Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

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Originally by: Cahpimon

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so, what do you want it to be able to do?
sit there and look cool?

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Originally by: Sidewayzracer

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

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no such thing as perma jamming only you being a completly unlucky tit

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Sidewayzracer

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

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no such thing as perma jamming only you being a completly unlucky tit

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nope, nerf it.

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Originally by: Sidewayzracer

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

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no such thing as perma jamming only you being a completly unlucky tit

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Originally by: Sidewayzracer

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Sidewayzracer

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

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no such thing as perma jamming only you being a completly unlucky tit

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nope, nerf it.

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K

NO U

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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Originally by: Aneu Angellus

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They are called ECCM Modules... USE THEM

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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its obvious its been a FotM ship for some time. the condom of pvp. nerf it.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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We are pleased to aim!

Or was that the other way around?

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Originally by: SereneSally

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Originally by: Aneu Angellus

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They are called ECCM Modules... USE THEM

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Oh stop - no one really fits ECCM mods as a general setup

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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We are pleased to aim!

Or was that the other way around?

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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its obvious its been a FotM ship for some time. the condom of pvp. nerf it.

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Originally by: Nyakk Tradetard

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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its obvious its been a FotM ship for some time. the condom of pvp. nerf it.

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you say it like it would be a bad thing.




oh and since you took so much effort for this thread.

NO U!!!

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Originally by: baltec1

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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its obvious its been a FotM ship for some time. the condom of pvp. nerf it.

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I jammed and scrammed an assault ship in my badger II and watched it die screaming in fustration. Should badger IIs be nerfed too?

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Originally by: Reem Fairchild

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Stop whining about every ship that can actually effectively do the very exact thing it is meant to do.

By the way, the Rook has had the same exact jamming strength that the Falcon has now all along, inbetween the ECM nerf in late 2006 and the Falcon boost in Trinity. And yet no one whined about it.

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Originally by: SereneSally

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Originally by: Aneu Angellus

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They are called ECCM Modules... USE THEM

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Oh stop - no one really fits ECCM mods as a general setup

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Originally by: Reem Fairchild

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Originally by: SereneSally

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Originally by: Aneu Angellus

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They are called ECCM Modules... USE THEM

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Oh stop - no one really fits ECCM mods as a general setup

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Perhaps they should.

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Originally by: Derek Sigres

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Originally by: SereneSally

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Originally by: Aneu Angellus

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They are called ECCM Modules... USE THEM

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Oh stop - no one really fits ECCM mods as a general setup

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Slow down there skippy - you have a module that protects you pretty damn well (juuust shy of -50% chance to jam per jammer) and you STILL complain?

Fair enough - throw out the ECCM module altogether and make it a Sensor Booster Script. Problem sovled. If you can't find room for a Sensor Booster you clearly don't care about your EWAR resistance.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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After these changes, the range of the falcon might need to be looked at. I don't think its overall jamming strength is overpowered to be honest.

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

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Edited by: Zukira Al''Kalish on 29/07/2008 15:00:03
The frequency of these complaints is just growing and growing right now because we have an influx of 14 - 17 year olds getting into the game.

Here's some news folks. A Falcon couldn't do enough DPS to peel the paint off the side of a barn. Sure they can jam you, but then what are they goign to do? They cant' even crack a half decent tank. Sounds pretty effing scary.

But there's this really crazy method for dealing with being jammed. Ever heard of FoF Missiles? Gee... seems to me you don't need a target lock to use those.

What is it the falcon does again? Oh... right... it disrupts your target lock. Well, gee... it would seem to me that there's a simple method of negating the effects of the Falcon.

Then there are the obvious ECCM modules... which you really should be fitting when you know/suspect you're goign to be comming across some evil b@st@rd with ECM.

If you think about the fact that fitting a good rack of ECM on the Falcon ensures that the ship may as well be made of paper mache. You're GUARANTEED to be fighting a glass boat if it's a falcon with ECM. FoF FTW.

In closing... OP needs to learn to rig their ship. If they can't wrap their mind around that, they should ask their mommy to stop paying for a big kids' game for them... maybe stick to something more their level... like colouring books.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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you say it like they should be able to jam a single hac 100% of the time. they shouldnt be able to even get close to permajamming even a single ship. 60% of the time is fair. Nerf falcons/ECM.

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Originally by: Callib Gor'Karrithe

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Unfortunately, nanos were a problem resulting from the introduction of an additional modification for ships known as the Polycarbon Engine Housing.

Do your research kiddo.

The difference being counters for ECM as well as ECM have existed since the inception of the game. Learn to use the equipment that is out there, or go back to playing world of warcrack, kiddo.

This game is for people who can use their brains, not little kids who want to cry and whine. Throwing temper tantrums only works to get you what you want from mommy.... not from CCP.

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Originally by: Callib Gor'Karrithe

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Unfortunately, nanos were a problem resulting from the introduction of an additional modification for ships known as the Polycarbon Engine Housing.

Do your research kiddo.

The difference being counters for ECM as well as ECM have existed since the inception of the game. Learn to use the equipment that is out there, or go back to playing world of warcrack, kiddo.

This game is for people who can use their brains, not little kids who want to cry and whine. Throwing temper tantrums only works to get you what you want from mommy.... not from CCP.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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you say it like they should be able to jam a single hac 100% of the time. they shouldnt be able to even get close to permajamming even a single ship. 60% of the time is fair. Nerf falcons/ECM.

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You're a troll or a fool. Either that or this is a masked nano-whine. I don't know which and a don't really care.

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Originally by: Broegitte Bardot

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range is the problem. it is totally possible to participate in long-range fleet fights in that thing, well beyond BS snipe range. that's a job for the scorpion, not some ship with a covert ops cloak. 220+ km w/ racial jammers can be considered invulnerable, with a speed nerf as is being tested right now even more so.

but i could live with similar optimal bonuses for painters, dampeners and tracking disruptors.

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Originally by: Trojanman190

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Why do people keep remaking these threads?

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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Oh whatever you must be the 1% of eve who firstly counters ECM cos you just would not normally, secondly there are a few thousand agree with what i say, and yes falcons can permajam - FACT!

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Cahpimon

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so, what do you want it to be able to do?
sit there and look cool?

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go back to the way it used to be, so it has a greater chance to miss a cycle.

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Originally by: Ignatious Mei

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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You are correct. They can perma jam 3-4 ships 80 percent of the time though. And theres the problem. I said in the other post that we were arguing about (That you didn't refute by the way) That the thing you seem to be forgetting with the chance based is this. Even though you may not hit every jam cycle on every ship you hit a hell of a lot more then you miss. Your not taking into consideration that even if you miss a jam cycle the cycle time is fast enough that by the time the person you are jamming actually gets their target locked again and their guns back on your cycle time is just about up. So they may get off a salvo and then they are jammed again.

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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you say it like they should be able to jam a single hac 100% of the time. they shouldnt be able to even get close to permajamming even a single ship. 60% of the time is fair. Nerf falcons/ECM.

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You're a troll or a fool. Either that or this is a masked nano-whine. I don't know which and a don't really care.

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Here's your chance, you internet legend. Tell us why your ship should be able to take away another ship's ability to fight back, close to 100% of the time?

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Originally by: Xiaodown

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Cahpimon

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so, what do you want it to be able to do?
sit there and look cool?

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go back to the way it used to be, so it has a greater chance to miss a cycle.

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This, This, a THOUSAND TIMES This!

Bumping the bonus on the falcon from 10% to 20% has had a hugely detrimental effect to warfare, especially considering that it's made the rook a worthless ship (whereas the rook used to be on top of its game, who would fly it now? it can't fly cloaked!).

Put it back to 10%!

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Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

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Edited by: Zukira Al''Kalish on 29/07/2008 15:00:03
The frequency of these complaints is just growing and growing right now because we have an influx of 14 - 17 year olds getting into the game.

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Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

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But there's this really crazy method for dealing with being jammed. Ever heard of FoF Missiles? Gee... seems to me you don't need a target lock to use those.

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Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

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What is it the falcon does again? Oh... right... it disrupts your target lock. Well, gee... it would seem to me that there's a simple method of negating the effects of the Falcon.

Then there are the obvious ECCM modules... which you really should be fitting when you know/suspect you're goign to be comming across some evil b@st@rd with ECM.

If you think about the fact that fitting a good rack of ECM on the Falcon ensures that the ship may as well be made of paper mache. You're GUARANTEED to be fighting a glass boat if it's a falcon with ECM. FoF FTW.

In closing... OP needs to learn to rig their ship. If they can't wrap their mind around that, they should ask their mommy to stop paying for a big kids' game for them... maybe stick to something more their level... like colouring books.

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Originally by: baltec1

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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you say it like they should be able to jam a single hac 100% of the time. they shouldnt be able to even get close to permajamming even a single ship. 60% of the time is fair. Nerf falcons/ECM.

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You're a troll or a fool. Either that or this is a masked nano-whine. I don't know which and a don't really care.

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Here's your chance, you internet legend. Tell us why your ship should be able to take away another ship's ability to fight back, close to 100% of the time?

