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SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.09 23:46:00 - [1] no empire has established lines of communication there so only make people show up if they talk as a rudimentary communications service instead of - player has join system - notification ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Arhes Branwin	Posted - 2007.07.09 23:55:00 - [2] Alright, you can remove local from 0.0 when I can turn jump gates on and off..If I have soverignty why would I want people moving in and out of my space (or my constellation) when I didn't have the forces to prepare for them.
LogixCraft Gallente Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.09 23:57:00 - [3] Border control :D, you enter a country (solar system) and you need to go through a border with ID and all. You enter our space, you show up in local. I think someone got podded for being in hostile 0.0 space
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.09 23:59:00 - [4] There's no RP reason for no local in 0.0, gates are the mechanism by which notifications are likely handled, and the 0.0 gates are the same as those in empire. -
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:02:00 - [5] nerf Sijira for useless threads. Recruiting Terrorists
Vitrael Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:07:00 - [6] Sorry, no. ----------
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Ryas Nia nerf Sijira for useless threads. QFT -
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Crumplecorn There's no RP reason for no local in 0.0, gates are the mechanism by which notifications are likely handled, and the 0.0 gates are the same as those in empire. On top of that, the entire gate system itself is under CONCORD jurisdiction, newly constructed stargates require CONCORD approval to be activated, such as when the drone regions were opened up to players. Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Arhes Branwin	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:26:00 - [9] Does Concord respond in 0.0 to anything, including attacking a stargate? Some of the gates are even smuggler's gates...not ones placed there by one of the empire factions. Why shouldn't someone be able to destroy them. And please, I'm merely playing devil's advocate here. I'm not suggesting that the majority of 0.0 be totally lockdown-able by it's controlling alliances/corporations.
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Arhes Branwin Does Concord respond in 0.0 to anything, including attacking a stargate? Some of the gates are even smuggler's gates...not ones placed there by one of the empire factions. Why shouldn't someone be able to destroy them. And please, I'm merely playing devil's advocate here. I'm not suggesting that the majority of 0.0 be totally lockdown-able by it's controlling alliances/corporations. There's at least one, if not multiple EVE Chronicles that mention CONCORD activity in 0.0, but they're all busy with their failed attempts to take out the NPC pirates out there. Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:31:00 - [11] Edited by: SiJira on 10/07/2007 00:31:25 Originally by: Arhes Branwin Alright, you can remove local from 0.0 when I can turn jump gates on and off..If I have soverignty why would I want people moving in and out of my space (or my constellation) when I didn't have the forces to prepare for them. you need to at least maintain sovereignty 1 to have the option of turning local on in your system dont forget kids there is lots of 0.0 with no alliance control or presence ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:31:00 - [12] How are so many people suddenly against removing local as a spy tool? I thought everyone wanted local nerfed for that. I sure do. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Frug How are so many people suddenly against removing local as a spy tool? I thought everyone wanted local nerfed for that. I sure do. Everyone? Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Rh'jamiz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:37:00 - [14] Man, I remember when everyone was like 'Get rid of local!' and now people want it? Crazy. ________ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -LordHarold ([email protected])
LogixCraft Gallente Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:40:00 - [15] I like to know when reds are our space, so we can defend ourselves. Also it would take fovever to see if someone is in that system without local. Docking at stations, scan the belts, plants, moons, sun. check the gates. ect ect. Spys are always going to be around, no local won't fix that, if your in a decent alliance, most likely someone in your alliance is a spy.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.10 00:45:00 - [16] I think no one should show up in local chat anywhere unless they speak in it. ------------------
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:11:00 - [17] Edited by: Matthew Cooper on 10/07/2007 01:11:32 This is a compromise I would be happy with: Players flying a cloaked ship in space do not show up in local unless they say something in local. They would however, be visible in the local list to corp/alliance members. Everyone else in space/docked at a station would remain on the list as they do now. Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Yukami Kido Caldari Adeptus Illuminati Aegis Authentica Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:14:00 - [18] You know there was a patch a while back that did something along thease lines and totaly broke local. All you got in local was text no people present nothing. It was total chaos to say the least. Funny thing is 90% of people including people who have bene known to bitvh about local were pretty quick to jump on CCP's case to get it fixed. So i guess you can say this has been tried and failed so unless a compromise or new system comes around were stuck with local.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Rh'jamiz Man, I remember when everyone was like 'Get rid of local!' and now people want it? Crazy. Hell, even knowing someone is there isn't good enough these days, people want to be able to scan them down even if they are cloaked. -
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Yukami Kido Edited by: Yukami Kido on 10/07/2007 01:14:34 You know there was a patch a while back that did something along thease lines and totaly broke local (dont remember which patch exactly). All you got in local was text no people present nothing. It was total chaos to say the least. Funny thing is 90% of people including people who have bene known to ***** about local were pretty quick to jump on CCP's case to get it fixed. That was pretty fun actually, and I'm as carebearish as they come. ------------ LAG - Hopefully teen-appropriate now. IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Princess Voodoo FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:28:00 - [21] shut the hell up with this idea, it's stupid I KILLED SOMEONE - HERE IS A PICTURES OF IT [ ]
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Princess Voodoo shut the hell up with this idea, it's stupid this is the best reason to implement it cause you whine! ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Strepsils	Posted - 2007.07.10 02:05:00 - [23] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Princess Voodoo shut the hell up with this idea, it's stupid this is the best reason to implement it cause you whine! Oh, the irony
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.10 02:29:00 - [24] I usually take residence in 0.0. I like Localy Exactly the way it is. (nor should sov ever allow people to lock down systems and such, just more nonsense.) Another one bites the dust.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 02:30:00 - [25] I want local chat nerfed It would go a long way to help deal with 0.0 isk farmer Ravens. I hate them.
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.10 03:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Ephemeron I want local chat nerfed It would go a long way to help deal with 0.0 isk farmer Ravens. I hate them. How so? And secondly, why is it that people complain so much more about farming Ravens these days than macro miners? Are there really that many more Ravens with cloaks in 0.0 than there are barges in Empire? Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 03:32:00 - [27] I rarely go to empire so what happens there doesn't bother me. But in 0.0 there are thousands of them. Perhaps 1/3 of all people in 0.0 are isk farmer Ravens.
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.10 03:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Ephemeron I rarely go to empire so what happens there doesn't bother me. I rarely go to 0.0, so what happens there doesn't bother me. Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 03:55:00 - [29] then you have no reason to post in a "remove local for 0.0" thread
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.10 04:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Ephemeron then you have no reason to post in a "remove local for 0.0" thread Pardon me for forgetting my sarcasm tag. The 0.0 economy and the Empire economy are not seperate, and things that happen in one will have an indirect effect on the other. Since I haven't seen the "numbers" on macro ratters I can only make guesses based on my own experience. It's easy to take a screenshot of a belt with 20 macro miners in it, it's not easy to take a screenshot of X number of cloaking Ravens spread across 0.0. Since the population of 0.0 is much less than empire, I can only guess that the number of macro cloak ravens is a lot less than the number of macro miners. Secondly, barring the occasional officer spawn that is going to a macro ratter, I don't see how these people are having a direct impact on your ability to rat. If they safe spot when you enter local, then they are no longer preventing you from ratting there, nor are they preventing you from ratting anywhere else. On the other hand, macro miners can mine out belts entirely in empire, forcing miners to move elsewhere. That aside, there's the concept of the "slippery slope". If people complained to CCP enough to remove local in 0.0, it's not too hard to imagine people complaining until local was removed entirely from the game. That applies to me, which is why I have reason to post in a thread about removing local from 0.0 Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 04:21:00 - [31] these people bother me cause I can't effectively kill them. They start warping out of belt as soon as someone enters local. Basically, they are as safe in 0.0 as they are in empire. I want them to have more risk.
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.10 04:28:00 - [32] Edited by: Matthew Cooper on 10/07/2007 04:27:29 Originally by: Ephemeron these people bother me cause I can't effectively kill them Are you looking for easy kills? If so, too bad. Or are you looking to actually prevent these people from farming? I'd rather see this problem solved through petitions or just preventing it by forcing them to stay cloaked 23/7 so they're forced to move elsewhere or farm something else. I don't want to see long-established game mechanics compromised just to make it a little easier for you to pop them. Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.07.10 05:13:00 - [33] Originally by: Frug How are so many people suddenly against removing local as a spy tool? I thought everyone wanted local nerfed for that. I sure do. Most people are lazy, they want as much easy mode as possible. And why only remove local in 0.0, local makes pirating in low sec less fun.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.07.10 05:51:00 - [34] I think Local should be nerfed in 0.0 as well. I mean It be great for small corps and gangs because they just have a covop and fly around and find a farmer. Also it make it alot more interesting. and give covo ops more roles to play a part in 0.0! I think its best way to kill the farmer (Macro).
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.10 06:10:00 - [35] Originally by: Pilok **fly Originally by: Frug How are so many people suddenly against removing local as a spy tool? I thought everyone wanted local nerfed for that. I sure do. Most people are capable of thinking this idea through before posting about it, and quickly realize its numerous flaws.
Gner Dechast Gallente Flashman Services	Posted - 2007.07.10 07:27:00 - [36] I am also one of those that would dearly like to see local channel nerfed from 0.0. I'm not insensitive to 0.0 dwellers either, so I would like them to have ability to establish various degrees of local functionality in the systems where they have souverignity (speeling?). Someone mentioned gate control. Once upon a time I thought it might be cool that attacking force would have to shoot the gates defences (shields) before gaining access to it - which might be nice for highest level of souverignity ("might" as I propably can't see all aspects about it) But the ever-present bulleting board of everyone coming and going (local channel) like it is now, is in my opinion really lame. ...just another opinion into this thread. Move along.
Seth Ruin Minmatar Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.10 09:23:00 - [37] Weekend warriors, the most of you. Spend a month out in 0.0 and you'll realize a single red in local is enough to cause a panic, and 9 times out of 10, you can't find the bugger before he disappears. So... what's the point of nerfing local? Making it that much easier for spies to take an inventory of every moon in the system? Or is it the who don't want the big bad to know they're there? The way some of you people complain about local, you'd think there's a "warp to player" function for someone who shows up in local. Trust me, even in a well-protected, well-populated 0.0 sovereign system, knowing there is a spy gives the alliance practically nothing. As was mentioned earlier, the more intelligent alliances have spies actually in their opponents' alliance(s) anyway.
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.10 10:44:00 - [38] it is sort of ironic I rat in a raven in 0.0 in a cloak. Just the best smartest build when a hostile shows up. Every Pvper needs to sit down and actually earn their money for their PvP ships, after all. Another one bites the dust.
Mortecai Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.07.10 10:54:00 - [39] Tere was a bug during one patch where local didn't work for one evening. So I did a little experiment and flew around in 0.0 to see how does it feel. It was a bit claustrophobic experience. Never knowing what you gonna see on the next gate, spamming the scanner button constantly to get that 10 seconds heads up. It is a different experience. PVPers who like to fly gate -> gate and look for targets it would be nice. still we would need realtime scanner option to help us know were passing a target in warp etc. But for haulers, ratters, mission runners no local would scare them away from 0.0. The chances of loosing a ship are quite big as the advantage is only to the hunters and even then it's alot of work hopping into a large system and going about every part of the system trying to find targets that might be doing something there.
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:03:00 - [40] i'd love to see local removed from 0.0 except for players who control system sovereignty.
Milo Deadstar Minmatar Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:10:00 - [41] wow look at all the carebears come out of the woodwork over this local is complete rubbish, carebears already have EVERYTHING in their favor and with someone watching local its impossible to ever get caught out by pirates, make local only show the number of ppl in system, using it as a precise intel tool is just stupid. If you dont want ppl in your space set ppl in your alliance shifts to guard the gates not some magic window that tells you everything.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:22:00 - [42] Local is the main cause of BLOBAGE... the fact that you know exactly how many your enemy has estimulate you to brign a few more to be sure to outnumber them. They see that and do same etc.. nerf local and FC will have to take more chances and more fun will happen. Controlling the borders is easy. Just keep constellation chat, its enough for that. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
midge Mo'yb Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:27:00 - [43] just remove at and add communication relay modules to POS's and the owning corp/alliance to activate local
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:32:00 - [44] I always thought it was very "carebearish" to have a member directory of everyone in local in the 0.0 systems. First of all, it makes true scouting/spying impossible. What's the point of scouting ahead to check gates for enemies, if someone you are war with sees you and decides to call for backup. Secondly, I think it would add more of "hardcore" feel to the game. Unless I am warping into a gate camp, there is usually no real ambushes/ganks. If I am sitting back, biting on some ore in a system that my alliance has soverenty in and a bunch of red shows up in local, if I have no fire power, I can safely dock or log off at a safe point before they can set up scan. Personally, the way I feel it should be (being true to Eve) is that if a section of space does not currently have any soverenty, then the only way to watch the system is by watching the gate (which most campers do anyway). If a corp claims a system, allow them to place up to so many scanning drones. Drones that sit by the gates (or other celestials) and watch for activity, reporting back activity in a log. No need to squash 0.0 local chat though. Just make it so people don't show up unless they want to be seen. Maybe even make -1.0 space that requires players to build there own gates that have usage tracking mechanisms.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:41:00 - [45] A more important change would be the removal of 90% of the map features for 0.0, that way you'd actually have to be there to know what's up, not spotting some fleet, POS' and stations from the far side of the galaxy. Also Known As
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Local is the main cause of BLOBAGE... the fact that you know exactly how many your enemy has estimulate you to brign a few more to be sure to outnumber them. They see that and do same etc.. nerf local and FC will have to take more chances and more fun will happen. Controlling the borders is easy. Just keep constellation chat, its enough for that. exactly, we do however need a better scanner to detect what is actually in local with us then and no friggin POS modules that are utterly overpowered and can "scan" upto 10 jumps..
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.10 12:27:00 - [47] Hm. So a scanner which performs the same function as local, except you have to push butan? This improves the game how?
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 12:41:00 - [48] Originally by: Matthew Cooper Originally by: Ephemeron then you have no reason to post in a "remove local for 0.0" thread Pardon me for forgetting my sarcasm tag. The 0.0 economy and the Empire economy are not seperate, and things that happen in one will have an indirect effect on the other. Since I haven't seen the "numbers" on macro ratters I can only make guesses based on my own experience. It's easy to take a screenshot of a belt with 20 macro miners in it, it's not easy to take a screenshot of X number of cloaking Ravens spread across 0.0. Since the population of 0.0 is much less than empire, I can only guess that the number of macro cloak ravens is a lot less than the number of macro miners. Secondly, barring the occasional officer spawn that is going to a macro ratter, I don't see how these people are having a direct impact on your ability to rat. If they safe spot when you enter local, then they are no longer preventing you from ratting there, nor are they preventing you from ratting anywhere else. On the other hand, macro miners can mine out belts entirely in empire, forcing miners to move elsewhere. That aside, there's the concept of the "slippery slope". If people complained to CCP enough to remove local in 0.0, it's not too hard to imagine people complaining until local was removed entirely from the game. That applies to me, which is why I have reason to post in a thread about removing local from 0.0 Anyways local wont be able to help macro ratters after the cloak nerf, & logoffski nerf, both of which are already in line for nerfing IM just wondering what type of loot macro rats drop . Do not read this thread!!!
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.07.10 13:35:00 - [49] Originally by: James Duar Most people are capable of thinking this idea through before posting about it, and quickly realize its numerous flaws. Name a few,i don't think i will change my mind about removing local in low sec (don't give a **** about 0.0)
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.10 14:06:00 - [50] Originally by: James Duar Hm. So a scanner which performs the same function as local, except you have to push butan? This improves the game how? No no.. Scanner cannot and should not cover whole system, scanner cannot tell if ships are piloted or floating in a POS. And they can tell you WICH pilot it is!!! Even witha scanner that gets 33% of system area, would take at least 10 minutes to have a reasonable estimative of enemy numbers in a system. And even that would have alarge error margin. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Solokar	Posted - 2007.07.10 20:07:00 - [51] I sometimes wonder what the response would be if everyone was given the option of removing local OR removing cloaking from the game.
Jennai The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.10 21:14:00 - [52] Originally by: northwesten I think Local should be nerfed in 0.0 as well. I mean It be great for small corps and gangs because they just have a covop and fly around and find a farmer. Also it make it alot more interesting. and give covo ops more roles to play a part in 0.0! I think its best way to kill the farmer (Macro). good luck actually finding anything to kill with no local. like 95% of the systems are always empty, and if you get something on scanner you can't tell if it's a player or one of the thousands of empty ships at a POS. having to send a covops to every belt in every system you go through would be boring as hell and kill roaming pvp/pirate gangs. gate camping is boring, I'd rather go gank ratters in their own space.
Ogdru Jahad Amarr Hookers and Black Jack Flaming Hookers	Posted - 2007.07.10 21:37:00 - [53] 10 if local removed then goto 20 20 is local true then insta update pilots in space. aka if you remove local then pilots in space via the map should have an instantly updated. - :
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.10 21:47:00 - [54] Originally by: Crumplecorn There's no RP reason for local in 0.0 Fixed it for you. And btw players do not own constellations, they own the structures they build, nothing more, nothing less. It's like claiming the moon or soon, it doesn't make sense. Locking gates and such would be the worst idea ever. ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
bldyannoyed Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.10 21:49:00 - [55] Removing local would serve only to make Lowsec and 0.0 a total and utter pain in the ass. All it would do is make life harder for absolutely everyone involved. Hunting in lowsec or 0.0? Well you better be prepared to warp around every system you enter spamming the scan button every 5 seconds to find out if theres even someone there. Same applies to anyone already in system, sit there spamming the scan button constantly to try and get some early warning if you're about to get ganked. How would this improve the game? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:03:00 - [56] Originally by: bldyannoyed Removing local would serve only to make Lowsec and 0.0 a total and utter pain in the ass. How would this improve the game? That would allow PvP, plain and simple. 0.0 is much safer than lowsec, there's something wrong here. Local is used as an intel tool, it is not. Remove it. And adapt if you fear being jumped on. ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Jennai The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:09:00 - [57] Originally by: Sorja Originally by: bldyannoyed Removing local would serve only to make Lowsec and 0.0 a total and utter pain in the ass. How would this improve the game? That would allow PvP, plain and simple. 0.0 is much safer than lowsec, there's something wrong here. Local is used as an intel tool, it is not. Remove it. And adapt if you fear being jumped on. it would make 0.0 EVEN SAFER because it's so empty that no one's going to bother warping to every belt in every system trying to find ratters.
