to list of skill ...read the posts...Sheesh |
tasman devil
Puritans FREE GATES COALITION
80
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:29:14 -
[394] - Quote
Fine, great.
Team Size Matters wrote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, but we are communicating now specifically so that they can help gather your feedback and bring it to us for the summit in September, where we will be flying out the entire CSM for the first time. If you would rather talk to us directly, the forum thread for this blog is a great place to start and we will be opening up other channels, such as a Reddit AMA, in the coming weeks.
But do please tell me why the hell do we vote for CSM again when they aren't even notified of this.
I mean English may be a second language to me but it does seem to me that you neither thought nor really wanted to bring in on such a game-changing decision.
Also they are now relegated to "ticket counters". Nice work!
I don't belive in reincarnation
I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2740
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:29:15 -
[395] - Quote
"Let's alpha that miner!", totally new meaning!
Joke aside, let's look at the real problem:
To every new player coming from a classic f2p MMO this will look like the most greedy over-the-top pay2win MMO of all time:
- Can only use ships to run level 2 missions? Buy a PLEX with $ and get more ISK! - Only extremely slow SP accumulation? Buy more PLEX with $ and get more SP! - Only crappy ships and modules? Pay 15$ a month to access all the other toys! - Paid those 15$ and now you need even more SP and ISK? Get some more PLEX for $!!!
This just looks really horrible for a new player and they will look at the game and say: "No way I can play competitive without throwing money at CCP! What kind of monument to the pay2win gods is that?!!"
Now before you all cry "but it still needs player skill to fly so it's not pay to win". Every game needs player skill, so this argument is just dumb so there are either no p2w games or this is one of the worst and I hope you are glad I told you that so you did not make a fool out of yourself by brining that argument. yw.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
422
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:30:07 -
[396] - Quote
Great. Lower entry barrier. Limit alpha clones to 1 client next to omega client.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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EvilSource
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:30:33 -
[397] - Quote
Suggestion Time!
At 5m SP give a free month of Omega automatically, this will encourage people to stay until 5m, at this point they well get a month of premium skills, they will then have them disabled after 1 month which will encourage then to sub to keep them and continue tip fly there shiny new BC or whatever.
Thanks!
I love this F2P idea! |
tasman devil
Puritans FREE GATES COALITION
80
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:32:51 -
[398] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:"Let's alpha that miner!", totally new meaning!
Joke aside, let's look at the real problem:
To every new player coming from a classic f2p MMO this will look like the most greedy over-the-top pay2win MMO of all time:
- Can only use ships to run level 2 missions? Buy a PLEX with $ and get more ISK! - Only extremely slow SP accumulation? Buy more PLEX with $ and get more SP! - Only crappy ships and modules? Pay 15$ a month to access all the other toys! - Paid those 15$ and now you need even more SP and ISK? Get some more PLEX for $!!!
This just looks really horrible for a new player and they will look at the game and say: "No way I can play competitive without throwing money at CCP! What kind of monument to the pay2win gods is that?!!"
Now before you all cry "but it still needs player skill to fly so it's not pay to win". Every game needs player skill, so this argument is just dumb so there are either no p2w games or this is one of the worst and I hope you are glad I told you that so you did not make a fool out of yourself by brining that argument. yw. There is one bit that you don't have to fork out immediately 100Gé¼ for a Tirpitz.
You'll fork out 12x15Gé¼ to get to a BS that you'll lose in an instant. To 100 catalysts, oh! The humanities!
I don't belive in reincarnation
I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15126
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:33:27 -
[399] - Quote
I think they should make them Alphas pay for occupying petition queues.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
Escuro
Monks of War Out of Sight.
43
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:33:55 -
[400] - Quote
Awesome update!
A lot of friends will surely try EVE.
Also, limit the clients to N omega + 1 Alfa |
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient
2207
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:35:09 -
[401] - Quote
This all seems pretty reasonable and responsible. CCP has to be able to compete with all the F2P games out there and this proposal allows them to do that while not harming the fabric of the Eve universe.
Sorry fellow bittervets but, there's just nothing here that a reasonable person would find objectionable. Let's give it a shot and see how it all plays out.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1905
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:36:55 -
[402] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:I bet it wont even take 24h until someone has written a bot that automatically creates new characters in bulk and then mines, ganks, etc with them. When the characters get banned, the bot will just reconnect for new IP, modify the computers hardware ID and start the process again.
At that level of sophistication, your 'bot' may be Turing-ready. :P
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
95
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:37:05 -
[403] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:Neva Second wrote:In an effort to increase players I think its a great concept, if I hadn't purchased a 6mo subscription out of the gate I would not still be playing years later. Eve takes time to wrap your head around and see how the game differs from other MMO's. Having time to train up some basic skills and experience it without hitting your wallet is a good thing for everyone.
*However: As a bitter vet who uses capitals pretty frequently I would love CCP to reconsider the Cyno skill exclusion. Many players like me have 1-2 accounts with nothing but cyno alts to help move their caps around the board. So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region. On the bright side hunting capitals would become a thing again ... although much much easier The only way is that these 30-40 accounts would have to first be subscribed and then reactivated every time you want to use them to cyno. In that case, so what?
This was a reply to someone wanting to add Cyno to Alpha skill list - in which case free cyno alt everywhere |
Grapez
Moviintti
19
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:37:40 -
[404] - Quote
I don't get the "CCP needs to do this to survive" argument. CCP survived for years at the same (or lower!) PCU than now. And the answer is to give the game away for free? What? If people can't get hooked after a trail period, then they can't get hooked... |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5154
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:38:55 -
[405] - Quote
Grapez wrote:The reason for this change, the ONLY REASON, is to get more players. It's clear that the PCU number will increase, but CCP won't get money from all of those.
This is dumb, IMO. The max daily PCU right now is about 25k. That's more than when I started this account over 10 years ago, and back then I certainly didn't get the feeling that Eve was empty or needed more players.
If CCP wants there to be more players, then focus on making the game better. Loading up Eve (and your petition queues...) with players who aren't even paying you is straight stupid.
Unless people decide to switch over to Omega and start paying to access the stuff they can't as an Alpha. This mitigates the complaint that people pay for a sub just to skill up basic skills. Now that can largely be done without paying, and if a player decides he wants to have access to other parts of the game in terms of skills, and the in game items those skills engender....then money for CCP and more players for us.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Danixex Gosu
Yumping Amok Apocalypse Now.
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:43:41 -
[406] - Quote
allowing people unlimited mining accounts seems ridiculous.
for the cost of one plexed account with orca skills, a player could also have unlimited Alpha clones mining in a venture while not suffering the cost of going back to a station, which is usually the problem for small hold sized ships such as the venture.
This hardly seems to be the intent of this update and i feel the mining side of alpha clones should be looked at more closely.
i made a thread about this in general discussion, i feel it is a strong enough part to warrant such a thing. |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
148
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:43:43 -
[407] - Quote
So F2P + premium subscription. Typical model
TBH
This is quite good, as long as the constraints listed in devblog are held in place (slower learning, 5m max, only subset available, etc.).
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Zockhandra
Dystopian Heaven Circle-Of-Two
30
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:44:18 -
[408] - Quote
Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?
A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.
Quote from CCP Announcement
Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for? If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).
If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.
Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you.
Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned,
across from the bubble and into your hull.
|
Kirin Amatin
Kirin Beverages Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:44:50 -
[409] - Quote
There are a few ways this can be easily abused, mostly connected to hordes of cheap/free accounts.
- Support Griffin wings for PvP... keep a small stable (~10ish) logged in, bring them in to the fight as you see fit
- If I'm reading the skill list correctly, you can still put together a fairly decent ganking catalyst (or ganking vexor) army on these free accounts
- For larger alliances, it's completely free to have a spare account logged into each system. (in a POS or citadel). Watching local... (partly mitigated by the lack of cloaking)
- Alternating between paying and non-paying for certain forms of trader alts seems like it will be a thing... (even more than it is now, since you're not completely shut out of the account)
I'm not sure if locking simultaneous logins is a good idea... because Omega clones "degrade" to Alpha state when not paid. The frustration from that for someone coming back might be a bit much. For someone dedicated to getting around the problem, there are always ways. (as well as causing silly issues for anyone behind certain forms of NATting router) |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2956
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:45:35 -
[410] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:Neva Second wrote:In an effort to increase players I think its a great concept, if I hadn't purchased a 6mo subscription out of the gate I would not still be playing years later. Eve takes time to wrap your head around and see how the game differs from other MMO's. Having time to train up some basic skills and experience it without hitting your wallet is a good thing for everyone.
*However: As a bitter vet who uses capitals pretty frequently I would love CCP to reconsider the Cyno skill exclusion. Many players like me have 1-2 accounts with nothing but cyno alts to help move their caps around the board. So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region. On the bright side hunting capitals would become a thing again ... although much much easier Alpha can't use cyno.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
|
Kirin Amatin
Kirin Beverages Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:46:47 -
[411] - Quote
Zockhandra wrote: Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for? If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).
If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.
If you don't want to pay for access to those skills, you don't keep access to those skills. You start paying again, you get your skills back... how is this hard to understand?
But unlike currently, you can log in and tell the new corp members that things were so much better "back in my day" without necessarily paying for the privilege. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5156
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:46:53 -
[412] - Quote
Zockhandra wrote:Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?
A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.
Quote from CCP Announcement
Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for? If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).
If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.
Just pay your sub and enjoy your advantage over the Alpha clones and stop whining.
Jesus, these people wanting the consumer surplus for free...you are just ridiculous.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
ugh zug
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
120
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:47:22 -
[413] - Quote
there should be a limit to how many active alpha accounts one can log into on one machine like no more than 3.
cynosural field theory, considering most capital pilots have a second account for lighting cynos i doubt very much ccp is willing to enable payers to let go of this. if they did add it however, i would be happy to have extra cyno alt accounts to allow all my paying accounts to have capitals.
ISK transfers from alpha accounts and to alpha accounts should be disabled.
Want me to shut up?
Remove content from my post,1B.
Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
|
Danixex Gosu
Yumping Amok Apocalypse Now.
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:49:15 -
[414] - Quote
ugh zug wrote:there should be a limit to how many active alpha accounts one can log into on one machine like no more than 3.
cynosural field theory, considering most capital pilots have a second account for lighting cynos i doubt very much ccp is willing to enable payers to let go of this. if they did add it however, i would be happy to have extra cyno alt accounts to allow all my paying accounts to have capitals.
ISK transfers from alpha accounts and to alpha accounts should be disabled.
not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but alpha clones wont be able to light cynos. |
Captain Campion
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
21
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:49:26 -
[415] - Quote
It strikes me as odd that you need a separate account for each alt - try remembering all that login info?! - rather than just being able to make all these on one account and train them all - but when you make a subscription just choose which character it applies to.
Is there a good reason for this? To me it just seems bad.
in b4 someone says "to me you just seem bad". <3 eve |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5156
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:49:28 -
[416] - Quote
Kirin Amatin wrote:There are a few ways this can be easily abused, mostly connected to hordes of cheap/free accounts.
- Support Griffin wings for PvP... keep a small stable (~10ish) logged in, bring them in to the fight as you see fit
- If I'm reading the skill list correctly, you can still put together a fairly decent ganking catalyst (or ganking vexor) army on these free accounts
- For larger alliances, it's completely free to have a spare account logged into each system. (in a POS or citadel). Watching local... (partly mitigated by the lack of cloaking)
- Alternating between paying and non-paying for certain forms of trader alts seems like it will be a thing... (even more than it is now, since you're not completely shut out of the account)
I'm not sure if locking simultaneous logins is a good idea... because Omega clones "degrade" to Alpha state when not paid. The frustration from that for someone coming back might be a bit much. For someone dedicated to getting around the problem, there are always ways. (as well as causing silly issues for anyone behind certain forms of NATting router)
Which can be solved by limiting simultaneous logins. This is still up in the air....if you read the Devblog.
Edit:
And yeah, there are always ways around the EULA, so what. The idea that it will be wide spread is a bit of a stretch if you ask me.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Zockhandra
Dystopian Heaven Circle-Of-Two
30
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:50:27 -
[417] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Zockhandra wrote:Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?
A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.
Quote from CCP Announcement
Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for? If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).
If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there. Just pay your sub and enjoy your advantage over the Alpha clones and stop whining. Jesus, these people wanting the consumer surplus for free...you are just ridiculous.
Okay, so what happens when you need to evac your stuff from a pos/Citadel. But then you cant fly your x ship.
Or your in a super, but only you cant jump and you cant pay a sub because x problem? You now cant jump or defend yourself, you have to stay logged off because suddenly your clone decides "oops im actually super dumb"
Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you.
Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned,
across from the bubble and into your hull.
|
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2956
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:51:29 -
[418] - Quote
Zockhandra wrote:Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?
A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.
Quote from CCP Announcement
Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for? If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).
If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.
Consider a player returning after say a 4 month inactivity. Now they cannot fly their ratting mission battleships and make enough money to buy a plex? Thats super restrictive. At the moment that player can't even log into the game, let alone fly those ships.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
95
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:52:37 -
[419] - Quote
Voxinian wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Lunarstorm95 wrote:I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick.... That's the entire purpose of this. Any company needs to make changes to survive. Good or bad, micro transactions have become a normal thing on the gaming market and it is proven to work (most of the time). If that will make the game/product better or not is an other discussion. In the end it's about CCP having a profitable game. Without profit, no EVE.
Micro-transactions... Ahhh all those clothes I could buy if only there was a common area on stations where I could walk around and chat with other players whilst showing them off ..... maybe someone should suggest it for future development |
Mina Askold
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:52:49 -
[420] - Quote
With the new changes coming to eve my drive to play is going fast. I don't know how the rest of you feel but this whole F2P idea just screams fail, and if its as bad as most people think it will be or heck even half this may be the end for me.
Unless they make free accounts yellow safety only this is going to be a **** show, and I don't see myself staying for it.
I will be sticking it out to see how it goes but I'm not holding my breath
They have already nerfed or dumbed down just about everything in this game that took even a small bit of skill and have taken the griefing to a whole new lvl I just can't see myself giving them more money or isk to continue to ruin a game I have loved for so many years
At one point I ran many accounts at times as many as 10, I have been running one for over a year now......main reason for the trim down is the changes suck most of the changes they claim people asked for when they didn't.....
CCP you act like you know what your game needs...do you even play? almost all the changes in the past year have made things worse on almost every level save for the few forumwarriors ...........it was a good run for almost 10 years myself but if the crap keeps up 1 will be zero.....I seem to remember a letter from hilmar saying that this **** would stop and that they would return to the core of the game they loved so much....I can see now that was a total line of BS.......
I know nothing lost and don't let the door hit me on the way out but its that exact attitude that has taken 40K to 25k and no you can't have my stuff |
|
Zockhandra
Dystopian Heaven Circle-Of-Two
30
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:53:27 -
[421] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Zockhandra wrote:Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?
A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.
Quote from CCP Announcement
Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for? If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).
If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.
Consider a player returning after say a 4 month inactivity. Now they cannot fly their ratting mission battleships and make enough money to buy a plex? Thats super restrictive. At the moment that player can't even log into the game, let alone fly those ships.
PRECISELY, Theres no precedant for them having a BAD experience and leaving because they cant log in. As opposed to having their Family jewels severed and left for dead.
Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you.
Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned,
across from the bubble and into your hull.
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
370
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:54:03 -
[422] - Quote
One thing I didn't like about SWTOR was how much it waved "Sub now and we'll get these annoying messages out of your face!"
As for the farming and botting problem, let's just say I've seen what happens when you have a lot of passive systems in an F2P EVE-like before. I don't play that game any more, either. Making tech 1 ammo, ships, and mods with "casual friend" accounts will be a thing. It doesn't cost anything but a few steps to anonymize. In that game, infrastructure in whole star systems had been wiped out by admin action for being run by bot and other illicit multiple account player activity.
Personal experience says the correct response to this change is to run away screaming and not look back.
A signature :o
|
Naxirian
Target Acquired
35
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:54:12 -
[423] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Greetings capsuleers! Today, we are happy to announce a new change thatGÇÖs coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client. In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a characterGÇÖs race. A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change.
Please give Alpha accounts a restriction to prevent them being logged on at the same time as other accounts. I see nothing in the dev blog that would prevent users with high end system from logging in 3-4 low skill logi alts, or griffin alts, or using tons of free Alpha accounts to pull FW missions and farm tens of millions of LP (essentially destroying the FW LP markets), or any number of other abuses.
The system as an idea is great, I like that new players can essentially try the game for free for as long as they like, and progress to a meaningful stage without their trial ending. But it should have the same restrictions to multiple log ins that a trial account has or it will get abused beyond belief by existing players.
Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z 990FX
AMD FX-8350 @ 4.8GHz
2 x R9 290X 4GB Crossfire @ 1200MHz
Full EKWB Custom Watercooling Loop
16GB Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR3 RAM @ 1866MHz
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5156
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:54:16 -
[424] - Quote
Captain Campion wrote:It strikes me as odd that you need a separate account for each alt - try remembering all that login info?! - rather than just being able to make all these on one account and train them all - but when you make a subscription just choose which character it applies to.
Is there a good reason for this? To me it just seems bad.
in b4 someone says "to me you just seem bad". <3 eve
Keepass is an awesome thing. I don't know any of my Eve passwords (they are really long psuedo-randomly generated to prevent people from getting into my account). And my usernames are also stored there as well. Copy paste, copy paste, log in.
The reason for multiple accounts used to be training your alts and main simultaneously plus logging in multiple accounts to do things.
Now with the free Alpha clone accounts it could be possible for people to make a very large number of alt accounts and abuse this feature by logging them all in at once and doing stuff. There maybe some validity to this, but this can be mitigated by limiting the number of logged in Alpha accounts.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
95
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:57:56 -
[425] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:Neva Second wrote:In an effort to increase players I think its a great concept, if I hadn't purchased a 6mo subscription out of the gate I would not still be playing years later. Eve takes time to wrap your head around and see how the game differs from other MMO's. Having time to train up some basic skills and experience it without hitting your wallet is a good thing for everyone.
*However: As a bitter vet who uses capitals pretty frequently I would love CCP to reconsider the Cyno skill exclusion. Many players like me have 1-2 accounts with nothing but cyno alts to help move their caps around the board. So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region. On the bright side hunting capitals would become a thing again ... although much much easier Alpha can't use cyno.
And a good thing too ... else my reply to someone requesting that Alphas be allowed to use cynos would be totally pointless |
May'n Nome
Elements Arpeggio Vesperia
23
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:58:37 -
[426] - Quote
20 Pages already... I am glad I skipped much of it.
First off; if any devs beat me to answering on any of these thoughts, let me know. Below. I will be watching this thread closely.
First, I saw concerns about Jump Cloning...so I did a search in the article that lists the skills available to the Alpha Clones and guess what is NOT in the list for any of them...INFOMORPH PSYCHOLOGY...
Yes, it is bolded, underlined, and in caps for a good reason. Apparently some of you forgot that skill is needed for Jump Clones AND how to use the Crtl-F function to find on a page a word you are looking for. All I had to type in was Infomorph to find out that it was nowhere in the list. So yeah, Jump Clones are out or the Alphas already.
Now looking through the skills, I am glad to see some limits placed. But some of the limits could be upped to give the Newbro Alphas a chance against some of us with even 8 months of experience and skills in the game.
First, beef up the Armor and Shield Resistance Compensation skills to 3. This will allow them to get more out of their tanking for Shield or Armor.
Second, limit logins for an Alpha to one account on one computer and not on the same email address and IP address. Do not know if there is a way to detect people hiding their IP address. Any attempt to login that character from another computer should be met with an alert or suspension to prevent multiboxing or throwaway Ganking fleets. Yes, this applies to people who have Omega Accounts as well.
Third, set safeties to yellow at minimum in High Security Space.
Fourth ( and this is from personal experience) allow some some form of planetary interaction (Cert 2 or 3 maybe?) for Alphas. Either of those Certs limits their impact on the in-game while letting them explore this facet of the game.
Fifth, checking APIs for Account Type. This allows Corps and Alliances to recruit them if they want or tell them no and why. Also make this something that can be picked in Corp searches for Alpha-friendly Corps/Alliances.
Sixth, we need a new "This is EVE" trailer for the Alphas to entice them.
Anyways, this is my two cents on the matter. Let me know what you guys think.
"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
|
Nire Retipuj
The Dutch East India Company Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:59:38 -
[427] - Quote
I feel a little like I should be reimbursed ca$h money for the monthly fees I paid up until I reached 5mil SP back in I think starting in 2006.
Free2Play now, huh?
Let's see how long it takes before CCP becomes NCSoft.
Let's see how long it takes before Eve becomes WoW.
Let's see how long it takes before logging into Eve is a chore and a lesson in tolerance more than it is fun game to play.
Then I can just get the same experience in RL for free. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
602
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:02:07 -
[428] - Quote
Zockhandra wrote:Okay, so what happens when you need to evac your stuff from a pos/Citadel. But then you cant fly your x ship. Better activate a PLEX first.
Quote:Or your in a super, but only you cant jump and you cant pay a sub because x problem? You now cant jump or defend yourself, you have to stay logged off because suddenly your clone decides "oops im actually super dumb" Yep, better stay logged off, just like what happens today for accounts with no sub/PLEX.
Quote:Alternatively, your a new player who can no longer afford to sub after 4 months of subbed play, now all your skills are gone and your back to square one? Yep, that's reasonable for a f2p model.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5157
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:03:22 -
[429] - Quote
tasman devil wrote:Fine, great. Team Size Matters wrote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, but we are communicating now specifically so that they can help gather your feedback and bring it to us for the summit in September, where we will be flying out the entire CSM for the first time. If you would rather talk to us directly, the forum thread for this blog is a great place to start and we will be opening up other channels, such as a Reddit AMA, in the coming weeks. But do please tell me why the hell do we vote for CSM again when they aren't even notified of this. I mean English may be a second language to me but it does seem to me that you neither thought nor really wanted to bring in on such a game-changing decision. Also they are now relegated to "ticket counters". Nice work!
They notified the CSM and us at about the same time with 2 months before this is implemented. This way they can get maximum feedback. What is the problem here, you'd rather be kept in the dark longer?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
ArmyOfMe
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
608
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:05:16 -
[430] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:[
5) These free players are going to suck up resources that are already heavily competed for. Specifically exploration sites. As it catches on we are going to have to compete more and more with free players to the point where grinding is going to become so grindy thats literally all you can do in game is try to grind a few million isk. So CCP will have to increase the amount of resources seeded in the game to match the demand, and honestly they havent been impressing me lately. I feel like they are concentrating a lot of revenue generation and not so much on making the game entertaining. I feel like what is done for upgrades in game is a rush job that is usually delayed multiple times and still buggy as hell when it comes out but revenue generation seems to be in nearly every major update.
Yeah, because all of this was such an issue back when the PCU was double what it is now
ArmyOfMe wrote:
1) If you get bumped then that webber wont do anything.
baltec1 wrote:
We use the exact same tactic for titans and they enter warp instantly.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2932
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:06:23 -
[431] - Quote
well if other MMOs have taught me anything this is a sign of the end times :/
meh at least this way i don't have to pay for my exec alts
Citadel worm hole tax
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UNICR0N
Kitchen Sink Kapitals Caldari alliance 54683212
9
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:07:57 -
[432] - Quote
Is this EVE or Runescape? I'm starting to have trouble telling which is which...
I'm guessing this is another (Hey there capsuleers! we heard the community on what they want! So we are going to totally scrap what you think want or say and give what we want to you in the form of a suppository! ) |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
96
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:09:51 -
[433] - Quote
May'n Nome wrote:20 Pages already... I am glad I skipped much of it. First off; if any devs beat me to answering on any of these thoughts, let me know. Below. I will be watching this thread closely. First, I saw concerns about Jump Cloning...so I did a search in the article that lists the skills available to the Alpha Clones and guess what is NOT in the list for any of them... INFOMORPH PSYCHOLOGY... Yes, it is bolded, underlined, and in caps for a good reason. Apparently some of you forgot that skill is needed for Jump Clones AND how to use the Crtl-F function to find on a page a word you are looking for. All I had to type in was Infomorph to find out that it was nowhere in the list. So yeah, Jump Clones are out or the Alphas already. Now looking through the skills, I am glad to see some limits placed. But some of the limits could be upped to give the Newbro Alphas a chance against some of us with even 8 months of experience and skills in the game. First, beef up the Armor and Shield Resistance Compensation skills to 3. This will allow them to get more out of their tanking for Shield or Armor. Second, limit logins for an Alpha to one account on one computer and not on the same email address and IP address. Do not know if there is a way to detect people hiding their IP address. Any attempt to login that character from another computer should be met with an alert or suspension to prevent multiboxing or throwaway Ganking fleets. Yes, this applies to people who have Omega Accounts as well. Third, set safeties to yellow at minimum in High Security Space. Fourth ( and this is from personal experience) allow some some form of planetary interaction (Cert 2 or 3 maybe?) for Alphas. Either of those Certs limits their impact on the in-game while letting them explore this facet of the game. Fifth, checking APIs for Account Type. This allows Corps and Alliances to recruit them if they want or tell them no and why. Also make this something that can be picked in Corp searches for Alpha-friendly Corps/Alliances. Sixth, we need a new "This is EVE" trailer for the Alphas to entice them. Anyways, this is my two cents on the matter. Let me know what you guys think.
I agree with the Yellow safety and multiple account online at the same time but
I think ANY passive income will be abused
Allow Alpha pi even if limited to 1 planet and there will be players with 500 free accounts in a wormhole with one planet each on maxed extraction cycles generating ISK |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4405
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:13:11 -
[434] - Quote
In other news, CCP has announced new "golden" ammos for each race! Amarr - Conflag, Scorch, Gleam, Aurora Caldari - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike Gallente - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike Minmatar - Hail, Barrage, Quake, Tremor
Just think: no longer will OGBs be the standard reason that someone lost a fight to you. It'll because you're subbed or "p2w". Squee!
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2934
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:19:06 -
[435] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:In other news, CCP has announced new "golden" ammos for each race! Amarr - Conflag, Scorch, Gleam, Aurora Caldari - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike Gallente - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike Minmatar - Hail, Barrage, Quake, Tremor
Just think: no longer will OGBs be the standard reason that someone lost a fight to you. It'll because you're subbed or "p2w". Squee!
-Liang
why you leave out fury rage and precision for caldri Missiles are ppl too q,q
Citadel worm hole tax
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
148
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Posted - 2016.08.31 19:20:48 -
[436] - Quote
I'd add another constraint:
- cannot inject skills
This should be reserved for subbed accounts only.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
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Jasper Sinclair
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
38
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:21:26 -
[437] - Quote
I believe this will be beneficial for RvB . However we would probably like some way to tell an alpha from an omega so that a fox doesn't get in the henhouse, so to speak.
You should be allowed to have as many characters online, alpha or omega, as you have paid accounts. Just like now.
I have 2 completely untrained alts, one on each of my accounts. I like them. Can I move them to alpha accounts so I can keep them and give them some training?
Acting Blue CEO, Senior Combat Coordinator, admirer of Caracals
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Serene Repose
2828
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:21:26 -
[438] - Quote
About as inventive (left-handed) way to say "We're going Free To Play" as I've ever seen.
Noted...and logged.
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
135
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:23:09 -
[439] - Quote
Introduce permadeath. Podded Alphas are permanently gone. Remove the tech II ship and module restrictions.
Experience New Eden as a human among immortals. One play for a quarter.
Let's make EvE darker.
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Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
180
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:23:41 -
[440] - Quote
Didn-¦t check everything yet, but I assume alphaclones will have full access to Project Discovery, right? |
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Serene Audene
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:23:47 -
[441] - Quote
CCP over the skill point injector / extractor fiasco announcement , Many players who were against the idea actually asked whats coming next f2p ......
CCP - No We have no intention in the foreseeable future to make eve f2p.
At the same time over on Crossing Zebra's ...
This is how eve could go free to play
SoGǪ why couldnGÇÖt that optional F2P model apply to EVE Online?
The answer is that, with the magic of TNSPs, the model most certainly can apply to EVE. All CCP would have to do is make the EVE trial permanent and rename it as some kind of entry-level account tier. The company could announce GÇ£EVE IS NOW FREEGÇ¥ to the gaming public, and dance with glee as millions of new accounts opened overnight.
Chance Ravinne on Nov 10, 2015.
Article here |
Rhazjin
Mind Collapse Sanity is for the Weak
19
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Posted - 2016.08.31 19:24:30 -
[442] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I dont think it will end well.
CCP, stop until it will be too late. You will not gain money on this. It will not solve problems. It will cause many new ones.
This failure, by management, the development team and ect. is another example of forcing through a stupid feture that should have been shot down in the idea stage. Also, removing comments that don't agree with you is bad business. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
332
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:25:06 -
[443] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:tasman devil wrote:Fine, great. Team Size Matters wrote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, but we are communicating now specifically so that they can help gather your feedback and bring it to us for the summit in September, where we will be flying out the entire CSM for the first time. If you would rather talk to us directly, the forum thread for this blog is a great place to start and we will be opening up other channels, such as a Reddit AMA, in the coming weeks. But do please tell me why the hell do we vote for CSM again when they aren't even notified of this. I mean English may be a second language to me but it does seem to me that you neither thought nor really wanted to bring in on such a game-changing decision. Also they are now relegated to "ticket counters". Nice work! They notified the CSM and us at about the same time with 2 months before this is implemented. This way they can get maximum feedback. What is the problem here, you'd rather be kept in the dark longer? Especially considering that if the CSM was informed weeks before us people would be accusing them of collusion with some kind of CCP plot.
Neither the CCP or CSM can ever win. Everything they do is 100% evil 100% of the time.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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May'n Nome
Elements Arpeggio Vesperia
23
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:26:03 -
[444] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:May'n Nome wrote:20 Pages already... I am glad I skipped much of it. First off; if any devs beat me to answering on any of these thoughts, let me know. Below. I will be watching this thread closely. First, I saw concerns about Jump Cloning...so I did a search in the article that lists the skills available to the Alpha Clones and guess what is NOT in the list for any of them... INFOMORPH PSYCHOLOGY... Yes, it is bolded, underlined, and in caps for a good reason. Apparently some of you forgot that skill is needed for Jump Clones AND how to use the Crtl-F function to find on a page a word you are looking for. All I had to type in was Infomorph to find out that it was nowhere in the list. So yeah, Jump Clones are out or the Alphas already. Now looking through the skills, I am glad to see some limits placed. But some of the limits could be upped to give the Newbro Alphas a chance against some of us with even 8 months of experience and skills in the game. First, beef up the Armor and Shield Resistance Compensation skills to 3. This will allow them to get more out of their tanking for Shield or Armor. Second, limit logins for an Alpha to one account on one computer and not on the same email address and IP address. Do not know if there is a way to detect people hiding their IP address. Any attempt to login that character from another computer should be met with an alert or suspension to prevent multiboxing or throwaway Ganking fleets. Yes, this applies to people who have Omega Accounts as well. Third, set safeties to yellow at minimum in High Security Space. Fourth ( and this is from personal experience) allow some some form of planetary interaction (Cert 2 or 3 maybe?) for Alphas. Either of those Certs limits their impact on the in-game while letting them explore this facet of the game. Fifth, checking APIs for Account Type. This allows Corps and Alliances to recruit them if they want or tell them no and why. Also make this something that can be picked in Corp searches for Alpha-friendly Corps/Alliances. Sixth, we need a new "This is EVE" trailer for the Alphas to entice them. Anyways, this is my two cents on the matter. Let me know what you guys think. I agree with the Yellow safety and multiple account online at the same time but I think ANY passive income will be abused
Allow Alpha pi even if limited to 1 planet and there will be players with 500 free accounts in a wormhole with one planet each on maxed extraction cycles generating ISK
That is why I suggested the limiting of Alpha States to that one login computer, email, and make it so any attempt to spoof the IP address can be detected. You would really have to be dedicated to create 500 free accounts to do PI in.
"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
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Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
135
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:27:37 -
[445] - Quote
In short, CCP will remove the trial time limitation but by doing that, there will be some news on most websites and so it can attract new players.
Well, why not, it is a smart move for free adverts. But it is one of the last remaining ammo that CCP have, and if they do it right now, it will be a waste.
Why ?
Because if I remember well, 52 % of new players leave the game after 2 hours !
EVE suffers from some structural bad points. Especialy the TUTORIAL who is lacking in everything (well, it was worse some years ago), and others problems like the bad UI (especialy since the new neocom who has not intuitive icons) or the deletion of Evelopedia who probably had an impact too, etc.
I mean, the "first impression" is really important. The new player should feel like the game is great in the few first minutes, and a game should have an intuitive UI. But EVE don't sell itself decently in this few minutes...
If CCP don't correct that before using this ammo, it will be a lost occasion. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2935
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:27:55 -
[446] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Introduce permadeath. Podded Alphas are permanently gone. Remove the tech II ship and module restrictions. Up the skill cap.
Experience New Eden as a human among immortals. One play for a quarter.
Let's make EvE darker.
THIS
Citadel worm hole tax
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Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
423
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:30:38 -
[447] - Quote
I am okay with this to some extent, however there has to be limits so here are my suggestions:
1 - no level 5 skills period maximum for any of the granted skills should be in the 3 to 4 range 2 - no use of tech 2 or tech 3 items 3 - no use of faction items 4 - no use of research or research farming and no invention 5 - no multiple log ins - even if you have a paid account you cannot create a new alpha and use at same time as your paid account BOTH must be paid 6 - i see it already by no cynos 7 - no use of cloaking
Basically its a way to get people to use small t1 ships with t1 fittings to get the hang of eve for a few months vs the 14 day window, if they really like it they can sub for a few months and then get hooked like we all did many moons ago.
I have seen some ppl raging about PI and not letting them use it, I am fine with letting them use PI - again the restriction on skill level for the skills will keep it inline preventing people from creating 100s of alts.
I think the best way to control 100s of alts is to limit the number of accounts which can have active SP queues. So lets say you put a cap of 5. So I can have unlimited paid accounts but if I create more than 5 alphas the 6th gives a warning that you exceeded the maximum and you either delete one of your old accounts OR this one does not earn any SP. Or just an outright ban on account #6.
Because EvE graciously allows for multiple accounts I think its essential that we have limits both on the number of accounts and when how they can be logged in. As I suggested before you should not be allowed to play Alpha AND Omega at same time, and you should not be allowed to play multiple Alphas at same time ever.
Only paid/sub accounts should have that privilege, and there should never be a pay option to allow that, just subs only.
Thats it for now - I am willing to see how this works, and if it does bring in new people then that is great, but it should not be a way for the many theorycrafters of this game to abuse and manipulate. We are an ingenious, bitter, miserable, wonderful, amazing, evil, wonderous bunch of misfits.
Cheers ~R~ |
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
88
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:30:56 -
[448] - Quote
VonDerTann wrote:I just concerned about one thing: how about mulitple charactors under same account, if you are paid player, your main charactor is omega, the other two will regard as omega too or as alpha From what read in the dev blog thhey are treated as Omega.
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
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47 6f 64
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:32:21 -
[449] - Quote
I mean, I can't be the first to mention this....
You can still cata bank with Destroyer 4 and light 4. oh no just add one more Alpha clone account!
If I win please Evemail me.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2935
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:34:14 -
[450] - Quote
Anke Eyrou wrote:I just concerned about one thing: how about mulitple charactors under same account, if you are paid player, your main charactor is omega, the other two will regard as omega too or as alpha
please no i would rather not have to pay more for my alts ty
Citadel worm hole tax
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
602
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:34:59 -
[451] - Quote
Soltys wrote:I'd add another constraint:
- cannot inject skills
This should be reserved for subbed accounts only. Disagree - let them inject 500m carrier skills to their heart's content. Doesn't matter if they can never train them.
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Dielax
Aliastra Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:35:25 -
[452] - Quote
So... people can still make isk buy time on the market and voila?
If so is this even a thing then?
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Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
88
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:35:33 -
[453] - Quote
A question if I have an alpha clone account trained in Amarr racial skills and I upgrade to an Omega account to train Caldari skills what happens when I revert back to an Alpha account; do I get limited to Amarr skill sets again or do I get a choice of which skills to keep? I know the skill point limit is set to 5million but it is possible to traing more than one set of skills if you dont take them to the maximum.
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
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Allus Nova
43
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:35:49 -
[454] - Quote
Wait really? free2play is the gateway to pay2win. If eve goes Free2Play I'm donating my **** to eve uni and biomassing.
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Ben Ishikela
80
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:38:48 -
[455] - Quote
uggg.
Now i have a reason to quit this game.
---
(i played this game for free for 3years. it was balanced, i had the same power as others. now it will be a challenge.)
Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2935
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:39:01 -
[456] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Introduce permadeath. Podded Alphas are permanently gone. Remove the tech II ship and module restrictions. Up the skill cap.
Experience New Eden as a human among immortals. One play for a quarter.
Let's make EvE darker. No - that would lead to every system have dozens of cloaky campers and cyno alts.
not if you can still only log in one acc at a time with unpayed accs
Citadel worm hole tax
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Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
88
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:39:28 -
[457] - Quote
Allus Nova wrote:Wait really? free2play is the gateway to pay2win. If eve goes Free2Play I'm donating my **** to eve uni and biomassing.
If you do can I have your skill points? I give you the injectors for the extraction.
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4408
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:39:40 -
[458] - Quote
Allus Nova wrote:Wait really? free2play is the gateway to pay2win. If eve goes Free2Play I'm donating my **** to eve uni and biomassing.
This isn't a gateway to pay2win. This is exactly pay2win out the gate. Free players are nothing but fodder with the SP limits they have set.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
148
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:40:16 -
[459] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Soltys wrote:I'd add another constraint:
- cannot inject skills
This should be reserved for subbed accounts only. Disagree - let them inject 500m carrier skills to their heart's content. Doesn't matter if they can never train them.
Yes, I was too fast. With 5m sp ceiling and skill constraints it's irrelevant. And better for traders at the same time =)
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2935
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:41:40 -
[460] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:uggg.
Now i have a reason to quit this game.
---
(i played this game for free for 3years. it was balanced, i had the same power as others. now it will be a challenge.)
gateway? the ppl that pay have a huge adv over those that are not it is just flat p2w once this goes live
Citadel worm hole tax
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10606
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:44:05 -
[461] - Quote
So yeah... I can't add anything "constructive" to this Pandora's Box that CCP is about to open beyond, "trash the idea and the person who came up with it."
F2P in any form is, at best, a way to excise as much cash as possible out of a game/franchise. At worst, it is the first death cry of a game.
I have rarely seen an exception to this.
Time to unsubscribe.
How did you Veterans start?
The Mustache and Beard Thread
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Eli Porter
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
31
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Posted - 2016.08.31 19:48:18 -
[462] - Quote
I understand the faction restriction was put into place so players couldn't reach high SP on a non-paying account.
But for the sake of newbie corps, give us something for flexibility.
Some suggestions:
1. Let them train frigates and cruisers up to level 4, but for all factions.
2. Let them train off-faction t1 frigates and cruisers up to level 3
3. New alpha states start with a skill template that lets them fly all t1 frigates, cruisers and their modules at level 3, but locks further training to their faction. |
aldhura
The Locker Room
94
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:49:26 -
[463] - Quote
May as well then remove the JC timers. Every player will now have a free cruiser PVP toons instantly available anywhere including wh's.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
348
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:49:46 -
[464] - Quote
At first glance at the allowed skill list the proposed system seem to be pretty bad case of "pay to win" that these supposedly "free" characters do not have access to T2 guns meaning they will be just a content for paying customers. That is a pretty crappy way of doing "free to play". Either do free to play so that the free dudes are competitive with paying customers at minimum in T1 frigates/dessies or do not do it. As proposed currently it will taste like poop to anyone giving it a try thinking this game has a viable free to play possibility.
Second questionable faucet is locking the skill set according to the race the person picked when creating the character. EVE has always been about being able to correct the choices done - for a start doing it like that will send a totally wrong message to the newbies. The second issue is the racial variation of pirate populations. It is indeed a crappy day if one has to go and take on Angels in an Amarr ship. Why this is an issue - because if the newbie joins an null null entity living, for example, in Pure Blind he will soon find that doing anything pve related in that region in his T1 frigate/dessy/cruiser (without T2 guns) can be alot harder than it should because he picked the wrong starter race!
I would say it might make more sense to set the skill cap so that the free dudes are, at minimum, effective with a frigate, i.e., at minimum allow the T2 guns at lev 4, if these are trained. Set saefty on for aplha clones in hi sec for obvious reasons. Cruisers .. mm .. I'm not so sure about. IF you decide to allow T1 cruisers same approach should be taken, sure knock off the last levels from the skill but allow relevant skills at L4 including T2 ones. Otherwise EVE will get just "pay to win" tag in the internet and that will not help you to lure in the new people you are looking for. It would keep it simpler if there would be only one "alpha" list with all racial ships in it so that the player is free to choose whatever race he desires without being penalized for the decision he made at the start without knowing basically anything about the game or where will he end up in the EVE universe a month down the road.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Joanna RB
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:51:19 -
[465] - Quote
Irregessa wrote:Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill? Since this is supposed to come out at the same time as the boosting changes, an Alpha Clone won't fly any ship that can boost, nor use any skills that require Leadership (like Fighters).
You forgot the main use of the Leadership skill - allowing you to form a squadron with a maximum leadership*2 members. |
Kenny Hahpet
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:53:23 -
[466] - Quote
Far as I can tell alphas if they max out what they can legit train (Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1 can be trained while Weapon Upgrades can only get to 4 :/ ) is about 4300112 SP so provided you can't extract skills you know by default (not checked if you can) then I don't see an issue with sp farming any more than it is now as I don't see it been cost effective.
I will say infomorph psychology needed to be included into the skills or some way to jump out of blingy pod what will be useless as soon as enter a alpha state since skills will disable them.
Other than that aside from alphas only be able to turn safeties to yellow, as it's not even a question on if it will be exploited it's a matter of how many. Should be interesting how many alphas will roam about in faction ships with poor skills :3 |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
7007
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:55:13 -
[467] - Quote
That is a bunch of awesome feedback here so far! Thank you.
As a quick reminder, if you disagree with something or if you think that something will be bad, please explain why you are thinking so. Knowing the reasons and your train of though is incredibly more helpful than just learning about the end result.
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer - Volunteer Manager
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2937
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:55:28 -
[468] - Quote
Joanna RB wrote:Irregessa wrote:Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill? Since this is supposed to come out at the same time as the boosting changes, an Alpha Clone won't fly any ship that can boost, nor use any skills that require Leadership (like Fighters).
You forgot the main use of the Leadership skill - allowing you to form a squadron with a maximum leadership*2 members.
you can form a squad with 10 pilots w/o the skill you just can't relay boosts but relaying boosts will no longer be a thing so leader ship just adds range to your boosts
so he is right no reason to train it as the only t1 ship that can make use of it is a BC and they can't train past cruiser
Citadel worm hole tax
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4408
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 19:55:55 -
[469] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:At first glance at the allowed skill list the proposed system seem to be pretty bad case of "pay to win" that these supposedly "free" characters do not have access to T2 guns meaning they will be just a content for paying customers. That is a pretty crappy way of doing "free to play". Either do free to play so that the free dudes are competitive with paying customers at minimum in T1 frigates/dessies or do not do it. As proposed currently it will taste like poop to anyone giving it a try thinking this game has a viable free to play possibility.
Second questionable faucet is locking the skill set according to the race the person picked when creating the character. EVE has always been about being able to correct the choices done - for a start doing it like that will send a totally wrong message to the newbies. The second issue is the racial variation of pirate populations. It is indeed a crappy day if one has to go and take on Angels in an Amarr ship. Why this is an issue - because if the newbie joins an null null entity living, for example, in Pure Blind he will soon find that doing anything pve related in that region in his T1 frigate/dessy/cruiser (without T2 guns) can be alot harder than it should because he picked the wrong starter race!
I would say it might make more sense to set the skill cap so that the free dudes are, at minimum, effective with a frigate, i.e., at minimum allow the T2 guns at lev 4, if these are trained. Set saefty on for aplha clones in hi sec for obvious reasons. Cruisers .. mm .. I'm not so sure about. IF you decide to allow T1 cruisers same approach should be taken, sure knock off the last levels from the skill but allow relevant skills at L4 including T2 ones. Otherwise EVE will get just "pay to win" tag in the internet and that will not help you to lure in the new people you are looking for. It would keep it simpler if there would be only one "alpha" list with all racial ships in it so that the player is free to choose whatever race he desires without being penalized for the decision he made at the start without knowing basically anything about the game or where will he end up in the EVE universe a month down the road.
Honestly it might make more sense to remove SP entirely. The restrictions are mostly geared around industry and specific ships/modules they don't seem to want free players using. If they're going to go free to play, its better to get people into the game and make the extra content worth paying for.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
135
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:00:57 -
[470] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Introduce permadeath. Podded Alphas are permanently gone. Remove the tech II ship and module restrictions. Up the skill cap.
Experience New Eden as a human among immortals. One play for a quarter.
Let's make EvE darker.
You played too much at One Life, didn't you ? |
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May'n Nome
Elements Arpeggio Vesperia
23
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:01:27 -
[471] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:In other news, CCP has announced new "golden" ammos for each race! Amarr - Conflag, Scorch, Gleam, Aurora Caldari - Rage, Javelin, Fury, Precision Gallente - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike Minmatar - Hail, Barrage, Quake, Tremor
Just think: no longer will OGBs be the standard reason that someone lost a fight to you. It'll because you're subbed or "p2w". Squee!
-Liang
Ed: Gonna roll with Caldari being pure missiles and skip T2 drones entirely; the point should stand despite the mild inaccuracies. Thanks for pointing out the missing missiles (and drones). You can't make an EVE-like game F2P without it being some flavor of P2W. Anything passive and significant is a no-go, just asking to get farmed. Passive for a casual = active and massively parallel for someone more serious. Just ask the guy who ran 300 skill farming alts. This game is a complex EVE-like browser game. Trying to explain it in a few words is a lot like trying to explain EVE in a few words. It has some design lessons which are very applicable to this topic.
OMG! ANOTHER PARDUSIAN! o7!
"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2957
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:01:47 -
[472] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote:The NPE is currently set to get an update at the same time. http://reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/50hcpc/welcome_to_free_to_play_eve/d741gzt
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3338
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:02:54 -
[473] - Quote
We've all noticed the drop in users over the last couple of years. This change could really save the game.
Congratulations on making the big move CCP. I think this is a really good idea. |
Cookie
Snakeoil Industries Ltd.
2
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:03:58 -
[474] - Quote
The more i think about it, the more concerns i have.
The goal is to get more players in.
With the free trial, you have some weeks free play, when that period doesn't convince the potential customer to subscribe, that alpha thing will not fix it.
It will most likely mostly be used by players who have already played for some time, who are already customers, maybe (weird idea) some even have multiple paid accounts, which now don't need to pay anymore, great idea.
There's also a 99% chance that the support ticket numbers skyrocket. When i count in the disappointment long term players will spread through any social media you can imagine and the previous 'success' of games that switched to a p2w model ... well ... time will tell.
gf
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
348
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:05:02 -
[475] - Quote
Zappity wrote: PI skills are not included in the alpha list in the devblog.
The important question is, however, if you can submit the new extraction cycle into the PI colony or not without the skills if you have the colony already installed.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
427
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:07:20 -
[476] - Quote
since this is a clone discussion.
i'd like to know when we will get final confirmation on what is happening to the "learner" implants. i mean hey dont avoid discussing whats going on in clone implant slots please.
are +1,2,3,4 and 5's being removed?
how will the Alpha and Omega states deal with said implants?
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Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
618
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:07:27 -
[477] - Quote
With as restricted as these Alpha clones are..... are they really going to be effective? I mean there is a finite amount of SP that can be trained, and even at a reduced rate, 5m is going to cap out reasonably quickly.
Though I am immeasurably glad to see that these clones can't train anything really useful for the Game of Alts crowd, they still can't really train anything useful for the game either.
Also will they be engaging enough to keep people playing them?
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
96
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:07:40 -
[478] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Zappity wrote: PI skills are not included in the alpha list in the devblog.
The important question is, however, if you can submit the new extraction cycle into the PI colony or not without the skills if you have the colony already installed.
Being able to drop your subscription and continue to farm PI would not be a good thing |
Titus Cole Dooley
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:09:17 -
[479] - Quote
WOW CCP is just full of bad ideas. I vote NO. |
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
2045
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:10:49 -
[480] - Quote
Smoke and self delusional mirrors.
Cost has never been the driving factor for new OR old player retention. This won't fix anything but it may very well ruin everything.
As usual, CCP ignores the root cause and tries to treat the symptom.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3434
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:11:27 -
[481] - Quote
Inevitable, and better implemented than it could have been.
I'll add my +1 to the limitation of alpha accounts in use - if you allow subbed players to log in an alpha account simultaneously, literally every subbed player in 0.0 or lowsec will be scouting themselves around with a free disposable scout, dualboxing suicide ewar frigates to every fight (be it a blocwar fleet engagement or a 1v1 on a gate), etc. Logging in an alpha account should prohibit us from logging in any other account, be it Alpha or Omega, unless you want to dive head first into a rabbit-hole.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Syri Taneka
Un4seen Development Sev3rance
142
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:11:29 -
[482] - Quote
Mostly cool with this.
Two things:
1) Force Safety On for Alpha clones (should probably do this for newbies as well, but that's a different matter). This will protect us from gank fleets of freebees, and protect unaccustomed players from highsec griefing shenanigans.
2) Disallow Alpha accounts and Omega accounts being online simultaneously from the same computer/IP address. Because an obvious abuse of this new mechanic is alt scouts and freebee tackle.
(Yes I am intentionally spelling it FreeBee, as a reference to Goonswarm.) |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
96
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:11:34 -
[483] - Quote
Zappity wrote:So what will beta clones be?
Do you think you will be able to upgrade to a Beta clone via an upgrade via Aur store
Upgrade to beta now - only $21 and you too will be able to fly Battlecrusiers.
BUY NOW and get a free upgrade so you to can use Tech 2 missiles |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
351
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:12:05 -
[484] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
Honestly it might make more sense to remove SP entirely. The restrictions are mostly geared around industry and specific ships/modules they don't seem to want free players using. If they're going to go free to play, its better to get people into the game and make the extra content worth paying for.
-Liang
It is an option but I think it would be better if SP would be kept also for the free clones. It is an significant aspect of EVE, including the training offline part and as in my eyes the "free" account is kind of supposed to be just the new trial without time limit it would make sense to show more aspects of the game as it is.
Ofc this would also draw in many old players who are going to log in to see what is up and keeping the SP visible and giving a clear hint why some levels are locked might prevent some panic about "dude I had like 100 mil SP and where it is now".
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Titus Cole Dooley
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:12:06 -
[485] - Quote
I would be ok with this if it was on the test server and TQ. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4409
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:12:51 -
[486] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:In other news, CCP has announced new "golden" ammos for each race! Amarr - Conflag, Scorch, Gleam, Aurora Caldari - Rage, Javelin, Fury, Precision Gallente - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike Minmatar - Hail, Barrage, Quake, Tremor
Just think: no longer will OGBs be the standard reason that someone lost a fight to you. It'll because you're subbed or "p2w". Squee!
-Liang
Ed: Gonna roll with Caldari being pure missiles and skip T2 drones entirely; the point should stand despite the mild inaccuracies. Thanks for pointing out the missing missiles (and drones). You can't make an EVE-like game F2P without it being some flavor of P2W. Anything passive and significant is a no-go, just asking to get farmed. Passive for a casual = active and massively parallel for someone more serious. Just ask the guy who ran 300 skill farming alts. This game is a complex EVE-like browser game. Trying to explain it in a few words is a lot like trying to explain EVE in a few words. It has some design lessons which are very applicable to this topic.
I don't really agree. I don't feel that this design would be P2W: - Remove SP entirely (effectively giving everyone "max skills") - Use the entitlement system built on top of ship skins (time based and permanent) to create entitlements for ships and modules. - Create a rotating free entitlement for the F2P people (Amarr week! Frigate week! Battleship week!). - Sell entitlements on the aurum store, on the market (NPC seeded to be a giant ISK sink), and add them to the deadspace loot tables for faction NPCs.
The target would be that 4-5 ships with the right monthly entitlements should be equivalent to the price of a monthly account.
-Liang
Ed: The goal from that point would be to look for improving retention and driving players to the parts of the game that make money. Arguably FW would become part of the game that drives flat retention as a counter to the instance PVP that happens in so many other places.
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
424
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:14:15 -
[487] - Quote
[/quote] So could I put those 5 accounts on my 4 PC's, 1 mac and 3 Linux - I do have access to a NOC so they could all be separate ip's - I forgot the 3 laptops
Shucks - I guess I could only have 54 free pi alts [/quote]
As I mentioned you put limits on the total amount of skills level you can have for PI which would in fact limit your ability to create lvl 3/4 PI products. Perhaps limit the skill to level 1 or 2 - that will limit extractors and other bits.
If you want 54 single log in PI alts - you have 4 pcs so 4 log ins at a time to harvest limited amounts of t1 PI items i say go for it, you are in the absolute minority of players. I can only imagine the hell of having to do that, but hey if that is your thing then so be it.
I am more concerned about the 54 free t2 fitted catalysts and thrasher throwaways. So i would support having limits on the ability to gank in high sec ie: your security can only be set to green.
CCP has to balance giving people a 'playable' experience and letting people try different things so that they want to play more and expand their personal empire with addons and subscriptions.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3434
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:16:08 -
[488] - Quote
Skimmed the blog again, didn't see this - what is the reduction in skill training rate for Alphas?
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Princess Adhara
University of Caille Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:16:22 -
[489] - Quote
The way it's been laid out, it doesn't look like F2P, but extended trial, since you don't get to pay for unlocks piecemeal, you either sub/plex for omega state, or go free for alpha state.
Which I think is good and I hope won't change. |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
618
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:20:11 -
[490] - Quote
Higgs Foton wrote:A lot of players coming in who can fly T1 fitted T1 cruisers at max (keep in mind these people can also fly the Gnosis! That ship is going to be the top dog for alpha clones)? Seems like a lot of profit can be made for people who produce this stuff.
I have a fully researched venture BPO on one of my accounts. I smell PROFIT. :)
That's a good point. Luxury Yacht's and Gnosisisisis
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
|
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Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
424
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:20:17 -
[491] - Quote
Princess Adhara wrote:The way it's been laid out, it doesn't look like F2P, but extended trial, since you don't get to pay for unlocks piecemeal, you either sub/plex for omega state, or go free for alpha state.
Which I think is good and I hope won't change.
I agree
I have no problem with CCP selling them AUR and letting them bling their T1 limited stuff either. In fact CCP should create more things for the CQ and let the newbies bling themselves silly with AUR sales. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3338
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:20:28 -
[492] - Quote
Syri Taneka wrote:Mostly cool with this.
Two things:
1) Force Safety On for Alpha clones (should probably do this for newbies as well, but that's a different matter). This will protect us from gank fleets of freebees, and protect unaccustomed players from highsec griefing shenanigans.
2) Disallow Alpha accounts and Omega accounts being online simultaneously from the same computer/IP address. Because an obvious abuse of this new mechanic is alt scouts and freebee tackle.
(Yes I am intentionally spelling it FreeBee, as a reference to Goonswarm.) Point #1 is reasonable. I think it'll probably be necessary, in fact. It will be necessary. I will make it necessary.
Point #2 is... not a good point. Most players have scouting alts on their Omega accounts now. There really isn't much difference between that and an Alpha clone. Lots of players don't use scouts as it is because they are too lazy, not because they don't have a spare character slot. I think for #2, it would be a smarter play to wait and see. I'll bet you not much changes. |
Flame Huany
Sr-38 Heavy Industries
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:21:15 -
[493] - Quote
This really worries me. I have been on other MMO games that went FTP and found them to go down hill in about a year. The primary feature of EVE that has set it apart from the others is the continued relationship with friends and enemies. In other games this usually went by the board as buying and selling of important goods eroded the established markets and group memberships. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2744
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:21:51 -
[494] - Quote
Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are Why do they exist again? They do not even state their opinion in this thread.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
96
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:23:42 -
[495] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:IOWA BANSHEE WROTE:
So could I put those 5 accounts on my 4 PC's, 1 mac and 3 Linux - I do have access to a NOC so they could all be separate ip's - I forgot the 3 laptops
Shucks - I guess I could only have 54 free pi alts
As I mentioned you put limits on the total amount of skills level you can have for PI which would in fact limit your ability to create lvl 3/4 PI products. Perhaps limit the skill to level 1 or 2 - that will limit extractors and other bits.
If you want 54 single log in PI alts - you have 4 pcs so 4 log ins at a time to harvest limited amounts of t1 PI items i say go for it, you are in the absolute minority of players. I can only imagine the hell of having to do that, but hey if that is your thing then so be it.
I am more concerned about the 54 free t2 fitted catalysts and thrasher throwaways. So i would support having limits on the ability to gank in high sec ie: your security can only be set to green.
CCP has to balance giving people a 'playable' experience and letting people try different things so that they want to play more and expand their personal empire with addons and subscriptions.
Fortunately CCP has left out pi - probably because they realize that it would only take 4 lvl 1 alts to double the production on you fully skilled PI toon.
But the yellow safety sounds like a great idea |
cyonida
2
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:23:46 -
[496] - Quote
The f2p model can certainly work wonders for revenue generation. Take a look at Star Wars the Old Republic. They went f2p and put a heavy emphasis on their cash shop. While I personally feel that this absolutely destroyed the game, their financial state is very good. I canceled my sub because the game became "extremely watered down single player cash shop online" and was no longer fun, but hey whatever pays the bills I guess. For every cancelled $15 sub, there were probably dozens of others dumping money into getting a different lightsaber color crystal or special head piece or mount or whatever.
I just hope that this doesn't happen to eve. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2776
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:26:37 -
[497] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are Why do they exist again? They do not even state their opinion in this thread. Most dev posts and CSM posts these days happen on reddit. Plenty of both in the reddit thread for this topic.
Eve players... tend to use "colorful" language to explain their positions. Such language is moderated on the forums and gets users banned and posts deleted, but not on reddit - so more discussion happens on /r eve. |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
625
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:29:22 -
[498] - Quote
Higgs Foton wrote:keep in mind these people can also fly the Gnosis!
Unless the devs have explicitly stated that the Gnosis can be flown, the Gnosis is a Battlecruiser. It may not require and Battlecruiser skills to fly, but if the intention is to disable anything above Cruisers, they (hopefully) won't overlook it.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
|
Solecist Project
32759
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:31:12 -
[499] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are Why do they exist again? They do not even state their opinion in this thread. Most dev posts and CSM posts these days happen on reddit. Plenty of both in the reddit thread for this topic. Eve players on reddit, average people... tend to use "colorful" language to explain their positions. Such language is moderated on the forums and gets users banned and posts deleted, but not on reddit - so more discussion happens on /r eve. Fixed it. Sorry.
And it's not just colourfull language. The hivemind is literally dumb.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6385
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:31:35 -
[500] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Higgs Foton wrote:keep in mind these people can also fly the Gnosis!
Unless the devs have explicitly stated that the Gnosis can be flown, the Gnosis is a Battlecruiser. It may not require and Battlecruiser skills to fly, but if the intention is to disable anything above Cruisers, they (hopefully) won't overlook it. It only requires Command Ships 1.
... and you thought it was dangerous in hisec already.
Wait until everybody has Alpha clone gank alts in destroyers. |
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Keebler Wizard
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:31:47 -
[501] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Higgs Foton wrote:A lot of players coming in who can fly T1 fitted T1 cruisers at max (keep in mind these people can also fly the Gnosis! That ship is going to be the top dog for alpha clones)? Seems like a lot of profit can be made for people who produce this stuff.
I have a fully researched venture BPO on one of my accounts. I smell PROFIT. :)
That's a good point. Luxury Yacht's and Gnosisisisis
Another couple idiots who can't read.
They said you will be limited to the ships of YOUR RACE.
Unless yatchs, gnossisisisisiissisisidsiofjiosdjfslk's and ventures are one of the starting races, you guys better go back to the drawing board. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5158
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:31:54 -
[502] - Quote
Anke Eyrou wrote:VonDerTann wrote:I just concerned about one thing: how about mulitple charactors under same account, if you are paid player, your main charactor is omega, the other two will regard as omega too or as alpha From what read in the dev blog thhey are treated as Omega.
Since you pay for an account, all characters will be Omega...just as it has always been. Don't lose your **** over this.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3338
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:34:59 -
[503] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Higgs Foton wrote:A lot of players coming in who can fly T1 fitted T1 cruisers at max (keep in mind these people can also fly the Gnosis! That ship is going to be the top dog for alpha clones)? Seems like a lot of profit can be made for people who produce this stuff.
I have a fully researched venture BPO on one of my accounts. I smell PROFIT. :)
That's a good point. Luxury Yacht's and Gnosisisisis Those are faction ships. I don't think Alpha Clones can fly them, unless I misread the dev blog. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1471
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:39:14 -
[504] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Zappity wrote: PI skills are not included in the alpha list in the devblog.
The important question is, however, if you can submit the new extraction cycle into the PI colony or not without the skills if you have the colony already installed.
Yes this is a question that I wish ccp would answer.
I would recommend that the functionality of pi not be allowed on unpaid accounts.
Why? PI is different than pvp. For PVP more pilots means more fun. Giving people free pi accounts will mainly hurt people who use a paid account.
Break people into 2 groups. 1) More time than money or 2) More money than time. Relative to the average eve player I consider myself to be in group 2.
I barely have time to go through the pi characters I currently have. So ccp telling me "hey now you (and everyone else) can have a bunch of free accounts to do pi in" has zero appeal to me. Lots of group 1 people will spend all sorts of time with their free alts and drive the prices down and I will have one less thing to do in eve.
If someone is really just trying the game out then I doubt pi is the reason they are trying it.
Even if ccp doesn't mind losing group 2 players, having a huge number of alts doing pi is a recipe for burnout.
Finally, by limiting this functionality to omega clones would be a big reason to have an omega account.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
427
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:40:19 -
[505] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are Why do they exist again? They do not even state their opinion in this thread.
this year's CSM is a complete joke and the buffoonery thats coming out of it (meaning the decisions CCP makes) will prove they have absolutely no control over what ccp decides to do. i think far too many think they can change the direction the company decides to take.
besides.. its a CSMPL council so all they care about is their hotdroppers, titans, and supers.. supply them more targets to end their rants.. CCPL... sounds about right if you haven't paid attention lately.
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Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
199
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:41:47 -
[506] - Quote
Keebler Wizard wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Higgs Foton wrote:A lot of players coming in who can fly T1 fitted T1 cruisers at max (keep in mind these people can also fly the Gnosis! That ship is going to be the top dog for alpha clones)? Seems like a lot of profit can be made for people who produce this stuff.
I have a fully researched venture BPO on one of my accounts. I smell PROFIT. :)
That's a good point. Luxury Yacht's and Gnosisisisis Another couple idiots who can't read. They said you will be limited to the ships of YOUR RACE. Unless yatchs, gnossisisisisiissisisidsiofjiosdjfslk's and ventures are one of the starting races, you guys better go back to the drawing board.
Good sir, you might want to read in on the requirements for the Gnosis. It only required Spaceship Command 1 to fly. It has no racial skill requirements. As far as i can see an alpha clone should be able to fly these ships, because an alpha clone will be able to train Spaceship Command. Personally i see no problem in alpha clones being able to fly the Gnosis. Its a pretty good ship for them, maybe even the best, and i have about 40 of them in my hangar. :)
PROFIT
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Keebler Wizard
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:42:01 -
[507] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Venture's are accounted for in the skill plans. They can learn mining frigate 4Maybe you should go read it. Gnosis and Yacht's have never been tied from, nor excluded from any race. So perhaps you should chill out.
Nah maybe you should learn to read. Gnosis is above cruiser first off. And yacht? If youre an amarr pilot who can only fly amarr, why would that make the yacht eligible? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2938
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:43:28 -
[508] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are Why do they exist again? They do not even state their opinion in this thread. this year's CSM is a complete joke and the buffoonery thats coming out of it (meaning the decisions CCP makes) will prove they have absolutely no control over what ccp decides to do. i think far too many think they can change the direction the company decides to take. besides.. its a CSMPL council so all they care about is their hotdroppers, titans, and supers.. supply them more targets to end their rants.. CCPL... sounds about right if you haven't paid attention lately.
Lol ccp has been ignoring the csm for years at this point they are just for show
Citadel worm hole tax
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Colonel Carter
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:43:56 -
[509] - Quote
I think you should be allowed to multibox a handful of accounts since thats also a part of the eve experience. |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
619
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:46:49 -
[510] - Quote
Keebler Wizard wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Venture's are accounted for in the skill plans. They can learn mining frigate 4Maybe you should go read it. Gnosis and Yacht's have never been tied from, nor excluded from any race. So perhaps you should chill out. Nah maybe you should learn to read. Gnosis is above cruiser first off. And yacht? If youre an amarr pilot who can only fly amarr, why would that make the yacht eligible?
I can read. In fact, I can read what is and what is NOT there. There is no specific mention of either ship. What that tends to mean with CCP is someone over looked something.
And the answer to your question is simple: Because every single character in the game can fly it. So it's a very valid question: In absence of a specific statement one way or another(again, the skills for ventures are included in the trainable skills, and ventures are another of those 'well technically it's ORE but all the racial career mining agents give them out' type ships) does that statement of 'racial ship type only', which again appears to allow for consideration for the venture, allow for consideration for other ships which EVERY character in the game can fly?
So, relax, go bad post on reddit a bit, vent your angst, then come back and relax.
EDIT in response to EDIT:
Because the Yacht and Gnosis both can also be flown by trial accounts
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
|
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Titus Cole Dooley
23
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:48:15 -
[511] - Quote
mining alts for days... well that is 3 accounts i will not have to pay for any more. nope with rorqual changes make that 4. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3341
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:52:35 -
[512] - Quote
Higgs Foton wrote:Keebler Wizard wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Higgs Foton wrote:A lot of players coming in who can fly T1 fitted T1 cruisers at max (keep in mind these people can also fly the Gnosis! That ship is going to be the top dog for alpha clones)? Seems like a lot of profit can be made for people who produce this stuff.
I have a fully researched venture BPO on one of my accounts. I smell PROFIT. :)
That's a good point. Luxury Yacht's and Gnosisisisis Another couple idiots who can't read. They said you will be limited to the ships of YOUR RACE. Unless yatchs, gnossisisisisiissisisidsiofjiosdjfslk's and ventures are one of the starting races, you guys better go back to the drawing board. Good sir, you might want to read in on the requirements for the Gnosis. It only required Spaceship Command 1 to fly. It has no racial skill requirements. As far as i can see an alpha clone should be able to fly these ships, because an alpha clone will be able to train Spaceship Command. Personally i see no problem in alpha clones being able to fly the Gnosis. Its a pretty good ship for them, maybe even the best, and i have about 40 of them in my hangar. :) PROFIT That's true... but it would be game breaking if Alpha accounts could fly them. Gnosis are Jove-related ships, and absolutely classified as faction. They are too versatile and powerful for free accounts, though. If you have 40 in your hanger, you know that damn well yourself. Free accounts will not be flying the Gnosis. If they could, there'd be no point in restricting race or faction frigs. |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
619
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:54:57 -
[513] - Quote
Gogela wrote: That's true... but it would be game breaking if Alpha accounts could fly them. Gnosis are Jove-related ships, and absolutely classified as faction. They are too versatile and powerful for free accounts, though. If you have 40 in your hanger, you know that damn well yourself. Free accounts will not be flying the Gnosis. If they could, there'd be no point in restricting race or faction frigs.
Yet I can make a trial account and sit in one right now. At least according to the required skills and lack of 'not usable by trial accounts' on the traits tab.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
|
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:55:45 -
[514] - Quote
Just curious - the punishment for botting is banning - but now its free to make accounts - so ccp would have to ban the ip. But I think (I may be wrong) that you can manipulate your ip address if you want. So CCP just effectively threw in the towel on botting - a botter gets banned - he just keeps making new accounts - since there is no cost or punishment to him there is no disincentive to botting. |
FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
79
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:57:52 -
[515] - Quote
I think I'm OK with this, so long as players have very limited access to specialized ships, modules, equipment and that the skill/hour penalty is appropriate. |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
619
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:58:38 -
[516] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Just curious - the punishment for botting is banning - but now its free to make accounts - so ccp would have to ban the ip. But I think (I may be wrong) that you can manipulate your ip address if you want. So CCP just effectively threw in the towel on botting - a botter gets banned - he just keeps making new accounts - since there is no cost or punishment to him there is no disincentive to botting.
I don't see that as really the case. The alpha clones will learn skills slower, and are not able to learn most the stuff that makes botting profitable. I mean sure there will probably be some of that because 50% of a cookie is still more than 0% of a cookie, but the limitations on the clones look like they'll be rather effective at curbing their usefulness for botting.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
|
Dopenose Lameth
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:00:35 -
[517] - Quote
My fear is that existing (paying) players will abuse this system by making a large number of free alts. Every fight will involve 20+ meta fitted Logi. In highsec one can expect suicide ganks happening a lot more. In low/null i expect to see 50man free2play caracal fleets being piloted by 1 person.
"But Dopenose, how could anyone control 50 accounts at once?" you might ask. Well they would do so the same way multiboxers do now: using multibox programs that are "technically bannable. Only you can now hide behind a VPN / Proxy and not care if your accounts get banned, since they didn't cost you anything to begin with.
Hope CCP has considered the amount of abuse they are making possible with this system.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2938
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:01:41 -
[518] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Allus Nova wrote:Wait really? free2play is the gateway to pay2win. If eve goes Free2Play I'm donating my **** to eve uni and biomassing.
This isn't a gateway to pay2win. This is exactly pay2win out the gate. Free players are nothing but fodder with the SP limits they have set. -Liang Couldn't you make the exact same case about trial players in eve as compared to subscribers? In point of fact, you could make this case for any mmo that has a free trial with some form of restriction (e.g. character level limits). Doesn't seem to be a major problem to me, but w/e. Eve is still a subscriber game, just with an extended free trial. Personally don't have a problem with it as long as they keep multiboxing with alphas in check.
no because trial players never became a class of players like alphas will in the new model
Citadel worm hole tax
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2795
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:01:54 -
[519] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Just curious - the punishment for botting is banning - but now its free to make accounts - so ccp would have to ban the ip. But I think (I may be wrong) that you can manipulate your ip address if you want. So CCP just effectively threw in the towel on botting - a botter gets banned - he just keeps making new accounts - since there is no cost or punishment to him there is no disincentive to botting. Yeah, that's a valid point. With unlimited free alts, there is almost no chance of enforcing any EULA rule on a particular player. Make a throwaway account with throwaway email address and fake data, go to rookie system, gank players, get banned, make new account, go to ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Kitosa Hinoyosha
Eye Of Mysterious Gaze
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:02:03 -
[520] - Quote
Ok now eve jumps on the downwards spiral that all games go through on their way out the door...free to play...get ready for eve to be sold to a 3rd person company and CS to go in the toilet...but no seriously wtf ccp...this isnt going to bring in more players because its free...gankers and greifers are still a problem...and now you make it to where they can be even more anonymous...thanks for making it easier for them...and while your at it why not just let CODE run your entire Customer service department and you guys just retire...how about you actually fix whats wrong with new eden instead of giving up on us and hoping the word *free* will save us...it wont...a sad day in new eden history when that goes live... |
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T Nis
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:02:42 -
[521] - Quote
wish ccp just changed what people complained the most about instead of changing the whole core there are so many changes in short timeframes lately worries me if u want an alt in wh space, ya need cloacking, in null people are in local anyway so being an alt 1000km off a gate is less of a problem, lets see howmany "free eye's" there are in null soon ccp always wanted more subs, now they change it to be free, paying gives perks, quite big perks, but would be funny if in a year time they lose even more subscribers and most people just fly T1 stuff seeing the amount of people stating they soon dont have to pay for their alts anymore is hilarious T1 meta4 guns is gonna be the baseline, and there are "some" people that fly it bigger and stronger geegee why pay if u can shoot people for free cheap losses that can easily be recovered anyway, people not flying expensive T2 bling ships anymore but just have 100 T1 cruisers ready for the shredder And the slower skilling doesn't matter, we as community have proven over years that we are willing to spend money on what couldve been considered slow, now you make it look fast cause theres a 2nd clone state being introduced. Now we can are all debating, but i can't wait to see in 1 or 2 years what this game has turned into. |
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
88
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:03:10 -
[522] - Quote
Limiting Alpha accounts to T1 cruisers and below including T1 equipment where does meta level 4 equipment belong? Will alpha clones have access to it as some meta 4 equipment is better than T2 equipment.
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3341
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:03:19 -
[523] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Gogela wrote: That's true... but it would be game breaking if Alpha accounts could fly them. Gnosis are Jove-related ships, and absolutely classified as faction. They are too versatile and powerful for free accounts, though. If you have 40 in your hanger, you know that damn well yourself. Free accounts will not be flying the Gnosis. If they could, there'd be no point in restricting race or faction frigs.
Yet I can make a trial account and sit in one right now. At least according to the required skills and lack of 'not usable by trial accounts' on the traits tab. A ship on it's own isn't a worry. Just because you can fly it doesn't mean you can be combat effective. An Alpha account will be able to max skills, which a trail cannot. Moreover, they can use it forever, instead of having to constantly make new accounts and train throwaway characters. It's much more convenient, which will make it more commonplace. Ultimately I think it comes down to common sense. CCP said no faction ships. Is the Genosis a faction ship? Do YOU really think they will let Alphas fly the Genosis? |
Droodid
Antec Enterprises
109
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:03:25 -
[524] - Quote
Two questions:
Will Alphas have a capped maximum wallet balance?
What happens to existing skills when reverting to Alpha from Omega? If losing access to them, do I regain access when upgrading again?
Apologies if these have already been asked.
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2938
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:03:26 -
[525] - Quote
Dopenose Lameth wrote:My fear is that existing (paying) players will abuse this system by making a large number of free alts. Every fight will involve 20+ meta fitted Logi. In highsec one can expect suicide ganks happening a lot more. In low/null i expect to see 50man free2play caracal fleets being piloted by 1 person.
"But Dopenose, how could anyone control 50 accounts at once?" you might ask. Well they would do so the same way multiboxers do now: using multibox programs that are "technically bannable. Only you can now hide behind a VPN / Proxy and not care if your accounts get banned, since they didn't cost you anything to begin with.
Hope CCP has considered the amount of abuse they are making possible with this system.
just want to clarify multiboxing programs are not bannable so long as you do no input broadcast
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2938
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:04:24 -
[526] - Quote
Droodid wrote:
What happens to existing skills when reverting to Alpha from Omega? If losing access to them, do I regain access when upgrading again?
Apologies if these have already been asked.
try reading the blog b4 posting maybe... or at least watch the video
Citadel worm hole tax
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Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
620
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:09:53 -
[527] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Gogela wrote: That's true... but it would be game breaking if Alpha accounts could fly them. Gnosis are Jove-related ships, and absolutely classified as faction. They are too versatile and powerful for free accounts, though. If you have 40 in your hanger, you know that damn well yourself. Free accounts will not be flying the Gnosis. If they could, there'd be no point in restricting race or faction frigs.
Yet I can make a trial account and sit in one right now. At least according to the required skills and lack of 'not usable by trial accounts' on the traits tab. A ship on it's own isn't a worry. Just because you can fly it doesn't mean you can be combat effective. An Alpha account will be able to max skills, which a trail cannot. Moreover, they can use it forever, instead of having to constantly make new accounts and train throwaway characters. It's much more convenient, which will make it more commonplace. Ultimately I think it comes down to common sense. CCP said no faction ships. Is the Genosis a faction ship? Do YOU really think they will let Alphas fly the Genosis?
They really can't 'max skills.' Each one can only train a total of 3 level 5 skills, one of them being industry. Most everything else is 3's and 4's. Take a look at the skill plan yourself.
The Gnosis and yacht are yes, technically faction ships. But, they're that grey area where 'yeah I'm a faction ship.... that can be flown by literally every character in the game, and have nothing really that special about me, without the skills to back it up.' Which they can't train. Very similar boat to the venture, as stated a few posts ago.
To answer your other question, I don't know. What I know is that they were not specifically mentioned, and as far as CCP goes, something not being mentioned is often a sign that someone overlooked something. Which is why it's being brought up, for clarification. I don't see a problem with it, if a trial account can log in and get in the thing, why shouldn't a free account? That's an awfully fine hair to split. Now if they want to go the other way and shut it down for trial accounts too, okay, I'm fine with that as well.
Just need a definitive Yes/No from CCP one way or another.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
|
u3pog
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
755
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:10:08 -
[528] - Quote
Dopenose Lameth wrote:My fear is that existing (paying) players will abuse this system by making a large number of free alts. Every fight will involve 20+ meta fitted Logi. In highsec one can expect suicide ganks happening a lot more. In low/null i expect to see 50man free2play caracal fleets being piloted by 1 person.
"But Dopenose, how could anyone control 50 accounts at once?" you might ask. Well they would do so the same way multiboxers do now: using multibox programs that are "technically bannable. Only you can now hide behind a VPN / Proxy and not care if your accounts get banned, since they didn't cost you anything to begin with.
Hope CCP has considered the amount of abuse they are making possible with this system.
You do know that proxy servers and VPNs connect to the Internet via real public IPs right? So, unless your ISP can provide you freely with endless amounts of IP's , you will care if you get banned.
Besides its still work in progress, so a lot will change based on our feedback and CCPs internal discussion. |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
14
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:12:31 -
[529] - Quote
Dopenose Lameth wrote:My fear is that existing (paying) players will abuse this system by making a large number of free alts. Every fight will involve 20+ meta fitted Logi. In highsec one can expect suicide ganks happening a lot more. In low/null i expect to see 50man free2play caracal fleets being piloted by 1 person.
"But Dopenose, how could anyone control 50 accounts at once?" you might ask. Well they would do so the same way multiboxers do now: using multibox programs that are "technically bannable. Only you can now hide behind a VPN / Proxy and not care if your accounts get banned, since they didn't cost you anything to begin with.
Hope CCP has considered the amount of abuse they are making possible with this system.
well the blog clearly states they are considering giving alpha clones singleton-logging known to current trial accounts
personally I think that limiting each ip to have one alpha logged in would be good countermeasure for that scenario, although I'd perfer it not locking out omega clones from logging in - as trial accounts are locking out possibility to multibox full account alongside them currently |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
728
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:12:46 -
[530] - Quote
You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
|
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2939
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:14:52 -
[531] - Quote
Dopenose Lameth wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Dopenose Lameth wrote:My fear is that existing (paying) players will abuse this system by making a large number of free alts. Every fight will involve 20+ meta fitted Logi. In highsec one can expect suicide ganks happening a lot more. In low/null i expect to see 50man free2play caracal fleets being piloted by 1 person.
"But Dopenose, how could anyone control 50 accounts at once?" you might ask. Well they would do so the same way multiboxers do now: using multibox programs that are "technically bannable. Only you can now hide behind a VPN / Proxy and not care if your accounts get banned, since they didn't cost you anything to begin with.
Hope CCP has considered the amount of abuse they are making possible with this system.
just want to clarify multiboxing programs are not bannable so long as you do no input broadcast Ah but that's the issue, it's hard enough already to prove if someone is using input broadcast. Lets be real here, a large number of people that multibox do use it. Now they can do it on a massive scale without fear of being banned. A minor inconvenience to create new accounts and you're back in action.
oh i wasn't disputing the issue you pointed out just clarifying the wording
Citadel worm hole tax
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May'n Nome
Elements Arpeggio Vesperia
24
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:15:07 -
[532] - Quote
u3pog wrote:Dopenose Lameth wrote:My fear is that existing (paying) players will abuse this system by making a large number of free alts. Every fight will involve 20+ meta fitted Logi. In highsec one can expect suicide ganks happening a lot more. In low/null i expect to see 50man free2play caracal fleets being piloted by 1 person.
"But Dopenose, how could anyone control 50 accounts at once?" you might ask. Well they would do so the same way multiboxers do now: using multibox programs that are "technically bannable. Only you can now hide behind a VPN / Proxy and not care if your accounts get banned, since they didn't cost you anything to begin with.
Hope CCP has considered the amount of abuse they are making possible with this system.
You do know that proxy servers and VPNs connect to the Internet via real public IPs right? So, unless your ISP can provide you freely with endless amounts of IP's , you will care if you get banned. Besides its still work in progress, so a lot will change based on our feedback and CCPs internal discussion.
And THIS is why I think a lot of the doom, gloom, salt, tears, and Bittervet-ness is starting to look a little ridiculous. The reason we are being told about this NOW is to help fine tune what they want to do and make it work so that everyone enjoys it.
Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities.
"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
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TheVirus32
Trois Etoiles The Volition Cult
18
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:17:18 -
[533] - Quote
I'm torn between "this is great news, I love newbros" and "BURN JITA TO THE GROUND!"..
The problem with the F2P eve concept is that if anything goes wrong with the way you do it (and you're so out of touch with the game that the chances are far from zero) .... Eve is DEAD (in a sadly non-exagerated way). There are many risks involved with heavy changes on a closed system that has been running for over 10 years... Things have reached an equilibrium, and you're about to nuke the tectonic plates..
So yeah... don't go SWG on our arses CCP, your teams used to have a lot of good ideas but ever since seagul is in charge it reeks of corporate greed and laziness ... We can't trust you and we know it, and since we don't trust you we won't forgive.
Moving on: - the no more than one alpha bandwagon. - weapon security locked on green. - one industry slot, not 4. Either that or refund me a few months of sub. - Flexible plex prices, AKA: the more the demand the more the prices get closer to regular 1 month membership prices, to ensure that plex doesn't go through the roof (and that's coming from someone who never plexes, because I like keeping my iskies) - raising minimum required SP to extract - DPS, capacitor and tank hard-caps. - A lot of good content from now on, no more excuses we've had enough of your sweet talk. Recently shipping citadels in open beta and not telling us what you're truly planning has really capped my tolerance.
And no matter what you say you're going to have issues with bots, this is a mature community, there are code-gods among us... you won't be able to detect S. L2 missions don't pay a lot and are a bore, a bot however doesn't give much of a F about time, and the iskies pile up... Therefore: - ISK + LP restrictions, alphas make at most 60% of omega's income after 2 weeks at 100% when it comes to PVE of any kind. - Alphas can't give out iskies. - Wallet cap at 70m.
--' ... I don't want the game to go SWG on our arses ... |
Kenny Hahpet
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:17:21 -
[534] - Quote
Dopenose Lameth wrote:My fear is that existing (paying) players will abuse this system by making a large number of free alts. Every fight will involve 20+ meta fitted Logi. In highsec one can expect suicide ganks happening a lot more. In low/null i expect to see 50man free2play caracal fleets being piloted by 1 person.
Those logi will be **** poor at repping and have 0 tank and have a pitiful range it will be like they are giving ships to kill as will take too long to find what alt getting shot at before it turns into a killmail. Suicide ganks they have to make sure they can't go criminal it's a given and as for the 50+ caracal gang I'm game. It's like for fighting 25 regular caracals what are slower and squishier do less damage but have a rather slow but nasty alpha, multiboxing is not all it's cracked up to be as their are many flaws and easier ways to pad your killmail will less effort/ ships. |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
620
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:17:31 -
[535] - Quote
May'n Nome wrote:Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities.
Screw incursions, I'd consider it just so more wild battle ships would appear in low sec lol. Tired of all those damned frigates. Like Zubat I tell ya!
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
|
Dopenose Lameth
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:17:42 -
[536] - Quote
u3pog wrote:Dopenose Lameth wrote:My fear is that existing (paying) players will abuse this system by making a large number of free alts. Every fight will involve 20+ meta fitted Logi. In highsec one can expect suicide ganks happening a lot more. In low/null i expect to see 50man free2play caracal fleets being piloted by 1 person.
"But Dopenose, how could anyone control 50 accounts at once?" you might ask. Well they would do so the same way multiboxers do now: using multibox programs that are "technically bannable. Only you can now hide behind a VPN / Proxy and not care if your accounts get banned, since they didn't cost you anything to begin with.
Hope CCP has considered the amount of abuse they are making possible with this system.
You do know that proxy servers and VPNs connect to the Internet via real public IPs right? So, unless your ISP can provide you freely with endless amounts of IP's , you will care if you get banned. Besides its still work in progress, so a lot will change based on our feedback and CCPs internal discussion.
If you have ever used (public) proxies for anything at all, like getting access to a game not available (yet) in your region, you will know that there are vast amounts you can use freely. That being said there are other methods...
The hardest part of balancing Alpha clones (in my opinion) is tweaking them to the point where F2P players can still enjoy them, without making them impactfull enough that we will see armies of Alpha toons affecting normal gameplay mechanics.
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2940
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:17:55 -
[537] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:That is a bunch of awesome feedback here so far! Thank you.
As a quick reminder, if you disagree with something or if you think that something will be bad, please explain why you are thinking that. Knowing the reasons and your train of though is incredibly more helpful than just learning about the end result. Ill nutshell it for you... The good: 1) Allows current subs more flexibility with alts 2) Allows new players to experience eve without time constraints. 3) Provides subs with more targets. The bad: 1) Subs keep out a certain type of player many here will find undesirable. While people say well you can just avoid them, ignore them, etc... its like avoiding the white elephant in the room... lots of white elephants. At some point, it becomes easier to just stop playing. 2) Lots of free players do not always mean lots more paying customers. In a F2P/P2W game about 50% of the players will never pay 2 play despite the fact they are at a significant disadvantage. The Clone model of eve doesnt put them at a significant disadvantage. They can still do everything paying players can, just in crappier ships with crappier mods. 3) I see alliances capitalizing on the free players and creating huge TIDI blobs of cheap fleets to take and hold space. 4) Free players really dont add a lot of value to the game but will suck up a massive amount of resources. 5) Welcome to The Market Chaos Era. This is going to have all kinds of weird effects on the market from a variety of angles. 6) No game that i have played that has started either A) in game advertising( despite you paying for it) or B) a free to play mode has done well after that point. At that point you are on a slippery slope and about to lose your footing. 7) Hi! im Roenok and i have 782 Alt Alpha Clone accounts! 8) You, CCP, claims that support will not be affected. But we know thats not true. There are only two paths support can take with this and both of them hurt sub players. The first is that we have to wait stupidly long for our tickets to make it through a constantly backlogged system because of all the Alpha scrubs filing support tickets for stupid stuff. The Second is that CCP hires more support staff. Guess who is paying for that support staff? Sub players. So we either get shittier service or we provide welfare support for free players. 9) Keeping in line with point #8, taking revenue to spend on more support staff for free players also takes money for CCP staff to develop the game. 10) F2P players are going to crowd sub players out of high sec. They are going to suck up most of the resources in high sec while contributing very little to game play. High sec subs are going to get tired of this and do one of two things. One, they are going to move to low sec or null... which is great. Or they are going to unsub and go play something else where they dont have pay to compete with thousands of free players. 11) We are going to have the same tolerance of free players as we do bots, afk miners/ratters, and other undesirables. We are going to try to kill them to make them go away until they become to frustrating to deal with and then we are going to go away. 12) Honestly we would rather you spend more time on making eve awesome and less time on generating revenue. We have bugs that havent been fixed for months. You guys are fixing things that arent broken ( module tieracide) while neglecting things that we hate ( Fozziesov, SBU sov, Pos bash Sov). We ask for the game to have more entertaining PVE and your answer to that is super rats that will WTFOWN you faster than a cap hot drop. Your answer to everything the last few years is to either nerf it or dumb it down. The only good thing ive seen in updates these last couple of years are ship rebalancing and possibly new structures but im still reserving judgement on those. Before you start trying to get new subs, try to keep the ones you got. You want an answer to the trial BS... here it is: 1) Set up a free to play server that is separate from TQ. 2) No restrictions on this server 3) No customer support for this server. You want customer support you have to pay for it. 4) No plexes or skill injectors on this server. 5) The server is wiped clean every 6 months. 6) At any time you may transfer your character and your assets to TQ with your character in its current state. The cost of this transfer is that you buy a 1 month sub plus $5 transfer fee. The transfer fee is waived with a 3 month sub or more. Play your heart out free player. When your sick of being reset, come join us on TQ. Otherwise take all the time you need to learn game mechanics. You could also leave the trial up on TQ as is and give people that option. Ive been playing MMOs for 20 years. My first was a text based browser game on dial up. Ive player MMOs from EA, Blizzard, Atari, Trion Worlds, Big Point, Aeria, Kabam, Rockyou, Plarium, Machine Zone, and a host of other developers i cant remember atm, some of which have been defunct for years. And i can tell you from experience... going down this road is never good for the developer nor the paying customer. But dont take my word for it.... ill quote this post and " i told you so" in a couple of years.
deserves to be quoted
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1172
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:18:04 -
[538] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Gogela wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Gogela wrote: That's true... but it would be game breaking if Alpha accounts could fly them. Gnosis are Jove-related ships, and absolutely classified as faction. They are too versatile and powerful for free accounts, though. If you have 40 in your hanger, you know that damn well yourself. Free accounts will not be flying the Gnosis. If they could, there'd be no point in restricting race or faction frigs.
Yet I can make a trial account and sit in one right now. At least according to the required skills and lack of 'not usable by trial accounts' on the traits tab. A ship on it's own isn't a worry. Just because you can fly it doesn't mean you can be combat effective. An Alpha account will be able to max skills, which a trail cannot. Moreover, they can use it forever, instead of having to constantly make new accounts and train throwaway characters. It's much more convenient, which will make it more commonplace. Ultimately I think it comes down to common sense. CCP said no faction ships. Is the Genosis a faction ship? Do YOU really think they will let Alphas fly the Genosis? They really can't 'max skills.' Each one can only train a total of 3 level 5 skills, one of them being industry. Most everything else is 3's and 4's. Take a look at the skill plan yourself. The Gnosis and yacht are yes, technically faction ships. But, they're that grey area where 'yeah I'm a faction ship.... that can be flown by literally every character in the game, and have nothing really that special about me, without the skills to back it up.' Which they can't train. Very similar boat to the venture, as stated a few posts ago. To answer your other question, I don't know. What I know is that they were not specifically mentioned, and as far as CCP goes, something not being mentioned is often a sign that someone overlooked something. Which is why it's being brought up, for clarification. I don't see a problem with it, if a trial account can log in and get in the thing, why shouldn't a free account? That's an awfully fine hair to split. Now if they want to go the other way and shut it down for trial accounts too, okay, I'm fine with that as well. Just need a definitive Yes/No from CCP one way or another.
Gnosis is a Battle cruiser. The Dev blog said Alpha clones are limited to Cruiser down. There is no issue here.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5159
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:18:50 -
[539] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Just curious - the punishment for botting is banning - but now its free to make accounts - so ccp would have to ban the ip. But I think (I may be wrong) that you can manipulate your ip address if you want. So CCP just effectively threw in the towel on botting - a botter gets banned - he just keeps making new accounts - since there is no cost or punishment to him there is no disincentive to botting.
Other than having all your stuff gone.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
620
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:20:45 -
[540] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Gnosis is a Battle cruiser. The Dev blog said Alpha clones are limited to Cruiser down. There is no issue here.
I'll repeat myself again shall I? Seeing as reading seems to be hard for some people???
Quote:and as far as CCP goes, something not being mentioned is often a sign that someone overlooked something.
Quote:Just need a definitive Yes/No from CCP one way or another.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2706
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:21:09 -
[541] - Quote
May'n Nome wrote:Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities. They can get into Incursion communities by the Incursion communities actually doing the smaller sites as well, because they are meant for newer, younger, less experienced players. New players do not need to be introduced to the elite BS fleets right away -- let alone that no Incursion FC would take in a newbie in his badly skilled BS.
My biggest gripe with this is that CCP has not done anything to improve the NPE, they do nothing to promote E-Uni and actually throw new players into E-Uni instead of leaving them in rookie corps. With this F2P plan, they just hope for a BNI 2.0 and throw new players into the same environment like the last time. They should have improved the NPE with the countless suggestions first and then introduced these Clone states. That would have been the proper order and it would have made a lot more sense with their focus on new players that looks more like a farce.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Rihanna Obama
Trump Industries
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:21:16 -
[542] - Quote
Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are So the CSM's there for...what reason exactly? |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
620
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:23:09 -
[543] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:May'n Nome wrote:Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities. They can get into Incursion communities by them doing the smaller sites. My biggest gripe with this is that CCP has not done anything to improve the NPE, they do nothing to promote E-Uni and actually throw new players into E-Uni instead of leaving them in rookie corps. With this F2P plan, they just hope for a BNI 2.0 and throw new players into the same environment like the last time. They should have improved the NPE with the countless suggestions first and then introduced these Clone states. That would have been the proper order and it would have made a lot more sense with their focus on new players that looks more like a farce.
Dammit, I hate agreeing with Rivr on anything. Makes me fear for my sanity.....
But Yeah. That's pretty much the size and shape of the beast.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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May'n Nome
Elements Arpeggio Vesperia
24
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:24:38 -
[544] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:May'n Nome wrote:Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities. They can get into Incursion communities by the Incursion communities actually doing the smaller sites as well, because they are meant for newer, younger, less experienced players. New players do not need to be introduced to the elite BS fleets right away -- let alone that no Incursion FC would take in a newbie in his badly skilled BS. My biggest gripe with this is that CCP has not done anything to improve the NPE, they do nothing to promote E-Uni and actually throw new players into E-Uni instead of leaving them in rookie corps. With this F2P plan, they just hope for a BNI 2.0 and throw new players into the same environment like the last time. They should have improved the NPE with the countless suggestions first and then introduced these Clone states. That would have been the proper order and it would have made a lot more sense with their focus on new players that looks more like a farce.
I've only been running Incursions for the past week or so and have been doing HQ sites...so pardon my newbie-ness there.
I believe they said the NPE is getting an update in the same patch for one. Second the E-Uni can do a good job advertising itself via word of mouth and the in game help channel. I myself having been through E-Uni will spread the word myself.
"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
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Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
14
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Posted - 2016.08.31 21:24:53 -
[545] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.
And by the way, I don't think this will influence subscribers unless it is matched by an improvement in the NPE.
This is basically just the same as the free trial in many respects, and so I wouldn't expect any major changes in subscriber numbers as a result. The possibilities for exploitation though are great if this isn't implemented carefully.
the minimal amount of sp you have to have prior to using extraction is 5.5 million SPs
in the dev blog they say that fully maxed in skillz alpha should have around 5mill SPs which is somewhere around 500k SPs short to use an extractor anyway
so officially stating "alphas cannot use extractor" would be imo kinda redundant
[other thing being old toons with advanced skills trained that turned alpha and wish to extract SPs from "locked out" skillz]
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2940
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:24:54 -
[546] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities.
thats what the economy needs armys of alpha alts blitzing incursions
Citadel worm hole tax
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Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
620
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:26:22 -
[547] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities. thats what the economy needs armys of alpha alts blitzing incursions
yeah I totally didn't say that. Quote properly ya bad.
EDIT:
Quote:Screw incursions, I'd consider it just so more wild battle ships would appear in low sec lol. Tired of all those damned frigates. Like Zubat I tell ya!
This is what I said.
And yeah, the whole T1 battleship with t1 gear would definitely rock incursions world.....
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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May'n Nome
Elements Arpeggio Vesperia
24
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Posted - 2016.08.31 21:26:27 -
[548] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities. thats what the economy needs armys of alpha alts blitzing incursions
Ahem, already responded to this. Only been doing them about a week now and running the HQ sites with WTM.
"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5159
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:27:02 -
[549] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: 2) Lots of free players do not always mean lots more paying customers. In a F2P/P2W game about 50% of the players will never pay 2 play despite the fact they are at a significant disadvantage. The Clone model of eve doesnt put them at a significant disadvantage. They can still do everything paying players can, just in crappier ships with crappier mods.
Sooo...they can't do everything a paying player can. Can they use a cloak for a variety of reasons? No. Can they light a cyno? No. Can they use capitals? No. Can they invent T2 modules and the like? No.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Titus Cole Dooley
24
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:29:55 -
[550] - Quote
Just about all of the the stuff CCP is coming up with is just bumming me out. |
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win189
LAWN HC Get Off My Lawn
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:30:42 -
[551] - Quote
i think there should be Some Exceptions to this like for example if a Alpha logs in and a omega logs in it will allow but it will only restrict one alpha at a time
Q will alphas be allowed on test server A CCP you say no to this ------- i have a personal issue with that as it would allow people to actually learn the game and enjoy it instead of being overwhelmed just limit them to what they can do in the normal server
the most common thing for eve online is new players are being overwhelmed with how much is in eve online they are attracted to it by the battles and PR that the big 8 Alliances have been doing these past many years but not being able to partake in some cause it takes 2-4 days to just get in some setups
also for throws just coming back if your in a ship like a titan or super that is undocked with alpha status just have all modules go offline but make it were it can jump with the same jump settings as was trained ie if you have jump cal 5 fuel con 5 you should be able to use that benefit but only for throws assigned ships not allowing the use of any offensive module other then cloaking (if cloaking skill is trained to 5)
Querns wrote:Regarding this question in the Q&A: Quote: Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5159
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:30:46 -
[552] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.
And by the way, I don't think this will influence subscribers unless it is matched by an improvement in the NPE.
This is basically just the same as the free trial in many respects, and so I wouldn't expect any major changes in subscriber numbers as a result. The possibilities for exploitation though are great if this isn't implemented carefully.
Nope.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2707
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:31:08 -
[553] - Quote
May'n Nome wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:May'n Nome wrote:Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities. They can get into Incursion communities by the Incursion communities actually doing the smaller sites as well, because they are meant for newer, younger, less experienced players. New players do not need to be introduced to the elite BS fleets right away -- let alone that no Incursion FC would take in a newbie in his badly skilled BS. My biggest gripe with this is that CCP has not done anything to improve the NPE, they do nothing to promote E-Uni and actually throw new players into E-Uni instead of leaving them in rookie corps. With this F2P plan, they just hope for a BNI 2.0 and throw new players into the same environment like the last time. They should have improved the NPE with the countless suggestions first and then introduced these Clone states. That would have been the proper order and it would have made a lot more sense with their focus on new players that looks more like a farce. I've only been running Incursions for the past week or so and have been doing HQ sites...so pardon my newbie-ness there. I believe they said the NPE is getting an update in the same patch for one. Second the E-Uni can do a good job advertising itself via word of mouth and the in game help channel. I myself having been through E-Uni will spread the word myself. Then they should have released the dev blog on NPE first and not like a sorry excuse after this one to justify this one. Word on the street has only so much reach. Best example is the very destructive Burn Jita event: CCP advertises for it, multiple news outlets advertise it, yet there are still hundreds of people dying to it, who do not know at all what's going on. That goes for the majority of the game population and word on the street won't reach them.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
motie one
Secret Passage
107
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:31:28 -
[554] - Quote
tasman devil wrote:Fine, great. Team Size Matters wrote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, but we are communicating now specifically so that they can help gather your feedback and bring it to us for the summit in September, where we will be flying out the entire CSM for the first time. If you would rather talk to us directly, the forum thread for this blog is a great place to start and we will be opening up other channels, such as a Reddit AMA, in the coming weeks. But do please tell me why the hell do we vote for CSM again when they aren't even notified of this. I mean English may be a second language to me but it does seem to me that you neither thought nor really wanted to bring in on such a game-changing decision. Also they are now relegated to "ticket counters". Nice work!
There are game decisions, where the in game experience is invaluable. There are business decisions where they can't add ****.
Which type of decision do you think this is! |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
729
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:32:41 -
[555] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:Moac Tor wrote:You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.
And by the way, I don't think this will influence subscribers unless it is matched by an improvement in the NPE.
This is basically just the same as the free trial in many respects, and so I wouldn't expect any major changes in subscriber numbers as a result. The possibilities for exploitation though are great if this isn't implemented carefully. the minimal amount of sp you have to have prior to using extraction is 5.5 million SPs in the dev blog they say that fully maxed in skillz alpha should have around 5mill SPs which is somewhere around 500k SPs short to use an extractor anyway so officially stating "alphas cannot use extractor" would be imo kinda redundant [other thing being old toons with advanced skills trained that turned alpha and wish to extract SPs from "locked out" skillz] 1. Get a 5mil SP character who's SP is not allocated in the Alpha skills.
2. Revert to an Alpha clone.
3. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth.
4. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP.
5. Revert to an Alpha clone.
6. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth.
7. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP.
8. Repeat for free SP.
^This is what they need to avoid being possible
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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beakerax
Pator Tech School
301
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:32:51 -
[556] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:This is straight up pay to win. A paid account in a T1 frigate will stand an excellent chance against 2-3 free accounts. At least let all the support skills for frigates be trained up, even if you restrict the actual ship skills themselves. -Liang (hi Liang) Egsise wrote:What do we have now? A 30 day trial and with buddy invite which everyone uses it's 30day trial + 60day gametime and you can do ANYTHING.
Nerf that to T1 frigs and modules that lasts for the rest of their lives. Don't let the noobs do any of the cool stuff unless they pay the sub. I am concerned about this. The skill restrictions are a good idea to prevent abuse and provide a motivation to sub, but playing on a free account still needs to be rewarding and provide progression. If not, people aren't going to upgrade GÇô-áthey will just quit. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2957
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:33:21 -
[557] - Quote
I think alphas should be able to fly the Gnosis to give them a taste for larger ships. Availability is limited so I can't see it becoming a major balance issue.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
199
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Posted - 2016.08.31 21:33:23 -
[558] - Quote
Rihanna Obama wrote:Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are So the CSM's there for...what reason exactly? The Powerblock Information Service has no say when there is big money at stake. Did CCP care about CSM feedback on skill injectors? |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2272
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:35:40 -
[559] - Quote
Quote:Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill? Probably because it's a prerequisite for Security Connections, which is also on the Alpha skill list in the dev blog.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
620
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:37:35 -
[560] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Quote:Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill? Probably because it's a prerequisite for Security Connections, which is also on the Alpha skill list in the dev blog.
Were you guys just bored and wanted a new Threadnaught to occupy your time?
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5159
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:40:39 -
[561] - Quote
TheVirus32 wrote: - Flexible plex prices, AKA: the more the demand the more the prices get closer to regular 1 month membership prices, to ensure that plex doesn't go through the roof (and that's coming from someone who never plexes, because I like keeping my iskies)
Uhhh...why? Are Alpha's going to be buying PLEX? For what purpose? If anything they'll likely be selling them to get ISK.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Crack Spawn
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:42:06 -
[562] - Quote
CCP have run out of features/ideas its that simple. CCP are also running out of subscribers.
Spent time on the Bounty System Spent time of War Decing
Skills based system for spying/infiltrating
So many things that CCP could do that's new and with substance but no ccp want to make pretty Fleet bonuses affects, or awesome fireworks on a ship go boom. But introduce new cool thing naaa its easier to take stuff away from us.
This is a stupid idea CCP |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
328
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:42:30 -
[563] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Just curious - the punishment for botting is banning - but now its free to make accounts - so ccp would have to ban the ip. But I think (I may be wrong) that you can manipulate your ip address if you want. So CCP just effectively threw in the towel on botting - a botter gets banned - he just keeps making new accounts - since there is no cost or punishment to him there is no disincentive to botting.
ISPs have addresses in blocks. Normally, when you connect to your ISP its dynamic meaning the last few numbers will change each time you login to the ISP depending on what address is available. So to effectively ban your IP, they have to ban a whole block. Banning a block can possibly lead to banning other players unintentionally.
Thats how it use to be but i havent honestly messed with IP addresses and all that tech stuff for over 5 years, so it may of changed.
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Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
15
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:42:36 -
[564] - Quote
win189 wrote:i think there should be Some Exceptions to this like for example if a Alpha logs in and a omega logs in it will allow but it will only restrict one alpha at a time
can't upvote it enought! :)
Moac Tor wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:Moac Tor wrote:You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.
And by the way, I don't think this will influence subscribers unless it is matched by an improvement in the NPE.
This is basically just the same as the free trial in many respects, and so I wouldn't expect any major changes in subscriber numbers as a result. The possibilities for exploitation though are great if this isn't implemented carefully. the minimal amount of sp you have to have prior to using extraction is 5.5 million SPs in the dev blog they say that fully maxed in skillz alpha should have around 5mill SPs which is somewhere around 500k SPs short to use an extractor anyway so officially stating "alphas cannot use extractor" would be imo kinda redundant [other thing being old toons with advanced skills trained that turned alpha and wish to extract SPs from "locked out" skillz] 1. Get a 5mil SP character who's SP is not allocated in the Alpha skills. 2. Revert to an Alpha clone. 3. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth. 4. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP. 5. Revert to an Alpha clone. 6. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth. 7. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP. 8. Repeat for free SP. It doesn't take much for someone to work this out and then scale it onto hundreds of accounts.
hmmmm I have to admitt I haven't thought about it this way
but then to be honest the amount of time needed for each cycle makes it feels [to me] quite ineffective - at least compared to currently existing SP farms |
Juvenius Drakonius
20
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:42:53 -
[565] - Quote
Many questions here this is a BIG SHIFT in Game Mechanics, Will Alfa clones ...
Hava a ISK cap? be able to make trades in station? be used as spy alts in systems to monitor activity? be able to sell and buy any items off the market? Be able to join corps? be able to make cynos?
This is too big of a change for a simple post in a blog/forum this the biggest game shift since capitals where introduced, this needs special attention.....please more info, more details
There is no shame in saying you don't know something, and there is no glory in keeping knolege to yourself.
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Cinders Tekitsu
Eh Team
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:43:04 -
[566] - Quote
instead of pausing training because of an omega skill, skip it, and move down the list to the first alpha trainable skill and carry on. if you get to the end of the list with nothing trainable then pause it. you could also bring back the old training queue for alphas (24 hour window)... forcing them to log in "every day" to continue their training. that alone might be enough to make it too inconvenient to create a 1 person fleet of 50 alpha clones
|
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
16
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:45:16 -
[567] - Quote
Juvenius Drakonius wrote: be able to make cynos?
This is too big of a change for a simple post in a blog/forum this the biggest game shift since capitals where introduced, this needs special attention.....please more info, more details
the amount of ppl that comments without bothering to read the devblog is astonishing - there are two thing STRAIGHTLY mentioned in a blog that alpha clone WON'T be able to do - traiing up [and using] cynos and cloacking devices
EDIT:
Cinders Tekitsu wrote:instead of pausing training because of an omega skill, skip it, and move down the list to the first alpha trainable skill and carry on. if you get to the end of the list with nothing trainable then pause it. you could also bring back the old training queue for alphas (24 hour window)... forcing them to log in "every day" to continue their training. that alone might be enough to make it too inconvenient to create a 1 person fleet of 50 alpha clones
hmmm as it was not mentioned I though that alphas will follow trial mechanics here - all skills scheduled in the que must start within 24h window from the point of scheduling |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
149
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:51:47 -
[568] - Quote
TBH I'm not now even sure if it qualifies as typical (+premium) f2p.
For example, I've a friend that has some small yet decent cash and flies one type of T3C. Told him about "f2p" and he responded - "Well I know, but what's the point for me ? I can't fly anything I normally fly, I cannot use most racial stuff as I trained into other areas and should I even want to train them I'm well beyond 5m sp".
For any potential veteran / returnee - this is not f2p, this is completely pointless (they can at best "retry" the game on some fresh alt) - and IMHO it's good. Not like subbing by any means out there is an issue these days.
For genuinly new players it's just evolved trial with no explicit time limit, which is notably deal than they have now. But also with rigid constraints in terms of what they can really do/skill in game.
I rarely agree with CCP ideas these days, but this one is good (and literally harmless for
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5159
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:52:57 -
[569] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:Moac Tor wrote:You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.
And by the way, I don't think this will influence subscribers unless it is matched by an improvement in the NPE.
This is basically just the same as the free trial in many respects, and so I wouldn't expect any major changes in subscriber numbers as a result. The possibilities for exploitation though are great if this isn't implemented carefully. the minimal amount of sp you have to have prior to using extraction is 5.5 million SPs in the dev blog they say that fully maxed in skillz alpha should have around 5mill SPs which is somewhere around 500k SPs short to use an extractor anyway so officially stating "alphas cannot use extractor" would be imo kinda redundant [other thing being old toons with advanced skills trained that turned alpha and wish to extract SPs from "locked out" skillz] 1. Get a 5mil SP character who's SP is not allocated in the Alpha skills. 2. Revert to an Alpha clone. 3. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth. 4. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP. 5. Revert to an Alpha clone. 6. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth. 7. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP. 8. Repeat for free SP. It doesn't take much for someone to work this out and then scale it onto hundreds of accounts.
You cannot extract below 5 million SP, IIRC.
So, not going to work. You'll have to train above 5 million which will require a paid sub.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite CODE.
74
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:55:32 -
[570] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:It doesn't take much for someone to work this out and then scale it onto hundreds of accounts.
It doesn't take much for someone who doesn't know what the F he is talking about to make shat up and play Chicken Little all day....
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
|
|
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
199
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:58:06 -
[571] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:TheVirus32 wrote: - Flexible plex prices, AKA: the more the demand the more the prices get closer to regular 1 month membership prices, to ensure that plex doesn't go through the roof (and that's coming from someone who never plexes, because I like keeping my iskies)
Uhhh...why? Are Alpha's going to be buying PLEX? For what purpose? If anything they'll likely be selling them to get ISK. Errr for upgrading to omega? The change to the F2P model is supposed to attract people who cant afford paying the sub with real money, so PLEX will be in high demand if the F2P model is successful.
I dont think that players who cant afford a 12Gé¼ subscription will buy many 20Gé¼ PLEX. |
Kusum Fawn
Perkone Caldari State
558
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:58:31 -
[572] - Quote
I guess they just really dont want any freighters to move in hisec at all.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:59:03 -
[573] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:win189 wrote:i think there should be Some Exceptions to this like for example if a Alpha logs in and a omega logs in it will allow but it will only restrict one alpha at a time
can't upvote it enought! :) Moac Tor wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:Moac Tor wrote:You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.
And by the way, I don't think this will influence subscribers unless it is matched by an improvement in the NPE.
This is basically just the same as the free trial in many respects, and so I wouldn't expect any major changes in subscriber numbers as a result. The possibilities for exploitation though are great if this isn't implemented carefully. the minimal amount of sp you have to have prior to using extraction is 5.5 million SPs in the dev blog they say that fully maxed in skillz alpha should have around 5mill SPs which is somewhere around 500k SPs short to use an extractor anyway so officially stating "alphas cannot use extractor" would be imo kinda redundant [other thing being old toons with advanced skills trained that turned alpha and wish to extract SPs from "locked out" skillz] 1. Get a 5mil SP character who's SP is not allocated in the Alpha skills. 2. Revert to an Alpha clone. 3. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth. 4. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP. 5. Revert to an Alpha clone. 6. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth. 7. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP. 8. Repeat for free SP. It doesn't take much for someone to work this out and then scale it onto hundreds of accounts. hmmmm I have to admitt I haven't thought about it this way but then to be honest the amount of time needed for each cycle makes it feels [to me] quite ineffective - at least compared to currently existing SP farms
It is not free SP unless you consider subbing every other month to be "free".
Further, the subbed character is no longer an Alpha, they are no Omega clones. So, the idea of preventing Alphas from using extractors won't mean anything.
If you really wanted to stop this, prevent extractors from working when there are unallocated SP.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Dayltor
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 21:59:08 -
[574] - Quote
If they cut into my gobloons, this is a horrible change.
Otherwise, great change. Can't wait to see it happen. |
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite CODE.
74
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:00:09 -
[575] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:I guess they just really dont want any freighters to move in hisec at all.
Then get into the shipping escort biz....
When you think CCP give you lemons, make lemonade!
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
|
Pandora Carrollon
Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic.
643
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:01:05 -
[576] - Quote
I vote only 1 F2P Account allowed on same IP as a sub account, otherwise, 1 Account only.
Also, no skills beyond level 3...
In addition...
- No Advanced Modules
- No Cloaks at all unless time limit given to prototype cloaks
- T1 cruiser to L1 Mastery no further
- No Mining Barges
- Must maintain security status of -1 or higher
- Cannot start a corporation or alliance
- Abuse of the system/players using F2P will result in permaband of F2P accounts and any subbed accounts, with clear rules as to what constitutes abuse. Of course, this is predicated on the idea of being caught abusing it.
- 1 Billion ISK cap of account. If they have enough ISK to buy Plex, they need to play free that way.
- Market Sell cap of 500 million, can't have any more sell orders at a time than that in value.
I may edit this post with more as I think of it.
8 Golden Rules of EVE GÇó EVE is entirely PvP
|
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
604
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:02:10 -
[577] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:snip
1. Eve already has undesireables.
2. True, remains to be seen if this will increase player counts.
3. If an alliance can organize a thousand+ players to engage in a single system which produces TIDI - more power to them. That's a thousand+ players in EVE that otherwise wouldn't be here. If an alliance (say, TEST or PH) can organize a thousand+ Alpha players and take SOV with them, more power to them.
4. What sort of resources do you mean? Server CPU cycles? Doubtful. Asteriods? Also doubtful. And from the devblog: "As you know, EVE is a very special game. Our single shard server means that every player truly affects every other, whether through economics, resource gathering, direct combat or bad posting. This in turn means that our universe is more interesting, more exciting and more dangerous with each additional citizen."
5 & 6. Perhaps, but that remains to be seen.
7. I'm fine with that so long as you can't have more than one of them online at once.
8 & 9. Slow support ticket response time or having to hire new suport staff are no reasons to not try to get new players in the game.
10. Crowd Omega players out of highsec? Good. But there are plenty of resources to go around in highsec anyway, don't worry.
11. That's simply a function of having more people in the game. We want more people in the game.
12. CCP will continue to iterate on the game.
Quote:You want an answer to the trial BS... here it is:
1) Set up a free to play server that is separate from TQ. 2) No restrictions on this server 3) No customer support for this server. You want customer support you have to pay for it. 4) No plexes or skill injectors on this server. 5) The server is wiped clean every 6 months. 6) At any time you may transfer your character and your assets to TQ with your character in its current state. The cost of this transfer is that you buy a 1 month sub plus $5 transfer fee. The transfer fee is waived with a 3 month sub or more.
Play your heart out free player. When your sick of being reset, come join us on TQ. Otherwise take all the time you need to learn game mechanics. You could also leave the trial up on TQ as is and give people that option.
OMG NO. This is horrible. We want new players to engage in the shared world, not keep them separate.
|
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD. Bullets Bombs and Blondes
168
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:03:14 -
[578] - Quote
Oh! this is going to end well LOL
I predict the "Great Alpha Omega War" in YC... whatever year 2017 is.
Imagine... Burst Omega boosters in an Alpha fleet. "Frenemy" Alpha Fleets "Awoxing Alphas" etc.
Let the great Clone Wars begin!!
Max
Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never.
Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
|
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
17
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:04:26 -
[579] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:[
hmmmm I have to admitt I haven't thought about it this way
but then to be honest the amount of time needed for each cycle makes it feels [to me] quite ineffective - at least compared to currently existing SP farms
It is not free SP unless you consider subbing every other month to be "free".
Further, the subbed character is no longer an Alpha, they are no Omega clones. So, the idea of preventing Alphas from using extractors won't mean anything.
If you really wanted to stop this, prevent extractors from working when there are unallocated SP. [/quote]
he meant extracting "alpha allowed skills" as omega with 5mill+ in omega-only skills and then allowing it to drop back to alpha for reskilling those alpha allowed skills - but the longer I think about it, the more I get to think tha whole idea is just gimped less effective attempt of currently existing SP farms..... |
Anah Sarlai
Applied Anarchy ChaosTheory.
8
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:06:01 -
[580] - Quote
Please don't forget , ppl can gank with numbers of alts that are free to create. There should be engagement limitations in highsec
Imagine the literally Alphastrike team with 100-200 alts by a few players on freighters.
Ppl will just harass the s*ht out of ppl with multiple logged in alphas for scout/potential eye for ganks... Yes it will increase newcomers numbers, maybe increase eve community, but in the other hand will boost up ppl with power to use extra alts...
I would try to find out a method, you can only use this alpha account when you dont have around multiple mains/subscripted accs
I would personnaly with the current rules make 10-20 alts like this, log on them and infest nullsec systems to harass out ppl and kill ADM-s at a zone... if i can do it, anyone can and image in a war there will be 10-20 alpha accounts sitting each system in a region...
I say its a smart idea until you get in the factor of ppl who use alts to get intel/gank/harass
Thats my feeling bout it, so please try to work on a system that limits such exploits
|
|
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
135
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:06:48 -
[581] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:
4. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP.
Extracting SPs from the Alpha skill set won't be allowed as the Dev Blog says:
"Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set."
|
Tiddle Jr
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
883
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:06:50 -
[582] - Quote
f2p p2w what's next? I'm about to sell my toons and never bother with subs. My Alpha army is coming...
"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:06:54 -
[583] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I vote only 1 F2P Account allowed on same IP as a sub account, otherwise, 1 Account only. Also, no skills beyond level 3... In addition...
- No Advanced Modules
- No Cloaks at all unless time limit given to prototype cloaks
- T1 cruiser to L1 Mastery no further
- No Mining Barges
- Must maintain security status of -1 or higher
- Cannot start a corporation or alliance
- Abuse of the system/players using F2P will result in permaband of F2P accounts and any subbed accounts, with clear rules as to what constitutes abuse. Of course, this is predicated on the idea of being caught abusing it.
- 1 Billion ISK cap of account. If they have enough ISK to buy Plex, they need to play free that way.
- Market Sell cap of 500 million, can't have any more sell orders at a time than that in value.
I may edit this post with more as I think of it.
Maybe you should read the DevBlog....?
They already state cloaking is out as are cynos for Alphas. Mining barges too based on the requirements are not in the Alpha Skill list. And I think the alliance thing is also covered in the skill lists. As for corporations, that is allowed as players can train corp management to level 1.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:07:45 -
[584] - Quote
Kolmogorow wrote:Moac Tor wrote:
4. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP.
Extracting SPs from the Alpha skill set won't be allowed as the Dev Blog says: "Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set."
Poor Moac....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
329
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:10:06 -
[585] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote: 2) Lots of free players do not always mean lots more paying customers. In a F2P/P2W game about 50% of the players will never pay 2 play despite the fact they are at a significant disadvantage. The Clone model of eve doesnt put them at a significant disadvantage. They can still do everything paying players can, just in crappier ships with crappier mods.
Sooo...they can't do everything a paying player can. Can they use a cloak for a variety of reasons? No. Can they light a cyno? No. Can they use capitals? No. Can they invent T2 modules and the like? No.
Im comparing game models not what a free player eve can do to what a paying player can do.... totally different. In F2P/ P2W models they use a sheep/wolf concept. You either volunteer to be the sheep or you pay to be the wolf. It works because once you get past a 2-4 weeks in game, everything gets stupidly long and you start needing special items for things that can only be bought. Imagine training amarr BS level 5 and it taking 350 days for that one level. Training Amarr dread level 3 and it taking 480 days. training Amarr titan 4 and it taking 2369 days. Then you are offered 5 day speed ups, 50 day speed ups, 500 day speed ups, etc. Every few weeks they move the goal post and introduce new special items that make everything else obsolete or underpowered. It becomes a massive money sink. You would spend less money drunk in Las Vegas than you would just too stay competitive.
In Eve that wont happen. Because i can start a gallente character. And basically farm high sec for months or years and never pay for anything. I dont have to try to compete no more than anyone else. I cant use more powerful ships. But so what? Its high sec.
Give me a Vexor and i can do amazing things with farming in high sec. In fact can Alphas use faction/deadspace? If alphas can use faction and deadspace then they could use a VNI with faction amps, faction prop, and faction tank mods and farm nearly as well as a player that can T2 fit everything. I have an alt that is pro at a gila ( even though Alphas couldnt use this because of the dual ship train) and can get 650 dps out of with less than 5 mil SP and a good enough tank to do DED 5/10s.
They are restricted on trains/ mods/ ships. But there are ways around that without paying and they can farm high sec for infinity competing with paying players who really cant do anything but suicide gank them. Welcome to Space Farmville. Leave your wallet at home, its not needed here. Advanced Alpha Newbro Frustration level V training and will be completed as soon as i scan down my 15th plex today and find a newbro in a caracal/vexor running it for the 14th time. |
James Zimmer
D3RP Clan Elemental Tide
48
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:10:13 -
[586] - Quote
First, I'm very excited about the change. I can already think of a friend who isn't willing to subscribe right now who may be willing to try out a free, limited account.
The next thing is that I think there is an extremely delicate balance that has to be achieved when it comes to skills. Too much and the wrong ones, and they'll become an exploitable alt army (I checked for gas harvesting almost immediately and am relieved that it is not on the list). On the other hand, too few skills, and we're going to have a lot of frustrated newbies who leave EVE with a bad taste in their mouth.
To that end, may I suggest allowing Alphas to fly interceptors. Because of their ability to zip through bubbles and insta-warp, interceptors are the taxi of nullsec, and a huge quality of life improvement for those living there. It would be much easier to recruit someone into a nullsec corp if they could fly them. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:10:15 -
[587] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
he meant extracting "alpha allowed skills" as omega with 5mill+ in omega-only skills and then allowing it to drop back to alpha for reskilling those alpha allowed skills - but the longer I think about it, the more I get to think tha whole idea is just gimped less effective attempt of currently existing SP farms.....
Yeah, as somebody pointed out, not going to be possible.
Quote: Q: Can Alpha clones inject and extract skills?
A: You can Inject skills regardless of your clone state. Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
IcewaterKat
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:10:35 -
[588] - Quote
So the decision for free to play means end of life, like it does for every other game that goes that route.
Wanna be top dog, well pay to win is the way to go. I hate PTW games, it's just pathetic. So does this mean that EVE is turning into FarmVille? Obviously not, but I can see Alpha corps kicking more butt than paying customers.
There is no long any point for casual players to pay EVE any more, unless they just have to fly a tech 2 ship.
I see that any skill that an Alpha Clone can use symbolizes 'nerfed' skills. A lot of those level 4 skills are quite powerful and Level 5 anything is just overkill for what is allowed.
The level of irresponsible griefing that actual paid players can and some most certainly will without consequence, will exceed the level of what CCP will expect. You know we all surprise you with what we pull off already, if we can use it as an exploit for profit or revenge, it will be done with the skills that will surpass expectation.
__TL;DR__
I'm not mad. Nope. not yet. I'll wait until November for that.
I'm disappointed.
Not once was an attempt made to lower the price of subscriptions to try to encourage new players to come to Eve.
Truly disappointed and a bit ashamed that I pay to play EVE Online. |
oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:10:37 -
[589] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Alpha clones will be accessible for free... And so the horde of ret-¦rded kids is coming. .
They've been here for years. |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
17
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:12:08 -
[590] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:In addition...
- No Advanced Modules
- No Cloaks at all unless time limit given to prototype cloaks
- T1 cruiser to L1 Mastery no further
- No Mining Barges
- Must maintain security status of -1 or higher
- Cannot start a corporation or alliance
- Abuse of the system/players using F2P will result in permaband of F2P accounts and any subbed accounts, with clear rules as to what constitutes abuse. Of course, this is predicated on the idea of being caught abusing it.
- 1 Billion ISK cap of account. If they have enough ISK to buy Plex, they need to play free that way.
- Market Sell cap of 500 million, can't have any more sell orders at a time than that in value.
