Holy Crap, lemme get a 55 gallon drum, your tear ducts are in overload

News just in.. prices for tears plummet as massive new ASB Tear deposits are overflowing the market.

The other day I had this guy in a MERLIN tank SIX GUYS in CA 1 in PVH for 8 consecutive minutes using ASB.

If this was a TQ fight

Yea well Amarr stuff sucks, its as simple as that. Laser suck, armor tanking sucks. End of.

u mad bro?

So let me get this straight.

You're pissed at loosing a shitfit bhaal to a well tanked rattlesnake while flying solo.

On sisi.

I have some advice you should follow friend, before you start commenting on the state of mods in eve:

1) Grow some balls and fight on tranq
2) Learn to fit ships.
3) Don't go crying to CCP if you loose a fight. It won't work and just makes you look pathetic.
4) Don't fly what you cant afford to loose (emotionally as well as financially)

Show me a bs with 90k raw shields that does 600 dps before drones at 50k with full damage 90% of the time. Might believe you then.

How about you shove your advice up your ass?

Judging by your killboard all you do is fly in drake swarm fleets.

Don't give PVP advice when all you do is blob in a drake and count on 50 fleetmates to kill your enemies.

Try giving advice when you use armor tanks, buffers, ECM, painters, webs, scramblers, neutralizers, nosferatus, cap micromanagement, speed tanks and turrets, not the most noob PVP friendly ship in the game whose only skill requirement is pressing F1.

The benefits of other weapon systems and shield tanking are bigger, lasers needs a fix...

The benefits of other weapon systems and shield tanking are bigger, lasers needs a fix...

I disagree about shields but yes lasers could use a little love.

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.

It's funny how almost noone disagrees with that fact and yet CCP doesn't seem to notice or care. :<

Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).


If Lasers are broken, why are Hellcats and AHAX fairly wonderful fleetcomps.

Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).

Its situational to be honest. Some areas armor is better, some shield.

This.

They could do with a slight pg req. reduction though ;P.

So, I just had a test fight on SiSi.

It was a 1 v 1 fight versus a RATTLESNAKE in a BHAALGORN and I LOST.

My Bhaalgorn had 250 K EHP, 850 gun + 200 drone DPS, dual web, dual NOS, one neutralizer, one tracking computer with tracking scripts, one target painter, one warp scrambler and 4 T2 pulses with COnflagration L crystals.

The other guy had a generic mission carebear **** fit like all rattlesnakes do, the typical super passive+crap boring drones and pathetic 150 dps cruise missiles setup.

If this was a TQ fight I would have been ******* pissed for losing a Bhallgorn to a **** fit mission rattlesnake with two bullshit overpowered mods on it.

Enormous base damage? wat...

You lost a Bhaal to a Mission Runner?
Were you even pointed?
Could you not cap him and run if you were pointed?
Did you not kill his drones?





So, to be clear... you are not mad now? You just would be mad IF if was on TQ. So this is not rage posting?

So, I just had a test fight on SiSi.

It was a 1 v 1 fight versus a RATTLESNAKE in a BHAALGORN and I LOST.

My Bhaalgorn had 250 K EHP, 850 gun + 200 drone DPS, dual web, dual NOS, one neutralizer, one tracking computer with tracking scripts, one target painter, one warp scrambler and 4 T2 pulses with COnflagration L crystals.

The other guy had a generic mission carebear **** fit like all rattlesnakes do, the typical super passive+crap boring drones and pathetic 150 dps cruise missiles setup.

I got the guy into 5% shield FIVE ******* TIMES IN A ROW and he always bounced right up back to 70-100% in a few short seconds.

If this was a TQ fight I would have been ******* pissed for losing a Bhallgorn to a **** fit mission rattlesnake with two bullshit overpowered mods on it.

Any word on when the F you intend to NERF the ASB or at least limit the son of a ***** to ONE per ship, CCP?

The other day I had this guy in a MERLIN tank SIX GUYS in CA 1 in PVH for 8 consecutive minutes using ASB.

No seriously, when are you nerfing that ****?