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:16:00 - [58] Agreed, in a first time. Then people would adapt, and only those worthy living in 0.0 would live there. ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:38:00 - [59] Sorry, although I have many views and ideas on this subject, I will not be airing them in the thread of a spineless alt OP. That is all. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Bad Borris Caldari Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:44:00 - [60] People have been talking about this since forever. I think that as an attacker I am happier about it than as a defender. If you took away local in 0.0 it would promote gankage in belts big time. I know I would not be very happy if i had no warning whatsoever and got ganked ratting or mining. That said, treating any system like a chummy little chat room doesnt quite fit eve imo. Im on the fence.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:46:00 - [61] Originally by: Sorja Originally by: Crumplecorn There's no RP reason to remove local in 0.0 You're right, and your sigs are awesome. Can I have your babies? Fixed it for you. - Sigs are back! \o/
LogixCraft Gallente Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:56:00 - [62] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Sorja Originally by: Crumplecorn There's no RP reason to remove local in 0.0 You're right, and your sigs are awesome. Can I have your babies? Fixed it for you. You sir are now my new god. bows
Mortuus Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.10 23:10:00 - [63] What about entry through smuggler gates? Those are not CONCORD run. I'd be fine with it, you want to know who is in your space, set up some guards. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.10 23:11:00 - [64] Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:12:36 Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:11:30 How To Fix Local In 1 Easy Step: Add a module to the game. High slot, low fitting requirements. Passive module that is always active. If its fitted to your ship you do not show up local and you cannot see anything in local. So if you jump into a system with 10 people in local and you have the module equipped they wouldn't see you in local and you wouldn't see them. You couldn't talk in local or see what they say either. Players would still show up on scanner like normal. Examples of how would this affect gameplay: Roaming gang: All scouts would equip this module. They'd enter a system together and wouldn't show up on local. Therefore they wouldn't scare away anyone. The downside is you have no idea how many hostiles are in local, if any. The rest of the gang would not equip this module. They'd wait for word of a tackle and then jump in normally. Fleet: You could disguise the size of your fleet with this module. Half your gang has one the other half doesn't. You jump in 100 people but local count only goes up by 50. Would really make good scouts more important. Defending your space: Entire gangs could stealth through your system but its a double edged sword because they won't know how many you have either. Would require people to actually fly around and defend their space rather than sitting docked all day and smacking in local like they do now. Defense gangs of Recons would be deadly. Don't show up in local or on 360. Sit 20 of em around a gate and gank the **** out of everyone who jumps in. Personally I think this would be the best way to fix the local problem. Makes ships that really want stealth sacrifice something valueable, ie a high slot. Shamis Orzoz: Cap Boosters are for losers. I don't run out of gas.
Doktor Quick	Posted - 2007.07.10 23:59:00 - [65] Originally by: LogixCraft Border control :D, you enter a country (solar system) and you need to go through a border with ID and all. You enter our space, you show up in local. I think someone got podded for being in hostile 0.0 space no it's just a troll, i've been watching him make ludicrous posts for days, he even had the nerve to necro a 3 year old thread about m0o, the mods will eventually ban his dumb @$$ just wait
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:08:00 - [66] Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:12:36 Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:11:30 How To Fix Local In 1 Easy Step: Add a module to the game. High slot, low fitting requirements. Passive module that is always active. If its fitted to your ship you do not show up local and you cannot see anything in local. So if you jump into a system with 10 people in local and you have the module equipped they wouldn't see you in local and you wouldn't see them. You couldn't talk in local or see what they say either. Players would still show up on scanner like normal. Examples of how would this affect gameplay: Roaming gang: All scouts would equip this module. They'd enter a system together and wouldn't show up on local. Therefore they wouldn't scare away anyone. The downside is you have no idea how many hostiles are in local, if any. The rest of the gang would not equip this module. They'd wait for word of a tackle and then jump in normally. Fleet: You could disguise the size of your fleet with this module. Half your gang has one the other half doesn't. You jump in 100 people but local count only goes up by 50. Would really make good scouts more important. Defending your space: Entire gangs could stealth through your system but its a double edged sword because they won't know how many you have either. Would require people to actually fly around and defend their space rather than sitting docked all day and smacking in local like they do now. Defense gangs of Recons would be deadly. Don't show up in local or on 360. Sit 20 of em around a gate and gank the **** out of everyone who jumps in. Personally I think this would be the best way to fix the local problem. Makes ships that really want stealth sacrifice something valueable, ie a high slot. brilliant idea for a module ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Chucky Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:51:00 - [67] Like AFK/Pink Ninja cloakers aren't lame enough, this would set up more lame tactic's ... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Chucky Like AFK/Pink Ninja cloakers aren't lame enough, this would set up more lame tactic's what would it setup exactly? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Gort Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:04:00 - [69] Originally by: Hannobaal I think no one should show up in local chat anywhere unless they speak in it. /signed. -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
FuQue	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:15:00 - [70] Tie it into Soverignty. If you have constellation sovergnty, then perhaps there is a POS structure or some other method that will tell all alliance/corp members about gate activations in the area. With constellation sovergnty, you will get notified when a hostile enters your constellation. Perhaps even have some control over the stargates themselves. Putting up sentry guns comes to mind. Perhaps instead of instant notification of the player entering a system if you have sovergnty, have some sort of "Identifier" module anchored at the stargate (which can be destroyed) to notify alliance/corpmates of incoming players. Set it to friendly/hostile/neutral whatever you like. If that's not an option, perhaps removing local unless you chat in it - but also notify players (via popup only) that a new player has entered the system. Hard to get a count that way, and at least ratters will feel a little safer - other than spamming their 'new to be implemented when local is removed' scan function every 10 seconds. Pirates will supposedly have a better method of scanning for players in a system if local is removed (as will all players) so ratters/miners won't be safe at all. It will take time for the ratter/miner to safe up, and may not even catch that a player entered the system. Pirates will still have a very good chance to catch people. Ratters will have a good chance to avoid. All without having local open. One would still need to pay close attention to their game to rat and/or mine (to the dismay of farmers everywhere). Just some thoughts. I personally would like to see it tied into sovergnty somehow.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:48:00 - [71] If CONCORD does not keep track of your ship in 0.0, how would they be able to give you bounties for shooting rats? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:48:00 - [72] If CONCORD does not keep track of your ship in 0.0, how would they be able to give you bounties for shooting rats? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
LogixCraft Gallente Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:50:00 - [73] Edited by: LogixCraft on 13/07/2007 20:50:08 Originally by: Merdaneth If CONCORD does not keep track of your ship in 0.0, how would they be able to give you bounties for shooting rats? /\ Win.
LogixCraft Gallente Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:50:00 - [74] Edited by: LogixCraft on 13/07/2007 20:50:08 Originally by: Merdaneth If CONCORD does not keep track of your ship in 0.0, how would they be able to give you bounties for shooting rats? /\ Win.
XiticiX Gallente Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:53:00 - [75] Originally by: Merdaneth If CONCORD does not keep track of your ship in 0.0, how would they be able to give you bounties for shooting rats? Pff! Because of the automatic bounty report that gets sent to Concord from every ship, silly ~~~ This is my sig. Do you like it? ~~~
XiticiX Gallente Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:53:00 - [76] Originally by: Merdaneth If CONCORD does not keep track of your ship in 0.0, how would they be able to give you bounties for shooting rats? Pff! Because of the automatic bounty report that gets sent to Concord from every ship, silly ~~~ This is my sig. Do you like it? ~~~
Ddredar	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:55:00 - [77] Originally by: Merdaneth If CONCORD does not keep track of your ship in 0.0, how would they be able to give you bounties for shooting rats? They drop an item you can turn in for the bounty. This would also give you pirates out there a chance at stealing the bounty. Quote: GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.13 21:11:00 - [78] Since both sides are pretty polarized on this issue, perhaps a compromise would be beneficial. What if you had local still, but it was sort of a delayed mode. I was imagining something like this: Linkage This way, 0.0 territory holders can identify threats and fleets, and defend against smaller gangs that stay in one place too long or are reported in an intel channel. Smaller gangs get a chance to attack unwary NPC'ers and other people. Sadly, it does not address the macro NPC'ing raven issue but it's a step in the right direction I think.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.14 14:50:00 - [79] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Since both sides are pretty polarized on this issue, perhaps a compromise would be beneficial. What if you had local still, but it was sort of a delayed mode. I was imagining something like this: Linkage This way, 0.0 territory holders can identify threats and fleets, and defend against smaller gangs that stay in one place too long or are reported in an intel channel. Smaller gangs get a chance to attack unwary NPC'ers and other people. Sadly, it does not address the macro NPC'ing raven issue but it's a step in the right direction I think. thats like a 90/10 compromise cause ultimately it does little difference for those who want 0.0 local removed - with the exception of sovereignty ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Gentlewind	Posted - 2007.07.14 14:53:00 - [80] Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:12:36 Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:11:30 How To Fix Local In 1 Easy Step: Add a module to the game. High slot, low fitting requirements. Passive module that is always active. If its fitted to your ship you do not show up local and you cannot see anything in local. So if you jump into a system with 10 people in local and you have the module equipped they wouldn't see you in local and you wouldn't see them. You couldn't talk in local or see what they say either. Players would still show up on scanner like normal. Examples of how would this affect gameplay: Roaming gang: All scouts would equip this module. They'd enter a system together and wouldn't show up on local. Therefore they wouldn't scare away anyone. The downside is you have no idea how many hostiles are in local, if any. The rest of the gang would not equip this module. They'd wait for word of a tackle and then jump in normally. Fleet: You could disguise the size of your fleet with this module. Half your gang has one the other half doesn't. You jump in 100 people but local count only goes up by 50. Would really make good scouts more important. Defending your space: Entire gangs could stealth through your system but its a double edged sword because they won't know how many you have either. Would require people to actually fly around and defend their space rather than sitting docked all day and smacking in local like they do now. Defense gangs of Recons would be deadly. Don't show up in local or on 360. Sit 20 of em around a gate and gank the **** out of everyone who jumps in. Personally I think this would be the best way to fix the local problem. Makes ships that really want stealth sacrifice something valueable, ie a high slot. The idea for this sort of module was posted in the game development forum quite recently and is an excellent idea.
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.14 15:15:00 - [81] Originally by: SiJira thats like a 90/10 compromise cause ultimately it does little difference for those who want 0.0 local removed - with the exception of sovereignty Convincing the majority to outright remove 0.0 local will be difficult, and so you're going to have to settle for less, at least initially. I'm in favor of removing local entirely also, but I'd be willing to accept less in what is the first step of what are hopefully many to eventually have local removed.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.07.14 17:21:00 - [82] EVE IS A PVP GAME! Local is having a negativtive affect on pvp therefore it will not be removed / changed its only a matter of time. snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:24:00 - [83] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Originally by: SiJira thats like a 90/10 compromise cause ultimately it does little difference for those who want 0.0 local removed - with the exception of sovereignty Convincing the majority to outright remove 0.0 local will be difficult, and so you're going to have to settle for less, at least initially. I'm in favor of removing local entirely also, but I'd be willing to accept less in what is the first step of what are hopefully many to eventually have local removed. its fine having local in highsec to encourage those that dont like it to go away and its fine having local in lowsec because its still empire maybe your idea for lowsec could be apllied for 0.0 it needs to be fully removed and only reinstated for sovereignty through some cheap module that is anchored at outposts ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Tonkin D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:45:00 - [84] Originally by: SiJira no empire has established lines of communication there so only make people show up if they talk as a rudimentary communications service instead of - player has join system - notification stfu
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:47:00 - [85] Originally by: SiJira for 0.0 it needs to be fully removed and only reinstated for sovereignty through some cheap module that is anchored at outposts Like I said, I agree with you 100%. Removing local all at once is going to raise an outcry like it is now, though, so we'll need to do it in smaller steps. The idea I mentioned won't fix 0.0, but it's a small step in the right direction and has its advantages.
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.14 20:17:00 - [86] Originally by: Ryas Nia nerf Sijira for useless threads. /signed If babies were not meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be hibachi sized.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.14 21:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Eskalin Originally by: Ryas Nia nerf Sijira for useless threads. /signed you are right ill start making bob threads and i quit threads and whine bout lag threads ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Coasterbrian Aliastra	Posted - 2007.07.14 22:05:00 - [88] Allow me to explain something: People have been screaming for the removal of local chat since before I started playing. I started playing in March of 2004. If CCP hasn't done it already, it's not going to happen. Making a lot of crap threads about it isn't going to change that fact. ---------- Between corps.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.14 22:10:00 - [89] No local, less targets, 0.0 becomes the new lo-sec, empire gains a few more residents. If you want people to shoot at you have to make them think it's safe to come out and play.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.14 22:20:00 - [90] Originally by: Coasterbrian Allow me to explain something: People have been screaming for the removal of local chat since before I started playing. I started playing in March of 2004. If CCP hasn't done it already, it's not going to happen. Making a lot of crap threads about it isn't going to change that fact. just like heat didnt happen hmmm ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.14 22:24:00 - [91] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf No local, less targets, 0.0 becomes the new lo-sec, empire gains a few more residents. You're right in that there may be less targets because the inexperienced 0.0 pilots would return to empire, but those that are there would be easier to catch and fights would occur more often, because you could never be certain who's who in the system and whether or not they have reinforcements nearby. Currently, the moment you jump into local, you're scouted, and any potential targets go to safespots, pos's, dock, or log off. I've entered a system with 20 hostiles in local by myself in a sabre and there was nothing outside of pos shields in the system within 30 seconds. There should be some risk in 0.0, and unless you're traveling, there really isn't. Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf If you want people to shoot at you have to make them think it's safe to come out and play. The problem is that it is safe to go out and play, because they know they simply cannot be caught if they're paying any attention at all to local.
Leviathani Darkri Fatalix Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.14 22:24:00 - [92] Gate moniter probe...limited duration, would give a real time update of gate activations within it's range. Perhaps a 1 au range (possible to cover multiple gates if close), and would give standard overview information such as shiptype, shipname, pilot, etc...Would say that the pilot jumped out or in. lvl 1 skill allows anyone to launch one in nuetral or npc space, the higher the level of sovereignty the higher the skill needed to deploy. Perhaps with the highest level of sovereignty it would be impossible for anyone but the controlling alliance to deploy one. You could also perhaps put a limit on the number you can have active at any one time...say two or perhaps three, because of the cpu needed to analyze the realtime info.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.15 14:57:00 - [93] Originally by: Leviathani Darkri Edited by: Leviathani Darkri on 14/07/2007 22:35:19 Edited by: Leviathani Darkri on 14/07/2007 22:26:18 Gate moniter probe...limited duration, would give a real time update of gate activations within it's range. Perhaps a 1 au range (possible to cover multiple gates if close), and would give standard overview information such as shiptype, shipname, pilot, etc...Would say that the pilot jumped out or in. lvl 1 skill allows anyone to launch one in nuetral or npc space, the higher the level of sovereignty the higher the skill needed to deploy. Perhaps with the highest level of sovereignty it would be impossible for anyone but the controlling alliance to deploy one. In alliance space, the info would broadcast to all alliance members and perhaps allowed blues. You could also perhaps put a limit on the number you can have active at any one time...say two or perhaps three, because of the cpu needed to analyze the realtime info. Kinda like an advanced motion detector... your idea is intriguing ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.15 16:19:00 - [94] Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:12:36 Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:11:30 How To Fix Local In 1 Easy Step: Umm no.. this is one of the worst ideas I've seen yet. Lets see.. Stealth Bombers with 4 slots.. 1 dedicated to cloak.. another to this moronic module = Noone ever gonna fly a bomber Recons with 4-6 high slots.. again noones gonna bother cause it completly gimps them Hell this gimps anyone other then an 8 high slot ship. bad idea.. into the garbage it goes ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.15 23:06:00 - [95] remove it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.16 03:57:00 - [96] Keep it exactly the way it is. I don't see anything remotely wrong with the way it is, given the way the gates handle everything and you actually activate them to move between systems. and yes, I do enjoy its protection it grants if I'm ratting in my alliance's 0.0 area and I can be alone, and easily tell if someone appears in space to know to get to dock instantly. Another one bites the dust.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 04:43:00 - [97] Originally by: Kage Psychodin Keep it exactly the way it is. I don't see anything remotely wrong with the way it is, given the way the gates handle everything and you actually activate them to move between systems. and yes, I do enjoy its protection it grants if I'm ratting in my alliance's 0.0 area and I can be alone, and easily tell if someone appears in space to know to get to dock instantly. you dont own the gate so you dont deserve the information ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
DGWabbit Black Lance oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.07.16 04:49:00 - [98] I LOVE CLICKING THE SCEN BUTTON EVERY 5 SECONDS WHILE IM IN SPACE BECAUSE ITS UBER WHEN I RAT OR PVP OR MOVE SHIPS OR WARP AROUND OR LOOK AT THE STARS OR PLANETS OR ADMIRE THE VELDSPAR WHILE OR DID I MENTION LOOK AT THE STARS??!!! Okay...the caps were to make up for being on page 4 and all the idiots posting 30 times, with different alts, about how there should be no local and how much it will 'enhance' game play. Basically, ur telling everyone else to adapt by spamming the ** out of the scan button constantly because apparently...it adds to the *** game. Anyone else not notice how **** that is? And any of you idiots calling me a carebear, I think I've ratted half a dozen times in the past 4 months, missions are a waste of time. I know how to pvp and I dont care if local is there because I still kill ** loads of people, even those pesky macro-farmer-isk-selling-cloaking-ravens-of-death. Petition: Any low-sec pirates/low-sec miners/low-sec & hi-sec residents should have no say, what so ever, in local discussions. And that SrJitta nub who keeps spamming these topics should be locked in jita, stuck at a gate, unable to warp, unable to loggoffski, move, or dock...ever.
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.16 05:26:00 - [99] You're right. I don't own the gates. Nobody does. Not even BoB in their own sovereign space owns those gates, although they can put up a lot of camps around it. If I remember what one poster said before it, Concord or some other NPC faction supposedly owns all the system-system gates, and "that is why we all get information from them about everyone in the system."I'm just going off of memory. (and no offense, nobody is ever going to be able to get sovereignty in the area I live out in, They already get a decent enough benefit with POSes anyway.) Another one bites the dust.
Roger Douglas Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.07.16 05:40:00 - [100] Remove local?!?! How therefore shall I enjoy the smack? Smack- and laughing at it. The reason for local.
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.16 06:18:00 - [101] Originally by: DGWabbit I know how to pvp and I dont care if local is there because I still kill ** loads of people, even those pesky macro-farmer-isk-selling-cloaking-ravens-of-death. I checked your killboard, and not a single one of those ravens had a cloak fitted, and none had the traditional werwrsfdsd macro name. It wouldn't be unreasonable to say you haven't killed a single macro cloaking raven since at least october 2006, and possibly before that as well since that's as far as the killboard goes. Originally by:** DGWabbit Petition: Any low-sec pirates/low-sec miners/low-sec & hi-sec residents should have no say, what so ever, in local discussions. Why does their opinion not count but yours does? They might not have the same experience with local as regular 0.0 goers, but they use empire local as a way of tracking pirates, suspicious people, and war targets too. Originally by: DGWabbit Basically, ur telling everyone else to adapt by spamming the ** out of the scan button constantly because apparently...it adds to the ing game. Anyone else not notice how **** that is? If you refer to my idea earlier, spamming the scan button all the time would be unnecessary. And local needs to be removed because it detracts from the game. You have to take the benefits into consideration -- sure, removing local will have some disadvantages, but I think its benefits far outweigh those. Finally, also in reference to your "spam the scan button", unless you're a remarkably unskilled 0.0 hunter, you do this anyway all the time. When I'm looking for targets, the scanner is my #1 offensive and defensive tool and I spam it without a second thought. Oh, and when you make a bunch of statements (opinions), you should have some facts or arguments to back them up. Explain WHY** you think removing local won't enhance gameplay, for example.
