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Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2008.07.31 17:41:00 -
[271]
Originally by: baltec1 I dont get it. How are you having so much trouble with falcons?
I dont have the best of anything yet I can handle EWAR ships. The falcon cannot kill much or tank anything. In my snipoc (which always has an ECCM) I can wipe it out in less than 30 seconds and that is being generous.
I have also never come across a falcon in a fleet on fleet fight which was seperated. The reason being its such a soft target that its best defence is to try and mingle in with the crowd and hope to not get spotted.
Dude.... enough. When you were in Phalanx Alliance you couldn't handle anything, i doubt much has changed. Quit chestbeating.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.31 17:41:00 -
[272]
Originally by: kessah
O rly? give it some breath time eh?
DONT MAKE FUN OF SPECIAL OLYMPICS! I HAVE A FRIEND THAT IS ******ED!
On a more serious note, yeah thats a classic. I like discussions on eve-o. Its for fun you know, great little outlet beside playing the game. It always humors me and gives me something to do while camping. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Troezar
Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 17:43:00 -
[273]
Originally by: baltec1 I dont get it. How are you having so much trouble with falcons?
I dont have the best of anything yet I can handle EWAR ships. The falcon cannot kill much or tank anything. In my snipoc (which always has an ECCM) I can wipe it out in less than 30 seconds and that is being generous.
I have also never come across a falcon in a fleet on fleet fight which was seperated. The reason being its such a soft target that its best defence is to try and mingle in with the crowd and hope to not get spotted.
No wonder you have no probs with EWAR if the Flacon pilots are mixed in with their other ships! Oh and why would it matter anyway with overview settings?! Plus why would a Falcon pilot sit around for 30s getting shot at? Aligned, see some red on shield bar, warp out and warp back...
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Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2008.07.31 17:46:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: kessah
O rly? give it some breath time eh?
DONT MAKE FUN OF SPECIAL OLYMPICS! I HAVE A FRIEND THAT IS ******ED!
On a more serious note, yeah thats a classic. I like discussions on eve-o. Its for fun you know, great little outlet beside playing the game. It always humors me and gives me something to do while camping.
Yeah, I don't get it. Other than one or two idiots this has been a fairly decent discussion. The internet was invented for collaboration. This is a complex game with a lot of complex mechanics. Saying "Arguing is stupid" is well, kinda stupid.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 17:58:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Troezar
Originally by: baltec1 I dont get it. How are you having so much trouble with falcons?
I dont have the best of anything yet I can handle EWAR ships. The falcon cannot kill much or tank anything. In my snipoc (which always has an ECCM) I can wipe it out in less than 30 seconds and that is being generous.
I have also never come across a falcon in a fleet on fleet fight which was seperated. The reason being its such a soft target that its best defence is to try and mingle in with the crowd and hope to not get spotted.
No wonder you have no probs with EWAR if the Flacon pilots are mixed in with their other ships! Oh and why would it matter anyway with overview settings?! Plus why would a Falcon pilot sit around for 30s getting shot at? Aligned, see some red on shield bar, warp out and warp back...
That sounds great, unfortunatly 0.0 rarely works that way. Lag, Bad orders and not enough time all mess up a plan.
Going by what you say my snipoc would be sitting out at 200km every time and would be getting alot of kills and have enough time to get out. If only that were true.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 18:03:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
Originally by: baltec1 I dont get it. How are you having so much trouble with falcons?
I dont have the best of anything yet I can handle EWAR ships. The falcon cannot kill much or tank anything. In my snipoc (which always has an ECCM) I can wipe it out in less than 30 seconds and that is being generous.
I have also never come across a falcon in a fleet on fleet fight which was seperated. The reason being its such a soft target that its best defence is to try and mingle in with the crowd and hope to not get spotted.
Dude.... enough. When you were in Phalanx Alliance you couldn't handle anything, i doubt much has changed. Quit chestbeating.
It was hard when there were next to no amarr supplies. I either went caldari (rubbish skills and I hate missiles) or use whatever I could get hold of. Still I walked away with more kills than deaths which I am happy with since it was my first time in 0.0.
But if you realy belive me to be a total nub then please tell me why I can do what you cant?
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S
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Posted - 2008.07.31 18:05:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Lossy Lucy
Originally by: Bellum Eternus All damps have a 45km Optimal. Therefore they can damp targets correctly at 45km. Anything over 45km and it's 'chance based, as they are operating in falloff. Additionally, this is with maxed skills. Anyone with less than perfect EW range skills will be performing at a substantially lower rate.
