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Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.08.01 02:03:00 - [331] Originally by: Borat Sangdiev I've been in 0.0 for 2 years and most recently pvp in empire, wardeccing etc. Sniping BS are not brought for non blob fleet fights. Sorry mate. Let me try to understand your logic here: 1) You say falcons are a big problem. 2) There is a counter, a sniper battleship 3) You think that it would be a waste to bring one of those in your gang Based on this I conclude that falcons are not really a problem. If they were such a big problem you would always bring their counter. If you think that it is not worth it, then the only possible conclusions are: 1) They are not so dangerous. 2) You are being stubborn and stupid. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Elise Randolph Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.08.01 03:55:00 - [332] Falcons are perfectly fine, nerf them in a year and a half pls ---------- I need a good sig, someone make one for me.
Alexi Fenko	Posted - 2008.08.01 04:18:00 - [333] ooo hi elise! I just got lvl 5 falcon skills across the board, yaaaaaaaay, now I go laugh at jdoks gimped ishtar
aak88 Caldari CORE Elements Tread Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.01 04:18:00 - [334] Originally by: Blancanieves Did anyone realize that this thread is 12 pages long, with a minimum of 5 posts of the same person on each page. Totals to 60 posts of a really frustrated man. Poor him. Just give him back his WTFBBQPWNSOLO-Vagabond so he shuts up. AMEN!
Upright Amarr Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2008.08.01 05:16:00 - [335] Edited by: Upright on 01/08/2008 05:17:21 Originally by: Eigof Tahr Edited by: Eigof Tahr on 31/07/2008 23:31:25 Proposed change: Change target jammed times from 20s to 5s and jammers cycle to 5s. Also add damp range bonus to gallente recons. Honestly Eigof i think ur even being to harsh on the falcon. (But i dont fly them, so not the best opinion here.) The damp range bonus for Gallente recons sounds good. But the change in cycle time would be dam harsh wouldnt it? Since you have to keep a target perme jammed wouldnt the decrease in cycle time propse more chance for the jams to fail? I think reducing the opitmal range bonus on the falcon from 20% to 15% per level would help even it out abit. As i dont think its wrong that the falcon can perme jam someone but i think the range at which it can do it, with the upcomming speed nerf is the bigger problem. But hey sure this has already been probably discussed....Im to lazy to read 12 pages
Dendo Ordoss Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.08.01 05:22:00 - [336] nerf ecm range down to 50km and make eccm more usefull
Vokradacka	Posted - 2008.08.01 11:48:00 - [337] one problem.. Now can one falcon jam 1-3 ships at big range...+ 0 dmg 0 tank 0 tackle ab. when you nerf him to 1-2 ships you can remove him at all. Here is no reason why fly ship which can CC only 1-2 other sh.this isnt WoW... maybe smaller nerf +15% jam range /lvl?
Doonoo Boonoo	Posted - 2008.08.01 11:58:00 - [338] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo With its ability to jam from so far away the only counter to a Falcon is another Falcon. Just like CCP claimed the only counter to Nano ships is/was another Nano ship so they are nerfing Nanos/speed. therefore: CCP will Nerf Falcons. Your a liar. The counters to ECM include, but are not limited to; Long range gunships long range missileships Falcons (as you noted) Arazus Fast ships (you don't need to lock to get a falcon killed) ECCM Stealth bombers Dictors (cloaked Flycatcher with FoFs in his cargo is a Falcon-murdering bi*tch) Using your damb brain. I'm speaking from personal experience. I have either lost Falcons (or at least been unable to contribute to the fight) to all of the above. There are multiple, completely different counters available to those with the least idea of how to play. Chill Malc. I was being sarcastic. People posted countless ways to counter Nanos and still CCP nerfed them. With tactics and the right ships anything can be countered. But tactics, planning and specialised fittings don't count when imo all CCP want to do is dumb the game down. My post was a dig at CCP and the whiners.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.08.01 12:30:00 - [339] Attempting to jam an ECCMed Falcon is really not a sensible use of your ECM.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.01 12:55:00 - [340] With the speed nerf it will become even harder to burn for a falcon, wich gives us even more the situation that the only counter to falcons are falcons. They need a good slap with the nerf bat. Gogo. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name

Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:34:00 - [341] If they have a Falcon, you bring a Falcon. Jam the jammer. So easy even a cave man can do it. Get out of my way. I'm liquored up and looking fer love. I support log offs. There's just something about denying free electrons to my computer that appeals to my need for control.