If you're going to leave it like that, at least make armor repairers or armor plates repair armor passively when inactive and work like an ASB when activated.

Seriously CCP, ASB is retardedly OP right now.

Enormous base damage? wat...
"Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with cap use"... loal, yes thats why you can run out of cap by just running your turrets on a battleship in a few minutes. :D


EDIT: How often do you actually fly Amarr in PVP, tell me.


Was talking about the laser part, if they fixed tracking it would be quite okay I guess.

Well to be fair the high PG use makes sense on lasers.

Crap tracking does not, pulse lasers should track even better than blasters or at least a little better than Autocannons.

Right now they are at just about Railgun level and that is weird.

Never understood why lasers in Eve don't have near perfect tracking, they are energy beam weapons (light of speed hitting), lasers IRL have amazing tracking just like CIWS miniguns.

The downside to lasers would totally be justified if they at least had blaster-level tracking.

But enough about lasers needing a buff, lets return to bitching about ASB being OP now.

Enormous base damage? wat...
"Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with cap use"... loal, yes thats why you can run out of cap by just running your turrets on a battleship in a few minutes. :D


EDIT: How often do you actually fly Amarr in PVP, tell me.

You're talking lore not mechanics. It may make sense but its unbalanced. But if you're going to have that argument targeting computers would be able to hit almost anything with almost anything at 1k+ out so irl arguments about spaceship gun tracking are kind of daft.

so TL : DR

I took an expensive ship hunting and got my ass beat by another expensive obviously better fit ship. /RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*EDIT - for YEARS people have been screaming at CCP to make it so 5 VS. 1 is not an instant win.... WISH GRANTED :)

Never understood why lasers in Eve don't have near perfect tracking, they are energy beam weapons (light of speed hitting), lasers IRL have amazing tracking just like CIWS miniguns.

Now you are talking about balance when you call me a ******** whiner for complaining that there is a mod in the game that can take a rattlesnake from 5% shield to 100% shield 5 times in a row.

Hypocrite much?

A Hellcat Abaddon with 2 Damage mods hits 900 DPS at 20km (15km with 2 tracking scripts instead) with Navy Multi. 1k DPS with Conflag, but that's somewhat situational and harder to apply.

Then you have the MAGIC that is Scorch, pushing that same boat to 717DPS at 58km (45km). Reach out and touch someone indeed.

At the same time it has 130k EHP. They're a great fleetcomp.

That's 2 Damage mods. A Machariel running Hail and 2 damage mods does only 930 DPS at 3km. By the time you get to 15km, it's dropped to below 800 DPS. That's compared to a non-Pirate faction BS.

An Abaddon is gankier than a Machariel when fit similarly. Ponder that for a moment when you say Lasers don't have great damage.

Now, on to range projection:
Abaddon Scorch: 717 DPS all the way out to 60km (45 w/ Tracking).
Machariel Barrage: 665 DPS all the way out to 8km (6 w/ tracking), by 60km it's dropped below 500 DPS (below 500 DPS at 45km with Tracking).


I love the Harbi. I flew the Hellcat and the Ahac (<3 AHAX) with Red Legion in Detorid. The Guardian rocks. The Punisher is one of my favorite Frigates.

Now you are talking about balance when you call me a ******** whiner for complaining that there is a mod in the game that can take a rattlesnake from 5% shield to 100% shield 5 times in a row.

Hypocrite much?

Because it's difficult to keep the beam focused on the same spot to the extent needed to start punching holes in stuff. Pointing a laser at a target is easy; making it have more effect than a fancy torch is not.

GǪand if you want to make an argument about realism, everyone would just be using missiles anyway.

Maybe I havn't been flying in the right corps, but how often do you 1v1 a bhaalgorn vs a rattlesnake?

Your stats are all wrong, how is it that I have a Machariel that does 1200 gun DPS?

Nothing beats Machariel at turrets, and especially not pathetic lasers.

You were playing on SISI, where everyone flies Deadspace A-type Tank, faction damage mods, 6% hard wirings, leadership bonuses, Strong Drugs, High Grade Crystal/Slave implants, Super high meta mods.