And on top of all of that, the Arazu's lock range is 140km (with max skills). So unless you're intent on wasting a slot on a sensor booster (I'm not), it wont' even be locking anything at 150km+, much less damping it.
That's absurd! You have a problem with Falcons and you don't want to change your fitting for a chance to get rid of it? You ALWAYS sacrifice something to be better at another thing. Arguing that you don't want to change your fits once in a while is MAD!
Lyrias frustration about bookmarks I can understand but you're being down right childish.
My Falcon has a lock range of 240km and it's ECM range is 228km OPTIMAL plus another 41km of falloff, which is completely past the 250km lock range limit in the first place.
What Arazu is going to touch me at 230km? Answer: ZERO. All the while I can jam the Arazu with 100% effectiveness. Which is why I use Falcons, not Arazus. Arazus are f#cking useless. But being a lame Caldari, you wouldn't be aware of that.
What a valid argument...."lame caldari" you and your opinion's are a joke. __________________________________________________
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S
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Posted - 2008.07.31 18:10:00 -
[278]
Maybe the army should stop using flash grenades, because the bad guys cant target them...aha ha ha ah ahaha ha lolololololololololol __________________________________________________
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Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2008.07.31 18:23:00 -
[279]
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 Maybe the army should stop using flash grenades, because the bad guys cant target them...aha ha ha ah ahaha ha lolololololololololol
3 is not an E, nor is it clever to replace an E with a 3.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2008.07.31 19:36:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 31/07/2008 19:44:27
Dear whimpering Vagabond pilots!
Instead of bickering over the Falcons performance and screaming it should be 'nerfed' out of spite from having your candy stolen - how about we discuss HOW the Falcon should be changed to be a (for the whole game-) better ship instead? Be creative and constructive instead of just dehydrating your tear canals on these forums. The same goes for the Falcon pilots. Instead of arguing semantics and stupid extremes, how about you discuss possible changes for the ship instead? If anything for the sheer interest of it.
How should the Falcon be changed? What is fair and feasible? How would that improve the game as a whole? How would that add flavour and make the Falcon a good, balanced and fun ship? Positive and interesting always beats a crybaby. I'm sure there are plenty of Caldari Recon pilots out there who are open to suggestions regarding any possible problem. If only people could adress their concerns in a less WoW-like manner (Borat Sangdiev, you play a Rogue, don't you?).
Lowering Falcon ECM strength has been mentioned. Lowering Falcon ECM reach has been mentioned. Lowering ECM reach per default has been mentioned.
How do you forsee that to impact on the game, and on the ship?
How about some motivation? People say EVE isn't WoW, these forums surely speaks differently at the moment .
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BABARR
PARABELUM-Project
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Posted - 2008.07.31 19:37:00 -
[281]
Quote: Ship have a chance of not being jammed. Ships have no chance of avoiding a remote sensor dampener or turret disruptor activation.
OMG
Wrong, wrong, and? wrong.
ECCM are in 90% of the time a big joke, they work a bit only when fitted on a big ship who have already a big sensor strenght. And even a BS whith an ECCM is close to be perma jammed whith some multi (and add the big CPU need for fitting a ECCM).
Damper can be avoid whith sensor booster, TD whith tracking enchancer/computer/web. I say web? not for long it seems. ...
"Si vis pacem, parabellum" |
Ferocious FeAr
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.07.31 19:40:00 -
[282]
The problem here isn't the falcon its when people bring 10 of them.
Don't hate me, learn to love me |
Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2008.07.31 19:48:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Noisrevbus Edited by: Noisrevbus on 31/07/2008 19:44:27
Dear whimpering Vagabond pilots!
Instead of bickering over the Falcons performance and screaming it should be 'nerfed' out of spite from having your candy stolen - how about we discuss HOW the Falcon should be changed to be a (for the whole game-) better ship instead? Be creative and constructive instead of just dehydrating your tear canals on these forums. The same goes for the Falcon pilots. Instead of arguing semantics and stupid extremes, how about you discuss possible changes for the ship instead? If anything for the sheer interest of it.
