Originally by: CCP Fendahl

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The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes, so the BS fleet could have its scouts scan for hidden surprises.

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Originally by: Mephysto

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This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here).

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Be quiet those of you who don't agree, this is a petition, not a discussion, please.

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Originally by: Topaz Skydiver

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Be quiet those of you who don't agree, this is a petition, not a discussion, please.

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Wrong forum. It reads 'EVE General Discussion' afaik.

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Originally by: ToxicFire

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/signed this hits TQ and my characters walk

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Originally by: Peanut Swsh

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i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found.

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Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

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Originally by: Peanut Swsh

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i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found.

---

Proof or stfu.

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Originally by: Grash Freedom

---

first

still can't understand how an afk cloaker can harm you anyways, he is afk for the love of god

if he is not afk then he is doing his job

---

Originally by: hydraSlav

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Originally by: Grash Freedom

---

first

still can't understand how an afk cloaker can harm you anyways, he is afk for the love of god

if he is not afk then he is doing his job

---

If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go.

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Originally by: Grash Freedom

---

first

still can't understand how an afk cloaker can harm you anyways, he is afk for the love of god

if he is not afk then he is doing his job

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

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Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

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i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found.

---

Proof or stfu.

---

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527754 ^_^

---

Originally by: hydraSlav

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If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go.

---

Originally by: Big Al

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Originally by: hydraSlav

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If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go.

---

This is the point isn't it? Local = effortless gameplay.

OH NOES, WE CAN'T CAREBARE EVIL CLOAKER IN SYSTEM!!!111oneoneone

Remove local and maybe scanning FOR (not down) cloakers would be decent gameplay.

---

Originally by: Big Al

---

Originally by: hydraSlav

---

If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go.

---

This is the point isn't it? Local = effortless gameplay.

OH NOES, WE CAN'T CAREBARE EVIL CLOAKER IN SYSTEM!!!111oneoneone

Remove local and maybe scanning FOR (not down) cloakers would be decent gameplay.

---

Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

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Originally by: Peanut Swsh

---

Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

---

i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found.

---

Proof or stfu.

---

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527754 ^_^

---

No, the "tiny smidgeon" part, not the "pant wetting" part

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

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Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 28/05/2007 15:18:57

Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

---

Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

---

i think it is the cloakers who are wetting their pants, because now there is a tiny smidgen of a chance they can be found.

---

Proof or stfu.

---

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527754 ^_^

---

No, the "tiny smidgeon" part, not the "pant wetting" part

---

get in a cruiser, go to any system. jump from safe to safe. now tell someone to finding you with only scan probes and no directional scanner, you would have to be asleep for him to even get on the same grid as you. you don't even need a cloak, and you are already impossible to find.

with a cloak? even if people manage to get a valid hit on you with a scan probe, its highly unlikely they will be able to land within 2000m of you (to uncloak you), i'd go so far as saying that this would never happen, unless you were stationary (AFK), within 5AU of the prober. even if they do land reasonably close, they have no idea what direction you are from the jump in point, or how far you are or if you are even still there. hell until they scan again, they won't even know if you have warped or not.

---

Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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RECONS CAN WARP WHILE CLOAKED

RECONS MOVE QUICKLY WHILE CLOAKED

This will not change anything except: Remove AFK cloakers, and make isk farming ravens/badgers tremble in their boots.

Cloaking capitals, especially motherships and titans are bull****.

This is for the good of eve. They have to probe you AND warp to you AND then decloak you.... the probe will not instantly vaporise your ship.. it just gives the rest of eve a chance.

Those most at risk are the farmers who SS and cloak instantly when hostiles enter system. They have to decloak to change safe spots.
They are slow when cloaked. Therefore when they ss and cloak they are no longer invincible, they can be probed and warped too... the hunters can then deploy drones and start sweeping the area for the farmer.


I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers.

---

Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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RECONS CAN WARP WHILE CLOAKED

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Originally by: umop 3pisdn

---

RECONS MOVE QUICKLY WHILE CLOAKED

---

Originally by: umop 3pisdn

---

This will not change anything except: Remove AFK cloakers, and make isk farming ravens/badgers tremble in their boots.

---

Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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Cloaking capitals, especially motherships and titans are bull****.

---

Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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This is for the good of eve. They have to probe you AND warp to you AND then decloak you.... the probe will not instantly vaporise your ship.. it just gives the rest of eve a chance.

