Quote:

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--exploitative players look for the new exploit in EVE--

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Oh and I can almost guarentee the suggested changes will open up more loopholes then it will fix. My mouth drools at the possibillities.

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Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Oh and I can almost guarentee the suggested changes will open up more loopholes then it will fix. My mouth drools at the possibillities.

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No i think your lying,because if you were good at ship set ups you wouldnt of jumped on the Nano bandwagon and be here crying about the nerf.

NEXT!!!!!

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Quote:

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Q: Why don't most games have some sort of feature that allows for stat distribution? Example being games such as Ragnarok Online and Maple Story, generally most Korean games have this. By stat distribution, I'm talking about something where whenever you level up, you gain points to spend on leveling up different stats, rather than having a set amount depending on the class you choose, and having to rely on armor.

It just seems lame how in games such as WoW every class can be the same if they use the same armor, whereas something such as Ragnarok you can have such a dynamic, unique character. Is it simply too complicated to implement, or is it something better tuned for a grinding based game?

I know all MMO's are meant to be different, unique experiences, but wouldn't most companies rather break the mold and go for something that allows for extreme customization?

A: Newer games don't allow for stat pumping (or even choosing them at all) because people will make the (possibly) wrong decisions and gimp their character. Then they get *ANGRY* about it. So, newer games took out that temptation. I mean, if as a mage you should always pump INT, why not just have the game pump INT for you? Remove the temptation of your deciding you're going to be that one unique and special snowflake that is a muscleman wizard.

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Originally by: Torfi

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There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses

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Originally by: Oveur

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Quote:

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A: Newer patches don't allow for module fitting (or even choosing them at all) because people will make the (possibly) wrong decisions and gimp their ship. Then they get *ANGRY* and forum whine about it. So, newer games took out that temptation. I mean, if you fly ship X you should always have that cookie-cutter fitting, why not just have the game fit the ship for you? Remove the temptation of your deciding you're going to be that one unique and special snowflake that is a passive shieldtanked geddeon.

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Originally by: justsometrader

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much text

much whine

much fail

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Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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No i think your lying,because if you were good at ship set ups you wouldnt of jumped on the Nano bandwagon and be here crying about the nerf.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.

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Originally by: Cailais

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Good post - EVE always has been 'adapt, or die'. Good players who actually understand the wider scope of EVE warfare will stay on top. Poor players, who cant will wither and die (quite a lot).

C.

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Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

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Originally by: DubanFP

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I'd say
Great FoTM players: Adapt quickly and find the holes.
Ok FoTM players: Watch the great players and follow suit in greater numbers.
Bad FoTM players: Whine about changes instead of doing either of the above.

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Originally by: Elise Randolph

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Everybody wins when trolls get trolled.

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Originally by: Zephyr Rengate

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Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 25/07/2008 22:19:54

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

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Missiles able to hit everything balanced?

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Originally by: Napro

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Edited by: Napro on 25/07/2008 22:31:42
Edited by: Napro on 25/07/2008 22:31:16

Originally by: Zephyr Rengate

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Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 25/07/2008 22:19:54

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

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Missiles able to hit everything balanced?

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Don't like it? Fit Defender Missiles.

Can I outrun rails or lasers or drones? No.

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 22:51:38
I've come up with 2 ways to exploit the new system. Assuming the changes come in exactly as the devs said them.

1) This one has been mentioned before and is not uber-poweful. Afterburning Assault frigates at close range. With the web changes it's as difficult to fight as modern interceptors, but much much more powerful. The only way to kill it is to overpower it with another frigate or gank it. This promotes the blob in addition to removing the solo-capible nanoships, which is bad. The only frigate that can overpower an AF is another AF.

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 23:03:39

Originally by: Napro

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the difference is nano is a broken game mechanic never intended by the devs

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Jet can mining along with many others was never an intended mechanic either. You're not whining about that are you? These are just things that can be used to get the results a person is looking for. Also look at the "vagabond" and tell me with a strait face that it was never meant to nano.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

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Originally by: Zurrar

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the speeds it reaches isnt meant to be. nano really wasnt that much of a problem till rigs... i hate rigs... i wish it was like the good old days.

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Originally by: Ozmodan

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Not one of your so called nerfs have been bad for the game. Not one.

When a cruiser outruns my interceptor, something is darn wrong. I am glad CCP realizes the problem and is addressing it appropriately. It was obvious to anyone that this was a serious issue that needed addressed.

When you abuse any portion of a game, especially one that is available only to the select group, you can count on it,t hat things will get changed.

Change does not always favor you, but whether it does or not you can always expect you will have to adapt. So I suggest you adapt intead of complaining.

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Originally by: DubanFP

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2) This one I won't give away the exact details of. I'm keeping it for myself. It requies a bit of an investment, but it is possible to abuse the new system to amazing effect. If I am correct it will have all the advantages of a modern nanoship while being completely immune to everything nanos fear. With the decrease in modern nanoships it will have even less rivals to deal with.

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 23:13:20

Originally by: Zurrar

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the speeds it reaches isnt meant to be. nano really wasnt that much of a problem till rigs... i hate rigs... i wish it was like the good old days.

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You've never seen a Nano Battleships of old have you lol. Anyways rigs add to nanoship speed, but they don't really push nanoships very much farther then they already were without them. Only thing it really changes is the dynamics between 2 nanoships which doesn't really matter in this sense anyways. Nanos may have some issues, but drastic changes like this will probebly open more holes then it fixes.

Notice that the 2 people argueing have entirely different reasons for believing nanoships have issues. Lots of people say nanos need to be nerfed but few can agree on why, lol. You can ask 20 different people and get 20 different answers.

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Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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yes vagbonds should be the fastest cruiser but not that fast that they out run missiles.

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Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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yes vagbonds should be the fastest cruiser but not that fast that they out run missiles.

if cant get that into your thick skull well at least you got your vagabond for a month or 2 more.

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Originally by: Sid Zero

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Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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yes vagbonds should be the fastest cruiser but not that fast that they out run missiles.

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Why the hell not?

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Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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Originally by: Sid Zero

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Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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yes vagbonds should be the fastest cruiser but not that fast that they out run missiles.

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Why the hell not?

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Cuz it makes baby jesus cry.

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Originally by: Ozmodan

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When a cruiser outruns my interceptor, something is darn wrong.

