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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |

Medore
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:38:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Sid Zero I have a suggestion for keeping Guerilla warfare tactics viable, even making it more viable, with the proposed nano nerf.
If speed is nerfed, gatecamping should be nerfed too. 1) double lock time at gates 2) remote sensor boosters are disabled at gates 3) warp core stabilisers get a revamp: instead of making a ship completely immune to scrambling, they introduce a delay before scrambling kicks in. And throw away the ridiculous drawbacks currently associated with them - gimping your setup by dedicating 1 or 2 slots to these modules is already enough.
you are aware that none of this will help whilst in a bubble in 0.0 right? a ceptor will still lock a BS down quite quickly.
that said i like these changes. its about time nano's wernt the only viable things to fly in small gang pvp
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TOD hamm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:39:00 -
[92]
we have to rat 4-6 hours for a nano hac and CCP still want to nerf it???
I mean missile are working well in pvp, and CCP dont know there are sentry drones in market??? or just CCP's boss starting to play Caldari??
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Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:40:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Stab Wounds
Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni While I won't scream at the top of my lungs that all these changes are bad, it would be nice if Nozh could explain how they think these changes will achieve all the speed goals. Particularly I'd like to see how you think you'll achieve the last;
Originally by: "Nozh" Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
In the current game state, this is mainly achieved with nano setups, which enable you to travel fast, move into enemy territory, hit targets of opportunity, and when the inevitable blob arrives, you run like hell. This is pretty much the only way small corps and gangs have to hurt larger enemies, and it's more or less the only viable solo tactic. Gatecamping also works to a certain point, but you're hardly mobile, so it's not exactly Guerilla Warfare.
There are currently quite a few effective counters to speed tanking ships, chiefly Minmatar Recons and neutralizing ships. The problem is that the people don't want to sacrifice an alt or a corpmate in a recon with webs, or fitting that heavy neut that will save their battleships, because it makes them less effective at ratting or whatever they do. Well, welcome to our world. I'd love to have more DPS on my Vagabond, but it's a trade-off. I have virtually no tank but my speed, and if you use tactics that have been debated to death, you can at least make me run.
As to risk vs. reward; I run around in a ship worth 3-400 mill, with a billion worth of implants in my head, I'm willing to take the risk, while the "zoot zoot, omg speed tanking is lame"-crowd is unwilling to sacrifice a highslot that can save their ass.
Please CCP; at least explain how you want to achieve viable guerilla warfare with these changes, because as I see it, you're about to kill the last small gang warfare tactic there is.
boohoo my overpowered nano ship has been nerfed.
your stuff give it.
Shut up, put down a decent point.
---
CCP, for the love of god, please don't nerf my blaster boats - Yeah, nerf nanos, but surely there should be a bit of a sliding scale. Frankly the change to Webs will result in people fitting double webs more often when they can. 50-60% is absolutely useless, and all of a sudden you are going to have Megathrons, Deimos', and the like having to spend MWD power to get in range of a AB'ing ship.
