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Kingwood
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.03 21:06:00 -
[361]
 Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Kingwood
If someone wants to fly a subcapital, why are they automatically excluded from attacking anything including a Titan? That's what drew me to Eve initially, that even a clueless new player in a frig could already tackle and play an important role in a fleet. Titans changed that, and it's not a change for the better.
There is nothing stopping anybody from attacking anything in anything in eve but if you go against certain ships in certain ships your gonna get you ass handed to you and if you go up against several of these ships more fool you.
And do not play the "i cannot kill titans in a frig EVE no longer has meaning for me" thing cos its just silly.
If I'm in a subcapital attacking a Titan I expect to be pretty much worthless, but I'm adding my few DPS anyway. Noone is arguing it should be easy, it just shouldn't be the case of "push button, blow away 300 ships". Is that so hard to understand?
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Kingwood
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.03 21:07:00 -
[362]
Edited by: Kingwood on 03/04/2008 21:14:01
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 03/04/2008 21:06:29
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: Traeon
Exactly. Why shouldn't HACs and Recons be able to kill a Titan? They're still going to do a pretty horrible job compared to dreads, but why shouldn't they be able to do it at all?
lol read your own snip ffs.
It would be easier to take you more seriously if you actually posted with your main.
Edit: Unnecessary sentence
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maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.03 21:12:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Kingwood
If someone wants to fly a subcapital, why are they automatically excluded from attacking anything including a Titan? That's what drew me to Eve initially, that even a clueless new player in a frig could already tackle and play an important role in a fleet. Titans changed that, and it's not a change for the better.
There is nothing stopping anybody from attacking anything in anything in eve but if you go against certain ships in certain ships your gonna get you ass handed to you and if you go up against several of these ships more fool you.
And do not play the "i cannot kill titans in a frig EVE no longer has meaning for me" thing cos its just silly.
If I'm in a subcapital attacking a Titan I expect to be pretty much worthless, but I'm adding my few DPS anyway. Noone is arguing it should be easy, it just shouldn't be the case of "push button, blow away 300 ships". Is that so hard to understand?
You act like they just sit there solo popping off loads with nothing else on grid to tackle or shoot at. And its push button pop 300 ships that were daft enough to fly into range and not be able to tank it. Why is that so hard to understand?.
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Julius Romanus
Fatalix Inc.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.03 21:13:00 -
[364]
Cooldowntimer: 1hr
Keep the other drawback timer(s) at 10min. Hell DAOC had pretty much the same thing, PBAOE caster + with mastery of concentration + Castle stairs. With a few people doing it, it was great for some killspam but wouldnt break a siege. With enough people however, you could stop just about anything short of the entire server. Thing was, only worked once an hour.
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For Medicinal Use Only. |
maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.03 21:13:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: Traeon
Exactly. Why shouldn't HACs and Recons be able to kill a Titan? They're still going to do a pretty horrible job compared to dreads, but why shouldn't they be able to do it at all?
lol read your own snip ffs.
You have the reading comprehension of a 12 year old. It would be easier to take you more seriously if you actually posted with your main.
He said exactly that and im the one with reading comprehension?.
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Kingwood
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Posted - 2008.04.03 21:28:00 -
[366]
Originally by: maralt
And my arguments would be the same on my main the only difference would be that you would avoid my point by trying to discredit my main. Deal with the points made do'nt avoid them with alt insults cos ive never mentioned the fact that your a goon and that they have a certain "style" of 0.0 warfare shall we say .
I'm not trying to discredit your main, I'm trying to see where your opinion comes from. If you're an empire dweller I'm not gonna put much weight on your opinion. If you live in 0.0 and know what you're talking about, it's easier to take your points more seriously.
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maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.03 21:42:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: maralt
And my arguments would be the same on my main the only difference would be that you would avoid my point by trying to discredit my main. Deal with the points made do'nt avoid them with alt insults cos ive never mentioned the fact that your a goon and that they have a certain "style" of 0.0 warfare shall we say.