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Originally by: Ozmodan

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When you abuse any portion of a game, especially one that is available only to the select group

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Originally by: Viqtoria

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it's called balancing the game, i'm sorry that you don't get how to manage an mmo, but it's really not my problem nor my intention to educate you tbh.

Simply put, anything that begets itself simply is bad for the game, any game.

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Originally by: Grath Telkin

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Originally by: Ozmodan

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When a cruiser outruns my interceptor, something is darn wrong.

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Yes, it means the ceptor pilot can't fit his ship right and needs to rethink what he's doing

Originally by: Ozmodan

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When you abuse any portion of a game, especially one that is available only to the select group

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What game are you playing, Nano ships were available to everybody...nvm, your an idiot

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Edited by: DubanFP on 26/07/2008 02:04:04

Originally by: Viqtoria

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it's called balancing the game, i'm sorry that you don't get how to manage an mmo, but it's really not my problem nor my intention to educate you tbh.

Simply put, anything that begets itself simply is bad for the game, any game.

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Thank you for missing the entire point of my post entirely. Note that every nerf was followed by something as bad or worse as the nerfs before it. The current nerf is actually more balanced then everything that came before it. I can name at least 5 things that it'll open up that are far worse then anything EVE has ever seen.

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Originally by: Napro

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Quote:

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--exploitative players look for the new exploit in EVE--

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Fixed
Rest is all true

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Originally by: Cailais

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Good post - EVE always has been 'adapt, or die'. Good players who actually understand the wider scope of EVE warfare will stay on top. Poor players, who cant will wither and die (quite a lot).

C.

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Originally by: Napro

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Don't like it? Fit Defender Missiles.

Can I outrun rails or lasers or drones? No.

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 23:13:20

Originally by: Zurrar

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the speeds it reaches isnt meant to be. nano really wasnt that much of a problem till rigs... i hate rigs... i wish it was like the good old days.

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You've never seen a Nano Battleships of old have you lol. Anyways rigs add to nanoship speed, but they don't really push nanoships very much farther then they already were without them. Only thing it really changes is the dynamics between 2 nanoships which doesn't really matter in this sense anyways. Nanos may have some issues, but drastic changes like this will probebly open more holes then it fixes

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Originally by: DubanFP

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FoM: Nano-ships. With all the alternatives removed/nerfed Nanos begin to take the spotlight again. Especailly effective is the removal of nosferatu, the best counter to Nanos. Nanoships offer superior Survivabillity but require considerable investments and are offensively much weaker then the pure powerhouse equivilent in terms of isk and SP. Whines abound

--See recent events--

Future: --experienced players look for the new power in EVE--


Notice that everything CCP nerfed wound up with players just finding something else to replace it, until it was nerfed and replaced by something else. It's the good players that are always finding new things, and we always will find better things. It's kind of sad when people whine instead of adapting because good players will always find the best advantage while bad players will always lag behind.

In truth Nanofibers are probebly one of the most balanced things on this list. Most whines come from people who encounter them in ships significantly cheaper because they thought they should be able to take them power wise, but can't finish them because of their trade of. Interestingly enough most whines revolve around transversal. Funny thing is most nano-pilots fly them for reasons entirely different then transversal just because what they can't hit you can't hit back. Most, not all, of the whines here come from people who don't know what they're talking about.

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Thank you for missing the entire point of my post entirely. Note that every nerf was followed by something as bad or worse as the nerfs before it. The current nerf is actually more balanced then everything that came before it. I can name at least 5 things that it'll open up that are far worse then anything EVE has ever seen.

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Originally by: El ConejoBlanco

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The fact that the GM said that CCP wants skirmish warfare to still be a part of the game in a blog about nerfing nanos is a giant contradiction. Skirmish warfare isn't about 100% commitment to the fight. It's about hit and run, take what you can, all while mitigating your losses. The skirmish warfare type of fighting isn't for everyone, but if this nerf goes through, it's one less type of fighting that will be seen. Frankly, I play this game because of the options I have when selecting fittings and ships, and I choose what I feel will be best for the current situation. Nerfing nanos leaves me one less option, and makes the "sandbox" that much smaller by taking one more toy off the playground.

Nerfing webs along with nanos has no point either. Any ship with a propulsion mod that has you webbed will be on top of you and have enough DPS poured on by the end of things it won't matter what speed you were reduced to.

Cruisers outrunning missiles is possible with the current game mechanics, yes. But we are talking an uber-T2 rig fit cruiser. If I pay that kind of money, I SHOULD be able to outrun your run-of-the-mill missiles. The current mechanics are flawed anyway. Any real missile doesn't have the fuel to track and follow it's target to hit it, except for specialized "heatseeking" missiles, which the in-game "precisions" would be the equivalent of. A real missile is given coordinates by a computer to intersect its target, so those in-game heavy missiles that aren't hitting that 6k Vagabond, well, shouldn't be. Take the time to train the ammo that does. Took me months to train for T2 med guns so I could use Barrage, giving me the ability to fly in the design it was intended.
There is no clear point as to what the problem is, except that lazy pilots complain about not taking the time to engage their brain to catch a nanoship in it's orbit. There are many counters to a nanoship, maybe the carebears should think about adapting this time.

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Originally by: El ConejoBlanco

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Cruisers outrunning missiles is possible with the current game mechanics, yes. But we are talking an uber-T2 rig fit cruiser. If I pay that kind of money, I SHOULD be able to outrun your run-of-the-mill missiles. The current mechanics are flawed anyway. Any real missile doesn't have the fuel to track and follow it's target to hit it, except for specialized "heatseeking" missiles, which the in-game "precisions" would be the equivalent of.

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Originally by: El ConejoBlanco

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Good post. Was looking for a list of things that had been nerfed. Now it seems easier to get a list of things that haven't been nerfed. I just wish I had more of a heads up so I know not to waste my training time and ISK on something that isn't going to work in the future.

A T2 fitted and rigged Vagabond that only does 4k(in a straight line) can be webbed by a 1600 plated rupture that can overheat. So what's the point of nano? Won't be any if you have to spend that kind of money on a pimp ship that loses to a T1 cruiser that costs a quarter less.

Lo sec space will die, again, if this goes through. How do solo pvpers find targets now without getting caught by a FW blob?
Seems like the so-called "sandbox" quality of the Eve playground is being replaced by a concrete one.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Originally by: El ConejoBlanco

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Good post. Was looking for a list of things that had been nerfed. Now it seems easier to get a list of things that haven't been nerfed. I just wish I had more of a heads up so I know not to waste my training time and ISK on something that isn't going to work in the future.

