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New Dev Blog: Speed Rebalanced by Nozh

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
RuriHoshino Minmatar Stimulus	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:32:00 - [3211] Originally by: THRASHER23 humm no response from ccp for 10's of pages now...stfu and deal with it mode? If this quote was actually posted here by Nohz- "I also want to point out something nobody seems to have mentioned regarding warp scramblers and them possibly being overpowered. Prior to the changes the stasis webifier reduced your speed by 90%, without touching your huge signature radius. So you were slow and had a huge signature radius. While the warp scrambler + stasis webifier after the changes does indeed reduce your speed more than a -90% webifier, your signature radius is small." -and it elicited the response it deserved, then I can understand why they might not want to come back here. Can I assume, without digging through the last 20 pages or so, that enough "corrections" were posted regarding this supposed benefit as to ensure a proper understanding between the devs and players was reached? ________________
Jaabaa Prime Minmatar Quam Singulari	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:54:00 - [3212] Dear CCP, Please don't do open heart surgery on a five year old game. Adapt, yes, but drastically changing the advantages the only racial advantage that the Minmatars have ? NO If you continue with the proposed changes you will totally imbalance the game, a balance that you have been working on for over 5 years now. So just adjust stuff and not completely change it. Who's idea was it that a WS should disengage a MWD ? Whats next ? A webber that can scramble too ? A module with a dual effect, thats a serious WTF? --
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:13:00 - [3213] Originally by: RuriHoshino Originally by: THRASHER23 humm no response from ccp for 10's of pages now...stfu and deal with it mode? If this quote was actually posted here by Nohz- "I also want to point out something nobody seems to have mentioned regarding warp scramblers and them possibly being overpowered. Prior to the changes the stasis webifier reduced your speed by 90%, without touching your huge signature radius. So you were slow and had a huge signature radius. While the warp scrambler + stasis webifier after the changes does indeed reduce your speed more than a -90% webifier, your signature radius is small." -and it elicited the response it deserved, then I can understand why they might not want to come back here. Can I assume, without digging through the last 20 pages or so, that enough "corrections" were posted regarding this supposed benefit as to ensure a proper understanding between the devs and players was reached? eh, dood, pro tip: if you cant concievably get away with the MWD you shut it off and tank your best? s
SomeHardLovin The Nietzian Way Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:15:00 - [3214] Biggest problem with Nano vs everything else is it is only fun for the Nano gang. My only hope for this patch/nerf is that it makes small gang combat a little faster (paced!) with a bit more action. There's nothing I hate more than sitting out with a group of huggins/rapiers/neut domix WAITING for someone to POSSIBLY, MAYBE come into range.. and just when the two groups meet.. they are suddenlt 250km apart. Wow.. fun. Zzz. My hope is that the speed fix means more roaming gangs coming into direct contact with eachother when they decide to fight straight up. Guerilla tactics do not include the small stealthy band of fighters engaging a 20 man fleet and winning. They do include finding lone stragglers in space and killing them.. and I have no problems with that at all. I want to see HAC/AF groups together fighting furiously 5 on 5 or whatever with wrecks littering the battlefield with the less skilled pilots. THAT sounds fun to me. Make that happen CCP. Gentle with the nerf bat. --- * The opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my corporation or alliance.
Vengal Seyhan Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:15:00 - [3215] Originally by: Aenis Veros Originally by: Sakura Nihil Where's this new Nozh post btw? Nowhere, CCP are ignoring this thread and only saying things on Sisi. Unfortunately that means that they could just deny anything like that. From what I understand is that this patch will go ahead as announced and tweaking will be done over the next months. Wrong. That's almost to the point of blatant trolling. There are fresh Dev posts in various threads on the Game Development forum. In particular there's a feedback thread with actual stats from player testing in it. Go read, perhaps.
Turkantho Asgard Schiffswerften Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:42:00 - [3216] Edited by: Turkantho on 29/07/2008 19:42:06 Quote: [16:30:10] CCP Nozh > we're taking a look at missile speed and explosion velocity to balance it out. from a chatlog prolly posted in this thread as well I got a proposal, how a bout not nerfing things so hard that you have to nerf other things to compensate the first nerf ? ________ Sometimes paranoiaÆs just having all the facts.