I'm not trying to discredit your main, I'm trying to see where your opinion comes from. If you're an empire dweller I'm not gonna put much weight on your opinion. If you live in 0.0 and know what you're talking about, it's easier to take your points more seriously.
If you know what your talking about then you will understand my points and while perhaps disagree with them also respect them as knowledgeable, knowing who my main is should be irrelevant under those circumstances.
Although i am a near 5 year xp pvper have fought in 0.0 for most of those years (although with breaks) and i have led and planned many large scale fleet ops some including titans and against them. I post with a alt to avoid arguments about how much knowledge ppl have or do not have on subjects and force them to focus on the material posted. And i also never comment on a persons alliance in regard to their opinion/postings unless replying to a similar insult or acusation.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.03 21:49:00 -
[368]
Just make it so only 1 DD can be fired on a single grid every 60 mins... ?
Removing them completely is a stupid idea. 8 Titans is a huge investment. There should be some advantage in owning them, don't you think?
...
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Ort Lofthus
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Posted - 2008.04.03 22:52:00 -
[369]
First: Titans are most valuable as a logistical tool, then as a terror weapon, and lastly for the effect of the DDD.
Just as bane glorious predicted in his titan thread, they have become numerous and the last DDD nerf (increasing titan vulnerability) was insufficient. Simple situation right now is that the DDD becomes exponentially more powerful the more you have.
I'll postulate that simply having the DDD do damage at all is overpowered for the following reason: If you halve the damage it does, then twice as many titans bring us to where we are now: overpowered DDD. Furthermore, reducing the power of the DDD actually favors those who own multiple titans and hurts those who only have one. Removal of the DDD is impossible simply because at this point in EvE it is hard to justify anything's removal, paticularly something as expensive and skill intensive as the DDD. Therefore, the DDD should simply be rebalanced to have a non-damaging effect.
Ideas for the revised effect:
Minmatar: Deadspace effect or webbification at the target location for a period of time.
Gallente: Sensor dampening for a period of time. Something like 50% reduction in range and scan resolution. Forces closer engagements but still allows 'sniping' at shorter distances.
Amarr: This is a hard one. Mega-Neut is hard to balance with ship sizes from frigs to caps. TD effect is interesting because locking range is maintained, but hurts all gunboats. Warp disruption is a great effect and synergistic with the other effects, but is properly a gallente EWAR (and damps are too good of a DDD effect to leave out). I would probably go with warp disruption.
Caldari: Periodic ECM burst at the location. Favors ships that fit ECCM, in particular capital ships and battleships.
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Acidictadpole
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Posted - 2008.04.03 22:53:00 -
[370]
I think the fix should entail something that prevents multiple (maybe more than 2 DD's) from being set off in a grid within a certain time.
The reason could be attributed to how the doomsday damage propagates and it can't work again if it's been used recently in the same area.
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Maliber
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Posted - 2008.04.03 23:29:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Kingwood
If someone wants to fly a subcapital, why are they automatically excluded from attacking anything including a Titan? That's what drew me to Eve initially, that even a clueless new player in a frig could already tackle and play an important role in a fleet. Titans changed that, and it's not a change for the better.
There is nothing stopping anybody from attacking anything in anything in eve but if you go against certain ships in certain ships your gonna get you ass handed to you and if you go up against several of these ships more fool you.
And do not play the "i cannot kill titans in a frig EVE no longer has meaning for me" thing cos its just silly.
If I'm in a subcapital attacking a Titan I expect to be pretty much worthless, but I'm adding my few DPS anyway. Noone is arguing it should be easy, it just shouldn't be the case of "push button, blow away 300 ships". Is that so hard to understand?
lols a dd isnt hard to survive and a its certainly nothing to do with blow away 300 ships....
except when facing goons in t1 cruisers it does 200% damage and rightfully so...
should be like eleventy111thousand in my book tho including a threadnoaght... after all the forum manipulation you guys tried.