A T2 fitted and rigged Vagabond that only does 4k(in a straight line) can be webbed by a 1600 plated rupture that can overheat. So what's the point of nano? Won't be any if you have to spend that kind of money on a pimp ship that loses to a T1 cruiser that costs a quarter less.

Lo sec space will die, again, if this goes through. How do solo pvpers find targets now without getting caught by a FW blob?
Seems like the so-called "sandbox" quality of the Eve playground is being replaced by a concrete one.

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a tech 2 fitted vaga will still go 4000m/s after the nerf.

it won't go 12,000 m/s however.

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Originally by: Ruze

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First, maybe CCP has an entire run of changes ahead to help them draw us back to skirmish warfare. In fact, they probably got side-tracked to correct the overuse of a setup which was causing many players (note I don't pretend to declare which side was the majority) to lose interest and stop being productive gamers. Maybe, just maybe, they did the math and the few losses from this very MINOR change negated the larger losses of leaving it in-game.

Secondly, your opening a whole can of worms with your very poor 'real world missiles' argument. I mean, what's the applicable physics of a battleship slowing down after reaching velocity, or how about energy weapons having limited effective range, or even the whole concept of MWD and spacial distortion. You want to get technical? No, you don't, because you might find the game is no longer fun.

Apparently they have been focusing on the issue of 'more ships make you superior' for a long time. Many steps have been taken to counter it. Nano's weren't the only technique against it, they were just the most used, and they were quickly building up to where the NANO's were the blobs! If more is better, and nano's are invulnerable to certain weapons damages and have higher survivability, why not more nanos?

Nano's aren't dead. Lots of players will abandon them as their 'luster' has worn off and they will believe they are nerfed. But fast minmatar cruisers will still be harrassing us slow ass Amarr, and nano pilots will still be top of their game.

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Originally by: hired goon

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Hey yeah if I pay for it, I should have a ship that - according to CCP - breaks the physics engine of the game. Great argument. Also, if I can pay for it, my Bantam should be able to fire a tech 3 doomsday just by opening the map, right clicking a system, and selecting 'destroy all players here'.

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Originally by: Napro

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Can I outrun rails or lasers or drones? No.

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 22:17:03

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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No i think your lying,because if you were good at ship set ups you wouldnt of jumped on the Nano bandwagon and be here crying about the nerf.

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Isn't how good you are at a game based on your abillity to use the games rules for maximum effect? It's no different. I can guarentee IF the changes go live I'll be one of the first players looking for loopholes in the new system until that gets whined out. However it doesn't mean I want to see the changes go through. Some people have good reasons for disliking nanos, but how many of you whiners have been in a nanoship and not just facing against them? Most, especially the ones with arguements like yourself, don't know what it's like on the other side. Instead of finding out you whine.

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Originally by: Arlenna Molatov

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So, what you are saying is...every pilot should skirt the combat/physics engine then? So what will EVE become if every player flys a nano ship? You mean a game where EVERY single pilot flys the same setups and the same ships?

...

because it is SUCH A BIG GAME BREAKING ISSUE!

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Edited by: DubanFP on 26/07/2008 18:55:56

Originally by: Arlenna Molatov

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So, what you are saying is...every pilot should skirt the combat/physics engine then? So what will EVE become if every player flys a nano ship? You mean a game where EVERY single pilot flys the same setups and the same ships?

...

because it is SUCH A BIG GAME BREAKING ISSUE!

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lol. Your post assumes that Nanos are better then non nanos in every single way. Had you ever even tried a nanoship you would know that they they would anything but replace other ships if they were more accepted. Nanos are extremely expensive, you lose 1/10th as many but they cost you 10 times as much, deal significantly less damage then their normal equivilent in terms of SP and isk, and have several major vulnerabillities which when exploited render a nanoship completely helpless.

Had you actually had 1st hand experience with a nanoship you would know this. I can fly several minmitar nanoships, but often I find myself flying a hurricane instead just because of the cost involved in losing them. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you'd die very quickly if you ever flown one because you'd think you are invincible which is very far from the truth. Oh and trust me. When it does die you'll be down A LOT of isk. Try and, and you'll find nanos are anything but invincible. I guarentee it.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.

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Originally by: Zephyr Rengate

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Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 26/07/2008 17:50:33

Originally by: MotherMoon

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Originally by: El ConejoBlanco

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Good post. Was looking for a list of things that had been nerfed. Now it seems easier to get a list of things that haven't been nerfed. I just wish I had more of a heads up so I know not to waste my training time and ISK on something that isn't going to work in the future.

A T2 fitted and rigged Vagabond that only does 4k(in a straight line) can be webbed by a 1600 plated rupture that can overheat. So what's the point of nano? Won't be any if you have to spend that kind of money on a pimp ship that loses to a T1 cruiser that costs a quarter less.

Lo sec space will die, again, if this goes through. How do solo pvpers find targets now without getting caught by a FW blob?
Seems like the so-called "sandbox" quality of the Eve playground is being replaced by a concrete one.

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a tech 2 fitted vaga will still go 4000m/s after the nerf.

it won't go 12,000 m/s however.

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How would a t2 fitted vaga go 12000ms even now? (not includeding short burst of overload).

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Originally by: El ConejoBlanco

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Edited by: El ConejoBlanco on 26/07/2008 18:04:22


If CCP was bringing us back to skirmish warfare, or leaving it a viable tactic, then they wouldn't be nerfing speed and shutting off propulsion mods. Can't disengage motoring off at ship speed. It's not a MINOR change. Bringing a billion isk investment down to the price of a T2 MWD is pretty sizable if you ask me.
I wasn't saying that CCP should mirror real life physics at all. I was making a comparison between missile and damage types. All missiles shouldn't be able to hit all targets, and that's exactly what's going to happen if this nerf goes through as stated in the blog. Current game mechanics allow any nano to be countered. Period. You can catch and web or force a disengage. If you are out and get caught by that Vagabond then you deserve to die for not having the situational awareness to realize he was on scan. It takes pilot and trained skills to fly a nano properly, since it's a whole lot more than clicking orbit and going afk until your target is dead, and, it should take pilot and trained skills to catch one. If this nerf goes through the way the blog is laid out, nanos will be dead, because any pilot will be able to catch any nanocruiser in its orbit and pwnface, since with current mechanics any competent pilot that can overheat CAN catch any nanocruiser in its orbit and pwnface.