Jimmy 4chan H A V O C The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:52:00 - [3217] The more I think about it, the worse this change is. Just removing mass from the equation is enough to nerf every HAC into oblivion while still making intys/**tors viable and fast. The scram "feature" that turns off mwds is passable I guess, it certainly nerfs nanos, and is a huge boost to the Gallente Recons. Beyond that however, the changes are horrible. THE worst idea in the whole thing was mwd reactivation delay. If you think this is a good idea, I want you to tell me how many hours a week you play this game. Yes Devs, I want an answer to that. If you want this reactivation delay change to go through, I want you to honestly tell me how many hours you play per week.** I think it's very few, so in that case, listen to experience and reason, please. Nerfing HACs and making it impossible to reasonably fit more than 4-5 speed mods is fine, that's already a huge nerf to high end speeds. But some of the other changes are crap. Oh also, leave MWDs alone, you're changing the 1 mod that is more crucial to most 0.0 setups than anything else. If you want us to use afterburners, boost them. Don't nerf the alternatives just because the afterburner sucks.
Dez Affinity Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:54:00 - [3218] Originally by: Pushtan oh god, 4chan tit on board...not suprising seeing as youre tri...oh wait, was that a personal attack? it was indeed, now Shut. The Hell. Up with the personal/killboard stats and prepare to realise: NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK/SAY/DO YOU WONT SURVIVE THIS UNLESS YOU ADAPT LITTLE MAN. K, now, once again, back the ****ing subject at hand...how hard is it... End of the little 'war' you have on me with words. dipshit I've already adapted to nanos, that's why I can kill them and you can't. You refuse to use the ways of killing nanos that already exists and DEMAND that CCP adapt the game for you instead of you actually learning how to play the game. _______________
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:16:00 - [3219] Originally by: NemisisEnforcer You know I didn't even realize it at first but CCP Nozh is the same fool that came up with the proposed and failed carrier nerf as well. CCP you should not let this guy come up with ideas anymore as he always gets you in trouble with your players. WE MAKE EVE WHAT IT IS. Without us you are nothing and your little "don't make I quit" threats remark Mr Nozh was cute. Eat shit. You drastically change game play and people will quit as they have invested time, skill training, isk, real money, and a lot of thought into their setups and for you to just take that away is bullshit. Nope, it wasn't Nozh. He-Who-Should-Not-Be-Named was ZuluPark. I still have the Raggedy Andy costume for him, and Michael Jackson still has the Rhopinal-laced Jesus Juice waiting for him. Grandma might not have paid her internet bill so the live feed might not be ready, however. I fully support this change. Ships should not be allowed to fly so fast that no weapon can hit them.
Dez Affinity Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:51:00 - [3220] Originally by: Princess Jodi I fully support this change. Ships should not be allowed to fly so fast that no weapon can hit them. Webs dont need tracking, I don't understand what you mean. _______________

Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:55:00 - [3221] I think something people forget is that the REASON speed was imbalanced was not because of the invulnerability factor. It's that Speed and the potential for speed was held in such regard that ships with little potential for speed or a basic inability to effectively engage a speedy target had no purpose in much of Eve PVP. Imbalance occurs when you have no justifiable reason to do something a different way. Way back in the early days of Eve, before stacking nerfs the 8 Heatsink carrying Amarr BS was the undisputed master of PVP. There was no reason to fly ANYTHING else - you simply couldn't compete with that level of damage output. Invulnerability speed, though annoying when encountered was hardly common. Assault Missile Launchers with flare rigs let me hurt most nano ships out there but the pace and tempo of the battle was still being dictated by the ships my Cerberus is built do take out. Could I get kills? Sure - but only if the other guy made a mistake. Personally, I was satisfied finding a ship that could actually do ANYTHING to the increasingly common nano boat in the Caldari lineup.
Jesse Jamess Caldari Red Tides	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:56:00 - [3222] Originally by: Princess Jodi Originally by: NemisisEnforcer You know I didn't even realize it at first but CCP Nozh is the same fool that came up with the proposed and failed carrier nerf as well. CCP you should not let this guy come up with ideas anymore as he always gets you in trouble with your players. WE MAKE EVE WHAT IT IS. Without us you are nothing and your little "don't make I quit" threats remark Mr Nozh was cute. Eat shit. You drastically change game play and people will quit as they have invested time, skill training, isk, real money, and a lot of thought into their setups and for you to just take that away is bullshit. Nope, it wasn't Nozh. He-Who-Should-Not-Be-Named was ZuluPark. I still have the Raggedy Andy costume for him, and Michael Jackson still has the Rhopinal-laced Jesus Juice waiting for him. Grandma might not have paid her internet bill so the live feed might not be ready, however. I fully support this change. Ships should not be allowed to fly so fast that no weapon can hit them. I fully support there being an intelligence test before your ability to post on caod...
