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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Turkantho
Asgard Schiffswerften Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:10:00 -
[871]
Edited by: Turkantho on 25/07/2008 17:15:26 Edited by: Turkantho on 25/07/2008 17:13:46
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
With a few rigs, T2 overdrives and microwarpdrive and some implants, I can easily break 4km/sec with a vagabond. Then you can add gang bonuses, boosters, etc.
what boosters i may ask ?
the x-instinct that are going the be nerfed as well and give you signature reduction instead of speed boost soon ???
ok at first i thought ok speed nerf shit, then i read some more ok, couldn't be that bad at the first read suggested, then i saw your "fitting" and thought oh **** they lost it nerfing speeds of 10k+ is ok and i'm all for it but this nerf will go to far
edit: spelling ________
Sometimes paranoiaÆs just having all the facts.
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:11:00 -
[872]
Unless scrambles are boosted to have more than a "7.5km t2 to 15km officer", I see a lack of point.
All this will do is render webs completely useless (effectively making anything but a nano ship pointless to fly), and swap Huggins for Arazus for anti nano work.
Please tell me webs will at least double in range to compensate, otherwise I'll need 3 midslots to do what 2 used to do on any ship I fly,
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Saori Rei
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:12:00 -
[873]
Arazu super buff ftw... though I feel this could be a blasterboat nerf... sort off.... hmmm. Also Hictors have just turned even MORE lethal.
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deadok
Amarr RUS Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:12:00 -
[874]
Edited by: deadok on 25/07/2008 17:14:21
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Asero [Ares, Speed]
hitting 5k
wieeee, now i can fit my harby with beams, put a couple of tc,te,sb, warpin @ 150km, and pwn almost any inty, that would try to get and scramble me. meh, i can make it even in my pulse apoc.
notice: you might see a sarcasm in my post
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Cur
Dawn of a new Empire Pure.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:12:00 -
[875]
Ahahaha!! Thanks for making my day nano****** and please continue your outpour of emotion.
Don't give an inch Nozh. A greater variety of ships and setups will hopefully soon return to the battlefield. |
Wesley Baird
BURN EDEN Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:12:00 -
[876]
Look at who is pro and who is anti...everyone who likes the nerf is from some fail carebear alliance/corp who basically only pvp's when their precious mining op is interrupted...so of course they like any change which means all you need is numbers to win.
This change is anti-small gang clearly...you can easily implement some simple stacking penalties and deal with the speed issue...but no, that's not enough...you need to make it so numbers win plain and simple. You don't need skils, you don't need tactics, just pure numbers...
This nerf is pure pro blob...and appeals to carebear tears plain and simple...blob-online, because caps online wasn't bad enough...
X up for a mining up guys!
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Entelechia
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:13:00 -
[877]
Edited by: Entelechia on 25/07/2008 17:13:15 Yes, I also found it pretty funny that they mention boosters as a speed boost...after saying in the blog that speed boosters are getting changed.
Let alone playing the game, did you read the blog your fellow dev wrote?
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Aenis Veros
Caldari Alphaflight
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:13:00 -
[878]
How about keeping everything as-is and just changing the warp-scrambler into an anti-MWD module, eg with scripts:
Warp Scrambler, changes from a continual-effect module to a "stop"-module (think manual mode with a long reactivation timer): a) -50% range (5km with t2), Disables MWD b) +50% range,(15km with t2), Reduces target MWD-speed by 90% instantly c) Unscripted, -80% range (2km with t2), Disables MWD & Reduces target MWD-speed by 50% instantly.
It no longer stops any ships from warping away, it's 100% designed to stop MICROWARPDRIVES. Make it have a 20 second delay before it can be used again.
