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PETITION: Stop the Cloak Nerf!!

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Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:36:00 - [31] As long as it only affects normal and T2 cloaks and not cov ops cloak, fine with me. Ship lovers click here
bigfatbird New Justice	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:38:00 - [32] Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: umop 3pisdn I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers. It'll destroy cloaking. Cadela, if this little change is gonna "destroy cloaking", then you are not a covert-ops/recon pilot. umop 3pisdn, i completely agree with you. Any real covert-ops/recon pilot won't even notice the change. Only the AFKers and capitals are affected, which needed a fix badly anyways. Can't wait for this patch. Uhm cloaked ships being able to be detected by the basic ship scanner is a problem. You just can deactivate the cloak now cause they know that you are coming anyway.
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Peanut Swsh they obviously weren't moving if you were able to probe them and catch them. takes like 5 seconds for a cruiser sized ship to align and warp. once you get a hit on probes, you aren't gonna be able to align, warp, land on them, lock and scram before they are long gone. and care to explain how to catch people warping between safes... afaik this isn't possible in eve. thou you do get some noobs who reuse safespots. Almost everyone reuses safespots. If you're warping between safes, and making new safes in-between, before long your safes will be on top of each other unless you warp to a celestial to make a new one. And it takes 5 seconds to come out of warp, at least, then five seconds at least to re-enter warp, during all of which time you are probeable. If you're really organised and on the ball you could figure along which alignments someone's safes were, and set up a bubble for them Be honest. Everyone will just log off, and that's less fun, not more.
Cadela Fria Amarr The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:42:00 - [34] Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: umop 3pisdn I cant wait for this patch. It wont hurt real coverts, just the farmers. It'll destroy cloaking. Cadela, if this little change is gonna "destroy cloaking", then you are not a covert-ops/recon pilot. umop 3pisdn, i completely agree with you. Any real covert-ops/recon pilot won't even notice the change. Only the AFKers and capitals are affected, which needed a fix badly anyways. Can't wait for this patch. hydraSlav, I specifically asked no flaming, and since you have no idea about what I do and how I do it, you are in no position to say what I am and what I aren't, so kindly take that crap outside. I have my opinion and I have made a petition, and I ask those who agree to sign it. If you don't agree, then make your own petition against it, or don't do anything and just believe that you'll get the nerf regardless of what I do or say. Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:50:00 - [35] in the present state, they cloak, making it pointless to look for them. possibly if this 'nerf' (not a nerf imo) gets implemented, then they might log off, it really makes no difference either way does it. the only ship i can see this really effecting in this present state, is the stealth bomber. which should be given the ability to warp cloaked when fitted with a cov-ops cloaking device, if cloaked ships become probeable. and i will restate that cloaked ships being probe-able is great imo. but cloaked ships should not show up on the directional scanner.
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:56:00 - [36] I dont want to see any changes made, but i expect that it will make little difference to covert-ops, stealth bombers, and recons. Recruiting Terrorists
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:59:00 - [37] Originally by: IHurricane Edited by: IHurricane on 28/05/2007 15:09:47 Originally by: Grash Freedom first still can't understand how an afk cloaker can harm you anyways, he is afk for the love of god if he is not afk then he is doing his job How the hell do you know he is afk? This nerf is imo some of the better things CCP has done. If the cloeacker is not afk, then this nerf will not touch him. What are you smoking? AS a Force recon pilot (cloaking level 5 and recon level 5 was almost 3 months of training time btw not to mention Amarr and Minmatar cruiser 5) If my job is to sit at the gate and scout and a single frigate comes in drops some probes I now have to leave. I cant do my job, cant do what my ship was designed to do. I cant sit and wait it out to gather intel on the enemy fleet, because now they know im at the gate they wont jump their fleet in until im gone. There should be a difference between force recons/covert ops and people who fit a cloak on any old ship just so they can. I have about 10 months of skill training into making my force recon badassed, and this complete wasts almost a year of skill training. __________________________________________
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:01:00 - [38] /Signed The whole point of a cloaking device is to hide the ship so that it CANNOT be found. Making cloaked ships probable defeats the whole concept of what a cloaking device is intended to do and renders them pointless and worthless. But as always the developers bow down to the whiners and get out the nerf bat to wield the quickest and easiest solution. A far better solution would be to place a time limit on how long a ship can remain cloaked and hidden. In any good scifi series a cloaking device uses a huge amount of power an cannot be maintained indefinately. Make it so cloaks drain your ships powergrid (not capacitor) and deactivate after a set period of use, you can then not recloak untill your powergrid has recharged. this will provide a window in which afk cloakers can be caught and dealt with, without nerfing cloaks into uselessness. those not afk and paying attention can move from ss to ss, moon to moon to avoid being caught during the cloaks downtime. The panned nerf to cloaking goes to the oposite extreme of turning cloaked ships from invulnerable to a pointless waste of a high slot as they no longer do the job they are designed to do.
