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Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.08.02 10:32:00 - [361] I was under the impression they are trying not to introduce any ships that would strictly outdo battlesthips. I guess there should be one exception and it should be caldari and it should have cloak.
Lossy Lucy	Posted - 2008.08.02 11:03:00 - [362] Originally by: Forge Lag I was under the impression they are trying not to introduce any ships that would strictly outdo battlesthips. I guess there should be one exception and it should be caldari and it should have cloak. Would you care to elaborate further? A Falcon outdoes a BS at jamming sure but what other areas does it outdo them in? I mean you'd never argue that intie's should'nt outdo BS's at tackling stuff would you?
Emperor Ryan Amarr Imperial Syndicate Forces	Posted - 2008.08.02 11:47:00 - [363] Originally by: Borat Sangdiev Originally by: Malcanis Out of interest, perhaps some Amarr pilot can tell me what DPS a Tachyon II fitted Apoc can get at 220Km or so? oh ffs. no one brings a tachyon fitted apoc to a small roaming gang. get real. And Borat You stand Corrected, and i'll post on My main too. My Corp Takes This into Account, In our Roaming Gangs We Have Bookmarks all Around, We tend to have 1 Or tach T2 Fitted Apcos With a Few Bookmarks around Stations and Gates, As well as a Falcon/scorp For Jamming, We have our wonderful t2 Megepulse abaddons and Gank Mega's Up close and some Pilgrims around who of course due to there range are close ranged to. But we do Account for anything. If someone comes to attack our snipers. out other sniper or jammer can cover them. because we think Logicialy. We could Run into ANYTHING why not be Prepared for it. I know some med slots dont need to fitted with a webber in a Gang of 10-20 Which is what we roam with. So we Have ECCM where its Viable, And i have to Say it works Brilliantly. With smaller gangs it was nanoed so if shit hit the fan we'd get out. But The disadvantage to using a Small gang is Just that. Your small. You cant Prep for everything. Most people will say " ECCM why bother lets fit a sensor booster, Its a Choice. You don't expect to run into a Falcon, If you do. Tough shit. This is Pvp. If you dont have Intel you Guess. In War, its the same. If your infantry men don't know they are going to run into tanks. They wont find out until its blasting them to death. If they know, they could counter it, Mines etc (oldschool war by the way) because this is how it was for some of my Family who were in war, You cant Prepare for everything. You just prepare for what you think you will Engage. You are asking to nerf Falcons. I honesty Don't want to play a game where i can make a setup that will Survue...Anything and be prepared for anything. That ruins the fun.
Octaviun Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.08.02 16:29:00 - [364] Edited by: Octaviun on 02/08/2008 16:29:53 most of you people typing all this crap probably haven't even fought a battle when have you fought a falcon 1v1? most times they fly in a group with other classes of ship heads up the falcon isn't a solopwnmobile it needs others to actually do something it can't kill anything only help. anything running at a falcon and most times it will run away once its locked and fails to jam you. _________________________________________________
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:14:00 - [365] Originally by: Sconitta Originally by: Profitteroles Edited by: Profitteroles on 01/08/2008 17:21:13 The way i see it is that when a falcon undocks it has one purpose and one purpose only, to jam. All of the falcons mid, low and rig slots are used to increase its range and strength, thats 12 fitting slots used to achieve that so why should it be so easy to counter. It doesnt need nerfing if you want to counter it fit a ship to do that with the same dedication a falcon does to jam you. sounds like the defence the nano guys used see were that got them QFT. And we do know what is about to happen to nano's. Same will eventually happen to falcons. Anyone who claims the BEST counter against falcons ARENT falcons is lieing. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:15:00 - [366] Originally by: Celedris Originally by: Ephemeron The falcon is definitely the most powerful EW ship in game - my alt flies one, got plenty of experience. I would support a slight nerf for it, like take off 5% from the ECM strength bonus. However, I don't think it's a good idea to let CCP touch it. Given all past experience with CCP nerfing (sensor damps, NOS), do you really want to make falcons worthless? There's no middle ground here. Either we have slightly overpowered falcons, or CCP make them completely useless. What is the lesser of 2 evils? Dead on. Falcons could use a bit of a nerf but if CCP ever looks at them again they will probably just be nerfed so hard that they won't even be worth flying. CCP has atrociously bad game balance developers so I really can't advocate re-balancing any game mechanic in any way at this point in time. It's better to leave broken stuff in game as is than let out CCP Nozh again with his whirling nerf cavalcade of apocalyptic doom. They will prolly be worth flying but you see eve people dont fly stuff that isnt THE best. That is why there are so many QQing at every nerf. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Alt altski	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:24:00 - [367] Originally by: SereneSally Originally by: Aneu Angellus They are called ECCM Modules... USE THEM Oh stop - no one really fits ECCM mods as a general setup I fitted 2 on my tempest and sacrificed my web in a small fight i still got jammed before i could get my lock back the whole fight when overloading .. they had 1 falcon. Yes i was the biggest ship so they had to jam me to win but seriously .. fitting 2 counters to ONLY stop being jammed and still not able to keep a lock to do damage IS overpowered.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.02 21:48:00 - [368] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Sconitta Originally by: Profitteroles Edited by: Profitteroles on 01/08/2008 17:21:13 The way i see it is that when a falcon undocks it has one purpose and one purpose only, to jam. All of the falcons mid, low and rig slots are used to increase its range and strength, thats 12 fitting slots used to achieve that so why should it be so easy to counter. It doesnt need nerfing if you want to counter it fit a ship to do that with the same dedication a falcon does to jam you. sounds like the defence the nano guys used see were that got them QFT. And we do know what is about to happen to nano's. Same will eventually happen to falcons. Anyone who claims the BEST counter against falcons ARENT falcons is lieing. A falcon is hardly the best coutner for a falcon. Why? Because it takes 2 jammers to reliably jam a falcon out of a battle for long (those things have better sensor strength than battleships afterall). This is why virtually EVERY falcon pilot (or scorpion for that matter) carries 2x caldari racial jammers. You have PLENTY of options for killing falcons available: snipe it for example. I know, I know this is an unreasonble scenario because you all can't be bothered to have somebody come along with a fitting to counter a ship. Two HAC's are well suited to the task (cerberus and Eagle) - both can engage at the falcon's native ranges and deliver enough DPS to drive them from the field in short order. Stealth Bombers can alpha strike falcons in 3 volleys - meaning that 3 stealth bombers can instapop a single falcon. If you use your cloak to move within 70km or so, the falcon probably won't have time to register the threat AND warp before the missiles slam home. This is probably my favorite tactic because it works pretty wonderfully and gives you a reason to fly those 15million ISK glass cannons.
Angry Sam	Posted - 2008.08.02 23:43:00 - [369] I wish there was a mod that would prevent the jamming potential of the falcon .... hmmmm .... wait there is. Its called ECCM. Learn to adapt or lose your ship. Also, falcons have 2 advantages, cloaking and jamming. They have 0 dps / 0 tank / and 0 speed. If falcon is in range then it is dead. As for the arazu comparison, the damps work 100% of the time while jamming is chance based. I would say boost range of arazu if damps are chanced base.
Xiaodown XERCORE	Posted - 2008.08.02 23:47:00 - [370] Originally by: Blancanieves Edited by: Blancanieves on 01/08/2008 18:50:46 Nerfing range would not do much... 1) Rook and even Blackbird have the same range as a Falcon, Blackbird even more with three rigs (you'll need more sensor boosters to get the targeting range, but it's possible). So if you nerf the Falcon's range, nerf them all. One of these can fly cloaked. As I've said before, A.) Equal effectiveness 0-160km B.) Extremely powerful Electronic Warfare C.) Ability to fly cloaked Pick any two. All three together are overpowered. Quote: 2) You only need ONE ship to close in to the Falcon to get it or make it run away, the others can just warp onto the fast ship when it's there, regardless if it is jammed or not. There are still ships that are fast enough for that, i.e., exactly the ships designed for it: Interceptors. Remember that you can fit for raw speed as you don't need any agility for this job. This works when interceptors go 15,000m/s. When interceptors go 3,000 m/s, this will no longer work. The falcon will see the ship coming, disengage, and cloak / warp off, and warp to another spot 100km from the gang. Interceptors will still be "fast" post-nerf, but they won't actually fast unless you theory-craft (Gist X-type, domi overdrives, T2 polys, HG snakes, strong X-instinct, claymore in system). Without all that crap, the interceptor will be slow, and the falcon will have plenty of time to disengage with zero risk and warp out. Quote: 3) With the speed nerf it might be even smarter for the ECM pilot to warp to engage from a distance of under 150km - it will be safer than before, because not so many ships will be able to cross that distance quickly, and if one makes it, the others can't warp to him. Right, because if a falcon is at 140km, there's a magical barrier stopping the interceptor from going further and having gang members warp at 20. Actually, does this work? Now that I think about it, if a gang member is 149km away, you can't warp to him, but if he's 151km away, can you warp to him at things other than 0? I.e. can you warp to him at 20km? ~X -- Sig under construction.

Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.02 23:50:00 - [371] While you have a point buried in there, saying interceptors will only be going 3km/s is exaggerating a bit to say the least. Your average ceptor will be quite faster than that post patch.
Blancanieves Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations	Posted - 2008.08.03 12:16:00 - [372] Originally by: Angry Sam As for the arazu comparison, the damps work 100% of the time while jamming is chance based. I would say boost range of arazu if damps are chanced base. This is already implemented and it's called Falloff. -
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.03 13:21:00 - [373] Originally by: Angry Sam I wish there was a mod that would prevent the jamming potential of the falcon .... hmmmm .... wait there is. Its called ECCM. Learn to adapt or lose your ship. Also, falcons have 2 advantages, cloaking and jamming. They have 0 dps / 0 tank / and 0 speed. If falcon is in range then it is dead. As for the arazu comparison, the damps work 100% of the time while jamming is chance based. I would say boost range of arazu if damps are chanced base. Sorry you fail at eve. The problem is that THE BEST counter to a falcon is A FALCON. NOT ECCM. Mkay? It is the exact same problem with nano gangs. To counter and kill another nano gang you just get MORE nanos and kill them. They have 5 falcons? You bring 10 falcons and you win. Why bother with anything else when that is the most effective way? THAT IS NOT BALANCED. Get it into your head. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Borg9	Posted - 2008.08.03 14:02:00 - [374] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Angry Sam I wish there was a mod that would prevent the jamming potential of the falcon .... hmmmm .... wait there is. Its called ECCM. Learn to adapt or lose your ship. Also, falcons have 2 advantages, cloaking and jamming. They have 0 dps / 0 tank / and 0 speed. If falcon is in range then it is dead. As for the arazu comparison, the damps work 100% of the time while jamming is chance based. I would say boost range of arazu if damps are chanced base. Sorry you fail at eve. The problem is that THE BEST counter to a falcon is A FALCON. NOT ECCM. Mkay? It is the exact same problem with nano gangs. To counter and kill another nano gang you just get MORE nanos and kill them. They have 5 falcons? You bring 10 falcons and you win. Why bother with anything else when that is the most effective way? THAT IS NOT BALANCED. Get it into your head. Nope u fail at Eve, Angry Sam had it right, adapt or die. A gang with good tactics would primary a falcon and melt it in about 2 volleys..your gang prolly goes for the primary damage dealer and gets jammed wich is your fault. Ur respond..," Waaaaaaaa, but I dont want to give up a midslot to stop from being jamd. Why should I adapt when I can just come on the forum and whine waaaaaaaa." God u ppl are the reason for the nano nerf.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.03 15:01:00 - [375] Originally by: Borg9 Nope u fail at Eve, Angry Sam had it right, adapt or die. A gang with good tactics would primary a falcon and melt it in about 2 volleys..your gang prolly goes for the primary damage dealer and gets jammed wich is your fault. Ur respond..," Waaaaaaaa, but I dont want to give up a midslot to stop from being jamd. Why should I adapt when I can just come on the forum and whine waaaaaaaa." God u ppl are the reason for the nano nerf. Sorry thats not how it works on TQ. Its a shame I dont meet leet pvpers like yourself that have a great theoretical counters that dont actually work, Id be killing you all day. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.08.03 17:17:00 - [376] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Borg9 Nope u fail at Eve, Angry Sam had it right, adapt or die. A gang with good tactics would primary a falcon and melt it in about 2 volleys..your gang prolly goes for the primary damage dealer and gets jammed wich is your fault. Ur respond..," Waaaaaaaa, but I dont want to give up a midslot to stop from being jamd. Why should I adapt when I can just come on the forum and whine waaaaaaaa." God u ppl are the reason for the nano nerf. Sorry thats not how it works on TQ. Its a shame I dont meet leet pvpers like yourself that have a great theoretical counters that dont actually work, Id be killing you all day. They work fine for me and countless others. Fit remote multi spec ECCM onto a few ships and you will have no issues with any ECM ships.