Myra2007 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:48:00 - [342] Edited by: Myra2007 on 01/08/2008 16:50:04 Maybe with the speed nerf it can do with a little (!) less range. But that would be about it. Those ships are nasty and unless i am just sitting in my falcon i hate them and want to kill every one of them. But they are so important for the game. Think remote reps, other ewar, the new scrams, disruptors in general, webs and so forth what you gonna do about it if you can't jam? Of course you might get out of range to evade those effects but its clearly not always possible. ecm is a joker that you can use to avoid the usually inevitable which is good. It makes things less predictable. ECM is the spice of any battle because other then that there isn't much left anymore but using spreadsheets to decide the winner. Okay, that is exaggerated but i think i've made my point. edit: and amazingly you can even use them to counter themselves - jamming another falcon is tricky but i have done it numerous times and it can help a lot
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:01:00 - [343] Originally by: Myra2007 Edited by: Myra2007 on 01/08/2008 16:50:04 Maybe with the speed nerf it can do with a little (!) less range. But that would be about it. Those ships are nasty and unless i am just sitting in my falcon i hate them and want to kill every one of them. But they are so important for the game. Think remote reps, other ewar, the new scrams, disruptors in general, webs and so forth what you gonna do about it if you can't jam? Of course you might get out of range to evade those effects but its clearly not always possible. ecm is a joker that you can use to avoid the usually inevitable which is good. It makes things less predictable. ECM is the spice of any battle because other then that there isn't much left anymore but using spreadsheets to decide the winner. Okay, that is exaggerated but i think i've made my point. edit: and amazingly you can even use them to counter themselves - jamming another falcon is tricky but i have done it numerous times and it can help a lot Well thing is ECM is needed. Because without ecm you wouldnt be able to break rr gangs. Still the ECM range needs to be reconsidered with upcoming speed nerf. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Profitteroles	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:17:00 - [344] Edited by: Profitteroles on 01/08/2008 17:21:13 The way i see it is that when a falcon undocks it has one purpose and one purpose only, to jam. All of the falcons mid, low and rig slots are used to increase its range and strength, thats 12 fitting slots used to achieve that so why should it be so easy to counter. It doesnt need nerfing if you want to counter it fit a ship to do that with the same dedication a falcon does to jam you.
Sconitta Caldari The Movement	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:32:00 - [345] Originally by: Profitteroles Edited by: Profitteroles on 01/08/2008 17:21:13 The way i see it is that when a falcon undocks it has one purpose and one purpose only, to jam. All of the falcons mid, low and rig slots are used to increase its range and strength, thats 12 fitting slots used to achieve that so why should it be so easy to counter. It doesnt need nerfing if you want to counter it fit a ship to do that with the same dedication a falcon does to jam you. sounds like the defence the nano guys used see were that got them - i fixxed Omeega's signature
supr3m3justic3 Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:32:00 - [346] Chill Malc. I was being sarcastic. People posted countless ways to counter Nanos and still CCP nerfed them. With tactics and the right ships anything can be countered. But tactics, planning and specialised fittings don't count when imo all CCP want to do is dumb the game down. My post was a dig at CCP and the whiners. A+ 2 thumbs up.....pretty soon...this game will be like playing Astroids on the Atari!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________________________________________
Profitteroles	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:39:00 - [347] Originally by: Sconitta Originally by: Profitteroles Edited by: Profitteroles on 01/08/2008 17:21:13 The way i see it is that when a falcon undocks it has one purpose and one purpose only, to jam. All of the falcons mid, low and rig slots are used to increase its range and strength, thats 12 fitting slots used to achieve that so why should it be so easy to counter. It doesnt need nerfing if you want to counter it fit a ship to do that with the same dedication a falcon does to jam you. sounds like the defence the nano guys used see were that got them I fully agree with you there ppl would rather just cry nerf than try to counter. The only difference being is that falcons are solely being used for what they were designed for its a one trick pony.
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:33:00 - [348] Im not for nerfing the falcon persay, maybe its range bonus since ECM already have rediculious range. I am for nerfing the str of ECM altogether... since the only ships that can really use it now are the caldari ones, I say make it so when someone uses 12 slots for all those wonderfull goodies they get stacking nerfed all the way. Next you could look at making racial jammers used for only one race, remove the other racials lower value. This would make it harder for falcons to jam since there 4 jammers or whatever would only be good vs. there respective race. I think the ECM is great tool and weapon of its own, but when a falcon can near perma jam my pilgrim with an ECCM fitted I think thats a little on the OPed side. Wanna really nerf something, Nerf CCP. "Hit with the nerfbat CCP can now only adjust 1 constant in the equation at a time"
Blancanieves Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:45:00 - [349] Edited by: Blancanieves on 01/08/2008 18:50:46 Nerfing range would not do much... 1) Rook and even Blackbird have the same range as a Falcon, Blackbird even more with three rigs (you'll need more sensor boosters to get the targeting range, but it's possible). So if you nerf the Falcon's range, nerf them all. 2) You only need ONE ship to close in to the Falcon to get it or make it run away, the others can just warp onto the fast ship when it's there, regardless if it is jammed or not. There are still ships that are fast enough for that, i.e., exactly the ships designed for it: Interceptors. Remember that you can fit for raw speed as you don't need any agility for this job. 3) With the speed nerf it might be even smarter for the ECM pilot to warp to engage from a distance of under 150km - it will be safer than before, because not so many ships will be able to cross that distance quickly, and if one makes it, the others can't warp to him. My 2 cents after this thread is still open :-) [Edit] Btw., Ambrosious, don't overestimate the Falcon's power against a Pilgrim: A very good Falcon pilot has a jammer strength of about 14 with racial jammers. A pilgrim has a sensor strength of 24 and 47 with the best named ECCM. This results in a chance of about 30% to jam the Pilgrim with one Amarr jammer. About 50% with two Amarr jammers. 65% with three Amarr jammers. Now that's not even close to "perma"-jamming, and three Amarr jammers is close to a specialized anti-Pilgrim fit. [/Edit] -
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:53:00 - [350] This forum attracts so many idiots who cannot pvp.