Broken Star Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:03:00 - [39] ffs, theres 24 pages of ppl telling CCP not to nerf cloaks and they go and do it anyway. Signed.
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:07:00 - [40] Originally by: Popsikle [ What are you smoking? AS a Force recon pilot (cloaking level 5 and recon level 5 was almost 3 months of training time btw not to mention Amarr and Minmatar cruiser 5) If my job is to sit at the gate and scout and a single frigate comes in drops some probes I now have to leave. I cant do my job, cant do what my ship was designed to do. I cant sit and wait it out to gather intel on the enemy fleet, because now they know im at the gate they wont jump their fleet in until im gone. There should be a difference between force recons/covert ops and people who fit a cloak on any old ship just so they can. I have about 10 months of skill training into making my force recon badassed, and this complete wasts almost a year of skill training. um, if the enemy fleet doesn't want to be found so badly, then the fact that you are in local will prevent them from jumping in. whether or not you can be probed is gonna make buggerall difference. and some of you guys seem to have your own concept of what cloaking should entail. time to change those concepts.
Shinji Seto Minmatar Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:08:00 - [41] /signed CCP has been swinging the nerf bat like a kid in a pinata factory as of late. It would make more interesting gameplay if CCP introduced new mods to counter certain set ups instead of nerfing the game to appease forum whiners who make up a small % of the player base. "Outlaw" This was the name given to those who roam the universe with only his freedom as his guide.
Malena Panic Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:11:00 - [42] All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start flying their ships again. Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it!
Speed Devil Caldari Mean Machines	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:14:00 - [43] /signed or is it a stealthnerf to highsec suicide pirates?
Xenon Cypher	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:17:00 - [44] Edited by: Xenon Cypher on 28/05/2007 16:19:26 I don't agree with any kind of nerf to cloaking. Although to be honest I see how this nerf is even going to affect afk cloakers. No one just sits still whilst cloaked afk, if I go afk whilst cloaked I always move at full speed in an unaligned direction. That's 500ms in a Covert Opps frigate, or 300ms in a Covert Opps cruiser (more if they're 'nano'd up'). I also still don't see how someone afk hurts you. If they're afk they can't do anything, if they're not afk they're spying on you. How do you know they're afk anyway? [EDIT] Oh, and cloaked ships appearing on normal scanner? Hard not to be dissapointed really. Wonder how long ago CCp changed its ethos.
Jayson Lee Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Xenon Cypher I don't agree with any kind of nerf to cloaking. Although to be honest I see how this nerf is even going to affect afk cloakers. No one just sits still whilst cloaked afk, if I go afk whilst cloaked I always move at full speed in an unaligned direction. That's 500ms in a Covert Opps frigate, or 300ms in a Covert Opps cruiser (more if they're 'nano'd up'). I also still don't see how someone afk hurts you. If they're afk they can't do anything, if they're not afk they're spying on you. How do you know they're afk anyway? Couldnt two ships scanning you find your location? I mean if you do as you say and move in 1 direction I could scan and warp in to you. Have a friend scan a few seconds later and warp towards you. Once we do that couldnt we draw a line and get a reasonable idea of what directions you are heading in?
bigfatbird New Justice	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:20:00 - [46] Originally by: Malena Panic All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start flying their ships again. Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it! Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner??
Mifter Hogdido Amarr The 0ri	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:20:00 - [47] /SIGNED
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:23:00 - [48] Edited by: Savesti Kyrsst on 28/05/2007 16:21:40 Originally by: bigfatbird Originally by: Malena Panic All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start flying their ships again. Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it! Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner?? Well I can't see it if I close both my eyes, a protection which will help me about as much as cloaking after the patch.