I may edit this post with more as I think of it. [1] covered in a blog [I think] [2]straightly said in the blog [3] I'd have to check how far in mastery allowed skills push the t1 cruiser mastery >.> [4]Mining Barge skill is not on the alpha allowed skill list - hence covered already in a blog [5] interesting note :) [6]IIRC starting eny requires having a skill trained... which skill is not on the list of skilla allowed for alpha clone to use [7]I think they have mentioned in a blog abusing still beign bannable? [8]risky - plex often happens to be above 1bil isk in price [9]that seems to me like redundant and not really needed - with skill limitains they have, what they would have been selling to exceed that mark anyway? |
|
Mento Audrission
Dark Angel's Legion
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:13:09 -
[591] - Quote
The only question is......why? |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
17
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:14:55 -
[592] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
he meant extracting "alpha allowed skills" as omega with 5mill+ in omega-only skills and then allowing it to drop back to alpha for reskilling those alpha allowed skills - but the longer I think about it, the more I get to think tha whole idea is just gimped less effective attempt of currently existing SP farms.....
Yeah, as somebody pointed out, not going to be possible. Quote: Q: Can Alpha clones inject and extract skills?
A: You can Inject skills regardless of your clone state. Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set.
now I feel stupid for reading the blog from the beginning to the end and not noticing the part " and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set." in Q/A >.< |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2941
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:16:12 -
[593] - Quote
Crack Spawn wrote:
Skills based system for spying/infiltrating
lol what?
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:17:40 -
[594] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote: 2) Lots of free players do not always mean lots more paying customers. In a F2P/P2W game about 50% of the players will never pay 2 play despite the fact they are at a significant disadvantage. The Clone model of eve doesnt put them at a significant disadvantage. They can still do everything paying players can, just in crappier ships with crappier mods.
Sooo...they can't do everything a paying player can. Can they use a cloak for a variety of reasons? No. Can they light a cyno? No. Can they use capitals? No. Can they invent T2 modules and the like? No. Im comparing game models not what a free player eve can do to what a paying player can do.... totally different. In F2P/ P2W models they use a sheep/wolf concept. You either volunteer to be the sheep or you pay to be the wolf. It works because once you get past a 2-4 weeks in game, everything gets stupidly long and you start needing special items for things that can only be bought. Imagine training amarr BS level 5 and it taking 350 days for that one level. Training Amarr dread level 3 and it taking 480 days. training Amarr titan 4 and it taking 2369 days. Then you are offered 5 day speed ups, 50 day speed ups, 500 day speed ups, etc. Every few weeks they move the goal post and introduce new special items that make everything else obsolete or underpowered. It becomes a massive money sink. You would spend less money drunk in Las Vegas than you would just too stay competitive.
What?
Quote:In Eve that wont happen. Because i can start a gallente character. And basically farm high sec for months or years and never pay for anything. I dont have to try to compete no more than anyone else. I cant use more powerful ships. But so what? Its high sec.
Wow, you are going run missions and mine for years. Holy Hell I can't think of anything more depressing.
Quote:Give me a Vexor and i can do amazing things with farming in high sec. In fact can Alphas use faction/deadspace? If alphas can use faction and deadspace then they could use a VNI with faction amps, faction prop, and faction tank mods and farm nearly as well as a player that can T2 fit everything. I have an alt that is pro at a gila ( even though Alphas couldnt use this because of the dual ship train) and can get 650 dps out of with less than 5 mil SP and a good enough tank to do DED 5/10s.
Cause farming HS is everything in Eve.
Oh, and if they want to fit deadspace stuff to their VNI fine, I'll look forward to the whine threads on the forums after they get ganked. Hell I might take up ganking mission runners as well.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
626
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:18:20 -
[595] - Quote
IcewaterKat wrote: There is no long any point for casual players to pay EVE any more, unless they just have to fly a tech 2 ship.
T2 ships, most T2 mods, Battlecruisers, battleships, faction ships, cloaks, mining in anything more than a Venture, any type of activity in a wormhole above C2 (with the exception of small bits of exploration), Entosis, research, invention, large-scale manufacturing of anything that makes ISK, PI, effective combat scanning, ice mining, anything to do with any type of structure that matters...
I think I've made my point, so I'm just going to stop here.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3435
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:27:17 -
[596] - Quote
Mento Audrission wrote:The only question is......why? Because subscription numbers, as best as we can tell, have fallen off a cliff compared to a few years ago.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:27:49 -
[597] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
he meant extracting "alpha allowed skills" as omega with 5mill+ in omega-only skills and then allowing it to drop back to alpha for reskilling those alpha allowed skills - but the longer I think about it, the more I get to think tha whole idea is just gimped less effective attempt of currently existing SP farms.....
Yeah, as somebody pointed out, not going to be possible. Quote: Q: Can Alpha clones inject and extract skills?
A: You can Inject skills regardless of your clone state. Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set. now I feel stupid for reading the blog from the beginning to the end and not noticing the part " and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set." in Q/A >.<
Don't feel bad, seems most of us missed it too.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
290
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:28:17 -
[598] - Quote
President Donald Trump will Make America Great Again.
Yeah, this Alpha/Omega Clone idea. I really liked it when I heard it. Having read quite a few posts in here, I think there are some significant problems with it if it isn't tweaked. But I hardly login anymore so it really doesn't matter what I think. |
Pandora Carrollon
Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic.
643
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:33:01 -
[599] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Maybe you should read the DevBlog....?
They already state cloaking is out as are cynos for Alphas. Mining barges too based on the requirements are not in the Alpha Skill list. And I think the alliance thing is also covered in the skill lists. As for corporations, that is allowed as players can train corp management to level 1.
I have read the blog and about everything I can get my hands on ATM, however, I also assume that anything that CCP says at this point is FLUID and thus I want my "voice" to remain on the named issues. I may not hate what CCP is doing but I certainly don't trust them to keep their current position.
I have my reasons for all of them, most of the reasons are based on things I can already think in my head on how to abuse.
8 Golden Rules of EVE GÇó EVE is entirely PvP
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The Leopardess
Viziam Amarr Empire
61
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:33:12 -
[600] - Quote
Just because I send silly amounts of money to this game whenever I look at it sideways doesn't mean I think everyone should - or can. Free play means more people to kill and buy my crap! Yay! I doubt I will even bother owning an alpha unless maybe an extra scout or something. |
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Thomas Lot
Astrocomical Warped Intentions
39
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:33:16 -
[601] - Quote
Idea...
Limit Alpha clones to High and Low security space. Only let the Alpha clones set safety to red if they are in Low Sec. If in High Sec, the safety is set to green/yellow.. |
Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
482
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:33:25 -
[602] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:3) Pity any poor idiot in high-sec. This is the biggest buff to high-sec ganking that I've ever seen. There will be literally no reason why every EVE player shouldn't have a basic ganking account, if not lots of them (see #2). We can already do that because of the last stupid feature the SP extractor. A suicide ganker has a very limited set of kills he needs. Once that is trained up you can simply extract and sell the excess SP to get the next PLEX. I reduced my subscriptions from 3 to 1 and have now 4 account, 3 of them get PLEXed this way. So looks like you once again make a drama about nothing.
Ripard making up stuff on a subject he knows nothing about? I'm shocked! |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
42
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:33:27 -
[603] - Quote
I just entertained quite the amusing thought. ...for every unsubscribed cap / supercap / titan pilot waiting for the day to be worth subscribing again, ...for every unsubscribed bittervet unsatisfied with too many gameplay changes, ...for every unsubscribed person disagreeing with the direction of the game, you have one (or several) Alpha accounts per old eve player who likely has more than enough combat experience to make these maxed out alpha pilots count on t1 ships. And they could come back. All they have to do is log back in. There is this gleeful amusement I harbour how CCP keeps talking about new players, about fresh blood, so many other things... but never about how bringing players back they've lost over the years, or have frozen accounts of existing players resurface.
Here is me painting a picture how these capsules will thaw and seed into "low tier" ships, as old blood returns with a vengeance, bite and ruthlessness which New Eden hasn't seen in a while. You look for new blood, CCP. That's fine, let them come and struggle with an awful NPE. Let those few percent of players managing to overcome the hurdles be welcomed and embedded in the community while the rest gets torn apart. My eyes rest on a different edge of the horizon, seeing how many of the old blood resurface and what they will be up to.
Vic Jefferson wrote:Quality product almost always sells. Why not focus all these efforts on making the product better, rather than simply opening up more avenues to selling it? Work on the NPE driving players to seek other players. Throw a bone to the veteran, persistent subscribers, and soon. What I said before. Unless plans are revealed to majorly polish the NPE (which seems to be ), they will open the polished gates decorated with false promises and let players experience the rough truth.
But what's much more bitter is how CCP seems to be unable to do anything for their NPE, as they've solely relied on the community and third party services to do this job for them for too many years. Unless they show wonders in November, I remain sceptical and say they just can't do it any more. Be it lacking experience from other people leaving or be it decisions done in the wrong direction. They're simply unable. I invite CCP to surprise me and prove me wrong.
Marsha Mallow wrote:The complaint that I don't get here is the 'oh god we're going to be overrun by kiddies and gold sellers and bots.' Uhm, this isn't the type of game that is likely to attract or retain kiddies Am I the only one to remember how terrible gold sellers and mining bots have been a problem before plex have been introduced? Have people forgotten that already? Spam in local and NPC corp was abysmal. "report ISK spammer" right click option was legacy code from right there. It was used plenty. Overnight, it died. CCP did some good job implemented anti-botting and anti-RMT features and they kept on the ball for the longest time. I'd like to pretend they could easily do it again. Also, why would it be different with Alphas than with Trial accounts? Trial accounts have negligible chat spam restrictions. If RMTs really want to make gold in eve, they would still be trying their hardest and trial account abuse would still be giant. Alpha clones will not change that. Everything working right now to prevent any and all these practices, will prevent Alpha surges. We might see a little bit more in November, and CCP will monitor and hammer it back again.
And for all that's worth, we don't get the raging foaming "Call of Battlefield" type kiddies. The teens of this type trying at the game do not last the trial period anyway. The younger ones who do enjoy it, stay. Their mindset is completely different. Thus they play different games, like EvE.
Iowa Banshee wrote:Was a reply to someone request cyno be added to list of skill ...read the posts...Sheesh I did, which didn't make your statements of supposed encouragement for a doomed idea any less ridiculous. It's still wrong and will remain wrong in regards to Alpha / Trial accounts being used as Candles. Only because they've trained the skill doesn't mean they can use it as Alpha Clone. Because they can't. They never will. And CCP won't allow it. CCP knows well enough how much they would break the game if the'd allow it. Cynosural Field Theory was never trainable on trial accounts to my knowledge, regardless of NPE iteration. For a reason.
Ima Wreckyou wrote:- Can only use ships to run level 2 missions? Buy a PLEX with $ and get more ISK! - Only extremely slow SP accumulation? Buy more PLEX with $ and get more SP! - Only crappy ships and modules? Pay 15$ a month to access all the other toys! - Paid those 15$ and now you need even more SP and ISK? Get some more PLEX for $!!! This just looks really horrible for a new player How out of touch with reality are you? All these restrictions have been imposed on trial accounts for the longest of times until the recent changes a few months ago, though I'd like to see a newbro going anywhere with a battleship in less than 14 / 30 days.
Seriously. Folks frothing at the mouth how bad Alpha players will have it starting as if trial accounts never existed. Reality check.
Zockhandra wrote:Okay, so what happens when you need to evac your stuff from a pos/Citadel. But then you cant fly your x ship. Or your in a super, but only you cant jump and you cant pay a sub because x problem? Alternatively, your a new player who can no longer afford to sub after 4 months of subbed play, now all your skills are gone and your back to square one? How about writing a support ticket and see where it will lead? There was a time when people's capitals got moved through a ticket because they've been months in "hostile space" if memory serves me correctly. |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
18
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:33:38 -
[604] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
he meant extracting "alpha allowed skills" as omega with 5mill+ in omega-only skills and then allowing it to drop back to alpha for reskilling those alpha allowed skills - but the longer I think about it, the more I get to think tha whole idea is just gimped less effective attempt of currently existing SP farms.....
Yeah, as somebody pointed out, not going to be possible. Quote: Q: Can Alpha clones inject and extract skills?
A: You can Inject skills regardless of your clone state. Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set. now I feel stupid for reading the blog from the beginning to the end and not noticing the part " and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set." in Q/A >.< Don't feel bad, seems most of us missed it too.
b..but for half the thread I'm bashing ppl for not reading the devblog and asking about cyno and cloacking :P |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
329
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:34:31 -
[605] - Quote
Ill try to dumb it down for you..
In P2W games they have a system in which free players are no more than sheep...that is they are basically there for P2W players to farm. That intentional mechanic provides content for P2W players and acts as an incentive to "buy in". Eve has no such mechanic because players are protected by concord. There has never been a reason to have such a system in Eve. So a free player in Eve can literally farm for an infinite amount of time and as long as they dont leave high sec be mostly protected from being farmed themselves.
Quote:Wow, you are going run missions and mine for years. Holy Hell I can't think of anything more depressing.
You really should undock more. There are people in Eve that do nothing but mine for 8-12 hours a days for years on end. And there will be players doing every faucet of PVE like that. And Eve players arent even close to what free play will bring in. Your going to see farmers on a whole new level. Farmers that will keep ratting, mining, and running sites like little lemmings despite the obstacles you put in their way.
You think Eve PVERs are bad you havent seen anything yet, Wait till you get a load of the F2P crowd.
Quote:Cause farming HS is everything in Eve. For some people mining in high sec is enough. Not everyone requires the same level of entertainment. Just like some people can sit on the front porch for hours and be entertained by the nothingness that happens in front of their house. |
Roland Schlosser
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate
21
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:34:36 -
[606] - Quote
Alphas should not be allowed multiple clients open. The feature is intended to bring new blood in, not allow current players to have as many disposable alts as they please.
Corporation management should also be removed form the Alpha skills list, same reasoning as above. New, potentially temporary, players should be funneled into existing Corps, not allowed to create permanent in game entities.
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Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
425
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:38:08 -
[607] - Quote
The more i ponder this the more I am left with one bad feeling:
I pay for this game, a monthly fee of 10-15$ a month. The wonder of EvE is that at any moment I can lose everything that I have built up. However I am losing it to someone who is my equal - someone who has paid and built up their version of the game. So in a sense we are equals.
Now we are going to have a new class of folks, those that have invested nothing in to the game, paid not a nickle, and they potentially could have the same effect of destroying all that someone has built up and actually paid for. That to me does not seem 'fair'.
In every other MMO you don't lose your stuff when you die. You simply re spawn and move on, maybe pay a repair bill to take the damage out or refresh your armor. EvE is that unique and wondrous thing where dying has consequences.
Not that I should be stupid and carry everything in a T1 hauler, but there are those out there that do that. The more I think about it the more these accounts MUST be restricted in high sec. They cannot be allowed to gank, period.
I can justify dying to another sub, because we both have 'real isk', on the line. But dying to someone who has not paid a penny just simply does not seem fair.
I also have concerns about how they can be used in some of the war dec corps. Abuse of war dec to gain "ganking" access will be something CCP has to think long and hard about. We want newbro's to join corps, but to allow them to be abused by people who use VPN or other technologies and open up dozens of gank alts, this is where there is going to be a problem, I am not sure CCP has the technology or the staff levels to monitor and ensure that this is policed and does not become an issue.
I think those that wish to have the full pirate/gank experience should have to pay for it like I do. Failing to restrict these accounts from ganking will I believe be the nail in the coffin of this game, as many players I have spoken to are feeling this right now, we paid for a game, now someone can come in for 'free' and potentially destroy all that we have built, but never pay a cent or invest in EvE's future. |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
18
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:41:39 -
[608] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:The more i ponder this the more I am left with one bad feeling:
I pay for this game, a monthly fee of 10-15$ a month. The wonder of EvE is that at any moment I can lose everything that I have built up. However I am losing it to someone who is my equal - someone who has paid and built up their version of the game. So in a sense we are equals.
Now we are going to have a new class of folks, those that have invested nothing in to the game, paid not a nickle, and they potentially could have the same effect of destroying all that someone has built up and actually paid for. That to me does not seem 'fair'.
In every other MMO you don't lose your stuff when you die. You simply re spawn and move on, maybe pay a repair bill to take the damage out or refresh your armor. EvE is that unique and wondrous thing where dying has consequences.
Not that I should be stupid and carry everything in a T1 hauler, but there are those out there that do that. The more I think about it the more these accounts MUST be restricted in high sec. They cannot be allowed to gank, period.
I can justify dying to another sub, because we both have 'real isk', on the line. But dying to someone who has not paid a penny just simply does not seem fair.
I also have concerns about how they can be used in some of the war dec corps. Abuse of war dec to gain "ganking" access will be something CCP has to think long and hard about. We want newbro's to join corps, but to allow them to be abused by people who use VPN or other technologies and open up dozens of gank alts, this is where there is going to be a problem, I am not sure CCP has the technology or the staff levels to monitor and ensure that this is policed and does not become an issue.
I think those that wish to have the full pirate/gank experience should have to pay for it like I do. Failing to restrict these accounts from ganking will I believe be the nail in the coffin of this game, as many players I have spoken to are feeling this right now, we paid for a game, now someone can come in for 'free' and potentially destroy all that we have built, but never pay a cent or invest in EvE's future.
I think I get your point although I'm not sure if using word "fair" was a best choice here...... It is EvE after all, I thought the lack of any "fairness" was one of main selling points here? |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3435
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:43:07 -
[609] - Quote
What I'm most worried about is the scenario where a pile of curious Alpha State newbies show up and are promptly sent running in tears for the exit by the terminally awful NPE, as happened with previous influxes (This Is Eve, etc).
What is CCP doing to improve this situation?
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2941
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:43:07 -
[610] - Quote
The Leopardess wrote:Just because I send silly amounts of money to this game whenever I look at it sideways doesn't mean I think everyone should - or can. Free play means more people to kill and buy my crap! Yay! I doubt I will even bother owning an alpha unless maybe an extra scout or something.
yeah tell that to SWOTR.... god that game went down hill
Citadel worm hole tax
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Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
425
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:45:03 -
[611] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:What I'm most worried about is the scenario where a pile of curious Alpha State newbies show up and are promptly sent running in tears for the exit by the terminally awful NPE, as happened with previous influxes (This Is Eve, etc).
What is CCP doing to improve this situation?
CCP dev posted earlier that NPE will be getting an overhaul. |
XeeN Aurilen
Air Force Special Ops Wormhole Holders
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:48:10 -
[612] - Quote
Wat next? drive your Vanquisher for 119.99 DDK per month? |
Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
426
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:49:25 -
[613] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:The more i ponder this the more I am left with one bad feeling:
I pay for this game, a monthly fee of 10-15$ a month. The wonder of EvE is that at any moment I can lose everything that I . I think I get your point although I'm not sure if using word "fair" was a best choice here...... It is EvE after all, I thought the lack of any "fairness" was one of main selling points here?
I was searching for the correct word to use, but kept coming back to fair.....I agree one of the greatest appeals of EvE is that you can lose everything. To some that is fantastic to the risk adverse its utter terror.
For me its more about having paid and invested in to something, only to now have to lose it to someone who has done nothing basically, except fit a kitty or thrasher which are the most basic of basics.
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2960
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:49:52 -
[614] - Quote
Thomas Lot wrote:Idea...
Limit Alpha clones to High and Low security space. Only let the Alpha clones set safety to red if they are in Low Sec. If in High Sec, the safety is set to green/yellow.. Why would you keep them out of null? If anything, keep them out of highsec.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
426
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:53:42 -
[615] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:The Leopardess wrote:Just because I send silly amounts of money to this game whenever I look at it sideways doesn't mean I think everyone should - or can. Free play means more people to kill and buy my crap! Yay! I doubt I will even bother owning an alpha unless maybe an extra scout or something. yeah tell that to SWOTR.... god that game went down hill
You sir are 100% correct SWTOR has become nothing but a meh game attached to a Pay Shop. |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
199
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:56:39 -
[616] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Ill try to dumb it down for you.. In P2W games they have a system in which free players are no more than sheep...that is they are basically there for P2W players to farm. That intentional mechanic provides content for P2W players and acts as an incentive to "buy in". Eve has no such mechanic because players are protected by concord. There has never been a reason to have such a system in Eve. So a free player in Eve can literally farm for an infinite amount of time and as long as they dont leave high sec be mostly protected from being farmed themselves. Quote:Wow, you are going run missions and mine for years. Holy Hell I can't think of anything more depressing.
You really should undock more. There are people in Eve that do nothing but mine for 8-12 hours a days for years on end. And there will be players doing every faucet of PVE like that. And Eve players arent even close to what free play will bring in. Your going to see farmers on a whole new level. Farmers that will keep ratting, mining, and running sites like little lemmings despite the obstacles you put in their way. You think Eve PVERs are bad you havent seen anything yet, Wait till you get a load of the F2P crowd. Quote:Cause farming HS is everything in Eve. For some people mining in high sec is enough. Not everyone requires the same level of entertainment. Just like some people can sit on the front porch for hours and be entertained by the nothingness that happens in front of their house. CCP, listen to this man. |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
627
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:57:05 -
[617] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:What I'm most worried about is the scenario where a pile of curious Alpha State newbies show up and are promptly sent running in tears for the exit by the terminally awful NPE, as happened with previous influxes (This Is Eve, etc).
What is CCP doing to improve this situation? CCP dev posted earlier that NPE will be getting an overhaul. On Reddit, of course. No sense in making mention of it in the Dev Blog that's devoted to an idea to bring new players in, nor anywhere in the 30+ page thread it spawned.
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/50hcpc/welcome_to_free_to_play_eve/d741gzt
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15133
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:59:08 -
[618] - Quote
Will they be able to send ISK to other accounts, and to write in chat and to send PM's?
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2272
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:59:45 -
[619] - Quote
Soltys wrote:For any potential veteran / returnee - this is not f2p, this is completely pointless (they can at best "retry" the game on some fresh alt) A long-time player who's been unsubscribed could log back on to their existing character in the Alpha clone state and play the game that way for a while, reconnect socially, and maybe buy a PLEX in-game or pay for a subscription if something exciting happens or they decide it's worth it, and drop back to free play when things slow down for them.
A veteran player who's paying monthly now but has to take a month or two away from serious Eve play for personal reasons could end their subscription but still log on occasionally to stay involved, then resubscribe and be back where they had been when it makes sense.
A player who would love to keep playing but can't justify the subscription cost can drop back to Alpha status on their existing character and stay involved, remain connected with their corp, fly in fleets with their friends, and be under no pressure to grind out the ISK for a PLEX.
If clone states were just an extended trial, it wouldn't offer these options to veteran Eve players.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Myopic Thyne
Adamas Anima
38
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Posted - 2016.08.31 23:01:04 -
[620] - Quote
Please explain to me how you're going to stop me using multiplexikng software in disposable VMs with a proxy? You cannot play an infinite game of cat and mouse with the would-be abusers of this. You're adding an infinite into the mix here, and if you give people infinite time and infinite tries, they're going to beat you at being able to stop them, this is a forgone conclusion. In no world will the amount of money you make allow you to stop thousands of botters with infinite free tries.
Why is there this reckless greed? This isn't about 'adding more players' or 'making the game more fun' this is about haphazard and reckless greed, are the $80 monocles and "Greed is Good" campaign coming back, too?
Alpha clone players are ALSO not going to get what they expect, the general expectations of a free to play game are they you are allowed to play on even footing with other people. The literal first rule of free to play is "Don't sell power" what do you THINK what you're doing is? If anything you're going to be working towards a reputation that will take only a month or two before over a decade of awesome reputation is obliterated by being a bad free to play game, but that's ok if you can try to force some more money out of eve, right?
Get with a someone who actually knows how to handle a free to play and discuss this, do not handle it on your own, because you're not handling it, you're making a mistake so big that even as the company who we jokingly make fun of for it's mistakes I find it hard to believe that you would even consider this a good idea. |
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Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
427
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:03:19 -
[621] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Soltys wrote:For any potential veteran / returnee - this is not f2p, this is completely pointless (they can at best "retry" the game on some fresh alt) A long-time player who's been unsubscribed could log back on to their existing character in the Alpha clone state and play the game that way for a while, reconnect socially, and maybe buy a PLEX in-game or pay for a subscription if something exciting happens or they decide it's worth it, and drop back to free play when things slow down for them. A veteran player who's paying monthly now but has to take a month or two away from serious Eve play for personal reasons could end their subscription but still log on occasionally to stay involved, then resubscribe and be back where they had been when it makes sense. A player who would love to keep playing but can't justify the subscription cost can drop back to Alpha status on their existing character and stay involved, remain connected with their corp, fly in fleets with their friends, and be under no pressure to grind out the ISK for a PLEX. If clone states were just an extended trial, it wouldn't offer these options to veteran Eve players.
It is this that I support 100%. During the past year and half I have had 10 weeks of chemo and a bunch of other bloody awful things happen. I did unsub for a bit, and I truly missed those friend I had in game, not being able to just stop in and say hello etc.. I still had some I could text and stuff, but it was somehow not the same.
Now that I am partially better I have resubed, however should the need arise again I may have to unsub, now I can at least come back and say hello when I am able. That is a good thing I think. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2942
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:05:18 -
[622] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Soltys wrote:For any potential veteran / returnee - this is not f2p, this is completely pointless (they can at best "retry" the game on some fresh alt) A long-time player who's been unsubscribed could log back on to their existing character in the Alpha clone state and play the game that way for a while, reconnect socially, and maybe buy a PLEX in-game or pay for a subscription if something exciting happens or they decide it's worth it, and drop back to free play when things slow down for them. A veteran player who's paying monthly now but has to take a month or two away from serious Eve play for personal reasons could end their subscription but still log on occasionally to stay involved, then resubscribe and be back where they had been when it makes sense. A player who would love to keep playing but can't justify the subscription cost can drop back to Alpha status on their existing character and stay involved, remain connected with their corp, fly in fleets with their friends, and be under no pressure to grind out the ISK for a PLEX. If clone states were just an extended trial, it wouldn't offer these options to veteran Eve players.
CCP the last thing you want to do is try to defend this as F2P you would be better off saying it is extended trial.
basically stop digging you'll hit bedrock before long
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2942
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:06:28 -
[623] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:Soltys wrote:For any potential veteran / returnee - this is not f2p, this is completely pointless (they can at best "retry" the game on some fresh alt) A long-time player who's been unsubscribed could log back on to their existing character in the Alpha clone state and play the game that way for a while, reconnect socially, and maybe buy a PLEX in-game or pay for a subscription if something exciting happens or they decide it's worth it, and drop back to free play when things slow down for them. A veteran player who's paying monthly now but has to take a month or two away from serious Eve play for personal reasons could end their subscription but still log on occasionally to stay involved, then resubscribe and be back where they had been when it makes sense. A player who would love to keep playing but can't justify the subscription cost can drop back to Alpha status on their existing character and stay involved, remain connected with their corp, fly in fleets with their friends, and be under no pressure to grind out the ISK for a PLEX. If clone states were just an extended trial, it wouldn't offer these options to veteran Eve players. It is this that I support 100%. During the past year and half I have had 10 weeks of chemo and a bunch of other bloody awful things happen. I did unsub for a bit, and I truly missed those friend I had in game, not being able to just stop in and say hello etc.. I still had some I could text and stuff, but it was somehow not the same. Now that I am partially better I have resubed, however should the need arise again I may have to unsub, now I can at least come back and say hello when I am able. That is a good thing I think.
this is why my friends and i use things like TS and even a FB page for our in game toons
Citadel worm hole tax
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Soleil Fournier
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
142
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:06:44 -
[624] - Quote
It's annoying to try and read the new skills window categories section because the wording goes sideways and from bottom to top. This has the effect of making me want to turn my head to the left horizontally to read them.
It would be much easier to read if the wording on these categories flowed vertically from the top to bottom instead. This would make it so I wouldn't need to crank my head in order to read them. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
332
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:07:03 -
[625] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:The Leopardess wrote:Just because I send silly amounts of money to this game whenever I look at it sideways doesn't mean I think everyone should - or can. Free play means more people to kill and buy my crap! Yay! I doubt I will even bother owning an alpha unless maybe an extra scout or something. yeah tell that to SWOTR.... god that game went down hill You sir are 100% correct SWTOR has become nothing but a meh game attached to a Pay Shop. In that case, however, the free-to-play mechanics came in AFTER the game was already headed downhill in a hurry, and that was entirely related to the lackluster design of the original game. It was basically a 4-player co-op game that attempted to also be an MMO and failed.
I think you guys are getting your causation mixed up. Yes, in the majority of cases where an MMO went free-to-play, it came in after a dramatic loss of players associated with bad design decisions, but that isn't the case here. EVE has experienced a slow decline in players primarily due to old veterans growing up and moving on with their lives, and more people deciding they don't want to get locked in to spending $15 a month for years to play a video game.
The whole thing of every reduction of the PCU count being as a result of CCP driving away their customers is bullshit. That's the same bullshit that was brought up before EVERY update this game has ever had even while it was expanding in player count year after year. As many people have pointed out before me, EVE Online is the game that has been dying and in it's last few months of life ever since it launched in 2003 if you believe the Forums.
Again, pointing out your concerns so they can be addressed is exactly what CCP has been requesting multiple times in each of these last two DevBlogs, but throwing around doom prophecies because you're scared of change isn't going to help anything.
Yes, when Skill Injectors were first announced, I had a STRONG knee-jerk reaction and thought it was a terrible idea. Then I took some time to think about how the idea was presented and how it would function and realized that it would actually have no impact whatsoever on my day-to-day experience and would be quite beneficial for others. Everyone here in this thread right now needs to give themselves the time to calm down and think rationally.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Kon Kre8r
5
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Posted - 2016.08.31 23:07:17 -
[626] - Quote
Now you want to pay your employees to spend more time altering this game so free loaders can stall your Ti-Di and ruin the experience for current paying players (known as Customers) - instead of making the game better to attract new customers? [/b]
You could even extend the free trial period :) Now that really would handle this "huge problem of new players needing more time to decide to pay for game"
You could get people more willing to pay to play. You could get the customers so pleased and so excited that they even show support with purchases of things like posters -- as well as monthly account subs!
You could start doing any of the things Paying Customers are suggesting!
You could even start with something simple to ease into this new concept of Customer Satisfaction. ...like allowing Black Ops Ships to use Covert Cloaks as well as the Covert Jumps to Covert Cynos!
You could alter the game to make use of "high-end/64 bit" capable systems like the Nintendo 64 ! You could attract paying customers to the idea of running multiple PAID accounts at the same time via this game's new and better use of dual-graphics cards.
You could even consider paying an employee to be dedicated to considering our ideas and Actually passing along these ideas to yet Another employee that is dedicated to Actually making them happen :)
Black Ops ships using Covert Jump Portals to reach Covert Cynos
need to be allowed to use Covert Cloaks
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
729
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:08:28 -
[627] - Quote
Kolmogorow wrote:Moac Tor wrote:
4. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP.
Extracting SPs from the Alpha skill set won't be allowed as the Dev Blog says: "Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set." Yes I am aware of the fact it is in the Devblog. The word 'currently' sounds as though they are open to changing their minds though which is why I am emphasising that they should not change their mind on this.
There are obvious reasons as to why CCP would want to allow extraction of any skills, but for reasons of this being easily exploitable (despite the some of the respondents on here not being to smart to figure this one out *shakes head*), I hope they don't go down this route as it will devalue SP.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
|
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
628
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:08:42 -
[628] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Soltys wrote:For any potential veteran / returnee - this is not f2p, this is completely pointless (they can at best "retry" the game on some fresh alt) A long-time player who's been unsubscribed could log back on to their existing character in the Alpha clone state and play the game that way for a while, reconnect socially, and maybe buy a PLEX in-game or pay for a subscription if something exciting happens or they decide it's worth it, and drop back to free play when things slow down for them. A veteran player who's paying monthly now but has to take a month or two away from serious Eve play for personal reasons could end their subscription but still log on occasionally to stay involved, then resubscribe and be back where they had been when it makes sense. A player who would love to keep playing but can't justify the subscription cost can drop back to Alpha status on their existing character and stay involved, remain connected with their corp, fly in fleets with their friends, and be under no pressure to grind out the ISK for a PLEX. If clone states were just an extended trial, it wouldn't offer these options to veteran Eve players. Thinking of vets and people who have since left EVE, is there any consideration to offering unsubbed accounts a week or two free when the Alpha clones take effect in November? A lot of places and companies always offer great deals and offers for newcomers, but existing customers tend to be forgotten about when it comes to promotions. Offering unsubbed accounts a free week to come back when Alpha clones get opened up might give them a chance to get their drive back, or at least hyped a bit, in a way that the Alpha restrictions wouldn't due to their likelihood of having bigger ships and different activities than what are available to Alpha characters.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
427
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:10:59 -
[629] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:Soltys wrote:For any potential veteran / returnee - this is not f2p, this is completely pointless (they can at best "retry" the game on some fresh alt) A long-time player who's been unsubscribed could log back on to their existing character in the Alpha clone state and play the game that way for a while, reconnect socially, and maybe buy a PLEX in-game or pay for a subscription if something exciting happens or they decide it's worth it, and drop back to free play when things slow down for them. A veteran player who's paying monthly now but has to take a month or two away from serious Eve play for personal reasons could end their subscription but still log on occasionally to stay involved, then resubscribe and be back where they had been when it makes sense. A player who would love to keep playing but can't justify the subscription cost can drop back to Alpha status on their existing character and stay involved, remain connected with their corp, fly in fleets with their friends, and be under no pressure to grind out the ISK for a PLEX. If clone states were just an extended trial, it wouldn't offer these options to veteran Eve players. Thinking of vets and people who have since left EVE, is there any consideration to offering unsubbed accounts a week or two free when the Alpha clones take effect in November? A lot of places and companies always offer great deals and offers for newcomers, but existing customers tend to be forgotten about when it comes to promotions. Offering unsubbed accounts a free week to come back when Alpha clones get opened up might give them a chance to get their drive back, or at least hyped a bit, in a way that the Alpha restrictions wouldn't due to their likelihood of having bigger ships and different activities than what are available to Alpha characters.
This is a terrific idea - give old Omega's a few days/week to come back and try EvE again, then flop to the Alpha status. Could be something CCP does on a recuring basis to bring some of our old bro's back. |
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations Phoenix Naval Systems
408
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:12:25 -
[630] - Quote
This doesn't read like "free to play" so much as it does " free to trial". This sounds like a very limited option designed to allow someone to really try the game out without a 30 day restriction or play from a very casual perspective.
So long as the cash shop remains as is, I have no problem with this.
EVE is one of the few traditional PC games out there, don't lose that.
"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."
-Cold Wind
|
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Pandora Carrollon
Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic.
643
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:13:01 -
[631] - Quote
Roland Schlosser wrote:Alphas should not be allowed multiple clients open. The feature is intended to bring new blood in, not allow current players to have as many disposable alts as they please.
Corporation management should also be removed form the Alpha skills list, same reasoning as above. New, potentially temporary, players should be funneled into existing Corps, not allowed to create permanent in game entities.
I agree on your last point but disagree on your first. At least 1 F2P account should be allowed on line per sub account, otherwise a sub account becomes a detriment. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. 1 F2P account likely wouldn't create any more havoc than normal and might balance out some of the multi-boxing issues that currently exist. It would also be incentive for the F2P players to get a sub account so they could multi-box.
In all fairness, I am representing my own self interest here as this is something *I'd* like to be available to me. So, full disclosure there.
8 Golden Rules of EVE GÇó EVE is entirely PvP
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
150
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:18:10 -
[632] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:This is a terrific idea - give old Omega's a few days/week to come back and try EvE again, then flop to the Alpha status. Could be something CCP does on a recuring basis to bring some of our old bro's back.
Instead of recurring make it automatic, for example:
For each account that hasn't logged for 1 month or more, offer free Omega clone for say 2 days. Up to 7 days maxium.
Or anything similar along those lines, with whatever granularity deemed sensible.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
483
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:18:28 -
[633] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:The Leopardess wrote:Just because I send silly amounts of money to this game whenever I look at it sideways doesn't mean I think everyone should - or can. Free play means more people to kill and buy my crap! Yay! I doubt I will even bother owning an alpha unless maybe an extra scout or something. yeah tell that to SWOTR.... god that game went down hill
SWTOR's woes weren't solely due to the free-to-play implementation. It was **** years before that. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2942
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:18:35 -
[634] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:The Leopardess wrote:Just because I send silly amounts of money to this game whenever I look at it sideways doesn't mean I think everyone should - or can. Free play means more people to kill and buy my crap! Yay! I doubt I will even bother owning an alpha unless maybe an extra scout or something. yeah tell that to SWOTR.... god that game went down hill You sir are 100% correct SWTOR has become nothing but a meh game attached to a Pay Shop. In that case, however, the free-to-play mechanics came in AFTER the game was already headed downhill in a hurry, and that was entirely related to the lackluster design of the original game. It was basically a 4-player co-op game that attempted to also be an MMO and failed. I think you guys are getting your causation mixed up. Yes, in the majority of cases where an MMO went free-to-play, it came in after a dramatic loss of players associated with bad design decisions, but that isn't the case here. EVE has experienced a slow decline in players primarily due to old veterans growing up and moving on with their lives, and more people deciding they don't want to get locked in to spending $15 a month for years to play a video game. The whole thing of every reduction of the PCU count being as a result of CCP driving away their customers is bullshit. That's the same bullshit that was brought up before EVERY update this game has ever had even while it was expanding in player count year after year. As many people have pointed out before me, EVE Online is the game that has been dying and in it's last few months of life ever since it launched in 2003 if you believe the Forums. Again, pointing out your concerns so they can be addressed is exactly what CCP has been requesting multiple times in each of these last two DevBlogs, but throwing around doom prophecies because you're scared of change isn't going to help anything. Yes, when Skill Injectors were first announced, I had a STRONG knee-jerk reaction and thought it was a terrible idea. Then I took some time to think about how the idea was presented and how it would function and realized that it would actually have no impact whatsoever on my day-to-day experience and would be quite beneficial for others. Everyone here in this thread right now needs to give themselves the time to calm down and think rationally.
no the major decline doesn't even come from gameplay directly but in things like customer help. suddenly there are more ppl needing help and most of those ppl are not paying enough to keep the support staff growing at the same rate. THIS is what leads to the majority of issues and ppl getting dissatisfied.
Citadel worm hole tax
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Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
102
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:19:44 -
[635] - Quote
A question I've seen asked once or twice here, but not answered: What happens to the referral system? Obviously you won't be getting a longer trial from it, but will there still be buddy links that award PLEX (or whatever we're going to use for Omega upgrades) when my friend subscribes? It would be nice to be able to toss some ISK the way of a friend, but I don't have the cash reserves to be handing out a bil to everyone who joins up.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Pirokobo
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:21:06 -
[636] - Quote
Questions:
1. Is it deliberate that alphas can't train any levels of infomorph psychology?
2. Isn't that kind of a **** thing to do to them? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1198
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:23:37 -
[637] - Quote
Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are,
could you make it any more obvious how poorly the csm is treated by ccp |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2943
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:26:58 -
[638] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, could you make it any more obvious how poorly the csm is treated by ccp
you could look at examples from the last two years
i mean at least this time they just didn't tell them
they could have showed them one version of it got their approval and then go ahead with something completely different
Citadel worm hole tax
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:28:34 -
[639] - Quote
so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
332
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:36:08 -
[640] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone!
How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand?
EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
|
|
Christopher Mabata
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
409
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:39:53 -
[641] - Quote
So i heard about this on the news apps i follow earlier, got about 12 different texts from friends who knew i used to play and had to come see for myself. So it seems it is true, and i'm impressed.
Now i may be out of touch since i haven't played since early 2015 late 2014 but i think a stream of new characters joining the game is good, both for CCP and for many people here as well. My only real concern here though is the race restriction. I understand wanting to keep alphas out of pirate faction ships but for returning players such as myself it could prove an issue for a select few of us. ( or perhaps not so few, who am i to know? )
Now on to my point:
See when i started the game, knowing absolutely nothing years ago i choose the Caldari because i liked the way the ships looked ( Except the Blackbird Back then and the Condor ) and because i liked the sound of the faction, now years later i wound up specializing in Gallente and Amarr as well to the point now where i have more SP in Gallente related skills than i do in Caldari. ( More ships, More Drones SP, More Gunnery SP than missiles, Tank, etc. )
If i ever lapsed down to Alpha when things got slow for me again being locked out of ships such as the vexor would be frustrating since i can fly that much better than i can a caracal right now. Granted i have shy of 3 months to prepare, which i re-subbed for and am doing now, but for others who come back later and cannot make a skill queue now; who did the same thing i did it could be a rough edge that might keep some older players away from even the alpha stage to ease back into things. Not to mention brand-newbies but ill get into that in a sec
I would propose simply making the ships themselves require Alpha/Omega Status so players could still use a vexor or a caracal or an arbitrator if they chose Matari as their base race rather than sticking them in a faction they may no longer even fly. And at the same time as an Alpha i cant hop in a Cruor or whatever others i can fly without paying to access the ship like everyone in Omega status.
I get that its trying to restrict these clones to the 5Million SP range but restricting a new player like that could mean they put a lot of time into their pilot ( in terms of alphas not the long game for many of us 50/100m SP+ Accounts ), decide they like another faction more and then have to start all over if they dont want to subscribe yet which could be discouraging. then the older players such as myself like i already stated and so on. At least they should be able to sample each faction even if its only up to cruisers with T1 fits like the list seems to suggest is the case.
Just my 2 cents, now anyways back to figuring out the better part of 2 years of patch notes 07
GÖú Theory-Crafter GÖú Free Agent GÖú Immortal Space Pirate GÖú "Better the Devil you Know than the devil you don't" -Observing and dismantling F&I Discussion Threads since 2013Gäó
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
931
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:41:14 -
[642] - Quote
Okay seeing as Im not going to read the entire 32 pages and growing thread Ill put in my two cents right now instead
FW LP farming and anom farming will be the most abused. Venture mining in high sec with max skills will net half of a starting characters yield in a procurer. 6.2m2 but will have a tank of a wet paper bag and be alphable by thrashers all over the place.
To solve the ganking yes yellow or green safeties only because we want them to steal loot and be fiendish without ganking.
Multiple log ins should be curtailed to some degree definitely. Eyes in every system will be the norm I think.
Give all the racial industrials to everyone. It is the one ship class that shouldnt be limited to racial lines. Mostly because then you will end up with most being gallente or else you are stuck with sub par industrials for everything. Gallente got the buff with the iteron split and the implementation of specific holds to the different races need to still be something everyone can enjoy.
In regards to manufacturing and trade. The skills limit Manufacturing to 5 production lines and 12 trade orders. This is an abuseable number imo. We already see the Jita alts that come in numbered into the hundreds of alts and this will simply make it worse AND create it in all the hubs en masse. With the introduction of Citadels and their 0% broker fees and the range to change orders at L2 it will create a HUGE imbalance as free alts sit and trade all day and manufacture as well.
The implementation is actually well done and doesnt **** me off at all tbh as Eve was already free to play if you had even half a brain. Though I do doubt it will bring in the new subs as much as originally thought but it could so Im okay waiting and seeing what the future holds.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Wrecking Machine.
1123
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:41:52 -
[643] - Quote
Nice idea. I think fitting skills - akin to the learning skills of old they're a bit annoying - should be a little less restricted. Getting the basic ones to V and AWU to 3 should help. This is from the perspective of someone routinely supplying ships to people.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
|
Rendering
Ten Dollar Bond GoonSwarm
7
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:42:04 -
[644] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone! How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand? EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors.
EvilWeasel isn't really known for reading comprehension. |
Mitch Taylor
Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine.
100
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:45:31 -
[645] - Quote
I think they know what they are doing...
they do know what they are doing right?
DARK
RISING
Stop playing EVE
Start living it
|
Kopaka Newton
Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate.
15
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:48:43 -
[646] - Quote
I don't think alpha clones should be racially locked. The other restrictions are fine, but really it wouldn't tip the balance of the game if an alpha had acess to all the T1 frigs on the same character. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2943
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:51:48 -
[647] - Quote
Mitch Taylor wrote:I think they know what they are doing... they do know what they are doing right?
yeah i mean they added dailies for S- .... well i mean i'm sure they do why doubt them
Citadel worm hole tax
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:51:54 -
[648] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone! How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand? EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors. holy **** you're dumb
you can fill up way more than one extractor per plex cycle |
Fedo Otsolen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:53:51 -
[649] - Quote
#burnjita still not trending.... I think this is a troll.... |
Ichi Uno
Jackwagon Express
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:54:11 -
[650] - Quote
Rendering wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone! How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand? EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors. EvilWeasel isn't really known for reading comprehension.
The current barrier to entry in the SP farming trade is the initial 5 mil SP. You extract at 5.5 mil back down to 5 mil, rinse & repeat. Assuming that this change drives SP farming margins to 0, its still worth doing to provide near unlimited Omega alts after the sunk cost for things like PI, Skiff miners, cyno, AFK cloakys - whatever you want |
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
924
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:59:56 -
[651] - Quote
My $0.02: By and large, I think this is a good idea from CCP and it's one I hope will be accompanied by an advertising blitz to draw in new players.
I'll be interested to see what, if any, multiple log-in restrictions are implemented.
A few points: 1: Alphas should not be able to use Cloaks nor light Cynosural Fields. Cloaks are great. Cynos are great. Free disposable alts with cloaks and cynos? Please think very carefully about that one.
2: Think very carefully about allowing Alphas to fly the Venture. My first thought when reading about this was: Sweet, I can stash a 20 Alpha Account Venture fleet in my Wormhole to crack any Ore anomalies that turn up. I'll do it too, unless there's some mechanical reason preventing me. I have a rather grunty PC. If I go into potato mode, I daresay I could fairly easily run those 20 accounts. I also daresay I won't be the only one.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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beakerax
Pator Tech School
301
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:00:10 -
[652] - Quote
We should stop calling this free to play. This is more like indefinite trials (but with even more restrictions).
Ichi Uno wrote:The current barrier to entry in the SP farming trade is the initial 5 mil SP. Since the alpha clone skills already cannot be extracted, why not make them also not count towards the 5mil extraction minimum? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:00:35 -
[653] - Quote
Ichi Uno wrote: The current barrier to entry in the SP farming trade is the initial 5 mil SP. You extract at 5.5 mil back down to 5 mil, rinse & repeat. Assuming that this change drives SP farming margins to 0, its still worth doing to provide near unlimited Omega alts after the sunk cost for things like PI, Skiff miners, cyno, AFK cloakys - whatever you want
yeah
only real barrier is making one of the alphas on the account wasted sitting in jita for maximum laziness in skillgoop extraction |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:07:38 -
[654] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone! How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand? EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors. holy **** you're dumb you can fill up way more than one extractor per plex cycle
Holy **** you're dumb.
Note he wrote injectors.
And he is slightly incorrect. If you fill up 3 injectors worth of SP you make about as much as a PLEX costs.
The prices of extractors, injectors were speculated to end up close to the cost of a PLEX...and look it is.
So if you are going to create 100 "skillgoop bastards" (which is not free as there is opportunity costs; if setting up 100 accounts is your idea of time well spent...you're pretty pathetic) you'll rarely sub them and log them in and if you did, by the time you are done skilling any profit you might have obtained could very well vanish.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:14:24 -
[655] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Holy **** you're dumb.
Note he wrote injectors.
And he is slightly incorrect. If you fill up 3 injectors worth of SP you make about as much as a PLEX costs.
The prices of extractors, injectors were speculated to end up close to the cost of a PLEX...and look it is.
So if you are going to create 100 "skillgoop bastards" (which is not free as there is opportunity costs; if setting up 100 accounts is your idea of time well spent...you're pretty pathetic) you'll rarely sub them and log them in and if you did, by the time you are done skilling any profit you might have obtained could very well vanish.
thinking, reading, and math are all not really your strong suit as you have embarrassed yourself on all three here
|
Ikshuki
Trump Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:14:43 -
[656] - Quote
I am now in a crossroad, after playing this amazing game i ever played for 9 years, i'm now wondering if i should unsub for good, this F2P system will destroy the playerbase and all initiative to keep subbed, the whole point of having plex is to play for free, why do we need a F2P model on top of an already existing F2P model, all one has to to do now to keep playing is to create 10 F2P accounts, get them in barges, buy up skill injectors using subbed accounts to counter the skilling slowdown, and farm isk to buy plex, this system will ultimately ruin eve as a whole, this really saddens me CCP, and this disappoints me |
Ikshuki
Trump Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:17:48 -
[657] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:My $0.02: By and large, I think this is a good idea from CCP and it's one I hope will be accompanied by an advertising blitz to draw in new players.
I'll be interested to see what, if any, multiple log-in restrictions are implemented.
A few points: 1: Alphas should not be able to use Cloaks nor light Cynosural Fields. Cloaks are great. Cynos are great. Free disposable alts with cloaks and cynos? Please think very carefully about that one.
2: Think very carefully about allowing Alphas to fly the Venture. My first thought when reading about this was: Sweet, I can stash a 20 Alpha Account Venture fleet in my Wormhole to crack any Ore anomalies that turn up. I'll do it too, unless there's some mechanical reason preventing me. I have a rather grunty PC. If I go into potato mode, I daresay I could fairly easily run those 20 accounts. I also daresay I won't be the only one. what's to say some won't do it with 50+ accounts?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:19:57 -
[658] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Holy **** you're dumb.
Note he wrote injectors.
And he is slightly incorrect. If you fill up 3 injectors worth of SP you make about as much as a PLEX costs.
The prices of extractors, injectors were speculated to end up close to the cost of a PLEX...and look it is.
So if you are going to create 100 "skillgoop bastards" (which is not free as there is opportunity costs; if setting up 100 accounts is your idea of time well spent...you're pretty pathetic) you'll rarely sub them and log them in and if you did, by the time you are done skilling any profit you might have obtained could very well vanish.
thinking, reading, and math are all not really your strong suit as you have embarrassed yourself on all three here
Yeah, exactly where is the error?
BTW, look at what you wrote:
Skill Injectors are going to crash!
But....skill injectors will be profitable enough for you to log in.
Which one is it?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
loon Mabebu
New Found Prospects Manifesto.
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:20:42 -
[659] - Quote
I like the concept of free to play eve. How ever i to have some concerns. Being as i have only ready through 4 pages i may have missed if someone else has already posted this.
I personally would like to see alpha's be completely locked out of Industry all together. By allowing them to do industry they can in high sec afk mine to their hearts content. This will have a large effect on the mineral costs. It will in deed make it so that most mining will be done by ftp accounts. So those that are currently using that as a way to make money in eve will loose out quite a bit.
If you don't wish to make them locked out from it then perhaps make more of the asteroids require deep core mining.
I would recommend limiting ftp accounts to 2 per computer. This allows for basic dual boxing. How ever subbed accounts should not be counted against this measure.
I would also say remove 90% of trading skills (talking about the ones that are already on the list). Again inflation is going to be huge if they are able to do buy and sell orders. Why yet again all they will have to do is sit in station and buy and sell. That is all they will do. It doesn't really contribute to the system. That or else as screwy as it sounds have ftp run on their own economic system.
I like that you currently have them training up just like every other person in eve. How ever i would like to say that free accounts should train at a much slower pace than a subbed account. I know implants can speed up the process but i think that free accounts should start with a higher modifier to there skill training. This make people who are actually subbed from the start already feel the difference. Otherwise why would anyone want to sub right off the bat now.
I also do support the idea that an alpha account should in high sec have there safety locked at green. How ever that may interfere with wars. (not quite sure of the mechanics of it. Can you attack a war target while still green?)
Chat is another piece that i have encountered with ptp games that have gone ftp. I think that the devs should look very closely at how chat systems will work. There are going to be an over abundance of crap put out.
Over all i do not like the idea of a ftp eve account. It is not something i support. I have seen many games be ruined by going to a ftp besides a ptp. While in truth the games did come back they where not necessarily the better for it. My over all opinion is be careful the lines you tread with this. It will open up things that will not do any good for the game if not done/ monitored correctly.
Until then my fellow capsulers fly safe. |
Taxtro Grave
Phantom Squad The Blood Covenant
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:21:28 -
[660] - Quote
Great idea.
I've tried so many times to get my friends to join over the decade of me playing. Every single time the only reason they would not, is because my friends would rather go buy a 20 sack than pay to play.
This will get them the exposure and make them want to play for real.
As long their 'clone state' is fairly limited (think long ago where seeing a battleship was like seeing a unicorn irl), I'm all for it. |
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:21:30 -
[661] - Quote
Ikshuki wrote:Mephiztopheleze wrote:My $0.02: By and large, I think this is a good idea from CCP and it's one I hope will be accompanied by an advertising blitz to draw in new players.
I'll be interested to see what, if any, multiple log-in restrictions are implemented.
A few points: 1: Alphas should not be able to use Cloaks nor light Cynosural Fields. Cloaks are great. Cynos are great. Free disposable alts with cloaks and cynos? Please think very carefully about that one.
2: Think very carefully about allowing Alphas to fly the Venture. My first thought when reading about this was: Sweet, I can stash a 20 Alpha Account Venture fleet in my Wormhole to crack any Ore anomalies that turn up. I'll do it too, unless there's some mechanical reason preventing me. I have a rather grunty PC. If I go into potato mode, I daresay I could fairly easily run those 20 accounts. I also daresay I won't be the only one. what's to say some won't do it with 50+ accounts?
They got kicked out of their parent's basement, that's what is stopping them.
I know! Lets take the most extreme examples and pretend they'll be the norm.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Maxwell Hisscock
Bound And Determined Mordus Angels
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:22:07 -
[662] - Quote
This Dev blog tells me two things. 1. the CSM never really had any input or was taken seriously. 2. Despite this games history of unwanted/needed mass change on to the player base means nothing. CCP staff would rather give away the game for free than admit to a series of mistakes that has cost them roughly half of their customer base over the years. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:22:35 -
[663] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Yeah, exactly where is the error?
BTW, look at what you wrote:
Skill Injectors are going to crash!
But....skill injectors will be profitable enough for you to log in.
Which one is it?
i will give you the easiest and most obvious one that you should have been able to figure out to whet your appetite for knowledge and self improvement: you get more than 3 injectors per plex |
Kusum Fawn
Perkone Caldari State
559
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:22:56 -
[664] - Quote
Alpha venture fleets to blot out the sun.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Ikshuki
Trump Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:24:53 -
[665] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Alpha venture fleets to blot out the sun. well said, mass market deflation incoming
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3555
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:29:03 -
[666] - Quote
Even if this is limited to 1 per player at any time, this is going to massively increase the number of disposable ganker alts people can use, as well as massively increase how profitable they are. Don't wait till it's shown to be a serious issue to act, lock alpha accounts to green safety.
The use of venture mining alts is also a similar concern, again even if limited to 1 per person, it's utterly free income which doesn't need a minimum level of effort to make a profit per month.
(This is assuming you are committed to this plan, which personally is a huge mistake trying to appeal to the F2P market, and is going to turn your core customer base away more than anything else you've tried so far, using this simply to try and pad your online numbers is a terrible plan, you are using bad KPI's to assess your success, use the activity metrics such as destruction, not log in numbers who often do nothing useful). |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:30:07 -
[667] - Quote
it occurs to me that freighters are another ideal thing for this (well, besides that they will now die en masse)
you train up your npc freighter alt, fit bulkheads on it, and then let it go alpha
you lose the ship bonuses but whatever, you can still use bulkheads and as long as you're still in the hull you can fly for free |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
606
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:31:35 -
[668] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:it occurs to me that freighters are another ideal thing for this (well, besides that they will now die en masse)
you train up your npc freighter alt, fit bulkheads on it, and then let it go alpha
you lose the ship bonuses but whatever, you can still use bulkheads and as long as you're still in the hull you can fly for free But once you dock you can never undock.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:36:02 -
[669] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Yeah, exactly where is the error?
BTW, look at what you wrote:
Skill Injectors are going to crash!
But....skill injectors will be profitable enough for you to log in.
Which one is it?
i will give you the easiest and most obvious one that you should have been able to figure out to whet your appetite for knowledge and self improvement: you get more than 3 injectors per plex
Really? How do you accomplish this magic?
8,760 hours in a year (non-leap year). 8,760/12 = 730 hours for your "average" month.
To get 4 extractors you will have to skill at about 2,740 SP/hour.
Implants? Well, the theoretical max there is 2,700/hour.
You are just short of covering your average monthly sub costs for the second month.
Further, your argument is basically a market timing argument. You'll be able to tell when selling skill injectors is going to be profitable 30 or so days in advance.
In the end, all you'll end up doing is covering your sub costs more or less once you incur that initial $1,495 cost (possibly $2,990) to start the subs.
Edit: And I don't recall the requirements for attribute enhancing implants, can those be trained on an Alpha account? If not, then you'll definitely spend nearly $3,000 on this scheme.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:37:26 -
[670] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:it occurs to me that freighters are another ideal thing for this (well, besides that they will now die en masse)
you train up your npc freighter alt, fit bulkheads on it, and then let it go alpha
you lose the ship bonuses but whatever, you can still use bulkheads and as long as you're still in the hull you can fly for free
You can't fly the freighter once that happens.
Or maybe you should start calling people dumb fucks.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
|
Magothys
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:41:33 -
[671] - Quote
I'm agreed on the "one alpha per player" suggestion, too much potential for zerging otherwise.
Possible abuse off the top of my head: Step 1: Create X number of accounts and give them 5.5 million SP in skills unrelated to alpha set. Step 2: Switch to alpha mode, training all alpha skills to max, while researching BPO's. Step 3: When alpha skills are maxed, PLEX account and use 10 skill extractors on alpha skills. Step 4: Give skill injectors to main and either use or sell them. Step 5: Repeat from Step 2. |
Andreza Tq Totf
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:43:33 -
[672] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:So many teaaaaaarsss! Seriously people stop your doomsday scenarios please. This will be the biggest boost to EVE's player base in the last 13 years. Solution to suicide ganking: Either allow only a single Alpha account per IP address or restrict their security to yellow. Problem solved. Would you people please read before you cry wolf? They said that a lot of it is still up for tweaking and the skill list can change. Instead of b*tching, help to improve the idea.
Exactly. Think of all the noobs/Alphas as new sources of tears. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:47:03 -
[673] - Quote
Magothys wrote:I'm agreed on the "one alpha per player" suggestion, too much potential for zerging otherwise.
Possible abuse off the top of my head: Step 1: Create X number of accounts and give them 5.5 million SP in skills unrelated to alpha set. Step 2: Switch to alpha mode, training all alpha skills to max, while researching BPO's. Step 3: When alpha skills are maxed, PLEX account and use 10 skill extractors on alpha skills. Step 4: Give skill injectors to main and either use or sell them. Step 5: Repeat from Step 2.
Right now the plan is you cannot extract the alpha skills.
So, as currently proposed, this will not work.
Quote:Q: Can Alpha clones inject and extract skills?
A: You can Inject skills regardless of your clone state. Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Ikshuki
Trump Enterprises
25
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:48:03 -
[674] - Quote
Magothys wrote:I'm agreed on the "one alpha per player" suggestion, too much potential for zerging otherwise.
Possible abuse off the top of my head: Step 1: Create X number of accounts and give them 5.5 million SP in skills unrelated to alpha set. Step 2: Switch to alpha mode, training all alpha skills to max, while researching BPO's. Step 3: When alpha skills are maxed, PLEX account and use 10 skill extractors on alpha skills. Step 4: Give skill injectors to main and either use or sell them. Step 5: Repeat from Step 2. and that's the bottom line, i also see server crashes as too many players or multiboxers will overwhelm the systems, which is why they'll abonon this dumb idea, i have no issues with a D2P model, but in order for eve to have one would require ccp of limiting 1 account to be allowed to be open at 1 time at the launch and not allow multiple eve windows to be open at once, the ultimate solution
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
670
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:50:32 -
[675] - Quote
Well then. That's certainly something.
I'm going to voice what is apparently an unpopular opinion. I think this extended, indefinite trial needs a few more restrictions, then it'll be a good feature. I think a lot of people should calm down, think about it, and try to keep an open mind.
After reading the first 15 pages of this thread, I sent a message to a friend of mine. I tried to get him on EvE about four years ago, but it didn't take. 14-day trial is nice and all, but at the time had a full-time job, a fiance^ (no I don't know how to make the special character there), and everyday family obligations. So, during his 14-day trial, he got to play around two or three of those days, and each time, for only about two to three hours each. Heck, his first day alone was completely taken up by learning how to interact with the game, me helping him adjust overview settings, etc etc. He never really had time to really lock into the game. He never subbed, but it wasn't that he didn't like EvE. He just didn't have enough time to figure it out. He also expressed a viewpoint that he would probably only play the game when I was also online to play with him, which only happens about once a week.
So, I sent him a message. I told him about this, and that in November, I hope he'll choose to fly with me in EvE again. And I expressed my hopes that with this indefinite trial, he'll have time to really learn the game, enjoy it, maybe even start to subscribe himself. And maybe, even enjoy it enough to play without me. I don't do much in this game, I admit, I really hope he eventually wanders off on his own to experience all the things I don't.
I also thought about all the things I can do with an Alpha alt that I would never have paid an extra sub for. Not all of them are as nefarious as people have theorized. I've had an interest in trying out Faction Warfare - for the fighting, not the LP farming. But I have only one combat character who is already in a corp and has obligations. So, this is something I'd like to "dip my toes in" with an alt. I can certainly fund that alt's supply of cheap frigates and fittings. And it'll allow me to experience more of the game that I've been unable to commit to.
Another thing I want to be able to do is merely scout ahead. Having an Alpha alt, requiring no subscription payment for the luxury of doing so, to scout ahead a few jumps ahead of any major movement of mine. Also, to check out gates. Yes, I can and have been doing this with my "Omega" characters, but even if the gates and routes are clear, it's a big pain in the rear to land somewhere, shuttle up, fly a few jumps ahead, fly back, repackage shuttle, reship, continue on. Now I can scout for myself much more effectively and quickly.
This also opens the door to freighter pilots who have oft taken to the forums to complain about their lack of options for keeping their ships safe. And through the years, gankers have always told them to just web themselves into warp. The pushback against that was 1: no friends willing to donate time, 2: friends not trustworthy in regards to possibly tipping off ganker groups or secretly being a part of one themselves, 3: not willing to pay for an alt to do it. Now, freighter pilots can take ten minutes to create themselves an Alpha alt to web themselves.
Theoretically, this means that CCP can also revert the bumping timer thing they did a few patches ago, since there's no excuse left to not web themselves into warp. Heck, *I* might even buy a freighter now. I certainly have plenty of stuff to move and years of paying attention to the forums and game have given me a pretty decent idea on how to keep myself as safe as possible. Now it's easier than ever.
I think there are many legitimate concerns over this system that will have to be addressed. Most of those relate to industry and trade. But no alliance is going to be able to create a swarm of alpha alts to harass blues, because 600 guys will not be able to keep their mouths shut. Besides, spies and all. I don't think swarms of gankers will be any real problem either, other than perhaps a spike at the beginning of this due to the novelty of it for those trying for the first time. Also, have YOU ever tried herding cats? It's just not going to be the big deal people think it is. Anyone who's wanted to gank already has such a character anyway that can put out much more damage thanks to better skills.
Overall I think this has immense potential for everyone to expand their experiences and enjoyment of this game, newbie and veteran alike. I am, for the time being, cautiously optimistic.
Apparently I just don't do short posts
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:51:17 -
[676] - Quote
Ikshuki wrote:Magothys wrote:I'm agreed on the "one alpha per player" suggestion, too much potential for zerging otherwise.
Possible abuse off the top of my head: Step 1: Create X number of accounts and give them 5.5 million SP in skills unrelated to alpha set. Step 2: Switch to alpha mode, training all alpha skills to max, while researching BPO's. Step 3: When alpha skills are maxed, PLEX account and use 10 skill extractors on alpha skills. Step 4: Give skill injectors to main and either use or sell them. Step 5: Repeat from Step 2. and that's the bottom line, i also see server crashes as too many players or multiboxers will overwhelm the systems, which is why they'll abonon this dumb idea, i have no issues with a D2P model, but in order for eve to have one would require ccp of limiting 1 account to be allowed to be open at 1 time at the launch and not allow multiple eve windows to be open at once, the ultimate solution
No, he's wrong.
Quote:Q: Can Alpha clones inject and extract skills?
A: You can Inject skills regardless of your clone state. Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set.
Unless CCP goes in the opposite direction, that plan won't work.
And...just curious...how many people do people think this will bring in? Do you really think we are going to see huge numbers off this?
Have you guys gone to Eve Offline?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
beakerax
Pator Tech School
302
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:53:21 -
[677] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:i will give you the easiest and most obvious one that you should have been able to figure out to whet your appetite for knowledge and self improvement: you get more than 3 injectors per plex Really? How do you accomplish this magic? are you for real |
Magothys
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:54:46 -
[678] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Magothys wrote:I'm agreed on the "one alpha per player" suggestion, too much potential for zerging otherwise.
Possible abuse off the top of my head: Step 1: Create X number of accounts and give them 5.5 million SP in skills unrelated to alpha set. Step 2: Switch to alpha mode, training all alpha skills to max, while researching BPO's. Step 3: When alpha skills are maxed, PLEX account and use 10 skill extractors on alpha skills. Step 4: Give skill injectors to main and either use or sell them. Step 5: Repeat from Step 2. Right now the plan is you cannot extract the alpha skills. So, as currently proposed, this will not work. Quote:Q: Can Alpha clones inject and extract skills?
A: You can Inject skills regardless of your clone state. Currently, we are planning to require Omega state for skill extraction and also not allow the extraction of skills in the Alpha set.
You cannot extract skills with an "Alpha" clone. That's why Step 3 said to PLEX the account to change it back to Omega; it's still a net gain. |
Knitram Relik
Atomic Amish
61
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:56:08 -
[679] - Quote
My suggestions for changes from what's been outlined so far:
1. Alpha come skills can be extracted, but only if in omega state. The reason being is this. I've bought characters on the bazaar to turn into SP farms and production alts. As the production skills I inject grow, I extract all those needless spaceship command, gunnery, etc. skills.
2. Only one alpha clone can be logged in per IP address to prevent lots of free gank alts.
[WTS] - Signature. 500 mil ISK
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1128
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:58:09 -
[680] - Quote
Brown Pathfinder wrote:This is a huge change to eve wich might help get new players in wich is a good thing! My personal monkey with this is as a wormhole explorer player that in periods live in the deepest space that you want to remove my ability to have cloak and pirate and t2 ships, so if i would be inactive for a while and come back in my stratios or anathema or legion and I would be in wh-space I would have to self destruct since i cant cloak while in a cov op ship Not at all. You pay subscription with money or plex - You can fly what you did previously.
If you want to play for free - You can't use your Strat. Simple really, isn't it?
-- - -- - -- - -- My only real question / concern is; What is my character sheet gong to be like to navigate with the hundreds of new / renamed / expanded skills you are adding.
Or will Alpha clones have a completely different character sheet layout, so those with Omega clones aren't forced to view all the new / changed skills?
Adding several hundred skills to the character sheet seems a little bad.
Suggestion - Alpha clones are only able to view skills they can train (by faction) - Omega clones don't see all the new revised skills (or at least make it selectable)
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Fyrwind Aulmais
Podlins R Us Initiative Mercenaries
0
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:00:10 -
[681] - Quote
Only been playing 18 months... Got bitten by the PI bug and started a second account about 4 months ago... only plexed it LOL.
Some ideas for exploits that can be watched. 1) Use alpha to get an account to 5 million sp ( whatever max is) ... then Omega it and use SP extractors and selling to keep it plexed... or to speed up main account if can be done efficiently enough.
2) SOV space ( or anywhere) .. Intel would be good... park an alpha in every station with local open you want to be able to watch.. hm... tactical spymaster maybe... either to watch given routes for safe freighting or say for capital ratting but keeping an eye on surrounding sytems... could be copying BPO or doing industry for free isk if worth it LOL
3) an alpha salvager to follow my Omega around when ratting efficiently... or several... or running 4 or 5 accounts to clean u in anoms after corp has done them... hard to scan down.. low effort while salvagers get the job done so can flick around freely.
4) a) alpha industrial ( Gallente) everyone should be can mining with this alt shipping ore out.... so Procurer mine rather than risk others because ore hold limitations don't mean anything anymore.. b) rat killer alpha to protect main miner ( in 0.8 or 0.7 sec maybe...vexor could do it.. drones set to guard miner) c) multiple Vexor ratters in null.... bring in omega VNI but have several vexors orbit a LONG way out with drones assigned to.. guarding... VNI... extra 20 medium drones would be useful :-)
5) fleet battles.... suicide ships going in just to provide cover for bombers... like in flocks of birds... easy to kill but can't target all at once... could be good against carriers to chew up their missiles on fighters by forcing them to use them faster/earlier... maybe.
6) In theory .. could be a real pain... a fleet of free Venture miners chewing rock and can mining... hard to warp scramble and with fleet warp may be hard to kill ... not really efficient but if it can be maxed somehow it will...
7) POS / Structure killing... they don't add a lot of DPS but rather than the hassle of a fleet... a bunch of Alphas could work if the Omega was decent. can I trade mark "Super BLob" .. 3 or 4 people with multiple alts hammering timers... hmm
Only thinking quickly but thats where I would see most advantages or possible hassles... and probably industry but not really expert enough to see all angles there.
hope it helps people have a think of more that could be manipulated before it comes in
Cheers |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
330
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:04:26 -
[682] - Quote
I love how half this thread as literally been people thinking of ways to exploit alpha clones.
Ill throw my hat in that ring...
"An Army" of One by Roenok Baalnorn
Main PC: The Omega
1) Sebo heavy tackle. Pretty much all tackle and tank. 2) My shield tanked DPS ship. 3 ) Neutral hauler sitting on undock Notebook 1: The Alpha Alpha
(4) four - Osprey. 1 RR for the buddy and 1 for my tackle, 2 for my blingy DPS ship. 50 dps in drones each assigned to my DPS ship.
Notebook 2: The Alpha Beta
(4) Four- Vexors. Drones assigned to my DPS ship. Rest tank. About 250 DPS each.
1200 DPS plus tackle and DPS ship DPS so about 2400 DPS. Reppers on a tanked ship 900-1200 DPS tank plus buffer plus any booster i may fit on it for a local tank( XL ancillary im thinking)
Dont wardec half of eve... wardec ALL of eve. Sit on jita undock and literally just shoot um as they try to undock in the lag fest of 300 ships trying to undock at the same time. Let my neut collect wrecks and just keep filling his hanger full of loot. End of the day put all the loot back on the market to sell it back to the same people i just took it from.
Welcome to Alpha and Omega Eve: The Beginning and The End.
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Bowbndr
New Eden Development Corp Warped Intentions
13
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:06:15 -
[683] - Quote
While I donGÇÖt think that this latest round of changes will be the GÇ£finalGÇ¥ nail in CCPGÇÖs coffin, I do wonder how much longer this game can survive the dumbing down of a game that, when I first started playing back in 2010, was designed to be challenging. Those that couldnGÇÖt make the cut went and played WOW or some other game.
Personally I think CCP should take a serious look at Why the seam to be in this downward spiral. Back in 2010 when I started playing I remember seeing 50k players logged in and thinking GÇ£wow I have to learn thisGÇ¥ now 30k players is extraordinary. CCP has continues this spiral from a thinkers game to a pay to win pvp only game. When they get there the minds that made this game great will all be gone and EVE will be left to go the ways of games like Conquer and similar games.
Maybe they should look at what kept people logging in back when they had 50k players logged in most of the time and the spikes could climb to 75 to 100k players logged in instead of tiring to GÇ£gimmickGÇ¥ there way it keeping a dwindling player base from leaving the game all together.
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Ikshuki
Trump Enterprises
25
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 01:13:09 -
[684] - Quote
Bowbndr wrote:While I donGÇÖt think that this latest round of changes will be the GÇ£finalGÇ¥ nail in CCPGÇÖs coffin, I do wonder how much longer this game can survive the dumbing down of a game that, when I first started playing back in 2010, was designed to be challenging. Those that couldnGÇÖt make the cut went and played WOW or some other game.
Personally I think CCP should take a serious look at Why the seam to be in this downward spiral. Back in 2010 when I started playing I remember seeing 50k players logged in and thinking GÇ£wow I have to learn thisGÇ¥ now 30k players is extraordinary. CCP has continues this spiral from a thinkers game to a pay to win pvp only game. When they get there the minds that made this game great will all be gone and EVE will be left to go the ways of games like Conquer and similar games.
Maybe they should look at what kept people logging in back when they had 50k players logged in most of the time and the spikes could climb to 75 to 100k players logged in instead of tiring to GÇ£gimmickGÇ¥ there way it keeping a dwindling player base from leaving the game all together.
exactly, i remember when pvp was such a hot thing to do in 0.0, you were considered a loser if you stayed in high sec, i also remember when in the summer time the servers would peak at 64,000 online and systems would start crashing back when 500 man pvp fights was regular, but now days be lucky to see a 50 man fight, fact of the matter is, everything changed during incarna, when everyone rage quit eve during incarna it left a void that allowed WoW type player or lazy browser game players to fill in those gaps, and because of the sudden change in the playerbase demographic, eve has been in decline ever since, there is literally no reversing eve back to the glory days at this point i'm afraid
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
924
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:14:10 -
[685] - Quote
Ikshuki wrote:what's to say some won't do it with 50+ accounts?
If my PC and net connection can handle 50 accounts, then I'll run 50 Alpha Ventures. Honestly, my (very shoddy) net connection is going to be the ultimate limiting factor on how many accounts I can run simultaneously.
Kusum Fawn wrote:Alpha venture fleets to blot out the sun.
Yup. Without some kind of multiple Alpha log-in restrictions, expect to see thousands of the little bastards.
edit: I still think CCP is onto a winner with this idea, it just needs some minor tweaking is all.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
628
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:25:42 -
[686] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote: i will give you the easiest and most obvious one that you should have been able to figure out to whet your appetite for knowledge and self improvement: you get more than 3 injectors per plex
Really? How do you accomplish this magic? 8,760 hours in a year (non-leap year). 8,760/12 = 730 hours for your "average" month. To get 4 extractors you will have to skill at about 2,740 SP/hour. Implants? Well, the theoretical max there is 2,700/hour. You are just short of covering your average monthly sub costs for the second month. Further, your argument is basically a market timing argument. You'll be able to tell when selling skill injectors is going to be profitable 30 or so days in advance. In the end, all you'll end up doing is covering your sub costs more or less once you incur that initial $1,495 cost (possibly $2,990) to start the subs. Edit: And I don't recall the requirements for attribute enhancing implants, can those be trained on an Alpha account? If not, then you'll definitely spend nearly $3,000 on this scheme. Teckos, you're taking each month as if it existed as an isolated island. They don't. You end up with a six-month cycle (if my memory serves me), where you get 3 extractions in the first month, followed by four extractions for the next five. It's somewhere around 3.85 extractions per month.
It's profitable right now by about 100 mil per month. Whether it stays that way is to be seen, as prices are quickly reaching an equilibrium.
For what it's worth, though, considering how closely the prices of Extractors, Injectors, and PLEX are tied to each other, I doubt we'll ever see it where you can't PLEX yourself via Extraction.
This is a rough estimated of the break-even points based on an 8-day extraction cycle for PLEX at various values. It's what I suspect Extractors and Injectors will be, at worst (that is, equilibrium with PLEX). I've been wrong before, though.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26734
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:28:30 -
[687] - Quote
What are CCP going to do if the expected increase in players logged turns out to short term?
Certainly some people quit over the subscription price and make that known in the why are you quitting questionnaire, but how many quit and leave no reason at all, how many of the those who don't comment quit because they don't like the idea of having to create their own content or can't deal with the basic premise of not being safe anywhere?
The reasons for Eve not having a larger subscriber base go far deeper than the cost of a sub, and tbh some of the development decisions made in the past have driven away many that CCP should have tried to retain; the present development direction may well do the same.
Personally I believe it to be a terrible idea on the scale of Incarna and a dipping of the toe into the stagnant waters of the "greed is good" leak of 2011.
*blames the EA hires and petitions for the return of CCP Soundwave *
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Hal Morsh
Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem
544
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:38:15 -
[688] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP?
Problem takes care of themselves?
Jenn aSide wrote:Alpha clones must NOT be able to light any form of cyno. If not, every single low and null system will have a cloaky alpha clone sitting in it.
I am not normally against cloaky campers (i advocate just dealing with them if they decloak), but FREE cloaky campers? Hell no, every cloaky camper that exists represents a sub or plex and the opportunity costs associated with that. FREE cloakys destroy that.
It would be like premium ammo and my T95 in world of tanks. I laughed when people shot money at me, then it became free with no nerf. the pain.. THE PAIN!!!!
Omar Alharazaad > Pretty much any time you blow something up in space it's bound to annoy someone or something.
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Charsara
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:39:55 -
[689] - Quote
Don't allow the Alpha clones into 0.0 and wormholes. Nullsec already has it's fair share of scrub alts parked around the map. Let them inhabit FW and lowsec if they want to pewpew. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1974
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 01:42:54 -
[690] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free Extraction farming seems doubtful unless PLEX crashes as well. If it doesn't then maintaining skillgoop accounts won't be a sustainable prospect without other isk income or incurring a real money cost.
And if people try that pushes PLEX prices up further away from making it workable. |
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
628
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:43:25 -
[691] - Quote
So, something I just noticed: Amarr and Gallente may train both Armor and Shield rigging, but Caldari and Minmatar are only able to train Shield Rigging. Any particular reason, or is that just an oversight?
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Raithius
Discrete Astrographic Reconnaissance Technologies
3
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:46:46 -
[692] - Quote
The amount of hisec ganking that is going to take place is going to be real.
Or what if a corp wants to declare war but decides to use alphas for meat shields.
Or established alliances using this to completely #$!$ hisec for the lolz with no risk to their mains.
This is actually INSANE. |
Bruce Destro
Stronghelm Corporation Solyaris Chtonium
15
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Posted - 2016.09.01 01:57:05 -
[693] - Quote
Disallowing skill extraction, cloaking cyno's and forcing safety of yellow or even green in highsec, with a limit of 3 alpha accounts (in addition to omega accounts) sounds pretty awesome. I will deffinitely have an army of venture pilots, making then each have an alt, and alts of my own to boost them. very much like this idea. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
364
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 01:59:25 -
[694] - Quote
I have to admit to some concerns around high sec, hopefully will get sorted by the devs. But for the most part for first thoughts about this change is..
NOM NOM
Think of all the noobs to either have fun with in supportive (eve uni etc) ways or to just kick to death....should make most of us happy.
Certainly logging into a server pop of +100k would be interesting. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1389
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 02:05:04 -
[695] - Quote
Maraner wrote:I have to admit to some concerns around high sec, hopefully will get sorted by the devs. But for the most part for first thoughts about this change is..
NOM NOM
Think of all the noobs to either have fun with in supportive (eve uni etc) ways or to just kick to death....should make most of us happy.
Certainly logging into a server pop of +100k would be interesting.
Yeay 100% tidi in all of New Eden
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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beakerax
Pator Tech School
302
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 02:14:02 -
[696] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Certainly some people quit over the subscription price and make that known in the why are you quitting questionnaire, but how many quit and leave no reason at all, how many of the those who don't comment quit because they don't like the idea of having to create their own content or can't deal with the basic premise of not being safe anywhere? How many people unsub intending to win Eve temporarily and never come back at all? Lowering the barrier for them to log in could be very good. |
Voxinian
103
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 02:20:49 -
[697] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Certainly some people quit over the subscription price and make that known in the why are you quitting questionnaire, but how many quit and leave no reason at all, how many of the those who don't comment quit because they don't like the idea of having to create their own content or can't deal with the basic premise of not being safe anywhere? How many people unsub intending to win Eve temporarily and never come back at all? Lowering the barrier for them to log in could be very good. For a large part it is about new players getting attached ot their ingame pixels in order to pay/work for a sub. The 5mil SP barrier is very good length to get attached to your ingame pixels an meanwhile get some understanding of the game mechanics and the unfurgiving nature of the game.
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1201
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 02:26:22 -
[698] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Yeah, exactly where is the error?
BTW, look at what you wrote:
Skill Injectors are going to crash!
But....skill injectors will be profitable enough for you to log in.
Which one is it?
i will give you the easiest and most obvious one that you should have been able to figure out to whet your appetite for knowledge and self improvement: you get more than 3 injectors per plex Really? How do you accomplish this magic? 8,760 hours in a year (non-leap year). 8,760/12 = 730 hours for your "average" month. To get 4 extractors you will have to skill at about 2,740 SP/hour. Implants? Well, the theoretical max there is 2,700/hour. You are just short of covering your average monthly sub costs for the second month. Further, your argument is basically a market timing argument. You'll be able to tell when selling skill injectors is going to be profitable 30 or so days in advance. In the end, all you'll end up doing is covering your sub costs more or less once you incur that initial $1,495 cost (possibly $2,990) to start the subs. Edit: And I don't recall the requirements for attribute enhancing implants, can those be trained on an Alpha account? If not, then you'll definitely spend nearly $3,000 on this scheme. i see one of the cleverer people in the thread pointed out to you fractions exist so i will now mock you for forgetting plex exist which is a new and hilarious dumbosity |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1201
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 02:27:10 -
[699] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:it occurs to me that freighters are another ideal thing for this (well, besides that they will now die en masse)
you train up your npc freighter alt, fit bulkheads on it, and then let it go alpha
you lose the ship bonuses but whatever, you can still use bulkheads and as long as you're still in the hull you can fly for free But once you dock you can never undock. you are quite right on this, i missed the undocking part the first read-through |
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
171
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 02:27:48 -
[700] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Greetings capsuleers! Today, we are happy to announce a new change thatGÇÖs coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client. In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a characterGÇÖs race. A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change.
Well done CCP its great that finally something had to be done to get more people involved into EvE online.
I agree what CCP is doing as I have said in my thread it was a concerning factor seen the numbers decline in EvE and CCP had to do something to get the numbers back up.
And this way introducing Alpha and Omega Clones into the game was going to be that option.
The F2P model you use the Alpha clone.
Or if you keep subscribing you stay in your Omega clone how simple is that.
BTW I know of people who would like to join eve and they told me that its a cost factor and they live in the Philippines and I will let them know that EvE will have a F2P model coming in November 2016.
Here is an example of the cost for me in AUD Vs USD $150.00 USD = 198.91AUD that is nearly $50.00 more for me for the yearly subs which I am happy to pay for.
Congratz CCP you have made my day
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
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Kusum Fawn
Perkone Caldari State
561
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Posted - 2016.09.01 02:28:06 -
[701] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:it occurs to me that freighters are another ideal thing for this (well, besides that they will now die en masse)
you train up your npc freighter alt, fit bulkheads on it, and then let it go alpha
you lose the ship bonuses but whatever, you can still use bulkheads and as long as you're still in the hull you can fly for free You can't fly the freighter once that happens. Or maybe you should start calling people dumb *****.
It does specifically say that if you dock you cant undock, but with pos you dont have to dock.
however that does ignore the whole gank catalyst spam that will happen. but for belt hauling orcas i dont see why that couldnt work.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1201
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 02:31:27 -
[702] - Quote
the other massive errors that teckos seems unable to grasp are that people already bastardfarm the **** out of skillgoop with 100+ but the start-up cost prevents there from being enough people doing it to really kill margins (though enough that they basically set the price), that it takes a surprisingly low amount of isk for this to be quite profitable per play-hour on an industrial scale, and that eve attracts precisely the sort of nutbars who take anything to its logical extreme
really it is amazing just how little he gets the finance side of the game, "eve is full of nutbars who will minmax the **** out of things even with tremendous effort" is, like, a foundational economic principle in eve most people figure out within a week |
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
24
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 02:35:33 -
[703] - Quote
Well I suppose this can be looked at in a positive light:
CCP has killed almost all the sacred cows - they opened a microtransaction shop, they are selling SP, and now they are going full on ftp. There is only one thing left of the former eve no-nos -opening up jove space. After this ftp lark fails, and ccp opens jove space, ccp will be out of gimicks. Their only hope will be to actually give us interesting and entertaining content or to turn off the lights. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
626
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 02:53:44 -
[704] - Quote
So I can finally cancel my last sub and stop supporting this nonsense and still stay connected? Awesome.
The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.
CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
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Sootsia
HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 03:02:26 -
[705] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Titus Tallang wrote:Multiple logins from Omega and Alpha accounts at the same time must be prohibited, and circumventing this must be a bannable offense.
Otherwise I (and I'm sure many others) will just start multiboxing 10 griffins (at a total cost of 2 million isk, so I don't even have to pay any real attention to those clients) in addition to my main in every single fight, and I'm not sure if that's really the gameplay you are looking for. Don't turn this into "who can micromanage the most accounts at the same time", please.
PS: Apart from that, I'm cautiously optimistic. Free multiboxing is my primary issue. Griffin are hard to multibox without automation. TRISTANS (and other drone ships, hell, any ship that can assign drones) are not. I agree, multiple log ins across clone state must be prohibited. nothing wrong with multi boxing, but if we can multibox with alphas I WILL be putting a whole bunch of new drone ships in null sec anoms. My Inflationary pressure will blot out the Sun over CCP Quant's office window.
I actually hope such as you do, the killmails of such ships will will be glorious as you cannot cloak, therefore can easlily be probed down and blapped. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26741
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 03:11:19 -
[706] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Certainly some people quit over the subscription price and make that known in the why are you quitting questionnaire, but how many quit and leave no reason at all, how many of the those who don't comment quit because they don't like the idea of having to create their own content or can't deal with the basic premise of not being safe anywhere? How many people unsub intending to win Eve temporarily and never come back at all? Lowering the barrier for them to log in could be very good. You missed the point I was making, there are many things that deter people from Eve, the sub model is only one of them, and probably the least of them given the brutal nature of the game.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
Neuronia deBuissy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 03:35:09 -
[707] - Quote
Interesting!
F2P will be nice to bring in new players, but ultimately the game may have poor retention because of its complexity. I created this account in 2012, played for about six months or so then moved on, not because it was too arduous (I love love love that skills train when offline) but just because I wasn't interested in doing Fleet stuff, I like to just zip around space and see things and explore and such.
Now, having been in a few F2P games (SWTOR the more recent one), some things need to happen:
1)Limit Local Chat or you'll see: "Buy from XYZ.COM quick delivery!" Likewise, no sending ISK in mail or limit mail sending altogether, to avoid people sending you 1 ISK then a spam message. 2)Limit account logins so people don't just make a ton of small ships and clog lanes. I'd be willing to bet that some group of yahoos will just make a ton of free ships and log them in to see if they can crash the server (possibly why they had that stress-test recently?) 3)Caps on ISK. This is a recurring theme in most MMO's, but basically allow enough ISK to fit T1 (maybe T2?) stuff on your basic ship, and do some repairs, but not much more than that. There has to be some incentive to paying for a Sub. Issue here is PLEX sells for a bunch, so you'd have to escrow the rest (more tech, yay!). 4)Content lockout: T4 missions? Wormhole space? Joining guilds? All things that need to be addressed, as I'm sure we don't want people to join a guild, rob them blind then move on. Then again, it is EVE...
Another approach I've seen is: "Buy X stuff and it counts to unlock features." This might not be palatable, but say you get some Aurum (4.99) buy a skin of some sort, great! Now you can use mail. You can still play and increase your content attribution without spending the full amount of a sub. Not sure how feasible this is...
Lastly, and this is reaaaaaaaaally out there, but "tethering" F2P to certain areas on logout might be a thing to consider. Maybe they get warped to their starting Faction area, maybe to the nearest docking bay, whatever. Just tso they don't camp gates. Or have CONCORD just terminate them if they do stuff, w/e.
Looking forward to the changes, the skill allowances seem fine overall, maybe a few tweaks.
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beakerax
Pator Tech School
302
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Posted - 2016.09.01 03:36:33 -
[708] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You missed the point I was making, there are many things that deter people from Eve, the sub model is only one of them, and probably the least of them given the brutal nature of the game. I didn't, but my own point was kind of opaque.
Obviously EVE is simply not the game for a lot of people, there is no chance of turning those people into long-term players. If this free-to-log-in scheme were meant to attract every possible player to EVE, it would fail.
But I think CCP knows that. The goal is instead to give new players who are the target demographic time to find their niche in a niche game, and I think allowing unsubbed accounts to log in and poke about might help control the attrition of older players as well. |
Arcturus Ursidae
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 03:38:08 -
[709] - Quote
My immediate reaction was quite negative and probably not postable.
Being a casual faction warfare player my immediate concern regarding free accounts with low skill tech 1 ships was around an increase in alt stabbed farming.
However the real problem here is faction warfare mechanics not the possibility of genuine new free account players.
Given this monumental change I really hope CCP can has something in its back pocket to throw to existing players in all spectra of eve. Re hashing links and a few new ship skins is not really an encouraging expansion to put out with an ambition to draw new players.
A few changes to faction warfare would be much appreciated. |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
44
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 03:50:31 -
[710] - Quote
On the subject of Gnosis, cutting down some quotes which were related in the context and had a conversation with each other before as well;
Quote:1) Keebler Wizard: Nah maybe you should learn to read. Gnosis is above cruiser first off. 2) Lady Ayeipsia: Gnosis is a Battle cruiser. The Dev blog said Alpha clones are limited to Cruiser down. There is no issue here. 3) Gogela: but it would be game breaking if Alpha accounts could fly them. Gnosis are Jove-related ships, and absolutely classified as faction. They are too versatile and powerful for free accounts, though. Ultimately I think it comes down to common sense. CCP said no faction ships. Is the Genosis a faction ship? Do YOU really think they will let Alphas fly the Genosis? 4) Kenrailae: Gnosis and Yacht's have never been tied from, nor excluded from any race. They're that grey area where 'yeah I'm a faction ship.... that can be flown by literally every character in the game, and have nothing really that special about me, without the skills to back it up.' Which they can't train. I don't see a problem with it, if a trial account can log in and get in the thing, why shouldn't a free account? 1) The problem is how Eve uses it's own terminology. By preview, it's a Combat Battlecruiser. By size and stats it's a battlecruiser. By skills, it isn't. Same thing with people calling a Freighter a capital ship, when it doesn't require the capital ship skill, yet uses capital ship components but has no restrictions of capital ships. So while you are technically correct on the "common sense" subject, you are also incorrect on the technical aspect.
2) But we don't know which path of definition CCP will follow in the area. The Gnosis is a special edition ship acquired from the 2nd Decade of Eve Special edition box, which is still available, but I don't think many people will put out 140+ dollars just to have their Alpha character fly a special ship which they'll inevitably lose. Coming from this point of view, CCP wants the stuff they sell to be used. From a marketing perspective, how stupid would it be to sell something to someone they can't even use up front? This is not a question of viability, but of inherent customer feeling and satisfaction right out of the gate.
3) Alpha Clones flying Gnosis is just a non-issue in terms of game balance as trials flying Gnosis is, since they are limited in their skills. They are not even remotely powerful if you look at the skill list again. So yes, I actually encourage Alphas to fly Gnosis. The more they blow up, the more rare a Gnosis will become as it is not a readily available ship.
4) This guy gets it. Hence he's quoted last. And to prove him right, as this has been questioned too: Yes, a Gnosis can be flown by Trial accounts today as they always could. Nothing to ponder about that.
"But Drazz, you idiot," I sense others typing feverishly into the keyboard now, "Trial accounts can fly up to battleship nowadays, they won't be able to do that later, your argument is invalid." It actually isn't. First, this was a recent change, and back then everyone could fly them. Second, reread what I wrote about special edition sales. I'm 99% certain the Gnosis will remain available for Alpha Clones, as they rightfully should. It's their fault if they get blown up with it, and the supply of these ships is very finite.
Dopenose Lameth wrote:My fear is that existing (paying) players will abuse this system by making a large number of free alts. Every fight will involve 20+ meta fitted Logi. In highsec one can expect suicide ganks happening a lot more. In low/null i expect to see 50man free2play caracal fleets being piloted by 1 person. Trying keep myself in check for a change... What gives you the impression of a player being able to field dozens of Alpha accounts? Can you field more than one trial? No. Will you be able to field more than one Alpha? Extremely unlikely. 99% no, if CCP knows what's good for them. Will people try to circumvent it and still try? Maybe, and then it will hail permabans. You can't mask everything, and if you keep violating the rules that way, data privacy can be lifted when a lawsuit is eligible. CCP can already monitor our hardware and software running to prevent this kind of tampering. While your fear about this issue is understandable, I'm sure it will be handled appropriately.
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Introduce permadeath. Podded Alphas are permanently gone. Remove the tech II ship and module restrictions. Up the skill cap. Experience New Eden as a human among immortals. One play for a quarter. Let's make EvE darker. you know, if CCP ever decides to make a secondary server called "Mortality" which functions the same as eve, only with permadeath, I would not be surprised to see a spike in subscription numbers again All jokes aside it won't happen. Which is good.
Charsara wrote:Don't allow the Alpha clones into 0.0 and wormholes. Nullsec already has it's fair share of scrub alts parked around the map. Let them inhabit FW and lowsec if they want to pewpew. Disagree. If you tease them with huge fights from the get-go and they get thrown into a paywall, that's suicidal reputation. You want to give them something to have the new flesh hooked. Bring them into nullsec with backup of the NPE friendly community, clash against nullsec inhabitants. See a supercap, get killed. Be hooked. You'd be surprised how often it works this way.
Soltys wrote:Instead of recurring make it automatic, for example: For each account that hasn't logged for 1 month or more, offer free Omega clone for say 2 days. Up to 7 days maxium. Or anything similar along those lines, with whatever granularity deemed sensible. Quoting for agreement with the general idea. Numbers are elastic. |
|
Mapster Tacitus
Kriegsmarinewerft Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 03:53:04 -
[711] - Quote
Why restrict it to one Faction ? See, the Dev Blog says you want an "exciting EVE experience for Alphas". So there will be many new Players joining the Alliances in New Eden and they want to fleet up with people. So if we do a Cerberus Fleet, we would say "Sure, as an Alpha, you can bring a Caracal instead". There will be all the Guys who choosed Gallente/Amarr/Minmatar because of Style or whatever and they bring a Thorax or something -.- They COULD bring the Caracal if they train another of their 3 Chars for Caldari but Training Basic Skills again, Applying to Corp and Starting all over again isnt a great experience . Its just an unnecessary detour. |
Polly Fera
Solar Pride MIDAS 22
54
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 03:55:59 -
[712] - Quote
the idea of the clones - **** |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56273
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:11:59 -
[713] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Looks like its time for Doc to follow Tippia and Mr. Garibaldi beyond the Rim. 2016 has been a helluva year for losing people, making bad decisions, and unintended consequences. The EA rot has become terminal. Especially comical are the following: CCP wrote: We have not decided... We donGÇÖt think clone states will have much impact... We donGÇÖt expect a significant increase in this kind of activity.. WeGÇÖve deliberately tried to limit this behavior..
Doc's personal favorite: CCP wrote: We are creating and implementing concrete plans to make sure we can provide the same level of support for all of our players
CCP, you can barely provide acceptable levels of customer support now. The kinds of players you are trying to attract won't put up with what you consider adequate, and they won't accept your usual platitudes.
I can't believe I'm gonna say this but I agree wholeheartedly 100%.
Hell, I may even join you guys and book passage on that night train myself.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
352
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:19:07 -
[714] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Just curious - the punishment for botting is banning - but now its free to make accounts - so ccp would have to ban the ip. But I think (I may be wrong) that you can manipulate your ip address if you want. So CCP just effectively threw in the towel on botting - a botter gets banned - he just keeps making new accounts - since there is no cost or punishment to him there is no disincentive to botting.
There is other ways of "fingerprinting" a particular physical machine.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Arry Ghekon
NerdHerd The Explicit Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:22:09 -
[715] - Quote
I couldn't resist posting in what is sure to be a historic thread. |
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
110
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:23:02 -
[716] - Quote
I am actually hoping this works.
I told an active gamer that uses game consoles that EVE would have a free access for them and they are aware I have played for years and then they said they'd "have to fire up their computer. A positive response.
Please CCP don't screw this up like you did with DUST514. |
Silven Rubis
Gemini Talon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:24:15 -
[717] - Quote
Nice move CCP, the Idea is good and hope will reward us all - you guys in attracting more people to the game and us players in getting more population as well ;-)+1 |
Arry Ghekon
NerdHerd The Explicit Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:27:37 -
[718] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:There is other ways of "fingerprinting" a particular physical machine.
True, but once people figure out what they're using, you can work around it. VMs of course are the obvious answer. Perhaps even containerization could be done at a much lower resource cost. I'll have to set up a Windows Server 2016 w/ Docker(whenever they get around to finally releasing a non-RC, final version) instance in AWS and see if each client can be made completely discrete from each other.
Also, things like MACs, UUIDs, and SIDs can be spoofed or changed. Whether it is "worth" it will depend on how long it takes for the offender's accounts to get banned. If it takes 1 month, hey, it's probably worth the overhead to them. If it takes 2 hours, probably not. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56273
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:34:49 -
[719] - Quote
Rapala Armiron wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP?
They are thinking that they are out of ideas. They tried attracting casuals by making eve a more friendly place and that didnt work. They tried dumbing down the game and that didnt work. They forgot what made eve good in the first place, abandoning their base in favor of chasing after wow players. Nothing has worked. They are at the end of the rope. So like all mmo dev's who are out of ideas they throw in the towel and go ftp. Ofc this wont work. FTP attracts casuals - but eve is built around hardcore players - the casuals will spike eve's player count in the short term - but it wont last. It never does. The casuals being casuals they will fade away. A year from now eve will be in a worse place then it is today. Free to play is the death knell for games. What I dont understand is why they feel they will be different then every other mmo that went ftp as a last desperate move before going belly up? This model doesnt even make sense - ftp is built around whales - this model ignores whales and micro transactions and instead its built around making the gaming experience inconvenient for its alphas e.g. they cant do this and they cant do that without purchasing a full account. But how are they going to convince casuals that what they are missing out on is so much better then what they are getting for free that it is worth spending 15$ a month for? Casuals already could try out the game on a trial account - if that trial account wasnt enough to convince a causal to subscribe how is giving them a permanent trial account for ever going to change that? CCP continues to burn its bridges to its core players. When this doesnt work will there be any going back? Well it was a good run. Very well said and I agree 100%.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56273
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:40:50 -
[720] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:New Skill window - bad, vertical labels are BAD. Big empty spaces, rigid formatting, too big and not scalable as it seems, queue completely non visible.
Leave skill window as it is now.
I suspect many holes will be in this design. Many throwaway alts for ganking will be trained simultanously no matter the design. Many multiboxers. No one of them being afraid of CCP retribution upon them. People playing to grief, and not afraid about them being banned for anything. I will wait and see how these old and new players with alpha accounts will contribute to general EVE experience.
No matter how you will call it, its free to play. The emperor has no clothes. They will play for free. Then they will complain about this ftp model being too restrictive and they will want everything for free on daily basis.
Good point about the new skill window. When I saw that I just thought to myself CCP definitely has no clue. Obviously Dev's are scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to come up with stuff to justify their employment.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
352
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:43:24 -
[721] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote: I would propose simply making the ships themselves require Alpha/Omega Status so players could still use a vexor or a caracal or an arbitrator if they chose Matari as their base race rather than sticking them in a faction they may no longer even fly. And at the same time as an Alpha i cant hop in a Cruor or whatever others i can fly without paying to access the ship like everyone in Omega status.
That is a good idea. I would emphasize that for the sake of clarity and less newbie confusion it might make sense to add a clear disclaimer into the ship and module info screens stating that "this module requires omega clone to function" or "this hull requires omega clone to fly".
And yes - all races should be usable. If the problem is 5 mil SP limit just make it so that skill extractors can not be used under whatever SP the final Alpha list will end up and/or exclude Alpha list skills from extractable skill list altogether.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5163
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:45:30 -
[722] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote: i will give you the easiest and most obvious one that you should have been able to figure out to whet your appetite for knowledge and self improvement: you get more than 3 injectors per plex
Really? How do you accomplish this magic? 8,760 hours in a year (non-leap year). 8,760/12 = 730 hours for your "average" month. To get 4 extractors you will have to skill at about 2,740 SP/hour. Implants? Well, the theoretical max there is 2,700/hour. You are just short of covering your average monthly sub costs for the second month. Further, your argument is basically a market timing argument. You'll be able to tell when selling skill injectors is going to be profitable 30 or so days in advance. In the end, all you'll end up doing is covering your sub costs more or less once you incur that initial $1,495 cost (possibly $2,990) to start the subs. Edit: And I don't recall the requirements for attribute enhancing implants, can those be trained on an Alpha account? If not, then you'll definitely spend nearly $3,000 on this scheme. Teckos, you're taking each month as if it existed as an isolated island. They don't. You end up with a six-month cycle (if my memory serves me), where you get 3 extractions in the first month, followed by four extractions for the next five. It's somewhere around 3.85 extractions per month. It's profitable right now by about 100 mil per month. Whether it stays that way is to be seen, as prices are quickly reaching an equilibrium. For what it's worth, though, considering how closely the prices of Extractors, Injectors, and PLEX are tied to each other, I doubt we'll ever see it where you can't PLEX yourself via Extraction. This is a rough estimated of the break-even points based on an 8-day extraction cycle for PLEX at various values. It's what I suspect Extractors and Injectors will be, at worst (that is, equilibrium with PLEX). I've been wrong before, though.
Yes, on average you can pay for your sub, but the problem with averages is that some months you won't and you'll shell out nearly $1500 to keep the game going.
Tell me which side of a 6 sided die has 3.5 on it?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56273
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:48:00 -
[723] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.
What are you thinking CCP? They're not thinking, they've obviously drank way too much electric koolaid.
Pah Cova wrote:Guess CCP are just tired from this game and wants to end it ASAP. CCP are not respecting playerbase and are not providing the needed assistance on the numerous bugs they created with this almost monthly updates and i-¦m not talking about the time the took to answer the tickets (about 3 weeks). As someone said a few post back, CCP SEAGUL have ruined this game, the decline starts when she assumed the executive direction of this game, I have nothing personally against her, but she-¦s not the right person to the charge, thats only my oppinion. Constant socket closed in each account from 10 to 10 minutes one at a time, capacitor not shown the ship cap, api-¦s not working all the time are just some examples of the bad work that CCP have done and it seems they are not going to be solved in a near future.
Now CCP wants to put more people on game playing in a freemode why? 55.000 players before CCP SEAGUL assumes this game, and 25.000/30.000 players after she assumes this game should mean something and lead CCP into some conclusions.
In other company-¦s the monthy incoming reduction for bad decisions are not take lightly, but thats in other company-¦s and it seems CCP dosent need the monthly income and dont want to be reckognize as a successfull gaming devoloper company.
100% correct. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I watched that little BS video of hers and I just couldn't believe the crap I was hearing. Especially the part about how most new players quit because of having to pay a subscription. What a bunch of crock.
Valterra Craven wrote:Wait, now I'm curious, if people are leaving Eve because they can't pay for it, what exactly is the purpose of wanting to keep people playing that have no money to give to you? Truth be told, main reason for loss of subscriptions is due to all of the griefer game mechanics allowed to happen in high sec space.
Hulk Miner wrote:It really does not matter what we say for feedback, this is going to be implemented as per your specifications. Nothing will change, same old. Definitely agree 100%, especially since this was already scheduled to be implemented before even consulting CSM or doing Beta testing on Singularity (Sisi).
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
44
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:50:26 -
[724] - Quote
Arry Ghekon wrote:I'll have to set up a Windows Server 2016 w/ Docker instance in AWS and see if each client can be made completely discrete from each other. Also, things like MACs, UUIDs, and SIDs can be spoofed or changed. Whether it is "worth" it will depend on how long it takes for the offender's accounts to get banned. If it takes 1 month, hey, it's probably worth the overhead to them. If it takes 2 hours, probably not. Bot banning has usually been fairly fast on CCP's end, at least to my personal experience. I cannot confirm or deny that other accounts being associated with the reported connection and computers will be permabanned as well. A possible weak point in VMs is their lack of hardware masking. Each individual component has a unique number at which the system identifies and operates with and I'm not sure how easy it is to fake those on each VM layer without glaring compatibility issues. This should give away most VMs easily.
Naturally, they won't catch all illegal Alpha-Multiboxers yet I would imagine they'd be catching most of them, who would likely be the ones with the most damaging effect. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56276
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 04:59:27 -
[725] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:Have you totally abandoned the "Upcoming Features and Changes" sub-forum??
Yeah, they did that a while ago when they started posting info on Reddit first.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Astrid Farnsworth
Broke and Famous
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:00:24 -
[726] - Quote
Sorry but my clone is in Alpha so i cant read all the post here.
"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) noted in 1980**strong text**
|
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1187
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:01:47 -
[727] - Quote
This here caught my eye when I read the devblog:
Quote:Questions about abuse:
Q: WonGÇÖt suicide ganking using free characters be a major problem?
A: We donGÇÖt think clone states will have much impact on suicide ganking or other harassment in high-sec. But, we will be paying very close attention and if this becomes an issue we can pursue options to improve the situation such as turning safetyGÇÖs on for Alphas in high sec or making changes to the allowed skills list.
After checking the terms of service, harassment of other players in the game is still not allowed. My guess is, this should rather have read "non consensual combat". Still I'd like to ask:
Are there any plans or discussions to re-evaluate suicide ganking or other forms of non consensual combat as harassment?
Remove insurance.
|
Dread Red
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:01:54 -
[728] - Quote
CCP here is an idea, how about Alpha account abilities being tied to the security status of the space they are flying in.
In null sec and Anoikis you can fly anything and use any module you've trained for, in low sec you can't do any industrial but can fly and use capital ships if you've trained for them, in high sec you can fly up to Battleship.
This way CCP you can continue to try and force populate Null sec like you've always dreamed of doing effectively supplying multiple lower skilled targets for the big alliances to plunder and conscript and have some of the largest battles imaginable.
Low sec will still function as the in between zone where players can sharpen combat skills. Perhaps the current gankers will be deterred when high sec Alpha alts of miners start ganking their scout bumping alts who try to scoop loot after gank kills.
Sell all your CODE stock before the November patch because those boys are going to get spanked like a high sec version of the goons. |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
264
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:04:12 -
[729] - Quote
We can only hope that all of these "GREAT IDEA CCP GIVE US MORE PLAYERS!!!!11" are just dumbasses and not CCP's sockpuppets.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56277
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:08:59 -
[730] - Quote
Jason Ozran wrote:RIP Eve Online. After destroying the game for those that have been playing it for years and playing for it, and realizing it doesn't work for ****, they decided to go for a hybrid free-to-play.
You just look at the wrong side of this issue: Eve is complicated. It is ******* complicated. And that's why pay for it! Because it is deep, interesting, and a stupid game like there are so many on the market. Thank you for making this a game like many others, CCP. You finally ruined it. Gotta say with a sad heart I agree with you.
In the past it's been repeatedly said that Goons would kill Eve. Obviously to accomplish that goal they had to first become employed by CCP.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
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Cougaro
Solar Vista. The Anubis Accord
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:09:36 -
[731] - Quote
Well, I don't troll the forums very much, just read what's going on from time to time. Like every other player in Eve, my voice is just one of many and may or may not count. However, since going FTP is going to happen (no way they'll cancel it after announcing it) I'll add my little opinions as well.
1. Limit logins as they are with trials now. No Alpha and Omega logged in at the same time on the same IP address. 2. Set safeties to green in highsec for Alphas to prevent a huge increase of highsec ganking. For that matter, you can set ALL safeties to green or yellow while in highsec (gankers flame away lol) . When I started this game back in 2005, there was no ganking in highsec. Never happened. Highsec was meant to be a safe place to practice pve and learn the game. Now, it's more dangerous than null/WH space with way less rewards. 3. Alphas should not be able to buy or use skill injectors or extractors. 4. ItemsAlphas can build should be severely limited so as to not negatively affect the economy now.
Just a few thoughts |
c00x
The Avengers.
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:14:48 -
[732] - Quote
corporation management ?
so not only unlimited lame named toons but also corporations? corporations that can be used for war decs or avoiding war decs?
ccp you took all honor out of having an old toon with skill injectors/extractors... and now you want us to put up this?
|
Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:16:26 -
[733] - Quote
Cougaro wrote:Well, I don't troll the forums very much, just read what's going on from time to time. Like every other player in Eve, my voice is just one of many and may or may not count. However, since going FTP is going to happen (no way they'll cancel it after announcing it) I'll add my little opinions as well.
1. Limit logins as they are with trials now. No Alpha and Omega logged in at the same time on the same IP address. 2. Set safeties to green in highsec for Alphas to prevent a huge increase of highsec ganking. For that matter, you can set ALL safeties to green or yellow while in highsec (gankers flame away lol) . When I started this game back in 2005, there was no ganking in highsec. Never happened. Highsec was meant to be a safe place to practice pve and learn the game. Now, it's more dangerous than null/WH space with way less rewards. 3. Alphas should not be able to buy or use skill injectors or extractors. 4. ItemsAlphas can build should be severely limited so as to not negatively affect the economy now.
Just a few thoughts
Agree with this.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5163
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:21:58 -
[734] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:This here caught my eye when I read the devblog: Quote:Questions about abuse:
Q: WonGÇÖt suicide ganking using free characters be a major problem?
A: We donGÇÖt think clone states will have much impact on suicide ganking or other harassment in high-sec. But, we will be paying very close attention and if this becomes an issue we can pursue options to improve the situation such as turning safetyGÇÖs on for Alphas in high sec or making changes to the allowed skills list.
After checking the terms of service, harassment of other players in the game is still not allowed. My guess is, this should rather have read "non consensual combat". Still I'd like to ask: Are there any plans or discussions to re-evaluate suicide ganking or other forms of non consensual combat as harassment?
Suicide ganking is not harassment. Following another player around and ganking them from system to system, even when the target has made an effort to get away from you...that would probably be considered harassment.
Suicide gankers take targets of opportunity--i.e. you make yourself a target, they gank you. They will not fixate on you unless you repeatedly make yourself a juicy stupid target repeatedly in the systems they are in.
So you should maybe sit down and re-read the EULA and TOS.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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MAS0RAKSH
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
13
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:24:05 -
[735] - Quote
I've been around since Dec 2004 on one bastard character or another off and on... why does the eve community treat each new wave of incoming players like the newest immigrants coming to steal their missions, asteroids, salvage, content, etc... ? It's gotta be real fear of loss and I love it. "There gonna take something away from us!" ****, might as well have hillary and trump debate the "Alphas".
I just don't want to see them abused and think an isk limit is good but only in the form of donations to the Alpha and deny them the ability to sell ships. I love that these starters have decent core skills allowing them to get into things quickly, but think the SP level should be 7.5 mil so they can really get into the hook of training while at work for a few days. We want casual players to become dedicated players. If we lose anything to them, good to have the blood pumping.
Will there be any artificial balancing of how many clones are available for each empire because we might see only a small number of amarr and gallente in favor of caldari and minmatar? Say, 500 alphas for each faction so if the limit is reached on a particular race players will be forced to fill up the empty race's slots an then another 500 slots opened up? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5163
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:26:12 -
[736] - Quote
c00x wrote:corporation management ?
so not only unlimited lame named toons but also corporations? corporations that can be used for war decs or avoiding war decs?
ccp you took all honor out of having an old toon with skill injectors/extractors... and now you want us to put up with this?
Looking at my calendar... nope its not the 1st of april.
I find it funny....overall I'm fine with this, but a young whipper snapper like you is butthurt...kinda makes me laugh.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Chigurh Friendo
True Xenon Inc. White Legion.
46
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:33:56 -
[737] - Quote
Hopefully, this set of changes coincides with changes to how intel is conducted.
For example, throwaway Alpha alts stationed in every system of a nullsec pipe for dscan and Local's instant intel purposes... seems strategically relevant and enabled by this set of changes.
There will need to be game design changes that not only improve the sophistication of intel gathering in Eve... but also and especially limit the extent to which simply scaling mostly-afk characters will be abused (i.e. wormhole and gate activation sounds come to mind as well... though maybe the burden of flying an alpha alt back out to a given location is enough of a disincentive).
Certain modules like scanning modules (for scanning ship holds) should probably be prohibited on Alphas too... Otherwise, every gate in hisec will be littered with scanning Alpha alts... It's one thing to enable this type of alt play (which is already viable). However, presently, you can run your own intel and link hostile characters together to figure out the appropriate course of action. If scanning (and intel) alts become truly disposable, then that's a problem I think.
|
Mosquito Bites
Shuttle Phobia
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:36:41 -
[738] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:c00x wrote:corporation management ?
so not only unlimited lame named toons but also corporations? corporations that can be used for war decs or avoiding war decs?
ccp you took all honor out of having an old toon with skill injectors/extractors... and now you want us to put up with this?
Looking at my calendar... nope its not the 1st of april. I find it funny....overall I'm fine with this, but a young whipper snapper like you is butthurt...kinda makes me laugh.
my main is from 2007...
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5889
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:42:36 -
[739] - Quote
Cougaro wrote:Well, I don't troll the forums very much, just read what's going on from time to time. Like every other player in Eve, my voice is just one of many and may or may not count. However, since going FTP is going to happen (no way they'll cancel it after announcing it) I'll add my little opinions as well.
1. Limit logins as they are with trials now. No Alpha and Omega logged in at the same time on the same IP address. 2. Set safeties to green in highsec for Alphas to prevent a huge increase of highsec ganking. For that matter, you can set ALL safeties to green or yellow while in highsec (gankers flame away lol) . When I started this game back in 2005, there was no ganking in highsec. Never happened. Highsec was meant to be a safe place to practice pve and learn the game. Now, it's more dangerous than null/WH space with way less rewards. 3. Alphas should not be able to buy or use skill injectors or extractors. 4. ItemsAlphas can build should be severely limited so as to not negatively affect the economy now.
Just a few thoughts
Items you can build are already limited by skills.
Alphas should be allowed to use skill injectors, just not extractors (I would limit extractor use to Omega only)
I would like to see trial accounts reshaped as a third clone type, meaning skill restrictions applying to trial accounts use the same mechanism as clone grades. This also opens the avenue to a cheaper subscription that uses trial-account equivalent Beta clones but only pays, say, $5/month. Or an option like ESO Plus where you get a trial-account equivalent Beta clone for a few months and a bunch of Aurum. This means an Alpha player can increase their commitment commensurate with their experience, alpha for free while "learning the ropes" and graduating to beta and so on as they become more comfortable or want more power.
So I guess this would be reintroducing "clone grades" from the bad old days as a limit to the skills that can be trained, rather than the SP preserved at death.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
|
Eduard Teach
Ark Royal Mining
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:47:46 -
[740] - Quote
Hello,
So at first I was pissed off and then reading the restrictions it becomes that more nicer. However I feel that paying Eve players should get a benefit from this. It says here that all clones on a subcribed account turn to omega, basically that means we paying eve players cannot use alts on the same account as an alpha state to train those for specific events (roams, wars, factional warfare etc.)
Ofcourse we could all make now 10 different accounts on alpha state just for the fun of it, skill them and in case of need log in on them. However I do not feel this is how the alpha state is intended?
So how does CCP think to handle this matter, which for me is the one real question I have about this.
With a Yooo Hooo Hoo and a bootttlllee of rrrruummm....
|
|
Alexander Bor
Polaris Global Axiom Vocation Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:51:07 -
[741] - Quote
Do you really wanna play the trash hole EVE will become after November?
There's a good game Elite: Dangerous. Let's go there and not deal with all this crap upcoming. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5889
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 05:57:40 -
[742] - Quote
Alexander Bor wrote:Do you really wanna play the trash hole EVE will become after November?
There's a good game Elite: Dangerous. Let's go there and not deal with all this crap upcoming.
How is this change going to make EVE a "trash hole?" I am excited about this because letting subscriptions lapse when I have no money is not going to be the end of the world.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
|
Grookshank
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
121
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:05:15 -
[743] - Quote
Is there a chance to get contracting 3 on the list, so you can use alpha clones to make a reasonable amount of contracts? I don't see how this would hurt the economy in any way. |
SyntaxPD
PowerDucks PowerDucks Alliance
38
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:07:04 -
[744] - Quote
Day 1: CCP implements f2p Day 2: 100500 new accounts created Day 3: Catalyst and Thrasher prices skyrocket on market Day 4: Shitthunderstorms on all EVE forums from highsec miners Day 5: Suicide fleets of 50 catalysts everywhere in highsec Day 6: Citadels are going down Day 7: Nobody flies something bigger, than cruiser Day 8: CCP announce EVE Gate repair, flight through is only allowed to Omegas =ƒÿé |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56278
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:12:39 -
[745] - Quote
Mina Askold wrote:With the new changes coming to eve my drive to play is going fast. I don't know how the rest of you feel but this whole F2P idea just screams fail, and if its as bad as most people think it will be or heck even half this may be the end for me.
Unless they make free accounts yellow safety only this is going to be a **** show, and I don't see myself staying for it.
I will be sticking it out to see how it goes but I'm not holding my breath
They have already nerfed or dumbed down just about everything in this game that took even a small bit of skill and have taken the griefing to a whole new lvl I just can't see myself giving them more money or isk to continue to ruin a game I have loved for so many years
At one point I ran many accounts at times as many as 10, I have been running one for over a year now......main reason for the trim down is the changes suck most of the changes they claim people asked for when they didn't.....
CCP you act like you know what your game needs...do you even play? almost all the changes in the past year have made things worse on almost every level save for the few forumwarriors ...........it was a good run for almost 10 years myself but if the crap keeps up 1 will be zero.....I seem to remember a letter from hilmar saying that this **** would stop and that they would return to the core of the game they loved so much....I can see now that was a total line of BS.......
I know nothing lost and don't let the door hit me on the way out but its that exact attitude that has taken 40K to 25k and no you can't have my stuff Very well said and quite true.
I remember years ago, after the 2011 Summer Of Rage, CCP gave us their Commitment To Excellence, saying they would never release anything until after reviewing playerbase feedback and concerns by making sure all new content would be thoroughly tested, bug free and un-exploitable.
Yeah, really.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3451
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:17:33 -
[746] - Quote
I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.
As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.
Take care all.
This is not a signature.
|
Atrox Wagner
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:23:54 -
[747] - Quote
As a subscribed player since 2007 with breaks from time to time because of RL i have mixed feelings about how @ccp does the F2P. On one hand i'm happy i won't have extra costs, on the other i'm pissed i won't have access to my stuff while i'm un-subbed. Note: I have only 2 accounts, one subbed and one unsubbed because i have no use for it currently. So this is what i propose:
ALPHAS
- access to T2 small & medium - guns / armor / shield / miners
- a cood idea is to block alphas on SAFETY no aggression unless attacked
- limit access to T2 skills that effect T2 modules to max level 4 [like max Medium Blaster Specialisation would be 4]
- access to maximum of T1 frigate / destroyer / cruiser hulls [racial only] + mining barges
- triple or quadruple NPC tax - this would hinder the ISK farmers, that would probably train ventures & mine the entire HighSec after DT.
- only on this type of alpha clonse, make an aura POP-up that would ask the player what characters are written on a certain image [capcha]. this would happen only after 30 minutes of same type of activity [or actually make the timer on the popup random each time] [mining for example] and if the player doesn't enter the correct text into the box, you log them off - this way OMEGAS won't be hindered by lag if there's a large amount of afk alpha miners somewhere in the system.
BONUSES for ALPHAS maybe?
- if alpha subscribes offer them 2 skill INJECTORS or something that would help them, idk
OMEGAS
- obviously nothing changes will be as sub based
- imo, tho not sure how everybody feels about this, reduce cost of monthly subscription, this would probably make people sub for 6 or 12 months at least in one go with direct payment, and will probably keep hard earned isk for blowing up spaceships rather than throwing it on plex. this would probably reduce cost of plex and imma be primary for a while but whatever it's just an idea.
All above ideas came to mind considering the fact that maybe i will create an Alpha account at some point that will complement my main and secondary account. Imo i think they are fair but i would like to know what the community thinks.
^ posted this in another place, but it belongs here, sorry. |
xXchochiXx
Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore
30
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:24:18 -
[748] - Quote
this is alarming to say the least. must not have got the cash boost with injectors as hoping but.
1 this idea will only benefit people after trial why not make something like 1 account per ip thats not limited skill wise but trains at a substantially lower as this free option it so restricted much like a trial account i cant see it being like "omg free space game lets play" |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56278
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:30:33 -
[749] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:So yeah... I can't add anything "constructive" to this Pandora's Box that CCP is about to open beyond, "trash the idea and the person who came up with it."
F2P in any form is, at best, a way to excise as much cash as possible out of a game/franchise. At worst, it is the first death cry of a game.
I have rarely seen an exception to this.
Time to unsubscribe. Definitely agree 100%
I've been told that a mortally wounded animal always bellows just before it dies.
We could very well be witnessing it's Death Throes.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5163
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:33:10 -
[750] - Quote
Atrox Wagner wrote:As a subscribed player since 2007 with breaks from time to time because of RL i have mixed feelings about how @ccp does the F2P. On one hand i'm happy i won't have extra costs, on the other i'm pissed i won't have access to my stuff while i'm un-subbed. Note: I have only 2 accounts, one subbed and one unsubbed because i have no use for it currently. So this is what i propose:
ALPHAS
- access to T2 small & medium - guns / armor / shield / miners
- a cood idea is to block alphas on SAFETY no aggression unless attacked
- limit access to T2 skills that effect T2 modules to max level 4 [like max Medium Blaster Specialisation would be 4]
- access to maximum of T1 frigate / destroyer / cruiser hulls [racial only] + mining barges
- triple or quadruple NPC tax - this would hinder the ISK farmers, that would probably train ventures & mine the entire HighSec after DT.
- only on this type of alpha clonse, make an aura POP-up that would ask the player what characters are written on a certain image [capcha]. this would happen only after 30 minutes of same type of activity [or actually make the timer on the popup random each time] [mining for example] and if the player doesn't enter the correct text into the box, you log them off - this way OMEGAS won't be hindered by lag if there's a large amount of afk alpha miners somewhere in the system.
BONUSES for ALPHAS maybe?
- if alpha subscribes offer them 2 skill INJECTORS or something that would help them, idk
OMEGAS
- obviously nothing changes will be as sub based
- imo, tho not sure how everybody feels about this, reduce cost of monthly subscription, this would probably make people sub for 6 or 12 months at least in one go with direct payment, and will probably keep hard earned isk for blowing up spaceships rather than throwing it on plex. this would probably reduce cost of plex and imma be primary for a while but whatever it's just an idea.
All above ideas came to mind considering the fact that maybe i will create an Alpha account at some point that will complement my main and secondary account. Imo i think they are fair but i would like to know what the community thinks.
^ posted this in another place, but it belongs here, sorry.
Huuhhh...no, no T2 for Alphas, not for guns at any rate. There are now gun/missile spec skills on the list. And no to T2 armor hardners either.
Maybe you should read the Devblog?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17934
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:34:36 -
[751] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.
As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.
Take care all.
Technically it won't ever expire.
Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5163
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:37:20 -
[752] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.
As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.
Take care all.
Technically it won't ever expire. Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?
No, best option is to make wild ass claims about what people will do based on the most outlandish assumptions...then proclaim the game is dying, then post a hurf-blurf post about quitting because....well....because. Dammit!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
BarnacleBOY007
13. Enigma Project
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:37:24 -
[753] - Quote
Hi! So this is the first time I've posted on the forums...and I just resubbed both of my accounts.
