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Dimagus
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.06.23 11:53:00 -
[31]
^^^ This is the most obvious attempt at disgruntled flamebait that I've seen in a long time. I would suggest keeping your life and personal world to yourself, and attempting to force your own personal beliefs on everyone else is not any bit constructive. Maybe going with a little less sky-is-falling doomsday preaching, then dropping the irrelevant other game bashing, personal insults, and holier than thou attitude would be a start.
We're discussing possible improvements to the skill training UI for players. We're not starting a witch hunt and proclaiming "FARMERS EVIL!" at every suggested change that comes by.
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damo atso
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Posted - 2007.06.23 17:18:00 -
[32]
i just alt tab'd to make a topic on this so nice to see somone else had the same idea SIGNED...................
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Crimm TrahmPeur
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Posted - 2007.06.23 17:43:00 -
[33]
As far as real life commitments, I think its quite reasonable to expect everyone to change their skills over to a longer or shorter skill depending on the next time they will be available to sit down at their computer. I tend to plan and organize most things that I do in my life, so I think its only right that EVE skill changeovers should be planned as well. This isn't to say that EVE skill changeovers are as important as real life events, but that they can easily be scheduled in the same way. I like the current system and I am not dying for a new queue system, but if one were to be put into place, I have a proposal of my own.
That said, I would be in favor of a 1 skill queue that could be activated upon the last hour of the current skill's completion. I believe that a 1 skill queue could save that second or minute between the time it takes to right click and start a new skill. Lost training time due to lag and other aspects tends to add up.
Basically, I don't think that special accomidations should be made for people who can't plan their skill finishing times around their real life committments. My proposal would be a 1 skill queue system that could be activated in the last hour of a current skill's completion. That way, you never have to perform the actual changeover, and you can keep those valuable seconds/minutes of waiting for the moment a skill completes. Also, you wouldnt have to wait in station for a skill to finish to switch it over. This method would prevent against character farmers, because they would still need to log on just as much with only an expanded 1 hour window. I think this is the method that would allow for the most appropriate skill queuing system that wouldnt be exploited.
These are just my thoughts on the issue. And to address the "deployment" point made by a previous poster -- If you really want to train skills and pay for your eve account for 9-12 months while away from your computer instead of suspending your account, you should just hire someone to make the appropriate changeovers. A 9-12 month queue would completley annihalate gameplay via character farmers, and though your intentions are honest, the ammount of character farmers and decreased interest in gameplay would outweigh the amount of people in your particular situation. If a skill queue system of this length were implemented, I myself would probably leave the eve universe. That's my two cents.
--Crimm |
Spider Iarus
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Posted - 2007.06.24 11:42:00 -
[34]
Well, there's the thing MOST people can agree on.
1 skill queue = not exploitable, not bad. Several skill queue = welcome to CharFarm Online.
I'm not asking for a long-term queue. I'm asking for the ability to say 'you know, I just got Battleship 1 trained and I'd like to have three tomorrow so that I can play when I get home from work, so I'll queue it and be good to go' rather than '****. 4 hours to two...that's what, 2am? Nah, better do half of Heavy Drones to 3, switch to it tomorrow, and end up using it three days later.'
The current system makes things EASIER, not harder, on character farmers. Unlike the rest of us playing EVE is their job. They are on 24/7/365. That's an advantage I won't have because, ya know, I'm one guy rather than twenty. They can have a 100% optimal schedule, the rest of us have to work around real life.
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Rosur
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.24 20:33:00 -
[35]
How about when the skill finshes it starts tranning the next level of the skill u where tranning unless it was a lvl 5 skill where it won't train anything else. Before it starts tranning the next level it will check to see if ure account is paied for. This will stop people just tranning big level 5 skills like BS 5 and then switching to another big skill.
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Dentad
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.06.29 06:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Blagozahath Skill queue has nothing to do with lasiness, ppl sometimes just don't have time or the possibility to log on and switch skillz... some have their jobs so it's impossible to switch skills when u are at work, isn't it? 1 skill in queue would be just fine,...
QFT
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Eleana Gyrian
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Posted - 2007.06.29 07:47:00 -
[37]
+1 with limited queueing system, let's say one skill queue as stated before.
As far as I'm concerned, I can connect on average 2 hours in the evening, which makes it quite difficult for me to set up properly skills. I have so many ongoing but unfinished skills because of that, it almost becomes funny... As for connecting during the day, tried that. corp firewall didn't like!
I don't think it's laziness. Not having a limited skill queue on the contrary is frustration.
As an alternative, I'd like the idea of having the possibility to change skills via eve website. It would allow more flexibility to manage one's char...
