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Titans are destroying the game. Remove the doomsday NOW.

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Malachon Draco	Posted - 2008.03.31 18:24:00 - [91] Why do we even care... With a bit of luck in 6 months a better MMO will come out and people will leave these guys behind wondering where the **** everyone in 0.0 went and they can feel uber again farming noobs. Just sad for CCP to let their game go down the drain due to one design failure, but thats not our problem.
Hey You	Posted - 2008.03.31 18:33:00 - [92] Why don't you threadnought about it... Oh wait... __________________________________ Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. We Ride Together We Die Together We Few, We Happy Few...
Malachon Draco	Posted - 2008.03.31 18:35:00 - [93] Originally by: Hey You Why don't you threadnought about it... Oh wait... Why dont you contact your dev buddies on MSN over it? Oh wait... Two can play that game.
Kingwood	Posted - 2008.03.31 18:38:00 - [94] I'd like a few Titans spawned for me. Kthx
Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.31 19:46:00 - [95] Originally by: Kerfira Wrong! Warfare involving titans is MAYBE 1% of what happens in 0.0. By FAR most of what happens in 0.0 is roaming gangs and fleet warfare. DD's are pretty damn rare, sometimes only happening a few times (if that) per week. Look at how stupid you are. http://www.killboard.net/player/Shrike/kills/ DD's being fired several times a week, even several times a day is very common, especially when strategic assets are at stake. 2 DD's fired in quick sequence in order to nuke battleship gangs attacking a pos are very common. When strategic assets are at stake, and one alliance has a titan, there will be DDs. Almost all fleet warefare in delve in the past month has involved 1 or more titans. --
maralt	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:03:00 - [96] Originally by: Draygo Korvan Originally by: Kerfira Wrong! Warfare involving titans is MAYBE 1% of what happens in 0.0. By FAR most of what happens in 0.0 is roaming gangs and fleet warfare. DD's are pretty damn rare, sometimes only happening a few times (if that) per week. Look at how stupid you are. http://www.killboard.net/player/Shrike/kills/ DD's being fired several times a week, even several times a day is very common, especially when strategic assets are at stake. 2 DD's fired in quick sequence in order to nuke battleship gangs attacking a pos are very common. When strategic assets are at stake, and one alliance has a titan, there will be DDs. Almost all fleet warefare in delve in the past month has involved 1 or more titans. So with all the titans the coalition has why do we not see their kill boards full of BOB fleet kills?.
Karina Bellac	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:07:00 - [97] Originally by: maralt Originally by: Draygo Korvan Originally by: Kerfira Wrong! Warfare involving titans is MAYBE 1% of what happens in 0.0. By FAR most of what happens in 0.0 is roaming gangs and fleet warfare. DD's are pretty damn rare, sometimes only happening a few times (if that) per week. Look at how stupid you are. http://www.killboard.net/player/Shrike/kills/ DD's being fired several times a week, even several times a day is very common, especially when strategic assets are at stake. 2 DD's fired in quick sequence in order to nuke battleship gangs attacking a pos are very common. When strategic assets are at stake, and one alliance has a titan, there will be DDs. Almost all fleet warefare in delve in the past month has involved 1 or more titans. So with all the titans the coalition has why do we not see their kill boards full of BOB fleet kills?. Cynojammers, duh.
Malachon Draco	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:08:00 - [98] Originally by: maralt Originally by: Draygo Korvan Originally by: Kerfira Wrong! Warfare involving titans is MAYBE 1% of what happens in 0.0. By FAR most of what happens in 0.0 is roaming gangs and fleet warfare. DD's are pretty damn rare, sometimes only happening a few times (if that) per week. Look at how stupid you are. http://www.killboard.net/player/Shrike/kills/ DD's being fired several times a week, even several times a day is very common, especially when strategic assets are at stake. 2 DD's fired in quick sequence in order to nuke battleship gangs attacking a pos are very common. When strategic assets are at stake, and one alliance has a titan, there will be DDs. Almost all fleet warefare in delve in the past month has involved 1 or more titans. So with all the titans the coalition has why do we not see their kill boards full of BOB fleet kills?. Because they are ******* about elsewhere and ignoring BoB. So you can't draw the conclusion that titans are not overpowered because they didn't kill many bobbits, since they are not in the warzone or anywhere near it. Now lets get back on topic. Why do you think that titan DDs would not pose a threat in the reasonably near future? So far all I see is a continueing shift towards more supercapitals, making the game less accessible for normal corps and players. What makes you think this shift will not continue? I'd really be interested in your honest opinion.