FlameGlow Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:06:00 - [3223] Originally by: Jimmy 4chan Oh also, leave MWDs alone, you're changing the 1 mod that is more crucial to most 0.0 setups than anything else. If you want us to use afterburners, boost them. Don't nerf the alternatives just because the afterburner sucks. Isn't that exactly why they want to change it? _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Prez21 coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:07:00 - [3224] Originally by: Pushtan Originally by: Matrixcvd Originally by: Pushtan Edited by: Pushtan on 29/07/2008 15:09:27 Edited by: Pushtan on 29/07/2008 15:07:41 Originally by: Matrixcvd Edited by: Matrixcvd on 29/07/2008 15:06:27 Originally by: Pushtan Edited by: Pushtan on 29/07/2008 13:46:18 Guys, why would they invest the hours and whatnot into making something thyere NOT going to put out? They may change it a little, but not cancel it...this thing is GOING TO HAPPEN. ed; spelling http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Pushtan-kills.html 72 kills to 51 losses. You do well for soloing. As usual your point is meaningless. Point by the /me, the tit, has been made. thats why you need to STFU, you don't know what your talking about, and wreak of failsauce. Now the discussion is about isk? as if we need to go into the have and have nots? See thats the problem for horrible videogame players, like you. The game mirrors RL too much. If you suck, you die alot and can't get anywhere. You waste RL money on GTC purchases only to see those ratting ravens and your PVP drakes lit up. Does a ferrari beat a ford, in nearly every case. If you don't spend the money to fit your ships properly you're wasting your time. Grind in this game is time, time to wait for skillz to finish while you PVP in ships within your level and hopefully learn the lessons so that you can play with the big boys in the near future, not sit in a pool of your own p1ss and cry for nerfs every time you get slaughtered. Eve is like a Le Mans race, except with gunz. Alot of different classes of Pilots, with regards to skill, ships, wealth, all competing at the same time. You can't possibly begin to think cause you suck, the Devs should make the game so you can win do you? Lets put the nano nerf into something primitive that you can understand Its like completely dumbing down the competition. lets say you enter a spelling competition with people age 4 to 40, and their age is the number of letters possible in their given words. Doesn't sound to fair huh? well a drake with the 4 mil in SP and 50 mil under the hood can easily kill pretty much everything because of these stupid changes. So try again ret3rds. oh god, 4chan tit on board...not suprising seeing as youre tri...oh wait, was that a personal attack? it was indeed, now Shut. The Hell. Up with the personal/killboard stats and prepare to realise: NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK/SAY/DO YOU WONT SURVIVE THIS UNLESS YOU ADAPT LITTLE MAN. K, now, once again, back the ****ing subject at hand...how hard is it... End of the little 'war' you have on me with words. dipshit You tried to make a point that you can solo just as effectively in non nano ships as you can in nano ships, the killboard says you suck at pvp and have no clue what your talking about and your only response is shut the hell up and adapt, your just aclueless troll who is clutching to this patch in hopes it will allow you to actualy compete in pvp.
little Psychobitch	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:10:00 - [3225] Give me my ISK back for the Snake Imps, This Nerf is crap
KennyWar	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:12:00 - [3226] Edited by: KennyWar on 29/07/2008 21:11:43 me too, Money back and then Nerf,...
