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CompTrekkie	Posted - 2009.09.05 00:32:00 - [631] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 Originally by: LaVista Vista Issue resolved. While your here, could you plz explain why the website hasnt registered the deposit I made to EVE-Bank shortly after the collapse? I made a deposit to pay back a loan and then found out about an hour later about the whole Ebank accoutn freeze crap. I thought I heard that we were free to withdraw any isk we deposited AFTEr the account freeze? Quick response plz I spent it on booze and cheap hookers!!
jakkut	Posted - 2009.09.05 11:21:00 - [632] Originally by: CompTrekkie Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 Originally by: LaVista Vista Issue resolved. While your here, could you plz explain why the website hasnt registered the deposit I made to EVE-Bank shortly after the collapse? I made a deposit to pay back a loan and then found out about an hour later about the whole Ebank accoutn freeze crap. I thought I heard that we were free to withdraw any isk we deposited AFTEr the account freeze? Quick response plz I spent it on booze and cheap hookers!! I hope the booze was expensive! if your gonna @@@@ someones money away do it in style.
Rada Ionesco Caldari Club a Seal	Posted - 2009.09.07 15:06:00 - [633] Well after an hour to calm down to the recent news (yes I only became aware of this bank freeze today, I actually thought these guys had things under control, silly me), I have to say I am still not happy at all with any of this. I also do not feel bad about calling all E-Bank employees idiots in the E-Bank chat. With the exception of the new director/CEO, it appears to be true. How could all this go on for so long without anyone questioning it? Simply put they were either to incompetent to recognize what was happening or to involved (as guilty parties) to make any reasonable attempt at alerting anyone to the facts of the situation. I say seize the directors accounts and add them into the recovery fund. Does anyone think they deserve any better? I don't think they do.
Rada Ionesco Caldari Club a Seal	Posted - 2009.09.07 15:24:00 - [634] Edited by: Rada Ionesco on 07/09/2009 15:31:15 Edited by: Rada Ionesco on 07/09/2009 15:29:34 Another option for all those who are disgruntled would be to unilaterally decalre war on E-Bank and all of it's subsidiaries. LOL. Yes I undertand this childish and gets no one anywhere, but there is allot of that going on this game anyway. I am also finding my self in the group of investors who are not so sure there will be a repayment of locked funds. There is no way to guarantee that. One way to Guarantee the recovery is real would be to contract loans of smaller more managable BPO to investors, that way you could tie their money to these loans. Once the bank is recovered, and has enough capital to allow withdrawls, the loans could revert BPO ownership to E-Bank in excahnge for the a cash amount. While I am guessing the titan BPOs could not cover all deposits, you could cover a percentage of them.
SentryRaven KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.07 19:43:00 - [635] Originally by: Rada Ionesco Edited by: Rada Ionesco on 07/09/2009 15:31:15 Edited by: Rada Ionesco on 07/09/2009 15:29:34 Another option for all those who are disgruntled would be to unilaterally decalre war on E-Bank and all of it's subsidiaries. LOL. Yes I undertand this childish and gets no one anywhere, but there is allot of that going on this game anyway. I am also finding my self in the group of investors who are not so sure there will be a repayment of locked funds. There is no way to guarantee that. One way to Guarantee the recovery is real would be to contract loans of smaller more managable BPO to investors, that way you could tie their money to these loans. Once the bank is recovered, and has enough capital to allow withdrawls, the loans could revert BPO ownership to E-Bank in excahnge for the a cash amount. While I am guessing the titan BPOs could not cover all deposits, you could cover a percentage of them. A) EBANK is not a corp that you can wardec. We never undock.... why would we? If you wardec our subsidiaries, you are shooting your own leg. How do you think we are going to make the money back, if you wardec us? Kinda not very logical, is it? B) How would we loan out BPOs to investors, if we are using said BPOs to make the money to repay everyone? Again... not very logical, is it? --------
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.07 19:57:00 - [636] I would like to propose to the Ebank Board of Directors that they allow a public figure, chosen by the public, to sit in on all discussions relating to the recovery of account-holder funds and the future of the bank as an establishment. There is an obvious rift between Ebank and the public at present time and I do believe that Ebank wants to do right by its customers and potentially secure a future for itself. However, public opinion and trust is at an all-time low and there are a lot of people who believe that Ebank is out to serve its own interests. I have fleshed this idea out a bit more, but I wanted to present the idea first in hopes that it will be considered. I even have a pretty good candidate in mind.