---

Originally by: umop 3pisdn

---

Those most at risk are the farmers who SS and cloak instantly when hostiles enter system. They have to decloak to change safe spots.
They are slow when cloaked. Therefore when they ss and cloak they are no longer invincible, they can be probed and warped too... the hunters can then deploy drones and start sweeping the area for the farmer.

---

Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers.

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers.

---

It'll destroy cloaking.

---

Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

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Edited by: Savesti Kyrsst on 28/05/2007 15:27:41

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

---

Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 28/05/2007 15:18:57
get in a cruiser, go to any system. jump from safe to safe. now tell someone to finding you with only scan probes and no directional scanner, you would have to be asleep for him to even get on the same grid as you. you don't even need a cloak, and you are already impossible to find.

with a cloak? even if people manage to get a valid hit on you with a scan probe, its highly unlikely they will be able to land within 2000m of you (to uncloak you), i'd go so far as saying that this would never happen, unless you were stationary (AFK), within 5AU of the prober. even if they do land reasonably close, they have no idea what direction you are from the jump in point, or how far you are or if you are even still there. hell until they scan again, they won't even know if you have warped or not.

---

You can catch people warping between safes, with patience.

You can catch people with 20au probes outside their scanrange and get a "0 deviation" result.

I know, I've done it to people before, and I've got the killmails.

EDIT: oh, and you don't need the directional scanner, though it helps. You will get some picture from using the system map and looking at your probe results.

---

Originally by: hydraSlav

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers.

---

It'll destroy cloaking.

---

Cadela, if this little change is gonna "destroy cloaking", then you are not a covert-ops/recon pilot.

umop 3pisdn, i completely agree with you. Any real covert-ops/recon pilot won't even notice the change. Only the AFKers and capitals are affected, which needed a fix badly anyways.

Can't wait for this patch.

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

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they obviously weren't moving if you were able to probe them and catch them. takes like 5 seconds for a cruiser sized ship to align and warp. once you get a hit on probes, you aren't gonna be able to align, warp, land on them, lock and scram before they are long gone.

and care to explain how to catch people warping between safes... afaik this isn't possible in eve. thou you do get some noobs who reuse safespots.

---

Originally by: hydraSlav

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers.

---

It'll destroy cloaking.

---

Cadela, if this little change is gonna "destroy cloaking", then you are not a covert-ops/recon pilot.

umop 3pisdn, i completely agree with you. Any real covert-ops/recon pilot won't even notice the change. Only the AFKers and capitals are affected, which needed a fix badly anyways.

Can't wait for this patch.

---

Originally by: IHurricane

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Edited by: IHurricane on 28/05/2007 15:09:47

Originally by: Grash Freedom

---

first

still can't understand how an afk cloaker can harm you anyways, he is afk for the love of god

if he is not afk then he is doing his job

---

How the hell do you know he is afk? This nerf is imo some of the better things CCP has done. If the cloeacker is not afk, then this nerf will not touch him.

---

Originally by: Popsikle

---

[
What are you smoking?

AS a Force recon pilot (cloaking level 5 and recon level 5 was almost 3 months of training time btw not to mention Amarr and Minmatar cruiser 5) If my job is to sit at the gate and scout and a single frigate comes in drops some probes I now have to leave. I cant do my job, cant do what my ship was designed to do. I cant sit and wait it out to gather intel on the enemy fleet, because now they know im at the gate they wont jump their fleet in until im gone.

There should be a difference between force recons/covert ops and people who fit a cloak on any old ship just so they can.

I have about 10 months of skill training into making my force recon badassed, and this complete wasts almost a year of skill training.

---

Originally by: Xenon Cypher

---

I don't agree with any kind of nerf to cloaking.

Although to be honest I see how this nerf is even going to affect afk cloakers. No one just sits still whilst cloaked afk, if I go afk whilst cloaked I always move at full speed in an unaligned direction.

That's 500ms in a Covert Opps frigate, or 300ms in a Covert Opps cruiser (more if they're 'nano'd up').

I also still don't see how someone afk hurts you. If they're afk they can't do anything, if they're not afk they're spying on you. How do you know they're afk anyway?

---

Originally by: Malena Panic

---

All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start *flying* their ships again.

Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it!