The scrambler in this case isn't a continual point, but a stop-module. You use it on one target, it can still warp away, but it's designed to work against nano-ships. It's very short-range so you either have to get up close and personal, or be in an Arazu.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:13:00 -
[879]
Originally by: Hul'ka
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Matrixcvd
No, absolutely not and I am afraid we have detected humans that can't breath but are still walking. Oxygen helps your thinking chief. Do you even use your brain? MWDs stopping to scramblers. All MWDs getting the same boost, the list goes on and on.
For all of you nutjobs in this game and especially at CCP, I have seen 1, thats it 1 vaga go over 9k/s. 3 Intys around 24k/s. THATS IT. ALl of this nonsense you keep bringin up is just total garabage and has been brought on by FW. WHen you listen to complete PVP failures, will see how this game lasts
Yes, I make sure to always keep my oxygen tank firmly strapped and active.
The speeds that are being nerfed are exactly those huge speeds. Ship travelling in the 2-5km/s or so range won't feel this too badly.
Let me help you with that m8.. He is talking about how he didnÆt see much of that uber ultra speed boats around. In fact, only 1 (one) uber zoom zoom vaga and 3 (three) inties go by that uber speeds. In my entire EVE life I saw 2 Macharials doing 9,5 (before any speed nerf), 2 ***as doing aprox 10 and few inties going 13km/s. And only impression they make on me was û ôwow, you invested so much money in thatö.
Anyone, and I mean anyone who knows at least something about speed in fights knows that there is no way you can kill someone flying that fast. And you also know how many things you should be afraid off.
ItÆs so fracking obvious, especially after statements like ôI newer used MWD and whole concept of MWD is wrongö from a guy who is pro nerf, that you are listening wrong people, caldari carebears, pvp loosersà
W8, this was brought by FW? So, Caldari using new regions to Gallente is out of the storyline you intended to EVE? Minmatars should be slaves again?
U SUX
Its not the uber speeds they're concerned about, its the 3.5-5km regular speeds that HACs and Recons were easily obtaining with polly's. Those speeds broke game balance because you either had 5-10 huginn's in your gang or you nano'd yourself.
How is anyone NOT seeing this is broken? Every roaming gang was comprised of nano's. You would be hard pressed to find a shield booster or armor repairer anywhere in a small gang lately, except as loot int he cargohold.
Get a life nano'ers, you're time as voyers to combat is gone. Pick up a rep like the rest of us. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:14:00 -
[880]
I feel soo soo bad for CCP right now. I wonder how many peeps emoquit for this, can we get a statistic?
My 2 cents, There definitly needed to be changes to combat speed, This doesnt seem to be the right direction however. I mean wouldn't it have been far easier to implement scripts for webbers?
Normalizing the base speeds makes sense.
Warp Scramblers stop MWD's? then you best make warp disrupter bubbles do the same!
Thank you for atleast making my arazu somewhat useful, but you screwed over my blaster ships, and for that im most disappointed, they were already pretty useless, now, i dont know.
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Alpha Dash
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:14:00 -
[881]
im go WOW thx CCP
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Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:14:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Cur A greater variety of ships ...
This is incorrect. The mid-range hacs that lack tank and now lack speed, such as the deimos, ishtar and zealot will be left without roles in small gang warfare. You'll be seeing a much narrower variation in shiptypes now, potentially reduced to just the vagabond.
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SOSAKLINGO
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:14:00 -
[883]
the speed nerf will get eve-online very nerfed. a large amount of people will get nurfed a lot of training time you can troy it in the toilet you like that eve-online ?
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Wesley Baird
BURN EDEN Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:14:00 -
[884]
Originally by: Cur Ahahaha!! Thanks for making my day nano****** and please continue your outpour of emotion.
Don't give an inch Nozh. A greater variety of ships and setups will hopefully soon return to the battlefield.
Perfect example...carebear alliance + carebear opinion
Anyone surprised?!