Jimmy 4chan H A V O C The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:13:00 - [3227] Edited by: Jimmy 4chan on 29/07/2008 21:14:35 Originally by: FlameGlow Originally by: Jimmy 4chan Oh also, leave MWDs alone, you're changing the 1 mod that is more crucial to most 0.0 setups than anything else. If you want us to use afterburners, boost them. Don't nerf the alternatives just because the afterburner sucks. Isn't that exactly why they want to change it? Look I don't mind if they make it viable to fly BS and HACs through 0.0 without mwds, and I certainly would love to be able to fit an afterburner without dying horribly and having everyone laugh over the killmail. But don't you see, everyone will still use mwds with this change? The fact that everyone's speed is getting nerfed makes them even more crucial, and even after all of this, they're NERFING the afterburner. I don't recall anyone saying it's overpowered, but mebbe I haven't been playing the same game CCP has. Originally by: "CCP" Afterburners are being slightly adjusted to decrease the variation in speed boost from 105-171% to 112.5-162% Great move. edit: As posted in the development forum, plugging in a LG snake omega is now worse than plugging in any 1 of the 2 5% speed implants. hahaha I am sooo glad I never bought snakes, however much I've been tempted.
Necile	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:21:00 - [3228] What about a complete change on MWD ? : The MWD no longer boost speed +500% but alow to warp on a target in the grid (less than 250km of distance). I know it is a complete change but this could introduce new tactics and gameplay. The only active speed boost would remain the AB. This may solve all problems about incredible speed for some nanoships.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:26:00 - [3229] Originally by: Necile What about a complete change on MWD ? : The MWD no longer boost speed +500% but alow to warp on a target in the grid (less than 250km of distance). I know it is a complete change but this could introduce new tactics and gameplay. The only active speed boost would remain the AB. This may solve all problems about incredible speed for some nanoships. You have a good point... Ships in Warp can't shoot, so why should ships in micro warp be able to? In fact you can't even lock while in warp... brings a whole new set of tactics... --------*****-------- "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:29:00 - [3230] crow 3x overdrive injector II 1x 1mn microwarp drive II 2x polycarb I full snake set zors custom navigation hyper link 6.6km/s I want to vomit. my tq crow does just over 7km/s with 2x Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II and NO rigs zors custom and 2 3% implants. and I would still get ****d by a destroyer, and do remember ships don't orbit at maximum velocity. ....

T2Shuttle	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:36:00 - [3231] I think you should rebalance ecm as well. CCP gave all ecm but jamming scripts, and now jamming is way overpowered. It has awesome range AND effect, and the counter, ECCM hardly works. I suggest a boost to eccm, maybe up to 30-40% and adding scripts to jammers just like other ecm. Have 1 script for jamming strength with nerfed range, and 1 for range with nerfed strength. Don't flame me, I'm only suggesting it be BALANCED with other ecms all of which are obsolete compared to the strength of jamming. Lets keep in mind that since nano blobs are really the only current defense against falcons, this 'balancing' actually makes falcons stronger since fewer ships will be able to close the gap to actually fight them.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:44:00 - [3232] Originally by: Haakelen I used to tell people who asked about Eve that all the negativity was wrong. More SP didn't matter as much, I would say, because you could specialize. You could find a nice ship that you like, get to within 2-5% of a multiyear vet, and work from there. Specialization was the key. The way to success was to NOT crosstrain all to hell. I feel really guilty for giving people that impression, and leading them into a game that will, overnight, do a complete 180 in terms of small-scale PvP. Into a direction that is nothing but negative. Very good point SKUNK
IronGoldenEagle NightHawk Phantom Fleet The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:49:00 - [3233] CCP and Nozh you fail Could go into a longer description of how I feel about these changes but CCP doesn't care. They dont care that my intereceptor is useless and that I will be flying t2 fitted t1 frigs from now on as there is no point in flying anything else. COuld rant about how I dont have massive amounts of money and dont use snake implants but I feel that if my enemy is willing to spend 800 mil on a ship (and alot more for snakes) to beat my 100 mil ship and he outskills me I think he should deserve to beat me. I could also rave about the MWD as you are now making it practically useless in short range warfare (within 25 km) So tell me whats my intereceptor supposed to do? I can stay out of web range at about 12 km minimum and then lose my MWD and put put around at 1600 m/s? Then they get into range easy and web me down. Lovely. Intereceptors are now useless except to get a quick sacrificial tackle. 22 mil per tackle CCP? Missles shouldnt get a boost, they fine as is imo. NERF THE RIGS CCP NOT ALL SPEED MODULES YOU IDIOTS!!!!! Just trying to make me quit this game one nerf at a time. Time for the t1 frig blobs. Might as well now, small gang warfare is gonna take a huge hit from this.