Also there are a lot of posts about ships shouldn't be nanoed because they weren't designed for it, i.e. Ishtar. Please, then why give us fitting options with hundreds of mods?! Letting someone else dictate what I fit defeats the sandbox concept CCP so adamantly claims this game is. If I want to nano something, and train and pay for it, so be it, regardless of what it gets bonuses to.

Edit: Cleaned up some language.

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Quote:

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well lets see lets get my vaga

3 nanofiber II's
2 overdrive II's
1 10MN MWD II
2 polycarbon rigs

snake set -don't have but I can use eft here

13,000m/s

after nerf it will only go 8,000 m/s

what will we do!!!!!!!!!

didn't count overheating or boosters.

comeon you really think that speed is ok?

p.s. without ****ing the snake set the new speed for the vaga with the same mods will be able to do about 4,500m/s simple tech 2 rig fitted. why can't you deal with only going that fast?

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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well lets see lets get my vaga

3 nanofiber II's
2 overdrive II's
1 10MN MWD II
2 polycarbon rigs

snake set -don't have but I can use eft here

13,000m/s

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Originally by: kryptteacher

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forgive me as im still noob at only 2 mill skill points on my main but here is my 2 isk. just make it where only frigate class vessels can use speed

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Originally by: Raather

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Quote:

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well lets see lets get my vaga

3 nanofiber II's
2 overdrive II's
1 10MN MWD II
2 polycarbon rigs

snake set -don't have but I can use eft here

13,000m/s

after nerf it will only go 8,000 m/s

what will we do!!!!!!!!!

didn't count overheating or boosters.

comeon you really think that speed is ok?

p.s. without ****ing the snake set the new speed for the vaga with the same mods will be able to do about 4,500m/s simple tech 2 rig fitted. why can't you deal with only going that fast?

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Full snake set and 5 speed mods, 'cause thats how everyone fits their Vagas.

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Originally by: Father Weebles

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Originally by: kryptteacher

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forgive me as im still noob at only 2 mill skill points on my main but here is my 2 isk. just make it where only frigate class vessels can use speed

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This is a good way to completely nerf vagabonds.

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Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

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Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

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Originally by: DubanFP

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and 2 heavy nuets or a huginn will make your multi-billion isk ship it go 500 m/s without a tank. Remember tracking hurts the nanoship too you know. Name me a vagabond that can hit anything at that speed.

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Quote:

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ok I'll shoot without snakes it's only 8,000 m/s with leadership bonuses that becomes 11,000m/s


and wait didn't you read my post or the blog the nerf is to super high speed while keeping normal tech 2 speed.

Also to the nuet guy you'll never be locked, you can just fly out of locking range never mind nuet range in 10 seconds.


by the way yes vagas do fit 5 speed mods, duh, that's what makes it an issue.

ok I did some more stuff with the leadership bonus the old vaga with snakes goes 14,900 and then with a boost goes 17,000 and with overheating hits 19,000



yes, the vaga can't hit anything, that's not the point the point is people can go that fast **** people off and make the game engine go into pain. just think of all the lag it causes.


last note before I ignore the forums for today.

even if you neut that ship it will drift about 100 km at 10,000m/s because the mass of the ship is so low it won't stop for a good 45 seconds, that's how broken it is. the physics engine doesn't like it. so great it has no cap, oh wait now it's at 10% oh look it can MWD forever while gaining cap at 10% cap, so it just keeps going even if neuted 100%

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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well lets see lets get my vaga

3 nanofiber II's
2 overdrive II's
1 10MN MWD II
2 polycarbon rigs

snake set -don't have but I can use eft here

13,000m/s

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Originally by: techzer0

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[

Originally by: MotherMoon

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well lets see lets get my vaga

3 nanofiber II's
2 overdrive II's
1 10MN MWD II
2 polycarbon rigs

snake set -don't have but I can use eft here

13,000m/s

---

You will never kill anything solo with that setup MM.

I fit this:

2 or 3 Overdrive II's
2 or 3 Gyrostab II's
10mn MWD II
2 Polycarbons (or poly/aux thrusters if i'm broke)

A few rogue hardwiring implants.

5500 - 6100m/s

Optimal of 2km so fighting at 15-20k my damage is halved due to falloff. And I could never perma-run the MWD or hit anything while MWD'ing full speed. (btw, you should realize my fit is about average for a vaga pilot.)

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Originally by: techzer0

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[

Originally by: MotherMoon

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well lets see lets get my vaga

3 nanofiber II's
2 overdrive II's
1 10MN MWD II
2 polycarbon rigs

snake set -don't have but I can use eft here

13,000m/s

---

You will never kill anything solo with that setup MM.

I fit this:

2 or 3 Overdrive II's
2 or 3 Gyrostab II's
10mn MWD II
2 Polycarbons (or poly/aux thrusters if i'm broke)

A few rogue hardwiring implants.

5500 - 6100m/s

Optimal of 2km so fighting at 15-20k my damage is halved due to falloff. And I could never perma-run the MWD or hit anything while MWD'ing full speed. (btw, you should realize my fit is about average for a vaga pilot.)

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

well I may be a moron by that's why CCP is doing it becuase you can break it thus it must be fixed.

if you don't think hitting 20,000m/s is bad for this game then keep on playing pretending it's not an issue.

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Edited by: DubanFP on 27/07/2008 00:49:15

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

well I may be a moron by that's why CCP is doing it becuase you can break it thus it must be fixed.

if you don't think hitting 20,000m/s is bad for this game then keep on playing pretending it's not an issue.

---

The only people who think nanos are completely broken are the ones who don't know what it's like to fly one. Just because YOU don't know how to kill one doesn't make it invincible. I can't seem to find a single person who says nanos are invincible that's actually flown one before. Sorry EFT *****s, but you can spew numbers all you want. EVE != EFT.

---

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

---

Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

---

Originally by: Upright

---

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

---

Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

---

Im sorry but i hate this argument!

People stating "so drones and missles cant catch a nano HAC"

What drones?! What missles?! Yes your Ogre II's and your Torps shouldnt catch a HAC!

Your warrior II's and ur light precision missle's should.

But to claim that every missle and drone should be able to hit every target out there is more stupid that the way things currently work.

---

Originally by: Zephyr Rengate

---

Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 25/07/2008 22:19:54

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

---

Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

---

Missiles able to hit everything balanced?