Xenon Cypher	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:24:00 - [49] Originally by: Jayson Lee Originally by: Xenon Cypher I don't agree with any kind of nerf to cloaking. Although to be honest I see how this nerf is even going to affect afk cloakers. No one just sits still whilst cloaked afk, if I go afk whilst cloaked I always move at full speed in an unaligned direction. That's 500ms in a Covert Opps frigate, or 300ms in a Covert Opps cruiser (more if they're 'nano'd up'). I also still don't see how someone afk hurts you. If they're afk they can't do anything, if they're not afk they're spying on you. How do you know they're afk anyway? Couldnt two ships scanning you find your location? I mean if you do as you say and move in 1 direction I could scan and warp in to you. Have a friend scan a few seconds later and warp towards you. Once we do that couldnt we draw a line and get a reasonable idea of what directions you are heading in? Could be wrong (I haven't probed for a while). But when you warp to a probe contact you don't always come out of warp facing the ship do you? Sometimes you're above it, sometimes you're below it, to the left, to the right, etc... You and your friend could both end up coming out of warp 60km from a cloaker on sides of him/her that aren't oposite to each other (above and horisontally left for example) in which case the line drawn would not even have the cloaker on it at all. Besides this when you come out of warp by the time you 2 meet at the same point the cloaker will be 20km from where he used to be anyway.
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:25:00 - [50] Originally by: bigfatbird Originally by: Malena Panic All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start flying their ships again. Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it! Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner?? i think everyone is being misdirected by the OP. nowhere in any of the quotes is the directional scanner mentioned.
Cadela Fria Amarr The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:27:00 - [51] Originally by: Peanut Swsh Originally by: bigfatbird Originally by: Malena Panic All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start flying their ships again. Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it! Uhm how the ** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner?? i think everyone is being misdirected by the OP. nowhere in any of the quotes is the directional scanner mentioned. Misdirected? I have never implied nor said that the directional scanner can find you, I've all the time said we're talking about probes. If people can't read, thats not my fault Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right**
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 28/05/2007 15:14:36 This is a petition to stop the cloaking nerf from ever setting foot on the TQ server. /SIGN IF YOU AGREE. Be quiet those of you who don't agree, this is a petition, not a discussion, please. If you absolutely can't contain yourself, be civil about it, and don't flame! Originally by: CCP Fendahl The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes, so the BS fleet could have its scouts scan for hidden surprises. & Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here). Brothers and Sisters of EVE! Many a nerf has bethrothed the universe of EVE, many of which we have all learned to deal with and overcome. Most of the time we succeded, and have since lived in relative harmony with the changes, HOWEVER, this time they have gone TOO Far! This new nerf to cloaks that makes it detectable via probes is outragous! My fellow reconship collegues will know precisely what I'm talking about! The way we move and exist in EVE through cloaking, is a lifestyle for many of us, and right from the get-go(sp?) when people complained about AFK cloakers we were confident that such ignorant arguments wouldnt be of any result in the longer run. I mean the argument itself is flawed - "We can't mine cause theres an AFK cloaker in our system, spying on us" - Well that tells me YOU aren't putting up enough/any protection of your mining op, or you have no confidence in your protection force - Either way you lose. It also tells me you haven't been creative enough about what you're doing, lure the cloaker, bait him into doing something rash that'll get him killed..and he's really AFK, then whats the problem??? YOU made it difficult for yourself and thats YOUR fault. If you really can't handle the pressure of an enemy being in the same system as you, well, THEN MOVE!! It is an entirely poor idea altogether, IN MY OPINION, that cloaking has to suffer just because those who still get terrorized by cloaks, haven't been smart enough to figure out a solution - It is infact MORONIC (Sorry about the word, really, but it is) that it is yet again US (the cloakers/pirates) that have to come up with a solution just because some of you...bites tongue people... can't think for yourselves. I'm taking a stand against this NERF, because of all things I have accepted in the past and adapted to - Of all the nerfs I have twisted my brain around to continue like I did, this is a DIRECT assault on my way of playing EVE, and I will not accept it! (Sign if you agree) PS. Lets try to keep the "I'm leaving if this goes through" threats down..we're petioning, not threatning So, you make a post flaming people that complained about cloaks, then say not to flame you? I don't think the problem is with people cloaked afk, as everyone will agree afk cloakers pose no risk. It's the cloakers that pretend to be afk that are the problem. Your Signature is unsuitable for the forums. Mail us at [email protected] if you require further information - Valorem
