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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Mana Sanqua
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:32:00 -
[271]
What is it with what feels like the anti-gallente patches? This comes across as a whine and for that I am sorry, but the webbing penalty is gonna hit every blaster boat hard. I'll also add that I flyb a lot of Gallente ships, so I am bias to begin with, but... 1) We've had the Raven recieve a dps boost so that it is catching up with the Megathron and has a much better effective range (note: catching up, not "better than"). Comparison's range wise suggest its dps should be comparable with lasers, not blasters. 2) We've had our resists lowered by 10% to help the amarr (the amarr boost which was a nerf to all other races, god forbid that ccp does it's pay raises using the same technique). 3) Now its tracking will be worse due to not being able to slow the target to a halt.
Whilst I see the need for some of these changes, changing webbers is gonna have a massive effect on the entire spectrum of combat. It may help deal with the "nano" issue, there are lots of others where it will cause a lot of suffering.
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Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:32:00 -
[272]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 25/07/2008 13:32:46
Originally by: XxAngelxX
Oh we will adapt. Instead of jumping into your ridiculous titan blobs and trying to havea fight, we'll just not bother and you can go back to mining. Happy?
Um...Angel...you do know I'm in a 1-man corp atm, right? (Well, aside from my same account noob placeholder alt.)
EDIT: Oh...and mining? Are you crazy?! -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:33:00 -
[273]
A while ago, I was flying around solo with a non-nanoed, non-plated zealot. Then I stumbled into a camp of about 10-12 hostiles in light ships. I raced with them over 3 systems before they caught me, and in the fight that followed, I killed two of them before I lost the ship. That was FUN, and ther wasn't any nanoing involved.
That's why the doomsayers crying about small-scale pvp being dead make me laugth... ------------------------------------------
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Jinshu
German Kings Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:34:00 -
[274]
The nerf is needed and welcome.
It is indeed a problem when a vagabond and a rapier in small gangs are superior to even greater mixed gangs because they:
Do not need tacklers aditional tacklers - because they are fast enough. Do not need a tank because they are fast enough. Do not need a damage dealer - because marvelous enough they have the damage.
So does this nerf retricts the 1 man solo hac ownage - yes. Is that good ? Yes. Fast groups will still be available but they will now have the need to employ shipclasses that are actually designed for tackling etc. They will hopefully not be able to outrun any weapons with a cruiser class hull and cruiser class damage fitted to them. So you need to mix up your nano gang a little and it cannot be hac only or hac recon - anymore and that is a good thing to accomplish. The blasterboat whine is also not very convincing. A blasterthron is not meant to be able to rip appart an interceptor - it is meant to rip apart it's counterpart, namely a big ship like a BC or another BS. And for that 60 % webber, tracking and mwd speed will still be enough.
As stated by the devs - the real problem with nano is, it can only be countered by nano - and that is no fun.
------------------------------------ The Game cannot be won, only played. ------------------------------------ |
Malena Panic
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:34:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Eran Laude Good that nano***s get what they deserve TBH
You will continue to die to better pilots after the patch, as they will continue to adapt and you will continue to expect CCP to make the game easier for you.
The rebalance seems a bit complicated to me. Why not just rebalance tracking and sig radius instead, so that the MWD sig bloom makes fast ships *easier* to hit? That would give nano ships a strategic speed advantage, allowing them to choose their engagements and their duration, but a tactical disadvantage, in ships which are easily hit and have no damage buffer.
A certain scaling down of top-end speeds is probably inevitable too, given the limitations of the engine, but it's really the dual advantages of strategic superiority and tactical vulnerability that makes nanoships frustrating to the F1-F8 crowd. ... |
Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:34:00 -
[276]
Originally by: XxAngelxX Please, if you want to make a dev blog that radically changes 1 fundamental PVP style, don't include sentences like:
"What's more is that speed, alas, can only be countered properly with yet more speed"
because you just group yourself in with the rest of the speed-whiners who are too idle, too uninterested in PVP and just want those nasty hostiles to go away, to learn to combat them with already available tactics.