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.03 19:43:00 - [377] Originally by: baltec1 They work fine for me and countless others. Fit remote multi spec ECCM onto a few ships and you will have no issues with any ECM ships. Sorry but have you actually done that? Im pretty sure you havent, it does not work. And if you still claim to have done it, Id like you do explain in detail how it works. Will be intresting to see that bluff. Besides, no one in their right mind would try to fit their whole fleet with eccm mids just because they might face falcons. Good fleets bring enough of their OWN FALCONS. That is the most effective way of dealing with ecm. END OF STORY. You cant convince anyone that there is a better way, because there isnt. You either will lie or you are clueless about how combat actually works in eve. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Blancanieves Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations	Posted - 2008.08.03 21:59:00 - [378] Originally by: Xiaodown Originally by: Blancanieves Quote: 3) With the speed nerf it might be even smarter for the ECM pilot to warp to engage from a distance of under 150km - it will be safer than before, because not so many ships will be able to cross that distance quickly, and if one makes it, the others can't warp to him. Right, because if a falcon is at 140km, there's a magical barrier stopping the interceptor from going further and having gang members warp at 20. Actually, does this work? Now that I think about it, if a gang member is 149km away, you can't warp to him, but if he's 151km away, can you warp to him at things other than 0? I.e. can you warp to him at 20km? You're right, it would work, didn't think of that (you can warp to a point 200km away "to 100" and land 100km away from your current position). It would be a bit tricky to accomplish though without decreasing the speed too much. Btw., and Interceptor that went 15km/s before the nerf will still easily go 6/7+km/s after the nerf. if not more. There is still no stacking penalty between implants, gang mods and speed mods after the nerf (apart from nanofibers&polys), only the individual boni have been decreased. Actually, the fittings that suffer the least from the nerf are the most inexpensive fittings. I also think that a Falcon pilot can see a 15km/s Inty soon enough to disengage and warp off, the same as with a slower Inty. And with every time he leaves a 200km bookmark, this bookmark becomes invalid (if the enemy is not too dumb) and he needs a new one, which he can only have by good preparation or by spending much time warping in and out cloaked while being useless for his gang. The high range comes with a great cost, it's not a free gift as suggested by your A/B/C pick two list. -
Blancanieves Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations	Posted - 2008.08.03 22:21:00 - [379] Edited by: Blancanieves on 03/08/2008 22:21:27 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Besides, no one in their right mind would try to fit their whole fleet with eccm mids just because they might face falcons. Good fleets bring enough of their OWN FALCONS. That is the most effective way of dealing with ecm. END OF STORY. You cant convince anyone that there is a better way, because there isnt. You either will lie or you are clueless about how combat actually works in eve. This is not true in principle, because 1.) A Falcon has only a certain chance to jam another Falcon. This chance is always below one, depending on the number of Caldari jammers and if the opposing Falcon has ECCM or not. Furthermore, the opposing Falcon might well jam your own "Anti-Falcon". So bringing your own Falcon is not a failsafe way to deal with other Falcons. It has a certain chance to do so. You can stochastically compute the probability of each of your ships being jammed with or without bringing your own Falcon. 2.) An ECCM mod increases the chance not to be jammed by the opposing Falcon. It is not failsafe either, because the chance to jam is never zero. But it has a certain chance to do so. You can also stochastically compute the probability of each of your ships being jammed with or without bringing ECCM (first will be equal to the first probability mentioned in 1.). 3.) In approach 2. you can decrease the probability of your ships being jammed by increasing the bonus of ECCM modules. Thus you can reach a game balance state in which the probability of your ships being jammed in approach 2. is lower than the probability in approach 1. In such a state, you are wrong. So, because I did not do the number crunching (I'm not so good at stochastics), the question remains: What is the current game balance state? Which probability is higher, 1. or 2.? This is a question which should be answered by the developers, followed by an appropriate ECCM boost, if necessary. Edited for grammar. -
