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Erok Starbringer	Posted - 2008.07.30 03:14:00 - [121] I am a Dedicated Falcon pilot I have Recon trained to 4 only and all the jamming related skills to 4 or 5, My current setup gives me 212km optimal with 37km falloff and 12.2 jam strength (all I use is 6 Racials and a Sensor booster with range script in mids). I have done both small gang and fleet pvp in it and can tell you without hesitation it is not as overpowered as you might think- It dies very quick. Took an Ishtar secs to tear through me with drones the other day(even though I had him Jammed) the min I decloaked to join the fight. Can't recloak when the drones lock you, I warped away with 37% structure and it was dumb luck I lived. It does not perma jam BS which can insta pop you, nor can it perma jam BC or Cruisers in actual small gang pvp when your running around systems you can't always get to 200km, usually your at a little over 100km if you need to engage quick. Anyone who thinks Falcons are overpowered should try them in combat first, they are a death trap, and all the ships that can kill you can't be perma jammed. So what you can perma Jam frigates (save the drone users and FoF missile boats) After 3mil sps in electronics damnit I should be able to perma jam frigates... ohh and HAHAHAHA on your Nano invincability getting shut down. BTW if some IS perma jamming you in a Falcon it's because they fitted there ship to perma jam your Races specific ships (by fitting SEVERAL Race Specific mods), AND you didn't fit a counter- Paper Rock Scissors bro
Xiaodown XERCORE	Posted - 2008.07.30 03:31:00 - [122] Originally by: Erok Starbringer I am a Dedicated Falcon pilot I have Recon trained to 4 only and all the jamming related skills to 4 or 5, My current setup gives me 212km optimal with 37km falloff and 12.2 jam strength (all I use is 6 Racials and a Sensor booster with range script in mids). I have done both small gang and fleet pvp in it and can tell you without hesitation it is not as overpowered as you might think- It dies very quick. Took an Ishtar secs to tear through me with drones the other day(even though I had him Jammed) the min I decloaked to join the fight. Can't recloak when the drones lock you, I warped away with 37% structure and it was dumb luck I lived. It does not perma jam BS which can insta pop you, nor can it perma jam BC or Cruisers in actual small gang pvp when your running around systems you can't always get to 200km, usually your at a little over 100km if you need to engage quick. Anyone who thinks Falcons are overpowered should try them in combat first, they are a death trap, and all the ships that can kill you can't be perma jammed. So what you can perma Jam frigates (save the drone users and FoF missile boats) After 3mil sps in electronics damnit I should be able to perma jam frigates... ohh and HAHAHAHA on your Nano invincability getting shut down. BTW if some IS perma jamming you in a Falcon it's because they fitted there ship to perma jam your Races specific ships (by fitting SEVERAL Race Specific mods), AND you didn't fit a counter- Paper Rock Scissors bro If you're a dedicated falcon pilot with only Recon Ships IV, Signal Dispersion IV, Long Distance Jamming IV, and Long Range Targeting IV, you're not a dedicated falcon pilot. As to your other point, how on earth did the ishtar get to you? You should have warped out while you were still cloaked, and warped to a gang member at 100km, then uncloaked and started jamming. If you didn't do this, you are not a dedicated falcon pilot with any sense. If you did this, and the ishtar pilot still got to you, how did he get out 100-150KM to get you? Nano-Ishtar? Yeah, that option is about to dissapear. When the rest of us can't MWD out to you at 8km/sec anymore, and are stuck at 2km/sec max, you're never going to die, ever, unless you're stupid or jump into a bubble. Another of your points, re: "It does not perma jam BS which can insta pop you". If you're in small gang PVP, you should always be 100km away from the action in a falcon. You can warp cloaked, so there's NO excuse for you not warping out and warping back in to your gangmates at range. Small gang PVP means your BS opponents are going to be close-range fit, and cannot hit you at 100+km away. The problem with the falcon is that there's no effective counter to it's range except small, fast ships, which are going away with the next nerf. No other recon ship requires you to fit "anti-ewar modules" to combat it, but you say to counter the falcon, fit ECCM. No other recon ship can do anything that can shut down your ship's ability to fight at more than 30 or so KM (tracking disruptors and NOS, i guess, but even then, you can still fight depending on what you're in). You should not have to look at your ship fit, and go "Oh, and I need the anti-falcon module" and stick an ECCM on it, just like you don't look at it and say "Oh, i need the anti-damp module", or the "anti-tracking disrupt module", or (heavens forbid) the "anti-target painter module". The falcon is overpowered compared to other ships in its class, and has no effective balanced counter. Your only counter argument to this is "if you get close to it, it dies LOLOL". I'm trying to tell you that only idiot falcon pilots let people get close to them, and that the only effective way of getting close - nano ships - is about to go away. Also, I am not a bro. ~X -- Sig under construction.