Trind2222 Amarr The Red Ring	Posted - 2007.07.16 06:29:00 - [102] Yes pleas nerf local and romove belts from owerview ccp this will be good for us , and make obs so it can find the belts players playing this game it will help the raters 2.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 18:15:00 - [103] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Edited by: Vmir Gallahasen on 16/07/2007 06:27:47 Originally by: DGWabbit I know how to pvp and I dont care if local is there because I still kill ** loads of people, even those pesky macro-farmer-isk-selling-cloaking-ravens-of-death. I checked your killboard, and not a single one of those ravens had a cloak fitted, and none had the traditional werwrsfdsd macro name. It wouldn't be unreasonable to say you haven't killed a single macro cloaking raven since at least october 2006, and possibly before that as well since that's as far as the killboard goes. Originally by:** DGWabbit Petition: Any low-sec pirates/low-sec miners/low-sec & hi-sec residents should have no say, what so ever, in local discussions. Why does their opinion not count but yours does? They might not have the same experience with local as regular 0.0 goers, but they use empire local as a way of tracking pirates, suspicious people, and war targets too. Originally by: DGWabbit Basically, ur telling everyone else to adapt by spamming the ** out of the scan button constantly because apparently...it adds to the ing game. Anyone else not notice how **** that is? If you refer to my idea earlier, spamming the scan button all the time would be unnecessary. And local needs to be removed because it detracts from the game. You have to take the benefits into consideration -- sure, removing local will have some disadvantages, but I think its benefits far outweigh those. Finally, also in reference to your "spam the scan button", unless you're a remarkably unskilled 0.0 hunter, you do this anyway all the time. When I'm looking for targets, the scanner is my #1 offensive and defensive tool and I spam it without a second thought. Oh, and when you make a bunch of statements (opinions), you should have some facts or arguments to back them up. Explain WHY** you think removing local won't enhance gameplay, for example. -Edit- Just in case I did make a mistake DGWabbit, I'll list my sources Ooh Shiny alliance kb: http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=705 Aftermath Alliance kb: http://aftermath-alliance.com/killboard/ Divine Retribution kb: (couldn't locate, website down) a+ post ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
DGWabbit Black Lance oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.07.16 18:32:00 - [104] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Rabble 1) KM's only show what was destroyed, not what survived...cloaks have survived on the ravens I popped and there are a few there...thanks for wasting the time sorting through all my kills <3 2) You're not a resident of Stain...so I wouldnt expect you to know which systems are farmed and which players are farmers...just like I wouldnt know...much less care...who's farming your systems. 3) DVRN lived in empire and I hardly played. 4) SOD lived in Deklin and I hardly played there either. 5) The previous KB I posted on is no longer available..it was nuked when the ceo/website admin quit. 6) Spamming the scan button is obviously necessary already to find a target in a system..or..anyone in any system for that matter...pos...conatiner...ships..pods..etc... It's not like local removes the use for a scanner. Brilliant idea there isnt it? You really sucked at tearing apart my post because even though you did 'research'...which kudos to you for spending your time looking up my stats on all those exciting killboards...proved a complete waste of time...Since you had no clue what to look for in the first place. My point is that, removing local would do nothing but add an unneeded complication to a game. Seriously, if there was a radar or scanner that constantly updated every 5 seconds to show who'se approaching my location...then maybe it'd be viable. But that would add more to the HUD that's already taking up a bit of space on my screen...I dont play at stupidly high res's simply because I choose not to and it would prolly lag the client to crap when a blob appeared...which we all know there IS NO LAG/DYSYNCHES in Eve...right???? All this remove local crap is just a waste of time and space. The client isnt ready to handle such a load and the idea up there...I already mentioned it's short comings. As for the reason why empire/loc-sec residents shouldnt post in regards to no local in 0.0...READ THE TOPC..it's discussing Local and 0.0...not empire and 0.0. READING COMPREHENSION AWARD FOR MR. VMIR!!! Nice to see mr Jita there...seems Vmir is using his alt to "A+" his post. Learn to read, both of you.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 18:37:00 - [105] Originally by: DGWabbit rabble so you killed an odd farmer raven or two big deal? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.18 04:48:00 - [106] Originally by: Roger Douglas Remove local?!?! How therefore shall I enjoy the smack? Smack- and laughing at it. The reason for local. constellation? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
theteck	Posted - 2007.07.18 06:07:00 - [107] i dont want local removed but voice added to all local space to talk to the agressor ....
eXtas BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.18 06:16:00 - [108] no local = party time
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.18 14:05:00 - [109] Originally by: eXtas no local = party time yea its a good thing ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:02:00 - [110] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: eXtas no local = party time yea its a good thing I dont think you understand what eXtas was saying. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Red Desire	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:22:00 - [111] Removing local could be fun :) for me anyways. Come on CCP think about it and implement it. Remember 0.0 is for alliance warfare not necesarly for ratters and minners.
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:33:00 - [112] yes lets remove local and how bout we make pvp consentual only in eve, sound good?
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:39:00 - [113] Originally by: Capt Rob yes lets remove local and how bout we make pvp consentual only in eve, sound good? it's good that you aggree on local, but making pvp consentual is completely unrelated topic, post your own thread for that.
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:44:00 - [114] Originally by: DGWabbit My point is that, removing local would do nothing but add an unneeded complication to a game. [/quote It would be to difficult for you, so you don't want it.
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.07.18 16:13:00 - [115] get rid of all local - change it to 'constellation' or even 'region' He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Hunin Minmatar EVE Empowerment League Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.18 16:23:00 - [116] I don't really care if local is there or not. I think the only way it will be harder is for fleet battles. You won't get an instant count on the opposing fleet's strength. Fleet movement will be much harder to track as well. Why won't it matter for ratting and/or mining? 1) All ratter and miners will be fully aligned and move at least 30km away from the warp in point. 2) Hostile warps in. 3) Ratter/miner warps out in 1 sec if fully aligned or 10 sec if not. 4) Hostile drops probes. 5) Ratter/miner either cloaks or checks the gate at 150km bookmark. It will definitely enhance gate camps. Now you have to camp on the jump in point because the hostile knows your strength in the system. With no local you can place mobile bubbles around the warp in gate and gank everyone. It makes gate camping a lot easier. Same way for fleet battles. You just need a covops on the gate and people can trickle in to a station system. The hostiles don't know your real strength even if someone is watching one gate. They don't know if you jumped out another gate. With no local, I think spies will be much more important for alliances to determine when someone is preparing to attack. It will also reduce the ability of covops to spy on enemy fleets because you don't know if they are still in the system or moved to another system. Again you'll spend 1 to 5 minutes probing and/or scanner use before determining nobody is actually in the system. The biggest carebear change I see is probes will increase significantly in value. Personally I think removing local will promote alliances to maintain gate camps. You won't need a dictor or a large bubble for effective gate camps.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.18 16:33:00 - [117] Originally by: Hunin I don't really care if local is there or not. I think the only way it will be harder is for fleet battles. You won't get an instant count on the opposing fleet's strength. Fleet movement will be much harder to track as well. Why won't it matter for ratting and/or mining? 1) All ratter and miners will be fully aligned and move at least 30km away from the warp in point. 2) Hostile warps in. 3) Ratter/miner warps out in 1 sec if fully aligned or 10 sec if not. 4) Hostile drops probes. 5) Ratter/miner either cloaks or checks the gate at 150km bookmark. It will definitely enhance gate camps. Now you have to camp on the jump in point because the hostile knows your strength in the system. With no local you can place mobile bubbles around the warp in gate and gank everyone. It makes gate camping a lot easier. Same way for fleet battles. You just need a covops on the gate and people can trickle in to a station system. The hostiles don't know your real strength even if someone is watching one gate. They don't know if you jumped out another gate. With no local, I think spies will be much more important for alliances to determine when someone is preparing to attack. It will also reduce the ability of covops to spy on enemy fleets because you don't know if they are still in the system or moved to another system. Again you'll spend 1 to 5 minutes probing and/or scanner use before determining nobody is actually in the system. The biggest carebear change I see is probes will increase significantly in value. Personally I think removing local will promote alliances to maintain gate camps. You won't need a dictor or a large bubble for effective gate camps. all good results ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Hunin Minmatar EVE Empowerment League Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.18 16:54:00 - [118] Originally by: SiJira all good results I don't think you've lived in 0.0 recently. Right now gate camps are the worst form of blobbage. A 50+ man gate camp guarantees lag. A 100+ man gate camp guarantees lag and desyncs. By making these gate camps easier and more effective, more people will do that. Then more people will experience lag/desync and more load will be placed on the servers. I think the idea of making a high slot module to make you invisible in local is a cool idea. It will not promote huge gate camps because not everybody can fit them (as pointed out earlier). However it will still be effective in disguising fleet strength and make the BC and BS more stealthy.
Yougot Fubarred	Posted - 2007.07.18 16:55:00 - [119] Edited by: Yougot Fubarred on 18/07/2007 16:56:50 Originally by: Ryas Nia nerf Sijira for useless threads. Well, technically, you CAN get banned for useless threads as they fall under the "spam" definition Whine Whine Cry Go back to playing WoW EVE is too advanced for you
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.07.18 17:41:00 - [120] Make pilots not show in local unless they speak, everything in all regions. First there will be whining, quitting, etc. Then, there will be adaptation and acceptance. Then, there will be new players who never knew the days of local. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
DGWabbit Black Lance oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.07.18 18:19:00 - [121] Edited by: DGWabbit on 18/07/2007 18:19:36 Originally by: DGWabbit My point is that, removing local would do nothing but add an unneeded complication to a game. [/quote It would be to difficult for you, so you don't want it. Not so much it being 'difficult' versus tedious. Even if they removed all the names in local and just left a number...that would be sufficient. But removing it entirely just seems a bit overboard, even with constellation chats..you'll still see numbers and faces, just a broader 'local' and another chat window to have open. It does make the game easier...i'd rather spend 2 seconds knowing if its worth spending 2 minutes warping around looking for a target. I have a life, I prefer not to waste time in a game simply because it 'adds' content in the end =p Most roaming gangs take 2 hours...to spend 4-5 hours for the same result just doesnt feel worth the change. The game was built in with local...yet ccp claimed they didnt intend to make it an intel tool...but that's what it is. Just as I never intended to hurt people's feelings...it happens. If local were removed, despite being in the game since I can remember except when patches borked it up, it would serverely hamper the server community as a whole. It's a tool a variety of people use for their own reasons, i'd be like taking the wheel away from us. People 'adapt' or 'quit'...If you really dont care which of the two people prefer...you might find yourself without much of a game. In the end there are different arguements here...people who carebear, people who pirate, people who play at the corp level, others at the alliance, and others at the alt level. Each want different things, but I'm assuming it's going to stay the way ccp designed it. Otherwise it might bite them in the butt. that one time with no local after rev1 came out was cool, just wish I coulda flown a recon, arazu/curse, at the time :(
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.18 19:55:00 - [122] Originally by: DGWabbit Edited by: DGWabbit on 18/07/2007 18:19:36 Originally by: DGWabbit My point is that, removing local would do nothing but add an unneeded complication to a game. [/quote It would be to difficult for you, so you don't want it. Not so much it being 'difficult' versus tedious. Even if they removed all the names in local and just left a number...that would be sufficient. But removing it entirely just seems a bit overboard, even with constellation chats..you'll still see numbers and faces, just a broader 'local' and another chat window to have open. It does make the game easier...i'd rather spend 2 seconds knowing if its worth spending 2 minutes warping around looking for a target. I have a life, I prefer not to waste time in a game simply because it 'adds' content in the end =p Most roaming gangs take 2 hours...to spend 4-5 hours for the same result just doesnt feel worth the change. The game was built in with local...yet ccp claimed they didnt intend to make it an intel tool...but that's what it is. Just as I never intended to hurt people's feelings...it happens. If local were removed, despite being in the game since I can remember except when patches borked it up, it would serverely hamper the server community as a whole. It's a tool a variety of people use for their own reasons, i'd be like taking the wheel away from us. People 'adapt' or 'quit'...If you really dont care which of the two people prefer...you might find yourself without much of a game. In the end there are different arguements here...people who carebear, people who pirate, people who play at the corp level, others at the alliance, and others at the alt level. Each want different things, but I'm assuming it's going to stay the way ccp designed it. Otherwise it might bite them in the butt. that one time with no local after rev1 came out was cool, just wish I coulda flown a recon, arazu/curse, at the time :( its always the carebears ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Bitchslap	Posted - 2007.07.18 20:26:00 - [123] N O
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 01:24:00 - [124] Originally by: *****slap N O yes ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Maya Rkell Third Grade Ergonomics	Posted - 2007.07.23 01:29:00 - [125] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 23/07/2007 01:32:09 Originally by: Frug How are so many people suddenly against removing local as a spy tool? I thought everyone wanted local nerfed for that. I sure do. No, some of us have a realistic view of the damage it would do. This was VERY heavily reinforced by a brief bug a few years ago which killed off local for a few days. It sucked wind for everyone. Basically, tackling frigs can be on top of you before you can leave unless you are allways perfect alligned in anything larger than a cruiser. And that's assuming 5-second cycle-spamming of the scan button. In practice, scans will often take longer than that anyway (!). It favours hunters, completely. Their prey has a very limited possible number of locations. The only way to protect themselves is to sit a shuttle alt on the gate, and go safe when it sees anything, so the hunters will never, ever see anyone protecting themselves properly. People don't do that now, so there's a chance at least you can catch them. People can and will adopt that method if it's the only possible way to survive. //Maya
Vyyrus Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 01:58:00 - [126] Removing local would be no fun for me don't wanna have to scan every minute for hostile.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:03:00 - [127] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 23/07/2007 02:04:14 Originally by: Maya Rkell It favours hunters, completely. Their prey has a very limited possible number of locations. No it don't Let's say I am cruising around 0.0 looking for targets. When I jump in, I would like to know how many are in local, how many are in the same corp, and how many are known FC's or good gang leaders. If there is no local, you handicap the hunters just as much as the hunted. I say keep local, if you are watching local when a nasty pilot like me comes in, then good job If, you are too busy salvaging your wrecks to notice, then sorry but you are scrammed already Seems balanced I, erm, like kill things and stuff
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:06:00 - [128] Removing local with the game as it is now would kill it (who wants to npc whilst clicking "scan" every 3 seconds?). But eventually yes this would be great - not to remove local but to make it voluntary in 0.0 space. To get this to be 'balanced' however we'd need some kind of active radar that would alert you to a ship bearing down on you in warp, and probably some kind of stargate activation notification as well (not telling you which gate, but that a gate was activated - your sensors are calibrated to detect hyperspatial vortices or some such). So lets say you are ratting in a 0.0 belt and you are 'alone' or alone enough as you can expect without a local count. You get a buzzer to say hyperspatial vortex was detected - so you warp off to a few previously made scan spots near the 3 gates in system. So you detect a cruiser and guess where he's warping to and observe him leaving system. Dandy - back to ratting. Say on the other hand, the same happens but the cruiser is a recon and cloaks so your scans reveal nothing... what do you do - you can either continue ratting and hope for the best, or move to a more secure location/call in support. Our hero decides to stay put and take his chances - then an enemy recon appears next to him in a belt, scrams him and multiple buzzers sound as more hostiles jump in for the kill. By this point in the game cloaked ships will be detectable via a system scanning array, perhaps configured for alliance use (via remote link? mmm luvly) - so if you have sov over a system and can anchor such a module you will be much better off than if you choose a random empty system and try to stay "off the beaten track" - relatively speaking. Using scanning arrays in this way would also prevent people 'clustering' togther in a system to avoid fleets as there is a mechanic to avoid being ganked. It also adds another reason to control a solarsystem - safe ratting/mining. What about the lone pirates? Well you will be at much less of a disadvantage than now when they know for sure you are there and you can only catch the dumb ones or afk ones. But with the mechanics above you would be much better off avoiding sovereign systems of competent alliances. This would also act as a buff to entities that actively control their own space, rather than 'inhabiting' npc regions. Conclusion - Remove local at some point, improve game mechanics first. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:10:00 - [129] Originally by: R3dSh1ft By this point in the game cloaked ships will be detectable via a system scanning array, perhaps configured for alliance use (via remote link? mmm luvly) no this is not an option ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:20:00 - [130] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: R3dSh1ft By this point in the game cloaked ships will be detectable via a system scanning array, perhaps configured for alliance use (via remote link? mmm luvly) no this is not an option thanks for your detailed explanatory post, there is no way i would've understood your complex arguments without such a thorought narrative. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:26:00 - [131] Removing local in 0.0 == removing all 0.0 carebear operations. Result: Economical collapse of all 0.0 alliances (who mostly rely on incomes from refineries to exist) and the end of populated 0.0, bringing with it the end of most pvp, either through lack of participants, or lack of money. So, yeah, the week of fun you'd have absolutely raping a few carebears is totally worth the end of the game.
Disanii Exile.	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:37:00 - [132] Originally by: Elmicker Result: Economical collapse of all 0.0 alliances and the end of populated 0.0 just means that the alliances might have to, dare I say it, defend their space with gate camps. If you think i'm kidding there are alliances out there who defend their space 24/7 with gate camps. Wouldn't even have to be 24/7 just organize times to npc/mine with pvp support. Indeed some sort of scanner fix would have to be implemented, but instantly knowing the number of hostile/friendly in system is overpowered for the hunter AND the hunted imo.
Forever Alone	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:38:00 - [133] Quote: Removing local with the game as it is now would kill it (who wants to npc whilst clicking "scan" every 3 seconds?). I believe that a proper local nerf would include a buff to the scanner. Overview scanner should automatically include same results you would get from manual scanner - meaning all ships in 15 AU range show up on overview, just without extra data that you get when they are in your grid. Local as it is now was never meant to be. Adapt or die
Vyyrus Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:53:00 - [134] Edited by: Vyyrus on 23/07/2007 02:58:49 Edited by: Vyyrus on 23/07/2007 02:56:08 15au is not enough. The scan should be for the whole core system the station is in. No scan should be available for neighboring systems. And for SiJira why do you keep on having to make a thread for the same thing over and over?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 03:30:00 - [135] Originally by: R3dSh1ft Originally by: SiJira Originally by: R3dSh1ft By this point in the game cloaked ships will be detectable via a system scanning array, perhaps configured for alliance use (via remote link? mmm luvly) no this is not an option thanks for your detailed explanatory post, there is no way i would've understood your complex arguments without such a thorought narrative. try to click at the general discussion forum and look through the topics once a week for threads similar to this ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.23 03:35:00 - [136] Originally by: Forever Alone Local as it is now was never meant to be. Adapt or die Oh the irony of this sentence. You tell us that something was "never intended" and then to "adapt or die."