What you experience on Sisi, is hardly reflective on what actually happens on TQ.

they do - which is why you usually won't see bonuses for turret damage on amarr ships and why their cap and PG requirements are balanced in a way that makes fitting them to non-amarr ships pretty much impossible.

lasers are by design overpowered relative to the other weapon types.

(my personal feeling is that lasers are in a fine place right now - they were very strong ca. 2008 but since projectiles and hybrids got buffs and the field is relatively balanced; putting them back into a significantly stronger position now would only initiate another cycle of stat inflation)

On the test server, every 20 minutes or so.

And unless Rattle has a bullshit OP mod on it or 2, Bhaalgorn always wins.

Fit an Abaddon with the same number of DPS mods as you need to hit 1200 DPS on a Mach and it hits 1228 DPS. And it projects that DPS much better.

Your stats are all wrong, how is it that I have a Machariel that does 1200 gun DPS?

Nothing beats Machariel at turrets, and especially not pathetic lasers.

True, but it does not do Explosive and Kinetic damage.

So, unless they use a fit that specifically counters your fit, they win? Try finding a counter to the ASB. All you need is to tank them until they run out of Cargo room.

The Mach doesn't do EM or Therm at 1200 DPS. It has to drop 25% of its DPS to shoot outside of essentially pure EXP damage.

Nobody leaves big enough holes for the damage types to matter particularly.

Also lol OP bringing up my kb stats 138 kills with losses being almost exclusively frigs with some very badly fit gallente bs thrown in. Very impressive...

So, unless they use a fit that specifically counters your fit, they win? Try finding a counter to the ASB. All you need is to tank them until they run out of Cargo room.

Wrong.

Mach does the same thermal, explosive and EM DPS, you just need to switch ammo.

Only kinetic is lower. By about 400 DPS.

ASB ships are not prevalent like Dramiels were before the nerf or how Thrashers are now after the boost. ASB are still very rarely used and therefore cannot be an overpowered mod, else everyone would be using them.

The issue here is that the counter you describe is exactly the same as the counter to a regular shieldbooster+capbooster combo. The regular combo is also counterable by neuting.

However, in the case of the ASB, the counter that is neuting is not present, making a ASB, particularly the dual-ASB setup just plain BETTER than the shield/cap booster combo, as it lacks a weakness to balance it's strength.

All the ASB needs is "limited to one of these modules" to be balanced - the long reload time acting as the balancing "weakness".

The issue here is that the counter you describe is exactly the same as the counter to a regular shieldbooster+capbooster combo. The regular combo is also counterable by neuting.

However, in the case of the ASB, the counter that is neuting is not present, making a ASB, particularly the dual-ASB setup just plain BETTER than the shield/cap booster combo, as it lacks a weakness to balance it's strength.

All the ASB needs is "limited to one of these modules" to be balanced - the long reload time acting as the balancing "weakness".

1200 DPS on a Mach is only achievable with Hail. Hail is almost pure EXP. It has to drop a large chunk of DPS to switch.

Keep it boosting for ~45-50s and you have 1m to kill it.

Yes, that's how I suggested it should work. But with dual ASB setups that doesn't happen except with completely overwhelming amounts of DPS.

Then you just keep them going for 3-4m because they run out of Cargo.

They've also massively gimped the rest of their Fit.

Of course you never lose ships when you have 500 other friends that can get killed instead around you.

That's like winning the lottery.

Don't try to use that bullshit "i am a better PVPer because I never die" crap with me, I used to do blob warfare and I know how those work.

And also don't use the "get some balls and PVP on TQ" bullshit either.
When you do blob warfare you have almost 0 risk of losing your ship and even if you do you get reimbursed.

Try doing some small gang/solo PVP and then come to me and call me a coward or ***** or what the **** ever after you lose 50 bils worth of ships to overpowered crapfits after a while.

In 3 years of blob warfare I died once or twice and got a few hundred bils in "kills".

What I am trying to say is, don't brag about how awesome your KB stats are when they were made exclusively by blobbing or having over 10 people assisting you.

How about you shove your advice up your ass?