Traidor Disloyal NightCrew	Posted - 2008.07.30 03:43:00 - [123] You people whine a lot. Wah Wah Wah....Mommy the bad Falcon man is touching me! It must be those Nano people whining about ECM. They got to hit something in their moment of disaster. Don't you worry your little head there Borat, Mommy will make the bad Falcon man load up scripts. I'm sure it's a comming. Now you just go back into your little corner where it's nice and safe and play your little internet space ship game. They are so cute at that age. --------------------------------------------- Love is having a second account with a cov ops pilot
Lurana Lay Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.30 06:29:00 - [124] Edited by: Lurana Lay on 30/07/2008 06:32:43 Quote: You people whine a lot. Wah Wah Wah....Mommy the bad Falcon man is touching me! lol Yeah they are on about Falcons, Missiles, Defenders, passive tanking Drakes and all things Caldari. It horrifies them to think that the so-called lolCaldari PvE n00b race will rise a notch on the list. In short: "LRN2PL4Y n00b, haha adapt!, oh sh*t!, We got nerfed! Nerf someone else!! Waaaa!" F'in hilarious.
Mahke Carrion Crows	Posted - 2008.07.30 06:35:00 - [125] Originally by: ZigZag Joe falcon needs to go back to 10% strength bonus (as opposed to scorps 15% and rooks 20%) /thread Or maybe 15%, to see what happens, and then 10% if thats insufficient. Maybe we'll even see people flying rooks again.
Big Al Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure	Posted - 2008.07.30 07:42:00 - [126] Nerf shooting
AlexeiShtukov	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:16:00 - [127] IÆm a dedicated falcon pilot and hate the ship. [itÆs a primary magnet], but what I noticed is that so called hard core PVPers prefer to fit a sensor booster rather than ECCM and than complain that they donÆt have mid slot to spareà I know what you will say ôI want to be able to lock fasterö à wha whaà I donÆt see anyone complaining about nerfing EM damage because you donÆt have room for EM hardnerà So all those who complain drop your sensor booster for ECCM. [after all you are there to fight, so locking speed should not be an issue assuming the other side does not run, and in that case you won anyways]
Donna Maria Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:17:00 - [128] DIE Nerf Monkeys Im the girl momma warned you about..