How should the Falcon be changed? What is fair and feasible? How would that improve the game as a whole? How would that add flavour and make the Falcon a good, balanced and fun ship? Positive and interesting always beats a crybaby. I'm sure there are plenty of Caldari Recon pilots out there who are open to suggestions regarding any possible problem. If only people could adress their concerns in a less WoW-like manner (Borat Sangdiev, you play a Rogue, don't you?).
Lowering Falcon ECM strength has been mentioned. Lowering Falcon ECM reach has been mentioned. Lowering ECM reach per default has been mentioned.
How do you forsee that to impact on the game, and on the ship?
How about some motivation? People say EVE isn't WoW, these forums surely speaks differently at the moment .
Hello, you are they 236th p0aster TODAY to say someone who complains on a forum must be from WoW. That is unoriginal. It lacks flair. Try harder?
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:16:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr The problem here isn't the falcon its when people bring 10 of them.
Actually the problem IS when there is even only ONE. Imagine a group of 10 vs a group of 9 where the group of 9 have one extra hidden ship. Now there is basically no other ship that will tilt the advantage as much as a falcon if that is their 10th and missing ship. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:22:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 Maybe the army should stop using flash grenades, because the bad guys cant target them...aha ha ha ah ahaha ha lolololololololololol
3 is not an E, nor is it clever to replace an E with a 3.
remember that name when your cryin to ur fleet..."help, help...this supr3m3justic3 guy with 3's instead of E's is jamming me in a falcon and my nano ishtar sux now......boo hoo boo hoo......i just died to a guy that doesnt have any missiles launcher fitted!!!!!!!!" __________________________________________________
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Xiaodown
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:27:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Malcanis
Sweetcakes, the only thing you're capable of putting in anyone's mouth is a laugh, at your rather clumsy rhetoric. Now hush the threats because playing the hard man over the internet will make you look even sillier than convincing everyone you have no idea how to counter a shiptype that gets destroyed in numbers every day.
No arguments left? Sad.
I think we can all agree if the bonus to jamming on the falcon was returned to 10% (or maybe even 12.5%), and made to be dependent on the Caldari Cruiser level, that would be a starting point. That way, you would never upgrade from a blackbird to Recon Ships level III and end up with less power. I can get behind that.
The problem is the combination of 20% ECM bonus per level, equal effectiveness between 0 and 150km, AND the ability to fly cloaked.
Actually, any of the above 2 would be OK with me. If the ECM effectiveness bonus were reduced, OR the range effectiveness were addressed, OR it weren't able to fly cloaked, I would be OK with any of those scenarios.
~X --
Sig under construction.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:27:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 31/07/2008 20:30:53
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
Hello, you are they 236th p0aster TODAY to say someone who complains on a forum must be from WoW. That is unoriginal. It lacks flair. Try harder?
Semantics again, read the entire post and discuss the key point instead of arguing for the sake of argument.
Secondly, i did not mean that you necessarily play WoW in person, i compared these forums to the WoW forums in how people keep expressing an oppinion without motivation - just like you do .
The key difference between you and me - despite whatever flavour EVE name you wish to throw around for weight - is that i am always trying to be constructive, while you are not.
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Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:29:00 -
[288]
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 Maybe the army should stop using flash grenades, because the bad guys cant target them...aha ha ha ah ahaha ha lolololololololololol
3 is not an E, nor is it clever to replace an E with a 3.
remember that name when your cryin to ur fleet..."help, help...this supr3m3justic3 guy with 3's instead of E's is jamming me in a falcon and my nano ishtar sux now......boo hoo boo hoo......i just died to a guy that doesnt have any missiles launcher fitted!!!!!!!!"
i'll remember your name when your lame ship gets nerfed.
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:29:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Xiaodown
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Malcanis
Sweetcakes, the only thing you're capable of putting in anyone's mouth is a laugh, at your rather clumsy rhetoric. Now hush the threats because playing the hard man over the internet will make you look even sillier than convincing everyone you have no idea how to counter a shiptype that gets destroyed in numbers every day.
No arguments left? Sad.
I think we can all agree if the bonus to jamming on the falcon was returned to 10% (or maybe even 12.5%), and made to be dependent on the Caldari Cruiser level, that would be a starting point. That way, you would never upgrade from a blackbird to Recon Ships level III and end up with less power. I can get behind that.
The problem is the combination of 20% ECM bonus per level, equal effectiveness between 0 and 150km, AND the ability to fly cloaked.