Go cry me a river....
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Traeon
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Posted - 2008.04.04 00:22:00 -
[372]
Edited by: Traeon on 04/04/2008 00:22:58
Quote:
I think the fix should entail something that prevents multiple (maybe more than 2 DD's) from being set off in a grid within a certain time.
DD spam can be abused in ways that do not involve the titans to stay on the same grid, so that would only be a partial fix.
Let me sum up and expand on my previous posts here about balancing the doomsday machine:
Diminishing returns feature, ie. space in an entire system becomes "depleted" after a DD is fired and for the next hour subsequent DD's do less damage. First DD does 100% damage, next one 50%, third does 25% and so forth. This puts a stop to the DD spam while not making multiple titans completely useless. Here's a chart that shows how much damage simultaneous DD's would do:
1x 70000
2x 105000
3x 122500
4x 131250
5x 135625
6x 137812
7x 138906
A typical "doomsday proof" fleet BS has anywhere between 80 to 115k effective hp depending on the damage type received according to my EFT. That's with 4 slots dedicated to tanking. Gang skills and mods would increase this somewhat in practice. For a BS at least even several doomsdays would be tankable if the damage type received was favorable or they were specifically tanked against it.
A well tanked HICtor would be able to live through several to infinite simultaneous DD's, which is just how it should have been all along in my opinion.
In short titans couldn't "do the job" by themselves anymore (or at least only kill those ships particularely vulnerable to their DD damage type) and would need their own subcap fleet to capitalize on the situation, finishing off the heavily damaged battleships. Dictors would also be more important.
All in all, it sounds like this change would create a more acceptable scenario for a subcapital pilot without making DD's worthless.
There is one other aspect though that needs to looked at and it's about frigate/dictor pilots. Even without DD's they're almost certainly going to lose their ships in a fleet battle anyway, so I think there needs to be a mechanic that protects them against DD's. HACs/Recons are also very vulnerable.
What's needed here is a new ship attribute that determines the amount of damage a DD does to a ship. This would otherwise work exactly the same way as explosion radius and ship signature radius do for missile damage calculation. Why not use signature radius though? Signature radius can simply vary too much ingame (MWD's, target painters, evasive maneuvers ganglink, halo implants and the effect of a minmatar titan).
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.04 14:31:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
I think you focus too much on 2 instances on where it happened. People never blobbed hugely except in the very exceptional circumstances of F-T and JV1V.
I actually don't think about these two at all. I'm more thinking about the cases where you have like 10+ minute load/module lag..... These will generally happen whenever 200-300 or more people are shooting each other.
Originally by: Malachon Draco
The most fun I had in Eve was in fleetfights of say 100 to 200 on each side. And I think that goes for a lot of people, both on the Coalition side as on BoB side. I've had those in plenty of wars and they were great, especially in systems where the fighting had been going on for a while since then the lag is a bit less. That era is ending, due to the DD.
I don't agree that's the reason. The real reason IMHO is that with todays server mechanics, if 150 jumps into another 150, the 150 jumping in will loose at least half (maybe all) of their force before they start to load.....
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Now I agree with you point that excessive blobs should not be able to rule Eve just by force of numbers alone. But seeing how that only really happened twice, and both times over a titan, and considering how many of the really great fleetfights are being ruined, and will only be ruined to a greater degree in the future by titan DDs, I strongly feel that the Doomsday is not a proportional or good method to prevent the megablob. Even if CCP can't fix the POS/sovereignty stuff to nullify the need for huge blobs, I think there has to be a better way to prevent megablobs.
How? (ps, I don't agree on the 'twice' part. Its happened a lot more, though not to the same degree)
I don't think your jumpgate restriction will work, oddly enough because of titans (jump bridge). I can also see people jumping back/forth to defend/attack/annoy. Number limits on anything never really works because it's too easy to abuse.