Judging by your killboard all you do is fly in drake swarm fleets.

Don't give PVP advice when all you do is blob in a drake and count on 50 fleetmates to kill your enemies.

Try giving advice when you use armor tanks, buffers, ECM, painters, webs, scramblers, neutralizers, nosferatus, cap micromanagement, speed tanks and turrets, and you know how to use all the info available on your screen, like transversal, radial and Angular velocity indicator, not the most noob PVP friendly ship in the game whose only skill requirement is pressing F1.

And don't dare tell me the guy had a "better setup" when all he basically had to do to kill me was activate his drones (which I popped BTW), turn on his scrambler and cruise launchers and be semi AFK while coming back every 40 seconds to activate his overpowered dual ASB bullshit OP mods, okay?

Oh, and before I popped, a Vangel and Vagabond warped in and started attacking me as well, I blew them both up.

Skill wise, i would have defeated ALL of them 3 vs 1 no problem, bullshit OP mod-wise, the ASB noob won.

Eve ******* sucks compared to how it was in 2007 I swear, WAY more fun and player skill oriented back then.

Fancy linking your pro kill board then, since you're raging at some test guy when you sound pretty damn terrible yourself.

Also, since when has PvP in Eve been balanced around 1v1?

Now you are talking about balance when you call me a ******** whiner for complaining that there is a mod in the game that can take a rattlesnake from 5% shield to 100% shield 5 times in a row.

But of course you support that, you fly in Drake blob fleets and that overpowered ASB crap probably saved your ass more than once.

Hypocrite much?

And don't dare tell me the guy had a "better setup" when all he basically had to do to kill me was activate his drones (which I popped BTW), turn on his scrambler and cruise launchers and be semi AFK while coming back every 40 seconds to activate his overpowered dual ASB bullshit OP mods, okay?

The other guy had a generic mission carebear **** fit like all rattlesnakes do.

And a rattlesnake with FOUR cruise launchers and no drones broke your tank? Did he neut you? Does that now come with the generic mission carebear **** fit?

See, there's this thing called a buffer fit...

So since the rattlesnake, a faction battleship, is a viable pvp ship now, that makes it bad?

Oh I forgot real PVPers don't use Rattlesnakes.....

See, there's this thing called a buffer fit...

So, I just had a test fight on SiSi.

It was a 1 v 1 fight versus a RATTLESNAKE in a BHAALGORN and I LOST.

My Bhaalgorn had 250 K EHP, 850 gun + 200 drone DPS, dual web, dual NOS, one neutralizer, one tracking computer with tracking scripts, one target painter, one warp scrambler and 4 T2 pulses with COnflagration L crystals.

The other guy had a generic mission carebear **** fit like all rattlesnakes do, the typical super passive+crap boring drones and pathetic 150 dps cruise missiles setup.

I got the guy into 5% shield FIVE ******* TIMES IN A ROW and he always bounced right up back to 70-100% in a few short seconds.

If this was a TQ fight I would have been ******* pissed for losing a Bhallgorn to a **** fit mission rattlesnake with two bullshit overpowered mods on it.

Any word on when the F you intend to NERF the ASB or at least limit the son of a ***** to ONE per ship, CCP?

The other day I had this guy in a MERLIN tank SIX GUYS in CA 1 in PVH for 8 consecutive minutes using ASB.

No seriously, when are you nerfing that ****?

If you're going to leave it like that, at least make armor repairers or armor plates repair armor passively when inactive and work like an ASB when activated.

Seriously CCP, ASB is retardedly OP right now.

On the test server, every 20 minutes or so.

And unless Rattle has a bullshit OP mod on it or 2, Bhaalgorn always wins.

So, I just had a test fight on SiSi.
.

The OP is annoyed because his opponent had the temerity to think outside the box and tank a little differently. CCP chuck these new modules at us to stir up fitting doctrines so that we don't all end up with cookie cutter fits.

An ASB or 2 might give a huge tanking advantage, as the OP witnessed, but it only lasts as long as you have cap boosters in cargo, the 60 second reload time downside more than compensates for the shield boost potential when a single ASB is fitted, dual ASBs is playing it safe but it still only lasts as long as the cap boosters do.