bigfatbird New Justice	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:33:00 - [53] Edited by: bigfatbird on 28/05/2007 16:34:01 Edited by: bigfatbird on 28/05/2007 16:33:31 Originally by: Peanut Swsh Originally by: bigfatbird Originally by: Malena Panic All this panic and commotion tells me that CCP are on to something. :) Here's one highly specialized recon pilot who's thrilled to see these changes - maybe folks will have to start flying their ships again. Covops, SB and Recons remain tactically undetectable, while a whole new category of intelligence now becomes available to those who want it and can take the time to seek it out. I love it! Uhm how the ** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner?? i think everyone is being misdirected by the OP. nowhere in any of the quotes is the directional scanner mentioned. No it wasnt the OP of this thread but Murder One who said that: Originally by:** murder one The devs have specifically said "you'll be able to scan ahead for cloaked ships". SCAN. Not probe. This means that you'll know where a cloaked ship is, and WHAT TYPE IT IS. Linkage
Jayson Lee Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:33:00 - [54] Originally by: Xenon Cypher Originally by: Jayson Lee Originally by: Xenon Cypher I don't agree with any kind of nerf to cloaking. Although to be honest I see how this nerf is even going to affect afk cloakers. No one just sits still whilst cloaked afk, if I go afk whilst cloaked I always move at full speed in an unaligned direction. That's 500ms in a Covert Opps frigate, or 300ms in a Covert Opps cruiser (more if they're 'nano'd up'). I also still don't see how someone afk hurts you. If they're afk they can't do anything, if they're not afk they're spying on you. How do you know they're afk anyway? Couldnt two ships scanning you find your location? I mean if you do as you say and move in 1 direction I could scan and warp in to you. Have a friend scan a few seconds later and warp towards you. Once we do that couldnt we draw a line and get a reasonable idea of what directions you are heading in? Could be wrong (I haven't probed for a while). But when you warp to a probe contact you don't always come out of warp facing the ship do you? Sometimes you're above it, sometimes you're below it, to the left, to the right, etc... You and your friend could both end up coming out of warp 60km from a cloaker on sides of him/her that aren't oposite to each other (above and horisontally left for example) in which case the line drawn would not even have the cloaker on it at all. Besides this when you come out of warp by the time you 2 meet at the same point the cloaker will be 20km from where he used to be anyway. Very true, it wont be exact but it does it a determined peron a chance to find a cloaked afk ship. Your point does illustrate just how difficult it will be to find a cloaked ship with an active pilot. Which is why I dont see why so many people are upset with the change.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:42:00 - [55] /signed assuming it applies to covert ops. If it only affects BS and the like who fit cloaks to SS and cloak when hostiles enter system then I fully support the nerf, but Recons and Cov-Ops must remain un-probable. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:46:00 - [56] /SIGNED SB don't need a nerf. I've yet to see anything that indicates they won't be. ------------------- Say What?
Cadela Fria Amarr The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:49:00 - [57] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 28/05/2007 16:48:57 Originally by: Miki Fin Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 28/05/2007 15:14:36 This is a petition to stop the cloaking nerf from ever setting foot on the TQ server. /SIGN IF YOU AGREE. Be quiet those of you who don't agree, this is a petition, not a discussion, please. If you absolutely can't contain yourself, be civil about it, and don't flame! Originally by: CCP Fendahl The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes, so the BS fleet could have its scouts scan for hidden surprises. & Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here). Brothers and Sisters of EVE! Many a nerf has bethrothed the universe of EVE, many of which we have all learned to deal with and overcome. Most of the time we succeded, and have since lived in relative harmony with the changes, HOWEVER, this time they have gone TOO Far! This new nerf to cloaks that makes it detectable via probes is outragous! My fellow reconship collegues will know precisely what I'm talking about! The way we move and exist in EVE through cloaking, is a lifestyle for many of us, and right from the get-go(sp?) when people complained about AFK cloakers we were confident that such ignorant arguments wouldnt be of any result in the longer run. I mean the argument itself is flawed - "We can't mine cause theres an AFK cloaker in our system, spying on us" - Well that tells me YOU aren't putting up enough/any protection of your mining op, or you have no confidence in your protection force - Either way you lose. It also tells me you haven't been creative enough about what you're doing, lure the cloaker, bait him into doing something rash that'll get him killed..and he's really AFK, then whats the problem??? YOU made it difficult for yourself and thats YOUR fault. If you really can't handle the pressure of an enemy being in the same system as you, well, THEN MOVE!! It is an entirely poor idea altogether, IN MY OPINION, that cloaking has to suffer just because those who still get terrorized by cloaks, haven't been smart enough to figure out a solution - It is infact MORONIC (Sorry about the word, really, but