Originally by: James Duar
Oh and, pro-tip - if the DDD kills everything up to battleships with equal effectiveness (it does after 2-3) then NO IT DOES NOT PROMOTE BRINGING HIGHER VALUE SHIPS.
Why not?
Last I looked dreads and carriers were higher value than battleships, and didn't get notably affected by any abilities of a titan (incl. DD).
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Once your enemy has a fleet of 250+ ships including a titan in a system, its no longer neccesarily a poor decision or a sign of bad FCing if you get DDed. Its a roll of the dice.
And then again, if their titan gets hit by lag, you get yourself a shiny new titan killmail. Its not just a gamble for the side without a titan.....
Originally by: Malachon Draco
How would you prevent a conventional fleet from not getting in range of a DD? Lets say I am in a titan in the system. I have a POS here and I have a cloak and a few covert ops in gang. How do you keep your conventional fleet out of range of my DD? Give me an strategy (one that does not entail huddling inside a POS shield all day long).
Scanning will normally work unless you happen to warp to where he is.
Not warping all at once is another good one. Then you'll have ships even if he DD's.
Being aligned to warp out is another good one (so many people forget this).
Having a solid backup fleet and caps on standby will make most titan pilots quite careful.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.04 14:32:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Traeon
Titans are killable yes, but you'll need a cap fleet if there are several titans in system. That's the complaint. People don't want capitals online, they want to be able to take part in fights without spending half a year to train for a ship that's useless for anything else.
So because a ship type is nearly useless in fighting another type of ship, the ship it is useless against should be nerfed?
Damn, all those combat ships should be nerfed since haulers are useless against them!
Quite a lot of people HAVE trained for caps (otherwise why all the whining about 'capitals online') but that hasn't removed the usability of conventional ships much (if at all). They're still suppreme for most fleet fights as well as roaming (and this is by far most of what goes on in 0.0).
Capitals just added another layer on top of the challenge pyramid, but didn't noticably touch what was there before.
Originally by: Traeon
The right question is if said FC would prefer to have an all titan/carrier/dread fleet with a handful HICs/dictors and covops or a more mixed fleet with say half of the cap pilots in t2 sniper bs or HACs. For POS warfare obviously.
If he doesn't choose option 2, eventually he'll end up with a lot of dead capitals....
Originally by: Kingwood
I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. How is a fleet consisting of Titans and Cap support vulnerable to sniping BS's?
The hard part is understanding why you are so afraid to commit your capital ships to kill those titans.....
When I want to drive in a nail, I don't select a screwdriver to do it with....
Using the right tool for a job usually makes it a lot easier....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.04.04 14:42:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Traeon
Let me sum up and expand on my previous posts here about balancing the doomsday machine:
Diminishing returns feature, ie. space in an entire system becomes "depleted" after a DD is fired and for the next hour subsequent DD's do less damage. First DD does 100% damage, next one 50%, third does 25% and so forth. This puts a stop to the DD spam while not making multiple titans completely useless.
It does make DD's useless if you're against someone else with them too.....
All one has to do is pre-emptively blowing one or even two of them at the place one intends the battle to be fought....
Stacking limits never works if they are cumulative for both sides as they're always exploitable..... (ie. one party drinking all the free beer before the other is ready)
I still can't see why someone willing to commit 100b's of ISK worth of hardware shouldn't be able to be relative immune unless the opponent commits similar resources.....
Other capitals are devastating to titans, but the scenario always brought forth is the BS vs. Titan, which to be quite honest is pretty bad tactics (to say it politely...).
Use your conventional fleet to cut off hostile reinforcements while your capitals kill their cap's & titans...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Ambien Torca
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Posted - 2008.04.04 15:19:00 -
[376]
How do you get your caps in first?
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Bozse
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.04 16:55:00 -
[377]
Actually reducing DD range to something reasonable like 30km sounds like a passable idea.
Not as a single sollution as it's way to big of a nerf.