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It cant.

I got myself jammed in my geddon by one of these and when it missed a cycle I got it down to half armour in just a few vollies. Lucky for him I didnt have my 3 heatsink setup so he got another cycle and managed to warp off.


See a falcon can only solo up to a point. If it runs into anything with ECCM then its screwed, if it gets hit then it melts like butter, if it gets jammed itself its screwed, if it gets hit by heavy drones its screwed, if it meets a small gang its as good as a chocolate fireguard.

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Originally by: Xiaodown

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Edited by: Xiaodown on 29/07/2008 15:34:59

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

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Edited by: Zukira Al''Kalish on 29/07/2008 15:00:03
The frequency of these complaints is just growing and growing right now because we have an influx of 14 - 17 year olds getting into the game.

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How's the view from up there on your pedestal?

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

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But there's this really crazy method for dealing with being jammed. Ever heard of FoF Missiles? Gee... seems to me you don't need a target lock to use those.

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QUOTIN' SOMEONE WHO'S NEVER JAMMED OR BEEN JAMMED FROM 150KM AWAY!!!!LOL!

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

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What is it the falcon does again? Oh... right... it disrupts your target lock. Well, gee... it would seem to me that there's a simple method of negating the effects of the Falcon.

Then there are the obvious ECCM modules... which you really should be fitting when you know/suspect you're goign to be comming across some evil b@st@rd with ECM.

If you think about the fact that fitting a good rack of ECM on the Falcon ensures that the ship may as well be made of paper mache. You're GUARANTEED to be fighting a glass boat if it's a falcon with ECM. FoF FTW.

In closing... OP needs to learn to rig their ship. If they can't wrap their mind around that, they should ask their mommy to stop paying for a big kids' game for them... maybe stick to something more their level... like colouring books.

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Wow, dude. Seriously. Do you even play this game?

If a falcon jams you from 150km away, what can you do? Your answers are
1.) gimp your setup with ECCM modules
2.) Kill the falcon.

Ever chased a falcon down? As soon as he realizes you're headed for him, he disengages and cloaks.

There is no other force recon in the game that can affect ships from as far away as a falcon. Pilgrim has no range bonus to NOS or tracking disruptor, rapier's webs can hit out to only 40km unless you're using faction or overloading, lachesis scrams can hit to what, 50-60km? Plus the lachesis doesn't shut down your ability to fight.

No, the falcon is overpowered. It just is. Accept it, and then, gtfo.

~X

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Originally by: baltec1

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I have seen at the most 5 falcons in the past few months and only one has ended up killing me (with the help of 5 hugginns/rapiers)

Not only are they rare but they are also not that fantastic. I only fit one ECCM since realy thats all I need, a 10-20 second window can be the end for a falcon.

Also in fleet fights you might as well paint a giant crosshair on the hull and call it primary.

I am just getting the feeling you are angry over the nerf of nano and want to vent your range on something else.

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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you say it like they should be able to jam a single hac 100% of the time. they shouldnt be able to even get close to permajamming even a single ship. 60% of the time is fair. Nerf falcons/ECM.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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We are pleased to aim!

Or was that the other way around?

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: baltec1

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I have seen at the most 5 falcons in the past few months and only one has ended up killing me (with the help of 5 hugginns/rapiers)

Not only are they rare but they are also not that fantastic. I only fit one ECCM since realy thats all I need, a 10-20 second window can be the end for a falcon.

Also in fleet fights you might as well paint a giant crosshair on the hull and call it primary.

I am just getting the feeling you are angry over the nerf of nano and want to vent your range on something else.

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what ship do you fly that you can kill a falcon from 150+ km away in 20 secs. Do you go small gang roaming in a rail BS?

PS if you think falcons are rare, you really don't pvp much.

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Malcanis

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"gimp your setup with ECCMs"?

So... you'd support an ECCM script for a sensor booter then? That would answer that issue completely. Because I sincerely and from experience assure you that's it's really hard to jam an ECCm'd BS.

A Falcon can really only carry 5 jammers (sensor booster, MWD, 5 ECMs = 7 mids). A typical fit is 1 of each kind. An ECCm'd sniper rokh can easily sling Spike L out to further than a Falc can jam, even if it could do much about a sensor strength of 44. Likewise an ECCM Cerb with sensor strength 32.

The fact is, you get owned by Falcons because you refuse to take them into account when you're making your ship fittings. You just put your EFT-tastic short-range ships together and go out and get your ass kicked by balanced gangs led by FCs who know exactly how to deal with one-dimensional blobs like yours.

Most unbelievably of all someone asks "why SHOULD a falcon be able to take a single ship out of the fight?" Um, because it's a ELECTRONIC WARFARE SHIP, perhaps? What the eff else is it supposed to be for you maroon? If some guy turns up in a falc, you need him to be able to take out 2-3 ships to be worth losing the DPS, tank and tackle that he is completely unable to contribute.

I might just as well complain that a brutix is able to take my ship out of a fight with it's blasters and drones. And not just for 20 seconds, I might add.

tl;dr: EvE PvP is about more than just DPS vs Tank.

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People don't setup their ship to take in account they chance meet an arazu with damps or a curse with a tracking disruptor. Why should a falcon be any different?

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Originally by: Malcanis

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"gimp your setup with ECCMs"?

So... you'd support an ECCM script for a sensor booter then? That would answer that issue completely. Because I sincerely and from experience assure you that's it's really hard to jam an ECCm'd BS.

A Falcon can really only carry 5 jammers (sensor booster, MWD, 5 ECMs = 7 mids). A typical fit is 1 of each kind. An ECCm'd sniper rokh can easily sling Spike L out to further than a Falc can jam, even if it could do much about a sensor strength of 44. Likewise an ECCM Cerb with sensor strength 32.

The fact is, you get owned by Falcons because you refuse to take them into account when you're making your ship fittings. You just put your EFT-tastic short-range ships together and go out and get your ass kicked by balanced gangs led by FCs who know exactly how to deal with one-dimensional blobs like yours.

Most unbelievably of all someone asks "why SHOULD a falcon be able to take a single ship out of the fight?" Um, because it's a ELECTRONIC WARFARE SHIP, perhaps? What the eff else is it supposed to be for you maroon? If some guy turns up in a falc, you need him to be able to take out 2-3 ships to be worth losing the DPS, tank and tackle that he is completely unable to contribute.

I might just as well complain that a brutix is able to take my ship out of a fight with it's blasters and drones. And not just for 20 seconds, I might add.

tl;dr: EvE PvP is about more than just DPS vs Tank.

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People don't setup their ship to take in account they chance meet an arazu with damps or a curse with a tracking disruptor. Why should a falcon be any different?

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Then those people - ie: you - are idiots. If someone fitted a ship which took no account of the fact that he might get hit by EM damage, then he got melted by an amarr ship, you'd give him no sympathy when he whined that fitting an EM hardner gimps his tank vs Kin/Therm/Exp.

EW is in the game, so deal with it or continue to fail. Your call.

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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Something needs to be balanced seriously. I can jump into a system with 10 battleships vs 2 and say 2 falcons and still lose - ermmm....now thats wrong imo

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Queen Ba'Ku

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tbh he has a point, they are way overpowered. Falcons can permajam a few ships at once basically rendering a fleet useless and thats just silly especially when some can jam way over 150km and cloak as well!

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no they aren't and no they can't. they can't even permajam a single HAC 100% of the time. So stop making things up because you cant be bothered to learn to counter them.

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Oh whatever you must be the 1% of eve who firstly counters ECM cos you just would not normally, secondly there are a few thousand agree with what i say, and yes falcons can permajam - FACT!

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Falcons can't permajam anything HAC/BC or above - FACT!

Falcons can be countered or mitigated by:

drones
long range guns
long range missiles
FoF missiles
fast ships
ECCM modules
Sensor Integrity Gang Link (I use this myself, it's pretty sweet.)
warping

Assign a few light drones to an inty and put him on chase duty. He will completely negate the falcon, I promise you.

How you can claim that such a fragile, limited ship is overpowered escapes me. They are are useful for fighting poorly prepared cookie-cutter DPS-fit gangs, though.

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 15:02:14

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

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Edited by: Zukira Al''Kalish on 29/07/2008 15:00:03
The frequency of these complaints is just growing and growing right now because we have an influx of 14 - 17 year olds getting into the game.

Here's some news folks. A Falcon couldn't do enough DPS to peel the paint off the side of a barn. Sure they can jam you, but then what are they goign to do? They cant' even crack a half decent tank. Sounds pretty effing scary.

But there's this really crazy method for dealing with being jammed. Ever heard of FoF Missiles? Gee... seems to me you don't need a target lock to use those.

What is it the falcon does again? Oh... right... it disrupts your target lock. Well, gee... it would seem to me that there's a simple method of negating the effects of the Falcon.

Then there are the obvious ECCM modules... which you really should be fitting when you know/suspect you're goign to be comming across some evil b@st@rd with ECM.

If you think about the fact that fitting a good rack of ECM on the Falcon ensures that the ship may as well be made of paper mache. You're GUARANTEED to be fighting a glass boat if it's a falcon with ECM. FoF FTW.