My Bhaalgorn had 250 K EHP, 850 gun + 200 drone DPS, dual web, dual NOS, one neutralizer, one tracking computer with tracking scripts, one target painter, one warp scrambler and 4 T2 pulses with COnflagration L crystals.

Found your problem, learn to Bhaalgorn.

This... wtf do you need a target painter for vs a rattler???? The thing's the size of a moon!

i think next time i do it on SiSi, I'm gonna look for this guy, and use my tengu booster and have my indy alt jet can me tons n tons of 400s.


Of course, you could just do the what you should've done to start with, and have more than one person.

Funny thing is, I bet a fully factioned out passive shield tank could tank a bhaal.

Do it on TQ and maybe we'll care about how average you are at PvP.

Shut up 2012 miner corp carebear.

I can't hear you over the sound of me being a 2007 PVE carebear.

:P

In case you "leet pvpers" didn't notice, my setup was made to kill sub-bs ships and support ships and interceptors, the guy caught me in a belt.

How do you think I was able to kill a Vangel and a Vagabond and all that Rattlesnake's drones before I died?

Unlike some of you fail blobbers and "PVPers" who don't know your heads from your asses and use the same setup for everyone in a 500 man fleet, I know how to fit my ships for solo.

And I would have won 1 vs 3 too if it wasn't for the overpowered ASB crap.
What part of " I GOT HIM INTO 5% SHIELDS FIVE ******* TIMES IN A ROW BUT HE JUMPED BACK TO 100% 5 TIMES IN A ROW" don't you understand?
I would have killed him five times over along with the 2 other guys if it wasn't for asb being OP now STFU and quit trying to justify the existence of such an overpowered module.
I'd like to see an armor buffer tank go from 5% armor to 100% in a few seconds FIVE ******* TIMES IN A ROW.
Then you'd be the ones bitching, but when it is in your favor to have something OP OFC you don't complain.

I'd like to see any of you win a fight 1 v 1 against me in ANY ship in your **** fleet drakes or maelstroms.

Also, to the moron that called bull on the Vangel kill, here you go:

2012.07.29 00:32:00

Victim: MimmoB
Corp: MimmoB Corporation
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Vangel
System: PVH8-0
Security: -0.1
Damage Taken: 10161

Involved parties:

Name: Freezehunter (laid the final blow)
Security: 5.00
Corp: Fink Operations
Alliance: Eternal Syndicate
Faction: None
Ship: Bhaalgorn
Weapon: Mega Pulse Laser II
Damage Done: 10161

Name: subgranules
Security: -1.2
Corp: Murientor Tribe
Alliance: Defiant Legacy
Faction: Minmatar Republic
Ship: Rattlesnake
Weapon: Ammatar Navy Heavy Nosferatu
Damage Done: 0

Destroyed items:

Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 1500 (Cargo)
Valkyrie SW-600, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay)
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Federation Navy 1MN Afterburner
Hobgoblin II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay)
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
ECCM - Radar II
Nova Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 1500 (Cargo)
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Scourge Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 1500 (Cargo)
Scourge Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 32
Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Heavy Missile Launcher II
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II

Dropped items:

Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System
True Sansha Medium Energy Neutralizer
Inferno Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 31
Nova Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 31
True Sansha Medium Nosferatu
Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 31
Inferno Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 1500 (Cargo)

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Shaidar+Hussan

Worst thing is, I really am a care bear. And I still solo stuff more than you.

In case you "leet pvpers" didn't notice, my setup was made to kill sub-bs ships and support ships and interceptors, the guy caught me in a belt.

So, I just had a test fight on SiSi.

It was a 1 v 1 fight versus a RATTLESNAKE in a BHAALGORN and I LOST.

My Bhaalgorn had 250 K EHP, 850 gun + 200 drone DPS, dual web, dual NOS, one neutralizer, one tracking computer with tracking scripts, one target painter, one warp scrambler and 4 T2 pulses with COnflagration L crystals.