Maya Rkell Third Grade Ergonomics	Posted - 2007.07.23 03:46:00 - [137] Originally by: Vyyrus And for SiJira why do you keep on having to make a thread for the same thing over and over? Because he dosn't understand the implications. Or that the devs have stated several times that they won't change local to work differently in different places, and indeed have no plans to revise it at all.. //Maya
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 03:48:00 - [138] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Vyyrus And for SiJira why do you keep on having to make a thread for the same thing over and over? Because he dosn't understand the implications. Or that the devs have stated several times that they won't change local to work differently in different places, and indeed have no plans to revise it at all.. she - and the devs have said many things and done many others stop posting with your limited knowledge and hypocrisy thank you ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 04:00:00 - [139] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Forever Alone Local as it is now was never meant to be. Adapt or die Oh the irony of this sentence. You tell us that something was "never intended" and then to "adapt or die." What? You think the only reason I want a change is cause I can't adapt to the game as it is?. I am fairly successful in 0.0 pvp and always use local chat for my own advantage when trying to hide or find targets. I know that I will adapt just as successfully when local is nerfed. I want a new challange, I want the game to become fresh again with new opportunities and tactics. Considering that I would have no problem playing with or without local scout took, I can base my decision on "what is better". From purely game logic point of view, local chat should not function as a scout tool to the extent it does now.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.23 05:36:00 - [140] Look, run a simple two person game in the current system with the condition of no local chat where the objective of player 1 is to make money and the objective of player 2 is to destroy player 1. Without local chat? How can player 1 succeed? What if player 2 is flying a recon? Now run the game with multiple player 1's and multiple player 2's. How can the player 1's win? If player 1 cannot win, then what is the point of the game? Is it a game anymore? Local may provide information too quickly, giving player 1 too much time to get away. Especialy with the current tools available to said players[cloaks mainly]. But that is only then an issue with balancing the time it takes to find a person against the time it takes local to update with respect to the desired advantage to be given to either player 1 or player 2. Ideally, local would have a 30 second to 1 minute delay. This would give new entrances into a system time to scan down and attack targets while giving reasonable warning to those attempting to make money. It takes between 1 minute to 2 minutes to scan down a target and tackle them. With a 30 second delay a pirate would have to be lucky to get a good drop on a smart target. With a 1 minute delay, they would just have to be competent. I think something like 45 seconds would be a good compromise, making avoiding pirates difficulty, obscuring information on the size of forces jumping into camps, and still providing reasonable balance between the two participants in the game. But the removal of local in any context not replaced by a universal system that achieves the same goals shifts the balance of play to far towards the attacker. It is already possible to disrupt trade, production, and other operations even without the strength of cloaks, it does not need to be easier.
Lastdon	Posted - 2007.07.23 06:14:00 - [141] I love it when people see one of your posts and rather then replying to yours they make their own. Well they're are good points on both sides, 1 is for the hunter and the other is for the prey. I don't think that local was ever intended to be an means to gather intelligence. On that note let me start with saying that CCP needs to rework this at the universe level. First off there needs to be a means to detect Ships in space such as an situation display. A little display on your screen that can pick up ships at certain distances. Depending on the size of the ship/ Signature, determines the distance at which it is detected. It should be given the ability to detect ships in warp to give some what of an notification that they're inbounds. Also you would have a max range/ base skill. For cloaking / stealth ships they obviously already get a signature reduction, so it could get closer to a target with out detection. Finally this display/RADAR should have a more in depth feature which could detect what type of ship it is or if it is a neutral,war target,Alliance/corp/Fleet. I believe that this should just be the start of things. Later there should be systems that could be explored. These systems shouldn't shown up on the star map till you have explored them yourself. This allows for more alliances to move out to 0.0 space. This also allows people to truly have hidden POS that could be their capital with out fear of reprisal by the few dominate alliances who control the North,South,or other part. With out real RECON conducted they would truly have to fight their way to you, since Inell gathering is no longer automated but conducted by the players.
Zalathar Minmatar Biometaloid INC	Posted - 2007.07.23 06:37:00 - [142] a. CCP does not want to scare people away from 0.0, so they wont nerf local, as it scares people away from 0.0 and lowsec b. Gates would log who comes through them. c. Remeber the mass wining when their was no local? d This game should be fun, not a matter of spamming the scanner Originally by: Kagura Nikon Local is the main cause of BLOBAGE... the fact that you know exactly how many your enemy has estimulate you to brign a few more to be sure to outnumber them. They see that and do same etc.. nerf local and FC will have to take more chances and more fun will happen. Controlling the borders is easy. Just keep constellation chat, its enough for that. lol, that is just wrong. If you dont know whats there, make a bigger blob. safety in numbers concept. Blobs will become bigger, and roam around everywhere, patrolling, and detracting from a true war effort. ~~~~~~ mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!" ~~~~~~ eeeeeekk - Deckard eeeeee...K -Darth Patches gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge you soo pretty I think you're stunningly handsome and let me just say that you're wearing that dead parrot on your shoulder in a particularly dashing way today. -Hango Your using up all the space hango! - Timmeh
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 06:52:00 - [143] Originally by: Zalathar a. CCP does not want to scare people away from 0.0, so they wont nerf local, as it scares people away from 0.0 and lowsec b. Gates would log who comes through them. c. Remeber the mass wining when their was no local? d This game should be fun, not a matter of spamming the scanner Originally by: Kagura Nikon Local is the main cause of BLOBAGE... the fact that you know exactly how many your enemy has estimulate you to brign a few more to be sure to outnumber them. They see that and do same etc.. nerf local and FC will have to take more chances and more fun will happen. Controlling the borders is easy. Just keep constellation chat, its enough for that. lol, that is just wrong. If you dont know whats there, make a bigger blob. safety in numbers concept. Blobs will become bigger, and roam around everywhere, patrolling, and detracting from a true war effort. yes yes everything will make blobs bigger - no really i dont think you read the thread it has nothing to do with losec ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.07.23 07:01:00 - [144] Local shows the local count, but not who is in local. Tbh this would be the most reasonable solution. Complete removal of local is just unreasonable and please don't even think about it...
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 07:10:00 - [145] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Local shows the local count, but not who is in local. Tbh this would be the most reasonable solution. Complete removal of local is just unreasonable and please don't even think about it... What is so unreasonable about it? Removing local as scout tool can be complemented with a boost to automatic Overview scanner - making it work in 15 AU range for example. Just think how hard it is for hunter to find prey in system with POS and many ships at the POS. Those ships are like decoys, the hunter won't know for sure if they are real players or just pilotless ships. Local nerf only really hurts chinese isk farmers and those who operate like isk farmers - meaning solo 0.0 spawn chaining, while being in noob corp and completely disregarding local alliances and every human being in the area. Local nerf would force people to cooperate more in order to maximize their success.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.23 07:29:00 - [146] Originally by: Ephemeron . Just think how hard it is for hunter to find prey in system with POS and many ships at the POS. Really really easy. Ships at POS only show up when you point your directional scanner at a moon. Ships that arent show up when you point your directional scanner anywhere else. Ships that are empty and not at a POS are either A: worthless or B: Free An automatic overview scanner seems really great until you realize that some ships can warp while cloaked.
Vyyrus Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 07:30:00 - [147] No local nerf would give gankers the ability now to be twice as invincible even with cloaks. Its never going to change so stop making topics about it. There is no sticky on local nerf so even dev's don't care.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 08:14:00 - [148] Originally by: Vyyrus No local nerf would give gankers the ability now to be twice as invincible even with cloaks. Its never going to change so stop making topics about it. There is no sticky on local nerf so even dev's don't care. if there was a sticky posts would be there - this is general discussion and if you dont like the idea and have nothing to say the x is at top right ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.23 08:21:00 - [149] Originally by: Goumindong An automatic overview scanner seems really great until you realize that some ships can warp while cloaked. Yeah, that would mean that some people might be able to set up some kind of a surprise attack in an expensive ship that has devoted a highslot to a cloak. Shocking stuff Meanwhile, the pro-ratter and pro-miner groups still don't seem to have an awareness of just how badly removing local would hurt roaming ganksquads. Recruitment FAQ
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 08:31:00 - [150] Originally by: BluOrange Originally by: Goumindong An automatic overview scanner seems really great until you realize that some ships can warp while cloaked. Yeah, that would mean that some people might be able to set up some kind of a surprise attack in an expensive ship that has devoted a highslot to a cloak. Shocking stuff Meanwhile, the pro-ratter and pro-miner groups still don't seem to have an awareness of just how badly removing local would hurt roaming ganksquads. to guys like goum 0.0 is not relentless and dangerous its where you isk farm and you deserve safety for - uhm well he never explained that - all he said was if you have a group in 0.0 you deserve safety from anythign except a force significantly bigger ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Ssoraszh Tzarszh Minmatar Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.07.23 08:37:00 - [151] Removing local will only aid the 'gankers'. I'm up for removing local IF All map statistics 'Jumps in last hour' 'Pilots in space' 'Pilots docked' 'ships destroyed' 'npc's destroyed' are also removed. That will take away ANY tool to find people and will make searching and running away equaly hard. unless your prepared to agree with that, go away.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 08:45:00 - [152] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Ephemeron . Just think how hard it is for hunter to find prey in system with POS and many ships at the POS. Really really easy. Ships at POS only show up when you point your directional scanner at a moon. Ships that arent show up when you point your directional scanner anywhere else. Ships that are empty and not at a POS are either A: worthless or B: Free An automatic overview scanner seems really great until you realize that some ships can warp while cloaked. And while the hunter is busy scanning belts with directional scanner, the carebear has already been alerted by seeing a new ship appear on his 15 AU Overview scanner. Carebear has a very good chance of escaping. Many people who are against local nerf tend to make the point that any change to local that takes away from complete safety of solo ratting in 0.0 is a bad change. Yes, local nerf is a nerf to 0.0 solo ratters. Right now they have it too easy. Nobody is supposed to enjoy 100% safety in 0.0, especially while solo and hostile to every alliance that owns the space. Yes, you will die once in a while. It's okay to die once in a while. This is a game where people frequently lose ships. Don't be such pussies about it. You'll still make good money if you adapt to changes
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:18:00 - [153] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: R3dSh1ft Originally by: SiJira Originally by: R3dSh1ft By this point in the game cloaked ships will be detectable via a system scanning array, perhaps configured for alliance use (via remote link? mmm luvly) no this is not an option thanks for your detailed explanatory post, there is no way i would've understood your complex arguments without such a thorought narrative. try to click at the general discussion forum and look through the topics once a week for threads similar to this So your basis for saying its never going to happen is the whining of others on the forum? Some facts for you: The guy in charge of balance 'TomB' replied to a question on probes after they were released, saying that yes - probes for detecting cloaked ships were in the works. And Oveur has said many times that he does not like the way local is used as an intellingence tool. So what were your arguments exactly? Because I'm still flummoxed. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:20:00 - [154] Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh Removing local will only aid the 'gankers'. I'm up for removing local IF All map statistics 'Jumps in last hour' 'Pilots in space' 'Pilots docked' 'ships destroyed' 'npc's destroyed' are also removed. That will take away ANY tool to find people and will make searching and running away equaly hard. unless your prepared to agree with that, go away. thats fine - thats the point of removing local ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:24:00 - [155] Originally by: R3dSh1ft So your basis for saying its never going to happen is the whining of others on the forum? Some facts for you: The guy in charge of balance 'TomB' replied to a question on probes after they were released, saying that yes - probes for detecting cloaked ships were in the works. And Oveur has said many times that he does not like the way local is used as an intellingence tool. So what were your arguments exactly? Because I'm still flummoxed. yes it has also been said by them that specialized cloaks will - not - be scannable - probably - or detectable - all others not using the best cloak will be eventually but it is getting done the right way and not coming out within a week just because of some whiners im not sure you even clicked on the link cause then it seems you think anyone who posts in gd is whining and then it means none of what you post has any sense to it at all ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:32:00 - [156] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: R3dSh1ft So your basis for saying its never going to happen is the whining of others on the forum? Some facts for you: The guy in charge of balance 'TomB' replied to a question on probes after they were released, saying that yes - probes for detecting cloaked ships were in the works. And Oveur has said many times that he does not like the way local is used as an intellingence tool. So what were your arguments exactly? Because I'm still flummoxed. yes it has also been said by them that specialized cloaks will - not - be scannable - probably - or detectable - all others not using the best cloak will be eventually but it is getting done the right way and not coming out within a week just because of some whiners im not sure you even clicked on the link cause then it seems you think anyone who posts in gd is whining and then it means none of what you post has any sense to it at all Yep, i clicked it, and i read your other thread - i had seen the thread before and mostly ignored it because i didnt agree, now i see the kind of character that you are i will stop posting in your threads because you don't seem to want to have a productive discussion. I don't think everybody in GD is whining, I just think you are. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Ssoraszh Tzarszh Minmatar Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:34:00 - [157] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh Removing local will only aid the 'gankers'. I'm up for removing local IF All map statistics 'Jumps in last hour' 'Pilots in space' 'Pilots docked' 'ships destroyed' 'npc's destroyed' are also removed. That will take away ANY tool to find people and will make searching and running away equaly hard. unless your prepared to agree with that, go away. thats fine - thats the point of removing local Somehow i don't believe you. You go about this like you dont care thus either you dont live in 0.0 or you only have to play the hunter role there. You have some nice isk thing going on in empire? A lot of people rat in 0.0 and yes while its sometimes safer than hanging around in empire it is also the only way to make some decent isk unless you have grinded missions in a past live and like lag a lot. If local is removed, but for example the map tools for finding people of their activity is not there will be no more balance. People who need some isk to afford their t2 fittings or capital ships will be ganked relentlessly as only thos who are skilled enough to rat in cruiser sized ships or fully pvp kitted ships will be able to rat _some_. Killboards will have a field day, and vagabonds and curses will rise 400% in price as everyone and their monkey will want one. As you call yourself 'Hunters' i see very little will to actualy 'hunt' but only the reversed evolution of 'i want my kill, and i want it served on a silver platter'. I hunt, and I enjoy hunting for the hunt. I actually like when attacked that someone flee's sometiems i even hunt without fitting a scrambler. This game has way too mutch one sided battles allready. If someone gets away, thats a win for me. No killmail, but i held the field. I know that, the other guy knows it. If you cant enjoy the game as it is, cancel your subscriotion, and go play "Fury" its like quake with magic and swords no hassle pvp only and no grinding no carebear actions required. Hunters, ha, carebears i call you who whine to have the game changed to meet their limited vision.
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:36:00 - [158] The minute we gain some remote sensor tools to check on gates or that we can tell beyond a Whrr! of a gate being activated, then maybe just maybe we can get rid of local. But then anything that cloak warps would be broken beyond belief. No offense, Devs may have stated local in 0.0 is an unintentional side effect, but I can't see 0.0 being even remotely the same. Especially given even secure mining and ratting, is absolutely the most boring thing in the world. Let alone not even close to as effective as it should be, if its split between the actual ratter and the guard. Tell you what? the minute they make dozens of changes of modules, ships, and weapons that allow effective ratting and PvP action in one ship, (including level 4 missions), then we'll see about removing local in 0.0. Until then, Just rot and whine, it won't happen. Another one bites the dust.
barvo 7th Space Cavalry YouWhat	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:58:00 - [159] Edited by: barvo on 23/07/2007 09:59:55 Some ... uhhh ..."misguided" quotes from this thread. Originally by: Kagura Nikon Local is the main cause of BLOBAGE... the fact that you know exactly how many your enemy has estimulate you to brign a few more to be sure to outnumber them. They see that and do same etc.. Wrong. If I don't know the enemy has twenty ships, am I going to jump in with ten, or am I going to wait until I have fifty, just in case my enemy has fifty too? You underestimate people's cautiousness. Originally by: northwesten I think Local should be nerfed in 0.0 as well. I mean It be great for small corps and gangs because they just have a covop and fly around and find a farmer. Also it make it alot more interesting. and give covo ops more roles to play a part in 0.0! You've not flown a covops for an 0.0 alliance have you? There's plenty you can do already :) Originally by: too many people, sadly No local is teh win 4 huntin teh macro ratterz!!1eleventyone You honestly think that they are not capable of having a covops alt sit on a gate in look range, and when the gate fires (and the screen goes all white) the macro commands the others to cloak? Seriously, this is the LAMEST of all the reasons to nerf local. The only thing that would be nerfed by this is the casual ratter who needs to earn some isk, not the macros. Originally by: SasRipper EVE IS A PVP GAME! Local is having a negativtive affect on pvp therefore it will not be removed / changed its only a matter of time. I don't understand what you're saying, maybe it is irony or whatever. But I'd like to point out that local has been in the game for YEARS, and there are many other things that are having FAR more impact on PVP in this game than local. If local is your problem, then you're really not seeing a lot of EVE yourself. In my view, removing local will leave everyone spamming the scanner button every 5 seconds, and people will write macros for that too. The population of lowsec will plummet, pirates won't be able to earn a living there anymore given that it will take 10 minutes to check a system instead of 1 minute, and those that they do check will be empty. It will kill roaming gangs too, because nobody wants to be sat in a system for 10 minutes while the scouts look over the next system to try to find targets, it will kill casual ratters, push the price of named gear through the roof. It will encourage blobs, because if your forward scout can't determine how many hostiles are in system you have to fear the worst. And no, you can't find out how many hostiles are in system using the directional scanner, if people are smart enough to rename their ships. Those of you calling for local to be nerfed think this will improve PVP - well, if it does get nerfed, I think you'll find you're so, so wrong.
Maximillian Power Minmatar WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.07.23 10:03:00 - [160] It would be cool if local remained as is - but you could genuinely sneak into enemy territory. Say perhaps - instead of using a stargate - you use the "pre-stargate" travel mechanism which takes time. As in go make a cup of tea, mow the lawn, clean the kitchen, you have arrived at your destination kind of time. Avoiding the stargate network and letting yourself truly sneak into enemy territory. Would add some nice tactical advantages to the game - without disrupting the status quo too much. -------------------------------- So....
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.23 10:42:00 - [161] Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh Removing local will only aid the 'gankers'. I'm up for removing local IF All map statistics 'Jumps in last hour' 'Pilots in space' 'Pilots docked' 'ships destroyed' 'npc's destroyed' are also removed. That will take away ANY tool to find people and will make searching and running away equaly hard. unless your prepared to agree with that, go away. I agree to those terms (as I did last time I took part in a 'nerf local' thread). Recruitment FAQ
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.23 10:46:00 - [162] Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh I hunt, and I enjoy hunting for the hunt. I actually like when attacked that someone flee's sometiems i even hunt without fitting a scrambler. This game has way too mutch one sided battles allready. If someone gets away, thats a win for me. No killmail, but i held the field. I know that, the other guy knows it. Very cool. o7 Quote: If you cant enjoy the game as it is, cancel your subscriotion, and go play "Fury" its like quake with magic and swords no hassle pvp only and no grinding no carebear actions required. Hunters, ha, carebears i call you who whine to have the game changed to meet their limited vision. That's pushing it. I'm enjoying the game as it is, I just want 0.0 to be dark, scary, harsh, unforgiving, dangerous and uncertain. That way, when I keep operating there, I can tell myself that I'm hardcore Recruitment FAQ
Cpt Branko Guardian Heroes	Posted - 2007.07.23 11:06:00 - [163] Originally by: BluOrange Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh Removing local will only aid the 'gankers'. I'm up for removing local IF All map statistics 'Jumps in last hour' 'Pilots in space' 'Pilots docked' 'ships destroyed' 'npc's destroyed' are also removed. That will take away ANY tool to find people and will make searching and running away equaly hard. unless your prepared to agree with that, go away. I agree to those terms (as I did last time I took part in a 'nerf local' thread). I like / support all this.