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Entelechia
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:15:00 -
[885]
Edited by: Entelechia on 25/07/2008 17:15:16
Originally by: Aenis Veros How about keeping everything as-is and just changing the warp-scrambler into an anti-MWD module, eg with scripts:
Warp Scrambler, changes from a continual-effect module to a "stop"-module (think manual mode with a long reactivation timer): a) -50% range (5km with t2), Disables MWD b) +50% range,(15km with t2), Reduces target MWD-speed by 90% instantly c) Unscripted, -80% range (2km with t2), Disables MWD & Reduces target MWD-speed by 50% instantly.
It no longer stops any ships from warping away, it's 100% designed to stop MICROWARPDRIVES. Make it have a 20 second delay before it can be used again.
The scrambler in this case isn't a continual point, but a stop-module. You use it on one target, it can still warp away, but it's designed to work against nano-ships. It's very short-range so you either have to get up close and personal, or be in an Arazu.
We have something like this already. We call them stasis webifiers. In fact, we even have ships that are really good at catching nanoships and stopping them cold. They are called the Rapier and the Huginn.
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Junkie Beverage
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:15:00 -
[886]
man this thread is awesome
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Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:15:00 -
[887]
Originally by: facialimpediment
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
With a few rigs, T2 overdrives and microwarpdrive and some implants, I can easily break 4km/sec with a vagabond. Then you can add gang bonuses, boosters, etc.
You do realize that very few HAC pilots actually use speed implants, right?
Right?
RIGHT?
It's hard for a carebear and SISI tester to undrestand the delicate wallet balance after your ship blows up leaving you with full set snakes in the middle of a bubble. --------- I want to phew phew
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:15:00 -
[888]
Originally by: Cailais Blasterboats dont seem to have too many worries either - if fewer players fit MWDs then blaster boats will have an easier time getting in range - after all they couldnt hit fast targets anyway beyond web range. Now if say a deimos mwds and scrams another ship (and is scrammed back) they'll both effectively stop: good news for close range damage dealers.
Anyone who fits an AB will be able to simply fly away from a scrammed blasterboat, assuming they even have to fly away given tracking issues. The combination of MWD scrambler and reduced web means that the blasterboat loses the ability to pin them down and the ability to chase. Against MWD fitted opponents, the problem is not as drastic, but since you will lose your MWD and be webbed as you approach, you will have to tank for a bit longer before you can return fire.
This rebalance is supposed to avoid situations where the enemy can simply disengage at will, yet this is exactly the situation it will create for blasterboats. -
DesuSigs |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:16:00 -
[889]
Originally by: Wesley Baird Perfect example...carebear alliance + carebear opinion
Anyone surprised?!
Because you of course are entirely unbiased, sensible, and have the entire game's balance at the back of your mind, not just your personal way to win?
Please, quit with the name-calling, you're not in CAOD. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
BuIIseye
Amarr Pax Amarria Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:17:00 -
[890]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Scripting webbers/warp disruptors might be cool.
Sure, that would be fun, in a perfect lag free EVE. Ever tried to change scripts in epic lag? Have you even played the game in fleet battles recently? Or do you consider them rare and spontaneous, because thats the only way 0.0 space changes hands these days, in big fleet battles with epic lag, in conflicts that got EVE-Online mentioned on prestigious websites and magazine's across the world this year.
Instead of nerfing ships with Snake sets that 0.1% of the PVPers use, how about improving the server performance or find ways to discourage blobing that affects all of 0.0 ?
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Stahlfalke
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:17:00 -
[891]
Its simple: This will ruin the game.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:17:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: Cur A greater variety of ships ...
This is incorrect. The mid-range hacs that lack tank and now lack speed, such as the deimos, ishtar and zealot will be left without roles in small gang warfare. You'll be seeing a much narrower variation in shiptypes now, potentially reduced to just the vagabond.
?
Still thinking like a nano-pilot. Maybe people start tanking--gasp--or brining BCs/BS's to small gangs--gasp--or use frigates for speed--gasp! ----------------- Friends Forever |
lebrata
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:17:00 -
[893]
Originally by: HotSeat
CCP.... HONESTLY EXPLAIN WHAT YOU WANT PVP COMBAT IN EVE TO BE !!!