---

Originally by: bigfatbird

---

Originally by: Malena Panic

---

All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start *flying* their ships again.

Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it!

---

Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner??

---

Originally by: Jayson Lee

---

Originally by: Xenon Cypher

---

I don't agree with any kind of nerf to cloaking.

Although to be honest I see how this nerf is even going to affect afk cloakers. No one just sits still whilst cloaked afk, if I go afk whilst cloaked I always move at full speed in an unaligned direction.

That's 500ms in a Covert Opps frigate, or 300ms in a Covert Opps cruiser (more if they're 'nano'd up').

I also still don't see how someone afk hurts you. If they're afk they can't do anything, if they're not afk they're spying on you. How do you know they're afk anyway?

---

Couldnt two ships scanning you find your location? I mean if you do as you say and move in 1 direction I could scan and warp in to you. Have a friend scan a few seconds later and warp towards you. Once we do that couldnt we draw a line and get a reasonable idea of what directions you are heading in?

---

Originally by: bigfatbird

---

Originally by: Malena Panic

---

All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start *flying* their ships again.

Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it!

---

Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner??

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

---

Originally by: bigfatbird

---

Originally by: Malena Panic

---

All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start *flying* their ships again.

Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it!

---

Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner??

---

i think everyone is being misdirected by the OP. nowhere in any of the quotes is the directional scanner mentioned.

---

Originally by: Cadela Fria

---

Edited by: Cadela Fria on 28/05/2007 15:14:36


This is a petition to stop the cloaking nerf from ever setting foot on the TQ server.
/SIGN IF YOU AGREE.
Be quiet those of you who don't agree, this is a petition, not a discussion, please.
If you absolutely can't contain yourself, be civil about it, and don't flame!

Originally by: CCP Fendahl

---

The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes, so the BS fleet could have its scouts scan for hidden surprises.

---

&

Originally by: Mephysto

---

This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here).

---

Brothers and Sisters of EVE! Many a nerf has bethrothed the universe of EVE, many of which we have all learned to deal with and overcome.
Most of the time we succeded, and have since lived in relative harmony with the changes, HOWEVER, this time they have gone TOO Far!

This new nerf to cloaks that makes it detectable via probes is outragous! My fellow reconship collegues will know precisely what I'm talking about! The way we move and exist in EVE through cloaking, is a lifestyle for many of us, and right from the get-go(sp?) when people complained about AFK cloakers we were confident that such ignorant arguments wouldnt be of any result in the longer run.
I mean the argument itself is flawed - "We can't mine cause theres an AFK cloaker in our system, spying on us" - Well that tells me YOU aren't putting up enough/any protection of your mining op, or you have no confidence in your protection force - Either way you lose.

It also tells me you haven't been creative enough about what you're doing, lure the cloaker, bait him into doing something rash that'll get him killed..and he's really AFK, then whats the problem??? YOU made it difficult for yourself and thats YOUR fault. If you really can't handle the pressure of an enemy being in the same system as you, well, THEN MOVE!!

It is an entirely poor idea altogether, IN MY OPINION, that cloaking has to suffer just because those who still get terrorized by cloaks, haven't been smart enough to figure out a solution - It is infact MORONIC (Sorry about the word, really, but it is) that it is yet again US (the cloakers/pirates) that have to come up with a solution just because some of you...*bites tongue* people... can't think for yourselves.

I'm taking a stand against this NERF, because of all things I have accepted in the past and adapted to - Of all the nerfs I have twisted my brain around to continue like I did, this is a DIRECT assault on my way of playing EVE, and I will not accept it!

(Sign if you agree)

PS. Lets try to keep the "I'm leaving if this goes through" threats down..we're petioning, not threatning

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

---

Originally by: bigfatbird

---

Originally by: Malena Panic

---

All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start *flying* their ships again.

Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it!

---

Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner??

---

i think everyone is being misdirected by the OP. nowhere in any of the quotes is the directional scanner mentioned.

---

Originally by: murder one

---

The devs have *specifically* said "you'll be able to scan ahead for cloaked ships". SCAN. Not probe. This means that you'll know *where* a cloaked ship is, and WHAT TYPE IT IS.

---

Originally by: Xenon Cypher

---

Originally by: Jayson Lee

---

Originally by: Xenon Cypher

---

I don't agree with any kind of nerf to cloaking.