it is) that it is yet again US (the cloakers/pirates) that have to come up with a solution just because some of you...bites tongue people... can't think for yourselves. I'm taking a stand against this NERF, because of all things I have accepted in the past and adapted to - Of all the nerfs I have twisted my brain around to continue like I did, this is a DIRECT assault on my way of playing EVE, and I will not accept it! (Sign if you agree) PS. Lets try to keep the "I'm leaving if this goes through" threats down..we're petioning, not threatning So, you make a post flaming people that complained about cloaks, then say not to flame you? I don't think the problem is with people cloaked afk, as everyone will agree afk cloakers pose no risk. It's the cloakers that pretend to be afk that are the problem. I'm not flaming..flaming means I'm calling them names or directly bashing them. I'm arguing against their reasoning with my own reasoning and saying they have a faulty approach to their perception of such an incident. Flaming them would be: YOU SUXOR AT EVE NOOBS, CLOAKS REWL J00!! (not necessarily done in leetspeak, but you get the idea) Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:50:00 - [58] Edited by: Popsikle on 28/05/2007 16:49:24 Originally by: Peanut Swsh um, if the enemy fleet doesn't want to be found so badly, then the fact that you are in local will prevent them from jumping in. whether or not you can be probed is gonna make buggerall difference. and some of you guys seem to have your own concept of what cloaking should entail. time to change those concepts. Originally by: Jayson Lee Very true, it wont be exact but it does it a determined peron a chance to find a cloaked afk ship. Your point does illustrate just how difficult it will be to find a cloaked ship with an active pilot. Which is why I dont see why so many people are upset with the change. My concept of recon ships, and covert ops are ships that are to gather recon. How can we gather recon on the size of an emeny fleet, and what ships/pilots there are if we can be probed out in under 30 seconds. What was the point of the ships if now they become useless. People being able to see you in local does NOT mean they know what kind of ship you fly, and how close you are to them at all. If a scout jumps in, and sees on in local now, they report that, the rest of the enemy fleet jumps in. If a scout jumps in, drops a probe and 30 seconds later says "we got a rapier watching the gate. they know we are coming thru this way" its a completely different scenario and the point of a covert or force recon ship just went down the tubes. Along with a year of skill training, because you want to be able to catch people AFK. I dont understand why the probes have to pick up covert II's, as only a few ships can fit them anyway. __________________________________________
Stede Bonnet Minmatar Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:10:00 - [59] Edited by: Stede Bonnet on 28/05/2007 17:10:00 Edited by: Stede Bonnet on 28/05/2007 17:09:13 Originally by: Jayson Lee Originally by: Popsikle Edited by: Popsikle on 28/05/2007 16:49:24 Originally by: Peanut Swsh um, if the enemy fleet doesn't want to be found so badly, then the fact that you are in local will prevent them from jumping in. whether or not you can be probed is gonna make buggerall difference. and some of you guys seem to have your own concept of what cloaking should entail. time to change those concepts. Originally by: Jayson Lee Very true, it wont be exact but it does it a determined peron a chance to find a cloaked afk ship. Your point does illustrate just how difficult it will be to find a cloaked ship with an active pilot. Which is why I dont see why so many people are upset with the change. My concept of recon ships, and covert ops are ships that are to gather recon. How can we gather recon on the size of an emeny fleet, and what ships/pilots there are if we can be probed out in under 30 seconds. What was the point of the ships if now they become useless. People being able to see you in local does NOT mean they know what kind of ship you fly, and how close you are to them at all. If a scout jumps in, and sees on in local now, they report that, the rest of the enemy fleet jumps in. If a scout jumps in, drops a probe and 30 seconds later says "we got a rapier watching the gate. they know we are coming thru this way" its a completely different scenario and the point of a covert or force recon ship just went down the tubes. Along with a year of skill training, because you want to be able to catch people AFK. I dont understand why the probes have to pick up covert II's, as only a few ships can fit them anyway. Then tinker with details, not the concept. No ship should be able to avoid dectection forever. Thats like saying a hauler shouldnt be able to haul for ever. Its the role of the ship, thats what they do. _______________________________________________ Da time be now, Rise up me enslaved brethren. Rise up and fight, Ye darks time is numbered. SEEEEYYYLLLLAAAAAA!
Malena Panic Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:12:00 - [60] Originally by: bigfatbird Uhm how the **** is your recon "undetectable" if you even show up on the freaking directional scanner?? The ship remains INVISIBLE unless it decloaks or someone decloaks it by approaching almost to contact. It's still an enormous tactical advantage. When cloaked ships show up on the directional scanner, players will be able to estimate the rough location of a cloaked ship within a system and develop active tactics accordingly, instead of simply being paralyzed from lack of information. This is a good thing.

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