Why must it always be the PVPers who have to adjust to game changes? Why can't those that perhaps don't like PVP so much because it interrupts the way they want to play the game, adapt to the PVPers?
nail. on. the. fukken. head.
obviously this blog was not written by someone who was motivated purely from reading eve-o whines and not at all from actually having a factual basis for any/all observations. CCP seems to clueless/inept to implement any sort of speed balance change currently. -----
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schurem
Anarchy Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:35:00 -
[277]
Thread too long, didnt read, but i LIKE what the nozzman is tryin to do here. However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning sounds.
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>>
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Alkie
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:37:00 -
[278]
Ok let's see if I can chronicle several patches and what they did to the minmatar race.
T2 ammo nerf: Tremor in anything but large is totally useless because the range was nerfed by half but still retained the 75% tracking penalty. Barrage is the only t2 ammo that is worth a damn currently.
Ship 15% HP buff: Completely removed the advantage of Artillery's alpha strike
Scripting: The tempest is the worst fleet Battleship now by far with a combination of the worst optimal, worst DPS, worst tracking, crappy scan res, and lock range. All of that for a big alpha that is woefully inadequate thanks to the ship HP boost. The muninn is by far the worst hac now, thanks to having an already narrow engagement window plus crappy locktime on small targets ( the ones it was designed to kill) because you have to script for range. Did I already mention how worthless tremor M is?
Bye bye damps: You removed the solo ability of the rapier, making it a glorified and VERY expensive tackler.
Amarr Gods: 80-100 KM Pulse Apocs?! Don't even get me started on the Zealot. You have to be shitting me. If you people are going to keep swinging the nerf bat, you god damn well better fix the stacking penalty for locus rigs.
Shield + armor resist nerf: Took a lot of the punch out of the Minmatar T2 shield resists.
Speed nerf + web nerf + proposed warp jammer changes + polycarb nerf: You CONTINUE to beat the vagabond down to total uselessness. Then you want to make the Rapier/Huginn unable to pin down interceptors. On top of all that, you are basically giving the bonuses of a rapier to the Arazu so it can kill your MWD and tackle you at obscene ranges.
The only good ship I have left is the tanked Sleipnir( no more nano fit). Why don't you remove it's falloff bonus, nerf it's resists(more), and remove a turret while you are at it.
Thank you for removing the last remnants of the soloing part of pvp in eve as well as turning the entire game into even more of a blobfest.
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Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:37:00 -
[279]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 25/07/2008 13:40:02
Originally by: Shadowsword A while ago, I was flying around solo with a non-nanoed, non-plated zealot. Then I stumbled into a camp of about 10-12 hostiles in light ships. I raced with them over 3 systems before they caught me, and in the fight that followed, I killed two of them before I lost the ship. That was FUN, and ther wasn't any nanoing involved.
That's why the doomsayers crying about small-scale pvp being dead make me laugth...
This.
I was flying around lowsec solo in my platephoon of fail a couple days ago and engaged a hostile domi and astarte on a gate, which quickly turned into two domis, a blasterthron, an astarte, and a phobos. Despite this, I got the astarte to 50% structure before he got out of range (I had multiple webs on me and couldn't pursue) and took one of the domis very deep into armor before I died. If I'd gone for the domi outright I probably would've killed him, then might've even been able to take one or two more ships with me as well.
It was a FIGHT instead of a gank despite the odds against me, and that's exactly the type of thing which is the reason I play. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
manasi
Caldari Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:38:00 -
[280]
I agree with this...no more ..."MORE speed capt'n!" I feel badly for those that thought this would last forever and spent ungodly sums of money to get the HAC to 7Km/s.
-TheMule
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:38:00 -
[281]
I hear that nanoviolins will remain unchanged.
Anyway, I'll be looking very closely at the new mechanics, to find interesting new tactics. It's a shame that certain players will be unable to do similarly, but EVE has always been a harsh, uncompromising game.
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Gnome Chomsky
26th of July Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:38:00 -
[282]
Originally by: XxAngelxX I'm weeping irl here
Much as I dislike the look of these proposed changes, I actually LOVE the salty nano-tears that the new TRI (Pandemic Faildon) and old TRI (TRI) are shedding.
NOMNOM
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Danyael Tyren
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:38:00 -
[283]
Oh man, Minmatar are so thoroughly hosed by this it's not even funny. Vagabonds are now just a really expensive means of acquiring T2 salvage.