In closing... OP needs to learn to rig their ship. If they can't wrap their mind around that, they should ask their mommy to stop paying for a big kids' game for them... maybe stick to something more their level... like colouring books.

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in closing, you need to realize that no one listened to the many counters to counter nano, so no one will use the counters to counter ECM. So, just nerf it.

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Originally by: Ruiryu

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 15:02:14

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

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Edited by: Zukira Al''Kalish on 29/07/2008 15:00:03
The frequency of these complaints is just growing and growing right now because we have an influx of 14 - 17 year olds getting into the game.

Here's some news folks. A Falcon couldn't do enough DPS to peel the paint off the side of a barn. Sure they can jam you, but then what are they goign to do? They cant' even crack a half decent tank. Sounds pretty effing scary.

But there's this really crazy method for dealing with being jammed. Ever heard of FoF Missiles? Gee... seems to me you don't need a target lock to use those.

What is it the falcon does again? Oh... right... it disrupts your target lock. Well, gee... it would seem to me that there's a simple method of negating the effects of the Falcon.

Then there are the obvious ECCM modules... which you really should be fitting when you know/suspect you're goign to be comming across some evil b@st@rd with ECM.

If you think about the fact that fitting a good rack of ECM on the Falcon ensures that the ship may as well be made of paper mache. You're GUARANTEED to be fighting a glass boat if it's a falcon with ECM. FoF FTW.

In closing... OP needs to learn to rig their ship. If they can't wrap their mind around that, they should ask their mommy to stop paying for a big kids' game for them... maybe stick to something more their level... like colouring books.

---

in closing, you need to realize that no one listened to the many counters to counter nano, so no one will use the counters to counter ECM. So, just nerf it.

---

Your logic fails epically.

The only counter the Nanos were 2 things Large Nuets, and either the Rapier and Huginn.

Move along fail troll, stop whining about your freaking nanos. Secondly the nanos weren't 1 ship, the nano issue covers a multitude of ships. So KTHXBYE.

---

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

---

Ever chased a falcon down? As soon as he realizes you're headed for him, he disengages and cloaks.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

long range guns/long range missle - I combined these becaus eyou are saying the same, IE a sniper ship. This requires the fit of a ECCM module (Probably 2 to make sure you wont get jammed at all) to get a sniper ship out to the range required to hit you at 200k cant spare the slots to fit those ECCM modules you think are so great. Secondly, sniper ships are utterly worthless in small gang combat. They have no tank and crap DPS. Why should I have to sacrifice 2 ship out of my gang for nothing but falcon patrol?

Plate up and 1 ECCM is all I need and snipers are good for taking on ALOT of ship thypes and builds



fast ships - Not going to be an option anymore after the speed nerf. This USED to be a decent counter but after the speed nerf falcons will be even more overpowedred

Intis perhaps? the vaga will still be usefull

ECCM modules - One again. they are WEAK and having to fit a module that has a single use and only one effect to have to deal with ONE ship is not balance. That why for instance sensor booster are balanced. They defend against damp but when your not agaisnt a damp ship it still a useful module. Have a ECCM and not up against a falcon, you wasted a slot.

It works well for me and is a must in fleet fights when I will be against griffins, blackbirds, scorpions, caldari recons and even badgers so they are not just for one ship.

warping - Lol, your idea of a counter is running away? Yeah.... Thats balanced. Falcons are perfectly balanced, you can run from them!!

If you have to run away from a solo falcon in a hac or above you are doing something very wrong.

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 16:32:25
Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 16:31:52

Originally by: Ruiryu

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 15:02:14

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

---

Edited by: Zukira Al''Kalish on 29/07/2008 15:00:03
The frequency of these complaints is just growing and growing right now because we have an influx of 14 - 17 year olds getting into the game.

Here's some news folks. A Falcon couldn't do enough DPS to peel the paint off the side of a barn. Sure they can jam you, but then what are they goign to do? They cant' even crack a half decent tank. Sounds pretty effing scary.

But there's this really crazy method for dealing with being jammed. Ever heard of FoF Missiles? Gee... seems to me you don't need a target lock to use those.

What is it the falcon does again? Oh... right... it disrupts your target lock. Well, gee... it would seem to me that there's a simple method of negating the effects of the Falcon.

Then there are the obvious ECCM modules... which you really should be fitting when you know/suspect you're goign to be comming across some evil b@st@rd with ECM.

If you think about the fact that fitting a good rack of ECM on the Falcon ensures that the ship may as well be made of paper mache. You're GUARANTEED to be fighting a glass boat if it's a falcon with ECM. FoF FTW.

In closing... OP needs to learn to rig their ship. If they can't wrap their mind around that, they should ask their mommy to stop paying for a big kids' game for them... maybe stick to something more their level... like colouring books.

---

in closing, you need to realize that no one listened to the many counters to counter nano, so no one will use the counters to counter ECM. So, just nerf it.

---

Your logic fails epically.

The only counter the Nanos were 2 things Large Nuets, and either the Rapier and Huginn.

Move along fail troll, stop whining about your freaking nanos. Secondly the nanos weren't 1 ship, the nano issue covers a multitude of ships. So KTHXBYE.

---

you'll whinge when falcons will be nerfed, and they will. Let's see how much of a man you are when you have to pvp without your falcon pvp condom alt.

---

Originally by: baltec1

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

long range guns/long range missle - I combined these becaus eyou are saying the same, IE a sniper ship. This requires the fit of a ECCM module (Probably 2 to make sure you wont get jammed at all) to get a sniper ship out to the range required to hit you at 200k cant spare the slots to fit those ECCM modules you think are so great. Secondly, sniper ships are utterly worthless in small gang combat. They have no tank and crap DPS. Why should I have to sacrifice 2 ship out of my gang for nothing but falcon patrol?

Plate up and 1 ECCM is all I need and snipers are good for taking on ALOT of ship thypes and builds



fast ships - Not going to be an option anymore after the speed nerf. This USED to be a decent counter but after the speed nerf falcons will be even more overpowedred

Intis perhaps? the vaga will still be usefull

ECCM modules - One again. they are WEAK and having to fit a module that has a single use and only one effect to have to deal with ONE ship is not balance. That why for instance sensor booster are balanced. They defend against damp but when your not agaisnt a damp ship it still a useful module. Have a ECCM and not up against a falcon, you wasted a slot.

It works well for me and is a must in fleet fights when I will be against griffins, blackbirds, scorpions, caldari recons and even badgers so they are not just for one ship.

warping - Lol, your idea of a counter is running away? Yeah.... Thats balanced. Falcons are perfectly balanced, you can run from them!!

If you have to run away from a solo falcon in a hac or above you are doing something very wrong.

---

These ships can be a pain but they are nothing like some of the nano ships which realy are next to impossible to kill.

---

Originally by: Ruiryu

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 16:32:25
Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 16:31:52

Originally by: Ruiryu

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 15:02:14

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

---

Edited by: Zukira Al''Kalish on 29/07/2008 15:00:03
The frequency of these complaints is just growing and growing right now because we have an influx of 14 - 17 year olds getting into the game.

Here's some news folks. A Falcon couldn't do enough DPS to peel the paint off the side of a barn. Sure they can jam you, but then what are they goign to do? They cant' even crack a half decent tank. Sounds pretty effing scary.

But there's this really crazy method for dealing with being jammed. Ever heard of FoF Missiles? Gee... seems to me you don't need a target lock to use those.

What is it the falcon does again? Oh... right... it disrupts your target lock. Well, gee... it would seem to me that there's a simple method of negating the effects of the Falcon.

Then there are the obvious ECCM modules... which you really should be fitting when you know/suspect you're goign to be comming across some evil b@st@rd with ECM.

If you think about the fact that fitting a good rack of ECM on the Falcon ensures that the ship may as well be made of paper mache. You're GUARANTEED to be fighting a glass boat if it's a falcon with ECM. FoF FTW.

In closing... OP needs to learn to rig their ship. If they can't wrap their mind around that, they should ask their mommy to stop paying for a big kids' game for them... maybe stick to something more their level... like colouring books.

---

in closing, you need to realize that no one listened to the many counters to counter nano, so no one will use the counters to counter ECM. So, just nerf it.

---

Your logic fails epically.

The only counter the Nanos were 2 things Large Nuets, and either the Rapier and Huginn.

Move along fail troll, stop whining about your freaking nanos. Secondly the nanos weren't 1 ship, the nano issue covers a multitude of ships. So KTHXBYE.

---

you'll whinge when falcons will be nerfed, and they will. Let's see how much of a man you are when you have to pvp without your falcon pvp condom alt.

---

Epic fail by you.

Good job on those reading skills that should have been developed in grade school. I said earlier I don't fly the ship because it has way to many vices. But congrats on that.

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Originally by: Ruiryu

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 16:32:25
Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 16:31:52

Originally by: Ruiryu

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 15:02:14

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

---

Edited by: Zukira Al''Kalish on 29/07/2008 15:00:03
The frequency of these complaints is just growing and growing right now because we have an influx of 14 - 17 year olds getting into the game.

