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PETITION: Stop the Cloak Nerf!!

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Cadela Fria Amarr The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:50:00 - [1] This is a petition to stop the cloaking nerf from ever setting foot on the TQ server. Sign if you agree. Be quiet those of you who don't agree, this is a petition, not a discussion, please. If you absolutely can't contain yourself, be civil about it, and don't flame! Originally by: CCP Fendahl The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes, so the BS fleet could have its scouts scan for hidden surprises. & Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here). Brothers and Sisters of EVE! Many a nerf has bethrothed the universe of EVE, many of which we have all learned to deal with and overcome. Most of the time we succeded, and have since lived in relative harmony with the changes, HOWEVER, this time they have gone TOO Far! This new nerf to cloaks that makes it detectable via probes is outragous! My fellow reconship collegues will know precisely what I'm talking about! The way we move and exist in EVE through cloaking, is a lifestyle for many of us, and right from the get-go(sp?) when people complained about AFK cloakers we were confident that such ignorant arguments wouldnt be of any result in the longer run. I mean the argument itself is flawed - "We can't mine cause theres an AFK cloaker in our system, spying on us" - Well that tells me YOU aren't putting up enough/any protection of your mining op, or you have no confidence in your protection force - Either way you lose. It also tells me you haven't been creative enough about what you're doing, lure the cloaker, bait him into doing something rash that'll get him killed..and he's really AFK, then whats the problem??? YOU made it difficult for yourself and thats YOUR fault. If you really can't handle the pressure of an enemy being in the same system as you, well, THEN MOVE!! It is an entirely poor idea altogether, IN MY OPINION, that cloaking has to suffer just because those who still get terrorized by cloaks, haven't been smart enough to figure out a solution - It is infact ****** (Sorry about the word, really, but it is) that it is yet again US (the cloakers/pirates) that have to come up with a solution just because some of you...people... can't think for yourselves. I'm taking a stand against this NERF, because of all things I have accepted in the past and adapted to - Of all the nerfs I have twisted my brain around to continue like I did, this is a DIRECT assault on my way of playing EVE, and I will not accept it! Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right**
Grash Freedom Gallente MAZA Solutions	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:53:00 - [2] first still can't understand how an afk cloaker can harm you anyways, he is afk for the love of god if he is not afk then he is doing his job
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:54:00 - [3] Originally by: Cadela Fria Be quiet those of you who don't agree, this is a petition, not a discussion, please. Wrong forum. It reads 'EVE General Discussion' afaik. --------------------------------------------- snip
Cadela Fria Amarr The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:55:00 - [4] Originally by: Topaz Skydiver Originally by: Cadela Fria Be quiet those of you who don't agree, this is a petition, not a discussion, please. Wrong forum. It reads 'EVE General Discussion' afaik. pwned You're right it is...I just posted it here so most people would see it. Hope you'll bear with me on this. Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:57:00 - [5] /signed this hits TQ and my characters walk Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:58:00 - [6] I agree... People who are pant-wettingly terrified of cloakers clearly don't understand game mechanics, and concepts such as targeting delay, bait, ewar, relative value (of a pilgrim vs. a t1 bait ship, as well as skill training time), scouting, watching local, and using that poor little duty neuron that's lurking somewhere inside your head. By all means, give people a way to nuke people with cloaks on combat ships who are lazy or afk. However, the problem is not nearly as bad as wcs on combat ships, or even nanos were. I have heard no specific instances of the problem at all, merely some vague whines. The whole bandwagon has came out of nowhere. As far as I can see most arguments are "boost the uber-rich faction fitted vindicator pilot, and the blob. Nerf everything else". Gack.
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:03:00 - [7] Nerf The Cloak i no longer care any more the people that cry loud get there way in the end any way..
Andargor theWise Collateral Damage Unlimited	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:03:00 - [8] Originally by: ToxicFire /signed this hits TQ and my characters walk Your stuff I can have? - Got grief? Revelations MySQL Database
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:04:00 - [9] i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found.