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Viral Effect
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Posted - 2007.06.29 11:30:00 -
[38]
A skill training que would be a good idea.
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Ed Anger
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Posted - 2007.06.29 14:19:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Ed Anger on 29/06/2007 14:19:52 Edited by: Ed Anger on 29/06/2007 14:18:00 i'm facinated that people's biggest worry about a skill queue is farmers. check out the article in the nytimes on gold farmers, in china they have people on 24-hour shifts playing characters. i'm sure they're not missing their skill transitions. it's only the more casual players that get screwed, by being unable to micro their skill advancement (some of us have jobs and RL). yes to a queue.
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Dimagus
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.06.29 14:37:00 -
[40]
Personally I'd prefer something simple, like right clicking on a skill and selecting "Queue For Training" with a simple tagline at the top "Next Skill to be Trained: Cybernetics V"
They can add in another new little book icon for the queued skill, and we'll still squint to see the difference :D But after a skill completion, the queued skill starts training, queue resets to None, and we have to log in to queue the next skill when it's convenient.
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Granmethedon III
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.29 14:49:00 -
[41]
I have to say, I like the way it is. Not because I'm able to get on all the time either - I rarely get on at weekends, so it's long skill time, messes up my schedule etc and I've lost training time beforehand and it ****ed me right off; but that's down to me, not the game. Not becaused of any reason to do with character farmers and such either - I couldn't give a monkeys either way on that topic; I personally think it's a bit sad but, hey ho.
The bottom line to me, is that it's a game, and in order to progress in the game you gotta play it. One of the ways the game is played is by having to manually change the skills and so becomes part of the game's features; like it or lump it you have to play by it's rules.
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Dsnakes
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Posted - 2007.06.29 15:14:00 -
[42]
/Signed 3-5hours skill are a pain, and much more for "new" players
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Sneeze100
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Posted - 2007.06.29 16:46:00 -
[43]
Devs please read
I think That a system of programing skills would be good reasons being
1. you have a fairly stong forces presents playing eve 2. we go away for months at a time if your wife will not do it you are stuck 3. we also pay subscription as well so why should we fall behind just cuz our job conflicts
i hope you will take this into consideration it is not all out of lazyness of changing skills but a need to be able to do em when away on deployment thanks for your time
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Archo X
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.29 18:20:00 -
[44]
No.
A queue is bad. Someone tried to relate the training queue to POS fuel. Well if my POS runs out of fuel it does not roll over to the corp hanger array to get fuel. I need to refuel it. So instead of waiting for DED mails I keep a note of when the POS was fueled and when it needs more I head back to fuel it.
I treat skills the same way. Right now I have 4 accounts I am running. With the help of Eve-Mon I can keep an eye on when skills are ending. If one ends when I'm asleep, at work, in school, during DT, or any other time I can't log in then I switch to the next one. When I am able to be online I set short skills or ones that only have a little time left. If I have a skill I really, really want to get done, but it ends two hours before I get home from work then I need to decide if losing 2 hours training time is worth getting the skill.
I agree that the current system sucks for n00bs, but once you train a rank 5+ skill to level 5 you realize that a couple missed hours aren't the end of the world. I have about 36m SPs and I have probably missed a weeks worth of training since I started Eve. That adds up to about 294,000 SPs, not even 1% of my total.
In closing, I think people need to accept that a skill queue is not #1 on CCPs to do list. Hopefully it's not in their top 50 (more copy slots in mobile labs and new drone UI should be though). So schedule your skills, put reminders on your calendar if need be, and decide what's more important, a full night's sleep or swapping a skill. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Do not discuss moderation in your signature - Kreul Intentions
Double nerf |
Jalenar Frost
CryoCycle
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Posted - 2007.06.29 21:07:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Jalenar Frost on 29/06/2007 21:11:41 Edited by: Jalenar Frost on 29/06/2007 21:07:08
Originally by: Sneeze100 Devs please read
I think That a system of programing skills would be good reasons being
1. you have a fairly stong forces presents playing eve 2. we go away for months at a time if your wife will not do it you are stuck 3. we also pay subscription as well so why should we fall behind just cuz our job conflicts
i hope you will take this into consideration it is not all out of lazyness of changing skills but a need to be able to do em when away on deployment thanks for your time
Here it is. Point number 3 the most. A sense of entitlement. This is like going into WoW and saying "I can't play for a month, but if I was here, I would have my level 1 at level 70, it's not fair that you punish me because I'm not here to do the work myself".
In the case of eve, the 'work' is logging in and changing the skill instead of hours of grinding.