Assuming you do 50%, for easy numbers.
Zealot w/ AB (My personal choice of ship most the time) It'll top 600m/s. You put a 50% web on, and I'm still going 300m/s. Any half decent pilot knows that a Megathron, hell I'd be willing to bet a Deimos, cannot track 300m/s transversal at close range. Okay, then it comes down to managing the ship better. Right, and with double click directional controls on the ship, how're we supposed to do this?
I think if you gave us joystick control, yeah, we'd be able to alter much faster. But we're already doing ALOT with the mouse.
Frankly this will put out solo BS roaming. Yeah, its not a single player game and yeah, its not supposed to be a single pwnmobile - But it is supposed to work in some cases. But in this instance, a Megathron doing 900m/s trying to catch a HAC or BC that can do a good 150 under webbing, or in the Zealots case, 300m/s under webbing, will just leave the Blaster boats struggling for cap - as if they dont already.
I love the fact you're taking speed down, its great news, alot may hate it, alot may love it, and you cant please everyone... but I think the webs changing will effectively break the gallente role of fighting.
Following the loss of speed, you know what the solution will be on part of the players? Long range. If you cant get close and hold them, why bother trying? Just sit 50km off and put round after round of ammo into them.
Look at people uncloaking from a gate? 50%? Even a Megathron will get back to the gate.
Warp to Zero + 50% web + Mwd = Get away scot free - Solution? More blobs.
Let me know if I'm wrong, please.
Izo Azlion.
---
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MirrorGod
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:40:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Medore
Originally by: Sid Zero I have a suggestion for keeping Guerilla warfare tactics viable, even making it more viable, with the proposed nano nerf.
If speed is nerfed, gatecamping should be nerfed too. 1) double lock time at gates 2) remote sensor boosters are disabled at gates 3) warp core stabilisers get a revamp: instead of making a ship completely immune to scrambling, they introduce a delay before scrambling kicks in. And throw away the ridiculous drawbacks currently associated with them - gimping your setup by dedicating 1 or 2 slots to these modules is already enough.
you are aware that none of this will help whilst in a bubble in 0.0 right? a ceptor will still lock a BS down quite quickly.
that said i like these changes. its about time nano's wernt the only viable things to fly in small gang pvp
I enjoy tanking and old-school playstyles as much as the next guy, but looks to me like we'll have less small gang pvp and more blobs out of this.
Recruitment: [ANTI]
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Emperor Aeoth
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:40:00 -
[95]
great idea you want to build a gate camp online?
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Callistus
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:40:00 -
[96]
\o/ a role for the Arazu again  ------------
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Odre Echee
Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:41:00 -
[97]
I don't care if my Crow can now effectively be arse-****d by a lucky Merlin with scram and web. I don't care if my Rokh is going to die when I get caught in a bubble because of normalized speed or whatnot.
They are limits I can accept.
Proposed scram and web changes, not so much.
I'm quitting. Drop me an Evemail if anybody wants my stuffs.
---------------------
Lag in Motsu or other hubs? Can't bear it and want to change? Remember : YOU are part of the problem! |

Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:43:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Blog Thus, we urge you to log onto Singularity (our test server) this Monday, July 28TH to give them a spin and spare us no feedback or thoughts on these issues. We're allocating a long time (a month or more) to oversee the changes because we are open to further tweaks, based on your suggestions.
Awesome, my sub will already have expired when the changes go through \o/. -
DesuSigs |

Tomic
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:45:00 -
[99]
Certain ships (most frigs for example) are useless not because the game is unbalanced, but because they have NO role (see af's) or at least are so bad at their role that other ships are preferrable (all other frigs). Nerfing speed will not change this, frigates will still be completely pointless. Instead of a speed nerf, CCP should be looking into revising their tracking/sig radius model. People don't fly frigs because when you get shot at by a blob (and lets face it, wherever you go now there is a blob) you die very fast due to some people getting lucky wrecking shots. If you fly a cruiser (mainly speed hac) with shield extenders you have a chance to get out if you start taking damage.
Also, why should drones/missiles hit EVERY ship, when guns cannot. Tracking is designed so that guns CANNOT hit smaller faster ships, this should be the same with drones (which use guns) and missiles.
I believe the first goal in the blog is wrong, the second is already the case (interceptors can already go a lot faster than any other ship in the game), the third goal, why not? Isn't that what variety is for? the fourth goal I agree with, afterburners are pointless atm the last goal, well this won't be achieved with these changes.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:45:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 25/07/2008 11:45:57
Originally by: Callistus \o/ a role for the Arazu again 
Sure.
Eve population, do like this guy. Instead of whining, try thinking how to exploit those changes.
Time to go buy a few dozen Lachesis while they're still cheap.
Quote:
we have to rat 4-6 hours for a nano hac and CCP still want to nerf it???
Don't worry, with the nerf polycarbs are getting, you won't pay them 60 millions/unit anymore. ------------------------------------------
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Pushtan
Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:45:00 -
[101]
Scram/Disruptors shut off mwd's 
One word. Arazu.    
Fuggen EPIC
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:45:00 -
[102]
Hurray, finally it's being balanced.
But I'm not happy to see how it's being done. Fine, the speed is being curved off. The points being made, are that the nano-problem is because of the blobs out there.
So surely it's bad to nerf nano's, without giving more reasons to actually fly small gangs? People blob now, because they can and there is no reason to fly in smaller gangs. I think that is bad.
Sure, shoot the messenger. But at least do see the message that is being brought forward.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:45:00 -
[103]
Edited by: MirrorGod on 25/07/2008 11:45:39 Dear CCP,
Your idea is crap <3 MirrorGod
*starts training gallente cruiser 5
Recruitment: [ANTI]
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Billy Merc
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:45:00 -
[104]
So....what does ccp plan to do with vagabonds then ??
Seeing as tho all they have going for them is speed (even as per your ship description "fastest cruiser in existance")
not that i fly mine much these days...just curious
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:45:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni While I won't scream at the top of my lungs that all these changes are bad, it would be nice if Nozh could explain how they think these changes will achieve all the speed goals. Particularly I'd like to see how you think you'll achieve the last;
Originally by: "Nozh" Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
In the current game state, this is mainly achieved with nano setups, which enable you to travel fast, move into enemy territory, hit targets of opportunity, and when the inevitable blob arrives, you run like hell. This is pretty much the only way small corps and gangs have to hurt larger enemies, and it's more or less the only viable solo tactic. Gatecamping also works to a certain point, but you're hardly mobile, so it's not exactly Guerilla Warfare.
There are currently quite a few effective counters to speed tanking ships, chiefly Minmatar Recons and neutralizing ships. The problem is that the people don't want to sacrifice an alt or a corpmate in a recon with webs, or fitting that heavy neut that will save their battleships, because it makes them less effective at ratting or whatever they do. Well, welcome to our world. I'd love to have more DPS on my Vagabond, but it's a trade-off. I have virtually no tank but my speed, and if you use tactics that have been debated to death, you can at least make me run.
As to risk vs. reward; I run around in a ship worth 3-400 mill, with a billion worth of implants in my head, I'm willing to take the risk, while the "zoot zoot, omg speed tanking is lame"-crowd is unwilling to sacrifice a highslot that can save their ass.
Please CCP; at least explain how you want to achieve viable guerilla warfare with these changes, because as I see it, you're about to kill the last small gang warfare tactic there is.
Quoting this for prosperity. I agree wholeheartedly.
Black Hand.
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Broska
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:46:00 -
[106]
I can't actualy decide if CCP are having a laugh and trolling their own forum or not.
If they arn't. Hello Blobwars and Carebears online. The whiners have won again.
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Salacir Khan
Amarr Precision Engineering
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:46:00 -
[107]
Very nice!
The Nano-Age was fun. Im going to miss it, but im also looking forward to the new way of warfare.
If CCP does its job as good as usuall it will turn out awesome. I welcome the Change (...and im a nano *****)
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Lt Angus
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:46:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Pushtan Scram/Disruptors shut off mwd's 
One word. Arazu.    
Fuggen EPIC
only scrams do, and they might not stop warping after their changes either
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |

Sweet Rosella
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:46:00 -
[109]
ROFL, this is a buff for caldri, omg missil spam = super lag, I shall send my raven pilot into rens with FoF missils and well there be no rens left
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Captain Campion
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:46:00 -
[110]
pants, spaffed.
excellent proposal.
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Deros
Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:46:00 -
[111]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Hurray, finally it's being balanced.
But I'm not happy to see how it's being done. Fine, the speed is being curved off. The points being made, are that the nano-problem is because of the blobs out there.
So surely it's bad to nerf nano's, without giving more reasons to actually fly small gangs? People blob now, because they can and there is no reason to fly in smaller gangs. I think that is bad.
Sure, shoot the messenger. But at least do see the message that is being brought forward.
Agreed
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:46:00 -
[112]
Quote: the high-grade snake set 24.7%; the low-grade snake set 16%
Slave sets are probably going to have a nerf too?
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Lt Angus
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:48:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Lt Angus on 25/07/2008 11:48:59
Originally by: Billy Merc So....what does ccp plan to do with vagabonds then ??
Seeing as tho all they have going for them is speed (even as per your ship description "fastest cruiser in existance")
not that i fly mine much these days...just curious
vagabond will still be fast and works outside web range so only change will be it fears arazu's and is easier to track/hit with missiles, whether its buffer can keep up with the increased dmg it will take is to be seen, not that it runs its mwd 24/7 anyway
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |

Lily Cole
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:49:00 -
[114]
This is golden...
It reminds me of the bastions of "Adapt or Die!" getting all teary eyed when it's their turn in the nerf barrel.
murder one crying his crap off at the EANM2 nerf... no adapt or die for him that day, no sir....
It's funny how it's "Adapt or die" until CCP touch your favourite toy. |

Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:49:00 -
[115]
An AB isn't viable for an interceptor as you're not going fast enough, I mean yes the polycarbons even though I like them I'll accept they're over-powered but an intie going 2000m will be hit by cruiser guns if it is orbiting at 10km as it is going around 0.06451612 rs^-1 which Focused Pulse lasers have a base tracking of 0.09 rs^-1 that and a paper thin tank intie goes pop. Cruise missiles can hit an intie at that speed mean stealth bombers will probably be able to kill it and ravens will as well assuming they're using cruises or have decent skills in gunnery, hybrid and laser ships will just have to rely on drones, which by the way, light T2 hobgoblins or T2 Valkyries will own an intie. And before anyone mentions MWD the idea to put a scram point on an intie will die which supports blob tactics if MWD's are used as this will be a less brain less skill intesive way to deal with it. Finally, from what I've read, CPP Nozh is one of the Nano whiners as this while being somewhat thought out not enough has been placed into this and rather than being balance it's more of a succumb to the nano-whiners hotfix.
P.S. Does this mean it's time to sell my interceptor? -------- Ohh and btw, China. |

Emperor Aeoth
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:50:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Lt Angus Edited by: Lt Angus on 25/07/2008 11:48:59
Originally by: Billy Merc So....what does ccp plan to do with vagabonds then ??
Seeing as tho all they have going for them is speed (even as per your ship description "fastest cruiser in existance")
not that i fly mine much these days...just curious
vagabond will still be fast and works outside web range so only change will be it fears arazu's and is easier to track/hit with missiles, whether its buffer can keep up with the increased dmg it will take is to be seen, not that it runs its mwd 24/7 anyway
thers is restart deley for mwd so vaga is been totally nerfffff!!
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Dsnakes
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:50:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Odre Echee ...I'm quitting. Drop me an Evemail if anybody wants my stuffs.
i'm at work i can't log in, fell free to contract me your stuff <3
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Broegitte Bardot
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:50:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Broegitte Bardot on 25/07/2008 11:54:41
Quote: The new values result in a smooth slope across the classes,
it's all a matter of sorting...
- put the mini-recon up front before faction and T1 and put recon-cruiser behind faction and T1 - assault frigs below T1 frigs and assault-criuser before T1 cruisers
and even that didn't help the destroyer -.-
yes... very clever selling technique   
more on monday one thing for now: i don't see why agility was included... i-stabs keep their evil signature modification? alt of Roemy Schneider (probably lacking game time again) |

Delos Korelian
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:50:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Dibsi Dei
Quote: the high-grade snake set 24.7%; the low-grade snake set 16%
Slave sets are probably going to have a nerf too?
Bubuy 3 Billion isk snake sets.... 
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Divus
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:51:00 -
[120]
its pro blob and thats why its shit -------------------------------------------------
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