Chr0nosX Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.08.03 22:36:00 - [380] Originally by: Blancanieves This is not true in principle, because 1.) A Falcon has only a certain chance to jam another Falcon. This chance is always below one, depending on the number of Caldari jammers and if the opposing Falcon has ECCM or not. Furthermore, the opposing Falcon might well jam your own "Anti-Falcon". So bringing your own Falcon is not a failsafe way to deal with other Falcons. It has a certain chance to do so. You can stochastically compute the probability of each of your ships being jammed with or without bringing your own Falcon. 2.) An ECCM mod increases the chance not to be jammed by the opposing Falcon. It is not failsafe either, because the chance to jam is never zero. But it has a certain chance to do so. You can also stochastically compute the probability of each of your ships being jammed with or without bringing ECCM (first will be equal to the first probability mentioned in 1.). 3.) In approach 2. you can decrease the probability of your ships being jammed by increasing the bonus of ECCM modules. Thus you can reach a game balance state in which the probability of your ships being jammed in approach 2. is lower than the probability in approach 1. In such a state, you are wrong. So, because I did not do the number crunching (I'm not so good at stochastics), the question remains: What is the current game balance state? Which probability is higher, 1. or 2.? This is a question which should be answered by the developers, followed by an appropriate ECCM boost, if necessary. Edited for grammar. You bring your own falcon it is useful in itself not just for countering ecm like eccm. Also if you let the other guys falcon decloak first you can decloak and jam him. P.S. Using long words does not make you look clever.

Runner647	Posted - 2008.08.04 03:36:00 - [381] Are we crying about EW again ? What you have to actually think about how you play now that your "FPS" EVE is gone. EW has been nerfed some many times in the almost 5 years i have been playing its not funny. I remember when a BlackBird could jamm like a Falcon, and Scorpion was to be "feared". Now they are both second rate ships at best. Go cry somewhere else, or train Falcons yourself. Can I have your stuff too ?
reivol	Posted - 2008.08.04 05:54:00 - [382] For all of you, that wanted to nerf falcon and saying it's the same as nerfing nano, please ask yourselves : - have you ever seen a gang full of falcon ? - have you ever seen a solo falcon hunting in belts ? The problem with nano was that they can do many things at one time : - they can do great dps - while avoiding every damage for every other kind of ships (but one or two) - while being able to dictate range - while being able to choose it's target - while being able to flee away if wanted to - they can fly and hunt solo - they're mandatory in a any gang (even being better than inty's) - they can cross even the most large hostile camp without a sweat Falcon, in the other hand, does only one thing, but does it great : jamming .. and no other ships are better at jamming than falcons Yes that's right, but that's not a reason to nerf it Or you'll have to nerf logistics too, because no other ship can be better at repping than logistics And you'll have to nerf titan too, because no other ship can be better at wiping an entire fleet And you'll have to nerf hulks too, because no other ship can be better at mining ... Well, of course, roids haven't access to this forum, have they ? so they can't whine and say how they haven't any counter to hulks and dies horribly fast as soon as a hulk enter a system ... and please, learn, perma-jamming is not a reality, not by far... Perhaps one falcon can jam 90% of the time one other ship, yes, if it's lucky ... so disabling only one other ship in the hostile fleet, but then, the falcon itself serve no other purpose and so in terms of dps warfare he is kind of disabled too ...