Here's some news folks. A Falcon couldn't do enough DPS to peel the paint off the side of a barn. Sure they can jam you, but then what are they goign to do? They cant' even crack a half decent tank. Sounds pretty effing scary.

But there's this really crazy method for dealing with being jammed. Ever heard of FoF Missiles? Gee... seems to me you don't need a target lock to use those.

What is it the falcon does again? Oh... right... it disrupts your target lock. Well, gee... it would seem to me that there's a simple method of negating the effects of the Falcon.

Then there are the obvious ECCM modules... which you really should be fitting when you know/suspect you're goign to be comming across some evil b@st@rd with ECM.

If you think about the fact that fitting a good rack of ECM on the Falcon ensures that the ship may as well be made of paper mache. You're GUARANTEED to be fighting a glass boat if it's a falcon with ECM. FoF FTW.

In closing... OP needs to learn to rig their ship. If they can't wrap their mind around that, they should ask their mommy to stop paying for a big kids' game for them... maybe stick to something more their level... like colouring books.

---

in closing, you need to realize that no one listened to the many counters to counter nano, so no one will use the counters to counter ECM. So, just nerf it.

---

Your logic fails epically.

The only counter the Nanos were 2 things Large Nuets, and either the Rapier and Huginn.

Move along fail troll, stop whining about your freaking nanos. Secondly the nanos weren't 1 ship, the nano issue covers a multitude of ships. So KTHXBYE.

---

you'll whinge when falcons will be nerfed, and they will. Let's see how much of a man you are when you have to pvp without your falcon pvp condom alt.

---

Epic fail by you.

Good job on those reading skills that should have been developed in grade school. I said earlier I don't fly the ship because it has way to many vices. But congrats on that.

---

vices? does it smoke or do crack? methinks you are using that word out of context. Please don't comment on grammar or reading comprehension anymore failtard. I think the word you are going for is "weaknesses"

---

Originally by: Ruiryu

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Originally by: Ruiryu

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 16:32:25
Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 16:31:52

Originally by: Ruiryu

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 29/07/2008 15:02:14

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish

---

Edited by: Zukira Al''Kalish on 29/07/2008 15:00:03
The frequency of these complaints is just growing and growing right now because we have an influx of 14 - 17 year olds getting into the game.

Here's some news folks. A Falcon couldn't do enough DPS to peel the paint off the side of a barn. Sure they can jam you, but then what are they goign to do? They cant' even crack a half decent tank. Sounds pretty effing scary.

But there's this really crazy method for dealing with being jammed. Ever heard of FoF Missiles? Gee... seems to me you don't need a target lock to use those.

What is it the falcon does again? Oh... right... it disrupts your target lock. Well, gee... it would seem to me that there's a simple method of negating the effects of the Falcon.

Then there are the obvious ECCM modules... which you really should be fitting when you know/suspect you're goign to be comming across some evil b@st@rd with ECM.

If you think about the fact that fitting a good rack of ECM on the Falcon ensures that the ship may as well be made of paper mache. You're GUARANTEED to be fighting a glass boat if it's a falcon with ECM. FoF FTW.

In closing... OP needs to learn to rig their ship. If they can't wrap their mind around that, they should ask their mommy to stop paying for a big kids' game for them... maybe stick to something more their level... like colouring books.

---

in closing, you need to realize that no one listened to the many counters to counter nano, so no one will use the counters to counter ECM. So, just nerf it.

---

Your logic fails epically.

The only counter the Nanos were 2 things Large Nuets, and either the Rapier and Huginn.

Move along fail troll, stop whining about your freaking nanos. Secondly the nanos weren't 1 ship, the nano issue covers a multitude of ships. So KTHXBYE.

---

you'll whinge when falcons will be nerfed, and they will. Let's see how much of a man you are when you have to pvp without your falcon pvp condom alt.

---

Epic fail by you.

Good job on those reading skills that should have been developed in grade school. I said earlier I don't fly the ship because it has way to many vices. But congrats on that.

---

vices? does it smoke or do crack? methinks you are using that word out of context. Please don't comment on grammar or reading comprehension anymore failtard. I think the word you are going for is "weaknesses"

---

Once again you fail.
Vice
-Noun
-A fault, defect, or short coming

---

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

Slow down there skippy - you have a module that protects you pretty damn well (juuust shy of -50% chance to jam per jammer) and you STILL complain?

Fair enough - throw out the ECCM module altogether and make it a Sensor Booster Script. Problem sovled. If you can't find room for a Sensor Booster you clearly don't care about your EWAR resistance.

---

-------------------
| DO NOT FEED THE |
| TROLL |
-------------------
 ||
 ||

Originally by: thisismyalt

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Yea, so the Falcon can jam you - it sure cant kill you.

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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quotin' a faildari noobtard still complaining about his inability to kill nano ships. talk about hypocritical. Point is, if you are going to nerf ships that are hard to kill, better nerf em all, and falcons fit into that mold.

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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quotin' a faildari noobtard still complaining about his inability to kill nano ships. talk about hypocritical. Point is, if you are going to nerf ships that are hard to kill, better nerf em all, and falcons fit into that mold.

---

Originally by: Omara Otawan

---

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 29/07/2008 17:12:23

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

Slow down there skippy - you have a module that protects you pretty damn well (juuust shy of -50% chance to jam per jammer) and you STILL complain?

Fair enough - throw out the ECCM module altogether and make it a Sensor Booster Script. Problem sovled. If you can't find room for a Sensor Booster you clearly don't care about your EWAR resistance.

---

-------------------
| DO NOT FEED THE |
| TROLL |
-------------------
 ||
 ||

To be fair, ECCM is completely useless on ships below BS size, so he has a point there. They tend to work from sensor strength 20 and up in my experience.

The main problem is he might need one more jammer to reliably take you out, but result is the same, especially in small gang engagements you usually have more falcons than needed to jam the whole enemy fleet even if they fit ECCM.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

drones - The person assigning the drones to the inty must be within drone control range of the target. To give you a idea of how hard this is my domi with 2 drone link augmenters still only has a drone control range of 91k

long range guns/long range missle - I combined these becaus eyou are saying the same, IE a sniper ship. This requires the fit of a ECCM module (Probably 2 to make sure you wont get jammed at all) to get a sniper ship out to the range required to hit you at 200k cant spare the slots to fit those ECCM modules you think are so great. Secondly, sniper ships are utterly worthless in small gang combat. They have no tank and crap DPS. Why should I have to sacrifice 2 ship out of my gang for nothing but falcon patrol?

FoF missiles - Not gonna hit at 200k, They never go for the farthest target.

fast ships - Not going to be an option anymore after the speed nerf. This USED to be a decent counter but after the speed nerf falcons will be even more overpowedred

ECCM modules - One again. they are WEAK and having to fit a module that has a single use and only one effect to have to deal with ONE ship is not balance. That why for instance sensor booster are balanced. They defend against damp but when your not agaisnt a damp ship it still a useful module. Have a ECCM and not up against a falcon, you wasted a slot.

Sensor Integrity Gang Link (I use this myself, it's pretty sweet.) - Don't know anything about this but unless it boosts everyone to the point where they are three times harder to jam I don't really care.

warping - Lol, your idea of a counter is running away? Yeah.... Thats balanced. Falcons are perfectly balanced, you can run from them!!

---

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

Originally by: Omara Otawan

---

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 29/07/2008 17:12:23

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

Slow down there skippy - you have a module that protects you pretty damn well (juuust shy of -50% chance to jam per jammer) and you STILL complain?

Fair enough - throw out the ECCM module altogether and make it a Sensor Booster Script. Problem sovled. If you can't find room for a Sensor Booster you clearly don't care about your EWAR resistance.

---

-------------------
| DO NOT FEED THE |
| TROLL |
-------------------
 ||
 ||

To be fair, ECCM is completely useless on ships below BS size, so he has a point there. They tend to work from sensor strength 20 and up in my experience.

The main problem is he might need one more jammer to reliably take you out, but result is the same, especially in small gang engagements you usually have more falcons than needed to jam the whole enemy fleet even if they fit ECCM.

---

ECM works well on several of the HAC's - or at least the Caldari HAC's both of which have the ability to engage in the native range of the Falcon and a fairly high sensor strength.

And in a gang fight the falcon is going to ECM the biggest DPS ships first. Yep I can perma jam a frigate - but unless someone needs to make a quick getaway from a tackler I don't bother. I almost always try to leave a jammer free also - never know when I myself need to make a quick getaway.

For more fun, try using Stealth bombers for the falcon interdiction tasks. High native engagment range, fantastic alpha strike (that hits for full damage no less) and the ability to get in close if need be. 3 SB's can instapop a falcon in one volley, and if your within about 70km the missiles will get there before he can even hope to warp.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

drones - The person assigning the drones to the inty must be within drone control range of the target. To give you a idea of how hard this is my domi with 2 drone link augmenters still only has a drone control range of 91k

long range guns/long range missle - I combined these becaus eyou are saying the same, IE a sniper ship. This requires the fit of a ECCM module (Probably 2 to make sure you wont get jammed at all) to get a sniper ship out to the range required to hit you at 200k cant spare the slots to fit those ECCM modules you think are so great. Secondly, sniper ships are utterly worthless in small gang combat. They have no tank and crap DPS. Why should I have to sacrifice 2 ship out of my gang for nothing but falcon patrol?