Meanwhile, the Arazu is God amongst lesser ships. Yes, I MWD around you, you can't activate your MWD, and you're still too slow if you have a AB fitted. ------ NAPs (nap means we wonĘt kill you today, maybe, but thatĘs all that means unless you help and contribute to coalition or being useful to us there is no obligation for us to keep that +standing |
Dracorimus
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:39:00 -
[284]
Problem solved, well mostly.
Quite funny to see the nano-w****s crying now ships are going to be once again somewhat balanced.
Least interceptors will be able to do as their description suggests, intercept and tackle something biiger than them now.
I also think cloaks on capital ships, or anything over cruiser size, especially titans is rather silly, those things are meant to be friggen monstrous in size and affect the space/tides etc around them.
To be able to simply *cloak* such a massive object, I find ridiculous even in this fictitious setting of new eden. - Die faster damnit! |
Amandi Casimi
Amarr Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:39:00 -
[285]
rebalancing the speed of the ships is a good idea... and changes to the Polycarb will be welcome...
But messing with the webs and scrams are going to screw stuff up... alot. Small changes should be made, gradually over time, instead of trying to cut it all with one go.
Make your changes to ships speeds, and the polycarbs... see how that plays out, THEN look at changing webs and scrams after it has been implemented.
Remember... the bigger the changes, the more chance you have at breaking a system that really isn't to terribly broken. Nanofits can be countered the way they are right now. Change to much stuff, and well... you completely change the game. -------------------------
Let neutrals be neutrals.
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Chienka
Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:39:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Chienka on 25/07/2008 13:44:40 All I can say is that CCP had better watch their step in this. We've seen how easy it is for small changes to shift the popularity of ship classes...
Such a large change like this will surely rearrange the entire combat spectrum below capitals. No doubt nerfing ships, ship classes and even races (minmatar lol) into oblivion. The problem is, the amount of testing and rebalancing for such a change is so immense its probably not worth the effort in the first place.
But in all seriousness, as shown in the past, we can't expect CCP to keep testing for balance. Its taken the game years to get to the somewhat balanced state that its in.
To start all over again... uhh... no.
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Korinn
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:40:00 -
[287]
Originally by: CCP Nozh The battles will hopefully once again teem with ships of all sizes and makes, giving added weight to strategy and tactics (our very favourites)
Where blobbing 2+:1 against a gang is strategy and tactics, rite?
The way people currently use speed as an advantage came about because others were using ******ed numbers to theirs.
I never understood the issue with people going fast; it still requires decent clones, good skills and polycarbs (80m+ per ship) to get to any speed usable in a proper nano gang; and if you want to go your so called "ludicrous speed" - well, you're spending 2-3b on a snake set + other implants and probably another billion fitting your ship. When someone else spends that much money on a counter to it, then I'd expect to be caught, right?
Maybe I'd be a little less annoyed with this change if you'd also sort something out with gang mods while you're nerfing all of this - make them work in warp
Also sig radius reduction is possibly the worst bonus ever, why would you even contemplate changing X-Instinct to that - I've got skirmish spec 5 + mindlink + maxed skills and I've never ever used the sig reduction mod because, quite frankly, it's useless.
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Sid Zero
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:40:00 -
[288]
Suggestion for webifiers: in stead of giving it a 50% effectiveness everywhere within it's range, make it more effective at close range and less effective at longer ranges, for instance, make the effectiveness vary linearly from 90% to 10% from 0 to 20km. This will give a 50% effectiveness at 10km, and good webbifying at blasterboat ranges.
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Stalina
Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:40:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Jinshu The nerf is needed and welcome.
It is indeed a problem when a vagabond and a rapier in small gangs are superior to even greater mixed gangs because they:
Do not need tacklers aditional tacklers - because they are fast enough. Do not need a tank because they are fast enough. Do not need a damage dealer - because marvelous enough they have the damage.
Quoting the clueless.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:42:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Gypsio III nanoviolins
I see what you did there. -
DesuSigs |
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Nadar
Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:42:00 -
[291]
Edited by: Nadar on 25/07/2008 13:43:05 Which nutcase suggested nerfing Webs? Last time I checked, the "fooling-others-with-bad-jokes"-day was the 1st of April on Iceland as well, not the 25th of July
I'm really happy I've trained skills for other races as well, else I'd be honking around in seriously shite recons after this patch
---
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Adam C
0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:42:00 -
[292]
Yay sniper fleets have meaning again. Havant flown my sniper tempest in months.
that's the only pro i can find :(
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Slade Hoo
Amarr xPlaguex
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:42:00 -
[293]
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 25/07/2008 13:44:25 Its indeed a Minmatar boost. no nerf. try to adapt. minmatar will be fine...very fine.