Although to be honest I see how this nerf is even going to affect afk cloakers. No one just sits still whilst cloaked afk, if I go afk whilst cloaked I always move at full speed in an unaligned direction.

That's 500ms in a Covert Opps frigate, or 300ms in a Covert Opps cruiser (more if they're 'nano'd up').

I also still don't see how someone afk hurts you. If they're afk they can't do anything, if they're not afk they're spying on you. How do you know they're afk anyway?

---

Couldnt two ships scanning you find your location? I mean if you do as you say and move in 1 direction I could scan and warp in to you. Have a friend scan a few seconds later and warp towards you. Once we do that couldnt we draw a line and get a reasonable idea of what directions you are heading in?

---

Could be wrong (I haven't probed for a while). But when you warp to a probe contact you don't always come out of warp facing the ship do you?

Sometimes you're above it, sometimes you're below it, to the left, to the right, etc...

You and your friend could both end up coming out of warp 60km from a cloaker on sides of him/her that aren't oposite to each other (above and horisontally left for example) in which case the line drawn would not even have the cloaker on it at all. Besides this when you come out of warp by the time you 2 meet at the same point the cloaker will be 20km from where he used to be anyway.

---

Originally by: CCP Tuxford

---

I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.

---

Originally by: Miki Fin

---

Originally by: Cadela Fria

---

Edited by: Cadela Fria on 28/05/2007 15:14:36


This is a petition to stop the cloaking nerf from ever setting foot on the TQ server.
/SIGN IF YOU AGREE.
Be quiet those of you who don't agree, this is a petition, not a discussion, please.
If you absolutely can't contain yourself, be civil about it, and don't flame!

Originally by: CCP Fendahl

---

The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes, so the BS fleet could have its scouts scan for hidden surprises.

---

&

Originally by: Mephysto

---

This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here).

---

Brothers and Sisters of EVE! Many a nerf has bethrothed the universe of EVE, many of which we have all learned to deal with and overcome.
Most of the time we succeded, and have since lived in relative harmony with the changes, HOWEVER, this time they have gone TOO Far!

This new nerf to cloaks that makes it detectable via probes is outragous! My fellow reconship collegues will know precisely what I'm talking about! The way we move and exist in EVE through cloaking, is a lifestyle for many of us, and right from the get-go(sp?) when people complained about AFK cloakers we were confident that such ignorant arguments wouldnt be of any result in the longer run.
I mean the argument itself is flawed - "We can't mine cause theres an AFK cloaker in our system, spying on us" - Well that tells me YOU aren't putting up enough/any protection of your mining op, or you have no confidence in your protection force - Either way you lose.

It also tells me you haven't been creative enough about what you're doing, lure the cloaker, bait him into doing something rash that'll get him killed..and he's really AFK, then whats the problem??? YOU made it difficult for yourself and thats YOUR fault. If you really can't handle the pressure of an enemy being in the same system as you, well, THEN MOVE!!

It is an entirely poor idea altogether, IN MY OPINION, that cloaking has to suffer just because those who still get terrorized by cloaks, haven't been smart enough to figure out a solution - It is infact MORONIC (Sorry about the word, really, but it is) that it is yet again US (the cloakers/pirates) that have to come up with a solution just because some of you...*bites tongue* people... can't think for yourselves.

I'm taking a stand against this NERF, because of all things I have accepted in the past and adapted to - Of all the nerfs I have twisted my brain around to continue like I did, this is a DIRECT assault on my way of playing EVE, and I will not accept it!

(Sign if you agree)

PS. Lets try to keep the "I'm leaving if this goes through" threats down..we're petioning, not threatning

---

So, you make a post flaming people that complained about cloaks, then say not to flame you?

I don't think the problem is with people cloaked afk, as everyone will agree afk cloakers pose no risk. It's the cloakers that pretend to be afk that are the problem.

---

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

---

um, if the enemy fleet doesn't want to be found so badly, then the fact that you are in local will prevent them from jumping in. whether or not you can be probed is gonna make buggerall difference.


and some of you guys seem to have your own concept of what cloaking should entail. time to change those concepts.

---

Originally by: Jayson Lee

---

Very true, it wont be exact but it does it a determined peron a chance to find a cloaked afk ship. Your point does illustrate just how difficult it will be to find a cloaked ship with an active pilot. Which is why I dont see why so many people are upset with the change.