If you could just explain what it is you want, the people that play the game can tell you if the changes you suggest will work.
No slam, just tell us what you're after?
You must know large groups don't work at this point? Are you looking for BS's too have more of a chance against HAC's? Do you want PVP to be 100% dependant on numbers, so once scouts report, everyone can just go back home and reduce your server load, as the fight will be dediced before it starts? Do you want your players that spent years on HAC skill's to train something else or go play WOW?
Honestly just state what your "Vision" is here?
Cause I can tell you, we don't "get it"
THIS PRETTY MUCH COVERS IT TBH.
We are totally interested in increasing our player base and so increasing our profit, we know well that most older player will proly stay no matter what we nerf because of the time and money they have invested in the game.
But because newer players tend to get disillusioned because of the abilities of those who have spent years and lots of money to improve their game play we are nerfing anything that makes being a long term eve player worthwhile and by doing this making low sp and basic ship fits and types 100% effective.
To be succinct "screw you and the rest of the long term eve players" we make more money pandering to noobs cos most of you long termers aint gonna quit no matter what we do.
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August Guns
Minmatar Infinite ISK
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:18:00 -
[894]
First off, I'd like to state that I am a firm believer in boosting instead of nerfing in MMOs. As some more vocal pundits have said, they enjoy going fast in their nano ships, picking and preying on targets at will. Nerfing aspects of gameplay adversely affect that part of the customer base. On the other hand, given the outcry for a nano nerf, not doing something can be just as bad.
That being said, I find the new use of warp scramblers ingenious. I expected (and am glad) that ceptors are expected by CCP to be on top of the speed scale. I am disappointed to see nerfs to speeds of ships, even though I haven't seen the actual stats yet. I think there could have been other changes made that would been more balanced in the end.
- Keep the change to warp scramblers. Ingenious, I wish I had thought of it.
- Boost afterburners. They need to be able to compete with MWDs on larger ships. Tanked ships (BCs, Battleships, etc.) use MWDs for two reasons: to dictate range and run back to gates/through bubbles (unless you're Burn Eden. If only we all could have such skill ) A speed bonus for afterburners and a scram bonus seems perfect for assault ships.
- Fix Precision munitions. Bring heavy precisions into line with light and cruise as well as increasing velocity (decreasing fight time to keep the same range) so they can catch up to fast ships. Light Precs for anti-nano-frigates, heavies for anti-nano-cruisers, cruises for anti-cruiser.
- Modify webs to accomidate longer-ranged orbits, perhaps by including a falloff. I won't argue specific figures, but give risk to ships orbiting withing T2 scram range. Say, 10km + 6km falloff range.
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Cat Gilligan
Caldari Blair Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:18:00 -
[895]
A better solution:
Hardcap speed. This way you actually accomplish the goal without messing around with too many game mechanics, throwing the game into chaos (which the current proposal will do) and cause the Devs to spend the next YEAR fixing the problems that will be introduced.
Put a speed "hardcap" on each hull type. This will be the maximum speed the ship will go, regardless of gang bonuses, implants, or other fitting. This will maintain the value of those bonuses and actually open up more possibilities for fitting. This will bring values down to approximately what is currently being proposed but without the collateral damage.
You could "soften" the hardcap by putting in diminishing returns for values that would take you past the cap, but to a maximum variance of, say, 10%.
Values could be:
Interceptors: 10kms T1 Frigates: 5kms T2 Frigates: 6kms
Destroyers/Dictors: 2kms
T1 Cruisers: 2.5kms T2 Cruisers: 3kms
T1 Battleships: 1kms T2 Battleships: 1.2kms
We can argue about the numbers, but isn't this a better solution than making people's uber expensive implants, rigs, and other stuff suddenly worth far less? Sure in combination, they will be, but taken individually they will still be worth what they are now.