Rada Ionesco Caldari Club a Seal	Posted - 2009.09.07 19:59:00 - [637] Originally by: SentryRaven Originally by: Rada Ionesco Edited by: Rada Ionesco on 07/09/2009 15:31:15 Edited by: Rada Ionesco on 07/09/2009 15:29:34 Another option for all those who are disgruntled would be to unilaterally decalre war on E-Bank and all of it's subsidiaries. LOL. Yes I undertand this childish and gets no one anywhere, but there is allot of that going on this game anyway. I am also finding my self in the group of investors who are not so sure there will be a repayment of locked funds. There is no way to guarantee that. One way to Guarantee the recovery is real would be to contract loans of smaller more managable BPO to investors, that way you could tie their money to these loans. Once the bank is recovered, and has enough capital to allow withdrawls, the loans could revert BPO ownership to E-Bank in excahnge for the a cash amount. While I am guessing the titan BPOs could not cover all deposits, you could cover a percentage of them. A) EBANK is not a corp that you can wardec. We never undock.... why would we? If you wardec our subsidiaries, you are shooting your own leg. How do you think we are going to make the money back, if you wardec us? Kinda not very logical, is it? B) How would we loan out BPOs to investors, if we are using said BPOs to make the money to repay everyone? Again... not very logical, is it? I don't know why you would I guess. I don't have twelve accounts like you guys do, so that explains some of it maybe. As far as shooting my self in the leg, the post I wrote stated , maybe not specific enough, it was a trust issue. The premise is that you guys are not to be trusted, so it all comes down to that doesn't it. How am I shooting my self in the leg if I don't trust you to begin with? You would loan them out in the form of a contract for collateral. Once again if you want people to trust you, and not just believe that you are making more money off their money, before the eventual big rip off at the end, you might want to asuage peoples fears that you are honest and back that up with something substantial as in money-or collateral in this case. I guess I wasn't aware that most of ebanks money is made off of these BPOs. I guess I should have learned more about the fine art of Eve banking before I made my arguements, or not been such a dumb ass and trusted you thieves with my money. This is the same way you guys take collateral in case someone defaults on a loan. How is that not logical?
SentryRaven KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.07 20:10:00 - [638] Originally by: Rada Ionesco I don't know why you would I guess. I don't have twelve accounts like you guys do, so that explains some of it maybe. As far as shooting my self in the leg, the post I wrote stated , maybe not specific enough, it was a trust issue. The premise is that you guys are not to be trusted, so it all comes down to that doesn't it. How am I shooting my self in the leg if I don't trust you to begin with? Twelve accounts. Terrific number, care to share your source? Can you elaborate on how the trust is in connection to the wardec? Originally by: The same guy You would loan them out in the form of a contract for collateral. Once again if you want people to trust you, and not just believe that you are making more money off their money, before the eventual big rip off at the end, you might want to asuage peoples fears that you are honest and back that up with something substantial as in money-or collateral in this case. I guess I wasn't aware that most of ebanks money is made off of these BPOs. I guess I should have learned more about the fine art of Eve banking before I made my arguements, or not been such a dumb ass and trusted you thieves with my money. This is the same way you guys take collateral in case someone defaults on a loan. How is that not logical? I really do not see what you are suggesting at all... Especially the bolded part. Care to elaborate? --------
Mme Pinkerton Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.07 20:28:00 - [639] Originally by: SentryRaven I really do not see what you are suggesting at all... Especially the bolded part. Care to elaborate? If I understand him right, he proposes EBANK should outsource its BPC business to 'trusted' third parties. As EBANK itself cannot be considered to be 'trusted' anymore, this way at least some of the customers' ISK would be in safe hands. " Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. "
SentryRaven KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.07 20:49:00 - [640] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton If I understand him right, he proposes EBANK should outsource its BPC business to 'trusted' third parties. As EBANK itself cannot be considered to be 'trusted' anymore, this way at least some of the customers' ISK would be in safe hands. Ah, I see. However, if those trusted 3rd parties then decide to run off with the BPOs/Assets.... we would be in deeper trouble than we already are, c/d? --------

HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.07 20:54:00 - [641] Originally by: Rada Ionesco I guess I should have learned more about the fine art of Eve banking before I made my arguements, or not been such a dumb ass and trusted you thieves with my money. I could not have characterized you any better. Thank you. In fact you've accomplished the dumb thing twice over. eBank has no war declarable assets. You can try going after individual employees but truth be told some of them would welcome that given their corporations and alliances. Other than that, truly eBank was designed to remain unassailable by war dec's. Seems that they kept that part while letting everything else go to pot. Originally by: Rada Ionesco The premise is that you guys are not to be trusted, so it all comes down to that doesn't it. How am I shooting my self in the leg if I don't trust you to begin with? A little late for this kind of thinking eh? At this point you, the public, have only one option. Ride it out. I'd point out that you can also ***** and moan on the forums while riding it out but I see that you've already discovered that. Well, at the least you are doing something. Not an intelligent something but something none the less. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
sitar seaton	Posted - 2009.09.07 21:15:00 - [642] Hawkblade sounds like Obama. So my question is: was hawkblade always thinking like this or is he learning the way to trample opposition like our dear leader?