---

Originally by: rValdez5987

---

the OP is just mad that his vagabond cant run around like he just picked up the gold star in mario brothers.

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 23:05:04

Originally by: Napro

---

the difference is nano is a broken game mechanic never intended by the devs

---

Jet can mining along with many others was never an intended mechanic either. You're not whining about that are you? These are just things that use the rules the devs gave them to get the desired results. Also look at the "vagabond" and tell me with a strait face that it was never meant to nano.

---

Originally by: rValdez5987

---

the OP is just mad that his vagabond cant run around like he just picked up the gold star in mario brothers anymore.

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

Agreed, ships should be able to outrun missles of a class above the ship. However I believe the vaga and other type fast ships should do even better than this.

However currently many super nano set ups can outrun light persicion missiles.
persicion missiles are made to kill small fast things on a bigger boat at less dps.

but in fact that is missles weakness.

So by lowering normaly fit ships speed by about 10% I don't believe this will change too much.

for for the love of all god, as my last post tonight "HOLD ON GUYS WAIT FOR IT TO BE UP FOR TESTING" if it's terrible on sisi then I'll whine with you. If my nanoed scimitar can still outrun light missiles then I'll see it for what I believe to be anyways,a fix to the sily stupid speeds you can get but not many people use.

NOw as for the MWD change... I'll have to see.

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

moonie is officially ****ED

uugghhh I'm not talking about nanos in combat never mind I suck at writing my point is only that going 20,000 m/s is bad. game balance? who gives a hit the game engine doesn't like it. yes you can kill if you lucky and most ship aren't going to go that fast.

---

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

jezz maybe I'm just having a bad night, or maybe working as a bug tester at nintendo.

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

The sad part is you have no clue how things actually work. Vagabonds don't go 20km/s. 4-6km/s is more normal and even they can't hit anything at full speed. Other nanoships are closer to 2-4km/s. I've said it before and i'll say it again. Saying "Because it shouldn't be this way" is NOT a valid arguement. Go to any serious meeting and tell them "Because" without anything on how it helps/damages a plan/game/cashflow/etc and see what you get in response. Supporting arguements, USE THEM!

---

Originally by: Rawr Cristina

---

Nanos will still be ridicuously fast and, due to the web nerf, even more difficult to kill after this, I don't know what you're complaining about tbh.

But as it is, all combat outside BS fleets revolves around Speed and the Web. In their current state both are overpowered:

Web allows a Turret Battleship to track and kill the smallest ships in EVE (Inties+AFs), thus rendering smaller ships unable to fight in webrange vs larger targets (unless they blob)

Speed in it's current form is only balanced alongside one thing: The Web. You need Speed to dictate range so you, yourself, don't get webbed, as when a hostile blob arrives you sure as hell arn't going to be disengaging anytime soon if you're only going 1/10th that speed.

However, just because they counter each other dosen't mean they're balanced. Assault Frigates in their current state are useless; why? Webber makes them useless. Ships like the Pilgrim don't have a role either because they were designed to fight inside webrange thus speed fits arn't viable, meaning they lose to both Blobs and Nanos.

Don't even get me started on the Deimos; back in RMR it was one of the best roaming ships EVE had to offer, now a heap of junk guarenteed death at the hands of a blob, nanoship and many Tier 2 BCs.

The changes CCP outlined will help make all these ships useful again: Fighting inside Webrange will no longer be suicide, Rapier will no longer be completely overpowered and the MWD is given a big enough disadvantage that ABs might just become a realistic alternative.

The experienced players will adapt. Those who seem to think this is only going to turn EVE into blob-online (it won't) are just going to whine on the forums about how they're going to cancel their subs cause PvP is dead

---

Quote:

---

--experienced players look for the new power in EVE--

FoM: Nano-ships.

---

Originally by: Kalintos Tyl

---

Today best (pvp) races:
1. Gallente

---

Originally by: Rawr Cristina

---

Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 27/07/2008 08:54:05

Originally by: Kalintos Tyl

---

Today best (pvp) races:
1. Gallente

---

...

What?

About the only half-decent ship they have is the Ishtar. Their Recons are terrible. The Deimos+Astarte are borderline useless. Myrm is a joke.

Gallente ships only really shined at Solo PvP, and lets be fair; you don't see much of that these days.

Amarr are better than them in every way. So are Minmatar.

---

Originally by: Ekrid

---

im going to go ahead and kill this idiots mentality with two simple words: damage reduction.

thats right, a ship smaller than the explosion radius receives lower damage, and a ship faster than the explosion velocity receives lower damage.

being able to go fast enough means you mitigate up to 90% or so damage from the larger missiles.

your speed allows you to do this. Why should you be able to outrun precision missiles anyway hmm? isn't that their point, to kill fast ships, but also have lower DPS? maybe you should stfu about things you dont understand, such as missiles and tactics in this game, and game balance itself.

---

Originally by: Gamesguy

---

what frig can tank 100 dps?

---

Originally by: Rawr Cristina

---

(dreadnoughts are also possibly the most boring ship you could fly. It's like mining, without the part where you make money)

---

Originally by: Verx Interis

---

As long as people get this message then nerfs won't be so bad.

If you invest in something that is clearly overpowered, it will be a wasted investment in a short amount of time. Learn this. Train for what you want to fly, not the latest pwnmobile. Pwnmobiles are temporary. Something you want to fly usually isn't

The sooner you understand this, the better you'll be.

---

Originally by: El ConejoBlanco

---

Edited by: El ConejoBlanco on 25/07/2008 23:11:48

Originally by: Ozmodan

---

Not one of your so called nerfs have been bad for the game. Not one.

When a cruiser outruns my interceptor, something is darn wrong. I am glad CCP realizes the problem and is addressing it appropriately. It was obvious to anyone that this was a serious issue that needed addressed.

When you abuse any portion of a game, especially one that is available only to the select group, you can count on it,t hat things will get changed.

Change does not always favor you, but whether it does or not you can always expect you will have to adapt. So I suggest you adapt intead of complaining.

---

What was your inty doing, 2k???????

---

Originally by: Xzar Fyrarr

---

I want to know how the fu## the inties that are getting outran by cruisers are fitted...

---

Originally by: Sheriff Jones

---

I was nerfed once, it was the summer of 1987, her name was Kylie. Lakehouse, flowers blooming, birds singing...bird...huh?

Hmm?

The what now?

Ooooh.