---

Originally by: Jayson Lee

---

Originally by: Popsikle

---

Edited by: Popsikle on 28/05/2007 16:49:24

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

---

um, if the enemy fleet doesn't want to be found so badly, then the fact that you are in local will prevent them from jumping in. whether or not you can be probed is gonna make buggerall difference.


and some of you guys seem to have your own concept of what cloaking should entail. time to change those concepts.

---

Originally by: Jayson Lee

---

Very true, it wont be exact but it does it a determined peron a chance to find a cloaked afk ship. Your point does illustrate just how difficult it will be to find a cloaked ship with an active pilot. Which is why I dont see why so many people are upset with the change.

---

My concept of recon ships, and covert ops are ships that are to gather recon. How can we gather recon on the size of an emeny fleet, and what ships/pilots there are if we can be probed out in under 30 seconds. What was the point of the ships if now they become useless.

People being able to see you in local does NOT mean they know what kind of ship you fly, and how close you are to them at all. If a scout jumps in, and sees on in local now, they report that, the rest of the enemy fleet jumps in. If a scout jumps in, drops a probe and 30 seconds later says "we got a rapier watching the gate. they know we are coming thru this way" its a completely different scenario and the point of a covert or force recon ship just went down the tubes. Along with a year of skill training, because you want to be able to catch people AFK.

I dont understand why the probes have to pick up covert II's, as only a few ships can fit them anyway.

---

Then tinker with details, not the concept. No ship should be able to avoid dectection forever.

---

Originally by: bigfatbird

---

Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner??

---

Originally by: bigfatbird

---

Uhm cloaked ships being able to be detected by the basic ship scanner is a problem.

---

Quote:

---

Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner??

---

Originally by: Cadela Fria

---

hydraSlav, I specifically asked no flaming, and since you have no idea about what I do and how I do it, you are in no position to say what I am and what I aren't, so kindly take that crap outside.

---

Quote:

---

I have my opinion and I have made a petition, and I ask those who agree to sign it.

---

Originally by: hydraSlav

---

Edited by: hydraSlav on 28/05/2007 15:16:11

Originally by: Big Al

---

Originally by: hydraSlav

---

If an AFK cloaker is so harmless, then why is he there? There is a reason why he is sitting AFK, and that reason is harming the other side. Effortless gameplay needs to go.

---

This is the point isn't it? Local = effortless gameplay.

OH NOES, WE CAN'T CAREBARE EVIL CLOAKER IN SYSTEM!!!111oneoneone

Remove local and maybe scanning FOR (not down) cloakers would be decent gameplay.

---

I agree on removing local, look in my sig

---

Originally by: Popsikle

---

My concept of recon ships, and covert ops are ships that are to gather recon. How can we gather recon on the size of an emeny fleet, and what ships/pilots there are if we can be probed out in under 30 seconds.

---

Quote:

---

If a scout jumps in, and sees on in local now, they report that, the rest of the enemy fleet jumps in. If a scout jumps in, drops a probe and 30 seconds later says "we got a rapier watching the gate. they know we are coming thru this way" its a completely different scenario and the point of a covert or force recon ship just went down the tubes.

---

Originally by: hydraSlav

---

You started a petition, but then anti-nerf people (instead of following your advice and just signing) decided to throw out arguments, arguments i had to retort against. You entered the discussion (something you didn't want, granted), so then i had to retort to your counter post.

---

Originally by: Malena Panic

---

Aha, I see the issue now. Some folks want their one frigate or cruiser to interdict whole fleets of ships by themselves. I actually think that your second scenario is far more interesting for both parties than the first scenario.

---

Originally by: Malena Panic

---

Originally by: bigfatbird

---

Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner??

---

The ship remains INVISIBLE unless it decloaks or someone decloaks it by approaching almost to contact. It's still an enormous tactical advantage.

When cloaked ships show up on the directional scanner, players will be able to estimate the rough location of a cloaked ship within a system and develop active tactics accordingly, instead of simply being paralyzed from lack of information. This is a good thing.