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.04 08:40:00 - [383] Originally by: Chr0nosX Originally by: Blancanieves This is not true in principle, because 1.) A Falcon has only a certain chance to jam another Falcon. This chance is always below one, depending on the number of Caldari jammers and if the opposing Falcon has ECCM or not. Furthermore, the opposing Falcon might well jam your own "Anti-Falcon". So bringing your own Falcon is not a failsafe way to deal with other Falcons. It has a certain chance to do so. You can stochastically compute the probability of each of your ships being jammed with or without bringing your own Falcon. 2.) An ECCM mod increases the chance not to be jammed by the opposing Falcon. It is not failsafe either, because the chance to jam is never zero. But it has a certain chance to do so. You can also stochastically compute the probability of each of your ships being jammed with or without bringing ECCM (first will be equal to the first probability mentioned in 1.). 3.) In approach 2. you can decrease the probability of your ships being jammed by increasing the bonus of ECCM modules. Thus you can reach a game balance state in which the probability of your ships being jammed in approach 2. is lower than the probability in approach 1. In such a state, you are wrong. So, because I did not do the number crunching (I'm not so good at stochastics), the question remains: What is the current game balance state? Which probability is higher, 1. or 2.? This is a question which should be answered by the developers, followed by an appropriate ECCM boost, if necessary. Edited for grammar. You bring your own falcon it is useful in itself not just for countering ecm like eccm. Also if you let the other guys falcon decloak first you can decloak and jam him. P.S. Using long words does not make you look clever. QFT. THIS is exactly the point falcon-fans always try to avoid. The falcon itself is a GREAT asset while an ECCM is NOT. No fleet command will equip his fleet with ECCM instead of just bringing more falcons as ECM defense. Anyone who claims otherwise is a moron. True story. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.04 08:41:00 - [384] Originally by: Runner647 Go cry somewhere else, or train Falcons yourself. Dont worry we all have falcon alts including myself. Still doesnt change the fact that it needs a nerf. Failed arguments. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
o0TuNa0o Idle Miners	Posted - 2008.08.04 11:02:00 - [385] ECM ships are fine. Move on..
Uzuki Shootmenow	Posted - 2008.08.04 11:11:00 - [386] no, they're not fine, because my 2m SP super pvp char can't kill them, and IM A PAYING CUSTOMER!!!! NERF IT OTHERWISE I CANT HAVE ANY SATISFACTION PLAYING THIS GAME, NANO FALCONS EVERYWHERE ****ing crybabies
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.04 12:26:00 - [387] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Runner647 Go cry somewhere else, or train Falcons yourself. Dont worry we all have falcon alts including myself. Still doesnt change the fact that it needs a nerf. Failed arguments. I'm fairly convinced that people will never be happy until ECCM makes them immune to ECM. I understand that many ships are shy on the slots requried for such contrivances, and people don't want to sacrifice a slot if they aren't sure it's gong to help them. I still don't see why there seems to be resistance making ECCM into a sensor booster script. The problem with ECCM isn't that it doesn't work (because it does and anyone who denys this should file bug reports regarding disfunctional modules) it's that it only does one function and the rest of the time sits there being entirely useless. If it's a SB script at least you can swap over to lockrange/lock time when there are no jammers about. I still don't think this will satisfy many people, but at least I could say "If you can't find a place to fit a module that increases locking range, time and sensor strength you aren't trying very hard"
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.04 14:15:00 - [388] Originally by: Derek Sigres I'm fairly convinced that people will never be happy until ECCM makes them immune to ECM. That has nothing to do with it. If the BEST counter to a certain ship is the ship itself then it is broken. There is no way you can convince anyone that fitting eccm is BETTER then just bringing your OWN falcon. It just isnt. End of story. And it will get nerfed. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:40:00 - [389] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Derek Sigres I'm fairly convinced that people will never be happy until ECCM makes them immune to ECM. That has nothing to do with it. If the BEST counter to a certain ship is the ship itself then it is broken. There is no way you can convince anyone that fitting eccm is BETTER then just bringing your OWN falcon. It just isnt. End of story. And it will get nerfed. R u special or somethin? What part of your wakkadoo mind do you think its even remotely sensible to equate a module to a ship in the sense that 1 is better than the other when selecting capabilities?? Ok lets break it down primitive style for you Captain Stupid, 1 module or many modules? who wins???? So how are you going to say Ok now that we got that over and next question. Why do you feel your fail analysis "If the BEST counter to a certain ship is the ship itself then it is broken" is the end all be all of game mechanics mantra? The ECM has a percentage chance of jamming its target based on skillz and target type. ECCM decreases that chance. Neither is absolute. Obviously bringing your own EWAR ship is a good start towards FITTING A BALANCED FLEET. not introducing game breaking mechanics you're a complete nubcake
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:59:00 - [390] 20 seconds is a v long time to be jammed for imho.



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