Crellion Art of War	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:36:00 - [129] The Falcon comes pre nerfed. I haave the skills to fly one since the first month they made them and I never even tried one. A ship that exists to decloak and jamm and then recloak is only conceivable as a dedicated alt char for multiple monitor weilders... it does not interest me the least and i ll never use one whether you nerf it or not. If you took ECM and ECCM out of the gaame altogether I couldnt care less. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:37:00 - [130] Ok, so Nano down, what's next up, I'm predicting: ECM, RR Battleships, but what's next after that? :o

General Paul League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:38:00 - [131] Originally by: Xiaodown The problem with the falcon is that there's no effective counter to it's range except small, fast ships, which are going away with the next nerf. No other recon ship requires you to fit "anti-ewar modules" to combat it, but you say to counter the falcon, fit ECCM. No other recon ship can do anything that can shut down your ship's ability to fight at more than 30 or so KM (tracking disruptors and NOS, i guess, but even then, you can still fight depending on what you're in). You should not have to look at your ship fit, and go "Oh, and I need the anti-falcon module" and stick an ECCM on it, just like you don't look at it and say "Oh, i need the anti-damp module", or the "anti-tracking disrupt module", or (heavens forbid) the "anti-target painter module". Most pvp ships fit a sensor booster which is a counter to sensor damps. Practically all sniper fit HAC or Battleships fit a tracking computer which when scripted can counter a tracking disrupter. The minmitaar Titan counters the Target Painter module I think (- to sig rad)as well as a gang mod <Evasive manouvers> Falcons coming through a gate are vulnerable so saying a falcon well setup and prepared for you is a moot point. Dont let them dictate the battlefield. Im not sure why people are saying falcon has no or few counters when it clearly has a list as long as my arm. 1. Snipe ships 2. ECCM fitted ships 3. Fast Ships 4. E/War ships 5. Planning (a Falcon 20KM from a gate is suprisingly fragile) The only real point in this thread is that we need a module to reduce signature radius that isnt a titan or a gang mod (maybe a new use for the nanofiber or a similar low slot mod) Other than that the Falcon is a weak single role ship that performs well at its chosen task, it cant tackle or do dps so it is balanced.
Ynos Fukse	Posted - 2008.07.30 09:51:00 - [132] Edited by: Ynos Fukse on 30/07/2008 09:55:13 Originally by: Borat Sangdiev There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it. DO YOU F&*^ THINK ccp will nerf a ship cose u say so???? what inssolence!!! "There should be no ship.." >>> IN WHAT GAME?? cose in EVE we have!!! YOU DONT LIKE THE GAME? dont play it! or dont make stupid topiks anymore..
Miss Rumpelstilzchen Minmatar Black Horizon Ltd	Posted - 2008.07.30 10:39:00 - [133] well lets see why the falcon are overpowerd... with the coming nano nerf, no ship is able to get in fast to kill it (ceptors have to less dmg, insta jamm form the falcon) the normal falcon pilot are aound 150-200km off the Gate/station/Pos or what ever... a non rig Ceptor gos around 4-5km/s, if he gets close to the falcon someone can warp to him, but realy .. if this happend the falcon warps off and come back on a other location. the only think thats dangerous to the falcon are sniper BS, and this things are normaly only in fleet/pos fights. so form my point of view the Falcon are nerly untouchabel, they is no real counter exept a other falcon, the sig radius are to small for the BS weapons (falcon sig radius 180m(200 with a LSE), BS weapon sig radius 400m) and realy .. what ship is able to use his mainweapons form 150-200km (BS exluded)
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.30 11:19:00 - [134] Originally by: Miss Rumpelstilzchen well lets see why the falcon are overpowerd... with the coming nano nerf, no ship is able to get in fast to kill it (ceptors have to less dmg, insta jamm form the falcon) A cerberus can sling a heavy missile further than a falcon can jam. An Eagle can reach out and touch it. Battleships can murder it, an Arazu can damp it (throw on rigs and you reach over 150km in falloff with dampners. If you REALLY want to go crazy there are implants for this purpose too). Ceptors can close with it at which point you can warp your other hac's or cruisers to it to murder it. 6.5k EHP and little mobility isn't all that hard to overcome.
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.30 11:52:00 - [135] Boost BLOBS Problem solved ^^ Boost hotdropping caps too ^^
Venec Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN	Posted - 2008.07.30 12:22:00 - [136] Jesus christ, these forums should be shut down, except bug and development subsections. And even then you should past mensa test to apply.
Munio Veritas	Posted - 2008.07.30 12:29:00 - [137] On "gimping your setup with ECCM modules," why do you fit armor/shield hardeners? Because you think you'll meet a foe which dishes out the type of damage that you are hardening to. If you think you will face falcons with ECCM modules, take off something(s) from your medium slot and slap an ECCM module or two on there. It's really not all that hard, just use your brain.