To start off, I love this idea. I could count on my one hand the amount of RL friends that were willing to play EVE, the rest didn't even give it a chance because you had to Sub...this new F2P would allow them (many others to come to the game).
My concerns are (and I'm not sure if they have been mentioned or addressed yet): 1- How would the in game market be affected by this change? Has the actual effect been calculated? 2- Since the pricing of subbing an account is not going to change, does that mean the current price to PLEX an account will also be unchanged? 3- (This has been mentioned) Multiple Alpha accounts, or multiple accounts in general. I currently Multibox 2 accounts. Would the rules of this have to change with the new Clone States coming out?
Other than that, CCP you guys are doing a great job...keep it up. I'm really glad to be back in the game. I look forward to more information with regards to these changes in the near future :) |
Ares Splinter
Bank Of Zion The Volition Cult
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:38:00 -
[754] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Greetings capsuleers! Today, we are happy to announce a new change thatGÇÖs coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client. In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a characterGÇÖs race. A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change.
I would like to hear what you intend to trade skill to different factions? I have max skills in trade and do not think it's okay if I have to retrine my my skills again after I get a lot of wasted time on my skill as a trainer now .. I will not think is ok ..
is this a problem for us who have maxet out tradeskills?
Ares Splinter |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56278
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:47:15 -
[755] - Quote
Kitosa Hinoyosha wrote:Ok now eve jumps on the downwards spiral that all games go through on their way out the door...free to play...get ready for eve to be sold to a 3rd person company and CS to go in the toilet...but no seriously wtf ccp...this isnt going to bring in more players because its free...gankers and greifers are still a problem...and now you make it to where they can be even more anonymous...thanks for making it easier for them...and while your at it why not just let CODE run your entire Customer service department and you guys just retire...how about you actually fix whats wrong with new eden instead of giving up on us and hoping the word *free* will save us...it wont...a sad day in new eden history when that goes live... Agree 100%.
That's exactly the point and topic that CCP doesn't want to address which ISD / CCL has been locking and deleting for years now.
To pen a quote from Stan Lee - "Nuff said".
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3451
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:48:40 -
[756] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.
As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.
Take care all.
Technically it won't ever expire. Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?
As a commercial company CCP have the right and indeed must do whatever it considers best to survive.
Eve is a past-time for me but it is the means by which company employees make a living for themselves and their families.
I accept that CCP are doing this to survive as a company but it is a future I choose not to be a part of.
When my sub expires in the middle of next year I shall have been a subscriber for a little over ten years, it seems as good a time as any to retire.
Malcanis, f2p is the harm.
This is not a signature.
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56278
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 06:56:46 -
[757] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:That is a bunch of awesome feedback here so far! Thank you.
As a quick reminder, if you disagree with something or if you think that something will be bad, please explain why you are thinking that. Knowing the reasons and your train of though is incredibly more helpful than just learning about the end result. Ill nutshell it for you... The good: 1) Allows current subs more flexibility with alts 2) Allows new players to experience eve without time constraints. 3) Provides subs with more targets. The bad: 1) Subs keep out a certain type of player many here will find undesirable. While people say well you can just avoid them, ignore them, etc... its like avoiding the white elephant in the room... lots of white elephants. At some point, it becomes easier to just stop playing. 2) Lots of free players do not always mean lots more paying customers. In a F2P/P2W game about 50% of the players will never pay 2 play despite the fact they are at a significant disadvantage. The Clone model of eve doesnt put them at a significant disadvantage. They can still do everything paying players can, just in crappier ships with crappier mods. 3) I see alliances capitalizing on the free players and creating huge TIDI blobs of cheap fleets to take and hold space. 4) Free players really dont add a lot of value to the game but will suck up a massive amount of resources. 5) Welcome to The Market Chaos Era. This is going to have all kinds of weird effects on the market from a variety of angles. 6) No game that i have played that has started either A) in game advertising( despite you paying for it) or B) a free to play mode has done well after that point. At that point you are on a slippery slope and about to lose your footing. 7) Hi! im Roenok and i have 782 Alt Alpha Clone accounts! 8) You, CCP, claims that support will not be affected. But we know thats not true. There are only two paths support can take with this and both of them hurt sub players. The first is that we have to wait stupidly long for our tickets to make it through a constantly backlogged system because of all the Alpha scrubs filing support tickets for stupid stuff. The Second is that CCP hires more support staff. Guess who is paying for that support staff? Sub players. So we either get shittier service or we provide welfare support for free players. 9) Keeping in line with point #8, taking revenue to spend on more support staff for free players also takes money from CCP staff to develop the game. 10) F2P players are going to crowd sub players out of high sec. They are going to suck up most of the resources in high sec while contributing very little to game play. High sec subs are going to get tired of this and do one of two things. One, they are going to move to low sec or null... which is great. Or they are going to unsub and go play something else where they dont have pay to compete with thousands of free players. 11) We are going to have the same tolerance of free players as we do bots, afk miners/ratters, and other undesirables. We are going to try to kill them to make them go away until they become to frustrating to deal with and then we are going to go away. 12) Honestly we would rather you spend more time on making eve awesome and less time on generating revenue. We have bugs that havent been fixed for months. You guys are fixing things that arent broken ( module tieracide) while neglecting things that we hate ( Fozziesov, SBU sov, Pos bash Sov). We ask for the game to have more entertaining PVE and your answer to that is super rats that will WTFOWN you faster than a cap hot drop. Your answer to everything the last few years is to either nerf it or dumb it down. The only good thing ive seen in updates these last couple of years are ship rebalancing and possibly new structures but im still reserving judgement on those. Before you start trying to get new subs, try to keep the ones you got. You want an answer to the trial BS... here it is: 1) Set up a free to play server that is separate from TQ. 2) No restrictions on this server 3) No customer support for this server. You want customer support you have to pay for it. 4) No plexes or skill injectors on this server. 5) The server is wiped clean every 6 months. 6) At any time you may transfer your character and your assets to TQ with your character in its current state. The cost of this transfer is that you buy a 1 month sub plus $5 transfer fee. The transfer fee is waived with a 3 month sub or more. Play your heart out free player. When your sick of being reset, come join us on TQ. Otherwise take all the time you need to learn game mechanics. You could also leave the trial up on TQ as is and give people that option. Ive been playing MMOs for 20 years. My first was a text based browser game on dial up. Ive player MMOs from EA, Blizzard, Atari, Trion Worlds, Big Point, Aeria, Kabam, Rockyou, Plarium, Machine Zone, and a host of other developers i cant remember atm, some of which have been defunct for years. And i can tell you from experience... going down this road is never good for the developer nor the paying customer. But dont take my word for it.... ill quote this post and " i told you so" in a couple of years. Agree 100%.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
BuntCakez
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
37
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:08:09 -
[758] - Quote
You know, for a game whos community almost prides itself on the good old HTFU mentality... most people who are responding negatively to this are just whining that the game might change.
God forbid some of them might consider adapting to the change or even thinking about how they can profit from it, oh no, they are all like "i liked it the way it was before, and even though the changes arent in for another 2 months im gonna cry about it on the forums".
Honestly guys, get your **** together and wait for the feature to come out. This thread is best used to explain what you want to be changed about the current ideas CCP have proposed, and if you are constructive, they will look at your feedback and implement the necessary changes.
So get off the waaahmbulance and HTFU. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56279
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:17:33 -
[759] - Quote
IcewaterKat wrote:So the decision for free to play means end of life, like it does for every other game that goes that route.
Wanna be top dog, well pay to win is the way to go. I hate PTW games, it's just pathetic. So does this mean that EVE is turning into FarmVille? Obviously not, but I can see Alpha corps kicking more butt than paying customers.
There is no long any point for casual players to pay EVE any more, unless they just have to fly a tech 2 ship.
I see that any skill that an Alpha Clone can use symbolizes 'nerfed' skills. A lot of those level 4 skills are quite powerful and Level 5 anything is just overkill for what is allowed.
The level of irresponsible griefing that actual paid players can and some most certainly will without consequence, will exceed the level of what CCP will expect. You know we all surprise you with what we pull off already, if we can use it as an exploit for profit or revenge, it will be done with the skills that will surpass expectation.
__TL;DR__
I'm not mad. Nope. not yet. I'll wait until November for that.
I'm disappointed.
Not once was an attempt made to lower the price of subscriptions to try to encourage new players to come to Eve.
Truly disappointed and a bit ashamed that I pay to play EVE Online. Yeah, agree 100%. Especially after 8+ years of paying sub.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Lhiara Longrifle
Les Mineurs Galactiques
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:19:27 -
[760] - Quote
hi there
i don't know if this as been anwser already but will adk anyway.
I read the page on clone state ... but did not see this question My step brother was a very old player ( subcribed 1 month after the game came out ) and had to stop playing due to lack of time playing and has about 300 M Sp to his character.
1) will he lose is SP because he no longer subscribe? 2) when a player unsbcribe but have a long list on his train queue ( 360 day Worth of skill to train) does the training stop ( pre clone state patch) 2a) after clone state patch will the training stop because he have omega state skill? 3) if he would to resubscribe will he be exactly the same as he left it ( isk, ship, implant) ?
pending on answer i may have more later on
later |
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Luscius Uta
Hek Squad What Squad
226
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:20:11 -
[761] - Quote
I used these forums previously to rant how a subscription-based model should be a thing of the past. These changes are good and I predict they will increase numbers of average logged in users significantly, although they will probably also raise PLEX prices since not everyone will need to have omega clone on all of their alts. Still, few things left me confused.
Why all races get Weapon disruption 3? I would rather want CPU and Power Grid Management 5 on an alpha clone since they are crucial fitting skills.
CCP Seagull said that alpha clones train skills at "slightly slower rate", yet one of the images in the blog shows 29 days of traning for Hull Upgrades V. That is not slightly slower but drastically slower. Having somewhere between 50% and 75% of the normal traning speed would be much more appropriate.
I noticed the lack of PI skills on alpha clones, does this means that all my colonies will stop producing resources once my clone goes into alpha state? If not, will I be able to use planetary launches and customs offices?
Similarly, will I be able to update my market orders if I have more market orders than allowed on an alpha clone? If yes, alpha clones might be popular for station traders who rarely undock and have little need to train new skills.
Personally, I would prefer more if alpha clones had no restriction on ships they can board and modules they can use, but could not train skills, could not place or update non-immediate market orders, could not start any industry jobs and planetary processes, basically nerfing most ways of passive income. Also putting a limit on how many alpha clones you can have logged in simultaneously might be in order. Nevertheless, this is still million times better than the current model where I couldn't log in the game at all or even post on this forum if my subscription ran out.
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5165
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:21:57 -
[762] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:IcewaterKat wrote:So the decision for free to play means end of life, like it does for every other game that goes that route.
Wanna be top dog, well pay to win is the way to go. I hate PTW games, it's just pathetic. So does this mean that EVE is turning into FarmVille? Obviously not, but I can see Alpha corps kicking more butt than paying customers.
There is no long any point for casual players to pay EVE any more, unless they just have to fly a tech 2 ship.
I see that any skill that an Alpha Clone can use symbolizes 'nerfed' skills. A lot of those level 4 skills are quite powerful and Level 5 anything is just overkill for what is allowed.
The level of irresponsible griefing that actual paid players can and some most certainly will without consequence, will exceed the level of what CCP will expect. You know we all surprise you with what we pull off already, if we can use it as an exploit for profit or revenge, it will be done with the skills that will surpass expectation.
__TL;DR__
I'm not mad. Nope. not yet. I'll wait until November for that.
I'm disappointed.
Not once was an attempt made to lower the price of subscriptions to try to encourage new players to come to Eve.
Truly disappointed and a bit ashamed that I pay to play EVE Online. Yeah, agree 100%. Especially after 8+ years of paying sub. DMC
Has the price of a sub gone up? No. Has there been inflation? Yes? So the real cost of a subscription has gone down. An inflation adjusted subscription price is $19.55, stop whining like a bunch of pussies.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Cmdr Clawhammer
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:24:47 -
[763] - Quote
I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information. |
Servant Lord's
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:27:46 -
[764] - Quote
After reviewing the dev blog 3 times I think this isn't so bad like people make it out as. In worst case CCP could always remove this change and go back to the old model? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5165
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:30:29 -
[765] - Quote
Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information.
No.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5165
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:32:52 -
[766] - Quote
Servant Lord's wrote:After reviewing the dev blog 3 times I think this isn't so bad like people make it out as. In worst case CCP could always remove this change and go back to the old model?
Correct, notice that all the doom and gloomers are using examples that are very extreme (100 alt accounts to try and cash in on SP trading, 20 accounts of T1 logi, etc.). Basically, they have nothing serious so they are going for the bullshit and lots of it hoping something will stick. They might find something, but so far I don't see it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
186
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:36:22 -
[767] - Quote
I'm under the impression, that many people haven't read the list of skills. Even the max Level of the skills is limited so the impact will be low.
There are 2 aspects that may be bad: 1. using alpha fleet in Null/low. Well this is up to us PLAYERS!!! unable to handle the freedom CCP gives us which is a lot more then in every other game on the market. 2. Mining with alphas: Same as above
The problem are not the new players but the greed and absolute will to win no matter how damaging to the game by vet players. It is up to US!!!! players to think twice if we will stretch the borders till CCP nerfs us or if we will restrict ourself. The problem is with the Omega players using meta and ingame in any way possible to get the upper hand. Mostly we show the inability to use our freedom wisely so CCP has to step in rather then limiting ourself.
I like the idea, it might get a lot of new players into Eve. In the end it's just an expansion of the 21 day free trial. |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
265
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:38:11 -
[768] - Quote
BuntCakez wrote:You know, for a game whos community almost prides itself on the good old HTFU mentality... most people who are responding negatively to this are just whining that the game might change.
God forbid some of them might consider adapting to the change or even thinking about how they can profit from it, oh no, they are all like "i liked it the way it was before, and even though the changes arent in for another 2 months im gonna cry about it on the forums".
Honestly guys, get your **** together and wait for the feature to come out. This thread is best used to explain what you want to be changed about the current ideas CCP have proposed, and if you are constructive, they will look at your feedback and implement the necessary changes.
So get off the waaahmbulance and HTFU. - Hey, we made a huge pile of crap for ya! Do you like it?
- No.
- Oh, you're not constructive! Come and taste it!
- No. F@#k you.
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nVus Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:39:33 -
[769] - Quote
All they had to do was reduce the sub amount to like half of what it is today, and introduce multiple character simultaneously training on the same account at a scalable level on top of a standard sub.
So say you have a standard sub at about 8 bucks, adding another training queue to that sub cost another say 6 bucks more giving them a sub of 14 bucks and so on so on.
For example: Let's say that 1st account character training subscription gets its costs reduced to 8 bucks, adding additional character skill training to the existing subscription costs 6 more bucks. Bringing the total subscription fee too 14 bucks for 2x per client, it's still below it's current price and that of single PLEX price but also leaving room for one more character training. Adding another 6 bucks giving them a commitment of 20 bucks per client, and scale it by the length of the commitment plan 1 month 3x month 6x month and year, compounding discounts.
By expanding the choice of payment and giving that choice greater value. I feel would add much more value to the current payment and boost sales.
Keeping the above suggested idea of scale and value and bring it across the board of price per longer commitment like 3 month 6 month and yearly pricing and you've got an EVE everyone would be happy with.n++
PLEX features/pricing stay the same and still work well as it is for the casual and situational clients.
The price I just use as an example it could be any figure, my point is it's scales well. n++ |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
265
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:41:55 -
[770] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:I like the idea, it might get a lot of new players into Eve. That's why you're a miner.
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|
BuntCakez
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
38
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:43:15 -
[771] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote: - Hey, we made a huge pile of crap for ya! Do you like it?
- No.
- Oh, you're not constructive! Come and taste it!
- No. F@#k you.
https://media.giphy.com/media/4J7e5A0vQ7YwE/giphy.gif |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:45:12 -
[772] - Quote
Also claims of mineral prices crashing are highly over wrought as well. Sure it might happen, but considering that mineral prices and the economy were fine back when we had a peak of 50,000 players logged in, I doubt this is going to suddenly change. It might, but those predicting this have absolutely no evidence and are just resorting to absurd claims.
One of the key aspects of this is how many new players will there be as a result of this? 25,000 logged in? Great, we'll go back to where we were about 2-3 years ago. Will this mean economic catastrophe? Don't be so fecking absurd. Back in 2013 the average PCU was 48,000. The average PCU now? 20,000. So all the hystronics about T1 production, minerals and the like are just simply bullshit. Literally bullshit. Lies spewed by people who are ignorant and do not know what they are talking about.
With more players there will also be an increased demand for T1 modules and ships. Therefore, there will also be more demand for minerals. There will also likely be more ships destroyed meaning which is also good for ship, module and mineral demand.
Anyone who thinks more players in game is bad is a complete blinkered moron. The claims of catastrophe are also wildly exaggerated claims based on outlers and non-standard behavior as if it were the norm. Now, could this be bad? Sure it could. But I have yet to see a claim that is not based on histrionics and nonsense.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
265
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:45:28 -
[773] - Quote
BuntCakez wrote:someshit.gif No.
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Cmdr Clawhammer
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:46:58 -
[774] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information. No.
But iam able now to have my own mining fleet? Main Omega Char with orca and then 1~3 frigates killing rats + 3~4 mining frigates? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
684
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:48:46 -
[775] - Quote
So, ummm ... defensive FW Plexing alt army? What happened to consequences in highsec? Throwaway gank Thoraxes? Free Venture mining ops 24/7 everywhere?
I foresee problems here boys.
Question: Can these clones trade / jetisson stuff? |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
265
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:51:18 -
[776] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Anyone who thinks more players in game is bad is a complete blinkered moron. Oh, hello, Perfect World.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:51:23 -
[777] - Quote
Also....
Many of these concerns can be solved by simply limiting this F2P option or putting more limitatins on F2P. Put the Alpha clones to green or yellow for safety...fine (although I prefer yellow to give them some PvP options in HS). Limit the number of logins? Fine. Limit the number of logins with Omegas? Fine. Make sure they can't get in certain faction ships via loopholes, fine. These are details, IMO and nothing game breaking.
People who want to "stop this" need to come up with a game breaking problem. And a problem based on $3,000 initial outlay is not reasonable. Sure it might happen, and some players with stupid is ISK could do something weird like having 100 accounts to generate a pathetic amount of ISK after 12 months...whatever.
Come up with something truly game breaking that isn't breath-takingly stupid right out of the box. That is what would be helpful.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:52:11 -
[778] - Quote
Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information. No. But iam able now to have my own mining fleet? Main Omega Char with orca and then 1~3 frigates killing rats + 3~4 mining frigates?
Sure, that appears to be an option.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
684
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:52:40 -
[779] - Quote
Just gave you one: FW DPlexing. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
684
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:55:17 -
[780] - Quote
Oh, and another one: free throwaway thrashers instapopping small frigs and capsules. Where is the problem you ask? NO CONSEQUENCE. Biomass and be at it again in 3 hours tops. |
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:57:27 -
[781] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Oh, and another one: free throwaway thrashers instapopping small frigs and capsules. Where is the problem you ask? NO CONSEQUENCE. Biomass and be at it again in 3 hours tops.
Biomassing because of negative sec status is kinda frowned upon, IIRC.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5889
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 07:58:18 -
[782] - Quote
Would there be any benefit in terms of countering RMT to requiring a minimum subscription time before allowing an account to revert to Alpha status?
What happens to implants and hardwirings that require skills missing from Alpha clones? Do they simply stop providing bonuses, like modules on ships?
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:01:15 -
[783] - Quote
BTW, has anyone in this thread looked at this graph?
Link
Hopefully that link works...
If not, just go here and look at the data since about 2011.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Cmdr Clawhammer
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:01:31 -
[784] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information. No. But iam able now to have my own mining fleet? Main Omega Char with orca and then 1~3 frigates killing rats + 3~4 mining frigates? Sure, that appears to be an option.
Thats cool
Promoted!
From capsule commander to fleet commander :D
Additionally i now can take 2~3 ships as bodyguards with me, that's better then having drones, oh wait, even my bodyguards can use drones :D |
Vidork Drako
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:03:13 -
[785] - Quote
To keep it simple : your goal is to bring new players, the result will be old player exploiting your system to kill the game. I came back to EVE because it wasnt a free to play game, and to avoid craps like these. Take this way and I will just go look elsewhere. You did a nice work thinking about this new system, but think again and see how bad it is. |
Face dePhasme
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:04:28 -
[786] - Quote
cant wait to see the player curve on eve-offline, yesterday i bet a pcu @20k (omega) for march 2017
the good news, we will be able to dock, be alpha & just use EvE for chat with friends, sometimes on week-end you undock a caracal and have "fun"
also... think about what's wrong with the current state of game & the recent decision before add more stupid stuff inside.
You pushed a lot of player out ("because it's was good change for the game") & now looking a way to make them back or get new one
My opinion does not reflect that of my corp/alliance |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
186
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:05:02 -
[787] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:I like the idea, it might get a lot of new players into Eve. That's why you're a miner. mining was an error of my noobship. Maybe with multiple accounts and multiplexing it would get interesting but at the moment I can't be booted to do so.
But for the discussion it's a bad try to devaluate arguments by attacking the arguer. Even if I would be a miner is my opinion less valuable then your leet vet PvP opinion? btw: You are most likely flying ships build from the minerals that the miners digged out of astroids. Next time mine your own minerals! |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2323
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:05:17 -
[788] - Quote
Still cannot get away from my initial feelings, this just introduces people to be farmed as easy kill cannon fodder, how many people will play a game where they will be slaughtered with ease by paying players. Eve is a kill farming game, the simple thing is that people got fed up with the imbalances around this and left, and now you want to bring in free player cannon fodder to keep the kill farmers interested. I noticed people who I classify as kill farmers who just like easy no risk kills liking the idea, their ego's need massaging obviously.
It will not work.
You would have been better off removing the imbalances and making the base account have two toons usable and trainable at the same time and six characters to chose from, while your free to play game on a single character only with no restrictions and reduced training speed. But I guess that you are too worried about your fall off in cash from that change to subs
I had a question whether the kill farmers would still find it satisfying to kill alpha clones and I think they will, after all they shoot anything that moves, and the white knuckle fights are not their fun anyway.
So CCP I just think you are going deeper into your destructive rabbit hole, it is a pity as there is so much good about this game, however I was already de-subbing and I for one will not play in an alpha clone to be an easy farm kill.
You are obviously hoping to attract old players back, but they left for other reasons which you don't deal with and coming back in an easy kill clone ain't going to work as it makes those issues even more evident. And those new players once they realise just how naff their clones are against paying players will walk away too.
Sorry but this is not going to end well...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:06:33 -
[789] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Still cannot get away from my initial feelings, this just introduces people to be farmed as easy kill cannon fodder....
And here we have Johnny One-Note.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Titus Cole Dooley
27
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:06:58 -
[790] - Quote
Free to play is the path to Microtransaction and a bad mobile game for OS.
There has to be a better way. |
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Eretria Amberle
Application Rejected
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:07:45 -
[791] - Quote
In a nutshell,they are just renaming things like how PvP turned into the word Content,they are just calling UnSubbed=Alaphas and Subbed=Omegas. Yes ,alot of Fluff there,but they are sliding skills into distinct catagories,skills for unsubbed (Alaphas) are being limited to "what is practical for a new player" and they can still be trimmed,while the subbed (Omegas) still have unlimited access,and etc for whatever they call the GMs or devs (maybe X-Rays ,Gammmas or Deltas) and their skill sets will be locked under that "clone state"
Free To Play- you know thats like a death sentence I knew there was a problem when my bank told me they blocked eve online from my card cause of suspicious behavior Thats my que to firesale everything ,really CCP you can have it back if you have to go to this ,i can spot you some isk ,if would that help.is there a plex avaiable cause a trial player (unsubbed or alapha clone state) wouldn't even be able to pay for the account with the ingame plex NoteUsers with Alapha Clone State (Status) are not eligible for PLEX rewards,one of the big starters for people was the concept of being able to play the game ,pay for the game throught the game..or will clone states also determine if you can be traded with?Maybe talked with?Able to recieve boosts??(cuz those 200 ventures will need boosts), to pvped with or against,separation by the clear division of wealth,can also use clone states to trim the spamming/scamming.or try Alapha Clone State does not allow you to use the skill but it sure will let you buy it ,lmao, at least we wont have to worry about a level 70 cap
You might not make the list for games closed down for the year 2016 ,you are looking like one of them that might fall hard for 2017 if not 2018.
If the trial doesnt bring in customers how is having more people playing for free with a skill cap of 5mil ,i figure it would make you work trying to keep someone sane in the help channel.I dont even know if there is Support for Eve,there is not live person there to help you just a big answering machine or email reader.
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
187
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:07:47 -
[792] - Quote
Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information. No. But iam able now to have my own mining fleet? Main Omega Char with orca and then 1~3 frigates killing rats + 3~4 mining frigates? Sure, that appears to be an option. Thats cool Promoted! From capsule commander to fleet commander :D Additionally i now can take 2~3 ships as bodyguards with me, that's better then having drones, oh wait, even my bodyguards can use drones :D Sure, if you want to take the hassle of it: do it.
I wrote on the inability of the Omega players to limit themself and to abuse each feature CCP gives us till it get nerfed away and THEN whaling that CCP is nerfing the game. That may be one of the reasons that we have less sandbox then we might have, if we players are ready to handle the freedom CCP gave us. |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
267
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:10:00 -
[793] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Even if I would be a miner is my opinion less valuable then your leet vet PvP opinion? Yes.
Quote:McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2324
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:10:10 -
[794] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Still cannot get away from my initial feelings, this just introduces people to be farmed as easy kill cannon fodder.... And here we have Johnny One-Note.
I see you are trolling this thread with your lame posts
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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BuntCakez
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
38
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:13:18 -
[795] - Quote
This would only be true if you were a l33t pvper :D Which, looking at your KB you are not :D
Maybe you arent posting with your main, in which case, no reason to take your seriously anyway :D
once again though Arkoth:
https://media.giphy.com/media/4J7e5A0vQ7YwE/giphy.gif |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5166
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:14:01 -
[796] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Still cannot get away from my initial feelings, this just introduces people to be farmed as easy kill cannon fodder.... And here we have Johnny One-Note. I see you are trolling this thread with your lame posts
Maybe you and your boyfriend Ripard should get a room...
Yeah, more new players are bad because they might get ganked. Obvious solution: less new players.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
187
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:14:04 -
[797] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Even if I would be a miner is my opinion less valuable then your leet vet PvP opinion? Yes. Quote:McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc Start reading the first paragraph of my text which you deliberately edited out. This corp is a one-man-tax-evading-corp and I will stick to the name even if it doesn't reflect my actual gaming. This just shows that you are unable to handle other aspects of the sandbox then PvP. Valkyrie might be the game for you. Without the miners you would be forced to mine your own minerals: have fun. I don't want to do the job! |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
268
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:15:26 -
[798] - Quote
BuntCakez wrote:sameshit.gif Keep trying.
Geronimo McVain wrote:bla-bla-bla Evasive Maneuvering lvl 5 detected.
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Zeera Tomb-Raider
Night Raven Task Force United Interests
44
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:28:31 -
[799] - Quote
Redusing the sub for playing the game will probebly work better than this ide.if you want more subs and players to stay in the game for a loonger period of time..it will probebly have a better chance of generating more incom for you to. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56281
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:34:04 -
[800] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Still cannot get away from my initial feelings, this just introduces people to be farmed as easy kill cannon fodder, how many people will play a game where they will be slaughtered with ease by paying players. Eve is a kill farming game, the simple thing is that people got fed up with the imbalances around this and left, and now you want to bring in free player cannon fodder to keep the kill farmers interested. I noticed people who I classify as kill farmers who just like easy no risk kills liking the idea, their ego's need massaging obviously.
It will not work.
You would have been better off removing the imbalances and making the base account have two toons usable and trainable at the same time and six characters to chose from, while your free to play game on a single character only with no restrictions and reduced training speed. But I guess that you are too worried about your fall off in cash from that change to subs
I had a question whether the kill farmers would still find it satisfying to kill alpha clones and I think they will, after all they shoot anything that moves, and the white knuckle fights are not their fun anyway.
So CCP I just think you are going deeper into your destructive rabbit hole, it is a pity as there is so much good about this game, however I was already de-subbing and I for one will not play in an alpha clone to be an easy farm kill.
You are obviously hoping to attract old players back, but they left for other reasons which you don't deal with and coming back in an easy kill clone ain't going to work as it makes those issues even more evident. And those new players once they realise just how naff their clones are against paying players will walk away too.
Sorry but this is not going to end well... Very well said and 100% correct.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
268
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:43:24 -
[801] - Quote
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:Redusing the sub for playing the game will probebly work better than this ide.if you want more subs and players to stay in the game for a loonger period of time. .it will probebly have a better chance of generating more incom for you to. Damn, if they want more income - it's fukken easy:
- custom capsuleer-made ship skins for PLEX;
- custom corp logos for PLEX;
- more outfits for PLEX;
- CQ pets for PLEX;
- any-other-crap for PLEX.
Attracting more people who can't pay and wait for 'em to pay is kinda... weird?
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
|
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
45
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:45:26 -
[802] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:But iam able now to have my own mining fleet? Main Omega Char with orca and then 1~3 frigates killing rats + 3~4 mining frigates? Sure, that appears to be an option.
No. It does not. It doesn't even "appear" to be one at all. Where do people get their ideas from? Only because this devblog did not explicitly talk about multiboxing and Alpha restrictions doesn't mean they are free to multibox. Trials cannot be Multiboxed. Why should Alphas be either? They haven't covered a lot of things which Alphas can do and won't be able to do, and the humongous problems with having them multiboxed is obvious.
Lots of folks jumping to conclusions which make no sense at all. Don't confirm something we don't know yet. |
waltari
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:46:37 -
[803] - Quote
This entire idea is pure aids, The Old Republic applied basically same concept and player base dropped for about 900k players. Is CCP really THAT desperate? I feel soundwaves AUR shop bullshit dejavu, burn Jita lock down and economy jam much? A F2P concept simply can't be applied in some games as it wont work, eve is one of them. Don't fix what aint broken. |
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Night Raven Task Force United Interests
45
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:47:36 -
[804] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Mina Askold wrote:With the new changes coming to eve my drive to play is going fast. I don't know how the rest of you feel but this whole F2P idea just screams fail, and if its as bad as most people think it will be or heck even half this may be the end for me.
Unless they make free accounts yellow safety only this is going to be a **** show, and I don't see myself staying for it.
I will be sticking it out to see how it goes but I'm not holding my breath
They have already nerfed or dumbed down just about everything in this game that took even a small bit of skill and have taken the griefing to a whole new lvl I just can't see myself giving them more money or isk to continue to ruin a game I have loved for so many years
At one point I ran many accounts at times as many as 10, I have been running one for over a year now......main reason for the trim down is the changes suck most of the changes they claim people asked for when they didn't.....
CCP you act like you know what your game needs...do you even play? almost all the changes in the past year have made things worse on almost every level save for the few forumwarriors ...........it was a good run for almost 10 years myself but if the crap keeps up 1 will be zero.....I seem to remember a letter from hilmar saying that this **** would stop and that they would return to the core of the game they loved so much....I can see now that was a total line of BS.......
I know nothing lost and don't let the door hit me on the way out but its that exact attitude that has taken 40K to 25k and no you can't have my stuff Very well said and quite true. I remember years ago, after the 2011 Summer Of Rage, CCP gave us their Commitment To Excellence, saying they would never release anything until after reviewing playerbase feedback and concerns by making sure all new content would be thoroughly tested, bug free and un-exploitable. Yeah, really. I Feel mutch the same and will probebly unsub 4 of my 6 acconts.no reson left to have more than max 2 acconts DMC
|
Frank Pannon
190
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:50:08 -
[805] - Quote
I like this idea, it will help pull more people into the game. Cruiser hull limit is a great choice, enables a wide variety of gameplay.
What I did not find / did not understand yet is, what happens to my character, if my subscription runs out. Will I be locked into my "birth" alpha skills, in my case Amarr alpha clone skills?
If you worry about misuses of the alpha clones, do not worry, I am sure they will be reiterated a few times.
We need more players, period :) |
Rendering
Ten Dollar Bond GoonSwarm
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:53:21 -
[806] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:So yeah... I can't add anything "constructive" to this Pandora's Box that CCP is about to open beyond, "trash the idea and the person who came up with it."
F2P in any form is, at best, a way to excise as much cash as possible out of a game/franchise. At worst, it is the first death cry of a game.
I have rarely seen an exception to this.
Time to unsubscribe.
This is apparently a new concept to you so I'll try to help you out. A company's sole role, including ones that make video games, is to make money.
Also by your broken brain logic Dota 2, League of Legends, etc. are all dead games because you can play them for free. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2954
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:53:24 -
[807] - Quote
Frank Pannon wrote:I like this idea, it will help pull more people into the game. Cruiser hull limit is a great choice, enables a wide variety of gameplay.
What I did not find / did not understand yet is, what happens to my character, if my subscription runs out. Will I be locked into my "birth" alpha skills, in my case Amarr alpha clone skills?
If you worry about misuses of the alpha clones, do not worry, I am sure they will be reiterated a few times.
We need more players, period :)
Yeah because when wow made it free to level 30 it really helped
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Arkoth 24
Phayder
268
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:56:34 -
[808] - Quote
Rendering wrote:Also by your broken brain logic Dota 2, League of Legends, etc. are all dead games because you can play them for free. Well, he got brain, so Dota and LoL is not an option for him. And for others, who got brains.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
|
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
154
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:58:16 -
[809] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.
As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.
Take care all.
Technically it won't ever expire. Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?
True, this. I was actually a little disappointed that such a forum regular as Josef didn't set out his views in more detail.
Josef?
|
Grookshank
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
121
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 08:59:23 -
[810] - Quote
Please drop the safety idea. It is really a bad one. An army of free alts is not a high-sec problem; it is a general problem in all areas of space.
There should be a limit on only being able to log in one alpha and no alpha and omega together like on trial accounts. |
|
Rendering
Ten Dollar Bond GoonSwarm
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:05:19 -
[811] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote:Rendering wrote:Also by your broken brain logic Dota 2, League of Legends, etc. are all dead games because you can play them for free. Well, he got brain, so Dota and LoL is not an option for him. And for others, who got brains.
I'm sure this was far more clever in your head than it is when posted. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
354
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:06:16 -
[812] - Quote
I have had now some time to digest the information available and think it through for myself.
I still believe that the current skill list on the table is too restrictive for the Alpha clones. I know several people who absolutely refuse to play f2p games which they think are "pay to win" based on internet hearsay. If an Alpha account can not fly the ships he has access to roughly on the same level as Omegas that is clear "pay to win" function in the sense that unpaid account is severely crippled. Why should an unpaid character stick around in EVE when he is there just to be content to the paying dudes? I myself would call such implementation "pay to win". With the current list the difference between a frigate fitted by Omega and fitted by Alpha are so large that the disadvantage can not be overcomed by flying skillfully if your Omega opponent is any way half decent. T2 guns and modules make a very significant difference on top of already crippled base skill levels.
If you want to allow Alphas to fly real EVE ships they should be able to fly the ships they have access to as well as Omegas do. If needed limiting the access to only frigates which can be flown well is preferable to being able to fly frigs, dessies and cruisers badly. Ofc restricting some roles from Alphas is entirely OK - especially cynos and cloaking, but I would add also e-war other than tackle to the list.
Now about racial restrictions - I really really dislike this idea as EVE has been at it's core a game where starting race has always been just a cosmetic thing. And well - some races cyno alts also needed cyno 5 to be able to do noobship cynos. Such restriction goes directly against that core philosophy. Not to mention racial variations in the space meaning that some areas favor certain race ships for pve (and as such for pvp if a player wants to hunt down these doing pve in there to target their obvious resistance hole). I really do not see it as a problem if Alpha would be able to fly all races industrials and frigates (+ dessies and cruisers if deemed necessary). If you insist on having that racial restriction please consider adding a Beta clone for a small fee which can use all races - say, about 3 EUR for a month of flying all races.
Safety should be set to green for Alphas in hi sec. Lack of access to T2 guns does not prevent Alphas to be used for suicide ganking, one would need just to have more of these which is really not a problem when the accounts are free. For suicide ganking larger number of hulls with T1 guns is normally cheaper than smaller number of T1 hulls with T2 guns as the hulls themselves are relatively minor cost compared to the cost of T2 guns. One possibility is trying to limit the number of Alpha clients that can run on a single machine but such restrictions are trivial to circumvent by a person with minimal technical knowledge. virtualization, for example, is easily accessible to masses nowadays and vast majority of PC's have no problem running few virtual machines at least capable of running EVE client. People WILL run multiple alpha accounts even when it's forbidden in the terms so Alphas should be designed taking this into account by limiting them to the roles which need significant enough amount of attention, like, for example, combat activities. Please disable FoF missiles for Alphas as well while you are at it if this is already not the case. Throwing dozen Kestrels with FoF and modest shield buffer could eat quite a number of lower level PvE content in this game now that FoF work correctly against NPC's (thax for that fix btw). Mining swarms of Ventures in hi sec are not really a problem in my opinion - normal users will run out of multitasking capability somewhere around 5-6 clients and the effectivity will start dropping off fast after that. Granted that is probably enough to do L4 minimg missions, just not as well as an Omega throwing three skiffs at it would do.
So ... in a nutshell: Limit Alphas to all T1 frigates and all T1 Industrials (at L1 skill for the latter) only but allow them to fly them these as well as Omegas do as far as modules go. Other than the obvious module restrictions. No destroyers, cruisers, freighters needed in my opinion. There would be a hard cap on power but under that cap give them the full EVE experience!
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Volstruis
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:08:03 -
[813] - Quote
I really think that the skill list should not allow cruisers, but definitely allow for Tech 2 fittings (including cloaking, but agreed not Cynos). Alpha clones currently exclude pretty much all solo and small gang PVP, which is unfortunate, and most importantly for experienced players returning to test the waters, will be incredibly boring and you won't see the conversion you're after.
They'll need much bigger fleets to do anything PVP related, which is problematic and tiresome.
My suggestion is to simplify the whole system, and let alpha clones ONLY fly tier 1 frigates and dessies that are in faction, with whatever fittings they want. You can still do very well, even in experienced low-sec piracy for example, with only those ships.
Anything else goes... (clearly with the exception of cyno's and other debilitating or abuse ready mechanics)
You do realise that every player who tests the waters is going to 'pay to win' ... I'm sure that's been brought up, and I'm not sure you care, but Eve is going to become land of pay to win if you restrict alpha's so heavily. |
Frank Pannon
190
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:08:06 -
[814] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.
As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.
Take care all.
Bye |
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
102
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:08:11 -
[815] - Quote
If this goes ahead (which seems like it will whatever we say), I actually think Alpha account should have accelerated training time, not slower one, or start with some of the basic skills already injected and trained to lvl 1.
It doesn't make sense that you want to attract F2P crowd who wants fast & cheap (actually free...) experience of the game, but they are stuck with very slow training time to use very basic (and limited) equipment.
I don't suppose it's CCP's vision to have missions of Alpha accounts swarming all areas of the space. Commercially I would imagine you'd want them to sub into Omega eventually.
Help them get into the action ASAP, with obvious and strict limitations that tells them what more cool things they can do if they subbed into Omega.
F2P or not, having to wait excruciating amount of time to train very basic skills to what is already hard-capped low levels is not conducive to attracting what I assume to be the target audience.
So again - get them into action and be able to hit the skill cap relatively fast, so they can enjoy the full Alpha experience as soon as possible, and the hard cap on SP could nudge them into upgrading to Omega (paid) accounts.
Otherwise I see loads of new players trying Alpha account and saying 'fock it this is taking forever to do anything' and just lose interest.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
|
Yarosara Ruil
567
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:08:29 -
[816] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Yeah because when wow made it free to level 30 it really helped
Level 20. They even gave an achievement for Hearthstone if you reach 20 on WoW which awards a free Paladin Hero portrait.
Let's just say that alone pumped a lot of Hearthstone players into playing WoW, and a few of them even stayed for Legion. That counts as a success in my book.
Don't ask me how I know this...
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17936
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:12:14 -
[817] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:I have had now some time to digest the information available and think it through for myself.
I still believe that the current skill list on the table is too restrictive for the Alpha clones. I know several people who absolutely refuse to play f2p games which they think are "pay to win" based on internet hearsay. If an Alpha account can not fly the ships he has access to roughly on the same level as Omegas that is clear "pay to win" function in the sense that unpaid account is severely crippled. Why should an unpaid character stick around in EVE when he is there just to be content to the paying dudes? I myself would call such implementation "pay to win". With the current list the difference between a frigate fitted by Omega and fitted by Alpha are so large that the disadvantage can not be overcomed by flying skillfully if your Omega opponent is any way half decent. T2 guns and modules make a very significant difference on top of already crippled base skill levels.
If you want to allow Alphas to fly real EVE ships they should be able to fly the ships they have access to as well as Omegas do. If needed limiting the access to only frigates which can be flown well is preferable to being able to fly frigs, dessies and cruisers badly. Ofc restricting some roles from Alphas is entirely OK - especially cynos and cloaking, but I would add also e-war other than tackle to the list.
Now about racial restrictions - I really really dislike this idea as EVE has been at it's core a game where starting race has always been just a cosmetic thing. And well - some races cyno alts also needed cyno 5 to be able to do noobship cynos. Such restriction goes directly against that core philosophy. Not to mention racial variations in the space meaning that some areas favor certain race ships for pve (and as such for pvp if a player wants to hunt down these doing pve in there to target their obvious resistance hole). I really do not see it as a problem if Alpha would be able to fly all races industrials and frigates (+ dessies and cruisers if deemed necessary). If you insist on having that racial restriction please consider adding a Beta clone for a small fee which can use all races - say, about 3 EUR for a month of flying all races.
Safety should be set to green for Alphas in hi sec. Lack of access to T2 guns does not prevent Alphas to be used for suicide ganking, one would need just to have more of these which is really not a problem when the accounts are free. For suicide ganking larger number of hulls with T1 guns is normally cheaper than smaller number of T1 hulls with T2 guns as the hulls themselves are relatively minor cost compared to the cost of T2 guns. One possibility is trying to limit the number of Alpha clients that can run on a single machine but such restrictions are trivial to circumvent by a person with minimal technical knowledge. virtualization, for example, is easily accessible to masses nowadays and vast majority of PC's have no problem running few virtual machines at least capable of running EVE client. People WILL run multiple alpha accounts even when it's forbidden in the terms so Alphas should be designed taking this into account by limiting them to the roles which need significant enough amount of attention, like, for example, combat activities. Please disable FoF missiles for Alphas as well while you are at it if this is already not the case. Throwing dozen Kestrels with FoF and modest shield buffer could eat quite a number of lower level PvE content in this game now that FoF work correctly against NPC's (thax for that fix btw). Mining swarms of Ventures in hi sec are not really a problem in my opinion - normal users will run out of multitasking capability somewhere around 5-6 clients and the effectivity will start dropping off fast after that. Granted that is probably enough to do L4 minimg missions, just not as well as an Omega throwing three skiffs at it would do.
So ... in a nutshell: Limit Alphas to all T1 frigates and all T1 Industrials (at L1 skill for the latter) only but allow them to fly them these as well as Omegas do as far as modules go. Other than the obvious module restrictions. No destroyers, cruisers, freighters needed in my opinion. There would be a hard cap on power but under that cap give them the full EVE experience!
CCP aren't calling this "f2p". Marketing this change to your friends as an "unlimited free trial" might help, because that's what it is.
Incidentally, for those who are quitting because eve is getting unlimited free trial access, what's the longest trial account term you feel is ethical? Obviously it's at least 52 days, since we've had 51 day trials before. What's the maximum you'd accept?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Face dePhasme
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:13:04 -
[818] - Quote
Volstruis wrote:I really think that the skill list should not allow cruisers, but definitely allow for Tech 2 fittings (including cloaking, but agreed not Cynos). Alpha clones currently exclude pretty much all solo and small gang PVP, which is unfortunate, and most importantly for experienced players returning to test the waters, will be incredibly boring and you won't see the conversion you're after.
They'll need much bigger fleets to do anything PVP related, which is problematic and tiresome.
My suggestion is to simplify the whole system, and let alpha clones ONLY fly tier 1 frigates and dessies that are in faction, with whatever fittings they want. You can still do very well, even in experienced low-sec piracy for example, with only those ships.
Anything else goes... (clearly with the exception of cyno's and other debilitating or abuse ready mechanics)
You do realise that every player who tests the waters is going to 'pay to win' ... I'm sure that's been brought up, and I'm not sure you care, but Eve is going to become land of pay to win if you restrict alpha's so heavily.
Anything else goes... (clearly with the exception of cyno's and other debilitating or abuse ready mechanics) allow for Tech 2 fittings (including cloaking, but agreed not Cynos)
you must the kind of guy who logon & afk cloak till next DT, it is your vision of eve online the massive multiplayer space battle? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17936
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:15:50 -
[819] - Quote
Toobo wrote:If this goes ahead (which seems like it will whatever we say), I actually think Alpha account should have accelerated training time, not slower one, or start with some of the basic skills already injected and trained to lvl 1.
It doesn't make sense that you want to attract F2P crowd who wants fast & cheap (actually free...) experience of the game, but they are stuck with very slow training time to use very basic (and limited) equipment.
I don't suppose it's CCP's vision to have missions of Alpha accounts swarming all areas of the space. Commercially I would imagine you'd want them to sub into Omega eventually.
Help them get into the action ASAP, with obvious and strict limitations that tells them what more cool things they can do if they subbed into Omega.
F2P or not, having to wait excruciating amount of time to train very basic skills to what is already hard-capped low levels is not conducive to attracting what I assume to be the target audience.
So again - get them into action and be able to hit the skill cap relatively fast, so they can enjoy the full Alpha experience as soon as possible, and the hard cap on SP could nudge them into upgrading to Omega (paid) accounts.
Otherwise I see loads of new players trying Alpha account and saying 'fock it this is taking forever to do anything' and just lose interest.
It us in CCP's interest to have more people playing even if they don't convert. Recall that in EVE, the players are the content. More people playing means more.game for everyone else. An EVE with 500k accounts paying 250k subs is much better for CCP than an EVE with 250k accounts paying 250k subs.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Volstruis
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:17:19 -
[820] - Quote
Honestly, save yourselves from mountains of code and write one business rule that limits Alphas to frigate hulls only, then write another that stops them using cynos, then call it a day. This will inspire most people to buy the occasional plex to replace lost assets. Kaching. |
|
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1629
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:21:59 -
[821] - Quote
It's truly amazing to me how many people think they understand how business works, but then go to spew so much BS it's not even funny anymore. So let's just debunk all this BS right here and now.
1. "CCP must be in financial trouble!" No they're not, they're in one of the most healthy financial states they've been in in years, which is partly what enables them to do this in the first place.
2. "EVE is dying!" EVE has been dying since 1999. GTFO.
3. "People are going to use hundreds of alts to ruin the game forever!" If you really honestly think that CCP will allow a single person to log in hundreds of free accounts at once you are completely insane. I'd be willing to bet all my EVE assets that Alpha accounts will be IP/hardware restricted to a single session. Even Omega accounts probably aren't allowed to run a free Alpha account next to their main.
4. "Suicide ganking will be at an all time high!" No it won't, because Alpha accounts will have their security settings locked to green and yellow. The Dev Blog might say that it's a 'possibility' but believe when I say this is going to happen. The CSM is pushing for it and it's the number one most mentioned feedback in this thread. Alpha accounts will NOT be able to suicide gank in High Sec.
5. "Free to play is bad and I won't be part of it. I'm unsubbing!" K, bye. You won't be missed and no-one cares.
6. "They could have just lowered the sub cost." And this is the largest issue I have. No. That's not how any of this works. That is not why this is being done. The gaming market has changed since 2003 when subscription models were entirely normal. Since then an entirely new generation of teenagers has grown up who simply do not accept the notion of paying for a game monthly. EVE Online is one of the very last games to have this model and it cannot be sustained with the current market trends.
The major number 1 reason why people quit EVE after their trial is because they can't or won't pay 15 dollars a month to play a video game. Check any user submitted reviews on Steam and other places. They simply don't understand the concept because they grew up in a time where subscription based games had pretty much died out. Most of these people actually seem to be offended by the mere notion of having to pay monthly. They perceive it as a money grab, greed, that sort of stuff. And what you need to understand is that it doesn't matter if they are right or wrong. They are the consumer base CCP needs to survive, whether they like it or not. So they need to appeal to a consumer base that does not want to pay monthly. And the very first step in doing that is to make the game free to play. No amount of lowering of sub costs would have fixed that because it's the sheer principle that people are against.
Subsequently, don't think that this free to play mode is the only change that's coming. This is a first appeal to a new modern market, but subscription fees will be completely removed within the next 5 years to be replaced with more microtransactions. You can argue this is a bad thing or a good thing or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that within 5 years CCP will receive more income from PLEX and Aurum sales than they get from subscriptions. The market is changing, consumer preferences are shifting. And if CCP doesn't change with them, they will get left behind and EVE will, in fact, die.
Now, I agree that microtransactions can be a horrible addition to a game in a lot of cases. But with EVE it hasn't gotten in my way much YET. Which is a testament to CCP's careful introductions of these things. You can buy ISK and SP, but none of it is ever generated out of thin air and that's the important part. As long as you can't buy items, ISK or SP directly for cash, microtransactions won't harm the EVE ecosystem.
In the end the age old adage applies as much in the real world as it does in EVE Online. Adapt or die. Accept change or you will be left behind, no matter how much you scream. And personally I would rather contribute to the discussion with valuable feedback instead of throwing a tantrum over something that is going to happen regardless of how loudly you protest.
So to everyone throwing a fit, threatening to unsub, etc; Shut up or provide some constructive and polite feedback to improve the Free to Play feature. No-one cares about your threats and your insults. Stop being a baby.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
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|
Doramina
Elite Firebird Investments
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:23:34 -
[822] - Quote
I quite like the options between clones in an effort to bring more players to the game but I think there should be a better buff for ascension to the omega clone including
- Restrictions to safety setting to green only.
- Restriction to faction space only.
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
354
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:25:10 -
[823] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: It us in CCP's interest to have more people playing even if they don't convert. Recall that in EVE, the players are the content. More people playing means more.game for everyone else. An EVE with 500k accounts paying 250k subs is much better for CCP than an EVE with 250k accounts paying 250k subs.
Exactly! The richness of the EVE is mainly the possible interactions between its players (whatever form these interactions take). That is why the single shard thing is so important and that is why the EVE experience will be greater for all involved the more actors are available for an interaction at any given time. It is a complex, nonlinear system where the end result is far richer than just the sum of its parts.
That is why it is important to retain as many of these "free" accounts as possible even when they will not end up subscribing. For that to happen they should be competitive with the paying customers in the niche which is made available to them. As it stands that niche seems to be intended to be T1 frigates, destroyers, cruisers and industrials but with so crippling limitations that I honestly do not believe EVE would retain any of the Alphas that are not alts of existing Omega accounts. With the exception of people just using EVE as a chat channel ;) I know few who are paying subs for couple of accounts just to log in and talk to people because everyone knows that everything is better with multiple accounts, even chatting :D Full EVE experience starting at 2 accounts and all that.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
687
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:26:09 -
[824] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:Please drop the safety idea. It is really a bad one. An army of free alts is not a high-sec problem; it is a general problem in all areas of space.
There should be a limit on only being able to log in one alpha and no alpha and omega together like on trial accounts.
I'd go even farther and propose only ONE Alpha be logged in period. If you have an Omega, drop the Alpha. You want to attract new player, not offer a free alt to subscribers. I can only see abuse in consequence-free 5mil SP alts. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56285
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:26:21 -
[825] - Quote
I can't believe I went through and read 42 pages, liked a bunch of the replies and quoted those that mirrored my own feelings about this topic which is basically NO, NO, NO.
Maybe I'm mistaken but for some reason I seem to remember years and years ago CCP saying quite a few times that this game would never be Free to Play or Pay to Win.
Within my 8+ years of playing this game, I've seen way too many good Dev's get fired and this game has been hurting for it ever since, especially in the last couple of years. Recently it seems the term 'New Content' mainly refers to graphics being redone or needless changes to UI or implementing drastic changes to game mechanics basically placing rules and restrictions on game play, etc.
Trying to portray the topic of this Dev Blog and thread as 'New Content' is an insult since it's actually an announcement about changes to subscription policy, more importantly, it totally goes against the core aspect that this game was founded on. Course the same was said years ago about introducing Micro Transactions into the game.
Anyway, despite all the objections posted in various threads about this topic, CCP will do what they want. I won't log into the game as much as I use to do but I'll definitely keep this account subbed so my character can continue training skills. I hope CCP will soon see the folly of their ways, come back to their senses and get back to releasing game expansions that produce excellent game content. That is what gains paid subscriptions. Having that content be bug free and not break any existing content is what keeps paid subscriptions.
If not, at least I'll be able to say I was there when Eve was real.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Mr Justice T
The Graduates The Initiative.
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:27:01 -
[826] - Quote
Cuz of plenty of alpha clones in high sec, CONCORD should start patrolling belts to kill instantly gankers.
|
Velores Prokhozai
WARP Mechanics Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:27:40 -
[827] - Quote
Ok, this is the things that I am woried about:
-Alpha accounts should be able to launch only one game instance per computer, point. Also you can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running.
-Alpha players must be limited to public communications, to prevent spamming. So if you want doing ISK doubling in Jita local please keep subscription. Also consider in this case "verified alpha" state for characters that have been subscribed to omega at least onece, "verified alpha" shoud have no restrictions in terms of public communication, but can lose that privilege if eula was violated.
-All "offline" professions should be also limited by some way. PI, T1 blueprints (production, research, copy),R&D agents, market orders, contracts - to prevent abusing by hundreds of alts. Maybe just double or triple industry tax/broker fee for alpha character so running all those jobs/orders would not be economically profitable in large scales, but newbros still be able to try build rifter from veldspar.
-Not shure about hisec gank and FW. If we can keep "one player - one human" nothing bad will happen there.
And the most sweet part - Wormhole Keepers What if I will create thousands of characters and then logoff every one, in every wh system I can reach, sitting heron and probe launcher, and then at any time later I can login and scan down way to any wh system in universe in couple of minutes. So I think Alpha clones are very cheap and imperfect - they must visit medical service once a week to keep them alive. If you want to live in wh you could have Astrahus(God bless Upwell) there. If you stay in space more than a week -> eject -> selfdestruct -> welcome to home station. And yes, no ship reimbursement, is it still game about cruel galaxy or what?
Hope I was heard. Thanks. |
Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
30
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:31:24 -
[828] - Quote
generally a +1 for new blood into the game. proposed restrictions seem reasonable. after reading through the first replies to this thread, I'd like to upvote the suggestion about aggro restriction, green only in high sec, to avoid freebie gank swarms adding up to the already tedious ganking environment there.
I'd vote against the notion to let the freebies have all listed skills maxed out from the start on, would be an excellent training shortcut for newcomers who would immediately sub into a fully capable combat alt/main without at least some time lapse.
P.S.: Can't wait to have a pvp experience in areas to which I'm risk-averse or otherwise am unable to use my main for. I can already see the corporate and alliance security measures go considerably up for all the large entities in sovnull |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
45
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:35:32 -
[829] - Quote
Frank Pannon wrote:What I did not find / did not understand yet is, what happens to my character, if my subscription runs out. Will I be locked into my "birth" alpha skills, in my case Amarr alpha clone skills? The devblog already answered this question thoroughly;
"We wonGÇÖt be moving ships around or cancelling your jobs and orders. Instead, benefits from skills that require Omega state wonGÇÖt be applied and modules requiring those skills will go offline." <-- thus only the skills apply you are allowed to have as Alpha, in case you even trained them.
In case you logged out in a ship which is Omega skill restricted: "You will be allowed to fly the ship until the next time you dock, but any ship bonuses or attributes will not gain the benefits of Omega skills." <-- I reckon if you don't want to be locked out of your ship, you just log off in space if you know you're prior to expire. However, given the nature of possible exploits, I wouldn't bet my money this devblog entry will remain. You don't need to dock anywhere to still be viable to do certain shenanigans in the game by simply BEING in a ship, like bumping Machariels or the role bonus of a Combat Recon ship of not being detectable on d-scan. There are still concerns pending requiring CCP's decision.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
688
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:37:48 -
[830] - Quote
Dex Cordell wrote:I'd like to upvote the suggestion about aggro restriction, green only in high sec, to avoid freebie gank swarms adding up to the already tedious ganking environment there.
Missing the point- there's plenty of exploits with safety green. Free gankers are as bad as free miners, free scouts, free DPlexers, free assembly lines, free scanner alts, free logi, free belt Orca bumpers (which WILL work with green safety LOL) in fact "free" is the problematic part here. If everyone else is getting freebees I demand free cyno alts and free cloaky eyes too-- then I can unsub as well.
Ganking is the least of your concerns imo. |
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56287
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:39:55 -
[831] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
CCP aren't calling this "f2p". Marketing this change to your friends as an "unlimited free trial" might help, because that's what it is.
Incidentally, for those who are quitting because eve is getting unlimited free trial access, what's the longest trial account term you feel is ethical? Obviously it's at least 52 days, since we've had 51 day trials before. What's the maximum you'd accept?
Might as well make it 90 days. That seems to be a number CCP likes.
Forum threads are locked after 90 days.
Epic Arcs can be repeated after 90 days.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Titus Cole Dooley
30
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:48:33 -
[832] - Quote
Sad thing is no matter how much people don't like this change its still going to happen. we would have to have a real burn Jita 2 and then unsub like 10k players. never know maybe its just a cycle we will have to go through to keep the game going the way we want it. |
BuntCakez
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
40
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:52:50 -
[833] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: Within my 8+ years of playing this game, I've seen way too many good Dev's get fired and this game has been hurting for it ever since, especially in the last couple of years. Recently it seems the term 'New Content' mainly refers to graphics being redone or needless changes to UI or implementing drastic changes to game mechanics basically placing rules and restrictions on game play, etc..
Ive been playing a while aswell, and i honestly think that the changes made to EVE in the last year or so have been some of the best changes theyve done. Phoebe jump changes are amazing, though i think they should come up with some way of making it easier to just move caps (as in when moving home). Fozziesov, though far from ideal, imo is much better than domsov. Definitely agree that they could do with spending some more time on it to polish and balance it better, but the core ideas are good.
And overall, EVE already has so much **** in it already. You dont need to add more to help create content. Sometimes balancing or changing stale existing content can do much more for the game.
I'd definitely say it will be worthwhile to stick around and see how the game changes as more random scrubs are added. I for one think it will be a good laugh. Many scrubs will still quit very fast, but some will stay, and join the community.
CCP still have plenty of time to work out any kinks in this new system before releasing it, and due to its nature, im sure they will keep a very close eye on it for balancing even after its out.
I have faith in CCP here.
#dicksOutForHarambe |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:53:04 -
[834] - Quote
Maybe CCP could take advantage of this now to alter the NPE to the better and to cripple the possible side effects of mass alts.
To get your max skill points on these Alpha's have them run all the tutorials on there racial side and award the skill points for completed sections of the tutorials. Does it matter that you will acquire them all in one go i doubt it but will have to make them work for it, just how many alts are people prepared to make each day when you have to run the tutorials for each and every one you make.
Just a thought. |
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
106
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 09:53:43 -
[835] - Quote
ive read this, and thought long and hard about how I want to respond to this
EVE has been unique in this aspect of sand box shared single shard universe
I honestly think that the free to play mode was just one more nail in the coffin for the decline of the online game EverQuest.
I think this will be bad for EVE as well, for too many reasons, many of which have already been listed previously
If I understand the goal of this, its to attract more players with the chance to mess around in the game, try it out, interact with other players ect ect. then hopefully upgrade to full paying account
for the safety and health of the game.... I think this is possible, but I would say that all non-subscribing accounts that start out when this goes live... should be restricted to a "pocket universe" and not fully access to the rest of the Eve galaxy... a dozen or so solar systems, with variety of tools and stuff to learn the game.... with a one way wormhole exit out of this "region" to the regular universe of Eve online (drop em off right in Jita )
that is my suggestion, yes it would need some more fine tuneing and expansion of this idea, but that is the basics of it
I foresee too many issues that could be disruptive to the game
old accounts that players start back up come back in a restricted "alpha" mode and no restrictions on locations since they are already in the existing universe.. I'm only suggesting that any new accounts created after this goes live start in the new "pocket universe" and restricted to the pocket universe until they go paying account and able to move into new universe |
Velores Prokhozai
WARP Mechanics Fidelas Constans
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:06:04 -
[836] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote: Look at a current trial account, which has a few second spam prevention, and tell me why it's so bad for Alphas to be chat restricted but not for trials?
Ok, I did not know how current trial works. If chat cooldown works well then let it be. (Actually by "limited" I didn't mean can't chat at all )
Drazz Caylen wrote: This goes to any and all people by the way who have in all those pages roared something about what Alphas totally are not and never allowed to do, which trial accounts already can do.
For example on current 21 day trial you can't put some battleship blueprint to research 10/20 ME/TE for half of the year, because it will stuck there. But alpha will be just free slot for that kind of job. |
Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
30
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:07:41 -
[837] - Quote
another thing after some more reading through...disable implants for alpha clones. |
Fedo Otsolen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:10:36 -
[838] - Quote
THIS IS AN INGAME EVENT. ITS A DRIFFTER INVASION! |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
340
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:11:51 -
[839] - Quote
In case you didnt know: F2P EVE is available right here, right now. Just extract your skill points at the end of the month and trade injectors for a PLEX. If managed right, you'll get some extra ISK for a bunch of Rifters.
So if there is some smart-ass exploit that becomes available with Alpha-clones, it is also certainly available anyway. In this regard Alpha-clones can not pose a threat. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
340
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:16:54 -
[840] - Quote
Gunrunner1775 wrote:I foresee too many issues that could be disruptive to the game Name a few. |
|
Rendering
Ten Dollar Bond GoonSwarm
9
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:28:37 -
[841] - Quote
The security setting to Yellow is a bit unnecessary if the concern about suicide ganking is the reason. You need T2 guns on a Catalyst, for example, to be able to effectively gank anything larger than a Venture most of the time. Mechanically, you're gimped by the lack of T2 mod access on an Alpha account already making the yellow safety unneeded. With the lack of T2 mods, suicide gankers require more coordination between themselves, which is about as emergent of gameplay as the concept of suicide ganking is. Putting a paywall behind being able to play one of EVE's more notable sandbox gameplay aspects seems silly. |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
203
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:28:53 -
[842] - Quote
Velores Prokhozai wrote:Ok, this is the things that I am woried about:
-Alpha accounts should be able to launch only one game instance per computer, point. Also you can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running.
-Alpha players must be limited to public communications, to prevent spamming. So if you want doing ISK doubling in Jita local please keep subscription. Also consider in this case "verified alpha" state for characters that have been subscribed to omega at least onece, "verified alpha" shoud have no restrictions in terms of public communication, but can lose that privilege if eula was violated.
-All "offline" professions should be also limited by some way. PI, T1 blueprints (production, research, copy),R&D agents, market orders, contracts - to prevent abusing by hundreds of alts. Maybe just double or triple industry tax/broker fee for alpha character so running all those jobs/orders would not be economically profitable in large scales, but newbros still be able to try build rifter from veldspar.
-Not shure about hisec gank and FW. If we can keep "one player - one human" nothing bad will happen there.
And the most sweet part - Wormhole Keepers What if I will create thousands of characters and then logoff every one, in every wh system I can reach, sitting heron and probe launcher, and then at any time later I can login and scan down way to any wh system in universe in couple of minutes. So I think Alpha clones are very cheap and imperfect - they must visit medical service once a week to keep them alive. If you want to live in wh you could have Astrahus(God bless Upwell) there. If you stay in space more than a week -> eject -> selfdestruct -> welcome to home station. And yes, no ship reimbursement, is it still game about cruel galaxy or what?
Hope I was heard. Thanks. This.
CCP pls dont ignore feedback. The change to F2P isnt a simple cash grab like the skill injectors. Its an open heart surgery. Mistakes can kill the game.
|
Uba Stij
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:32:25 -
[843] - Quote
Titus Cole Dooley wrote:Sad thing is no matter how much people don't like this change its still going to happen. we would have to have a real burn Jita 2 and then unsub like 10k players. never know maybe its just a cycle we will have to go through to keep the game going the way we want it.
There is far more positive/optimistic comments and views on this than you're willing to admit. Mostly because those people actually read the dev blog (reading comprehension is hard for you apparently), and used common sense. |
Frank Pannon
191
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:38:42 -
[844] - Quote
Toobo wrote:If this goes ahead (which seems like it will whatever we say), I actually think Alpha account should have accelerated training time, not slower one, or start with some of the basic skills already injected and trained to lvl 1.
It doesn't make sense that you want to attract F2P crowd who wants fast & cheap (actually free...) experience of the game, but they are stuck with very slow training time to use very basic (and limited) equipment.
I don't suppose it's CCP's vision to have missions of Alpha accounts swarming all areas of the space. Commercially I would imagine you'd want them to sub into Omega eventually.
Help them get into the action ASAP, with obvious and strict limitations that tells them what more cool things they can do if they subbed into Omega.
F2P or not, having to wait excruciating amount of time to train very basic skills to what is already hard-capped low levels is not conducive to attracting what I assume to be the target audience.
So again - get them into action and be able to hit the skill cap relatively fast, so they can enjoy the full Alpha experience as soon as possible, and the hard cap on SP could nudge them into upgrading to Omega (paid) accounts.
Otherwise I see loads of new players trying Alpha account and saying 'fock it this is taking forever to do anything' and just lose interest.
This makes sense, interesting point to consider. |
Kierene Hilthene
Kierene Hilthene Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:39:51 -
[845] - Quote
I think we should be aware of the priorities of our content... I don't really see this as the end of the game, due to it's restricted nature. But can we keep motivation up long enough to tolerate these kinds of changes? People may opt to blame current subscription numbers to things like these. And people may tend to agree with them. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Wrecking Machine.
1124
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 10:56:17 -
[846] - Quote
It was really odd to see Gallente having shield rigging on the skill list but Minmatar not having armor rigging. When I'm thinking of the frigate to cruiser lineup for Minmatar I would use 50% armor fits and 50% shield fits, so not having access to the skill reducing the drawback a bit feels odd. Furthermore, Minmatar and Gallente EWAR skill lineup includes ECM, Weapon Disruption and TP (Minmatar) or Damps (GallentE) while Amarr and Caldari both have ECM and Weapon Disruption. This means two races have access to three types of EWAR while the other two only have access to two. Bonused ships aside, these two are not even exclusive. Either make them equally accessable to all or lock them to their race: Caldari (ECM), Minmatar (TP), Gallente (Damp), Amarr (TD/MD).
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
|
Ledo Hashur
New Eden Development Corp Warped Intentions
8
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:01:59 -
[847] - Quote
A suggestion... consider sharding the game..... an Alpha shard and an Omega shard. That would certainly satisfy all the naysayers, such as myself. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:04:46 -
[848] - Quote
Ledo Hashur wrote:A suggestion... consider sharding the game..... an Alpha shard and an Omega shard. That would certainly satisfy all the naysayers, such as myself. Then how are they to experience new eden exactly, a pocket universe full of cruisers and lower ??? |
Scath Bererund
SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:11:21 -
[849] - Quote
This is pretty well thought out except 1 thing
I can train a competent suicide ganker on those skills.
You are gonna have to lock the safety to green or yellow in higsec or its gonna be carnage |
Crack Spawn
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:12:35 -
[850] - Quote
After 12 years of paying yearly subscription I don't think I'll be doing that any more, I don't think it would be a wise investment......
Last 3 patches/Updates are like sex for the first time very quick and disappointing
Time for a change in management?
CCP staff might be a good idea updating linkedin |
|
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
45
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:15:09 -
[851] - Quote
Velores Prokhozai wrote:For example on current 21 day trial you can't put some battleship blueprint to research 10/20 ME/TE for half of the year, because it will stuck there. But alpha will be just free slot for that kind of job. No. Alphas are unable to learn the skill "Laboratory Operation" which limits their research slots to zero. Allow me to take this as peg to address a wide swath of players expressing their opinions here (so please don't take it as personal attack or insult).
A frightening amount of persons came here and posted things which were easy to answer by just reading the devblog in itself, making it harder for unlisted concerns to be filtered and making it harder for the devs and moderators to do their job. Another frightening amount of persons don't even seem to know how the game works they've been playing, as skills they had for so many years became just self evident. Things just "happen". Or their perception for skills being warped by their association with words. A common mistake is Industry adding manufacture slots and Research adding research slots. But it's okay, it happens to newbros and Veterans the same Furthermore so many scream and point at Alphas about things trials are able to do already and could just be exploited the same way, and probably are being tried yet have failed. It doesn't get into my head why someone would think we'd be able to online more than one Alpha per session. Beats me.
These continued types of glaring oversights make me wonder how many people really know the EvE they are playing.
Ledo Hashur wrote:A suggestion... consider sharding the game..... an Alpha shard and an Omega shard. That would certainly satisfy all the naysayers, such as myself. The only shard I could see having a profitable outcome, is "Mortality" -> deaths are permanent. Eve online is not Rift where they sharded all trials to their own server in the past. It alienates communities and makes establishing contact to people you would subscribe to play with impossible. It's all fine and dandy of people to think all the time how to circumvent exploit from veterans. It's kinda endearing. But if this is all you do, then there is nothing left for a new player and the only barrier left would be "Buy 2 play". Grab Eve for 45 bucks once and play forever, putting emphasis on a bigger cash shop. Which is a much worse idea than Alpha clones. Hence why it is important to find the line between both which works.
Fedo Otsolen wrote:THIS IS AN INGAME EVENT. ITS A DRIFFTER INVASION! Brilliant Sir, brilliant. Excellent. Bravo. I would salute you but I'm busy cleaning my screen right now |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15156
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:22:08 -
[852] - Quote
CCP is afraid of calling it f2p because of the bad reputation in EVE community. Because whales, elitarism and fear of CCP pursuing a dream of cash grab, like in 2011 when Jita monument was destroyed. All fears materialized.
Everyone here probably at least tried some other f2p game. These can be very restrictive on what you can do when playing for free. Sometimes they start just like a glorified, extended into infinity trial with "BUY ME!!!" messages that constantly spam your screen. There are cases (AOC) when company started with this model, and even called it f2p because they thought it will make them more money. With time, company seeing how it doesnt make them any more money and subs are dropping constantly tried to extend freedom for f2p players. Didnt work either.
If you want subscriptions, work on core gameplay.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
Arkoth 24
Phayder
273
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:25:44 -
[853] - Quote
Rendering wrote:I'm sure this was far more clever in your head... That's what she said.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
|
Kusum Fawn
Perkone Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:26:43 -
[854] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote:[quote=Velores Prokhozai] A frightening amount of persons came here and posted things which were easy to answer by just reading the devblog in itself, making it harder for unlisted concerns to be filtered and making it harder for the devs and moderators to do their job. Furthermore so many scream and point at Alphas about things trials are able to do already and could just be exploited the same way, and probably are being tried yet have failed. It doesn't get into my head why someone would think we'd be able to online more than one Alpha per session. Beats me.
These continued types of glaring oversights make me wonder how many people really know the EvE they are playing.
[quote=Dev Blog] Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
A: We have not decided whether the simultaneous log on restrictions from the current trial system will apply to Alpha Clones. The decision will partly depend on your feedback, as well as our technical investigations over the coming months.
A frightening amount of persons came here and posted things which were easy to answer by just reading the devblog in itself, making it harder for unlisted concerns to be filtered and making it harder for the devs and moderators to do their job.
If one would only read the Dev blog like one was suggesting to others, one would know that the screaming you hear from people talking about alpha swarms is not entirely unfounded.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Titus Cole Dooley
31
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:34:14 -
[855] - Quote
Uba Stij wrote:Titus Cole Dooley wrote:Sad thing is no matter how much people don't like this change its still going to happen. we would have to have a real burn Jita 2 and then unsub like 10k players. never know maybe its just a cycle we will have to go through to keep the game going the way we want it. There is far more positive/optimistic comments and views on this than you're willing to admit. Mostly because those people actually read the dev blog (reading comprehension is hard for you apparently), and used common sense.
I like how insult me to show how smart you are way to go man hope you feel good. |
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
100
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:34:40 -
[856] - Quote
What will happen if your in a ship that you cant fly when the clone state reverts to Alpha? |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
13
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:36:39 -
[857] - Quote
Anyone else here that played D&D online when it went "free to play" as one of the first MMOs to do so? From my personal experience I can say that it changed the game form nearly dead to the most fun I had with a MMO so far.
|
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
45
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:40:07 -
[858] - Quote
See, while I disagree with you on many points, and while some of your concerns have been raised by others and counter-argumented as well, the good tone you set up allows me to welcome this discussion instead of groaning at glaring oversights spouted into the thread. This makes me want to comment a lot of your thought-laden post just by virtue of you taking your time posting behaved. So let's have a look:
The several people you pointed out who innately refuse F2P games since they believe they are pay2win based on hearsay is irrelevant. If they don't try it out for themselves to make an informed opinion, they're likely not cut for EvE in the first place.
The P2W debate is as old as Plex and still not convincing. As for how crippled an unpaid account is, I think you project too much requirements for what you think is mandatory to play the game, after all your years in EvE. The debate has come and gone time and again how skilled players in t1 fits have been a match and more for t2 pilots who can't think on their feet, even if you scale it up. Putting the tools you have to good use is better than just believing "purple is win". You can have fun with t1 in pvp. Maybe it's just not your type of fun. Highskill pilots using t1 ships to do high level missions is not new. Lowskill pilots doing high level missions in t1 ships isn't new either.
The skill list is much more inclusive than you think. Not so long ago, Trials were unable to even use industrials. Being able to skill to about 5 Million SP with all allowed Alpha skills is huge. It extends the time roughly to 3 months for testing quite a lot of parts of the game without investment before the limit is reached. The key is diversity and taking time to test the basics of careers.
EvE online is a very social game. The people you meet on average have a larger impact on you staying than other factors. Some unpaid characters will stick to the game simply to be around and chat. Creating potential microtransaction buyers. Creating potential encounters.
I believe you focus too much on gear and disregard the pilot. A pilot who is being taught how to put what they have to good use will be a better pilot when advancing to better ships. It's like teaching your little brother a game and practice with him, telling him the tricks you learned so he can advance faster to be a better playing partner sooner. It's the quintessence of education to have your pupils surpass the peers. If you keep cheating on your little brother and withhold his progression, then you just want to feel superior. A one eyed king to the blind. Grab the Newbies. Guide them. Make them forge content on their own which you can participate in too.
Your notion of starting races always been cosmetic is factually wrong. Back in the day, creating a new character prompted you a career / background choice. A Minmatar Engineer had different starting skills than any other racial engineer for example, and I don't talk about racial ship and weapon skills. Why else were Achura scientists the go-to research alt? I see the race limit as an easy fix preventing Alphas from using faction ships without extra coding effort. To date, there is no other restriction than skill restriction. See the Gnosis entry earlier on.
Further I see no issue with different ships in different areas and so called resistance holes. Alphas still can field passive resistance modules, and tank against the opposite of their "natural enemies", whatever that is. Doesn't prevent you from making a Caldari and hunt Caldaris and Missiles can do all damages. But it's a moot point.
Additional paid clone levels between Alpha and Omega is something I can get behind and agree with. It would be a smart business model.
I can see merit to the idea of raising the skill cap but restricting to frigates only. But it reeks too much of "anti gank" and not enough player tease to get hooked. Without a sense of progression and meaning, players won't get hooked. A bigger ship hull has more psychological effect on this gratification than another level of a skill is. It also smells like too much pvp oriented thinking. Look at highsec. If we look at EvE by the numbers, it's not a straight PvP game. You have an awful lot of mission runners too. No matter what your idea of an MMO is or how to play EvE, some people like to log in and just do a mission or two all on their own as they chat with friends and are happy.
I keep reading Safety to green for Alphas and I ask why? Trials don't have this limit. What prevents a dedicated suicide ganker to create trial accounts every day and put in skills in the queue, so he has readily available characters after a few days forever who are more than enough to wipe out ships? Nothing. Let them explore stealing from wrecks and get their ships blown up. Let them explore what happens if you shoot another ship in highsec. Suicide gankers aren't the problem. Targets of opportunity are. The only good middle ground I see is Safety to green AND yellow for trials and Alphas. Yellow still means you can engage in lowsec fights and you can steal stuff when nobody is around.
It's easy to say how people will run multiple alpha accounts despite the EULA. If you do not believe EvE is doing a good job there, will you dare and try the risk of getting all your main accounts linked to your computer permabanned because you've been caught running multiple Trials on VMs?
Let me close this post by saying I believe you have the heart at the right spot for the outlook of EvE. You seem to want to welcome the new players and be inclusive of them. Which I like. Your concerns and doubts are not unreasonable, and we all have to weigh the merits and the flaws of each idea for what they're worth. |
Kusum Fawn
Perkone Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:47:23 -
[859] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote:Why else were Achura scientists the go-to research alt?
because we could put the lowest number of attribute points into charisma of all the different starting characters. Eve alt autists who did nothing but research and copy.
Drazz Caylen wrote:What prevents a dedicated suicide ganker to create trial accounts every day and put in skills in the queue, so he has readily available characters after a few days forever who are more than enough to wipe out ships? Nothing. ... ... It's easy to say how people will run multiple alpha accounts despite the EULA.
one is forgetting the restrictions on trial accounts that are not currently listed as being on alphas.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17939
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:50:48 -
[860] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Malcanis wrote:
CCP aren't calling this "f2p". Marketing this change to your friends as an "unlimited free trial" might help, because that's what it is.
Incidentally, for those who are quitting because eve is getting unlimited free trial access, what's the longest trial account term you feel is ethical? Obviously it's at least 52 days, since we've had 51 day trials before. What's the maximum you'd accept?
Might as well make it 90 days. That seems to be a number CCP likes. Forum threads are locked after 90 days. Epic Arcs can be repeated after 90 days. DMC
So a 92 day free trial would be unacceptable to you?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
318
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:51:38 -
[861] - Quote
Brodit wrote:Okay. I'm down with the f2p aspect of this but your application of clone types is short sighted.
I have 6 chars spread over 2 accounts, and because I like to multi-box occasionally I have spent the last few years giving the alts some useful skills. Cloaking/Mining/Scanning/Combat and PI (I notice that alphas cannot do PI) They have been contributing in their own way to this game, for some, as long as 10 years. Okay they are not overwhelmed with skill points ranging between 450k to 30M sps but your proposal effectively neuters them. The Primary chars will be the Omega chars by default, and the alts on each account will become Alphas. No cloaking or PI and limited everything else. Cheers.
I'm not even sure there is a work around. If alt A wants to initiate PI, do I have to change them to omega clone then set the PI. If I then log on alt B make them Omega, will it halt the PI of alt A.
If your going down this route, I want a 3rd clone state. If an account is active (plex/sub'd) *Omega and Theta clones are in effect. If an account is inactive (no plex/sub'd) clones are alpha.
Revised States
Omega clone. Active skill training. All Skills. Theta clone. No skill training. All Skills. Alpha clone. Reduced skill training. Reduced skills.
That is all.
i think you have misunderstood
ccp calling them alpha and omega clones is actually incorrect and may cause confusion
its actually alpha and omega accounts not clones
in otherwords
an unsubbed/nonplexed account is alpha - limited skills on all toons linked to the account
a subbed/plexed account is omega - unlimited skills on all toons linked to the account
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17942
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:55:46 -
[862] - Quote
Ledo Hashur wrote:A suggestion... consider sharding the game..... an Alpha shard and an Omega shard. That would certainly satisfy all the naysayers, such as myself.
Frightened of the competition...?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Juvenius Drakonius
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 11:57:18 -
[863] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:Juvenius Drakonius wrote: be able to make cynos?
This is too big of a change for a simple post in a blog/forum this the biggest game shift since capitals where introduced, this needs special attention.....please more info, more details
the amount of ppl that comments without bothering to read the devblog is astonishing - there are two thing STRAIGHTLY mentioned in a blog that alpha clone WON'T be able to do - traiing up [and using] cynos and cloacking devices EDIT: Cinders Tekitsu wrote:instead of pausing training because of an omega skill, skip it, and move down the list to the first alpha trainable skill and carry on. if you get to the end of the list with nothing trainable then pause it. you could also bring back the old training queue for alphas (24 hour window)... forcing them to log in "every day" to continue their training. that alone might be enough to make it too inconvenient to create a 1 person fleet of 50 alpha clones
hmmm as it was not mentioned I though that alphas will follow trial mechanics here - all skills scheduled in the que must start within 24h window from the point of scheduling
This is the biggest change in EVE social mechanics since sov was introduced, this for all players. Its not a simple re-balancing of ship dps/tank.....this is fundamentally a change that can impact the long investment that many players have made in EVE....since in a way the appeal to EVE was its exclusiveness, its hard game play and in a way its social niche.....this is too big of a SHIFT in EVE just to make it a simple forum post.......THIS IS A TOWN hall meeting in need.
There is no shame in saying you don't know something, and there is no glory in keeping knolege to yourself.
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David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
318
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:05:19 -
[864] - Quote
if this goes ahead jf/freighter runs will get expensive real fast.
imagine uedema to niarja full of alpha account gankers. no freighter/jf will get through
step 1 bump freighter/jf
step 2 gank webber
step 3 gank freighter jf
lol
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
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Andre Vauban
Aideron Robotics
454
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:07:32 -
[865] - Quote
After thinking about this some more, I really think 99.9% of the issues with this idea revolve around people abusing alpha clones to scale alts in ways that haven't been thought out yet.
The way to solve this is to limit the number of alpha accounts belonging to a single human that can be simultaneously logged in to one. The problem here is that people are clever and just using a simple 1 account per PC check isn't sufficient in the days of people having multiple computers and VMs and containers (the real scary one because containers scale much better).
The way to achieve this is really to tie all characters to a human being (name, credit card number, street address, mobile phone number, etc). Make alpha players pay 1 USD/EUR via credit card to verify they are a real person. Make players do mobile phone verification via SMS text messages. Etc, etc, etc.
Then, completely scrap the concept of having multiple accounts. Every human gets exactly 1 account. This new account can have an unlimited number of alpha characters on it (or some large limit that CCP sets for database reasons). The new account also gets the ability to log in a single alpha character (ie 1 simultaneous login). Whenever you purchase a monthly subscription (plex, time card, monthly fee) you get the following: designate 3 characters on your account that are upgraded to omega clone and you get +1 simultaneous logins for omega clones. You can let people remap which characters are omega clones using a timer similar to the attribute remap timer.
Then update the EULA to make it a perma-ban offense for for any human to attempt to have more than 1 Eve online account. The only issue here would be when multiple people in the same household play Eve and in that case there are minors involved so some extra verification is warranted anyway. Also update the EULA to make it a temp ban offense to use alpha clones to circumvent criminal timers or do anything else that you don't want people creating armies of alpha characters for.
If you do this, then you really nip this problem in the bud. NOBODY will attempt to circumvent the 1 account per person problem for fear of getting all their character banned.
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David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
318
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:12:17 -
[866] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:After thinking about this some more, I really think 99.9% of the issues with this idea revolve around people abusing alpha clones to scale alts in ways that haven't been thought out yet.
The way to solve this is to limit the number of alpha accounts belonging to a single human that can be simultaneously logged in to one. The problem here is that people are clever and just using a simple 1 account per PC check isn't sufficient in the days of people having multiple computers and VMs and containers (the real scary one because containers scale much better).
The way to achieve this is really to tie all characters to a human being (name, credit card number, street address, mobile phone number, etc). Make alpha players pay 1 USD/EUR via credit card to verify they are a real person. Make players do mobile phone verification via SMS text messages. Etc, etc, etc.
Then, completely scrap the concept of having multiple accounts. Every human gets exactly 1 account. This new account can have an unlimited number of alpha characters on it (or some large limit that CCP sets for database reasons). The new account also gets the ability to log in a single alpha character (ie 1 simultaneous login). Whenever you purchase a monthly subscription (plex, time card, monthly fee) you get the following: designate 3 characters on your account that are upgraded to omega clone and you get +1 simultaneous logins for omega clones. You can let people remap which characters are omega clones using a timer similar to the attribute remap timer.
.
i have multiple paid accounts as do many players. by doing what you suggest you would end up killing off all our paid alt accounts, years of training have gone into them.
no to this. just limit alpha accounts like they do trial accounts only 1 per computer.
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
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Andre Vauban
Aideron Robotics
455
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:16:43 -
[867] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:Andre Vauban wrote:After thinking about this some more, I really think 99.9% of the issues with this idea revolve around people abusing alpha clones to scale alts in ways that haven't been thought out yet.
The way to solve this is to limit the number of alpha accounts belonging to a single human that can be simultaneously logged in to one. The problem here is that people are clever and just using a simple 1 account per PC check isn't sufficient in the days of people having multiple computers and VMs and containers (the real scary one because containers scale much better).
The way to achieve this is really to tie all characters to a human being (name, credit card number, street address, mobile phone number, etc). Make alpha players pay 1 USD/EUR via credit card to verify they are a real person. Make players do mobile phone verification via SMS text messages. Etc, etc, etc.
Then, completely scrap the concept of having multiple accounts. Every human gets exactly 1 account. This new account can have an unlimited number of alpha characters on it (or some large limit that CCP sets for database reasons). The new account also gets the ability to log in a single alpha character (ie 1 simultaneous login). Whenever you purchase a monthly subscription (plex, time card, monthly fee) you get the following: designate 3 characters on your account that are upgraded to omega clone and you get +1 simultaneous logins for omega clones. You can let people remap which characters are omega clones using a timer similar to the attribute remap timer.
. i have multiple paid accounts as do many players. by doing what you suggest you would end up killing off all our paid alt accounts, years of training have gone into them. no to this. just limit alpha accounts like they do trial accounts only 1 per computer.
I wasn't clear, let people that currently have multiple accounts role all those accounts into a single one of the new accounts. I have 4 accounts myself. ie when the transition occurs mark all current accounts as "old style". "Old style" accounts are no longer allowed to log into the game. However, a player can migrate all the characters (and game time) from an "old style" account to the "new style" accounts.
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Yarosara Ruil
567
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:20:03 -
[868] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:I wasn't clear, let people that currently have multiple accounts role all those accounts into a single one of the new accounts. I have 4 accounts myself.
But that would mean you'd be able to login on several characters in the same account. which would render your little thought experiment moot, and cost CCP a bundle in subscription fees.
That's textbook dumb as far as I can tell. |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
319
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:22:29 -
[869] - Quote
CCP please add entoising mods to the list of banned skills for alpha accounts. it would break sov mechanics so badly.
the abuse of having thousands of alpha accounts training to entosis would make it impossible for anyone to hold sov.
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
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Andre Vauban
Aideron Robotics
456
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:26:33 -
[870] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:Andre Vauban wrote:I wasn't clear, let people that currently have multiple accounts role all those accounts into a single one of the new accounts. I have 4 accounts myself. But that would mean you'd be able to login on several characters in the same account. which would render your little thought experiment moot, and cost CCP a bundle in subscription fees. That's textbook dumb as far as I can tell.
Huh? You only get to log in more than one character at a time if you pay for the equivalent of a monthly subscription. (ie you pay the equivalent of 1 monthly subscription = you get to log on 1 omega character at a time; you pay the equivalent of 2 monthly subscriptions = you get to log on 2 omega characters at a time; etc; plus everybody always gets the ability to log on a single alpha clone).
The whole point was the ability to hard force it that no single human can ever log on more than one alpha clone at a time. The only way to do this is to verify which person owns every character. This is really hard to do when people can have multiple accounts and it isn't clear which accounts are owned by the same person.
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
638
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:27:21 -
[871] - Quote
I was thinking about this on the commute this morning, and one of the common concerns I've seen voiced in the thread was regarding warp core stabbed Alphas in FW complexes. Why not disable the ability to use warp core stabs on Alpha characters?
Most Alpha characters and ships will be unable to insta-warp (it's doable on a few ships for a few of them, but most will be unable to, and for those that can be made to insta-warp, you can't really achieve it while having warp core stabs fit, as well), and they'll still have access to the Venture, but it's impossible to fit the Venture to insta-warp and since it will show up on DScan, it provide a known variable when considering whether or not you should bother trying to go after someone in a plex.
It won't stop the Alpha characters from participating in FW (either via combat or farming), but it would make them counterable in that you would have a viable chance to catch and kill them instead of simply having them warp off.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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CoffinQueen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:28:07 -
[872] - Quote
FTP is a great idea and long overdue. CCPlease dont listen to the whiners, just make it happen. Bigger flaws can be corrected later and smaller ones will make the game more lively Oh, and dont forget to add a big publicity campaign. |
Andre Vauban
Aideron Robotics
456
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:31:09 -
[873] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:I was thinking about this on the commute this morning, and one of the common concerns I've seen voiced in the thread was regarding warp core stabbed Alphas in FW complexes. Why not disable the ability to use warp core stabs on Alpha characters?
Most Alpha characters and ships will be unable to insta-warp (it's doable on a few ships for a few of them, but most will be unable to, and for those that can be made to insta-warp, you can't really achieve it while having warp core stabs fit, as well), and they'll still have access to the Venture, but it's impossible to fit the Venture to insta-warp and since it will show up on DScan, it provide a known variable when considering whether or not you should bother trying to go after someone in a plex.
It won't stop the Alpha characters from participating in FW (either via combat or farming), but it would make them counterable in that you would have a viable chance to catch and kill them instead of simply having them warp off.
This is only really a problem if a person can use multiple alpha clones at the same time. If CCP restricts 1 simultaneous alpha clone login per human being, this problem goes away.
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Volstruis
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:43:44 -
[874] - Quote
Here's another spin.
I have paid CCP in cash for my 84 odd million SP.
Why can't I just use what I've paid for?
Just don't let me train further in Alpha state. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1203
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:45:23 -
[875] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Yes, on average you can pay for your sub, but the problem with averages is that some months you won't and you'll shell out nearly $1500 to keep the game going.
you still can't remember plex exist, even in a post where you discusses plex
this is really amazing how badly you want to not be wrong
unfortunately for you, today is just like any other day, a day filled with you both metaphorically and literally faceplanting left and right |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
46
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:45:56 -
[876] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:If one would only read the Dev blog like one was suggesting to others, one would know that the screaming you hear from people talking about alpha swarms is not entirely unfounded. You just quoted it yourself. Let me repeat;
Dev Blog wrote:A: We have not decided whether the simultaneous log on restrictions from the current trial system will apply to Alpha Clones. The decision will partly depend on your feedback, as well as our technical investigations over the coming months. You have to really understand what has been said. This does NOT permit multiple Alphas despite a lack of definite restriction. Yet. The emphasis in their train of thought is based on trial limitation instead of subscription freedom. This puts in the notion they lean towards restriction and not mutliboxing. This further infers they ponder if they will keep it as restricted or make it a little bit more loose, with a limited amount of Alphas at the same time, or many Omegas and one Alpha. While reading between the lines is important, it was completely unjustified to construe this section as "OMFG they will allow unlimited Alpha accounts!!!!!11!!!1!!1!1oneleven" Any and all arguments dooming a game based on this notion - which is not even remotely proven to be decided - are not helping at all and need to be called out.
If people want to voice their concern, they should do it, albeit taking multiboxing Alphas as future fact is a hyperbole.
Now let me address the Alpha swarm again, and why it is bogus;
- If the only concern is suicide ganking, then you can be damn sure CCP will drop the hammer on them. There is no swarm of trial accounts killing ships in highsec. Suicide ganking ships are exclusively subscriptions. If CCP loses these ganker subscriptions because gankers can just as well go Alpha and stay there, CCP will go as the money flows and turn to protect their paying customers which fly are mining Barges and Exhumers.
- Go grab the most common suicide ganker ships and put them into EFT and compare the damage numbers to what an Alpha can field. Then math up how many Alpha ships are needed extra to field a proper gank. Not even all ganker ships are destroyers. Look at the Talos. That's not possible for Alpha accounts.
- Furthermore, I'd like to point out how in the past there was a limit on trial accounts allowed online on Tranquility at 1500. CCP can decide to limit Alpha characters in parallel and if they see how the allocated slots are taken up by gankers who are taking space away for possible customers, they will act accordingly.
- If we get 1 Alpha + X Omegas making every Ganking player +1 stronger then the easiest way would be Safety restriction to yellow. Done.
- Venture mining swarms. Again, take EFT, math out how many Ventures it takes to match the yield of a common Mining Barge / Exhumer. This is how many Alphas it takes.
- T1 Alpha combat swarms. Your point? If you say the poor will use hordes of multiboxed Alphas and beat the rich, then the rich will laugh at you because they have better computers than the poor and can multibox even harder than the poor as they stack even more Alpha accounts on top of their Omega accounts. And? The fights are bigger, and the chances for actual new players to be involved there is higher too. Because if the vets multibox throwaway Alphas, why not take some real Alphas with you too? Same goes for the above mining point. If you can have free ventures on top of your subscribed alts in your belt, why shouldn't you use them?
- Any argument which says more Alphas means more combat alts and more Alphas means more mining ships... can't do math. The increased mining output would be eaten up by the increased ship production. Most rocks are still in nullsec.
Let's summarize: take the average amount of ganking ships and Ventures required to do the same as one subscription character can with access to better ships and skills and equipment. As long as the Multibox Alpha limit is below that, who cares. I'm still convinced the limit to be 1. An optimistic outlook would be 1 Alpha beside X Omegas.
If CCP wants new players but the vets abuse the system in a way it conflicts with CCPs marketing, changes will roll out faster than you would ever believe. And this is the ultimate reason why we're not going to see unlimited or barely limited Alpha accounts. They WILL be strongly limited. There is no way around it. Game mechanics may change, but if the game becomes TiDi everywhere because there are ten times as many Alphas as there are Omegas online, this is the worst reputation for the game. Worse than any gameplay change they can make. If you can't even begin to play the game properly as it is unresponsive, objectively, for everyone... it's the ultimate reason to quit it.
Now please don't come to me with player online counters when you talk about money. They're meaningless in this regard. Players online do not necessarily reflect the amounts of subscriptions running, and neither do players online reflect the amount of money generated by microtransactions. Unless CCP publishes data, which they won't, this argument is worthless as it is pure speculation, spindoctored to fit the rhetoric. I think there have been fiscal reports floating around though, and they're not writing negative numbers.
If player counters were representative of CCP's equity, then we wouldn't see such a content schedule and neither would we be seeing hardware upgrades. A company for an MMO which goes not well has less content stretched over longer periods of time, has staff layoffs left and right, and takes down server hardware. To my knowledge, CCP has not just purchased new hardware, but will be continuing to use the old hardware on top of it. This adds maintenance and power cost. A company which doesn't do well wouldn't do this. |
Velores Prokhozai
WARP Mechanics Fidelas Constans
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:48:21 -
[877] - Quote
I want to ask all those lowsec fw true gf pewpeers who are complaining aboun warpstabs, did you ever tried to fit triple scramblers to catch all those ****** frigates that are farming LP so you can get awesome 500k isk killmail and awesome killmark on your hull? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1203
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:55:37 -
[878] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Also claims of mineral prices crashing are highly over wrought as well. Sure it might happen, but considering that mineral prices and the economy were fine back when we had a peak of 50,000 players logged in, I doubt this is going to suddenly change. It might, but those predicting this have absolutely no evidence and are just resorting to absurd claims.
One of the key aspects of this is how many new players will there be as a result of this? 25,000 logged in? Great, we'll go back to where we were about 2-3 years ago. Will this mean economic catastrophe? Don't be so fecking absurd. Back in 2013 the average PCU was 48,000. The average PCU now? 20,000. So all the hystronics about T1 production, minerals and the like are just simply bullshit. Literally bullshit. Lies spewed by people who are ignorant and do not know what they are talking about.
With more players there will also be an increased demand for T1 modules and ships. Therefore, there will also be more demand for minerals. There will also likely be more ships destroyed meaning which is also good for ship, module and mineral demand.
Anyone who thinks more players in game is bad is a complete blinkered moron. The claims of catastrophe are also wildly exaggerated claims based on outlers and non-standard behavior as if it were the norm. Now, could this be bad? Sure it could. But I have yet to see a claim that is not based on histrionics and nonsense. reminder: this guy can't remember plex exist for longer than ten seconds
the particular reality that our loser of the intellectual lottery here is missing, of course, is that alpha clones will have very low demand for minerals because they can only fly low level ships: they can and will easily outproduce and outmine the minute amount of extra demand they add, pcu counts are obviously irrelevant since its the balance of production and demand that matters
t1 production is extra-dead as there is literally no cost whatsoever to going wide, you have as many free t1 production lines as you want |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
46
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:55:39 -
[879] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Drazz Caylen wrote:Why else were Achura scientists the go-to research alt? because we could put the lowest number of attribute points into charisma of all the different starting characters. Eve alt autists who did nothing but research and copy. No. Because Achura scientists started with the skill requirement on level 5 to add even more research slots with barely any wait. Achuras have been chosen for their lowest charisma skill in general over many other bloodlines, but Achura Scientist alts specifically were chosen for their ability to research more and earlier than any other combination.
Kusum Fawn wrote:one is forgetting the restrictions on trial accounts that are not currently listed as being on alphas. Please regard the post I just made above. The restrictions are being pondered with the implication to be limited like Trial accounts. This is telling as it is not based on pondering to have them free as Omega accounts. Neither of this confirms the status of multiboxing Alphas, which is the entire base of argument for some. They argue based on a speculation and throw tantrums based on a speculation and doom the game based on a speculation. If I haven't heard that before somewhere
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Velores Prokhozai
WARP Mechanics Fidelas Constans
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 12:56:42 -
[880] - Quote
Volstruis wrote:Here's another spin.
I have paid CCP in cash for my 84 odd million SP.
Why can't I just use what I've paid for?
Just don't let me train further in Alpha state.
Oh its about half of year pass, and somebody still didn't get how things works.
Your character gets about 1.5mil SP per month - you can fill 3 skill extractors with it, and then sell them on market for 600mil each, you will get 1800mil isk = 1100mil for one plex + 700mil to buy 3 extractors for the next month
You see it, it's free to play this game if you do not want to learn skill. |
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1206
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:01:09 -
[881] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote:Please regard the post I just made above. The restrictions are being pondered with the implication to be limited like Trial accounts. This is telling as it is not based on pondering to have them free as Omega accounts. Neither of this confirms the status of multiboxing Alphas, which is the entire base of argument for some. They argue based on a speculation and throw tantrums based on a speculation and doom the game based on a speculation. If I haven't heard that before somewhere i will deign to explain to you why you're an idiot: since multiboxing has not been explicitly prohibited in the devblog, people are telling ccp they need to explicitly prohibit multiboxing of alpha accounts, because very, very frequently these obvious things are missed even when ccp is told repeatedly about them (e.g. entosis links on interceptors)
explaining over and over the ways that allowing alphas to be multiboxed will continue until ccp, and not some fawning idiot, says they're going to apply the trial account multiboxing restriction to alphas |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
46
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:04:39 -
[882] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:CCP please add entoising mods to the list of banned skills for alpha accounts. it would break sov mechanics so badly. the abuse of having thousands of alpha accounts training to entosis would make it impossible for anyone to hold sov. Come again please? Entosis Link requires the skill Infomorph Psychology. The current list in the devblog does not show Infomorph Psychology. You ask for something that has already been taken care of in the devblog. |
Shaddn Arakh
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:05:19 -
[883] - Quote
Volstruis wrote:Here's another spin.
I have paid CCP in cash for my 84 odd million SP.
Why can't I just use what I've paid for?
Just don't let me train further in Alpha state. Under current system, you stop paying = you stop playing. Under new system, you stop paying = you can still play with t1 frigs and cruisers or at least log in to shuffle stuff in containers around and insult people in local.
So the new system is more permissive than the old one. And you're complaining? You want Eve to go more free to play than it is already going to? |
Volstruis
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:06:40 -
[884] - Quote
Velores Prokhozai wrote:Volstruis wrote:Here's another spin.
I have paid CCP in cash for my 84 odd million SP.
Why can't I just use what I've paid for?
Just don't let me train further in Alpha state. Oh its about half of year pass, and somebody still didn't get how things works. Your character gets about 1.5mil SP per month - you can fill 3 skill extractors with it, and then sell them on market for 600mil each, you will get 1800mil isk = 1100mil for one plex + 700mil to buy 3 extractors for the next month You see it, it's free to play this game if you do not want to learn skill.
Cool. I have no idea what those things are. Just subbed again yesterday.
|
Memphis Baas
1975
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:08:07 -
[885] - Quote
We imagine that all the alphas will go gank people.
CCP probably imagines that all the alphas will go mine, so they can function as self-replenishing unlimited-resource targets for the veteran PVP'er omegas.
Wolves need sheep, and sheep hate being sheep. Well, now it's free.
I think CCP should reduce the limitations of what alphas can do, as far as mining. Let them go crazy with exhumers, let them experience CODE and/or PVP, maybe they join the game or start a sub in order to train combat ships to fight back. |
Volstruis
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:09:42 -
[886] - Quote
Shaddn Arakh wrote:Volstruis wrote:Here's another spin.
I have paid CCP in cash for my 84 odd million SP.
Why can't I just use what I've paid for?
Just don't let me train further in Alpha state. Under current system, you stop paying = you stop playing. Under new system, you stop paying = you can still play with t1 frigs and cruisers or at least log in to shuffle stuff in containers around and insult people in local. So the new system is more permissive than the old one. And you're complaining? You want Eve to go more free to play than it is already going to?
I stopped playing because I don't feel like the game is worth money anymore. Telling me I can login and can't even fit a PVP condor isn't going to suddenly inspire me to play at all. If Alpha clones at least allowed reasonable PVP fits on frigs I'd be in, and plex my assets. Currently as a vet, I couldn't really give a crap about flying Herons in high sec.
Having to blow a plex like I did on 'checking out' how things are going is exactly what I could use Alpha for later. So far it isn't inspiring me to stay. Which seems to miss the point. |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
319
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:10:14 -
[887] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:
I think CCP should reduce the limitations of what alphas can do, as far as mining. Let them go crazy with exhumers, let them experience CODE and/or PVP, maybe they join the game or start a sub in order to train combat ships to fight back.
no alpha account exumers would just see a rise in botting in null sec.
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
|
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
319
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:12:16 -
[888] - Quote
Volstruis wrote:
I stopped playing because I don't feel like the game is worth money anymore. Telling me I can login and can't even fit a PVP condor isn't going to suddenly inspire me to do so ...
Having to blow a plex like I did on 'checking out' how things are going is exactly what I could use Alpha for later. So far it isn't inspiring me to stay. Which seems to miss the point.
lol you could take up ganking for free
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
|
Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
24
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:17:14 -
[889] - Quote
This will going to end +ís DUST 514. In the begining we are going to see not new players but tons of new alphas belonging to omegas ingame, then some of that omegas will become alphas too, and in the meanwhile new players are the same, they come and they go faster then they came, after 2 years the alphas will vanish or CCP decides to end up with alphas like she did with DUST 514.
The problem is not and never was F2P, new players try the game and leave faster then they came because CCP allows that and promote that. There are ways to prevent things like that, but CCP prefer not to face the reality and keep on the wrong way over and over again.
We will see what happens, time uses to be a good advicer, but CCP is like a broken clock, at least is right twice a day....
|
Judaa K'Marr
Power-Hug Training Bootcamp
31
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:18:39 -
[890] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:CCP aren't calling this "f2p". Marketing this change to your friends as an "unlimited free trial" might help, because that's what it is.
Incidentally, for those who are quitting because eve is getting unlimited free trial access, what's the longest trial account term you feel is ethical? Obviously it's at least 52 days, since we've had 51 day trials before. What's the maximum you'd accept?
Except it's being marketed everywhere as free to play.
So essentially it's a bait and switch scheme.....k |
|
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
104
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:23:33 -
[891] - Quote
I can understand that even if Alpha accounts don't pay to upgrade to Omega, it will br a good thing to have more players in space.
But I can guarantee these Alpha toons will be farmed in low/null. Players who can survive and thrive long term in hostile space in Alpha limited toons will be exceptiom rather than norms, unless they are affiliated with existing eve bets.
So great, there may be 1,000 new Alpha toons venturing into hostile spaces, what do you think the existing Snaked Garmur pilots with faction gears will do to them? Insta lock Svipuls will eat them for breakfast. They may have taste of fun in the beginning especially they get to pew pew with other Alpha toons, but realistically, they will get pwned so hard on regular basis the fun will wear off.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
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|
Zerzzes Markarian
Andraste.
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:29:10 -
[892] - Quote
Great Idea!
Just a few thoughts:
1) Since this is intended to attract new players, it shouldn't be allowed to login more than one Alpha at the same time (like it is now with trail accounts)
2) Make sure the Alpha skills are not extractable to avaoid skill point farms. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2965
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:35:37 -
[893] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:Please drop the safety idea. It is really a bad one. An army of free alts is not a high-sec problem; it is a general problem in all areas of space.
There should be a limit on only being able to log in one alpha and no alpha and omega together like on trial accounts. I have come around to this way of thinking. Red safety gameplay is one of the unique features of eve and new players should be allowed to try it. Just limit concurrent alpha account logins.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
May'n Nome
Elements Arpeggio Vesperia
27
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:36:12 -
[894] - Quote
Judaa K'Marr wrote:Malcanis wrote:CCP aren't calling this "f2p". Marketing this change to your friends as an "unlimited free trial" might help, because that's what it is.
Incidentally, for those who are quitting because eve is getting unlimited free trial access, what's the longest trial account term you feel is ethical? Obviously it's at least 52 days, since we've had 51 day trials before. What's the maximum you'd accept?
Except it's being marketed everywhere as free to play. So evidently CCP called it free-to-play on the press release, at least. So essentially it's a bait and switch scheme.....
Hi, you must be new to online journalism. Which would get your view and interest in a article for a Headline if you were not an EVE Player and were looking through those various publications online for gaming news?
A) "EVE introduces Clone States" B) "EVE goes free-to-play"
"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
|
Judaa K'Marr
Power-Hug Training Bootcamp
32
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:43:33 -
[895] - Quote
May'n Nome wrote:Judaa K'Marr wrote:Malcanis wrote:CCP aren't calling this "f2p". Marketing this change to your friends as an "unlimited free trial" might help, because that's what it is.
Incidentally, for those who are quitting because eve is getting unlimited free trial access, what's the longest trial account term you feel is ethical? Obviously it's at least 52 days, since we've had 51 day trials before. What's the maximum you'd accept?
Except it's being marketed everywhere as free to play. So evidently CCP called it free-to-play on the press release, at least. So essentially it's a bait and switch scheme..... Hi, you must be new to online journalism. Which would get your view and interest in a article for a Headline if you were not an EVE Player and were looking through those various publications online for gaming news? A) "EVE introduces Clone States" B) "EVE goes free-to-play"
Sure, but still goes against "CCP did not call it free to play". Otherwise they would print "eve introduces unlimited trial" headlines.
Whether the whole thing works, time will tell. Apparently though bait and switch is needed to promote eve now. |
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
83
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:44:04 -
[896] - Quote
8+ year EVE vet here (consistently subscribed - no breaks except casual). I have talked to my casual EVE friends and they are all very excited about this too.
I have read ALL 44 pages here and the dev blog (Confirmed again...Alphas will NOT be able to use cloak or cyno :)
Here is my take and some of theirs:
1) I generally love/like the idea of fresh blood. I think this is an elegant EVE solution to broadening game involvement. You have full pay, PLEX to pay (for people who don't mind working or are smart enough in game) and now F2P for neither. It does seem to water down the work vets put in as you are enabling a lot of scrubs to grief or muddy the water, but I am willing to trade that for the possible new players that will add life, fun, and creativity to the game through diversity. Just like life. I am willing to subsidize some other people's free for the value they add long term (cannon fodder!) :)
2) It helps the EVE learning curve and the bulldozer of bodies that it is. It is great for socializing and keeping up on things but not giving away the keys to the kingdom....sort of....
which brings me to what I DON'T like and I WORRY ABOUT.
1) Trolling...Trolling...Trolling. Huge fleets of catalysts in hi-sec. Entosis griefing. Faction Warfare hurt some (because at some point even T1 fit frigates can take down an experienced player in a better ship. But this may work itself out in new corps.) Alts parked in wormholes and every null system wasting my time because it is FREE. Now maybe with the new SOV structures this won't be as big of a problem in null/WH's but hi-sec scrub life seems to be loving this one.
2) I would mention it being harder for CEO's to vet players with this as the abundance of trolls goes up (theft etc) but I have been spouting off about this for years on this forum (as have many others) and it is very apparent CCP doesn't care to help with this. Take it for what it is worth. I don't mind EVE being cruel and dark...in fact I like it dark...but I can't say I enjoy not being able to allow some form of trust like in RL as simple as loaning someone an asset without the worry they will launder that character irrespective of their own account and it doesn't follow them in some form. I.e. there truly is no frontier justice.
3) PLEX prices. I guess you really do not want people using PLEX. I have a feeling this is just going to drive prices past 3 billion.
4) Don't let them create corps. FORCE them to assimilate and learn from the OMEGAs!!! If you let them go create their own Alpha corps all it will do is create a separation and probably increase griefing/ lame war decs.
5) Please advertise the living $#@% out of this so we can truly get word of mouth out there about EVE. IF you are doing this, go all in. Get EVE out there.
6) The Gnosis - make that ship have a req of BC1 please.
7) Let Alpha's train other races I think... I like the lore aspect as advertised, but maybe this should be opened up to open up more of the game without them having to make another account or toon.
8) Minor - Running out of names! As cosmetic as this is, how many variations of Jean luc picard can we have?
Last thoughts....
I would love to see Alpha permadeath or limited to 10 reclones before they have to buy an Omega for at least one cycle to reset the counter back to 10. Make them like slaves in lore to our Omega. haha
Cheers and flame on |
George Gouillot
Black Fox Marauders
114
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:45:22 -
[897] - Quote
This is only the beginning.
What will follow:
- Beta clone 5,000 AUR - racial cross skill certificate 10,000 AUR - fly a Battlecruiser for a week? 3,000 AUR - T2 Weapon training certificate 15,000 AUR - summon a NPC-Titan for 1 hour 5,000 AUR (this might go too far )
Enjoy. |
MrQuisno
SteelandFire Blacksmithing
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:45:32 -
[898] - Quote
Limiting access for free accounts only to two(2). You want to use more accounts you pay the extra fee's. You should be allowed to use both free and payed accounts at the same time. |
Antei Thantonne
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:49:12 -
[899] - Quote
I look forward to the influx of new players this change will bring! EVE University--along with the many other organizations in EVE dedicated to helping new players--will work hard to create positive learning experiences for these new Alpha players. There is a long-awaited change that will help us turn these Alphas into new Omegas:
Complete re-balancing the meta 1-4 modules that new Alpha players will need most.
Learning about meta modules is currently confusing for new players, partly because of the parallel systems of re-balanced and non-re-balanced modules, and partly because the names of non-re-balanced modules are much less intuitive than re-balanced ones. This makes it difficult for these players to know what to buy. The naming situation is particularly bad for small weapons, exactly the type of items that Alpha players will be most likely to buy. In addition, the market for some of these non-re-balanced weapons makes it such that the meta 4 variants are very expensive, and meta 3 variants are occasionally more expensive than Tech 2 versions. There is nothing inherently wrong with this market situation. But it does mean that, to make smart decisions, new players need to become familiar with the inconsistent system of meta naming and marketing--a system that CCP has said it is committed to simplify.
So, simplify it already.
So far, ALL of the problems I've described above have been solved in every module re-balance that CCP has executed. Naming has become more intuitive. The market for different meta items has relaxed (by and large). In spite of CCP's stated concerns about how to set stats on these re-balanced modules, none has broken the meta. I would argue that CCP has been extremely successful in its module re-balancing efforts so far, and has also learned a lot about how to do it right. Accelerate this process! I recommend that, along with the upcoming November changes, CCP finishes re-balancing Tech I meta weapons, and especially small and medium weapons that Alpha players will be most likely to buy. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2965
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:50:40 -
[900] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I can't believe I went through and read 42 pages, liked a bunch of the replies and quoted those that mirrored my own feelings about this topic which is basically NO, NO, NO.
Maybe I'm mistaken but for some reason I seem to remember years and years ago CCP saying quite a few times that this game would never be Free to Play or Pay to Win.
Within my 8+ years of playing this game, I've seen way too many good Dev's get fired and this game has been hurting for it ever since, especially in the last couple of years. Recently it seems the term 'New Content' mainly refers to graphics being redone or needless changes to UI or implementing drastic changes to game mechanics basically placing rules and restrictions on game play, etc.
Trying to portray the topic of this Dev Blog and thread as 'New Content' is an insult since it's actually an announcement about changes to subscription policy, more importantly, it totally goes against the core aspect that this game was founded on. Course the same was said years ago about introducing Micro Transactions into the game.
Anyway, despite all the objections posted in various threads about this topic, CCP will do what they want. I won't log into the game as much as I use to do but I'll definitely keep this account subbed so my character can continue training skills. I hope CCP will soon see the folly of their ways, come back to their senses and get back to releasing game expansions that produce excellent game content. That is what gains paid subscriptions. Having that content be bug free and not break any existing content is what keeps paid subscriptions.
If not, at least I'll be able to say I was there when Eve was real.
DMC Why don't you wait for your dire prognostications to come true before quitting?
The subscription model had undoubtedly been hindering EVE's growth in recent years. The market had changed and people are much more willing to spend money for spending isk than a subscription.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
|
MrQuisno
SteelandFire Blacksmithing
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:53:01 -
[901] - Quote
George Gouillot wrote:This is only the beginning. What will follow: - Beta clone 5,000 AUR - racial cross skill certificate 10,000 AUR - fly a Battlecruiser for a week? 3,000 AUR - T2 Weapon training certificate 15,000 AUR - summon a NPC-Titan for 1 hour 5,000 AUR (this might go too far ) Enjoy.
CCP wont do this as it would kill the need for pay accounts. Point of free and paid have been clearly explained. Think of it this way the cake is the paid accounts. But you want to make it less boring looking so you buy extra's to see and do a bit more. |
Alessienne Ellecon
Solitude Rangers
61
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 13:53:26 -
[902] - Quote
Developers, watch your eating habits. The amount of salt I've seen in this thread, the EVE Facebook fan group and r/eve are going to put your sodium levels through the roof before long.
|
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1634
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:10:27 -
[903] - Quote
Judaa K'Marr wrote:Malcanis wrote:CCP aren't calling this "f2p". Marketing this change to your friends as an "unlimited free trial" might help, because that's what it is.
Incidentally, for those who are quitting because eve is getting unlimited free trial access, what's the longest trial account term you feel is ethical? Obviously it's at least 52 days, since we've had 51 day trials before. What's the maximum you'd accept?
Except it's being marketed everywhere as free to play. Evidently CCP called it free-to-play on the press release, at least. So essentially it's a bait and switch scheme.....
Why? The term free to play doesn't refer to anything other than "you don't have to pay anything before you start playing". It doesn't mean "the entire game is free have fun".
Team Fortress 2 is free to play and they have content that is only accessible trough paying for it. And many other games alongside it.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3919
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:12:02 -
[904] - Quote
OK everyone, what do you think of this:
One day of Omega clone activation: 200 Aurum.
This would be good for those who can only free up enough time for one or two play sessions a week. But I am not sure it would be good for the game.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
319
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:12:45 -
[905] - Quote
one problem i see is that the gallente alpha characters will have a slight advantage over the other 3 races when it comes to industrials.
gallente have an industrial for each type.
1. 1x for ore hold 2. 1x for pi hold 3. 2x for cargo hold 4. 1x for ammo hold
the other races do not.
will ccp introduce industrial ships to do this for each of the other 3 races to balance it out?
also will alpha accounts be able to use a noctis?
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
|
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
320
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:17:28 -
[906] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:OK everyone, what do you think of this:
One day of Omega clone activation: 200 Aurum.
This would be good for those who can only free up enough time for one or two play sessions a week. But I am not sure it would be good for the game.
no just buy a plex for omega status
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
|
Major Trant
287 Marine Regiment
1519
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:17:56 -
[907] - Quote
Can I suggest CCP simplifies the list of what skills are available to each race's Alpha Clone to the following catagories:
- Common (which has the majority that are shared between them all)
- Amarr
- Caldari
- Gallente
- Minmatar
That way people can compare the differences between each race easier. |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
25
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:19:17 -
[908] - Quote
There are good and bad free to play models out there. From blatand money grab with micro transactions to fair "only pay what you play" games. Most players fear that their game get become pay-to-win when the publisher adds a free-to-play option. I don't think EVE can get much more pay-to-win as it is now. You can buy everything but player skill and freinds and CCP made a clever system to ensure that the pay-to-win money will be payed to them :) |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
21
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:20:30 -
[909] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:one problem i see is that the gallente alpha characters will have a slight advantage over the other 3 races when it comes to industrials.
gallente have an industrial for each type.
1. 1x for ore hold 2. 1x for pi hold 3. 2x for cargo hold 4. 1x for ammo hold
the other races do not.
will ccp introduce industrial ships to do this for each of the other 3 races to balance it out?
also will alpha accounts be able to use a noctis?
I'm all for each faction receiving their own set of specialised industrial ships just as gallies have right now! |
Dread Red
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:24:54 -
[910] - Quote
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:There are good and bad free to play models out there. From blatand money grab with micro transactions to fair "only pay what you play" games. Most players fear that their game get become pay-to-win when the publisher adds a free-to-play option. I don't think EVE can get much more pay-to-win as it is now. You can buy everything but player skill and freinds and CCP made a clever system to ensure that the pay-to-win money will be payed to them :) It is after all a business for CCP even if it is recreation for us.
|
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
27
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:32:29 -
[911] - Quote
Dread Red wrote:Gregorius Goldstein wrote:There are good and bad free to play models out there. From blatand money grab with micro transactions to fair "only pay what you play" games. Most players fear that their game get become pay-to-win when the publisher adds a free-to-play option. I don't think EVE can get much more pay-to-win as it is now. You can buy everything but player skill and freinds and CCP made a clever system to ensure that the pay-to-win money will be payed to them :) It is after all a business for CCP even if it is recreation for us.
I don't mind them at all. They made a full skillpoint toons to expansive for the masses and the few that can do it would give the money to a third party/farmers if there wasn't a legit offer. |
Chan'aar
State War Academy Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:36:06 -
[912] - Quote
Seems like a lot of thought has gone into this but I would
force safety to green in high sec
&
have the same limits as a trial account, ie no alpha and omega account on the same machine / ip
Starting with these would probably save hassle in the future as I'm almost sure we (the eve playerbase) will figure out was to abuse this system. |
Dread Red
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:37:13 -
[913] - Quote
Will Alpha accounts get to vote for the CSM? I think they should only get to vote for an Alpha seat or seats on the CSM. I don't want people who are not paying what I pay directing the future choices and having the ear of CCP at the table.
Will EVE tournament play now have a cruiser and below league?
Will Alphas be allowed on the test servers?
CCP has long been the undisputed champion of unintended consequences, hopefully this time they don't mess up the entire game and fail like DUST514. |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
320
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:43:51 -
[914] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:Can I suggest CCP simplifies the list of what skills are available to each race's Alpha Clone to the following catagories:
- Common (which has the majority that are shared between them all)
- Amarr
- Caldari
- Gallente
- Minmatar
That way people can compare the differences between each race easier.
how i think alpha accounts should be restricted
1. all races can cross train so new players can get a proper taste of eve online but only upto cruiser and medium sized weapons at level 3
2. restrict the max skill level for alphas to 3 for all the primary skills - max level 5 for drone operation skill but max level 4 for all other drone related skills. cannot train heavy drones or fighters (to stop people using geckos)
3. make all t2 models require level 4 or higher
4. make all bc or larger ships require spaceship command 4
5. make all t2/t3 ships require at least 1 level 5 skill
6. mining barges/exumers/orca/freighters/jf/capitals cannot be used on alpha accounts
7. entosis, cloak, and cyno mods cannot be used on alpha accounts
8. pi is limited to level 2 command centers and level 2 inter planetary and level 2 remote sensing (max 3 pi colonies)
9. only one alpha account per computer can log in at any one time
10. alpha accounts can train mining frig 2
11. alpha accounts cannot create corporations or alliances but can join existing ones however they cannot be ceo of an existing corp or alliance.
12. alpha accounts cannot anchor structures larger than MTU or Mobile Depot
13. alpha accounts cannot assign/drones to other players
14. alpha accounts cannot do t2 invention/copy blueprints etc
15. alpha accounts cannot build t2/t3 or capital ships
16. alpha accounts cannot have more than 5 buy orders or 10 sell orders at any one time.
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
697
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:55:45 -
[915] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote: I would love to see Alpha permadeath or limited to 10 reclones before they have to buy an Omega for at least one cycle to reset the counter back to 10. Make them like slaves in lore to our Omega. haha
Some very interesting points raised there, but permadeath sounds like fun; kinda like civilians that couldn't afford a proper clone and got a flawed, degenerating one from Quark's ;-)
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Dread Red
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 14:59:56 -
[916] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:Major Trant wrote:Can I suggest CCP simplifies the list of what skills are available to each race's Alpha Clone to the following catagories:
- Common (which has the majority that are shared between them all)
- Amarr
- Caldari
- Gallente
- Minmatar
That way people can compare the differences between each race easier. how i think alpha accounts should be restricted 1. all races can cross train so new players can get a proper taste of eve online but only upto cruiser and medium sized weapons at level 3 2. restrict the max skill level for alphas to 3 for all the primary skills - max level 5 for drone operation skill but max level 4 for all other drone related skills. cannot train heavy drones or fighters (to stop people using geckos) 3. make all t2 modules require level 4 or higher 4. make all bc or larger ships require spaceship command 4 5. make all t2/t3 ships require at least 1 level 5 skill 6. mining barges/exumers/orca/freighters/jf/capitals cannot be used on alpha accounts 7. entosis, cloak, and cyno mods cannot be used on alpha accounts 8. pi is limited to level 2 command centers and level 2 inter planetary and level 2 remote sensing (max 3 pi colonies) 9. only one alpha account per computer can log in at any one time 10. alpha accounts can train mining frig 2 11. alpha accounts cannot create corporations or alliances but can join existing ones however they cannot be ceo of an existing corp or alliance. 12. alpha accounts cannot anchor structures larger than MTU or Mobile Depot 13. alpha accounts cannot assign/drones to other players 14. alpha accounts cannot do t2 invention/copy blueprints etc 15. alpha accounts cannot build t2/t3 or capital ships 16. alpha accounts cannot have more than 5 buy orders or 10 sell orders at any one time. 17. alpha accounts are forced to safety green in high sec My goodness and I thought only Amarr toons loved slavery. I think the fear that is making so many cry out for an ever expanding list of restrictions is something CCP would be foolish to accept. Forced green in high sec is contrary to the love of ganking CCP clearly has, you don't have to like reality but you should face it honestly. CCP wants a game of violent exploding spaceships by ever increasing in size fleets, it's what they have made their claim to fame on. Expecting them to lure a new crop of players in and then restrict them from helping realize that is naive at best.
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Pandora Carrollon
Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic.
646
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:05:14 -
[917] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, could you make it any more obvious how poorly the csm is treated by ccp
I'm not defending CCP here, but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet. As you can see this is a huge change for EVE. Most companies would've kept something like this under wraps until the last possible second because they needed to be certain the message got out the way they wanted to.