Vergil Mathers	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:05:00 - [10] NOT signed.. Covops / Stealth bombers should, and hopefully will continue to be invisible.. unless you are really dumb.. HOWEVER.. Carriers / Titans / MS / BS / Dread? / etc... I don't think that these huge ships were ever meant to disappear. That is just dumb.. Role with the punches.. adapt.. I'm interested to see how this all plays out
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Peanut Swsh i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found. Proof or stfu.
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:08:00 - [12] Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Originally by: Peanut Swsh i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found. Proof or stfu. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527754 ^_^
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Grash Freedom first still can't understand how an afk cloaker can harm you anyways, he is afk for the love of god if he is not afk then he is doing his job If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go. == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Cadela Fria Amarr The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:10:00 - [14] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 28/05/2007 15:12:15 Edited by: Cadela Fria on 28/05/2007 15:10:53 Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Grash Freedom first still can't understand how an afk cloaker can harm you anyways, he is afk for the love of god if he is not afk then he is doing his job If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go. Like I said, this is not a discussion, but since you kept it civil I'll entertain your argument: You say theres a reason hes sitting AFK...yeah..he's AFK, thats it... How he is harming you? If you're this paranoid, you're the one harmful to yourself, which is not the cloaker's fault. Why is he there? Could be any number of reasons, passing through, doing stuff there later, doing something now just waiting to strike - Or, hes abusing his knowledge that you're paranoid about him being there to his advantage, which is again - YOUR FAULT, not his. Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
IHurricane Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:11:00 - [15] Edited by: IHurricane on 28/05/2007 15:09:47 Originally by: Grash Freedom first still can't understand how an afk cloaker can harm you anyways, he is afk for the love of god if he is not afk then he is doing his job How the hell do you know he is afk? This nerf is imo some of the better things CCP has done. If the cloeacker is not afk, then this nerf will not touch him. --------------------------------------------- There was never a genius, without a tincture of madness - Aristotle
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Peanut Swsh Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Originally by: Peanut Swsh i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found. Proof or stfu. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527754 ^_^ No, the "tiny smidgeon" part, not the "pant wetting" part
Big Al The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:13:00 - [17] Originally by: hydraSlav If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go. This is the point isn't it? Local = effortless gameplay. OH NOES, WE CAN'T CAREBARE EVIL CLOAKER IN SYSTEM!!!111oneoneone Remove local and maybe scanning FOR (not down) cloakers would be decent gameplay.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:17:00 - [18] Edited by: hydraSlav on 28/05/2007 15:16:11 Originally by: Big Al Originally by: hydraSlav If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go. This is the point isn't it? Local = effortless gameplay. OH NOES, WE CAN'T CAREBARE EVIL CLOAKER IN SYSTEM!!!111oneoneone Remove local and maybe scanning FOR (not down) cloakers would be decent gameplay. I agree on removing local, look in my sig == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Big Al Originally by: hydraSlav If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go. This is the point isn't it? Local = effortless gameplay. OH NOES, WE CAN'T CAREBARE EVIL CLOAKER IN SYSTEM!!!111oneoneone Remove local and maybe scanning FOR (not down) cloakers would be decent gameplay. It's more that it's "OH NOES, WE CAN'T CAREBEAR WHILE MOSTLY AFK!!!one THE EFFORT OF GANGING WITH OTHER RATTERS/MINERS/ALTS IS TOO MUCH FOR US!!!" sigh When this comes through, I just hope it's balanced reasonably well, and that it will be changed if it is not.