---

Originally by: Avernus

---

One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.

Originally by: Ozmodan

---

Not one of your so called nerfs have been bad for the game. Not one.

When a cruiser outruns my interceptor, something is darn wrong. I am glad CCP realizes the problem and is addressing it appropriately. It was obvious to anyone that this was a serious issue that needed addressed.

---

Originally by: Napro

---

Can I outrun rails or lasers or drones? No.

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Edited by: DubanFP on 27/07/2008 04:47:07

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

moonie is officially ****ED

uugghhh I'm not talking about nanos in combat never mind I suck at writing my point is only that going 20,000 m/s is bad. game balance? who gives a hit the game engine doesn't like it. yes you can kill if you lucky and most ship aren't going to go that fast.

---

The sad part is you have no clue how things actually work. Vagabonds don't go 20km/s. 4-6km/s is more normal and even they can't hit anything at full speed. Other nanoships are closer to 2-4km/s. I've said it before and i'll say it again. Saying "Because it shouldn't be this way" is NOT a valid arguement. Go to any serious meeting and tell them "Because" without anything on how it helps/damages a plan/game/cashflow/etc and see what you get in response. Supporting arguements, USE THEM!

Originally by: MotherMoon

---

jezz maybe I'm just having a bad night, or maybe working as a bug tester at nintendo.

---

And I'm the queen of england.

P.S. Anybody else notice a small army of NPC corp alts posting here on Moon's side? Army of alts posting in rapid sucession FTL.

---

Originally by: Altho Regilian

---

Originally by: Xzar Fyrarr

---

I want to know how the fu## the inties that are getting outran by cruisers are fitted...

---

I've been on the receiving end of some of the ludicrous speed nanovaga's before even when I was in a well fit interceptor trying to outrun it. Here's the setup I had:

Crow

HI: 3x Standard II's (faction loaded)
MID: Gistii B-Type 1MN MWD, Warp Disruptor II, Stasis Web II
LOW: 3x Overdrive II

Rig: 2x Polycarbon I

Average speed: 10.5km/sec

Since I have velocity on my overview, I watched a vaga pilot come after me going about 13km/sec. And for those who ask why I didn't just warp off, I started in a 60km bubble so was working on getting out. By the time I hit the edge of the bubble, he had a warp disruptor on me. Tried to outmaneuver him but he stuck with me. Couple seconds later came the web and then a dead ship. The problem wasn't with my fitting or my tactics, the problem was with a cruiser outrunning me. Yes, I bet that pilot had a full set of snakes, Polycarbon II's, Officer MWD, etc. However that doesn't mean he should be able to travel faster than a very well put together interceptor in his cruiser. I'm fine with a vaga going 4 km/sec. It still means my interceptor has its place. but 13? Give me a break.

---

Originally by: Ekrid

---

Originally by: Zephyr Rengate

---

Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 25/07/2008 22:19:54

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

---

Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

---

Missiles able to hit everything balanced?

---

im going to go ahead and kill this idiots mentality with two simple words: damage reduction.

thats right, a ship smaller than the explosion radius receives lower damage, and a ship faster than the explosion velocity receives lower damage.

being able to go fast enough means you mitigate up to 90% or so damage from the larger missiles.

your speed allows you to do this. Why should you be able to outrun precision missiles anyway hmm? isn't that their point, to kill fast ships, but also have lower DPS? maybe you should stfu about things you dont understand, such as missiles and tactics in this game, and game balance itself.

---

Originally by: Altho Regilian

---

Originally by: Xzar Fyrarr

---

I want to know how the fu## the inties that are getting outran by cruisers are fitted...

---

I've been on the receiving end of some of the ludicrous speed nanovaga's before even when I was in a well fit interceptor trying to outrun it. Here's the setup I had:

Crow

HI: 3x Standard II's (faction loaded)
MID: Gistii B-Type 1MN MWD, Warp Disruptor II, Stasis Web II
LOW: 3x Overdrive II

Rig: 2x Polycarbon I

Average speed: 10.5km/sec

Since I have velocity on my overview, I watched a vaga pilot come after me going about 13km/sec. And for those who ask why I didn't just warp off, I started in a 60km bubble so was working on getting out. By the time I hit the edge of the bubble, he had a warp disruptor on me. Tried to outmaneuver him but he stuck with me. Couple seconds later came the web and then a dead ship. The problem wasn't with my fitting or my tactics, the problem was with a cruiser outrunning me. Yes, I bet that pilot had a full set of snakes, Polycarbon II's, Officer MWD, etc. However that doesn't mean he should be able to travel faster than a very well put together interceptor in his cruiser. I'm fine with a vaga going 4 km/sec. It still means my interceptor has its place. but 13? Give me a break.

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 23:05:04

Originally by: Napro

---

the difference is nano is a broken game mechanic never intended by the devs

---

Jet can mining along with many others was never an intended mechanic either. You're not whining about that are you? These are just things that use the rules the devs gave them to get the desired results. Also look at the "vagabond" and tell me with a strait face that it was never meant to nano.

---

Originally by: Peter Powers

---

- good thing it got balanced
(and if you combine ecm / damps,
or if you use specialised dampending
setups its still a good tactic.)

---

Originally by: Chr0nosX

---

Originally by: Peter Powers

---

- good thing it got balanced
(and if you combine ecm / damps,
or if you use specialised dampending
setups its still a good tactic.)

---

Actually specialised damping ships suck balls.

---

Originally by: Gajowy

---

to all nano whiners- fit heavy neuts, ive never been ganked by nanoship with this onboard

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 22:51:38
I've come up with 2 ways to exploit the new system. Assuming the changes come in exactly as the devs said them.

1) This one has been mentioned before and is not uber-poweful. Afterburning Assault frigates at close range. With the web changes it's as difficult to fight as modern interceptors, but much much more powerful. The only way to kill it is to overpower it with another frigate or gank it. This promotes the blob in addition to removing the solo-capible nanoships, which is bad. The only frigate that can overpower an AF is another AF.

2) This one I won't give away the exact details of. I'm keeping it for myself. It requies a bit of an investment, but it is possible to abuse the new system to amazing effect. If I am correct it will have all the advantages of a modern nanoship while being completely immune to everything nanos fear. With the decrease in modern nanoships it will have even less rivals to deal with.

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 22:17:03

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

---

No i think your lying,because if you were good at ship set ups you wouldnt of jumped on the Nano bandwagon and be here crying about the nerf.