FoF missiles - Not gonna hit at 200k, They never go for the farthest target.

fast ships - Not going to be an option anymore after the speed nerf. This USED to be a decent counter but after the speed nerf falcons will be even more overpowedred

ECCM modules - One again. they are WEAK and having to fit a module that has a single use and only one effect to have to deal with ONE ship is not balance. That why for instance sensor booster are balanced. They defend against damp but when your not agaisnt a damp ship it still a useful module. Have a ECCM and not up against a falcon, you wasted a slot.

Sensor Integrity Gang Link (I use this myself, it's pretty sweet.) - Don't know anything about this but unless it boosts everyone to the point where they are three times harder to jam I don't really care.

warping - Lol, your idea of a counter is running away? Yeah.... Thats balanced. Falcons are perfectly balanced, you can run from them!!

---

The fail is strong in this one. Your last comment especially shows that you are unusually fail. Falcons have no special ability to got 160Km from the gate. If they can do that it's because they have bookmarks. Other ships can make bookmarks too.

Senor Integrity adds 22.5% sensor strength without a mindlink. That's actually a pretty nice bonus. It will make a BS/BC significantly harder to jam.

Ah, I could go through the rest and amplify, but you won't listen so it would be a waste of time. Suffice it to say that after 5 months of flying falcons I'm perfectly well aware of their strengths and weaknesses, as you are obviously not, and I'm training for something else. I've ben in fights where the enemy was not prepared for ECM ships, and dominated; I've been in fights where they were and been dominated. Rock meet paper meet scissors.

Don't come whining to these forums if ECM gets nerfed and remote-rep gangs are wtfpwning you.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

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Speaking as a Falcon pilot, stealth bomber pilots should all be sent to prison for a very long time. Especially Purifier pilots.

---

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Speaking as a Falcon pilot, stealth bomber pilots should all be sent to prison for a very long time. Especially Purifier pilots.

---

It's even BETTER if you're in a blackbird and they put you in deep structure in one volley.

I don't know WHY people so rarely think to bring SB's for the job. I mean, it's sorta the role they appear to be BORN to play.

---

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

drones - The person assigning the drones to the inty must be within drone control range of the target. To give you a idea of how hard this is my domi with 2 drone link augmenters still only has a drone control range of 91k

long range guns/long range missle - I combined these becaus eyou are saying the same, IE a sniper ship. This requires the fit of a ECCM module (Probably 2 to make sure you wont get jammed at all) to get a sniper ship out to the range required to hit you at 200k cant spare the slots to fit those ECCM modules you think are so great. Secondly, sniper ships are utterly worthless in small gang combat. They have no tank and crap DPS. Why should I have to sacrifice 2 ship out of my gang for nothing but falcon patrol?

FoF missiles - Not gonna hit at 200k, They never go for the farthest target.

fast ships - Not going to be an option anymore after the speed nerf. This USED to be a decent counter but after the speed nerf falcons will be even more overpowedred

ECCM modules - One again. they are WEAK and having to fit a module that has a single use and only one effect to have to deal with ONE ship is not balance. That why for instance sensor booster are balanced. They defend against damp but when your not agaisnt a damp ship it still a useful module. Have a ECCM and not up against a falcon, you wasted a slot.

Sensor Integrity Gang Link (I use this myself, it's pretty sweet.) - Don't know anything about this but unless it boosts everyone to the point where they are three times harder to jam I don't really care.

warping - Lol, your idea of a counter is running away? Yeah.... Thats balanced. Falcons are perfectly balanced, you can run from them!!

---

The fail is strong in this one. Your last comment especially shows that you are unusually fail. Falcons have no special ability to got 160Km from the gate. If they can do that it's because they have bookmarks. Other ships can make bookmarks too.

Senor Integrity adds 22.5% sensor strength without a mindlink. That's actually a pretty nice bonus. It will make a BS/BC significantly harder to jam.

Ah, I could go through the rest and amplify, but you won't listen so it would be a waste of time. Suffice it to say that after 5 months of flying falcons I'm perfectly well aware of their strengths and weaknesses, as you are obviously not, and I'm training for something else. I've ben in fights where the enemy was not prepared for ECM ships, and dominated; I've been in fights where they were and been dominated. Rock meet paper meet scissors.

Don't come whining to these forums if ECM gets nerfed and remote-rep gangs are wtfpwning you.

---

In the grand scheme of things in Eve there are but three routes with which to approach a problem:

Tank, Spank, and Trickery. People whined and moaned when trickery (ECM, Dampners, NOS, Neuts, Speed and so forth - little more than variations on the first two) was insufficent to counter tank and spank. Then it became such that trickery can easily best tank and spank.

Without ECM or Speed or Damps or Nos or Neuts your ONLY options left are to out tank and out gank your opponents.

If you don't want blobs you have to give that third option the ability to counter tank and spank. If you're fine with numbers being the only significant factor in the equation, by all means nerf everything that is not directly gank or tank.

Or, you could, I don't know BOOST the other ewar and perhaps the counter ewar?

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

drones - The person assigning the drones to the inty must be within drone control range of the target. To give you a idea of how hard this is my domi with 2 drone link augmenters still only has a drone control range of 91k

long range guns/long range missle - I combined these becaus eyou are saying the same, IE a sniper ship. This requires the fit of a ECCM module (Probably 2 to make sure you wont get jammed at all) to get a sniper ship out to the range required to hit you at 200k cant spare the slots to fit those ECCM modules you think are so great. Secondly, sniper ships are utterly worthless in small gang combat. They have no tank and crap DPS. Why should I have to sacrifice 2 ship out of my gang for nothing but falcon patrol?

FoF missiles - Not gonna hit at 200k, They never go for the farthest target.

fast ships - Not going to be an option anymore after the speed nerf. This USED to be a decent counter but after the speed nerf falcons will be even more overpowedred

ECCM modules - One again. they are WEAK and having to fit a module that has a single use and only one effect to have to deal with ONE ship is not balance. That why for instance sensor booster are balanced. They defend against damp but when your not agaisnt a damp ship it still a useful module. Have a ECCM and not up against a falcon, you wasted a slot.

Sensor Integrity Gang Link (I use this myself, it's pretty sweet.) - Don't know anything about this but unless it boosts everyone to the point where they are three times harder to jam I don't really care.

warping - Lol, your idea of a counter is running away? Yeah.... Thats balanced. Falcons are perfectly balanced, you can run from them!!

---

The fail is strong in this one. Your last comment especially shows that you are unusually fail. Falcons have no special ability to got 160Km from the gate. If they can do that it's because they have bookmarks. Other ships can make bookmarks too.

Senor Integrity adds 22.5% sensor strength without a mindlink. That's actually a pretty nice bonus. It will make a BS/BC significantly harder to jam.

Ah, I could go through the rest and amplify, but you won't listen so it would be a waste of time. Suffice it to say that after 5 months of flying falcons I'm perfectly well aware of their strengths and weaknesses, as you are obviously not, and I'm training for something else. I've ben in fights where the enemy was not prepared for ECM ships, and dominated; I've been in fights where they were and been dominated. Rock meet paper meet scissors.

Don't come whining to these forums if ECM gets nerfed and remote-rep gangs are wtfpwning you.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Yea, so the Falcon can jam you - it sure cant kill you.

---

Nope, but the rest of his gang that you sure as hell can't kill can kill you with no problem. We aren't talking about solo PvP here, we are talking about gang PvP.

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Yea, so the Falcon can jam you - it sure cant kill you.

---

Nope, but the rest of his gang that you sure as hell can't kill can kill you with no problem. We aren't talking about solo PvP here, we are talking about gang PvP.

---

Well, if its small gang you can um like bring your own falcons??

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 29/07/2008 18:05:27

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

drones - The person assigning the drones to the inty must be within drone control range of the target. To give you a idea of how hard this is my domi with 2 drone link augmenters still only has a drone control range of 91k

long range guns/long range missle - I combined these becaus eyou are saying the same, IE a sniper ship. This requires the fit of a ECCM module (Probably 2 to make sure you wont get jammed at all) to get a sniper ship out to the range required to hit you at 200k cant spare the slots to fit those ECCM modules you think are so great. Secondly, sniper ships are utterly worthless in small gang combat. They have no tank and crap DPS. Why should I have to sacrifice 2 ship out of my gang for nothing but falcon patrol?

FoF missiles - Not gonna hit at 200k, They never go for the farthest target.

fast ships - Not going to be an option anymore after the speed nerf. This USED to be a decent counter but after the speed nerf falcons will be even more overpowedred

ECCM modules - One again. they are WEAK and having to fit a module that has a single use and only one effect to have to deal with ONE ship is not balance. That why for instance sensor booster are balanced. They defend against damp but when your not agaisnt a damp ship it still a useful module. Have a ECCM and not up against a falcon, you wasted a slot.