I'm not knocking the CSM but it's possible if they gave this to them months ago that it might leak out, no matter how accidentally, and that would've completely sent the forums and Reddit into the stratosphere. It would've been not only the real issue we are discussing, but also "CCP is backstabbing us! CCP never tells us anything! CCP is hiding things!" You couldn't have sorted the forest for the trees.
No, they did it this way, in all likelyhood to make sure the window of 'discovery' was short. At least the CSM found out first and probably gave them immediate feedback first. I'm also pretty sure CCP asked the CSM to get our feedback at that time.
FYI, this even made IGN major news and has been picked up by mainstream media. Anything this big is bound to be tightly controlled. A company that didn't do that is foolish.
8 Golden Rules of EVE GÇó EVE is entirely PvP
|
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life
321
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:05:48 -
[918] - Quote
Dread Red wrote:
My goodness and I thought only Amarr toons loved slavery. I think the fear that is making so many cry out for an ever expanding list of restrictions is something CCP would be foolish to accept. Forced green in high sec is contrary to the love of ganking CCP clearly has, you don't have to like reality but you should face it honestly. CCP wants a game of violent exploding spaceships by ever increasing in size fleets, it's what they have made their claim to fame on. Expecting them to lure a new crop of players in and then restrict them from helping realize that is naive at best.
i think its only fair that if you want to go to route of suicide ganking you should pay for the game. otherwise you drive out all the paying players that like to mine or do indy stuff in high sec
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
|
Sioux Banshee
Norse Complex Inc Wiking Were Wabbits
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:08:06 -
[919] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote: SNIP Iowa Banshee wrote:Was a reply to someone request cyno be added to list of skill ...read the posts...Sheesh I did, which didn't make your statements of supposed encouragement for a doomed idea any less ridiculous. It's still wrong and will remain wrong in regards to Alpha / Trial accounts being used as Candles. Only because they've trained the skill doesn't mean they can use it as Alpha Clone. Because they can't. They never will. And CCP won't allow it. CCP knows well enough how much they would break the game if the'd allow it. Cynosural Field Theory was never trainable on trial accounts to my knowledge, regardless of NPE iteration. For a reason.
I was right in stating that you didn't read the post ....because if you had read the thread you would have seen that I was not encouraging the idea of allowing Cyno training for Alphas but pointing out how easily it would be to abuse it.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3919
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:14:35 -
[920] - Quote
CCP, Quick question:
Will the PLEX have its name changed? After all, Alpha clones can fly a star ship, so it would seem that they do have a pilot's license. The subscription, or the "PLEX" is really an Omega use license. It seems it would be a little confusing to a new player to tell them that to use an Omega clone, they buy a pilot's license.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
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Duke Garland
Solar Vista. The Anubis Accord
23
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:16:30 -
[921] - Quote
My two cents on the new character sheet/skill window: it's uncomfortable having to tilt my head to the left every time just to read what each category icon is labeled like it is now in the WIP. Instead you might consider adapting to a pattern more towards this crude paint shop job I hammered out. It's easier to read and thus access and overall feels more natural and true to the rest of the UI. To avoid that blank space you could either have the skill categories take a pattern that best adapts to the size of the designated area in the skill window or set some hard cap numbers on the displayed rows + columns and add a scroll bar like the training queue area has. The latter solution could work better for people who don't have their character sheet consume half their game window when opened too.
Onwards while I very much like the idea of offering a "truly free" EvE you, CCP, need to be aware it'll be mainly your own, currently paying customers that will find most creative ways to eXploit alpha state clones. Some few concerns and questions of mine on that matter:
Quote:Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
A: We have not decided whether the simultaneous log on restrictions from the current trial system will apply to Alpha Clones. The decision will partly depend on your feedback, as well as our technical investigations over the coming months. I don't know what the current trial system restrictions are but some possible issues (disposable ganking fleets, Venture fleets, server load etc) can easily be avoided with the single limitation that when you log in an alpha clone you are unable to log in anything else. Basically restrict simultaneous logins strictly to omega clones and restrict alpha level clones to one per machine - not IP since I presume you could easily circumvent that with a proXy, but rather by the use some sort of hardware identification magic. (If anyone decides to invest 1500Gé¼ into additional sets of cheap desktops/laptops just to squeeze another alpha clone in that'd be fine with me, as I imagine that'd be a pain to multiboX. )
Quote:Q: Can other players see my clone state?
A: No, only you will be able to see your clone state. We think that seeing the clone state of other players would provide too much strategic value to make it public. Will that info be visible in any API check available to corp or alliance recruiters so they can get an idea of what to eXpect from an applicant?
Will alpha clones be entirely restricted to t1 modules or will they be able to use faction/deadspace/officer modules too? (Because in my opinion they shouldn't be able to use the latter groups.) The same question applies to navy grade ships, which, since you rule out pirate hulls, should also be restricted. You need baits to get them into subscribing wherever you can.
Also what about PI - let's say the alpha clone aquires a PLEX or subs for a month, then solely trains that month into PI and sets up colonies, those would be - especially in nullsec and w-space - an everlasting ISK farm unless you've the technical option to deny access to PI administration on alpha level?
Alpha clones should not be able to: cloak (didn't go through the skills list so maybe they already can't in the first place) use any module or ship that is regarded meta 5+ (ammo is fine - possible bait!) log in more than one account at any given time or combination (simultaneous logins restricted to omega only)
My biggest concern however about that DEVblog is the question about how you actually intend to entice those alphas into subscribing. EvE is a game that already requires a lot of patience, especially when it comes to skilling. Though you didn't outline how much slower an alpha clone is going to skill it'd be quite interesting to get a figure on how long it will take for one to skill to the cap (which from the skill window WIP I assume to be ~7mil SP) to properly give an opinion on this figure. Depending on implants and mapping you currently already need to skill around or even more than 4 months, if you consider treating the alpha clone as some sort of "eXtended trial" not many people will sub if they train even slower than that. ("Why bother...?" - many people) Of course you've the option to make it crystal clear on any skill you look at as an alpha to have it say "you could be [THIS MUCH] faster if you were subscribed" but I doubt it's much of a lure for people not convinced about subscribing (or aquiring a PLEX). Overall and especially if you do not restrict alpha clone login you will get an increased workload (even if you do restrict them to one alpha, just to a lesser degree) on both hardware and employees, all the while without outlining on how you actually want to lure them into subscription. A simple F2P addition on top of the eXisting subscribers could backfire hard I'm afraid and while I understand that you cannot share much info in that regard I would feel much better if you had things planned along to the clone state (and maybe elaborate just a little bit on that).
regards Duke Garland |
Dread Red
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:29:38 -
[922] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:Dread Red wrote:
My goodness and I thought only Amarr toons loved slavery. I think the fear that is making so many cry out for an ever expanding list of restrictions is something CCP would be foolish to accept. Forced green in high sec is contrary to the love of ganking CCP clearly has, you don't have to like reality but you should face it honestly. CCP wants a game of violent exploding spaceships by ever increasing in size fleets, it's what they have made their claim to fame on. Expecting them to lure a new crop of players in and then restrict them from helping realize that is naive at best.
i think its only fair that if you want to go to route of suicide ganking you should pay for the game. otherwise you drive out all the paying players that like to mine or do indy stuff in high sec . if high sec is full of free playing suicide gankers. that would only make the low sub numbers even worse. alpha accounts can still get kills in low / null / worm space without the safety restriction David, David, David..... I have to deliver some bad news here, CCP likes, wait no, Loves ganking! They love corp theft and treachery, it is how they advertise their game. Do you expect that to change?
The New Eden Cluster is a dark and dangerous place by design, plus CCP makes a profit when you have to buy a new ship. If they can't entice new players to pay to play they can get those new players to destroy stuff that has to be paid to replace. It is a good business strategy, spawned in a cold heart, but a good strategy nonetheless.
|
Oradric Cube
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:40:15 -
[923] - Quote
Q: WonGÇÖt suicide ganking using free characters be a major problem?
A: We donGÇÖt think clone states will have much impact on suicide ganking or other harassment in high-sec. But, we will be paying very close attention and if this becomes an issue we can pursue options to improve the situation such as turning safetyGÇÖs on for Alphas in high sec or making changes to the allowed skills list.
Dear CCP staff, None of us truly believe that you are actually this naive. There will, with 100% certainty, be individuals that take advantage of this opportunity to create massive multiboxing fleets constructed of mostly alpha state accounts. We all know it, and we know that you know it. We also know that your "paying close attention" won't amount to much. You are willfully ignoring this issue because you *want* this to happen. If you don't design an automated mechanism (IE max 1 alpha per IP, no red safety on alpha, etc.) for preventing abuse then it will be abused. By not automating this you accept, condone and approve of the abuse. Just admit it. |
Emilie Chatelet
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:51:40 -
[924] - Quote
Dear CCP,
I have a question. I just started playing EVE, with a paid subscription. Will I be given all of those skills for free come November? Or, should I just stop my subscription now, and wait to get them in November? |
MuraSaki Siki
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
66
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:52:04 -
[925] - Quote
i have a great concern about account hack
if login in is opened freely, those accounts with weak password, account leaks from outside, etc may increase the cases it makes a great pressure of customer services to dual with it. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3920
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:53:59 -
[926] - Quote
Emilie Chatelet wrote:Dear CCP,
I have a question. I just started playing EVE, with a paid subscription. Will I be given all of those skills for free come November? Or, should I just stop my subscription now, and wait to get them in November? Alphas do not get them automatically, they still have to be trained, and they train slower.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
339
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 15:54:08 -
[927] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:Major Trant wrote:Can I suggest CCP simplifies the list of what skills are available to each race's Alpha Clone to the following catagories:
- Common (which has the majority that are shared between them all)
- Amarr
- Caldari
- Gallente
- Minmatar
That way people can compare the differences between each race easier. how i think alpha accounts should be restricted 1. all races can cross train so new players can get a proper taste of eve online but only upto cruiser and medium sized weapons at level 3 2. restrict the max skill level for alphas to 3 for all the primary skills - max level 5 for drone operation skill but max level 4 for all other drone related skills. cannot train heavy drones or fighters (to stop people using geckos) 3. make all t2 modules require level 4 or higher 4. make all bc or larger ships require spaceship command 4 5. make all t2/t3 ships require at least 1 level 5 skill 6. mining barges/exumers/orca/freighters/jf/capitals cannot be used on alpha accounts 7. entosis, cloak, and cyno mods cannot be used on alpha accounts 8. pi is limited to level 2 command centers and level 2 inter planetary and level 2 remote sensing (max 3 pi colonies) 9. only one alpha account per computer can log in at any one time 10. alpha accounts can train mining frig 2 11. alpha accounts cannot create corporations or alliances but can join existing ones however they cannot be ceo of an existing corp or alliance. 12. alpha accounts cannot anchor structures larger than MTU or Mobile Depot 13. alpha accounts cannot assign/drones to other players 14. alpha accounts cannot do t2 invention/copy blueprints etc 15. alpha accounts cannot build t2/t3 or capital ships 16. alpha accounts cannot have more than 5 buy orders or 10 sell orders at any one time. 17. alpha accounts are forced to safety green in high sec (however accepting a duel or can baiting is allowed) You didnt read the dev blog did you? Most of your points were covered or otherwise made pointless by the dev blog.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5175
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:06:43 -
[928] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:if this goes ahead jf/freighter runs will get expensive real fast.
imagine uedema to niarja full of alpha account gankers. no freighter/jf will get through
step 1 bump freighter/jf
step 2 gank webber
step 3 gank freighter jf
lol
With a JF you jump over Uedama. Problem solved. That's what I do.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:13:32 -
[929] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:Major Trant wrote:Can I suggest CCP simplifies the list of what skills are available to each race's Alpha Clone to the following catagories:
- Common (which has the majority that are shared between them all)
- Amarr
- Caldari
- Gallente
- Minmatar
That way people can compare the differences between each race easier. how i think alpha accounts should be restricted 1. all races can cross train so new players can get a proper taste of eve online but only upto cruiser and medium sized weapons at level 3 2. restrict the max skill level for alphas to 3 for all the primary skills - max level 5 for drone operation skill but max level 4 for all other drone related skills. cannot train heavy drones or fighters (to stop people using geckos) 3. make all t2 modules require level 4 or higher 4. make all bc or larger ships require spaceship command 4 5. make all t2/t3 ships require at least 1 level 5 skill 6. mining barges/exumers/orca/freighters/jf/capitals cannot be used on alpha accounts 7. entosis, cloak, and cyno mods cannot be used on alpha accounts 8. pi is limited to level 2 command centers and level 2 inter planetary and level 2 remote sensing (max 3 pi colonies) 9. only one alpha account per computer can log in at any one time 10. alpha accounts can train mining frig 2 11. alpha accounts cannot create corporations or alliances but can join existing ones however they cannot be ceo of an existing corp or alliance. 12. alpha accounts cannot anchor structures larger than MTU or Mobile Depot 13. alpha accounts cannot assign/drones to other players 14. alpha accounts cannot do t2 invention/copy blueprints etc 15. alpha accounts cannot build t2/t3 or capital ships 16. alpha accounts cannot have more than 5 buy orders or 10 sell orders at any one time. 17. alpha accounts are forced to safety green in high sec (however accepting a duel or can baiting is allowed)
So you don't want them able to do basically anything? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5175
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:15:34 -
[930] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Yes, on average you can pay for your sub, but the problem with averages is that some months you won't and you'll shell out nearly $1500 to keep the game going.
you still can't remember plex exist, even in a post where you discusses plex this is really amazing how badly you want to not be wrong unfortunately for you, today is just like any other day, a day filled with you both metaphorically and literally faceplanting left and right
So only the super rich in game can do it. Okay, so we have yet another outlier concern. And in the end you are going to make a small amount of ISK (relatively speaking) since most of what you make will go towards subbing the accounts.
Next stupid concern.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1710
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:20:48 -
[931] - Quote
There's been some absolutely horrible posts so far, mainly due to ignorance (people clearly not reading for devblog) or just some extremely convulated explanations of how this will kill eve (one particular favourite was how it was going to harm the skill injector market).
Overall I think only three valid concerns have been raised throughout this almost 50 page shitfest ( honestly I thought the eve forum community was smarter than what has been demonstrated here):
1. Simultaneous account logging.
2. Safety settings.
3. Chat limitations.
I'm not going to debunk or explain to any of you that might think you have other valid concerns (spoiler: you don't) as it's already been done multiple times.
This is not 'F2P', this is an update to the current trial system to encourage more subscriptions and also retain current subscriptions.
Most people who actually play this game and make active contributions to it should have a problem with more players entering the arena.
And to all the people crying about how f2p "killed" other games, you couldn't be further from the truth. F2p is likely what kept some games profitable after various factors caused them to be unsustainable if still on a subscription model. |
Cyrano Garjuiji
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:27:35 -
[932] - Quote
Q: What happens To my Planetary Interaction Once I change from Omega to Alpha ?
Since alpha clones do not have the skills to do planetary interaction at all. (which I think is a good thing and should stay) |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1106
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:44:06 -
[933] - Quote
I like it. Ship it.
Not today spaghetti.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4414
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:48:46 -
[934] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote: This is not 'F2P', this is an update to the current trial system to encourage more subscriptions and also retain current subscriptions.
No one seems to agree with you: http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/31/12729104/eve-online-free-to-play http://kotaku.com/eve-online-goes-free-to-play-in-november-1785996720 http://www.gamespot.com/articles/eve-online-going-free-to-play/1100-6443175/ http://www.pcworld.com/article/3113682/software/eve-onlines-going-free-to-play-after-13-subscription-only-years-of-epic-space-battles.html http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/games/eve-online/43381/eve-online-will-introduce-a-free-to-play-option
The dev blog and associated video have a lot of the word free in them as well. It's free to play, alright, it's just a super ****** version of it. That's going to make it fail to attract the people it should have attracted, and fail to retain people no change would have retained. What they've suggested is the cautious worst-of-all-possible-worlds first step into the F2P market that is in essence nothing short of outright pay to win.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
638
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:59:13 -
[935] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ms Michigan wrote: I would love to see Alpha permadeath or limited to 10 reclones before they have to buy an Omega for at least one cycle to reset the counter back to 10. Make them like slaves in lore to our Omega. haha
Some very interesting points raised there, but permadeath sounds like fun; kinda like civilians that couldn't afford a proper clone and got a flawed, degenerating one from Quark's ;-) Making that the F2P part would probably backfire, especially if you could only be podded a limited number of times.
Having a "Civilian" license however, that might be interesting. A one-time payment, perhaps, that allows for a "Civilian" account, allowing use of all non-T2 subcap ships (and all mods). You start with a maxed-out Alpha clone and can train normally from there, but if you get podded, you lose all skills down to a maxed-out Alpha clone. You're still a "Civilian" account so you can keep training up again, but pod loss is very detrimental. Of course, since they're technically not Capsuleers, they wouldn't be able to use Extractors or Injectors, either, to prevent abuse in that way.
Of course, it would be a big issue for professions that don't really need to put themselves at risk. P4 chains in highsec, research / manufacturing alts, and similar, all have very little risk if they're not being foolish. Having no restrictions would be a bit problematic in that part.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1712
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:00:08 -
[936] - Quote
You know it's a journalists job to sensationalise article headlines so that people will actually read them right?
What you classify as a 'super ****' version of f2p, I define it as something different and honestly given the initial parameters they've set here, it's literally got 0 parallels with any of the other f2p models out there.
Most of them offer unrestricted gameplay with micro transactions to enhance your experience, whether that be in the form of mundane things such as inventory space or cosmetic like skins and pets. You never really need to pay anything but sure it will be easier if you paid some cash.
This proposition from CCP however is very tranparent that YOU WILL BE LIMITED, you just don't have a time limit on how long you're limited for and you can continue having your character forever if you decide to sub or not. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5176
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:02:13 -
[937] - Quote
Emilie Chatelet wrote:Dear CCP,
I have a question. I just started playing EVE, with a paid subscription. Will I be given all of those skills for free come November? Or, should I just stop my subscription now, and wait to get them in November?
If you skill up those skills and go no further you can let your sub lapse and keep playing as an Alpha.
If you go beyond those skills and then let your sub lapse, then any skills not on the Alpha list are "blocked"--i.e. you do not get the benefit of them. So if for example you trained up to a battlecruiser, once you went Alpha you would not get the benefit of that skill and would not be able to fly a battlecruiser.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4414
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:06:37 -
[938] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:You know it's a journalists job to sensationalise article headlines so that people will actually read them right?
What you classify as a 'super ****' version of f2p, I define it as something different and honestly given the initial parameters they've set here, it's literally got 0 parallels with any of the other f2p models out there.
Most of them offer unrestricted gameplay with micro transactions to enhance your experience, whether that be in the form of mundane things such as inventory space or cosmetic like skins and pets. You never really need to pay anything but sure it will be easier if you paid some cash.
This proposition from CCP however is very tranparent that YOU WILL BE LIMITED, you just don't have a time limit on how long you're limited for and you can continue having your character forever if you decide to sub or not.
You know all of those new players that you're hoping will come play the game? They're going to be attracted by the headlines those journalists are writing. The ones that say the game is going free to play. Those wells - and all of their friends - are going to be poisoned the moment they see the incredibly glaring pay to win aspect of Eve. Defending this as "nothing more than a trial" would be fine if CCP had said they were modifying the trial program. They didn't. They said they were making people able to play Eve for free.
Again, this is a super ****** version of f2p, and this kind of cautious step will give them the worst of all possible worlds. IMO, if they're going to do this, they need to do it, and do it right. These half measures will just **** literally everyone off.
-Liang
Ed: I kinda don't want to bring professional qualifications into this, but I have been working in free to play games for quite a few years now. I see no way this turns out well.
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
23
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:09:09 -
[939] - Quote
and this is pretty much what recently pisses me off in gaming press nowadays - these people seems to ceased giving any crap about proper use of terminology - and this is not first game that introduced time limit-less trial accounts that has been called "f2p" by these
also using word "free" in a video blog does not mean EvE turning "f2p" game - because you know, the main thing about trial accesses to a software is that these trials are accessed FOR FREE
[if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"] |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1712
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:10:32 -
[940] - Quote
I agree there, concept is good, way it's been marketed is incredibly bad.
they need to damage control before it gets labelled as a scam
And 100% agree with the above. Gaming journalism is ******* terrible these days, most articles come from people who have never even played the game they are writing about and it's usually click bait with really bad research and no substance. |
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
638
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:10:38 -
[941] - Quote
It's a limited form of F2P, yes. Calling it F2P is the easiest way to get it out to the general masses, as well, with as few miscommunication issues as possible. Calling it "unlimited trial accounts" or "infinite trial accounts" or something similar has the risk of making people think you can create as many limited-time trial accounts as you want. it is an update to the trial account system, and it is F2P in that regard.
As for failing to attract other people, I'm honestly not so sure that this is the ultimate goal of it. I have long believed, and still maintain, that the short trial times just aren't enough time for new players to really get invested into the game, especially considering how different it is from every MMO out there. Having unending trial accounts allows a person to learn at a more leisurely pace, instead of trying to learn everything they can and attempting to socialize and get to know people in two or three weeks. Being asked to pony up $15 while you're still clueless is not an easy sell.
While saying "F2P" will most certainly bring folks in to try it out, even if most don't stick around, those who do decide to stick around will have more time to learn and grow before making the plunge. It's not so very different from being able to make multiple trial accounts while still learning the basics, except now, if a person begins to get invested in their character, they know they won't lose them in two weeks while they're still on the fence about joining.
In fewer words, it takes the pressure off new players from having to join while they're still learning. For many, many people (I would hazard to say most), having to make a pressured decision about whether or not to money on a luxury will almost always result in them not spending the money. This takes that pressure away while increasing exposure. Even if it doesn't increase the number of incoming newbies, I strongly believe that it will increase the conversion rates of those who do come.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4414
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:11:36 -
[942] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote: [if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4416
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:16:09 -
[943] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote: In fewer words, it takes the pressure off new players from having to join while they're still learning. For many, many people (I would hazard to say most), having to make a pressured decision about whether or not to money on a luxury will almost always result in them not spending the money. This takes that pressure away while increasing exposure. Even if it doesn't increase the number of incoming newbies, I strongly believe that it will increase the conversion rates of those who do come.
I'm not saying CCP shouldn't make a move like this. I'm saying the way they're making it is critically flawed and doomed to failure.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
Martin Corwin
Corwin's Corsairs
45
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:17:13 -
[944] - Quote
So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1714
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:19:48 -
[945] - Quote
Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news.
Pretty much what is happening yes |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
334
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:21:23 -
[946] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Lothar Mandrake
Min Wei Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:26:01 -
[947] - Quote
THIS STINKS ON SO MANY LEVELS! BAD MOVE CCP!
Can you imagine Jita? It already lags so bad and now you are letting the..... I'll be nice this time and not finish that sentence.
I just threw out all the jump clone modules in my citadels in preparation for this mess. Hopefully, we can lock all of them up somewhere in 1 system.
Careful CCP, you are starting to act like Lameloft (Gameloft). That company is trash, don't follow in their footsteps. We love our pay to play EVE, please leave it as it has been for over a decade!!! |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
23
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:26:35 -
[948] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote: [if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words. -Liang
welp to be honest I haven;'t really bothered with watching the vid itself, but by reading the blog I've actually got a feel of "oh so they've dumped more restriction on trial accounts and released the time limits from it, cool"
but then, excuse me if I'll get over triggered over semantics here, just improper use of "f2p" in this scenario will bring alot of noise over dominant p2w, and also it is not first MMO game that has implememnted trials-without-time-limitations that those press has labeled as "turning f2p"
and then later used in another piece of propaganda on how f2p is the gaming business model of the future, because you can see apparently everyone and their grandma turns to it.......
PS. some definitions: Trial - a FREE access to a software with functionality or time restrictions enforced F2P game - game develompent model assuming free access to all game content without paying, with microtransaction shop providing additional minor services
and quess which one alpha clone state fits better..... |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14595
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:30:34 -
[949] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with.
If more people don't materialize, then what?
Sure, it might mean a temporary influx of people given all the news about it it, but so did B-R, and "This is EVE" and other newsworthy events. So I'll ask again, if (imo when, but ok let's go with IF) 'more people' doesn't happen, will this finally be enough to help naive people understand that it's not some barrier keeping people out of EVE it's a whole bunch of other stuff (like being a sandbox game in a world where gamers want and need directing, nonconsensual pvp in a world where people want protection from pvp, etc etc).
Just asking, because the same though occurs to me every time I see this kind of thing. Like how everyone was claiming that Dominion (and later Aegis) were going to be great for small groups, or how people proclaimed how daillies would bring lots of people back etc etc. Year after year we've seen this in discussions about EVE.
How many times do people have to be wrong before they change their thinking? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17856
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:30:58 -
[950] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with. Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic. It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is.
Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat (shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts)
=]|[=
|
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6386
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:31:41 -
[951] - Quote
It seems a whole bunch of people don't understand the Gnosis "feature".
If you cannot train racial frigate / destroyer / cruiser / battlecruiser / etc., you cannot pilot a racial, navy, faction / pirate ship that requires those skills. e.g. A Caldari alpha clone cannot pilot any Gallente ships.
HOWEVER the Gnosis has no ship or battlecruiser requirement of any kind! It only requires Spaceship Command 1, which alpha clones can train (like all clones, they probably start with it already trained).
CCP may have overlooked this hull IF SKILLS ARE THE ONLY LIMITING FACTOR, which would be the obvious and simplest way to implement alpha clones. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14595
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:34:23 -
[952] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with. Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic. It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is. Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat (shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts)
Well said. I ain't leaving.
Bob Marley voice
GÇ£The people who were trying to make this world imaginary spaceship universe worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?GÇ¥
/Bob Marley voice
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Lothar Mandrake
Min Wei Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:34:54 -
[953] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with. Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic. It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is. Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat (shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts)
This is bad! You can't reverse this decision. Pandora's box on steroids.
PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW TRAINING ON ANY SKILL PAST LEVEL 1 AT LEAST!!!! That will limit the damage these "free players" can do. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5177
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:44:39 -
[954] - Quote
Lothar Mandrake wrote:THIS STINKS ON SO MANY LEVELS! BAD MOVE CCP!
Can you imagine Jita? It already lags so bad and now you are letting the..... I'll be nice this time and not finish that sentence.
I just threw out all the jump clone modules in my citadels in preparation for this mess. Hopefully, we can lock all of them up somewhere in 1 system.
Careful CCP, you are starting to act like Lameloft (Gameloft). That company is trash, don't follow in their footsteps. We love our pay to play EVE, please leave it as it has been for over a decade!!!
PLEX prices are going to CRASH! I pay for multiple accounts for my family members, now I don't have to. Good job CCP, you will lose SO much money in gameplay purchases.
Oh for God's sake....
Jita is not nearly as bad as it was when there were 2x as many people logging on during peak hours. I have not been locked out of Jita due to people in system in ages. I have not had my Jita alt moved to Perimeter due to number of people already in system in ages.
And yes you can let your subs expire....and lose access to all your Omega skills (assuming you still play the game).
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5177
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:47:59 -
[955] - Quote
Lothar Mandrake wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with. Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic. It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is. Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat (shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts) This is bad! You can't reverse this decision. Pandora's box on steroids. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW TRAINING ON ANY SKILL PAST LEVEL 1 AT LEAST!!!! That will limit the damage these "free players" can do.
Sure you can.
And read the DevBlog, Alpha clones will have a limited set of skills. None of which they can train to lvl 5, some to lvl 3.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Darkblad
1076
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:52:18 -
[956] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:CCP may have overlooked this hull Probably not
NPE-ISD-Übersetzt!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17858
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:52:42 -
[957] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lothar Mandrake wrote: +Snip+
This is bad! You can't reverse this decision. Pandora's box on steroids.
PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW TRAINING ON ANY SKILL PAST LEVEL 1 AT LEAST!!!! That will limit the damage these "free players" can do.
Sure you can. And read the DevBlog, Alpha clones will have a limited set of skills. None of which they can train to lvl 5, some to lvl 3. I'm pretty sure he's being irreverent, it's hard to tell because it's not funny but that's what I got from it.
=]|[=
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Estuary Algaert
Petulant Luddite GmbH
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:52:45 -
[958] - Quote
Not like my opinion counts for much... but.
All-n-all I like this, though as a representative of a hi-sec "ganking" corporation even my darkened heart can see that allowing these Alphas totally off the leash is a bad idea regardless of log on limitations. Safety settings for Alpha needs to be limited to yellow or green.
Would love to see a middle ground account option that lets you pay a smaller fee each month and keep ALL your skills but you can no longer passively train them.
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Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
143
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 17:59:05 -
[959] - Quote
While i like this idea i have a few concerns regarding certain gameplay styles this will affect.
1. Free hi-sec ganking alts, yep code can now field a ton of ganking catas and then just make a new account so they are not red and free from being counter ganked.
2. Venture fleets. now i from what i'm looking at its possible to have ventures with t2 mining lasers and mining upgrades. This to me seems VERY powerful. While not the best a Venture is still a mining beast and a disposable one at that. having a fleet of these will depressed the ore market a lot. (and yes i?m thinking about it :P) on the other hand it will reduce the cost of ships that have seen there price skyrocket for some reason. I personally think they should be limited to T1 mining lasers and upgrades.
3. Leadership. Why is this even in the list as by the time this comes out it will be of no use to Alpha clones anyways as they cannot fly a boosting ship.
4. While i cannot see any listed skills for PI i would like it confirmed that they will not be able to use PI skills. Also what will happen to a OMEGAS planet when they downgrade to ALPHA? |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:04:40 -
[960] - Quote
Lothar Mandrake wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Martin Corwin wrote:So trials are just getting an upgrade from 21 days to unlimited time. Meh. Wake me up when there's real news. Pretty much what is happening yes I'm so happy more people are starting to realize this. It's really not going to change anything that much. We'll just have more people to play with. Why do you think I've largely keep quiet on the topic. It's a red herring, a deeply concerning one but far from the deathly shrieking some think it is. Also might be a faint, to thin the old guard somewhat (shah,dmc don't go, im right with you on principle but don't become martyr's because ye don't like the the weather forecasts) This is bad! You can't reverse this decision. Pandora's box on steroids. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW TRAINING ON ANY SKILL PAST LEVEL 1 AT LEAST!!!! That will limit the damage these "free players" can do.
I'm beginning to see the issue with unlimited alts. |
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James Duadoulin
modro Swords of Damocles
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:09:21 -
[961] - Quote
Querns wrote:Regarding this question in the Q&A: Quote: Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.
lol how many of us have laptops capable of playing eve in addition to our gaming rig?
i know i have 3 laptops in addition to my gaming rig.
only if they limit it by IP address will they be able to regulate it into uselessness.
still doesnt stop a player from using free alts as ammo dumps.
fit up a t1 hauler with t1 expanders scout your free alt into the area you intend to do PVE and pvp
have them filled up with extra ammo and hull reps/ armor reps. log them off. now when you are in a region you only have to fly to the system you logged your alt off in log your alt in. have it jetison the ammo or repairers you need and then log off again.
could save a crap ton of time for mission runners and pvpers who dont want to fly all the way home to refit and repair.
we will find ways to use them . i can already see myself having at least 3 of them just for ammo dumps in the regions i operate in. maybe another as an uncloaky scout/ scanning ship. |
Alpha Clone Prime
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:12:19 -
[962] - Quote
Live the Alpha life, get rid of your Plex chains!
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Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:17:32 -
[963] - Quote
James Duadoulin wrote:Querns wrote:Regarding this question in the Q&A: Quote: Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE. lol how many of us have laptops capable of playing eve in addition to our gaming rig? i know i have 3 laptops in addition to my gaming rig. only if they limit it by IP address will they be able to regulate it into uselessness. still doesnt stop a player from using free alts as ammo dumps. fit up a t1 hauler with t1 expanders scout your free alt into the area you intend to do PVE and pvp have them filled up with extra ammo and hull reps/ armor reps. log them off. now when you are in a region you only have to fly to the system you logged your alt off in log your alt in. have it jetison the ammo or repairers you need and then log off again. could save a crap ton of time for mission runners and pvpers who dont want to fly all the way home to refit and repair. we will find ways to use them . i can already see myself having at least 3 of them just for ammo dumps in the regions i operate in. maybe another as an uncloaky scout/ scanning ship.
Please...the screaming masses will never understand that not everyone is thinking about unlimited skill farms/miners/gank alts in fleets of 50 from every computer..
Personally I think they are mostly butt hurt over them paying for 2/3/4 and more accounts for years, but now someone is getting accounts for free, accounts that they can do a lot of things in that they'll never risk their indy alt doing...not realising ofc that they could actually make a couple of alts which are entirely disposable to try stuff they can't or won't risk an Omega account doing. |
Eretria Amberle
Application Rejected
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:22:07 -
[964] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:After thinking about this some more, I really think 99.9% of the issues with this idea revolve around people abusing alpha clones to scale alts in ways that haven't been thought out yet.
The way to solve this is to limit the number of alpha accounts belonging to a single human that can be simultaneously logged in to one. The problem here is that people are clever and just using a simple 1 account per PC check isn't sufficient in the days of people having multiple computers and VMs and containers (the real scary one because containers scale much better).
The way to achieve this is really to tie all characters to a human being (name, credit card number, street address, mobile phone number, etc). Make alpha players pay 1 USD/EUR via credit card to verify they are a real person. Make players do mobile phone verification via SMS text messages. Etc, etc, etc.
Then, completely scrap the concept of having multiple accounts. Every human gets exactly 1 account. This new account can have an unlimited number of alpha characters on it (or some large limit that CCP sets for database reasons). The new account also gets the ability to log in a single alpha character (ie 1 simultaneous login). Whenever you purchase a monthly subscription (plex, time card, monthly fee) you get the following: designate 3 characters on your account that are upgraded to omega clone and you get +1 simultaneous logins for omega clones. You can let people remap which characters are omega clones using a timer similar to the attribute remap timer.
Then update the EULA to make it a perma-ban offense for for any human to attempt to have more than 1 Eve online account. The only issue here would be when multiple people in the same household play Eve and in that case there are minors involved so some extra verification is warranted anyway. Also update the EULA to make it a temp ban offense to use alpha clones to circumvent criminal timers or do anything else that you don't want people creating armies of alpha characters for.
If you do this, then you really nip this problem in the bud. NOBODY will attempt to circumvent the 1 account per person problem for fear of getting all their character banned.
I think you meant to finish that with NOBODY will attempt to log in,lol , now you want subbed accounts limited.every human one online account.....that like telling ccp to retract it actually had 500k subs, it made alot of money from alts ,we have made plenty of isk using alts...you want to ban groups from just hopping online and shooting each other cause their ip is all the same ,example would be Korea,quite a few soldiers gather up and games various games,with this notion of yours that get flushed down the drain ,surely it wouldnt come to that ,small identifiers here and there to sort.CCP is not trying to restrict "YOUR" gameplay just constrict what may have been abusive gameplay .They want to fix issues.People seem to have a problem with excessive accounts whether it be trail or subbed .Alts provide a means of taking on issues instead of having to wait years to train all the skills you 'might' need.Taking them away is like saying once you fly amarr you cant go Minmatar ever.CCP can nickel and dime this however they want and Sharpshooting them isnt what they want,they want feedback about possible issues. they change the way something is named and now its like the end of the world. And they will get a clear picture when subs stops .
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Riela Tanal
Repercussus Northern Coalition.
71
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:30:29 -
[965] - Quote
Will Alpha clones have access to SISI or Thunderdome servers? |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
638
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:33:55 -
[966] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:...Gnosis...
CCP may have overlooked this hull IF SKILLS ARE THE ONLY LIMITING FACTOR, which would be the obvious and simplest way to implement alpha clones.
Nope. CCP have confirmed that the Gnosis is available for use. Oh, right. It wasn't clarified in this thread, in the dev post, or anywhere on the eveonline.com domain, where it might be easily seen or found by players of EVE Online, the game CCP created. IT WAS CLARIFIED ON REDDIT.
CCP, please. Posting information to Reddit instead of your own bloody site is frustrating and insulting. It's enough of a challenge to sift through multiple threads and dev blogs to put together relevant information. Having to include Reddit in that search (actually, going to Reddit first instead the official site) is just silly. At the very least, cross-post the information to both sites. It won't hurt to put a link in the thread dedicated to the subject (ie., this one) pointing to the question that was answered, either.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5177
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:45:04 -
[967] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:James Duadoulin wrote:Querns wrote:Regarding this question in the Q&A: Quote: Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE. lol how many of us have laptops capable of playing eve in addition to our gaming rig? i know i have 3 laptops in addition to my gaming rig. only if they limit it by IP address will they be able to regulate it into uselessness. still doesnt stop a player from using free alts as ammo dumps. fit up a t1 hauler with t1 expanders scout your free alt into the area you intend to do PVE and pvp have them filled up with extra ammo and hull reps/ armor reps. log them off. now when you are in a region you only have to fly to the system you logged your alt off in log your alt in. have it jetison the ammo or repairers you need and then log off again. could save a crap ton of time for mission runners and pvpers who dont want to fly all the way home to refit and repair. we will find ways to use them . i can already see myself having at least 3 of them just for ammo dumps in the regions i operate in. maybe another as an uncloaky scout/ scanning ship. Please...the screaming masses will never understand that not everyone is thinking about unlimited skill farms/miners/gank alts in fleets of 50 from every computer.. Personally I think they are mostly butt hurt over them paying for 2/3/4 and more accounts for years, but now someone is getting accounts for free, accounts that they can do a lot of things in that they'll never risk their indy alt doing...not realising ofc that they could actually make a couple of alts which are entirely disposable to try stuff they can't or won't risk an Omega account doing.
Not only that but how would you control 3 let alone 10 or 20 alts from 3 (or 10 or 20) different computers.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:45:28 -
[968] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:...Gnosis...
CCP may have overlooked this hull IF SKILLS ARE THE ONLY LIMITING FACTOR, which would be the obvious and simplest way to implement alpha clones. Nope. CCP have confirmed that the Gnosis is available for use. Oh, right. It wasn't clarified in this thread, in the dev post, or anywhere on the eveonline.com domain, where it might be easily seen or found by players of EVE Online, the game CCP created. IT WAS CLARIFIED ON REDDIT. CCP, please. Posting information to Reddit instead of your own bloody site is frustrating and insulting. It's enough of a challenge to sift through multiple threads and dev blogs to put together relevant information. Having to include Reddit in that search (actually, going to Reddit first instead the official site) is just silly. At the very least, cross-post the information to both sites. It won't hurt to put a link in the thread dedicated to the subject (ie., this one) pointing to the question that was answered, either.
It's strange that he can be bothered answering there instead of here really.
Annoying as well as the only time I ever use Reddit for anything is when something like this happens :/ |
Lasisha Mishi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:49:41 -
[969] - Quote
so i recently talked to my clan from Star Trek Online, Archeage, and WoT
and asked them if they would be willing to try EVE if the trial didn't have a time limit on it.
they were REALLY confused when i explained the skill lock/limits and stuff. but overall most agreed they'd be up to try it out .
not sure how many will stay once they learn how dangerous EVE is, but i'm sure some will find the appeal in it i have.
so +1 for this move CCP. and i'll give more +1s once we get to the point when i teach these guys the harsh reality of EVE.....aka don't trust anyone(they half expect me to kill them at some point from the stories i've told them)
can't w8 for this update to come |
MAS0RAKSH
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
14
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:55:54 -
[970] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:James Duadoulin wrote:Querns wrote:Regarding this question in the Q&A:
[quote] Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.
but to remove mining frigate, mining, and reprocessing removes the ability for actual new alphas to make isk when they've lost everything. is it possible to lock their mining lasers to not work in 0.0? |
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5178
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:58:41 -
[971] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:so i recently talked to my clan from Star Trek Online, Archeage, and WoT
and asked them if they would be willing to try EVE if the trial didn't have a time limit on it.
they were REALLY confused when i explained the skill lock/limits and stuff. but overall most agreed they'd be up to try it out .
not sure how many will stay once they learn how dangerous EVE is, but i'm sure some will find the appeal in it i have.
so +1 for this move CCP. and i'll give more +1s once we get to the point when i teach these guys the harsh reality of EVE.....aka don't trust anyone(they half expect me to kill them at some point from the stories i've told them)
can't w8 for this update to come
Same, I have a coworker who plans on trying it out. He realizes exactly how brutal the game can be in terms of player interaction, so not worried about that. What kept him away was RL would often keep him away and the thought of paying a sub for a game he was not able to play regularly was not appealing.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
ACESsiggy
Pandemic Horde Inc.
59
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:58:59 -
[972] - Quote
A much needed improvement to the way new players can engage the game and be apart of the EVE universe.
GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
|
Memnon Shepard
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
42
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 18:59:05 -
[973] - Quote
I was initially surprised and didn't know how to feel, but the more I think/read about this change the more I like it. It seems like they've thought out how to prevent any catastrophic damage to the universe while also allowing people to hang out with old friends (particularly those who have left the game over time but miss old corp mates). It will also make it easier for me to get friends into the game who enjoyed the tutorial but refuse to fork over a subscription fee. I'm excited to see how this turns out! |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5178
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:00:56 -
[974] - Quote
MAS0RAKSH wrote:Ginger Naari wrote:James Duadoulin wrote:Querns wrote:Regarding this question in the Q&A:
[quote] Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE. but to remove mining frigate, mining, and reprocessing removes the ability for actual new alphas to make isk when they've lost everything. is it possible to lock their mining lasers to not work in 0.0?
Sooo...lets just make it a truly awful extended trial? Am I reading you correctly?
And maybe no to the mining lasers in NS because maybe some might go there, mine stuff and see how much more ISK there is and want to live in NS and sub. Or they'll get killed, and see how exciting it is and want to sub. Or...quit...but then it's just an Alpha.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
James Duadoulin
modro Swords of Damocles
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:04:14 -
[975] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Ginger Naari wrote:James Duadoulin wrote:Querns wrote:Regarding this question in the Q&A: Quote: Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE. lol how many of us have laptops capable of playing eve in addition to our gaming rig? i know i have 3 laptops in addition to my gaming rig. only if they limit it by IP address will they be able to regulate it into uselessness. still doesnt stop a player from using free alts as ammo dumps. fit up a t1 hauler with t1 expanders scout your free alt into the area you intend to do PVE and pvp have them filled up with extra ammo and hull reps/ armor reps. log them off. now when you are in a region you only have to fly to the system you logged your alt off in log your alt in. have it jetison the ammo or repairers you need and then log off again. could save a crap ton of time for mission runners and pvpers who dont want to fly all the way home to refit and repair. we will find ways to use them . i can already see myself having at least 3 of them just for ammo dumps in the regions i operate in. maybe another as an uncloaky scout/ scanning ship. Please...the screaming masses will never understand that not everyone is thinking about unlimited skill farms/miners/gank alts in fleets of 50 from every computer.. Personally I think they are mostly butt hurt over them paying for 2/3/4 and more accounts for years, but now someone is getting accounts for free, accounts that they can do a lot of things in that they'll never risk their indy alt doing...not realising ofc that they could actually make a couple of alts which are entirely disposable to try stuff they can't or won't risk an Omega account doing. Not only that but how would you control 3 let alone 10 or 20 alts from 3 (or 10 or 20) different computers.
3 alts on 3 different computers is fairly easy when they are only scouts. (and you could also train them up on drones and have them assign drones to your main. its a force multiplier. ratting HAVENS in 2-3 min by virtue of 20 drones following your commands. granted they are T1 but you can still faction fit those vexors. once the drones are assigned the otehr accounts requre no input except for monitoring ship hp and drone health levels.
go into wormhole scan down all wh exits pop your alts 1000km off of each hole. you have instant feedback if anyone enters system same thing that used to be done with cloaky camera alts except its live and they are actually vulnerable since they cant cloak. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5180
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:11:44 -
[976] - Quote
James Duadoulin wrote:
3 alts on 3 different computers is fairly easy when they are only scouts. (and you could also train them up on drones and have them assign drones to your main. its a force multiplier. ratting HAVENS in 2-3 min by virtue of 20 drones following your commands. granted they are T1 but you can still faction fit those vexors. once the drones are assigned the otehr accounts requre no input except for monitoring ship hp and drone health levels.
go into wormhole scan down all wh exits pop your alts 1000km off of each hole. you have instant feedback if anyone enters system same thing that used to be done with cloaky camera alts except its live and they are actually vulnerable since they cant cloak.
That's true, but when that bad guy comes and lands in your sanctum.... you are pretty much stuck there or you will lose 1-3 of your ratting vexors. And once that happened, if it were me, I'd be coming back regularly to pay you a visit.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Dibble Dabble
Capital Assets Inc
71
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:14:07 -
[977] - Quote
I am not sure if this has been asked but will Alpha clones / accounts have full access to the forums or will this be reserved for paid for accounts only?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5180
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:15:08 -
[978] - Quote
Dibble Dabble wrote:I am not sure if this has been asked but will Alpha clones / accounts have full access to the forums or will this be reserved for paid for accounts only?
It has been asked, not sure of an answer....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Careby
290
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:17:52 -
[979] - Quote
James Duadoulin wrote:...only if they limit it by IP address will they be able to regulate it into uselessness...
Limiting by IP address is not really practical - there are lots of unrelated players that share the same IP. A lot of university networks use private IPs behind NAT, so all the students in all the dorms might have the same external IP. On the other hand, players with access to a block of global IPs could easily field multiple IPs on one computer.
|
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
121
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:21:35 -
[980] - Quote
Emilie Chatelet wrote:Dear CCP,
I have a question. I just started playing EVE, with a paid subscription. Will I be given all of those skills for free come November? Or, should I just stop my subscription now, and wait to get them in November?
Please read the dev blog. Those players will not get free skills or skill points. They acquire those the exact same way you do.
YOU however are still free to skill up beyond that 5 million SP cap that's race locked into your specific race. |
|
Borgum
Red Claw Rising
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:31:49 -
[981] - Quote
In case this was not asked: For the char and alts that were trained up from 0 skills on the current subscription plan, will the new free clone skills be reimbursed per char if we've already spent the time and real life money to train them?
|
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:35:21 -
[982] - Quote
Borgum wrote:In case this was not asked: For the char and alts that were trained up from 0 skills on the current subscription plan, will the new free clone skills be reimbursed per char if we've already spent the time and real life money to train them?
No. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
421
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:46:46 -
[983] - Quote
An interesting move.
You should remove trial accounts completely with the introduction of Alpha Clones. Whether you decide to limit the number of simultaneous launched Alpha accounts to 1 is obviously in your hands, but it would not be a surprise to see Alpha clones used for cheap mining labor. Even if they are using a civilian miner in a badger.
Other than that, this looks like a good idea to get more bodies into the game without compromising the subscriber base.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:59:34 -
[984] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote: [if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words. -Liang Maybe you ought to listen to what seagull actually said, We would like to introduce a new feature to eve that allows both old and new players to take part in eve for free. Without messing with the base model that eve always has been a subscription model game we want everyone to be able to play and with this we have developed Clone States.
Nowhere in the video or Blog does it infer that the game is free but that they have introduced a new feature Alpha state with all its blurb that allows free play and can be upgraded. |
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:02:29 -
[985] - Quote
WOW! Very interesting idea.
I have mixed feeling about this, sounds like a catch 22 situation but mucho kudos to you for putting the need of getting more people into New Eden above monies.
Personally I think this could work out well, and might even get more subs long term, without loosing those that can't manage the sub fees or plex prices but still want to play Eve. I will cross all available fingers for ya.
My only fear is, and as you mentioned, regarding server lag. Should this work out well and people start joining in droves, should it effect the quality of play for those of us that do pay monies? No, it shouldn't. Hence the catch 22 situation. But you seem confident you and tranquility can handle it so bring it on. Lets find out.
I already have a few internet friends that might play if its free but the main reason I can't get net or RL mates playing are the ganking issues, not the sub price.
|
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2968
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:04:02 -
[986] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote: [if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words. -Liang Maybe you ought to listen to what seagull actually said, We would like to introduce a new feature to eve that allows both old and new players to take part in eve for free. Without messing with the base model that eve always has been a subscription model game we want everyone to be able to play and with this we have developed Clone States. Nowhere in the video or Blog does it infer that the game is free but that they have introduced a new feature Alpha state with all its blurb that allows free play and can be upgraded. Come now, it is a F2P move and is rightly being interpreted as such by the gaming media and players of other games. Sure, there are variations on the theme but the key point of being able to play for free means this is a free to play transition.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:20:12 -
[987] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote: [if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words. -Liang Maybe you ought to listen to what seagull actually said, We would like to introduce a new feature to eve that allows both old and new players to take part in eve for free. Without messing with the base model that eve always has been a subscription model game we want everyone to be able to play and with this we have developed Clone States. Nowhere in the video or Blog does it infer that the game is free but that they have introduced a new feature Alpha state with all its blurb that allows free play and can be upgraded. Come now, it is a F2P move and is rightly being interpreted as such by the gaming media and players of other games. Sure, there are variations on the theme but the key point of being able to play for free means this is a free to play transition. I disagree, the hype is what blizzard got when they removed there time limitations of trials with WoW and they got all the same type of thing Play It For Free ..... tiny letters upto level 20. The whole emphasis in the video is to get people playing without time constraints at the same time letting people know its set at racial ships and upto cruiser level and if you want to you can upgrade.
I suppose you see what you want to, anything to ramp up the drama. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4417
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:21:00 -
[988] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote: [if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words. -Liang Maybe you ought to listen to what seagull actually said, We would like to introduce a new feature to eve that allows both old and new players to take part in eve for free. Without messing with the base model that eve always has been a subscription model game we want everyone to be able to play and with this we have developed Clone States. Nowhere in the video or Blog does it infer that the game is free but that they have introduced a new feature Alpha state with all its blurb that allows free play and can be upgraded.
I want to be very clear about something: I'm totally fine with this happening. Hell, I even support Eve pushing in the F2P direction some, because obviously what they're doing isn't working as well as they'd like. But let's make sure we're all on the same footing. I'll copy/paste your text and underline the parts you apparently forgot to read:
CCP Seagull wrote: We would like to introduce a new feature to eve that allows both old and new players to take part in eve for free. Without messing with the base model that eve always has been a subscription model game we want everyone to be able to play and with this we have developed Clone States.
Don't insult everyone's intelligence by claiming this isn't a free to play move - it is. I'm just concerned that the consequences for doing it half assed will give them the worst of all possible worlds. It'll offend existing players who are virulently anti-F2P and not provide enough of a carrot to convince free players they'd like to stick around. In particular, the extremely limited scope of alpha clones makes even the parts of the game that they can actually interact with feel very much like pay to win.
As it stands, this change won't be that attractive to new players - especially ones who've been around the block a couple of times. Instead, this change is going to be mostly used by existing players. Which is a crying shame, because Eve needs new paying players.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:26:17 -
[989] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Andrea Cemenotar wrote: [if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words. -Liang Maybe you ought to listen to what seagull actually said, We would like to introduce a new feature to eve that allows both old and new players to take part in eve for free. Without messing with the base model that eve always has been a subscription model game we want everyone to be able to play and with this we have developed Clone States. Nowhere in the video or Blog does it infer that the game is free but that they have introduced a new feature Alpha state with all its blurb that allows free play and can be upgraded. I want to be very clear about something: I'm totally fine with this happening. Hell, I even support Eve pushing in the F2P direction some, because obviously what they're doing isn't working as well as they'd like. But let's make sure we're all on the same footing. I'll copy/paste your text and underline the parts you apparently forgot to read: CCP Seagull wrote: We would like to introduce a new feature to eve that allows both old and new players to take part in eve for free. Without messing with the base model that eve always has been a subscription model game we want everyone to be able to play and with this we have developed Clone States.
Don't insult everyone's intelligence by claiming this isn't a free to play move - it is. I'm just concerned that the consequences for doing it half assed will give them the worst of all possible worlds. It'll offend existing players who are virulently anti-F2P and not provide enough of a carrot to convince free players they'd like to stick around. In particular, the extremely limited scope of alpha clones makes even the parts of the game that they can actually interact with feel very much like pay to win. As it stands, this change won't be that attractive to new players - especially ones who've been around the block a couple of times. Instead, this change is going to be mostly used by existing players. Which is a crying shame, because Eve needs new paying players. -Liang Cherry picking snippits is quite insulting to people with half a brain too, a Feature not the game but a feature within the game. Something you don't understand ?? |
Lord Road
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:33:04 -
[990] - Quote
Right ... so my PC should be able to handle ~20 clients. A med sized corp will be able to field 1000 toons easily. Undock 1000 toons. Dock back up. Repeat. Drive the attacker insane in TiDi .
but ... but .. we all know that CCP's infrastructure is fully capable of handling thousands of players, and even during the battle of B-R5 it only (and here we quote) "sweat a bit".
What? we need delve tossed today? Who's turn is to toss 40 systems at once? Jimmy boy, it's your turn!!
So, unless this is limited to one alpha/PC, it will be abused in so many ways that Marilyn Mason would be jealous.
|
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4417
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:39:06 -
[991] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Cherry picking snippits is quite insulting to people with half a brain too, a Feature not the game but a feature within the game. Something you don't understand ??
Dude, seriously. The entire video was about playing Eve for free. She must say it over a dozen times in the short video. It doesn't matter how much bullshit you want to throw into this, it's still Eve Online - F2P Edition. Money says that in the Steam launcher it's going to say "Free to play" as well. There are expectations that go with that kind of term, and this violates most of them in all the ways that gets everyone upset.
All I'm asking for is that the game doesn't immediately come of tasting like pay to win - because right now it's going to.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
76
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:50:20 -
[992] - Quote
Lord Road wrote:Right ... so my PC should be able to handle ~20 clients. A med sized corp will be able to field 1000 toons easily. Undock 1000 toons. Dock back up. Repeat. Drive the attacker insane in TiDi .
but ... but .. we all know that CCP's infrastructure is fully capable of handling thousands of players, and even during the battle of B-R5 it only (and here we quote) "sweat a bit".
What? we need delve tossed today? Who's turn is to toss 40 systems at once? Jimmy boy, it's your turn!!
So, unless this is limited to one alpha/PC, it will be abused in so many ways that Marilyn Mason would be jealous.
Are you saying that NC. all uses the same bot that you use that will allow you to script undock 500 players running 20 accounts each all at the same time?
I think your pointing CCP to a wider issue that needs to be dealt with. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:54:30 -
[993] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Cherry picking snippits is quite insulting to people with half a brain too, a Feature not the game but a feature within the game. Something you don't understand ?? Dude, seriously. The entire video was about playing Eve for free. She must say it over a dozen times in the short video. It doesn't matter how much bullshit you want to throw into this, it's still Eve Online - F2P Edition. Money says that in the Steam launcher it's going to say "Free to play" as well. There are expectations that go with that kind of term, and this violates most of them in all the ways that gets everyone upset. All I'm asking for is that the game doesn't immediately come of tasting like pay to win - because right now it's going to. -Liang Like i said before there's always someone wanting to ramp up the drama " Over a dozen times " which actually translates to 3 times ...... |
Lord Road
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:57:31 -
[994] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:Lord Road wrote:Right ... so my PC should be able to handle ~20 clients. A med sized corp will be able to field 1000 toons easily. Undock 1000 toons. Dock back up. Repeat. Drive the attacker insane in TiDi .
but ... but .. we all know that CCP's infrastructure is fully capable of handling thousands of players, and even during the battle of B-R5 it only (and here we quote) "sweat a bit".
What? we need delve tossed today? Who's turn is to toss 40 systems at once? Jimmy boy, it's your turn!!
So, unless this is limited to one alpha/PC, it will be abused in so many ways that Marilyn Mason would be jealous.
Are you saying that NC. all uses the same bot that you use that will allow you to script undock 500 players running 20 accounts each all at the same time? I think your pointing CCP to a wider issue that needs to be dealt with.
no, but I'm saying your math skills need serious adjustment, cause 500x20 equals way more than CCP's 2003 code can handle on one node. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4418
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:58:31 -
[995] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Like i said before there's always someone wanting to ramp up the drama " Over a dozen times " which actually translates to 3 times ......
If I were wanting to ramp up the drama I'd be whining about how the change will allow people to exploit the game in a thousand different ways (suicide gankinhg, mining, missions, FW, something) or how Eve is already dead. I'm not even trying to dissuade CCP from their obvious course. I'm trying to be constructive by pointing out what I perceive to be a critical flaw in the fundamental design.
How about you?
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
motie one
Secret Passage
108
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 20:59:48 -
[996] - Quote
Oradric Cube wrote:Q: WonGÇÖt suicide ganking using free characters be a major problem?
A: We donGÇÖt think clone states will have much impact on suicide ganking or other harassment in high-sec. But, we will be paying very close attention and if this becomes an issue we can pursue options to improve the situation such as turning safetyGÇÖs on for Alphas in high sec or making changes to the allowed skills list.
Dear CCP staff, None of us truly believe that you are actually this naive. There will, with 100% certainty, be individuals that take advantage of this opportunity to create massive multiboxing fleets constructed of mostly alpha state accounts. We all know it, and we know that you know it. We also know that your "paying close attention" won't amount to much. You are willfully ignoring this issue because you *want* this to happen. If you don't design an automated mechanism (IE max 1 alpha per IP, no red safety on alpha, etc.) for preventing abuse then it will be abused. By not automating this you accept, condone and approve of the abuse. Just admit it.
Whilst it might not have occurred to you can you think of a better way of purging the game of input broadcasters? |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 21:07:28 -
[997] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Like i said before there's always someone wanting to ramp up the drama " Over a dozen times " which actually translates to 3 times ...... If I were wanting to ramp up the drama I'd be whining about how the change will allow people to exploit the game in a thousand different ways (suicide gankinhg, mining, missions, FW, something) or how Eve is already dead. I'm not even trying to dissuade CCP from their obvious course. I'm trying to be constructive by pointing out what I perceive to be a critical flaw in the fundamental design. How about you? -Liang I'm glad you actually said what you perceive as a flaw, everything she said was in context with it being a feature not that they're now changing a business model completely but to enhance the game beyond it's current limitations of timed trials and also including subs that have lapsed can rejoin within Alpha state and see what's changed, reconnect with old mates and maybe resub. Obviously they have to be careful with certain skills and limitations still have to be implemented but it opens it up to a much wider audience paying or other wise.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
359
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 21:09:39 -
[998] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Cherry picking snippits is quite insulting to people with half a brain too, a Feature not the game but a feature within the game. Something you don't understand ?? Dude, seriously. The entire video was about playing Eve for free. She must say it over a dozen times in the short video. It doesn't matter how much bullshit you want to throw into this, it's still Eve Online - F2P Edition. Money says that in the Steam launcher it's going to say "Free to play" as well. There are expectations that go with that kind of term, and this violates most of them in all the ways that gets everyone upset. All I'm asking for is that the game doesn't immediately come of tasting like pay to win - because right now it's going to. -Liang
I would be fine if Alphas could not fly, for example, cruisers, but they could fly frigates / dessies well. That means T2 guns and a viable pvp capable fit at minimum. Pay to win - which the proposal so batantly is in its current form would leave pretty bad taste in anyones mouth actually trying to undock with Alpha clone and try to get something done in space.
While any restrictions placed on Alphas will be labeled to some degree as pay to fin (because they will put the alphas at disadvantage in some scenarios or outright prevent some activities) it is paramount, in my opinion, that in whatever niche is they are supposed to sit, they should perform as good as an paying customer in that specific niche.
EVE has enough frigate only content for Alphas to go have a blast and some of them will subscribe eventually when they put in enough time, make friends and form the social ties. FW and Frig wormholes are the prime examples.
For current subscribes .. well they will use Alphas even if all they can fly are the noobships - they already have the social ties usually and it is nice to be able to log in into the client as talk to your old mates, ask how is weather in EVE currently and if it is good enough to give it another round. But a fresh joiner - if it's so blatantly pay to win they will not stick around long enough to subscribe.
So I guess it's a long way of saying that I agree with Liang on this one. Either do it properly or do not do it at all. Trying to jump into the swimming pool but not quite jumping will get you just hurt pretty bad in the process.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles Spectre Fleet Alliance
516
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 21:11:30 -
[999] - Quote
I quite like the idea. People don't really expect to put out money for MMOs before they try them properly these days. This allows people to give it a good crack and at the same time is restrictive enough to make them a bit meh, for more advance play. The restrictions are clearly around keeping the utility for alpha clones strictly down to don't interfere too much with the core. On top of that i like the racial restriction but can go as far as cruisers.
As for t2, are we still beating the dead horse of "but you can't play eve without a trillion SP" Really. In FW lots of people use t1. I use t1 for plenty of things. Just because everyone is obsessed with the most expensive "best" ship. That is just not how eve has *ever* worked. It is not a level based MMO (as in the only thing that matters is player level). One of the reasons i really like it. T1 can and is very useful. It is also bloody cheap and can't be beat for dollar to dollar. Have no problems with the t1 restriction.
I have to say thou i think minmitar core skills should permit both shield and amour tanks. We who love to fly the rust do indeed use both tanks about equally.
Trial accounts are already used for many of the things people here complain about and yes eve is dying and has been just around to corner from the day it was released. It is an old meme, it was stupid back then and is stupid now.
I think some people really should at least read the dev blog. It is clear that alpha clones will have logon restrictions etc. But the levels of these restrictions are still being decided.
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
waltari
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 21:22:48 -
[1000] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:It's truly amazing to me how many people think they understand how business works, but then go to spew so
blablablabla
1. The major number 1 reason why people quit EVE after their trial is because they can't or won't pay 15 dollars a month to play a video game. 2. They simply don't understand the concept because they grew up in a time where subscription based games had pretty much died out. 3. Most of these people actually seem to be offended by the mere notion of having to pay monthly. They perceive it as a money grab, greed, that sort of stuff. 4. And what you need to understand is that it doesn't matter if they are right or wrong. They are the consumer base CCP needs to survive, whether they like it or not. 5. So they need to appeal to a consumer base that does not want to pay monthly..
blablablabla
1. If so they are worthless and nobody needs em anyway in the first place, isnt it? 2. Same as above 3. And again, no. 1 4. No we dont, and they are not, because of what you wrote in point 1, they wont pay anyway, so no fucks given eh? 5. No they dont, its like giving blind man a plasma TV , waste of time
Whoever cant afford to pay 15bucks a month is propably unemployed homeless anyway. If he/she on the other hand doesnt want to willingly i see no point in allowing them free access no matter how restricted, its like throwing pearls to swine.
|
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motie one
Secret Passage
108
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 21:31:48 -
[1001] - Quote
waltari wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:It's truly amazing to me how many people think they understand how business works, but then go to spew so
blablablabla
1. The major number 1 reason why people quit EVE after their trial is because they can't or won't pay 15 dollars a month to play a video game. 2. They simply don't understand the concept because they grew up in a time where subscription based games had pretty much died out. 3. Most of these people actually seem to be offended by the mere notion of having to pay monthly. They perceive it as a money grab, greed, that sort of stuff. 4. And what you need to understand is that it doesn't matter if they are right or wrong. They are the consumer base CCP needs to survive, whether they like it or not. 5. So they need to appeal to a consumer base that does not want to pay monthly..
blablablabla
1. If so they are worthless and nobody needs em anyway in the first place, isnt it? 2. Same as above 3. And again, no. 1 4. No we dont, and they are not, because of what you wrote in point 1, they wont pay anyway, so no fucks given eh? 5. No they dont, its like giving blind man a plasma TV , waste of time Whoever cant afford to pay 15bucks a month is probably unemployed homeless anyway. If he/she on the other hand doesnt want to willingly i see no point in allowing them free access no matter how restricted, its like throwing pearls to swine.
Wow! Just wow. I am not going to even try to point out how appalling a human being you have just made yourself out to be. I hope it is an error in translation or a mistake.
But Wow.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4418
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 21:40:46 -
[1002] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote: As for t2, are we still beating the dead horse of "but you can't play eve without a trillion SP" Really. In FW lots of people use t1. I use t1 for plenty of things.
I'm not asking for a trillion SP and titans. I'm saying that flying a pulse ship without Scorch or an AC ship without Barrage is silly. These are literally going to be pay to win golden ammos.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
motie one
Secret Passage
108
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 21:45:13 -
[1003] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote: As for t2, are we still beating the dead horse of "but you can't play eve without a trillion SP" Really. In FW lots of people use t1. I use t1 for plenty of things.
I'm not asking for a trillion SP and titans. I'm saying that flying a pulse ship without Scorch or an AC ship without Barrage is silly. These are literally going to be pay to win golden ammos. -Liang
Well, you could put it that way, and yes, to do that would require they invest in the weapons systems as an omega. You are quite right, that these systems only become alive with T2
But
Eve is wonderfully wide and deep, so much to see, so much to do, let them get a full taste, and once their appetite is whetted, it is hoped they will become omegas. Joining all of us in the best game ever created.
Is that a bad thing? |
Judaa K'Marr
Power-Hug Training Bootcamp
33
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 21:50:08 -
[1004] - Quote
Oradric Cube wrote:Q: WonGÇÖt suicide ganking using free characters be a major problem?
A: We donGÇÖt think clone states will have much impact on suicide ganking or other harassment in high-sec. But, we will be paying very close attention and if this becomes an issue we can pursue options to improve the situation such as turning safetyGÇÖs on for Alphas in high sec or making changes to the allowed skills list.
Dear CCP staff, None of us truly believe that you are actually this naive. There will, with 100% certainty, be individuals that take advantage of this opportunity to create massive multiboxing fleets constructed of mostly alpha state accounts. We all know it, and we know that you know it. We also know that your "paying close attention" won't amount to much. You are willfully ignoring this issue because you *want* this to happen. If you don't design an automated mechanism (IE max 1 alpha per IP, no red safety on alpha, etc.) for preventing abuse then it will be abused. By not automating this you accept, condone and approve of the abuse. Just admit it.
Well you know what to do, instead of just posting, instead copy goons and abuse the mechanic yourself to within an inch of its life to make the protest.
Although I'd say the bigger opportunity was in spying and blue awoxing outside of highsec for anyone recruiting alpha accounts. Particularly of all those newly stationary rorquals. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17949
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 22:10:28 -
[1005] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote: As for t2, are we still beating the dead horse of "but you can't play eve without a trillion SP" Really. In FW lots of people use t1. I use t1 for plenty of things.
I'm not asking for a trillion SP and titans. I'm saying that flying a pulse ship without Scorch or an AC ship without Barrage is silly. These are literally going to be pay to win golden ammos. -Liang
No, they're what subscribers have always had. Regardless of the word "free" being used to describe what is factually an unlimited duration free trial, trial account restrictions don't make T2 ammo "pay to win" any more than they previously made being able to train cruiser skillbooks "pay to win".
If CCP had originally launched the game as a free to play model and then later introduced T2 ammo (etc) as a RMT only feature, you'd have a point. That kind of sleazy bait-and-switch is exactly what gives F2P games their bad rep. But what CCP are actually doing is in effect significantly increasing the scope of the free trial offer to their game.
No trial account players are worse off as a result of this change. No subscribing players are better off as a result of this change.
You cannot therefore call it "pay to win". If you want to make an argument that people are going to call it "pay to win", then have at it, but please don't be part of the problem.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
294
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 22:28:09 -
[1006] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote: As for t2, are we still beating the dead horse of "but you can't play eve without a trillion SP" Really. In FW lots of people use t1. I use t1 for plenty of things.
I'm not asking for a trillion SP and titans. I'm saying that flying a pulse ship without Scorch or an AC ship without Barrage is silly. These are literally going to be pay to win golden ammos. -Liang ACs on mini ships without barrage are not that bad, scorch is life for pulses tho. |
Dani Leone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 22:29:36 -
[1007] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote: As for t2, are we still beating the dead horse of "but you can't play eve without a trillion SP" Really. In FW lots of people use t1. I use t1 for plenty of things.
I'm not asking for a trillion SP and titans. I'm saying that flying a pulse ship without Scorch or an AC ship without Barrage is silly. These are literally going to be pay to win golden ammos. -Liang No, they're what subscribers have always had. Regardless of the word "free" being used to describe what is factually an unlimited duration free trial, trial account restrictions don't make T2 ammo "pay to win" any more than they previously made being able to train cruiser skillbooks "pay to win". If CCP had originally launched the game as a free to play model and then later introduced T2 ammo (etc) as a RMT only feature, you'd have a point. That kind of sleazy bait-and-switch is exactly what gives F2P games their bad rep. But what CCP are actually doing is in effect significantly increasing the scope of the free trial offer to their game. No trial account players are worse off as a result of this change. No subscribing players are better off as a result of this change. You cannot therefore call it "pay to win". If you want to make an argument that people are going to call it "pay to win", then have at it, but please don't be part of the problem.
Agreed, so many forum warriors seem to see anything that does not directly benefit them, but they worry others can benefit from, as pay to win.
But, this alpha free play option seems to me to be win win all round, more players and possibly more subs, and for those who just like to dip in occasionally like 2 days a month, without having to fully sub for the whole month it's a great option, and I bet newbs and vets alike wont care they can't use scorch on the unpaid clone, they'll likely have strategies in mind to try to nullify the advantage, like a good old fashioned T1 Swarm.
|
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
2049
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 22:30:01 -
[1008] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:No, they're what subscribers have always had. Regardless of the word "free" being used to describe what is factually an unlimited duration free trial, trial account restrictions don't make T2 ammo "pay to win" any more than they previously made being able to train cruiser skillbooks "pay to win". It's not marketed as a free trial, it's marketed as free to play. Which will make it very pay to win for new players. There is a false expectation being pushed that you can be competitive without subbing.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4418
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 22:34:22 -
[1009] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: No, they're what subscribers have always had. Regardless of the word "free" being used to describe what is factually an unlimited duration free trial, trial account restrictions don't make T2 ammo "pay to win" any more than they previously made being able to train cruiser skillbooks "pay to win".
If CCP had originally launched the game as a free to play model and then later introduced T2 ammo (etc) as a RMT only feature, you'd have a point. That kind of sleazy bait-and-switch is exactly what gives F2P games their bad rep. But what CCP are actually doing is in effect significantly increasing the scope of the free trial offer to their game.
No trial account players are worse off as a result of this change. No subscribing players are better off as a result of this change.
You cannot therefore call it "pay to win". If you want to make an argument that people are going to call it "pay to win", then have at it, but please don't be part of the problem.
See, I would agree with you if we want to view things from the perspective of an already paying customer. But I'm not. I'm looking at things as a new customer. And from that perspective, those ammos absolutely are pay to win. What I'm getting at is that the alpha clone isn't sufficient to bring people into the game. It needs more.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
121
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 22:47:57 -
[1010] - Quote
Blimey, so EVE finally goes free to play, based on the SWTOR model. Be interesting to see what happens. |
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Dom Analema
Dom's Shaved Ice Shack
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 22:58:47 -
[1011] - Quote
I agree with Liang's position but not with the reasoning behind it. I don't believe that if the alpha accounts were not given access to T2 modules that that would be considered to be pay 2 win because this is a subscription based game and has been since this latest news.
I feel that it is in CCP's best interest to allow them to use T2 modules so that they can get hooked.
Here is my reasoning, when these alpha players do happen to solo fight another tech 1 frig and come out the victor they will be more likely to get hooked into the game . Also, this will create better content for the rest of the community as these ships will have the ability to be properly fit and flown as to create greater and more numerous engagements across the game. Getting into gangs with these players would be much easier as well because you know they can fit T2 on frigs and dessies. This would create greater community involvement with these new players and help them transition to Omega
What I would limit the T2 modules to are up to the destroyer class though.
Let them have access to cruisers but only t1 modules on them to allow them a taste of bigger ships but an incentive to become an Omega Clone. Because of their experience with T1 frigs and Destroyers being properly fit they will learn that their T1 modules are the cause of their cruiser blowing up and not their skill. Now if they want to stay in the frigs and dessies let them. But eventually this game will suck them in and when that happens you will get multitudes of new subscribers.
This will allow returning players a chance to return to the game and get blown up relatively cheaply as they decide whether to go Omega again or not. Seeing as how they probably have many T2 fitted frigs and dessies lying around.
Steps for this to be successful:
1. Allow T2 on small modules and drones for Alpha. New players will get hooked with the structure of the game moving from T1 to T2 modules and drones, also giving them training goals for their favorite frigs and destroyers.
2. Profit.
3. Returning players can get blown up cheaply familiarizing themselves with the changes since they left. Eventually getting hooked again.
4. Profit some more
5. Some players may stay alpha forever and become frig and dessie Gods. Allow them that luxury for the content they create.
6. Profit some more again.
I am done now. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1974
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 23:20:02 -
[1012] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Malcanis wrote: No, they're what subscribers have always had. Regardless of the word "free" being used to describe what is factually an unlimited duration free trial, trial account restrictions don't make T2 ammo "pay to win" any more than they previously made being able to train cruiser skillbooks "pay to win".
If CCP had originally launched the game as a free to play model and then later introduced T2 ammo (etc) as a RMT only feature, you'd have a point. That kind of sleazy bait-and-switch is exactly what gives F2P games their bad rep. But what CCP are actually doing is in effect significantly increasing the scope of the free trial offer to their game.
No trial account players are worse off as a result of this change. No subscribing players are better off as a result of this change.
You cannot therefore call it "pay to win". If you want to make an argument that people are going to call it "pay to win", then have at it, but please don't be part of the problem.
See, I would agree with you if we want to view things from the perspective of an already paying customer. But I'm not. I'm looking at things as a new customer. And from that perspective, those ammos absolutely are pay to win. What I'm getting at is that the alpha clone isn't sufficient to bring people into the game. It needs more. -Liang Looking at things as a new customer should first and foremost make it clear that paying a sub unlocks the full game. That's different from winning. It's made very clear that as an Alpha clone you aren't getting everything there is same as the trial. Functionally a reasonable person should know what it is and designing for the unreasonable is a losing proposition. |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
23
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 23:23:41 -
[1013] - Quote
ok guys thing is really simple here:
single scenario:
you have newcommer alpha clone player, he hooks up into the game and at some point decides to.. lets say go for some low sec PvP
so he grabs his t1 desroyer, fit it with t1 fit, maybe if was lucky to receive proper instruction he'll load it with factional ammo [he should have access to that, right?]
so he goes to the lowsec, and is utterly anihilated by the very first assault frig he meets, or even better a tactical destroyer
he looks up the ship that pwned him and realise that looking by numbers, that ship is superior to his - now blown to pieces t1 dessie. also he realises that he cannot use it until he pays real money [or farm for plex]
at this point possibility of two possible outcomes can emerge:
if he started playing game believing EvE has turned f2p, [which is possible for th moment being considering all the press forgetting actuall definitions of stuff and not-so-straight-way-of-CCP-saying-things] he WILL find it extremely p2w [let us remember we talk here about 100% fresh player with decent ability to use his brain]
the other case - if he was for the whole time fully aware that alpha clone is nothing more than trial account wihout time limit slapped ontop of it, he won't get the wrong idea about game being p2w, will move on and is more likely to consider buying the sub on the later date to enjoy those shinier toys.
What is really important now though is for CCP to properly accent the truth about alpha clones, before people will flock to "now-f2p-eve" only to start spewing crosss the internetz how eve is "p2w rubbish" |
motie one
Secret Passage
108
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 23:30:24 -
[1014] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:ok guys thing is really simple here:
single scenario:
you have newcommer alpha clone player, he hooks up into the game and at some point decides to.. lets say go for some low sec PvP
so he grabs his t1 desroyer, fit it with t1 fit, maybe if was lucky to receive proper instruction he'll load it with factional ammo [he should have access to that, right?]
so he goes to the lowsec, and is utterly anihilated by the very first assault frig he meets, or even better a tactical destroyer
he looks up the ship that pwned him and realise that looking by numbers, that ship is superior to his - now blown to pieces t1 dessie. also he realises that he cannot use it until he pays real money [or farm for plex]
at this point possibility of two possible outcomes can emerge:
if he started playing game believing EvE has turned f2p, [which is possible for th moment being considering all the press forgetting actuall definitions of stuff and not-so-straight-way-of-CCP-saying-things] he WILL find it extremely p2w [let us remember we talk here about 100% fresh player with decent ability to use his brain]
the other case - if he was for the whole time fully aware that alpha clone is nothing more than trial account wihout time limit slapped ontop of it, he won't get the wrong idea about game being p2w, will move on and is more likely to consider buying the sub on the later date to enjoy those shinier toys.
What is really important now though is for CCP to properly accent the truth about alpha clones, before people will flock to "now-f2p-eve" only to start spewing crosss the internetz how eve is "p2w rubbish"
I think, most even partially rational human beings will realise from the start that there is a difference if you pay money. That hardly counts as pay to win though.
But in this world where a bag of peanuts has a label saying "warning may contain nuts" you may be right.
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4420
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 23:34:04 -
[1015] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:ok guys thing is really simple here:
single scenario:
you have newcommer alpha clone player, he hooks up into the game and at some point decides to.. lets say go for some low sec PvP
so he grabs his t1 desroyer, fit it with t1 fit, maybe if was lucky to receive proper instruction he'll load it with factional ammo [he should have access to that, right?]
so he goes to the lowsec, and is utterly anihilated by the very first assault frig he meets, or even better a tactical destroyer
he looks up the ship that pwned him and realise that looking by numbers, that ship is superior to his - now blown to pieces t1 dessie. also he realises that he cannot use it until he pays real money [or farm for plex]
at this point possibility of two possible outcomes can emerge:
if he started playing game believing EvE has turned f2p, [which is possible for th moment being considering all the press forgetting actuall definitions of stuff and not-so-straight-way-of-CCP-saying-things] he WILL find it extremely p2w [let us remember we talk here about 100% fresh player with decent ability to use his brain]
the other case - if he was for the whole time fully aware that alpha clone is nothing more than trial account wihout time limit slapped ontop of it, he won't get the wrong idea about game being p2w, will move on and is more likely to consider buying the sub on the later date to enjoy those shinier toys.
What is really important now though is for CCP to properly accent the truth about alpha clones, before people will flock to "now-f2p-eve" only to start spewing crosss the internetz how eve is "p2w rubbish"
This is really the crux of what I'm getting at. However, it's actually a bit worse.
A few new players start Eve together. They've heard how much fun the game is, and they're eager to try it out. They're on alpha clones since the game just went free to play, and they're well aware of the limits they've got - T1 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers. They spend a bit of time skill training, running missions, mining, and generally seeing what the game has to offer. Then one of them has the great idea to try PVP.
They buy some fancy meta fit Comets and do enough research to know that going into a novice plex will mean they won't get slaughtered by scary T3Ds, T3s, battlecruisers, or capitals. They find a plex with a couple of guys also in Comets. They go in. And then they get wrecked. The five of them managed to gang up and kill one of them, but overall they lost everyone. They go and look at the single killmail they got. Of course. He fit pay to win guns and pay to win ammo.
**** this game.
-Liang
Ed: It's funny, but the overwhelming importance of Scorch, Barrage, and Null will make scram kiting the new pay-to-win mechanic in novice plexes.
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
|
Dom Analema
Dom's Shaved Ice Shack
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 23:42:09 -
[1016] - Quote
#T2forAlpha |
Marsha Mallow
2903
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 23:46:29 -
[1017] - Quote
Liang, when was the last time you did small gang pvp in lowsec? The preferred ship I've seen in use both by friends I fly with and others I watch soloing on stream appears to be the tristan. They win fights in these ships already with a meta fit. T2 fitting does not guarantee a win. Module tiericide has made sub t2 fitting much more viable - perhaps this was part of an internal roadmap to pave the way for this change?
Also, if being restricted on trial/alpha is a pay to win sign, it's already in place. Massive amounts of skills already have trial restrictions. But let's be honest here, subbing your account to unlock skills hardly equates to 'winning' eve, and neither does going out and selling a load of plex to buy a wtfpwnmobile or millions of SP via injectors. In fact the reverse, if the new player is dumb enough to try buy their way to success. Yet again, this argument was used over the introduction of tradable SP - that it would encourage new players to try skip over the acquisition of ingame skill acquired over time in favour of buying raw sp, which they would then feel cheated over. I haven't seen a single complaint from a new player of this nature since SP trading was introduced, so whoever came up with that one has a bit of explaining to do.
@ CCP - these complaints in the thread about developer responses being made on reddit seem fair. If confirmation of specifics is being made (such as Manifest's remark that the NPE will be revamped by November, or Fozzie confirming Alpha accounts can use the Gnosis) they need to be relinked into the original blog and possibly the OP here. This topic is already hard enough to follow as a single threadnaught let alone trying to keep an eye on 2 forums because devs are chosing to ignore their own forum. This really needs to stop btw, you are feeding this argument that devs are more willing to engage with potential players on reddit as opposed to their existing customers. It's a bad signal to be putting out.*
*ed. I do understand the desire to engage with potential and unsubbed players, but the information being issued needs to be rigorously duplicated or centralised so we can all follow it.
Svara - haha u said flow
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5184
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 23:50:45 -
[1018] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:ok guys thing is really simple here:
single scenario:
you have newcommer alpha clone player, he hooks up into the game and at some point decides to.. lets say go for some low sec PvP
so he grabs his t1 desroyer, fit it with t1 fit, maybe if was lucky to receive proper instruction he'll load it with factional ammo [he should have access to that, right?]
so he goes to the lowsec, and is utterly anihilated by the very first assault frig he meets, or even better a tactical destroyer
he looks up the ship that pwned him and realise that looking by numbers, that ship is superior to his - now blown to pieces t1 dessie. also he realises that he cannot use it until he pays real money [or farm for plex]
at this point possibility of two possible outcomes can emerge:
if he started playing game believing EvE has turned f2p, [which is possible for th moment being considering all the press forgetting actuall definitions of stuff and not-so-straight-way-of-CCP-saying-things] he WILL find it extremely p2w [let us remember we talk here about 100% fresh player with decent ability to use his brain]
the other case - if he was for the whole time fully aware that alpha clone is nothing more than trial account wihout time limit slapped ontop of it, he won't get the wrong idea about game being p2w, will move on and is more likely to consider buying the sub on the later date to enjoy those shinier toys.
What is really important now though is for CCP to properly accent the truth about alpha clones, before people will flock to "now-f2p-eve" only to start spewing crosss the internetz how eve is "p2w rubbish"
And lets further assume he pays a sub, gets into a svipul, and then heads off to LS and....gets blown to smithereens again, now by 2 guys in some other ships he has not yet skilled.....
A sub is not pay to win. It is pay for more access.
And are we really to believe that this will not be made abundantly clear to players when they are registering? I suppose they could just ignore any such messaging, but isn't that kind of on them?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56298
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:07:26 -
[1019] - Quote
Zappity wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:I can't believe I went through and read 42 pages, liked a bunch of the replies and quoted those that mirrored my own feelings about this topic which is basically NO, NO, NO.
Maybe I'm mistaken but for some reason I seem to remember years and years ago CCP saying quite a few times that this game would never be Free to Play or Pay to Win.
Within my 8+ years of playing this game, I've seen way too many good Dev's get fired and this game has been hurting for it ever since, especially in the last couple of years. Recently it seems the term 'New Content' mainly refers to graphics being redone or needless changes to UI or implementing drastic changes to game mechanics basically placing rules and restrictions on game play, etc.
Trying to portray the topic of this Dev Blog and thread as 'New Content' is an insult since it's actually an announcement about changes to subscription policy, more importantly, it totally goes against the core aspect that this game was founded on. Course the same was said years ago about introducing Micro Transactions into the game.
Anyway, despite all the objections posted in various threads about this topic, CCP will do what they want. I won't log into the game as much as I use to do but I'll definitely keep this account subbed so my character can continue training skills. I hope CCP will soon see the folly of their ways, come back to their senses and get back to releasing game expansions that produce excellent game content. That is what gains paid subscriptions. Having that content be bug free and not break any existing content is what keeps paid subscriptions.
If not, at least I'll be able to say I was there when Eve was real.
DMC Why don't you wait for your dire prognostications to come true before quitting? The subscription model had undoubtedly been hindering EVE's growth in recent years. The market had changed and people are much more willing to spend money for spending isk than a subscription. Heh, I never said I was quitting. Maybe you should really read what's posted first before making a reply.
By the way, the reason for Eve's growth being in decline over the past few years isn't due to subscription costs. It's due to CCP constantly introducing sub-par expansions and changing game mechanics which only encourages high sec griefing.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
108
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:13:59 -
[1020] - Quote
You know what all these Alpha toons are gonna call Omega toons?
Pay to win!
When all these Alpha toons see current players (Soon to be Omega pilots) flying and using things they can't on a free account, and stomping all over them everywhere, they will not think EVE is F2P game, they will see itnas Pay To Win game.
So ironically, EVE will become pay to win by allowing F2P lol.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
296
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:20:37 -
[1021] - Quote
Slowy....Thanks Dryson....I would like to ask this question.
Your clone state will be determined by your account status. Characters on subscribed or PLEXed accounts will be granted Omega state, while Alpha state will be given to characters on any unsubscribed account.
I know what a subscribed account is but this unsubscribed account is rather perplexing. Wouldn't an unsubscribed account be someone that doesn't even interact with the environment? Basically everyone on Earth is getting an Alpha Capsule, correct? |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1472
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:24:26 -
[1022] - Quote
Toobo wrote:You know what all these Alpha toons are gonna call Omega toons?
Pay to win!
When all these Alpha toons see current players (Soon to be Omega pilots) flying and using things they can't on a free account, and stomping all over them everywhere, they will not think EVE is F2P game, they will see itnas Pay To Win game.
So ironically, EVE will become pay to win by allowing F2P lol.
Yeah its going from "pay to play" to "pay to win." CCP just need to make it clear that they really only intend the alpha to be for extended trials and for when people are mostly dormant from the game. Alpha is not intended for serious business spaceships.
But your post is prophetic.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8669
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:28:12 -
[1023] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote: @ CCP - these complaints in the thread about developer responses being made on reddit seem fair. If confirmation of specifics is being made (such as Manifest's remark that the NPE will be revamped by November, or Fozzie confirming Alpha accounts can use the Gnosis) they need to be relinked into the original blog and possibly the OP here. This topic is already hard enough to follow as a single threadnaught let alone trying to keep an eye on 2 forums because devs are chosing to ignore their own forum. This really needs to stop btw, you are feeding this argument that devs are more willing to engage with potential players on reddit as opposed to their existing customers. It's a bad signal to be putting out.*
CCP staffers post more frequently on Reddit because their brand and reputation have a *lot* more overall public exposure in a venue where they cannot completely control the narrative like they do here. The last thing CCP wants (from a PR perspective) is for accusations, complaints and potential misinformation to foment and go unanswered where they have so much public exposure.
Simply put: Threadnaughts there get more attention because it could damage CCP's business reputation if they did not respond. This is not exclusive to CCP, many other companies have had to "attend" Reddit in the same fashion, lest they suffer bad PR consequences.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
650
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:32:59 -
[1024] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote: @ CCP - these complaints in the thread about developer responses being made on reddit seem fair. If confirmation of specifics is being made (such as Manifest's remark that the NPE will be revamped by November, or Fozzie confirming Alpha accounts can use the Gnosis) they need to be relinked into the original blog and possibly the OP here. This topic is already hard enough to follow as a single threadnaught let alone trying to keep an eye on 2 forums because devs are chosing to ignore their own forum. This really needs to stop btw, you are feeding this argument that devs are more willing to engage with potential players on reddit as opposed to their existing customers. It's a bad signal to be putting out.*
CCP staffers post more frequently on Reddit because their brand and reputation have a *lot* more overall public exposure in a venue where they cannot completely control the narrative like they do here. The last thing CCP wants (from a PR perspective) is for accusations, complaints and potential misinformation to foment and go unanswered where they have so much public exposure. Simply put: Threadnaughts there get more attention because it could damage CCP's business reputation if they did not respond. This is not exclusive to CCP, many other companies have had to "attend" Reddit in the same fashion, lest they suffer bad PR consequences. While true, they really need to learn to put the information they put there on here, as well.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Circumstantial Evidence
356
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:44:24 -
[1025] - Quote
Because lots of ppl read various social media, info "out there" comes back to official forums (of any game) fairly quickly.
People on the limited-time trials today can complain that the game is "pay to win," from their perspective. But they face a deadline where they must decide to pay, or move on to some other game. No more deadline.
@DrysonBennington: all "unsubscribed" (unpaid, inactive) accounts will become minimally usuable thanks to the new "alpha clone" mechanics.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56298
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:45:39 -
[1026] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote: @ CCP - these complaints in the thread about developer responses being made on reddit seem fair. If confirmation of specifics is being made (such as Manifest's remark that the NPE will be revamped by November, or Fozzie confirming Alpha accounts can use the Gnosis) they need to be relinked into the original blog and possibly the OP here. This topic is already hard enough to follow as a single threadnaught let alone trying to keep an eye on 2 forums because devs are chosing to ignore their own forum. This really needs to stop btw, you are feeding this argument that devs are more willing to engage with potential players on reddit as opposed to their existing customers. It's a bad signal to be putting out.*
CCP staffers post more frequently on Reddit because their brand and reputation have a *lot* more overall public exposure in a venue where they cannot completely control the narrative like they do here. The last thing CCP wants (from a PR perspective) is for accusations, complaints and potential misinformation to foment and go unanswered where they have so much public exposure. Simply put: Threadnaughts there get more attention because it could damage CCP's business reputation if they did not respond. This is not exclusive to CCP, many other companies have had to "attend" Reddit in the same fashion, lest they suffer bad PR consequences. While true, they really need to learn to put the information they put there on here, as well. Yeah, and that info should be posted here first.
This is the Official Eve Online Forums, right ?
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Top Belt for Fun
4425
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:52:40 -
[1027] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Liang, when was the last time you did small gang pvp in lowsec? The preferred ship I've seen in use both by friends I fly with and others I watch soloing on stream appears to be the tristan. They win fights in these ships already with a meta fit. T2 fitting does not guarantee a win. Module tiericide has made sub t2 fitting much more viable - perhaps this was part of an internal roadmap to pave the way for this change?
Almost every night for the last 6 weeks or so? I live in the Amarr/Minnie FW zone (Amamake) with Liang, and the only alt I log into is in the Amarr FW. If you check my killboards you'll find that I spend a huge amount of time flying a T2/meta fit Executioner. The Tristan's pretty good, and I almost went with it. It's a pretty good example too. The restrictions on an alpha account will make me do 2-3x as much DPS and have 2-3x as much EHP.
That said, I've been out of game for about a week (a bit less on one of my altS). I've been taking some time to work, replay Alpha Protocol, and watch Jessica Jones.
-Liang
I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8669
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:53:38 -
[1028] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote: While true, they really need to learn to put the information they put there on here, as well.
Ideally, yes, but CCP has never been good at marketing or the dissemination of accurate, consistent information...EVER.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Marsha Mallow
2906
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 00:53:53 -
[1029] - Quote
You snipped my edit doc, reread the original post.
Funny thing as well, for all that some prefer reddit because of the branched discussions and the way upvotes re-arrange topics supposedly from good to bad, even though wading through topics like this is sometimes a chore all comments are read and all are visible. The fact that some of us prefer eve-o should be respected - it's the forum we've created, for all it's quirks.
Demonstrating a preference for one or the other at a company level might be solid practice in the gaming world but antagonising segments of the community against each other is not. I really don't understand how this can be so hard to comprehend or why it is being so consistently ignored, especially given that the complaint has been made by many of the more thoughtful and constructive posters. Stop treating us with such obvious disdain. Good will is not infinite.
Svara - haha u said flow
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 01:03:50 -
[1030] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote: While true, they really need to learn to put the information they put there on here, as well.
Ideally, yes, but CCP has never been good at marketing or the dissemination of accurate, consistent information...EVER.
CCP Developers should be posting official confirmations on CCP forums as well as any third party forums regardless.
Many players don't read Reddit and should not be forced to in order to get the current official picture of any feature regarding this game.
CCP Developers regularly bypassing Eve Online forums and using third party sites to communicate with a portion of the Eve Community is totally unprofessional IMO.
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Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 01:12:55 -
[1031] - Quote
Agreed. Reddit is garbage. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8671
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 01:20:35 -
[1032] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote: While true, they really need to learn to put the information they put there on here, as well.
Ideally, yes, but CCP has never been good at marketing or the dissemination of accurate, consistent information...EVER. CCP Developers should be posting official confirmations on CCP forums as well as any third party forums regardless. Many players don't read Reddit and should not be forced to in order to get the current official picture of any feature regarding this game. CCP Developers regularly bypassing Eve Online forums and using third party sites to communicate with a portion of the Eve Community is totally unprofessional IMO.
You are 3x correct. Doc is not white-knighting for CCP, they really just are that bad at communication and Community Management.
Looking at the bigger picture: how much longer do you think CCP will operate these forums in the same capacity as they have historically when they have repeatedly demonstrated they are primarily focused on obtaining new players, and Reddit provides a free venue to do both, including moderation and features not available here. We already know they are planning another forum "revamp", which in CCP terms could mean anything from replacement up to and including removal.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
111
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 01:41:56 -
[1033] - Quote
There's nothing wrong with using another website/SNS/forums to do PR work. All companies do this to reach wider audience.
But when it comes to EVE development/upcoming features/visions/work in progress/looking for community feedback on wild ideas for future, etc, etc, it HAS TO happen on EVE Forums - "You heard it here first!"
They can post 'simultaneously' on multiple platforms - ok fair enough. But using other channels BEFORE posting it on official EVE forums is just sh*t.
This may be a bit silly analogy, but how would you feel if a government minister posted on reddit,
"We are thinking about increasing tax by 200% and cutting down on social benefits to half. Your life may be affected but don't quote me on this - this is not an official press release or policy announcement anyway, it's only reddit, i.e. I can say whatever I want here and this is only reddit so it's unofficial hence I take absolutely no responsibility.
For official announcement of the new tax policy wait for the official government press release - by then we probably made our decisions based on feedbacks from this reddit thread & the policy would have been decided, so give us your feedbacks here on reddit, because people should be responsible and keep up to date with threads on Reddit right?
When the official press release is announced by the official spokes person for the government, you just lay down and take it as we give ya (because we already gave you chance to communicate with us on Reddit).
PS: BTW, as a rough idea, what you guys think about us implementing conscription policy? we thinking maybe 10 years of mandatory service in the armed forces for all boys and girls aged over 12. There are some other issues, such as legalising torture and building nuclear weapons, but we will open separate reddit thread for those
NOTE: Don't forget to follow us on Twitter too! We announce all the important life affecting national policy ideas on our Twitter account first! Also, don't bother tuning into government owned national broadcast TV channel for the news, because all the important bits will be shown on Youtube and Twitch first!"
erm... yeah.... :p
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 01:48:15 -
[1034] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: ... Looking at the bigger picture: how much longer do you think CCP will operate these forums in the same capacity as they have historically when they have repeatedly demonstrated they are primarily focused on obtaining new players, and Reddit provides a free venue to do both, including moderation and features not available here. We already know they are planning another forum "revamp", which in CCP terms could mean anything from replacement with something worse, up to and including removal.
I would be totally cool with CCP offloading most of the discussion forums to a third party site that was controlled by a entity who does not play this game or could not moderate it in a way to promote their own agenda regarding the game. I am not sure Reddit fits that description.
But, any Blogs / New Feature discussions or official responses to questions regarding those should be done on a CCP owned and controlled site.
Though I do agree that CCP may be heading in a direction to dump everything they can in order to cut costs. They could end up dumping more than they should, but we can only hope they don't.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
373
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 01:56:47 -
[1035] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Blimey, so EVE finally goes free to play, based on the SWTOR model. Be interesting to see what happens. Bikinis everywhere.
I know, they don't want it to be that kind of game. That just means it's another sacred cow to slaughter.
A signature :o
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
672
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 01:57:34 -
[1036] - Quote
I tried using Reddit once, specifically looking for EvE news updates. And it's a complete mess. Looking at it again right now to confirm, I'd never use a forum like that, popular or not, until they updated their format. It looks like the sort of haphazard web design you might have gotten from a hastily created forum in the late 90's. Indented conversation lines? I honestly hadn't seen that since the turn of the century (except zkill. And it looks terrible and obsolete there, too).
The EvE forums here are nicely formatted, nested quotes are easy to understand and follow conversation, we have backgrounds and colors that are easy on the eyes, and we don't have a ton of high-contrast ads and sub-links on the right side of the page. These forums are, as forums should be. Reddit looks like a virus and trojan claptrap and I already feel like I should be running my AV software because those forums just look that shady.
If devs want to use Reddit, well, I honestly don't have a problem with that. Other people listed good reasons for devs to do so. But there is no excuse for updating Reddit but not updating here where their actual playerbase is asking for information. Whichever one they want to update first, whatever, so long as the other party gets it immediately thereafter as well. If the information is to be disseminated, you can't go around telling complete strangers and hoping that some of them will eventually tell the playerbase. That's like calling your mother to ask how she's doing, but instead of telling you, she tells some random neighbor and hopes said neighbor will call you back to let you know.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1975
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 02:10:05 -
[1037] - Quote
One thing I'll note regarding Reddit in particular is that there seems to be more information specifically sought from other sources and shared there. And this in done mostly by non-CCP posters. Tweets, info gathered from presentations (eve vegas/fanfest/etc) seems to be captured, broken down and disseminated far father there than here if it hits here at all (and ironically when it does it's often a complaint about CCP posting it on reddit when it's actually a player who managed a screen grab).
This is of course an anecdotal observation, but given the idea that one needs to be in some way invested to post here, sometime the ones over there act as if things are the reverse.
Also they automate capture of dev blogs so the official forums doesn't even have that advantage. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56300
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 02:43:37 -
[1038] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: We already know they are planning another forum "revamp", which in CCP terms could mean anything from replacement with something worse, up to and including removal. Judging from CCP's recent track record, I'd bet these forums will be removed. Just like the Jukebox, Ingame Browser, Evelopedia, Aura NPE and other various aspects of this game.
I hate to say this but it looks like the Die is cast.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1110
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 02:53:47 -
[1039] - Quote
Wait wat pay to win. Nah joking sounds good I was already thinking to stop paying eve but this well sounds good. lets hoop it is. |
Circumstantial Evidence
356
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 02:59:00 -
[1040] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Doc Fury wrote: We already know they are planning another forum "revamp", which in CCP terms could mean anything from replacement with something worse, up to and including removal. Judging from CCP's recent track record, I'd bet these forums will be removed. .... CCP Falcon has solicited feedback on a forums revamp or replacement in this thread.
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Max Groote
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 04:07:40 -
[1041] - Quote
This is a great change IMO: it actually drove me to resubscribe and start training my skills up so that I'm ready when November hits.
Some specific feedback: Character sheet: I know this is a WIP, but the sideways text is really hard to read and the grid arrangement doesn't make any sense (also, a significant increase in real-estate required). Overall this seems like a significant step back in UX, but hopefully the final design ends up looking a lot like the current character sheet, which is both nice to look at *and* highly functional. Everything should be listed vertically for compactness and to avoid a character sheet that bloats sideways to gigantic proportions as new skills/skill categories are added.
Multiple Alpha Clones: There absolutely needs to be a restriction of 1 Alpha clone per computer, just like how you can only run one trial per computer right now. If this is not done, there will be hordes of free alts run by existing vets, which I don't think is the intended consequence of this change. In addition, just like the existing trial restrictions, 1 Alpha clone should only be allowed to fly when there are no subbed accounts active (otherwise every existing vet will end up with a scout for free, which would take away from the incentive to sub another account to gain that powerful capability)
Gas Huffing: I can see why you chose to not allow Alpha clones to harvest gas (free gas farming by vets), but with the changes above new players will be able to experience the excitement of gas mining in a wormhole (because it honestly is exciting, active gameplay if you don't want to die) without causing hordes of multi-boxed Ventures to ravage wormholes. One Alpha clone active per computer won't negatively impact new players looking for some excitement, but it will prevent Alpha clone abuse.
High-Sec Mechanics: I imagine that even with the above changes, high-sec podding will increase if Alpha clones are allowed to do so (why not? It's a free account anyway). In my opinion, alpha clones should not be allowed to switch into "red safeties" in high-sec, but this is something that I would be willing to see tested live instead of changed right now.
Thanks for reading, and great work on these initial changes! |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
359
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 04:14:25 -
[1042] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote: ACs on mini ships without barrage are not that bad, scorch is life for pulses tho.
The reason why T2 guns (and to smaller extent tanking modules) are "pay to win" is not because T1 could never win but because if two ships of equal skill meet in space the one with T2 guns is at such an advantage that the dude with T1 guns would be unlikely to win. That this never or ultra rarely happens is irrelevant as the perception in this matter is what is important. If the free-to-play dude figures out that he is at significant disadvantage against paying customer and no amount of "git guud" will make him win a fight against roughly equal skill paying customer he is exceptionally unlikely to stick around long enough to invest sufficient time into the game to spend money on it. On top of EVE getting "pay to win" sticker all over the net discouraging any potential new dudes joining.
It will not be only classical EVE problem but in turn also give worse image to any other projects CCP is up to which are also free-to-play, like, dor example, Valkyrie or (potentially) upcoming Dust 514 successor. Even if in these games the free-to-play model would be well balanced and not a clear pay-to-win.
Some amount of pay-to-win argument can not be avoided as there must be restrictions on free accounts obviously. But if the Alpha dude can fly at least something as good as Omega can one can argue against this notation by pointing out how the playing field is fair in the intended niche of Alphas. Frigates are ideal in that regard as there is sufficient amount of frigate reserved content in EVE to give the Alpha good experience. Frigate wormholes, FW, L4 burners, smallest anomalies and some fleet roles are first things that come from top of my head. Even with properly competitive access to skills and equipment at frigate level the Alphas would be at disadvantage in some scenarios, like, for example, in frigate wormholes because of no access to a cloak even if they would be able to fly, for example, sisters frigate.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Zozoll Neblyn
Ziggurat Forge
26
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 04:50:14 -
[1043] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Zozoll Neblyn wrote: You can train frigate skills, sure. But you can only train a few skills to level 5. So a frigate flying alpha is always less powerful than a well trained omega on the same ship.
Try 20 people with assault rifles against a thousand with bows and arrows... tell me how that works out for ya.
In Eve online?
Are we talking one or a few players spamming alts? Can we assume they won't break Eula by attempting to automate anything?
If you're towing a fleet of multibox Vexors behind you, then all it takes is one guy in an Oracle with long range lasers parked outside their drone range to make that get messy.
If it's a mining fleet, that will be exceptionally fun to blow up.
You don't try to wipe out the whole fleet, just kill a few, and then get out before they can coordinate. |
Lathael
Liga der aussergewoehnlichen Tattergreise Evictus.
35
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 05:19:36 -
[1044] - Quote
Hi,
here my feedback:
I assume that multiple character training will decline because you can have a free training queue on a fresh account for free. That may not be the case if those alpha clones do not get skill points (or not many) for mining, PI, trading. => Maybe less income from multiple training for CCP.
People like me that like to gain fast skill points on their main character can do this with this change and enjoy PVP with an alternative character. We can enjoy battles without risking expensive attribute implants. => More activity in PVP from players that do not want to invest money in multiple training and have expensive implants or like high skill point gain.
I know many people that would like to join eve here and there, but are not willing to pay for a month. You get brand new games for that money out there. I see here a very big plus. And PLEX farming and be exhausting and need some time that some people are not willed to invest in a game. => Casual gamers will join us from time to time. More activity from that faction. => Same for beginners.
In my opinion this step is brave and good move of CCP and they get an epic clap from my side! |
Crack Spawn
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 05:36:44 -
[1045] - Quote
Lathael wrote:Hi,
get an epic clap from my side!
Does one need to buy you dinner to get clap ?
|
May'n Nome
Elements Arpeggio Vesperia
31
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 06:03:20 -
[1046] - Quote
CCP, here is some more feedback I just thought of tonight. The Wardec system either needs a complete overhaul or dumped entirely as well for the November Release or Alpha Clones.
I remember very well how hard it could be to do stuff in Hisec with pilots from PIRAT and CD sometimes coming around looking for kills or gatecamping common movement routes. The way the system is now allows these entities to pretty much get away with ganking without the risk of CONCORD. Most of them sit on Trade Hubs anyways and rarely venture beyond these areas.
I doubt this was the intent of the Wardec system to allow a perma-wardec on various corps and alliances just because someone wants to circumvent CONCORD to shoot targets that can not shoot back and otherwise can not defend themselves. Risk is part of the game but the Hi-sec Wardeccers should have a fair share in that risk themselves. Right now, they really do not as they are very risk averse and do not like losing their ships.
Now moving on to the reason why this connects to the launch of the Clone States Feature....
Now imagine all these new Alpha Clones getting in, joining various corps...and then comes the Wardecs. Now they can't move around Hisec without someone getting to blow them up and they are powerless against the bling ships + fits some of these groups fly to do what they do.
I do not think the above will go over well with the new players as they join up and fan out into New Eden, expecting Hi-Sec to be a safe haven and finding that people can pay ISK to circumvent CONCORD.
Now what can be done to fix this?
Well if scrapping the system is out...why not make waging more than 5 or 10 Wardecs cost standings and security across the board not just for every Wardec after the initial 5 or 10 but also tie it to length of time the War goes on. Every week after that first initial week should cost standings...maybe in the -0.1 to -0.5 Range.
We can also make the costs of waging a Wardec past the first week increase in cost for each week after. So 500k per person one week potentially becomes 1 million ISK per person next week and the third week it shoots up to 2 million before week four sees it at 4 million per person...and so on but hopefully you get the idea. Sooner or later, they run out of cash flow to sustain their wars as it just becomes too expensive to do what they do.
To prevent them from just being able to have just enough to meet the upper limit...set no upper limit. They sooner or later lose money or have to stop and wait to recover their funding to do so. I doubt they get enough ISK to cover the 70-120 Wardecs the wage. Even that is hitting into stupendous amounts of money that at a certain point they can not sustain.
So basically if you can't get them to risk their ships...make them risk their security status and wallets instead.
"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17952
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:07:43 -
[1047] - Quote
Toobo wrote:You know what all these Alpha toons are gonna call Omega toons?
Pay to win!
When all these Alpha toons see current players (Soon to be Omega pilots) flying and using things they can't on a free account, and stomping all over them everywhere, they will not think EVE is F2P game, they will see itnas Pay To Win game.
So ironically, EVE will become pay to win by allowing F2P lol.
People have been calling multiple accounts "pay to win" since I started EVE in 2006.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
83
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:11:47 -
[1048] - Quote
Some feedback on industry side from talking about it with my friend who does way more industry than me.
We noticed that Alpha state clones can manufacture pretty much any T1 item. Including many capital modules or rigs (unless I missed something). Well at least they can construct battleships. If one wouldn't like them to be able to do that, I think limiting Alpha Industry to 3 and requiring industry 4 for BC and BS sized ships and modules and Industry 5 for capital stuff. Bad thing with this aproach is that it limits what Alpha could build.
Also we thougt that running 4 industry jobs might be too interesting for Omega players to create multiple Alpha alts so they get more industry lines for high volume T1 production (e.g. with those battleships or capital rigs..).. Presuming Alphas could learn only Mass Production 1 would limit the number of lines to 2 and thus would be too much overhead for Omega to use those (instead of Omega alts). Bad things with this is that generic Alpha player would probably feel really limited by the Mass Production skill.
Third idea is that we could reintroduce skill to effect material efficiency and limit that skill on Alpha characters. Thus removing change from Alphas to be as effecient as Omegas. Thus any Omega industrialist with max efficiency would probably use Omega alts.
None of above ideas are really nice and all have annoying side effects, but as it stands now Alphas industry skills might be too good to be leveraged by Omega pilots as extended industry lines. Our concerns of course might be non valid, but I still though I should log them down for CCP to read.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
363
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:18:54 -
[1049] - Quote
May'n Nome wrote: I doubt this was the intent of the Wardec system to allow a perma-wardec on various corps and alliances just because someone wants to circumvent CONCORD to shoot targets that can not shoot back and otherwise can not defend themselves. Risk is part of the game but the Hi-sec Wardeccers should have a fair share in that risk themselves. Right now, they really do not as they are very risk averse and do not like losing their ships.
While I do agree that wardec system is in need of the overhaul somehow I do not believe having Alphas around could be used as justification for that.
As it stands currently the usual trade-hub campers target predominantly sufficiently large null sec alliances. But they only get noobs or clueless that way because anyone with couple of braincells to rub togehter has NPC cor hauler alt in one of the spare slots in these entities or uses the in-alliance logistics backbone for their couriers. So it is pretty much at best mild inconvionience for null sec entities that all of them are more or less with permanent wardec from some entity or another.
Wardecs can be a lot more frustrating for hi-sec industrial entities probably but putting on their big boy pants and going to null solves that part as well. Null sec is actually safer for the average miner than hi-sec or god forbid, low sec. It's just that logistics is harder, it's not a solo things etc etc. But that is not any different to Alphas than it is to Omegas.
Similarly as Alphas will be free and have Industrial 1 they can be used for hauling stuff around (for the joy of all suicide gankers ofc).
I'll add that as Alphas cant use T2 ships nor Links they are no additional threat as far as the empire wardeccing scene goes.
Anyone can shoot back btw and defend themselves. Problem with empire tradehub campers, however, is the neutral logistics, offgrid neutral links, neutral eyes, etc etc etc. So the effort to get one of them in their shiny ship and shiny clone is a bit too much to bother with. They do bail the second they get the feeling that things might not go in their favor - they are not in it for fair fights.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
363
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:20:07 -
[1050] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
People have been calling multiple accounts "pay to win" since I started EVE in 2006.
EVE is just an MMO with 30 eur/month fee if one wants to get the full EVE experience (which starts at 2 accounts).
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5185
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:22:32 -
[1051] - Quote
Toobo wrote:You know what all these Alpha toons are gonna call Omega toons?
Pay to win!
When all these Alpha toons see current players (Soon to be Omega pilots) flying and using things they can't on a free account, and stomping all over them everywhere, they will not think EVE is F2P game, they will see itnas Pay To Win game.
So ironically, EVE will become pay to win by allowing F2P lol.
So let me get this staright.....
CCP gives players a way to play an unlimited trial account for no RL money. But because years ago I decided to pay for a sub and train my characters I'm....cheating?
Of course, CCP has given these guys a way to catch up to me instantly, yes it means opening up one's wallet. Seems only fair given that I have spent quite a bit of RL money to get where I am, requiring a new player to "instantly" catch to cost RL money....my God what a crazy idea.
How about you grow up and learn how things work both in game and in RL?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Dominique Vasilkovsky
338
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:24:55 -
[1052] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Think long and hard on this one CCP, you actually can mess up a lot if you don't do this one right.
Bringing new players in the game will refresh everything, but it has to be made successfully. I saw some games go down after wrong updates. CCP wants to introduce a change and Omega clones = win in every cases because you're so free with them. It's not pay to win. The alpha clones are just the candy to attract new players. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5185
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:27:58 -
[1053] - Quote
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Think long and hard on this one CCP, you actually can mess up a lot if you don't do this one right.
Bringing new players in the game will refresh everything, but it has to be made successfully. I saw some games go down after wrong updates. CCP wants to introduce a change and Omega clones = win in every cases because you're so free with them. It's not pay to win. The alpha clones are just the candy to attract new players.
Yeah, because my main has over 137 million SP I always win. Always.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2330
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:31:13 -
[1054] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Malcanis wrote:
People have been calling multiple accounts "pay to win" since I started EVE in 2006.
EVE is just an MMO with 30 eur/month fee if one wants to get the full EVE experience (which starts at 2 accounts).
This is the important point, you can only really play Eve effectively with two accounts, I either play with two accounts or de-sub and I am not into grinding for plex either. That is perhaps something that CCP needs to look into on top of this suggestion, I have raised this issue a number of times on the forums and suggested a number of different ways to do this, because CCP may need to control who has Alpha accounts perhaps looking into this aspect too would be a good idea.
I can tell CCP that were I able to run two characters under one sub I would not be de-subbing, I can also point out that from November when these Alpha accounts are available, I will log back on to chat to people, but I have no intention of undocking in any of my mains.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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NImbex Diprivan
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:32:42 -
[1055] - Quote
It is obvious the money is the reason (which is absolutely all right, to say this clearly!). And the category of the problem is GÇ£how to have the cookie and to eat this cookie at the same timeGÇ¥...
Either the market demanding F2P solutions will blow us out due to our P2P current business model or we convert to F2P. If we convert to F2P just like this, we need the source of money what means micro-transactions as a mandatory solution (damn... Incarnage...)
LetGÇÖs do something tricky...
So the plan is: 1.Encourage more people to try this GÇ£F2PGÇ¥ game, 2.Convince GÇ£the communityGÇ¥ that more players (Alphas) means more content, just to justify the change, 3.Convince the newcomers that GÇ£the full EVE experienceGÇ¥ is available on subscribed accounts (Omega) only and this is worth every penny, 4.Make them convert to subscribers, 5.Bring more ISK on CCPGÇÖs corporate wallet.
Commenta: Ad 1. This could be easy... Ad 2. This is not so easy... (read this thread to see why) Ad 3. This could be easy, but this means P2W from the newcomerGÇÖs point of view! (More skills = more options of gameplay available, faster skilling etc. Just for a modest price of 15$ monthly) Ad 4. Wow! This is not even P2W!!! This is P2BACOAF (be able to compete with Omegas in any field) (Ofc one can argue... there are many arguments why GÇ£10 Alphas in a fleet conceptGÇ¥ is superior to a single Omega. But Omega has also got friends...)
Hang on! We know this! It works in this manner at the moment!!!
Ad 5. LetGÇÖs be honest: there is no change but a sticker F2P, indeed. There is only some mess that can bring fatal consequences... remember 2011...
I will quote Bishop: GÇ£I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupidGÇ¥ Neither the newcomers nor the current subscribers are... So in terms of the corporate wallet... IGÇÖve serious doubts... But... nice attempt anyways.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
339
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:36:11 -
[1056] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Yeah, because my main has over 137 million SP I always win. Always.
With a character stacked to 5 million SP you do not have the pleasure to see your skills grow and your character evolve. So yes, Omega clone is better. Perhaps in pvp, alpha clones can fight Omega and win.
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2330
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:39:29 -
[1057] - Quote
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Yeah, because my main has over 137 million SP I always win. Always. With a character stacked to 5 million SP you do not have the pleasure to see your skills grow and your character evolve. So yes, Omega clone is better. Perhaps in pvp, alpha clones can fight Omega and win.
It is because he is not a very good player, just look at his Proteus loss and you will understand...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
|
Peter Ska
True Faces Hungary Executive Outcomes
3
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 07:52:57 -
[1058] - Quote
I couldn't read comments, sorry! (nah, not sorry at all)
Basically alpha clone will be the new trial acc, but instead time limit, it has strict skill limits. Q: Do you remove trial acc and buddy invite?
Multiple logins. Q: Do you plan to limit alpha state login like trial? My opinion is, you should. Limitless access to alpha clones make it a free addition to omega pilots one-man armies, with assisted drones, throwaway ganking squads, scam&stationtrade, FW farming, etc. Still there would be abuses via proxy servers, like it's not impossible to login a trial with a subscribed acc (not used cuz not much sense) but if it's bannable act for the omega clone, it wouldn't be a widely spread issue, as alpha clones are easier to manage than making new trials. |
Robby Rova
Rova Capital
49
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 08:38:58 -
[1059] - Quote
if you're going half way you might as well go all the way. In terms of balance I really don't think the alpha clones should be restricted so much. I get it you want people to sub to make money, but you also don't want people to be too limited to find out what they're missing out on. I feel Eve is ready for a F2P aspect but I honestly don't think these clone variants are the solution youre looking for. They seem out of place the more and more I think about them. You can do better than an over glorified trial account. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5891
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 08:45:17 -
[1060] - Quote
Any news on NPE updates from CCP Ghost's team?
Releasing a feature intended for new players without an awesome NPE seems a bit like horse-carting.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
|
|
Dominique Vasilkovsky
339
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 08:46:05 -
[1061] - Quote
Robby Rova wrote:if you're going half way you might as well go all the way. In terms of balance I really don't think the alpha clones should be restricted so much. I get it you want people to sub to make money, but you also don't want people to be too limited to find out what they're missing out on. I feel Eve is ready for a F2P aspect but I honestly don't think these clone variants are the solution youre looking for. They seem out of place the more and more I think about them. You can do better than an over glorified trial account.
True. 5M skillpoints is low. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56311
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 08:50:41 -
[1062] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Doc Fury wrote: We already know they are planning another forum "revamp", which in CCP terms could mean anything from replacement with something worse, up to and including removal. Judging from CCP's recent track record, I'd bet these forums will be removed. .... CCP Falcon has solicited feedback on a forums revamp or replacement in this thread. Yeah, I looked at it, even read some of the replies there and to be honest in my opinion that layout sux even more than this version.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Shaddn Arakh
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 08:56:57 -
[1063] - Quote
No multiboxing for alphas. No hi-sec piracy, ganking or grieving for alphas (safe mode lock). Other than that I think this is a great step forward and I hope it brings new blood to Eve.
P.S. I think you got the names wrong. Alphas must be the cool paying players (as in alpha-males) and omegas must be the free players. |
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
118
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:05:21 -
[1064] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Toobo wrote:You know what all these Alpha toons are gonna call Omega toons?
Pay to win!
When all these Alpha toons see current players (Soon to be Omega pilots) flying and using things they can't on a free account, and stomping all over them everywhere, they will not think EVE is F2P game, they will see itnas Pay To Win game.
So ironically, EVE will become pay to win by allowing F2P lol. So let me get this staright..... CCP gives players a way to play an unlimited trial account for no RL money. But because years ago I decided to pay for a sub and train my characters I'm....cheating? Of course, CCP has given these guys a way to catch up to me instantly, yes it means opening up one's wallet. Seems only fair given that I have spent quite a bit of RL money to get where I am, requiring a new player to "instantly" catch to cost RL money....my God what a crazy idea. How about you grow up and learn how things work both in game and in RL?
Dude, I'm not talking from an existing player's POV, which I obviously am and will immediately become Omega when this goes live.
I'm talking from a new Alpha players' POV. For me, who's been playing the game for nearly a decade, it doesn't change what I can do.
I said what I said because I believe CCP is introducing Alpha account as a marketing tool, not for players like you and I, but total eve virgins.
For them, it will seem like P2W, and I'm not sure that is a good perception for these noobs to have, so I'm questioning the pros and cons of Alpha accounts as a marketing tool and from brand management point of view.
That's how things work RL (as you ask me to grow up in RL...) - free stuff can be good, but it's not always the best marketing/sales strategy. I've seen companies suffer negative long term consequences because they managed free events and promotions in a wrong way.
Sure, you can say CCP is a successful company and has a dedicated professionals working on marketing and sales strategies so they 'should know better than you, forum idiot'.
Guess what, I too work in a marketing/sales/business development as a professional. I'm not commenting on this as an EVE vet or whatever, I'm genuinely questioning whether these Alpha accounts will have good long term beneficial effect as a marketing tool.
Even companies in Fortune 50 sometimes make major marketing blunder. There are valid questions we can ask to CCP whether something they have in plans is a good idea or not.
Getting back to the topoc - as a player I really don't care. I already have my SP and I can fly all the ships and fits I want. And yes I've paid for my subs long enough that I'm happy that I have something these free players won't - so I'm not arguing against you.
But from Alpha players' perspective, would it offer them good experience to commit cash to the game over long term?
That is debatable.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
364
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:08:30 -
[1065] - Quote
I would like to list what I believe would be reasonable restrictions on Alpha accounts and why I think so. This will be a fairly long post. But this is a change in EVE which importance is hard to unerestimate.
As it stands in the current proposal based on the devblog the currently planned limitations are following:
- Alphas will have reduced skill trainig rate.
- Alphas can only use specific set of skills at reduced max levels (while devblog claims Alhas can access "wide ranging, exciting EVE experience").
- Alphas explicitly will not have access to cyno gens or cloaking mods.
- No skill extraction while clone is in its Alpha state.
- Trail account style login restrictions (devs are still considering this one)
- IF it becomes an issue then set saefty yellow for Alphas, otherwise they would be coming initially with full access to all saefty settings.
- Racial lock to avoid allowed skill list from getting "too long" but instead there should be depth in it. Also no pirate faction ships (but faction variants accessible in the current state).
- Ship size restriction up to cruisers - to give Alphas meaningful impact on almost every activity and envirvement without causing any problems in the ecosystem.
The reasoning for these is given in the devblog to a large degree. I do agree with some of these restrictions as clearly needed, however, I have also disagreement with some as in my view these do not allow Alphas to fully experience or have a meaningful imact in EVE in a significant enough number of scenarios fitting for the noted hull classes. Two of these - the racial restriction and very limited skillset for the hulls under consideration I have already discussed in some of my previous posts in this thread.
Let me list what would be in my opinion reasonable list of limitations and why I think these would be better than what is proposed currently. I will first just list the limitations and elaborate after the enumerated list.
- Alphas will have reduced skill trainig rate. Reduced resource collection rate.
- Alphas have a reduced list of skills (but no max level cap for the allowed skills related to ship to ship combat). Industry related skills capped at "reasonable", relatively low levels. NO Racsial restriction.
- Any skill in Alphas allowed skill list can not be extracted at all in whatever state the clone is. No skill extraction in alpha state.
- Not able to submit any changes to the PI system in Alpha state (especially not starting another cycle or importing/exporting materials from PI colonies).
- Trial account style simultaneous login restriction on Alphas. Circumenventing the restriction bannable offence. However, allow up to two simultaenous Alpha accounts to be logged in.
- Saefty yellow in hi security space. No restrictions in low or null security space.
- Alpha clone list initially consisting only and only T1 frigates, however allowing also faction and pirate variants. Observe ~3 months, add destroyers if deemed nesseary. Observe ~3 months, add cruisers if deemed nesseary.
- Explicitly prevent use of Cynos, Cloaks, all E-War other than warp prevention (including e-war drones), Entosis modules. DO NOT allow Alphas to assign drones or set the drones on guard on another ship. Do NOT allow alphas to use FoF missiles. Basically anything that scales too well with minimial pilot interaction in PvP or PvE scenarios or is highly disruptive against substantially heavier fleet doctrines if used en-masse.
Now allow me to give a short reasoning why I believe these would be better than what is proposed currently. I'll have to post it as a separate post following this one because I am running into a character count limit per post.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
364
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:09:20 -
[1066] - Quote
1. This is the same. In my opinion the exclusion of number of social skills that increase mission payouts and LP gains would already cover the reduced resource collection rate that is common in F2P games for non-paying customers. I would leave to Alphas only social and connections basic skills. I.e., no skills that increase LP or isk gaining rate from missions regardless of mission type. Reduced resource collection rate is considered perfectly normal in F2P games. In addition it might be reasonable to apply an additional NPC tax on Alphas on bounties, perhaps something in the range of up to 25%.