There is no web = dead anymore...tiny shield/armor of minmatar didn't tank so well when webbed. You now can enter web range as a tactical option and benefit from tracking and signature...these are all new possibilities and advantages for minmatar.
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Raquel Trotter
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:43:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Alkie Ok let's see if I can chronicle several patches and what they did to the minmatar race.
T2 ammo nerf: Tremor in anything but large is totally useless because the range was nerfed by half but still retained the 75% tracking penalty. Barrage is the only t2 ammo that is worth a damn currently.
Ship 15% HP buff: Completely removed the advantage of Artillery's alpha strike
Scripting: The tempest is the worst fleet Battleship now by far with a combination of the worst optimal, worst DPS, worst tracking, crappy scan res, and lock range. All of that for a big alpha that is woefully inadequate thanks to the ship HP boost. The muninn is by far the worst hac now, thanks to having an already narrow engagement window plus crappy locktime on small targets ( the ones it was designed to kill) because you have to script for range. Did I already mention how worthless tremor M is?
Bye bye damps: You removed the solo ability of the rapier, making it a glorified and VERY expensive tackler.
Amarr Gods: 80-100 KM Pulse Apocs?! Don't even get me started on the Zealot. You have to be shitting me. If you people are going to keep swinging the nerf bat, you god damn well better fix the stacking penalty for locus rigs.
Shield + armor resist nerf: Took a lot of the punch out of the Minmatar T2 shield resists.
Speed nerf + web nerf + proposed warp jammer changes + polycarb nerf: You CONTINUE to beat the vagabond down to total uselessness. Then you want to make the Rapier/Huginn unable to pin down interceptors. On top of all that, you are basically giving the bonuses of a rapier to the Arazu so it can kill your MWD and tackle you at obscene ranges.
The only good ship I have left is the tanked Sleipnir( no more nano fit). Why don't you remove it's falloff bonus, nerf it's resists(more), and remove a turret while you are at it.
Thank you for removing the last remnants of the soloing part of pvp in eve as well as turning the entire game into even more of a blobfest.
Nail on head... Also your forget that minnie have the hardest training requirements for most of their ships due to split weapon systems and dual tanks.
Seems like ccp want this game to become stationhugging-drake-blobs-online
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:43:00 -
[295]
korinn, stop being reasonable and suggesting that only the snakes were overpowered. Clearly everything associated with speed needs to be nerfed quite handily. Next thing you're gonna tell me is that damps were overpowered but a broadspectrum nerf on anything that affected two stats was overboard. Quit being silly. -----
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fiber0pti
Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:43:00 -
[296]
lol at the polycarbon legion tears they taste so sweet
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Sid Zero
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:44:00 -
[297]
Originally by: manasi I feel badly for those that thought this would last forever and spent ungodly sums of money to get the HAC to 7Km/s.
-TheMule
[WTS] Gistum B-type 10MN MWD, 10isk
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Kire Nosslrak
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:45:00 -
[298]
sigh, just when u thought things couldnt get worse the nerf bat comes along. What about fleet lagg? Seems to me as u are forsing ppl to bring more and more numbers and by doing that just ADDING to the lagg.. |
pathfinder two
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:45:00 -
[299]
On the whole, good!
A few of the changes were definitely neccessary (stacking penalties applying sooner, smaller bonuses), but a few changes still seem to be ill thought out (webbers and warp scramblers). I'm glad we will get a chance to test it before it goes live.
And by my calculation I can still get my HAC over 4km and my ceptor way higher, the speeds just aren't 'ludicrous' any more
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manasi
Caldari Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:45:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Sid Zero
Originally by: manasi I feel badly for those that thought this would last forever and spent ungodly sums of money to get the HAC to 7Km/s.
-TheMule
[WTS] Gistum B-type 10MN MWD, 10isk
Sorry Sid :( ( lol I ahve 1 too but was too afraid to lose it to fit it....sigh
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