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.23 11:57:00 - [164] Originally by: Strepsils Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Princess Voodoo shut the hell up with this idea, it's stupid this is the best reason to implement it cause you whine! Oh, the irony ironic indeed. you whine about an idea, then if someone says your idea is silly, you come up with the response "you're whining about this being a bad idea, thus it should be implimented"!? uh. logic way over ====> thataway! personally, i don't like this idea one bit, and i agree with the "border control/registering with authorities" argument for why it happens. ========================================== Iy please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.07.23 12:36:00 - [165] Originally by: Arhes Branwin Alright, you can remove local from 0.0 when I can turn jump gates on and off..If I have soverignty why would I want people moving in and out of my space (or my constellation) when I didn't have the forces to prepare for them. /signed. If you want to come into my space, you gotto slowboat 50 rl years to get to the system. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:30:00 - [166] Originally by: Ephemeron What is so unreasonable about it? Removing local as scout tool can be complemented with a boost to automatic Overview scanner - making it work in 15 AU range for example. You do, of course, realise that a covert ops or interceptor could cover that 15AU in approximately 1.1 seconds? Good luck aligning in your mining barge! No local = no carebears.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:35:00 - [167] Originally by: Elmicker You do, of course, realise that a covert ops or interceptor could cover that 15AU in approximately 1.1 seconds? Good luck aligning in your mining barge! No local = no carebears. That is false. It takes cov ops or inty at least 10 seconds to accelerate, enter warp, exit warp, then lock. The game won't let inty start lock before ship fully stopped warping. This is not counting the time it takes to use directional scanner. The 0.0 ratters will die more often, but hardly all the time.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:40:00 - [168] Edited by: Ephemeron on 23/07/2007 14:42:13 Quote: Mostly the risk in 0.0 is allready at the prey, and not the hunter atm. As a lot less hunters get actually killed than they kill in prey. Completely false. I'm certain that if CCP decide to investigate, they will find that people who actively seek pvp die much more often than the carebears who want to make isk and avoid pvp. I'm willing to bet $1000 on it. Currently, by use of local, stabs, cloaks, the isk farmer can operate with about 95% safety in 0.0. That 5% risk being pure dumb luck of random bad stuff happening.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:03:00 - [169] Edited by: SiJira on 23/07/2007 15:04:39 Originally by: R3dSh1ft i will stop posting in your threads because you don't seem to want to have a productive discussion. I don't think everybody in GD is whining, I just think you are. saying things like that and not contributing to the topic at hand is fairly useless - if you want personal insults i think you need to go to caod Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh If local is removed, but for example the map tools for finding people of their activity is not there will be no more balance. As you call yourself 'Hunters' i see very little will to actualy 'hunt' but only the reversed evolution of 'i want my kill, and i want it served on a silver platter'. the tools should be removed to - they are a direct log of local - its hunters and hunted and i dont think you have actually tried to scan blindly for dozens of systems at a time... Originally by: Kage Psychodin The minute we gain some remote sensor tools to check on gates or that we can tell beyond a Whrr! of a gate being activated, then maybe just maybe we can get rid of local. But then anything that cloak warps would be broken beyond belief. No offense, Devs may have stated local in 0.0 is an unintentional side effect, but I can't see 0.0 being even remotely the same. Especially given even secure mining and ratting, is absolutely the most boring thing in the world. Let alone not even close to as effective as it should be, if its split between the actual ratter and the guard. Tell you what? the minute they make dozens of changes of modules, ships, and weapons that allow effective ratting and PvP action in one ship, (including level 4 missions), then we'll see about removing local in 0.0. Until then, Just rot and whine, it won't happen. where to start with this one - if local is removed according to this idea then you dont get a replacement - you dont get to hear a whirr or a flash or a warning that someone is approaching gate from the system next to you - the safety net is removed and its like everyone is using a claok - consider yourself lucky and put yourself in the other guys shoes to see how hard it is to find you - it is supposed to be dark and dangerous and local makes this dark and dangerous place like a street alley lit up by stadium lights i agree that secure mining and ratting is not as effective as it should be - the rats are too easy to tank - just remember that this is a mmo game and you dont get to do everything effectively in just 1 type of ship Originally by: Ephemeron Completely false. I'm certain that if CCP decide to investigate, they will find that people who actively seek pvp die much more often than the carebears who want to make isk and avoid pvp. I'm willing to bet $1000 on it. Currently, by use of local, stabs, cloaks, the isk farmer can operate with about 95% safety in 0.0. That 5% risk being pure dumb luck of random bad stuff happening. QFT ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:27:00 - [170] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Elmicker You do, of course, realise that a covert ops or interceptor could cover that 15AU in approximately 1.1 seconds? Good luck aligning in your mining barge! No local = no carebears. That is false. It takes cov ops or inty at least 10 seconds to accelerate, enter warp, exit warp, then lock. The game won't let inty start lock before ship fully stopped warping. This is not counting the time it takes to use directional scanner. The 0.0 ratters will die more often, but hardly all the time. you mean they dont insta appear? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Reachok Amarr Omiracon Technologies	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:42:00 - [171] Jump gates are supposedly manned. And if not they still have computers that supposedly log gate activity. It's not a hard stretch of imagination that the gate builders originally provided local gate activity to all pod pilots as a free service. The 30 minute average pilots change was unrealistic, as communication in the Eve cluster is instantaneous. If you remove local, then remove the pilots in space map feature altogether. Personally, I'd like to keep local - AND have the map updated instantly as it should be (storyline mechanics wise). But, won't matter either way to me, I'll keep playing.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:46:00 - [172] Originally by: Reachok Jump gates are supposedly manned. And if not they still have computers that supposedly log gate activity. It's not a hard stretch of imagination that the gate builders originally provided local gate activity to all pod pilots as a free service. The 30 minute average pilots change was unrealistic, as communication in the Eve cluster is instantaneous. If you remove local, then remove the pilots in space map feature altogether. Personally, I'd like to keep local - AND have the map updated instantly as it should be (storyline mechanics wise). But, won't matter either way to me, I'll keep playing. If I was in a massive, militaristic corporation that was so powerful it could control entire constellations of space, I would probably do something about these douchebag gate staffers who refuse to stop reporting all our identities and numbers to everyone in the goddamn system. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Ssoraszh Tzarszh Minmatar Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:58:00 - [173] Originally by: Ephemeron Edited by: Ephemeron on 23/07/2007 14:42:13 Quote: Mostly the risk in 0.0 is allready at the prey, and not the hunter atm. As a lot less hunters get actually killed than they kill in prey. Completely false. I'm certain that if CCP decide to investigate, they will find that people who actively seek pvp die much more often than the carebears who want to make isk and avoid pvp. I'm willing to bet $1000 on it. Currently, by use of local, stabs, cloaks, the isk farmer can operate with about 95% safety in 0.0. That 5% risk being pure dumb luck of random bad stuff happening. You sir are wrong, not every ratter will log out and has stabs and cloaks fitted and flies ravens. While the farmers are a problem they are a separate issue and in no way justify the change you want to push through. And as you pointed out local is hardly the main problem with these, Stabs, cloaks to an extend and the logoff timer, etc are doing more for these survivals than the local window. Your agenda while hidden to most is to get cheap kills, small chance you will ever get caught again if local was removed. Covert ops tackler and your main character trailing going in for the kill. A tactic allready used effectively. Might i point you to your own killstats? without looking i will bet that you kill a lot more than you lose. At least that is what ypu make us believe. Are you saying now that you lose more ships than that you kill?
Shin Ra Origin Unknown.	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:58:00 - [174] The problem is, how would you ever find anyone to kill? You would literally have to scan every bit of every system. Something like a delay before you show up in local would be nice. Probably around 90% of ppl in 0.0 space will log as soon as a new person jumps into local. Its very annoying since npcs don't give aggro (hint hint)
Ssoraszh Tzarszh Minmatar Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.07.23 17:28:00 - [175] Originally by: Shin Ra The problem is, how would you ever find anyone to kill? You would literally have to scan every bit of every system. Something like a delay before you show up in local would be nice. Probably around 90% of ppl in 0.0 space will log as soon as a new person jumps into local. Its very annoying since npcs don't give aggro (hint hint) Yup, and thats hard to do aint it? Matter of fact is that people who are ratting are busy doing that not looking at map stats all day. A hunter now only needs to download a copy of truesec, look at ratkills/people in space/jumps last hour to determine a good target. ofc, this does not mean 100% guarantee kill, but remove local and the chance to get away becomes miniscule agains a covert ops or recon. Warp in bad guy after ratter is scrambled and 100% killrate against 0% loss is generated. If you truly want 0.0 to be dark, also remove all otehr stats aand you have to _look_ for people manualy. It will still be easy as **** as tehre are only ever so few good ratting systems anyway. The aggro timer would be a nice addition, if you mean logof timer, and i assume you do. if that would be the same as the normal shoot player = 15 minutes noone would ever log off inside a belt/plex.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.23 18:49:00 - [176] Originally by: BluOrange Originally by: Goumindong An automatic overview scanner seems really great until you realize that some ships can warp while cloaked. Yeah, that would mean that some people might be able to set up some kind of a surprise attack in an expensive ship that has devoted a highslot to a cloak. Shocking stuff Meanwhile, the pro-ratter and pro-miner groups still don't seem to have an awareness of just how badly removing local would hurt roaming ganksquads. Are you unable to freaking use the directional scanner? Lord, its not that hard. It takes 2 freaking minutes at the most to find and scan down a target at a belt. It takes 0 seconds to 30 seconds to confirm a target is in system. It takes much more effort to defend against such an attack. Especialy with cloaks. And oh lord, the whole entire high slot. What a sacrifice!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:06:00 - [177] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: BluOrange Originally by: Goumindong An automatic overview scanner seems really great until you realize that some ships can warp while cloaked. Yeah, that would mean that some people might be able to set up some kind of a surprise attack in an expensive ship that has devoted a highslot to a cloak. Shocking stuff Meanwhile, the pro-ratter and pro-miner groups still don't seem to have an awareness of just how badly removing local would hurt roaming ganksquads. Are you unable to freaking use the directional scanner? Lord, its not that hard. It takes 2 freaking minutes at the most to find and scan down a target at a belt. It takes 0 seconds to 30 seconds to confirm a target is in system. It takes much more effort to defend against such an attack. Especialy with cloaks. And oh lord, the whole entire high slot. What a sacrifice! yes it is a sacrifice believe it or not ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 23:30:00 - [178] Edited by: SiJira on 23/07/2007 23:30:00 Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh Yup, and thats hard to do aint it? Matter of fact is that people who are ratting are busy doing that not looking at map stats all day. A hunter now only needs to download a copy of truesec, look at ratkills/people in space/jumps last hour to determine a good target. ofc, this does not mean 100% guarantee kill, but remove local and the chance to get away becomes miniscule agains a covert ops or recon. Warp in bad guy after ratter is scrambled and 100% killrate against 0% loss is generated. If you truly want 0.0 to be dark, also remove all otehr stats aand you have to _look_ for people manualy. It will still be easy as **** as tehre are only ever so few good ratting systems anyway. The aggro timer would be a nice addition, if you mean logof timer, and i assume you do. if that would be the same as the normal shoot player = 15 minutes noone would ever log off inside a belt/plex. removing local would make 0.0 harder for both the hunter and hunted - thats the idea work for your rewards ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.23 23:39:00 - [179] Originally by: SiJira Edited by: SiJira on 23/07/2007 23:30:00 Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh Yup, and thats hard to do aint it? Matter of fact is that people who are ratting are busy doing that not looking at map stats all day. A hunter now only needs to download a copy of truesec, look at ratkills/people in space/jumps last hour to determine a good target. ofc, this does not mean 100% guarantee kill, but remove local and the chance to get away becomes miniscule agains a covert ops or recon. Warp in bad guy after ratter is scrambled and 100% killrate against 0% loss is generated. If you truly want 0.0 to be dark, also remove all otehr stats aand you have to _look_ for people manualy. It will still be easy as ** as tehre are only ever so few good ratting systems anyway. The aggro timer would be a nice addition, if you mean logof timer, and i assume you do. if that would be the same as the normal shoot player = 15 minutes noone would ever log off inside a belt/plex. removing local would make 0.0 harder for both the hunter and hunted - thats the idea work for your rewards This is false. Since you seem too dense to get this the first time, lets go over it again. The hunter/hunted relationship is a competitive game with two players. Any instance that makes it harder for one to win, must necessarily make it easier for the other to win**. You cannot make it harder for both parties at the same time when only affecting a directly competitive mechanism. It would be much easier for the hunter. Tons easier for the hunter. Now, the game is how quickly the hunted is able to leave system/cloak/log/safe. Without local the hunter still has a method with which to detect ships, but the hunted does not. This is because the hunter is targeting a specific instance and the hunted is not.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 23:45:00 - [180] Originally by: Goumindong This is false. Since you seem too dense to get this the first time, lets go over it again. The hunter/hunted relationship is a competitive game with two players. Any instance that makes it harder for one to win, must necessarily make it easier for the other to win. You cannot make it harder for both parties at the same time when only affecting a directly competitive mechanism. It would be much easier for the hunter. Tons easier for the hunter. Now, the game is how quickly the hunted is able to leave system/cloak/log/safe. Without local the hunter still has a method with which to detect ships, but the hunted does not. This is because the hunter is targeting a specific instance and the hunted is not. you havent had much experience in hunting - have you? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.24 00:45:00 - [181] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Goumindong This is false. Since you seem too dense to get this the first time, lets go over it again. The hunter/hunted relationship is a competitive game with two players. Any instance that makes it harder for one to win, must necessarily make it easier for the other to win. You cannot make it harder for both parties at the same time when only affecting a directly competitive mechanism. It would be much easier for the hunter. Tons easier for the hunter. Now, the game is how quickly the hunted is able to leave system/cloak/log/safe. Without local the hunter still has a method with which to detect ships, but the hunted does not. This is because the hunter is targeting a specific instance and the hunted is not. you havent had much experience in hunting - have you? Clearly more than you.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.24 02:31:00 - [182] Originally by: Shin Ra The problem is, how would you ever find anyone to kill? You would literally have to scan every bit of every system. Something like a delay before you show up in local would be nice. Probably around 90% of ppl in 0.0 space will log as soon as a new person jumps into local. Its very annoying since npcs don't give aggro (hint hint) Finding people to kill wouldn't be much of a problem. Remember that the vast majority of PvP in EVE happens on the gates. Gates are easy to check. People already have lots of tactics to scout gates. It will be harder to find farmers at belts, but this isn't the main source of PvP and those who really want to find them, will do so if they put some effort into it. All the popular player hang outs are already known. Smart people already know where to look for targets.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.24 02:31:00 - [183] Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: removing local would make 0.0 harder for both the hunter and hunted - thats the idea To elaborate on that idea a bit - the reason why it becomes harder for both hunter and hunted is because both of them will need to learn new methods on intelligence gathering. Things become more complex for both as they can't rely on local chat to spoon feed you information. Both types, hunter and hunted, can get advantages by doing information gathering better/faster than the other. It depends on what kind of effort or team work they put into it. and thats what a mmorpg is all about of course the ratters and miners could just prepare ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.24 04:20:00 - [184] Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: removing local would make 0.0 harder for both the hunter and hunted - thats the idea To elaborate on that idea a bit - the reason why it becomes harder for both hunter and hunted is because both of them will need to learn new methods on intelligence gathering. Things become more complex for both as they can't rely on local chat to spoon feed you information. Both types, hunter and hunted, can get advantages by doing information gathering better/faster than the other. It depends on what kind of effort or team work they put into it. Without modifying not competitive mechanisms within the system it is impossible to design a Zero sum game where any change can make the game more advantagous to both parties The hunter wins by inflicting loss on the prey. The hunted wins by avoiding the pray and profiting. These are conflicting goals that cannot be reconsiled. You are presenting an impossibility.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.24 04:22:00 - [185] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: removing local would make 0.0 harder for both the hunter and hunted - thats the idea To elaborate on that idea a bit - the reason why it becomes harder for both hunter and hunted is because both of them will need to learn new methods on intelligence gathering. Things become more complex for both as they can't rely on local chat to spoon feed you information. Both types, hunter and hunted, can get advantages by doing information gathering better/faster than the other. It depends on what kind of effort or team work they put into it. and thats what a mmorpg is all about of course the ratters and miners could just prepare Posting a link to "the urban dictionary" is not an arguement.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.24 04:23:00 - [186] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: removing local would make 0.0 harder for both the hunter and hunted - thats the idea To elaborate on that idea a bit - the reason why it becomes harder for both hunter and hunted is because both of them will need to learn new methods on intelligence gathering. Things become more complex for both as they can't rely on local chat to spoon feed you information. Both types, hunter and hunted, can get advantages by doing information gathering better/faster than the other. It depends on what kind of effort or team work they put into it. Without modifying not competitive mechanisms within the system it is impossible to design a Zero sum game where any change can make the game more advantagous to both parties The hunter wins by inflicting loss on the prey. The hunted wins by avoiding the pray and profiting. These are conflicting goals that cannot be reconsiled. You are presenting an impossibility. well eve is an inwardly expanding game... and if they can't find any good reason for why there is a list of everyone in the system being fed to you in ANY space. they will have to alter it to work in a space sandbox setting. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.24 04:51:00 - [187] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: removing local would make 0.0 harder for both the hunter and hunted - thats the idea To elaborate on that idea a bit - the reason why it becomes harder for both hunter and hunted is because both of them will need to learn new methods on intelligence gathering. Things become more complex for both as they can't rely on local chat to spoon feed you information. Both types, hunter and hunted, can get advantages by doing information gathering better/faster than the other. It depends on what kind of effort or team work they put into it. Without modifying not competitive mechanisms within the system it is impossible to design a Zero sum game where any change can make the game more advantagous to both parties The hunter wins by inflicting loss on the prey. The hunted wins by avoiding the pray and profiting. These are conflicting goals that cannot be reconsiled. You are presenting an impossibility. well eve is an inwardly expanding game... and if they can't find any good reason for why there is a list of everyone in the system being fed to you in ANY space. they will have to alter it to work in a space sandbox setting. "RP" reasons are very easy. 1. All stargates are owned and operated by CONCORD 2. All stargates log the identifying transceviers of incoming ships and broadcast that information to all other ships who have not left the area by any of the designated stargates. Design reasons are very easy 1. Lack of a system by which to identify people entering the system in a timely manner would result in a widly increased number of ship losses for ratters, even aginst casual or sporadic pirates. The ability of hostile forces to shut down space for production makes the space, on a whole less profitable and more dangerous that higher security space. The rewards of the system do not support such increased risk. As well, the rewards cannot easily be increased to necessitate such risk without obsoleting low and high security space and making very low true sec systems much more profitable than they ought to be. 2. The lack of local makes it impossible to defend a system, constellation, or region in any reasonable manner. Necessary to control a system would require 23/7 gate camps on all constellation choke points, and for these camps to never be busted 3. The lack of an ability to track hostiles in friendly space mean that defensive fleets once formed after taking the hit, would be unable to reasonable pursue and engage the Hostiles. 4. The presense of cloaking devices both standard and cov-ops makes the game even harder for those who wish to hold and defend space. Now not only not being able to detect the ships with the directional scanner they would be unable to detect them in any way. This is a huge boon to the player who does not need to be decloaked to achieve their goal. While the hunter can be cloaked in the execution of its goal, the prey cannot. Again, this makes following fleets impossible. A attacking fleet could make one jump, safe, cloak, wait for the defenders to pass by, and then resume the attack[since those that are running have the advantage of choosing the terrain] Enough reasons?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.24 05:17:00 - [188] goum is a fine example of a 0.0 carebear ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Aldir Rundal Gallente The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.07.24 05:25:00 - [189] Originally by: SiJira goum is a fine example of a 0.0 carebear Haha, He presents a clear and honest argument that bests yours and you care only to insult him. Congrats goum, you win. Recruiting