Actually, any of the above 2 would be OK with me. If the ECM effectiveness bonus were reduced, OR the range effectiveness were addressed, OR it weren't able to fly cloaked, I would be OK with any of those scenarios.
~X
Then all force recon should not be able to fly cloaked! __________________________________________________
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Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:30:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Noisrevbus Edited by: Noisrevbus on 31/07/2008 20:27:44
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
Hello, you are they 236th p0aster TODAY to say someone who complains on a forum must be from WoW. That is unoriginal. It lacks flair. Try harder?
Semantics again, read the entire post and discuss the key point instead of arguing for the sake of argument.
Secondly, i did not mean that you necessarily play WoW in person, i compared these forums to the WoW forums in how people keep expressing an oppinion without motivation - just like you do .
The key points have already been discussed long ago. Go back and read, and if you flame someone, you will get flamed back. Deal with it.
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari ACE'S OVER 8'S
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:30:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 Maybe the army should stop using flash grenades, because the bad guys cant target them...aha ha ha ah ahaha ha lolololololololololol
3 is not an E, nor is it clever to replace an E with a 3.
remember that name when your cryin to ur fleet..."help, help...this supr3m3justic3 guy with 3's instead of E's is jamming me in a falcon and my nano ishtar sux now......boo hoo boo hoo......i just died to a guy that doesnt have any missiles launcher fitted!!!!!!!!"
i'll remember your name when your lame ship gets nerfed.
Then i'll use the scorp....its all the same to me __________________________________________________
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Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:32:00 -
[292]
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 Maybe the army should stop using flash grenades, because the bad guys cant target them...aha ha ha ah ahaha ha lolololololololololol
3 is not an E, nor is it clever to replace an E with a 3.
remember that name when your cryin to ur fleet..."help, help...this supr3m3justic3 guy with 3's instead of E's is jamming me in a falcon and my nano ishtar sux now......boo hoo boo hoo......i just died to a guy that doesnt have any missiles launcher fitted!!!!!!!!"
i'll remember your name when your lame ship gets nerfed.
Then i'll use the scorp....its all the same to me
I have no probs with the scorp. Use it.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:34:00 -
[293]
Edited by: baltec1 on 31/07/2008 20:38:44
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr The problem here isn't the falcon its when people bring 10 of them.
Actually the problem IS when there is even only ONE. Imagine a group of 10 vs a group of 9 where the group of 9 have one extra hidden ship. Now there is basically no other ship that will tilt the advantage as much as a falcon if that is their 10th and missing ship.
The falcon cant jam all 10 ships and any good small gang will have a ceptor which will either rip the falcon apart or take away some of its EWAR. Even after the nano nerf a vaga will be able to fill this roll even better.
Also fitting ECCM and RR will reduce the effectivness of the falcon, you could even fit projected ECCM and use that to boost the jammers target. A sniper battleship or two can destroy a falcon in short order so realy there is no reason why it should pose an impossible target.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:41:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
The key points have already been discussed long ago. Go back and read, and if you flame someone, you will get flamed back. Deal with it.
They are absent in the original post of this thread, started by you.
So how about you fill in those key points right now? Even better, edit your original post and fill them in there - so it's more clearly visible to everyone who have recently started reading this thread (just as i did), that it is a discussion of substance and not just the Salt lake city of Vaga-agony .
I'm giving you a chance to rectify your thread here. It's good advice, take it, don't be rectal.
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Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:43:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 31/07/2008 20:45:09 Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 31/07/2008 20:43:11
Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 31/07/2008 20:38:44
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr The problem here isn't the falcon its when people bring 10 of them.
Actually the problem IS when there is even only ONE. Imagine a group of 10 vs a group of 9 where the group of 9 have one extra hidden ship. Now there is basically no other ship that will tilt the advantage as much as a falcon if that is their 10th and missing ship.
The falcon cant jam all 10 ships and any good small gang will have a ceptor which will either rip the falcon apart or take away some of its EWAR. Even after the nano nerf a vaga will be able to fill this roll even better.
Also fitting ECCM and RR will reduce the effectivness of the falcon, you could even fit projected ECCM and use that to boost the jammers target. A sniper battleship or two can destroy a falcon in short order so realy there is no reason why it should pose an impossible target.
Through out this thread myself and several others discuss why the options you listed are not effective counters. Saying that they are doesn't really counter the points we made about WHY they are not.
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Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:45:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Noisrevbus
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
The key points have already been discussed long ago. Go back and read, and if you flame someone, you will get flamed back. Deal with it.