Be happy that eve is set up the way it is and you can train while not playing. But just because you can, does NOT mean you are entitled to progress at the same rate as all other players. If you can log in and change the skills, voila, you progress. If not, sorry RL or down time got in the way, but it's not CCP's issue any more than that level 1 character not getting to 70 is Blizzard's issue.
Of course, It's all about me. |
Dimagus
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.06.29 21:10:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Dimagus on 29/06/2007 21:12:15
Originally by: Archo X A queue is bad. Someone tried to relate the training queue to POS fuel. Well if my POS runs out of fuel it does not roll over to the corp hanger array to get fuel. I need to refuel it. So instead of waiting for DED mails I keep a note of when the POS was fueled and when it needs more I head back to fuel it.
This wasn't exactly the initial comparsion that was made to POS fueling. However, this argument is actually another strong point IN FAVOR of a skill queue. The flaw is that people only think of the start condition, not when either the training/fueling is in mid-cycle.
POSes do not just refuel themselves, you have to do it and refuel the POS. With a one slot skill queue, you have to do it and requeue the next skill. The key here is that you can refuel the POS at any time before it runs out. But what would happen if you could only refuel a POS after it runs out? You would be required to be online at that exact moment and would still have a brief period of vulnerability. Luckily POSes aren't like that, but unfortunately skills currently are. You're required to be online at the exact moment the skill finishes and still have a brief period of no training. This is under *optimal circumstances* for both case, anything going on with the game server, your internet, job, personal life, etc could fubar it and cost valuable time for training/researching.
A skill queue would making skill training more like POS fueling. As each skill is completed and the queue becomes empty, you have the duration of the skill's training time to requeue another skill. For a POS as the fuel starts consuming, you have the duration that the fuel last to refuel the POS. This is a good thing. You still can't train any faster than before, and can't skip queueing a skill any more than you can skip refueling.
When we train a skill that takes 20 days, we want that skill and should be able to have it in 20 days. But because the system is not user friendly it could take 21 or 22 days, because we had to switch to another skill or two we didn't need or even want yet simply because the finish time "wasn't convenient". It is ridiculous to expect people to be available 23/7, and not much else in the game does. That's why POSes go into reinforced, because we aren't online 23/7 and so we get some measure of control to when we have to defend it.
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Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr Dark Oracle Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.30 01:51:00 -
[47]
/Signed
I, myself, would really like to see this one implemented - even if it was skill based off the learning skill tree (allowing you extra skill to be in que).
Other considerations would be: No still que for trail accounts Skill do not continue on the que if account is not active.
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dadar
The Return FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.30 02:33:00 -
[48]
i would vote for this would let me pay my sub for the next year then go back to playing funner games till i get the 20 million skill points needed to be competive in this one.
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dadar
The Return FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.30 02:36:00 -
[49]
o ya on a side note the farmers don't care about que there job is being around to change skills thats were they get there pay check. were the rest of us have to actualy go to a job for 8 to 12 hours a day and can't be here to switch skills every 3 to 5 hours.
they sponsor eve mon which has great skill planner why can't game allow you to upload you skill plan from eve mon and use it as long as you pay your subcription.
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.30 16:05:00 -
[50]
if there is a queue, it should be limited to skills after they reach a certain point. So you can't set a queue for a skill that is 30 days long. But once that skill is within say, 24 hours, then you have an option to queue. But in the end, I just put a longer skill on and regulate multiple skills down to 1 hour or so (unless I know I will be on) and wipe them all off when I am on for an op or some such.
It just takes some managment, and the threat is too great.
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Qaedus
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Posted - 2007.07.01 06:55:00 -
[51]
A simple solution that should prevent abuse is to limit the amount of time and number of skills that can be queued up.
How about a max of five skills or one day - whichever comes first will prevent additional skills from being added to the list.
That should handle the case of multiple short skills that need to be trained yet still prevent skill farmers from doing anything more that they already can do today. |
Ines Sastre
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Posted - 2007.07.02 14:20:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Dimagus Edited by: Dimagus on 29/06/2007 21:12:15
Originally by: Archo X A queue is bad. Someone tried to relate the training queue to POS fuel. Well if my POS runs out of fuel it does not roll over to the corp hanger array to get fuel. I need to refuel it. So instead of waiting for DED mails I keep a note of when the POS was fueled and when it needs more I head back to fuel it.
This wasn't exactly the initial comparsion that was made to POS fueling. However, this argument is actually another strong point IN FAVOR of a skill queue. The flaw is that people only think of the start condition, not when either the training/fueling is in mid-cycle.