Combine it with the following and you have a reasonable remake of the DD.
Ideas for the revised effect:
Minmatar: Deadspace effect or webbification at the target location for a period of time.
Gallente: Sensor dampening for a period of time. Something like 50% reduction in range and scan resolution. Forces closer engagements but still allows 'sniping' at shorter distances.
Amarr: This is a hard one. Mega-Neut is hard to balance with ship sizes from frigs to caps. TD effect is interesting because locking range is maintained, but hurts all gunboats. Warp disruption is a great effect and synergistic with the other effects, but is properly a gallente EWAR (and damps are too good of a DDD effect to leave out). I would probably go with warp disruption.
Caldari: Periodic ECM burst at the location. Favors ships that fit ECCM, in particular capital ships and battleships.
Web effect perhaps sound cool but is fairly useless unless combined with scrambling effect at the same time as web only helps you align faster for warpout, TD / SD / ECM works aswell, Neut can be a bit tricky unless you use a set % deduction.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
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ca chinger
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:12:00 -
[378]
Originally by: FERRET MAN
No subcapital can tank more than two doomsdays. You cannot pin down a Titan with a heavy dictor because three of his buddies will simply doomsday the heavy dictors away. You cannot have waves of ships ready because then can just continuously doomsday your support away. You cannot siege towers. You cannot repair towers. You cannot jump through a gate. You cannot jump bridge in. You cannot log in. You cannot DO ANYTHING AT ALL.
so cos you cant work out a way around it you cry more tears and for nerfs?
if you dont like it then dont play with them in the first place. just a FYI a heavy dictor can tank upto 3 dd's if you know how to set them up for it.
i'm not going to tell how you to combat it b'cos if you cant work it out yourself then you have no clue about how this game really works and should just quit instead of whine
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maralt
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:15:00 -
[379]
Reducing it down to 200km should be the most if its gonna be reduced at all, at least then it will stop ppl from bringing a crap load of frigs and cruisers to own 0.0 and force ppl to at least improve there fleets.
Personally i think its ok as it is.
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Kingwood
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:16:00 -
[380]
Edited by: Kingwood on 04/04/2008 17:16:23
Originally by: ca chinger
Originally by: FERRET MAN
No subcapital can tank more than two doomsdays. You cannot pin down a Titan with a heavy dictor because three of his buddies will simply doomsday the heavy dictors away. You cannot have waves of ships ready because then can just continuously doomsday your support away. You cannot siege towers. You cannot repair towers. You cannot jump through a gate. You cannot jump bridge in. You cannot log in. You cannot DO ANYTHING AT ALL.
so cos you cant work out a way around it you cry more tears and for nerfs?
if you dont like it then dont play with them in the first place. just a FYI a heavy dictor can tank upto 3 dd's if you know how to set them up for it.
i'm not going to tell how you to combat it b'cos if you cant work it out yourself then you have no clue about how this game really works and should just quit instead of whine
Oh hey, tell me how to tank a hictor for 4 DD's. Tell me how to tank a BS for 4 DD's. Tia
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Kingwood
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:21:00 -
[381]
Originally by: maralt
Reducing it down to 200km should be the most if its gonna be reduced at all, at least then it will stop ppl from bringing a crap load of frigs and cruisers to own 0.0 and force ppl to at least improve there fleets.
Personally i think its ok as it is.
So what you're saying is that new players should stay in Empire and Low Sec for 2 years, and only then move to 0.0? Great idea.
One of the big points of Eve is that you're useful as a 2-week old newbie in a tackling frigate. Titans and their doomsdays change that. You really think this is for the better?