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:19:00 - [20] Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 28/05/2007 15:18:57 Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Originally by: Peanut Swsh Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Originally by: Peanut Swsh i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found. Proof or stfu. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527754 ^_^ No, the "tiny smidgeon" part, not the "pant wetting" part get in a cruiser, go to any system. jump from safe to safe. now tell someone to finding you with only scan probes and no directional scanner, you would have to be asleep for him to even get on the same grid as you. you don't even need a cloak, and you are already impossible to find. with a cloak? even if people manage to get a valid hit on you with a scan probe, its highly unlikely they will be able to land within 2000m of you (to uncloak you), i'd go so far as saying that this would never happen, unless you were stationary (AFK), within 5AU of the prober. even if they do land reasonably close, they have no idea what direction you are from the jump in point, or how far you are or if you are even still there. hell until they scan again, they won't even know if you have warped or not.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:20:00 - [21] RECONS CAN WARP WHILE CLOAKED RECONS MOVE QUICKLY WHILE CLOAKED This will not change anything except: Remove AFK cloakers, and make isk farming ravens/badgers tremble in their boots. Cloaking capitals, especially motherships and titans are bull****. This is for the good of eve. They have to probe you AND warp to you AND then decloak you.... the probe will not instantly vaporise your ship.. it just gives the rest of eve a chance. Those most at risk are the farmers who SS and cloak instantly when hostiles enter system. They have to decloak to change safe spots. They are slow when cloaked. Therefore when they ss and cloak they are no longer invincible, they can be probed and warped too... the hunters can then deploy drones and start sweeping the area for the farmer. I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers.
Psyllus Ktenas Amarr BlackHole Entertainment	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:22:00 - [22] Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 28/05/2007 15:23:07 Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 28/05/2007 15:21:22 /signed I have no problem with the probing of ships that use any cloak except the Covops Cloak II. edit: Btw the scanning down of any cloaked ship with the standard scanner is imo just plain stupid.
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Peanut Swsh Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 28/05/2007 15:18:57 Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Originally by: Peanut Swsh Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Originally by: Peanut Swsh i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found. Proof or stfu. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527754 ^_^ No, the "tiny smidgeon" part, not the "pant wetting" part get in a cruiser, go to any system. jump from safe to safe. now tell someone to finding you with only scan probes and no directional scanner, you would have to be asleep for him to even get on the same grid as you. you don't even need a cloak, and you are already impossible to find. with a cloak? even if people manage to get a valid hit on you with a scan probe, its highly unlikely they will be able to land within 2000m of you (to uncloak you), i'd go so far as saying that this would never happen, unless you were stationary (AFK), within 5AU of the prober. even if they do land reasonably close, they have no idea what direction you are from the jump in point, or how far you are or if you are even still there. hell until they scan again, they won't even know if you have warped or not. You can catch people warping between safes, with patience. You can catch people with 20au probes outside their scanrange and get a "0 deviation" result. I know, I've done it to people before, and I've got the killmails.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:24:00 - [24] /unsigned AFK cloakers is a problem and this is the perfect way to solve it without hurting alliance intel operations using recon ships - a recon ship will be out of range when the searching force lands on it and it can just warp off. I see no problem with this nerf.
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:26:00 - [25] Originally by: umop 3pisdn RECONS CAN WARP WHILE CLOAKED RECONS MOVE QUICKLY WHILE CLOAKED This will not change anything except: Remove AFK cloakers, and make isk farming ravens/badgers tremble in their boots. Cloaking capitals, especially motherships and titans are bull****. This is for the good of eve. They have to probe you AND warp to you AND then decloak you.... the probe will not instantly vaporise your ship.. it just gives the rest of eve a chance. Those most at risk are the farmers who SS and cloak instantly when hostiles enter system. They have to decloak to change safe spots. They are slow when cloaked. Therefore when they ss and cloak they are no longer invincible, they can be probed and warped too... the hunters can then deploy drones and start sweeping the area for the farmer. I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers. Not just that. You will be able to run a probe to catch covops or recons watching you ongrid. Even if you warp constantly between points on that grid (and be careful of bubbles and debris!) you are at high risk. Getting an approach on that straggler has become even harder than it was, and it was hard enough tbh.