POSes do not just refuel themselves, you have to do it and refuel the POS. With a one slot skill queue, you have to do it and requeue the next skill. The key here is that you can refuel the POS at any time before it runs out. But what would happen if you could only refuel a POS after it runs out? You would be required to be online at that exact moment and would still have a brief period of vulnerability. Luckily POSes aren't like that, but unfortunately skills currently are. You're required to be online at the exact moment the skill finishes and still have a brief period of no training. This is under *optimal circumstances* for both case, anything going on with the game server, your internet, job, personal life, etc could fubar it and cost valuable time for training/researching.
A skill queue would making skill training more like POS fueling. As each skill is completed and the queue becomes empty, you have the duration of the skill's training time to requeue another skill. For a POS as the fuel starts consuming, you have the duration that the fuel last to refuel the POS. This is a good thing. You still can't train any faster than before, and can't skip queueing a skill any more than you can skip refueling.
When we train a skill that takes 20 days, we want that skill and should be able to have it in 20 days. But because the system is not user friendly it could take 21 or 22 days, because we had to switch to another skill or two we didn't need or even want yet simply because the finish time "wasn't convenient". It is ridiculous to expect people to be available 23/7, and not much else in the game does. That's why POSes go into reinforced, because we aren't online 23/7 and so we get some measure of control to when we have to defend it.
Dimagus strikes perfectly on Archo X leaving him clueless
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Wrathstack
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Posted - 2007.07.02 14:34:00 -
[53]
It would be nice to be able to have 1 queue slot and no more BUT after a year or two people would whine that they should get 2 slots or that there should be a skill to raise your amount of queueable(is this even a word?) skills.
No POS's dont refuel themselves BUT you can choose to let it run out OR refill it when you are on, skills are a choice of either making sure that you can log in RIGHT when the skill ends, losing time while you are dealing with RL in some form(work, sleep, etc) or choosing a different skill since you know that you will be unable to login at 4am to change up.
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Wyehr
Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.02 18:01:00 -
[54]
Solution to the character farming "problem": Set a cap on the total queue time, like 24 or 48 hours.
Just long enough to let people train up midlevels without having to log in several times during the day. People would still need to set long running skills for extended breaks.
[ 2007.03.18 18:45:59 ] (notify) Typhoon belonging to Gandolf self-destructs. |
Belmarduk
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:54:00 -
[55]
I too want a skill-queue - Disable queue when account is not active.
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Johraiken Fenris
LiveTech
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Posted - 2007.07.02 20:41:00 -
[56]
As there is no grind for XP/SP in Eve, and how the skill system is set up, your EUR/$ 15,- should give you 30*24hrs of skill training. I feel CCP should give you reasonable tools to fully utilise that time.
As many people have mentioned, you often cannot log in to change a skill (work, and recently I missed a couple of hours due to the server reboots and consequently being down for hours). The requirement of you being online to change the skill when it's finished is not a reasonable tool in my opinion.
Therfore: [/signed]
Johr
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Loraen
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Posted - 2007.07.02 22:39:00 -
[57]
I have a reasonable amount of free time and I'm pretty dedicated to microing my skill advancement. It does get annoying at times, especially when there's a bunch of skills I'd want "tomorrow" and can't pick any of them because they'll finish in the middle of the night.
"Train this skill next" would be a nice feature addition. As a nerf, this option would only appear when you have less than, say, 24 hours remaining on the currently training skill.
PS. They really should fix the system to disable skill training on inactive accounts.
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Granmethedon III
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.03 11:26:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Johraiken Fenris As there is no grind for XP/SP in Eve, and how the skill system is set up, your EUR/$ 15,- should give you 30*24hrs of skill training. I feel CCP should give you reasonable tools to fully utilise that time.
As many people have mentioned, you often cannot log in to change a skill (work, and recently I missed a couple of hours due to the server reboots and consequently being down for hours). The requirement of you being online to change the skill when it's finished is not a reasonable tool in my opinion.
Therfore: [/signed]
Johr
No, there's a completely different way of managing skills which still has a part that means you have to be online to change your skill over; it's a KEY part of the game. Skill management and training is one of the things that makes EVE great; you have to plan ahead and ensure that you get the most out of your training time.
Your subscription fee doesn't entitle you to any skills whatsoever, it simply entitles you to play the game.
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Jared Lighthawk
Silver Aria
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Posted - 2007.07.03 15:09:00 -
[59]
I would love to have a 1 skill queue. That way those times when you are away or whatnot you could line up two long skills or something. Or if you need to goto work but need 2 4hr skills trained you could line up 1 additional next skill. Maybe put a rare skill out there to add more to the queue or something ( or tie to to # of skill points earned. 5mil +1 slot, etc).
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Belmarduk
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Posted - 2007.07.05 19:56:00 -
[60]
I would really like this implemented SOON ! BEFORE things like walking around space stations...
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