The other guy had a generic mission carebear **** fit like all rattlesnakes do, the typical super passive+crap boring drones and pathetic 150 dps cruise missiles setup.

I got the guy into 5% shield FIVE ******* TIMES IN A ROW and he always bounced right up back to 70-100% in a few short seconds.

If this was a TQ fight I would have been ******* pissed for losing a Bhallgorn to a **** fit mission rattlesnake with two bullshit overpowered mods on it.

Any word on when the F you intend to NERF the ASB or at least limit the son of a ***** to ONE per ship, CCP?

The other day I had this guy in a MERLIN tank SIX GUYS in CA 1 in PVH for 8 consecutive minutes using ASB.

No seriously, when are you nerfing that ****?

If you're going to leave it like that, at least make armor repairers or armor plates repair armor passively when inactive and work like an ASB when activated.

Seriously CCP, ASB is retardedly OP right now.

Shut up 2012 miner corp carebear.

I can't hear you over the sound of me being a 2007 PVE carebear.

:P

By the way, you all got trolled, ASB is just fine.

Would be cool to limit it to one per ship like in ATX though.

This thread is entertaining.

Keep it on topic. Thank you.

By the way, you all got trolled, ASB is just fine.

OP Just claimed that the topic is Trolling, not his whining about SISI PvP.

Gas thread, Ban OP.

Bringing you quality trolling since 1998.
You're welcome.

FYP

I got you all riled up, arguing with each other about some guy losing a Bhaalgorn to a Rattlesnake on the test server.

You got trolled, trust me.

Troll or not, ASB is most definitely unbalanced.

Looks more like you got butthurt about losing a Bhaal to a Rattler on SISI and decided to try to save face by going
"I TROLLL UUUU.... hurrrrr"

Either way, 0/10 troll.

The comparison between an ASB and shield extender is a bit flawed, considering that successfully reloading an ASB during a fight is a real possibility. Then the ASB is suddenly twice as good in terms of HP.

If you can't kill an ASB in a full minute without reps, you have other problems.

If you can't survive the gimped DPS of a Dual ASB ship for long enough to run its charges down, you have other problems.

What exactly about a dual-ASB ship's DPS is any lower than something -non? As far as I know, ASB modules have absolutely no effect on low slots, which are the slots that increase DPS. An ASB ship doesn't sacrifice any DPS for their overblown tank.

Try fitting up a Dual X-L ASB Drake. See what kind of fit you can put into their Lows.

ASBs have pretty stiff fitting requirements, and shoehorning them onto your fit requires you to give up a lot.

Try fitting up a Dual X-L ASB Drake. See what kind of fit you can put into their Lows.

ASBs have pretty stiff fitting requirements, and shoehorning them onto your fit requires you to give up a lot.

That's kinda' because fitting two absurdly oversized boosters to a ship will pretty much always be a problem.

Yes, because a Battlecruiser is SUPPOSED to be able to fit two battleship sized shield boosters and still have more than enough PG and CPU to fit other useful ****.

Apparently Pipa has made it a personal habit to talk out of his ass.

If you honestly think that you are a moron.

I didn't say that. The guy I responded to was saying that the Dual ASB tank (only viable on ships larger than cruisers with an X-L ASB) didn't gimp your fit. It does. Massively.

1 X-L ASB, you tank till the reload and then die. 2 X-L ASBs, you have a gimped fit, but tank 'till your cargo bay is empty. 2 L ASBs, you just die.

Have you ever considered that the ASB was never intended to be the be all end all module of ultimate invulnerability and it was actually supposed to be, erm... what's that word? Oh yes, BALANCED?

Reminds me of the Invulnerability Field module nerf. MUCH NEEDED and it eventually happened because resistances were becoming ridiculous on shields.

Another ASB thread.

Yes they're OP. If you don't think they are OP, you are bad at math and/or bad at eve and/or love power creep for no reason.

Balance the original active tanking modules, then worry about creating new modules.

If people dont think they are OP, go watch the first few rounds of the latest Alliance Tournament. Ships with ASBs were often tanking the entire other team's 5+ ppl dps until the cap charges ran out. That is absolutely silly. They need to be nerfed and quickly.