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maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:23:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: ca chinger
Originally by: FERRET MAN
No subcapital can tank more than two doomsdays. You cannot pin down a Titan with a heavy dictor because three of his buddies will simply doomsday the heavy dictors away. You cannot have waves of ships ready because then can just continuously doomsday your support away. You cannot siege towers. You cannot repair towers. You cannot jump through a gate. You cannot jump bridge in. You cannot log in. You cannot DO ANYTHING AT ALL.
so cos you cant work out a way around it you cry more tears and for nerfs?
if you dont like it then dont play with them in the first place. just a FYI a heavy dictor can tank upto 3 dd's if you know how to set them up for it.
i'm not going to tell how you to combat it b'cos if you cant work it out yourself then you have no clue about how this game really works and should just quit instead of whine
Oh hey, tell me how to tank a hictor for 4 DD's. Tell me how to tank a BS for 4 DD's. Tia
1 cannot tank 4 but 2 can tank 6, 3 can tank 9.......
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maralt
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:35:00 -
[383]
Edited by: maralt on 04/04/2008 17:36:58
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: maralt
Reducing it down to 200km should be the most if its gonna be reduced at all, at least then it will stop ppl from bringing a crap load of frigs and cruisers to own 0.0 and force ppl to at least improve there fleets.
Personally i think its ok as it is.
So what you're saying is that new players should stay in Empire and Low Sec for 2 years, and only then move to 0.0? Great idea.
One of the big points of Eve is that you're useful as a 2-week old newbie in a tackling frigate. Titans and their doomsdays change that. You really think this is for the better?
I think that if a bunch of "2-week old noobies" as you call them put together an alliance they should not be able to beat a full 0.0 alliance with capitals, titans, MS. Unless there membership includes caps, titans, MS.......... its called balance.
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Kingwood
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:40:00 -
[384]
Edited by: Kingwood on 04/04/2008 17:40:46
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: maralt
Reducing it down to 200km should be the most if its gonna be reduced at all, at least then it will stop ppl from bringing a crap load of frigs and cruisers to own 0.0 and force ppl to at least improve there fleets.
Personally i think its ok as it is.
So what you're saying is that new players should stay in Empire and Low Sec for 2 years, and only then move to 0.0? Great idea.
One of the big points of Eve is that you're useful as a 2-week old newbie in a tackling frigate. Titans and their doomsdays change that. You really think this is for the better?
I think that if a bunch of "2-week old noobies" as you call them put together an alliance they should not be able to beat a full 0.0 alliance with capitals, titans, MS. Unless there membership includes caps, titans, MS.......... ITS CALLED BALANCE.
I'm not saying it's all 2-week old players establishing an alliance themselves. I'm asking you what use those 2-week old players are once they join an already established alliance. They are useless in any fleet-fight involving Titans. They are mostly useless in any fleet-fight involving Capitals. You call this balance? Obviously they could freeload and rat for 2 years. Yeah, great fun.
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maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:48:00 -
[385]
Edited by: maralt on 04/04/2008 17:52:08
Originally by: Kingwood
I'm not saying it's all 2-week old players establishing an alliance themselves. I'm asking you what use those 2-week old players are once they join an already established players. They are useless in any fleet-fight involving Titans. They are mostly useless in any fleet-fight involving Capitals. You call this balance? Obviously they could freeload and rat for 2 years. Yeah, great fun.
Mostly useless as in able to damp or scram a cap ship after the DDD has fired?. Plus fast to warp in a frig/cruiser and easily able to avoid the DDD in the first place.
Theres plenty of things in 0.0 warfare for a noob to do and plenty that they cannot do because of there skill level and available ships. The titan cannot be tackled by anything apart from a dic or hic even without the DDD so a frig/cruiser is totally worthless against a titan even if it had DDD immunity.
The titan/DDD stops ppl from zerging 0.0 systems and that is a very good thing for eve and all players who want to improve.
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Traeon
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Posted - 2008.04.04 20:23:00 -
[386]
Edited by: Traeon on 04/04/2008 20:25:04
Originally by: Bozse
Actually reducing DD range to something reasonable like 30km sounds like a passable idea.
Not as a single sollution as it's way to big of a nerf.