---

Originally by: Stede Bonnet

---

Edited by: Stede Bonnet on 28/05/2007 17:10:00
Edited by: Stede Bonnet on 28/05/2007 17:09:13

Originally by: Jayson Lee

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Originally by: Popsikle

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Edited by: Popsikle on 28/05/2007 16:49:24

Originally by: Peanut Swsh

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um, if the enemy fleet doesn't want to be found so badly, then the fact that you are in local will prevent them from jumping in. whether or not you can be probed is gonna make buggerall difference.


and some of you guys seem to have your own concept of what cloaking should entail. time to change those concepts.

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Originally by: Jayson Lee

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Very true, it wont be exact but it does it a determined peron a chance to find a cloaked afk ship. Your point does illustrate just how difficult it will be to find a cloaked ship with an active pilot. Which is why I dont see why so many people are upset with the change.

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My concept of recon ships, and covert ops are ships that are to gather recon. How can we gather recon on the size of an emeny fleet, and what ships/pilots there are if we can be probed out in under 30 seconds. What was the point of the ships if now they become useless.

People being able to see you in local does NOT mean they know what kind of ship you fly, and how close you are to them at all. If a scout jumps in, and sees on in local now, they report that, the rest of the enemy fleet jumps in. If a scout jumps in, drops a probe and 30 seconds later says "we got a rapier watching the gate. they know we are coming thru this way" its a completely different scenario and the point of a covert or force recon ship just went down the tubes. Along with a year of skill training, because you want to be able to catch people AFK.

I dont understand why the probes have to pick up covert II's, as only a few ships can fit them anyway.

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Then tinker with details, not the concept. No ship should be able to avoid dectection forever.

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Thats like saying a hauler shouldnt be able to haul for ever.

Its the role of the ship, thats what they do.

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Originally by: bigfatbird

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Invisible is not undetectable.

If they pick you up on a shortrange scanner then you know what they gona do?

they will warp to the next station, dock and make a post on the forums about further nerfing cloaks.

active tactics my arse.

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Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

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Originally by: bigfatbird

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Invisible is not undetectable.

If they pick you up on a shortrange scanner then you know what they gona do?

they will warp to the next station, dock and make a post on the forums about further nerfing cloaks.

active tactics my arse.

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We'll do what we (all) do every night, Pinky... come and whine on the forums

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Originally by: Clorthos

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/signed x 5 accounts 3 of which are covops and recon pilots ... if i wanted carebear gamming I of moved to WoW.

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Originally by: hydraSlav

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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hydraSlav, I specifically asked no flaming, and since you have no idea about what I do and how I do it, you are in no position to say what I am and what I aren't, so kindly take that crap outside.

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I don't believe i flamed more than you did in your opening post.

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Originally by: hydraSlav

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Quote:

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I have my opinion and I have made a petition, and I ask those who agree to sign it.

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You started a petition, but then anti-nerf people (instead of following your advice and just signing) decided to throw out arguments, arguments i had to retort against. You entered the discussion (something you didn't want, granted), so then i had to retort to your counter post.

I will respect your intent for the thread and withdraw from this discussion (there are many more threads on the subject). However before i take my leave, i ask you to rephrase your OP, and not generalize myself under your "fellow reconship collegues", cause i am a recon pilot (emphasis on the word "pilot", i.e. someone flying the ship, as opposed to only sitting in it), and i respectfully disagree.

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Originally by: Blue Pixie

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I'll gladly accept a counter for cloaking, as soon as we get a counter for the chat tab. One without the other is just stupid.

I don't want to be invulnerable. I just want a *chance* to be sneaky. This ain't it. FFS, even WoW has a better stealth mechanic than this.

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Originally by: Peanut Swsh

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Originally by: Clorthos

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/signed x 5 accounts 3 of which are covops and recon pilots ... if i wanted carebear gamming I of moved to WoW.

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and ratting in 0.0, with a cloakin raven that safes and cloaks as soon as local move isn't carebear?

it seems like some recon pilots can't handle that fact that in eve sometimes you are the hunter, and sometimes you are the prey. atm some pilots seem to think that because they have trained a certain set of skills, they should be able to have invulnerability mode. don't just go around calling peope carebears because it was the first generic insult you could think of.

hell, we should just have an i-win skill, train it to lvl5 and you win eve k?

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Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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RECONS CAN WARP WHILE CLOAKED

RECONS MOVE QUICKLY WHILE CLOAKED

This will not change anything except: Remove AFK cloakers, and make isk farming ravens/badgers tremble in their boots.