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:12:00 - [99] Edited by: maralt on 31/03/2008 20:21:47 Originally by: maralt So with all the titans the coalition has why do we not see their kill boards full of BOB fleet kills?. Originally by: Karina Bellac Cynojammers, duh. Like the one in qy6?, duh. Originally by: Malachon Draco Because they are ******* about elsewhere and ignoring BoB. So you can't draw the conclusion that titans are not overpowered because they didn't kill many bobbits, since they are not in the warzone or anywhere near it. So because the coalition is not willing to risk there larger expensive ships they are looking to nerf them instead making skilless blob spamming the only effective style of space taking and holding warfare in eve. At the moment to kill multiple titans and take out its support you need a well organized fleet and total and complete planning, timing and yes the thing that has stopped the coalition time and again the need to risk a lot of high value assets to kill a lot of high value assets. Grow a pair and get some good FC's.
Crohnx Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:16:00 - [100] WHINE MORE PLS!

Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:17:00 - [101] I find it hilarious that everyone else is using their titans. MM and RA and everyone else... and yet, the only people whining about it, are the goons. Everyone else is busy trying to trap them and work around it. There's a lesson there, for all of you. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:20:00 - [102] Originally by: Dianabolic I find it hilarious that everyone else is using their titans. MM and RA and everyone else... and yet, the only people whining about it, are the goons. Everyone else is busy trying to trap them and work around it. There's a lesson there, for all of you. Stop turning this into COAD FFS. This is not about BoB. I know Goons are doing stupid things, I don't give a ****. This is not about BoB even though you seem to believe everything HAS TO BE ABOUT YOU. It is not, get over yourself. Tell me Diana, how do you see 0.0 in a year from now. Can I get a prediction from you how many titans there will be and how that will affect 0.0 gameplay?
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:24:00 - [103] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dianabolic I find it hilarious that everyone else is using their titans. MM and RA and everyone else... and yet, the only people whining about it, are the goons. Everyone else is busy trying to trap them and work around it. There's a lesson there, for all of you. Stop turning this into COAD FFS. This is not about BoB. I know Goons are doing stupid things, I don't give a ****. This is not about BoB even though you seem to believe everything HAS TO BE ABOUT YOU. It is not, get over yourself. Tell me Diana, how do you see 0.0 in a year from now. Can I get a prediction from you how many titans there will be and how that will affect 0.0 gameplay? If its not a problem yet but will be in a year how about you STFU about it for 12 months, oh yes thats right getting them nerfed now will hurt the guys who reamed out ascn.
Rysith Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:26:00 - [104] Originally by: Malachon Draco What I would do with titans: Give them 8 highslots with turrets/launchers. - 600%-1000% damage bonus to capital weapons, no tracking penalty (like the dreadnaught siege bonus) - Tweak cap regen so they can run 3 reppers indefinitely when properly equipped with officermods, and give them the dreadnaught siege bonus. They should have a form of siegemode where they do burn a lot of fuel, but are not immobilized like dreads. - Give them 3m m3 cargobay - Give them 50m m3 ship hangar array - Let them field up to 25 fighters/drones at the same time with a bay that can hold 500 fighters. - Give them double the bonuses of the racial fleet command ship in terms of warfare links. - Remove DD. That would be a titan that can support an invasion all by itself. It would have the best defences of any capital ship. It would be able to do serious damage to enemy capitals and still defend itself against BS as well due to the lack of tracking penalty. It would be a beast to take down and a big bonus to any fleet to have around. But it would be much more acceptable than anything with a DD. Similar to what I would suggest (admittedly with no titan experience whatsoever. However, I would make three changes to what you suggested: 1) No local tank bonus/cap regen for three reppers. Instead, give a bonus to damage repaired from remote reppers, so that a carrier remote repping a titan repairs more than the same carrier remote repping a battleship. 2) Rather than removing the DD, change it to a single-target massive damage weapon. Enough firepower to severely damage a cap ship, kind of a waste if used on anything smaller. Very low tracking. 3) Remove the massive dronage. Maybe space for 5 fighters. They aren't carriers/motherships, and should not attempt to replace them. This sets titans as the centerpieces of a fleet, capable of neutralizing enemy cap ships and significantly boosting their own fleet, but only with a support fleet around to deal with subcapitals and keep the titan repaired. A single titan, or even a few, without a support fleet should be an expensive mistake. A titan with a support fleet should be capable of plowing through an enemy capital fleet while boosting its own fleet enough for them to take down the opposing support.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:27:00 - [105] Originally by: maralt If its not a problem yet but will be in a year how about you STFU about it for 12 months, oh yes thats right getting them nerfed now will hurt the guys who reamed out ascn. Umm, are you saying BoB can't beat Goonswarm without titans? The rest of the Coalition went home, remember...
