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Amarr Recon - Current state

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Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.01 10:21:00 - [151] As most here have noted, the Curse is still a good ship, though no longer an 1-win button and requires a lot more pilot skill and micromanagement of cap. The Pilgrim is weak. It needs more grid, for starters, and maybe something else besides.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:03:00 - [152] Edited by: Cailais on 01/11/2007 11:05:39 Originally by: Hydrogen 3rd page - are Pilgrim pilots finally really the minority? Let me check! Well according to E-ON magazine issue 003 there where (at its time of publication) 307 Pilgrims in active service, selling at a market value of 141,040,000ISK. Hmm how times have changed. ineve.net shows 1388 trained pilgrim pilots out of a survey of some 50k capsuleers. Odd then that while demand has presumabley gone up (there are more pilots), the price has cough fallen like a stone... C. Piratise Low Sec! or Eve on Hard Mode (idea)
Hydrogen Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:49:00 - [153] Edited by: Hydrogen on 01/11/2007 11:49:13 Originally by: Cailais Edited by: Cailais on 01/11/2007 11:05:39 Originally by: Hydrogen 3rd page - are Pilgrim pilots finally really the minority? Let me check! Well according to E-ON magazine issue 003 there where (at its time of publication) 307 Pilgrims in active service, selling at a market value of 141,040,000ISK. ineve.net shows 1388 trained pilgrim pilots out of a survey of some 50k capsuleers. Odd then that while demand has presumabley gone up (there are more pilots), the price has cough fallen like a stone... So your point is? Pilgrim pilots accept by now, that they are lost? I can not really believe that this is the attitude on how CCP wants to solve things :) __ - click here -
Grytok KL0NKRIEGER	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:17:00 - [154] I don't think the Pilgrim and/or the Curse are totally screwed. The Curse is still a good ship, but with some drawbacks now, as you have to use Neutralizers and NOS in micromanagement to engage targets, bigger then a T1-cruiser, but fo rgangs they can be fitted extremely good for Cap-destroying. The Pilgrim is not really that good anymore, when it comes to Solo- Small-Gang PvP as it does not have the range, to do this job well with the NOS-changes that were made. The NOS-change makes it near impossible to sustain the tank of the Pilgrim and use the Neutralizers to weaken the targets Cap at the same time. I'ts DPS on the other hand is still superior in comparison to the other Force-Recons. 5x Hammerhead II's with max Drone-Skills and the 50% Damage-Bonus from Amarr-Cruiser LvL 5, resulting in 230 DPS. But you have to go close (< 12km) instead of keeping +30km like the others, which is the problem of the Pilgrim. So as a solution the Pilgrim should be given NOS/Neut Range Bonus, what I'd rather dislike, or a better Capacitor (i.e. 20% better CapRecharge) to perform in it's role, as a sneaky Tackler. And get rid of the targeting-delay for Force Recons and Covert Ops allready! .
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:28:00 - [155] Pilgrim is dead to me. And the Curse is like an ugly child. You don't wanna be near it, but you kinda feel obligated too. Come on CCP, bring them back to life! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amarr - getting screwed since 2005.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:38:00 - [156] Amarr recon's are going to start ruling. Main reason is, Damps are getting nerfed. So, Lachesis and Arazu are going to fallout, and tracking disrupters (remeber, that other bonus the curse gets?) is probably going to come into favor. So, relax, lets see what trinity has in store for amarr recons. ----------------- Friends Forever Kill. BoB. Dead.
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:50:00 - [157] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Amarr recon's are going to start ruling. Main reason is, Damps are getting nerfed. So, Lachesis and Arazu are going to fallout, and tracking disrupters (remeber, that other bonus the curse gets?) is probably going to come into favor. So, relax, lets see what trinity has in store for amarr recons. Nope! TDs are getting strength nerfs and scripts too. Sorry. --
Hydrogen Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:57:00 - [158] As long as damps and jammers affect turrets and launchers (and more) at reasonable chances, the TDs will be subpar. __ - click here -
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:01:00 - [159] bump
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:26:00 - [160] Yeah, both td's and damps are getting nerfed, leaving the Amarr recons exactly where CCP wants them...in the trash. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amarr - getting screwed since 2005.