Uzuki Shootmenow	Posted - 2008.07.30 12:39:00 - [138] yes, you ****ing idiots, just nerf everything.
Bad Borris 20th Legion Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.07.30 12:40:00 - [139] IF the recent patch gets onto sisi the falcon will need to be looked at. As it stands now it is very very strong but OK since falcons dont have the opportunity to jam at 150k as often as people might think. The falcon needs to be balanced very carefully or nobody will fly it. People dont fly the scorp often because it is primaried constantly and actually the scorpion is the best anti-falcon weapon there is since it can comfortably give over a couple of slots for eccm modules (which the falcon cannot so easily do) and jam the falcons - and eccm DOES work.
Xiaodown XERCORE	Posted - 2008.07.30 13:41:00 - [140] Originally by: General Paul 1. Snipe ships 2. ECCM fitted ships 3. Fast Ships 4. E/War ships 5. Planning (a Falcon 20KM from a gate is suprisingly fragile) 1. Snipe ships Not in small gang PVP. 2. ECCM fitted ships I'll give you this, even if it does effectively waste a slot. Oh, by the way, "most pvpers" don't fit a sensor booster. I'd say 1/4 of small gang pvpers do, at best. Sensor boosters are for sniper fleets and killmail ****s. 3. Fast Ships These are going away with the nano nerf. 4. E/War ships Also known as "the best counter to a falcon is to bring a falcon of your own". And yet, i'd bet a lot of people who are saying that the falcon is fine are the same people who were furious when people told them "to counter nano, bring more nano". 5. Planning (a Falcon 20KM from a gate is suprisingly fragile) also known as either "dumb falcon pilots" or "luck". If a falcon jumps into a bubble, it's toast. Otherwise, it should always* be cloaked, and at the first sign of trouble, warp to a planet and back to a gang mate at 100km. If you catch a falcon 20km out, either you had a covops scout, or he jumped into your bubble, or he's a tard. -- Sig under construction.

Calypso's Wrath Caldari Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.07.30 14:02:00 - [141] Let me put my 2 cents in: 1. Snipe ships Not in small gang PVP. (Just wait, its about to become FOTM.) 2. ECCM fitted ships I'll give you this, even if it does effectively waste a slot. Oh, by the way, "most pvpers" don't fit a sensor booster. I'd say 1/4 of small gang pvpers do, at best. Sensor boosters are for sniper fleets and killmail ***s. (How is it a wasted slot if it allows you to target) 3. Fast Ships These are going away with the nano nerf. (Inties will still go ~5k/sec and you can warp to the inty cause the falcon is 200k away.. I don't see an issue.) 4. E/War ships Also known as "the best counter to a falcon is to bring a falcon of your own". And yet, i'd bet a lot of people who are saying that the falcon is fine are the same people who were furious when people told them "to counter nano, bring more nano". (Better counter would be damp the falcon so he can't effectivly function at 200k - This means he has to get in range to help his buddies*) 5. Planning (a Falcon 20KM from a gate is suprisingly fragile) also known as either "dumb falcon pilots" or "luck". If a falcon jumps into a bubble, it's toast. Otherwise, it should always* be cloaked, and at the first sign of trouble, warp to a planet and back to a gang mate at 100km. If you catch a falcon 20km out, either you had a covops scout, or he jumped into your bubble, or he's a tard. (Cov-ops alt scan time is pretty damn quick you can get someone on a falcon ~30sec. Plus getting a falcon killmail is very tasty.) Think before you call for a nerf. I say: Boost ECCM. Boost damps on bonused ships. Boost the (*&$#ing Nodes so they can handle 50 on 50s at the drop of a dime. Fix Minmatar BS Fix Black ops BS