2. Now with this I have an axe to grind as it quite clear from my previous posts. I'll just state again that as proposed that is way too much pay to win and way too little free to play. As an example see comparison between currently proposed "Alpha" pvp Omen example fit and an "Omega" fit which the same just with T2 modules and proper skills. I do not see how could anyone fathom how would Alpha come out on top from that engagement. Link to EFT numbers side by side: http://www.overclock.net/g/i/2864021/created-with-gimp/sort/display_order/ The T2 fit is doing 20% more damage at 22 km with Scorch than the Alpha would be doing at 6 km with Imperial Multifreq! On top of being 230 m/s faster, longer cap life, better buffer and resists and noticeably better damage application from the few drones the ship has. Unless the T2 pilot is completely clueless he is going to win that engagement any time of the day which is the very definition of pay to win! The example is for one specific fit and case but as proposed by the devblog the same situation is presient throughout all the possible fits that Alpha could field. Either do it properly or do not do it at all. Going only half way will just leave everyone pretty bitter. And ofc some of the restrictions go directly against core philosophy of EVE in my opinion, like racial restrictions, for example. Now in idustry the restrictions are quite reasonable as it scales way too well as it is currently implemented to allow Alphas into that sandbox. Couple of Ventures half-afk minind do not worry me too much even if they have max skills - if they are serious about it the guy will grind out enough for a plex and upgrade to Omega for getting access those sweet sweet mining barges. But for production you just have to do few cliks every some weeks, depending on what you are doing and what amoutn of resources you have available. To be clear the issue is not the new guys, the issue is old and bitter omegas taking advantage of 20+ Alpha accounts for making stuff. Industry scales oh so much better with the number of accounts one can throw at it than pvp and that is a problem.
3. No extraction of Alpha skills - I think that should take care of the worry about how much SP the Alpha can have.
4. PI scales way too well with the number of accounts one can throw at it as all it takes is few cliks every few days and hauling once or twice a month. Some special attention should be directed so that it is not possible to abuse the Alphas for that. It is mind numbingly boring way to play anyway and I hate PI with passion but I do these mindless clicks every once in a while for isk/h! Last I looked the number was roughly 200 mil/h doing it casually (2d cycles, hauling twice a month) in null null. It is also way too trivial to script it even by a simple mouse script as you always have to ckick exactly in the same places for a given account and setup.
5. The full EVE experience starts with two accounts. Sometimes it is told as a joke but in my observation this is actually true. Give them these 2 accounts. Or if you must limit it to the one account.
6. Not giving Alphas T2 guns will not make it much harder for them to gank people. While ganking is legitemate way to play the game these involved should face the consuquences of low sec status. Last I looked biomassing negative security ganker alts was classed as exploit - let them at least upgrade to Omega if they want to get concorded. Plus it would be way too easy to abuse the system from the server stability standpoint by rolling crapload of Alphas and getting them all concorded, for example, outside Jita 4-4 or on some busy gate in the pipe. If you must then yea, red is liveable as well.
7. Now this is one of the main points for which I have been driving. I do believe that for a person to stick around long enough to be invested in the game he has to have at least possibility of being close enough competitive with a paying customer in F2P game. In my proposal the Alpha has already a number of clear disadvantages: (1) reduced skill training rate, (2) reduced resource accumulation, (3) inability to fit certain modules deemed too disruptive for Alpha access. There is no need to cripple the Alpha to the point he is not even theoretically competitive with the Omega with similar fit in similar situation. I DO want these of the new guys who can handle EVE to stick around, but for that to happen they should be around long enough to find a group for themselves and/or have a goal which is reachable before they commit to be the paying customer. That is why I would propose for them to have only frigates at first but give them possibility to fly these as good as any Omega can! Fully skilling for frigate is already pretty long process - especially if you take into account reduced skill training rate. So the incentives are there to upgrade to Omega all the time. At the same time the frigate specific content is well fleshed out in EVE both pvp and pve wise so the Alphas would, in essence, get the "full experience" in that niche. Sooner or later they would want a larger hammer and would upgrade. Or if all they want to do they would be the free players - and let them be. By getting good they would be still an important part of EVE and would make the experience greater for all the paying customers as well.
to be continiued ...
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
364
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:10:07 -
[1067] - Quote
... continiued
8. That list is pretty self explanatioary - I would just specifically emphasize that anything that scales well with minimal pilot interaction should be prevented for alphas, like expecially drone assigning and FoF missiles. While latter are outright useless in pvp they do work surprisingly well in PvE if you get the aggro (usually done with target painter or a civilian gun). Now I'm not entirely certain about e-war other than warp scram/dirsuptor. They are pretty legitimate modules in EVE and most alliances have some newbro doctrines with them. At the same time, however, they are very fustrating for the one in receiving end and are quite powerful force multipliers. I am tiling more in favor of not allowing them for Alphas but I would not be crying a river if these would end up still being allowed. Now cynos and cloaks, uhh, then I would be claiming the end of the world as it is if Alphas could use these.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
NImbex Diprivan
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:21:54 -
[1068] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Toobo wrote:You know what all these Alpha toons are gonna call Omega toons?
Pay to win!
When all these Alpha toons see current players (Soon to be Omega pilots) flying and using things they can't on a free account, and stomping all over them everywhere, they will not think EVE is F2P game, they will see itnas Pay To Win game.
So ironically, EVE will become pay to win by allowing F2P lol. So let me get this staright..... CCP gives players a way to play an unlimited trial account for no RL money. But because years ago I decided to pay for a sub and train my characters I'm....cheating? Of course, CCP has given these guys a way to catch up to me instantly, yes it means opening up one's wallet. Seems only fair given that I have spent quite a bit of RL money to get where I am, requiring a new player to "instantly" catch to cost RL money....my God what a crazy idea. How about you grow up and learn how things work both in game and in RL? Dude, I'm not talking from an existing player's POV, which I obviously am and will immediately become Omega when this goes live. I'm talking from a new Alpha players' POV. For me, who's been playing the game for nearly a decade, it doesn't change what I can do. I said what I said because I believe CCP is introducing Alpha account as a marketing tool, not for players like you and I, but total eve virgins. For them, it will seem like P2W, and I'm not sure that is a good perception for these noobs to have, so I'm questioning the pros and cons of Alpha accounts as a marketing tool and from brand management point of view. That's how things work RL (as you ask me to grow up in RL...) - free stuff can be good, but it's not always the best marketing/sales strategy. I've seen companies suffer negative long term consequences because they managed free events and promotions in a wrong way. Sure, you can say CCP is a successful company and has a dedicated professionals working on marketing and sales strategies so they 'should know better than you, forum idiot'. Guess what, I too work in a marketing/sales/business development as a professional. I'm not commenting on this as an EVE vet or whatever, I'm genuinely questioning whether these Alpha accounts will have good long term beneficial effect as a marketing tool. Even companies in Fortune 50 sometimes make major marketing blunder. There are valid questions we can ask to CCP whether something they have in plans is a good idea or not. Getting back to the topoc - as a player I really don't care. I already have my SP and I can fly all the ships and fits I want. And yes I've paid for my subs long enough that I'm happy that I have something these free players won't - so I'm not arguing against you. But from Alpha players' perspective, would it offer them good experience to commit cash to the game over long term? That is debatable.
100% true.
And sooner or later a poor young Alpha will realize that he/she can become 150mil SP Omega... even tomorrow if neededGǪ for a moderate amount of USD, since skill injectors are available, and PLEX can be converted to ISKGǪ
OFC, we all know this possible in game today. But nobody was trying to convince us this was F2P game when we subscribedGǪ
As a new user of a F2P (!) game I would be slightly disappointed with such a discovery. Slightly enough not to subscribe. This is too much to pay to win... |
Drizzella
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:23:51 -
[1069] - Quote
Heres my two cents on the subject in general: There should also be a skill unlock tier system. What I mean is that the skills proposed is a great starting point for a new account. At the 5 million sp, they have those skills points listed unlocked. Now if someone subscribes or uses skill injectors/accelerators($$$), and they are able to increase their total sp to say like 20mil, It should unlock another sets of skills on an "alpha clone". This can be repeated at different levels of sp. For example: New player (5mil) -> 20mil -> 50 -> 80 - 100 -> etc.
This way it would entice new players to keep going ($$$) and entice returning players to keep playing and progressing($$$) while keeping a healthy playerbase. A good carrot at the end of the stick imho. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
364
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:34:49 -
[1070] - Quote
Drizzella wrote:Heres my two cents on the subject in general: There should also be a skill unlock tier system. What I mean is that the skills proposed is a great starting point for a new account. At the 5 million sp, they have those skills points listed unlocked. Now if someone subscribes or uses skill injectors/accelerators($$$), and they are able to increase their total sp to say like 20mil, It should unlock another sets of skills on an "alpha clone". This can be repeated at different levels of skill points. For example: New player (5mil) -> 20mil -> 50 -> 80 - 100 -> etc.
This way it would entice new players to keep going ($$$) and entice returning players to keep playing and progressing($$$) while keeping a healthy playerbase. A good carrot at the end of the stick imho.
I would argue that the core issue is not the total possible SP number but the level caps on the allowed skills. If the cap would be just, for example the same, 5 mil SP without the level caps I would not be screaming half as intently as I do currently. Ofc with just the total SP cap the issue would be the skill extractor abuse if nothing else is implemented.
I personally would put the cap much higher though. At minimum at ~10 mil SP, preferably somewhere around 20-ish. But much simpler would be just to make a good clear list of skills Alphas can have and just not put max cap on the levels in these. If a specific module or module group should be excluded from Alphas there is better way to do it than through capping the skills.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
|
Velores Prokhozai
WARP Mechanics Fidelas Constans
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:42:50 -
[1071] - Quote
If you want them (CCP) to allow use any T2 cruisers (and fraction) with any T2 fits for alpha clones - then I personally will never subcscribe any more, as a majoriry of other playes, so expect tranquility to go offline in 3 month unable to pay electricity bills.
You can't make this game fair between Alpha&Omega. Give them motherships - "Oh look. omega has titan, and I can't have, its pay2win, ccp fix pliz"
This also will be unfair till you give them "sensor compensation 5" "signature analysis 5" "biology 5", you know all those "very important" skills) |
Quriel Arjar
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:53:22 -
[1072] - Quote
This will backfire horribly, when people realize their accounts aren't "truly" F2P, like thought they would be, but simply trial accounts without time limitations. It will be even worse, if CCP puts "BUY NAO!" buttons on every single item, which Alphas won't be able to use. Imagine a reaction of a new player, who just went through the ship tree and saw all these cool, huge ships to only be greeted by an orange button reminding him to pay up or bugger off. If I were him, I wouldn't bother launching EVE ever again.
CCP, please, for the good of the game, don't redo interface to remind Alphas, that they are second class citizens every time they open their ship's inventory. No amount of "This is EVE" videos will ever fix that first impression of EVE looking like some cheap mobile game with cash shop ads taking every inch of the screen. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2802
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:56:02 -
[1073] - Quote
After some thoughts, the only really important additional measure (besides voting and gift restrictions of course), which tackles most of the proposed abuse cases IMO is:
- enforce trial account rules, if an alpha account is logged in no other account is allowed. It's a banable offense.
If you allow more than one simultaneous account mixed with Alpha, every player is forced to multi-box. There would be no valid excuse anymore to ever again undock without a personal scout, prober, ecm ship, add. drone provider, tackler, dps fleet buddy. The force multiplier of a second login for free is just too strong.
It will still be a big game changer because you could then own an unlimited number of free and clean scam, scout, spy and sitter alts, but I hope this will not break too much.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
364
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 10:59:32 -
[1074] - Quote
Velores Prokhozai wrote:If you want them (CCP) to allow use any T2 cruisers (and fraction) with any T2 fits for alpha clones - then I personally will never subcscribe any more, as a majoriry of other playes, so expect tranquility to go offline in 3 month unable to pay electricity bills.
You can't make this game fair between Alpha&Omega. Give them motherships - "Oh look. omega has titan, and I can't have, its pay2win, ccp fix pliz"
This also will be unfair till you give them "sensor compensation 5" "signature analysis 5" "biology 5", you know all those "very important" skills)
No T2 ship hulls in my proposal, if the comment was aimed at me. But yeah - if a ship hull is allowed Alpha should be able to fly it as well as Omega does. Indeed including all these important support skills. Not like in the current proposal where even the basic fitting skills for CPU and Powergrid are capped at L4. In both official plan and in my proposal they were training slower than subscribed accounts anyway.
Might as well just allow them to fly just noobships with civilian modules then. Otherwise they might somehow manage to kill a paying customer, oh the horror!
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Arkoth 24
Phayder
276
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:03:05 -
[1075] - Quote
Quriel Arjar wrote:This will backfire horribly, when people realize their accounts aren't "truly" F2P, like thought they would be, but simply trial accounts without time limitations. It will be even worse, if CCP puts "BUY NAO!" buttons on every single item, which Alphas won't be able to use. Imagine a reaction of a new player, who just went through the ship tree and saw all these cool, huge ships to only be greeted by an orange button reminding him to pay up or bugger off. If I were him, I wouldn't bother launching EVE ever again.
CCP, please, for the good of the game, don't redo interface to remind Alphas, that they are second class citizens every time they open their ship's inventory. No amount of "This is EVE" videos will ever fix that first impression of EVE looking like some cheap mobile game with cash shop ads taking every inch of screen. Second this.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
|
Bagatur I
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
73
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:06:49 -
[1076] - Quote
gonna add my 2c. as CCP stated in the announcement, this is to let new players experience more of EVE without the doom of end of trial sub hanging over them. and I think this is a great idea! however, they need to make absolutely sure that this isnt abused by experienced players to simply get a ton of free alts. so the most important thing is to limit the number of aplha alts logged in from 1 PC to 1. I would suggest though, that if a non-paying player can have 1 alpha account logged in, then so should a paying player, even if he has an omega character logged in already. and no skills that allow offline ISK accumulation - no PI, manufacturing, etc. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
364
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:08:31 -
[1077] - Quote
A comparison of mining platforms. Alpha, as proposed in the devblog (Amarr one specifically, as it was the first one in the list), Max skill character with the same mining frigate vs Procurer and Retriver.
http://www.overclock.net/g/i/2864056/mining-yields-in-eve-online-alpha-vs-omega-in-mining-frig-and-max-skill-mining-barges/sort/display_order/
Alpha yield in Venture: 377 m3/min Omega yield in Venture: 511 m3/min Omega yield in Procurer: 928 m3/min Omega yield in Retriever: 1012 m3/min
No implants, links or mining drones. As one can see Omega even in T1 barge would be yielding about twice as much minerals per minute than a T1 mining frigate can with max skills. So incentive to upgrade would be always there even if Alphas could have max skills for the modules fitted on their Venture. Combine this with lifting on simultaneous logins limitation (if its implemented for Alphas). The approx 120 m3/min difference between max skilled Venture and currently proposed Alpha Venture is not something I would be considering particularly threatening to the EVE economy compared to the number of potential Alpha Ventures mining.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Velores Prokhozai
WARP Mechanics Fidelas Constans
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:09:12 -
[1078] - Quote
Carniflex wrote: Might as well just allow them to fly just noobships with civilian modules then. Otherwise they might somehow manage to kill a paying customer, oh the horror!
Why I can't see all those World of Warcraft: Starter Edition 20 level players complaining that 80lvl paladins are better than them? What we have now is a pure copy of that wow:se. It's not EVE meant to be played for free, it's EVE that you can TRY as long as you want. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:12:54 -
[1079] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Dude, I'm not talking from an existing player's POV, which I obviously am and will immediately become Omega when this goes live.
I'm talking from a new Alpha players' POV. For me, who's been playing the game for nearly a decade, it doesn't change what I can do.
I said what I said because I believe CCP is introducing Alpha account as a marketing tool, not for players like you and I, but total eve virgins.
For them, it will seem like P2W, and I'm not sure that is a good perception for these noobs to have, so I'm questioning the pros and cons of Alpha accounts as a marketing tool and from brand management point of view.
That's how things work RL (as you ask me to grow up in RL...) - free stuff can be good, but it's not always the best marketing/sales strategy. I've seen companies suffer negative long term consequences because they managed free events and promotions in a wrong way.
Sure, you can say CCP is a successful company and has a dedicated professionals working on marketing and sales strategies so they 'should know better than you, forum idiot'.
Guess what, I too work in a marketing/sales/business development as a professional. I'm not commenting on this as an EVE vet or whatever, I'm genuinely questioning whether these Alpha accounts will have good long term beneficial effect as a marketing tool.
Even companies in Fortune 50 sometimes make major marketing blunder. There are valid questions we can ask to CCP whether something they have in plans is a good idea or not.
Getting back to the topoc - as a player I really don't care. I already have my SP and I can fly all the ships and fits I want. And yes I've paid for my subs long enough that I'm happy that I have something these free players won't - so I'm not arguing against you.
But from Alpha players' perspective, would it offer them good experience to commit cash to the game over long term?
That is debatable. Let's take a look at the biggest MMO thats still a sub model, World of Warcraft - that is free to play, capped at 20 limited movement within the original game vanilla, a few dungeons 10 gold max and cannot interact with anyone apart from emote or if the other person has then in friends list, all still free to play though.
Now what CCP are offering in there Alpha state clones ( Free to play extension ) - Limited skill set capped at 5 mill skill points and locked to racials, no cap on environment, no cap on earnings, no cap on interactions with anyone, If you have ever been an existing player you can have free access to your account(s) within the capped skillsets check out how the game has evolved and on resubbing gain access to all trained skills/ships again.
So wow is fine but eve is pay to win, Gotta love those beer goggles some folks wear !!!!!!
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
364
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:16:56 -
[1080] - Quote
Velores Prokhozai wrote:Carniflex wrote: Might as well just allow them to fly just noobships with civilian modules then. Otherwise they might somehow manage to kill a paying customer, oh the horror!
Why I can't see all those World of Warcraft: Starter Edition 20 level players complaining that 80lvl paladins are better than them? What we have now is a pure copy of that wow:se. It's not EVE meant to be played for free, it's EVE that you can TRY as long as you want.
Because WoW is a different game. For a start their match making system is not putting those lev 20 "free" dudes up against a Lev 80 Paladins - and its a theme park - aimed more at PVE content than PvP. While EVE is a sandbox. In here if the Alpha goes to try out FW, for example, all these "lev 80" dudes are waiting for him there - they are not separated into their own little corners of universe with very little to no interaction between them. Second - WoW has no meaningful death penalty - you get ganked by a random lev 80 in your little noob zone - no problems stand up and resume doing what you were doing.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
|
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1128
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:17:15 -
[1081] - Quote
Velores Prokhozai wrote:Carniflex wrote: Might as well just allow them to fly just noobships with civilian modules then. Otherwise they might somehow manage to kill a paying customer, oh the horror!
Why I can't see all those World of Warcraft: Starter Edition 20 level players complaining that 80lvl paladins are better than them? What we have now is a pure copy of that wow:se. It's not EVE meant to be played for free, it's EVE that you can TRY as long as you want. It's all about getting more numbers online to satisfy the bankers paying for Eve/Valkyrie. If it works, well it works. If not, wait for the next EA idea to be tried and the next and the next until the goal is achieved - Eveonline is no longer about its players, it is all about funding CCP's dreams.
Once Valkyrie - If Valkyrie, ever becomes a hit, we can all expect the dumbing down of our game to be halted or at least slowed - CCP will no longer need us to fund their experiments. At least until the next one comes along.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
fluffy jo
Universal Exports
25
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:17:50 -
[1082] - Quote
I think the alpha clone idea could be a good thing for eve. It will provide more pilotGÇÖs in eve, more life in eve. Some of these alpha pilotGÇÖs will be good for eve and some bad.
A Few minor thoughts Most solo freighters will now be able to have a scout Every roam will have a suicide scout. Gankers can have a character ready to go in every trade route. Every Duel will have a neut suicide logi ready to warp in. I am not sure if the added pilots will add any quality to eve.
A few minor thoughts about passive game play that may, or may not, have been made. Probably have been made.
My concerns are really with clone going from alpha to omega, learning skills and doing a job, then dropping back to alpha. PI . learn 5+ planets with good command center while an omega and then going to alpha. Can they control 5+ planets and can they control a good command center? I would hope only 1 planets, and cannot control a good command center.
Manufacturer and Science jobs that have been learnt while at omega and have submitted 10+ jobs and then going to alpha. Can they then deliver the jobs which they donGÇÖt have skills to submit? I would hope they cant deliver any jobs they donGÇÖt have skills to submit.
This could be any tech 2 job or 6 month research job
This is also really important for long time research jobs, as this will kill the copy business of high send BPOGÇÖs, particularly on long time research like capital or structure ME etc.
Although to submit a 2nd time the account will need to be an omega again. And you could sort of do this now on a 2nd account, but this just makes it so much easier.
This clone change could be good or bad. Lots of these alpha pvp pilots will leave as they will be outgunned I fear.
Cheers |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:22:29 -
[1083] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Velores Prokhozai wrote:Carniflex wrote: Might as well just allow them to fly just noobships with civilian modules then. Otherwise they might somehow manage to kill a paying customer, oh the horror!
Why I can't see all those World of Warcraft: Starter Edition 20 level players complaining that 80lvl paladins are better than them? What we have now is a pure copy of that wow:se. It's not EVE meant to be played for free, it's EVE that you can TRY as long as you want. Because WoW is a different game. For a start their match making system is not putting those lev 20 "free" dudes up against a Lev 80 Paladins - and its a theme park - aimed more at PVE content than PvP. While EVE is a sandbox. In here if the Alpha goes to try out FW, for example, all these "lev 80" dudes are waiting for him there - they are not separated into their own little corners of universe with very little to no interaction between them. Second - WoW has no meaningful death penalty - you get ganked by a random lev 80 in your little noob zone - no problems stand up and resume doing what you were doing. Seriously that your best trying to use matchmaking, how about those same SE level 20 wandering over from SW to say orgrimmar and the lvl 130 guards come and smack you down, the level 110 players come and smack you down, Just the same thing but your trying to use the arena and battleground system to justify you pointless train of thought.
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
197
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:27:56 -
[1084] - Quote
The only real point that I think can be unbalancing is FW. There you can make a lot of money with T1 frigs and they can be used as bodyguards to an Omega toon. Everywhere else the skill caps will severely limit the Alphas but because of the frig restrictions this doesn't apply to FW. IMHO Alphas should be banned from FW that's the only addition that is really needed. |
Velores Prokhozai
WARP Mechanics Fidelas Constans
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 11:51:43 -
[1085] - Quote
Carniflex wrote: Because WoW is a different game. For a start their match making system is not putting those lev 20 "free" dudes up against a Lev 80 Paladins - and its a theme park - aimed more at PVE content than PvP. While EVE is a sandbox. In here if the Alpha goes to try out FW, for example, all these "lev 80" dudes are waiting for him there - they are not separated into their own little corners of universe with very little to no interaction between them. Second - WoW has no meaningful death penalty - you get ganked by a random lev 80 in your little noob zone - no problems stand up and resume doing what you were doing.
So lets imagine firstly they will be killed at novice beacon by 5 tristans (and boosting tengu ofc) second time they will be killed by gatecamping dramiel with 3 guardians 3rd time podded by smartbomb rokh then ganked by catalyst/trasher/tornado isk doubling in jita? 10 blackops drop on your vexor? 50 titans drop on your keepstar in nalvula?
Now point me in what situation the tech2 guns will help you? |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 12:26:20 -
[1086] - Quote
fluffy jo wrote:I think the alpha clone idea could be a good thing for eve. It will provide more pilotGÇÖs in eve, more life in eve. Some of these alpha pilotGÇÖs will be good for eve and some bad.
A Few minor thoughts Most solo freighters will now be able to have a scout Every roam will have a suicide scout. Gankers can have a character ready to go in every trade route. Every Duel will have a neut suicide logi ready to warp in. I am not sure if the added pilots will add any quality to eve.
A few minor thoughts about passive game play that may, or may not, have been made. Probably have been made.
My concerns are really with clone going from alpha to omega, learning skills and doing a job, then dropping back to alpha. PI . learn 5+ planets with good command center while an omega and then going to alpha. Can they control 5+ planets and can they control a good command center? I would hope only 1 planets, and cannot control a good command center.
Manufacturer and Science jobs that have been learnt while at omega and have submitted 10+ jobs and then going to alpha. Can they then deliver the jobs which they donGÇÖt have skills to submit? I would hope they cant deliver any jobs they donGÇÖt have skills to submit.
This could be any tech 2 job or 6 month research job
This is also really important for long time research jobs, as this will kill the copy business of high send BPOGÇÖs, particularly on long time research like capital or structure ME etc.
Although to submit a 2nd time the account will need to be an omega again. And you could sort of do this now on a 2nd account, but this just makes it so much easier.
This clone change could be good or bad. Lots of these alpha pvp pilots will leave as they will be outgunned I fear.
Cheers
I get what you are saying.
PI should scale down if someone drops to an Alpha state after skilling up as an Omega, if they have unsubbed the jobs should drop to what's allowed as an Alpha, if that means their PI stops, fine.
Indy, same, if someone has skilled up to run 10 science/research slots and then they drop to Alpha state the jobs should stop until Omega state is applied again. Why should anyone expect jobs or PI to continue if they aren't subbed? The skill queue doesn't.
This might happen now anyway, I'm not sure.
|
Zozoll Neblyn
Ziggurat Forge
26
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 12:37:25 -
[1087] - Quote
I wonder what effect this will have on the balance between large and small alliances?
A small alliance can swarm alphas. But a big alliance can swarm even more alphas. ...
If alphas are used as system watchers in null, I can imagine finding 10 or 20 characters visible in every "empty" system I fly through. Making it impossible to know if a system has actually got gankers in it or not. |
Elinara Yamamoto
Latex Entosis Insignificant Others
47
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 12:44:00 -
[1088] - Quote
Should only be able to log in one of them at a time per player, also I do think they should not be allowed to log in if you have a subscribed character logged in, if you want to have 2 chars active, pay 2 subscriptions... otherwise people will feel compelled to have that Vexor alt or whatever free alt to help their main...
And that means they are sort of psychologically pavloved into dualboxing even if thats not their thing... thats what I dislike.
I do not really see a problem if those 2 restrictions are in place together with the other currently mentioned restrictions! |
Marsha Mallow
2914
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 12:45:26 -
[1089] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote:I wonder what effect this will have on the balance between large and small alliances? This is actually a decent question. Whilst concern over wardecs and the state of highsec might be valid, there are large scale, well-established groups who are probably strategising right now how to deal with a major influx of new players. Think E-Uni, Brave, Test, Horde, KF, Signal Cartel, NPSI groups. If representatives from these groups are invited to talk to CCP direct about the NPE it might be possible to swipe a good chunk of Alphas out of highsec at client launch and bypass some of the highsec issues.
Now might be a really good time to consider allowing players to select player corporations during the NPE, provided some of the more rowdy groups are marked up clearly as adult groups whose forums/chat channels are not moderated by CCP. The worst option here would be to see a successful marketing drive bring in loads of new players who are not retained because of existing NPE problems, or to see NPC corps balloon even higher, and a wholly new set of problems emerge.
Svara - haha u said flow
|
Absolute Intoleranto
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 12:46:19 -
[1090] - Quote
People love to complain about everything.
First thing first. If this will/can increase the amount of active players, than its something positive.
Of course EVE wouldnt be EVE, if people wouldnt think about the possibility of abuse. But that is always given.
Some people complain about the limitation of the "Alpha clone". Saying that "They wouldnt feel equal to the Omega clones.". Silly, thats not the purpose of the Alpha clones.
EVE is different in terms of progressing, but it had the same trial system like other mmos and that was a problem. This new system fits in very well! Newbies are no longer restricted to 14/21 day trials anymore. (Do or die trying would be a better name) They have all the time they need to learn the game and to get to the fun/interesting parts.
I like the idea that subscribers also benefit from that change. Even though it feels like CCP tries to appease us subscribers that way. In my case that totaly worked.
Think about it, if you ever come to the point, where you cant or dont want to pay the subscription for a month or two, you still can play the game. Yes, you/we would be limited. But in the current status of the game you wouldnt be able to play at all.
I think thats great!
Intoleranto |
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
370
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 13:12:28 -
[1091] - Quote
Velores Prokhozai wrote: So lets imagine firstly they will be killed at novice beacon by 5 tristans (and boosting tengu ofc) second time they will be killed by gatecamping dramiel with 3 guardians 3rd time podded by smartbomb rokh then ganked by catalyst/trasher/tornado isk doubling in jita? 10 blackops drop on your vexor? 50 titans drop on your keepstar in nalvula?
Now point me in what situation the tech2 guns will help you?
6 months down the road when you manage to grab that lone fleet firetail in your own fleet firetail. Assuming the Alpha manages to survive that far. However, removing that possibility ensures that no Alpha with two braincells to rub together will stick around long enough for that. Why spend the effort when you can not compete even theoretically against pay to win dudes.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Arcturus Ursidae
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 13:13:45 -
[1092] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:The only real point that I think can be unbalancing is FW. There you can make a lot of money with T1 frigs and they can be used as bodyguards to an Omega toon. Everywhere else the skill caps will severely limit the Alphas but because of the frig restrictions this doesn't apply to FW. IMHO Alphas should be banned from FW that's the only addition that is really needed.
Thing is more characters participating in FW can only be good for it free or not.
One of the questions is though whether the alpha skill base is high enough to compete even in a frigate fight.
It's some of the poor mechanics that need to change to tone down farming. Hopefully CCP sees this. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1858
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 13:14:51 -
[1093] - Quote
Absolute Intoleranto wrote:good stuff She gets it.
You get a cookie.
I see this as just a new version of the trial account with an unlimited play timer as opposed to 2-3 weeks.
And as for 'limiting' them to Green safety...that has to be the dumbest thing I ever heard of.
If they want to gank...or move to low and be a Horrible Person.....let them. If they want to FW...let them.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
576
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 13:37:36 -
[1094] - Quote
Please give Alpha clones the ability to train Warp Drive Operation past level 3. Anyone who has made a new character can hopefully sympathize with how frustrating it is to constantly run out of cap on even fairly short warps. This certainly isn't helped by the level 3/4 capacitor support skills either.
I would really recommend that they get that ability to train it to 5, but even to 4 would be a great quality of life change for Alpha accounts. Taking 3-5x the time for long warps than a better trained character while waiting for your cap to slowly recharge from 0% is not any sort of compelling game mechanic. I'm actually not sure if an alpha account would actually be able to roam with Omegas at all since their overall travel time is so much longer. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
197
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 13:41:53 -
[1095] - Quote
Arcturus Ursidae wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:The only real point that I think can be unbalancing is FW. There you can make a lot of money with T1 frigs and they can be used as bodyguards to an Omega toon. Everywhere else the skill caps will severely limit the Alphas but because of the frig restrictions this doesn't apply to FW. IMHO Alphas should be banned from FW that's the only addition that is really needed. Thing is more characters participating in FW can only be good for it free or not. One of the questions is though whether the alpha skill base is high enough to compete even in a frigate fight. It's some of the poor mechanics that need to change to tone down farming. Hopefully CCP sees this. Not on their own but you can blop with many of them as bodyguards or use them as fire-and-forget runners. FW System is the only System where frigs really count due to the size restriction. In shattered wormholes their inability to cloak will make them easy prey |
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
576
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 13:52:46 -
[1096] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Absolute Intoleranto wrote:good stuff And as for 'limiting' them to Green safety...that has to be the dumbest thing I ever heard of. If they want to gank...or move to low and be a Horrible Person.....let them. If they want to FW...let them.
Yellow safety in high sec is in my eyes a prerequisite for this program. The key words there being "in high sec only". I don't think anyone is arguing that Alpha characters shouldn't be allowed to go suspect in highsec or criminal everywhere else.
If red safety is allowed everywhere say hello to literally endless of free to play thrashers/catalysts on every major travel route popping every pod, shuttle, noobship, and flimsy frigate they see just for the hell of it. There's almost zero investment required besides the time sink of making an account and queuing a few skills, and that means that the accounts can just be trashed once the sec status is ruined.
As for the argument that "suicide ganking is just part of the game", there are many more facets of the game that Alpha accounts are limited from including cloaking, cynos, t2 ships/weapons, etc. All of those limitations are done for the health of the game on the whole, and I fail to see the difference here. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 14:15:39 -
[1097] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Velores Prokhozai wrote: So lets imagine firstly they will be killed at novice beacon by 5 tristans (and boosting tengu ofc) second time they will be killed by gatecamping dramiel with 3 guardians 3rd time podded by smartbomb rokh then ganked by catalyst/trasher/tornado isk doubling in jita? 10 blackops drop on your vexor? 50 titans drop on your keepstar in nalvula?
Now point me in what situation the tech2 guns will help you?
6 months down the road when you manage to grab that lone fleet firetail in your own fleet firetail. Assuming the Alpha manages to survive that far. However, removing that possibility ensures that no Alpha with two braincells to rub together will stick around long enough for that. Why spend the effort when you can not compete even theoretically against pay to win dudes. Is there something you don't quite grasp with the game has always been a subscription base model, If it was free to play then added " Golden ammo " or with a paid version you now get XYZ that is pay to win, This however is a free extension to the existing sub based game.
As a subscriber we have gained access to use expired accounts, old players can check it out without subbing, as a new player they get to experience the whole game without time constraints and more skill points than a standard trial. If they wish to continue as Alpha's its free if they want to experience everything they have the choice to convert to Omega state. This is not Pay to Win. |
Mynxee
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
296
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 14:16:31 -
[1098] - Quote
I have not read this entire thread (should have time for that today) but my biggest concern is the impact the clone states change will have on newbro friendly corps like Signal Cartel. Based on how we do things:
- It will be more difficult to identify long-term inactives. The sub status we can currently see via API will be meaningless and I reckon will go away? Clone states will not be visible via API and anyway are not an indication by themselves of inactivity. We actively purge long-term inactives so it appears we'll have to find other methods to identify them.
- Corp contracts, which we use to supply our new players with basic stuff (because abuse is visible as opposed to a shared hangar which offers no view into who took what), are out of reach of Alpha clones. This has always been true for trial accounts and has always been vexing but at least those were shorter-lived. The problem is that Alphas will require much longer term "hands on" support in stations from members who can grab what's on corp contracts and trade it directly to them. This is a bit of a challenge for an exploration corp whose members are all over Bob's creation at any given moment. It has often left our Trial account members frustrated and I reckon for new player Alphas, the same will be true but even more so. Any chance of permitting Alpha clones to accept Corp Contracts, even if all other Contract restrictions remain (maybe only after they've subbed at least once in that account's history)?
These are just two mechanics-related impacts I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure more will occur to me. It makes me wonder whether the dev team has considered the impact of the clone state change on common practices used in corps like mine to help newbros get a good start in the game.
Lost in space, looking for sigs...
Blog: Cloaky Wanderer
|
James Duadoulin
modro Swords of Damocles
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 14:21:00 -
[1099] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:James Duadoulin wrote:
3 alts on 3 different computers is fairly easy when they are only scouts. (and you could also train them up on drones and have them assign drones to your main. its a force multiplier. ratting HAVENS in 2-3 min by virtue of 20 drones following your commands. granted they are T1 but you can still faction fit those vexors. once the drones are assigned the otehr accounts requre no input except for monitoring ship hp and drone health levels.
go into wormhole scan down all wh exits pop your alts 1000km off of each hole. you have instant feedback if anyone enters system same thing that used to be done with cloaky camera alts except its live and they are actually vulnerable since they cant cloak.
That's true, but when that bad guy comes and lands in your sanctum.... you are pretty much stuck there or you will lose 1-3 of your ratting vexors. And once that happened, if it were me, I'd be coming back regularly to pay you a visit.
i already use 3 paid vexors dude it is not hard to get out when someone comes into system.
and since the drones are only t1 its negligible to lose them. fleet warp is the bomb
now doing it in domies is sure to lose at least one cuz they warp soooo slow |
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
63
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 14:33:37 -
[1100] - Quote
As I didn't read everything (don't have time to yet), what will happen to buddy invite advantage (+7d trial currently to new player) as there won't be anymore trial with that system ?
Will there be an advantage to people coming and playing eve through buddy invite ? Or will the only one just be the +30d/plex reward if subscribe (clone omega) ? |
|
Egsise
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 15:54:57 -
[1101] - Quote
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:ok guys thing is really simple here:
single scenario:
you have newcommer alpha clone player, he hooks up into the game and at some point decides to.. lets say go for some low sec PvP
so he grabs his t1 desroyer, fit it with t1 fit, maybe if was lucky to receive proper instruction he'll load it with factional ammo [he should have access to that, right?]
so he goes to the lowsec, and is utterly anihilated by the very first assault frig he meets, or even better a tactical destroyer
he looks up the ship that pwned him and realise that looking by numbers, that ship is superior to his - now blown to pieces t1 dessie. also he realises that he cannot use it until he pays real money [or farm for plex]
at this point possibility of two possible outcomes can emerge:
if he started playing game believing EvE has turned f2p, [which is possible for th moment being considering all the press forgetting actuall definitions of stuff and not-so-straight-way-of-CCP-saying-things] he WILL find it extremely p2w [let us remember we talk here about 100% fresh player with decent ability to use his brain]
the other case - if he was for the whole time fully aware that alpha clone is nothing more than trial account wihout time limit slapped ontop of it, he won't get the wrong idea about game being p2w, will move on and is more likely to consider buying the sub on the later date to enjoy those shinier toys.
What is really important now though is for CCP to properly accent the truth about alpha clones, before people will flock to "now-f2p-eve" only to start spewing crosss the internetz how eve is "p2w rubbish"
There is no way a noob can tell the difference between ships or fits. Not from Eve. It might be possible to see the difference from third party fitting program. But even then it's the player skills that have huge impact on how the ship stats are and how the ship is actually flown in combat.
But I agree that it should be named differently to prevent the poor and the noobs crying Eve is P2W. |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 16:40:23 -
[1102] - Quote
Just released....
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/clone-states-post-announcement-follow-up/ |
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
124
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 17:18:37 -
[1103] - Quote
I am very familiar with WOW. Before I quit I clocked up over 150 days of play time on my main toon. That's 3,600 hours of game play. If you play 8 hours a day for 5 days a week (like a job), that equates to 22 months of playing WOW like a full time job.
And I will tell you what'a different from WOW and EVE.
1. WOW has enjoyable PVE contents, quests and world to explore at low level (e.g. Up to lvl 20). The opening sequences of WOW is delightful. Each class and faction and ethnicity has its own rich environment that's crafted with high level of detail, from gestures to sound track, city/landscape, dialogues, etc.
Don't get me wrong. I love EVE and all its lore and chronicles, and have read all the published novels. I'm also aware that each faction has different NPCs and station types, etc.
But you can't seriously compare what's available in WOW as a PVE experience for a low level player and what PVE EVE offers at that level (or even at higher lvl to be honest).
Even just looking at combat mechanism vs NPC rats, WOW has combos and skill sequence and DPS cycles and all that interactive things. EVE solo PVE is all about target lock and activate all mods and wait till the target dies. If it was WOW that would be like a Rogue killing an NPC using no combos and timed skills, you know, just using default ' hit' only.
EVE has ewar, but you don't time it to use it at the 'right moment' (at least definitely not in solo lvl 1 missions). You keep the target painter on the target from the moment you lock him till he dies. If it was WOW, you'd need to juggle different ewar applications at the right moments to maximise DPS.
EVE is not like that.
For EVE, there is no appeal in continuing low level PVE contentse. I would rather go back to killing 1,000 spiders as a Rogue in WOW than do 1,000 lvl 1 missions in T1 fit frigate.
Even For harvesting - would you rather go around in Azeroth collecting 1,000 items spread across the map with random spawn points, or you want to mine 1 billion units of Veldspar in a static belt, and 'do it in a Kestrel'
We love EVE, but let's be fair, low level PVE contents in EVE is no where near varied/interesting as WOW.
I don't want to make it sound like WOW > EVE, obviously I managed to quit WOW but can't quit EVE so I know which game I love more, but low level PVE wise EVE simply cannot compete with WOW, especially to the 'casual/mainstream' playerbase.
2. Then we have PVP. Yes, PVP in EVE is awesome. And this is what makes EVE great and keep the core player base subbed for long long time.
But bear in mind that even on PVP servers in WOW, battleground and arena pretty much killed any serious 'world pvp'. People spent more time in instanced dungeons and battlegrounds than out in the world, especially once they have done all the field quests and reached the max level.
But that works for level capped players, because WOW has level capped battlefields. EVE doesn't do 'instanced battlefield' - there are FW sites restricted to ship types but it's not capped by SP. And although FW had been pretty popular, for EVE, I think most people will agree that the real fun PVP is world PVP. This is totally different from WOW.
Limited players will be fully exposed to vets ready to farm them in the open PVP world, not only for KM, but to get them on comms and make them sing and record and post it on youtube and humiliate them on reddit and make a lol meme pic to pass on to the next generation.
I'm not wearing beer goggles. WOW and EVE have some fundamental differences, different to the extent that a successful marketing/PR strategy for one could be a disaster for the other.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
|
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 17:44:40 -
[1104] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Didn't see that coming.
T3Ds, cloaking, and cyno are not usable on alpha clones so I don't really see a problem with the concept. More people flying T1 frigs, destroyers and cruisers is good for the game. I foresee herds of low skill but free miners across New Eden, though. That is a concerning.
This is really critical:
Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
A: We have not decided whether the simultaneous log on restrictions from the current trial system will apply to Alpha Clones. The decision will partly depend on your feedback, as well as our technical investigations over the coming months. PLEASE limit the number of simultaneous logins for alpha clones. I suggest two or three. That is enough to let people taste alt play without becoming blatantly exploitative. It also limits the inevitable uptick in ganking, though probably not by enough.
This, This, This.
Happy to see EvE has responded to challenge provided by Elite and SC with soon upcoming (more wider range of) planetary landings. |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 18:25:24 -
[1105] - Quote
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:Zappity wrote:Didn't see that coming.
T3Ds, cloaking, and cyno are not usable on alpha clones so I don't really see a problem with the concept. More people flying T1 frigs, destroyers and cruisers is good for the game. I foresee herds of low skill but free miners across New Eden, though. That is a concerning.
This is really critical:
Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
A: We have not decided whether the simultaneous log on restrictions from the current trial system will apply to Alpha Clones. The decision will partly depend on your feedback, as well as our technical investigations over the coming months. PLEASE limit the number of simultaneous logins for alpha clones. I suggest two or three. That is enough to let people taste alt play without becoming blatantly exploitative. It also limits the inevitable uptick in ganking, though probably not by enough.
This, This, This. Happy to see EvE has responded to challenge provided by Elite and SC with soon upcoming (more wider range of) planetary landings.
Where have you read that? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5185
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 18:34:47 -
[1106] - Quote
Toobo wrote:I am very familiar with WOW. Before I quit I clocked up over 150 days of play time on my main toon. That's 3,600 hours of game play. If you play 8 hours a day for 5 days a week (like a job), that equates to 22 months of playing WOW like a full time job.
And I will tell you what'a different from WOW and EVE.
1. WOW has enjoyable PVE contents, quests and world to explore at low level (e.g. Up to lvl 20). The opening sequences of WOW is delightful. Each class and faction and ethnicity has its own rich environment that's crafted with high level of detail, from gestures to sound track, city/landscape, dialogues, etc.
Don't get me wrong. I love EVE and all its lore and chronicles, and have read all the published novels. I'm also aware that each faction has different NPCs and station types, etc.
But you can't seriously compare what's available in WOW as a PVE experience for a low level player and what PVE EVE offers at that level (or even at higher lvl to be honest).
Even just looking at combat mechanism vs NPC rats, WOW has combos and skill sequence and DPS cycles and all that interactive things. EVE solo PVE is all about target lock and activate all mods and wait till the target dies. If it was WOW that would be like a Rogue killing an NPC using no combos and timed skills, you know, just using default ' hit' only.
EVE has ewar, but you don't time it to use it at the 'right moment' (at least definitely not in solo lvl 1 missions). You keep the target painter on the target from the moment you lock him till he dies. If it was WOW, you'd need to juggle different ewar applications at the right moments to maximise DPS.
EVE is not like that.
For EVE, there is no appeal in continuing low level PVE contentse. I would rather go back to killing 1,000 spiders as a Rogue in WOW than do 1,000 lvl 1 missions in T1 fit frigate.
Even For harvesting - would you rather go around in Azeroth collecting 1,000 items spread across the map with random spawn points, or you want to mine 1 billion units of Veldspar in a static belt, and 'do it in a Kestrel'
We love EVE, but let's be fair, low level PVE contents in EVE is no where near varied/interesting as WOW.
I don't want to make it sound like WOW > EVE, obviously I managed to quit WOW but can't quit EVE so I know which game I love more, but low level PVE wise EVE simply cannot compete with WOW, especially to the 'casual/mainstream' playerbase.
2. Then we have PVP. Yes, PVP in EVE is awesome. And this is what makes EVE great and keep the core player base subbed for long long time.
But bear in mind that even on PVP servers in WOW, battleground and arena pretty much killed any serious 'world pvp'. People spent more time in instanced dungeons and battlegrounds than out in the world, especially once they have done all the field quests and reached the max level.
But that works for level capped players, because WOW has level capped battlefields. EVE doesn't do 'instanced battlefield' - there are FW sites restricted to ship types but it's not capped by SP. And although FW had been pretty popular, for EVE, I think most people will agree that the real fun PVP is world PVP. This is totally different from WOW.
Limited players will be fully exposed to vets ready to farm them in the open PVP world, not only for KM, but to get them on comms and make them sing and record and post it on youtube and humiliate them on reddit and make a lol meme pic to pass on to the next generation.
I'm not wearing beer goggles. WOW and EVE have some fundamental differences, different to the extent that a successful marketing/PR strategy for one could be a disaster for the other.
Because Eve is a PvP centered game. The PvE is there as a way to enable PvP. People don't PvE because it is super awesome and fun, they do it to afford ships, modules and ammo so they can shoot each other.
And Vets just don't fly around farming noobs. We kill indiscriminately. New player? Yep, we'll kill him. Old player? Yep, we'll kill him. Middle aged player? Kill him too. Don't care what your age is in game...we'll kill ya. And in turn us vets get killed by new players, old players, and everything in between.
Vets also form groups that are comprised of characters of different ages too so we also help new players, old players and everything in between.
Eve is not just about wholesale slaughter, it is much more than that it is actually and example of spontaneous order. My guess is WOW has very little spontaneous order because the game is so structured. Eve has structure, but alot of if is created by the players. For example there are the rental empires, OTEC, B0TLORD, RvB, Eve Uni, and coalitions just to name some off the top of my head.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5185
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 18:41:40 -
[1107] - Quote
From the link....
Quote:Probably the clearest point to emerge so far has been a request to limit simultaneous log on for Alphas. The concern here is obviously justified as swarms of free alts could potentially have any number of negative effects on the game. That said, thereGÇÖs significant complexity here, especially on the technical side. We are exploring options to address this and also consulting our security and customer support team, as most of the negative behavior would depend on multi-plexing or automation, both of which are big no-no's. But, when you guys say you will find ways to break it we believe you, so, weGÇÖre looking at our options and will update you when we settle on an approach.
Coming in a close second is suicide ganking and other forms of high-sec harassment. As we mentioned in the Q and A, we know we can use the safety system to ensure there wonGÇÖt be a problem if we need to, but we still arenGÇÖt sure if that will be necessary. This write up does a good job showing why Alpha Clones may not make ganking more prevalent. ItGÇÖs a tricky topic and we look forward to talking it through with the CSM as well as watching more of your feedback over the coming weeks.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 18:51:19 -
[1108] - Quote
Toobo wrote:I am very familiar with WOW. Before I quit I clocked up over 150 days of play time on my main toon. That's 3,600 hours of game play. If you play 8 hours a day for 5 days a week (like a job), that equates to 22 months of playing WOW like a full time job.
And I will tell you what'a different from WOW and EVE.
1. WOW has enjoyable PVE contents, quests and world to explore at low level (e.g. Up to lvl 20). The opening sequences of WOW is delightful. Each class and faction and ethnicity has its own rich environment that's crafted with high level of detail, from gestures to sound track, city/landscape, dialogues, etc.
Don't get me wrong. I love EVE and all its lore and chronicles, and have read all the published novels. I'm also aware that each faction has different NPCs and station types, etc.
But you can't seriously compare what's available in WOW as a PVE experience for a low level player and what PVE EVE offers at that level (or even at higher lvl to be honest).
Even just looking at combat mechanism vs NPC rats, WOW has combos and skill sequence and DPS cycles and all that interactive things. EVE solo PVE is all about target lock and activate all mods and wait till the target dies. If it was WOW that would be like a Rogue killing an NPC using no combos and timed skills, you know, just using default ' hit' only.
EVE has ewar, but you don't time it to use it at the 'right moment' (at least definitely not in solo lvl 1 missions). You keep the target painter on the target from the moment you lock him till he dies. If it was WOW, you'd need to juggle different ewar applications at the right moments to maximise DPS.
EVE is not like that.
For EVE, there is no appeal in continuing low level PVE contentse. I would rather go back to killing 1,000 spiders as a Rogue in WOW than do 1,000 lvl 1 missions in T1 fit frigate.
Even For harvesting - would you rather go around in Azeroth collecting 1,000 items spread across the map with random spawn points, or you want to mine 1 billion units of Veldspar in a static belt, and 'do it in a Kestrel'
We love EVE, but let's be fair, low level PVE contents in EVE is no where near varied/interesting as WOW.
I don't want to make it sound like WOW > EVE, obviously I managed to quit WOW but can't quit EVE so I know which game I love more, but low level PVE wise EVE simply cannot compete with WOW, especially to the 'casual/mainstream' playerbase.
2. Then we have PVP. Yes, PVP in EVE is awesome. And this is what makes EVE great and keep the core player base subbed for long long time.
But bear in mind that even on PVP servers in WOW, battleground and arena pretty much killed any serious 'world pvp'. People spent more time in instanced dungeons and battlegrounds than out in the world, especially once they have done all the field quests and reached the max level.
But that works for level capped players, because WOW has level capped battlefields. EVE doesn't do 'instanced battlefield' - there are FW sites restricted to ship types but it's not capped by SP. And although FW had been pretty popular, for EVE, I think most people will agree that the real fun PVP is world PVP. This is totally different from WOW.
Limited players will be fully exposed to vets ready to farm them in the open PVP world, not only for KM, but to get them on comms and make them sing and record and post it on youtube and humiliate them on reddit and make a lol meme pic to pass on to the next generation.
I'm not wearing beer goggles. WOW and EVE have some fundamental differences, different to the extent that a successful marketing/PR strategy for one could be a disaster for the other.
So you want a pissing contest .....
Ive got 11 plus years in both games, My warrior on Vek (Tokli) has 210 days My DK(Byzantian) on silvermoon has 154 days My druid( on silvermoon has 188 days i got a monk ive just levelled to 110 and starting on mage next, i got 17 100's across 2 pvp realms and 2 pve realms. I was saying to you that they are both offering free to play versions of themselves that are limited in some way but what CCP are offering for a free extension to there subscription game is by far superior to the free offering you get from blizzard in every way yet you deem this pay 2 win the same as that other muppet does.
PVP is PVP whatever way you want to look at it whether your a goblin a commando a ninja or a pilot, Im not concerned about arsey fancy setting or music or deep rich backgrounds i come for gameplay which eve has by the bucket load thick and fast. Your level 20 is neutered is so many ways that the only thing it is good for is sightseeing and if thats what floats your boat fine but here a 5 million skill point character in T1 kit can be quite formidable with a well set up ship in like for like surrounding or with a good group / roam.
How do you know that people will think it's pay 2 win when they come here, especially if they know it still has its base subscription model, Its purely the alpha state that free. We using some mad skillz crystal ball technology or just love to stir the drama.
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
101
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 19:18:26 -
[1109] - Quote
CCP Devblog Not a big impact ........ ""as most of the negative behavior would depend on multi-plexing or automation, both of which are big no-no's.""
This line from CCP shows a complete misunderstanding of how powerful multiple free accounts could be EVEN if you are not running them at the same time.
Wingspan has already pointed out that they could easily seed an Alpha alt in every wormhole system and find if a Citadel is being on-lined anywhere in WSpace. This free intel does not only apply to wormholes. Anywhere in the Universe where the ability to online a toon in a safe spot and gather information (on a free account) will be abused.
If there is anyway to make passive income it will be used and abused.
If there is anyway to grief for free it will be used and abused
If there is anyway to replace a paid for alt with a free Alpha CCP will see a drop in subscriptions - probably greater than the number of new ones being created.
These "free" accounts need to be feature locked tighter than a Duck's Arse
|
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 19:53:07 -
[1110] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:0bama Barack Hussein wrote:Zappity wrote:Didn't see that coming.
T3Ds, cloaking, and cyno are not usable on alpha clones so I don't really see a problem with the concept. More people flying T1 frigs, destroyers and cruisers is good for the game. I foresee herds of low skill but free miners across New Eden, though. That is a concerning.
This is really critical:
Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?
A: We have not decided whether the simultaneous log on restrictions from the current trial system will apply to Alpha Clones. The decision will partly depend on your feedback, as well as our technical investigations over the coming months. PLEASE limit the number of simultaneous logins for alpha clones. I suggest two or three. That is enough to let people taste alt play without becoming blatantly exploitative. It also limits the inevitable uptick in ganking, though probably not by enough.
This, This, This. Happy to see EvE has responded to challenge provided by Elite and SC with soon upcoming (more wider range of) planetary landings. Where have you read that?
2nd page, I had just started with topic and popcorn, but that seemed to hit my concerns.
|
|
Eoras Northwind
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 19:58:06 -
[1111] - Quote
I don't see the required skills for mining frigate on the list of skills for any race.
Are the mining frigates considered pirate frigates for limits to alpha players?
I only say this as the mining frigate makes a huge difference in early PvE as well as a part of the NPE.
Mining in a catalyst for anything but hull-metal and kill mails kind of sucks. |
Rach Lieber
Money Miners of Eden
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 20:15:47 -
[1112] - Quote
I'm interested to know what is going to happen to referral links? If anything. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
375
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 20:57:51 -
[1113] - Quote
Eoras Northwind wrote:I don't see the required skills for mining frigate on the list of skills for any race.
Are the mining frigates considered pirate frigates for limits to alpha players?
I only say this as the mining frigate makes a huge difference in early PvE as well as a part of the NPE.
Mining in a catalyst for anything but hull-metal and kill mails kind of sucks.
Mining frigate L4 is in the list as is Mining 4 for T2 mining upgrades and T2 mining lasers. No mining drones, though. So an Alpha would yield a bit over 300 m3/min.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 21:16:14 -
[1114] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Eoras Northwind wrote:I don't see the required skills for mining frigate on the list of skills for any race.
Are the mining frigates considered pirate frigates for limits to alpha players?
I only say this as the mining frigate makes a huge difference in early PvE as well as a part of the NPE.
Mining in a catalyst for anything but hull-metal and kill mails kind of sucks. Mining frigate L4 is in the list as is Mining 4 for T2 mining upgrades and T2 mining lasers. No mining drones, though. So an Alpha would yield a bit over 300 m3/min. Mining upgrade modules require Mining upgrade skill not mining. |
Crack Spawn
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 21:48:57 -
[1115] - Quote
CCP you can't keep new players because
Level 1 missions pay **** so do level 2 and 3 everything in eve is affected by inflation except the rewards and rat bounties they've been stuck at crap levels for years..
Eve is about the micro game called skill training, people in other games get better and rank up the more they play not with eve, you have skills to train which if you want to fly caps take 2 years to fly PROPERLY ok you can be in one in months but good luck keeping it or being able to use it PROPERLY.
This whole Omega and Alpha Game play is CCP accountants talking, its a crap idea and going to cause tears on an epic level
If you want to encourage new players stop stealing from US...
Take 1yr subscription you only give me 360 days but if you ban a person its 365days or take remapping that's 365days. In the 12years Ive played that's 60days you STOLE from me x 3 accounts - 180days
Lets look at buying plex right now. Every day there $209.94 for 12 but when you put them on special there $188.96 for 12 you claim a whopping $68.40 discount but come on CCP its only $20.99 [Creative accounting] think that's what its called
You have a very loyal following but every years you stand on stage and **** on that following instead of embracing, face it eve is not for everyone and specially hyper kids on red cordial, they don't have the patients for eve over the long haul. So CCP face it new subscription will ever only be 1 in every 50 will stay and play. BUT at your present f-up rate you'll loose your following that's supported eve all these years. [Keep your eye on the booms day clock]
How many here know of someone that's left all because of the way CCP fail to listen most if not everyone. 12 years is a life time to support 1 game hell most wouldn't put that much effort into a marriage
Every year you ignore the War Decing but to be fair you did spent 10min on it a little ways back and f-ed it up even more awesome update by the way. The buddy list was the nail in a solo pvp-ers coffin awesome update The Bounty system ok lets just pretend this doesn't exist awesome update
Unless CCP change there ignorant ways this game is surly boomed, I for one don't wish this, but to be honest its on the cards and showing more and more every year. |
Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 22:04:06 -
[1116] - Quote
Crack Spawn wrote:CCP you can't keep new players because Level 1 missions pay **** so do level 2 and 3 everything in eve is affected by inflation except the rewards and rat bounties they've been stuck at crap levels for years.. Eve is about the micro game called skill training, people in other games get better and rank up the more they play not with eve, you have skills to train which if you want to fly caps take 2 years to fly PROPERLY ok you can be in one in months but good luck keeping it or being able to use it PROPERLY. This whole Omega and Alpha Game play is CCP accountants talking, its a crap idea and going to cause tears on an epic level If you want to encourage new players stop stealing from US... Take 1yr subscription you only give me 360 days but if you ban a person its 365days or take remapping that's 365days. In the 12years Ive played that's 60days you STOLE from me x 3 accounts - 180days Lets look at buying plex right now. Every day there $209.94 for 12 but when you put them on special there $188.96 for 12 you claim a whopping $68.40 discount but come on CCP its only $20.99 [Creative accounting] think that's what its called You have a very loyal following but every years you stand on stage and **** on that following instead of embracing, face it eve is not for everyone and specially hyper kids on red cordial, they don't have the patients for eve over the long haul. So CCP face it new subscription will ever only be 1 in every 50 will stay and play. BUT at your present f-up rate you'll loose your following that's supported eve all these years. [Keep your eye on the booms day clock] How many here know of someone that's left all because of the way CCP fail to listen most if not everyone. 12 years is a life time to support 1 game hell most wouldn't put that much effort into a marriage Every year you ignore the War Decing but to be fair you did spent 10min on it a little ways back and f-ed it up even more awesome update by the way. The buddy list was the nail in a solo pvp-ers coffin awesome update The Bounty system ok lets just pretend this doesn't exist awesome updateUnless CCP change there ignorant ways this game is surly boomed, I for one don't wish this, but to be honest its on the cards and showing more and more every year.
Booomed? lol |
Crack Spawn
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 22:05:31 -
[1117] - Quote
yeah its called a midnight typo |
Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 22:05:59 -
[1118] - Quote
Crack Spawn wrote:yeah its called a midnight typo
I could not help myself :)
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17958
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 22:18:35 -
[1119] - Quote
If you can come up with a bounty system that's not trvially exploitable, go for it.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Crack Spawn
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 22:54:32 -
[1120] - Quote
Elite Dangerous - you need a bounty scan module before you can go around legally shooting people :P
So remove all bounties from eve info card. Introduce module scan to show bounty like cargo scanner. Buy license from Concord [monthly] based on bounty amount/scale 100k to 50mil bounty = x amount and so on. In local chat introduce a war target type marking so you know a bounty hunter in system based on active license. Bounty will be paid on amount of bounty not percentage of ship cost/lost Bounty hunting should be a trade in Eve.
These are just some quick basic thoughts on the bounty system. As CCP don't pay for ideas not my job but this is or could be good to introduce NEW content into eve.
I'm sure with some thought Bounty hunting and HiSec mercenaries, War Decing, Espionage could be good and enjoyable if only CCP would just spend some time on the subjects, right now that's 4 NEW content Upgrades CCP could make. |
|
Judaa K'Marr
Power-Hug Training Bootcamp
35
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 23:04:31 -
[1121] - Quote
Well the community embraced it because the part of the community that would point flaws and provided needed skepticism are now gone (ie, Tippia) and the ones that remain don't have the energy anymore and are content to watch in fascination.
At the moment this topic has 56 pages. Imagine the same topic about this announcement 5 years ago.
|
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 23:12:24 -
[1122] - Quote
Judaa K'Marr wrote: and the ones that remain don't have the energy anymore and are content to watch in fascination.
You got it about right.
It takes a special snowflake to turn it all into a comedy in one-¦s head. |
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
86
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 23:15:24 -
[1123] - Quote
Quriel Arjar wrote:This will backfire horribly, when people realize their accounts aren't "truly" F2P, like thought they would be, but simply trial accounts without time limitations. It will be even worse, if CCP puts "BUY NAO!" buttons on every single item, which Alphas won't be able to use. Imagine a reaction of a new player, who just went through the ship tree and saw all these cool, huge ships to only be greeted by an orange button reminding him to pay up or bugger off. If I were him, I wouldn't bother launching EVE ever again.
CCP, please, for the good of the game, don't redo interface to remind Alphas, that they are second class citizens every time they open their ship's inventory. No amount of "This is EVE" videos will ever fix that first impression of EVE looking like some cheap mobile game with cash shop ads taking every inch of screen.
Quoted because this is a really good point. My initial reaction was "How lame/cheesy" is that visual interface about Omega needed for module. The only people who won't find this a "bait and switch" will be the returning players who just are happy to have a free version of EVE....new players will find this offensive as it is so in your face.
Just leave the item usage ALONE like you do currently. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE PREREQ's...you can't fit/fly it. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
935
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 23:18:32 -
[1124] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:A comparison of mining platforms. Alpha, as proposed in the devblog (Amarr one specifically, as it was the first one in the list), Max skill character with the same mining frigate vs Procurer and Retriver. http://www.overclock.net/g/i/2864056/mining-yields-in-eve-online-alpha-vs-omega-in-mining-frig-and-max-skill-mining-barges/sort/display_order/ Alpha yield in Venture: 377 m3/min Omega yield in Venture: 511 m3/min Omega yield in Procurer: 928 m3/min Omega yield in Retriever: 1012 m3/min No implants, links or mining drones. As one can see Omega even in T1 barge would be yielding about twice as much minerals per minute than a T1 mining frigate can with max skills. So incentive to upgrade would be always there even if Alphas could have max skills for the modules fitted on their Venture. Combine this with lifting on simultaneous logins limitation (if its implemented for Alphas). The approx 120 m3/min difference between max skilled Venture and currently proposed Alpha Venture is not something I would be considering particularly threatening to the EVE economy compared to the number of potential Alpha Ventures mining. And the funny thing is even fully tanked that Alphas venture can be one or two shotted by a suicide thrasher.
The reality that you will see hordes of ventures mining and then dying to thrasher gankers is huge. It is much greater a drive to upgrade to a more sane fit.
As for null, I mined in a venture in null once. It lasted a few days for a few hours and I was like OMG no!! PS I just didnt have the barge up there at the time but a buddy had a venture hull he gave me, not lack of skills.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
86
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 23:24:49 -
[1125] - Quote
Crack Spawn wrote:Elite Dangerous - you need a bounty scan module before you can go around legally shooting people :P So remove all bounties from eve info card. Introduce module scan to show bounty like cargo scanner. Buy license from Concord [monthly] based on bounty amount/scale 100k to 50mil bounty = x amount and so on. In local chat introduce a war target type marking so you know a bounty hunter in system based on active license. Bounty will be paid on amount of bounty not percentage of ship cost/lost Bounty hunting should be a trade in Eve. These are just some quick basic thoughts on the bounty system. As CCP don't pay for ideas not my job but this is or could be good to introduce NEW content into eve. I'm sure with some thought Bounty hunting and HiSec mercenaries, War Decing, Espionage could be good and enjoyable if only CCP would just spend some time on the subjects, right now that's 4 NEW content Upgrades CCP could make. EDIT The biggest problem which I think CCP are overlooking, there is no way to PVP unless you spend hours missioning or mining. Most games you can pvp and earn money from it, so bounty hunting or War Decing could open a new way to earn play and have fun ? just needs some thought that's all
D^mn man...I like your posts.
You should see Viturious' post in the new Dev blog thread. He talks about FW killing low sec. As a 12 year EVE player, I would be really interested to get your take on his post.
Long story short though, Bounties in EVE need to be fixed. and YES...PVP could be way more lucrative. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8681
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 23:28:41 -
[1126] - Quote
Judaa K'Marr wrote:the part of the community that would point flaws and provided needed skepticism are now gone (ie, Tippia) and the ones that remain don't have the energy anymore and are content to watch in fascination.
"Schadenfreude Fatigue".
Given their latest "update" blog for these F2P changes, it seems CCP is just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks, and their plan was not fleshed-out much, even though it has a delivery date. The CSM was bypassed until after-the-fact again.. big surprise.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
|
JamnOne
Jammin Corp Jammin Mad
26
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 23:43:23 -
[1127] - Quote
This looks like it might work. It gives Eve the opportunity to attract new players without them having to pay upfront.
When it comes to PVE, I do think that there should be some new content made available both in general missions & storyline for the Alpha clones. On a side note, can you please return AE back to its original gameplay?
Suicide ganking will happen. That is part of the game. The idea of keeping safety turned on in high-sec - bad. In full disclosure, I always thought the safety was a bad idea and when it rolled out I turned it off and never turned it back on.
In the notes it is mentioned that you don't want to give Omegas advantages over Alphas by saying who is who. This is a good idea. Unfortunately, it will be learned by sharing of APIs. You might want to look into this.
|
Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 00:28:13 -
[1128] - Quote
This change will not save Eve. It will probably increase subscription numbers and overall PCU for a little bit. But it's just a gimmick to feed the few elite, tricking players into thinking they can be anything when in reality all they will be is fodder for gankers ~content creators~. Revenue is what Eve needs to sustain itself. But this change will not provide that, just inflated numbers. This is just a predictable and desperate Hail Mary Pass before the big game loss.
Sigh. It's a good try though. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
935
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 01:03:21 -
[1129] - Quote
Given the lastest Feedback from CCP I have only this to say....
The number of concurrent alpha clones per person/IP/Computer will determine if ganking, anom whoring, FW, etc will be in a bad state.
The idea, if available, of creating 70 T1 catalysts and effectively hyperdunking a freighter solo is possible. I have 4 computers atm so if you limit it to 1 per computer I can run 4 myself at once, log off and log in another 4 till freighter is dead. Using VM you can do this already. WIth one per IP you can just use a VPN to do so.
If it CAN be done it WILL be done. Same with FW and other issues.
That not everyone will do it is true, yet some will.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
701
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 01:26:03 -
[1130] - Quote
The problem may in fact not be with the clones, but with the multiboxing. And despite automation and scripting being outlawed, I am convinced there's still more than a few out there running such setups. Either that or my rig is getting really old because I can't see 28 clients running simultaneously and still respond at a moment's notice.
Free alts may not be the problem; they'll merely demonstrate the full capabilities of multiboxing while taking away the associated pricetag.
I for one am very curious to see how this plays out... |
|
beakerax
Pator Tech School
303
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 03:30:02 -
[1131] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:If you can come up with a bounty system that's not trvially exploitable, go for it. I think the pointless/exploitable dichotomy with bounties is at least partly a result of their public availability. It would be neat to be able to set up bounty pools with (optional) access lists. For example, Corp A could set up a 30% bounty on Corp B's ship losses (perhaps capped at a certain amount) only available to their own members (or some trustworthy third party, or whatever). |
FireFrost
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 03:40:26 -
[1132] - Quote
Here's my views on this update
1) no new players 2) old players with 50 accounts to gank or mine out regions 3) the loss of most of the normal players in eve to #1 and #2
You should've just fixed the screw up to begin with when the Chinese players were free to join the rest of us for that 1 week , where plexs went from a managble 200-250 mil (which someone that works can do easily every month by running 20 or so lvl 4 missions) to an enraging 800-850 million for a plex (which no one that works can do running lvl 4s and would seriously cut into family time even running incursions )
Keep the subscription but set a price lock on the plexs cant be sold for over 300 million or something .
If this does go through I can almost guarantee the game will be free to play for everyone cause all that will be in here are Chinese gold farmers , or huge groups of gankers , 1 account that's paid and 20-30 accounts that are free 30 t1 destroyers would be able to kill about anything .
End quote " The Massive quest for more money has left me with nothing ........"
na really I work and honestly I haven't played eve in a few years , I toss cash at it then train skills , Id like to do worm holes but during a server crash my ship and myself were reset to a station I was in prior to assaulting a wormhole that I had been in for a year or so waiting to get my station stuff in to take it over as my own , id love to live in null sec but as I said I work and cant get on everyday so what ever effort I made would be gone when logging in after getting home from work , I work out of town sometimes 3 days away from my pc , people on government assistance do spend money , but they like to eat also , and have cable ect so uyour limited to a certain amount of a welfare check or disability in your game funding , those of us that work don't just throw money away if its just going to get destroyed .
so ya its a rough choice - id personaly just cap the plexs so normal players can buy them , the lower price would allow people to pay for a sub with little effort and would not lead to hordes of ticked off paying players for losing a 2-3 bil ship to a free loader .
just my views - iwork and pay bills and still manage to buy 6 plexs every month or 2 - I will not be buying the plexs if the free players are allowed to fly anything more then they are now on a trial account - but I only have like fighter bomber lvl 5 to train before being done with training unless I go over min bs 5 ,
I was told to post this thread here not to create a new thread lol spend 104 bucks a month on the game and still get yelled at by ISP guys ( whats wrong with the game? hmm)
"Please use the existing feedback thread at this location instead of creating a new thread for the same topic. Thank you.
Thread closed.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails. " |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5187
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 04:51:43 -
[1133] - Quote
Crack Spawn wrote:Elite Dangerous - you need a bounty scan module before you can go around legally shooting people :P So remove all bounties from eve info card. Introduce module scan to show bounty like cargo scanner. Buy license from Concord [monthly] based on bounty amount/scale 100k to 50mil bounty = x amount and so on. In local chat introduce a war target type marking so you know a bounty hunter in system based on active license. Bounty will be paid on amount of bounty not percentage of ship cost/lost Bounty hunting should be a trade in Eve. These are just some quick basic thoughts on the bounty system. As CCP don't pay for ideas not my job but this is or could be good to introduce NEW content into eve. I'm sure with some thought Bounty hunting and HiSec mercenaries, War Decing, Espionage could be good and enjoyable if only CCP would just spend some time on the subjects, right now that's 4 NEW content Upgrades CCP could make. EDIT The biggest problem which I think CCP are overlooking, there is no way to PVP unless you spend hours missioning or mining. Most games you can pvp and earn money from it, so bounty hunting or War Decing could open a new way to earn play and have fun ? just needs some thought that's all
So...you place a bounty on me, right? What is to stop me (the player) from having my alt scan my character's ship, shoot me and collect the bounty?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5187
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 04:56:58 -
[1134] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Malcanis wrote:If you can come up with a bounty system that's not trvially exploitable, go for it. I think the pointless/exploitable dichotomy with bounties is at least partly a result of their public availability. It would be neat to be able to set up bounty pools with (optional) access lists. For example, Corp A could set up a 30% bounty on Corp B's ship losses (perhaps capped at a certain amount) only available to their own members (or some trustworthy third party, or whatever).
There is nothing stopping this now, if I understand your suggestion. Such a system would be an inverse of the SRP programs many corporations/alliances already have.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5187
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 05:34:40 -
[1135] - Quote
FireFrost wrote: so ya its a rough choice - id personaly just cap the plexs so normal players can buy them , the lower price would allow people to pay for a sub with little effort and would not lead to hordes of ticked off paying players for losing a 2-3 bil ship to a free loader .
Yeah, no. Price controls rarely work like you are talking about. What typically happens when the price is set below the current market power is alot more people want to buy and alot more people who would sell stop. This creates a situation known as excess demand--i.e. a shortage.
See, at a price of say 250,000,000 ISK 50 people might be willing to buy PLEX and sell them. But 250 people might want to buy those PLEX. So this leaves 200 people without PLEX. And of these 200 people, 190 might be willing to buy at 260 million, and 180 at 270 million and so forth. So no, in the end people would not be able to pay for a sub for little effort because the PLEX simply won't be there.
The price system works moving buyers and sellers to a point where the number of buyers and sellers are close together. And nobody tells them how to do this.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 05:46:06 -
[1136] - Quote
Judaa K'Marr wrote:Well the community embraced it because the part of the community that would point flaws and provided needed skepticism are now gone (ie, Tippia) and the ones that remain don't have the energy anymore and are content to watch in fascination.
I still see names I know who have few braincells to rub together. Many names are absent since the transition to the new forums / summer of rage but there is still people in EVE whose posts are worth noting. Not all of them are enthusiastic about this but most seem to be surprisingly OK.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 05:50:15 -
[1137] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Judaa K'Marr wrote:the part of the community that would point flaws and provided needed skepticism are now gone (ie, Tippia) and the ones that remain don't have the energy anymore and are content to watch in fascination. "Schadenfreude Fatigue". Given their latest "update" blog for these F2P changes, it seems CCP is just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks, and their plan was not fleshed-out much, even though it has a delivery date. The CSM was bypassed until after-the-fact again.. big surprise.
To be honest - I prefer the approach CCP has taken with this over them nailing it down to the finest details in the secret and then telling us how its going to be. At least in the present case it seems they might consider reconsidering some aspects if enough people voice concern about that particular aspect.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
127
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 06:07:37 -
[1138] - Quote
I didn't want pissing contest mate, I fully respect your experience and glad that you have them so you can see the difference in both games properly.
But seriously, do you feel that 5m SP capped players with no access to T2 will have more appealing experience and reason to spend cash for full sub than somone who leveled to 20 in WOW?
If you feel that alpha toons in eve will have more fun than what WOW noobs can enjoy up to lvl 20, then fair enough. I accept we see things differently and won't claim you are wrong.
Just personally, I feel that WOW has a lot more to offer up to lvl 20 than EVE does up to 5m SP (and NO T2).
As for being 'farmed' pvp wise, yes pvp vets in EVE will kill anyone regardless of SP (and can be killed by anyone too). But the limitations on these alpha toons are just too extremely severe.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 06:09:10 -
[1139] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:The problem may in fact not be with the clones, but with the multiboxing. And despite automation and scripting being outlawed, I am convinced there's still more than a few out there running such setups. Either that or my rig is getting really old because I can't see 28 clients running simultaneously and still respond at a moment's notice.
Free alts may not be the problem; they'll merely demonstrate the full capabilities of multiboxing while taking away the associated pricetag.
I for one am very curious to see how this plays out...
Even without doing stuff against EULA you can control a fair number of accounts. For PVP combat, though, anything above 3 on grid and it's not really effective anymore for most people. Some other activities scale better. For example, I have used 5 Nighthawks/Tengus to blast through 0.0 anoms faster than I should have been able without using ISBoxer or other things that are no-go nowadays.
A single 4K screen can hold 12 clients with very minor overlap but still so that every client is usable by just click of the mouse. Minimum EVE resolution supported is 1024x768 byt you can make the client smaller than that if really putting your mind into it - just some UI elements will not fit then on screen.
Even a normal 1080p screen can hold 3 clients with some overlap (but still usable) although more comfortable is 2 per screen. Thing is practically all modern GFX card can run 4 or more of these. A long while ago, for example: http://www.overclock.net/g/i/2864533/srs-business/sort/display_order/ that is 10 clients on AMS 1055T @ 3.9 GHz and 8 GB of RAM. I believe at the time I had probably two 6770 GFX cards in that machine. Frame rate was good enough for EVE - somewhere in the 20'ies. Now that I have more 4K screen and PC with much stronger internals I could probably get away with as high as about 32 on my primary GFX card. Perhaps 8 more on my auxiliary card for a total of 40 clients. Although for me personally that would be far too intense probably and I probably would not go over 10 ... 15 clients at a time when there is no restrictions.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Aehren Armitage
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 06:14:26 -
[1140] - Quote
I feel the biggest issue here is gonna be, as stated, new players encountering a paywall as soon as they try out PvP and realize they've been wrecked by modules they can't use unless they pay. They will scream P2W from every rooftop, and Eve's reputation will plummet. If they're gonna do free to play (they are, don't get your little head confused with terminology like "alpha", and see it for what it is), they have to do it right- and if they do, it could be a COLOSSAL boon for the game, surpassing anything we've seen before.
"But Aehren, you gorgeous minx, how would CCP go about this F2P utopia of which you speak?"
Simple, darling.
(Numbers below are PLACEHOLDERS and ELASTIC. And calm your inevitably tumultuous ****, and read all the below before quoting a single line with criticism- a lot of these rely on the entire framework to work.)
1. No multiple accounts for Alphas. At all. No Alpha + Alpha, no Alpha + Omega. None. Only permittable (active) multiple accounts are Omega + Omega. Introduce a returning player mechanic that grants a free week as an omega for returning accounts that have been unsubbed for more than X months.
2. Remove limitations on skill training. Alpha accounts train whatever the hell they want, just like we do now, with one exception.
3. Alpha Skillpoint acquisition speed exponentially decreases as total SP goes up. These numbers can be whatever, but let's say 80% speed at less than 5m, 60% from 5-10m, 40% at 10-20m (or 10m+). Alternatively, set it to a flat 50% training speed (but his might make training seem excessively long for new players, hence the above).
4. Alpha accounts have considerably increased jump clone timers.
5. Alpha accounts cannot train into or use capitals.
******* BAM. Results?
- New players don't hit a paywall until they're considering training into capitals, by which point they're invested into the game enough to not see it as P2W as they understand the differences between cap and subcap combat.
- New players don't feel like it's P2W, as they can train into whatever that guy was using to kill them, without paying.
- New players have a real incentive to sub, as it doubles training speed. Older players have an incentive to stay subbed, as they can't use caps OR ALTS without (just like now).
- Older players can't abuse this at all. They want a cyno alt? PI alts? Skill farm alts? Sub it, like you do now. Nothing changes for us.
There's one issue I can see with this (and doubtlessly a few I can't); vets with perfect skills who don't care for alts and only stick around for subcap combat. CCP would lose those subs, as they probably wouldn't find jump clone timers that important in general to pay for. If some of you have ideas for a limitation that would incentivize these people subbing (but not force it), that would be great. That being said, I'd think the amount of fresh blood and subs coming in would make up for the loss in that area.
High on a hill was a lonely goat herd.
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Aehren Armitage
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 06:21:23 -
[1141] - Quote
_double_
High on a hill was a lonely goat herd.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 07:04:38 -
[1142] - Quote
Aehren Armitage wrote:I feel the biggest issue here is gonna be, as stated, new players encountering a paywall as soon as they try out PvP and realize they've been wrecked by modules they can't use unless they pay. They will scream P2W from every rooftop, and Eve's reputation will plummet. If they're gonna do free to play (they are, don't get your little head confused with terminology like "alpha", and see it for what it is), they have to do it right- and if they do, it could be a COLOSSAL boon for the game, surpassing anything we've seen before.
"But Aehren, you gorgeous minx, how would CCP go about this F2P utopia of which you speak?"
Simple, darling.
(Numbers below are PLACEHOLDERS and ELASTIC. And calm your inevitably tumultuous ****, and read all the below before quoting a single line with criticism- a lot of these rely on the entire framework to work.)
1. No multiple accounts for Alphas. At all. No Alpha + Alpha, no Alpha + Omega. None. Only permittable (active) multiple accounts are Omega + Omega. Introduce a returning player mechanic that grants a free week as an omega for returning accounts that have been unsubbed for more than X months.
2. Remove limitations on skill training. Alpha accounts train whatever the hell they want, just like we do now, with one exception.
3. Alpha Skillpoint acquisition speed exponentially decreases as total SP goes up. These numbers can be whatever, but let's say 80% speed at less than 5m, 60% from 5-10m, 40% at 10-20m (or 10m+). Alternatively, set it to a flat 50% training speed (but his might make training seem excessively long for new players, hence the above).
4. Alpha accounts have considerably increased jump clone timers.
5. Alpha accounts cannot train into or use capitals.
6. No skill extraction on Alpha accounts. Omega accounts can only use extractors after being subbed for a consecutive 3 (4? 10?) months.
******* BAM. Results?
- New players don't hit a paywall until they're considering training into capitals, by which point they're invested into the game enough to not see it as P2W as they understand the differences between cap and subcap combat.
- New players don't feel like it's P2W, as they can train into whatever that guy was using to kill them, without paying.
- New players have a real incentive to sub, as it doubles training speed. Older players have an incentive to stay subbed, as they can't use caps OR ALTS without (just like now).
- Older players can't abuse this at all. They want a cyno alt? PI alts? Skill farm alts? Sub it, like you do now. Nothing changes for us.
-Newer players wanting alts will have to sub. If you like the game enough to go to the effort of juggling multiple accounts for an edge, you can pay for it. No dramas.
There's one issue I can see with this (and doubtlessly a few I can't); vets with perfect skills who don't care for alts and only stick around for subcap combat. CCP would lose those subs, as they probably wouldn't find jump clone timers that important in general to pay for. If some of you have ideas for a limitation that would incentivize these people subbing (but not force it), that would be great. That being said, I'd think the amount of fresh blood and subs coming in would make up for the loss in that area.
In my opinion this sounds quite reasonable, however, I do think that there should be a ship size restriction to some degree under capitals as well at least. Giving the free players battleships and T2 ships and most importantly - mining barges could be quite disruptive to the economy. Predominantly for PvE reasons - it would make it viable for Alphas to run incursions with shiny BS groups which I believe would go a bit too far up the pole to be reasonable for a free account.
No T2 and up to cruiser size would be what I would consider good balance, as is proposed in the original devblog.
While at first glance the suggestion to have exponentially decaying skill training rate as a function of total SP seems pretty good the problem would be industry related skills, as these can be had at relatively good levels at fairly low sp amount and industry scales damn good with the number of accounts one can throw at it. combined with some form of skill list restriction for Alphas it would be pretty reasonable idea. Say, starting at full speed at 400k SP and more or less linearly decaying to 50% speed at about 10 mil SP or so.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 07:17:25 -
[1143] - Quote
Aehren Armitage wrote:I feel the biggest issue here is gonna be, as stated, new players encountering a paywall as soon as they try out PvP and realize they've been wrecked by modules they can't use unless they pay. They will scream P2W from every rooftop, and Eve's reputation will plummet. If they're gonna do free to play (they are, don't get your little head confused with terminology like "alpha", and see it for what it is), they have to do it right- and if they do, it could be a COLOSSAL boon for the game, surpassing anything we've seen before.
"But Aehren, you gorgeous minx, how would CCP go about this F2P utopia of which you speak?"
Simple, darling.
(Numbers below are PLACEHOLDERS and ELASTIC. And calm your inevitably tumultuous ****, and read all the below before quoting a single line with criticism- a lot of these rely on the entire framework to work.)
1. No multiple accounts for Alphas. At all. No Alpha + Alpha, no Alpha + Omega. None. Only permittable (active) multiple accounts are Omega + Omega. Introduce a returning player mechanic that grants a free week as an omega for returning accounts that have been unsubbed for more than X months.
2. Remove limitations on skill training. Alpha accounts train whatever the hell they want, just like we do now, with one exception.
3. Alpha Skillpoint acquisition speed exponentially decreases as total SP goes up. These numbers can be whatever, but let's say 80% speed at less than 5m, 60% from 5-10m, 40% at 10-20m (or 10m+). Alternatively, set it to a flat 50% training speed (but his might make training seem excessively long for new players, hence the above).
4. Alpha accounts have considerably increased jump clone timers.
5. Alpha accounts cannot train into or use capitals.
6. No skill extraction on Alpha accounts. Omega accounts can only use extractors after being subbed for a consecutive 3 (4? 10?) months.
******* BAM. Results?
- New players don't hit a paywall until they're considering training into capitals, by which point they're invested into the game enough to not see it as P2W as they understand the differences between cap and subcap combat.
- New players don't feel like it's P2W, as they can train into whatever that guy was using to kill them, without paying.
- New players have a real incentive to sub, as it doubles training speed. Older players have an incentive to stay subbed, as they can't use caps OR ALTS without (just like now).
- Older players can't abuse this at all. They want a cyno alt? PI alts? Skill farm alts? Sub it, like you do now. Nothing changes for us.
-Newer players wanting alts will have to sub. If you like the game enough to go to the effort of juggling multiple accounts for an edge, you can pay for it. No dramas.
There's one issue I can see with this (and doubtlessly a few I can't); vets with perfect skills who don't care for alts and only stick around for subcap combat. CCP would lose those subs, as they probably wouldn't find jump clone timers that important in general to pay for. If some of you have ideas for a limitation that would incentivize these people subbing (but not force it), that would be great. That being said, I'd think the amount of fresh blood and subs coming in would make up for the loss in that area. So your proposing that 70% of the client base may as well unsub as they could be happy with there current position in game and arnt interested or have a cap pilot theyre willing to pay for as an alt. You start a new character as omega get it to where i needs to be rapidly gain any passive income and combat / scanning skills it needs and and then drop to alpha so its then free
Is that what your trying to say here. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1921
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 08:37:41 -
[1144] - Quote
Alpha - redesign of the existing triel and making it an unlimited one
Omega - normal subscription
Akrasjel Lanate
Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
|
Rendering
Ten Dollar Bond GoonSwarm
12
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 10:24:18 -
[1145] - Quote
FireFrost wrote: (which no one that works can do running lvl 4s and would seriously cut into family time even running incursions )
Anecdotal evidence of people from HORDE, BRAVE, etc. all indicate that, yes you can afford a PLEX playing EVE and having a real time job. In fact, exploration (for example) is pretty easy to do to earn the ISK you need to buy a PLEX and has been for over a year and a half. |
Aehren Armitage
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 10:38:38 -
[1146] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote: So your proposing that 70% of the client base may as well unsub as they could be happy with there current position in game and arnt interested or have a cap pilot theyre willing to pay for as an alt. You start a new character as omega get it to where i needs to be rapidly gain any passive income and combat / scanning skills it needs and and then drop to alpha so its then free
Is that what your trying to say here.
Well, you can't have an alt unless all related accounts are subbed. No-one could have an alpha subcap account and an alt cap account. With the proposed system, alpha accounts would be solely the domain of new players.
But you're right, and there may be too many pilots happy to sit on 30-50m SP with what might as well be no further training, so there could/should be more limitations.
Carniflex wrote: In my opinion this sounds quite reasonable, however, I do think that there should be a ship size restriction to some degree under capitals as well at least. Giving the free players battleships and T2 ships and most importantly - mining barges could be quite disruptive to the economy. Predominantly for PvE reasons - it would make it viable for Alphas to run incursions with shiny BS groups which I believe would go a bit too far up the pole to be reasonable for a free account.
No T2 and up to cruiser size would be what I would consider good balance, as is proposed in the original devblog.
While at first glance the suggestion to have exponentially decaying skill training rate as a function of total SP seems pretty good the problem would be industry related skills, as these can be had at relatively good levels at fairly low sp amount and industry scales damn good with the number of accounts one can throw at it. combined with some form of skill list restriction for Alphas it would be pretty reasonable idea. Say, starting at full speed at 400k SP and more or less linearly decaying to 50% speed at about 10 mil SP or so.
I like the SP acquisition throttle idea, but I can't really get behind the ship locks.
The goal of my rough proposal was to have the F2P (alpha) experience not be locked behind a paywall in terms of combat. If there are locks on T2 ships, modules, etc., Eve will very quickly become known as the most P2W game outside of Korea. Its reputation will instantly go down the shitter.
The issue remains, though, that the limitations I cooked up aren't quite enough for pilots happy to remain in subcaps with highly reduced training. So, ideas:
Alphas cannot:
- Anchor. Anything. - Use jump clones - Use Polarized weapons (a bit iffy on this one, but they're so rarely used I don't see alphas dying to them enough (at all) for it to become seen as P2W) - Use skill injectors, as well as extractors
Could also play with the idea of market limitations, such as only being able to buy X things per day (or just have X transactions per day, of any amount, so as to not screw over miners/industrialist alphas).
The idea is to get Alpha players to think "Aw ****, I really wish I were subbed right now" at least once per session, without tying that feeling to DPS or EHP, or locking an activity out completely. Make the Alpha experience fun, broad, but with several clear inconveniences.
High on a hill was a lonely goat herd.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 12:07:50 -
[1147] - Quote
I can understand the argument that ship classes should not be locked being a paywall. Normal and in general what is considered "fair" free-to-play is when there is in essence no limit on free accounts in regards of combat effectiveness but instead there is grind and/or slower resource/experience accumulation for free guys. However, that notation has risen predominantly from free to play shooters with unlocks. EVE is far more complex entity and I'm afraid that taking such approach would be far too disruptive for the EVE economy. Various aspects in that regard have been quite heavily discussed in this thread and elsewhere already so I'm not gonna dig up them again in this post.
PVP wise I honestly would not see problem in-game balance wise if free-to-play dudes would have no ship locks at all, including super-capitals, T3's, etc. There would be a question ofc if then anyone would sub at all but I am quite confident many would. I am still happy as clam, for example, about removal of medical clones to the point I did another 1 year sub over it on my main account. Even though I undock rarely nowadays and "play" EVE more like a chat channel with subscription.
As it stands, though, it is immense change in EVE. Because everything is interconnected I really really believe that a reasonable approach would be being somewhat caoutious. Limiting industry availability quite significantly at first and rolling this thing out at first with only access to T1 frigates (but with access to T2 modules and no level caps on relevant skills for combat fits). Combined with slower skill training, slower resource accumulation and exclusion of specific modules like cloaks and cynos it would give time to monitor to impact of such a huge change and add further ship classes as deemed safe enough.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Velores Prokhozai
WARP Mechanics Fidelas Constans
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 12:22:06 -
[1148] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:"fair" free-to-play
But we are not going free2play didn't you get it yet? EVE remains sub based game, just now we have ability to look at it, try, taste as long as you want without sub. To try - dosen't mean you have all content. Okay? |
beakerax
Pator Tech School
303
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 12:51:13 -
[1149] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:There is nothing stopping this now, if I understand your suggestion. Such a system would be an inverse of the SRP programs many corporations/alliances already have. For sure, but handling the payouts would be :effort: |
Egsise
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 13:28:36 -
[1150] - Quote
Skill extracting and selling the sp easily makes enough in a month to buy a plex so Eve is F2P.
Why would anyone over 5,5 mil sp would settle to play free with alpha clone and reduced skills when he can play for free and without any ship or module restrictions just by selling his sp and buying a plex with it? (you sell the skills what you get in a month so you don't lose any skills, it's just skill harvesting)
CCP have you really thought this through? |
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Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 13:56:25 -
[1151] - Quote
Egsise wrote:Skill extracting and selling the sp easily makes enough in a month to buy a plex so Eve is F2P.
Why would anyone over 5,5 mil sp would settle to play free with alpha clone and reduced skills when he can play for free and without any ship or module restrictions just by selling his sp and buying a plex with it? (you sell the skills what you get in a month so you don't lose any skills, it's just skill harvesting)
CCP have you really thought this through? Have you, the alpha needs to be made an omega before any extraction is possible, the max amount per month is 3 plus a good head start for the next extraction but that is with +5's installed. So your looking @ 1bill plus and rising again for a plex then the cost of your 3 extractors 210m to 250m all coming out of a max profit of 1.95 bill a month and a toon that is relatively dead in the water as anything you train on it past its base 5 mill are being harvested every 500k. Its good as a side line but not much use unless its trained from an omega grade from the start or its skill set will be pre determinded. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 14:05:30 -
[1152] - Quote
Egsise wrote:Skill extracting and selling the sp easily makes enough in a month to buy a plex so Eve is F2P.
Why would anyone over 5,5 mil sp would settle to play free with alpha clone and reduced skills when he can play for free and without any ship or module restrictions just by selling his sp and buying a plex with it? (you sell the skills what you get in a month so you don't lose any skills, it's just skill harvesting)
CCP have you really thought this through?
Vast majority of people do not know that. Plus if everyone would be doing that the market would sort of collapse to the point one would still add some extra to the pot.
There is other, more reliable (i.e., market independent, other than the PLEX price itself ofc), more grindy options where additional account(s) can pay for themselves PLEX price + little extra. Mining and additional wingmans in missionrunning/null anoms/incursions, for example. The grindy options ofc require a certain amount of playtime per week/month.
Alphas are different in this regard that they are aimed more at "causal" types who either do not have the knowledge to play-for-free the current EVE or do not have enough playtime or start-up funds to do that.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 14:21:26 -
[1153] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:Skill extracting and selling the sp easily makes enough in a month to buy a plex so Eve is F2P.
Why would anyone over 5,5 mil sp would settle to play free with alpha clone and reduced skills when he can play for free and without any ship or module restrictions just by selling his sp and buying a plex with it? (you sell the skills what you get in a month so you don't lose any skills, it's just skill harvesting)
CCP have you really thought this through? Have you, the alpha needs to be made an omega before any extraction is possible, the max amount per month is 3 plus a good head start for the next extraction but that is with +5's installed. So your looking @ 1bill plus and rising again for a plex then the cost of your 3 extractors 210m to 250m all coming out of a max profit of 1.95 bill a month and a toon that is relatively dead in the water as anything you train on it past its base 5 mill are being harvested every 500k. Its good as a side line but not much use unless its trained from an omega grade from the start or its skill set will be pre determinded.
I actually have a fair number of sub 5 mil SP very specialized alts. Most of them are old R&D alts (datacores) + blops cyno + point. They cant shoot their way out of the wet paper bag ofc, but by spezializing very narrowly at certain things 5 mil can go pretty far.
About 1 mil SP for Science (10 lab slots + R&D cores related skill) About 1.5 mil SP Navigation (Cyno 5 bulk of it) About 2 mil in Spaceship command (Cov Ops frig and few utrility things) Random other skills + Cloaking 4 the rest. Add in approx 1 mil SP in Production for 10 slots there as well. Add in approx 1 mil in Neural Enchantment for cybernetics 5 and some jump clones
You have now 7 mil SP char (4.5 mil if you drop blops cynos) with 10x R&D and 10 production slots, able to plug in Cybernetics 5 implants which could be used for a day as blops hunter or your local AFK cloaker who can actually bring in the hammer in-addition to smacking in local.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 14:28:19 -
[1154] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:Skill extracting and selling the sp easily makes enough in a month to buy a plex so Eve is F2P.
Why would anyone over 5,5 mil sp would settle to play free with alpha clone and reduced skills when he can play for free and without any ship or module restrictions just by selling his sp and buying a plex with it? (you sell the skills what you get in a month so you don't lose any skills, it's just skill harvesting)
CCP have you really thought this through? Have you, the alpha needs to be made an omega before any extraction is possible, the max amount per month is 3 plus a good head start for the next extraction but that is with +5's installed. So your looking @ 1bill plus and rising again for a plex then the cost of your 3 extractors 210m to 250m all coming out of a max profit of 1.95 bill a month and a toon that is relatively dead in the water as anything you train on it past its base 5 mill are being harvested every 500k. Its good as a side line but not much use unless its trained from an omega grade from the start or its skill set will be pre determinded. I actually have a fair number of sub 5 mil SP very specialized alts. Most of them are old R&D alts (datacores) + blops cyno + point. They cant shoot their way out of the wet paper bag ofc, but by spezializing very narrowly at certain things 5 mil can go pretty far. About 1 mil SP for Science (10 lab slots + R&D cores related skill) About 1.5 mil SP Navigation (Cyno 5 bulk of it) About 2 mil in Spaceship command (Cov Ops frig and few utrility things) Random other skills + Cloaking 4 the rest. Add in approx 1 mil SP in Production for 10 slots there as well. Add in approx 1 mil in Neural Enchantment for cybernetics 5 and some jump clones You have now 7 mil SP char (4.5 mil if you drop blops cynos) with 10x R&D and 10 production slots, able to plug in Cybernetics 5 implants which could be used for a day as blops hunter or your local AFK cloaker who can actually bring in the hammer in-addition to smacking in local. i agree as i said, If you train as a subs account now or an omega in november you get to choose your retained skillset meaning you can have a viable alt for a specific purpose. If you use an Alpha to farm from after reaching its max free skillpoint status you cannot harvest the base skills it achieved only those trained after it became an omega making it a fairly random skillset. |
Egsise
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 14:30:08 -
[1155] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:Skill extracting and selling the sp easily makes enough in a month to buy a plex so Eve is F2P.
Why would anyone over 5,5 mil sp would settle to play free with alpha clone and reduced skills when he can play for free and without any ship or module restrictions just by selling his sp and buying a plex with it? (you sell the skills what you get in a month so you don't lose any skills, it's just skill harvesting)
CCP have you really thought this through? Have you, the alpha needs to be made an omega before any extraction is possible, the max amount per month is 3 plus a good head start for the next extraction but that is with +5's installed. So your looking @ 1bill plus and rising again for a plex then the cost of your 3 extractors 210m to 250m all coming out of a max profit of 1.95 bill a month and a toon that is relatively dead in the water as anything you train on it past its base 5 mill are being harvested every 500k. Its good as a side line but not much use unless its trained from an omega grade from the start or its skill set will be pre determinded.
Did you mean that a player with lets say 20mil sp who returns benefits more playing free with alpha clone and T1 ships, rather than using the full 20mil sp skills and selling skills he trains during the month he is in omega clone to buy plex to keep that character in omega state?
So can you explain what did you just say because I'm not sure if I understood you. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 14:38:24 -
[1156] - Quote
Egsise wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:Skill extracting and selling the sp easily makes enough in a month to buy a plex so Eve is F2P.
Why would anyone over 5,5 mil sp would settle to play free with alpha clone and reduced skills when he can play for free and without any ship or module restrictions just by selling his sp and buying a plex with it? (you sell the skills what you get in a month so you don't lose any skills, it's just skill harvesting)
CCP have you really thought this through? Have you, the alpha needs to be made an omega before any extraction is possible, the max amount per month is 3 plus a good head start for the next extraction but that is with +5's installed. So your looking @ 1bill plus and rising again for a plex then the cost of your 3 extractors 210m to 250m all coming out of a max profit of 1.95 bill a month and a toon that is relatively dead in the water as anything you train on it past its base 5 mill are being harvested every 500k. Its good as a side line but not much use unless its trained from an omega grade from the start or its skill set will be pre determinded. Did you mean that a player with lets say 20mil sp who returns benefits more playing free with alpha clone and T1 ships, rather than using the full 20mil sp skills and selling skills he trains during the month he is in omega clone to buy plex to keep that character in omega state? So can you explain what did you just say because I'm not sure if I understood you. No, i was using your anyone with over "5.5m skillpoints" meaning that its never going to accrue anymore skillpoints than the bare minimum allowed for extraction purposes. Obviously if someone is happy at a certain level and feels they no longer need there monthly earned skillpoints they could freely harvest away playing free but being static in progression. |
Egsise
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 14:44:57 -
[1157] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:Skill extracting and selling the sp easily makes enough in a month to buy a plex so Eve is F2P.
Why would anyone over 5,5 mil sp would settle to play free with alpha clone and reduced skills when he can play for free and without any ship or module restrictions just by selling his sp and buying a plex with it? (you sell the skills what you get in a month so you don't lose any skills, it's just skill harvesting)
CCP have you really thought this through? Have you, the alpha needs to be made an omega before any extraction is possible, the max amount per month is 3 plus a good head start for the next extraction but that is with +5's installed. So your looking @ 1bill plus and rising again for a plex then the cost of your 3 extractors 210m to 250m all coming out of a max profit of 1.95 bill a month and a toon that is relatively dead in the water as anything you train on it past its base 5 mill are being harvested every 500k. Its good as a side line but not much use unless its trained from an omega grade from the start or its skill set will be pre determinded. Did you mean that a player with lets say 20mil sp who returns benefits more playing free with alpha clone and T1 ships, rather than using the full 20mil sp skills and selling skills he trains during the month he is in omega clone to buy plex to keep that character in omega state? So can you explain what did you just say because I'm not sure if I understood you. No, i was using your anyone with over "5.5m skillpoints" meaning that its never going to accrue anymore skillpoints than the bare minimum allowed for extraction purposes. Obviously if someone is happy at a certain level and feels they no longer need there monthly earned skillpoints they could freely harvest away playing free but being static in progression.
YES, compared to alpha clone that is also limited to 5mil sp but with no T2 skills.
Returning player who has good skills doesn't need the alpha clone as he can just sell his skills to play on what level he is at that point.
So what CCP suggests is that they introduce a new F2P feature that is already in use because of the skill extractors and plex.
trololololol |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 14:58:55 -
[1158] - Quote
Egsise wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:Skill extracting and selling the sp easily makes enough in a month to buy a plex so Eve is F2P.
Why would anyone over 5,5 mil sp would settle to play free with alpha clone and reduced skills when he can play for free and without any ship or module restrictions just by selling his sp and buying a plex with it? (you sell the skills what you get in a month so you don't lose any skills, it's just skill harvesting)
CCP have you really thought this through? Have you, the alpha needs to be made an omega before any extraction is possible, the max amount per month is 3 plus a good head start for the next extraction but that is with +5's installed. So your looking @ 1bill plus and rising again for a plex then the cost of your 3 extractors 210m to 250m all coming out of a max profit of 1.95 bill a month and a toon that is relatively dead in the water as anything you train on it past its base 5 mill are being harvested every 500k. Its good as a side line but not much use unless its trained from an omega grade from the start or its skill set will be pre determinded. Did you mean that a player with lets say 20mil sp who returns benefits more playing free with alpha clone and T1 ships, rather than using the full 20mil sp skills and selling skills he trains during the month he is in omega clone to buy plex to keep that character in omega state? So can you explain what did you just say because I'm not sure if I understood you. No, i was using your anyone with over "5.5m skillpoints" meaning that its never going to accrue anymore skillpoints than the bare minimum allowed for extraction purposes. Obviously if someone is happy at a certain level and feels they no longer need there monthly earned skillpoints they could freely harvest away playing free but being static in progression. YES, compared to alpha clone that is also limited to 5mil sp but with no T2 skills. Returning player who has good skills doesn't need the alpha clone as he can just sell his skills to play on what level he is at that point. So what CCP suggests is that they introduce a new F2P feature that is already in use because of the skill extractors and plex.trololololol What point are you trying to make though, the returning 20m skill point player didn't just materialise though, He has invested a sub in the character in the past, just because he is utilising his assets (skillpoints) now to fund his game time but at the cost of no advancement. Also now he would have to sub to gain access to the character or already have a plex to reinstate it but when clone states arrives in November there will be no expired accounts. |
Aehren Armitage
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 15:06:18 -
[1159] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:I can understand the argument that ship classes should not be locked being a paywall. Normal and in general what is considered "fair" free-to-play is when there is in essence no limit on free accounts in regards of combat effectiveness but instead there is grind and/or slower resource/experience accumulation for free guys. However, that notation has risen predominantly from free to play shooters with unlocks. EVE is far more complex entity and I'm afraid that taking such approach would be far too disruptive for the EVE economy. Various aspects in that regard have been quite heavily discussed in this thread and elsewhere already so I'm not gonna dig up them again in this post.
I've read through the arguments regarding the economy too, and also read their counters.
They're all built on the presupposition that alpha accounts will be accessible by everyone, including currently subscribed players. The entire basis of my suggestion hinges on the premise that alpha accounts would only be available to eve virgins. The economy would be disrupted only insofar as any new industrialist would disrupt it; NOT if x% of the currently subscribed playerbase made an industry alt.
Carniflex wrote:As it stands, though, it is immense change in EVE. Because everything is interconnected I really really believe that a reasonable approach would be being somewhat caoutious. Limiting industry availability quite significantly at first and rolling this thing out at first with only access to T1 frigates (but with access to T2 modules and no level caps on relevant skills for combat fits). Combined with slower skill training, slower resource accumulation and exclusion of specific modules like cloaks and cynos it would give time to monitor to impact of such a huge change and add further ship classes as deemed safe enough.
With this I agree (in the interests of transparency, I would personally prefer eve stay sub-only to be honest, as I love the business model). But it brings us back to the issue of how this is being marketed. With their current iteration of this change, CCP should have called it "Endless Trial" or an equivalent, to make the parameters of this play option clear. They didn't. They didn't curb the "free to play" journalism that's erupted all over the internet either. Whatever they want to call it now, Eve is going free to play in one form or another, and the currently planned iteration is truly repulsive and will dump on Eve's reputation.
I think anyone with even a tiny amount of foresight can see why they didn't go with "endless trial"- this is only the beginning of clone states. There will be others added (beta, gamma, delta, epsilon)- and perhaps one of those additions will be similar to what I've been talking about. Maybe not. Maybe you'll be able to double-plex and train at 2x the rate.
High on a hill was a lonely goat herd.
|
Egsise
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 15:08:23 -
[1160] - Quote
That 20mil sp character is free to play right now(no pve, no grinding, no need to make any isk) Alpha clone is free to play but limited to 5mil sp and T1.
Think about it which is more fun to play. |
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 15:17:45 -
[1161] - Quote
Egsise wrote:That 20mil sp character is free to play right now(no pve, no grinding, no need to make any isk) Alpha clone is free to play but limited to 5mil sp and T1.
Think about it which is more fun to play. That Alpha is completely free, cost the owner nothing at all, If the alpha changed to omega trained the extact same skills as your 20 mill toon then did the same and started recycling, his will of been even cheaper to create as he get 5 mill free.
Just because you have it now means what exactly, everyone starts from scratch unless you plexed your toon from the bazaar, which guess what, you can do the exact same thing now too and have a 20m toon.
At the end of the day you trained your 20 mill from scratch, they only have to train from 5 to 20 but if you find it amusing so be it. |
Servjen
Giant Industrials Center for Digital Chemistry
57
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 15:43:02 -
[1162] - Quote
At the moment there is an promotion running where you get rewarded when you get a friend to play eve. How does the new clone states, alpha in particular, impact this?
This is where I put my signature, right?
|
Egsise
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 15:44:44 -
[1163] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:That 20mil sp character is free to play right now(no pve, no grinding, no need to make any isk) Alpha clone is free to play but limited to 5mil sp and T1.
Think about it which is more fun to play. That Alpha is completely free, cost the owner nothing at all, If the alpha changed to omega trained the extact same skills as your 20 mill toon then did the same and started recycling, his will of been even cheaper to create as he get 5 mill free. Just because you have it now means what exactly, everyone starts from scratch unless you plexed your toon from the bazaar, which guess what, you can do the exact same thing now too and have a 20m toon. At the end of the day you trained your 20 mill from scratch, they only have to train from 5 to 20 but if you find it amusing so be it. For a old player that returns the alpha clone has no value as you can just play with omega clone for free by selling sp. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 15:57:35 -
[1164] - Quote
Egsise wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:That 20mil sp character is free to play right now(no pve, no grinding, no need to make any isk) Alpha clone is free to play but limited to 5mil sp and T1.
Think about it which is more fun to play. That Alpha is completely free, cost the owner nothing at all, If the alpha changed to omega trained the extact same skills as your 20 mill toon then did the same and started recycling, his will of been even cheaper to create as he get 5 mill free. Just because you have it now means what exactly, everyone starts from scratch unless you plexed your toon from the bazaar, which guess what, you can do the exact same thing now too and have a 20m toon. At the end of the day you trained your 20 mill from scratch, they only have to train from 5 to 20 but if you find it amusing so be it. For a old player that returns the alpha clone has no value as you can just play with omega clone for free by selling sp. So by repeating the same thing 5 times does it make it seem like your getting an even better deal, Alpha's are designed for new players and to be honest why a 20 mill player on returning would just want to recycle his assets if there is new kit to be used is beyond me unless they're used to walking like a duck. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17960
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 16:20:38 -
[1165] - Quote
Egsise wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:That 20mil sp character is free to play right now(no pve, no grinding, no need to make any isk) Alpha clone is free to play but limited to 5mil sp and T1.
Think about it which is more fun to play. That Alpha is completely free, cost the owner nothing at all, If the alpha changed to omega trained the extact same skills as your 20 mill toon then did the same and started recycling, his will of been even cheaper to create as he get 5 mill free. Just because you have it now means what exactly, everyone starts from scratch unless you plexed your toon from the bazaar, which guess what, you can do the exact same thing now too and have a 20m toon. At the end of the day you trained your 20 mill from scratch, they only have to train from 5 to 20 but if you find it amusing so be it. For a old player that returns the alpha clone has no value as you can just play with omega clone for free by selling sp.
The value is that they can log in and **** around and maybe establish (or re-establish) in-game social contacts without burning through those assets.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Othran
Route One
737
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 17:20:03 -
[1166] - Quote
I foresee all sorts of unforeseen problems UK readers might get this
I have no doubt whatsoever that the Eve playerbase will test the system to destruction & CCP will play catchup (hopefully within a month) but the basic problem for me is that its not F2P.
I think it needs to be marketed as an extended/unlimited trial otherwise I foresee lots of crap heading CCPs way.
|
Egsise
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 17:47:05 -
[1167] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:That 20mil sp character is free to play right now(no pve, no grinding, no need to make any isk) Alpha clone is free to play but limited to 5mil sp and T1.
Think about it which is more fun to play. That Alpha is completely free, cost the owner nothing at all, If the alpha changed to omega trained the extact same skills as your 20 mill toon then did the same and started recycling, his will of been even cheaper to create as he get 5 mill free. Just because you have it now means what exactly, everyone starts from scratch unless you plexed your toon from the bazaar, which guess what, you can do the exact same thing now too and have a 20m toon. At the end of the day you trained your 20 mill from scratch, they only have to train from 5 to 20 but if you find it amusing so be it. For a old player that returns the alpha clone has no value as you can just play with omega clone for free by selling sp. So by repeating the same thing 5 times does it make it seem like your getting an even better deal, Alpha's are designed for new players and to be honest why a 20 mill player on returning would just want to recycle his assets if there is new kit to be used is beyond me unless they're used to walking like a duck. Yes, but no recycling. |
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
112
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 18:11:50 -
[1168] - Quote
Does anyone else know players/ former players who left EVE because their budget was so tight it no longer allowed them to pay? Maybe they were students, maybe had a family size increase, or maybe an employment decrease, bottom line was some good friends have left the game because their budgets needed breathing room.
If this allows some of them to return as Alphas I will be pleased. I don't live in fear of high sec ganking hordes of Alphas burning Jita, that is something paid account holders can do and have done anyway so nothing new. I hope the upside counters the downside. I think getting back some old players and luring in some new blood will be/ could be a very good thing.
If you fear casual ganking of your mining vessels move to low sec, it's takes a pair to sneak up on miners here and the cowards of high sec ganking who give us real pirates a bad name fear to tread here.
When I get the drop on you in low sec if you pay the ransom at that moment, no bs permit crap, you fly away free, if not you go pop if your friends don't show up to stop me. The clock is always running on me, will an NPC rat show up and shift the balance of my capture of you? Will some others show up in local on D-scan and blap both of us? Real risk and possible real reward, EVE at it's best imho. No guaranteed outcome for any conflict, because playing against another human being is unpredictable, infinitely better than any programmed NPC response. Another of EVE's finer qualities which makes play fresh even after a few years of subscription. Real live people with real actions and choices that impact everyone else potentially means you can't predict with certainty what tomorrow or the next jump will bring. That I embrace and want more people to participate in and make the EVE universe even better.
EVE is a place for honor even among us pirates it also is a place for the lowest common denominator. Those who want to have a good experience and make it interesting for other players to not rage quit will make the right choices, the others will mature and grow up one day eventually.
EVE is not a place for fear avoidance, it's a thrill seeker's roller coaster ride when done right. Embrace the risk, have the fun, don't try to nerf others into non-existance, CCP has tried this and never seems to get it quite right. Let's work for the best outcome while keeping our eyes open for bad outcomes without whining too much.
You are rolling the dice here CCP and I for one want you to win. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1128
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 22:24:28 -
[1169] - Quote
Ray Mitar wrote:Does anyone else know players/ former players who left EVE because their budget was so tight it no longer allowed them to pay? Maybe they were students, maybe had a family size increase, or maybe an employment decrease, bottom line was some good friends have left the game because their budgets needed breathing room.
If this allows some of them to return as Alphas I will be pleased. I don't live in fear of high sec ganking hordes of Alphas burning Jita, that is something paid account holders can do and have done anyway so nothing new. I hope the upside counters the downside. I think getting back some old players and luring in some new blood will be/ could be a very good thing.
If you fear casual ganking of your mining vessels move to low sec, it's takes a pair to sneak up on miners here and the cowards of high sec ganking who give us real pirates a bad name fear to tread here.
When I get the drop on you in low sec if you pay the ransom at that moment, no bs permit crap, you fly away free, if not you go pop if your friends don't show up to stop me. The clock is always running on me, will an NPC rat show up and shift the balance of my capture of you? Will some others show up in local on D-scan and blap both of us? Real risk and possible real reward, EVE at it's best imho. No guaranteed outcome for any conflict, because playing against another human being is unpredictable, infinitely better than any programmed NPC response. Another of EVE's finer qualities which makes play fresh even after a few years of subscription. Real live people with real actions and choices that impact everyone else potentially means you can't predict with certainty what tomorrow or the next jump will bring. That I embrace and want more people to participate in and make the EVE universe even better.
EVE is a place for honor even among us pirates it also is a place for the lowest common denominator. Those who want to have a good experience and make it interesting for other players to not rage quit will make the right choices, the others will mature and grow up one day eventually.
EVE is not a place for fear avoidance, it's a thrill seeker's roller coaster ride when done right. Embrace the risk, have the fun, don't try to nerf others into non-existance, CCP has tried this and never seems to get it quite right. Let's work for the best outcome while keeping our eyes open for bad outcomes without whining too much.
You are rolling the dice here CCP and I for one want you to win. You really think a bunch of veteran players are going to return to the game - to fly T1 ships with meta fittings? LOL, sorry but your a little deluded. Think I'm wrong - Fit up a meta cruiser or any T1 frigate, destroyer or cruiser, remove all your lvl 5 skills and go try to do what you say you do now. In fact, go try to do just about anything solo. I'm sure you'll soon see the error of your opening statement. F2P or not, a player used to flying whatever he wants, restricted to T1 ships with meta modules will soon lose interest.
On that note, Alpha clones should also have restrictions on the amount and type of Faction, Dead Space modules they can use.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
113
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 22:45:39 -
[1170] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Ray Mitar wrote:Does anyone else know players/ former players who left EVE because their budget was so tight it no longer allowed them to pay? Maybe they were students, maybe had a family size increase, or maybe an employment decrease, bottom line was some good friends have left the game because their budgets needed breathing room.
If this allows some of them to return as Alphas I will be pleased. I don't live in fear of high sec ganking hordes of Alphas burning Jita, that is something paid account holders can do and have done anyway so nothing new. I hope the upside counters the downside. I think getting back some old players and luring in some new blood will be/ could be a very good thing.
If you fear casual ganking of your mining vessels move to low sec, it's takes a pair to sneak up on miners here and the cowards of high sec ganking who give us real pirates a bad name fear to tread here.
When I get the drop on you in low sec if you pay the ransom at that moment, no bs permit crap, you fly away free, if not you go pop if your friends don't show up to stop me. The clock is always running on me, will an NPC rat show up and shift the balance of my capture of you? Will some others show up in local on D-scan and blap both of us? Real risk and possible real reward, EVE at it's best imho. No guaranteed outcome for any conflict, because playing against another human being is unpredictable, infinitely better than any programmed NPC response. Another of EVE's finer qualities which makes play fresh even after a few years of subscription. Real live people with real actions and choices that impact everyone else potentially means you can't predict with certainty what tomorrow or the next jump will bring. That I embrace and want more people to participate in and make the EVE universe even better.
EVE is a place for honor even among us pirates it also is a place for the lowest common denominator. Those who want to have a good experience and make it interesting for other players to not rage quit will make the right choices, the others will mature and grow up one day eventually.
EVE is not a place for fear avoidance, it's a thrill seeker's roller coaster ride when done right. Embrace the risk, have the fun, don't try to nerf others into non-existance, CCP has tried this and never seems to get it quite right. Let's work for the best outcome while keeping our eyes open for bad outcomes without whining too much.
You are rolling the dice here CCP and I for one want you to win. You really think a bunch of veteran players are going to return to the game - to fly T1 ships with meta fittings? LOL, sorry but your a little deluded. Think I'm wrong - Fit up a meta cruiser or any T1 frigate, destroyer or cruiser, remove all your lvl 5 skills and go try to do what you say you do now. In fact, go try to do just about anything solo. I'm sure you'll soon see the error of your opening statement. F2P or not, a player used to flying whatever he wants, restricted to T1 ships with meta modules will soon lose interest. On that note, Alpha clones should also have restrictions on the amount and type of Faction, Dead Space modules they can use. Does your definition of deluded mean whenever I don't agree with you? If is does okay, your opinion, if not, it is an insult not merited by my comments. I have an alt account I created so that I could participate with my old NPC corp in corp chat. That account is not trained up and is several years old. A lot of why I play EVE is for the corp mates and people not just the bigger and bigger ships.
I wanted the player corp experience and had to leave my old NPC to get it, CCP doesn't let you go back and instead sends you to a different NPC.
I am proof that your hypothesis is not correct, because I don't need all those extra skills to enjoy EVE even as a multi year vet. I use accounts like you might use ships, each has a specialty, something they do pretty well at the expense of being able to do it all. So yes some players will return when the financial barrier is removed, some will stay. Yes some will be frustrated by the Alpha restrictions but perhaps not all. Getting them back into the game is better them keeping them away imho.
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Absolute Intoleranto
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 23:12:19 -
[1171] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:You really think a bunch of veteran players are going to return to the game - to fly T1 ships with meta fittings? LOL, sorry but your a little deluded. Think I'm wrong - Fit up a meta cruiser or any T1 frigate, destroyer or cruiser, remove all your lvl 5 skills and go try to do what you say you do now. In fact, go try to do just about anything solo. I'm sure you'll soon see the error of your opening statement. F2P or not, a player used to flying whatever he wants, restricted to T1 ships with meta modules will soon lose interest.
On that note, Alpha clones should also have restrictions on the amount and type of Faction, Dead Space modules they can use.
Current day: Coming back to EVE means also to pay again. Something that holds some people back.
After november: This f2p mode lets them come back for free. Enjoy the game and remember funny times. Something that can convince some people to come back.
See the difference? |
Stoner Vision CodeMonkey
Cyberian Soldiers
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 02:30:02 -
[1172] - Quote
I was wondering if it would be possible for the alpha clones to be able to use non-standard fits. it seems really limiting to me to force an armor tank on Galentee ships for the sake of a smaller skill tree. In a way, it seems like there's very few fits that actually would work really well for an alpha, which gives huge counters (1 omega killing 10+ trials because they have no way of countering that omega).
I would love to recruit alphas into the game and have a good time, and plan on doing exactly that, but on my end, I love having strange doctrines, and unfortunately it doesn't seem like that's possible with an alpha account now. like, what's the huge disadvantage of putting smart bombs on a caldari ship, or nuets on a minitar ship? if you allow smartbombs and nuets on an amarr ship. You could say that person should have made an amarr alpha clone, but I don't see my friends liking that restriction, nor do I see a huge advantage to having that limitation.
My 2 cents: Allow all forms of E-War on all ships. Allow non standard tank (including emission / remote armor repair) on all races. Allow other non standard modules / weapons? (ex: lasers on a caldari ship)
As far as security restricting for suicide ganking, I'd be curious to see about restriction, the fact is you can do a lot of damage if you have a large enough swarm, but the as far as I can tell the investment is actually higher after this update due to security status requirements.
If you allow one race to do it, and it's not considered game breaking in the most powerful form, who cares if there's some guy with a nuet on a tristan that has a shield tank.
Honestly though, I'm really excited, I have a few friends that have expressed interest, but wouldn't try the game because of the "heafty" price tag. I am fairly certain they would find the idea of screwing around in some weaker, silly ships quite entertaining while getting smashed to bits (only to make that kill in low/null sec so much more satisfying when we actually, finally manage to pop something). |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
702
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 03:38:02 -
[1173] - Quote
The general idea is for them to subscribe, you know ...? Show some leg, give 'em time to complete the tutorial in their own time- that's all. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 07:44:40 -
[1174] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:The general idea is for them to subscribe, you know ...? Show some leg, give 'em time to complete the tutorial in their own time- that's all.
While subscription would be indeed nice to have out of them I would argue that even if the Alpha does not subscribe he/she benefits the game through all the interactions with other (probably paying) persons. For that reason I do believe it would be best that the restrictions on the Alpha account should be light enough for it to remain competitive with Omegas in the niche that is intended for Alphas to fulfill. Which currently is T1 ships up to cruiser size but with so severe restrictions on relevant skill levels that Alpha has no hope of winning an engagement against an Omega if Omega is even half competent.
See, for example comparison of Omen with Alpha fit against the same Omega fit: http://www.overclock.net/g/i/2864021/created-with-gimp/sort/display_order/
Omega is doing 20% more dps (plus applies said dps better) at 22km (scorch) than Alpha can do at 6 km (imp navy multifreq). On top of having better hp buffer, 230 m/s faster and better cap life.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
EnForceR Zealot
A.Y.N.I.K The Methodical Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 08:57:18 -
[1175] - Quote
Dear CCP, before you develop another trash-patch let me give you a little advice -> please do some homework and spend time/money to research/ask new players why they leaving eve. Then carefully combine the pieces to see full picture of what is happening. Atfter this you can discuss with CMS about that picture. Then comes discussion with managers. IMHO the only result you can get this way is to agree that at least big 4 month patch needs to be paid in noobs case. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
703
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 08:58:59 -
[1176] - Quote
Yes. Interaction is good. Competitive, however, is not. Why? Because there is no 'intended niche' for these clones -- I resent the notion that certain playstyles are handed out for free whilst I have to plex a separate account for cyno alts.
It may sound harsh but these clones fulfill two duties: (a) allow to play through the tutorial (b) be cannon fodder
When I have to field a 200 mil cruiser and a subscription to be competitive to droves of fully skilled 20 mil T1 cruisers, there is a problem. Spectre fleet runs frigate, destroyer and cruiser fleets all the time. FW is full of them. Were these to be fully skilled vessels for nana, I couldn't help but feel scammed.
Sure I have the option of flying something else, but quite frankly I want a better clone than theirs in any ship class. My T1 frig needs to make bigger holes than theirs. Shipclass is a tactical decision, you see... we don't always fly the biggest ship; we fly the most suitable ship. Those are more often than not cruiser and down.
Allowing one but limiting another can only lead to resentment: no free barge for miners, but a free dessie pilot for gankers? No free cyno frig for me, but free FW fun in tristans and vexors for you? No free scout for us in nullsec while others happily play around in highsec for nullpay? That can't be right man. Limitations are necessary.
Back in the day, by the time I got my first cruiser and the skill to sit in it (level 2 it was), meta 2-4 mods and darn few engineering skills, I knew it was time to decide. Tutorial was over: stay or go? Now the winds are blowing another tune, and that's dandy, but consider there are players who never fly anything but Thrashers, Caracals, Punishers or Slashers. Be that as it may, as far as I'm concerned I'd still like to see a tangible difference between an Alfa slasher and an Omega slasher. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 09:14:32 -
[1177] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:The general idea is for them to subscribe, you know ...? Show some leg, give 'em time to complete the tutorial in their own time- that's all. While subscription would be indeed nice to have out of them I would argue that even if the Alpha does not subscribe he/she benefits the game through all the interactions with other (probably paying) persons. For that reason I do believe it would be best that the restrictions on the Alpha account should be light enough for it to remain competitive with Omegas in the niche that is intended for Alphas to fulfill. Which currently is T1 ships up to cruiser size but with so severe restrictions on relevant skill levels that Alpha has no hope of winning an engagement against an Omega if Omega is even half competent. See, for example comparison of Omen with Alpha fit against the same Omega fit: http://www.overclock.net/g/i/2864021/created-with-gimp/sort/display_order/ Omega is doing 20% more dps (plus applies said dps better) at 22km (scorch) than Alpha can do at 6 km (imp navy multifreq). On top of having better hp buffer, 230 m/s faster and better cap life. Different scenario, Your T2 fitted omen Vs 2 t1 fitted caracals who happen upon you randomly and decide they want a bit of fun. They're both fairly competent now and have been playing for 3 or so months doing roams and fleet ops, hows your scorch measure upto against there heavies or rapid lights.