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:29:00 - [106] The doomsday was a dumb idea and entirely contrary to the original idea of the Titan (mobile station/fleet command ship and flashy status symbol) but its here now. You can't just remove the weapon because of all the pilots who have trained Doomsday Operation. I do like the idea of the "E-War Doomsday" which would disrupt the hell out of enemy ships and leave them vulnerable to your gangmates, rather than the "a guy presses F1, 200 hostiles die" approach where not even your own fleet gets to take part in the fun except to pick off the pods and finish the handful of battleships who survived the doomsday with no shields or armour remaining. Its not an ideal solution however (the ideal solution involves going back in time 2 years and yelling at Devs). -----------
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:30:00 - [107] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: maralt If its not a problem yet but will be in a year how about you STFU about it for 12 months, oh yes thats right getting them nerfed now will hurt the guys who reamed out ascn. Umm, are you saying BoB can't beat Goonswarm without titans? The rest of the Coalition went home, remember... I thought you said everything was not about BOB?. And im sure i say a nerf would hurt BOB not that it would stop them from taking space from GOONS.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:32:00 - [108] Originally by: maralt Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: maralt If its not a problem yet but will be in a year how about you STFU about it for 12 months, oh yes thats right getting them nerfed now will hurt the guys who reamed out ascn. Umm, are you saying BoB can't beat Goonswarm without titans? The rest of the Coalition went home, remember... I thought you said everything was not about BOB?. And im sure i say a nerf would hurt BOB not that it would stop them from taking space from GOONS. Its not about BoB. I think nerfing titans at this point would **** off a ton of people, not just BOB but also the likes of MM, RA and AAA, and I think that it would make no difference in the conflict between BoB and Goons. Which is why I think this is the right moment to do it as it hurts a lot of different entities and still won't affect the outcome of the current conflict with the current combatants that are involved.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:33:00 - [109] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dianabolic I find it hilarious that everyone else is using their titans. MM and RA and everyone else... and yet, the only people whining about it, are the goons. Everyone else is busy trying to trap them and work around it. There's a lesson there, for all of you. Stop turning this into COAD FFS. This is not about BoB. I know Goons are doing stupid things, I don't give a ****. This is not about BoB even though you seem to believe everything HAS TO BE ABOUT YOU. It is not, get over yourself. Tell me Diana, how do you see 0.0 in a year from now. Can I get a prediction from you how many titans there will be and how that will affect 0.0 gameplay? Malachon, I've engaged in discussions about titans in the past. I agree they're broken. I agree they should be stations / capital killing behemoths. I don't think the dd should do "damage", I DO think it should just be an oversized BOMB (ie, sucks cap in its aoe etc etc etc). What I don't like, and I continue to laugh at - especially at people such as yourselves who say "this isn't about bob" is that the ONLY people WHINING about it are those that are fighting us. How about, less whining? The WAY that people are going about this is what I don't like, Malachon, but unfortunately it seems to work, so I dunno. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
HostageTaker Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:36:00 - [110] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: maralt Originally by: Draygo Korvan Originally by: Kerfira Wrong! Warfare involving titans is MAYBE 1% of what happens in 0.0. By FAR most of what happens in 0.0 is roaming gangs and fleet warfare. DD's are pretty damn rare, sometimes only happening a few times (if that) per week. Look at how stupid you are. http://www.killboard.net/player/Shrike/kills/ DD's being fired several times a week, even several times a day is very common, especially when strategic assets are at stake. 2 DD's fired in quick sequence in order to nuke battleship gangs attacking a pos are very common. When strategic assets are at stake, and one alliance has a titan, there will be DDs. Almost all fleet warefare in delve in the past month has involved 1 or more titans. So with all the titans the coalition has why do we not see their kill boards full of BOB fleet kills?. Because they are ******* about elsewhere and ignoring BoB. So you can't draw the conclusion that titans are not overpowered because they didn't kill many bobbits, since they are not in the warzone or anywhere near it. Now lets get back on topic. Why do you think that titan DDs would not pose a threat in the reasonably near future? So far all I see is a continueing shift towards more supercapitals, making the game less accessible for normal corps and players. What makes you think this shift will not continue? I'd really be interested in your honest opinion. According to the Devs, only 19% of EvE population is in 0.0 where the super-caps reside. 81% is in Empire, I'd say the game is accessible for normal corps and players. Oh and eL OH eL @ this thread. >>> EvE-Online Wallpapers <<<

Kingwood The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:37:00 - [111] Oh hey, Maralt, I noticed you didn't answer my question. I'm sure you overlooked it. Let me ask again: How do you beat a 8 Titan, 110 Cap fleet with 700 in local and a lot of lag?