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.07.30 15:09:00 - [142] Originally by: Ynos Fukse Edited by: Ynos Fukse on 30/07/2008 09:55:13 Originally by: Borat Sangdiev There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it. DO YOU F&*^ THINK ccp will nerf a ship cose u say so???? what inssolence!!! "There should be no ship.." >>> IN WHAT GAME?? cose in EVE we have!!! YOU DONT LIKE THE GAME? dont play it! or dont make stupid topiks anymore.. Nope. But CCP DOES nerf ships when enough people whine about it on the forums as proven by the nano nerf.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.30 15:27:00 - [143] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 30/07/2008 15:27:38 Originally by: Ignatious Mei Nope. But CCP DOES nerf ships when enough people whine about it on the forums as proven by the nano nerf. Wow great logic. "THE WHINE HAS TAKEN MY PRECIOUS 8XHEATSINK GEDDON FROM ME, BUUUU" Just because people whine about something doesn't mean it is not justified. On topic: All cloaking recons need a nerf. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.07.30 16:32:00 - [144] Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 30/07/2008 16:33:03 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 30/07/2008 15:27:38 Originally by: Ignatious Mei Nope. But CCP DOES nerf ships when enough people whine about it on the forums as proven by the nano nerf. Wow great logic. "THE WHINE HAS TAKEN MY PRECIOUS 8XHEATSINK GEDDON FROM ME, BUUUU" Just because people whine about something doesn't mean it is not justified. On topic: All cloaking recons need a nerf. Not exactly sure what youw ere trying to say with the first part of that post but I agree on the second. buff recons.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.30 16:40:00 - [145] Originally by: ZigZag Joe falcon needs to go back to 10% strength bonus (as opposed to scorps 15% and rooks 20%) /thread No it doesn't thread/
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.30 16:47:00 - [146] Originally by: Ignatious Mei Not exactly sure what youw ere trying to say with the first part of that post but I totally dont understand the second. You think ALL cloaking recons need a nerf??? If you think the arazu is overpowered I have to seriously question you sanity. My point is: There is no good reason not to pick the cloaking version. The force recons obsolete the combat recons. That is a problem beside the fact of other balance issues. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.30 16:49:00 - [147] Originally by: Ignatious Mei Originally by: Ademaro Imre Quote: Currently weÆve got a number of different systems that affect speed that arenÆt stacking nerfed towards each other, resulting in phenomenal speed that in turn results in near invulnerability. At the office we refer to this as ôludicrous speedö. I wasnt saying you were wrong, I was saying that I was also correct. You were also promising that you'd "never say another word about falcons" if damp range was increased to 150Km. And I posted that 150Km+ is already achievable on TQ right now. What about your promise? Just to remind you: Originally by: Ignatious Mei Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons. T2 Damps can reach out to [Optimal = 30Km 1.5 1.2 1.17] + [Falloff = 60Km 1.5] = 153.18Km on TQ right now I'll break that down for you: Long Range Jamming 5 = +50% optimal Frequency Modulation 5 = +50% falloff Particle Dispersion Projector x2 = +20% optimal them +17% optimal (stacking penalty). Now I hold you to your promise to "shut up and never say another word about falcons". CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.30 16:51:00 - [148] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Ignatious Mei Not exactly sure what youw ere trying to say with the first part of that post but I totally dont understand the second. You think ALL cloaking recons need a nerf??? If you think the arazu is overpowered I have to seriously question you sanity. My point is: There is no good reason not to pick the cloaking version. The force recons obsolete the combat recons. That is a problem beside the fact of other balance issues. ITT: Pilgrim is better than Curse! Oh wait, it's not! It's failboat extreme! And let's ll remind ourselves why that is? Because it didn't get it's range bonus. Hey, my IronymeterÖ just melted. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.30 16:53:00 - [149] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 30/07/2008 17:05:17 Originally by: Malcanis ITT: Pilgrim is better than Curse! Oh wait, it's not! It's failboat extreme! And let's ll remind ourselves why that is? Because it didn't get it's range bonus. Hey, my IronymeterÖ just melted. i fail at reading irony. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.30 17:03:00 - [150] Edited by: Stab Wounds on 30/07/2008 17:03:48 yep nerf it



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