They are absent in the original post of this thread, started by you.
So how about you fill in those key points right now? Even better, edit your original post and fill them in there - so it's more clearly visible to everyone who have recently started reading this thread (just as i did), that it is a discussion of substance and not just the Salt lake city of Vaga-agony .
I'm giving you a chance to rectify your thread here. It's good advice, take it, don't be rectal.
.....
Just go back and read it.
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Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:45:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Noisrevbus
Originally by: Borat Sangdiev
The key points have already been discussed long ago. Go back and read, and if you flame someone, you will get flamed back. Deal with it.
They are absent in the original post of this thread, started by you.
So how about you fill in those key points right now? Even better, edit your original post and fill them in there - so it's more clearly visible to everyone who have recently started reading this thread (just as i did), that it is a discussion of substance and not just the Salt lake city of Vaga-agony .
I'm giving you a chance to rectify your thread here. It's good advice, take it, don't be rectal.
I'm sorry but honestly, if someone wants to intelligently participate in the discussion they should read the entire thread. If it's one of those TLDR type of situations then well...Sorry. There are no cliffs notes.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:49:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Ignatious Mei Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 31/07/2008 20:43:11
Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 31/07/2008 20:38:44
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr The problem here isn't the falcon its when people bring 10 of them.
Actually the problem IS when there is even only ONE. Imagine a group of 10 vs a group of 9 where the group of 9 have one extra hidden ship. Now there is basically no other ship that will tilt the advantage as much as a falcon if that is their 10th and missing ship.
The falcon cant jam all 10 ships and any good small gang will have a ceptor which will either rip the falcon apart or take away some of its EWAR. Even after the nano nerf a vaga will be able to fill this roll even better.
Also fitting ECCM and RR will reduce the effectivness of the falcon, you could even fit projected ECCM and use that to boost the jammers target. A sniper battleship or two can destroy a falcon in short order so realy there is no reason why it should pose an impossible target.
Through out this thread myself and several others discuss why the option you listed are not effective counters. Saying that they are doesn't really counter the points we made about WHY they are not.
Then tell me why they are working in game.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:53:00 -
[299]
I have read the entire thread. The deeper discussion is still lacking.
Secondly, this is a forum, a 'cliffs notes' condensation when starting a thread is not a bad thing. I'm not saying it should always be there, but you seem to put forward that is is Ignatious. I strongly disagree there. Having an initial summary, if there was one to begin with, is something very positive.
Still, this thread lack proper discussion of how to change the ship, how that would impact on gameplay and how it should be compensated. Discussions such as range being their defense (as they use their EWar in their tanking slots) have not passed beyond the first parenthesis in this sentence. Someone has said "they need range as that is their defense" that's about how deep that discussion has run so far.
Not even an incredibly simple constructive suggestion such as: cut their range in half, and remake ECM into a low- or high slot module so these ships can operate around 100km but have a proper racially preferred tank, have been raised. That's about as simple as it gets, yet this 11 page thread fail to deliver, beyond the weeping ramblings of that pridetart Borat .
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Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:55:00 -
[300]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Ignatious Mei Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 31/07/2008 20:43:11
Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 31/07/2008 20:38:44
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr The problem here isn't the falcon its when people bring 10 of them.
Actually the problem IS when there is even only ONE. Imagine a group of 10 vs a group of 9 where the group of 9 have one extra hidden ship. Now there is basically no other ship that will tilt the advantage as much as a falcon if that is their 10th and missing ship.
The falcon cant jam all 10 ships and any good small gang will have a ceptor which will either rip the falcon apart or take away some of its EWAR. Even after the nano nerf a vaga will be able to fill this roll even better.
Also fitting ECCM and RR will reduce the effectivness of the falcon, you could even fit projected ECCM and use that to boost the jammers target. A sniper battleship or two can destroy a falcon in short order so realy there is no reason why it should pose an impossible target.
Through out this thread myself and several others discuss why the option you listed are not effective counters. Saying that they are doesn't really counter the points we made about WHY they are not.
Then tell me why they are working in game.
Look Baltec. It's really pretty simple. A sniper apoc is really ineffective in small gang fights save for killing a falcon. So why gimp my gang for 70% of my engagements just to bring your gimp ship along for a situational battle with a falcon, that may not happen. A Falcon needs to be able to be killed with a greater range of shiptypes.
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