Cadela Fria Amarr The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:28:00 - [26] Originally by: umop 3pisdn RECONS CAN WARP WHILE CLOAKED So can uncloaked ships Originally by: umop 3pisdn RECONS MOVE QUICKLY WHILE CLOAKED So can uncloaked ships Originally by: umop 3pisdn This will not change anything except: Remove AFK cloakers, and make isk farming ravens/badgers tremble in their boots. Not true, it will make cloaking pointless Originally by: umop 3pisdn Cloaking capitals, especially motherships and titans are bull**. Why? I don't honestly see why any ship can't cloak..because it's not "fair" ? because it's "unbalanced" ? Look, have you EVER seen any instance anywhere, where cloaking was considered fair or balanced? Watch star trek and you'll see what I mean. Originally by:** umop 3pisdn This is for the good of eve. They have to probe you AND warp to you AND then decloak you.... the probe will not instantly vaporise your ship.. it just gives the rest of eve a chance. You might aswell not cloak at all, because all a person have to do, is warp to you, and then go forward really fast and you're done for. The only way to avoid this is if you're constantly moving, aligned to somewhere, in which case again, you might aswell not be cloaked at all. Originally by: umop 3pisdn Those most at risk are the farmers who SS and cloak instantly when hostiles enter system. They have to decloak to change safe spots. They are slow when cloaked. Therefore when they ss and cloak they are no longer invincible, they can be probed and warped too... the hunters can then deploy drones and start sweeping the area for the farmer. And thus again, he may aswell not be cloaked at all! Think about it...no seriously, think about it for a minute. Originally by: umop 3pisdn I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers. It'll destroy cloaking. Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Osmaal Courteous Ultra-Nice Transport Services	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:32:00 - [27] /SIGNED - CCP for the love of all that is holy and good step away from the nerf bat!! I'm a carebear, I've been pwned by cloaked ships - what's wrong with that? It just teaches you to be more careful. Its all part of Darwinism evolution.
bigfatbird New Justice	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:32:00 - [28] /signed If they really want to hurt the afk and macrofarming cloakers, then why not just make it impossible for any not recon/covops ship to fit a cloak? Or use DS idea that any cloaks except Covops II needs some fuel to run.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: umop 3pisdn I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers. It'll destroy cloaking. Cadela, if this little change is gonna "destroy cloaking", then you are not a covert-ops/recon pilot. umop 3pisdn, i completely agree with you. Any real covert-ops/recon pilot won't even notice the change. Only the AFKers and capitals are affected, which needed a fix badly anyways. Can't wait for this patch. == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Edited by: Savesti Kyrsst on 28/05/2007 15:27:41 Originally by: Peanut Swsh Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 28/05/2007 15:18:57 get in a cruiser, go to any system. jump from safe to safe. now tell someone to finding you with only scan probes and no directional scanner, you would have to be asleep for him to even get on the same grid as you. you don't even need a cloak, and you are already impossible to find. with a cloak? even if people manage to get a valid hit on you with a scan probe, its highly unlikely they will be able to land within 2000m of you (to uncloak you), i'd go so far as saying that this would never happen, unless you were stationary (AFK), within 5AU of the prober. even if they do land reasonably close, they have no idea what direction you are from the jump in point, or how far you are or if you are even still there. hell until they scan again, they won't even know if you have warped or not. You can catch people warping between safes, with patience. You can catch people with 20au probes outside their scanrange and get a "0 deviation" result. I know, I've done it to people before, and I've got the killmails. EDIT: oh, and you don't need the directional scanner, though it helps. You will get some picture from using the system map and looking at your probe results. they obviously weren't moving if you were able to probe them and catch them. takes like 5 seconds for a cruiser sized ship to align and warp. once you get a hit on probes, you aren't gonna be able to align, warp, land on them, lock and scram before they are long gone. and care to explain how to catch people warping between safes... afaik this isn't possible in eve. thou you do get some noobs who reuse safespots.

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