ASB's are essentially a Buffer Tank module that's only effective in small engagements.

A Buffer tank can tank an unlimited amount of DPS until its buffer runs out. The ASB can tank a limited (but large) amount of DPS until its charges run out.

The 6 man format is basically designed to showcase the ASB by limiting available DPS on the field.

I don't do math, but how many raw hp can an XL ASB boost with a full cap booster load? I would bet It's an obscene amount - probably the equal of quite a few LSE....

It takes an armor tank quite a bit of time to rep the amount of 1 1600RTP. How long does it take for an ASB to boost the amount of an LSE? How many LSE equivilants can it boost before it runs out of charges? I don't know the answer, but I would suspect that math is pretty telling. It's possible I'm wrong, but given the anecdotal evidence, I doubt it.

LSE = 2625 Raw HP
XL ASB = 980 Raw HP/cycle
L ASB = 390 Raw HP/cycle

XL ASB > 1 LSE at 12 seconds into the fight.
L ASB > 1 LSE at 28 seconds into the fight.

1600 II = 4200 Raw HP
2x LAR II = 1600 Raw HP/Cycle (800 ea)
1 LAR > 1600 II at 90 sec into the fight (fires at the end of the cycle)
2 LAR > 1600 II at 45 sec into the fight (fires at the end of the cycle)

-Liang

Thanks.

I am travelling, so I dont have eft here to make my own test fits, but people are reporting ~1600 dps tanks (with heat but no pills I think) on Cyclones and Ferox with one XL and one L ASB.

Its silly, IMHO.

Holy Crap, lemme get a 55 gallon drum, your tear ducts are in overload

I really only fly armor active rep or shield buffer Gallente, but if a Neutron Talos wiill fit an XL asb +web+point+mwd + 3 extender rigs - then I might have to give that a try. ;)

also OP his "pathetic 150 dps **** fit" is apparently better than yours. You even have the lossmail to prove it.

150dps from missiles. The drones probably add 500 or more.

He said he killed off the drones and the missile dps killed him. I can't imagine how the rattler had enough cap charges in the cargo hold for it to sustain tank long enough even for a buffer fit bhaalgorn to finally die.

I had 15% left of my buffer until I managed to kill off all of his drones, because every time I popped one, another one would come out from his drone bay.

And a Rattlesnake can pump out 780 drone DPS+the 150-220 from cruise Missiles or Torps.

Add that to the ridiculous buffer and shield passive recharge+ ASB, and that thing is just ridiculous.

It will win not by DPS or buffer, but by chewing down your armor buffer slowly until you eventually die, because the son of a ***** is going from 5% to 100% shields every 40-60 seconds five times in a row.

How about fitting a repper next time? And maybe neuts instead of nos? That way you'd cap him out and his point would fail and you could warp off...

Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).


If Lasers are broken, why are Hellcats and AHAX fairly wonderful fleetcomps.

This thread is stupid.

Srs.

Sincerely, The Universe.

These **** talkers clearly have never flown either. They also don't realize that in general, lasers work best on shield ships. A lot of people don't patch that EM hole.

LSE = 2625 Raw HP
XL ASB = 980 Raw HP/cycle
L ASB = 390 Raw HP/cycle

XL ASB > 1 LSE at 12 seconds into the fight.
L ASB > 1 LSE at 28 seconds into the fight.

1600 II = 4200 Raw HP
2x LAR II = 1600 Raw HP/Cycle (800 ea)
1 LAR > 1600 II at 90 sec into the fight (fires at the end of the cycle)
2 LAR > 1600 II at 45 sec into the fight (fires at the end of the cycle)

-Liang

On the test server, every 20 minutes or so.

And unless Rattle has a bullshit OP mod on it or 2, Bhaalgorn always wins.

LSE compares to 800mm plates, not 1600mm. Just as LAR2 compares with LSB2, and not the X-LSB2. Armor setups are given extra large plates, shield setups are given extra large reps. You should know this. ASB doesn't really compare to either setup.

You lost a Bhaal to a Mission Runner?
Were you even pointed?
Could you not cap him and run if you were pointed?
Did you not kill his drones?