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.07 22:03:00 - [643] Edited by: HawkBlade on 07/09/2009 22:04:27 I don't mind your attempting to troll me mate however could we please keep such things as "local" politics and real life idealogical opinions off the Eve Forums? It's as if we don't have to wade through enough vitriol. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.09.07 22:10:00 - [644] Originally by: Rada Ionesco I don't have twelve accounts like you guys do, so that explains some of it maybe. Point of fact, I have but a single account. I have 1 character I play and 1 character to do EBANK things like withdrawals. Thats it, the alt that sits on my account is logged into maybe twice a year. Please get your facts straight. Thanks :)
Amarr Citizen 155 Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.09.07 22:26:00 - [645] I have 12 accounts: 1. RL checking account 2. RL savings account 3. RL 529 account 4. RL money market account 5. RL investment account (for playing around with stocks) 6. RL credit card account 7. RL credit card account 8. Ebank checking account 9. Ebank savings account 10. Eve player account 11. Eve player account 12. RL social security account There's prolly a few more random accounts attached to my name such as a Bursar account at grad school or insurance accounts and such. <Amarr's signature>
sitar seaton	Posted - 2009.09.08 03:32:00 - [646] "Well, at the least you are doing something. Not an intelligent something but something none the less." Its as if we dont have to wade through enough vitriol.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.09.08 18:17:00 - [647] After contemplating how much percentage you'd have to earn, I would honestly liquidate the Titan program and put your full port full on hog into manipulation trading using a combination of at least 4-5 people. Spread those folks out over timezones so you can get as much coverage as possible and shoot for the known medium length return items like minerals, moon goo, and ice products. Position yourselves now as you have about a month until patch details start leaking out for the november expansion. Given 700-800b you could conceivably return a spread of max 20% more realistically 12%, as each program or rather individual returns profit funnel that profit into a new individual to seed a new manipulation program. Following this you could add an additional 50b every month. The burn out point for most traders is around the 500b point, this is where it becomes a literal chore even on long term movement item groups. So spread the programs up to around 100-200b a piece. I would project at the least, you could earn the following profit over the next 8 months, with the profit growth starting to level off around month 5 or 6. 100b 130b 180b 230b 280b 300b 310b 320b That nets you a total of 1.8t, more than enough to recover losses and seed the bank into interest giving again, also well ahead of the 12 month schedule. Couple this with account selling, renegotiation, etc... and you could conceivably start business as normal as early as month 4. But you have to act literally right now as the window of opportunity is shrinking pretty damn fast.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.09.08 18:56:00 - [648] Kazzac, if you check the new balance sheet (as of Sep 8th) it lists assets at 800B with a shortfall of 900+B. 1. The Titan program at 350B will bring in 180B over the next year. If the 90B earned after 6 months from the Titan BPC's is added to the loan porfolio and compounded it can turn 90B into 130B by year end. Total Titan program with reinvestment at end of year 1 is 220B 2. 260 in loans at 6.5% brings in about 200B, if compounded for loans it brings in 233B 3. Other ventures (listed at about 100B or so) return 50-70B (best world). With re-investment of profits into loans (assuming you get them) you can earn about 520B in 1 calender year, assuming you can reinvest ALL profits. With best intentions and an ideal working scenario EBANK could theoretically pay back in about 20 months, with current returns on assets (I don't think Titan's will be worth as much when DD nerf comes in November) and current loan rates!! Customers would be looking at a 100% return in approximately May 2011
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.09.08 19:06:00 - [649] Originally by: cosmoray Kazzac, if you check the new balance sheet (as of Sep 8th) it lists assets at 800B with a shortfall of 900+B Customers would be looking at a 100% return in approximately May 2011 Well shck, this more or less puts the underlined at a pipe dream then. I still say liquidating the Titan program sooner rather than later, that is A LOT of working capital tied up for such a small return. The program made sense when you just could not inflate any long term trading program beyond the burnout point of 500b and you have close to 2t, but at this point they need every working isk they can possibly get. I'd even go so far as to suggest perhaps taking some of the collateral and leveraging it for a loan yourselves is in order.