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:40:00 - [112] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dianabolic I find it hilarious that everyone else is using their titans. MM and RA and everyone else... and yet, the only people whining about it, are the goons. Everyone else is busy trying to trap them and work around it. There's a lesson there, for all of you. Stop turning this into COAD FFS. This is not about BoB. I know Goons are doing stupid things, I don't give a ****. This is not about BoB even though you seem to believe everything HAS TO BE ABOUT YOU. It is not, get over yourself. Tell me Diana, how do you see 0.0 in a year from now. Can I get a prediction from you how many titans there will be and how that will affect 0.0 gameplay? Malachon, I've engaged in discussions about titans in the past. I agree they're broken. I agree they should be stations / capital killing behemoths. I don't think the dd should do "damage", I DO think it should just be an oversized BOMB (ie, sucks cap in its aoe etc etc etc). What I don't like, and I continue to laugh at - especially at people such as yourselves who say "this isn't about bob" is that the ONLY people WHINING about it are those that are fighting us. How about, less whining? The WAY that people are going about this is what I don't like, Malachon, but unfortunately it seems to work, so I dunno. I am not fighting you and havent been for quite a while. I took a few months vacation from Eve and since I got back we have shot everyone. I think I killed quite a few more Goons than BoB since I got back to be honest. And if you really want to know what really made me pause and think. Its not your 8 titans. Its Morsus Mihi. They have never held more than 1 region. Their region is not even that good. And yet, here they are with 5+ titans. Now if an alliance like MM can produce 5+ titans, what does that tell you in terms of how easy it has become to build them, and how attractive they really are in terms of alliance warfare? I can see the flaws in the Goons method of fighting at the moment. I am not sure how or why they are doing it, but the flaws are pretty obvious. But that does not change the fundamental issue with titans. I can understand you not wanting to discuss it while you keep fighting Goons, but lets face it, this war ain't over by a longshot. Goons have a ton of real estate with Sov 3/4, really close to lots of their buddies RA. Regardless how much you beat the crap out of them, killing them will take a long time even if you eventually succeed. By that time there will be tons and tons of titans flying around, making nerfing them all the more painful. What I would much rather see is a reasoned debate of what titans should look like and be able to do right now, instead of a needed change/fix/nerf that CCP eventually have to implement. And I don't think anyone wants a rush job on that.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:40:00 - [113] Originally by: Kingwood Oh hey, Maralt, I noticed you didn't answer my question. I'm sure you overlooked it. Let me ask again: How do you beat a 8 Titan, 110 Cap fleet with 700 in local and a lot of lag? Stop them getting in there in the first place. Haven't you learnt anything from fighting us? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:41:00 - [114] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: maralt Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: maralt If its not a problem yet but will be in a year how about you STFU about it for 12 months, oh yes thats right getting them nerfed now will hurt the guys who reamed out ascn. Umm, are you saying BoB can't beat Goonswarm without titans? The rest of the Coalition went home, remember... I thought you said everything was not about BOB?. And im sure i say a nerf would hurt BOB not that it would stop them from taking space from GOONS. Its not about BoB. I think nerfing titans at this point would **** off a ton of people, not just BOB but also the likes of MM, RA and AAA, and I think that it would make no difference in the conflict between BoB and Goons. Which is why I think this is the right moment to do it as it hurts a lot of different entities and still won't affect the outcome of the current conflict with the current combatants that are involved. Multiple titans at the moment force large fleets/blobs to coordinate the timing and range of tacklers, capital ships, conventional ships and use and have reserves of all three ready to warp in instead of just blob spamming to gain space. A nerf would just allow numbers without any real planning or coordination to take over and that sucks. The reason why ppl complain about multiple titans is because they do not have the skill to plan such an engagement or the willingness to risk high isk assets in such an engagement. Titans do not need nerfing those that want to fight and destroy them just need to learn how to plan a campaign and of course grow a pair and risk there own high value ships.