EvE isn't fair never has been and never will be, Just because your limited in equipment does mean you are by numbers. |
Alexander Bor
Polaris Global Axiom Vocation Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 09:52:43 -
[1178] - Quote
Here I would like to depict problems of EVE online on the current stage of development. Though being not prominent now, they could become leading factors of destabilization in our virtual world after Clone States release. This will happen because of multiplification by all this "fresh blood". According natural laws quantity is transformed into quality. And you will loose the control over the situation.
Here are this factors:
- bots in market and mining (at the current moment CCP have no effective mechanisms to prevent bots being exists at the New Eden. One mining bot cannot change mineral price on a critical way but one market bot at Jita can derail this "train"); - brittle market (unstable and unbalanced market inside EVE could be crashed of just single simple impact. Being ruined it may never back to previous state); - imperfect CONCORD (mechanic of this wonderfull organization requires updating. It cannot counter challenges of today. Ganking possibility must be seriously restricted); - "dead" industry (CCP developed PVP very much and now this part of gameplay is good enough. But industrial branches are now more like imitaion rather than real alive path. In the current state there's no place for uindustrialists to perpetuate their real talents, to turn their individual gifts into reality. Industry must more complex and there must be place for diversity if you want this direction to be called real.).
So one should think twice if he is ready to face all the problems and chaous after november. Or he will be trying this virtual world like a kid or he bring computations and analysis into his steps. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 11:24:07 -
[1179] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote: Different scenario, Your T2 fitted omen Vs 2 t1 fitted caracals who happen upon you randomly and decide they want a bit of fun. They're both fairly competent now and have been playing for 3 or so months doing roams and fleet ops, hows your scorch measure upto against there heavies or rapid lights.
EvE isn't fair never has been and never will be, Just because your limited in equipment doesn't mean you are by numbers.
In that scenario if the Omen would decide to stick around he would probably lose - although unless he gets scrammed he would have enough velocity advantage to have a possibility of sticking around long enough to see if he can chew through one of these. In EVE numbers can often be used to trump smaller numbers in higher quality fits. Yes, "fair" 1vs1 rarely happens, but for the free-to-play player to perceive situation as "fair enough" to stick around while he/she decides if he is willing to spend money on the game there must be light in the end of the tunnel. There must be some kind of theoretical possibility, at minimum, to be "as good" as the paying customer in the thing which the F2P player is interested in. Cruisers are not particularly good example in that regard ofc as cruiser specific areas in EVE are practically non-existent. Unlike frigates which have all these nice little locked sandboxes where cruisers and above can not go.
I would like to remind one of the phrases which was uttered a while ago when supercapitals got nerfed/changed. It went something like this: "if your best counter is to bring just more of the same thing this thing is unbalanced". If only way for the Alphas to "win" is to outnumber the opposition then I honestly do not understand why would any genuinely fresh player play Alpha any more than 1-2 months at max. Alpha alts of Omegas are going to be there anyway as any sub that runs out will drop into Alpha state by default.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17960
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 11:37:30 -
[1180] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: Different scenario, Your T2 fitted omen Vs 2 t1 fitted caracals who happen upon you randomly and decide they want a bit of fun. They're both fairly competent now and have been playing for 3 or so months doing roams and fleet ops, hows your scorch measure upto against there heavies or rapid lights.
EvE isn't fair never has been and never will be, Just because your limited in equipment doesn't mean you are by numbers.
In that scenario if the Omen would decide to stick around he would probably lose - although unless he gets scrammed he would have enough velocity advantage to have a possibility of sticking around long enough to see if he can chew through one of these. In EVE numbers can often be used to trump smaller numbers in higher quality fits. Yes, "fair" 1vs1 rarely happens, but for the free-to-play player to perceive situation as "fair enough" to stick around while he/she decides if he is willing to spend money on the game there must be light in the end of the tunnel. There must be some kind of theoretical possibility, at minimum, to be "as good" as the paying customer in the thing which the F2P player is interested in. Cruisers are not particularly good example in that regard ofc as cruiser specific areas in EVE are practically non-existent. Unlike frigates which have all these nice little locked sandboxes where cruisers and above can not go. I would like to remind one of the phrases which was uttered a while ago when supercapitals got nerfed/changed. It went something like this: "if your best counter is to bring just more of the same thing this thing is unbalanced". If only way for the Alphas to "win" is to outnumber the opposition then I honestly do not understand why would any genuinely fresh player play Alpha any more than 1-2 months at max. Alpha alts of Omegas are going to be there anyway as any sub that runs out will drop into Alpha state by default.
Perhaps one way to square this circle would be a rethink of meta turrets and launchers. At the moment, as you have so articulately elucidated, T2 are strictly better in every stat except fitting (and cap use for many turrets). I think it would be may more interesting if meta weapons were comparable - or even superior - to T2 in their specialist stat (eg: range, tracking, RoF, etc), but with the T2 variant being no worse than second best at anything. This would obviously leave T2 as a preferrable general alternative, but would make the meta weapons viable for specific builds - and therefore Alpha-compatible fits also.
Secondarily, a rework of faction weapon costs is LONG overdue. They are ludicroucly overpriced because the LP store cost of these items seemingly takes no account of the fact that you need 3-8 weapons per fit, unlike most other items which you need only one of. A straight up change to the LP store BPCs giving 5 runs would go a long way to making faction weapons an actual viable choice, and this again would make things better for Alphas.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
|
Dread Red
11
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 11:46:50 -
[1181] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: Different scenario, Your T2 fitted omen Vs 2 t1 fitted caracals who happen upon you randomly and decide they want a bit of fun. They're both fairly competent now and have been playing for 3 or so months doing roams and fleet ops, hows your scorch measure upto against there heavies or rapid lights.
EvE isn't fair never has been and never will be, Just because your limited in equipment doesn't mean you are by numbers.
In that scenario if the Omen would decide to stick around he would probably lose - although unless he gets scrammed he would have enough velocity advantage to have a possibility of sticking around long enough to see if he can chew through one of these. In EVE numbers can often be used to trump smaller numbers in higher quality fits. Yes, "fair" 1vs1 rarely happens, but for the free-to-play player to perceive situation as "fair enough" to stick around while he/she decides if he is willing to spend money on the game there must be light in the end of the tunnel. There must be some kind of theoretical possibility, at minimum, to be "as good" as the paying customer in the thing which the F2P player is interested in. Cruisers are not particularly good example in that regard ofc as cruiser specific areas in EVE are practically non-existent. Unlike frigates which have all these nice little locked sandboxes where cruisers and above can not go. I would like to remind one of the phrases which was uttered a while ago when supercapitals got nerfed/changed. It went something like this: "if your best counter is to bring just more of the same thing this thing is unbalanced". If only way for the Alphas to "win" is to outnumber the opposition then I honestly do not understand why would any genuinely fresh player play Alpha any more than 1-2 months at max. Alpha alts of Omegas are going to be there anyway as any sub that runs out will drop into Alpha state by default. Perhaps one way to square this circle would be a rethink of meta turrets and launchers. At the moment, as you have so articulately elucidated, T2 are strictly better in every stat except fitting (and cap use for many turrets). I think it would be may more interesting if meta weapons were comparable - or even superior - to T2 in their specialist stat (eg: range, tracking, RoF, etc), but with the T2 variant being no worse than second best at anything. This would obviously leave T2 as a preferrable general alternative, but would make the meta weapons viable for specific builds - and therefore Alpha-compatible fits also. Secondarily, a rework of faction weapon costs is LONG overdue. They are ludicroucly overpriced because the LP store cost of these items seemingly takes no account of the fact that you need 3-8 weapons per fit, unlike most other items which you need only one of. A straight up change to the LP store BPCs giving 5 runs would go a long way to making faction weapons an actual viable choice, and this again would make things better for Alphas. Sadly as a former CSM member, and a damn fine one, you probably know all too well more often than not CCP doesn't care about making things better for Alphas or even the majority of their paying subscribers, who are in high sec. CCP wants to implement it's vision of how it's game should be played and needs to be dragged kicking and screaming from anything that varies from their fore drawn conclusions.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 12:35:49 -
[1182] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:"if your best counter is to bring just more of the same thing this thing is unbalanced". If only way for the Alphas to "win" is to outnumber the opposition then I honestly do not understand why would any genuinely fresh player play Alpha any more than 1-2 months at max. Alpha alts of Omegas are going to be there anyway as any sub that runs out will drop into Alpha state by default.
What happens when an explorer jumps into a WH i can assure you most of the kill mails dont list a 1v1 fight , But as long as the explorer has a T2 fit and the team that gank him have a T2 fit in your eyes this is fair then . Its not just the kit but how you organise your resources, SWArm used to have a blast on there roams with anyone who wanted to join them and 95% of there shield or armour ship fits were pure T1. You dont need to have an elitist attitude to have fun. Just a willingness to learn and follow simple commands
The whole purpose of this is to give them a proper taste of the game without the shackles of time, naturally after there pinnacle of free learning expires at 5 mill skill points i would also expect anyone who has a genuine interest in the game to either of already subbed or would be ready to to further advance there use of higher tier modules. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17962
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 13:15:10 -
[1183] - Quote
Dread Red wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: Different scenario, Your T2 fitted omen Vs 2 t1 fitted caracals who happen upon you randomly and decide they want a bit of fun. They're both fairly competent now and have been playing for 3 or so months doing roams and fleet ops, hows your scorch measure upto against there heavies or rapid lights.
EvE isn't fair never has been and never will be, Just because your limited in equipment doesn't mean you are by numbers.
In that scenario if the Omen would decide to stick around he would probably lose - although unless he gets scrammed he would have enough velocity advantage to have a possibility of sticking around long enough to see if he can chew through one of these. In EVE numbers can often be used to trump smaller numbers in higher quality fits. Yes, "fair" 1vs1 rarely happens, but for the free-to-play player to perceive situation as "fair enough" to stick around while he/she decides if he is willing to spend money on the game there must be light in the end of the tunnel. There must be some kind of theoretical possibility, at minimum, to be "as good" as the paying customer in the thing which the F2P player is interested in. Cruisers are not particularly good example in that regard ofc as cruiser specific areas in EVE are practically non-existent. Unlike frigates which have all these nice little locked sandboxes where cruisers and above can not go. I would like to remind one of the phrases which was uttered a while ago when supercapitals got nerfed/changed. It went something like this: "if your best counter is to bring just more of the same thing this thing is unbalanced". If only way for the Alphas to "win" is to outnumber the opposition then I honestly do not understand why would any genuinely fresh player play Alpha any more than 1-2 months at max. Alpha alts of Omegas are going to be there anyway as any sub that runs out will drop into Alpha state by default. Perhaps one way to square this circle would be a rethink of meta turrets and launchers. At the moment, as you have so articulately elucidated, T2 are strictly better in every stat except fitting (and cap use for many turrets). I think it would be may more interesting if meta weapons were comparable - or even superior - to T2 in their specialist stat (eg: range, tracking, RoF, etc), but with the T2 variant being no worse than second best at anything. This would obviously leave T2 as a preferrable general alternative, but would make the meta weapons viable for specific builds - and therefore Alpha-compatible fits also. Secondarily, a rework of faction weapon costs is LONG overdue. They are ludicroucly overpriced because the LP store cost of these items seemingly takes no account of the fact that you need 3-8 weapons per fit, unlike most other items which you need only one of. A straight up change to the LP store BPCs giving 5 runs would go a long way to making faction weapons an actual viable choice, and this again would make things better for Alphas. Sadly as a former CSM member, and a damn fine one, you probably know all too well more often than not CCP doesn't care about making things better for Alphas or even the majority of their paying subscribers, who are in high sec. CCP wants to implement it's vision of how it's game should be played and needs to be dragged kicking and screaming from anything that varies from their fore drawn conclusions.
It's a bit too soon to accuse CCP of not caring about Alphas considering that there aren't any alphas.
An LP store review wouldn't just benefit hi-sec either.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Solecist Project
32893
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 13:16:47 -
[1184] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:The general idea is for them to subscribe, you know ...? Show some leg, give 'em time to complete the tutorial in their own time- that's all. Learning the game is done after subscription. Normally, at least.
With Alphas the whole thing changes completely ... ... because then everyone has unlimited time learning the game ... ... putting the teaching on a lower priority.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
|
Solecist Project
32893
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 13:32:17 -
[1185] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Dread Red wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: Different scenario, Your T2 fitted omen Vs 2 t1 fitted caracals who happen upon you randomly and decide they want a bit of fun. They're both fairly competent now and have been playing for 3 or so months doing roams and fleet ops, hows your scorch measure upto against there heavies or rapid lights.
EvE isn't fair never has been and never will be, Just because your limited in equipment doesn't mean you are by numbers.
In that scenario if the Omen would decide to stick around he would probably lose - although unless he gets scrammed he would have enough velocity advantage to have a possibility of sticking around long enough to see if he can chew through one of these. In EVE numbers can often be used to trump smaller numbers in higher quality fits. Yes, "fair" 1vs1 rarely happens, but for the free-to-play player to perceive situation as "fair enough" to stick around while he/she decides if he is willing to spend money on the game there must be light in the end of the tunnel. There must be some kind of theoretical possibility, at minimum, to be "as good" as the paying customer in the thing which the F2P player is interested in. Cruisers are not particularly good example in that regard ofc as cruiser specific areas in EVE are practically non-existent. Unlike frigates which have all these nice little locked sandboxes where cruisers and above can not go. I would like to remind one of the phrases which was uttered a while ago when supercapitals got nerfed/changed. It went something like this: "if your best counter is to bring just more of the same thing this thing is unbalanced". If only way for the Alphas to "win" is to outnumber the opposition then I honestly do not understand why would any genuinely fresh player play Alpha any more than 1-2 months at max. Alpha alts of Omegas are going to be there anyway as any sub that runs out will drop into Alpha state by default. Perhaps one way to square this circle would be a rethink of meta turrets and launchers. At the moment, as you have so articulately elucidated, T2 are strictly better in every stat except fitting (and cap use for many turrets). I think it would be may more interesting if meta weapons were comparable - or even superior - to T2 in their specialist stat (eg: range, tracking, RoF, etc), but with the T2 variant being no worse than second best at anything. This would obviously leave T2 as a preferrable general alternative, but would make the meta weapons viable for specific builds - and therefore Alpha-compatible fits also. Secondarily, a rework of faction weapon costs is LONG overdue. They are ludicroucly overpriced because the LP store cost of these items seemingly takes no account of the fact that you need 3-8 weapons per fit, unlike most other items which you need only one of. A straight up change to the LP store BPCs giving 5 runs would go a long way to making faction weapons an actual viable choice, and this again would make things better for Alphas. Sadly as a former CSM member, and a damn fine one, you probably know all too well more often than not CCP doesn't care about making things better for Alphas or even the majority of their paying subscribers, who are in high sec. CCP wants to implement it's vision of how it's game should be played and needs to be dragged kicking and screaming from anything that varies from their fore drawn conclusions. It's a bit too soon to accuse CCP of not caring about Alphas considering that there aren't any alphas. An LP store review wouldn't just benefit hi-sec either. Aren't a huge bulk of highsec people actually nullbear alts?
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
378
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 17:02:03 -
[1186] - Quote
Dread Red wrote:Sadly as a former CSM member, and a damn fine one, you probably know all too well more often than not CCP doesn't care about making things better for Alphas or even the majority of their paying subscribers, who are in high sec. CCP wants to implement it's vision of how it's game should be played and needs to be dragged kicking and screaming from anything that varies from their fore drawn conclusions.
That's because "most" people want to grind away in peace and do arena style combat. "Most" people want to get rid of piracy.
"The majority"of people would be better served by another game-one where "terribly wrong" doesn't mean you're out of months or years worth of material. There's no shortage of them. Or they could always go on Sisi, where we aren't allowed to kill each other. "The majority" of people couldn't care less which game they were playing as long as it's like every other themepark: do scripted content, get cookie, repeat until bored, leave. If "the majority" of people manage to get piracy nerfed into the ground, they'll begin to realize this game is incredibly boring and start to wander off, wondering what was so special about this game anyway. De-fang the universe, and the game that's left isn't very interesting at all. "The majority" aren't smart enough to realize this is exactly the game they asked for.
It's happened before.
A signature :o
|
voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
414
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 17:14:17 -
[1187] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Dread Red wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: Different scenario, Your T2 fitted omen Vs 2 t1 fitted caracals who happen upon you randomly and decide they want a bit of fun. They're both fairly competent now and have been playing for 3 or so months doing roams and fleet ops, hows your scorch measure upto against there heavies or rapid lights.
EvE isn't fair never has been and never will be, Just because your limited in equipment doesn't mean you are by numbers.
In that scenario if the Omen would decide to stick around he would probably lose - although unless he gets scrammed he would have enough velocity advantage to have a possibility of sticking around long enough to see if he can chew through one of these. In EVE numbers can often be used to trump smaller numbers in higher quality fits. Yes, "fair" 1vs1 rarely happens, but for the free-to-play player to perceive situation as "fair enough" to stick around while he/she decides if he is willing to spend money on the game there must be light in the end of the tunnel. There must be some kind of theoretical possibility, at minimum, to be "as good" as the paying customer in the thing which the F2P player is interested in. Cruisers are not particularly good example in that regard ofc as cruiser specific areas in EVE are practically non-existent. Unlike frigates which have all these nice little locked sandboxes where cruisers and above can not go. I would like to remind one of the phrases which was uttered a while ago when supercapitals got nerfed/changed. It went something like this: "if your best counter is to bring just more of the same thing this thing is unbalanced". If only way for the Alphas to "win" is to outnumber the opposition then I honestly do not understand why would any genuinely fresh player play Alpha any more than 1-2 months at max. Alpha alts of Omegas are going to be there anyway as any sub that runs out will drop into Alpha state by default. Perhaps one way to square this circle would be a rethink of meta turrets and launchers. At the moment, as you have so articulately elucidated, T2 are strictly better in every stat except fitting (and cap use for many turrets). I think it would be may more interesting if meta weapons were comparable - or even superior - to T2 in their specialist stat (eg: range, tracking, RoF, etc), but with the T2 variant being no worse than second best at anything. This would obviously leave T2 as a preferrable general alternative, but would make the meta weapons viable for specific builds - and therefore Alpha-compatible fits also. Secondarily, a rework of faction weapon costs is LONG overdue. They are ludicroucly overpriced because the LP store cost of these items seemingly takes no account of the fact that you need 3-8 weapons per fit, unlike most other items which you need only one of. A straight up change to the LP store BPCs giving 5 runs would go a long way to making faction weapons an actual viable choice, and this again would make things better for Alphas. Sadly as a former CSM member, and a damn fine one, you probably know all too well more often than not CCP doesn't care about making things better for Alphas or even the majority of their paying subscribers, who are in high sec. CCP wants to implement it's vision of how it's game should be played and needs to be dragged kicking and screaming from anything that varies from their fore drawn conclusions. It's a bit too soon to accuse CCP of not caring about Alphas considering that there aren't any alphas. An LP store review wouldn't just benefit hi-sec either.
Decreasing the cost of faction guns and launchers would be a very good move. In previous threads in Features and Ideas that mentioned this I suggested that they could remove the NPC buy orders for navy insignias as they set a floor on the price of these items. That would probably annoy the few people that farm missions like Smash the Supplier and Enemies Abound though. Increasing the runs on the BPCs is a more elegant solution and doesn't mess with the supply and demand for navy insignias. |
Pixel Piracy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 03:27:26 -
[1188] - Quote
Nothing bad ever came from Alpha state clones.
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/alphatudyk_3883.jpg |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5894
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 05:47:03 -
[1189] - Quote
Once (actual) Alpha players hit the servers, the prices for cruiser-and-below meta items are going to drop, simply from the number of people who have heard that you can buy game time by playing, and choosing to farm L2 & L3 missions. They have heaps of time to gather the price of one PLEX.
Being limited to T1 cruisers and below they will most likely avoid L4 missions, sticking to L3, DED, COSMOS instead. Some will head out to farm anomalies, but in general they will boost the supply of modules which are not commonly seen. It might even become cost effective to suicide gank freighters with swarms of frigates.
The limits of the price drops will be the value of a particular activity in terms of ease of repetition, "fun," and ISK/hr. Remembering that the Aloha account is not bound by concerns of making the value of a PLEX every month.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
|
win189
LAWN HC Get Off My Lawn
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:25:22 -
[1190] - Quote
i dont know if any one mentioned this yet but will this be a Toon by toon status or by Eve login status like it is now
Current system in place Pay 1 month subscription and get access to 3 independent toons (one at a time) train On one toon at a time Less you pay for multi Training
|
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Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:56:40 -
[1191] - Quote
win189 wrote:i dont know if any one mentioned this yet but will this be a Toon by toon status or by Eve login status like it is now
Current system in place Pay 1 month subscription and get access to 3 independent toons (one at a time) train On one toon at a time Less you pay for multi Training
If your account is subbed / plex - Omega status If your a new player - alpha If your an expire player - alpha |
Neodell
Caldari Advanced War Technologies
8
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 11:59:26 -
[1192] - Quote
I think this is a good idea. The amount of times I have told people how great Eve is only to see their eyes fog over the second I say you have pay for it, or play long enough to get a plex, they walk away soon after that.
It would be good for high sec markets as there will be more newbies running around, good for corporations as there will be an increase in fresh fighters.
My question to CCP is can someone sign up with a Free clone, train it up to the maximum skill points and then sell it for ISK here on the forums for someone to upgrade it, or continue using for free? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18001
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 12:05:40 -
[1193] - Quote
voetius wrote: Decreasing the cost of faction guns and launchers would be a very good move. In previous threads in Features and Ideas that mentioned this I suggested that they could remove the NPC buy orders for navy insignias as they set a floor on the price of these items. That would probably annoy the few people that farm missions like Smash the Supplier and Enemies Abound though. Increasing the runs on the BPCs is a more elegant solution and doesn't mess with the supply and demand for navy insignias.
It also takes into account the fact that very few people fit just one weapon.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18002
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 12:07:09 -
[1194] - Quote
Neodell wrote:I think this is a good idea. The amount of times I have told people how great Eve is only to see their eyes fog over the second I say you have pay for it, or play long enough to get a plex, they walk away soon after that. It would be good for high sec markets as there will be more newbies running around, good for corporations as there will be an increase in fresh fighters. My question to CCP is can someone sign up with a Free clone, train it up to the maximum skill points and then sell it for ISK here on the forums for someone to upgrade it, or continue using for free?
Why would someone buy what they can get for free themselves? If you don't think that every invested player in EVE isn't going to start at least one (and more likely, one of each race) alpha the day they launch, I don't know what to tell you.
Market tip: have skillbooks on the market in the school systems
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Sarina Aideron
Aideron Corp
28
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 12:36:24 -
[1195] - Quote
Ugh. Im not sure if i like this change. It could revitalize or destroy the game. Its very risky.
I wouldnt be surprised if we see a huge inflation after the change because F2P players are often hardcore grinders. Also the game will be seen as P2W by most new players because paying players have a massive advantage over non-paying players.
(The argument that EVE is not P2W because a noob omega can be defeated by a pro alpha is ridiculous. Of course the experienced player will always defeat the newbie. But what if a pro alpha meets a pro omega? Dont tell me that a max. skilled T2-fit ship doesnt have an advantage over a low skilled T1-fit ship.) |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:21:22 -
[1196] - Quote
Sarina Aideron wrote:Ugh. Im not sure if i like this change. It could revitalize or destroy the game. Its very risky.
I wouldnt be surprised if we see a huge inflation after the change because F2P players are often hardcore grinders. Also the game will be seen as P2W by most new players because paying players have a massive advantage over non-paying players.
(The argument that EVE is not P2W because a noob omega can be defeated by a pro alpha is ridiculous. Of course the experienced player will always defeat the newbie. But what if a pro alpha meets a pro omega? Dont tell me that a max. skilled T2-fit ship doesnt have an advantage over a low skilled T1-fit ship.) EvE is a subscription game that is going to adopt a free play mode instead of limited time trial, If the alpha gets to a point where he wants to join the ranks of Omega's he subscribes - Not pay2win. If it was that it had for instance for a payment of :
20 dollars for 30 days access to 3x damage mods 30 dollars for 15 days access to 2x accelerated leaning
^^ pay2win^^
Read and inwardly digest meanings before spouting doomsday prophecies |
Solecist Project
32952
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:39:36 -
[1197] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Sarina Aideron wrote:Ugh. Im not sure if i like this change. It could revitalize or destroy the game. Its very risky.
I wouldnt be surprised if we see a huge inflation after the change because F2P players are often hardcore grinders. Also the game will be seen as P2W by most new players because paying players have a massive advantage over non-paying players.
(The argument that EVE is not P2W because a noob omega can be defeated by a pro alpha is ridiculous. Of course the experienced player will always defeat the newbie. But what if a pro alpha meets a pro omega? Dont tell me that a max. skilled T2-fit ship doesnt have an advantage over a low skilled T1-fit ship.) EvE is a subscription game that is going to adopt a free play mode instead of limited time trial, If the alpha gets to a point where he wants to join the ranks of Omega's he subscribes - Not pay2win. If it was that it had for instance for a payment of : 20 dollars for 30 days access to 3x damage mods 30 dollars for 15 days access to 2x accelerated leaning ^^ pay2win^^ Read and inwardly digest meanings before spouting doomsday prophecies She's not wrong, though.
You overlooked the part where facts and proper logic has no meaning whatsoever ... ... when you talk to a bunch of morons.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
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Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:50:34 -
[1198] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Sarina Aideron wrote:Ugh. Im not sure if i like this change. It could revitalize or destroy the game. Its very risky.
I wouldnt be surprised if we see a huge inflation after the change because F2P players are often hardcore grinders. Also the game will be seen as P2W by most new players because paying players have a massive advantage over non-paying players.
(The argument that EVE is not P2W because a noob omega can be defeated by a pro alpha is ridiculous. Of course the experienced player will always defeat the newbie. But what if a pro alpha meets a pro omega? Dont tell me that a max. skilled T2-fit ship doesnt have an advantage over a low skilled T1-fit ship.) EvE is a subscription game that is going to adopt a free play mode instead of limited time trial, If the alpha gets to a point where he wants to join the ranks of Omega's he subscribes - Not pay2win. If it was that it had for instance for a payment of : 20 dollars for 30 days access to 3x damage mods 30 dollars for 15 days access to 2x accelerated leaning ^^ pay2win^^ Read and inwardly digest meanings before spouting doomsday prophecies She's not wrong, though. You overlooked the part where facts and proper logic has no meaning whatsoever ... ... when you talk to a bunch of morons. When you read any of the click bait articles that have appeared ( i spent 4 hours trawling through them the other day ) All go into detail that its still a subscription game that has chosen to use a freeplay mode over a limited trial offering and that to make full use of the game you need to subscribe. None i've read claim its going " free 2 play " with no mention that it still is a sub based game. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2771
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 18:02:40 -
[1199] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:EvE is a subscription game that is going to adopt a free play mode instead of limited time trial, If the alpha gets to a point where he wants to join the ranks of Omega's he subscribes - Not pay2win. If it was that it had for instance for a payment of : 20 dollars for 30 days access to 3x damage mods 30 dollars for 15 days access to 2x accelerated leaning ^^ pay2win^^ Read and inwardly digest meanings before spouting doomsday prophecies How about:
15 dollars for 30 days access to t2 weapons and ships (and even more!! Packagedeal!!1!)
Would that qualify as well as pay2win or why not?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18004
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 18:34:11 -
[1200] - Quote
Sarina Aideron wrote:Ugh. Im not sure if i like this change. It could revitalize or destroy the game. Its very risky.
I wouldnt be surprised if we see a huge inflation after the change because F2P players are often hardcore grinders. Also the game will be seen as P2W by most new players because paying players have a massive advantage over non-paying players.
(The argument that EVE is not P2W because a noob omega can be defeated by a pro alpha is ridiculous. Of course the experienced player will always defeat the newbie. But what if a pro alpha meets a pro omega? Dont tell me that a max. skilled T2-fit ship doesnt have an advantage over a low skilled T1-fit ship.)
There's a pretty strict limit to what they'll be able to grind for, which is to say navy (no pirate - they require 2 racial hull skills) faction frigates and cruisers with, at best, faction weapons & drones.
Also they're restricted from L4 agents, aren't they?
OK that means your hypothetical Alpha ultragrinder could use a navy vexor (with Gallente Cruiser IV) with faction medium drones (and Drone Interfacing III max) and he'll be pulling maybe 15-18m/hr out of 0.0 anoms - but he'll be in 0.0
A more likely model for Alpha mass-scale grinding is hauler mission abuse, but LP grinding sinks ISK, it doesn't create it. That might lead to some mudflation, but that's a different issue from inflation. It would be fine if CCP did another bot blitz just before the alpha launch, just to send a message, you know?
Basically if there are enough people actually playing alphas that we're seeing real actual ISK inflation, or even mudflation, then the Alpha experiement will have succeeded beyond CCP's wildest dreams. And also, 0.0 will be filled with people undocked and shooting rats.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18004
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 18:35:36 -
[1201] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:EvE is a subscription game that is going to adopt a free play mode instead of limited time trial, If the alpha gets to a point where he wants to join the ranks of Omega's he subscribes - Not pay2win. If it was that it had for instance for a payment of : 20 dollars for 30 days access to 3x damage mods 30 dollars for 15 days access to 2x accelerated leaning ^^ pay2win^^ Read and inwardly digest meanings before spouting doomsday prophecies How about: 15 dollars for 30 days access to t2 weapons and ships (and even more!! Packagedeal!!1!) Would that qualify as well as pay2win or why not?
For the reason that is literally explained in the post you quoted.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Alexis Red
Red Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 18:53:08 -
[1202] - Quote
Great idea for those who don't play often enough to justify a continuous subscription.
With that said, I made a post in Features and Ideas, that I will also leave here.
Create a New Micro-Plex Shorter term Subscription or Omega State 3 Day pass. Sell them in bulk packs of 10 for $19. and let buyers sell them on the open market, just like Plex 30 day passes are now.
I would buy a pack as it would last me 3 or 4 months of game play, at my random login pace.
Best wishes, for an otherwise decent idea that could grow into something more realistic. |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:11:13 -
[1203] - Quote
Alexis Red wrote:Great idea for those who don't play often enough to justify a continuous subscription.
With that said, I made a post in Features and Ideas, that I will also leave here.
Create a New Micro-Plex Shorter term Subscription or Omega State 3 Day pass. Sell them in bulk packs of 10 for $19. and let buyers sell them on the open market, just like Plex 30 day passes are now.
I would buy a pack as it would last me 3 or 4 months of game play, at my random login pace.
Best wishes, for an otherwise decent idea that could grow into something more realistic.
I quite like that idea..
It's perfect for the serving military guys as well, they can get a couple of days play rather than having to sub for a month when they would have to waste it.
It keeps the skill queue going for a few days here and there as well. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:31:56 -
[1204] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:Alexis Red wrote:Great idea for those who don't play often enough to justify a continuous subscription.
With that said, I made a post in Features and Ideas, that I will also leave here.
Create a New Micro-Plex Shorter term Subscription or Omega State 3 Day pass. Sell them in bulk packs of 10 for $19. and let buyers sell them on the open market, just like Plex 30 day passes are now.
I would buy a pack as it would last me 3 or 4 months of game play, at my random login pace.
Best wishes, for an otherwise decent idea that could grow into something more realistic. I quite like that idea.. It's perfect for the serving military guys as well, they can get a couple of days play rather than having to sub for a month when they would have to waste it. It keeps the skill queue going for a few days here and there as well. That's not a bad idea on paper but what self respecting capsuleer under 50 mill skill points would want to stagger there training queues to match there online playing time.
To get CCP to sell them at that sort of price would be a miracle to, to them functionality and convenience always comes at a cost Look at the subscription to plex price now. To then divide that even further i would expect those microplex passes to be around 25+ dollars for 10. I'd prefer my training unhindered than worry when i could log on. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
935
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 01:36:10 -
[1205] - Quote
I am sure others have voice the industrial ships concern before but I want to reiterate this again.
New Skill that is generic to all races: Industrial Ships
Racial bonuses simply split into two, one being racial bonus the other being Industrial Ships bonus. Industrial Ships bonus will be speed/agility based bonuses and Racial Ships bonus will be the cargo/special hold size increase bonus.
This splitting allows for basic usage by everyone irregardless of race but specialization within racial classes. As tbh for the most part you dont need HUGE specialized holds in any of the ships and to get them you would need to upgrade to Omega status and pay for that increase.
Industrial Ships skill would be a Rank 1 skill and now you can decrease Racial Ship skills to rank 2 or 3 to keep the training time to L5 for both roughly the same as it is now but cross training will be a bit faster, roughly 5-8ish days depending on the attribute mapping and implants.
Then all Industrials, to sit in, would only require Industrial Ships L1 which would be a starting skill. Anyone that already has the Industrial Skills in would get the highest level of Racial Industrial skill they have now in Industrial Ships. So most people wouldnt see a change here at all. T2 Transports would then require Industrial Ships AND Racial Industrial L5 to train. This could also be factored into the Ore Industrial Skill chain as well, Ore Industrial L1 requires Industrial Ships L3 within that chain. This would slow the Noctis training time by about 5-8 hours or so.
Then the final limit would be Industrial Ships skill to L3 or L4 only on Alpha accounts and Racial Industrial skill to L2 or L3.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Fyrwind Aulmais
Podlins R Us Initiative Mercenaries
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 02:24:32 -
[1206] - Quote
Hoping to get some mates to come back to game for short sessions using old accounts as Alphas.. maybe even roam for LOL's but will be mix of Omega and Alpha.
Definitely want an Alpha ore hauler for company when I mine on Omega... constantly mine and ore can and have Miasmo carry ore... wondering if most Alphas will Gallente for range on Industrial ships? Also means I can fleet and use Omega bonuses... my time zone is AUS and often no one mining when I am... so nice and safe but hard to make effective...
I am worried that once my Alpha gets to 5 million SP I only need 500,000 more to start extracting... so one month plex from my Omega should have Alpha account able to covert SP => ISK => PLEX, and sub itself.. or close to it.
All those accounts looking for a PLEX... price rise ?
I do think that some good subscription offers would work... 12 months for price of 9 as a special or similar.... like, when you first subscribe... may work to convert people to Omega.
I am not sure the Alpha is the way to go... if it can be abused it will LOL... already looking at the spreadsheets to see what race can get to maximum SP before moving away from Alpha state...
Would Alpha be able to mind map? With limited skills to train I would strongly say no.... again the grow SP for extracting is easier if you can map to max a bunch of skills to extract.
And ..... yes I know you will all run away... I enjoy Planetary Industry... so once I can start extracting SP for ISK I can juggle to also get PI going on another account.... well 3 characters... 12 planets easy on weekly refit. ( Once I can Plex)
With slots for BPO copying... some sell orders ( well in NULL with no tax may be ok) I can see everyone wanting an Alpha ..
I can only see me ( eventually) flying super caps on one character... but a few extra accounts could be very useful and although I could make a huge carebear empire in SOV safespace I am not sure this is what CCP want... or game needs.
Nice to make a capital production line all using my accounts LOL... but I hope CCP reads some of the thoughts and looks at how to prevent them wrecking anything VERY carefully... I once was an Everquest addict but the game moved to a point it was aweful and when it became possible to run a bunch of accounts I did... I wish I had never gone back LOL.
I really don't want the same to happen to Eve. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2780
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 04:35:32 -
[1207] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:EvE is a subscription game that is going to adopt a free play mode instead of limited time trial, If the alpha gets to a point where he wants to join the ranks of Omega's he subscribes - Not pay2win. If it was that it had for instance for a payment of : 20 dollars for 30 days access to 3x damage mods 30 dollars for 15 days access to 2x accelerated leaning ^^ pay2win^^ Read and inwardly digest meanings before spouting doomsday prophecies How about: 15 dollars for 30 days access to t2 weapons and ships (and even more!! Packagedeal!!1!) Would that qualify as well as pay2win or why not? For the reason that is literally explained in the post you quoted. So it is basically pay2win then, since there is literally no difference between the three suggested examples except maybe from a price point.
I know one of them is special because EVE has a "subscription model" but it is special for you and the current EVE Online player, not the new player expecting a free2play game. And they will expect a free2play game, also it is clearly the intention of CCP to make EVE appear as free2play to get new customers, why else would they even bother to implement this change in the first place?
Do you really expect the new players which will recognise the "15 dollars for 30 days access to t2 weapons" as a massive pay2win paywall to "get it" and just say "ah, it used to be subscription model game, so it's ok and not greedy as ****"?
Also SP injectors, the other big extremely expensive paywall.
I am not here to whine about EVE becoming "pay2win". I am seriously concerned how this will look for a new player expecting a free2play game. And you can write all day "it's not free2play.. blah blah blah.." tell that to the new players who will not read the dev blog or your arguments on the forums and just the headline in some computer game magazine "EVE now free2play".
I seriously doubt this will work. I also seriously doubt CCP is finished. I am almost sure this is another incremental step in changing EVE to a full free2play game. The SP extractor change was the start and this is not the end. They probably roll this changes out one per year to not drive away the current subscriber base.
Also we can write stuff all day here, it's not like CCP will change it's plans because of us. I think they may even be aware of the problem and maybe already have the plan to fix this ready in the drawer, and that is probably what concerns me the most.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Flickinator DIRK
Flick Dirk Holdings
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 04:59:57 -
[1208] - Quote
I don't think this well help EVE to much, I've been playing since 213 and still trying to learn how to pvp. The learning curb is far to complicated for most. My son started playing EVE, but found that you end up in the grind to make isk.
He just started plexying for in game isk to fund his very expensive ship loss due to trying to pvp, because that's what you expect when you join EVE is to pvp. Even when you go looking for a fight its hard to get one now because most are to worried about loosing there ship. He eventually pulled the pin on the game and says its far to boring.
I'm also considering moving on, because I don't think its worth the money you pay for the subscription. I'm also sick of the lag, you need a really good internet speed for this game, something I don't have. There are plenty of games out there on the market that are not so expensive. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 05:07:11 -
[1209] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:EvE is a subscription game that is going to adopt a free play mode instead of limited time trial, If the alpha gets to a point where he wants to join the ranks of Omega's he subscribes - Not pay2win. If it was that it had for instance for a payment of : 20 dollars for 30 days access to 3x damage mods 30 dollars for 15 days access to 2x accelerated leaning ^^ pay2win^^ Read and inwardly digest meanings before spouting doomsday prophecies How about: 15 dollars for 30 days access to t2 weapons and ships (and even more!! Packagedeal!!1!) Would that qualify as well as pay2win or why not? For the reason that is literally explained in the post you quoted. So it is basically pay2win then, since there is literally no difference between the three suggested examples except maybe from a price point. I know one of them is special because EVE has a "subscription model" but it is special for you and the current EVE Online player, not the new player expecting a free2play game. And they will expect a free2play game, also it is clearly the intention of CCP to make EVE appear as free2play to get new customers, why else would they even bother to implement this change in the first place? Do you really expect the new players which will recognise the "15 dollars for 30 days access to t2 weapons" as a massive pay2win paywall to "get it" and just say "ah, it used to be subscription model game, so it's ok and not greedy as ****"? Also SP injectors, the other big extremely expensive paywall. I am not here to whine about EVE becoming "pay2win". I am seriously concerned how this will look for a new player expecting a free2play game. And you can write all day "it's not free2play.. blah blah blah.." tell that to the new players who will not read the dev blog or your arguments on the forums and just the headline in some computer game magazine "EVE now free2play". I seriously doubt this will work. I also seriously doubt CCP is finished. I am almost sure this is another incremental step in changing EVE to a full free2play game. The SP extractor change was the start and this is not the end. They probably roll this changes out one per year to not drive away the current subscriber base. Also we can write stuff all day here, it's not like CCP will change it's plans because of us. I think they may even be aware of the problem and maybe already have the plan to fix this ready in the drawer, and that is probably what concerns me the most.
Every Free2Play game I have tried (admittedly not many as I saw the handwriting on the wall) was "Pay2Win" in the sense that by going to your wallet you:
progressed faster got better damage dealing ammo/weapons/items
In fact, in World of Tanks the various clans or what ever they were called it was required you used gold ammo--i.e. it was expected that you paid to gain entry into the upper echelons of the game.
In other words, these games were:
You decide to pay to gain access to certain aspects of the game....or you don't.
Eve is going the same route. You pay to gain access to T2, cross racial training and even a larger array of T1 ships. Of course, you won't get there any faster though.
Now you are telling me that a player coming into Eve is going to be shocked, shocked that unless they open their wallet they'll be limited....like every other Free2Play game out there?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 05:11:33 -
[1210] - Quote
Flickinator DIRK wrote:I don't think this well help EVE to much, I've been playing since 213 and still trying to learn how to pvp. The learning curb is far to complicated for most. My son started playing EVE, but found that you end up in the grind to make isk.
He just started plexying for in game isk to fund his very expensive ship loss due to trying to pvp, because that's what you expect when you join EVE is to pvp. Even when you go looking for a fight its hard to get one now because most are to worried about loosing there ship. He eventually pulled the pin on the game and says its far to boring.
I'm also considering moving on, because I don't think its worth the money you pay for the subscription. I'm also sick of the lag, you need a really good internet speed for this game, something I don't have. There are plenty of games out there on the market that are not so expensive.
My God...you have been playing for 1,803 years!?!!?!
I think you should petition to have your user name changed the Methuselah.
Good luck with your next game though. This game is not for everyone admittedly, although the trick to making it fun and interesting it to have friends in game--i.e. joining a corp, maybe and alliance and even better a coalition. That way there can be lots of stuff going on most of the time.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Axyl Drake
SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 05:11:56 -
[1211] - Quote
What if...
Instead of a free to play system, you had a pay to play system?
Upfront cost would stop the swarm of alts, but still encourage people to buy into the game. Since there would be no subscription. I'd say 50 - 60 dollars for the entire game.
I've looked at the demographics, IIRC most people don't even sub for long enough to reach that amount.
The microtransactions would help fund the game further, and plex could instead be used to make new accounts. Perhaps you could even trade plex on steam? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 05:15:40 -
[1212] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: Aren't a huge bulk of highsec people actually nullbear alts?
Good question and one nobody can answer except CCP and they almost surely won't.
So maybe we should just skip this one....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 05:23:35 -
[1213] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Once (actual) Alpha players hit the servers, the prices for cruiser-and-below meta items are going to drop, simply from the number of people who have heard that you can buy game time by playing, and choosing to farm L2 & L3 missions. They have heaps of time to gather the price of one PLEX.
So let me see if I follow you....
So Alphas are going to hit the game. Learn you can actually get a sub via PLEX and do so via running L2/3 missions? Right? And then sell all the goodies to get those PLEX...which will in turn drive down the price of these meta items?
Only one problem, to get that much ISK via L2/3s you'll have to run ALOT of them. Second of all, there will be 2 other forces constraining these players.
1. The increased demand for PLEX will force up the price of PLEX. 2. The increase in supply of meta items will drop the price of meta items making it harder to get PLEX.
Markets tend to be self-correcting in the sense that there are profits and losses, or costs and benefits. Each action comes with both a cost and a benefit. So it is not clear that we'll see much movement of either aside from some short run volatility.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2780
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 05:32:04 -
[1214] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Every Free2Play game I have tried (admittedly not many as I saw the handwriting on the wall) was "Pay2Win" in the sense that by going to your wallet you:
progressed faster got better damage dealing ammo/weapons/items
Well, there are free2play titles who will sell only vanity items and no items which change the game play. There are some who only accelerate progress. And there are some who sell gold ammo and those are called pay2win (like t2 weapons behind a paywall). Players recognise the difference. They will not buy all the seriously far fetched arguments about "it some kind of subscription based game thing.. it is basically an extended trial.. why are you looking at me this way?".
In EVE you will basically have all of the above: - permanent vanity items for cash - non-permanent access to gold ammo for cash - SP (skill progress) for cash
What I try to say is basically, it looks seriously greedy for a free2play title! And new players will instantly see that given the price points of the above mentioned "paywalls".
This is my last post about this. There is no point in discussing it anymore I think. CCP will do whatever they want anyway and I am sure I will find some use for the new system as well. Fresh accounts with an alpha clone make greate corp infiltration toons and I always wanted to try that
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Axyl Drake
SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 05:58:23 -
[1215] - Quote
After a thought session, It just occurred to me what a bad system this is if it was implemented like this.
I'm not concerned about what would happen inside the game, rather than the attitude of new players to EvE outside it if this was to go unchecked.
All the skills that are highlighted as useable to a free clone aren't very useful for making isk
In fact, if a solo player wanted to do PVP the time grinding would be absolutely horrible, unless you wanted to do trading but even then skills that would be useful are out of the average player's grasp, and I'm not sure the average player would be inclined to do something such as trading either.
And then, for someone experiencing this game, perhaps buying their first frigate with the small amount of isk they had earned missioning, mining, or granted by a corp member, to go out and be slaughtered by a ship they don't even have access to would set them off like crazy and raise pay to win flags everywhere.
If eve has decent reviews now on steam now, it will NOT after a system as detailed is implemented. Even if it's free, people do not like being locked out from content. we're talking worse than no man's sky review score, you HAVE to make the game worth someone's time or bandwidth. |
Kusum Fawn
Perkone Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 06:05:35 -
[1216] - Quote
Seriously, Lock Alpha characters into FW.
One of the biggest issues that people have in game is thinking of what to do ingame. There are so many different avenues of what to do that many people simply dont know where to go and never move to do things.
Start them off with a goal, a community and a reason to play. Start them off with a definitive enemy to shoot at.
Make new Alpha complexes for them to capture, let them go to the regular ones. Have the Fw store sell ships with fewer open slots and baked in modules/bonuses that make sense for a lower skilled character to use. Make these things cheap for alphas from the LP store.
They should be comparable to the regular t1 frigates we already have. make them reprocess into nothing though.
This can be made to make sense lore wise, As Empire factions decide to use excess cloning capacity to create their own soldiers for the cause and buying plex/subscriptions are you buying your freedom from the empires.
Lock them to one per launcher. the same way that trial characters are. lock safeties to yellow, they can still shoot wartargets in hisec. since the story is that they are part of the Empires military arm they dont get to do the same ganking that paying players get to do. simple.
I am sure there is more im not thinking of.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18007
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 06:22:45 -
[1217] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Every Free2Play game I have tried (admittedly not many as I saw the handwriting on the wall) was "Pay2Win" in the sense that by going to your wallet you:
progressed faster got better damage dealing ammo/weapons/items
Well, there are free2play titles who will sell only vanity items and no items which change the game play. There are some who only accelerate progress. And there are some who sell gold ammo and those are called pay2win (like t2 weapons behind a paywall). Players recognise the difference. They will not buy all the seriously far fetched arguments about "it some kind of subscription based game thing.. it is basically an extended trial.. why are you looking at me this way?". In EVE you will basically have all of the above: - permanent vanity items for cash - non-permanent access to gold ammo for cash - SP (skill progress) for cash What I try to say is basically, it looks seriously greedy for a free2play title! And new players will instantly see that given the price points of the above mentioned "paywalls". This is my last post about this. There is no point in discussing it anymore I think. CCP will do whatever they want anyway and I am sure I will find some use for the new system as well. Fresh accounts with an alpha clone make greate corp infiltration toons and I always wanted to try that
There's no way to reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place. That's not a reason to act unreasonably yourself.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 06:24:13 -
[1218] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Every Free2Play game I have tried (admittedly not many as I saw the handwriting on the wall) was "Pay2Win" in the sense that by going to your wallet you:
progressed faster got better damage dealing ammo/weapons/items
Well, there are free2play titles who will sell only vanity items and no items which change the game play. There are some who only accelerate progress. And there are some who sell gold ammo and those are called pay2win (like t2 weapons behind a paywall). Players recognise the difference. They will not buy all the seriously far fetched arguments about "it some kind of subscription based game thing.. it is basically an extended trial.. why are you looking at me this way?". In EVE you will basically have all of the above: - permanent vanity items for cash - non-permanent access to gold ammo for cash - SP (skill progress) for cash What I try to say is basically, it looks seriously greedy for a free2play title! And new players will instantly see that given the price points of the above mentioned "paywalls". This is my last post about this. There is no point in discussing it anymore I think. CCP will do whatever they want anyway and I am sure I will find some use for the new system as well. Fresh accounts with an alpha clone make greate corp infiltration toons and I always wanted to try that
Sorry, not buying it. World of Tanks and World of Warships are still going strong last I checked and they are absolutely fitting with what you describe.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 06:29:37 -
[1219] - Quote
Axyl Drake wrote: And then, for someone experiencing this game, perhaps buying their first frigate with the small amount of isk they had earned missioning, mining, or granted by a corp member, to go out and be slaughtered by a ship they don't even have access to would set them off like crazy and raise pay to win flags everywhere.
Aside from the pay to win issue...how else to you imagine people dying? Honorable 1v1 fights? Most ships I kill were in horrible lop sided fights were some hapless schlub got caught in our gate camp, by our gang, etc. Even the larger engagements they were when our FCs felt we had the upper hand in terms of fleet composition and capability.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2781
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 06:31:35 -
[1220] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:There's no way to reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place. That's not a reason to act unreasonably yourself. Well I am glad for you that you are not concerned about this change. It's just a bit sad you don't actually address any points and show where I'm wrong. Instead you seam pretty convinced that there is no problem, hence your smartass-comments which contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion. Care to share your view about why you are so convinced new players will not perceive this as greedy pay2win?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
120
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 06:43:54 -
[1221] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Seriously, Lock Alpha characters into FW.
One of the biggest issues that people have in game is thinking of what to do ingame. There are so many different avenues of what to do that many people simply dont know where to go and never move to do things.
Start them off with a goal, a community and a reason to play. Start them off with a definitive enemy to shoot at.
Make new Alpha complexes for them to capture, let them go to the regular ones. Have the Fw store sell ships with fewer open slots and baked in modules/bonuses that make sense for a lower skilled character to use. Make these things cheap for alphas from the LP store.
They should be comparable to the regular t1 frigates we already have. make them reprocess into nothing though.
This can be made to make sense lore wise, As Empire factions decide to use excess cloning capacity to create their own soldiers for the cause and buying plex/subscriptions are you buying your freedom from the empires.
Lock them to one per launcher. the same way that trial characters are. lock safeties to yellow, they can still shoot wartargets in hisec. since the story is that they are part of the Empires military arm they dont get to do the same ganking that paying players get to do. simple.
I am sure there is more im not thinking of.
No.
I think putting new players in a tiny box will not make them want to stay, let alone upgrade to subscription.
"Welcome to EVE you second class citizens, just stay in your place!" Not the warmest intro or very positive new pilot experience. I want the kind of new pilot experience where they are becoming part of the New Eden Cluster, joining fleets, joining corps, and joining roams and ops.
If they are allowed to do that when they are flying side by side with us and see our higher trained skills in action, we can say yes these are the benefits of being a "Patient" subscriber because it took a long time to get our skills trained to the current levels and we are still not done, never done, because you can always learn/ train something new..
I want them to learn about the game, by doing and seeing. If we pigeon hole them into niches that aren't very enticing to paid players I think the whole effort will be wasted.
RvB type events for Alphas and Omegas in equally fit ships should be scheduled routinely by CCP to give them things to do and a sense of community achievement. The Frostline and Serpentis events were outstanding CCP please release something like that at least three times in the first six months of Alpha accounts. Yes a FW event that would give boosts or specialized Racial Alpha ships/bpcs as a reward for participation would be great also. An event large enough to attract most players but spread around all the arenas of the EVE universe from Null & Anoikis, to low and high sec.
Busy pilots are happy pilots.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 07:03:41 -
[1222] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Malcanis wrote:There's no way to reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place. That's not a reason to act unreasonably yourself. Well I am glad for you that you are not concerned about this change. It's just a bit sad you don't actually address any points and show where I'm wrong. Instead you seam pretty convinced that there is no problem, hence your smartass-comments which contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion. Care to share your view about why you are so convinced new players will not perceive this as greedy pay2win?
I know you addressed this to Malcanis...but hey this is an internet forum.
I always see "free to play" as "free to paly" with strings. Those strings were always variable too. That is you never knew if you had to spend $5/month or $50/month on any given month. Depending on the game the out of pocket expenses were variable.
I liked Eve because I knew the out-of-pocket expense was fixed. For $x/month (depending on your subscription choice) you got the whole thing. There was no nickel-and-diming.
Eve will still be that way...mostly. You can get the whole ting for $x/month if you decide to make that transition. Of course, you might not want to wait for training to finish and CCP has given players who want to not wait that time....and can afford it an option there too. Same thing with ISK. And as one player noted, the important thing (and unlike every other F2P/P2W game out there) nothing is created out of thin air.
Some might decry the skill injectors and PLEX as ways for new players to skill up and get ISK. I see it as a way for players who either don't want to wait or don't have the time to by-pass that constraint. Yes it will cost them RL money if they are new, and yes, some players who can't afford it might be upset. But seriously is EVE supposed to be where we address social wrongs? I don't think so.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 07:43:35 -
[1223] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:I know you addressed this to Malcanis...but hey this is an internet forum. I always see "free to play" as "free to paly" with strings. Those strings were always variable too. That is you never knew if you had to spend $5/month or $50/month on any given month. Depending on the game the out of pocket expenses were variable. I liked Eve because I knew the out-of-pocket expense was fixed. For $x/month (depending on your subscription choice) you got the whole thing. There was no nickel-and-diming. Eve will still be that way...mostly. You can get the whole ting for $x/month if you decide to make that transition. Of course, you might not want to wait for training to finish and CCP has given players who want to not wait that time....and can afford it an option there too. Same thing with ISK. And as one player noted, the important thing (and unlike every other F2P/P2W game out there) nothing is created out of thin air. Some might decry the skill injectors and PLEX as ways for new players to skill up and get ISK. I see it as a way for players who either don't want to wait or don't have the time to by-pass that constraint. Yes it will cost them RL money if they are new, and yes, some players who can't afford it might be upset. But seriously is EVE supposed to be where we address social wrongs? I don't think so.
As noted .. the internet forums ;)
Anyway on the subject of pay-to-win vs free-to-play. In my perception the line between these two runs according to following logic. In a "fair" free to play game the free players are theoretically capable of achieving the same level as paying players, just at slower rate. Normally there is also a fair selection of additional cosmetic items available only for cash (like in EVE the ship skins, for example). In a "unfair" free-to-play game (i.e., also called sometimes "gold ammo" games) the paying customers can achieve power levels which are not attainable by just gridning away at the game. If this thing is super tank, or just 5% better gun than anything else available for grinding is not as important as this fundamental aspect itself that there is something available in game that gives a paying customer an in-game edge over non playing one which is not solvable by just grinding away taking the "slow route".
Now - as proposed the EVE version is very clearly pay-to-win. To be entirely honest I have no idea how could eve introduce a free to play feature without it being pay-to-win according to this scenario as if they would just outright remove all limitations from the "free" players then it would probably cut quite significantly into their subscription numbers causing some kind of economic shock.
My argument is that while pay-to-win can most likely not avoided, as this is after all a subscription game going "free to play" there could be some niche where the free player would be fully (or almost fully) competitive with the paying customers. In my opinion this niche could be frigate combat for following reasons: EVE has pretty well fleshed out frigate exclusive content already with areas that do not permit larger hulls for both PvP and PvE (frig wormholes, FW, L4 burners, for example). Lack of access to cloaking would give the "free" palyers still certain disadvantage in some of these (especially WH's) but other than sisters frigate there is no T1 ships that are effective with cloak fitted as far as I remember. In my opinion this would give the Alpha's the reasobaly full EVE experience in that rather limited niche of frigate exclusive content and allow Alphas to perform at the same level with Omegas when flying a T1 frigate - which should not be a particularly unbalancing thing in EVE. Going up against T2 frigates, destroyers and larger hulls the Alphas would be still at significant disadvantage but at least there would be something in EVE that they can do as well as paying customers. As it stands only thing the Alphas would be as good as Omegas are in the current dev-blog is smacking in local ;)
Edit: I would like to add, that even if Alphas would have no restrictions for T1 firgate related combat skills it would take them forever and then some to get to the max levels without subscribing. Even assuming rather modest 25% training speed penalty it would take, at minimum, two years for an fresh Alpha to reach max relevant skills for one race T1 frigates. More than three years if the training speed penalty would be 50%. For these numbers I eyeballed the SP level to be roughly 20 mil SP or a bit more for a max skilled T1 frigate with T2 fit.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5894
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 07:54:09 -
[1224] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Once (actual) Alpha players hit the servers, the prices for cruiser-and-below meta items are going to drop, simply from the number of people who have heard that you can buy game time by playing, and choosing to farm L2 & L3 missions. They have heaps of time to gather the price of one PLEX. So let me see if I follow you.... So Alphas are going to hit the game. Learn you can actually get a sub via PLEX and do so via running L2/3 missions? Right? And then sell all the goodies to get those PLEX...which will in turn drive down the price of these meta items? Only one problem, to get that much ISK via L2/3s you'll have to run ALOT of them. Second of all, there will be 2 other forces constraining these players. 1. The increased demand for PLEX will force up the price of PLEX. 2. The increase in supply of meta items will drop the price of meta items making it harder to get PLEX. Markets tend to be self-correcting in the sense that there are profits and losses, or costs and benefits. Each action comes with both a cost and a benefit. So it is not clear that we'll see much movement of either aside from some short run volatility.
The supply of meta frigate and cruiser modules is low enough that the prices will come down significantly with even a slight increase in supply. Alphas have little in the way of opportunity cost, they can collect funds over a few months to pay for that PLEX. I am not disputing your assertions and indeed I expect both to be true. That does not preclude players trying to play to pay.
The major impact will be affordable high meta level ganking fits.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 08:04:15 -
[1225] - Quote
I haven't read all the arguments about pay 2 win, tbh I got bored after 3 pages of the merry go round
Why do players think this game has suddenly become pay 2 win? The way I'm looking at it is that for the last 4 years since I joined you either do a trial and don't sub, or you do a trial and sub, or just discover the game, sub for a month and decide that way. But at no time over those years has converting from a trial account to a full sub been called pay 2 win.
So what's changed? They still either sub or don't sub after the change, fine some might sub for a month to try for some more skill points, but they'll lose access to them when that month sub runs out, exactly as they do now. Some will probably be ok with what they have for free and be very happy if they can get into a decent corp with a srp when they go on a roam and lose a ship.
But all this negativity....I'm sure any prospective new players reading this and other threads can't wait to join the fun ;/
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 08:08:24 -
[1226] - Quote
Carniflex wrote: As noted .. the internet forums ;)
Anyway on the subject of pay-to-win vs free-to-play. In my perception the line between these two runs according to following logic. In a "fair" free to play game the free players are theoretically capable of achieving the same level as paying players, just at slower rate. Normally there is also a fair selection of additional cosmetic items available only for cash (like in EVE the ship skins, for example). In a "unfair" free-to-play game (i.e., also called sometimes "gold ammo" games) the paying customers can achieve power levels which are not attainable by just gridning away at the game. If this thing is super tank, or just 5% better gun than anything else available for grinding is not as important as this fundamental aspect itself that there is something available in game that gives a paying customer an in-game edge over non playing one which is not solvable by just grinding away taking the "slow route".
Now - as proposed the EVE version is very clearly pay-to-win. To be entirely honest I have no idea how could eve introduce a free to play feature without it being pay-to-win according to this scenario as if they would just outright remove all limitations from the "free" players then it would probably cut quite significantly into their subscription numbers causing some kind of economic shock.
My argument is that while pay-to-win can most likely not avoided, as this is after all a subscription game going "free to play" there could be some niche where the free player would be fully (or almost fully) competitive with the paying customers. In my opinion this niche could be frigate combat for following reasons: EVE has pretty well fleshed out frigate exclusive content already with areas that do not permit larger hulls for both PvP and PvE (frig wormholes, FW, L4 burners, for example). Lack of access to cloaking would give the "free" palyers still certain disadvantage in some of these (especially WH's) but other than sisters frigate there is no T1 ships that are effective with cloak fitted as far as I remember. In my opinion this would give the Alpha's the reasobaly full EVE experience in that rather limited niche of frigate exclusive content and allow Alphas to perform at the same level with Omegas when flying a T1 frigate - which should not be a particularly unbalancing thing in EVE. Going up against T2 frigates, destroyers and larger hulls the Alphas would be still at significant disadvantage but at least there would be something in EVE that they can do as well as paying customers. As it stands only thing the Alphas would be as good as Omegas are in the current dev-blog is smacking in local ;)
The problem with Eve is that you earn SP in real time whether you are logged in or not. So to make it possible for a F2P player to achieve the same levels as a subbed player they'd have to have a slower training time with NO limits whatsoever. Problem is that unless CCP also starts creating **** out of thin air--i.e. you have to buy faction ammo from CCP, or buy SP from CCP vs. other players, that model probably won't work because hey....somebody has to pay the bills.
Also, look at something like World of Tanks, there the game is fairly straight forward with a match maker. There is no such thing in Eve. Part of Eve's allure, which Ima Wreckyou and many other have forgotten is that it is a game about spontaneous order. I find Ima Wreckyou's failure on this part rather disappointing as I consider CODE. an example of such spontaneous order. And what I mean by that is that players doing weird stuff that is not part of the initial package. I have already noted that rental empires, coalitions, OTEC, CODE., B0TLORD, and others are examples of this spontaneous order. Hell, the whole IWantISK vs. Imperium thing is another example. The Forever War between Goons and BoB was yet another example. None of these things depend on T2 modules, ships, skill points or ISK. These were all things that happened between players often times....wait for it...not even in game. IIRC when Haargoth and people in Goonswarm first started talking on voice comms it was outside of the game.
Alphas can be part of that. There are groups in EVE that look at new players, there might even be some new groups that spring up from this new policy that currently do not exist. Can some subset of Alphas from their own in game entity and have an impact on the game? Absolutely. Yes, things might need to be fine tuned. The issue of grinding ISK might be an issue. I see CCP as walking a tightrope between their current paying customers and trying to bring in new blood to keep the game interesting. I see this as something that can be iterated upon as well.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 08:11:22 -
[1227] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Once (actual) Alpha players hit the servers, the prices for cruiser-and-below meta items are going to drop, simply from the number of people who have heard that you can buy game time by playing, and choosing to farm L2 & L3 missions. They have heaps of time to gather the price of one PLEX. So let me see if I follow you.... So Alphas are going to hit the game. Learn you can actually get a sub via PLEX and do so via running L2/3 missions? Right? And then sell all the goodies to get those PLEX...which will in turn drive down the price of these meta items? Only one problem, to get that much ISK via L2/3s you'll have to run ALOT of them. Second of all, there will be 2 other forces constraining these players. 1. The increased demand for PLEX will force up the price of PLEX. 2. The increase in supply of meta items will drop the price of meta items making it harder to get PLEX. Markets tend to be self-correcting in the sense that there are profits and losses, or costs and benefits. Each action comes with both a cost and a benefit. So it is not clear that we'll see much movement of either aside from some short run volatility. The supply of meta frigate and cruiser modules is low enough that the prices will come down significantly with even a slight increase in supply. Alphas have little in the way of opportunity cost, they can collect funds over a few months to pay for that PLEX. I am not disputing your assertions and indeed I expect both to be true. That does not preclude players trying to play to pay. The major impact will be affordable high meta level ganking fits.
Everybody has opportunity cost. Everything you do has an opportunity cost both in and out of game. Every choice entails opportunity cost. So careful with opportunity costs.
The problem I see with your narrative is that it entails both higher demand and higher supply with tend to offset each other, perhaps not perfectly but to some degree at least.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5190
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 08:20:14 -
[1228] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:I haven't read all the arguments about pay 2 win, tbh I got bored after 3 pages of the merry go round Why do players think this game has suddenly become pay 2 win? The way I'm looking at it is that for the last 4 years since I joined you either do a trial and don't sub, or you do a trial and sub, or just discover the game, sub for a month and decide that way. But at no time over those years has converting from a trial account to a full sub been called pay 2 win. So what's changed? They still either sub or don't sub after the change, fine some might sub for a month to try for some more skill points, but they'll lose access to them when that month sub runs out, exactly as they do now. Some will probably be ok with what they have for free and be very happy if they can get into a decent corp with a srp when they go on a roam and lose a ship. But all this negativity....I'm sure any prospective new players reading this and other threads can't wait to join the fun ;/
There is a contingent in this discussion that are worried that the game will be perceived as Pay-to-Win by the new players coming in under the supposed Free-to-Play mode.
Their argument is that it is not really Free-to-Play, but more of an unlimited trial period. You can play as long as you want without opening your wallet, but there are hard constraints on what ships and skills you can use in game if you opt for this option. And to move beyond these limitations...get out the credit card.
There is some validity to what they are saying, but then again EVE is not like most other games that are Free-to-Play in that they lack the spontaneous order/emergence aspect that comes with EVE.
My example has been World of Tanks with is both Free-to-Play and Pay-to-Win also does not allow for much Spontaneous Order either. The matches are controlled by a Match Maker and there is a fixed number of players on each side. So things like spying, corp thefts, etc. are largely not an issue.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 08:47:20 -
[1229] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Ginger Naari wrote:I haven't read all the arguments about pay 2 win, tbh I got bored after 3 pages of the merry go round Why do players think this game has suddenly become pay 2 win? The way I'm looking at it is that for the last 4 years since I joined you either do a trial and don't sub, or you do a trial and sub, or just discover the game, sub for a month and decide that way. But at no time over those years has converting from a trial account to a full sub been called pay 2 win. So what's changed? They still either sub or don't sub after the change, fine some might sub for a month to try for some more skill points, but they'll lose access to them when that month sub runs out, exactly as they do now. Some will probably be ok with what they have for free and be very happy if they can get into a decent corp with a srp when they go on a roam and lose a ship. But all this negativity....I'm sure any prospective new players reading this and other threads can't wait to join the fun ;/ There is a contingent in this discussion that are worried that the game will be perceived as Pay-to-Win by the new players coming in under the supposed Free-to-Play mode. Their argument is that it is not really Free-to-Play, but more of an unlimited trial period. You can play as long as you want without opening your wallet, but there are hard constraints on what ships and skills you can use in game if you opt for this option. And to move beyond these limitations...get out the credit card. There is some validity to what they are saying, but then again EVE is not like most other games that are Free-to-Play in that they lack the spontaneous order/emergence aspect that comes with EVE. My example has been World of Tanks with is both Free-to-Play and Pay-to-Win also does not allow for much Spontaneous Order either. The matches are controlled by a Match Maker and there is a fixed number of players on each side. So things like spying, corp thefts, etc. are largely not an issue.
Yes, I get what you're saying.. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
376
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 08:57:44 -
[1230] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: The problem with Eve is that you earn SP in real time whether you are logged in or not. So to make it possible for a F2P player to achieve the same levels as a subbed player they'd have to have a slower training time with NO limits whatsoever. Problem is that unless CCP also starts creating **** out of thin air--i.e. you have to buy faction ammo from CCP, or buy SP from CCP vs. other players, that model probably won't work because hey....somebody has to pay the bills.
Also, look at something like World of Tanks, there the game is fairly straight forward with a match maker. There is no such thing in Eve. Part of Eve's allure, which Ima Wreckyou and many other have forgotten is that it is a game about spontaneous order. I find Ima Wreckyou's failure on this part rather disappointing as I consider CODE. an example of such spontaneous order. And what I mean by that is that players doing weird stuff that is not part of the initial package. I have already noted that rental empires, coalitions, OTEC, CODE., B0TLORD, and others are examples of this spontaneous order. Hell, the whole IWantISK vs. Imperium thing is another example. The Forever War between Goons and BoB was yet another example. None of these things depend on T2 modules, ships, skill points or ISK. These were all things that happened between players often times....wait for it...not even in game. IIRC when Haargoth and people in Goonswarm first started talking on voice comms it was outside of the game.
Alphas can be part of that. There are groups in EVE that look at new players, there might even be some new groups that spring up from this new policy that currently do not exist. Can some subset of Alphas from their own in game entity and have an impact on the game? Absolutely. Yes, things might need to be fine tuned. The issue of grinding ISK might be an issue. I see CCP as walking a tightrope between their current paying customers and trying to bring in new blood to keep the game interesting. I see this as something that can be iterated upon as well.
As it stands in the devblog the Alphas will have both reduced training rate (for the specific set of allowed skills) and relatively low cap on usable SP.
As far as profitability of Alphas goes - I would argue that CCP could probably wring a little more money out of the unlimited frigate skills Alpha than what they have currently on the table (very limited skillset, up to cruiser size). An Alpha who is enjoy flying something is more likely to spend real money on comsetics of said ship or even subbing to get access to the larger toys.
While social and self organizing aspects are indeed fully accessible to Alphas even if all they could fly would be the noobships there would be no role for them in game unless one counts talking in local and chat channels as a role. The question is what would an Alpha do if he has no friends online to do stuff? If he can fly a frigate well enough he could go have a go on the frigate specific content. Based on the current devblog skillset Alphas would have to outnumber Omegas at minimum 3 to 2 to have a possibility of winning an engagement assuming both sides are competent.
And yeah theoretically all kinds of nice things are accessible to Alphas and in principle they could just bring more of themselves to overcome the extremely limited skillset handicap. But I honestly do believe that as it is currently proposed most potential players would just take a look and not bother with it. I myself, for example, are not willing to invest my time into a game that I perceive as unfair at fundamental level. Now that does not mean I would quit over it - ofc not - I'm far too invested in EVE to quit over something like this as I'm already in. But if anyone would ask me if the game is worth trying I would tell them that not unless you sub if the Alphas are implemented as they are currently in the devblog. Now if there would be something that Alphas could do as well as I can sitting on 225 mil SP the answer would be different - I would tell them that yeah there is "this thing" that you can do as well as I can without paying and if you like more then you would need to sub.
Do not get me wrong - I'm not some kind of "more SP elitist" - I'm fully aware that at the end of the day success in EVE boils down to personal attitude and lower SP pilot can kill higher SP pilot. My issue is more of a philosophical kind. For me to consider a game fair and worth the time investment I must have at least theoretical possibility of achieving the same as other players by "getting good" at the game. I am fully aware that as EVE is currently that is kind of not possible across the whole EVE, but I would say that there should be at least some "niche" where this is possible.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
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Rogasus Hakuli
Old Sarum Salvage and Resource Processing Ltd
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 09:04:16 -
[1231] - Quote
I foresee lots of Omega pilots with loads of Alpha alts (hate multiboxers) and also loads of mining alts simply stripping the belts.n++
I have seen quite a few games destroyed by similar marketing moves and have therefore decided to call it a day with this game as I don't want to watch this one dwindle whilst I am playing it. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 09:51:09 -
[1232] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:As it stands in the devblog the Alphas will have both reduced training rate (for the specific set of allowed skills) and relatively low cap on usable SP.
As far as profitability of Alphas goes - I would argue that CCP could probably wring a little more money out of the unlimited frigate skills Alpha than what they have currently on the table (very limited skillset, up to cruiser size). An Alpha who is enjoy flying something is more likely to spend real money on comsetics of said ship or even subbing to get access to the larger toys.
While social and self organizing aspects are indeed fully accessible to Alphas even if all they could fly would be the noobships there would be no role for them in game unless one counts talking in local and chat channels as a role. The question is what would an Alpha do if he has no friends online to do stuff? If he can fly a frigate well enough he could go have a go on the frigate specific content. Based on the current devblog skillset Alphas would have to outnumber Omegas at minimum 3 to 2 to have a possibility of winning an engagement assuming both sides are competent.
And yeah theoretically all kinds of nice things are accessible to Alphas and in principle they could just bring more of themselves to overcome the extremely limited skillset handicap. But I honestly do believe that as it is currently proposed most potential players would just take a look and not bother with it. I myself, for example, are not willing to invest my time into a game that I perceive as unfair at fundamental level. Now that does not mean I would quit over it - ofc not - I'm far too invested in EVE to quit over something like this as I'm already in. But if anyone would ask me if the game is worth trying I would tell them that not unless you sub if the Alphas are implemented as they are currently in the devblog. Now if there would be something that Alphas could do as well as I can sitting on 225 mil SP the answer would be different - I would tell them that yeah there is "this thing" that you can do as well as I can without paying and if you like more then you would need to sub.
Do not get me wrong - I'm not some kind of "more SP elitist" - I'm fully aware that at the end of the day success in EVE boils down to personal attitude and lower SP pilot can kill higher SP pilot. My issue is more of a philosophical kind. For me to consider a game fair and worth the time investment I must have at least theoretical possibility of achieving the same as other players by "getting good" at the game. I am fully aware that as EVE is currently that is kind of not possible across the whole EVE, but I would say that there should be at least some "niche" where this is possible.
You are a SP elitist, Your defining that a free play mode character is incapable of enjoying the EvE experience because he is neutered in every area. I've asked you twice now in what way is the old trial with a possible 1 million sp's and 14 to 21 days play time some how changed that giving you unlimited time and 5 million skillpoints has degraded your game play. What can you train now in 3 weeks that makes limited trial a better option than the Alpha - in this i mean the whole package hull / weapon system / core / shield or armour
Yes your limited to cruisers but what use would ploughing all your 21 days of trial time into training a battleship get you apart from a quick painful end probably in either a lvl3 mission or to some gank. Now your scope is narrowed and skillpoints predefined into area's that actually benefit the ships you fly, the weapons you use and the modules to suit those. With having time on your side to actually use that specific kit instead of rushing for the biggest within a month and inevitably dying the experience should be far more rewarding. If it is that they get the itch or they want to climb the ladder they sub.
This nonsense of roams needing T2 kit is laughable, they have the tut's and all that entails, the epic arc - Missions upto level three's distribution / security / mining granted the mining profession itself is limited but understandably why and exploration. You have the dedicated people at places like EvE-Uni and goons who will make it there mission to hoover new players up when launched. When all said and done its an extended trial, yes you have the option to stay alpha but there is more than enough to keep a genuine new player interested to a point where they say not for me or hell yes im in. |
Rogasus Hakuli
Old Sarum Salvage and Resource Processing Ltd
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 10:56:19 -
[1233] - Quote
Hey why don't CCP go all the way with this and offer Pre-fitted ships (like World of Tanks) for -ú35 a pop with all the basic skills required.
Just kidding........or am I? |
Naomi Felclaw
Clan Wolf Hunters
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 11:36:49 -
[1234] - Quote
This reminds me of how Runescape does their player system. Free players get limited skill and item access, members get unlimited. Perfectly fine because lets face it, for this game 14 days is nowhere near enough to really decide if you wanna commit to it. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1885
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 11:44:37 -
[1235] - Quote
Uba Stij wrote:Titus Cole Dooley wrote:Sad thing is no matter how much people don't like this change its still going to happen. we would have to have a real burn Jita 2 and then unsub like 10k players. never know maybe its just a cycle we will have to go through to keep the game going the way we want it. There is far more positive/optimistic comments and views on this than you're willing to admit. Mostly because those people actually read the dev blog (reading comprehension is hard for you apparently), and used common sense. All of these 'comments and views' can be summarized by one: 'F2P will bring new players and it will be great'. So yeah. This is 'common sense' of level 'Earth is flat because else we would fall of it'.
Not really exciting 'common sense' to be honest.
On the other side we have concerns of possible exploits, support level, NPE, etc....
Choose your side.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
378
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 12:55:26 -
[1236] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote: You are a SP elitist, Your defining that a free play mode character is incapable of enjoying the EvE experience because he is neutered in every area. I've asked you twice now in what way is the old trial with a possible 1 million sp's and 14 to 21 days play time some how changed that giving you unlimited time and 5 million skillpoints has degraded your game play. What can you train now in 3 weeks that makes limited trial a better option than the Alpha - in this i mean the whole package hull / weapon system / core / shield or armour
Yes your limited to cruisers but what use would ploughing all your 21 days of trial time into training a battleship get you apart from a quick painful end probably in either a lvl3 mission or to some gank. Now your scope is narrowed and skillpoints predefined into area's that actually benefit the ships you fly, the weapons you use and the modules to suit those. With having time on your side to actually use that specific kit instead of rushing for the biggest within a month and inevitably dying the experience should be far more rewarding. If it is that they get the itch or they want to climb the ladder they sub.
This nonsense of roams needing T2 kit is laughable, they have the tut's and all that entails, the epic arc - Missions upto level three's distribution / security / mining granted the mining profession itself is limited but understandably why and exploration. You have the dedicated people at places like EvE-Uni and goons who will make it there mission to hoover new players up when launched. When all said and done its an extended trial, yes you have the option to stay alpha but there is more than enough to keep a genuine new player interested to a point where they say not for me or hell yes im in.
I have tried my best at least 5 times in this thread to explain my point of view. Do not know - perhaps I am not elegant enough with my words as English is not my first language so my point gets lost in translation?
In my mind I have not claimed once that this thing will degrade my game-play somehow. My point - which I have been trying to express as clearly as I am capable of - has been about this new Alpha clone and explaining why do I think it would be better approach to give this new Alpha full access to frigate size hulls without restrictions as opposed to giving him/her up to cruiser hulls with significant restrictions. Yes, I am aware that this new Alpha clone is somewhat similar to the current trial account. while the current trial is limited by the time it has but has no max level restrictions the Alpha has no time limit but has fairly restrictive level caps.
What would be the max SP of an "unlimited" frigate pilot? I am getting approx 75 mil SP if I assume every single skill that I think could be somehow useful for flying a T1 frigate (minus e-war other than point, cyno, cloak). Taking approx 50% training speed and close to optimal training plan that would mean that it would take the unrestricted Alpha a bit over 8 years to max itself out. The numbers I'm eyeballing are following:
Armor4,86 mil Drones12,54 mil Electronic Systems0,8 mil Engineering6,54 mil Gunnery9,86 mil Missiles7,65 mil Navigation4,1 mil Rigging7,42 mil Scanning7,2 mil Shields5,55 mil Spaceship command2,8 mil Targeting3,8 mil
Total 73,14 mil SP
All races frigates + mining frigates skills at 5 + all relevant skills for combat and mining (but not refining nor mining crystals). Throw in there few prerequisites like Science 4, etc which I missed and you are more or less at 75 mil SP.
Now if a free account is willing to stick around 8 years in EVE it does not make me grumpy if he is sitting at 75 mil SP. for that duration he has been content for all the paying (and non paying) customers making EVE richer for everyone. While all the time being tempted to either grab a skill injector off the market (which means that CCP gets a cut as skill extraction currently works) or make a sub to get the skills done faster and get access to larger toys.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 13:15:45 -
[1237] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: You are a SP elitist, Your defining that a free play mode character is incapable of enjoying the EvE experience because he is neutered in every area. I've asked you twice now in what way is the old trial with a possible 1 million sp's and 14 to 21 days play time some how changed that giving you unlimited time and 5 million skillpoints has degraded your game play. What can you train now in 3 weeks that makes limited trial a better option than the Alpha - in this i mean the whole package hull / weapon system / core / shield or armour
Yes your limited to cruisers but what use would ploughing all your 21 days of trial time into training a battleship get you apart from a quick painful end probably in either a lvl3 mission or to some gank. Now your scope is narrowed and skillpoints predefined into area's that actually benefit the ships you fly, the weapons you use and the modules to suit those. With having time on your side to actually use that specific kit instead of rushing for the biggest within a month and inevitably dying the experience should be far more rewarding. If it is that they get the itch or they want to climb the ladder they sub.
This nonsense of roams needing T2 kit is laughable, they have the tut's and all that entails, the epic arc - Missions upto level three's distribution / security / mining granted the mining profession itself is limited but understandably why and exploration. You have the dedicated people at places like EvE-Uni and goons who will make it there mission to hoover new players up when launched. When all said and done its an extended trial, yes you have the option to stay alpha but there is more than enough to keep a genuine new player interested to a point where they say not for me or hell yes im in.
I have tried my best at least 5 times in this thread to explain my point of view. Do not know - perhaps I am not elegant enough with my words as English is not my first language so my point gets lost in translation? In my mind I have not claimed once that this thing will degrade my game-play somehow. My point - which I have been trying to express as clearly as I am capable of - has been about this new Alpha clone and explaining why do I think it would be better approach to give this new Alpha full access to frigate size hulls without restrictions as opposed to giving him/her up to cruiser hulls with significant restrictions. Yes, I am aware that this new Alpha clone is somewhat similar to the current trial account. while the current trial is limited by the time it has but has no max level restrictions the Alpha has no time limit but has fairly restrictive level caps. What would be the max SP of an "unlimited" frigate pilot? I am getting approx 75 mil SP if I assume every single skill that I think could be somehow useful for flying a T1 frigate (minus e-war other than point, cyno, cloak). Taking approx 50% training speed and close to optimal training plan that would mean that it would take the unrestricted Alpha a bit over 8 years to max itself out. The numbers I'm eyeballing are following: Armor4,86 mil Drones12,54 mil Electronic Systems0,8 mil Engineering6,54 mil Gunnery9,86 mil Missiles7,65 mil Navigation4,1 mil Rigging7,42 mil Scanning7,2 mil Shields5,55 mil Spaceship command2,8 mil Targeting3,8 mil Total 73,14 mil SP All races frigates + mining frigates skills at 5 + all relevant skills for combat and mining (but not refining nor mining crystals). Throw in there few prerequisites like Science 4, etc which I missed and you are more or less at 75 mil SP. Now if a free account is willing to stick around 8 years in EVE it does not make me grumpy if he is sitting at 75 mil SP. for that duration he has been content for all the paying (and non paying) customers making EVE richer for everyone. While all the time being tempted to either grab a skill injector off the market (which means that CCP gets a cut as skill extraction currently works) or make a sub to get the skills done faster and get access to larger toys. The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
378
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 13:25:15 -
[1238] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
Why would an existing player have to push the fresh Alpha alt up to the max levels? All he would have to do would be unsubbing and bulk of the SP relevant to flying sub-capitals would be still accessible on his/her current account. He/she would be just limited to flying T1 frigate hulls and basically no access to industry/PI.
If an existing subscriber wants to go for that route I would have no problem with that and I believe said former subscriber would meet the limits of what a T1 frigate can do even with max skills to be tempted to re-subscribe on a regular basis, assuming he/she is undocking and doing stuff in space. If not then it would not matter what ships, if any at all, he is or is not capable of flying or how well.
Given the nature of EVE I do not think it can be avoided that a person who has been around longer has more skills / knowledge / assets and has an advantage over a fresh member of the community. Reduced training speed / assets gaining is de facto standard in free to play games for free accounts - even in games that are considered generally fair and well balanced from the viewpoint of micro transactions.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 13:43:04 -
[1239] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
Why would an existing player have to push the fresh Alpha alt up to the max levels? All he would have to do would be unsubbing and bulk of the SP relevant to flying sub-capitals would be still accessible on his/her current account. He/she would be just limited to flying T1 frigate hulls and basically no access to industry/PI. If an existing subscriber wants to go for that route I would have no problem with that and I believe said former subscriber would meet the limits of what a T1 frigate can do even with max skills to be tempted to re-subscribe on a regular basis, assuming he/she is undocking and doing stuff in space. If not then it would not matter what ships, if any at all, he is or is not capable of flying or how well. Given the nature of EVE I do not think it can be avoided that a person who has been around longer has more skills / knowledge / assets and has an advantage over a fresh member of the community. Reduced training speed / assets gaining is de facto standard in free to play games for free accounts - even in games that are considered generally fair and well balanced from the viewpoint of micro transactions. I have no clue what you are trying to say here at all, You said your idea of an Alpha was to be able to have access to all those skills listed and all frigate hulls, You wouldnt need to sub on your version of alpha you could just pre load with injectors even if it was only 20 mill skill points and have a very competent pilot - How do new players to the game cope with that or even get there head around the fact that it's not a pay2win scenario. Nothing about that is equal or fair and if that was possible i dont even see the need for a sub to be honest as i can run level 4's in an ishkur, granted its slower but its fun and makes a change from the norm.
It's about balancing a freeplay mode to give enough freedom to try the game but also to further advance you would need a subscription |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 14:12:33 -
[1240] - Quote
I take that back i understand what you are saying making it worse as in some cases now people could just unsub there accounts as they could have as much fun with your version of max skilled alpha's as a full account.
The skill injected alpha could wreak havoc for people and still be seen as nothing more than a pay2win toon, doing nothing for the credibility of the game.
If the alpha is launched as is currently, it doesnt assist a current player anymore than a new player barring the actual players experience and skill. It cannot be accelerated with injectors - all training is equal, it has access to all the same ship classes and skill's barring race specific items. Its locked at the same skill points and never expires.
To claim that you would not recommend a game because it's freeplay mode can't do even one thing equally as good as your current toon of 225 mill skill points is ..... i would say joke but i don't even think that covers it really . |
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 14:23:22 -
[1241] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote: I have no clue what you are trying to say here at all, You said your idea of an Alpha was to be able to have access to all those skills listed and all frigate hulls, You wouldnt need to sub on your version of alpha you could just pre load with injectors even if it was only 20 mill skill points and have a very competent pilot - How do new players to the game cope with that or even get there head around the fact that it's not a pay2win scenario. Nothing about that is equal or fair and if that was possible i dont even see the need for a sub to be honest as i can run level 4's in an ishkur( i know its T2 but you would still get to use a worm in your freeplay with uber skilled drones,missiles and shields), granted its slower but its fun and makes a change from the norm.
It's about balancing a freeplay mode to give enough freedom to try the game but also to further advance you would need a subscription
Yes. Skill injectors "hurt" old pilots more than fresh ones as they, in principle, set max price ceiling for ultra high SP pilots if one decides to put his character on bazaar. In essence a skill injector is the standard free-to-play shortcut where you change your hard currency for something that would take otherwise a significant amount of time in-game. That means, that one can hit the max SP cap for a nice pile of cash (or ISK) inctead of spending approx 27 years of training all these skills the conventional way in-game.
And yes - in my utopian version Alpha would be free to do so without having to sub for it. This is fine because CCP gets a cut every time an injector is created as someone, somewhere has spend some dollars/euros on creating that skill injector.
New gamers cope as they have for the entire duration of the EVE. They train up and eventually they get to the target level in the case of Alpha at half speed. Or they spend some money to take a shortcut. It is not a pay to win as long as anyone can reach the same level as the ones who took the shortcut. this is a standard notation in free to play games - so I really do not how I could word it differently to make it any clearer.
I do agree fully with the last sentence about having to balance free to play with the sub so that enough people would be tempted to sub.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 14:26:27 -
[1242] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:I take that back i understand what you are saying making it worse as in some cases now people could just unsub there accounts as they could have as much fun with your version of max skilled alpha's as a full account.
The skill injected alpha could wreak havoc for people and still be seen as nothing more than a pay2win toon, doing nothing for the credibility of the game.
If the alpha is launched as is currently, it doesnt assist a current player anymore than a new player barring the actual players experience and skill. It cannot be accelerated with injectors - all training is equal, it has access to all the same ship classes and skill's barring race specific items. Its locked at the same skill points and never expires.
To claim that you would not recommend a game because it's freeplay mode can't do even one thing equally as good as your current toon of 225 mill skill points is ..... i would say joke but i don't even think that covers it really .
OK - I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there.
As far as Injectors on Alphas go - in based on the current devblog Alphas can use the injectors in the currently proposed version just fine. They will just have only access to the listed skill levels at max, even if their total SP amounts goes beyond Alpha levels when using injectors.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 14:33:35 -
[1243] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:I take that back i understand what you are saying making it worse as in some cases now people could just unsub there accounts as they could have as much fun with your version of max skilled alpha's as a full account.
The skill injected alpha could wreak havoc for people and still be seen as nothing more than a pay2win toon, doing nothing for the credibility of the game.
If the alpha is launched as is currently, it doesnt assist a current player anymore than a new player barring the actual players experience and skill. It cannot be accelerated with injectors - all training is equal, it has access to all the same ship classes and skill's barring race specific items. Its locked at the same skill points and never expires.
To claim that you would not recommend a game because it's freeplay mode can't do even one thing equally as good as your current toon of 225 mill skill points is ..... i would say joke but i don't even think that covers it really . OK - I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there. As far as Injectors on Alphas go - in based on the current devblog Alphas can use the injectors in the currently proposed version just fine. They will just have only access to the listed skill levels at max, even if their total SP amounts goes beyond Alpha levels when using injectors. I was referring to a 75 mill version alpha wreaking havoc not a capped 5 mill, if someone wanted to waste 10 injectors doing that that's there look out i hadnt seen you could waste them on the CCP alpha, thats a shame still trying to squeeze the cash |
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 15:04:57 -
[1244] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
And how is this different from the current situation? Any current player who has the ISK to push a new char to that amount of SP also has enough ISK and/or is generating enough ISK to plex that account as well. On top of that, depending on how the new character is going to be used, it would not even require a seperate account. As long as you don-¦t need to log in the new char at the same time as other chars, a free slot on an existing account is all you need.
Castrating new players, does not change anything for current players at all.
The only situation where your argument would have any merit is in a discussion against skill injectors.
Do not interpret this wrong though, I don-¦t care either way, I just think your argument is misplaced here.
Just to mention the thing I am concerned about:
The question only question I have is, how ccp will handle a possible large influx of players in terms of the "Rookie Help channel". It-¦s hard enough to follow the chat as it is sometimes and if the number of people who end up in one and the same channel goes up a lot things might get really messy there. On top of the amount of serious questions going through the roof the amount of trolls surely will rise as well. Does CCP have the manpower to properly police the channel, or will the few experienced people who spend their time in there be confronted with a huge amount of trolls, ISK-sellers and all kinds of other off-topic conversations that make the job of the helpers almost impossible?
And no.... blocking people in that channel is not a solution for the helpers, because then you have no chance of actually catching and correcting it when people are giving bad advise on purpose and troll the **** out of new players. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 15:37:39 -
[1245] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
And how is this different from the current situation? Any current player who has the ISK to push a new char to that amount of SP also has enough ISK and/or is generating enough ISK to plex that account as well. On top of that, depending on how the new character is going to be used, it would not even require a seperate account. As long as you don-¦t need to log in the new char at the same time as other chars, a free slot on an existing account is all you need. Castrating new players, does not change anything for current players at all. The only situation where your argument would have any merit is in a discussion against skill injectors. Do not interpret this wrong though, I don-¦t care either way, I just think your argument is misplaced here. Just to mention the thing I am concerned about: The question only question I have is, how ccp will handle a possible large influx of players in terms of the "Rookie Help channel". It-¦s hard enough to follow the chat as it is sometimes and if the number of people who end up in one and the same channel goes up a lot things might get really messy there. On top of the amount of serious questions going through the roof the amount of trolls surely will rise as well. Does CCP have the manpower to properly police the channel, or will the few experienced people who spend their time in there be confronted with a huge amount of trolls, ISK-sellers and all kinds of other off-topic conversations that make the job of the helpers almost impossible? And no.... blocking people in that channel is not a solution for the helpers, because then you have no chance of actually catching and correcting it when people are giving bad advise on purpose and troll the **** out of new players. If you read the whole thing through Carniflex was saying that the alpha state should be all T1 frigates with access to 70 odd mill skill points worth of skills and i was saying how can you call it balanced or fair to someone completely new bar them opening there wallets. It doesnt matter what happens in the current november release of the alpha's as theyre all limited to 5 mill and racial ships and skill sets. |
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 15:47:48 -
[1246] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
And how is this different from the current situation? Any current player who has the ISK to push a new char to that amount of SP also has enough ISK and/or is generating enough ISK to plex that account as well. On top of that, depending on how the new character is going to be used, it would not even require a seperate account. As long as you don-¦t need to log in the new char at the same time as other chars, a free slot on an existing account is all you need. Castrating new players, does not change anything for current players at all. The only situation where your argument would have any merit is in a discussion against skill injectors. Do not interpret this wrong though, I don-¦t care either way, I just think your argument is misplaced here. Just to mention the thing I am concerned about: The question only question I have is, how ccp will handle a possible large influx of players in terms of the "Rookie Help channel". It-¦s hard enough to follow the chat as it is sometimes and if the number of people who end up in one and the same channel goes up a lot things might get really messy there. On top of the amount of serious questions going through the roof the amount of trolls surely will rise as well. Does CCP have the manpower to properly police the channel, or will the few experienced people who spend their time in there be confronted with a huge amount of trolls, ISK-sellers and all kinds of other off-topic conversations that make the job of the helpers almost impossible? And no.... blocking people in that channel is not a solution for the helpers, because then you have no chance of actually catching and correcting it when people are giving bad advise on purpose and troll the **** out of new players. If you read the whole thing through Carniflex was saying that the alpha state should be all T1 frigates with access to 70 odd mill skill points worth of skills and i was saying how can you call it balanced or fair to someone completely new bar them opening there wallets. It doesnt matter what happens in the current november release of the alpha's as theyre all limited to 5 mill and racial ships and skill sets.
I did read the whole thing and I am asking you again: How is that any different from the current situation?
No matter if you limit alphas as much as they are limited in the current design, if you have the ISK or RL $ to get enough injectors you have enough ISK or $ to upgrade to omega under the new system as well (if you are not creating the new char on an account that has omega status anyway).
The problem in that whole scenario are the injectors and not giving alphas more room to develope their chars.
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1885
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 16:01:37 -
[1247] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:So...you place a bounty on me, right? What is to stop me (the player) from having my alt scan my character's ship, shoot me and collect the bounty? What about system where bounty owner has to manually approve each payment? Let's say i put bounty on someone. This sets flag (visible to anyone). Then when somebody presses the button and kills the target i get notification with killmail. Then i enter amount and press button and send ISK or don't. And let's say people can see history of bounty contracts created by me (it can be made anonymous but linked to the character) with information about every bounty contract offered and killmails paid or not.
This allows me to check whether killmail looks legit or not. At least i can try to detect usage of alt.
This gives possible contractor to check whether previous bounties were paid or not and decide if kill worth effort.
Additionally this gives some protection from overinflated module/ship prices and gives overall control over the system to players. I see killmail value but i always can check real market price and set bounty accordingly. And if i'm greedy then in future i can find none of my contracts taken.
Thoughts?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1885
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 16:10:11 -
[1248] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Egsise wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Egsise wrote:That 20mil sp character is free to play right now(no pve, no grinding, no need to make any isk) Alpha clone is free to play but limited to 5mil sp and T1.
Think about it which is more fun to play. That Alpha is completely free, cost the owner nothing at all, If the alpha changed to omega trained the extact same skills as your 20 mill toon then did the same and started recycling, his will of been even cheaper to create as he get 5 mill free. Just because you have it now means what exactly, everyone starts from scratch unless you plexed your toon from the bazaar, which guess what, you can do the exact same thing now too and have a 20m toon. At the end of the day you trained your 20 mill from scratch, they only have to train from 5 to 20 but if you find it amusing so be it. For a old player that returns the alpha clone has no value as you can just play with omega clone for free by selling sp. The value is that they can log in and **** around and maybe establish (or re-establish) in-game social contacts without burning through those assets. "those assets" == SP you can train and sell.
Omega: SP gets accumulated and can be sold. Currently it gives free2play but even if it won't price will be heavily lowered. Alpha: most possible no SP will accumulate (we are talking about old player here).
In both cases you don't get new SP but in Omega clone you can use your stuff while for Alpha you most possible will need to buy new 'limited' ship/fit.
Seriously: for old player Alpha is too limiting and inconvenient. Not sure if it will be used at all.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Jasper Sinclair
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
39
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 16:10:22 -
[1249] - Quote
After constructing frigate fits for every frigate suitable for alpha clones I find that the skill limitations you have imposed are reasonable. I would suggest allowing Minmatar to train armor rigging. I would also like to see Amarr and Gallente allowed salvage drones 1 or 2. In RvB salvaging wrecks can be somewhat lucrative and if you allow salvage drones it can make for some quite fun and flexible Magnate and Imicus fits. I apologize if this has already been discussed but...63 pages of comments.
Acting Blue CEO, Senior Combat Coordinator, admirer of Caracals
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 16:44:51 -
[1250] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
And how is this different from the current situation? Any current player who has the ISK to push a new char to that amount of SP also has enough ISK and/or is generating enough ISK to plex that account as well. On top of that, depending on how the new character is going to be used, it would not even require a seperate account. As long as you don-¦t need to log in the new char at the same time as other chars, a free slot on an existing account is all you need. Castrating new players, does not change anything for current players at all. The only situation where your argument would have any merit is in a discussion against skill injectors. Do not interpret this wrong though, I don-¦t care either way, I just think your argument is misplaced here. Just to mention the thing I am concerned about: The question only question I have is, how ccp will handle a possible large influx of players in terms of the "Rookie Help channel". It-¦s hard enough to follow the chat as it is sometimes and if the number of people who end up in one and the same channel goes up a lot things might get really messy there. On top of the amount of serious questions going through the roof the amount of trolls surely will rise as well. Does CCP have the manpower to properly police the channel, or will the few experienced people who spend their time in there be confronted with a huge amount of trolls, ISK-sellers and all kinds of other off-topic conversations that make the job of the helpers almost impossible? And no.... blocking people in that channel is not a solution for the helpers, because then you have no chance of actually catching and correcting it when people are giving bad advise on purpose and troll the **** out of new players. If you read the whole thing through Carniflex was saying that the alpha state should be all T1 frigates with access to 70 odd mill skill points worth of skills and i was saying how can you call it balanced or fair to someone completely new bar them opening there wallets. It doesnt matter what happens in the current november release of the alpha's as theyre all limited to 5 mill and racial ships and skill sets. I did read the whole thing and I am asking you again: How is that any different from the current situation? No matter if you limit alphas as much as they are limited in the current design, if you have the ISK or RL $ to get enough injectors you have enough ISK or $ to upgrade to omega under the new system as well (if you are not creating the new char on an account that has omega status anyway). The problem in that whole scenario are the injectors and not giving alphas more room to develope their chars. Well for one can you show me where i can get a 75 mill sp alpha and i dont need a subscription for it please. If you had read it that is what he's proposing, |
|
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 17:08:21 -
[1251] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Well for one can you show me where i can get a 75 mill sp alpha and i dont need a subscription for it please. If you had read it that is what he's proposing,
Let me give you a theoretical example:
Scenario 1: Alpha clones are added to the game with a 5 mi sp limit.
A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, upgrades to omega and either invests a lot of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil.
Scenario 2 (the theoretical proposed scenario): Alpha clones are added to the game with a 75 mil sp limit:
A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, invests the same amount of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil sp.
So where is the difference in both scenarios in regards to:
Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
?
There is none, so your counter argument if anything is valid against skill injectors and not against giving new players a little bit more room to develope their chars.
Again, having to pay plexs to keep omega status in scenario 1 does not matter at all. If you can push that much money or ISK into creating a new char, the cost of plex is not a factor at all in general and not of any interested to the neutral player who does not want to drop any money to boost his sp.
The big difference here is that in scenario 2, the new player does have a lot more room to develope his char and gets access to more fun toys.
And again: I am not saying 75 million is a reasonable limit, but at the very least new players should have the ability to cross train races, so they can test different races and playstyles without having to train support skills on 4 different chars over and over again. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 17:20:46 -
[1252] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:
Well for one can you show me where i can get a 75 mill sp alpha and i dont need a subscription for it please. If you had read it that is what he's proposing,
Let me give you a theoretical example: Scenario 1: Alpha clones are added to the game with a 5 mi sp limit. A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, upgrades to omega and either invests a lot of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil. Scenario 2 (the theoretical proposed scenario): Alpha clones are added to the game with a 75 mil sp limit: A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, invests the same amount of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil sp. So where is the difference in both scenarios in regards to: Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
? There is none, so your counter argument if anything is valid against skill injectors and not against giving new players a little bit more room to develope their chars. Again, having to pay plexs to keep omega status in scenario 1 does not matter at all. If you can push that much money or ISK into creating a new char, the cost of plex is not a factor at all in general and not of any interested to the neutral player who does not want to drop any money to boost his sp. The big difference here is that in scenario 2, the new player does have a lot more room to develope his char and gets access to more fun toys. And again: I am not saying 75 million is a reasonable limit, but at the very least new players should have the ability to cross train races, so they can test different races and playstyles without having to train support skills on 4 different chars over and over again. It's just an open ended trial, the object is to get people to sub into the game not open it up so there is no reason to sub, is there something you don't follow. I fully understand what your saying and it's ridiculous. They have opened it up to anyone expired or not they have taken away time restrictions on the trial and increased the skill point gain on the freeplay mode three fold and its still not enough.
It really is no wonder they post stuff and go ahead regardless of what the player base says as most of it is complete BS, Rings true of biting the hand sometimes.
PS. i was anti extractors and injectors and was posting for 7 weeks when that was at its peake before another comes up with CCP shill crap. |
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 17:37:32 -
[1253] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:
Well for one can you show me where i can get a 75 mill sp alpha and i dont need a subscription for it please. If you had read it that is what he's proposing,
Let me give you a theoretical example: Scenario 1: Alpha clones are added to the game with a 5 mi sp limit. A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, upgrades to omega and either invests a lot of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil. Scenario 2 (the theoretical proposed scenario): Alpha clones are added to the game with a 75 mil sp limit: A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, invests the same amount of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil sp. So where is the difference in both scenarios in regards to: Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
? There is none, so your counter argument if anything is valid against skill injectors and not against giving new players a little bit more room to develope their chars. Again, having to pay plexs to keep omega status in scenario 1 does not matter at all. If you can push that much money or ISK into creating a new char, the cost of plex is not a factor at all in general and not of any interested to the neutral player who does not want to drop any money to boost his sp. The big difference here is that in scenario 2, the new player does have a lot more room to develope his char and gets access to more fun toys. And again: I am not saying 75 million is a reasonable limit, but at the very least new players should have the ability to cross train races, so they can test different races and playstyles without having to train support skills on 4 different chars over and over again. It's just an open ended trial, the object is to get people to sub into the game not open it up so there is no reason to sub, is there something you don't follow. I fully understand what your saying and it's ridiculous. They have opened it up to anyone expired or not they have taken away time restrictions on the trial and increased the skill point gain on the freeplay mode three fold and its still not enough. It really is no wonder they post stuff and go ahead regardless of what the player base says as most of it is complete BS, Rings true of biting the hand sometimes. PS. i was anti extractors and injectors and was posting for 7 weeks when that was at its peake before another comes up with CCP shill crap.
You still have not answered my question and you are just putting words into my mouth. Nowhere did I say that the game should be fully available for alpha players. I simply pointed out that your argument makes no sense in the given context, because the 5 million sp limit will not stop people from using the skill injector path if that is what they want to do. In my last post added that they should at least be able to cross train.
The reason for that is quite simple: When you start EvE you most likely have no idea what the strength or weaknesses of certain races. Which weapon systems different races use and the slight differences in playstyles that are better suited for certain weapon systems. Giving new players at least the chance to explore them all with one char is quite different from saying that people should be able to enjoy the full game for free.
Go ahead and get into rookie help for some time and see how many new pilots are already complaining about the long training times, while now they train at the same rate as subs and can easily just switch to another races ships if they do not like their initial choice. With the current plan for alphas they have to completly start over again and have to train skills they already trained on their first char and on top of that at a slower rate than now. I can assure you, this will not be very motivating from my experience of working with new eve players for many years. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 17:54:19 -
[1254] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:
Well for one can you show me where i can get a 75 mill sp alpha and i dont need a subscription for it please. If you had read it that is what he's proposing,
Let me give you a theoretical example: Scenario 1: Alpha clones are added to the game with a 5 mi sp limit. A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, upgrades to omega and either invests a lot of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil. Scenario 2 (the theoretical proposed scenario): Alpha clones are added to the game with a 75 mil sp limit: A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, invests the same amount of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil sp. So where is the difference in both scenarios in regards to: Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
? There is none, so your counter argument if anything is valid against skill injectors and not against giving new players a little bit more room to develope their chars. Again, having to pay plexs to keep omega status in scenario 1 does not matter at all. If you can push that much money or ISK into creating a new char, the cost of plex is not a factor at all in general and not of any interested to the neutral player who does not want to drop any money to boost his sp. The big difference here is that in scenario 2, the new player does have a lot more room to develope his char and gets access to more fun toys. And again: I am not saying 75 million is a reasonable limit, but at the very least new players should have the ability to cross train races, so they can test different races and playstyles without having to train support skills on 4 different chars over and over again. It's just an open ended trial, the object is to get people to sub into the game not open it up so there is no reason to sub, is there something you don't follow. I fully understand what your saying and it's ridiculous. They have opened it up to anyone expired or not they have taken away time restrictions on the trial and increased the skill point gain on the freeplay mode three fold and its still not enough. It really is no wonder they post stuff and go ahead regardless of what the player base says as most of it is complete BS, Rings true of biting the hand sometimes. PS. i was anti extractors and injectors and was posting for 7 weeks when that was at its peake before another comes up with CCP shill crap. You still have not answered my question and you are just putting words into my mouth. Nowhere did I say that the game should be fully available for alpha players. I simply pointed out that your argument makes no sense in the given context, because the 5 million sp limit will not stop people from using the skill injector path if that is what they want to do. In my last post added that they should at least be able to cross train. The reason for that is quite simple: When you start EvE you most likely have no idea what the strength or weaknesses of certain races. Which weapon systems different races use and the slight differences in playstyles that are better suited for certain weapon systems. Giving new players at least the chance to explore them all with one char is quite different from saying that people should be able to enjoy the full game for free. Go ahead and get into rookie help for some time and see how many new pilots are already complaining about the long training times, while now they train at the same rate as subs and can easily just switch to another races ships if they do not like their initial choice. With the current plan for alphas they have to completly start over again and have to train skills they already trained on their first char and on top of that at a slower rate than now. I can assure you, this will not be very motivating from my experience of working with new eve players for many years. I spend upto 6 hours a day in there on 2 of my characters ive never seen you in there
|
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 18:08:35 -
[1255] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:
I spend upto 6 hours a day in there on 2 of my characters ive never seen you in there
I have been in there on many different chars over the years, lately I must admit that I did not log in a lot. But when I log in thse days I am sitting in that channel with one of my other chars named "Nora Starblaze".
And before the channel even existed I often took timeouts from low-sec and 0.0 life and went to high sec, grabbed some new players and answered their questions, occasionally ran temporary little newbie corps until the recruits I grabbed moved on to their next phase in EvE ;). |
Vennoh Saki
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 18:26:56 -
[1256] - Quote
First I want to congratulate you for the new access to the game F2P and the two types of clones, but if possible to add a third type with a second skill que for capital ships and command links that work simultaneously with the subcapital que... so you can learn two types of skills at once one capital and one subcapitaln++ . And no i do not want to buy or to train a different character because i feel like that's not me, my character. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 18:35:12 -
[1257] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:
I spend upto 6 hours a day in there on 2 of my characters ive never seen you in there
I have been in there on many different chars over the years, lately I must admit that I did not log in a lot. But when I log in thse days I am sitting in that channel with one of my other chars named "Nora Starblaze". And before the channel even existed I often took timeouts from low-sec and 0.0 life and went to high sec, grabbed some new players and answered their questions, occasionally ran temporary little newbie corps until the recruits I grabbed moved on to their next phase in EvE ;). So you now say you like helping rookies and have done so in the past and a few things spring to mind here with your why cant we cross train :
Genuine new players - rookie chat, why is my dps so bad, whats your fit or what weapons are you using im flying a Tristan but my lasers dps isnt good or why wont these launcher fit on my slasher. I got a rifter from the tutorials and i put my drones in the cargo how do i use them.
All this would be done away with if the alpha's only had access to there racial skills as it wouldnt even let you use it. I would say thats a good start at cutting out the problems given by cross training from the word go to new players. |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 18:46:16 -
[1258] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:
Well for one can you show me where i can get a 75 mill sp alpha and i dont need a subscription for it please. If you had read it that is what he's proposing,
Let me give you a theoretical example: Scenario 1: Alpha clones are added to the game with a 5 mi sp limit. A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, upgrades to omega and either invests a lot of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil. Scenario 2 (the theoretical proposed scenario): Alpha clones are added to the game with a 75 mil sp limit: A new or existing player goes and makes a new char, invests the same amount of ISK or RL $ to push his char up to 75 mil sp. So where is the difference in both scenarios in regards to: Daylan Vokan wrote: The first and foremost problem of your Utopian free play mode is that any current player could create a free character blast it upto what ever he needs with injectors and have a very skilled toon instantly and not have to bother with a subcription for it negating your 8 year principle straight down the crapper.
I can think of many ways this could be abused by the current player base much to the disgust of any new player that will definitely see as Pay2win from a new player stand point as all alpha would not be created and be able to train within a set parameters equally unless they got their wallets out.
? There is none, so your counter argument if anything is valid against skill injectors and not against giving new players a little bit more room to develope their chars. Again, having to pay plexs to keep omega status in scenario 1 does not matter at all. If you can push that much money or ISK into creating a new char, the cost of plex is not a factor at all in general and not of any interested to the neutral player who does not want to drop any money to boost his sp. The big difference here is that in scenario 2, the new player does have a lot more room to develope his char and gets access to more fun toys. And again: I am not saying 75 million is a reasonable limit, but at the very least new players should have the ability to cross train races, so they can test different races and playstyles without having to train support skills on 4 different chars over and over again. It's just an open ended trial, the object is to get people to sub into the game not open it up so there is no reason to sub, is there something you don't follow. I fully understand what your saying and it's ridiculous. They have opened it up to anyone expired or not they have taken away time restrictions on the trial and increased the skill point gain on the freeplay mode three fold and its still not enough. It really is no wonder they post stuff and go ahead regardless of what the player base says as most of it is complete BS, Rings true of biting the hand sometimes. PS. i was anti extractors and injectors and was posting for 7 weeks when that was at its peake before another comes up with CCP shill crap. You still have not answered my question and you are just putting words into my mouth. Nowhere did I say that the game should be fully available for alpha players. I simply pointed out that your argument makes no sense in the given context, because the 5 million sp limit will not stop people from using the skill injector path if that is what they want to do. In my last post added that they should at least be able to cross train. The reason for that is quite simple: When you start EvE you most likely have no idea what the strength or weaknesses of certain races. Which weapon systems different races use and the slight differences in playstyles that are better suited for certain weapon systems. Giving new players at least the chance to explore them all with one char is quite different from saying that people should be able to enjoy the full game for free. Go ahead and get into rookie help for some time and see how many new pilots are already complaining about the long training times, while now they train at the same rate as subs and can easily just switch to another races ships if they do not like their initial choice. With the current plan for alphas they have to completly start over again and have to train skills they already trained on their first char and on top of that at a slower rate than now. I can assure you, this will not be very motivating from my experience of working with new eve players for many years.
Why should they be able to cross train? Yes they have to train over if they hate Gallente and would prefer Caldari.
We can't! I made some errors over the last 4 years but have had to suck it up and deal with it, they can too, all they have to do is sub, and, until lately, we were all stuck with the same skill queue ticking over. This is just an extended trial, that's what you all have to deal with, let them moan as much as they like...
As for injectors fine let them buy one, a player starting out now can as well if he wants, and this is where it gets exactly the same, now or in November....To benefit from them, you have to stay subbed, it doesn't matter if a character was made 12 years ago, or in a couple of months, no sub and they'll be equal apart from some experience with fits etc, but google takes care of that to a large extent. |
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 18:46:50 -
[1259] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote: So you now say you like helping rookies and have done so in the past and a few things spring to mind here with your why cant we cross train :
Genuine new players - rookie chat, why is my dps so bad, whats your fit or what weapons are you using im flying a Tristan but my lasers dps isnt good or why wont these launcher fit on my slasher. I got a rifter from the tutorials and i put my drones in the cargo how do i use them.
All this would be done away with if the alpha's only had access to there racial skills as it wouldnt even let you use it. I would say thats a good start at cutting out the problems given by cross training from the word go to new players.
While that happens sometimes, the ability to cross train is not really the issue, the bigger problem is that new pilots very often do not look at the traits of the ships.
If you take that as an argument you also have to remove industrial ships from the list as often enough people come up with the idea to mine in industrials instead of using the venture -> again ppl not lookint at traits.
But that quite simply is just a general misunderstanding of how different ships get a different bonus and that problem will not be solved by locking them into a single race. |
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 18:53:25 -
[1260] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:
Why should they be able to cross train? Yes they have to train over if they hate Gallente and would prefer Caldari.
We can't! I made some errors over the last 4 years but have had to suck it up and deal with it, they can too, all they have to do is sub,,,,,
Isn-¦t he whole point of the trial / alpha clone to test the game without having to sub?.... If they have to sub anyway to test the game, why make the change at all?
|
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5196
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:02:02 -
[1261] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:
[snip]
And yeah theoretically all kinds of nice things are accessible to Alphas and in principle they could just bring more of themselves to overcome the extremely limited skillset handicap. But I honestly do believe that as it is currently proposed most potential players would just take a look and not bother with it. I myself, for example, are not willing to invest my time into a game that I perceive as unfair at fundamental level.
[snip]
I donGÇÖt see the issue with fairness here. I do not think players not paying a monthly sub should get the same access I and others who do pay a monthly sub get. That is the way it is in any F2P/P2W game. Is your suggestion that Alpha clones have exactly the same access as Omega clonesGÇöi.e. there is no distinction at all? If so, great IGÇÖm cancelling my subscriptions as will just about everyone else, and by December we wonGÇÖt be playing Eve Online at all.
Here is the other thing. If you say, well Alphas have no skill cap, but slower training times. Guess what IGÇÖm un-subbing again. Why? My main has 137 million SP. IGÇÖm done worrying about training new things at max speed. I can fly all the logistics ships, all the HACs, all the T3 cruisers and destroyers, there arenGÇÖt may ships I canGÇÖt get into. So IGÇÖll unsub and just stop paying. So again, do this and by January maybe February weGÇÖll be done playing Eve Online again.
Somebody has to pay the bills and provide the gameGǪand that is the Omega customers. If the Alphas donGÇÖt like that we are paying the bills for the server they are connecting tooGǪthen become and Omega cloneGÇöi.e. get out your wallet and help support the game. Or continue to free ride and put up with the limitations.
There is no issue with regards to fairness it is about paying for the damn game. All this talk of fairness is starting to smack of people who want to free ride. But every one free rides...nobody free rides.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:02:44 -
[1262] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: So you now say you like helping rookies and have done so in the past and a few things spring to mind here with your why cant we cross train :
Genuine new players - rookie chat, why is my dps so bad, whats your fit or what weapons are you using im flying a Tristan but my lasers dps isnt good or why wont these launcher fit on my slasher. I got a rifter from the tutorials and i put my drones in the cargo how do i use them.
All this would be done away with if the alpha's only had access to there racial skills as it wouldnt even let you use it. I would say thats a good start at cutting out the problems given by cross training from the word go to new players.
While that happens sometimes, the ability to cross train is not really the issue, the bigger problem is that new pilots very often do not look at the traits of the ships. If you take that as an argument you also have to remove industrial ships from the list as often enough people come up with the idea to mine in industrials instead of using the venture -> again ppl not lookint at traits. But that quite simply is just a general misunderstanding of how different ships get a different bonus and that problem will not be solved by locking them into a single race. So if you pull the plug on genuine new players having this problem from the start it would lessen the burden on ISD/CCP staff and anyone else who cares to help out.
Its not just the ships, Its weapon systems not understanding that they dont need shield mods and armour tanks on the same ship and yes why can't we stick a mining turret on an industrial, Your also forgetting probably the main one. Is it possible to plex this before my time runs out, come november that will also be a thing of the past. So removing the ability to cross train actually helps the helpers. |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
2255
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:06:14 -
[1263] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Again, having to pay plexs to keep omega status in scenario 1 does not matter at all. If you can push that much money or ISK into creating a new char, the cost of plex is not a factor at all in general and not of any interested to the neutral player who does not want to drop any money to boost his sp. You are solely looking at it from the player perspective. True, for an individual player it might not make much of a difference money wise. Boosting a character from a few k SP to 75 million is already a large investment. RL Money or Isk wise. However, for CCP scenario 1. gives a sustained income stream in monthly subscription (or PLEX), while scenario 2. gives none.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
|
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:14:09 -
[1264] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: So you now say you like helping rookies and have done so in the past and a few things spring to mind here with your why cant we cross train :
Genuine new players - rookie chat, why is my dps so bad, whats your fit or what weapons are you using im flying a Tristan but my lasers dps isnt good or why wont these launcher fit on my slasher. I got a rifter from the tutorials and i put my drones in the cargo how do i use them.
All this would be done away with if the alpha's only had access to there racial skills as it wouldnt even let you use it. I would say thats a good start at cutting out the problems given by cross training from the word go to new players.
While that happens sometimes, the ability to cross train is not really the issue, the bigger problem is that new pilots very often do not look at the traits of the ships. If you take that as an argument you also have to remove industrial ships from the list as often enough people come up with the idea to mine in industrials instead of using the venture -> again ppl not lookint at traits. But that quite simply is just a general misunderstanding of how different ships get a different bonus and that problem will not be solved by locking them into a single race. So if you pull the plug on genuine new players having this problem from the start it would lessen the burden on ISD/CCP staff and anyone else who cares to help out. Its not just the ships, Its weapon systems not understanding that they dont need shield mods and armour tanks on the same ship and yes why can't we stick a mining turret on an industrial, Your also forgetting probably the main one. Is it possible to plex this before my time runs out, come november that will also be a thing of the past. So removing the ability to cross train actually helps the helpers.
Forum just ate my post... cba to go into detail again since all you do now is grasping at straws.
Long story short, other then the question about the ability to earn a plex in the trial time, none of those questions will suddenly disappear, by locking them into a single race. That will still not teach them automatically how to fit properly, they will not all of a sudden open the info window on ships and check traits, just because they are locked into a single race.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5197
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:15:41 -
[1265] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:
Given the nature of EVE I do not think it can be avoided that a person who has been around longer has more skills / knowledge / assets and has an advantage over a fresh member of the community. Reduced training speed / assets gaining is de facto standard in free to play games for free accounts - even in games that are considered generally fair and well balanced from the viewpoint of micro transactions.
Then it will have to apply to everyone. That is the default is everyone becomes an Alpha clone, skill points are created out of thin air by CCP, as are pretty much everything elseGÇöi.e. kiss goodbye the market too. And I bet people will still be here crying because I have 137 million SP on my main and DONGÇÖT have to P2W. TheyGÇÖll be complaining that they have to pay to catch up. See the posts by the player named Dror.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:18:52 -
[1266] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Again, having to pay plexs to keep omega status in scenario 1 does not matter at all. If you can push that much money or ISK into creating a new char, the cost of plex is not a factor at all in general and not of any interested to the neutral player who does not want to drop any money to boost his sp. You are solely looking at it from the player perspective. True, for an individual player it might not make much of a difference money wise. Boosting a character from a few k SP to 75 million is already a large investment. RL Money or Isk wise. However, for CCP scenario 1. gives a sustained income stream in monthly subscription (or PLEX), while scenario 2. gives none.
And the whole point was in context to how it is percieved from a players point of view who possibly would see this kind of behaviour as pay to win. The discussion was not about: in which scenario ccp earns more. It was about the player perspective right from the start.
Of course ccp earns more in scenario 1 (if the new char is not already on an account that is already getting payed for anyway).
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5197
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:18:55 -
[1267] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So...you place a bounty on me, right? What is to stop me (the player) from having my alt scan my character's ship, shoot me and collect the bounty? What about system where bounty owner has to manually approve each payment? Let's say i put bounty on someone. This sets flag (visible to anyone). Then when somebody presses the button and kills the target i get notification with killmail. Then i enter amount and press button and send ISK or don't. And let's say people can see history of bounty contracts created by me (it can be made anonymous but linked to the character) with information about every bounty contract offered and killmails paid or not. This allows me to check whether killmail looks legit or not. At least i can try to detect usage of alt. This gives possible contractor to check whether previous bounties were paid or not and decide if kill worth effort. Additionally this gives some protection from overinflated module/ship prices and gives overall control over the system to players. I see killmail value but i always can check real market price and set bounty accordingly. And if i'm greedy then in future i can find none of my contracts taken. Thoughts?
So, I as an actual bounty hunter can expect to get screwed on a regular basis.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:19:27 -
[1268] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: So you now say you like helping rookies and have done so in the past and a few things spring to mind here with your why cant we cross train :
Genuine new players - rookie chat, why is my dps so bad, whats your fit or what weapons are you using im flying a Tristan but my lasers dps isnt good or why wont these launcher fit on my slasher. I got a rifter from the tutorials and i put my drones in the cargo how do i use them.
All this would be done away with if the alpha's only had access to there racial skills as it wouldnt even let you use it. I would say thats a good start at cutting out the problems given by cross training from the word go to new players.
While that happens sometimes, the ability to cross train is not really the issue, the bigger problem is that new pilots very often do not look at the traits of the ships. If you take that as an argument you also have to remove industrial ships from the list as often enough people come up with the idea to mine in industrials instead of using the venture -> again ppl not lookint at traits. But that quite simply is just a general misunderstanding of how different ships get a different bonus and that problem will not be solved by locking them into a single race. So if you pull the plug on genuine new players having this problem from the start it would lessen the burden on ISD/CCP staff and anyone else who cares to help out. Its not just the ships, Its weapon systems not understanding that they dont need shield mods and armour tanks on the same ship and yes why can't we stick a mining turret on an industrial, Your also forgetting probably the main one. Is it possible to plex this before my time runs out, come november that will also be a thing of the past. So removing the ability to cross train actually helps the helpers. Forum just ate my post... cba to go into detail again since all you do now is grasping at straws. Long story short, other then the question about the ability to earn a plex in the trial time, none of those questions will suddenly disappear, by locking them into a single race. That will still not teach them automatically how to fit properly, they will not all of a sudden open the info window on ships and check traits, just because they are locked into a single race. I think even a new player can understand the text that appears when it says Unable to bring online weapon or module XXX As it rquires you to have learned XXXX to level 1
Has it been such a long time since you assisted anyone. |
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:32:17 -
[1269] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: So you now say you like helping rookies and have done so in the past and a few things spring to mind here with your why cant we cross train :
Genuine new players - rookie chat, why is my dps so bad, whats your fit or what weapons are you using im flying a Tristan but my lasers dps isnt good or why wont these launcher fit on my slasher. I got a rifter from the tutorials and i put my drones in the cargo how do i use them.
All this would be done away with if the alpha's only had access to there racial skills as it wouldnt even let you use it. I would say thats a good start at cutting out the problems given by cross training from the word go to new players.
While that happens sometimes, the ability to cross train is not really the issue, the bigger problem is that new pilots very often do not look at the traits of the ships. If you take that as an argument you also have to remove industrial ships from the list as often enough people come up with the idea to mine in industrials instead of using the venture -> again ppl not lookint at traits. But that quite simply is just a general misunderstanding of how different ships get a different bonus and that problem will not be solved by locking them into a single race. So if you pull the plug on genuine new players having this problem from the start it would lessen the burden on ISD/CCP staff and anyone else who cares to help out. Its not just the ships, Its weapon systems not understanding that they dont need shield mods and armour tanks on the same ship and yes why can't we stick a mining turret on an industrial, Your also forgetting probably the main one. Is it possible to plex this before my time runs out, come november that will also be a thing of the past. So removing the ability to cross train actually helps the helpers. Forum just ate my post... cba to go into detail again since all you do now is grasping at straws. Long story short, other then the question about the ability to earn a plex in the trial time, none of those questions will suddenly disappear, by locking them into a single race. That will still not teach them automatically how to fit properly, they will not all of a sudden open the info window on ships and check traits, just because they are locked into a single race. I think even a new player can understand the text that appears when it says Unable to bring online weapon or module XXX As it rquires you to have learned XXXX to level 1 Has it been such a long time since you assisted anyone.