SetrakDark	Posted - 2009.09.08 19:17:00 - [650] There is 485b worth of assets that could be liquidated (or are already liquid) and 325b in outstanding loans or other ventures. Add the fact that mass liquidation would lower asset value and you have a < 485b for any "super" recovery fund, whatever form that takes.

cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.09.08 19:21:00 - [651] Originally by: SetrakDark There is 485b worth of assets that could be liquidated (or are already liquid) and 325b in outstanding loans or other ventures. Add the fact that mass liquidation would lower asset value and you have a < 485b for any "super" recovery fund, whatever form that takes. The fact is that EBANK have stated they want to return the money in a year. To do that they need to earn 9.5% across their ENTIRE asset base EVERY month and then COMPOUND it. Their best efforts are only returning 5-7% (Titan and loans will not return more). Liquidating seems to return 40% now. 100% in 1 year is a joke It can't be done in 1 year. There I said it.
Jazz Scotch	Posted - 2009.09.08 21:27:00 - [652] Who is speaking for EBANK, I read all this and I don't see EBANK saying anthing. When are thay going to tell us something. Anything!
SentryRaven KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.08 21:30:00 - [653] Originally by: Jazz Scotch Who is speaking for EBANK, I read all this and I don't see EBANK saying anthing. When are thay going to tell us something. Anything! First post? Or www.eve-bank.net? --------
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.08 21:30:00 - [654] Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: SetrakDark There is 485b worth of assets that could be liquidated (or are already liquid) and 325b in outstanding loans or other ventures. Add the fact that mass liquidation would lower asset value and you have a < 485b for any "super" recovery fund, whatever form that takes. The fact is that EBANK have stated they want to return the money in a year. To do that they need to earn 9.5% across their ENTIRE asset base EVERY month and then COMPOUND it. Their best efforts are only returning 5-7% (Titan and loans will not return more). Liquidating seems to return 40% now. 100% in 1 year is a joke It can't be done in 1 year. There I said it. Not even if they really, really believe?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.08 22:44:00 - [655] Originally by: Solisk Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: SetrakDark There is 485b worth of assets that could be liquidated (or are already liquid) and 325b in outstanding loans or other ventures. Add the fact that mass liquidation would lower asset value and you have a < 485b for any "super" recovery fund, whatever form that takes. The fact is that EBANK have stated they want to return the money in a year. To do that they need to earn 9.5% across their ENTIRE asset base EVERY month and then COMPOUND it. Their best efforts are only returning 5-7% (Titan and loans will not return more). Liquidating seems to return 40% now. 100% in 1 year is a joke It can't be done in 1 year. There I said it. Not even if they really, really believe? In a year, many characters with isk currently in accounts will have retired from eve. Don't forget that's hidden wealth they'll be unlocking. And as a bonus, they'll be able to cite it as evidence of the continued trust in the community for continuing to stay with them after they allow withdrawals.
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.09.09 05:25:00 - [656] Originally by: Jazz Scotch Who is speaking for EBANK, I read all this and I don't see EBANK saying anthing. When are thay going to tell us something. Anything! I'm sorry, I don't believe I've missed any questions. What would you like me to comment on? Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.09.09 09:46:00 - [657] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 09/09/2009 09:46:08 Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Jazz Scotch Who is speaking for EBANK, I read all this and I don't see EBANK saying anthing. When are thay going to tell us something. Anything! I'm sorry, I don't believe I've missed any questions. What would you like me to comment on? When are you going to give clear answers to questions asked ? PS: Also, when are you going to run with the money ? --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.09.09 10:50:00 - [658] 22 pages to go, 2nd scandal in the last few months and EVE bank still hasn't learned 2 valuable lessons, 1 - have their members immediately identifiable by the public, and 2 - never smack your investors are you **** up badly. GGG eve-bank. --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.09.09 11:53:00 - [659] Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/09/2009 11:53:51 Yeah the smacking of their investors by Usuryist board members is particularly funny. I guess they feel distraught that their hard work (and no doubt RL stress) to get this bank back on an even keel isn't appreciated enough by the plebs. To you plebs - you should be supporting these guys. Sure, they are demonstrably incompetent, sure they are smacking you for wanting your money back, - but to be honest - you deserve it for putting the money in their hands They hate you because you are GREEDY. Look deep into your soul and admit it. You are LOATHSOME. You DESERVE this. Accept this now, and restore balance to your life. SKUNK (o)
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.09.09 12:06:00 - [660] Originally by: cosmoray It can't be done in 1 year. There I said it. I think it can, however specific things need to happen and happen soon. They have the talent sitting there right now (especially with Ray) but there also needs to be some incentive for the staff other than 'don't get associated with this clusterscrew'



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