---

Isn't how good you are at a game based on your abillity to use the games rules for maximum effect? It's no different. I can guarentee IF the changes go live I'll be one of the first players looking for loopholes in the new system until that gets whined out. However it doesn't mean I want to see the changes go through. Some people have good reasons for disliking nanos, but how many of you whiners have been in a nanoship and not just facing against them? Most, especially the ones with arguements like yourself, don't know what it's like on the other side. Instead of finding out you whine.

---

Originally by: Gamesguy

---

Now you take a raven, a torp raven deals around 1k dps with torps, the frigate has a signature radius of about 1/10 that of the explosion radius of the torps. But wait, 10% of 1k dps is still 100 dps, what frig can tank 100 dps?

---

Originally by: CHAOS100

---

A double nano-nerf is interesting. Since CCP said they want guerrilla warfare to be viable, what exactly are they planning to do that?

---

Originally by: Beltantis Torrence

---

How many people who play this game have over 20M SP dedicated towards HACs/etc and can burn hundreds of mil on a ship? This is just a 'if you haven't played X number of years your opinion doesn't count' argument. It doesn't take 3 years of experience to know that 'immune vs missiles' probably needs to be adjusted.

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Yes this is a necro, but it is EXTREMELY relevent to recent events. I believe it is importaint to reopen.

---

Originally by: Altho Regilian

---

By the time I hit the edge of the bubble, he had a warp disruptor on me. Tried to outmaneuver him but he stuck with me. Couple seconds later came the web and then a dead ship.

---

Originally by: Graic

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Yes this is a necro, but it is EXTREMELY relevent to recent events. I believe it is importaint to reopen.

---

Let the arguing begin!

Yep - time for another nerf. There's gonna be pro, against and meh.

If so many people were against this game nerf they would simply pull the plug en masse. In current the climate CCP would be backpeddling faster than you could say "frozen assets".

---

Originally by: KhaelaMensha Khaine

---

CCP NEEDS TO FIND THE RIGHT BALANCE BETWEEN FIXING THINGS IN THE GAME WHICH ARE CLEARLY BROKEN WITHOUT KILLING OFF THOSE THINGS WHICH MAKE THE GAME CHALLENGING AND FUN.

---

Originally by: El ConejoBlanco

---

Speedtanking missiles is currently the only way to tank missiles. Take away speed, missiles become invincible. Just because a frig with a reduced sig takes reduced damage from a heavy missile, doesn't mean that it's just brushing off the damage. Never seen anything outrun a precision. If it did, buff the precision, don't nerfbat everyone else.

---

Originally by: Dev Blog

---

If one then takes a look at the max velocity on missiles and drones, it is readily apparent that our combat system was never designed for such speeds. Even when we did some basic tests on our internal servers, with special high-speed missiles, we quickly noticed Destiny (our physics engine) behaving very strangely.

---

Originally by: Zephyr Rengate

---

Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 25/07/2008 22:19:54

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

---

Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

---

Missiles able to hit everything balanced?

---

Originally by: Synapse Archae

---

I'm just laughing at the dogpile of whiners who have no idea what they're talking about. Most, possibly all, of them have probably never flown or fit a real nano ship.

The big loser is Eve Online, that these people can whine and get their way, and gameplay is made less interesting as a result.

---

Originally by: Thargat

---

A nanogang vs a regular gang, if the regular gang isn't complete morons (wich usually seems to be the case these days), is a fair and balanced fight. It all boils down to tactics and thinking a bit outside of the box. Some ppl know this, the rest just whine.

---

Originally by: KhaelaMensha Khaine

---

Edited by: KhaelaMensha Khaine on 10/10/2008 02:35:59
(Continued from previous post)

In summary, nanoships provided a counter to being 'blobbed to death' thereby restoring the ability to roam in small gangs and perform guerilla style 'hit and run' pvp

Which brings us to the central issue concerning the proposed speed changes...

ANY PROPOSED NERFS TO NANOSHIPS MUST NOT KILL OFF ROAMING.

If this happens then an important, fun, part of EvE which keeps a lot of older, more experienced players interested in the game will be lost.

Don't forget that eventually, every new player will become one of these older, richer, veterans so while you might not care about this right now, you will one day, if you stick with the game long enough.

CCP NEEDS TO FIND THE RIGHT BALANCE BETWEEN FIXING THINGS IN THE GAME WHICH ARE CLEARLY BROKEN WITHOUT KILLING OFF THOSE THINGS WHICH MAKE THE GAME CHALLENGING AND FUN.

Anyone who has participated in a 0.0 fleet fight in the last few years knows exactly what I mean when I say that the 0.0 space holding game has been "broken" for some time and is in bad need of a fix.

God forbid that the same thing happens to roaming!

---

Originally by: TZeer

---

Originally by: Zephyr Rengate

---

Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 25/07/2008 22:19:54

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

---

Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

---

Missiles able to hit everything balanced?

---

Heard about explotion velocity and explosion radius?

Guns hit all the time to, same as missiles, but you get something like:

"guns barely hit target, doing 1 damage"

"cruise missile hit x target, doing 0.3 damage"

same with heavy missiles, torps, HAMS etc

---

Originally by: KhaelaMensha Khaine

---

In summary, nanoships provided a counter to being 'blobbed to death' thereby restoring the ability to roam in small gangs and perform guerilla style 'hit and run' pvp

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Edited by: DubanFP on 10/10/2008 13:29:26

Originally by: KhaelaMensha Khaine

---

In summary, nanoships provided a counter to being 'blobbed to death' thereby restoring the ability to roam in small gangs and perform guerilla style 'hit and run' pvp

---

Agreed

---

Originally by: justsometrader

---

much text

much whine

much fail

---

Originally by: Cybele Lanier

---

With nanoships apparently doing no damage and being so easy to counter, it makes you wonder exactly why they're so popular and why people are prepared to spend so much on them.

---

Originally by: KhaelaMensha Khaine

---

Edited by: KhaelaMensha Khaine on 10/10/2008 02:35:59
(Continued from previous post)

In summary, nanoships provided a counter to being 'blobbed to death' thereby restoring the ability to roam in small gangs and perform guerilla style 'hit and run' pvp

Which brings us to the central issue concerning the proposed speed changes...

ANY PROPOSED NERFS TO NANOSHIPS MUST NOT KILL OFF ROAMING.