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.24 05:27:00 - [190] Originally by: Aldir Rundal Originally by: SiJira goum is a fine example of a 0.0 carebear Haha, He presents a clear and honest argument that bests yours and you care only to insult him. Congrats goum, you win. you mean where he argues with himself cause he skips all the opposing points or twists them out of context? yea he wins - and you are a successful man for sure - i hear flattery gets you far ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Aldir Rundal Gallente The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.07.24 05:34:00 - [191] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Aldir Rundal Originally by: SiJira goum is a fine example of a 0.0 carebear Haha, He presents a clear and honest argument that bests yours and you care only to insult him. Congrats goum, you win. you mean where he argues with himself cause he skips all the opposing points or twists them out of context? yea he wins - and you are a successful man for sure - i hear flattery gets you far I hear insults get you about half as far SiJira. Quit posting useless drivel please. Local has been a part of Eve for a very long time. It's not likely to change. Recruiting
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.24 05:55:00 - [192] Originally by: Aldir Rundal Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Aldir Rundal Originally by: SiJira goum is a fine example of a 0.0 carebear Haha, He presents a clear and honest argument that bests yours and you care only to insult him. Congrats goum, you win. you mean where he argues with himself cause he skips all the opposing points or twists them out of context? yea he wins - and you are a successful man for sure - i hear flattery gets you far I hear insults get you about half as far SiJira. Quit posting useless drivel please. Local has been a part of Eve for a very long time. It's not likely to change. please stop defending someone until you read all their posts if you dont like something dont read it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.24 06:04:00 - [193] Originally by: Goumindong ed: quite simply, the less information presented in the system, the more the advantage swings from those who do not move, to those who do. By nature, the defenders, who have to defend a point, because that is what is required for efficient mining or ratting operations, are of extreemly limited mobility. And the attackers, who are more mobile do not face these restrictions. Which is why all of the reasonable folks who are in favour of nerfing local also support concepts like sensor nets and POS scanning arrays, so that the defenders can stand a chance too. I have no problem with people being able to defend their space. I do have a problem with people being able to travel with impunity and control-q the moment they see Agony in local. I have a problem with macro ratters who abuse local for self-defence (once again, aided significantly by the logoffski). I have a problem with how easy I find it to travel through a 0.0 region that contains five alliances who have all set me to red. EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back. Recruitment FAQ
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.24 06:05:00 - [194] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Aldir Rundal I hear insults get you about half as far SiJira. Quit posting useless drivel please. Local has been a part of Eve for a very long time. It's not likely to change. please stop defending someone until you read all their posts if you dont like something dont read it SiJira, I agree with you about local. I agree with Aldir about your posts. If you have nothing worthwhile to say, don't say it. Recruitment FAQ
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.24 06:06:00 - [195] Originally by: BluOrange EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back. this is another good point ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Steel Tigeress Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:04:00 - [196] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: BluOrange EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back. this is another good point I think its funny how you say this is a good post... Yet when people say 0.0 should be hazardous and hostile to cloakers as well its a bunch of carebears whining.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.24 12:09:00 - [197] Originally by: BluOrange Originally by: Goumindong ed: quite simply, the less information presented in the system, the more the advantage swings from those who do not move, to those who do. By nature, the defenders, who have to defend a point, because that is what is required for efficient mining or ratting operations, are of extreemly limited mobility. And the attackers, who are more mobile do not face these restrictions. Which is why all of the reasonable folks who are in favour of nerfing local also support concepts like sensor nets and POS scanning arrays, so that the defenders can stand a chance too. I have no problem with people being able to defend their space. I do have a problem with people being able to travel with impunity and control-q the moment they see Agony in local. I have a problem with macro ratters who abuse local for self-defence (once again, aided significantly by the logoffski). I have a problem with how easy I find it to travel through a 0.0 region that contains five alliances who have all set me to red. EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back. Take away perfect intel and the game does not get scarier for everyone. It only gets scarier for defenders. The lack of perfect information is a boon to attackers, since attackers are, by their nature, able to modify their position more easily. If defenders are having to constantly move, they are sacrificing the thing which they need to produce and such the attacker is achieving their goal. This is a zero summ game, it does not operate in the way you think it operates. No local increases the ability of some ships to travel with impunity, since it decreases the ability of defense fleets to find and destroy targets. It decreases the ability of the owners of the system to travel. Any system that replaces local, must be nearly as strong as the current local mechanic. POS scanning and other player initiated options cannot function for reasons already listed. A system that only benefits defenders leaves friendlies operating in the space out in the cold as well. A system that operates like local but only for the defenders is as well simply too strong on information for the defenders. Systems that do not have a far reach present a window of opportunity to leave far less than would be necessary for any but the most alert and fast pilots to escape. So, if any system, in order to maintain a smidge of balance must be both universal, passive, and far reaching. At which point, we have a system that operates exactly like local, but isnt local. So why get rid of it if the replacement must act just like it? The main problem is that local presents too much of a time frame for which production can run. The answer then is not to scrap local, but to modify it to suit the specific balance needs. It takes about 1 minute to 2 minutes to find and lock down a target in a belt. The question is how much time ought a production character have to identify a threat and leave the area? I think between 30 seconds and a minute is a good amount of time that balances the needs of both characters. Such a delay of between 30 and 45 seconds is reasonable. But this dosnt change the mechanics of log-offski much, nor does it affect macros, nor does it affect cloakers. Those are seperate issues. Macros cannot be fixed by any system that must send data to the player before he is scrambled[since that what triggers the log/cloak]. Manual cloaking and logoffski are the same issue. I dont have as much of a problem with logging as cloaks. Since they both operate similarly, but logging dosnt allow you to know when the hostile has left the system. And both are seperate issues that cannot be fixed by changing the way that players recieve information.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.24 15:06:00 - [198] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: SiJira Originally by: BluOrange EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back. this is another good point I think its funny how you say this is a good post... Yet when people say 0.0 should be hazardous and hostile to cloakers as well its a bunch of carebears whining. it is hazardous - every time i uncloak and for the people thinking goum makes a good post - try reading all his crap - hopefully you have 0.0 knowledge he is suggesting carebears deserve 100% of the possible profits and 0% of the possible risk in 0.0 - of course he likes to have big posts that if you notice are just the long ways of saying what i just did and trying to trick the newbs to support this by giving a lot of lies as evidence ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Shoukei	Posted - 2007.07.24 15:30:00 - [199] Originally by: Goumindong stuff nice wall of text. well worded pack of nonsense
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.24 15:40:00 - [200] Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: Goumindong stuff nice wall of text. well worded pack of nonsense you are a master of compacting many words into few ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.24 16:27:00 - [201] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: SiJira Originally by: BluOrange EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back. this is another good point I think its funny how you say this is a good post... Yet when people say 0.0 should be hazardous and hostile to cloakers as well its a bunch of carebears whining. it is hazardous - every time i uncloak and for the people thinking goum makes a good post - try reading all his crap - hopefully you have 0.0 knowledge he is suggesting carebears deserve 100% of the possible profits and 0% of the possible risk in 0.0 - of course he likes to have big posts that if you notice are just the long ways of saying what i just did and trying to trick the newbs to support this by giving a lot of lies as evidence SiJira, stop the strawman. My positions are not anything of the sort. For instance the post directly above this, and in others, i advocate moving the local broadcast to a delayed update system, giving the hunter a jump on the hunted. Why? Because currently there is too little risk involved in 0.0 ratting. But that there is too little risk in 0.0 ratting does not warrant a change to a system where there is too much risk in 0.0 ratting. And if we are to err, then we should err on the side of caution, or in this case the side of "people can make money too easily so they have more stuff to get blown up" and not "people cant make money easily enough, so they move back to empire/low-sec". When the chips fall, its better that people have too much stuff to play with than too little. I advocate methods to scan down all sorts of cloakers. Such that not only can recons be killed, but that there is a hunter/hunted relationship between recon ships and those that are attempting to destroy them. But also, so that production oriented ships cannot simply safe and cloak in order to avoid combat, that they must either be vulnerable, they must invest in a POS that can be knocked down, or they must log-off. If i had my way, the log-off timer on rat aggression/mining would be increased by 1 minute, because logging off when ratting is not a gamble like it should be. If you think that positions making it harder for production to occur in 0.0 are "suggesting zero risk and 100% profit"[what the hell does 100% profit mean anyway? Profit is measured in absolute terms, or at the margain, which would be dependant on input and this 100% profit would frankly be ****ty(104m per year for ratting in a Raven)] then you need to have your head checked.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.24 16:32:00 - [202] Originally by: BluOrange ...and POS scanning arrays... If you've got a team of people willing to fuel at least 1 large POS in every system you might ever operate in (an area that could span several regions) then yeah, great. Though, of course there's the question of what happens when you're fighting alongside other alliances - would they have to use your POS equipment, or would you have to have conflicting POSes everywhere - giving someone a fuel bill of +25%. This "solution" is just so impractical that its not even funny.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.24 17:00:00 - [203] Originally by: Goumindong SiJira, stop the strawman. My positions are not anything of the sort. can the teapot stop calling the kettle black? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.24 17:11:00 - [204] I am sorry, what position of yours am i misrepresenting?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.26 06:02:00 - [205] Originally by: Goumindong I am sorry, what position of yours am i misrepresenting? you might need to expand your definiton of a strawman argument - either way writing more does not make your non sense posts with a lot of misinformation any better - it just looks that way to people who dont bother reading it but disagree with removing local ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.27 07:10:00 - [206] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: SiJira Originally by: BluOrange EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back. this is another good point I think its funny how you say this is a good post... Yet when people say 0.0 should be hazardous and hostile to cloakers as well its a bunch of carebears whining. you do realize a cloaker has to uncloak to attack right? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.27 07:53:00 - [207] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: BluOrange EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back. Take away perfect intel and the game does not get scarier for everyone. It only gets scarier for defenders. The lack of perfect information is a boon to attackers, since attackers are, by their nature, able to modify their position more easily. If defenders are having to constantly move, they are sacrificing the thing which they need to produce and such the attacker is achieving their goal. False. As a member of an aggressive force operating in 0.0, I have lost count of the number of times our opponents have attempted to create ambushes and set traps for us. If we couldn't tell how many of them there are in local, we'd have to face the possibility that they're just out of detection range, waiting to pounce on us. Quote: This is a zero summ game, it does not operate in the way you think it operates. I don't think you have any real understanding of how and what I think, and I encourage you not to comment on that. Let's comment on the topic at hand and what is said. When I'm in the mood, I may start a thread about zero-sum games. Quote: Any system that replaces local, must be nearly as strong as the current local mechanic. POS scanning and other player initiated options cannot function for reasons already listed. A system that only benefits defenders leaves friendlies operating in the space out in the cold as well. A system that operates like local but only for the defenders is as well simply too strong on information for the defenders. As an attacker, I'm fine with the defenders in a system having something just as powerful as local, provided that the intel is provided by something outside of POS shields that can be destroyed within 10 minutes by a small force. As for the defender's allies missing out on the intel: tough. Join their alliance, put up your own sensor net, or ask them to give you updates when things happen. Quote: So, if any system, in order to maintain a smidge of balance must be both universal, passive, and far reaching. At which point, we have a system that operates exactly like local, but isnt local. So why get rid of it if the replacement must act just like it? Having expressed my disagreement with your premises, I reject the question. Quote: The main problem is that local presents too much of a time frame for which production can run. The answer then is not to scrap local, but to modify it to suit the specific balance needs. It takes about 1 minute to 2 minutes to find and lock down a target in a belt. The question is how much time ought a production character have to identify a threat and leave the area? I think between 30 seconds and a minute is a good amount of time that balances the needs of both characters. Such a delay of between 30 and 45 seconds is reasonable. That sounds like a really good idea, actually. Quote: But this dosnt change the mechanics of log-offski much, nor does it affect macros, nor does it affect cloakers. Those are seperate issues. Macros cannot be fixed by any system that must send data to the player before he is scrambled[since that what triggers the log/cloak]. Manual cloaking and logoffski are the same issue. I dont have as much of a problem with logging as cloaks. Since they both operate similarly, but logging dosnt allow you to know when the hostile has left the system. And both are seperate issues that cannot be fixed by changing the way that players recieve information. Agreed. I mention the logoffski because a proper logoffski fix would take a lot of the heat out of calls to remove local. IMO, there is a simple and effective logoffski fix available - leave the ship exactly where it was, and let it die. There are stations and outposts, if you log in space, you should expect to die. Recruitment FAQ
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.27 07:58:00 - [208] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: BluOrange ...and POS scanning arrays... If you've got a team of people willing to fuel at least 1 large POS in every system you might ever operate in (an area that could span several regions) then yeah, great. Though, of course there's the question of what happens when you're fighting alongside other alliances - would they have to use your POS equipment, or would you have to have conflicting POSes everywhere - giving someone a fuel bill of +25%. This "solution" is just so impractical that its not even funny. If you require perfect intel on every system you might ever operate in, then POS scanning arrays are exactly as hopeless as you say they are. If it makes the political challenges of alliances greater, then I don't have a problem with that. -insert 'Hello Kitty' reference here- Recruitment FAQ
Steel Tigeress Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.27 07:59:00 - [209] Edited by: Steel Tigeress on 27/07/2007 08:01:44 Edited by: Steel Tigeress on 27/07/2007 08:01:01 Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: SiJira Originally by: BluOrange EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back. this is another good point I think its funny how you say this is a good post... Yet when people say 0.0 should be hazardous and hostile to cloakers as well its a bunch of carebears whining. you do relize that a cloak is the only "pause" button in eve right? And it doesnt need to be deactivated to have a negative impact on a system right? or that its the only module without a counter right? Or that while activated, a pearson is safe indefinatly in the "Harsh, dark, hostile" environment right? You fail to realize that we have been asking for the same dangers to apply to cloakers, that you are asking for ratters. Yet your for 1, and against the other because one helps you, and the other hurts you. You cant have your cake and eat it too. you do realize a cloaker has to uncloak to attack right?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.27 09:03:00 - [210] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: SiJira you do realize a cloaker has to uncloak to attack right? you do relize that a cloak is the only "pause" button in eve right? And it doesnt need to be deactivated to have a negative impact on a system right? or that its the only module without a counter right? Or that while activated, a pearson is safe indefinatly in the "Harsh, dark, hostile" environment right? You fail to realize that we have been asking for the same dangers to apply to cloakers, that you are asking for ratters. Yet your for 1, and against the other because one helps you, and the other hurts you. You cant have your cake and eat it too. -fixed quote for you- And no it isnt a pause button because you can get uncloaked - no you do not affect the system because there should always be a defensive person with every defenseless ship - yes it has many counters - ie you kill the ship when he tries to gank you - that is what you are scared of right? funny you say that cliche about cake when you go to 0.0 expecting to reap full high rewards with no work-risk involved you are the one asking to have your cake - the rewards - and eat it too - no risk or work now proceed to totally twist my post up and try to use a strawman like goum does in every post or ignore my post altogether because you just defeated your own unrealistic demand for breaking something that is balanced ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.27 12:50:00 - [211] Originally by: BluOrange False. As a member of an aggressive force operating in 0.0, I have lost count of the number of times our opponents have attempted to create ambushes and set traps for us. If we couldn't tell how many of them there are in local, we'd have to face the possibility that they're just out of detection range, waiting to pounce on us. And they would have to face the same possibility. Except that since they are the ones who are sitting around, you are the ones who are more able to make use of the directional scanner. This gives you more information and more ability to use that information. This means that not only do they have to face the same possibilities that you do, but that you have more information on what is happening than them. Quote: I don't think you have any real understanding of how and what I think, and I encourage you not to comment on that. Let's comment on the topic at hand and what is said. When I'm in the mood, I may start a thread about zero-sum games. What you have said has indicated that you do not think that the system is a Zero sum game. Simply because you didnt use the term doesnt mean that you havent supported the position. Quote: As an attacker, I'm fine with the defenders in a system having something just as powerful as local, provided that the intel is provided by something outside of POS shields that can be destroyed within 10 minutes by a small force. As for the defender's allies missing out on the intel: tough. Join their alliance, put up your own sensor net, or ask them to give you updates when things happen. Your funeral i guess. Quote: Agreed. I mention the logoffski because a proper logoffski fix would take a lot of the heat out of calls to remove local. IMO, there is a simple and effective logoffski fix available - leave the ship exactly where it was, and let it die. There are stations and outposts, if you log in space, you should expect to die. At the end of the day, Eve is a game where the goal is to have fun. Being unable to log off because you ship will be destroyed, or the POS smashed in a day or so is not fun.
Steel Tigeress Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.27 13:29:00 - [212] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: SiJira you do realize a cloaker has to uncloak to attack right? you do relize that a cloak is the only "pause" button in eve right? And it doesnt need to be deactivated to have a negative impact on a system right? or that its the only module without a counter right? Or that while activated, a pearson is safe indefinatly in the "Harsh, dark, hostile" environment right? You fail to realize that we have been asking for the same dangers to apply to cloakers, that you are asking for ratters. Yet your for 1, and against the other because one helps you, and the other hurts you. You cant have your cake and eat it too. -fixed quote for you- And no it isnt a pause button because you can get uncloaked - no you do not affect the system because there should always be a defensive person with every defenseless ship - yes it has many counters - ie you kill the ship when he tries to gank you - that is what you are scared of right? funny you say that cliche about cake when you go to 0.0 expecting to reap full high rewards with no work-risk involved you are the one asking to have your cake - the rewards - and eat it too - no risk or work now proceed to totally twist my post up and try to use a strawman like goum does in every post or ignore my post altogether because you just defeated your own unrealistic demand for breaking something that is balanced Ya I botched the quote =P But the content remains true. Show me what risk somone cloaked for 23 hours in a enemy system is facing, and then you may have a valid point. Their reward is less economic growth for all the other inhabitants of that system. No risk, but they get reward. Thats broken by your own logic.