Cloaking capitals, especially motherships and titans are bull****.

This is for the good of eve. They have to probe you AND warp to you AND then decloak you.... the probe will not instantly vaporise your ship.. it just gives the rest of eve a chance.

Those most at risk are the farmers who SS and cloak instantly when hostiles enter system. They have to decloak to change safe spots.
They are slow when cloaked. Therefore when they ss and cloak they are no longer invincible, they can be probed and warped too... the hunters can then deploy drones and start sweeping the area for the farmer.


I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers.

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Originally by: Peanut Swsh

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unsuprisingly you are perfectly happy that currently you are totally undetectable.

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Originally by: Vergil Mathers

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Covops / Stealth bombers should, and hopefully will continue to be invisible.. unless you are really dumb..

HOWEVER.. Carriers / Titans / MS / BS / Dread? / etc... I don't think that these huge ships were ever meant to disappear. That is just dumb..

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Originally by: Grash Freedom

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hahahahhaha this wins the thread :)

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Originally by: Hellspawn01

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As long as it only affects normal and T2 cloaks and not cov ops cloak, fine with me.

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Originally by: MrJordanIOI

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Please do not make this possible or add an appropiate counter - e.g. remove local - when doing so.

IOI

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Originally by: MrJordanIOI

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Please do not make this possible or add an appropiate counter - e.g. remove local - when doing so.

IOI

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Originally by: Anehra

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Or give us -99% cap use on jumping and a crapload of more agility to make it viable to keep jumping around constantly. As that is what we'll need to do - moving, fast, preferbly jumping, all the time. Purely for covert ops and recon ships, ofc, not for the regular cloak.

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Originally by: Zamaajin Riis

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Yet another MMO nerfs stealthing. What a suprise.

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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[

You might aswell not cloak at all, because all a person have to do, is warp to you, and then go forward really fast and you're done for.
The only way to avoid this is if you're constantly moving, aligned to somewhere, in which case again, you might aswell not be cloaked at all.

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Originally by: SiJira

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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[

You might aswell not cloak at all, because all a person have to do, is warp to you, and then go forward really fast and you're done for.
The only way to avoid this is if you're constantly moving, aligned to somewhere, in which case again, you might aswell not be cloaked at all.

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people can not understand this simple fact

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Recon ships can hang around AFK in a system. They can sit there for hours, interdicting the system, without even being at the keyboard. They just have to decloak and shoot at something every few hours.

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Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas

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Tbh if a couple cloaker can interdict an entire system for you or your corp, then you got a bigger problem then a cloak nerf ever can hope to fix.

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.

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Originally by: Bentula

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Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas

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Tbh if a couple cloaker can interdict an entire system for you or your corp, then you got a bigger problem then a cloak nerf ever can hope to fix.

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If you have several cloakers in system you need to keep a force up there to prevent them from doing stuff or clear that system completly, in which case they just move on. This force defending people cant go afk, while the cloakers can. I can make a alt to haress people with a cloaker while i play with my main, while i cant do this to defend against cloakers(you need to pay attention). There is no way of knowing wether a claoker is atm afk or actively hunting people so you always have to be in alert even if he just sits there afk for a few hours.

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Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

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What's wrong with having to be alert? All you need is for some of your ratters to fit scrams, and to form a gang. If someone is attacked the entire gang needs to come. If people won't leave their carebearing to help someone in trouble then the alliance deserves to lose people and be demoralized.

And... the best ships to hunt probers with will be cloakers ofc Covops gangs recon, drops a probe, warps gang to result and cancels the warp. waits while the covops sweeps again. Now you have two results and you can bump'n'gank the other cloaker.

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Originally by: Bentula

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Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst

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What's wrong with having to be alert? All you need is for some of your ratters to fit scrams, and to form a gang. If someone is attacked the entire gang needs to come. If people won't leave their carebearing to help someone in trouble then the alliance deserves to lose people and be demoralized.

And... the best ships to hunt probers with will be cloakers ofc Covops gangs recon, drops a probe, warps gang to result and cancels the warp. waits while the covops sweeps again. Now you have two results and you can bump'n'gank the other cloaker.

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It simply doesnt work, they wont engage you when there are 5 friendlies cruising the belts they will engage you when they have even numbers and you have a triple BS spawn on you.