If this happens then an important, fun, part of EvE which keeps a lot of older, more experienced players interested in the game will be lost.

Don't forget that eventually, every new player will become one of these older, richer, veterans so while you might not care about this right now, you will one day, if you stick with the game long enough.

CCP NEEDS TO FIND THE RIGHT BALANCE BETWEEN FIXING THINGS IN THE GAME WHICH ARE CLEARLY BROKEN WITHOUT KILLING OFF THOSE THINGS WHICH MAKE THE GAME CHALLENGING AND FUN.

Anyone who has participated in a 0.0 fleet fight in the last few years knows exactly what I mean when I say that the 0.0 space holding game has been "broken" for some time and is in bad need of a fix.

God forbid that the same thing happens to roaming!

---

Originally by: Xeronn

---

IMHO the issue isnt about missilez, transversals,drones, the big picture is about the mechanics behind forcing engagements and/or disengaging . I don`t claim to know what a "good" balance would be , but imho , when a certain type of fit/style can allways decide the engagement and/or disengagement things need adjusted

just my .02 isk

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

Originally by: Xeronn

---

IMHO the issue isnt about missilez, transversals,drones, the big picture is about the mechanics behind forcing engagements and/or disengaging . I don`t claim to know what a "good" balance would be , but imho , when a certain type of fit/style can allways decide the engagement and/or disengagement things need adjusted

just my .02 isk

---

This is a very good post although it's difficult to figure out your opinion on the sugested nano nerfs.

---

Originally by: Armoured C

---

i dont get why your guys are arguing, it going on like nano have been here forever,


it sound like the only way to PVP is with nano's what did people do before they discovered they could make there cruiser go a bergillion KM a second

i am neither for or against nano but people need to stop talking like it is the end of PVP because they are getting nerfed. there was pvp before this happened you know

---

Originally by: Maglorre

---

Originally by: El ConejoBlanco

---

Speedtanking missiles is currently the only way to tank missiles. Take away speed, missiles become invincible. Just because a frig with a reduced sig takes reduced damage from a heavy missile, doesn't mean that it's just brushing off the damage. Never seen anything outrun a precision. If it did, buff the precision, don't nerfbat everyone else.

---

And there you have it. Did you even read the dev blog about this issue? Here, I will quote a bit of it for you...

Originally by: Dev Blog

---

If one then takes a look at the max velocity on missiles and drones, it is readily apparent that our combat system was never designed for such speeds. Even when we did some basic tests on our internal servers, with special high-speed missiles, we quickly noticed Destiny (our physics engine) behaving very strangely.

---

---

Originally by: Lexx Phoebus

---

Originally by: Armoured C

---

i dont get why your guys are arguing, it going on like nano have been here forever,


it sound like the only way to PVP is with nano's what did people do before they discovered they could make there cruiser go a bergillion KM a second

i am neither for or against nano but people need to stop talking like it is the end of PVP because they are getting nerfed. there was pvp before this happened you know

---

Your right there was pvp before nanos, but nanos evolved as a neccesity rather than a preference becuase of the previlence of blob warefare; thus you now NEED the mobility of nanos to roam effectively outnumbered.

---

Originally by: Armoured C

---

Originally by: Lexx Phoebus

---

Originally by: Armoured C

---

i dont get why your guys are arguing, it going on like nano have been here forever,


it sound like the only way to PVP is with nano's what did people do before they discovered they could make there cruiser go a bergillion KM a second

i am neither for or against nano but people need to stop talking like it is the end of PVP because they are getting nerfed. there was pvp before this happened you know

---

Your right there was pvp before nanos, but nanos evolved as a neccesity rather than a preference becuase of the previlence of blob warefare; thus you now NEED the mobility of nanos to roam effectively outnumbered.

---

i forgot about the blob

---

Originally by: OVERCOPES 1

---

Edited by: OVERCOPES 1 on 25/07/2008 21:58:50
Fail.

So a cruiser out running missiles is balanced.Hmmmmmm

---

Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn

---

Of course, it's paper-scissor-rock. If you nerf paper, then play rock.

You forgot omnitank btw.

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Originally by: Altho Regilian

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Originally by: Xzar Fyrarr

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I want to know how the fu## the inties that are getting outran by cruisers are fitted...

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I've been on the receiving end of some of the ludicrous speed nanovaga's before even when I was in a well fit interceptor trying to outrun it. Here's the setup I had:

Crow

HI: 3x Standard II's (faction loaded)
MID: Gistii B-Type 1MN MWD, Warp Disruptor II, Stasis Web II
LOW: 3x Overdrive II

Rig: 2x Polycarbon I

Average speed: 10.5km/sec

Since I have velocity on my overview, I watched a vaga pilot come after me going about 13km/sec. And for those who ask why I didn't just warp off, I started in a 60km bubble so was working on getting out. By the time I hit the edge of the bubble, he had a warp disruptor on me. Tried to outmaneuver him but he stuck with me. Couple seconds later came the web and then a dead ship. The problem wasn't with my fitting or my tactics, the problem was with a cruiser outrunning me. Yes, I bet that pilot had a full set of snakes, Polycarbon II's, Officer MWD, etc. However that doesn't mean he should be able to travel faster than a very well put together interceptor in his cruiser. I'm fine with a vaga going 4 km/sec. It still means my interceptor has its place. but 13? Give me a break.

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Quote:

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watched a vaga pilot come after me going about 13km/sec

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Originally by: DubanFP

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Edited by: DubanFP on 25/07/2008 23:05:04

Originally by: Napro

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the difference is nano is a broken game mechanic never intended by the devs

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Jet can mining along with many others was never an intended mechanic either. You're not whining about that are you? These are just things that use the rules the devs gave them to get the desired results. Also look at the "vagabond" and tell me with a strait face that it was never meant to nano.

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Originally by: Mistress Frome

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You let a vaga approach you with 0 transversal.

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Originally by: Mistress Frome

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Got webbed by a vaga that sucks. But you have your own web at your disposal + overheating mwd/web. Unless he had a faction web or something which is just shitty luck for you tbh.

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Originally by: Trojanman190

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I admit I didnt read through all of the posts but it seems to be that people are getting used to nanoers and are learning how to effectively combat them. The mega rediculous speed is an issue and so is the immunity to missiles, but overall this is an extremely important style of gameplay now that eve has grown so much. Active tanking just isn't good enough against 20+ enemies and, as the op said, there aren't really any viable alternatives.

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