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Aenis Veros
Caldari Alphaflight
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:18:00 -
[896]
Originally by: Entelechia
We have something like this already. We call them stasis webifiers. In fact, we even have ships that are really good at catching nanoships and stopping them cold. They are called the Rapier and the Huginn.
No, stasis webifiers slow a ship down, and do not disable your module. What I propose here is a module that stops you dead in the water and disables your MWD at very short range, or scripted does either effect.
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gavhriel
Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:18:00 -
[897]
I'm thrilled to see the CCP actualy tries to improve the gameplay. (of course those ideas need to be tested and twiched)
You like pvp ? nano actually killed solo pvp in the way that you couldn;t do solo pvp without being a nano yourself during this time shitting your pants in fear of losing your pimped ship.
you like to roam ? roam in cheaper ships...yes you will die more often but you wont lose 1 bil ships+fittings+implants (and ofc snakes and polycarbon rigs will be cheaper....3km/sec hac will be afordable by more people...the ones that dont own moons)
EVE was dominated by small gangs of nano hacs and recons and every new player that joined the game found out that he needs 1 year+ of trainning to be actualy any good at pvp. After the changes you might actually have a chance in an assault frig to kill a hac :)
Small ships are hugely buffed vs larger ships and this is a good thing.
Addapt people, or ofc quit :) (dont forget to send some stuff this way ... i'll actually start flying nanos more often that's for sure)
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:19:00 -
[898]
Jeez, do we really need 34 pages to state the obvious?
CCP, work on boosts instead of nerfs. Stop being so damned negative. :P
Black Hand.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:22:00 -
[899]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
As another poster said, we'll still see broken ships/setups, you're reducing everyone's speed, not just the nanos'. Now you'll have 6k vagas with snakes and T2 polycarbs and all, and what will there be to stop them? Everything is slow now.
Ships don't kill ships. Weapon systems do.
Weapon systems can match a 5-6k vaga with a MWD signature if set up right. Not a 10k vaga.
It's not as much about ship speed vs. ship speed, but ship speed vs. tracking/explosion/velocity/speed of weapon systems.
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Meridius Dex
Amarr Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:22:00 -
[900]
Holy crap, dude! I was reading every page up to 14 or so but, every page I read, four more pages are being added to the end of this monster! LOL So I'm jumping up to 32 to say (if it hasn't already been said):
At first glance it looks like short range interceptors are really screwed by the scrambler changes, but then you realize that short range interceptors will fit afterburners while interceptors with optimal ranges greater than 10 km will stick with microwarpdrives. So you see, calming down for a minute to really consider the changes already leads to some exciting new strategies. And that's just in the first five minutes -- imagine what will happen after the Eve community has a couple of weeks to really work through these changes.
And yes this makes MWDs a lot more tactical. I really appreciate the fact that they are trying to prevent them from being used on every single PVP ship (a long-term gripe of mine!). And, as a long-suffering Amarr, I will appreciate the fact that I can finally start fitting ABs on more ships in more varied tactical situations.
I have to say it's always enjoyable to see the types of persons who whine the loudest when a nerf comes down. Everyone knew that Triumvirate has been crying the loudest against a nano Nerf for the longest time. It's a shame their previous incarnation is basically dead or I would really be enjoying these tears right about now. (And obviously an alliance-wide evemail was sent out from PL earlier this morning to spam this thread with all their nano might! LOL)
I'm still not sure why Goumindong's idea of graduated webifier strength/ranges was not at least tried on the test server. I think it's an interesting idea that warp scramblers will have this added effect -- it does take a previously all-but-useless module and makes it tactically worthwhile. I'm not sure about it, but I trust that CCP has been working their physics supercomputer day and night and have really put a good deal of thought into this. And if the stacking speed nerf combined with 50% webs is what will do the trick, then count me in.
And, as Rawr Christina said, the following has always been true: 90% Webs and MWD have been overpowered must-fit modules for far too long. -- Meridius Dex --
Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
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