What i object too is not that you have to be alert living in 0.0, i object to having to be battle ready for hours and be in a pvp setup while trying to earn some bucks while the cloaker is sitting in his living room reading a book and eating pizza or running missions in empire on his carebear alt.

For every hostile recon afk in your space you need to have a active player discouraging attacks. That is not right, and gets abused at the moment. You try having 5-6 cloakers camping as many systems in your constellation and you watch how people get really angry because there is nothing they can do against it if the cloaker is careful and obviously not botherd to do nothing for many hours.

Not to mention that risk vs reward for cloak fitted geddons f.e. is hardly ok at the moment. They do nothing but rat in quiet systems and cloak assoon as anyone enters the system. While carebears in a alliance who fights for their space everyday need to be "alert" because their pvpers cant remove hostiles from a system.

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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we are screwed.

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Originally by: Bentula

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Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas

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Tbh if a couple cloaker can interdict an entire system for you or your corp, then you got a bigger problem then a cloak nerf ever can hope to fix.

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Stuff

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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OMGHI2U2 TAREEN! <3

Oh and Tareen..sign now, so we won't have to find out.
*jedi mindtrick* The cloak is fine the way it is...you will sign now!

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Originally by: Tareen Kashaar

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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OMGHI2U2 TAREEN! <3

Oh and Tareen..sign now, so we won't have to find out.
*jedi mindtrick* The cloak is fine the way it is...you will sign now!

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*zombie look*
...
/signed
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Are you sure using your Jedi powers is politically correct behaviour? Not like you'd care, but... election fraud zomg. Can I rent you for when I run for galactic emperor?

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Originally by: Tareen Kashaar

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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OMGHI2U2 TAREEN! <3

Oh and Tareen..sign now, so we won't have to find out.
*jedi mindtrick* The cloak is fine the way it is...you will sign now!

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*zombie look*
...
/signed
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Are you sure using your Jedi powers is politically correct behaviour? Not like you'd care, but... election fraud zomg. Can I rent you for when I run for galactic emperor?

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I'll arrange for your fraudlent..erhh I mean, legitimate, superior and quite convincing imperical overtake of the galaxy, Immediately! ...for only 250 mil this service can be yours, AND if you act now, you get a free lightsaber!

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Originally by: Bentula

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You want guerillia warfare or are scouting for your fleet? This doesnt affect you, nobody will bother trying to scan someone down who is actually at his keyboard and paying attention. They will only try to scan you down if they assume your sitting in a safespot and dont move.

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Originally by: Bentula

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What i object too is not that you have to be alert living in 0.0, i object to having to be battle ready for hours and be in a pvp setup while trying to earn some bucks

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Originally by: ReePeR McAllem

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Yeah I think they should be nerfed, but the ships that use them for a reason i.e covert-ops and recons that use t2 covert cloak should definately NOT get nerfed

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Originally by: Steel Tigeress

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How is this a nerf exactly?

It was stated when cloking was FIRST implemented that cloakers would be probable.

It was a broken mechanic that let us have it so easy for so long.

/not-signed hurray for more tactics

Also point me to the definition that says Covert=undetectable. Covert=Hidden....hidden things can be found.

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Originally by: Mikal Drey

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its generally THIS module that gets abused by the afk'ers.

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Originally by: Naniki

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Originally by: Steel Tigeress

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How is this a nerf exactly?

It was stated when cloking was FIRST implemented that cloakers would be probable.

It was a broken mechanic that let us have it so easy for so long.

/not-signed hurray for more tactics

Also point me to the definition that says Covert=undetectable. Covert=Hidden....hidden things can be found.

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Stated? were do you see a statement like that ? hmm and go read the definition for cloaking and cloaking devices and covert all say undetectable in any way shape or form. don't respond if you don't know anything about this issue.
Odviously don't know what a dictionary is

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Originally by: Blue Pixie

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Lemme get this straight. If I fly into your system in my Force Recon, you won't try to probe me out if you think I'm at the keyboard... AND you'll provide me with soft targets to blow up so I can get my guerillia warfare on?

Why am I finding this hard to believe?

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Originally by: Blue Pixie

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This is what you object to? The fear of uncertainty? Having to be battle ready and/or fitted for PvP? While trying to earn iskies? In null-sec? The lowest security-rated, highest rewarding space in all of EVE?

And you call someone running missions in Empire a carebear?

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