Sensor Integrity Gang Link (I use this myself, it's pretty sweet.) - Don't know anything about this but unless it boosts everyone to the point where they are three times harder to jam I don't really care.

warping - Lol, your idea of a counter is running away? Yeah.... Thats balanced. Falcons are perfectly balanced, you can run from them!!

---

The fail is strong in this one. Your last comment especially shows that you are unusually fail. Falcons have no special ability to got 160Km from the gate. If they can do that it's because they have bookmarks. Other ships can make bookmarks too.

Senor Integrity adds 22.5% sensor strength without a mindlink. That's actually a pretty nice bonus. It will make a BS/BC significantly harder to jam.

Ah, I could go through the rest and amplify, but you won't listen so it would be a waste of time. Suffice it to say that after 5 months of flying falcons I'm perfectly well aware of their strengths and weaknesses, as you are obviously not, and I'm training for something else. I've ben in fights where the enemy was not prepared for ECM ships, and dominated; I've been in fights where they were and been dominated. Rock meet paper meet scissors.

Don't come whining to these forums if ECM gets nerfed and remote-rep gangs are wtfpwning you.

---

They have bookmarks because bookmarks are useful to a ECM ship. Not so much other ships so it looks the fail in indeed strong with YOU. Perhaps you don't want to go through the rest of the list because all my points are valid and you are simply running out of excuses? Your frustration has nothing to do with me not listening, It is caused entirely by your inability to refute my valid points with valid arguments of your own.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Yea, so the Falcon can jam you - it sure cant kill you.

---

Nope, but the rest of his gang that you sure as hell can't kill can kill you with no problem. We aren't talking about solo PvP here, we are talking about gang PvP.

---

Well, if its small gang you can um like bring your own falcons??

---

This is exactly the reason why nano's were nerfed. Because the only counter (According to the dev's) Was that the only counter was another nano. Since nano's were overpowered because of that reason it stands to reason falcons are as well.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Yea, so the Falcon can jam you - it sure cant kill you.

---

Nope, but the rest of his gang that you sure as hell can't kill can kill you with no problem. We aren't talking about solo PvP here, we are talking about gang PvP.

---

Well, if its small gang you can um like bring your own falcons??

---

This is exactly the reason why nano's were nerfed. Because the only counter (According to the dev's) Was that the only counter was another nano. Since nano's were overpowered because of that reason it stands to reason falcons are as well.

---

OK by now you're just flat out lying.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Yea, so the Falcon can jam you - it sure cant kill you.

---

Nope, but the rest of his gang that you sure as hell can't kill can kill you with no problem. We aren't talking about solo PvP here, we are talking about gang PvP.

---

Well, if its small gang you can um like bring your own falcons??

---

This is exactly the reason why nano's were nerfed. Because the only counter (According to the dev's) Was that the only counter was another nano. Since nano's were overpowered because of that reason it stands to reason falcons are as well.

---

OK by now you're just flat out lying.

---

Read the dev blog. I will be waiting for your apology for saying I am lying.

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Yea, so the Falcon can jam you - it sure cant kill you.

---

Nope, but the rest of his gang that you sure as hell can't kill can kill you with no problem. We aren't talking about solo PvP here, we are talking about gang PvP.

---

Well, if its small gang you can um like bring your own falcons??

---

Originally by: Salvar Ar'adim

---

Edited by: Salvar Ar''adim on 29/07/2008 18:24:11

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: thisismyalt

---

Yea, so the Falcon can jam you - it sure cant kill you.

---

Nope, but the rest of his gang that you sure as hell can't kill can kill you with no problem. We aren't talking about solo PvP here, we are talking about gang PvP.

---

Well, if its small gang you can um like bring your own falcons??

---

This is exactly the reason why nano's were nerfed. Because the only counter (According to the dev's) Was that the only counter was another nano. Since nano's were overpowered because of that reason it stands to reason falcons are as well.

---

OK by now you're just flat out lying.

---

Read the dev blog. I will be waiting for your apology for saying I am lying.

---

I think he means about the falcon.

You may have heard of ECCM, plus, Ancient Chinese Proverb: A damped falcon jams no targets

Just because you can't think of any counters doesn't mean there aren't any....

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Falcons/arazu's SHOULD be the anti falcon ship but unfortunately they are not. I would LOVE for them to be but damps don't have the range. It's hard enough to get close enough to get damps on them as it is now, ocne the speed nerf hits its going to be impossible. Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Fighting a bookmarking falcon

This has multiple issues. First you must have bookmarks in the same system that the falcon does. This is unlikely. Second your bookmarks must be within range of the falcons bookmarks. This is even MORE unlikely. Third You must be packing enough ECCM (Probably 2 of them) to make sure that if you DO happen to have a bookmark within range of the falcons bookmarks that the falcon won't just jam you. Because your fitting those mods your range and accuracy is diminshed which means you have to be even CLOSER meaning the margin for error for your bookmarks being within range of the falcons is even lower. Lastly if the moon and stars happen to align and you get within range with a bookmark and get a lock the falcon simply warps to another bookmark and continues jamming your gang. He is out of commission for maybe 15 seconds.

Warping. You are correct that it breaks locks but you fail to take into account that the majority of ships don't fight at that 150k to 200k range that you get to in your falcon. What does this mean? More than likely you are going to be pointed. That DOES prevent warping.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Falcons/arazu's SHOULD be the anti falcon ship but unfortunately they are not. I would LOVE for them to be but damps don't have the range. It's hard enough to get close enough to get damps on them as it is now, ocne the speed nerf hits its going to be impossible. Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

---

Look, let's cut this back to its fundamentals:

You're a non falcon pilot who's telling me about the ways you've failed vs Falcons.

I'm a Falcon pilot who's telling you about the ways that other pilots have - in my personal experience - succeeded vs Falcons.

Who is best qualified to pronounce on whether the Falcon is overpowered?


No matter how passionately you defend the fact of your failures - and believe me when I say that I'm convinced, they don't change the fact of the possibility of success.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Falcons/arazu's SHOULD be the anti falcon ship but unfortunately they are not. I would LOVE for them to be but damps don't have the range. It's hard enough to get close enough to get damps on them as it is now, ocne the speed nerf hits its going to be impossible. Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Falcons/arazu's SHOULD be the anti falcon ship but unfortunately they are not. I would LOVE for them to be but damps don't have the range. It's hard enough to get close enough to get damps on them as it is now, ocne the speed nerf hits its going to be impossible. Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

---

Look, let's cut this back to its fundamentals:

You're a non falcon pilot who's telling me about the ways you've failed vs Falcons.

I'm a Falcon pilot who's telling you about the ways that other pilots have - in my personal experience - succeeded vs Falcons.

Who is best qualified to pronounce on whether the Falcon is overpowered?


No matter how passionately you defend the fact of your failures - and believe me when I say that I'm convinced, they don't change the fact of the possibility of success.

---

Ignatious' point made perfect sense. Why do you try to counter it with sycophantic BS?

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Falcons/arazu's SHOULD be the anti falcon ship but unfortunately they are not. I would LOVE for them to be but damps don't have the range. It's hard enough to get close enough to get damps on them as it is now, ocne the speed nerf hits its going to be impossible. Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

---

Look, let's cut this back to its fundamentals:

You're a non falcon pilot who's telling me about the ways you've failed vs Falcons.

I'm a Falcon pilot who's telling you about the ways that other pilots have - in my personal experience - succeeded vs Falcons.

Who is best qualified to pronounce on whether the Falcon is overpowered?


No matter how passionately you defend the fact of your failures - and believe me when I say that I'm convinced, they don't change the fact of the possibility of success.

---

Ignatious' point made perfect sense. Why do you try to counter it with sycophantic BS?

---

See the post above for the hard, numerical facts, you semi-evolved simian.

---

Originally by: Matrixcvd

---

i hate to say this, but if the nerf to nano goes thru, too many people are going to be complaining about how difficult it is to tackle them since they go so slow now and only inty's will be able to get out to them fast enough.

Am I calling for a nerf, not really but i wouldnt be surprised with how stupid CCP is to bend to the next nerf falcon wave and make the ECM optimals at 25km just cause CCP NOZH thinks 500m/s is an apprieciable boost in speed...

i wont be around for it and no you can't have my stuff

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

you show no substantiated facts and counter arguements with assumptions on how much experience other people have vs you with falcons. Weak & lame on your end my balding little buddy.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

you show no substantiated facts and counter arguements with assumptions on how much experience other people have vs you with falcons. Weak & lame on your end my balding little buddy.

---

T2 Damps can reach out to [Optimal = 30Km *1.5 *1.2 *1.17] + [Falloff = 60Km *1.5] = 153.18Km right now.


Refute or STFU

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

you show no substantiated facts and counter arguements with assumptions on how much experience other people have vs you with falcons. Weak & lame on your end my balding little buddy.

---

T2 Damps can reach out to [Optimal = 30Km *1.5 *1.2 *1.17] + [Falloff = 60Km *1.5] = 153.18Km right now.


Refute or STFU

---

what is an arazu's targetting range?