That tells them they can not fit module x that still does not teach them how to fit the ship properly. Either way people who do not look at traits on their own right now, will still have to be told to look at them, as it-¦s not just about fitting the correct guns.
Anyway... keep grasping.. I wasted enough time on that fruitless discussion. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:44:03 -
[1270] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:
That tells them they can not fit module x that still does not teach them how to fit the ship properly. Either way people who do not look at traits on their own right now, will still have to be told to look at them, as it-¦s not just about fitting the correct guns.
Anyway... keep grasping.. I wasted enough time on that fruitless discussion.
It's not grasping, i have patience especially some of the drivel thats been posted on here like yours, we're not on about how to fit a ship we're on about that without them being able to use none racial skills they wont even be able to use said bad fits on the ships in the first place ..... pay attention and keep up now. |
|
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 20:46:18 -
[1271] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:
It's not grasping, i have patience especially some of the drivel thats been posted on here like yours, we're not on about how to fit a ship we're on about that without them being able to use none racial skills they wont even be able to use said bad fits on the ships in the first place ..... pay attention and keep up now.
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Genuine new players - rookie chat, why is my dps so bad, whats your fit or what weapons are you using im flying a Tristan but my lasers dps isnt good or why wont these launcher fit on my slasher. I got a rifter from the tutorials and i put my drones in the cargo how do i use them.
Daylan Vokan wrote: I think even a new player can understand the text that appears when it says Unable to bring online weapon or module XXX As it rquires you to have learned XXXX to level 1
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Its not just the ships, Its weapon systems not understanding that they dont need shield mods and armour tanks on the same ship and yes why can't we stick a mining turret on an industrial, Your also forgetting probably the main one. Is it possible to plex this before my time runs out, come november that will also be a thing of the past. So removing the ability to cross train actually helps the helpers.
Bolded the parts just for you, where you are not at all talking about anything that is about how to fit ships.
So let me point out why I have no interest in keeping up the discussion.
1. You dodge any argument or question. 2. You are obviously biased against anyone posing on the forums. 3. You change your goalpost. 4. Instead of making counter reasonable counter arguments, you try to discredit the person making the arguments. 5. You don-¦t even know what you just posted yourself.
-> there is no point in keeping this up. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 21:10:42 -
[1272] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:
It's not grasping, i have patience especially some of the drivel thats been posted on here like yours, we're not on about how to fit a ship we're on about that without them being able to use none racial skills they wont even be able to use said bad fits on the ships in the first place ..... pay attention and keep up now.
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Genuine new players - rookie chat, why is my dps so bad, whats your fit or what weapons are you using im flying a Tristan but my lasers dps isnt good or why wont these launcher fit on my slasher. I got a rifter from the tutorials and i put my drones in the cargo how do i use them.
Daylan Vokan wrote: I think even a new player can understand the text that appears when it says Unable to bring online weapon or module XXX As it rquires you to have learned XXXX to level 1
Daylan Vokan wrote:
Its not just the ships, Its weapon systems not understanding that they dont need shield mods and armour tanks on the same ship and yes why can't we stick a mining turret on an industrial, Your also forgetting probably the main one. Is it possible to plex this before my time runs out, come november that will also be a thing of the past. So removing the ability to cross train actually helps the helpers.
Bolded the parts just for you, where you are not at all talking about anything that is about how to fit ships. So let me point out why I have no interest in keeping up the discussion. 1. You dodge any argument or question. 2. You are obviously biased against anyone posing on the forums. 3. You change your goalpost. 4. Instead of making counter reasonable counter arguments, you try to discredit the person making the arguments. 5. You don-¦t even know what you just posted yourself. -> there is no point in keeping this up. and you deflect and offer strawman tactics well done ...... |
Kusum Fawn
Perkone Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 00:06:35 -
[1273] - Quote
Ray Mitar wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:Seriously, Lock Alpha characters into FW.
One of the biggest issues that people have in game is thinking of what to do ingame. There are so many different avenues of what to do that many people simply dont know where to go and never move to do things.
Start them off with a goal, a community and a reason to play. Start them off with a definitive enemy to shoot at.
Make new Alpha complexes for them to capture, let them go to the regular ones. Have the Fw store sell ships with fewer open slots and baked in modules/bonuses that make sense for a lower skilled character to use. Make these things cheap for alphas from the LP store.
They should be comparable to the regular t1 frigates we already have. make them reprocess into nothing though.
This can be made to make sense lore wise, As Empire factions decide to use excess cloning capacity to create their own soldiers for the cause and buying plex/subscriptions are you buying your freedom from the empires.
Lock them to one per launcher. the same way that trial characters are. lock safeties to yellow, they can still shoot wartargets in hisec. since the story is that they are part of the Empires military arm they dont get to do the same ganking that paying players get to do. simple.
I am sure there is more im not thinking of.
No. I think putting new players in a tiny box will not make them want to stay, let alone upgrade to subscription. "Welcome to EVE you second class citizens, just stay in your place!" Not the warmest intro or very positive new pilot experience. I want the kind of new pilot experience where they are becoming part of the New Eden Cluster, joining fleets, joining corps, and joining roams and ops. If they are allowed to do that when they are flying side by side with us and see our higher trained skills in action, we can say yes these are the benefits of being a "Patient" subscriber because it took a long time to get our skills trained to the current levels and we are still not done, never done, because you can always learn/ train something new.. I want them to learn about the game, by doing and seeing. If we pigeon hole them into niches that aren't very enticing to paid players I think the whole effort will be wasted. RvB type events for Alphas and Omegas in equally fit ships should be scheduled routinely by CCP to give them things to do and a sense of community achievement. The Frostline and Serpentis events were outstanding CCP please release something like that at least three times in the first six months of Alpha accounts. Yes a FW event that would give boosts or specialized Racial Alpha ships/bpcs as a reward for participation would be great also. An event large enough to attract most players but spread around all the arenas of the EVE universe from Null & Anoikis, to low and high sec. Busy pilots are happy pilots.
Busy Pilots are Happy Pilots.
Well yeah.
Thats exactly what making the Alpha clones into FW would do. otherwise you are relying on CCP to make events balanced around the superlow skilled and the 100+mil sp pilots, which as the people complaining about the Serpentis event will tell you, its no fun getting ninjaed by a demios or ishtar when you are flying a meta4 brutix. How are the Alphas going to compete with my t3d or t3c ?
Rather make them fight each other, make them food for the bigger fish, and make their ships replaceable so that they can continually group to fight the bigger fish. casuals arent going to want to farm for weeks in a venture to afford a cruiser. specially when they cant ever skill higher then a cruiser without paying. and heres the important part of that.
They will never be able to skill high enough to be on equal footing anywhere with an omega.
Its also not like being in FW means they cant move to null, or wh, it does however mean that they arent free safe farming or ganking alts. since with FW status you can set their safeties to yellow and still give them the full experience of eve within fw.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Crack Spawn
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 02:37:43 -
[1274] - Quote
Everyone's argument is now moot
CCP announcement
Due to overwhelming Support the DEV's will be forging ahead with this new feature for the August Release
lol guess I've been reading a different thread |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 07:59:56 -
[1275] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Carniflex wrote:
[snip]
And yeah theoretically all kinds of nice things are accessible to Alphas and in principle they could just bring more of themselves to overcome the extremely limited skillset handicap. But I honestly do believe that as it is currently proposed most potential players would just take a look and not bother with it. I myself, for example, are not willing to invest my time into a game that I perceive as unfair at fundamental level.
[snip]
I donGÇÖt see the issue with fairness here. I do not think players not paying a monthly sub should get the same access I and others who do pay a monthly sub get. That is the way it is in any F2P/P2W game. Is your suggestion that Alpha clones have exactly the same access as Omega clonesGÇöi.e. there is no distinction at all? If so, great IGÇÖm cancelling my subscriptions as will just about everyone else, and by December we wonGÇÖt be playing Eve Online at all. Here is the other thing. If you say, well Alphas have no skill cap, but slower training times. Guess what IGÇÖm un-subbing again. Why? My main has 137 million SP. IGÇÖm done worrying about training new things at max speed. I can fly all the logistics ships, all the HACs, all the T3 cruisers and destroyers, there arenGÇÖt may ships I canGÇÖt get into. So IGÇÖll unsub and just stop paying. So again, do this and by January maybe February weGÇÖll be done playing Eve Online again. Somebody has to pay the bills and provide the gameGǪand that is the Omega customers. If the Alphas donGÇÖt like that we are paying the bills for the server they are connecting tooGǪthen become and Omega cloneGÇöi.e. get out your wallet and help support the game. Or continue to free ride and put up with the limitations. There is no issue with regards to fairness it is about paying for the damn game. All this talk of fairness is starting to smack of people who want to free ride. But every one free rides...nobody free rides.
Not unrestricted. In fact there have been still quite significant restrictions. The key point I have been trying to make has been that in my opinion an "unrestricted" T1 frigates (i.e., at the same level as Omegas, theoretically, after about 8 years of training without investing money/isk into it) would be a far better starting point for Alphas than frigates, destroyers and cruisers at the same T1 hull level with significant restrictions on max skill levels.
That 75 mil SP ballpark is a theoretical max SP Alpha pilot who has every single skill at level 5 which is even remotely relevant to flying a T1 frigate. In practice Advanced Weapon Upgrades lev 5 or the racial sensor strength skills to lev 5 are probably not particularly early priorities in anyone's skill trees. In my experience (which is not a frigate specific but involves generally also larger hulls) a pilot has essentials done at about 30.. 40 mil SP. I.e., fitting skills maxed, everything else as good as reasonable, frequently used fits close to max theoretical possible levels. The exact number for the max theoretical SP is not that important - what is important is that for a specific niche Alpha would be at the competitive level compared to Omega.
And yeah if you are wanting to fly only T1 frigates (including faction and pirate variants) then it would be OK to unsub. Even for the frigate specific content, however, the reason to subscribe would be there, as subscribing would give one access to the T2 hulls (and ofc larger hulls, access to industry and unrestricted access to market).
What is entirely OK in my opinion is Alpha clones using injectors. The SP gap (as long as max level is competitive enough in a given niche with subscribers) between a fresh free pilot and subscribed old pilot is not pay-to-win because the fresh pilot can catch up not paying the real money - that is the beauty of eve market - the fresh pilot could theoretically grind away to get enough isk to buy injectors and reach the same level as a dude who has been playing for years. That is standard "fair" free to play approach - possibility to switch the need to grind with a swipe of the credit card. In my opinion Alphas would be even more likely to use injectors than subscribers because of reduced base training rate. So in principle they would gain more from using an injector even when the added SP amount is exactly the same, that low rank L5 that would take a week to train for a subscriber would take, after all, the Alpha 2 weeks if the training speed reduction is 50%.
As far as the training speed itself goes on Alphas. There is an idea mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread which I quite liked (not originally by me). The idea was following - giving Alphas a variable skill training speed reduction as a function of the accumulated SP. So at 400 000 SP the Alpha could actually start with 100% training speed. The higher he goes SP wise the lower will be the training speed without the subscription. Say, for example, by 20 mil SP the training speed could be as low as 25% of the max increasing the lure of using the skill injectors (which gives CCP their cut as noted).
Another idea which I liked earlier in this thread was giving fresh pilots (this is not Alpha specific) some SP as reward for completing tutorials. THAT would be infact giving out "free" SP out of thin air by CCP, but if it would be just used to raise some specific newbie skills to the desired level directly I personally would not have a problem with that myself.
That was not part of my original argument, however, so there is no need for CCP to start directly giving out assets or SP for the cash. They get their cut when injectors are created because that takes real money that goes to the CCP wallet. So as long as the Alpha pilot uses skill injectors he is still giving CCP money - even if the particular Alpha pilot opts to grind the isk in-game and not spending a single real currency cent in person.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5202
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 08:04:37 -
[1276] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:
[giant snip]
Look, the point of going "free-to-play" is not to satisfy your notion of social justice or some other bullshit. It is an attempt to:
1. Get more players in game. 2. Get more players who pay subs. 3. Keep the damn lights on.
So take all your "it isn't fair nonsense" and grow up.
k' thanks bye.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 08:09:29 -
[1277] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Carniflex wrote:
[giant snip]
Look, the point of going "free-to-play" is not to satisfy your notion of social justice or some other bullshit. It is an attempt to: 1. Get more players in game. 2. Get more players who pay subs. 3. Keep the damn lights on. So take all your "it isn't fair nonsense" and grow up. k' thanks bye.
Exactly. That is why I have been arguing in favor of making Alphas competitive with Omegas in a given niche. I do understand that reading can be hard sometimes, not to mention the skill of functional reading. But that is OK. EVE is big enough sandbox for all kinds of people ;)
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Sachounette
New Western
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 11:47:34 -
[1278] - Quote
o7 guys!
There is some ideas about alpha clones and other ideas for help beginners to enjoy eve :
- Create a new 2.0 security status space only avaible for "alpha" clones, omega who wants to enter will be nerfed to alpha except the "trainging time" for skills who will continue as usual, only effective skills will be limited. (about 20 systems)
- Alpha will not be able to change their security status to prevent all form of suicide ganking, they will just be able to PVP in LS/NS/WH. Alpha clones will be gankable by omega as usual in regular space only (-1.0 to 1.0).
- Alpha wont be able to stay more than 24h in row outside of 2.0 space to limit the farm in WH. After 24h they will respawn in 2.0 space, in this case any stuff not T1 on ship or in cargo will be stocked in the station where ship will be to prevent a new form of hauling. If the ship is in space, the stuff not T1 will be destroyed. If you get something in regular space, be sure to stock it in any station/citadel to not loose it by respawn.
- In 2.0 area will be 5 PVP systems but the PVP will not be Free, people who wants to PVP have 3 choice :
- 1v1 at moons - 5v5 at planets - 20v20 at suns The players will be able to fight only through a match-meeting, if people come in fleet with 5, they only will be able to play against another pre-formed fleet of 5. The fight will be limited in time. The kills in thoses matchmeetings wont give a killmail but you will earn 1 point for 1 kill, with thoses points CCP will open a shop where they will give us acces to the chiness skins, thoses we ask since so long time... If you choose your oppenent, you won't earn any points. The chinese skinns won't be tradable, to make more people come pvp. The goal of this system, is to help people stop to be scared by PVP and learn that in eve when you loose a fight, your ship is destroyed. An important things is to take a part in a fleet, thigs you can't do in any tutorial or mission today. Thoses things must help new players to enjoy eve freely.
- Ships lost in PVP matchmeeting will be given back for free in the nearest station, only T1 frig/destro/cruise without modules, an alert will tell us that in regular fight you won't receive back your ship for free, but you can insure it to get a part of ISK back.
- Alpha won't be able to fit any mining ship outiside of 2.0 area to prevent abusive multi-account farming, the goal of thoses alpha status is to discover the game and not farm multi-box for veterans...
- There will be new "mini-games" in the 2.0 space and only there, like capture the flag with a frigate who will need to evade cruisers gun shoots, by flying well and using angular velocity, or signature tanking. The goal is to learn people to fly, actualy the missions not learn this aspect of the game.
- Alpha account will have a lifetime of 1 year, you will be able to increase it to 2 years maximum. After thoses 2 years the account will be blocked and you will have 1 year to activate it, if you don't, the account will be deleted to save the pool of nicknames for capsuleers. If you have upgrated your clone at last one time to omega rank, your account will be saved forever, and you will be able to play 2 years over the last omega status. This must prevent people who will use thoses accounts forever in alpha state, every 2 years they will need to upgrade it to omega.
The most important is to create new content for thoses alpha, making them discover the fun part of EvE > The fight! In other hand the alpha status must be fun for every player, not only the beginners! In many corporations people like to have a fair and fun fight with small and cheap ships, there is a place to do it and earn points to get extra skins! The match meeting will prevent cheating by earning free points with a "no-fight".
The real danger of Alpha clones is to open the game for too many new players without give them acces to fun like today, they will leave the game massively and tell others on the internet that eve is a ****** game and we will have the worst effect ever :/ Instead of increase the recruitement, players won't come anymore beceause so many of them will read everywhere (because of larger amount of testing accounts) to not come to this hard and not fun game :/ Alpha status must be worked hard to offer a new experience to the new generation of gamers with theirs codes like easy matchmeeting and if they like it, they can continue with an omega status but they will already learned to fly and to take a fight
In my point of view, this new status of Alpha clones must create new mecanics that give acces to fun. This is not a kind of make eve casual, thoses new things will be restricted in 2.0, a kind a micro sandbox in a sandbox game who will learn the basics through multiplayers mini-games. The multi-player aspect is very important to make freinds and give a way to form corporations in this 2.0 place.
So I hope maybe to bring some cool ideas here, and sorry for my english I do my best to take part to the future of eve, trying to make it better for everyone of us, veterans and beginners :) |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 12:00:07 -
[1279] - Quote
Did we just lose a whole bunch of posts from today (7 sept 2016) in this thread ?
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 12:37:02 -
[1280] - Quote
Unless we are both blind, they just deleted your idea and any post quoting it. And seems like they do not even bother to explain why. The fun part is, the last posts relating to the discussion remain without the context. Well played CCP, well played.
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
2269
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 12:55:15 -
[1281] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Did we just lose a whole bunch of posts from today (7 sept 2016) in this thread ? Apparently, yes.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 13:02:51 -
[1282] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Unless we are both blind, they just deleted your idea and any post quoting it. And seems like they do not even bother to explain why. The fun part is, the last posts relating to the discussion remain without the context. Well played CCP, well played.
This does not appear to be quite so sinister. The long text about what I think would be better approach and why which I submitted on 2nd Sept is still here (posts 1063, 1064 and 1065) as other posts where the merits and dangers of the idea have been discussed.
It just seems like all posts in this thread from early 7th Sept up to about DT have been lost somewhere. In total about 2 pages.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 13:19:29 -
[1283] - Quote
Well, the whole post where you present the 75 mil sp idea and most of the following discussion are gone, which in regards to the forum timestamp took place last evening / night, while the end (at least the end of the related discussion I participated in ) still is there. So, not all of them are gone, they have been selectivly removed.
No matter if I agree with your idea or not, that is not a way to treat customers who post and discuss feedback in a thread that was created for that purpose in the first place.
And then people wonder why a lot of ppl hate the eve forums and rather go to reddit O_o. |
Crack Spawn
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 13:46:01 -
[1284] - Quote
people people this is not your game never has been this is merely a game you play if CCP allow you to if you have negative or contradictory thoughts not in line with CCP its lost in a harmless data purge or in layman's turns a computer error..
No evil ISD or CCP employee would remove posts that I'm certain of, so who's exited that Santa's only 109 sleeps away and 220 till the Easter bunny returns oh boy oh boy |
Trepalluim
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 14:13:50 -
[1285] - Quote
Quote:Alphas will also train skills at a reduced rate compared to Omegas.
Do we know yet what will be the -Fixed or not- rate and what will be able to affect it ?
if i have a complete +5 implant set will i have to downgrade to whatever is allowed by my skills once converted from Omega? will it still work, be disabled or the speed be downgraded to whatever the skills allow?
will cybernetics III allow me to Use the complete list of implants Contained in Cybernetics III, or only Tech 1 items? http://pastebin.com/HZa2ztA5
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 18:38:29 -
[1286] - Quote
Trepalluim wrote:Quote:Alphas will also train skills at a reduced rate compared to Omegas. Do we know yet what will be the -Fixed or not- rate and what will be able to affect it ? if i have a complete +5 implant set will i have to downgrade to whatever is allowed by my skills once converted from Omega? will it still work, be disabled or the speed be downgraded to whatever the skills allow? i could use a jump clone, however since there is no mention of infomorph psychology i cant even go to my +3 set if i want to. if i have the max (10) JC's already installed, will i simply not be able to jump to them or will they be destroyed ? alternatively can i still jump to a JC in the same citadel i'm located in (and not trigger the JC timer of 18 hrs)? will cybernetics III allow me to Use the complete list of implants Contained in Cybernetics III, or only Tech 1 items? http://pastebin.com/HZa2ztA5
While I am not a dev I can try to answer some of these questions based on how I understand the current game mechanics.
Jump clones should function OK for Omegas that have dropped to Alphas - the skill is needed to install the clone, once created the additional clones are accessible unless you destroy them deliberately. However, the jump timer would be 24h for Alphas as the time reduction skills is not in the current list. Attribute implants would me irrelevant for Omegas that have dropped Alphas for most practical purposes because as it stands currently the Alphas have access to only about 5 mil SP regardless of the amout SP the Omega has - the skills in the list are pretty basic so vast majority of existing subscribes would have them already at levels above what Alpha can access so they would have no skill they could train in Alpha state. Cybernetics III should allow to a full list of implants that need it - in the devblog no additional constraints have been mentioned.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 18:43:17 -
[1287] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Well, the whole post where you present the 75 mil sp idea and most of the following discussion are gone, which in regards to the forum timestamp took place last evening / night, while the end (at least the end of the related discussion I participated in ) still is there. So, not all of them are gone, they have been selectivly removed.
No matter if I agree with your idea or not, that is not a way to treat customers who post and discuss feedback in a thread that was created for that purpose in the first place.
And then people wonder why a lot of ppl hate the eve forums and rather go to reddit O_o.
Hmmm ... time for a dramatic reddit thread? ;)
I have no notifications about being moderated or warning about breaking any rules. Although I do find it very annoying that the posts I spent several hours typing up have vanished in that manner. As it stands I just assume some technical glitch as I really do not believe the CCP staff would just remove constructive posts in this manner in an official feedback collecting thread for such a significant change to the game mechanics.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
389
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 18:50:23 -
[1288] - Quote
I think I found a way to break it really good:
Lots if Intel Compute Sticks. Those aren't very cheap in large quantities, or very powerful, but they are fully functional x86-64 computers. They can wi-fi, or they might stream over USB. Instead of VM windows, you'd have remote desktop sessions. They should be powerful enough to run a few frames per second, which is enough for mining or watching local. Because these actually are separate computers, they almost certainly wouldn't trip any current anti-multiboxing measure.
A signature :o
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Trepalluim
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 19:28:38 -
[1289] - Quote
Carniflex wrote: While I am not a dev I can try to answer some of these questions based on how I understand the current game mechanics. Jump clones should function OK for Omegas that have dropped to Alphas - the skill is needed to install the clone, once created the additional clones are accessible unless you destroy them deliberately. However, the jump timer would be 24h for Alphas as the time reduction skills is not in the current list. Attribute implants would me irrelevant for Omegas that have dropped Alphas for most practical purposes because as it stands currently the Alphas have access to only about 5 mil SP regardless of the amout SP the Omega has - the skills in the list are pretty basic so vast majority of existing subscribes would have them already at levels above what Alpha can access so they would have no skill they could train in Alpha state. Cybernetics III should allow to a full list of implants that need it - in the devblog no additional constraints have been mentioned.
I apreciate the effort however i'm looking slightly deeper than that. Going from clone A to clone B Now requires one to leave it's current body behind (read install a new jump clone). That may require the skill or destroy the body i'm leaving behind. There is still the intra-citadel jump case.. timer or not .
so for these new clones states i'm reading if the skill allows it, i can use it.
regardless of what skills one has or doesnt, i'm still curious on that implant / training speed topic since if i drop sub to train "insert race my original race" for free, it will be faster to do so if i have implants, i'm not going to list the situations this can happend in. I'm bringing it up since this is a feedback thread.
Also that character sheet in the devblog looks Horrible and i dont want that on any of my states.. EVER! The present UI for skills/character sheet is AWSOME dont touch it PLEASE. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8694
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 22:12:08 -
[1290] - Quote
Carniflex wrote: As it stands I just assume some technical glitch as I really do not believe the CCP staff would just remove constructive posts in this manner in an official feedback collecting thread for such a significant change to the game mechanics.
That's funny...
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1757
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 01:57:46 -
[1291] - Quote
If something has been removed by a moderator I've always seen a post by them talking about why. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
201
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 10:02:09 -
[1292] - Quote
Trepalluim wrote:
I apreciate the effort however i'm looking slightly deeper than that. Going from clone A to clone B Now requires one to leave it's current body behind (read install a new jump clone). That may require the skill or destroy the body i'm leaving behind. There is still the intra-citadel jump case.. timer or not .
so for these new clones states i'm reading if the skill allows it, i can use it.
regardless of what skills one has or doesnt, i'm still curious on that implant / training speed topic since if i drop sub to train "insert race my original race" for free, it will be faster to do so if i have implants, i'm not going to list the situations this can happend in. I'm bringing it up since this is a feedback thread.
Well, alphas are limited to just hop back to the med clone so JCs are not an option and yes, you are likely intended to loose the +5imps if you try. CCP doesn't want to make it cosy for Omegas to hop back and skill for free on alpha. And IMHO anything limited to the alpha skills should not be running around with +5imps. IMHO working as intended. The only use for alphas for someone with a Omega clone would be free skilling for another account that will be later plexed cause even a max skilled Alpha is more or less useless for things you need a second account for. They will most likely limit the amount of alphas logged in simultaneously to stop scouting with alpha fleets.
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Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 10:48:30 -
[1293] - Quote
Good thing we have http://www.eve-search.com/thread/491738-1/page/42
If you compare the thread before and after the "cleanup" you can not tell me that the posts have not been removed selectively.
Let-¦s compare take a closer look at the timestamps here.
EF = Eve forums ; ES = eve Search
2016-09-06 09:04:16 - EF #1223 = ES post #1231 (Rogasus Hakuli)
2016.09.06 09:51:09 - removed post = Eve-search post #1232 ( Carniflex)
2016-09-06 10:56:19 - EF post #1224 = ES post #1233 (Rogasus Hakuli)
2016.09.06 11:36:49 - EF post #1225 = ES post #1234 (Naomi Felclaw)
2016-09-06 11:44:37 - EF post #1226 = ES post #1235 (March rabbit)
2016.09.06 12:55:26 - removed post = ES post #1236 (Carniflex)
2016.09.06 13:15:45 - removed post = ES post #1237 (posted by Daylan Vokan - quoting post #1236)
2016.09.06 13:25:15 - removed post = ES post #1238 (posted by Carniflex - quoting #1236 & # 1237)
2016.09.06 13:43:04 - removed post = ES post #1239 (by Daylan Vokan)
2016-09-06 14:12:33 - EF post #1227 = ES post #1240 (by Daylan Vokan)
2016.09.06 14:23:22 - removed post = ES post #1241 (by Carniflex)
2016-09-06 14:26:27 - EF post #1228 = ES post #1242 (Carniflex)
2016.09.06 14:33:35 - EF post #1229 = ES post #1243 (Daylan Vokan)
2016.09.06 15:04:57 - removed post = ES post #1244 2016.09.06 15:04:57 (Jessica Starblaze)
2016.09.06 15:37:39 - removed post = ES post #1245 2016.09.06 15:37:39 (Daylan Vokan)
2016-09-06 16:01:37 - EF post #1230 = ES post #1246 (March rabbit)
.....
And it keeps going like that. Now tell me that does not look like posts being removed selectively. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 10:54:08 -
[1294] - Quote
Well - seems like the 2 pages of discussion has been truly lost from this thread without a trace (other than eve search). Lets see if it vanishes again if I repost the summary of it. I will not speculate in these posts if the previous ones going missing were deliberate act or not.
These posts are, in essence a follow up for posts #1063, #1064 and #1065 in the present thread where in a nutshell I was arguing in favor of giving Alphas only access to T1 frigates but without skill caps as opposed to the current plan in the devblog where the access is up to cruiser size T1 hulls with racial lock and significant level caps on accessible skills.
The numbers: - the "75 mil SP ballpark" is a theoretical unrestricted Alpha with every single skill at level 5 that is even remotely relevant to flying a frigate sized hull with T2 fit except cyno, cloak and e-war skills except point. Without racial restriction so all 4 races trained to the max.
In that scenario the SP distribution would be roughly following: Armor - 4,86 mil SP Drones - 12,54 mil SP Electronic Systems - 0,8 mil SP Engineering - 6,54 mil SP Gunnery - 9,86 mil SP Missiles - 7,65 mil SP Navigation - 4,1 mil SP Rigging - 7,42 mil SP Scanning - 7,2 mil SP Shields - 5,55 mil SP Spaceship command - 2,8 mil SP Targeting - 3,8 mil SP
Total - 73,14 mil SP.
Rounded up to 75 mil SP to account some prerequisites and skills not relevant to flying a frigate sized hull, like Science 4, etc. Adding larger hulls, if deemed necessary somewhere down the road would not change the total SP significantly as it is basically the full list that is relevant for flying a subcapital ship. Just throw in medium guns and drones if adding cruisers and thats it.
I'll leave this time aside the arguments about "fairness" (as the philosophical deliberations on the pay-to-win vs free-to-play are already well discussed in the remaining thread) and focus on technical details and problems pointed in the lost two pages of discussion.
(1) Why would anyone subscribe at all if he could use a 75 mil SP Alpha clone? Having max relevant skills for a T1 frigate hull would still leave in place quite significant restrictions on the pilot capabilities and roles he/she can fulfill. There would be basically no access to industry other than very basic capabilities, no access to large number of market orders or contracts and above all even in the "frigate" niche there would be still quite a number of things worthy of subscription - most prominent among these ofc the T2 hulls and cloaks. For mining - barges are still a LOT better than even a max skilled venture could be (approx 500 m3/min vs 1000+ m3/minute for barge). For exploration - T2 hulls are still significantly enough better at probing. That said the Alphas would be still within spitting distance of Omegas by having a possibility of paying the premium for pirate/faction hulls to compete with T2 ships in the frigate specific content.
(2) SP "farming" and extractors. In thew original discussion which was lost there was no solution offered for that point before these two last pages vanished. My solution - if technically feasible - would be to keep track of what amount of SP has been trained in Alpha state for a specific skill and not allow extraction of SP that has been accumulated during free-to-play periods. For example, Alpha clone has trained "Advanced Weapon Upgrades" up to 200 000 SP. Sometime later when in Omega state he has trained the skill up to level 5 but has decided that he does not need that skill after all and wants to cash out the SP invested in that skill. However, when using the extractor on that skill he can drop it as low as 200 000 SP and not an SP more, because that is the amount that has been trained in "free to play" regime. If keeping track of "free" SP on a individual skill basis is technically not feasible a bit simpler solution would be just to keep track of character total SP which has been added wile the clone is in Alpha state and not allow skill extraction to drop the character under that SP level. Another possibility to make it more inconvenient to "farm" SP on alpha accounts would be adding a requirement that any skill in the skill que must start during the next 24h, meaning that one can not just throw in 5 year training plan but has to remember to log in every once in a while to start another skill.
(3) Injectors and Alphas. Current Alphas as proposed can use them and I honestly do not see a problem if the "unrestricted" Alphas could as well. Every time a injector is extracted CCP gets its cut as somewhere, someone, has spent the real money to make that possible. Yes, that would mean that a fresh dude could push his character up to approx 75 mil and play free forever if he is happy with T1 frigate specific content and the restrictions do not bother him. I am not particularly worried about the servers capability to take the load, to be honest. EVE is huge and we are quite far from the record numbers we have seen in the past simultaneously logged in. That kind of pilots would be minority - probably most of them would be anyway high SP Omegas that have dropped into Alpha state for time being. I.e, they would have already spent about 600 $/EUR on the game to be sitting on that amount of SP assuming quite focused build specific for flying sub-capitals at max level.
to be continued ...
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 10:55:15 -
[1295] - Quote
... continiued
(4) Training speed. Alphas have reduced base training rate even in the current proposal and I honestly do not have issue with that. thanx to the EVE market a fresh Alpha can, in theory, catch up with older pilots SP wise without spending real money by grinding up and buying injectors. Similar point could be made about the fact that most of the ship hulls in EVE would be locked for the Alphas - in theory they could grind out enough for a PLEX and unlock all the possible hulls in the game for themselves without spending the real life money in person. In my opinion the most optimal training speed model would be linear training speed pentaly as a function of SP starting at 100% speed at 400 000 SP and reaching 25% training speed at 30 mil SP. The exact numbers and turning points are not as important but that would make it possible to train the basic skills at relatively good speeds while significantly delaying the capability of Alpha to reach the max theoretical SP cap without doing something that gives CCP some income. By the 30 mil SP when the training speed would be about quarter of an Omega account the injectors should be looking quite lucrative for the free-to-play Alpha account for taking the standard free-to-play style shortcut by changing their grind for the money someone else has spent to create that injector.
(5) Why only frigates? Would it not be worse than having access to the heavily restricted cruisers as it is in the current plan by CCP? My argument is that over the recent years CCP has fleshed out the frigate specific content quite well - there are frigate specifc PvP options (FW, frig wormholes, etc) and well as PvE (smaller anoms, L4 burners, frig wormholes, etc). Many of these have specific restrictions that prevent larger hulls come and ruin the party giving the free players a specific niche where they can feel they can be the best (potentially) even as a free to play account. Yes - no T2 hulls and excluding of some modules gives a certain disadvantages but by spending more resources the can attain the similar power levels by using pirate hulls and shinier fits. The key reason for such a heavy restrictions - as far as I understand CCP argument - is to avoid potential shocks in EVE economy. In my opinion starting with with only frigates (but without fitting handicaps present in the original devblog) would be as safe, in essence, as with handicapped cruisers if not even a bit safer. Only existing Omegas would have, in essence, the "full" SP Alphas at the start while the rest of new Alphas would start at rather modest power levels - at the higher end an unrestricted pirate frigate with pimp fit has comparable dps to the restricted cruiser hulls. That would give CCP more time to monitor the change and unlock the larger hulls when deemed that the situation is safe enough for that. In addition what it would allow them to do, in essence, would be sending all the Alphas that did try it but went away for whatever reason an e-mail telling them that oh look wow, we added larger hull to the Alpha access roster! Possibly motivating them to log in again and try EVE again.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
MrQuisno
SteelandFire Blacksmithing
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 13:19:48 -
[1296] - Quote
To not have the system get abused from lots of alts being made up. Their should be a one time charge for all new accounts made. Also the alpha state clones should not be allowed on the test server. Limit the log on mount to 2 accounts only. :) |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 13:29:51 -
[1297] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:... continiued
(4) Training speed. Alphas have reduced base training rate even in the current proposal and I honestly do not have issue with that. thanx to the EVE market a fresh Alpha can, in theory, catch up with older pilots SP wise without spending real money by grinding up and buying injectors. Similar point could be made about the fact that most of the ship hulls in EVE would be locked for the Alphas - in theory they could grind out enough for a PLEX and unlock all the possible hulls in the game for themselves without spending the real life money in person. In my opinion the most optimal training speed model would be linear training speed pentaly as a function of SP starting at 100% speed at 400 000 SP and reaching 25% training speed at 30 mil SP. The exact numbers and turning points are not as important but that would make it possible to train the basic skills at relatively good speeds while significantly delaying the capability of Alpha to reach the max theoretical SP cap without doing something that gives CCP some income. By the 30 mil SP when the training speed would be about quarter of an Omega account the injectors should be looking quite lucrative for the free-to-play Alpha account for taking the standard free-to-play style shortcut by changing their grind for the money someone else has spent to create that injector.
(5) Why only frigates? Would it not be worse than having access to the heavily restricted cruisers as it is in the current plan by CCP? My argument is that over the recent years CCP has fleshed out the frigate specific content quite well - there are frigate specifc PvP options (FW, frig wormholes, etc) and well as PvE (smaller anoms, L4 burners, frig wormholes, etc). Many of these have specific restrictions that prevent larger hulls come and ruin the party giving the free players a specific niche where they can feel they can be the best (potentially) even as a free to play account. Yes - no T2 hulls and excluding of some modules gives a certain disadvantages but by spending more resources the can attain the similar power levels by using pirate hulls and shinier fits. The key reason for such a heavy restrictions - as far as I understand CCP argument - is to avoid potential shocks in EVE economy. In my opinion starting with with only frigates (but without fitting handicaps present in the original devblog) would be as safe, in essence, as with handicapped cruisers if not even a bit safer. Only existing Omegas would have, in essence, the "full" SP Alphas at the start while the rest of new Alphas would start at rather modest power levels - at the higher end an unrestricted pirate frigate with pimp fit has comparable dps to the restricted cruiser hulls. That would give CCP more time to monitor the change and unlock the larger hulls when deemed that the situation is safe enough for that. In addition what it would allow them to do, in essence, would be sending all the Alphas that did try it but went away for whatever reason an e-mail telling them that oh look wow, we added larger hull to the Alpha access roster! Possibly motivating them to log in again and try EVE again. I see flocks of Worms on the horizon in this, granted you dont know the limiting of speed in training at present but even at current rates it only takes either a solid 4 months to achieve so say its 6 months with alphas, or a returning players dropping to alpha status.
This is done very quickly: 3x rocket launcher II with Scourge rage Fed navy AB CN Med shield ext Stasis and scram II DCU II FN DDA
CDFE II Anti EM II Anti Therm II
Augmented Drones 330+ dps drop the DCU II and one of the mid slot utilities for another FN DDA cranked it upto 355 DPS Small fleet of these say 12 you could drop so many of the drones for EC 300's and your still cranking out over 3600 DPS or keep all drone combat for a healthy 4200 DPS.
You think this wont be a problem. |
Anthar Thebess
1632
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 13:41:26 -
[1298] - Quote
How people can abuse alfa clones in WH : Plan is simple, put alfa clone in every WH and be able to monitor activity in this WH. Now it is not about putting every WH we got, but people want to do it for all profitable. C5-C6
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|
Mikka johna Caboose
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 14:35:23 -
[1299] - Quote
Don't know if this as come up but what happens if say your in a stealth bomber in wormhole space and you go to alpha clone status I've a friend that is potentially in that situation |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 14:48:19 -
[1300] - Quote
Mikka johna Caboose wrote:Don't know if this as come up but what happens if say your in a stealth bomber in wormhole space and you go to alpha clone status I've a friend that is potentially in that situation Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?
A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session. |
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 15:30:48 -
[1301] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote: I see flocks of Worms on the horizon in this, granted you dont know the limiting of speed in training at present but even at current rates it only takes either a solid 4 months to achieve so say its 6 months with alphas, or a returning players dropping to alpha status.
This is done very quickly: 3x rocket launcher II with Scourge rage Fed navy AB CN Med shield ext Stasis and scram II DCU II FN DDA
CDFE II Anti EM II Anti Therm II
Augmented Drones 330+ dps drop the DCU II and one of the mid slot utilities for another FN DDA cranked it upto 355 DPS Small fleet of these say 12 you could drop so many of the drones for EC 300's and your still cranking out over 3600 DPS or keep all drone combat for a healthy 4200 DPS.
Speed 1100ms 9-11k ehp Easy to switch damaged types.
You think this wont be a problem.
Yes. That would indeed be a possibility and I personally do not see a huge problem with that for following reasons: (1) high price - while I do not consider price a balancing factor (and neither do devs as far as I have seen) it is also not irrelevant thing either in everyday life of EVE, (2) the numbers are comparable to the current very restricted Alpha capabilities with the cruisers, (3) the setup has vulnerabilities which can be used to counter it with similar numbers but a bit cheaper fits for the pvp purposes, most notable ofc the ability to kill some drones and/or severy limit their effectivity by outrunning the worms and/or its drones, (4) if talking about my initial three post wall of text proposal specifically these worms would be unable to assign drones so it is not possible to easily abuse that swarm by running multiple clients simultaneously and have one or two "triggers" directing all that dps in half automated way. Ofc my initial proposal also consisted a suggestion to limit Alphas to max two simultaneous accounts logged in at the same time, if technically feasible. As far as I understand the dev answers here and elsewhere there might be some technical difficulties with that one though.
Actually this example worm fit is a very good example, in my opinion, why an unrestricted T1 frigate limited Alpha would be OK. It is actually competitive with T2 AF fits in some scenarios which is exactly one of the points I have been driving for. An AF fit that is comparable in its capabilities is somewhat cheaper than the reasonably pimp pirate hull, meaning that the Omega has advantage - because he has to grind for less time for achieving that than Alpha but Alpha can get close enough to have a good possibility of winning the engagement just at the greater time (grind) investment.
I believe such a worm fit would be fun to fly for Alphas. They would win some engagements, there is a significant amount of grind-time on line for them so they would probably get pretty good adrenaline rush out of it and if that is what they are after they would get hooked in EVE. A fast combat with small ships is one of the best things the EVE can offer for a pilot trying out EVE. There is A LOT of pilot individual skill involved, meaning a lot of potential to "git guud", the pilot can in general pick his/her engagements and is slippery enough to escape if Omegas bring overwhelming force while the setup has enough bite to punish anyone who thinks "lol its just dozen frigates".
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 15:45:46 -
[1302] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: I see flocks of Worms on the horizon in this, granted you dont know the limiting of speed in training at present but even at current rates it only takes either a solid 4 months to achieve so say its 6 months with alphas, or a returning players dropping to alpha status.
This is done very quickly: 3x rocket launcher II with Scourge rage Fed navy AB CN Med shield ext Stasis and scram II DCU II FN DDA
CDFE II Anti EM II Anti Therm II
Augmented Drones 330+ dps drop the DCU II and one of the mid slot utilities for another FN DDA cranked it upto 355 DPS Small fleet of these say 12 you could drop so many of the drones for EC 300's and your still cranking out over 3600 DPS or keep all drone combat for a healthy 4200 DPS.
Speed 1100ms 9-11k ehp Easy to switch damaged types.
You think this wont be a problem.
Yes. That would indeed be a possibility and I personally do not see a huge problem with that for following reasons: (1) high price - while I do not consider price a balancing factor (and neither do devs as far as I have seen) it is also not irrelevant thing either in everyday life of EVE, (2) the numbers are comparable to the current very restricted Alpha capabilities with the cruisers, (3) the setup has vulnerabilities which can be used to counter it with similar numbers but a bit cheaper fits for the pvp purposes, most notable ofc the ability to kill some drones and/or severy limit their effectivity by outrunning the worms and/or its drones, (4) if talking about my initial three post wall of text proposal specifically these worms would be unable to assign drones so it is not possible to easily abuse that swarm by running multiple clients simultaneously and have one or two "triggers" directing all that dps in half automated way. Ofc my initial proposal also consisted a suggestion to limit Alphas to max two simultaneous accounts logged in at the same time, if technically feasible. As far as I understand the dev answers here and elsewhere there might be some technical difficulties with that one though. Actually this example worm fit is a very good example, in my opinion, why an unrestricted T1 frigate limited Alpha would be OK. It is actually competitive with T2 AF fits in some scenarios which is exactly one of the points I have been driving for. An AF fit that is comparable in its capabilities is somewhat cheaper than the reasonably pimp pirate hull, meaning that the Omega has advantage - because he has to grind for less time for achieving that than Alpha but Alpha can get close enough to have a good possibility of winning the engagement just at the greater time (grind) investment. I believe such a worm fit would be fun to fly for Alphas. They would win some engagements, there is a significant amount of grind-time on line for them so they would probably get pretty good adrenaline rush out of it and if that is what they are after they would get hooked in EVE. A fast combat with small ships is one of the best things the EVE can offer for a pilot trying out EVE. There is A LOT of pilot individual skill involved, meaning a lot of potential to "git guud", the pilot can in general pick his/her engagements and is slippery enough to escape if Omegas bring overwhelming force while the setup has enough bite to punish anyone who thinks "lol its just dozen frigates". I agree, its my worm fit almost ( i like deadspace kit though) or ishkurs, my point is that those worm pilots and i dont mean multiple accounts of 1 or 2 users i was referring to single people controlling them is all free, there is no need to sub to use them. Ive been playing for 11 years and ive never even used a capital ship. You got to find a happy medium but i think you have gone to far. I could unsub a few of my accounts and have just as much fun as i do subbed.
Imagine doing a roam with 15 people 12 worm pilots free and 3 paying - 2 logi cruisers and a ecm boat. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 16:10:12 -
[1303] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote: I agree, its my worm fit almost ( i like deadspace kit though) or ishkurs, my point is that those worm pilots and i dont mean multiple accounts of 1 or 2 users i was referring to single people controlling them is all free, there is no need to sub to use them. Ive been playing for 11 years and ive never even used a capital ship. You got to find a happy medium but i think you have gone to far. I could unsub a few of my accounts and have just as much fun as i do subbed.
Imagine doing a roam with 15 people 12 worm pilots free and 3 paying - 2 logi cruisers and a ecm boat.
Yes. The reason why I believe this would be fine is that in my opinion the theoretical possibility of reaching such levels would draw in more fresh players than the number of current Omegas un-subbing because they could have as much fun as they currently do if the T1 frigates could be piloted, in essence, unrestricted. The core point of my entire proposal is that being able to have "as much fun" as Omega can in a given niche (which is a frigate specific content in EVE) is better for player retention and for luring in new players than the current heavily limited hulls up to cruiser size with a racial lock for a character starter race.
Such a theoretical 15 man roam would be an outstanding success of the whole system!
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 16:29:03 -
[1304] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote: I agree, its my worm fit almost ( i like deadspace kit though) or ishkurs, my point is that those worm pilots and i dont mean multiple accounts of 1 or 2 users i was referring to single people controlling them is all free, there is no need to sub to use them. Ive been playing for 11 years and ive never even used a capital ship. You got to find a happy medium but i think you have gone to far. I could unsub a few of my accounts and have just as much fun as i do subbed.
Imagine doing a roam with 15 people 12 worm pilots free and 3 paying - 2 logi cruisers and a ecm boat.
Yes. The reason why I believe this would be fine is that in my opinion the theoretical possibility of reaching such levels would draw in more fresh players than the number of current Omegas un-subbing because they could have as much fun as they currently do if the T1 frigates could be piloted, in essence, unrestricted. The core point of my entire proposal is that being able to have "as much fun" as Omega can in a given niche (which is a frigate specific content in EVE) is better for player retention and for luring in new players than the current heavily limited hulls up to cruiser size with a racial lock for a character starter race. Such a theoretical 15 man roam would be an outstanding success of the whole system! We seem to be poles apart on how to allure new players into subbing here, the discussion was fun though |
Josef Djugashvilis
3454
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 18:20:05 -
[1305] - Quote
Cash for skills was mainly used by vets to dump unwanted skill points and did not lead to any great influx of new players, perhaps the idea of paying a sub then needing to fork out extra cash for skills did not have that much appeal to new players.
Who'd a thunk it?
If cash for skills had been successful CCP would not be offering this ham-strung version of 'free to play'
If 'inadequate' skill points are seen as the main sticking point for new players who want to experience all that that the game has to offer, then why not take the radical step of giving all players all the skill points?
This would change the game from a 'time-cash-sink' into one where player ingenuity is the primary skill.
We are on that slippery slope anyway, so for Pete's sake just get on with it.
The constant whittling away of the original game ethos is just annoying.
CCP cut to the end game and just do it!
This is not a signature.
|
Hiro Mune
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 20:10:52 -
[1306] - Quote
So essentially:
You can't explore; no cloaking You can't PVP; no tech 2 weaponry PVE will be limited Null sec and low sec will be impossible to go into...
Might as well stick with the subscription to actually enjoy the game! |
Mikka johna Caboose
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 21:09:38 -
[1307] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Mikka johna Caboose wrote:Don't know if this as come up but what happens if say your in a stealth bomber in wormhole space and you go to alpha clone status I've a friend that is potentially in that situation Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight? A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.
Thanks much appreciated |
Onkel Fysen
Celestial Tranquility
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 21:39:36 -
[1308] - Quote
I surely welcome a F2P-model in EVE like this to expand the playerbase, but please don't allow multiboxing at all. Multiboxing is the most damaging problem to the PVP model in this game already. The PVP-model is heart-racing as it is without everyone having to multibox to take part in small gang PVP. |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
152
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 22:27:03 -
[1309] - Quote
Hiro Mune wrote:So essentially:
You can't explore; no cloaking You can't PVP; no tech 2 weaponry PVE will be limited Null sec and low sec will be impossible to go into...
Might as well stick with the subscription to actually enjoy the game!
Yea it's basically current trial with more constraints and without time limit. For genuinly new players it's probably nice, for anyone else ... yea (putting aside all potential multiboxing / free alts issues aside ...).
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 03:52:29 -
[1310] - Quote
Soltys wrote:Hiro Mune wrote:So essentially:
You can't explore; no cloaking You can't PVP; no tech 2 weaponry PVE will be limited Null sec and low sec will be impossible to go into...
Might as well stick with the subscription to actually enjoy the game! Yea it's basically current trial with more constraints and without time limit. For genuinly new players it's probably nice, for anyone else ... yea (putting aside all potential multiboxing / free alts issues aside ...).
Current subscribers would find uses for Alphas even if all they could do would be flying a shuttle and talking in local ;)
I just do not believe that what is currently on table for Alphas makes the genuinely fresh pilots to stay much longer than the longest done trials would (I.e., a bit above 50 days). At the very minimum the racial restriction should be lifted. Or CCP should make it crystal clear in the beginning that a pilot should roll 4 parallel Alpha accounts - one for each race. Because otherwise I believe there would be non-neglible number of fresh guys joining - figuring out that they would want to fly some other race few weeks down the road and going "screw this, I'm not gonna wait for another 2 weeks for these basic essential skills again to be able to do what I already do"
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5215
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 04:35:45 -
[1311] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Soltys wrote:Hiro Mune wrote:So essentially:
You can't explore; no cloaking You can't PVP; no tech 2 weaponry PVE will be limited Null sec and low sec will be impossible to go into...
Might as well stick with the subscription to actually enjoy the game! Yea it's basically current trial with more constraints and without time limit. For genuinly new players it's probably nice, for anyone else ... yea (putting aside all potential multiboxing / free alts issues aside ...). Current subscribers would find uses for Alphas even if all they could do would be flying a shuttle and talking in local ;) I just do not believe that what is currently on table for Alphas makes the genuinely fresh pilots to stay much longer than the longest done trials would (I.e., a bit above 50 days). At the very minimum the racial restriction should be lifted. Or CCP should make it crystal clear in the beginning that a pilot should roll 4 parallel Alpha accounts - one for each race. Because otherwise I believe there would be non-neglible number of fresh guys joining - figuring out that they would want to fly some other race few weeks down the road and going "screw this, I'm not gonna wait for another 2 weeks for these basic essential skills again to be able to do what I already do"
What the Hell, they can always sub too ya know.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
MrQuisno
SteelandFire Blacksmithing
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 05:06:37 -
[1312] - Quote
The idea is great here! But their should be a one time set up fee for all new accounts made. If you want to run about with more then 2 free accounts you should have to pay a extra pilot license. |
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 07:16:28 -
[1313] - Quote
Hiro Mune wrote:So essentially:
You can't explore; no cloaking You can't PVP; no tech 2 weaponry PVE will be limited Null sec and low sec will be impossible to go into...
Might as well stick with the subscription to actually enjoy the game!
So according to you the first 6 months you subscribe now you can't do much as you dont have the skills, access to the right modules and standing to do anything worth while, must be sad that the only way you can to anything is in an officer fit faction hull |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
202
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 07:28:55 -
[1314] - Quote
It's telling that there are 2 dev-Blog in a row. Alpha/Omega and the end of exe-login. If there is no exe-login you can easily restrict a comp to JUST launch an Alpha and nothing else. This wouldn't hamper new players in any way and kill tons of abuses by vets. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2836
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 07:54:24 -
[1315] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:It's telling that there are 2 dev-Blog in a row. Alpha/Omega and the end of exe-login. If there is no exe-login you can easily restrict a comp to JUST launch an Alpha and nothing else. This wouldn't hamper new players in any way and kill tons of abuses by vets. People use multiple PCs (physical or virtual). They need to do more (if possible) ... the "it is possible with trials today argument" is void here, because Alphas don't expire and are much more valuable to rectify the effort.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1886
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 09:52:04 -
[1316] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:March rabbit wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So...you place a bounty on me, right? What is to stop me (the player) from having my alt scan my character's ship, shoot me and collect the bounty? What about system where bounty owner has to manually approve each payment? Let's say i put bounty on someone. This sets flag (visible to anyone). Then when somebody presses the button and kills the target i get notification with killmail. Then i enter amount and press button and send ISK or don't. And let's say people can see history of bounty contracts created by me (it can be made anonymous but linked to the character) with information about every bounty contract offered and killmails paid or not. This allows me to check whether killmail looks legit or not. At least i can try to detect usage of alt. This gives possible contractor to check whether previous bounties were paid or not and decide if kill worth effort. Additionally this gives some protection from overinflated module/ship prices and gives overall control over the system to players. I see killmail value but i always can check real market price and set bounty accordingly. And if i'm greedy then in future i can find none of my contracts taken. Thoughts? So, I as an actual bounty hunter can expect to get screwed on a regular basis. If you blindly take any bounty contract yes, you will end like any client of ISK doublers. However system provides you with some means to protect yourself. And it provides owner of bounty contract with some means to protect himself from alt-killing too.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 09:58:49 -
[1317] - Quote
Carniflex wrote: CCP should make it crystal clear in the beginning that a pilot should roll 4 parallel Alpha accounts - one for each race. Because otherwise I believe there would be non-neglible number of fresh guys joining - figuring out that they would want to fly some other race few weeks down the road and going "screw this, I'm not gonna wait for another 2 weeks for these basic essential skills again to be able to do what I already do" Or they think wow this is cool, If i sub i get access to everything and those shiny faction hulls to, You know the way it's designed to work to lure people in.
Doesn't matter how you try and not sugar coat something, Its designed for new players and not to entice already subbed to add copious amounts of alts in game. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1886
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 11:28:25 -
[1318] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:What the Hell, they can always sub too ya know. They cannot (that's the main selling point of whole Alpha idea). Else we would not have this discussion.
Daylan Vokan wrote:Hiro Mune wrote:So essentially:
You can't explore; no cloaking You can't PVP; no tech 2 weaponry PVE will be limited Null sec and low sec will be impossible to go into...
Might as well stick with the subscription to actually enjoy the game! So according to you the first 6 months you subscribe now you can't do much as you dont have the skills, access to the right modules and standing to do anything worth while, must be sad that the only way you can to anything is in an officer fit faction hull Well.. It's CCP who removed learning skills (and set SP accumulation to maximum speed for everyone), it's CCP who increased training speed for starters, it's CCP who increased basic SP amount for starters, it's CCP who created special implants for starters....
Do you really think it was done because 'player can play right from the start' and not 'sit and wait for SPs'?
AFAIK it is general idea between CCP and players these days that the game is 'literally unplayable' without lots of SP.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Egsise
POS Party Ember Sands
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 14:11:01 -
[1319] - Quote
I remember when I started Eve I knew it takes years to train the skills. That was actually the biggest reason I started Eve, I wanted to play a game that isn't over in six months like majority of games today. When I ask why someone doesn't play Eve is that they worry that it takes 25 years to train everything to max level, and they could never catch those who have started earlier.
Most new players don't understand that the reason why they can't do mission X or win that pvp fight is that they don't have corpmates who fly with them, not the lack of skills.
I'm not sure if this is covered so here's my opinion about multiboxing. I think you should not be allowed to log in more than one alpha clone at the time. The alpha clone is targeted to new players and they need to learn that if they need more than one ship, well they need friends then not multiple accounts what they use to solo for six months and then quit Eve because it's boring.
If an old player with multiple accounts wants to look what Eve is now, well he doesn't need more than one account at the time for that or to sell assets to plex or just to chat with old corpmates.
You shouldn't be allowed to log in an alpha clone with omega clone(s). You are not allowed to do it with trial accounts either. |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 18:58:18 -
[1320] - Quote
Egsise wrote:I remember when I started Eve I knew it takes years to train the skills. That was actually the biggest reason I started Eve, I wanted to play a game that isn't over in six months like majority of games today. When I ask why someone doesn't play Eve is that they worry that it takes 25 years to train everything to max level, and they could never catch those who have started earlier.
Most new players don't understand that the reason why they can't do mission X or win that pvp fight is that they don't have corpmates who fly with them, not the lack of skills.
I'm not sure if this is covered so here's my opinion about multiboxing. I think you should not be allowed to log in more than one alpha clone at the time. The alpha clone is targeted to new players and they need to learn that if they need more than one ship, well they need friends then not multiple accounts what they use to solo for six months and then quit Eve because it's boring.
If an old player with multiple accounts wants to look what Eve is now, well he doesn't need more than one account at the time for that or to sell assets to plex or just to chat with old corpmates.
You shouldn't be allowed to log in an alpha clone with omega clone(s). You are not allowed to do it with trial accounts either.
I'll reiterate something, maybe it'll get an answer...
I own 4 accounts (3 are playing accounts)
If I decide to let 2 lapse into an Alpha state, why EXACTLY shouldn't I be able to log them on along with the remaining Omega account(s) which I own and have subbed for over 4 years?
Stopping a player logging on his/her accounts however they like is just stupid. Any present player should be able to take advantage of f2p if he/she needs to without that restriction.
|
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5222
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 20:11:40 -
[1321] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:Egsise wrote:I remember when I started Eve I knew it takes years to train the skills. That was actually the biggest reason I started Eve, I wanted to play a game that isn't over in six months like majority of games today. When I ask why someone doesn't play Eve is that they worry that it takes 25 years to train everything to max level, and they could never catch those who have started earlier.
Most new players don't understand that the reason why they can't do mission X or win that pvp fight is that they don't have corpmates who fly with them, not the lack of skills.
I'm not sure if this is covered so here's my opinion about multiboxing. I think you should not be allowed to log in more than one alpha clone at the time. The alpha clone is targeted to new players and they need to learn that if they need more than one ship, well they need friends then not multiple accounts what they use to solo for six months and then quit Eve because it's boring.
If an old player with multiple accounts wants to look what Eve is now, well he doesn't need more than one account at the time for that or to sell assets to plex or just to chat with old corpmates.
You shouldn't be allowed to log in an alpha clone with omega clone(s). You are not allowed to do it with trial accounts either. I'll reiterate something, maybe it'll get an answer... I own 4 accounts (3 are playing accounts) If I decide to let 2 lapse into an Alpha state, why EXACTLY shouldn't I be able to log them on along with the remaining Omega account(s) which I own and have subbed for over 4 years? Stopping a player logging on his/her accounts however they like is just stupid. Any present player should be able to take advantage of f2p if he/she needs to without that restriction.
Well, the technical aspects of this might be impossible...but from a theory stand point....
Limit it to 1 Alpha acount or
1 Alpha account/Omega Account?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 20:29:51 -
[1322] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Ginger Naari wrote:Egsise wrote:I remember when I started Eve I knew it takes years to train the skills. That was actually the biggest reason I started Eve, I wanted to play a game that isn't over in six months like majority of games today. When I ask why someone doesn't play Eve is that they worry that it takes 25 years to train everything to max level, and they could never catch those who have started earlier.
Most new players don't understand that the reason why they can't do mission X or win that pvp fight is that they don't have corpmates who fly with them, not the lack of skills.
I'm not sure if this is covered so here's my opinion about multiboxing. I think you should not be allowed to log in more than one alpha clone at the time. The alpha clone is targeted to new players and they need to learn that if they need more than one ship, well they need friends then not multiple accounts what they use to solo for six months and then quit Eve because it's boring.
If an old player with multiple accounts wants to look what Eve is now, well he doesn't need more than one account at the time for that or to sell assets to plex or just to chat with old corpmates.
You shouldn't be allowed to log in an alpha clone with omega clone(s). You are not allowed to do it with trial accounts either. I'll reiterate something, maybe it'll get an answer... I own 4 accounts (3 are playing accounts) If I decide to let 2 lapse into an Alpha state, why EXACTLY shouldn't I be able to log them on along with the remaining Omega account(s) which I own and have subbed for over 4 years? Stopping a player logging on his/her accounts however they like is just stupid. Any present player should be able to take advantage of f2p if he/she needs to without that restriction. Well, the technical aspects of this might be impossible...but from a theory stand point.... Limit it to 1 Alpha acount or 1 Alpha account/Omega Account?
What if CCP made a snapshot of the server from, say, the day before the announcement. That then becomes the number of accounts mixed between Alpha and Omega you can log on at any one time? |
Rin Aiko
CVT IND
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 20:36:05 -
[1323] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:Egsise wrote:I remember when I started Eve I knew it takes years to train the skills. That was actually the biggest reason I started Eve, I wanted to play a game that isn't over in six months like majority of games today. When I ask why someone doesn't play Eve is that they worry that it takes 25 years to train everything to max level, and they could never catch those who have started earlier.
Most new players don't understand that the reason why they can't do mission X or win that pvp fight is that they don't have corpmates who fly with them, not the lack of skills.
I'm not sure if this is covered so here's my opinion about multiboxing. I think you should not be allowed to log in more than one alpha clone at the time. The alpha clone is targeted to new players and they need to learn that if they need more than one ship, well they need friends then not multiple accounts what they use to solo for six months and then quit Eve because it's boring.
If an old player with multiple accounts wants to look what Eve is now, well he doesn't need more than one account at the time for that or to sell assets to plex or just to chat with old corpmates.
You shouldn't be allowed to log in an alpha clone with omega clone(s). You are not allowed to do it with trial accounts either. I'll reiterate something, maybe it'll get an answer... I own 4 accounts (3 are playing accounts) If I decide to let 2 lapse into an Alpha state, why EXACTLY shouldn't I be able to log them on along with the remaining Omega account(s) which I own and have subbed for over 4 years? Stopping a player logging on his/her accounts however they like is just stupid. Any present player should be able to take advantage of f2p if he/she needs to without that restriction.
I will answer. Ccp needs to make money.
This is designed to attract new players not for vets to unsub alt accounts.
@ccp - hope you know that if there is no limit to alpha log ins you will have a lot of accounts unsub. You will amywAy but it will be worse if no limit is in place. I have spoken to many guys who are talking just going alpha even on mains.
Guess we will see |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5225
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 21:00:38 -
[1324] - Quote
Rin Aiko wrote:
I will answer. Ccp needs to make money.
This is designed to attract new players not for vets to unsub alt accounts.
@ccp - hope you know that if there is no limit to alpha log ins you will have a lot of accounts unsub. You will amywAy but it will be worse if no limit is in place. I have spoken to many guys who are talking just going alpha even on mains.
Guess we will see
Why on earth would they do that? Unsub their mains that is.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 21:05:21 -
[1325] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Rin Aiko wrote:
I will answer. Ccp needs to make money.
This is designed to attract new players not for vets to unsub alt accounts.
@ccp - hope you know that if there is no limit to alpha log ins you will have a lot of accounts unsub. You will amywAy but it will be worse if no limit is in place. I have spoken to many guys who are talking just going alpha even on mains.
Guess we will see
Why on earth would they do that? Unsub their mains that is.
I was thinking the same thing..
As for me, I was speaking theoretically about a couple going Alpha and the possibilities.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5225
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 21:12:18 -
[1326] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Rin Aiko wrote:
I will answer. Ccp needs to make money.
This is designed to attract new players not for vets to unsub alt accounts.
@ccp - hope you know that if there is no limit to alpha log ins you will have a lot of accounts unsub. You will amywAy but it will be worse if no limit is in place. I have spoken to many guys who are talking just going alpha even on mains.
Guess we will see
Why on earth would they do that? Unsub their mains that is. I was thinking the same thing.. As for me, I was speaking theoretically about a couple going Alpha and the possibilities.
They are aware they will literally become Alpha clones. All the SP outside the Alpha clone SP will no longer be "active"--i.e. they they'll be limited to T1 frigates and cruisers and T1 modules by and large.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
744
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 22:06:38 -
[1327] - Quote
Ginger Naari wrote: What if CCP made a snapshot of the server from, say, the day before the announcement. That then becomes the number of accounts mixed between Alpha and Omega you can log on at any one time?
Sounds like "what if we gave some happy few high-profile industrialists T2 BPOs" to me. There would be no reasonable explanation to give players in a year or two. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 05:29:21 -
[1328] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: They are aware they will literally become Alpha clones. All the SP outside the Alpha clone SP will no longer be "active"--i.e. they they'll be limited to T1 frigates and cruisers and T1 modules by and large.
Current Alphas can fit (but just barely) most T2 modules. They just do not have access to T2 guns/drones which is quite significant handicap even on T1 hulls.
Stats wise the Alpha fits will not be even in the same ballpark as subscribers similar fits would be. An Omen example fit I did earlier in this thread for comparison had approx 20% more dps at about 400% of the range, approx 20% more hp buffer, capacitor life, significantly better capabilities of applying that dps (drone speed, tracking, optimal, etc) and approx 20% better subspace speed. Which is not surprising at all considering the comparison is, in essence, between a 5 mil SP pilot and approx 80 mil SP pilot.
A bit too large gap to bridge if pilots of roughly equal skill (in non SP sense) happen to meet. That is before one considers that subscriber has access to T2, T3 and pirate hulls and Alphas do not.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
746
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 05:37:56 -
[1329] - Quote
Can't give them the same stats. Where's the carrot? |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
379
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 13:27:25 -
[1330] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Can't give them the same stats. Where's the carrot?
T2/T3 hulls, anything up from cruiser size, barges, freighters, cloak, cyno, industry, market, capitals, full training speed ... and the list goes on. Plenty of carrots, cucumbers and anything in-between there.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
|
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3514
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 14:07:52 -
[1331] - Quote
Don't restrict the safeties on alphas that would suck. Open pvp sandbox and all.
Beyond that... I think its a bit restricted as is and if we treat this as an extended trial i worry its gonna fall flat. Alphas will still struggle to get into the game when they'll be so weak and have so fewer options to omegas. Their sp limit alone is enough incentive to upgrade to omega and alphas could generate so much content for all of us, not just themselves, that more of us stay subbed for longer.
You can keep the 5mil sp limit but allow for much more freedom. Let them train skills to whatever levels they like. With diminishing returns and an sp limit this comes with its own pros and cons. I'd also let them cross train e-war. A caldari missile pilot without target painting is kinda silly. Other things I'd let them train is cloaking, ecm drones, mining barges, gas mining and ice mining, reprocessing and informorph psychology. Also is there any reason why non-caldari alphas can train electronic warfare to 4 with the proposed system??
This change allows for specialised chars, which is what we always say is a good way for noobs to not be insignificant, in combat or mining (or whatever the alpha wants) and make use of implants and multiple heads to make up for a lack of sp. They wont be competitive, but they wont forever suck at everything.
The final thing I'd do with this change is allow alphas to untrain skills. If we were to give them the freedom to make mistakes in training, the sp limit would make these mistakes a permanent handicap. So let them untrain skills at a rate of so many sp/hour.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
392
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 17:37:48 -
[1332] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Rin Aiko wrote:
I will answer. Ccp needs to make money.
This is designed to attract new players not for vets to unsub alt accounts.
@ccp - hope you know that if there is no limit to alpha log ins you will have a lot of accounts unsub. You will amywAy but it will be worse if no limit is in place. I have spoken to many guys who are talking just going alpha even on mains.
Guess we will see
Why on earth would they do that? Unsub their mains that is. The same reason I refused to undock for half of the daily event.
I had decided the idea was that bad.
A signature :o
|
Captain Campion
Captain Campion Corporation 1
26
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 20:50:16 -
[1333] - Quote
It seems wrong that noobs are put in noob corp with 11% tax. They're being punished and they don't even know it. |
Quriel Arjar
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 22:03:00 -
[1334] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote: Other things I'd let them train is cloaking, ecm drones, mining barges, gas mining and ice mining, reprocessing and informorph psychology. Also is there any reason why non-caldari alphas can train electronic warfare to 4 with the proposed system??
I would agree with you...
...if CCP implemented an impossible to bypass anti-multiboxing system. And that, because of obvious reasons, will never happen. |
Alteric Valar
A-1 Industrial and Salvage
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 03:18:50 -
[1335] - Quote
I have to throw in my 2 cents here. I have just re-subbed my main account. Reason? Alpha really sucks for returning players. Sure its great for newcomers, however, as a returning player with 25+mil sp, being reduced to nothing really sucks. So my question is this. Will I be able to use my subbed account, and an alpha account at the same time? That would be worth it to me... |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5232
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 05:41:41 -
[1336] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Rin Aiko wrote:
I will answer. Ccp needs to make money.
This is designed to attract new players not for vets to unsub alt accounts.
@ccp - hope you know that if there is no limit to alpha log ins you will have a lot of accounts unsub. You will amywAy but it will be worse if no limit is in place. I have spoken to many guys who are talking just going alpha even on mains.
Guess we will see
Why on earth would they do that? Unsub their mains that is. The same reason I refused to undock for half of the daily event. I had decided the idea was that bad.
Okay I see... no...wait I don't. You didn't think the daily events were a good thing so....you did not undock? Was that some sort of protest...a sit in or spin in?
And now because these other players think Alpha clones are a bad idea they are going to become Alphas because...it is a bad idea.
Talk about taking the Ultimatum Game to the next level.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5232
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 05:43:23 -
[1337] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Don't restrict the safeties on alphas that would suck. Open pvp sandbox and all.
Beyond that... I think its a bit restricted as is and if we treat this as an extended trial i worry its gonna fall flat. Alphas will still struggle to get into the game when they'll be so weak and have so fewer options to omegas. Their sp limit alone is enough incentive to upgrade to omega and alphas could generate so much content for all of us, not just themselves, that more of us stay subbed for longer.
You can keep the 5mil sp limit but allow for much more freedom. Let them train skills to whatever levels they like. With diminishing returns and an sp limit this comes with its own pros and cons. I'd also let them cross train e-war. A caldari missile pilot without target painting is kinda silly. Other things I'd let them train is cloaking, ecm drones, mining barges, gas mining and ice mining, reprocessing and informorph psychology. Also is there any reason why non-caldari alphas can train electronic warfare to 4 with the proposed system??
This change allows for specialised chars, which is what we always say is a good way for noobs to not be insignificant, in combat or mining (or whatever the alpha wants) and make use of implants and multiple heads to make up for a lack of sp. They wont be competitive, but they wont forever suck at everything.
The final thing I'd do with this change is allow alphas to untrain skills. If we were to give them the freedom to make mistakes in training, the sp limit would make these mistakes a permanent handicap. So let them untrain skills at a rate of so many sp/hour.
Hmmm...yeah a 5 million SP limit, but let them decide where to put it....okay.
With some possible exclusions such as cynos and cloaks. Other contenders?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5232
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 05:45:28 -
[1338] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: They are aware they will literally become Alpha clones. All the SP outside the Alpha clone SP will no longer be "active"--i.e. they they'll be limited to T1 frigates and cruisers and T1 modules by and large.
Current Alphas can fit (but just barely) most T2 modules. They just do not have access to T2 guns/drones which is quite significant handicap even on T1 hulls. Stats wise the Alpha fits will not be even in the same ballpark as subscribers similar fits would be. An Omen example fit I did earlier in this thread for comparison had approx 20% more dps at about 400% of the range, approx 20% more hp buffer, capacitor life, significantly better capabilities of applying that dps (drone speed, tracking, optimal, etc) and approx 20% better subspace speed. Which is not surprising at all considering the comparison is, in essence, between a 5 mil SP pilot and approx 80 mil SP pilot. A bit too large gap to bridge if pilots of roughly equal skill (in non SP sense) happen to meet. That is before one considers that subscriber has access to T2, T3 and pirate hulls and Alphas do not.
You do understand there needs to be a reason for me to keep paying my sub....right? Because if there isn't I won't.
Seriously, your grasp of fundamental economics sucks donkey balls.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 08:47:28 -
[1339] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Carniflex wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: They are aware they will literally become Alpha clones. All the SP outside the Alpha clone SP will no longer be "active"--i.e. they they'll be limited to T1 frigates and cruisers and T1 modules by and large.
Current Alphas can fit (but just barely) most T2 modules. They just do not have access to T2 guns/drones which is quite significant handicap even on T1 hulls. Stats wise the Alpha fits will not be even in the same ballpark as subscribers similar fits would be. An Omen example fit I did earlier in this thread for comparison had approx 20% more dps at about 400% of the range, approx 20% more hp buffer, capacitor life, significantly better capabilities of applying that dps (drone speed, tracking, optimal, etc) and approx 20% better subspace speed. Which is not surprising at all considering the comparison is, in essence, between a 5 mil SP pilot and approx 80 mil SP pilot. A bit too large gap to bridge if pilots of roughly equal skill (in non SP sense) happen to meet. That is before one considers that subscriber has access to T2, T3 and pirate hulls and Alphas do not. You do understand there needs to be a reason for me to keep paying my sub....right? Because if there isn't I won't. Seriously, your grasp of fundamental economics sucks donkey balls. You can see what's happening there, train all your secondary skills to max whatever you need then sub to train the hulls and weapon systems higher than the base frigate line.
Never going to happen. |
Namaan
Midnight Elites
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 16:45:53 -
[1340] - Quote
I like the limits Alphas have, but there should be an incentive to Alphas to sub at least for one month, call it a Beta Clone or whatever.
I'm not sure what I would give this "beta" Maybe give them the limits of 2 Alphas, for example if you are Amarr, and you sub but fall back down to beta you will have the skill limits of a Amarr and Caldari pilot... Yes this will open up some pirate ships, but the power cap is still there, the player now has double the ships to choose from, and character faction choice still matters.
I dunno, just an idea... I resubed just so I could post here and prepare for Alpha state by selling off my stuff I won't be able to use, but... I will never sell my Garmur, that is my carrot. |
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1830
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 17:33:12 -
[1341] - Quote
Could do what some other games have done and do tiers of paid structures.
Beta could be a one time payment of 10 euros to access a second race and extend sp cap to 10mil with certain skills
Delta could be a reduced subscription cost and allow almost full functionality with limits like what size or complexity ship you can fly for ex nothing bigger than a bc and t1 only for 5 euros a month
Art of Explosions
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 18:01:18 -
[1342] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Could do what some other games have done and do tiers of paid structures.
Beta could be a one time payment of 10 euros to access a second race and extend sp cap to 10mil with certain skills
Delta could be a reduced subscription cost and allow almost full functionality with limits like what size or complexity ship you can fly for ex nothing bigger than a bc and t1 only for 5 euros a month
I would keep it simple, all we need is one tier above Alpha for those who have given CCP at least 1 sub or PLEX, that will be enough of a incentive to get new players to at least try 1 month of full EVE without over complicating it. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5239
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 18:52:50 -
[1343] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Could do what some other games have done and do tiers of paid structures.
Beta could be a one time payment of 10 euros to access a second race and extend sp cap to 10mil with certain skills
Delta could be a reduced subscription cost and allow almost full functionality with limits like what size or complexity ship you can fly for ex nothing bigger than a bc and t1 only for 5 euros a month
No after a certain point you'd lose alot of current subs.
Everyone needs to keep in mind that CCP is not a charity. If it got to the point where there are too few subs CCP will try to monetize the game like every other f2p MMO. Having gold ammo for purchase. Good bye in game economy.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 21:32:07 -
[1344] - Quote
Namaan wrote:I like the limits Alphas have, but there should be an incentive to Alphas to sub at least for one month, call it a Beta Clone or whatever.
I'm not sure what I would give this "beta" Maybe give them the limits of 2 Alphas, for example if you are Amarr, and you sub but fall back down to beta you will have the skill limits of a Amarr and Caldari pilot... Yes this will open up some pirate ships, but the power cap is still there, the player now has double the ships to choose from, and character faction choice still matters.
I dunno, just an idea... I resubed just so I could post here and prepare for Alpha state by selling off my stuff I won't be able to use, but... I will never sell my Garmur, that is my carrot. What is the point in that though, they have the incentive now to sub. All your creating is a way for people to be able to extend there freeplay mode by paying 1 month and then be able to bypass the restrictions of the alpha state opening up more of the game for a 1 time payment. certainly does away with needing to sub. |
Blazemonger Adoulin
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 21:40:08 -
[1345] - Quote
I don't know if this has been brought up, but I decided to use a 30 day code I had to set up a toon using only alpha skills. I'm going through career agents now.
I noticed that the skill books they hand out as 'rewards' are not usable by alpha clones. This may well discourage some new players when they get given things they (as some will feel) will be 'forced' to sub for to be able to use.. |
Namaan
Midnight Elites
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 00:55:22 -
[1346] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Namaan wrote:I like the limits Alphas have, but there should be an incentive to Alphas to sub at least for one month, call it a Beta Clone or whatever.
I'm not sure what I would give this "beta" Maybe give them the limits of 2 Alphas, for example if you are Amarr, and you sub but fall back down to beta you will have the skill limits of a Amarr and Caldari pilot... Yes this will open up some pirate ships, but the power cap is still there, the player now has double the ships to choose from, and character faction choice still matters.
I dunno, just an idea... I resubed just so I could post here and prepare for Alpha state by selling off my stuff I won't be able to use, but... I will never sell my Garmur, that is my carrot. What is the point in that though, they have the incentive now to sub. All your creating is a way for people to be able to extend there freeplay mode by paying 1 month and then be able to bypass the restrictions of the alpha state opening up more of the game for a 1 time payment. certainly does away with needing to sub.
They have incentive, but its still a case of all or nothing. Now it doesn't have to be what I suggested, but a little boost to those who tried, or who have tried I feel make that leaf of fair all that much easier.
Just as an example it could be as simple as some skill caps going from level 1 to 2, like the armour/shield resist skills.
As for me I'm happy to come back even if it stays as it is now, but I do want to see more come with me, and I'd like to see more old vets come back too, and I'd like to see people feel good about attempting a sub. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1129
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 01:21:17 -
[1347] - Quote
Namaan wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Namaan wrote:I like the limits Alphas have, but there should be an incentive to Alphas to sub at least for one month, call it a Beta Clone or whatever.
I'm not sure what I would give this "beta" Maybe give them the limits of 2 Alphas, for example if you are Amarr, and you sub but fall back down to beta you will have the skill limits of a Amarr and Caldari pilot... Yes this will open up some pirate ships, but the power cap is still there, the player now has double the ships to choose from, and character faction choice still matters.
I dunno, just an idea... I resubed just so I could post here and prepare for Alpha state by selling off my stuff I won't be able to use, but... I will never sell my Garmur, that is my carrot. What is the point in that though, they have the incentive now to sub. All your creating is a way for people to be able to extend there freeplay mode by paying 1 month and then be able to bypass the restrictions of the alpha state opening up more of the game for a 1 time payment. certainly does away with needing to sub. They have incentive, but its still a case of all or nothing. Now it doesn't have to be what I suggested, but a little boost to those who tried, or who have tried I feel make that leaf of fair all that much easier. Just as an example it could be as simple as some skill caps going from level 1 to 2, like the armour/shield resist skills. As for me I'm happy to come back even if it stays as it is now, but I do want to see more come with me, and I'd like to see more old vets come back too, and I'd like to see people feel good about attempting a sub. I'm curious as to why you would keep the Garmur if your going to play Alpha Clone State? You won't be able to fly it as an Alpha...
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Cygnus Utini
Athena Rising Requiem Eternal
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 03:53:16 -
[1348] - Quote
How does CCP plan on curtailing the inflation that will accompany the addition of so many alpha clones. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1842
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 05:21:31 -
[1349] - Quote
What kind of inflation are you worried about?
Art of Explosions
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 05:23:26 -
[1350] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Namaan wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Namaan wrote:I like the limits Alphas have, but there should be an incentive to Alphas to sub at least for one month, call it a Beta Clone or whatever.
I'm not sure what I would give this "beta" Maybe give them the limits of 2 Alphas, for example if you are Amarr, and you sub but fall back down to beta you will have the skill limits of a Amarr and Caldari pilot... Yes this will open up some pirate ships, but the power cap is still there, the player now has double the ships to choose from, and character faction choice still matters.
I dunno, just an idea... I resubed just so I could post here and prepare for Alpha state by selling off my stuff I won't be able to use, but... I will never sell my Garmur, that is my carrot. What is the point in that though, they have the incentive now to sub. All your creating is a way for people to be able to extend there freeplay mode by paying 1 month and then be able to bypass the restrictions of the alpha state opening up more of the game for a 1 time payment. certainly does away with needing to sub. They have incentive, but its still a case of all or nothing. Now it doesn't have to be what I suggested, but a little boost to those who tried, or who have tried I feel make that leaf of fair all that much easier. Just as an example it could be as simple as some skill caps going from level 1 to 2, like the armour/shield resist skills. As for me I'm happy to come back even if it stays as it is now, but I do want to see more come with me, and I'd like to see more old vets come back too, and I'd like to see people feel good about attempting a sub. I'm curious as to why you would keep the Garmur if your going to play Alpha Clone State? You won't be able to fly it as an Alpha...
As I said, thats my personal carrot to tempt me to sub, or work hard enough to plex... Plus I love that ship. |
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 05:35:08 -
[1351] - Quote
Namaan wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:[quote=Namaan][quote=Daylan Vokan][quote=Namaan]I like the limits Alphas have, but there should be an incentive to Alphas to sub at least for one month, call it a Beta Clone or whatever.
I'm not sure what I would give this "beta" Maybe give them the limits of 2 Alphas, for example if you are Amarr, and you sub but fall back down to beta you will have the skill limits of a Amarr and Caldari pilot... Yes this will open up some pirate ships, but the power cap is still there, the player now has double the ships to choose from, and character faction choice still matters.
I dunno, just an idea... I resubed just so I could post here and prepare for Alpha state by selling off my stuff I won't be able to use, but... I will never sell my Garmur, that is my carrot. I'm curious as to why you would keep the Garmur if your going to play Alpha Clone State? You won't be able to fly it as an Alpha...
As I said, thats my personal carrot to tempt me to sub, or work hard enough to plex... Plus I love that ship. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3569
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 06:58:05 -
[1352] - Quote
Cygnus Utini wrote:How does CCP plan on curtailing the inflation that will accompany the addition of so many alpha clones. Inflation is primarily driven by isk faucets. The largest of which is carrier ratting (as shown by the dramatic increase in bounties after the citadel expansion). Alpha clones will not be impacting significantly on the supply of isk due to their ship limits. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1844
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 07:01:44 -
[1353] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cygnus Utini wrote:How does CCP plan on curtailing the inflation that will accompany the addition of so many alpha clones. Inflation is primarily driven by isk faucets. The largest of which is carrier ratting (as shown by the dramatic increase in bounties after the citadel expansion). Alpha clones will not be impacting significantly on the supply of isk due to their ship limits.
This would have been my answer if the question was directed at market prices
With such skill restrictions we might even see some things go up in price such as t1 hulls
Art of Explosions
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5239
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 07:03:54 -
[1354] - Quote
Cygnus Utini wrote:How does CCP plan on curtailing the inflation that will accompany the addition of so many alpha clones.
What inflation?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5239
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 07:05:20 -
[1355] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cygnus Utini wrote:How does CCP plan on curtailing the inflation that will accompany the addition of so many alpha clones. Inflation is primarily driven by isk faucets. The largest of which is carrier ratting (as shown by the dramatic increase in bounties after the citadel expansion). Alpha clones will not be impacting significantly on the supply of isk due to their ship limits. This would have been my answer if the question was directed at market prices With such skill restrictions we might even see some things go up in price such as t1 hulls
That is not inflation though. This notion of demand-pull inflation is not really inflation. Inflation has to do with the money supply not things like changes in demand or supply.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1844
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 07:18:38 -
[1356] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cygnus Utini wrote:How does CCP plan on curtailing the inflation that will accompany the addition of so many alpha clones. Inflation is primarily driven by isk faucets. The largest of which is carrier ratting (as shown by the dramatic increase in bounties after the citadel expansion). Alpha clones will not be impacting significantly on the supply of isk due to their ship limits. This would have been my answer if the question was directed at market prices With such skill restrictions we might even see some things go up in price such as t1 hulls That is not inflation though. This notion of demand-pull inflation is not really inflation. Inflation has to do with the money supply not things like changes in demand or supply.
Oh I meant that the alphas could only cause inflation if given the tools to, which they won't.
T1 hulls going up would be independent of the rest of the market and indeed would not be inflation but rather the demand going up
Art of Explosions
|
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 07:23:51 -
[1357] - Quote
Namaan wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Namaan wrote:I like the limits Alphas have, but there should be an incentive to Alphas to sub at least for one month, call it a Beta Clone or whatever.
I'm not sure what I would give this "beta" Maybe give them the limits of 2 Alphas, for example if you are Amarr, and you sub but fall back down to beta you will have the skill limits of a Amarr and Caldari pilot... Yes this will open up some pirate ships, but the power cap is still there, the player now has double the ships to choose from, and character faction choice still matters.
I dunno, just an idea... I resubed just so I could post here and prepare for Alpha state by selling off my stuff I won't be able to use, but... I will never sell my Garmur, that is my carrot. What is the point in that though, they have the incentive now to sub. All your creating is a way for people to be able to extend there freeplay mode by paying 1 month and then be able to bypass the restrictions of the alpha state opening up more of the game for a 1 time payment. certainly does away with needing to sub. They have incentive, but its still a case of all or nothing. Now it doesn't have to be what I suggested, but a little boost to those who tried, or who have tried I feel make that leaf of fair all that much easier. Just as an example it could be as simple as some skill caps going from level 1 to 2, like the armour/shield resist skills. As for me I'm happy to come back even if it stays as it is now, but I do want to see more come with me, and I'd like to see more old vets come back too, and I'd like to see people feel good about attempting a sub. The old trial gave you 21 days and maybe 1.2 mill sp's - The freeplay mode gives you 5 mill sp's and no time cap - that is a boost in itself and your more focused on the skills you can use for those hulls now instead of them being wasted trying to get into something you would have no skills to fly properly. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
77
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 16:08:43 -
[1358] - Quote
What about "Cerebral Accelerators" http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cerebral_accelerator
This patch will, in essence, kill them. Before they had a real value due to time savings against PLEX. Now with you being able to grind your first 4-5 months free then they will hold little to now real "value".
And has been asked and asked. What about new player invites. Does clone states mean that there will no longer be a trial account, or will the trial account now be like a "plex" account during the trial?
If you have +5 implants, what will happen when the clone state changes.
Would it be possible to keep the "hours for plex" option in the accounts page.. This would be good for those players who say they need to log in to re-up their account, but do it without worrying about their ship status.. The penalty in place for this should mean that it would work for those players who want to log in but may need to cloak or whatever. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1851
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 16:26:42 -
[1359] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:What about "Cerebral Accelerators" http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cerebral_accelerator This patch will, in essence, kill them. Before they had a real value due to time savings against PLEX. Now with you being able to grind your first 4-5 months free then they will hold little to now real "value". And has been asked and asked. What about new player invites. Does clone states mean that there will no longer be a trial account, or will the trial account now be like a "plex" account during the trial? If you have +5 implants, what will happen when the clone state changes. Would it be possible to keep the "hours for plex" option in the accounts page.. This would be good for those players who say they need to log in to re-up their account, but do it without worrying about their ship status.. The penalty in place for this should mean that it would work for those players who want to log in but may need to cloak or whatever.
You actually need to read the blog. Most of your questions have been answered already.
As for accelerators they will still be useful for omegas and if my hunch is correct, only people who used them anyway were vets making alts or someone who bought a package off steam that gave you subbed time anyway
Art of Explosions
|
bozalrea
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 22:18:28 -
[1360] - Quote
so, i'm asking myself how much time we'll wait before new 'one week plexs' will hit the market to squeeze out every last drop of money from the poorests eve players ? ^^ Some could like it :) ; |
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5243
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 22:21:08 -
[1361] - Quote
bozalrea wrote:so, i'm asking myself how much time we'll wait before new 'one week plexs' will hit the market to squeeze out every last drop of money from the poorests eve players ? ^^ Some could like it :) ;
Why are you assuming that Alpha players will be poor IRL? I know one friend who intends to give it a go and the reason he'll likely stay Alpha is RL just doesn't give him the time to justify the investment...from an income perspective he certainly could afford to go Omega though.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 03:02:09 -
[1362] - Quote
Daylan Vokan wrote:Namaan wrote:Daylan Vokan wrote:Namaan wrote:I like the limits Alphas have, but there should be an incentive to Alphas to sub at least for one month, call it a Beta Clone or whatever.
I'm not sure what I would give this "beta" Maybe give them the limits of 2 Alphas, for example if you are Amarr, and you sub but fall back down to beta you will have the skill limits of a Amarr and Caldari pilot... Yes this will open up some pirate ships, but the power cap is still there, the player now has double the ships to choose from, and character faction choice still matters.
I dunno, just an idea... I resubed just so I could post here and prepare for Alpha state by selling off my stuff I won't be able to use, but... I will never sell my Garmur, that is my carrot. What is the point in that though, they have the incentive now to sub. All your creating is a way for people to be able to extend there freeplay mode by paying 1 month and then be able to bypass the restrictions of the alpha state opening up more of the game for a 1 time payment. certainly does away with needing to sub. They have incentive, but its still a case of all or nothing. Now it doesn't have to be what I suggested, but a little boost to those who tried, or who have tried I feel make that leaf of fair all that much easier. Just as an example it could be as simple as some skill caps going from level 1 to 2, like the armour/shield resist skills. As for me I'm happy to come back even if it stays as it is now, but I do want to see more come with me, and I'd like to see more old vets come back too, and I'd like to see people feel good about attempting a sub. The old trial gave you 21 days and maybe 1.2 mill sp's - The freeplay mode gives you 5 mill sp's and no time cap - that is a boost in itself and your more focused on the skills you can use for those hulls now instead of them being wasted trying to get into something you would have no skills to fly properly.
Which I understand, what I'm getting at is a boost to help bring old vets back and to make trying Omega a sweeter deal... If the sub was a problem before there is little reason for most to sub again, but if you make 1 month worth it to try then CCP gets something, and maybe that easy taste will gain an actual full time sub... I personally don't care, but I know a few vets who don't have the time to justify a sub again due to life (not money), and the current Alphas aren't very appealing in current form for these guys that had sub for a year or more in the past.
I like the Limits Alphas have, but as I said before I do feel there should be a tier *slightly* higher for those that dropped from Omega. |
Jadek Kin
Positive-Feedback. Control-Alt-Duvolle
52
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 03:23:13 -
[1363] - Quote
Has there been any mention of alpha clones having full access to the forums, or will they be treated like trial accounts in that regard? (limited to EVE New Citizens Q&A section)
@JadekMenaheim
|
Astrid Farnsworth
Broke and Famous
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 04:34:18 -
[1364] - Quote
Might be this was already answer but where goes my question: if I have several accounts that dont have character because they whore sold or transfer, could I the possibility to create a new character in alpha state?
"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) noted in 1980**strong text**
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5244
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 05:35:18 -
[1365] - Quote
Astrid Farnsworth wrote:Might be this was already answer but where goes my question: if I have several accounts that dont have character because they whore sold or transfer, could I the possibility to create a new character in alpha state?
I believe so, just have to let the sub expire would be my guess.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
77
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 08:10:16 -
[1366] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:DeODokktor wrote:What about "Cerebral Accelerators" http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cerebral_accelerator This patch will, in essence, kill them. Before they had a real value due to time savings against PLEX. Now with you being able to grind your first 4-5 months free then they will hold little to now real "value". And has been asked and asked. What about new player invites. Does clone states mean that there will no longer be a trial account, or will the trial account now be like a "plex" account during the trial? If you have +5 implants, what will happen when the clone state changes. Would it be possible to keep the "hours for plex" option in the accounts page.. This would be good for those players who say they need to log in to re-up their account, but do it without worrying about their ship status.. The penalty in place for this should mean that it would work for those players who want to log in but may need to cloak or whatever. You actually need to read the blog. Most of your questions have been answered already. As for accelerators they will still be useful for omegas and if my hunch is correct, only people who used them anyway were vets making alts or someone who bought a package off steam that gave you subbed time anyway
Actually none of my questions were answered in the dev blog. Nothing about "Implants". Nothing about "Invites". Nothing about "Hours for PLEX". (It would be assumed this option is getting removed, but I give a valid reason why it shouldn't.)
And no, Accelerators will not be really be useful for anyone at the price point CCP makes the packages at. They would need to drop the package price that includes them by about $2. And yes, they are probably mainly used by Vets and those people who sometimes get them "free" in their packages.
But hey, thanks for referring me back to the blog. Unless there is some other blog that has a lot of updated info, my questions are not answered at all. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1137
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 08:49:21 -
[1367] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:bozalrea wrote:so, i'm asking myself how much time we'll wait before new 'one week plexs' will hit the market to squeeze out every last drop of money from the poorests eve players ? ^^ Some could like it :) ; Why are you assuming that Alpha players will be poor IRL? I know one friend who intends to give it a go and the reason he'll likely stay Alpha is RL just doesn't give him the time to justify the investment...from an income perspective he certainly could afford to go Omega though. So your friend who could according to you afford the sub, won't pay it but will be happy to long term experience part of what is available in Eve.
Is he too cheap to want to experience all Eve has to offer, or just wants something for free, even if it is subpar to what is available?
I suppose CCP asked themselves these sort of questions before announcing Alpha Clones as an option - Like, how much revenue will likely be generated from them. How much resources will hordes of these "free to play" accounts take away from paying customers (TIDI isn't going away anytime soon).
Your friend really doesn't give much hope to CCP's plan that Alpha Clones will lead to more subs, does it...
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
380
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 10:27:00 -
[1368] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: I suppose CCP asked themselves these sort of questions before announcing Alpha Clones as an option - Like, how much revenue will likely be generated from them. How much resources will hordes of these "free to play" accounts take away from paying customers (TIDI isn't going away anytime soon).
The EVE peak concurrent user record is what ... a little over 60 000? And we are currently sitting at approx 20k on your average day prime time and up to perhaps 40k-ish during the weekend prime time. So I'm not particularly worried about Alpha accounts causing "lag" for "paying customers" even if they at first might push the PCU a bit north of 100k during weekend prime time. Hell that number would be a HUGE success for the whole system. I personally suspect though, that we might not even pass the past PCU record during the first weekends after the Alpha release when it should be the hottest thing since sliced bread with everyone checking it out. But I'm hopeful it will be more successful than I am thinking it will.
What causes "lag" predominantly is putting huge amounts of clients in the same grid doing stuff that affects all the other clients in the grid. I.e., the classical "everything and kitchen sink" fleet engagement between major coalitions somewhere in the nullnull or lowsec where a titan took a wrong turn or pressed jump to instead of bridge to. In which vast majority of Alphas are unlikely to participate, considering how crippled they are as proposed currently.
Few hundred Ventures in a noob starter system trying to bump each other away from the last veldspar roid in the system are probably not going to be a heavy load on the server.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
Arahantius Detache
Arahantius Detache Corporation
27
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 11:21:05 -
[1369] - Quote
Over the last 40years I've played more games than I can remember.
How many did I pay for? EVERY single player game until F2P became a thing.
The biggest amount I paid to game? About $1000USD to play Entropia Universe in microtransactions.
Will people pay to play EVE now that a free option is available? I really doubt it, it's just not a fun game compared to the many many games worth paying for.
I believe that many players jump between games at a whim and pay for a select few so that their gaming bill isn't over budget. The primary reason for me continuing my drudge no longer exists. I can just log on whenever without having to use my PI alts now (which I find extremely dull). No more game job.
This is a perspective for CCP to ponder, the F2P aspect may just cause more damage than good considering how many elitists are getting cranky that they have to share their space with those the consider below themselves (unfair but seemingly common view). |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1477
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 15:26:57 -
[1370] - Quote
I'm just screwing around in EFT and it seems Caldari and Minmatar Characters pretty much getting screwed. Not giving the caldari or minmatar drone skills really sucks for them.
Not many ships use both guns and missiles at the same time. But many if not most ships use drones along with the other weapons. This is a huge advantage for gallente and amarr.
Gnosis has less than half the dps for caldari or minmitar as it does for gallente or amarr.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
|
Rin Aiko
CVT IND
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 16:20:33 -
[1371] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I'm just screwing around in EFT and it seems Caldari and Minmatar Characters pretty much getting screwed. Not giving the caldari or minmatar drone skills really sucks for them.
Not many ships use both guns and missiles at the same time. But many if not most ships use drones along with the other weapons. This is a huge advantage for gallente and amarr.
Gnosis has less than half the dps for caldari or minmitar as it does for gallente or amarr.
Well, if they like Eve they. May want to plex the account.=ƒÿë |
Namaan
Midnight Elites
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 16:33:50 -
[1372] - Quote
Alpha clones are not about getting more players to sub/plex, its about getting more players into the game... Sub/PLEX is just a bonus for CCP. |
Absolute Intoleranto
State Protectorate Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 16:54:41 -
[1373] - Quote
Arahantius Detache wrote:This is a perspective for CCP to ponder, the F2P aspect may just cause more damage than good considering how many elitists are getting cranky that they have to share their space with those the consider below themselves (unfair but seemingly common view).
Basically they are leaving for no reason..
I do not have the right words for this kind of stupidity! |
Namaan
Midnight Elites
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 17:04:18 -
[1374] - Quote
Absolute Intoleranto wrote:Arahantius Detache wrote:This is a perspective for CCP to ponder, the F2P aspect may just cause more damage than good considering how many elitists are getting cranky that they have to share their space with those the consider below themselves (unfair but seemingly common view). Basically they are leaving for no reason.. I do not have the right words for this kind of stupidity!
Indeed, Alphas are a reason to stay as Alphas need Omegas to see as much of EVE as possible, and having Alphas under their wing gives Omegas something more to do, plus having more voices on the coms always makes a day in space more enjoyable.. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1477
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:08:32 -
[1375] - Quote
Rin Aiko wrote:Cearain wrote:I'm just screwing around in EFT and it seems Caldari and Minmatar Characters pretty much getting screwed. Not giving the caldari or minmatar drone skills really sucks for them.
Not many ships use both guns and missiles at the same time. But many if not most ships use drones along with the other weapons. This is a huge advantage for gallente and amarr.
Gnosis has less than half the dps for caldari or minmitar as it does for gallente or amarr.
Well, if they like Eve they. May want to plex the account.=ƒÿë
Or just get gallente alts. Seriously with gallente industrial 1 and the drone skills this is looking bad.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Namaan
Midnight Elites
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 17:18:52 -
[1376] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Rin Aiko wrote:Cearain wrote:I'm just screwing around in EFT and it seems Caldari and Minmatar Characters pretty much getting screwed. Not giving the caldari or minmatar drone skills really sucks for them.
Not many ships use both guns and missiles at the same time. But many if not most ships use drones along with the other weapons. This is a huge advantage for gallente and amarr.
Gnosis has less than half the dps for caldari or minmitar as it does for gallente or amarr.
Well, if they like Eve they. May want to plex the account.=ƒÿë Or just get gallente alts. Seriously with gallente industrial 1 and the drone skills this is looking bad.
If you're looking for mostly PvP kinda, yeah... Caldari will be the best mission runners (Cal Gnosis does 3s with ease I'm told) and the Hookbill will be a respectable scramkite if Cals want to PvP, but lets be honest Alphas will more about wolf packs, not solo ninjas. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1477
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Posted - 2016.09.13 18:43:07 -
[1377] - Quote
I know not everything is set in stone and that is the reason for this post.
Based on the skills they gave so far Gallente alphas looks like they will be either more powerful, or much more powerful than all the other alphas.
First there is the issue of drone skills. Gallente and Amarr both have much better drone skills than minmatar or caldari alphas. Caldari and minmatar have gun and missile skills. Which seems balanced unless you play eve. People rarely if ever use both guns and missiles on the same ship. But they almost always use both guns and drones. When you look at a gnosis this means Amarr and Gallente will have about 2xs the dps as caldari or minmatar. This is a huge disparity.
Second is the gallente industrial skill. CCP has not said what will happen with pi. If you have an omega clone set up multiple pi systems what happens when your subscription lapses? CCP has not directly answered this but they have given some vague notions that they may leave them running. If you have ever tried to extract pi skills you know ccp doesn't really have a handle on what pi you have running. Ok so *if* they allow pi to continue to be farmed (or can't prevent it for technical reasons) then the epithal will be a huge benefit for gallente.
I started my characters years ago with the assurance that race didn't matter. The 2 things I mention above matter allot.
What can be done? Lots of things.
Eg., 1) allow characters to choose the racial skills they want as an alpha. or
2) give all races the same drone bonuses (either the lower ones or the better ones whatever)
3) Don't allow alphas to continue pi set ups that only omegas can start. or
4) if you do then at least let all races have access to the epithal.
There are plenty of other things that can address these problems but I just want to make sure ccp is ahead of the game on this.
edit: feel free to mention in this thread any other race imbalance issues.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 19:28:14 -
[1378] - Quote
I said Hookbills will be respectable, not the best. I know Gal has best DPS, but Cal Gnosis will do 4s much easier than Gal due to range and tank.
As I said Alpha pvp will be more about groups, 2 Cal Alphas in Condors, or a Condor & Kestrel will get work done for easy to get ships. The lower drone skills does hurt the Caramel, but the Moa is pretty good with Alpha skills. |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
407
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 19:41:56 -
[1379] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I know not everything is set in stone and that is the reason for this post.
Based on the skills they gave so far Gallente alphas looks like they will be either more powerful, or much more powerful than all the other alphas.
First there is the issue of drone skills. Gallente and Amarr both have much better drone skills than minmatar or caldari alphas. Caldari and minmatar have gun and missile skills. Which seems balanced unless you play eve. People rarely if ever use both guns and missiles on the same ship. But they almost always use both guns and drones. When you look at a gnosis this means Amarr and Gallente will have about 2xs the dps as caldari or minmatar. This is a huge disparity.
Second is the gallente industrial skill. CCP has not said what will happen with pi. If you have an omega clone set up multiple pi systems what happens when your subscription lapses? CCP has not directly answered this but they have given some vague notions that they may leave them running. If you have ever tried to extract pi skills you know ccp doesn't really have a handle on what pi you have running. Ok so *if* they allow pi to continue to be farmed (or can't prevent it for technical reasons) then the epithal will be a huge benefit for gallente.
I started my characters years ago with the assurance that race didn't matter. The 2 things I mention above matter allot.
What can be done? Lots of things.
Eg., 1) allow characters to choose the racial skills they want as an alpha. or
2) give all races the same drone bonuses (either the lower ones or the better ones whatever)
3) Don't allow alphas to continue pi set ups that only omegas can start. or
4) if you do then at least let all races have access to the epithal.
There are plenty of other things that can address these problems but I just want to make sure ccp is ahead of the game on this.
edit: feel free to mention in this thread any other race imbalance issues.
First off before anything else it is important to remember that having a character of a certain race now is a commitment. In this new world there will be no reason to not have all four races as alpha if you so want to. I for one plan to start 4 new accounts to have one of each. So the notion of having to balance them is irrelevant. If the Gnosis flys better with Gallente pilots then dedicated alpha pilots who want to use Gnosis will just start as Gallente. The race never mattered before, and it stops mattering if you ever decide to go Omega.
As far as better drone skills, most T1 cruiser down stick pretty tight to the racial theme.
The Bantam has 5m3 drone capacity, which is really just to get on kills, and isn't part of it "purpose" The Heron gets 15 mbit bandwidth but again isn't a combat ship, most of the time those will be ewar drones, or killing defenseless targets The Griffin gets 5m3 and again, isn't really the point of the ship, and you have plenty of combat capability and disabling solo enemies. Osprey has 20m3 and is the same as the Bantam Blackbird has 10m3 and is the same as the Griffin
Of these the only one even potentially impacted by having only Drone III is the Osprey
Interestingly this argument affects the Caracle and the Moa, notably the combat cruisers for the Caldari. https://o.smium.org/loadout/103238
Less than 10% of the total damage is the drones, and even then a max skilled Caldari pilot will field the full 2 drones the Caracal has. This makes the actual damage difference from the drones to be almost negligible. However for ships bonused for Drones (such as Amarr and Gallente) the difference between having or not having those skills can be the difference between not having Missile Projectile or Missile Bombardment.
As far as PI, I can only appeal to the above note. For that edge case, I would recommend you use the best tool for the job. Assuming they can even manage their PI as alphas.
Listen to On Grid Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1477
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Posted - 2016.09.13 20:20:51 -
[1380] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:Cearain wrote:I know not everything is set in stone and that is the reason for this post.
Based on the skills they gave so far Gallente alphas looks like they will be either more powerful, or much more powerful than all the other alphas.
First there is the issue of drone skills. Gallente and Amarr both have much better drone skills than minmatar or caldari alphas. Caldari and minmatar have gun and missile skills. Which seems balanced unless you play eve. People rarely if ever use both guns and missiles on the same ship. But they almost always use both guns and drones. When you look at a gnosis this means Amarr and Gallente will have about 2xs the dps as caldari or minmatar. This is a huge disparity.
Second is the gallente industrial skill. CCP has not said what will happen with pi. If you have an omega clone set up multiple pi systems what happens when your subscription lapses? CCP has not directly answered this but they have given some vague notions that they may leave them running. If you have ever tried to extract pi skills you know ccp doesn't really have a handle on what pi you have running. Ok so *if* they allow pi to continue to be farmed (or can't prevent it for technical reasons) then the epithal will be a huge benefit for gallente.
I started my characters years ago with the assurance that race didn't matter. The 2 things I mention above matter allot.
What can be done? Lots of things.
Eg., 1) allow characters to choose the racial skills they want as an alpha. or
2) give all races the same drone bonuses (either the lower ones or the better ones whatever)
3) Don't allow alphas to continue pi set ups that only omegas can start. or
4) if you do then at least let all races have access to the epithal.
There are plenty of other things that can address these problems but I just want to make sure ccp is ahead of the game on this.
edit: feel free to mention in this thread any other race imbalance issues. First off before anything else it is important to remember that having a character of a certain race now is a commitment. In this new world there will be no reason to not have all four races as alpha if you so want to. I for one plan to start 4 new accounts to have one of each. So the notion of having to balance them is irrelevant. If the Gnosis flys better with Gallente pilots then dedicated alpha pilots who want to use Gnosis will just start as Gallente. The race never mattered before, and it stops mattering if you ever decide to go Omega. As far as better drone skills, most T1 cruiser down stick pretty tight to the racial theme. The Bantam has 5m3 drone capacity, which is really just to get on kills, and isn't part of it "purpose" The Heron gets 15 mbit bandwidth but again isn't a combat ship, most of the time those will be ewar drones, or killing defenseless targets The Griffin gets 5m3 and again, isn't really the point of the ship, and you have plenty of combat capability and disabling solo enemies. Osprey has 20m3 and is the same as the Bantam Blackbird has 10m3 and is the same as the Griffin Of these the only one even potentially impacted by having only Drone III is the Osprey Interestingly this argument affects the Caracle and the Moa, notably the combat cruisers for the Caldari. https://o.smium.org/loadout/103238 Less than 10% of the total damage is the drones, and even then a max skilled Caldari pilot will field the full 2 drones the Caracal has. This makes the actual damage difference from the drones to be almost negligible. However for ships bonused for Drones (such as Amarr and Gallente) the difference between having or not having those skills can be the difference between not having Missile Projectile or Missile Bombardment. .
Starting new characters may sound good to you, but I already have invested years in the characters I have. For years ccp has been saying race doesn't matter. Now it does and in a substantial way. I don't want to exaggerate this but the difference is substantial. When the overall skills are decreased having the 2 weapon systems becomes even more valuable. This is true due to the way the bonuses work.
Ashterothi wrote:As far as PI, I can only appeal to the above note. For that edge case, I would recommend you use the best tool for the job. Assuming they can even manage their PI as alphas.
Ok I am not sure how what was said above applies. No other races will be able to fly the epithal. And that is the pi ship unless I am missing one. Now yes it does assume we can manage pi as alphas. I would be quite happy if they did not allow pi to continue running on alpha accounts. But because ccp does not seem to have enough handle on the code to allow us to extract pi skills I tend to think we will be able to keep running pi. You say that this is an "edge" case. Again I don't mean to exagerate but pi is a substantial part of the game. To only allow one race to do that efficiently as an alpha clone is significant.
edit: But I do hope they don't allow pi that requires an omega to set up to continue to be run by alphas.
edit2: Just let me pick my racial bonuses for when I am an alpha - problem solved. You can pick minmatar or caldari if you think they are decent.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 22:16:00 -
[1381] - Quote
I think the issue is you are looking at this in absolutes... Just because one race is worse in say PvP doesn't mean they can't PvP, I mean if you really want to think that way then Alphas should just give up because Omegas. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1477
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Posted - 2016.09.14 03:17:25 -
[1382] - Quote
Namaan wrote:I think the issue is you are looking at this in absolutes... Just because one race is worse in say PvP doesn't mean they can't PvP, I mean if you really want to think that way then Alphas should just give up because Omegas.
You are comparing a paid account with a non paid account.
Look when I started my characters they said your race wouldn't matter. Why not just allow us characters who relied on that representation to pick what alpha racial skills will stay with their character? So you can pick the caldari set or gallente set or whatever. Then you would be stuck with that set but at least it was your own choice.
At first I didn't think it mattered much because I thought the alphas would be weak. But if they can do pi and fly around in gnosis ships then they are not really weak at all. Plus flying in cruisers and down is pretty fun anyway. But being stuck in caldari or minmatar or even amarr will suck compared to gallente who can do pi and have a pretty nice blaster gnosis that does almost 600 dps.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
3
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 03:46:20 -
[1383] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote:I think the issue is you are looking at this in absolutes... Just because one race is worse in say PvP doesn't mean they can't PvP, I mean if you really want to think that way then Alphas should just give up because Omegas. You are comparing a paid account with a non paid account. Look when I started my characters they said your race wouldn't matter. Why not just allow us characters who relied on that representation to pick what alpha racial skills will stay with their character? So you can pick the caldari set or gallente set or whatever. Then you would be stuck with that set but at least it was your own choice. At first I didn't think it mattered much because I thought the alphas would be weak. But if they can do pi and fly around in gnosis ships then they are not really weak at all. Plus flying in cruisers and down is pretty fun anyway. But being stuck in caldari or minmatar or even amarr will suck compared to gallente who can do pi and have a pretty nice blaster gnosis that does almost 600 dps. Edit: I didn't realize the alphas could use tech 2 damage mods. The damage is easilly over 600 dps for a gallente blaster gnosis. I really think this is a bit too powerful because honestly I think I would rarely sub anymore.
You'll do more damage in a Vexor than a Gal Gnosis from what I've seen hammered out. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5247
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 06:51:31 -
[1384] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
Starting new characters may sound good to you, but I already have invested years in the characters I have. For years ccp has been saying race doesn't matter. Now it does and in a substantial way. I don't want to exaggerate this but the difference is substantial. When the overall skills are decreased having the 2 weapon systems becomes even more valuable. This is true due to the way the bonuses work.
I'm sorry but...WTFAYTA? Race won't matter to an Omega clone. So unless you are thinking of letting current Omega clones going ALPHA (and why on earth would you do that) what does it matter?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5247
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 07:01:14 -
[1385] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote:I think the issue is you are looking at this in absolutes... Just because one race is worse in say PvP doesn't mean they can't PvP, I mean if you really want to think that way then Alphas should just give up because Omegas. You are comparing a paid account with a non paid account. Look when I started my characters they said your race wouldn't matter. Why not just allow us characters who relied on that representation to pick what alpha racial skills will stay with their character? So you can pick the caldari set or gallente set or whatever. Then you would be stuck with that set but at least it was your own choice. At first I didn't think it mattered much because I thought the alphas would be weak. But if they can do pi and fly around in gnosis ships then they are not really weak at all. Plus flying in cruisers and down is pretty fun anyway. But being stuck in caldari or minmatar or even amarr will suck compared to gallente who can do pi and have a pretty nice blaster gnosis that does almost 600 dps. Edit: I didn't realize the alphas could use tech 2 damage mods. The damage is easilly over 600 dps for a gallente blaster gnosis. I really think this is a bit too powerful because honestly I think I would rarely sub anymore.
Have you read the Dev blog? Alphas cannot do PI. Can they fly around in a Gnosis? Sure.
And please show us this 600 DPS Gnosis fit that an Alpha can fly.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1478
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Posted - 2016.09.14 10:07:38 -
[1386] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote:I think the issue is you are looking at this in absolutes... Just because one race is worse in say PvP doesn't mean they can't PvP, I mean if you really want to think that way then Alphas should just give up because Omegas. You are comparing a paid account with a non paid account. Look when I started my characters they said your race wouldn't matter. Why not just allow us characters who relied on that representation to pick what alpha racial skills will stay with their character? So you can pick the caldari set or gallente set or whatever. Then you would be stuck with that set but at least it was your own choice. At first I didn't think it mattered much because I thought the alphas would be weak. But if they can do pi and fly around in gnosis ships then they are not really weak at all. Plus flying in cruisers and down is pretty fun anyway. But being stuck in caldari or minmatar or even amarr will suck compared to gallente who can do pi and have a pretty nice blaster gnosis that does almost 600 dps. Edit: I didn't realize the alphas could use tech 2 damage mods. The damage is easilly over 600 dps for a gallente blaster gnosis. I really think this is a bit too powerful because honestly I think I would rarely sub anymore. Have you read the Dev blog? Alphas cannot do PI. Can they fly around in a Gnosis? Sure. And please show us this 600 DPS Gnosis fit that an Alpha can fly.
If alphas can not do PI that is one thing. But the question Ccp has left open is whether an omega can set up PI and then let the subscription lapse. What then happens? The dev blog says only they will generally take a hands off approach to such matters. Moreover currently you can't extract most PI skills. So I wouldn't be surprised if after an omega sets up a PI system he can let his sub lapse and continue to farm it with the alpa If that's not the case ok. But until we have an answer this thread is to talk about consequences. And if we can do PI gallente have a substantial advantage in the apparent ability to use the epithal.
Gnosis: Put modal neutron blasters with navy antimatter. Use fed navy medium drones and 2 dda2s and 2 mag stab2s in the lows. If your a maxed gallente alpha you get a bit over 620 without heat. You still have room for a nice tank like with a xl asb or other shield tank. But you may need a fitting mod and rig.
I really am surprised how powerful alphas will be. Whoever decided on the 5 mill sp spent them wisely. If this goes through like it I think, I will be saving probably at least half my sub money. I guess that's good for me but I am doubtful others will make up the difference me and others like me will create. I never thought eve was expensive. But why spend money you really don't have to?
I will just say it would seem easier to add abilities to alphas later than to take them away. For once I am afraid Ccp will lose allot of their income and not make it back. The whole PI thing is sort of a big deal in my personal decision to sub my accounts.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Clarissa Sunshine
Travllers Here Be Dragons
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 13:42:12 -
[1387] - Quote
Please CCP, i beg you. Read this, tell me this won't happen. Please.
Q: What about farming on free alts using systems like industry?
A: WeGÇÖve deliberately tried to limit this behavior using the skills allowed in the Alpha list. It should be very hard to scale alt farms in a way that hurts the ecosystem. But, this is something we need your help on though so if you see the potential for abuse please let us know.
I really do not know how to prevent this, but if it goes through as it now - I will abuse it. I will make Hundreds of Accounts to make Isk and issue jobs that have no skill req. They still earn a pretty penny - they really do. I will make so many accounts that the profits for these products will not be worthy for the new players..
No, obviously it wont be me - it will be the many players that see that this becomes the only way to produce no-skill-req. BPOs/BPCs without making loss. Please I beg you CCP, sort this out before it goes live. I do not see new players making profit of this, not long-term. I see old players creating dozens and hundreds of accounts to make profit. And they don't want this too. Its not a gameplay part you strive for.
And there is NO winner here:
-The new Players/Testers wont make profit of this -> they can just sandbox test the system with probably making a loss due to old players manufacturing the stuff in <1% tax Systems.
-The old Industry guys that are NOT in the "big industry league" and making t2/t3/capitals are technically losing all their spent SP as alpha chars are going to simply overgrow them with efficency.
-The "big league" old Industry guys are forced to stay where they are. If you want to produce t1 / no-skill stuff, you have to make alpha clones anyways because otherwise you are makin a loss.
EVERY Industry Job that is makeable by an Alpha Clone is a WASTE on an Omega Clone.
If you allow Alpha Clones to make Industryjobs at the same cost as Omega Clones, you are forcing us to take a ridicilous fight.
You want to prevent us doing it, but it is more cost-efficent. So youre limiting the slots..players will create more alpha clones.. You're forcing people to either be in-efficent or fight against a system your trying to prevent but not disabling it. I really dont know how to explain this, youre putting us against a fight with CCP.
Solutions? I do not see any good deal to be honest, i can't imagine you didnt sit there and think about it. But i have the very very sad feeling that you did end up the meeting with somebody saying "Ah well, we doubt people gonna really sit there and create dozens of accounts just to save a few isk".
I repeat: I will.
~~~~~~~~~~
The issue: New players should get a feeling for industry and taste it without removing this essential part of the game of Alpha newbros.
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Clarissa Sunshine
Travllers Here Be Dragons
0
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Posted - 2016.09.14 13:42:59 -
[1388] - Quote
Solutions?
A) One Possibile Solution: Adding some kind of synthethic cost to Alpha clones so they can never compete with Omega Clones. -> Won't work, even if alpha clones are more expensive than other at producing, there will always be products where the synthethic cost is smaller than Omega Industryjobcost. Numbercrunchers will figure out, numbercrunchers will abuse. Truly new players will feel disadvantaged.
Once again i assume you did already think about this and denied it because the Alphas would feel disadvantaged. The truth is, as long as they are at the same cost of production, the truly new players that want to feel industry will be at a disadvantage due to the advantages an old player Alpha has vs. a new player alpha.
B) What youve choosen: Limit the slots/duration-skills and make it "harder" to actually build up farms. Well, if it's allowed by the rules, I will do it. And i will do it aslong as it gives profit. And I, as an older player will be advanatged over newer players without access to low-sec/null-sec. New Players will get a taste of industry, but not making profit. Do you believe I'm the only player in whole eve that would do that?
C) Removal of the industry functionality for Alpha clones -> Doesnt solve the issue, truly new players should see that feature, its one of the many things i saw as a rookie and that got me hooked. I dont want to take it away from the players but i really want to prevent a change that could lead to that horrible kind of gameplay.
D) Limit the time Alphas can issue an Industryjob, I had that answer twice in a small discussion so I'll add it. It does not prevent old players from building farms, its just more "annoying" and we have to fight harder - but we end up the same. We fight CCP. And neither the developer nor the players should strive for that.
E) Forbid it. I really like this one, altho its not really -¦"preventing" it, but it might help more as im still amazed by the amount of people in eve that do follow the rules: Simple as that, forbid creating an account as an exlusive Industry-Job Alpha Account. Now as always, never put up a rule youre not able to enforce . So there have to be ways to distinguish between all the diffrent possibilities of beeing Alpha (New player, old player not paying atm, Old Player having an Scout Alt, Pure Industry user...and so on, just to name a few)
This is alot of work, hard to prove and will lead to mistakes often and alot of players will sneak through.
Yet im pretty sure it will prevent the people that do follow the rules to do it and it will prevent people doing it in huge-scale which would actually have an impact on the market.
Its a huge topic that has to be thought of very very carefully, account in all kind of people playing eve and how this all would affect all parties, the new, the old and the creators.
But the quote from Devblog "EVE is ready for this." is not correct. EVE is ready to talk about it, EVE is ready to think of as a whole community how to round off the corners |
Namaan
Midnight Elites
3
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 15:44:59 -
[1389] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote: It doesn't matter what I compare, if your that sore about Gal vs Cal then its going to be bad for you no matter what.
Yeah it does matter. I am not inclined to pay for my account with alphas being so powerful. I mean that gnosis fit is just a bit less than the ferox fit I have been flying with. Plus I can buy huge amounts of them with the money I save. I don't usually fly things bigger than a bc anyway. Sure some of my alliance fleet stuff will be out, but they will develop alpha doctrines and if we end up in a serious war I can plex the account for the month or 2. Honestly, like teckos Pech I didnGÇÖt realize just how powerful these alphas can be until I started screwing around with eft. Now I admit I would be sore if alphas can continue to farm pi and only gallente can fly epithals. Basically giving gallente and only gallente pi will be a huge kick to other races - do you agree? Other than that itGÇÖs no big deal. I will just play a gallente alt I have instead of my main.
Do I agree? Yes and no... Are Alphas better than people think? Yes... Do I think Gal is better at PvP, and Cal is better at Missions? Yes again, but this is nothing new... Do I think its Gal or nothing? No, a Cal pilot can still PvP just fine, yes he will be less effective than a Gal pilot, but he can still get work done... I do agree that some skills need to be evened out like Drones as it hurts Caracel.
Do I think Alphas are good enough to give up the Omega life? That depends on the individual and what they want out of EVE, but for the most part I say no, Alpha clones are not the way to live is you can help it. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1478
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Posted - 2016.09.14 16:10:55 -
[1390] - Quote
Namaan wrote:Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote: It doesn't matter what I compare, if your that sore about Gal vs Cal then its going to be bad for you no matter what.
Yeah it does matter. I am not inclined to pay for my account with alphas being so powerful. I mean that gnosis fit is just a bit less than the ferox fit I have been flying with. Plus I can buy huge amounts of them with the money I save. I don't usually fly things bigger than a bc anyway. Sure some of my alliance fleet stuff will be out, but they will develop alpha doctrines and if we end up in a serious war I can plex the account for the month or 2. Honestly, like teckos Pech I didnGÇÖt realize just how powerful these alphas can be until I started screwing around with eft. Now I admit I would be sore if alphas can continue to farm pi and only gallente can fly epithals. Basically giving gallente and only gallente pi will be a huge kick to other races - do you agree? Other than that itGÇÖs no big deal. I will just play a gallente alt I have instead of my main. Do I agree? Yes and no... Are Alphas better than people think? Yes... Do I think Gal is better at PvP, and Cal is better at Missions? Yes again, but this is nothing new... Do I think its Gal or nothing? No, a Cal pilot can still PvP just fine, yes he will be less effective than a Gal pilot, but he can still get work done... I do agree that some skills need to be evened out like Drones as it hurts Caracel. Do I think Alphas are good enough to give up the Omega life? That depends on the individual and what they want out of EVE, but for the most part I say no, Alpha clones are not the way to live is you can help it.
Those are all fair answers. I think we disagree on the importance of the gnosis. But I admit it's possible that they will become prohibitively expensive in the future. Plus some of the navy cruisers and other ships are still pretty strong and not as unbalanced as the gnosis ends up being.
We can agree to disagree on whether alphas are too strong. As much as I am happy to save the few hundred dollars I spend on subscriptions every year, I think for ccp's good they should tone them down. Maybe cruiser 3 instead of cruiser 4 and also maybe only meta damage mods - I don't have enough information to give a full answer. But I think allot of people will be just fine saving money and not flying the blingy ships.
I also think pi on more than one planet with the advanced skills should be a no go even if you set up the pi as an alpha. My question was about pi in particular. I doubt you do pi because if you did you know how important the epithal is. There are some ifs in what I say. I assume the alphas will be able to access the pi factories etc. But if they are able to access them (honestly I hope they won't be able to access pi - for ccps sake) then ccp should do something about the epithal. Either give other races an equivalent ship, or allow all to fly the epithal, or let us pick our alpha race set, etc..
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
3
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 17:03:40 -
[1391] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote:Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote: It doesn't matter what I compare, if your that sore about Gal vs Cal then its going to be bad for you no matter what.