GateScout	Posted - 2008.07.29 22:02:00 - [3234] Originally by: IronGoldenEagle I could also rave about the MWD as you are now making it practically useless in short range warfare (within 25 km) Why is it useless at 24km? It's only the warp scramblers (2 pts, range about 9km) that disable MWDs, correct? What did I miss?
Zanquis Caldari SUBLIME L.L.C. - AMARR	Posted - 2008.07.29 22:20:00 - [3235] I think you nailed the problem right on the head, however I do not like your solution as it will kill Gurilla warfare and speed as a form of defense. You need to make Speed into a form of tank in this game with its own strenghts and weakness. It should be agile and use evasion (ie increased miss chance) to defend itself giving the speedy pilot the ability to position himself in an advantagous way, and reduce the damage he receives from weapon fire through his speed. However the overall speed at which nano travels needs to be brought down quite a bit, and at no point should a nano ship be immune to damage from weapon fire. I suggest you create a speed/evasion based tank system and use some ships which have it as a natural tank, such as the Vagabond. These ships should depend on the reduced damage given to them from their speed in the evasion but be unable to fit a strong traditional tank in addition to the speed tank. <a href="http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/toys/testgen/6199/"><img src="http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/9/9/6199/25765.jpg" title="Gunslinger" alt="Gunslinger" border="0" /></a><br />Gunslinger<br /
jongalt	Posted - 2008.07.29 22:35:00 - [3236] lolololololololololololol -jg.
Penta Minmatar SuX ltd.	Posted - 2008.07.29 23:00:00 - [3237] I play this game for almost 6 years now (way back in beta). I never understood why CCP would nerf or buff shit all the time. It's like the laws of physics get changed all the time. Why can't they do it right for a change? Nano ships are fun to fly but they are actually crap. When they go "Ludicrous fast" (God that sounds like Doctor Evil in Austin Powers), they do "Ludicrous" damage, as in practically 0. Unless you slow down you can do some real damage, which makes a nano pretty vulnerable. So the only way to do some about it is to introduce new modules! I like the idea of a scrambler that deactivates the MWD. With that you don't need to do anything else cause a nano will be dead the moment it gets scrambled. This way our laws of physics in EVE stay the same and we won't feel cheated. Still the fuzz about nano is overrated. Ok they can outrun damage, but like I said before they won't do much damage themselves when they go that fast. They probable won't even have a lock on you when they run that fast. 1 things for sure. If CCP keeps ****ing us up like this nerfing I'm gonna be even faster then the fastest nano ever seen with the ride out of here! (cancel subscription all the way). I haven't bought a monster PC with 30" to see more blobs and their lag. The Syndome
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.29 23:06:00 - [3238] EvE online is for BLOB EVE ONLINE IS FOR BLOB BLOBLOBLOBLOBLOBLOBLOB BLOB BLOB Blob BLOB ->BLOB<- AmI doing it right Curzon?
Gustav Seriya Corp 1 Allstars The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.29 23:33:00 - [3239] Edited by: Gustav Seriya on 29/07/2008 23:34:27 After flying my nanoships about on the test server... The removal of mass reduction from the game is huge all by itself. Mass reduction, especially through the superefficient Polycarbon Engine Housing, added significant non-stacking speed and agility bonuses as well as a unique acceleration bonus to the game. With mass reduction gone I don't see that everything else needs to be nerfed quite so heavily. In particular I think setting all MWDs to a flat +500% is horrible, this removes variety from the game and destroys the value of a lot of faction modules. The cap penalty is clearly not that important because everyone and their mother fits MWD; MWDs should still give different speed boosts.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.07.30 00:20:00 - [3240] I missed this thread for the past 5 days. Just read through the devblog and I'm left wondering how exactly these changes will fix the actual problem. I see a bunch of relatively minor balance tweaks (good ones, but still minor ones) and no solutions for issues like stasis web agility modification. Another thing that troubles me is that the graphs are incorrect. If they were meant to accurately portray the maximum obtainable speed on ships, the maximums are very much short of real values. They also ignore racial variations of ships like the Vagabond. However, I will reserve judgement for now. If all of these minor tweaks add up to a complete solution, I'll be impressed. Pillowsoft - Join the Pillowsoft Gallente Militia, get free ships and support.



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