Aleksandr Cirtus Caldari Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 13:34:00 - [213] Guess who didn't read 8 pages of bull****? ME!!!! Human nature never ceases to amaze... no, disappoint me. Aleksandr Cirtus Senior Knight and Ghost Fleet Pilot of Stronghold Curse Alliance
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:20:00 - [214] Its the same thing as Warp to 0. Making Book-Marks was not supposed to be abused to allow for Warp to 0, but it was, and since everyone whined and whined about not being able to move quickly around eve, to run away or run large gate camps, they make Warp to 0. Likewise, local is not supposed to be used as an intelligence gathering tool but rather a tool for player interaction - but - it is a valuable intelligence gathering tool and people are dependent on it. I say, remove local untill you speak in it. 0.0 border control is all fine and dandy and the reasons for having it are understandable, but in reality, its just mis-using an in-game mechanic. I use it, I depend on it, but I would like to see it go - it makes things a LOT more interesting. . .
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:25:00 - [215] okay, so let's say I jump into a friendly gate camp, but want to move my neutral alt through as well? The local channel makes it very easy for me to do that. just a hypothesis, but... there are so many uses for the local channel, and for having an instant update, I really think that removing or nerfing it would be a Bad Idea. ***
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:30:00 - [216] Originally by: Stitcher okay, so let's say I jump into a friendly gate camp, but want to move my neutral alt through as well? The local channel makes it very easy for me to do that. just a hypothesis, but... there are so many uses for the local channel, and for having an instant update, I really think that removing or nerfing it would be a Bad Idea. You can solve that by simply speaking at teh local. You don need the auto update for that. Local should not show who is on system, plain simple. Just number of people and show the people anmes when they speak up. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Aravisi Warhamsters Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:31:00 - [217] Don't remove it. Point.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:34:00 - [218] okay, let me re-phrase this: who would nerfing local actually help? gate camps wouldn't know when somebody came in, and lone flyers wouldn't know if they were about to blunder into a gatecamp Alliances would easily be able to move entire fleets around without anybody being able to know where they were until it was too late to respond. even the people looking to cloak somewhere and score a few stealthy kills wouldn't have the faintest idea whether or not there was even a potential target in their system until they were on the same grid - by which point, half the time, it's too late to do anything. So, in short, nerfing or ending local for 0.0 causes more problems than it could possibly solve. ***
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive Animal.	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:44:00 - [219] If CCP didn't intend local as a tool to provide strategic intelligence, why did they make standings visible there? They all have one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast. All go to one place; all are of the dust and all turn to dust again.
Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:51:00 - [220] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds If CCP didn't intend local as a tool to provide strategic intelligence, why did they make standings visible there? For when local is "possibly" replaced by constellation chat and/or to lessen the load on the server in the short term because of the data requests to the server. ie. you have to right click info everything in local to find out if they were a friend or a foe.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive Animal.	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:55:00 - [221] Originally by: Indigo Johnson Originally by: Tommy TenKreds If CCP didn't intend local as a tool to provide strategic intelligence, why did they make standings visible there? For when local is "possibly" replaced by constellation chat and/or to lessen the load on the server in the short term because of the data requests to the server. ie. you have to right click info everything in local to find out if they were a friend or a foe. I agree with your observation about server load issues, but the rest is conjecture, unless you have evidence that this is what they are 'possibly' planning. I would honestly like to know if so. They all have one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast. All go to one place; all are of the dust and all turn to dust again.
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.31 04:18:00 - [222] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: BluOrange False. As a member of an aggressive force operating in 0.0, I have lost count of the number of times our opponents have attempted to create ambushes and set traps for us. If we couldn't tell how many of them there are in local, we'd have to face the possibility that they're just out of detection range, waiting to pounce on us. And they would have to face the same possibility. Except that since they are the ones who are sitting around, you are the ones who are more able to make use of the directional scanner. This gives you more information and more ability to use that information. This means that not only do they have to face the same possibilities that you do, but that you have more information on what is happening than them. Not if the removal of local was structured in a way that lent advantage to the defender, which is something that I have consistently supported. Quote: Quote: I don't think you have any real understanding of how and what I think, and I encourage you not to comment on that. Let's comment on the topic at hand and what is said. When I'm in the mood, I may start a thread about zero-sum games. What you have said has indicated that you do not think that the system is a Zero sum game. Simply because you didnt use the term doesnt mean that you havent supported the position. Very well then: Eve is not a zero-sum game. It doesn't work the way you think it does. To take an obvious example, if we both go mining, then we are both advantaged by however much we mined. Quote: Quote: As an attacker, I'm fine with the defenders in a system having something just as powerful as local, provided that the intel is provided by something outside of POS shields that can be destroyed within 10 minutes by a small force. As for the defender's allies missing out on the intel: tough. Join their alliance, put up your own sensor net, or ask them to give you updates when things happen. Your funeral i guess. Not just mine Quote: Quote: Agreed. I mention the logoffski because a proper logoffski fix would take a lot of the heat out of calls to remove local. IMO, there is a simple and effective logoffski fix available - leave the ship exactly where it was, and let it die. There are stations and outposts, if you log in space, you should expect to die. At the end of the day, Eve is a game where the goal is to have fun. Being unable to log off because you ship will be destroyed, or the POS smashed in a day or so is not fun. So fly a couple of jumps to an outpost or station. Get yourself to a place where it's difficult to be probed down and log there. Or don't undock in what you can't afford to lose. There are plenty of options besides logging off, and it is a mechanic that is constantly abused. Recruitment FAQ
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.31 04:38:00 - [223] Quote: Very well then: Eve is not a zero-sum game. It doesn't work the way you think it does. To take an obvious example, if we both go mining, then we are both advantaged by however much we mined. Eve as a whole is not, but the relationship between recons and production is. Just like life isnt a zero sum game, but war is. The difference is that there is no incentive or obligation on anyones part to make war fair. But there is incentive and obligation on CCPs part to make the hunter/hunted game fair. Quote: Not if the removal of local was structured in a way that lent advantage to the defender, which is something that I have consistently supported. But that defeats the point. The "problem" with local is that defenders have too much of a notice before attackers come. You cannot structure it both so that defenders have the clear advantage and that the point of removing local was achieved. This is why delayed update is a much better solution. Because as well, it provides information to attackers as well. Quote: So fly a couple of jumps to an outpost or station. Get yourself to a place where it's difficult to be probed down and log there. Or don't undock in what you can't afford to lose. There are plenty of options besides logging off, and it is a mechanic that is constantly abused. You need to log for 3 days, or a week for vacation, or a month for any number of reasons] Your deep safe will most likly be found. Your POS could very well be knocked down. And your station taken. It is not right that people should be unable to play in spurts because it doesnt suit someone who wants to kill them and take their stuff. Logging off is the supreme right in MMOs, and its only resriction is that it cannot reasonably be used to avoid combat. The answer to a log-off timer that is too short is to increase the log-off timer to something more reasonable, not to keep ships logged in all the time. Just as the answer to local giving info too fast is not to kill local, but to delay the speed at which it delivers data a reasonable amount.
Sovereign Entity	Posted - 2007.07.31 05:10:00 - [224] EveMiner v2.04 For Eve Online This is a Fully Automatic Eve Miner Bot. Starting at any Station it will Warp over to the Fields you setup. Then it will target the Asteroids untill finding the kind you have Selected to Mine. It will then mine till full and return to the base you also Choose and unload the Load. If you are attacked during your outting it will defend with simple attacks and retreat if hurt. And yes I put in a repair feature just incase. If you are damaged at a Station it will Auto repair. Usage: Start up EveMiner when your in a station, you will see a window where you can select all the options. Have Fun AFK mining !!! Download Link Here: http://h1.ripway.com/Utilon/EveMiner.exe
Valacirca Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.07.31 16:33:00 - [225] Please remove local from 0.0.
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.07.31 16:51:00 - [226] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Local is the main cause of BLOBAGE... the fact that you know exactly how many your enemy has estimulate you to brign a few more to be sure to outnumber them. They see that and do same etc.. nerf local and FC will have to take more chances and more fun will happen. Controlling the borders is easy. Just keep constellation chat, its enough for that. I disagree, it would just make people travel around in much larger numbers. ________________________________________________________
Toku Jiang Jiang Laboratories and Discovery	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:42:00 - [227] You can turn local off the day they make it possible to probe out cloaked ships, there sounds like an even trade.
CagedRage BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:45:00 - [228] Originally by: Toku Jiang You can turn local off the day they make it possible to probe out cloaked ships, there sounds like an even trade. But they might not cloak if they didn't know you were there.
Royaldo Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:46:00 - [229] please remove local, but keep people in the constellation channels.
largewhereitcounts	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:49:00 - [230] Originally by: Royaldo please remove local, but keep people in the constellation channels. ___ I believe local should also display the ship the person is flying and their resists and highest damage type.
Mirirar Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:37:00 - [231] Voting for removal of Local in 0.0. Sorry - there is absolutely no risk for carebear or ratting operations in 0.0. There is nothing but upside for them. Cloak if local jumps! Jump back to the pos if local jumps! Collect your billion isk. :( If they want to make money mining or ratting - they should do what everyone else has to do: Post sentries around your op. Don't mine alone. Have your corp buddies protecting you. ... you know, the way it should be. Corps that can't handle this shouldn't be in 0.0 anyways.
Ithica Ramlix	Posted - 2007.08.01 00:05:00 - [232] This is actually a post I made in the thread "How long will PvPers keep playing EvE". I personally play eve on hard mode, no alts, no taking ransoms, no buying isk ect. I think that everyone needs to stop worrying about getting ganked and think instead about having fun... which is found in the excitement of unpredictability, so you lost a ship.... so what we all do, local or not, but it got your heart pumping right? The Bottom line is that no matter what happens someone will complain, but removing local is the single easiest fix the worsening problems with boredom that eve is current facing. In short Lokal has to go or eve is going to grow old and die. Take Your Pick. It is 2 bad that there is already 8 pages of people crying about this with a handful of insightful thoughts mixed in, so I understand most people will not read this. Damn Shame. Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: CagedRage Edited by: CagedRage on 31/07/2007 01:32:51 Originally by: WalronS i am in the same opinion as you. the pvp (?) experience in eve according to me is like that: %5 pvp (player vs player as we all know) %10 gvg (gang vs gang) %85 gvp (gang vs PLAYER) = blobbing! Well, I can understand the reasons why one gang would want to out number another gang, that's only natural really... What I don't understand is why things are added to a game that encourage massive scale blobbing (which the system can't handle as it is anyway) Originally by: Jenna Shame If I wanted that I'd go back to WoW raiding. WoW raids were fairly fun actually. theoretically there could be reasons to not want to outnumber. Military theory says you have mainly 3 ways to fight and win when on same tecnological level: 1-Being unreachable in battle, be it by range, speed or Ewar (we can do all those in game). 2-Be stealthy and only reveal yourself at moment you can take fast and decisive action(impossible due to local), theoretically this work best with SMALL groups and cover guerilha tactics as well. 3- Overpower your enemy (blob) so you can decimate its forces so fast that he cannot react. So the only way to make blbob worth less is allowing the secodn combat way. Remove local and introduce stealthy precise attacks mecanics. I have read other forums about removing local from 0.0, and I have to admit it would make 0.0 10 times more dangerous, however it does also have great benefits and the above solution to the blob problem is IMO the BEST example of this. All of a sudden a huge fleet is now vulnerable to hit and fade, raid style tactics that would revitalize the excitement of the otherwise slow and grinding fleet battles. This would also give the smaller ships attached to cap fleets something to do while sieging a POS... and increase the need for anti-gorilla hunting parties, with the emphasis on staying fast and mobile. This would also mean that the bigger fleet also has to put more on the line because it has to be better protected... so the advantage swings in favor of the smaller mobile force rather then the huge blob. Having read this quote I am now 100% in favor of removing local from 0.0. Anyone that wants to talk in local still can.. and it reviles their name but not their avatar's picture, just like a radio transition. If CCP isn't willing to do this for all of 0.0 then consider instead adding a mobile or anchorable local yammer....
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.12 11:04:00 - [233] Originally by: Toku Jiang You can turn local off the day they make it possible to probe out cloaked ships, there sounds like an even trade. seeing that most of them scare people when they are afk - removing local would remove that fear ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Acronikosvz	Posted - 2007.08.12 11:10:00 - [234] Originally by: SiJira no empire has established lines of communication there so only make people show up if they talk as a rudimentary communications service instead of - player has join system - notification Agreed. Did you ever see americans in iraq go, 'O sh1t look someone has entered local with a bomb strapped to himself running at us' ... It really takes the element of suprise away... This is how it should work, I think in revel 3 or even before they should release a new ship type, with no modules at all that can track players and ship types in a system, no matter the range, it can always detect, but this ship is very slow and big... not all gangs roaming in pvp will have this, thus having a nice element of suprise in the game instead of all this '**** there is a 4man gang in local run and gate camp' just not fun.
Esk Esme Caldari High4Life	Posted - 2007.08.12 11:34:00 - [235] removal of 0.0 local would slow 0.0 life right down even tho local wasnt ment as sorce of intel to c who's in your system it has been intregated into nerly every aspect of the pvp life u wana spend hour's running around a system looking for a kill an nobody there and u dont klnow it LMFAO stupid idea realy is
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.12 12:17:00 - [236] uh ya that argument is overused and illogical nos was - integrated into every aspect of pvp life and yet you dont see CCP caring when they announced the change do you? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Radgun Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.08.12 13:20:00 - [237] doesn't this game make you paranoid enough that you want to remove local haha
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:15:00 - [238] Originally by: SiJira uh ya that argument is overused and illogical nos was - integrated into every aspect of pvp life and yet you dont see CCP caring when they announced the change do you? Removing local is completely dissimilar to most levels of module nerfs.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.12 15:02:00 - [239] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: SiJira uh ya that argument is overused and illogical nos was - integrated into every aspect of pvp life and yet you dont see CCP caring when they announced the change do you? Removing local is completely dissimilar to most levels of module nerfs. only because everyone uses it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.13 12:17:00 - [240] Originally by: Radgun doesn't this game make you paranoid enough that you want to remove local haha there should be no paranoia if you are confident in your abilities ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.13 12:29:00 - [241] Old topic is oooold. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.13 13:31:00 - [242] Originally by: Stitcher Old topic is oooold. in other news today the sky is blue please add to the discussion ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
theteck	Posted - 2007.08.13 16:35:00 - [243] dont remove the local and put voice chat in local please and i want a counter measure again bubble please and i want a probe that fake a ship signature for hiding purpose
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.13 17:10:00 - [244] why do i feel that none of those ideas were meant to be constructive? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.17 19:39:00 - [245] so far the best ideas i see here would not really solve the problem that is local they should just imitate lag ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.21 10:32:00 - [246] so how about it remove local for 0.0 make it a module for alliance sovereignty to create a new type of local for themselves only and then make it 15 sec to - connect - to local when you jump around in lowsec - as little as this might do it would prevent people knowing you are there before you actually load into the system ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
AuroraStar RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 12:05:00 - [247] Originally by: SiJira I suck at pvp so I want to remove local so I can gank ratters and miners much easier. Thats what you meant to say I think. Fixed it for you.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.21 12:28:00 - [248] Originally by: AuroraStar Thats what you meant to say I think. Fixed it for you. you fail ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
AuroraStar RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:19:00 - [249] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: AuroraStar Thats what you meant to say I think. Fixed it for you. you fail no u
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:22:00 - [250] Originally by: AuroraStar Originally by: SiJira Originally by: AuroraStar Thats what you meant to say I think. Fixed it for you. you fail no u and when local is removed your kind shall be eliminated ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
AuroraStar RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:25:00 - [251] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: AuroraStar Originally by: SiJira Originally by: AuroraStar Thats what you meant to say I think. Fixed it for you. you fail no u and when local is removed ill finally be able to kill someone! cause like its so unfair they should have some sort of defence against me, and i cant kill real pvpers help my lame ass please ccp
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:29:00 - [252] Originally by: AuroraStar and when local is removed ill finally be able to kill someone! cause like its so unfair they should have some sort of defence against me, and i cant kill real pvpers help my lame ass please ccp you arent funny anymore and the fact you are a carebear in 0.0 is clear ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
AuroraStar RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:30:00 - [253] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: AuroraStar and when local is removed ill finally be able to kill someone! cause like its so unfair they should have some sort of defence against me, and i cant kill real pvpers help my lame ass please ccp QQ
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:32:00 - [254] Originally by: AuroraStar QQ nice response ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
AuroraStar RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:34:00 - [255] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: AuroraStar QQ nice response thx more qq plz its entertaining
Sharon Lynn	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:37:00 - [256] Originally by: AuroraStar Originally by: SiJira Originally by: AuroraStar QQ nice response thx more qq plz its entertaining What you are saying is, Sijira respond quickly before my mommy takes me away from her computer
Sgt Blade An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:38:00 - [257] Originally by: Frug How are so many people suddenly against removing local as a spy tool? I thought everyone wanted local nerfed for that. I sure do. well i dont want it removed from local so im sure there are many more keep local in 0.0 remove it in empiure !!!!! Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Klyde Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:38:00 - [258] Edited by: Klyde on 21/08/2007 13:38:29 I like the idea of this, it would make the game much more interesting, thats for sure, I am all for change.. its a win win for both sides, hunters and hunted. I would actually like to see no one listed in local unless they chat in local, this way the spammers selling stuff could still spam and out in 0.0 it would actually make you think. (No more gold farmers, see someone in local, cloak ) ..........................
Uedel Minmatar Lyonesse. The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:46:00 - [259] fine Remove the Local, but then give me also better options to thrue Navigation instead of warp to 100-0 KM then i can play wise guy and search my travel spots to scan my way ahead instead of landing just in the Arms of some wannabe pirates that lurking arround the Honeypot spots. If i cant realy Navigate removing local is driving a luxus Car lights of over curvey street with 250 KM/h at a dark dark night. And i wisch all who vote for local of the first looses of Multi million Dollar ships in your Territory because you have no clue whats going on arround you. It Allready makes me laugh when i see the "Intel Value" provided in Eve, guessing we are far away in the Future the Sensors for elektromagnetic sources are weeker then 1920 as the Human kind slightly realiesed the possibility of Wireless Communications .
SoMuchForSubtlety	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:54:00 - [260] I haven't read much of this post so sorry if this is a duplicate but how about make local like the NPC corp chats? You don't appear until you speak. Anyone leaves the system and returns, the list is empty again to them. If you're in the list and you leave the system and return, you don't appear until you speak again. You want to smack, you still can. You want to cloak and wind up the locals, you can if you spam local (and you can't be AFK).