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Originally by: Matrixcvd

---

i hate to say this, but if the nerf to nano goes thru, too many people are going to be complaining about how difficult it is to tackle them since they go so slow now and only inty's will be able to get out to them fast enough.

Am I calling for a nerf, not really but i wouldnt be surprised with how stupid CCP is to bend to the next nerf falcon wave and make the ECM optimals at 25km just cause CCP NOZH thinks 500m/s is an apprieciable boost in speed...

i wont be around for it and no you can't have my stuff

---

ecm is already more effective than other ewar. no need for the falcon to have a range of 150+ km. thats just overkill and ***** tbh.

---

Originally by: Elirel

---

this thread is about serious Internet Spaceship stuff.

---

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

ECM works well on several of the HAC's - or at least the Caldari HAC's both of which have the ability to engage in the native range of the Falcon and a fairly high sensor strength.

---

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

And in a gang fight the falcon is going to ECM the biggest DPS ships first. Yep I can perma jam a frigate - but unless someone needs to make a quick getaway from a tackler I don't bother. I almost always try to leave a jammer free also - never know when I myself need to make a quick getaway.

---

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

For more fun, try using Stealth bombers for the falcon interdiction tasks.

---

Originally by: BABARR

---

Yes the falcon is a pain,and more since CCP boosted the ECM target jammer strenght from 10 to 20% where NOBODY ask for this boost !

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

This is exactly the reason why nano's were nerfed. Because the only counter (According to the dev's) Was that the only counter was another nano. Since nano's were overpowered because of that reason it stands to reason falcons are as well.

---

Originally by: Ademaro Imre

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

This is exactly the reason why nano's were nerfed. Because the only counter (According to the dev's) Was that the only counter was another nano. Since nano's were overpowered because of that reason it stands to reason falcons are as well.

---

The Dev Blog reason was that the speeds were, and I quote, "ludicrous."

---

Quote:

---

Currently weÆve got a number of different systems that affect speed that arenÆt stacking nerfed towards each other, resulting in phenomenal speed that in turn results in near invulnerability. At the office we refer to this as ôludicrous speedö.

---

Originally by: Ademaro Imre

---

Quote:

---

Currently weÆve got a number of different systems that affect speed that arenÆt stacking nerfed towards each other, resulting in phenomenal speed that in turn results in near invulnerability. At the office we refer to this as ôludicrous speedö.

---

---

Originally by: Derek Sigres

---

Originally by: BABARR

---

Yes the falcon is a pain,and more since CCP boosted the ECM target jammer strenght from 10 to 20% where NOBODY ask for this boost !

---

It was 15% - 20%. The reasoning was that the combat oriented Recon (The Rook) had better jamming ability in every respect (lock times/range/jammer strength) than the ewar oriented Recon (the Falcon)

---

Originally by: Erok Starbringer

---

I am a Dedicated Falcon pilot
I have Recon trained to 4 only and all the jamming related skills to 4 or 5, My current setup gives me 212km optimal with 37km falloff and 12.2 jam strength (all I use is 6 Racials and a Sensor booster with range script in mids).

I have done both small gang and fleet pvp in it and can tell you without hesitation it is not as overpowered as you might think-
It dies very quick. Took an Ishtar secs to tear through me with drones the other day(even though I had him Jammed) the min I decloaked to join the fight. Can't recloak when the drones lock you, I warped away with 37% structure and it was dumb luck I lived. It does not perma jam BS which can insta pop you, nor can it perma jam BC or Cruisers in actual small gang pvp when your running around systems you can't always get to 200km, usually your at a little over 100km if you need to engage quick.
Anyone who thinks Falcons are overpowered should try them in combat first, they are a death trap, and all the ships that can kill you can't be perma jammed. So what you can perma Jam frigates (save the drone users and FoF missile boats)

After 3mil sps in electronics damnit I should be able to perma jam frigates... ohh and HAHAHAHA on your Nano invincability getting shut down.

BTW if some IS perma jamming you in a Falcon it's because they fitted there ship to perma jam your Races specific ships (by fitting SEVERAL Race Specific mods), AND you didn't fit a counter- Paper Rock Scissors bro

---

Quote:

---

You people whine a lot. Wah Wah Wah....Mommy the bad Falcon man is touching me!

---

Originally by: ZigZag Joe

---

falcon needs to go back to 10% strength bonus (as opposed to scorps 15% and rooks 20%)

/thread

---

Originally by: Xiaodown
The problem with the falcon is that there's no effective counter to it's range except small, fast ships, which are going away with the next nerf. No other recon ship requires you to fit "anti-ewar modules" to combat it, but you say to counter the falcon, fit ECCM. No other recon ship can do anything that can shut down your ship's ability to fight at more than 30 or so KM (tracking disruptors and NOS, i guess, but even then, you can still fight depending on what you're in). You should not have to look at your ship fit, and go "Oh, and I need the anti-falcon module" and stick an ECCM on it, just like you don't look at it and say "Oh, i need the anti-damp module", or the "anti-tracking disrupt module", or (heavens forbid) the "anti-target painter module".

---

Most pvp ships fit a sensor booster which is a counter to sensor damps. Practically all sniper fit HAC or Battleships fit a tracking computer which when scripted can counter a tracking disrupter.
The minmitaar Titan counters the Target Painter module I think (- to sig rad)as well as a gang mod <Evasive manouvers>

Falcons coming through a gate are vulnerable so saying a falcon well setup and prepared for you is a moot point. Dont let them dictate the battlefield.

Im not sure why people are saying falcon has no or few counters when it clearly has a list as long as my arm.

1. Snipe ships
2. ECCM fitted ships
3. Fast Ships
4. E/War ships
5. Planning (a Falcon 20KM from a gate is suprisingly fragile)

The only real point in this thread is that we need a module to reduce signature radius that isnt a titan or a gang mod (maybe a new use for the nanofiber or a similar low slot mod)
Other than that the Falcon is a weak single role ship that performs well at its chosen task, it cant tackle or do dps so it is balanced.

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

---

Originally by: Miss Rumpelstilzchen

---

well lets see why the falcon are overpowerd...
with the coming nano nerf, no ship is able to get in fast to kill it (ceptors have to less dmg, insta jamm form the falcon)

---

Originally by: General Paul

---

1. Snipe ships
2. ECCM fitted ships
3. Fast Ships
4. E/War ships
5. Planning (a Falcon 20KM from a gate is suprisingly fragile)

---

Originally by: Ynos Fukse

---

Edited by: Ynos Fukse on 30/07/2008 09:55:13

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

---

DO YOU F&*^ THINK ccp will nerf a ship cose u say so???? what inssolence!!!

"There should be no ship.." >>> IN WHAT GAME?? cose in EVE we have!!!

YOU DONT LIKE THE GAME? dont play it! or dont make stupid topiks anymore..

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Nope. But CCP DOES nerf ships when enough people whine about it on the forums as proven by the nano nerf.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 30/07/2008 15:27:38

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Nope. But CCP DOES nerf ships when enough people whine about it on the forums as proven by the nano nerf.

---

Wow great logic. "THE WHINE HAS TAKEN MY PRECIOUS 8XHEATSINK GEDDON FROM ME, BUUUU"

Just because people whine about something doesn't mean it is not justified.

On topic: All cloaking recons need a nerf.

---

Originally by: ZigZag Joe

---

falcon needs to go back to 10% strength bonus (as opposed to scorps 15% and rooks 20%)

/thread

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Not exactly sure what youw ere trying to say with the first part of that post but I totally dont understand the second. You think ALL cloaking recons need a nerf??? If you think the arazu is overpowered I have to seriously question you sanity.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: Ademaro Imre

---

Quote:

---

Currently weÆve got a number of different systems that affect speed that arenÆt stacking nerfed towards each other, resulting in phenomenal speed that in turn results in near invulnerability. At the office we refer to this as ôludicrous speedö.

---

---

I wasnt saying you were wrong, I was saying that I was also correct.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

---

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Not exactly sure what youw ere trying to say with the first part of that post but I totally dont understand the second. You think ALL cloaking recons need a nerf??? If you think the arazu is overpowered I have to seriously question you sanity.

---

My point is: There is no good reason not to pick the cloaking version. The force recons obsolete the combat recons. That is a problem beside the fact of other balance issues.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

ITT: Pilgrim is better than Curse!

Oh wait, it's not! It's failboat extreme! And let's ll remind ourselves why that is?

Because it didn't get it's range bonus.

Hey, my IronymeterÖ just melted.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: Ademaro Imre

---

Quote:

---

Currently weÆve got a number of different systems that affect speed that arenÆt stacking nerfed towards each other, resulting in phenomenal speed that in turn results in near invulnerability. At the office we refer to this as ôludicrous speedö.

---

---

I wasnt saying you were wrong, I was saying that I was also correct.

---

You were also promising that you'd "never say another word about falcons" if damp range was increased to 150Km. And I posted that 150Km+ is already achievable on TQ right now.

What about your promise?