Yeah it does matter. I am not inclined to pay for my account with alphas being so powerful. I mean that gnosis fit is just a bit less than the ferox fit I have been flying with. Plus I can buy huge amounts of them with the money I save. I don't usually fly things bigger than a bc anyway. Sure some of my alliance fleet stuff will be out, but they will develop alpha doctrines and if we end up in a serious war I can plex the account for the month or 2. Honestly, like teckos Pech I didnGÇÖt realize just how powerful these alphas can be until I started screwing around with eft. Now I admit I would be sore if alphas can continue to farm pi and only gallente can fly epithals. Basically giving gallente and only gallente pi will be a huge kick to other races - do you agree? Other than that itGÇÖs no big deal. I will just play a gallente alt I have instead of my main. Do I agree? Yes and no... Are Alphas better than people think? Yes... Do I think Gal is better at PvP, and Cal is better at Missions? Yes again, but this is nothing new... Do I think its Gal or nothing? No, a Cal pilot can still PvP just fine, yes he will be less effective than a Gal pilot, but he can still get work done... I do agree that some skills need to be evened out like Drones as it hurts Caracel. Do I think Alphas are good enough to give up the Omega life? That depends on the individual and what they want out of EVE, but for the most part I say no, Alpha clones are not the way to live is you can help it. Those are all fair answers. I think we disagree on the importance of the gnosis. But I admit it's possible that they will become prohibitively expensive in the future. Plus some of the navy cruisers and other ships are still pretty strong and not as unbalanced as the gnosis ends up being. We can agree to disagree on whether alphas are too strong. As much as I am happy to save the few hundred dollars I spend on subscriptions every year, I think for ccp's good they should tone them down. Maybe cruiser 3 instead of cruiser 4 and also maybe only meta damage mods - I don't have enough information to give a full answer. But I think allot of people will be just fine saving money and not flying the blingy ships. I also think pi on more than one planet with the advanced skills should be a no go even if you set up the pi as an alpha. My question was about pi in particular. I doubt you do pi because if you did you know how important the epithal is. There are some ifs in what I say. I assume the alphas will be able to access the pi factories etc. But if they are able to access them (honestly I hope they won't be able to access pi - for ccps sake) then ccp should do something about the epithal. Either give other races an equivalent ship, or allow all to fly the epithal, or let us pick our alpha race set, etc..
Oh I agree on the Gnosis, it's the key to Alphas running level 3, and possible level 4 missions, but it is as you hint a limited item... The Alpha Cruiser performance is low enough imo with only a few exceptions, if you want to tone down Alphas more I'd rather see Cruisers gone and beef up their Frig/Dessy skills instead, which would also kill Gnosis skills too.
I don't have an answer with the PI debate, it is a touchy subject which I'm sure will get hammered out by the end of the year at the latest. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1478
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 17:49:15 -
[1392] - Quote
Namaan wrote:
I don't have an answer with the PI debate, it is a touchy subject which I'm sure will get hammered out by the end of the year at the latest, as for the epithal thats not something Alphas can use iirc.
In eft you can use them when you plug in the gallente alpha skills.
I would say you probably can use them but it is not confirmed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/50ml92/can_alpha_clones_fly_a_gnosis/
Gnosis is not a cruiser destroyer or frigate yet alphas can fly it. So the logic seems to be as long as you have the skills you can fly it regardless of that initial claimed restraint. But again its not confirmed.
In all the feedback I have not even gotten the sense that ccp is aware of an issue with pi. They have not even so much have said "yeah we are still not sure what we will do with PI."
Your idea of limiting the skills to destroyers or frigates seems good to me.
Or they could allow new players to go up to slightly higher levels for the first 6 months or something (maybe even cruiser 5) call it a beta clone and then after 6 months things would go back down to alpha clone with lower skills. I really think they are going to lose allot of subs with alphas being this strong.
But then again omegas can probably plex their account just by skill training and selling injectors. But then again that market is beginning to settle in where it is not so profitable and who knows what will happen to plex prices. My *guess* is subscriptions will drop dramatically and plex prices will go up because more people will just want omegas for a month or so.
The guy from industry has concerns and I am not familiar with that. But I wonder if you can put very long jobs in with your omega and then just use a plex every 3 months or so.
trade alts might be able to put trades in as an omega and then just use a plex before the 90 days expires. In the meantime I think they can still modify their trades. So again there would be little point in subbing for more than a month every now and then. Same with PI.
I hope ccp is thinking this through better than their dev blogs let on. Something like this could drop them in the red real fast.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
106
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 18:38:04 -
[1393] - Quote
Namaan wrote:Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote:Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote: It doesn't matter what I compare, if your that sore about Gal vs Cal then its going to be bad for you no matter what.
Yeah it does matter. I am not inclined to pay for my account with alphas being so powerful. I mean that gnosis fit is just a bit less than the ferox fit I have been flying with. Plus I can buy huge amounts of them with the money I save. I don't usually fly things bigger than a bc anyway. Sure some of my alliance fleet stuff will be out, but they will develop alpha doctrines and if we end up in a serious war I can plex the account for the month or 2. Honestly, like teckos Pech I didnGÇÖt realize just how powerful these alphas can be until I started screwing around with eft. Now I admit I would be sore if alphas can continue to farm pi and only gallente can fly epithals. Basically giving gallente and only gallente pi will be a huge kick to other races - do you agree? Other than that itGÇÖs no big deal. I will just play a gallente alt I have instead of my main. Do I agree? Yes and no... Are Alphas better than people think? Yes... Do I think Gal is better at PvP, and Cal is better at Missions? Yes again, but this is nothing new... Do I think its Gal or nothing? No, a Cal pilot can still PvP just fine, yes he will be less effective than a Gal pilot, but he can still get work done... I do agree that some skills need to be evened out like Drones as it hurts Caracel. Do I think Alphas are good enough to give up the Omega life? That depends on the individual and what they want out of EVE, but for the most part I say no, Alpha clones are not the way to live is you can help it. Those are all fair answers. I think we disagree on the importance of the gnosis. But I admit it's possible that they will become prohibitively expensive in the future. Plus some of the navy cruisers and other ships are still pretty strong and not as unbalanced as the gnosis ends up being. We can agree to disagree on whether alphas are too strong. As much as I am happy to save the few hundred dollars I spend on subscriptions every year, I think for ccp's good they should tone them down. Maybe cruiser 3 instead of cruiser 4 and also maybe only meta damage mods - I don't have enough information to give a full answer. But I think allot of people will be just fine saving money and not flying the blingy ships. I also think pi on more than one planet with the advanced skills should be a no go even if you set up the pi as an alpha. My question was about pi in particular. I doubt you do pi because if you did you know how important the epithal is. There are some ifs in what I say. I assume the alphas will be able to access the pi factories etc. But if they are able to access them (honestly I hope they won't be able to access pi - for ccps sake) then ccp should do something about the epithal. Either give other races an equivalent ship, or allow all to fly the epithal, or let us pick our alpha race set, etc.. Oh I agree on the Gnosis, it's the key to Alphas running level 3, and possible level 4 missions, but it is as you hint a limited item... The Alpha Cruiser performance is low enough imo with only a few exceptions, if you want to tone down Alphas more I'd rather see Cruisers gone and beef up their Frig/Dessy skills instead, which would also kill Gnosis skills too. I don't have an answer with the PI debate, it is a touchy subject which I'm sure will get hammered out by the end of the year at the latest, as for the epithal thats not something Alphas can use iirc.
The T2 rigs requirement is not met but the Gnosis fit should still work.
As for the PI If it continues running without active subscription :-
If the 14 day trial account is still in place then 3 toons with an addition month subs to train up to a reasonable level. Get them into a wormhole with OK planets and let the subs lapse - set the pi to run for a week and collect the goods every few weeks or when the poco is full. For extra income be sure to train just a little for ME & TE research to add more isk to the pot.
Upkeep would be prior to logging on for your 'normal' game. Log onto 3 alphas reset extractors and if required run to POCOs to collect the goods - say 15mins a day - funnel the goods to your factory planet Main.
Turn over period 7 days so that's 21 alphas for passive pi income - say 200 mill each = 4.2 billion + the 82 BPO's being researched should add another billion a month.
Of course, for the more OCD players, 30 min a day with 42 alphas = 8.4 billion.
YES - CCP will need to do something about farming subs-lapsed alphas for PI -
Maybe disable spaceport transfer to POCO and only allow command center launches ? |
Namaan
Midnight Elites
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 18:47:45 -
[1394] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Namaan wrote:
I don't have an answer with the PI debate, it is a touchy subject which I'm sure will get hammered out by the end of the year at the latest, as for the epithal thats not something Alphas can use iirc.
In eft you can use them when you plug in the gallente alpha skills. I would say you probably can use them but it is not confirmed. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/50ml92/can_alpha_clones_fly_a_gnosis/ Gnosis is not a cruiser destroyer or frigate yet alphas can fly it. So the logic seems to be as long as you have the skills you can fly it regardless of that initial claimed restraint. But again its not confirmed. In all the feedback I have not even gotten the sense that ccp is aware of an issue with pi. They have not even so much have said "yeah we are still not sure what we will do with PI." Your idea of limiting the skills to destroyers or frigates seems good to me. Or they could allow new players to go up to slightly higher levels for the first 6 months or something (maybe even cruiser 5) call it a beta clone and then after 6 months things would go back down to alpha clone with lower skills. I really think they are going to lose allot of subs with alphas being this strong. But then again omegas can probably plex their account just by skill training and selling injectors. But then again that market is beginning to settle in where it is not so profitable and who knows what will happen to plex prices. My *guess* is subscriptions will drop dramatically and plex prices will go up because more people will just want omegas for a month or so. The guy from industry has concerns and I am not familiar with that. But I wonder if you can put very long jobs in with your omega and then just use a plex every 3 months or so. trade alts might be able to put trades in as an omega and then just use a plex before the 90 days expires. In the meantime I think they can still modify their trades. So again there would be little point in subbing for more than a month every now and then. Same with PI. I hope ccp is thinking this through better than their dev blogs let on. Something like this could drop them in the red real fast.
What I meant by would kill the Gnosis build is if you drop Cruisers from Alphas then you would lose med mods too... you gonna fly a Gnosis with only small mods? |
Nire Retipuj
The Dutch East India Company Fidelas Constans
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 19:18:38 -
[1395] - Quote
Troubled Basterd wrote:The current plex prices are making me think about quiting Eve. I'm afraid a big increas of alpha toons will create a sizeable demand for plex. Higher demand = higher plex prices. When you made plex a payment for method for other stuf than game time the plex price has gone up (giving the rich an isk sink). Pleas figure out a model where the plex prices go down. That will make a lot of ppl (or secondairy acounts) return. Woohoo, infinit crashing toons for wh space \o/ Fly save, Tb. (spelling control aint working, sorry)
Agreed! I purchased PLEX in game when the price was about 680mil ISK. I do not purchase PLEX in game at all anymore. I have done the math and the price of PLEX in game is NOT comparable to the time it takes for one maxed out Hulk Pilot to mine the equivalent in ore. That is MY benchmark for deciding whether or not ten +/- days of mining is worth 20 days of actually doing other things in Eve. I still mine for ore but not for buying PLEX in game anymore. As far as I am concerned, PLEX is only good for SELLING in game to have more ISK quicker than any in game option of acquiring ISK. I want more ISK? Spend $20 USD. That is the only use I have for PLEX now. The high price gouging of PLEX in game has broken the feature to a certain degree. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1478
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 19:30:02 -
[1396] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:
The T2 rigs requirement is not met but the Gnosis fit should still work.
As for the PI If it continues running without active subscription :-
If the 14 day trial account is still in place then 3 toons with an addition month subs to train up to a reasonable level. Get them into a wormhole with OK planets and let the subs lapse - set the pi to run for a week and collect the goods every few weeks or when the poco is full. For extra income be sure to train just a little for ME & TE research to add more isk to the pot.
Upkeep would be prior to logging on for your 'normal' game. Log onto 3 alphas reset extractors and if required run to POCOs to collect the goods - say 15mins a day - funnel the goods to your factory planet Main.
Turn over period 7 days so that's 21 alphas for passive pi income - say 200 mill each = 4.2 billion + the 82 BPO's being researched should add another billion a month.
Of course, for the more OCD players, 30 min a day with 42 alphas = 8.4 billion.
YES - CCP will need to do something about farming subs-lapsed alphas for PI -
Maybe disable spaceport transfer to POCO and only allow command center launches ?
The problem would be neckbeards with 200 alphas running pi. And if alphas can run strip mining planets then they likely can run factory planets after they are set up as an omega. The planetology and adv planetology skills have no value for factory planets so alphas would actually be best suited for those.
The unemployed would kill the game for those of us who try to occasionally do some work for a living.
As much as i would like to say give an alpha a single planet and be able to run it with command 4 with interplanetary connections, there will be guys who make a hundred accounts and each alpha would run a planet. I hope ccp realizes 1) lots of their subs are due to pi and 2) running pi isn't really what new players join eve for anyway. Allowing alphas to run pi will just mean cheap vets with no life or money, will drive the rest out.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Nire Retipuj
The Dutch East India Company Fidelas Constans
2
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 19:39:07 -
[1397] - Quote
"1) Set up a free to play server that is separate from TQ. 2) No restrictions on this server 3) No customer support for this server. You want customer support you have to pay for it. 4) No plexes or skill injectors on this server. 5) The server is wiped clean every 6 months. 6) At any time you may transfer your character and your assets to TQ with your character in its current state. The cost of this transfer is that you buy a 1 month sub plus $5 transfer fee. The transfer fee is waived with a 3 month sub or more.
Play your heart out free player. When your sick of being reset, come join us on TQ. Otherwise take all the time you need to learn game mechanics. You could also leave the trial up on TQ as is and give people that option. "
^^ ^^ O O
THIS !!
|
Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 01:19:07 -
[1398] - Quote
Nire Retipuj wrote:"1) Set up a free to play server that is separate from TQ. 2) No restrictions on this server 3) No customer support for this server. You want customer support you have to pay for it. 4) No plexes or skill injectors on this server. 5) The server is wiped clean every 6 months. 6) At any time you may transfer your character and your assets to TQ with your character in its current state. The cost of this transfer is that you buy a 1 month sub plus $5 transfer fee. The transfer fee is waived with a 3 month sub or more.
Play your heart out free player. When your sick of being reset, come join us on TQ. Otherwise take all the time you need to learn game mechanics. You could also leave the trial up on TQ as is and give people that option. "
^^ ^^ O O
THIS !!
Wow, not a terrible idea... |
Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
19
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 01:58:55 -
[1399] - Quote
Looks like Christmas is coming early this year boys.
Checklist for november
1. Unsub my PI accounts 2. Unsub my 'Eyes' account 3. Unsub my Indy account 4. Create free alpha accounts 'Eyes' for every system. 5. Create free Merlin anti Venture gank alpha alts. they will need to be kept in check 6. Create LP Mcfarm Swarm.
@CCP- dont think its not going to happen. You should really put some thought into this.
|
Siera Bobs
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 03:45:41 -
[1400] - Quote
Remove Industry from alphas,
1 - install eve on my gf`s lappy 2- stock up on minerals and researched blueprints 3- make alphas and train indy 4-trade bps and minerals to alphas 5-after a few months log back on alphas trade all the things back to main |
|
Siera Bobs
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 03:55:07 -
[1401] - Quote
and honestly i think the vets will be creating more alphas then actual new players, the biggest reason people stay away from EVE isnt the subscription , its the state of the universe - progression , while in any other MMO you can still catch up to the very first player that ever played the game in a reasonable ammount of time, its not the case here ... so they see it as "pointless"to even try it out. |
Clacker McDucky
11
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 17:30:31 -
[1402] - Quote
**********************************************
I think I feel a song coming on!
Nevermind...it was just gas. |
Morgals
Sturmgrenadier Inc Digital Vendetta
21
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 19:18:33 -
[1403] - Quote
Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.
Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.
I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3.
Looking for a mature, adult gaming community that has been active in EvE since 2004?Recruitment is open!
Come join our public channel and get to know us.
SG-Recruiting
|
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1479
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 20:28:11 -
[1404] - Quote
Morgals wrote:Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.
Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.
I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3.
Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalanced.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Morgals
Sturmgrenadier Inc Digital Vendetta
21
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 21:53:21 -
[1405] - Quote
Didn't even notice the lack of medium drones...so you can't even attempt to fully use the ships...
Yeah medium drones are not a nice to have but need to have.
Looking for a mature, adult gaming community that has been active in EvE since 2004?Recruitment is open!
Come join our public channel and get to know us.
SG-Recruiting
|
Rain6637
NulzSec
34219
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 04:06:38 -
[1406] - Quote
rabble rabble
oh wait. wrong thread
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 15:38:56 -
[1407] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Morgals wrote:Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.
Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.
I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3. Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalance.
Indeed, it's definitely an area that needs to be fixed... boost Drones on the 2 races, and drop alpha pi, problem solved. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5250
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 19:05:44 -
[1408] - Quote
Namaan wrote:Cearain wrote:Morgals wrote:Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.
Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.
I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3. Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalance. Indeed, it's definitely an area that needs to be fixed... boost Drones on the 2 races, and drop alpha pi, problem solved. Alphas don't need PI, as is they can do well enough with PvP, FW, plus some marketing, and mining, don't need PI too.
Unless something has changed, the Devblog does not include PI skills.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Namaan
Midnight Elites
5
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 19:14:50 -
[1409] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Namaan wrote:Cearain wrote:Morgals wrote:Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.
Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.
I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3. Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalance. Indeed, it's definitely an area that needs to be fixed... boost Drones on the 2 races, and drop alpha pi, problem solved. Alphas don't need PI, as is they can do well enough with PvP, FW, plus some marketing, and mining, don't need PI too. Unless something has changed, the Devblog does not include PI skills.
The unanswered questions are about Alphas running preset up PIs. |
Yak X
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 19:35:26 -
[1410] - Quote
I like the idea of ftp however my first tought was now i can have a free scout and pi , wich seems to be the main problem with this model.
Suggestion
State sponsored capsuleers.
Following the same logic of the racial skills, the objective is to narrow down the alpha clone functionality within the game.
example you create a new industrial character, wich will be sent to an industrial npc corp of the empire you choose, and indy alpha character will have a slower skill progression than an omega one, but it could also have a much slower progression on skills that are not necessary for industrial pourposes, the speed will be faster or slower according to how necessary they are for the chosen profession, and the difference will increase the more the alpha character specialices in its chosen profession, maybe even to the point of locking them out of some skills.
The skills available to train for the alpha clones could be tied to the an npc corporation, and only available when the standings are reached, this will not matter to someone playing the character on the job they choose, but will force anyone else to grind for the character skills.
There could be also tax and services walls between empires following the same logic, so if you are gallente you will pay the same as an omega clone in gallente space, but taxes will be higher depending on standings between your chosen character race and other factions, and no way to change this by doing missions, this will localize alpha clones to their chosen empire and eventualy npc corp in any profession, making them an npc sponsored capsuleer, like a cold faction warfare.
As the character progresses it will become more difficult to multirole and more specialized characters will be more difficult to get since they cannot be obtained afk, it might even allow for free characters to train for anything they want, within a narow path.
Alpha clones could get penalties for going against the npc faction they belong to, like loosing the skill funtionality, they could also join player corps but only if standings allow it.
Alpha clones cannot be bought.
P.s.- Add pirate factions to faction warfare and wis.
|
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5250
|
Posted - 2016.09.17 05:34:44 -
[1411] - Quote
Namaan wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Namaan wrote:Cearain wrote:Morgals wrote:Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.
Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.
I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3. Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalance. Indeed, it's definitely an area that needs to be fixed... boost Drones on the 2 races, and drop alpha pi, problem solved. Alphas don't need PI, as is they can do well enough with PvP, FW, plus some marketing, and mining, don't need PI too. Unless something has changed, the Devblog does not include PI skills. The unanswered questions are about Alphas running preset up PIs.
And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3586
|
Posted - 2016.09.17 07:24:53 -
[1412] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?
Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5250
|
Posted - 2016.09.17 09:03:36 -
[1413] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?
Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method.
And can they still access it without the skills?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Kaleic Karrif
rock shot industries Phoenix Company Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.17 12:45:57 -
[1414] - Quote
I applaud your decision to add alpha state to the game for some sort of Free to Play to the game. However I do have 1 concern with this.
I feel that the limitations may be too restrictive to be profitable for CCP and all around advantageous for the normal f2p gamer.
So while I understand CCP's approach to getting new and returning players back into the game and the goal is for a full subscription.
While this is a solid premise at the end of the day it would be more profitable to set in place a hard limitation to 1 Alpha account per Hardware Mac address, similar to what DayBreakGames did for their TrueBox servers where 1 Machine can only run 1 Client per connection, however multiple machines could be used. This would prevent free accounts from multi boxing and farming,
However I believe the ability for free accounts to reach a state of income where they can PLEX their account would increase the number of PLEX purchased thus increasing the overall income benefit of going F2P model. I am hugely against micro-purchases as I am sure the entire eve community is.
I believe that the ability to fly Mining Barges and use tech 1 strip miners would be sufficient income capability for players to farm up to earn a plex and utilizing a software similar to the TrueBox I mentioned earlier which blocks multiple accounts from running based on Machine Media Access Control address (MAC) would prevent this system from being exploited.
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Titokhan Drumheller
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.18 00:24:55 -
[1415] - Quote
I understand that with a 5 mil skillpoint cap on alphas, you want to give the soon to come f2p people a little variety.. and letting them raise more than a few skills to 5 will really eat into that..
now granted I'm about as old as they get character wise (but with my multiple multi-year hibernations means I dont quite have the SP base some people with 11 year old accounts have and i'm not quite up to speed on some things), but perhaps changing the max skills available to alphas based on career choices made at character creation could work better than a one size fits all approach
Example : a new f2p character creating say a Caldari passive shield tanking missile jockey (ok, I admit I'm using myself as a base here..) would lose some of the industrial/exploration/non main weapon max levels for higher caps on the skills they would be more likely to use.
would also appear its going to make race specific gear and ships available TO f2p'rs a lot more profitable, given lack of access to t2 and beyond.. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
408
|
Posted - 2016.09.18 01:15:30 -
[1416] - Quote
"Gone" won't quite mean what it used to. There was one guy in a certain other game who used to be on the top of what passed for killboards. One day, someone stepped on a third rail in the off-topic forum. He got squelched for something, think it had to do with stepping on a locally sensitive political topic.
He then went to another forum with his alts and tried to get the devs to pardon his main. He was gone, and so were all his alts. Well, not quite. The next day, there was a day-one newbie doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same forum, with exactly the same posting style. It was obvious the character wasn't being used to play the game, because in-game channels could look. Soapboxing all day about politics tends to make you a few "fans" with people who don't like what you have to say. Leaving that guy there cost the community of that game a few people. If we have to give CCP payment information to play the game, "banned" has a lot more teeth to it. If we don't, well... can't say you didn't know.
A signature :o
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3586
|
Posted - 2016.09.18 01:32:05 -
[1417] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: And can they still access it without the skills?
The Devs haven't properly answered what happens to skills after you revert to Alpha clones. They've said 'locked' but not explained what that actually means. Does it mean you get no bonuses from them at all. Does it mean you can't train them. Does it mean you can't fly ships on them. Etc. There are a lot of use cases that they haven't sufficiently expanded on as to how the lock works and what it means. |
Lord Mudeki
The Cuckoo Collective Dot Dot Dot
8
|
Posted - 2016.09.18 19:13:47 -
[1418] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And can they still access it without the skills?
The Devs haven't properly answered what happens to skills after you revert to Alpha clones. They've said 'locked' but not explained what that actually means. Does it mean you get no bonuses from them at all. Does it mean you can't train them. Does it mean you can't fly ships on them. Etc. There are a lot of use cases that they haven't sufficiently expanded on as to how the lock works and what it means.
By locked it means if your skills are higher then what the Alpha state allows then it will locked out the parts that are over the Alpha cap and you wont get any bonuses from anything above the cap, I mean what is there to explain its pretty self explanatory |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
380
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 10:45:58 -
[1419] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And can they still access it without the skills?
The Devs haven't properly answered what happens to skills after you revert to Alpha clones. They've said 'locked' but not explained what that actually means. Does it mean you get no bonuses from them at all. Does it mean you can't train them. Does it mean you can't fly ships on them. Etc. There are a lot of use cases that they haven't sufficiently expanded on as to how the lock works and what it means.
The question specifically about PI is that IF a player has already colony installed and fully functional can he keep using the colony regardless of NOT having the skills needed to make another one?
It would, in theory, be easy to test by ripping out the PI skills of a character having the PI setup going using the skill extractor. IF these skills can be extracted in the current live server. Even if they can not be extracted currently that would mean that there has been some technical difficulty in this regard and CCP has thought about it in the past.
Third option is that while CCP has considered the implications the final version of Alphas will roll out as it is while they hope to clamp down the PI "issue" in some further release. Which might mean that some number of Alphas would sub to set up PI farming and then revert back to Alpha only to have the carpet yanked out under them few months later with a message - this was never intended to be possible, so sorry for your loss and link to the HTFU video ;)
I suspect we will get more or less exactly what is in the first devblog regardless of massive feedback and a lot of different ideas/opinions on the matter. They have been working on it apparently a bit over a year and it's far too close to November for them to do any kind of radical design changes to this feature.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Satchel Darkmatter
Massive Dynamic inc. Care Factor
16
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 11:20:12 -
[1420] - Quote
Siera Bobs wrote:and honestly i think the vets will be creating more alphas then actual new players, the biggest reason people stay away from EVE isnt the subscription , its the state of the universe - progression , while in any other MMO you can still catch up to the very first player that ever played the game in a reasonable ammount of time, its not the case here ... so they see it as "pointless"to even try it out.
As a newer player I actually felt and still feel this, I still look around at the guys in corp talking about flying things like carriers and it sounds amazing, then I look at the skill training time and its like a year and I instantly feel like you describe, why even bother.
I am all but 100% sure that actual real alpha clones will have this very same feeling as soon as they realize that the bigger ships are a staggering amount of time away, and it only compounds and makes matters worse when they understand that getting into and actually having the skills to properly use the thing involves even more time.
I'm not against real time training, its one of the cool things about EvE, I do think that the larger training times could be tweaked and balanced to shorten the time needed to get into them.
No matter how you look at it, a new player reading the stories of epic battles and coming to try the game expecting to get involved in those big battles will be sorely disappointing when they realise the above fact. |
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Bagatur I
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
76
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 12:06:47 -
[1421] - Quote
ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas. |
Samuel Nathas
Disciples of Red Tower Domain Research and Mining Inst.
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 16:25:49 -
[1422] - Quote
Will the alpha clones be available on Sisi for testing purposes before being released in November? I bet that some of us would like to see the changes in skill times (if any), queue limitations (if any) and some other options related to using alpha clones.
Have you decided on how many alpha clone clients we will be able to run on one computer?
Also, have you taken into consideration to allow Caldari and Minmatar races one more additional level of drones skill? I do realize that of all Caldari ships only Osprey can field 4 light drones, however all of Minmatar cruisers can field 25 and more m3 of drones (it goes up to 45 m3). Same is with Navy variants of cruisers.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5263
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 18:17:46 -
[1423] - Quote
Bagatur I wrote:ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas.
And even if we did...so what?
Players in game make for more content.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3590
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 19:55:55 -
[1424] - Quote
Bagatur I wrote:ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas. Except for the bit where CCP have said they are 'considering if they need to implement login restrictions'. Meaning that currently they don't have a login limitation.
And for why this is a bad thing Teckos, because they wouldn't be 'Players' in game. More players (who are worth interacting with and not spewing bile) are a good thing I agree. However each system becoming 100 alts of the same player is a bad thing. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5263
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 20:24:25 -
[1425] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Bagatur I wrote:ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas. Except for the bit where CCP have said they are 'considering if they need to implement login restrictions'. Meaning that currently they don't have a login limitation. And for why this is a bad thing Teckos, because they wouldn't be 'Players' in game. More players (who are worth interacting with and not spewing bile) are a good thing I agree. However each system becoming 100 alts of the same player is a bad thing.
And why would this happen given the severe limitations already placed on them? You are assuming it will happen, so you must have some idea of what is going to ensure this will happen. Explain this "thing" that will ensure this.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3590
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 21:12:13 -
[1426] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: And why would this happen given the severe limitations already placed on them? You are assuming it will happen, so you must have some idea of what is going to ensure this will happen. Explain this "thing" that will ensure this.
*points at the last 70 pages* People have already put a bunch of ways to abuse Alpha clones with the current limitations (assuming no limit on accounts) into this thread. RTFT. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1480
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 21:39:50 -
[1427] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?
Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method. And can they still access it without the skills?
That is the question for ccp.
Can they restart extractors? Can they move pi to the customs office? Can they get pi out of customs office? Can they put extractors and factories at long cycles and have them keep working? Or does it all just shut down and gray out when the account sub runs?
I hope it is the last is the answer, but we shall see.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
684
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 02:46:45 -
[1428] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?
Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method. And can they still access it without the skills? That is the question for ccp. Can they restart extractors? Can they move pi to the customs office? Can they get pi out of customs office? Can they put extractors and factories at long cycles and have them keep working? Or does it all just shut down and gray out when the account sub runs? I hope it is the last is the answer, but we shall see. Can you skill extract this yourself on the *test* server real quick, and see the results yourself?
I'm not being nasty or anything, I don't have PI on any character or I'd test it myself. Since you seem to know, I assume you have characters that do. Test server should be safe to try that out with, so maybe you could run the test and post on this thread about how it worked out?
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5263
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 04:48:19 -
[1429] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And why would this happen given the severe limitations already placed on them? You are assuming it will happen, so you must have some idea of what is going to ensure this will happen. Explain this "thing" that will ensure this.
*points at the last 70 pages* People have already put a bunch of ways to abuse Alpha clones with the current limitations (assuming no limit on accounts) into this thread. RTFT.
I'm sorry but that is a **** explanation.
I can't tell you how many threads I have seen where it is, "Great CCP you just killed 'X'!!!!"
Hell it happened in this thread, "This will crash the SP injector market." If this were a serious thing then said market would already be crashed....and oh...no, last time I checked there was no crash.
All these apocalyptic prognostications fail to materialize.
Please, point to something that is at least somewhat more solid that we toilet paper.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1480
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 15:55:01 -
[1430] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Cearain wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?
Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method. And can they still access it without the skills? That is the question for ccp. Can they restart extractors? Can they move pi to the customs office? Can they get pi out of customs office? Can they put extractors and factories at long cycles and have them keep working? Or does it all just shut down and gray out when the account sub runs? I hope it is the last is the answer, but we shall see. Can you skill extract this yourself on the *test* server real quick, and see the results yourself? I'm not being nasty or anything, I don't have PI on any character or I'd test it myself. Since you seem to know, I assume you have characters that do. Test server should be safe to try that out with, so maybe you could run the test and post on this thread about how it worked out?
My testing was done on only on tranquility but I assume it would be the same on sisi. You can't extract interplanetary consolidation even if you are using fewer planets than your skill level allows. You also can not extract command center upgrades if you have any planets already using that level.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3595
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 20:28:44 -
[1431] - Quote
Cearain wrote: My testing was done on only on tranquility but I assume it would be the same on sisi. You can't extract interplanetary consolidation even if you are using fewer planets than your skill level allows. You also can not extract command center upgrades if you have any planets already using that level.
From what I recall, this was because they had real issues stopping PI when extracted. This may mean they will also have real issues with alpha clones & PI. Or it may be different. |
Aurelius Oshidashi
Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council.
15
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 19:20:25 -
[1432] - Quote
Satchel Darkmatter wrote:Siera Bobs wrote:and honestly i think the vets will be creating more alphas then actual new players, the biggest reason people stay away from EVE isnt the subscription , its the state of the universe - progression , while in any other MMO you can still catch up to the very first player that ever played the game in a reasonable ammount of time, its not the case here ... so they see it as "pointless"to even try it out. As a newer player I actually felt and still feel this, I still look around at the guys in corp talking about flying things like carriers and it sounds amazing, then I look at the skill training time and its like a year and I instantly feel like you describe, why even bother. I am all but 100% sure that actual real alpha clones will have this very same feeling as soon as they realize that the bigger ships are a staggering amount of time away, and it only compounds and makes matters worse when they understand that getting into and actually having the skills to properly use the thing involves even more time. I'm not against real time training, its one of the cool things about EvE, I do think that the larger training times could be tweaked and balanced to shorten the time needed to get into them. No matter how you look at it, a new player reading the stories of epic battles and coming to try the game expecting to get involved in those big battles will be sorely disappointing when they realise the above fact.
You don't understand how it works dude. YouTube is full of proof that new players can easily defeat the old ones, that's because skills don't matter that much. It's much more about tactics and working together as a team.
To fly the biggest of the biggest ships you indeed need quite a long time of training, but you need this time anyway to get a feel for the mechanics of one of the most complex games ever made. If you do want to be foolish and fly a big ship early in your career, you can use skill injectors and catch up to any veteran in game. And loose your bling ship in the process probably!
Time is ISK. With ISK you can buy anything, except experience and knowledge, the most valuable things in this game next to flying with good ppl.
I don't mean it harsh, cause I get why you think this way, but you give a completely wrong depiction of how this game works and that my friend, should delight you, as the way towards getting mentioned valuable things is a very entertaining journey indeed. All the best to you! |
Kaleic Karrif
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 21:04:03 -
[1433] - Quote
The Alpha Idea is a great idea at the end of the Day however I would advise adding a CreateMutex function to the games coding to prevent multiple applications from running on a single machine & to add VMWare Detection or anti VMWare aspects.
After all that is said and done, The Alpha accounts are going to be a good thing for eve with exception to the possibility for more isk spammers, scammers and yes even pirate gankers.
I Do agree with the Safty Enabled option for Alpha accounts as the default, however I believe it would be detrimental to remove their chat access. I would advise to place an ISK requirement per zone to use local chat something like 1 - 10 Million ISK to speak in Local chat. per system. Corp chat can be free, Private channel chat can also be free. To take away a new players chat is a crippling move to their ability to learn the game.
I would also advise further changes to the Tutorial system. I have brought 3 new players in in just the last week and the new tutorial is harder than the original as it does not specify that you can complete the tasks ANYWHERE people believe they must only complete them in the spot they are at there should be, add something to help them realize what to do.
Add more training for Overview use.
Aside from that I am happy to see changes to increase player population.
|
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
696
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 19:23:56 -
[1434] - Quote
Could we have a bit of quick clarification regarding one of CCP Seagull's answers in her Q&A with Ashterothi regarding PI?
When the question came up regarding things like PI, the wording could be taken either way. Is PI being seen as something that is definitely exploitable, and will thus be disabled on Alpha clones? Or is the current plan to take a wait-and-see approach with PI, to see if it becomes exploitable?
You can get two or three solid PI chars in 30 days, depending on whether you need Customs Code Expertise. If it isn't already seen as exploitable to sub once and walk away with two or three passive income-makers for the rest of the game, it really should be reconsidered.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
746
|
Posted - 2016.09.24 12:34:08 -
[1435] - Quote
I can create combat effective fleets out of t1 frigates and cruisers. If you let us play multiple alpha clones, this thing will scale to infinity.
Economy wise, I can imagine the vexor spam, they don't even have the price of plex as overheads!
Also, venture spam: the only limiting factor is CPU power.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
746
|
Posted - 2016.09.24 13:04:18 -
[1436] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Bagatur I wrote:ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas. Except for the bit where CCP have said they are 'considering if they need to implement login restrictions'. Meaning that currently they don't have a login limitation. And for why this is a bad thing Teckos, because they wouldn't be 'Players' in game. More players (who are worth interacting with and not spewing bile) are a good thing I agree. However each system becoming 100 alts of the same player is a bad thing.
I think alphas need to work the same way trial accounts do in restricting multiple logins, otherwise it becomes a FREE ALT SPAM mechanic.
If you think the alt spam won't happen, you're forgetting what game you're playing. Every veteran, who knows the meaning of the term opportunity cost, will make full use of this. If I am invested in this game, I can't afford not to use a billion free alts if you make the option available. I would rather prefer not to do it, but if circumstances dictate that it is the path to the most profit, I'll do it.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5276
|
Posted - 2016.09.25 05:44:00 -
[1437] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:I can create combat effective fleets out of t1 frigates and cruisers. If you let us play multiple alpha clones, this thing will scale to infinity.
Economy wise, I can imagine the vexor spam, they don't even have the price of plex as overheads!
Also, venture spam: the only limiting factor is CPU power.
If alphas are like trial accounts: you cant log in multiple alphas at once to grind isk or fight - then things would be far more sane.
Please yes...the ganking opportunities are boundless. :P
On a more serious note, yes it seems some sort of limit on the number of alpha accounts logged in at one time might be a wise decision.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Tarkk Prime
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.25 17:10:26 -
[1438] - Quote
Will Alpha clones be able to use the contract system? |
Alotta Fagiina
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 07:49:32 -
[1439] - Quote
So if we already have an active account, doe this mean other alts on same account cant use there skills they have trained for specific tasks?
Or does this only apply to completely unsubbed accounts? |
Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 07:58:45 -
[1440] - Quote
Alotta Fagiina wrote:So if we already have an active account, doe this mean other alts on same account cant use there skills they have trained for specific tasks?
Or does this only apply to completely unsubbed accounts?
It only applies to unsubbed accounts, any subbed account has 3 Omegas, unsubbed account equals 3 Alphas.
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Alotta Fagiina
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 08:38:44 -
[1441] - Quote
Ok thanks thats good to know. |
Sugar Smacks
State War Academy Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 20:09:12 -
[1442] - Quote
Welcome to constant suicide ganks of everyone.
Why not? This is good just for the LOLS, you don't need profit, seriously. People have this Impression "you could have trial accounts before", sure sure, but I couldn't have somewhat trained characters with an unlimited amount of time to search targets.
On top of that you can literally have so many If you lose enough reputation you just send off the belongings and drop the account.
Then on top of this they are mass welcoming in the ISK sellers. You think ISK selling is a problem now? Get ready for a 50000x increase.
Every trade hub will now be 2 messages on scamming followed by 1 message of ISK selling.
CCP must have high expectations to stop these things, but I have yet to see any free to play game be successful at.
Try not to be too busy combating these things because at the same time everyone will be trying as many exploits as possible on these accounts since getting banned is a LOL when it comes to such things on free accounts. If you are not banning people for masking their IP addresses you are truly in for a ride. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5285
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 20:16:46 -
[1443] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:Welcome to constant suicide ganks of everyone.
Why not? This is good just for the LOLS, you don't need profit, seriously. People have this Impression "you could have trial accounts before", sure sure, but I couldn't have somewhat trained characters with an unlimited amount of time to search targets.
On top of that you can literally have so many If you lose enough reputation you just send off the belongings and drop the account.
Then on top of this they are mass welcoming in the ISK sellers. You think ISK selling is a problem now? Get ready for a 50000x increase.
Every trade hub will now be 2 messages on scamming followed by 1 message of ISK selling.
CCP must have high expectations to stop these things, but I have yet to see any free to play game be successful at.
Try not to be too busy combating these things because at the same time everyone will be trying as many exploits as possible on these accounts since getting banned is a LOL when it comes to such things on free accounts. If you are not banning people for masking their IP addresses you are truly in for a ride.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3618
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 20:24:16 -
[1444] - Quote
Try reading the minutes, it sounds like CCP are going to be limiting them to 1 free account per person, so they aren't going to be significantly used for ganking, as the set up to avoid detection is likely to cost far more to maintain than actually paying for a few ganking accounts. additionally isk selling in EVE is combated via Plex, and has been effectively for quite some time. Subscription only games without a plex equivalent have always been hit by gold sellers hard, the plex gives people a legal outlet for it and most people being risk averse don't gamble on avoiding detection when there is a legal means. |
Autumn Equinox
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
17
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 20:38:16 -
[1445] - Quote
Please excuse me if this has been answered some ware else in this thread.
Dual Training accounts. - Will dual training account holders be able to login (connect) twice from November ?
It seams unfair, if a free Alpha can login, but a paying account giving double the normal revenue to CCP cannot login twice on different characters while the dual training is active. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3618
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 20:44:47 -
[1446] - Quote
Autumn Equinox wrote:Please excuse me if this has been answered some ware else in this thread.
Dual Training accounts. - Will dual training account holders be able to login (connect) twice from November ?
It seams unfair, if a free Alpha can login, but a paying account giving double the normal revenue to CCP cannot login twice on different characters while the dual training is active. No, you won't be able to. Arguments answered many times many places. |
Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 05:46:52 -
[1447] - Quote
What I would really appreciate with this alpha and omega clone states is to allow the free account to have some sort of access to Cynosural Field Generators.
I mean right now to be a JF pilot it is required to have two accounts cooperate. Hauling is an important industry but Eve is limiting the involvement of that activity to full time players that can dedicate the time to fund multiple accounts.
Yes there are some activities that need to be tied to corporation involvement, but JF hauling isn't one of them and so should not require two full paid accounts in order to use.
I do admit that there should be benefits to using the full account, however, such as more efficient modules, shorter wait time etc, but some sort of access should be given to the free account, even if it is in the form of some disposable structure that blows up after a single use. |
Kaivarian Coste
Beyond Imports and Exports
85
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 15:25:36 -
[1448] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Try reading the minutes, it sounds like CCP are going to be limiting them to 1 free account per person
Where is this?
I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1480
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 16:52:44 -
[1449] - Quote
Kaivarian Coste wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Try reading the minutes, it sounds like CCP are going to be limiting them to 1 free account per person Where is this? I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.
The minutes were unclear. I don't think they are going to limit free accounts to one per person because that would mean your omega accounts would be wiped when you are no subscribed.
Do you mean only one free account logged in at a time?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5286
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 16:58:28 -
[1450] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Kaivarian Coste wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Try reading the minutes, it sounds like CCP are going to be limiting them to 1 free account per person Where is this? I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP. The minutes were unclear. I don't think they are going to limit free accounts to one per person because that would mean your omega accounts would be wiped when you are no subscribed. Do you mean only one free account logged in at a time?
Probably the latter if they can figure that out...which is probably doable. This would put to rest most of the fears people have about alpha clones--i.e. ganking.
As for PI I would hope they make the command center skill necessary for not just plopping down and upgrading the command center to to keep it running/operational. That way if an account goes alpha it cannot continue to do PI.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3618
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 21:40:20 -
[1451] - Quote
Kaivarian Coste wrote:
Where is this?
I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.
It's not a direct quote but an inference from what they are saying. Why discuss detecting multiple clients if you have no plans to limit them in some way. Found under the CSM minutes of Clone States.
Quote:CCP Rise then moved back to how Size Matters is planning to deal with simultaneous logins. CCP Cognac outlined that they would use a different method to detect multiple clients than they use now. As Teckos said, it's likely just going to be on current logins, which assuming it's a limit of one alpha at a time, pretty much solves the ganking fears, since sure a dozen people can gank with alpha's, but that requires a dozen real people at least, not one guy multiboxing a bunch of free accounts. They are also setting up control over the safety in case it turns out that ganking explodes through the roof. But not initially implementing it. Again some inference. |
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
258
|
Posted - 2016.10.02 11:55:43 -
[1452] - Quote
Thank god for help solo play even just a little ita crazy that people have to pay for a second account just to play solo like having a scout alt for example. However its equally crazy that i have to pay an account subscription just to have a cyno alt. Yes thats right a plex a month just to jump my capital ship thats insane and im considering unsubbing my second account and not having a capital because its juts not value for money to be doing that.
So please please consider having the cyno skill added to the trainable skills in alpha clone. At the moment playing solo for people to be effective you need to buy a second a account and thats a big issue. And before people say join a corp yada yada well of course personally i am but like the stats say many people in corps i think ut was about 70% still play solo.
Again i dont see why i should pay for a second account to jump a capital about its just ridiculous of ccp to keep expecting players to.pay for that
All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1142
|
Posted - 2016.10.02 12:44:14 -
[1453] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Kaivarian Coste wrote:
Where is this?
I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.
It's not a direct quote but an inference from what they are saying. Why discuss detecting multiple clients if you have no plans to limit them in some way. Found under the CSM minutes of Clone States. Quote:CCP Rise then moved back to how Size Matters is planning to deal with simultaneous logins. CCP Cognac outlined that they would use a different method to detect multiple clients than they use now. As Teckos said, it's likely just going to be on current logins, which assuming it's a limit of one alpha at a time, pretty much solves the ganking fears, since sure a dozen people can gank with alpha's, but that requires a dozen real people at least, not one guy multiboxing a bunch of free accounts. They are also setting up control over the safety in case it turns out that ganking explodes through the roof. But not initially implementing it. Again some inference. I think both you and Techos may want to have another look at your numbers.
In a 0.7 system; ONE meta fit Catalyst = ONE dead Retriever or Covetor.
Right now a ganker does his thing and docks up to wait out the timer - Post Alpha, he just logs off one and logs in another "free" account. As many among the New Order and Code don't have to pay for the ships they use to gank, not having to pay for the characters is indeed likely to see a growth in the number of characters involved in ganking.
Simultaneous logins, is only a small part of the issue
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Wedgewood Simpson
Strategic Industries INC.
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.02 16:09:45 -
[1454] - Quote
All this worry around multiple gank accounts assumes there will be no implementation of "green safety only" in HS systems.
It's already been said, if I recall, that if this isn't there to start with, it's certainly an option to prevent exactly that happening. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5289
|
Posted - 2016.10.02 20:43:54 -
[1455] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Kaivarian Coste wrote:
Where is this?
I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.
It's not a direct quote but an inference from what they are saying. Why discuss detecting multiple clients if you have no plans to limit them in some way. Found under the CSM minutes of Clone States. Quote:CCP Rise then moved back to how Size Matters is planning to deal with simultaneous logins. CCP Cognac outlined that they would use a different method to detect multiple clients than they use now. As Teckos said, it's likely just going to be on current logins, which assuming it's a limit of one alpha at a time, pretty much solves the ganking fears, since sure a dozen people can gank with alpha's, but that requires a dozen real people at least, not one guy multiboxing a bunch of free accounts. They are also setting up control over the safety in case it turns out that ganking explodes through the roof. But not initially implementing it. Again some inference. I think both you and Techos may want to have another look at your numbers. In a 0.7 system; ONE meta fit Catalyst = ONE dead Retriever or Covetor. Right now a ganker does his thing and docks up to wait out the timer - Post Alpha, he just logs off one and logs in another "free" account. As many among the New Order and Code don't have to pay for the ships they use to gank, not having to pay for the characters is indeed likely to see a growth in the number of characters involved in ganking. Simultaneous logins, is only a small part of the issue
What a great way to rip off ganking groups. Make a bunch of free Alpha accounts, get some free ships, then transfer them over to your main, and take them to Jita and sell them at no cost.
Great idea!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1920
|
Posted - 2016.10.02 21:10:55 -
[1456] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: What a great way to rip off ganking groups. Make a bunch of free Alpha accounts, get some free ships, then transfer them over to your main, and take them to Jita and sell them at no cost.
Great idea!
that was sarcasm for sure but why the hell? Assuming gankers are not dumb your trick with getting free ship and just selling it will work only once. Assuming all profit you can get (less than 1 million per ship + fit) i would think even doing PI will be more profitable
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
832
|
Posted - 2016.10.02 21:21:21 -
[1457] - Quote
Wedgewood Simpson wrote:All this worry around multiple gank accounts assumes there will be no implementation of "green safety only" in HS systems. If there were I'd take offense. Enough with the HS snowflakes already- a gang of free Thrashers camping FW or cheapass Caracals roaming Provi would be equally disruptive; but of course only HS would be except? Pffff!
Not to mention an Alpha account can't really learn anything valuable is he's locked to green except running level IIs and mining.
Let 'em kick the can. If that means I can haz free Thrasher to shoot at free Catalyst I'll take my chances ;-) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3619
|
Posted - 2016.10.02 21:32:04 -
[1458] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: I think both you and Techos may want to have another look at your numbers.
In a 0.7 system; ONE meta fit Catalyst = ONE dead Retriever or Covetor.
Now work it out with alpha skills only. Most of the gankers doing this are far more skilled in the exact ganking skills than an alpha clone can be.
Also oh no, an alpha clone might be able to gank your barge? Why is this a problem? Even I who am normally on the anti ganker side don't want to change the number of players needed to gank, if anything I want to lower the number of players needed to gank. I just want to change the dynamic of ganking to a longer fight rather than a blink and it's over thing.
Alpha clones being able to gank is good, it means they are able to take part in an important part of EVE. It means they can fly ships in non gank PvP that feel like they are contributing real amounts of damage. But the important thing is is that one player can't swoop in and kill your entire mining fleet including the orca & freighter with just alpha clones. To do that they need a lot of friends, and if they have that many friends prepared to help, good on them. |
Josef Djugashvilis
3466
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 06:20:25 -
[1459] - Quote
Ganking has a long and honorable history in Eve, but I am not convinced that some one who pays to play is going to think it is acceptable for some one who plays for free to be able to gank them.
This is not a signature.
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Jasper Sinclair
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
41
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 13:24:41 -
[1460] - Quote
Has it been said at what level an alpha clone will start in each skill? Trying to make fits and buy skill books for newcomers to RvB will be easier if I knew exactly how they start.
Obligatory apology if this has already been answered.
Is there a way to see ONLY Dev posts in a thread?
Acting Blue CEO, Senior Combat Coordinator, admirer of Caracals
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Josef Djugashvilis
3468
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 14:35:46 -
[1461] - Quote
Double click on the Blue Label - should work, then double click on each Dev post blue label to advance to the next one.
If I remember correctly :)
This is not a signature.
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Jasper Sinclair
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
41
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 11:16:59 -
[1462] - Quote
Ty, it worked.
After working on cruiser fits it became apparent that Minmatar alphas are at as disadvantage compared to the other races because the Minmatar cruisers all have larger drone bays and drone bandwidths. A normal omega clone in a Minmatar cruiser gets a significant amount of dps from a mixed flight of medium and light drones, while an alpha clone is currently limited to 3 light drones total, thus his potential dps is restricted compared to other races. I suggest allowing Minmatar alphas to train light drones to 5 to compensate.
Acting Blue CEO, Senior Combat Coordinator, admirer of Caracals
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Welisa Aldent
The Minmatar Yakuza
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 14:03:48 -
[1463] - Quote
Pls CCP High sec in eve dosent need more gankers pls do so they Always need to fly in green safty mode..becouse ganking gona get out of hand, even more then it have now. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5290
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 20:38:21 -
[1464] - Quote
Welisa Aldent wrote:Pls CCP High sec in eve dosent need more gankers pls do so they Always need to fly in green safty mode..becouse ganking gona get out of hand, even more then it have now.
And btw what do we get? we the subs..so far its only the freeloaders that benefit from this..
I still get to pay and dosent get anything extra,sounds like a cheezy deal for us subs
Try not paying and see what you get.
No, we probably don't need more gankers, but the problem is there is not much else in the way of HS PvP that involves shooting people.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Cmdr Clawhammer
WYNX Industries Worlds United Fedo Force
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 08:09:38 -
[1465] - Quote
is there something new of using 1~3 acoounts together without subscription? Thanks for the information. |
Annir Janau
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 18:49:45 -
[1466] - Quote
"Note that you can still only train one character at a time, per account"
Objection! All this accomplishes is making me create a different account to train an alpha, causing nothing but more hassle and data on a server. Why? I'm not losing out on free alt skill training.
In fact, this will create more multiboxing / simul log ins. Since it's there, people will be tempted to use it.
All clones without subscription / training cert should should be allowed to train A skills. Also let skills legitimately trained while omega remain active.
This is the only fair and sensible setup. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3641
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 19:52:21 -
[1467] - Quote
Annir Janau wrote:"Note that you can still only train one character at a time, per account"
Objection! All this accomplishes is making me create a different account to train an alpha, causing nothing but more hassle and data on a server. Why? I'm not losing out on free alt skill training.
In fact, this will create more multiboxing / simul log ins. Since it's there, people will be tempted to use it.
All clones without subscription / training cert should should be allowed to train A skills.
This is the only fair and sensible setup. Kinda already answered since you won't be able to log an alpha in alongside any other account. |
Marc Crass
Interstellar Space Anomalies Department SHOVEL.OF.DEATH
1
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 00:31:01 -
[1468] - Quote
You have no answer for a key question in your FAQ - what need to change alpha to omega. Step by step for a dumb and newbies. And do not allow alpha: drones 5 (they can use some meta) and anchoring 2 to avoid structure and mobile abuse. Protect production guys and your new structures from zerg rush. Copying and reverse engineering for T3 must be defenitly restricted. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1144
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 00:43:36 -
[1469] - Quote
Annir Janau wrote:"Note that you can still only train one character at a time, per account"
Objection! All this accomplishes is making me create a different account to train an alpha, causing nothing but more hassle and data on a server. Why? I'm not losing out on free alt skill training.
In fact, this will create more multiboxing / simul log ins. Since it's there, people will be tempted to use it.
All clones without subscription / training cert should should be allowed to train A skills.
This is the only fair and sensible setup. 1. You can train up to 3 characters per account, you just have to pay for the training cues. You can't create an Alpha clone on an existing subscribed account but you can let that account lapse and then train an Alpha, I don't know why anyone would though.
2. As for your "objection", Alpha clones aren't about existing players creating new characters, they are about getting "new" players into the game. Something that is very much needed if Eve is to survive.
3. No-one will be multiboxing Alpha state characters. You can only log one in at a time.
4. Any character, subscribed or not, can train Alpha skills. All you need do is log it in and start a skill. You would probably find though, a character who has been subbed at some time will already have most Alpha skills trained.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2922
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 13:17:05 -
[1470] - Quote
So anyone who still thinks this is so great and will totally not look like p2w since it is marketed as "extended trial", please go to the test server and embrace the new extended trial regular/premium model where you wish you actually had an ingame ad-blocker for all the premium advertisement on every corner.
Good job trashing a quality game CCP, looks like you try to bring your only successful product down to the level of your other games.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Annir Janau
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 22:22:50 -
[1471] - Quote
Annir Janau wrote:"Note that you can still only train one character at a time, per account"
Objection! All this accomplishes is making me create a different account to train an alpha, causing nothing but more hassle and data on a server. Why? I'm not losing out on free alt skill training.
In fact, this will create more multiboxing / simul log ins. Since it's there, people will be tempted to use it.
All clones without subscription / training cert should should be allowed to train A skills.
This is the only fair and sensible setup.
I obviously need to clarify or require clarification. or maybe just claret. It is legal to create another account; it is legal to train an alpha on this account, no? = free alt training to alpha. Why must this be on separate accounts? I am not trying to sign in multiple chars. Perhaps 'multiboxing' was incorrectly used or limitedly interpreted, but, as others have noted, this could potentially lead to more cheating of the multi-login rule through simple methods. Pushing ppl to have another account is one step closer still. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 22:43:51 -
[1472] - Quote
Annir Janau wrote:Annir Janau wrote:"Note that you can still only train one character at a time, per account"
Objection! All this accomplishes is making me create a different account to train an alpha, causing nothing but more hassle and data on a server. Why? I'm not losing out on free alt skill training.
In fact, this will create more multiboxing / simul log ins. Since it's there, people will be tempted to use it.
All clones without subscription / training cert should should be allowed to train A skills.
This is the only fair and sensible setup. I obviously need to clarify or require clarification. or maybe just claret. It is legal to create another account; it is legal to train an alpha on this account, no? = free alt training to alpha. Why must this be on separate accounts? I am not trying to sign in multiple chars. Perhaps 'multiboxing' was incorrectly used or limitedly interpreted, but, as others have noted, this could potentially lead to more cheating of the multi-login rule through simple methods. Pushing ppl to have another account is one step closer still. There is no such thing as an Alpha character on an Omega account, thus no limitation of skills or item use and apparently faster training on any characters that can train. Even if training was limited this would extend additional Alpha account privileges to characters without other Alpha limits. |
Annir Janau
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 23:57:19 -
[1473] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Annir Janau wrote:Annir Janau wrote:"Note that you can still only train one character at a time, per account"
Objection! All this accomplishes is making me create a different account to train an alpha, causing nothing but more hassle and data on a server. Why? I'm not losing out on free alt skill training.
In fact, this will create more multiboxing / simul log ins. Since it's there, people will be tempted to use it.
All clones without subscription / training cert should should be allowed to train A skills.
This is the only fair and sensible setup. I obviously need to clarify or require clarification. or maybe just claret. It is legal to create another account; it is legal to train an alpha on this account, no? = free alt training to alpha. Why must this be on separate accounts? I am not trying to sign in multiple chars. Perhaps 'multiboxing' was incorrectly used or limitedly interpreted, but, as others have noted, this could potentially lead to more cheating of the multi-login rule through simple methods. Pushing ppl to have another account is one step closer still. There is no such thing as an Alpha character on an Omega account, thus no limitation of skills or item use and apparently faster training on any characters that can train. Even if training was limited this would extend additional Alpha account privileges to characters without other Alpha limits.
As usual, its hard to tell if I'm ignorant or people are illiterate. You are saying if I create another account it will also be Omega, filled with non-trainable characters? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 00:11:34 -
[1474] - Quote
Annir Janau wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Annir Janau wrote:Annir Janau wrote:"Note that you can still only train one character at a time, per account"
Objection! All this accomplishes is making me create a different account to train an alpha, causing nothing but more hassle and data on a server. Why? I'm not losing out on free alt skill training.
In fact, this will create more multiboxing / simul log ins. Since it's there, people will be tempted to use it.
All clones without subscription / training cert should should be allowed to train A skills.
This is the only fair and sensible setup. I obviously need to clarify or require clarification. or maybe just claret. It is legal to create another account; it is legal to train an alpha on this account, no? = free alt training to alpha. Why must this be on separate accounts? I am not trying to sign in multiple chars. Perhaps 'multiboxing' was incorrectly used or limitedly interpreted, but, as others have noted, this could potentially lead to more cheating of the multi-login rule through simple methods. Pushing ppl to have another account is one step closer still. There is no such thing as an Alpha character on an Omega account, thus no limitation of skills or item use and apparently faster training on any characters that can train. Even if training was limited this would extend additional Alpha account privileges to characters without other Alpha limits. As usual, its hard to tell if I'm ignorant or people are illiterate. You are saying if I create another account it will also be Omega, filled with non-trainable characters? I'm saying the Omega account slots you want to train alpha skills on for free are Omegas, not Alphas, and aren't limited to the things Alphas can do. They don't need other privileges.
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LeHarfang
Reckless-Endangerment Manifesto.
30
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Posted - 2016.10.14 02:05:58 -
[1475] - Quote
Will we be able to multi box an alpha clone alongside an omega clone? You know, like solo mine with the omega and haul with the alpha in a Miasmos? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3662
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 03:16:10 -
[1476] - Quote
LeHarfang wrote:Will we be able to multi box an alpha clone alongside an omega clone? You know, like solo mine with the omega and haul with the alpha in a Miasmos? No. Read the blog & Dev posts. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1155
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 00:52:50 -
[1477] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Annir Janau wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Annir Janau wrote:Annir Janau wrote:"Note that you can still only train one character at a time, per account"
Objection! All this accomplishes is making me create a different account to train an alpha, causing nothing but more hassle and data on a server. Why? I'm not losing out on free alt skill training.
In fact, this will create more multiboxing / simul log ins. Since it's there, people will be tempted to use it.
All clones without subscription / training cert should should be allowed to train A skills.
This is the only fair and sensible setup. I obviously need to clarify or require clarification. or maybe just claret. It is legal to create another account; it is legal to train an alpha on this account, no? = free alt training to alpha. Why must this be on separate accounts? I am not trying to sign in multiple chars. Perhaps 'multiboxing' was incorrectly used or limitedly interpreted, but, as others have noted, this could potentially lead to more cheating of the multi-login rule through simple methods. Pushing ppl to have another account is one step closer still. There is no such thing as an Alpha character on an Omega account, thus no limitation of skills or item use and apparently faster training on any characters that can train. Even if training was limited this would extend additional Alpha account privileges to characters without other Alpha limits. As usual, its hard to tell if I'm ignorant or people are illiterate. You are saying if I create another account it will also be Omega, filled with non-trainable characters? I'm saying the Omega account slots you want to train alpha skills on for free are Omegas, not Alphas, and aren't limited to the things Alphas can do. They don't need other privileges. If you start a new character, on an existing Omega account it too will be Omega.
Alpha, Omega status is based on the account status, NOT the characters.
If you wanted to train an Alpha clone on an existing account, you first have to let the subscription on that account expire.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Pestilen Ratte
Artimus Ratte
65
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 20:07:14 -
[1478] - Quote
It is hard to see past certain logical problems with FTP existing alongside subscriptions.
For a start, we can say for certain that FTP characters will have either a good time, or not.
If they don't, they will leave, and it will have been a pointless exercise.
If they do have a good time...... what is the point of paying a subscription? Why not have good time in Eve for free?
Therefore, CCP have to ensure that the FTP experience is not sufficiently fun to attract this subscribers, and yet somehow sufficiently fun to attract new players.
I hate to say it, but this seems like bare faced nonsense dressed up as a good idea.
Sooner or later, CCP is going to have to move away from a subscription model and towards alternate sources of revenue. The numbers are dying off fast, there is a lot of competition in the space pew sector, and the numbers are dying off fast. And the numbers are dying off fast.
Don't get me wrong, CCP impress the heck out of me with their business model. They have had a good run.
There are other streams of revenue that could be harnessed, but it would mean a cultural and structural change in the way CCP opera as a firm. It means ending the pay-to-win mechanics which currently define the game and seriously limit game play development. If players don't pay, how can they pay to win?
I think this change in the fundamental mechanics, away from pay-to-win drivers, will allow Eve to blossom as a proper action game, a contest between players on equal footing. I'm optimistic.
Eve has so much potential. It might be the best thing for the long term future of the game for CCP to crash and burn, as a firm, or to face a hostile takeover with new management ideas. The assets that make up the potential of the game, human and code based, can be salvaged from the wreck and sent in a new direction.
It might also be that CCP do understand the need to change, and that they are slowly gearing up to say goodbye to the idea of developing the game for the folks who have paid the most into it over time. If so, I expect that the FTP characters will be more than capable of having fun in the Eve Universe, and therefore their numbers may grow quickly, allowing CCP to gather revenues from the exposure and allowing them to leave behind the bitter vets who think they have some kind of standing as investors in the firm.
If they don't, and the FTP characters are a waste of time and nothing more than easy fodder for bitter vets, to keep them around a little bit longer, we will know that CCP hasn't really changed it's core business model, and that we continue to sail away into the cold night of pay-to-win mechanics and bitter vets calling the shots in a shrinking community.
Regardless, the awesome work done by all the artists at CCP will endure. Eve will be forever respected as a glorious looking game.
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Darkblad
1285
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 20:55:40 -
[1479] - Quote
Altrue wrote:CCP Quant wrote:Nope, there will be a suitable replacement, stay tuned How long do we have to stay tuned approximately? A day? A week? A month? I need to know so that I can either hold on the new player content I'm about to release for youtube, or if it's worth waiting a few days, update it and then release it :p The tune is starting to sound a little old ... any update on this by ccp?
NPE-ISD-Übersetzt!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5368
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 21:04:28 -
[1480] - Quote
Pestilen Ratte wrote: For a start, we can say for certain that FTP characters will have either a good time, or not.
If they don't, they will leave, and it will have been a pointless exercise.
If they do have a good time...... what is the point of paying a subscription? Why not have good time in Eve for free?
Therefore, CCP have to ensure that the FTP experience is not sufficiently fun to attract this subscribers, and yet somehow sufficiently fun to attract new players.
You seem to be thinking of these players as if they were one player. That is a critical methodological flaw. It is more accurate to say:
Some will not have fun and will leave. Some will have fun and stay. Some will have fun and switch over to Omega status.
So long as we get people in the last 3 categories that is good for the game in that it means more people to interact with.
Pestilen Ratte wrote: I hate to say it, but this seems like bare faced nonsense dressed up as a good idea.
Sooner or later, CCP is going to have to move away from a subscription model and towards alternate sources of revenue. The numbers are dying off fast, there is a lot of competition in the space pew sector, and the numbers are dying off fast. And the numbers are dying off fast.
Does repeating something make it even more true. Yes numbers online is a problem, hence this move. Think of it as an unlimited trial. I can appeal to people who just do not have lots of free time to log in regularly, but still want to play. Also, it lets people learn about the game over a longer period thus, giving them more time to figure things out and if they want to start a paying sub.
Somehow the bill has to be paid, and granting FTP for everyone does not remove that condition. In fact, it will make monetizing the player base even more critical which will almost sure mean things like PTW. And that will likely annoy the remaining player base and be very bad.
Pestilen Ratte wrote: Don't get me wrong, CCP impress the heck out of me with their business model. They have had a good run.
There are other streams of revenue that could be harnessed, but it would mean a cultural and structural change in the way CCP opera as a firm. It means ending the pay-to-win mechanics which currently define the game and seriously limit game play development. If players don't pay, how can they pay to win?
Exactly what other revenue streams do you see if not pay-to-win or paid subs? And there is no pay-to-win in the game. There are pay-to-avoid-griniding, pay-to-skip-training-time, etc. but these have been in game for a very, very long time in one form or another, and they had the salutory effect of under-mining RMT.
And effecting a change in corporate culture is no easy task. In fact, I would suggest that such attempts probably fail.
Pestilen Ratte wrote: I think this change in the fundamental mechanics, away from pay-to-win drivers, will allow Eve to blossom as a proper action game, a contest between players on equal footing. I'm optimistic.
This is anti-thetical to the very idea of the game--i.e. a sand box that promotes emergence, spontaneous order, and so forth. The idea of "equal footing" only applies in the sense that each player starts out capable of forging his own path in the game. That for different individuals there will be different paths.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Annir Janau
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 13:34:17 -
[1481] - Quote
'on an existing Omega account' 'Omega account slots'
[insert facepalm meme here] |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1160
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 14:49:33 -
[1482] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Welisa Aldent wrote:Pls CCP High sec in eve dosent need more gankers pls do so they Always need to fly in green safty mode..becouse ganking gona get out of hand, even more then it have now.
And btw what do we get? we the subs..so far its only the freeloaders that benefit from this..
I still get to pay and dosent get anything extra,sounds like a cheezy deal for us subs Try not paying and see what you get. No, we probably don't need more gankers, but the problem is there is not much else in the way of HS PvP that involves shooting people. I wonder if putting some effort into the lack lustre wardec system we have might not be the answer to highsec pvp opportunities. It is about time something was done to better encourage highsec wars.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1160
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 15:15:39 -
[1483] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Try reading the minutes, it sounds like CCP are going to be limiting them to 1 free account per person, so they aren't going to be significantly used for ganking, as the set up to avoid detection is likely to cost far more to maintain than actually paying for a few ganking accounts. additionally isk selling in EVE is combated via Plex, and has been effectively for quite some time. Subscription only games without a plex equivalent have always been hit by gold sellers hard, the plex gives people a legal outlet for it and most people being risk averse don't gamble on avoiding detection when there is a legal means. You don't really believe isk selling doesn't happen do you?
Plex, even when on special are expensive. Some people will always look for alternatives..
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Major Trant
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1543
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 11:10:30 -
[1484] - Quote
Question regarding 2nd and 3rd Character training. Will we be able to train them as Alpha Clones while our 'main' trains as an Omega?
For example, I'm subscribed on this account, but aren't paying for dual training. I want a scout on the second character slot, which only needs alpha skills. Do I have to stop training on Major Trant, to train alpha clone skills on the 2nd char?
That would actually be a barrier in my view and be detrimental to CCPs income. Because if not, the best way of doing this, would be to let my subscription lapse, then train the second char for a month or so for free and not re-sub until I want to go back to training Trant's skills. But of course I won't be able to login and play on Trant during that period (properly). So I'd perhaps drop corp during that period or go and play World of Tanks or something, all bad for Eve. But nobody is going to be happy paying for a Skill queue to train free skills.
Additionally what's to stop everyone and his dog opening up multiple Alpha Clone accounts, training them to max SP point and then flogging them on the Character Bazaar? There is going to be so many people doing this that the price of a 5M SP char will stabalise at around the cost of a Plex to pay for the transfer fee. It will quickly become the norm to start your Eve career by buying one of these pre-trained Alpha Clones.
You have made a set of rods for your own backs CCP - surely a better and much simpler way of doing this would be to give all new chars the 5M SP from the off and then just disable the Skill Queue while they are Alpha clones. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1163
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 12:10:32 -
[1485] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:Question regarding 2nd and 3rd Character training. Will we be able to train them as Alpha Clones while our 'main' trains as an Omega?
For example, I'm subscribed on this account, but aren't paying for dual training. I want a scout on the second character slot, which only needs alpha skills. Do I have to stop training on Major Trant, to train alpha clone skills on the 2nd char?
That would actually be a barrier in my view and be detrimental to CCPs income. Because if not, the best way of doing this, would be to let my subscription lapse, then train the second char for a month or so for free and not re-sub until I want to go back to training Trant's skills. But of course I won't be able to login and play on Trant during that period (properly). So I'd perhaps drop corp during that period or go and play World of Tanks or something, all bad for Eve. But nobody is going to be happy paying for a Skill queue to train free skills.
Additionally what's to stop everyone and his dog opening up multiple Alpha Clone accounts, training them to max SP point and then flogging them on the Character Bazaar? There is going to be so many people doing this that the price of a 5M SP char will stabalise at around the cost of a Plex to pay for the transfer fee. It will quickly become the norm to start your Eve career by buying one of these pre-trained Alpha Clones.
You have made a set of rods for your own backs CCP - surely a better and much simpler way of doing this would be to give all new chars the 5M SP from the off and then just disable the Skill Queue while they are Alpha clones. Do people not read the blogs or even browse threads to see if something has already been asked and answered.
Again; There is no possible way to train an Alpha clone on an Omega account - It is an omega account, not an Omega character.
Also, you can only train ONE character per account without buying a dual character training certificate. So - Yes would would have to stop training your main to train another character, on top of this, if you want to train it as an Alpha clone, you need to let your account expire.
Although, you can stop your main training and train Alpha only skills on your subbed account if you choose but as long as it is a subbed account, it will not be an Alpha clone.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5375
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 15:24:06 -
[1486] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Again; There is no possible way to train an Alpha clone on an Omega account - It is an omega account, not an Omega character.--emphasis added
Pretty much this, this has been pointed out pretty much 2 dozen times, stop asking about it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
360
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 09:33:31 -
[1487] - Quote
I read the blog and its depressing....also I see lots of people now having ganker alts
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5396
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 17:00:59 -
[1488] - Quote
Agondray wrote:I read the blog and its depressing....also I see lots of people now having ganker alts
In which case CCP would lock safeties to green, at least in HS.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 18:34:25 -
[1489] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Welisa Aldent wrote:Pls CCP High sec in eve dosent need more gankers pls do so they Always need to fly in green safty mode..becouse ganking gona get out of hand, even more then it have now.
And btw what do we get? we the subs..so far its only the freeloaders that benefit from this..
I still get to pay and dosent get anything extra,sounds like a cheezy deal for us subs Try not paying and see what you get. No, we probably don't need more gankers, but the problem is there is not much else in the way of HS PvP that involves shooting people. I wonder if putting some effort into the lack lustre wardec system we have might not be the answer to highsec pvp opportunities. It is about time something was done to better encourage highsec wars. Functionally wardecs work fine. The only issue with them is the lack of reason to defend other than wanting the fight itself. No instance of wardec mechanics has ever addressed that.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 18:40:00 -
[1490] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Agondray wrote:I read the blog and its depressing....also I see lots of people now having ganker alts In which case CCP would lock safeties to green, at least in HS. I genuinely wonder if that's going to be an issue now. No (EULA abiding) multiboxing. No T2 weapons or mods. No Talos usage for big targets. Catalyst are still a potent tool even capped by mod/skill restrictions, but they can't be spammed by single players so it's likely not going to be an issue.
Unless there's something/someone routing alphas from genuine new players to organized ganking in large numbers. I'm not sure that's a likely outcome though.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5400
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 18:43:12 -
[1491] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Welisa Aldent wrote:Pls CCP High sec in eve dosent need more gankers pls do so they Always need to fly in green safty mode..becouse ganking gona get out of hand, even more then it have now.
And btw what do we get? we the subs..so far its only the freeloaders that benefit from this..
I still get to pay and dosent get anything extra,sounds like a cheezy deal for us subs Try not paying and see what you get. No, we probably don't need more gankers, but the problem is there is not much else in the way of HS PvP that involves shooting people. I wonder if putting some effort into the lack lustre wardec system we have might not be the answer to highsec pvp opportunities. It is about time something was done to better encourage highsec wars. Functionally wardecs work fine. The only issue with them is the lack of reason to defend other than wanting the fight itself. No instance of wardec mechanics has ever addressed that.
Nor can it, IMO. Wanting to PvP is more of a behavioral issue than one of mechanics. Somewhere Malcanis provided a thought experiment on this and when you read it and think about it one quickly realizes that if one simple does not like to PvP then no amount of tinkering with the mechanics would change that. Should have bookmarked that post.....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3671
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 21:29:20 -
[1492] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Functionally wardecs work fine. The only issue with them is the lack of reason to defend other than wanting the fight itself. No instance of wardec mechanics has ever addressed that.
Give EC's equal capabilities in all areas of space, and then you have things that will cause defenders to actually fight over them. But with the current difference in stats based on area of space (Despite the same structure & cost), it's not worth it for nearly anyone in highsec to use them unless you can put the XL up because you are a mega coalition.
Same thing that ties back to high sec not forming meaningful corps for the most part. It has to be tied around structures that give them significant advantages. And the pre nerf to high sec EC's etc means that simply won't happen on a large scale. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5407
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 21:53:22 -
[1493] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Agondray wrote:I read the blog and its depressing....also I see lots of people now having ganker alts In which case CCP would lock safeties to green, at least in HS. I genuinely wonder if that's going to be an issue now. No (EULA abiding) multiboxing. No T2 weapons or mods. No Talos usage for big targets. Catalyst are still a potent tool even capped by mod/skill restrictions, but they can't be spammed by single players so it's likely not going to be an issue. Unless there's something/someone routing alphas from genuine new players to organized ganking in large numbers. I'm not sure that's a likely outcome though.
And even if it is...well welcome to emergent play. If you do have 70 man fleets of 70 players running around in T1 fit cats shooting stuff and somebody is providing that organization and backbone...so be it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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DSpite Culhach
308
|
Posted - 2016.10.24 03:20:00 -
[1494] - Quote
Irregessa wrote:Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill? Since this is supposed to come out at the same time as the boosting changes, an Alpha Clone won't fly any ship that can boost, nor use any skills that require Leadership (like Fighters).
To use Security Connections skill I think.
I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
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Shawnee
Vanda Mining
1
|
Posted - 2016.10.24 17:20:55 -
[1495] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:LeHarfang wrote:Will we be able to multi box an alpha clone alongside an omega clone? You know, like solo mine with the omega and haul with the alpha in a Miasmos? No. Read the blog & Dev posts.
The Dev Blog states "we are planning to implement restrictions that keep any Alpha account from passing character select if another EVE client is already active. This will be true even if the other client is Omega". But it doesn't say that you can't select an Omega account if an Alpha account is already active. So based on this, it should be possible to sumultaneously run one Alpha and as many Omegas as you like, as long as you log in the Alpha first to avoid the restriction. Or have I missed something? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3676
|
Posted - 2016.10.24 20:52:34 -
[1496] - Quote
Shawnee wrote:
The Dev Blog states "we are planning to implement restrictions that keep any Alpha account from passing character select if another EVE client is already active. This will be true even if the other client is Omega". But it doesn't say that you can't select an Omega account if an Alpha account is already active. So based on this, it should be possible to simultaneously run one Alpha and as many Omegas as you like, as long as you log in the Alpha first to avoid the restriction. Or have I missed something?
Assume that won't be possible would be my advice. And that it's just not a perfect phrasing by the Dev blog. But test when it gets released anyway in case of a bug. But it makes no sense to base the restriction on login order. Otherwise why bother restricting it from running if an Omega account is active to begin with. So the obvious intent is if running Alpha, can't run a second account at the same time regardless. |
DSpite Culhach
308
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 01:04:04 -
[1497] - Quote
Still reading through the thread (on page 53 atm).
Is there a way that the new Alpha players could be used to "flesh out" the universe more while they make the decision to either remain casual or move to Omega?
They could be introduced into the universe as "new capsuleer immortal citizens" and given tasks by the empire corps - maybe even upgraded clone states - for carrying out tasks for the empire.
Think of it this way:
Instead of just running the current missions, a new mission system is added, like a job board, and players can pick and choose from that list, and rewards could even be given indirectly. For example, actually joining an NPC mining Corp gives access to cheaper hulls, and an upgraded clone state with better mining skills that is lost when they drop that Corp. They could even be allowed to join the Faction Police and be allowed to activate ECM modules on anyone they like in hisec that has a negative sec status :)
I know many here will say "players can get all that with REAL human Corps", but what I am pointing out is that by using this idea it creates a middle way from normal MMO's to EVE, and also allows people that enjoyed THAT kind of game play more to stay here, in EVE, and at least add to population numbers, and provide extra gameplay even for vets in term of targets, and general activity.
With the right mechanics, the system would not be able to be abused, because you would be given assets that could be USED but not SOLD, and benefits that only exist as long as you actively work that account.
Even if Alphas stick to that gameplay alone and never go Omega, it would create a better target environment for everyone involved, if done correctly.
EDITS:
* I would suggest that places like EVE-Offline, that report PCU and server stats, track Alpha logins separately (or at least allow a toggle), so we that when we see teh massive join spike we can still see what fraction is what.
I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
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DSpite Culhach
309
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 03:29:00 -
[1498] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I know not everything is set in stone and that is the reason for this post. Based on the skills they gave so far Gallente alphas looks like they will be either more powerful, or much more powerful than all the other alphas. First there is the issue of drone skills. Gallente and Amarr both have much better drone skills than minmatar or caldari alphas. Caldari and minmatar have gun and missile skills. Which seems balanced unless you play eve. People rarely if ever use both guns and missiles on the same ship. But they almost always use both guns and drones. When you look at a gnosis this means Amarr and Gallente will have about 2xs the dps as caldari or minmatar. This is a huge disparity. Second is the gallente industrial skill. CCP has not said what will happen with pi. If you have an omega clone set up multiple pi systems what happens when your subscription lapses? CCP has not directly answered this but they have given some vague notions that they may leave them running. If you have ever tried to extract pi skills you know ccp doesn't really have a handle on what pi you have running. Ok so *if* they allow pi to continue to be farmed (or can't prevent it for technical reasons) then the epithal will be a huge benefit for gallente. I started my characters years ago with the assurance that race didn't matter. The 2 things I mention above matter allot. What can be done? Lots of things. Eg., 1) allow characters to choose the racial skills they want as an alpha. or 2) give all races the same drone bonuses (either the lower ones or the better ones whatever) 3) Don't allow alphas to continue pi set ups that only omegas can start. or 4) if you do then at least let all races have access to the epithal. There are plenty of other things that can address these problems but I just want to make sure ccp is ahead of the game on this. edit: feel free to mention in this thread any other race imbalance issues. 2nd edit: Namaan wrote: If you're looking for mostly PvP kinda, yeah... Caldari will be the best mission runners (Cal Gnosis does 3s with ease I'm told) and the Hookbill will be a respectable scramkite if Cals want to PvP, but lets be honest Alphas will more about wolf packs, not solo ninjas.
Cal alpha gnosis gets half the dps of a gallente alpha gnosis. The gallente alpha gnosis should be able to do level 4s as it gets about 530 dps. I don't think the hookbills will all of a sudden start looking better than comets when alphas come out. Start looking at eft for yourself here is a skeleton of a gnosis fit: [Gnosis, gallente alpha] AE-K Compact Drone Damage Amplifier AE-K Compact Drone Damage Amplifier Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer Damage Control II [empty low slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] 250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] 250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Federation Navy Hammerhead x5 The eft clones skill characters can be found here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=491949&find=unread
The 250mm proto guns and Damage Control 2 currently show up on SISI as "Omega only" weapons.
I need to point out that a Gnosis is a limited numbers type ship. If we assume most Alphas start getting them in bulk, we can also assume they will lose them in bulk, so using Gnosis ships as examples for Alpha is not that good an idea.
I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3684
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 03:39:31 -
[1499] - Quote
There are somewhere in the region of 2 Million Gnosis. Minus losses this year. Assuming they never give any more out, zKill says 42,600 approx were lost so far. Even if we double that for non killboarded kills, we haven't put a significant dent in the overall quantity of Gnosis in EVE. And that's a lifetime kill count since they were introduced.
Eventually they might run out, but for now it's a perfectly reasonable ship to use as an example ship for Alpha clones. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5428
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 19:44:07 -
[1500] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:There are somewhere in the region of 2 Million Gnosis. Minus losses this year. Assuming they never give any more out, zKill says 42,600 approx were lost so far. Even if we double that for non killboarded kills, we haven't put a significant dent in the overall quantity of Gnosis in EVE. And that's a lifetime kill count since they were introduced.
Eventually they might run out, but for now it's a perfectly reasonable ship to use as an example ship for Alpha clones.
Is that 2 million on the market or on accounts and the market? If it is the latter, deduct those Gnosis for accounts that have lapsed.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3686
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 19:59:31 -
[1501] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Is that 2 million on the market or on accounts and the market? If it is the latter, deduct those Gnosis for accounts that have lapsed.
On accounts, based on what CCP have given out, and guestimated. So yes, it's an unreliable number, but it puts it in perspective what the supply vs usage is like. |
Orbi Deriathan
Newbie Friendly Industries THE R0NIN
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 08:48:49 -
[1502] - Quote
I dont want to pay for the game and be called an omega /lowest of animal hierarchy/. >..> |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1188
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 14:45:46 -
[1503] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Welisa Aldent wrote:Pls CCP High sec in eve dosent need more gankers pls do so they Always need to fly in green safty mode..becouse ganking gona get out of hand, even more then it have now.
And btw what do we get? we the subs..so far its only the freeloaders that benefit from this..
I still get to pay and dosent get anything extra,sounds like a cheezy deal for us subs Try not paying and see what you get. No, we probably don't need more gankers, but the problem is there is not much else in the way of HS PvP that involves shooting people. I wonder if putting some effort into the lack lustre wardec system we have might not be the answer to highsec pvp opportunities. It is about time something was done to better encourage highsec wars. Functionally wardecs work fine. The only issue with them is the lack of reason to defend other than wanting the fight itself. No instance of wardec mechanics has ever addressed that. The biggest problem with war dec's and a primary reason many aren't defended is; The instance of 1,000 man alliances wardecing 20 man corps. No 20 man corp is going to try to defend when the war they are forced to fight is so unbalanced.
I don't know what the answer is - And CCP don't care, so nothing will be done.
Maybe these new mining /pvp NPC's could be the foundation of an answer for small groups who get wardecced in the future. But then CCP don't design things with small groups in mind (everyone should team up and form large groups, which of course only create stagnation but.,. CCP think it is best), so creating NPC merc corps that could be hired to join your side in a wardec wouldn't be an option.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3687
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 18:55:46 -
[1504] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: The biggest problem with war dec's and a primary reason many aren't defended is; The instance of 1,000 man alliances wardecing 20 man corps. No 20 man corp is going to try to defend when the war they are forced to fight is so unbalanced.
I don't know what the answer is - And CCP don't care, so nothing will be done.
Maybe these new mining /pvp NPC's could be the foundation of an answer for small groups who get wardecced in the future. But then CCP don't design things with small groups in mind (everyone should team up and form large groups, which of course only create stagnation but.,. CCP think it is best), so creating NPC merc corps that could be hired to join your side in a wardec wouldn't be an option.
The intent was that these new structures would provide a sufficient force multiplier for small groups to defend against a somewhat larger group. Obviously if you upset a 1,000 man group as a 20 man group you should be steamrolled. But they then designed the defences around AOE and Null, and failed to leave the highsec defences as much of a multiplier, so it won't do that. For an idea of something they could have done, rather than having just 2 launchers on the Ast. they could have made those 2 launchers able to engage up to 5 targets. So you can't nuke a single target, but you can engage a significant number of targets with each 'battery'. It would require some changes to how things work, and how things group, but that would allow for a structure to be a force multiplier in highsec still without being an instant nuke to any single ship.
Also for one easy way to reduce the 1,000 man corps deccing 20 man corps, while not making it impossible if the 20 man corp really does annoy them seriously. Flip the wardec costs to be based on the number of people in the attacking alliance. Not in the defending alliance (Or even in both, but just on the attacking alliance allows for larger groups to be harassed easily, which is actually a good thing). And accepting new members comes with a cost based on the number of wardecs you have active. Now you want to be small for cheap wardecs, but large to have enough numbers for defending your stuff and attacking other peoples stuff. Good counter pressures on Corp/Alliance size. |
Byznich Dahl
Taxed Evaders
0
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Posted - 2016.11.08 08:03:47 -
[1505] - Quote
I have a question about this new ftp thing that's starting. If, by chance, we decide to stop playing for a mite (unable to afford it or simply bored for a bit), will any implants the character has be destroyed just like when your pod gets blown to bits? I wouldn't care if I had your typical implants, but I've got a fairly pricey set of them and really don't want to lose that much money...and they were a birthday present from my husband. (looks sheepish)
PoiJoy |
Byznich Dahl
Taxed Evaders
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 08:24:39 -
[1506] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:[quote=Jenn aSide]Alpha clones must NOT be able to light any form of cyno. If not, every single low and null system will have a cloaky alpha clone sitting in it.
I am not normally against cloaky campers (i advocate just dealing with them if they decloak), but FREE cloaky campers? Hell no, every cloaky camper that exists represents a sub or plex and the opportunity costs associated with that. FREE cloakys destroy that.
I know what CCP is trying to achieve. What they will actually achieve is just a bunch of new Tech1 fitted Navy Vexors (don't even need 5 mil SP for that) for veterans. Even if they try the same thing they do with trial accounts (can't be used with paid accounts), there are ways around that.
Think long and hard on this one CCP, you actually can mess up a lot if you don't do this one right.
"The clone state prevents access to powerful skills like Cynosural Field Theory and Cloaking" is what the blog says about Alpha clones. There shouldn't be a worry about it. And, if someone trains up in those and then decides to become a free player, those skills, according to the blog, will simply become inaccessible. So, to assuage all of the concerns about someone slipping into low or null and cloaky camping, it should be alright...as far as that is concerned.
Introducing Clone States... |
Morty Friedman
Mortal Logistics
5
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 11:52:07 -
[1507] - Quote
Clone states aren't currently working for me, it comes up stating to renew game subscription? |
AgentMaster
Platinum Octopus Infernal Octopus
3
|
Posted - 2016.11.09 22:13:23 -
[1508] - Quote
Velores Prokhozai wrote:Ok, this is the things that I am woried about:
-Alpha accounts should be able to launch only one game instance per computer, point. Also you can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running.
....
Alpha accounts will be able to launch only one game instance per computer? I can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running? Please - let us to use at least 1 Alpha with 1 Omega! There is a lot of situations that require 2 pilots runing in same time to complete. Even simple moving in unknown low sec and nulls needs a scout. Some anomalies needs... What CCP offer to ppl in that case? Nothing. Force them to pay another account? This is not a offer - this is a force to pay twice for one game. And when i dont have a lot of time to login with these 2 accounts, they will burn the PLEXes doing nothig sitting offline... :(
Blessed is the man who has nothing to say and remain silent yet!!
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1201
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 02:57:19 -
[1509] - Quote
AgentMaster wrote:Velores Prokhozai wrote:Ok, this is the things that I am woried about:
-Alpha accounts should be able to launch only one game instance per computer, point. Also you can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running.
.... Alpha accounts will be able to launch only one game instance per computer? I can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running? Please - let us to use at least 1 Alpha with 1 Omega! There is a lot of situations that require 2 pilots runing in same time to complete. Even simple moving in unknown low sec and nulls needs a scout. Some anomalies needs... What CCP offer to ppl in that case? Nothing. Force them to pay another account? This is not a offer - this is a force to pay twice for one game. And when i dont have a lot of time to login with these 2 accounts, they will burn the PLEXes doing nothig sitting offline... :( Omega Accounts - They will work exactly as they have for ever.
Alpha Clones aren't being put into the game to help existing players run more accounts, they are to entice the F2P crowd (12 to 15 year olds) into trying Eve.
The restrictions on Alpha Clone logins is to stop exactly what your asking for.,. You want scouts to keep your Omega account safe while travelling through nul, pay a second sub OR make a friend who likes flying ceptors.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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AgentMaster
Platinum Octopus Infernal Octopus
3
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Posted - 2016.11.10 11:16:53 -
[1510] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: You want scouts to keep your Omega account safe while travelling through nul, pay a second sub OR make a friend who likes flying ceptors.
And this is already second payment for same product. If CCP wana fair play they will not allow multiaccounting for all Omega-s!
Blessed is the man who has nothing to say and remain silent yet!!
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1202
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Posted - 2016.11.10 11:51:49 -
[1511] - Quote
AgentMaster wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote: You want scouts to keep your Omega account safe while travelling through nul, pay a second sub OR make a friend who likes flying ceptors.
And this is already second payment for same product. If CCP wana fair play they will not allow multiaccounting for all Omega-s! Really? You want CCP to lose a large % of its income by banning multiboxing? People have multiple accounts for different reasons, "paying a second" (or 3rd or 5th) subscription to use the product is personal choice, no-one is forcing you to do the same.
I'm currently at 7 active accounts (less than half what I used to maintain) with 19 characters. Each of my characters has a role and I enjoy using them all.
I'll possibly even train up an Alpha clone - Just because I can and to see what the possibilities are.
I would however be interested to hear why you think CCP should ban multiboxing.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Lothar Mandrake
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.11.10 17:39:46 -
[1512] - Quote
AgentMaster wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote: You want scouts to keep your Omega account safe while travelling through nul, pay a second sub OR make a friend who likes flying ceptors.
And this is already second payment for same product. If CCP wana fair play they will not allow multiaccounting for all Omega-s!
That's just crazy! My wife and child play with PAID accounts not because of the levels they can reach but because I genuinely believe funding EVE is the only way to keep it running.
Under your idea, how could EVE know it's another real person and not me with multple computers under the same IP address? So only 1 person per house may play? |
Blazemonger Adoulin
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
3
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 18:07:28 -
[1513] - Quote
AgentMaster wrote:[quote=Velores Prokhozai] Alpha accounts will be able to launch only one game instance per computer? I can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running? Please - let us to use at least 1 Alpha with 1 Omega!
Provided your desktop setup is half decent it will be trivial to run an alpha in a VM your main runs native. I can't speak for other OS but in Windows 8.1 or 10 this works just fine.
Then again, Alpha clones are not meant for what you want to do and if you do not want to pay for the game you want to play then that really is your personal choice. Drink four beers less a month and you have your second account paid.. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1202
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 19:12:12 -
[1514] - Quote
Blazemonger Adoulin wrote:AgentMaster wrote:[quote=Velores Prokhozai] Alpha accounts will be able to launch only one game instance per computer? I can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running? Please - let us to use at least 1 Alpha with 1 Omega! Provided your desktop setup is half decent it will be trivial to run an alpha in a VM your main runs native. I can't speak for other OS but in Windows 8.1 or 10 this works just fine. Then again, Alpha clones are not meant for what you want to do and if you do not want to pay for the game you want to play then that really is your personal choice. Drink four beers less a month and you have your second account paid.. The hardware profile of your machine might just give CCP a little hint of what you are doing - To get yourself banned.
Hint; Go read the EULA
While you may get away with it for a while, eventually the security team will stumble across you and when they do that ban hammer swings fast. An alternative to beating the EULA would be to use a second machine on the same network and tell CCP it is your son, daughter, wife or pet dog (Ralph) playing the account - Again, just don't get caught.
The far safest way to ensure you don't get banned, is to not breach the EULA. -- - -- - -- Being a multiboxer I was at first a little disappointed with the limits on logons for Alpha's. After thinking about it, I came around and realized, Alpha accounts were never meant for multiboxers and had the potential to simply break parts of Eve gameplay.
If you need a second account (or more), there are hundreds if not thousands of ways to pay for it in game without using Alpha's to prop up your one man (or woman) fleet.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Blazemonger Adoulin
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
3
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Posted - 2016.11.12 00:19:51 -
[1515] - Quote
Running 7 accounts myself currently I completely agree with what you write and yes I know using a VM is a breach of EULA. My point was that you can but that you shouldn't as it bypasses the intent of the Alpha account.
Talking of Alpha accounts, was an updates skillset list ever released as I believe things changed. I would like to get an alpha character ready for my stream the 15th and would like to have him or her skilled up before then (with some help :P ) |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
303
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 00:29:50 -
[1516] - Quote
Quote:Alpha characters may not be logged in simultaneously from the same location as other active EVE Online clients. For details please see our End User License Agreement
What does this mean exactly ? I could go to coffee shop and try to play eve online on my notebook, but because their wi-fi is free and open, someone 150 meters away could also try to play eve online with alpha character via their wi-fi (same ip).
Does this mean i will not be able to connect via the same ip or is this locked onto device (as per device) ? |
TD746
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. The-Culture
10
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Posted - 2016.11.12 22:59:16 -
[1517] - Quote
So i was told to bring this up and I see its already being discussed somewhat.
CCP,
I know you are dedicated to stopping multiboxing with Alphaclones, but from a business standpoint, if the directive is to provide an easy-to-enter experience for a new player.
A highly probable route of entry is going to be people coming over to someone's house and someone being like "you wanna try EVE? its FTP now....lets set you up an account"
With IP based banning that wont be possible.
Youre balancing the security and integrity of hte game vs. the prospect of new players.
I am of the _business_ opinion, that a game as complex as this needs all the extra help and ease-of-entry it can possibly muster.
My first days playing eve were spent with my exroommate in the same room. Under these rules with alpha clones That wont happen.
You guys dont need to explain to me the potential for abuse here,full disclosure , I work in virtualization and i know very well what threat /challenge this poses poses architecturally.
Im just asking if you havent considered this concern...please do so.
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1205
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 01:55:13 -
[1518] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Quote:Alpha characters may not be logged in simultaneously from the same location as other active EVE Online clients. For details please see our End User License Agreement What does this mean exactly ? I could go to coffee shop and try to play eve online on my notebook, but because their wi-fi is free and open, someone 150 meters away could also try to play eve online with alpha character via their wi-fi (same ip). Does this mean i will not be able to connect via the same ip or is this locked onto device (as per device) ? As dynamic IP's are the most common these days I would imagine logins would be via device not IP.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
303
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 04:31:00 -
[1519] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Spc One wrote:Quote:Alpha characters may not be logged in simultaneously from the same location as other active EVE Online clients. For details please see our End User License Agreement What does this mean exactly ? I could go to coffee shop and try to play eve online on my notebook, but because their wi-fi is free and open, someone 150 meters away could also try to play eve online with alpha character via their wi-fi (same ip). Does this mean i will not be able to connect via the same ip or is this locked onto device (as per device) ? As dynamic IP's are the most common these days I would imagine logins would be via device not IP. My ISP is used by alot of companies, and they strictly have static IP's, especially for business users.
This means that coffee shops and other businesses have static IP's.
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FionnNZ
EtE Clan
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 07:13:45 -
[1520] - Quote
Bit disappointed as I was looking forward to getting my son into EvE. Doesn't look like this will be possible at present moment. |
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
270
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Posted - 2016.11.13 10:25:32 -
[1521] - Quote
That is an interesting point CCP, I started playing EvE in the military at one of the onbase rec centers, cant imagine how many players wont be able to play at the same time because of 1 alpha player trying out the game.
These rec centers have multiple computers with your game already installed on them, but that will be useless if its truly by location and not by device for logging in. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
303
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 17:49:58 -
[1522] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:That is an interesting point CCP, I started playing EvE in the military at one of the onbase rec centers, cant imagine how many players wont be able to play at the same time because of 1 alpha player trying out the game.
These rec centers have multiple computers with your game already installed on them, but that will be useless if its truly by location and not by device for logging in. Yea, that's what i am asking, is it strictly per ip or per device, we still don't know because it says location. In my mind location means alot of things, not just same IP address.
Little more clarification would be nice to get. |
Leandra Stormbreaker
Operation Neptune S.o.S.
1
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 09:56:29 -
[1523] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Max Deveron wrote:That is an interesting point CCP, I started playing EvE in the military at one of the onbase rec centers, cant imagine how many players wont be able to play at the same time because of 1 alpha player trying out the game.
These rec centers have multiple computers with your game already installed on them, but that will be useless if its truly by location and not by device for logging in. Yea, that's what i am asking, is it strictly per ip or per device, we still don't know because it says location. In my mind location means alot of things, not just same IP address. Little more clarification would be nice to get.
I'm also very interested in this question. One would only think it logical that you wouldn't be able to run multiple alphas on the same computer, but at least have a son/friend try out an alpha while you're on your omega. |
Voxinian
108
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 14:25:52 -
[1524] - Quote
The limitation on race and ships for alpha clones really need to looked at again.
Returning player scenario:
Old player has a Gallente toon that he/she trained to fly Caldari ships. Player comes back to EvE to check it out and can't fly any of the ships he still has in his hangar, because his character is originally Gallente. Old returning player logs out to never return again. |
Legatus Colossus
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 23:37:43 -
[1525] - Quote
Voxinian wrote:The limitation on race and ships for alpha clones really need to looked at again.
Returning player scenario:
Old player has a Gallente toon that he/she trained to fly Caldari ships. Player comes back to EvE to check it out and can't fly any of the ships he still has in his hangar, because his character is originally Gallente. Old returning player logs out to never return again.
Yup. Im Amarr and i love my Dragoon. Logged in today after 3 years without playing. Tried to use my missiles... I cant. Tried to use my drones... I cant.
Bye again Eve Online. |
Carl Kowalski
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 11:45:16 -
[1526] - Quote
Some skills are missing from the alpha clone skillsets: - Auto Targeting Missiles for the missile factions (at least for Caldari to counter ECM rats) - Mining and Salvage drones for all factions (afaik the requirements are fullfilled)
And a question: what can Amarr and Gallente chars use with only Missile Launcher Operation I? Light missiles and Rockets require more skills; probe launcher and scanner probes don't require this skill.
Looking for assignment: have missiles, will travel ...
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3714
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 11:53:29 -
[1527] - Quote
Voxinian wrote:The limitation on race and ships for alpha clones really need to looked at again.
Returning player scenario:
Old player has a Gallente toon that he/she trained to fly Caldari ships. Player comes back to EvE to check it out and can't fly any of the ships he still has in his hangar, because his character is originally Gallente. Old returning player logs out to never return again. Old player wouldn't have come back anyway, so this is not a net loss. Old player also isn't prepared to invest 2 days and 10 million isk into being able to fly Gallente ships reasonably and buying some Gal Frigs. Since you know, unless they extracted the skills (In which case they aren't long unsubscribed) they have Gal Frigate 3 in your example already, plus some Gal weapon skills. So not seeing why the old player needs pandering to in this case when they are that impatient and throwing a wobbly that they can't use their previous FOTM ships for free. |
Voxinian
126
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 14:24:58 -
[1528] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Voxinian wrote:The limitation on race and ships for alpha clones really need to looked at again.
Returning player scenario:
Old player has a Gallente toon that he/she trained to fly Caldari ships. Player comes back to EvE to check it out and can't fly any of the ships he still has in his hangar, because his character is originally Gallente. Old returning player logs out to never return again. Old player wouldn't have come back anyway, so this is not a net loss. Old player also isn't prepared to invest 2 days and 10 million isk into being able to fly Gallente ships reasonably and buying some Gal Frigs. Since you know, unless they extracted the skills (In which case they aren't long unsubscribed) they have Gal Frigate 3 in your example already, plus some Gal weapon skills. So not seeing why the old player needs pandering to in this case when they are that impatient and throwing a wobbly that they can't use their previous FOTM ships for free.
It's more about preference than having to buy a ship from an other faction to fly with. I personally only fly missle boats ever since I started playing. And now when I checked back in EvE I find myself stuck with Amarr ships that I don't like to fly with. They should have given the choice with the first login after the update to pick the faction ships you want to fly with. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5526
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 20:03:43 -
[1529] - Quote
Voxinian wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Voxinian wrote:The limitation on race and ships for alpha clones really need to looked at again.
Returning player scenario:
Old player has a Gallente toon that he/she trained to fly Caldari ships. Player comes back to EvE to check it out and can't fly any of the ships he still has in his hangar, because his character is originally Gallente. Old returning player logs out to never return again. Old player wouldn't have come back anyway, so this is not a net loss. Old player also isn't prepared to invest 2 days and 10 million isk into being able to fly Gallente ships reasonably and buying some Gal Frigs. Since you know, unless they extracted the skills (In which case they aren't long unsubscribed) they have Gal Frigate 3 in your example already, plus some Gal weapon skills. So not seeing why the old player needs pandering to in this case when they are that impatient and throwing a wobbly that they can't use their previous FOTM ships for free. It's more about preference than having to buy a ship from an other faction to fly with. I personally only fly missle boats ever since I started playing. And now when I checked back in EvE I find myself stuck with Amarr ships that I don't like to fly with. They should have given the choice with the first login after the update to pick the faction ships you want to fly with.
I see where you are coming from, but I think you represent a small minority of players. I think the bulk of older players are pretty diversified in the types of ships they can fly. I can use all factions frigs, cruisers, assault frigs, assault cruisers, etc. I learned early on that as CCP tries to balance things being dedicated to just one weapons system, race, etc. often left one with some sub-optimal choices. So if I ever let this account go Alpha, no problems. Maybe they'll iterate on the Alpha clones and that option will pop up down the road...best you can hope for I think, barring extracting skills and injecting where you need them.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Voxinian
127
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 01:27:44 -
[1530] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
I see where you are coming from, but I think you represent a small minority of players. I think the bulk of older players are pretty diversified in the types of ships they can fly. I can use all factions frigs, cruisers, assault frigs, assault cruisers, etc. I learned early on that as CCP tries to balance things being dedicated to just one weapons system, race, etc. often left one with some sub-optimal choices. So if I ever let this account go Alpha, no problems. Maybe they'll iterate on the Alpha clones and that option will pop up down the road...best you can hope for I think, barring extracting skills and injecting where you need them.
Maybe I am a minority that is too attached to flying missile boats, but thats a part of EvE for me. I identify myself as Caldary (roleplay) that flies fhips doing 'swoosh swoosh' instead of doing 'pew pew', but alas I chose the Amarr faction 7 years ago when I first touched EvE. I can fly any faction ship, but I don't want to
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Carl Kowalski
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 11:27:32 -
[1531] - Quote
Since the central "handle" of your pilot, which is known to the world, is the name, it should be possible to modify faction and appearance. Maybe CCP should offer every Omega pilot falling back to Alpha status a once in a lifetime option to change the faction.
On the other hand will a succesful company never not nudge the customer into paying for stuff
Looking for assignment: have missiles, will travel ...
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1243
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 12:10:24 -
[1532] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Voxinian wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Voxinian wrote:The limitation on race and ships for alpha clones really need to looked at again.
Returning player scenario:
Old player has a Gallente toon that he/she trained to fly Caldari ships. Player comes back to EvE to check it out and can't fly any of the ships he still has in his hangar, because his character is originally Gallente. Old returning player logs out to never return again. Old player wouldn't have come back anyway, so this is not a net loss. Old player also isn't prepared to invest 2 days and 10 million isk into being able to fly Gallente ships reasonably and buying some Gal Frigs. Since you know, unless they extracted the skills (In which case they aren't long unsubscribed) they have Gal Frigate 3 in your example already, plus some Gal weapon skills. So not seeing why the old player needs pandering to in this case when they are that impatient and throwing a wobbly that they can't use their previous FOTM ships for free. It's more about preference than having to buy a ship from an other faction to fly with. I personally only fly missle boats ever since I started playing. And now when I checked back in EvE I find myself stuck with Amarr ships that I don't like to fly with. They should have given the choice with the first login after the update to pick the faction ships you want to fly with. I see where you are coming from, but I think you represent a small minority of players. I think the bulk of older players are pretty diversified in the types of ships they can fly. I can use all factions frigs, cruisers, assault frigs, assault cruisers, etc. I learned early on that as CCP tries to balance things being dedicated to just one weapons system, race, etc. often left one with some sub-optimal choices. So if I ever let this account go Alpha, no problems. Maybe they'll iterate on the Alpha clones and that option will pop up down the road...best you can hope for I think, barring extracting skills and injecting where you need them. I think if you look back through the thread (and bother to talk to a few returning players - many who don't end up returning due to new limitations from a decision made 6 or 7 years ago) you'll find it is a pretty large minority. I can fly all factions up to capitals on most of my accounts but that isn't to say I would be happy to be locked into flying amarr ships for X activity when I know Gallente is a better option. In fact Amarr would be last choice for most activities in cruisers and below without T2 fittings, which unfortunately means most of my accounts would be pretty useless to me as Alpha's.
Then you have new players selecting, for example Caldari and finding a week or two later, Caldari just doesn't cut it for X activity and so they stop logging in.
Maybe ALL Alpha's should have the option to fly ships from 2 factions, so a mistake early on doesn't mean a wasted, less than desirable experience.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3714
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:14:37 -
[1533] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Maybe ALL Alpha's should have the option to fly ships from 2 factions, so a mistake early on doesn't mean a wasted, less than desirable experience.
Or we could finally balance a lot of those ships properly..... Just a thought. Rather than perpetuate FOTM (Or Decade in some cases) |
mkint
1230
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 14:19:41 -
[1534] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:
Maybe ALL Alpha's should have the option to fly ships from 2 factions, so a mistake early on doesn't mean a wasted, less than desirable experience.
Or we could finally balance a lot of those ships properly..... Just a thought. Rather than perpetuate FOTM (Or Decade in some cases) Balance doesn't mean all ships are equally good at everything. It means all factions are equally good at something. The problem is that most of the time, the something isn't very worthwhile. The locked in faction thing also means that those guys who got lucky and chose the *right* faction will be pissed off at the next inevitable balance pass and their entire Alpha career is retroactively rendered worthless.
Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun.
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Matthias Ancaladron
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.11.18 20:11:41 -
[1535] - Quote
Is there any statistics on the first few days of new players joining or percentage of increase from normal |
Matthias Khenakhtre
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 20:11:41 -
[1536] - Quote
Is there any statistics on the first few days of new players joining or percentage of increase from normal |
Matthias Ancaladron
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 20:15:38 -
[1537] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:
Maybe ALL Alpha's should have the option to fly ships from 2 factions, so a mistake early on doesn't mean a wasted, less than desirable experience.
Or we could finally balance a lot of those ships properly..... Just a thought. Rather than perpetuate FOTM (Or Decade in some cases)
I've actually always picked ships based on looks lol. My two favorite gallente ships were exequror (pre logistics/skin change) and celestis. I started Caldari in 2009 for character portrait, immediate went gallente ships cause Caldari ships were ugly. But now they fixed the moa, blackbird, raven, scorpion and the new destroyer and bc look good. They just need to reskin all the others. Also I like amarr for the maller/oracle/abbadon/apocalypse best looking ships in the game right there. |
Matthias Khenakhtre
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 20:15:38 -
[1538] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:
Maybe ALL Alpha's should have the option to fly ships from 2 factions, so a mistake early on doesn't mean a wasted, less than desirable experience.
Or we could finally balance a lot of those ships properly..... Just a thought. Rather than perpetuate FOTM (Or Decade in some cases)
I've actually always picked ships based on looks lol. My two favorite gallente ships were exequror (pre logistics/skin change) and celestis. I started Caldari in 2009 for character portrait, immediate went gallente ships cause Caldari ships were ugly. But now they fixed the moa, blackbird, raven, scorpion and the new destroyer and bc look good. They just need to reskin all the others. Also I like amarr for the maller/oracle/abbadon/apocalypse best looking ships in the game right there. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3714
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 23:46:35 -
[1539] - Quote
mkint wrote: Balance doesn't mean all ships are equally good at everything. It means all factions are equally good at something. The problem is that most of the time, the something isn't very worthwhile. The locked in faction thing also means that those guys who got lucky and chose the *right* faction will be pissed off at the next inevitable balance pass and their entire Alpha career is retroactively rendered worthless.
Locked in factions mean at those levels all the factions should be equally good at all common choices. They should have been that way even before alpha clones anyway for good balance. Ship choice for a generic activity, ala Frigate PvP should never be faction biased. If you start getting down to the nitty gritty of 'I want to speed kite PvP' then sure it's going to get specialised, but all the factions should be equally viable for the generic activity. And yes, they aren't currently, and that is a big issue overall. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5527
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 03:39:49 -
[1540] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:
Maybe ALL Alpha's should have the option to fly ships from 2 factions, so a mistake early on doesn't mean a wasted, less than desirable experience.
Or we could finally balance a lot of those ships properly..... Just a thought. Rather than perpetuate FOTM (Or Decade in some cases)
That seems like the best option...but also probably the hardest to do.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Helio Anthus
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.11.26 21:35:37 -
[1541] - Quote
Really, we are calling this free to play. This is like when Warcraft started letting you play Oh, but wait only to 20, and then half the game was off limits. This is still a trial, not a time limit one true, but its still a trial.
Free to play means that, well, your free to play. I like training slower, things more difficult, pay to get past grinding parts. But free to play means you can play the whole game. Call it what it is a trail account with limited skills. to play you have to pay.
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Voxinian
143
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Posted - 2016.11.26 22:01:21 -
[1542] - Quote
Helio Anthus wrote:Really, we are calling this free to play. This is like when Warcraft started letting you play Oh, but wait only to 20, and then half the game was off limits. This is still a trial, not a time limit one true, but its still a trial.
Free to play means that, well, your free to play. I like training slower, things more difficult, pay to get past grinding parts. But free to play means you can play the whole game. Call it what it is a trail account with limited skills. to play you have to pay.
CCP ddin't state it was going to be free to play, but 'free access'. |
ptitz
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 22:02:05 -
[1543] - Quote
Baby steps but honestly nowhere near enough for me. I love EvE. I have tried no less than a dozen times to really "get into" it, and have come close, sometimes spending 2 or 3 months at a time playing. But the problem with is game is the subscription model. I don't mind having to pay for the game once I'm well and truly "in" and have joined a corp that I like and really started to plumb the depths of what I want to do with the game, but this is basically WoW's "free to level 20" nonsense, wherein you really can't play the game without paying.
My problem is that I want to be able to pick this game up and put it down, and requiring a subscription model really puts that stress on my mind that I either need to get my money's worth out of it every month I pay, or I shouldn't be playing. There are a ton of free games that I'm happy putting money into, a-la hearthstone, planetside 2, and warframe to name three that I've dumped well over $200 into each. But the monthly payment on EvE just hasn't proven itself to be a valuable asset to me yet, and the fact that I can't really get in and play the way I want, with the ships and tools I want, relegates alpha clones to be far "too little" to get me to even bother.
My recommendations:
looser restrictions on what a clone can do. I want to get to level II mining, up to battlecruisers, have the ability to use ANY faction ship and weapon (seriously that restriction is just ********) and just be locked out of the really high tier content.
If you want players to jump on a free to play game, it has to feel to them like they aren't being arbitrarily restricted. The game should be essentially all access until they are well and truly hooked, which in a game with such an incredible learning curve as EvE, can take six months or more.
Essentially, Alpha clone is a slightly less restrictive form of WoW's or SWTOR's "free to play" aspects, which are just too limiting to even count.
Hell, I'd also be okay with a cheap $5/mo sub that does everything but give you access to the final tier of equipment.
I've always said that if EvE goes truly F2P I'd pick it up in a heartbeat and probably throw a lot of money at microtransactions and maybe one of the "premium" subscriptions once I'm deeper in the game, but as it stands, I've tried over and over to get past that "hump", but the anxiety of having to learn a game as daunting as this combined with the subscription fee has always created too much of an artificial hurdle. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1256
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Posted - 2016.12.08 21:14:38 -
[1544] - Quote
Voxinian wrote:Helio Anthus wrote:Really, we are calling this free to play. This is like when Warcraft started letting you play Oh, but wait only to 20, and then half the game was off limits. This is still a trial, not a time limit one true, but its still a trial.
Free to play means that, well, your free to play. I like training slower, things more difficult, pay to get past grinding parts. But free to play means you can play the whole game. Call it what it is a trail account with limited skills. to play you have to pay.
CCP ddin't state it was going to be free to play, but 'free access'. Semantics - Free Access = Free 2 Play with limits, like most games out there. It simply comes down to how much "free access" the "free 2 play" model allows.
I don't think CCP has quite found the right level of access yet but judging by numbers online each day, what they have allowed is working.
Six months from now will show whether Alpha clones are in the right place - If current numbers are maintained AND subs increase, then you could call Alpha Clone states a success. Eve is after all a business, for alpha clone states to be a successful thing it needs to generate income for CCP.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Josef Djugashvilis
3499
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Posted - 2016.12.08 22:28:04 -
[1545] - Quote
Dear Ptitz, I sincerely hope that you get what you want, just think, if CCP allow free-loaders to do pretty much anything they want, then I and all the other folk who pay to play could also become free loaders and that would really help CCP's finances.
Jeez, man, just buy a PLEX or something.
Take care.
This is not a signature.
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Josef Djugashvilis
3499
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 22:30:55 -
[1546] - Quote
Double post, sorry folks.
This is not a signature.
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Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords Kraftwerk.
77
|
Posted - 2016.12.13 14:09:00 -
[1547] - Quote
First of all: Let me congratulate CCP for this amazing new improvement for eve online. I LOVE the existance of alpha clones! Reasons are as followed: - New people can try out the game in much more detail and decide what to do later on - These new player provide a lot of additional content for exististing players, for almost all of the existing professions - The additional players that decide to pay later on, provide CCP with funds to improve the game further - A steady playerbase is the fundament for the longevity of Eve online - For casual sporadic pvp-purposes people may even alpha longtime - The restriction in income-skills (pve, mining etc) keeps the impact from beein harmfull to the economy - doubt many omegas (if at all) would drop to alphas, if they would otherwise have continued payment
It's very thought through and balanced. I am often surprised of the solutions ccp provided for handlung issues. Interesting and awe-worthy (:
Little tweak from my side though: PvP in T1-Cruisers should be possible for alphas, with the most basic modules. I view Tech 2 Invuls as one of the most basic modules any T1-shield-cruiser needs. The meta versions has a really low resistance bonus, for remote repping and ist hardly worth the slot. Especially for Invuls the faction-variants are CRAZY expensive (starting at 250mil isk) and may as well not exist for T1-cruiser PvP. I would therefore suggest allowing alphas access to tech 2 resistance modules (especially invuls), as these are among the most basic modules needed to accomplish anything. Otherwise i would really be interested in your reasoning, as to why they shouldn't be included. In case there is something i did not take into consideration.
Pretty much all other bread-and-butter modules for t1-cruiser-pvp are allowed for alphas. T2-weapons would need weapons skill on 5, so the reasoning here is obvious. T2-weapons would be hard to fit with the cpu/grid restrictions anyway. But what's the reasoning behind not allowing T2-resistance modules?
Ah, I just noticed. T2-armor hardeners need a skill on lvl 5, so you didnt want to include these. And you disallowed t2-shield resistance, to keep it balanced? Maybe setting the skill restrictions for t2-armor hardeners to lvl 4 would be the way to go.
Looking forward to your answer. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
381
|
Posted - 2016.12.13 21:04:13 -
[1548] - Quote
Well - as it stands an Omega in the same ship and fit as Alpha is approx 40% more effective altogehter. All these little things add up that is the numerical difference on average. There are some common fits that wont work at all as they rely on max skills to function.
So I'm maintaining my standpoint that as implemented the current version is pay to win even in the niche marked for alphas to play (i.e., T1 frigate, destroyer and cruiser hulls).
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Marmofeels
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2017.01.10 18:03:23 -
[1549] - Quote
It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships. Thanks CCP |
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1290
|
Posted - 2017.01.10 20:53:18 -
[1550] - Quote
Marmofeels wrote:It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships. Thanks CCP CCP want you to pay to use other factions ships. Alpha clones are simply to introduce you to Eve. If you want to move past that "introduction" stage, be able to fly more ships and use more things in the game, give that credit card a spin.
Alpha clones were never meant for you to "play Eve", just try it out for free.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3659
|
Posted - 2017.01.11 00:27:08 -
[1551] - Quote
Marmofeels wrote:It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships. Thanks CCP
Why is it either or? Star a new character WITHOUT deleting the old one. Hell, start 4, one for each race. There is NOTHING stopping you. You cannot play them simultaneously unless you sub them up but if you have a need for speed, log on the Minnie, want shhhh boom missiles? Caldari time.
and you still keep the original character, simple, eh?
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Marmofeels
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2017.01.11 01:20:16 -
[1552] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Marmofeels wrote:It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships. Thanks CCP CCP want you to pay to use other factions ships. Alpha clones are simply to introduce you to Eve. If you want to move past that "introduction" stage, be able to fly more ships and use more things in the game, give that credit card a spin. Alpha clones were never meant for you to "play Eve", just try it out for free. The thing is, they just arbitrarily added that restriction despite races having been purely cosmetic before. I wanted to try to get into PvP but all my skills are in Caldari. And hell, IIRC this restriction didn't even exist for the old Trial Accounts
Mike Azariah wrote:Marmofeels wrote:It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships. Thanks CCP Why is it either or? Star a new character WITHOUT deleting the old one. Hell, start 4, one for each race. There is NOTHING stopping you. You cannot play them simultaneously unless you sub them up but if you have a need for speed, log on the Minnie, want shhhh boom missiles? Caldari time. and you still keep the original character, simple, eh? Making an entirely new character and having to re-train all my skills because of a limit that shouldn't be there isn't exactly something I want to do. Also, when it comes to new players, I'm not sure people would be too hyped to have to make 4 different characters to try the game. |
Aves Asio
39
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Posted - 2017.01.11 10:31:23 -
[1553] - Quote
You can have thousands of alpha accounts, you can even have them loged in all at the same time if you have enough processing power or physical machines. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3820
|
Posted - 2017.01.11 11:13:38 -
[1554] - Quote
Aves Asio wrote:You can have thousands of alpha accounts, you can even have them loged in all at the same time if you have enough processing power or physical machines. No you can't. Or rather it might be technically possible but if CCP notice you will get mass banned on all your accounts. So lets not encourage people to cheat.
As for the above poster, get into PvP on your Amarr ships then. You have all the supports trained already, training Amarr Frig/Destroyer is mere days even at alpha speed, in the time you've been posting here you could already be out in space with other friends doing PvP. |
Marmofeels
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2017.01.11 17:30:29 -
[1555] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Aves Asio wrote:You can have thousands of alpha accounts, you can even have them loged in all at the same time if you have enough processing power or physical machines. No you can't. Or rather it might be technically possible but if CCP notice you will get mass banned on all your accounts. So lets not encourage people to cheat. As for the above poster, get into PvP on your Amarr ships then. You have all the supports trained already, training Amarr Frig/Destroyer is mere days even at alpha speed, in the time you've been posting here you could already be out in space with other friends doing PvP. Amarr ships turned out to be really boring though, imho. I prefer missiles over lasers |
Kaia Lin Garemoko
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:35:45 -
[1556] - Quote
Of all the restrictions, I think having the industrial ships with specialized cargo holds being racially-locked is the only one that only disadvantages some Alpha players and not all of them.
Minmatar have a T1 hauler with an ammo hold? Whoop-de-doo. I've literally never seen one in space, and ammo isn't something all players use as only some guns require it. But Ore? Everyone depends on ore, and only the Miasmos (Gallente) have a T1 industrial with an ore hold substantially larger than the everyone-can-fly Venture.
This would seem to require everyone to have one Gallente Alpha clone, in a way other races aren't required. Even PvP gangs robbing said Haulers must swap to a Gallente Alpha clone themselves to come pick up the loot. This would seem to mean that more Alpha clones will wind up being one race, which in my mind is just silly.
I've seen several "solutions", such as moving the Miasmos to the ORE faction, or adding specialized hauler ships to every race... but the simplest would be to simply extend an Alpha clone's available skills to cover the Industrial ships of other races. Right now it's the starter Corvette (even though you can't use the weapons on them??) and a Shuttle--moving that Omega blockage one group to the right (and obviously up to lock off Tier 2s) would solve it easily and with the least amount of work.
I don't know the details, but I can't imagine CCP wants every single-purpose hauler be one race disproportionately. This one thing isn't enough to get me to PLEX, but this one thing does become a hindrance to only certain Alpha players. I'm gonna wind up subbing anyway, but if the entire Alpha system is to remain, this lone thing doesn't seem to jive with the intent. |
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1306
|
Posted - 2017.02.24 06:41:20 -
[1557] - Quote
Kaia Lin Garemoko wrote:Of all the restrictions, I think having the industrial ships with specialized cargo holds being racially-locked is the only one that only disadvantages some Alpha players and not all of them.
Minmatar have a T1 hauler with an ammo hold? Whoop-de-doo. I've literally never seen one in space, and ammo isn't something all players use as only some guns require it. But Ore? Everyone depends on ore, and only the Miasmos (Gallente) have a T1 industrial with an ore hold substantially larger than the everyone-can-fly Venture.
This would seem to require everyone to have one Gallente Alpha clone, in a way other races aren't required. Even PvP gangs robbing said Haulers must swap to a Gallente Alpha clone themselves to come pick up the loot. This would seem to mean that more Alpha clones will wind up being one race, which in my mind is just silly.
I've seen several "solutions", such as moving the Miasmos to the ORE faction, or adding specialized hauler ships to every race... but the simplest would be to simply extend an Alpha clone's available skills to cover the Industrial ships of other races. Right now it's the starter Corvette (even though you can't use the weapons on them??) and a Shuttle--moving that Omega blockage one group to the right (and obviously up to lock off Tier 2s) would solve it easily and with the least amount of work.
I don't know the details, but I can't imagine CCP wants every single-purpose hauler be one race disproportionately. This one thing isn't enough to get me to PLEX, but this one thing does become a hindrance to only certain Alpha players. I'm gonna wind up subbing anyway, but if the entire Alpha system is to remain, this lone thing doesn't seem to jive with the intent. How about the most simple solution to your hauling issue - Have a Gal faction Alpha in fleet with you to haul. Eve is about working in groups, what better way to start working in groups than having different faction Alpha's in the same isk making fleet.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1500
|
Posted - 2017.02.24 21:12:11 -
[1558] - Quote
I think alphas should just be able to choose what race skillset they want to use regardless of their race. Maybe allow a new choice every 4 months or something.
Suddenly its all balanced.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3693
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 00:47:06 -
[1559] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I think alphas should just be able to choose what race skillset they want to use regardless of their race. Maybe allow a new choice every 4 months or something.
Suddenly its all balanced.
Why not just have 4 slots instead of the current 3 for characters on an account? Then they can do one of each. Yes, I know they could make 4 accounts and many do but . . . a choices is made and consequences result. Is that not partially what Eve is about?
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1306
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 01:27:49 -
[1560] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I think alphas should just be able to choose what race skillset they want to use regardless of their race. Maybe allow a new choice every 4 months or something.
Suddenly its all balanced. Alphas have the choice to fly and train all Alpha skill sets at any time. Accounts are free to start and free to play, just create alts. Much the same as Omega players do.
Within the Alpha skill sets you're only limited by your willingness to click "create new character"
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
14
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 20:27:48 -
[1561] - Quote
Perhaps the next step is Beta clones, which will open up access to more things - T2 ships, or mining barges, or PI (or all three) for example. Or cross training other faction's ships up to cruiser. Perhaps this would come with a smaller monthly subscription fee.
CCP would have to be careful though, not to set up a situation where any significant fraction of their current subscriber base decides to downgrade their subscription. |
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