Hydrogen Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:54:00 - [161] It is just - TDs are way less effective than jammers and dampeners. That is exactly why the NOS-strength made up for it on Pilgrim. With NOS-nerf Pilgrim is still plain broken. What bothers me is that CCP does not seem to read their board anymore. __ - click here -
Hydrogen Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:38:00 - [162] Well had a look on Sisi, hoping somethign changed. Of course it did: the 50MBit bandwidth is still in effect. As a result: a broken ship is being nerfed. What is next? Increasing Neutralizer power consumption? Sorry, that is laughable. __ - click here -
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.11.02 08:51:00 - [163] Originally by: Hydrogen Well had a look on Sisi, hoping somethign changed. Of course it did: the 50MBit bandwidth is still in effect. As a result: a broken ship is being nerfed. What is next? Increasing Neutralizer power consumption? Sorry, that is laughable. I never bothered using TDs anyway because they were so limited in use given the prevalence of missile and drone boats around. I found that by maximizing damp skills, using damp rigs and using best named damp modules, the Pilgrim was still useable in solo scenarios, tho very much a pain in the ass to manage the cap. Given the magnitude of the Damp nerf tho, I just can't find a reason to fly the Pilgrim at all anymore. Believe me, tracking disruptor nerf and the drone nerf aren't the only things nailing the coffin shut on the Pilgrim on SISI at the moment.
Maud Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:30:00 - [164] 'the curse still is a good ship' yes it is in its current form. Tho the pilgrim became unviable after the first nerf. however considering the epic amount of nerfing hitting this class it sure won't be. Nos Nerf - live drone bandwidth Nerf - on SISI Tracking Disruptor Nerf - on SISI The curse is unviable in this state and like its stealthy brother will cease tobe used.
Hydrogen Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:05:00 - [165] Originally by: Maud 'the curse still is a good ship' Sorry I tend to disagree, just because it needs to be more definite (imho): 'The Nano/damp-Curse still is a good ship' Any chance you can agree to that formula :) ? __ - click here -
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.02 12:19:00 - [166] well, i think its official, after testing the pilgrim on sisi, i might just give up on it :\ congrats ccp.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.11.02 12:23:00 - [167] i hav massivly unempressed with the performance of both the curse and pilgrim after the nos change, with damps tds and drones getting it too.... im just glad i fly other races recons or id be extremly unhappy, tho how long till minm/cald get a major recon nerf i cant tell all the guys saying "adapt or shut up", simply cant be amarr recon pilots, nuff' sed.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:18:00 - [168] Originally by: Feng Schui well, i think its official, after testing the pilgrim on sisi, i might just give up on it :\ congrats ccp. yeah, I came to the self same conclusion. On the plus side we can now cross train to fly the Falcon - it got a boost. Once more I sit through sisi down time, hoping against hope that when I log on the pilgrim will not be a sad little ship anymore...... C. Piratise Low Sec! or Eve on Hard Mode (idea)
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:24:00 - [169] Dev's please change your "no posting in Amarr threads" policy! We know you're reading, but this policy is stupid. Hydro and the other contributors have put a lot of thought into this, at least acknowledge their efforts and that there is a problem with these ships. Please. -eLLioTT
Hydrogen Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:34:00 - [170] Curiosity killed the cat... __ - click here -

Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:19:00 - [171] Another day passes, another sisi patch: still no change ffs. C. Piratise Low Sec! or Eve on Hard Mode (idea)
OOOSOOO	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:33:00 - [172] Originally by: Hydrogen Waaaah! Waaaah! I...I..I... wanna better ship. Eat a ****.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:02:00 - [173] Originally by: OOOSOOO Originally by: Hydrogen Waaaah! Waaaah! I...I..I... wanna better ship. Eat a ****. cake? Thx for the free bump C. Piratise Low Sec! or Eve on Hard Mode (idea)
Poco Curante Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:44:00 - [174] At what point does any Amarr ship ever become a compelling fleet member. Never.
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.03 08:59:00 - [175] Originally by: Poco Curante At what point does any Amarr ship ever become a compelling fleet member. Never. huh? Abaddon is best fleet ship imho, Geddon average but still okay. Curse used to make for awesome support fleet.
Hydrogen Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:20:00 - [176] Tbh, CCP's attitude is somehow weird. Amarr Recon Pilots were quite patient after the NOS nerf. In all other threads the point about both is communicated clearly, not offensive. Reasonably - quite contrary to other threads. Now when a Carrier change was announced, the reaction was constant and less reasonable - if at all. In the latter case quite an immediate reraction - here: no reaction at all. Not a word, not a change on Sisi, plain nothing. Is it really, that CCP prefers whining masses over reasonable players? I mean c'mon if CCP believes different, nothing stops them from stating Amarr Recons esspecially Pilgrim is fine. That would be at least a clear statement - instead: nothing at all. __ - click here -
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:44:00 - [177] Today we had a pilgrim gatecamping in FD-MLJ for quite some time racking up some kills on a few bcs and battleships. They are hardly borked atm. He couldn't stop swearing in local when 2 domis actually killed him. Does that tell you anything about how the pilgrim actually performs?
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:55:00 - [178] Originally by: pandymen Today we had a pilgrim gatecamping in FD-MLJ for quite some time racking up some kills on a few bcs and battleships. They are hardly borked atm. He couldn't stop swearing in local when 2 domis actually killed him. Does that tell you anything about how the pilgrim actually performs? Not really, no because we dont know how his target were fitted, the experience of the players, their skills or a host of other details. Nor is the player your example gives operating with the new EW modules & scripts. So your example is rather mute. Sure we can find examples of any ship getting kills - few ships simply can't, but the pilgrim is consistently at the wrong end of a nerf stick. Does the pilgrim need omgwtf boosts? No, it needs some attention to make it carry out its role. The Falcon has been given a helping hand: why not the pilgrim? C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.11.03 12:21:00 - [179] Originally by: pandymen Today we had a pilgrim gatecamping in FD-MLJ for quite some time racking up some kills on a few bcs and battleships. They are hardly borked atm. He couldn't stop swearing in local when 2 domis actually killed him. Does that tell you anything about how the pilgrim actually performs? That's an impressive feat for a Pilgrim (solo camping?) on a gate and as mentioned would probably say more about the pilot and his/her skills. However, I'd be interested in seeing the killmails. Any links or names you could give us?
Verton	Posted - 2007.11.03 18:28:00 - [180] Bump. The Pilgrim needs some serious love. EANM nerf = Ouch! NOS nerf = OMG! WTF? Two nerfs on one ship! /Verton/



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