L0nz0p Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:01:00 - [351] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate This forum attracts so many idiots who cannot pvp. *
DogSlime Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.01 20:01:00 - [352] No point in nerfing falcons. They should boost ECCM - and boost it plenty. That way, if someone doesn't want to be jammed, they have a counter to it, but it will cost them a slot.
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.01 20:36:00 - [353] Originally by: DogSlime No point in nerfing falcons. They should boost ECCM - and boost it plenty. That way, if someone doesn't want to be jammed, they have a counter to it, but it will cost them a slot. They should boost my large armor repper at the same time.
DogSlime Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.01 21:05:00 - [354] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: DogSlime No point in nerfing falcons. They should boost ECCM - and boost it plenty. That way, if someone doesn't want to be jammed, they have a counter to it, but it will cost them a slot. They should boost my large armor repper at the same time. eh? How will boosting a large armour repper affect the Falcon/ECM issue?
Alex Ravenshaw Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.08.01 21:10:00 - [355] enough with the fraeking nerf threads! you might give CCP ideas!
Happytime Harru Caldari Nuisance.	Posted - 2008.08.01 21:34:00 - [356] Incredible. This is insanity, there for some reason is a group of you who spend your time on the forums doing your best to reduce this to a game of spank > tank = win. Get the hell out of here. Every time something is nerfed whether its Nos, or Nano, or Falcon something else comes to the forefront that you all cry about. Find a damn ship you ENJOY flying and play the game. It is about enjoyment after all...I think. I can't imagine you all find enjoyment in crunching numbers, calling each other names, and spending more time on the forums than in the damn game.
Qduhaf	Posted - 2008.08.01 21:35:00 - [357] We are talking post nano-nerf world in this thread i assume. If so it is very reasonable to assume that the post nano EVE is going to be a lot more sniping, and BS so therefore its reasonable to believe that ECCM fitting sniping apocs, scorps and rohks are going to be a lot more common, as will RR Domis with drone mods and even maxed out arazus (though they probably should be boosted and made chanced base so someone flys them again as a dampening ship) so I think we can end this debate, in the pst nano-nerf EVE the falcon will have many counters Not saying that post nano world will be a more fun game to play, but it will be one where range is important and people are fitted for it.
Ephemeron Retribution Corp.	Posted - 2008.08.01 23:59:00 - [358] The falcon is definitely the most powerful EW ship in game - my alt flies one, got plenty of experience. I would support a slight nerf for it, like take off 5% from the ECM strength bonus. However, I don't think it's a good idea to let CCP touch it. Given all past experience with CCP nerfing (sensor damps, NOS), do you really want to make falcons worthless? There's no middle ground here. Either we have slightly overpowered falcons, or CCP make them completely useless. What is the lesser of 2 evils?
Celedris Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:17:00 - [359] Originally by: Ephemeron The falcon is definitely the most powerful EW ship in game - my alt flies one, got plenty of experience. I would support a slight nerf for it, like take off 5% from the ECM strength bonus. However, I don't think it's a good idea to let CCP touch it. Given all past experience with CCP nerfing (sensor damps, NOS), do you really want to make falcons worthless? There's no middle ground here. Either we have slightly overpowered falcons, or CCP make them completely useless. What is the lesser of 2 evils? Dead on. Falcons could use a bit of a nerf but if CCP ever looks at them again they will probably just be nerfed so hard that they won't even be worth flying. CCP has atrociously bad game balance developers so I really can't advocate re-balancing any game mechanic in any way at this point in time. It's better to leave broken stuff in game as is than let out CCP Nozh again with his whirling nerf cavalcade of apocalyptic doom.
Ghostmarine	Posted - 2008.08.02 07:45:00 - [360] Originally by: Aneu Angellus Originally by: Borat Sangdiev There should be no ship that is allowed to completely disable your ability to target back and fight. Perma jamming falcons and ecm are overpowered. nerf it. Please go back to WoW Owned



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