Kingwood The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:42:00 - [115] Also, this is not about BoB vs. GS, it's about the Doomsday being fundamentally broken. The war is just highlighting this, and a year from now this will affect more alliances than just BoB and GS. Maybe I'll still be around when the first Cap Fleet gets nuked to hell by 30 titans. Also, saving the responses for future reference when GS gets their multiple Titans out. I'm out of this thread, it's turning into CAOD.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.31 20:43:00 - [116] Originally by: HostageTaker According to the Devs, only 19% of EvE population is in 0.0 where the super-caps reside. 81% is in Empire, I'd say the game is accessible for normal corps and players. Oh and eL OH eL @ this thread. How many characters do you have in Empire compared to 0.0? I can tell you a majority of mine is in Empire. And yet I consider myself a 0.0 inhabitant above all else.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.31 21:07:00 - [117] Originally by: Draygo Korvan Originally by: Kerfira Wrong! Warfare involving titans is MAYBE 1% of what happens in 0.0. By FAR most of what happens in 0.0 is roaming gangs and fleet warfare. DD's are pretty damn rare, sometimes only happening a few times (if that) per week. Look at how stupid you are. http://www.killboard.net/player/Shrike/kills/ DD's being fired several times a week, even several times a day is very common, especially when strategic assets are at stake. 2 DD's fired in quick sequence in order to nuke battleship gangs attacking a pos are very common. When strategic assets are at stake, and one alliance has a titan, there will be DDs. Almost all fleet warefare in delve in the past month has involved 1 or more titans. And look at how you don't know math! (see, I can do the insult game too, however in my case I'm actually basing my arguments on facts) Just because you happen to encounter DD's a lot when your FC stupidly throws your fleet into them doesn't in any way, shape, form or fashion mean they're common. I had this discussion with Malachon in another thread, and I showed that at that time (sometime last week), even BoB with their 8/9 titans had only used DD's approximately one day per week during the previous 2 months. That IS rare by any measure you can use. An oh, since your coalition has more titans than BoB, why aren't they whining? Just stop trying to get the game changed just because you come up against players that're better than you. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.31 21:08:00 - [118] Originally by: Kingwood Also, this is not about BoB vs. GS, it's about the Doomsday being fundamentally broken. The war is just highlighting this, and a year from now this will affect more alliances than just BoB and GS. Maybe I'll still be around when the first Cap Fleet gets nuked to hell by 30 titans. Also, saving the responses for future reference when GS gets their multiple Titans out. I'm out of this thread, it's turning into CAOD. Kingwood, a couple of things for you: 1 - it would take 55+ to one shot a dread (according to our setups) - just some trivia for you. 2 - All of us in BoB command agree the titan is broken. We just think it needs to be fixed differently. We also agree that jammers should be looked at. When CCP introduced constellational sov it compressed the space which pilots wanted to "keep". When they introduced jammers, it increased the amount they were ABLE to keep. For the good of the game, that needs to be reversed. But I'll tell you this - us having titans means we have a better chance of standing up to the uber-blob you were throwing at us for just over a year. You can sit there and say "it ain't fair" about the doomsday until you're blue in the face, but nor is it "fair" when, to guarantee victory, ANY side is able to pull a jv1v scenario and crash the node just to achieve a result. Titans allow us to prevent that, and rightfully so. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.31 21:10:00 - [119] Edited by: Kerfira on 31/03/2008 21:15:22 Originally by: Kingwood Oh hey, I see you were in QY6 yesterday too. Soz, since you're obviously an able FC, tell me how to take out 9 titans and 110 Caps in a system with 700 in local. (Without me having to bring in 10 titans and 120 Caps). Please explain: Why on earth should you be able to counter a superior fleet with an inferior one? If you leave the titans out of your numbers, how would you think you should counter the situation of 700 in local and 110 caps? If you're true to your previous statement, you probably think you should be able to handle that with 100 conventional and 50 caps.... Originally by: Kingwood Good job bringing CAOD into here. TBH, I'd say your side started that in the first place by trying to get the game changed just because you're run into someone you can't beat. Your side have more titans than BoB and still you're the ones crying Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kerfira	Posted - 2008.03.31 21:23:00 - [120] Originally by: Dianabolic But I'll tell you this - us having titans means we have a better chance of standing up to the uber-blob you were throwing at us for just over a year. You can sit there and say "it ain't fair" about the doomsday until you're blue in the face, but nor is it "fair" when, to guarantee victory, ANY side is able to pull a jv1v scenario and crash the node just to achieve a result. Titans allow us to prevent that, and rightfully so. Nice example... If I remember correctly, titans and DD's were introduced as a crowd control feature for this very purpose. This has insured that EVE basically functions like it always has, and that to kill an alliance you have to kill their morale, usually by being better pilots than them. Gang/fleet combat are still overwhelmingly what happens in this game in 0.0. This is how the game SHOULD be! It shouldn't just be a game where the objective is to gather more people than your opponent! It should be a game where individual pilot capabilities, motivation, equipment, FC abilities, pilot discipline, tactics and strategy decides who wins. Titans and DD's contributes to that by making sure that a well motivated smaller alliance can still defend against someone zerg'ing them. CCP wanted more stability in 0.0, and has by and large got it, with a significant contribution from titans. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.



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