Just to remind you:

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

---

T2 Damps can reach out to [Optimal = 30Km *1.5 *1.2 *1.17] + [Falloff = 60Km *1.5] = 153.18Km on TQ right now

I'll break that down for you:
Long Range Jamming 5 = +50% optimal
Frequency Modulation 5 = +50% falloff
Particle Dispersion Projector x2 = +20% optimal them +17% optimal (stacking penalty).

Now I hold you to your promise to "shut up and never say another word about falcons".

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Not exactly sure what youw ere trying to say with the first part of that post but I totally dont understand the second. You think ALL cloaking recons need a nerf??? If you think the arazu is overpowered I have to seriously question you sanity.

---

My point is: There is no good reason not to pick the cloaking version. The force recons obsolete the combat recons. That is a problem beside the fact of other balance issues.

---

ITT: Pilgrim is better than Curse!

Oh wait, it's not! It's failboat extreme! And let's ll remind ourselves why that is?

Because it didn't get it's range bonus.

Hey, my IronymeterÖ just melted.

---

Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

---

Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 30/07/2008 19:22:12

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Not exactly sure what youw ere trying to say with the first part of that post but I totally dont understand the second. You think ALL cloaking recons need a nerf??? If you think the arazu is overpowered I have to seriously question you sanity.

---

My point is: There is no good reason not to pick the cloaking version. The force recons obsolete the combat recons. That is a problem beside the fact of other balance issues.

---

ITT: Pilgrim is better than Curse!

Oh wait, it's not! It's failboat extreme! And let's ll remind ourselves why that is?

Because it didn't get it's range bonus.

Hey, my IronymeterÖ just melted.

---

Hello at proving his point. The amarr combat recon is used regardless of its inability to warp cloaked. Not the case with the Caldari recons. Give the amarr force recon a range bonus and then it would be equal to the falcon's bonuses. Your ironymeter is a failmeter.

You shouldn't really compare racial force recons with each other anyway though, since they are apples and oranges.

Falcon's effective range is too far, that's the issue. Range or effectiveness, you should have to choose just like damps, just like tracking disruptors.

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Originally by: Ademaro Imre

---

Quote:

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Currently weÆve got a number of different systems that affect speed that arenÆt stacking nerfed towards each other, resulting in phenomenal speed that in turn results in near invulnerability. At the office we refer to this as ôludicrous speedö.

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I wasnt saying you were wrong, I was saying that I was also correct.

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You were also promising that you'd "never say another word about falcons" if damp range was increased to 150Km. And I posted that 150Km+ is already achievable on TQ right now.

What about your promise?

Just to remind you:

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

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Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

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T2 Damps can reach out to [Optimal = 30Km *1.5 *1.2 *1.17] + [Falloff = 60Km *1.5] = 153.18Km on TQ right now

I'll break that down for you:
Long Range Jamming 5 = +50% optimal
Frequency Modulation 5 = +50% falloff
Particle Dispersion Projector x2 = +20% optimal them +17% optimal (stacking penalty).

Now I hold you to your promise to "shut up and never say another word about falcons".

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Ok you caught me. I thought this went without saying but obviously it doesn't. Damps should be EFFECTIVE at 150k.

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Originally by: Aneu Angellus

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

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Please go back to WoW

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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Edited by: Borat Sangdiev on 30/07/2008 19:22:12

Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Ignatious Mei

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Not exactly sure what youw ere trying to say with the first part of that post but I totally dont understand the second. You think ALL cloaking recons need a nerf??? If you think the arazu is overpowered I have to seriously question you sanity.

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My point is: There is no good reason not to pick the cloaking version. The force recons obsolete the combat recons. That is a problem beside the fact of other balance issues.

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ITT: Pilgrim is better than Curse!

Oh wait, it's not! It's failboat extreme! And let's ll remind ourselves why that is?

Because it didn't get it's range bonus.

Hey, my IronymeterÖ just melted.

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Hello at proving his point. The amarr combat recon is used regardless of its inability to warp cloaked. Not the case with the Caldari recons. Give the amarr force recon a range bonus and then it would be equal to the falcon's bonuses. Your ironymeter is a failmeter.

You shouldn't really compare racial force recons with each other anyway though, since they are apples and oranges.

Falcon's effective range is too far, that's the issue. Range or effectiveness, you should have to choose just like damps, just like tracking disruptors.

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highlighted for self contradiction.

So anyway, if you're stripping the rook/falcon's range bonus, what are you proposing to replace it with? You've dodged this question from me twice already but now I think it's time, little troll, for you to man up or shut up. The Falcon and Rook have the best EW of the recons because all their bonuses are applied to their EW. If you're proposing to take that away, what will they get to match the web/scram/capwar ability that the other recons get?

(Or do you just want whatever you don't fly to be nerfed?)

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

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Originally by: aak88

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Originally by: Borat Sangdiev

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There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it.

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"waahh, i died to a Falcon in a smal gang nerf them!!" Give me a break. As a Caldari we have ecm, and missiles. Oh and rail sniping eagle/rokh. That's what we have to work with for pvp. I've seen several good counters to Falcons...but you seem not to care. Let me reiterate(sp?) them for you.

Sniping: missiles or rails. I've been in small gangs with ravens and stealth bombers and I know they can kill Falcons with ease.
other recons: I've witnessed a Arazu killing a falcon.
Interceptors: I fly a crow and get in range + have gang warp to me and kill falcon with no problem.

I eagerly await these noob posts every day. "I got ganked by nanos nerf them. I got ganked by a sniper, reduce optimal range. Heavy drones are overpowered nerf!!" You guys are rediculous.

Instead of complaining about ships you die to because you fail...maybe we should all join forces and complain about something that actually needs fixing, like lag!!

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Originally by: supr3m3justic3

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Ignatious Mei

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Ignatious Mei

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Originally by: Ademaro Imre

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Quote:

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Currently weÆve got a number of different systems that affect speed that arenÆt stacking nerfed towards each other, resulting in phenomenal speed that in turn results in near invulnerability. At the office we refer to this as ôludicrous speedö.

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I wasnt saying you were wrong, I was saying that I was also correct.

---

You were also promising that you'd "never say another word about falcons" if damp range was increased to 150Km. And I posted that 150Km+ is already achievable on TQ right now.

What about your promise?

Just to remind you:

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

---

T2 Damps can reach out to [Optimal = 30Km *1.5 *1.2 *1.17] + [Falloff = 60Km *1.5] = 153.18Km on TQ right now

I'll break that down for you:
Long Range Jamming 5 = +50% optimal
Frequency Modulation 5 = +50% falloff
Particle Dispersion Projector x2 = +20% optimal them +17% optimal (stacking penalty).

Now I hold you to your promise to "shut up and never say another word about falcons".

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Ok you caught me. I thought this went without saying but obviously it doesn't. Damps should be EFFECTIVE at 150k.

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You have a 50% chance per damp of damping a BS - or a Falcon - at 153Km. That's as good as my chance of ECMing him at that range. With 2 damps on your range-rigged Arazu, you can effectively keep a falcon out of a fight almost all the time, and if he gets careless or you get lucky and you get within 50Km, you can kill him; which is much more than the falcon can do to you. After you've made the falcon warp a couple of times you should be able to get an idea of where his BMs are and ambush him.

I will hold you to your promise, I think.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Ignatious Mei

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Originally by: Ademaro Imre

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Quote:

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Currently weÆve got a number of different systems that affect speed that arenÆt stacking nerfed towards each other, resulting in phenomenal speed that in turn results in near invulnerability. At the office we refer to this as ôludicrous speedö.

---

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I wasnt saying you were wrong, I was saying that I was also correct.

---

You were also promising that you'd "never say another word about falcons" if damp range was increased to 150Km. And I posted that 150Km+ is already achievable on TQ right now.

What about your promise?

Just to remind you:

Originally by: Ignatious Mei

---

Increase damp range to 150k and I will shut up and never say another word about falcons.

---

T2 Damps can reach out to [Optimal = 30Km *1.5 *1.2 *1.17] + [Falloff = 60Km *1.5] = 153.18Km on TQ right now

I'll break that down for you:
Long Range Jamming 5 = +50% optimal
Frequency Modulation 5 = +50% falloff
Particle Dispersion Projector x2 = +20% optimal them +17% optimal (stacking penalty).

Now I hold you to your promise to "shut up and never say another word about falcons".

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Originally by: Rawr Cristina

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IMO:

The Falcon only needs a nerf ATM because it makes the Rook obselete.

Otherwise, they really arn't terribly overpowered. Falcons have to be introduced at the right time into a fight to really be effective; Too soon and enemies may simply disengage, too late and they won't make a difference anyway.

Really, Falcons are very situational. They can be strong and they can be forced off the field by a single 'ceptor (or popped by a sniper) all depends on how you set up.

I'll argue that ECCM needs a boost of some kind, however, to give more incentive to fit them. (Or adding it as a script to sensor boosters instead, but lowering it's power)

In a lot of RR BS gangs I've been in, fitting 2xECCM instead of Point/Web (and letting smaller ships do tackling) was extremely common practice as it essentially made them immune to jamming; they laughed whenever a Falcon decloaked and began redboxing them.

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