Yea I wasn't being completely serious and apologize for it. Making DD's ewar modules seems pretty big role change, but the concept is fine. The problem is though that people are still encouraged to mass titans if they can. What's better than a caldari titan doing 250km ECM bursts? 2 caldari titans? and what's even better 3 of them and so on...
On th plus side DD'ing would really be pointless without a support fleet.
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Bozse
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Posted - 2008.04.04 22:06:00 -
[387]
Yea I wasn't being completely serious and apologize for it. Making DD's ewar modules seems pretty big role change, but the concept is fine. The problem is though that people are still encouraged to mass titans if they can. What's better than a caldari titan doing 250km ECM bursts? 2 caldari titans? and what's even better 3 of them and so on...
On th plus side DD'ing would really be pointless without a support fleet.
The idea with the different EW effects isn't refined in any way and have to be concidered but it's the most viable change i can see atm for the DD, for the stacking issue id say make them simply not stack, then the multiple titans would give you an advantage that you can fire them in a row but stacking them at the same time doesn't cause an issue.
The reason to keep the 30-40k range of the current DD is as either a strategical weapon with high risk due to the range or as the last resort to clear tacklers if pined down.
All the super caps needs to be reworked imo as the MS lacks a clearcut role and both titans and MS lacks in the tanking department, especialy with the doubble fix to scramble them (imo heavy dictors was a good sollution or the dictor bubbles, both was an overkill)
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
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Angelonico
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Posted - 2008.04.05 04:50:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Bozse
Yea I wasn't being completely serious and apologize for it. Making DD's ewar modules seems pretty big role change, but the concept is fine. The problem is though that people are still encouraged to mass titans if they can. What's better than a caldari titan doing 250km ECM bursts? 2 caldari titans? and what's even better 3 of them and so on...
On th plus side DD'ing would really be pointless without a support fleet.
The idea with the different EW effects isn't refined in any way and have to be concidered but it's the most viable change i can see atm for the DD, for the stacking issue id say make them simply not stack, then the multiple titans would give you an advantage that you can fire them in a row but stacking them at the same time doesn't cause an issue.
The reason to keep the 30-40k range of the current DD is as either a strategical weapon with high risk due to the range or as the last resort to clear tacklers if pined down.
All the super caps needs to be reworked imo as the MS lacks a clearcut role and both titans and MS lacks in the tanking department, especialy with the doubble fix to scramble them (imo heavy dictors was a good sollution or the dictor bubbles, both was an overkill)
Damn fine suggestions - boost super cap tanks (I think everyone agrees on that) the method is a bit tricker. Extra bonus? Bonus to remote reps on it? etc.
The problem with e-war DDD's is that the caldari/amarr ones would clearly dwarf their mim/gallente counterparts.
Cyno jammers using CPU and having an increased anchoring delay, supercap tanks being buffed (the method being up for debate of course), and DDD's being tweaked in one direction or another.
I think all sides, other than the trolls of course, can agree on some of those basic points.
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Angelonico
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Posted - 2008.04.05 04:59:00 -
[389]
Double post as I realized I actually typed this.
"I openly encourage bob AND goons to keep posting constructively. This thread has potential in more ways than one."
I think that sentence entering any thread on an EVE forum might cause some sort of CAOD existential meltdown.
We can only pray.
Thanks - Hutch
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Kagura Nikon
Infinity Enterprises
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.04.05 11:28:00 -
[390]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 04/04/2008 17:20:05
Reducing it down to 200km should be the most if its gonna be reduced at all, at least then it will stop ppl from bringing a crap load of frigs and cruisers to own 0.0 and force ppl to at least improve there fleets.
Personally i think its ok as it is and ppl are whining before multi titans have been tested properly.
reducing it to under snaper range woudl be at least a good thing because will indeed have that effect . Givign battleshisp a fightign chance, slim but a fighting chance. PERSONALLY I woudl diminish to 180 km to be fair with all flavors of snipers (not all can fight over 200 km)
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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