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:57:00 - [261] Originally by: Ryas Nia nerf Sijira for useless threads. QFT Gifv /ignore for forums plz thx. Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Vyyrus An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:11:00 - [262] Edited by: Vyyrus on 21/08/2007 17:12:00 I bet SiJira doesn't even go into 0.0! Do you guys see how many threads this guy has? He probably spends more time creating threads than playing the game.
Tahmee Bhakeur	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:37:00 - [263] To the OP... hell no. You want your blob undetectable until it hits, able to roam unseen unless someone yells YAR in local or seen by someone on the gate... again, hell no. If you want to back your argument with the lack of established lines of communication, then there should be NO sec increase in 0.0 because Concord isn't there to verify and therefore give sec bonus or bounty for that matter. The only thing local needs is a toggle to filter local by overview settings -remove all blue, show war targets only, show -5 or worse, etc... like in the overview.
Tahmee Bhakeur	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:37:00 - [264] To the OP... hell no. You want your blob undetectable until it hits, able to roam unseen unless someone yells YAR in local or seen by someone on the gate... again, hell no. If you want to back your argument with the lack of established lines of communication, then there should be NO sec increase in 0.0 because Concord isn't there to verify and therefore give sec bonus or bounty for that matter. The only thing local needs is a toggle to filter local by overview settings -remove all blue, show war targets only, show -5 or worse, etc... like in the overview.
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:58:00 - [265] Local is fine the way it is. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:15:00 - [266] Originally by: Tahmee Bhakeur To the OP... hell no. You want your blob undetectable until it hits, able to roam unseen unless someone yells YAR in local or seen by someone on the gate... again, hell no. If you want to back your argument with the lack of established lines of communication, then there should be NO sec increase in 0.0 because Concord isn't there to verify and therefore give sec bonus or bounty for that matter. The only thing local needs is a toggle to filter local by overview settings -remove all blue, show war targets only, show -5 or worse, etc... like in the overview. In other words, make it easier than it already is. Hell no
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:20:00 - [267] Originally by: SSgt Sniper Local is fine the way it is. Agree 110%
Trak'anon	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:23:00 - [268] you see, local in 0.0 is needed to put all the smack, emotion bursts, chat ****s and GF's in
Vyyrus An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:23:00 - [269] If you want to remove local for 0.0 than give us people who live in drone regions rats with bounties and security status...
Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:27:00 - [270] Or just replace it with constellation, covert ops can then sit on the constellation boundaries, you will know when the blob has arrived in your constellation and will, on the whole, make the game alittle more interesting. CCP Oveur has mentioned this at least...hope it happens.
Jensen Blayloc Minmatar Galtech Security Services	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:16:00 - [271] I am not a fan of local in any space. I think that there should be skills and modules for scanning. The area scanned is a function of the power available to the scanner and the skill of the user. I think POS's should have scanners available that can be accessed in station and could possibly (with the right tower) reach to ajoining systems. You could take this farther and be able to rent scanners in offices in NPC stations in empire space. Right now, true recon is a lost art, covert ops are not really that covert, and scouting is for people setting up gate camps. Most of which seem to be in hi-sec space nowadays with all the suicide farmers.. Yeah.. THATS PvP.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.25 15:10:00 - [272] Originally by: Vyyrus If you want to remove local for 0.0 than give us people who live in drone regions rats with bounties and security status... Why do you even post? your post is equivalent to someone saying they want to reove nos and you coming up and saying "if you want to remove nos please nerf mining lasers" your post has no relevance and if everyone against the idea posted like you then it would definitely get implemented right away ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.25 15:20:00 - [273] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn STOP BUMPING YOUR OWN THREAD! LET IT DIE! Local stays and that's the end of the argument! stop trolling my thread - it only takes one email ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.08.25 15:46:00 - [274] I've posted ideas on this on the suggestions section. Link in my sig. Summary is: If there are no tools given to players to help with the removal of local, local stays. And besides, removing local after its been with EVE for over 4 years codewise... well I dont even want to consider how bug-ridden that can of worms being opened will feel like. - NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys
Bodhisattvas mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.08.25 16:25:00 - [275] 0.0 muppets much a do about *******s
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.25 17:04:00 - [276] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari I've posted ideas on this on the suggestions section. Link in my sig. Summary is: If there are no tools given to players to help with the removal of local, local stays. And besides, removing local after its been with EVE for over 4 years codewise... well I dont even want to consider how bug-ridden that can of worms being opened will feel like. a lot of things have been broken for years and then they get fixed thats an excuse when you dont really have an argument ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Ni'ka	Posted - 2007.08.25 20:10:00 - [277] Fully support idea of removing local chat.
UPA Terf Scorn Again.	Posted - 2007.08.25 21:04:00 - [278] Edited by: UPA Terf on 25/08/2007 21:04:30 Removing local. Is a terrible idea because simply: 1) Individuals and small corps will NOT be able to use 0.0 and will be forced into alliances which is not what everyone wants. So noone will move out there which is exceptionally contradictory to the "get more people in lowsec/0.0" mission statement 2) If you remove it, you would create a MASSIVE imbalance in pvpers and non pvpers as instead of safespots running to pos's etc it becomes warp to gate "oh no" dead "back to empire" this issue is all about small corps and individuals dont make this more of an alliance only game.
Acki Juc Caldari NYIT Gangstaz SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.25 21:21:00 - [279] Edited by: Acki Juc on 25/08/2007 21:21:47 I've said it once before and I will say it again. The removal of local is a bad idea. Reasons that support my claim can be found throughout this thread. Blog.
Yagyu Retsudo Yagyu Holdings	Posted - 2007.08.25 21:26:00 - [280] Originally by: Ni'ka Fully support idea of removing local chat. Firmly AGAINST the idea of removing local chat.
Vorian Atraties Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.08.25 21:51:00 - [281] why do you people want to remove local, then you wouldent have a place to smack at. unless you plan on sending people evemails v
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.25 22:47:00 - [282] Originally by: Vorian Atraties why do you people want to remove local, then you wouldent have a place to smack at. unless you plan on sending people evemails v Quote: no empire has established lines of communication there so only make people show up if they talk as a rudimentary communications service instead of - player has join system - notification at least read the first post i highlighted the important stuff for you ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Baugoti Amarr Middle Finger Technology Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.08.25 23:17:00 - [283] local needs removed when im going to attack someone.. other then that.. keep it up :)
LvxOccvlta	Posted - 2007.08.26 00:40:00 - [284] I can remember a while back, when it was possible to delete Local from your Channels. Doing so removed you from showing up in local when you entered system... but CCP altered this "feature" making it impossible to delete Local. I for one, would love it if pilots only appeared in local chat if they spoke in local chat. This would make 0.0 space seem much bigger... and scarier.. it would give equal advantages to defenders and attackers while changing the dynamic of 0.0 PVP entirely.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:33:00 - [285] Originally by: LvxOccvlta I can remember a while back, when it was possible to delete Local from your Channels. Doing so removed you from showing up in local when you entered system... but CCP altered this "feature" making it impossible to delete Local. I for one, would love it if pilots only appeared in local chat if they spoke in local chat. This would make 0.0 space seem much bigger... and scarier.. it would give equal advantages to defenders and attackers while changing the dynamic of 0.0 PVP entirely. it would make eve everything it is hyped up to be ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Reachok Amarr Omiracon Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:49:00 - [286] Edited by: Reachok on 28/08/2007 10:50:27 Sure, you can remove local, but only if you let me have instant map updates for show pilots in space. Eve communication is instantaneous. Gameplay wise, the gates report activity to DED, or Concord as people jump through. The current map is purposely gimped with a 30 minute average. So, I'd know there's 50 pilots next door, but when I jump in unless they are all on that gate, I'd not know who. That would require me to scan for ships, plot an alternate course to the next gate so I could scan for enemies, etc. So, I don't think you can have both a 30 minute average, which was a concession to 0.0 pilots AND no local in 0.0. You want the no local, give us back the instant show pilot updates. It's only fair.
Inturist Capital Spaceship Industries	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:59:00 - [287] Originally by: Ryas Nia nerf Sijira for useless threads. QFT --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.08.28 11:05:00 - [288] I've said it before and i'll say it again. Remove Local. Make Constellation the new local. Job done...think about it before responding, it's simple yet effective. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Vyyrus An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.28 13:46:00 - [289] Is SiJira trying to get all his threads on the front page or something?
Turix Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.28 13:48:00 - [290] Chnage local to the mode where you dont show up unless you say anything, so you dont know who is in local. But still show how many people - that way you dont know if the numbers of freindly,hostile or neutral. Just there is X in this system. \| Image Hosting \| My Movies \|
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 13:49:00 - [291] But the smack, man, think of the smack! won't sombeody please think of the GFs?! - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Jade190	Posted - 2007.08.28 13:57:00 - [292] Edited by: Jade190 on 28/08/2007 13:57:42 if local get removed, they must also remove the following: gangs corps alliances ships stations pods guns shields the map 0.0 lowsec and ***holes like you (directed at SiJira) it's only fair. you get to play eve the way you want to, why can't i?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.28 14:32:00 - [293] Originally by: Celeste Coeval I've said it before and i'll say it again. Remove Local. Make Constellation the new local. Job done...think about it before responding, it's simple yet effective. that would be a step in the right direction ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:00:00 - [294] Originally by: Turix Chnage local to the mode where you dont show up unless you say anything, so you dont know who is in local. But still show how many people - that way you dont know if the numbers of freindly,hostile or neutral. Just there is X in this system. it shouldnt show how many people that doesnt change much if anything at all ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:00:00 - [295] Originally by: Jade190 Edited by: Jade190 on 28/08/2007 13:57:42 if local get removed, they must also remove the following: gangs corps alliances ships stations pods guns shields the map 0.0 lowsec and ***holes like you (directed at SiJira) it's only fair. you get to play eve the way you want to, why can't i? oh you are one constructive genius ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.29 07:51:00 - [296] @ the OP.... Just wondering how many times you fell off of the short bus head-first and where you are getting the drugs. Seriously, what benefit do you get from removing local? The only ones that stand to gain are the ones that want to sit there for hours on end camping a gate and hoping people will warp in to them from across the system. Claims that it makes life too safe for the isk farmers is ridiculous. Removing local would only make things safer for them as there would be no way for you to know where they are unless you literally go from system to system and check every single belt and scan at every single planet for encounter plexes. What can they do to keep their sense of security? How about spamming more shuttles? Not like there aren't at least a hundred 0.0 systems that are pretty much impossible to scan for ships in due to the fifty shuttles, noobie ships and GSCs. Supposing you actually decided to hunt the enemy instead of just some macro farmer, how do you plan to scan them down? Perhaps fly by every single moon and take inventory of the ships that are sitting empty in the POSes? The way I see it, local is of more use to the agressor than it is to the victims. Hunters are much more likely to get bored than the prey is as the sheer redundancy of what the prey is doing lends itself much more to the patient people. If you really are patient enough to search an entire constellation looking for a person that could be docked in a station in one of ten or more possible systems, checking every concievable place along the way to try and find someone that you'll never really know if they were there or not, then you should be waaaaay more than patient enough to adapt your tactics to work with local in its current form. Maybe you should look into learning how to use the tools the game provides to get kills instead of sitting on a gate in your smartbombing battleship for hours on end waiting for shuttles and frigates to warp in to their death. Next time you think about wasting everyone's time with another thread like this with intentions to bump it over and over again with a myriad of alts, please try telling someone in RL your ideas first. If they look at you like you have an extra arm growing out of the top of your head or something, please don't post. If they seem to more or less understand you and sympathize with you, please check them into a treatment center for their own good.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.29 08:50:00 - [297] yarr i have alts in freelancer alliance and roadkill with the current warp to 0 removing local is the only option left to turn 0.0 from carebear land to what it is supposed to be - especially the non sovereignty systems ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Belial02 Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.08.29 09:10:00 - [298] No. It already takes long enough to move fleet arounds without beeing worried about things such as cloaking camps and morons trying to be smartasses. Also if ppl want to relax and carebear a bit its their right dammit. I dont see why I should bother with scanning every second just because some idiots want to boost their stats on KBs... Originally by: Omeega diplomacy is f1, f2, f3, really...
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:10:00 - [299] Originally by: Belial02 No. It already takes long enough to move fleet arounds without beeing worried about things such as cloaking camps and morons trying to be smartasses. Also if ppl want to relax and carebear a bit its their right dammit. I dont see why I should bother with scanning every second just because some idiots want to boost their stats on KBs... i love comments like this. You do realize your enemy has the same disadvantage/advantage. If local was changed to constellation then you would have an indication that there are hostiles withinb a 4-8 jump radius of you. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:44:00 - [300] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Belial02 No. It already takes long enough to move fleet arounds without beeing worried about things such as cloaking camps and morons trying to be smartasses. Also if ppl want to relax and carebear a bit its their right dammit. I dont see why I should bother with scanning every second just because some idiots want to boost their stats on KBs... i love comments like this. You do realize your enemy has the same disadvantage/advantage. If local was changed to constellation then you would have an indication that there are hostiles withinb a 4-8 jump radius of you. exactly ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:58:00 - [301] Still-warm necro. Sexy.
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:05:00 - [302] Originally by: SiJira exactly Just when I thought your forum posting couldn't sink any lower, you bump your month old thread with the reply, "exactly". You are a cancer. ---------------
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:12:00 - [303] Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: SiJira exactly Just when I thought your forum posting couldn't sink any lower, you bump your month old thread with the reply, "exactly". You are a cancer. its a relative issue with a thread full of informed posts people like you complain just because they can and i would rather have a large thread then 15 smaller ones thanks now dont post if you dont like and thank you for bumping ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:25:00 - [304] Originally by: SiJira its a relative issue with a thread full of informed posts Informed posts except for every one made by you and those who are sick of your antics. You spam this forum with half thought out, self serving ideas that do nothing but get you flamed. And yet you keep posting. Originally by: SiJira i would rather have a large thread then 15 smaller ones Wrong. You would rather have a large thread with YOUR NAME in the creator column. ---------------
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:27:00 - [305] thanks for the bump anyways the constellation idea is looking real good as long as it doesnt automatically show who is who ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
SiJira	Posted - 2007.10.27 21:32:00 - [306] with the new covert ops local needs to change read the OP to understand before you whine ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.27 21:35:00 - [307] SiJira, From my thread on improving low sec (see link in sig): Introducing - The Fog of War. Without the capabilities of Empire maintained communication relays your ships awareness its inceasingly mutted in Low Sec. This works by degrading your local scan range - in 1.0 space you see in local everyone within 100AU (99% of a system), in 0.9 this drops to 90AU and so on until 0.1 systems are down to 10AU radius for Local Intell. Its a compramise Id admit, but a workable one imho. C. - sig designer - eve mail Low Sec Idea
SiJira	Posted - 2007.10.27 21:41:00 - [308] Originally by: Cailais SiJira, From my thread on improving low sec (see link in sig): Introducing - The Fog of War. Without the capabilities of Empire maintained communication relays your ships awareness its inceasingly mutted in Low Sec. This works by degrading your local scan range - in 1.0 space you see in local everyone within 100AU (99% of a system), in 0.9 this drops to 90AU and so on until 0.1 systems are down to 10AU radius for Local Intell. Its a compramise Id admit, but a workable one imho. C. i agree that the changes need to come in small increments and something like that would be one of the first steps ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Ivor Gunn No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2007.10.27 21:56:00 - [309] Necro'd twice. It's dead, jim.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.27 22:17:00 - [310] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Cailais SiJira, From my thread on improving low sec (see link in sig): Introducing - The Fog of War. Without the capabilities of Empire maintained communication relays your ships awareness its inceasingly mutted in Low Sec. This works by degrading your local scan range - in 1.0 space you see in local everyone within 100AU (99% of a system), in 0.9 this drops to 90AU and so on until 0.1 systems are down to 10AU radius for Local Intell. Its a compramise Id admit, but a workable one imho. C. i agree that the changes need to come in small increments and something like that would be one of the first steps And probably the last. Scaling local intel is logical when laid alongside the Sec Status of a system. Removing local in its entirety would ultimately have negative effects upon the 'social' aspect of EVE. Constellation Chat channels wouldn't cover it, as we are as a species more able to assimilate social contact through proximity. No local is a bad idea; limiting local in a scaled fashion makes sense instinctively - like moving from a light filled corridor into increasing darkness. C. *signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) - sig designer - eve mail Low Sec Idea
SiJira	Posted - 2007.10.27 22:39:00 - [311] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Cailais SiJira, From my thread on improving low sec (see link in sig): Introducing - The Fog of War. Without the capabilities of Empire maintained communication relays your ships awareness its inceasingly mutted in Low Sec. This works by degrading your local scan range - in 1.0 space you see in local everyone within 100AU (99% of a system), in 0.9 this drops to 90AU and so on until 0.1 systems are down to 10AU radius for Local Intell. Its a compramise Id admit, but a workable one imho. C. i agree that the changes need to come in small increments and something like that would be one of the first steps And probably the last. Scaling local intel is logical when laid alongside the Sec Status of a system. Removing local in its entirety would ultimately have negative effects upon the 'social' aspect of EVE. Constellation Chat channels wouldn't cover it, as we are as a species more able to assimilate social contact through proximity. No local is a bad idea; limiting local in a scaled fashion makes sense instinctively - like moving from a light filled corridor into increasing darkness. C. come now read the op the local is still there it just doesnt do what the current local does, subsequent posts describe how an alliance would be able to fit something to their stations to allow for the local we have now hence giving a real backwater feel to all the uninhabited 0.0 ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.28 00:03:00 - [312] Edited by: Cailais on 28/10/2007 00:05:20 With that system noone would utter a word in local and then the points I mention would apply (social interaction, etc). Edit: having said that, Ive just realised that you are refering to 0.0 only in your OP. My system is exactly the same, it just spreads out across Eve in varying degrees of intensity. I would argue that cloaks would need to be scannable however under such a system: they would be to advantaged otherwise in many situations. C. *signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) - sig d
SiJira	Posted - 2007.10.28 00:28:00 - [313] Originally by: Cailais Edited by: Cailais on 28/10/2007 00:05:20 With that system noone would utter a word in local and then the points I mention would apply (social interaction, etc). Edit: having said that, Ive just realised that you are refering to 0.0 only in your OP. My system is exactly the same, it just spreads out across Eve in varying degrees of intensity. I would argue that cloaks would need to be scannable however under such a system: they would be to advantaged otherwise in many situations. C. none of the cloaks need to be detected more than they can be right now - definitely not by just scanning i dont see your point against social interaction - theres no prevention of it with my system if someone wants to talk they can ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
SiJira	Posted - 2007.10.31 01:46:00 - [314] when 0.0 is completely hostile to each player that is not in his own alliances sovereignty eve will be able to boast more about its greatness until then this part of the advertising is false and misleading ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem

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