So, to be clear... you are not mad now? You just would be mad IF if was on TQ. So this is not rage posting?

I might be necroing a bit here.. Or saying something said a little further up. But I read this and almost died laughing...

Lemme translate this: "I'm angry as hell right now because his free ship used a iWin button that made me lose my free iWin button ship.. Why didn't my ship at always wins, win? Nerf him for beating my iWin button!"

The only interesting thing is what people actually fit, not which ones people mentally equate via some (potentially outdated) model. This means that comparing a LAR to an 800 plate is just silly talk.

-Liang

Would a 1 per ship limit fix it in your eyes Liang? They do add new life to old ships. I'd hate to see them nerfed to uselessness.

Current shield boosters (not ancillary) are playtoys of the rich. You need crystal implants and a Tengu alt AND drugs to make them work in the first place. Balancing something to an obsolete, niche module is borked on many levels.

Did you know that a new XL ASB cyclone can tank 780 DPS for ~163 seconds and will also survive its reload giving it a life expectancy of 386 seconds. It will tank ~300k effective damage and during this time, it is almost wholly immune to neuts. ASBs as a whole are probably fine, but either fitting dual ASB or an oversized ASB is probably a bit too powerful.

As it was meant to be.

-Liang

Interesting numbers...

After 40 seconds (when the large and X-large ASBs run out of charges) you see the following:
LASB: 3900 repped.
LSB: 2400 repped
X-LASB: 9800 repped
X-LSB: 4800 repped.

After 100secs (at the end of reload) you see this:
LASB: 3900 repped.
LSB: 6000 repped
X-LASB: 9800 repped
X-LSB: 12000 repped.

Interesting numbers...

After 40 seconds (when the large and X-large ASBs run out of charges) you see the following:
LASB: 3900 repped.
LSB: 2400 repped
X-LASB: 9800 repped
X-LSB: 4800 repped.

After 100secs (at the end of reload) you see this:
LASB: 3900 repped.
LSB: 6000 repped
X-LASB: 9800 repped
X-LSB: 12000 repped.

ASBs are imbalanced because they give a tank immune to neutralizers. Everything should have a counter.

You might say that neutralizers are too good currently and I respond that this is only true on some ships (mostly the Hurricane). Single neutralizers on ships that actually have to make some sacrifices to fit one appropriate to their size class are not overpowered. ie. the "neutralizer problem" doesn't warrant adding something like the ASB.

What counter do buffer modules have besides "shoot it for a while"?

I think we've been through this already. A side by side comparison of shield extenders to ASBs without taking into account other factors is an incomplete perspective on ASBs because the amount of shield HP they can give can be drastically increased.

- Ships with a boost amount bonus (+37.5%)
- Shield boost amplifiers (+30%)
- Successfuly reloading during a fight (I know you believe this cannot happen under any circumstances but it does happen)
- Overloading the ASB (+10% boost amount, -15% cycle time)
- Blue Pill booster (+20% to +30%)

This whole discussion is incredibly stupid. Everyone in the alliance tournament chose ASBs over pure shield buffer fits even when they were restricted to 1x ASB. And here are people arguing that double ASBs are merely an equal alternative to shield extenders.

Alpha: BLAP. More DPS than it can handle: BLAP. The ASBs are better than LSEs in some situations and worse in others. As soon as you have more than the ~5000 DPS (9-10 BCs) on the field that any reasonable ASB tank can stand up to, the ASB ship will go down faster than skeet at a trap range.

See, this is why ASBs are broken. Blob more is not an acceptable counter. Have a nice day.

MASB only hold 10 charges. Dual MASB frigate fits are gimped on outgoing DPS as each booster requires 50 CPU to fit - that can eat into possible damage mods. MASB are fine.

LASB can hold 13 charges. I've only heard of these being dual fitted on Cyclones or Feroxes. You really need the shield bonuses of the ships to make them shine. It doesn't take alot of firepower to run these into the ground. More prevalent is the oversized X-LASB fits. A simple, elegant solution would be to crank up it's fitting requirement.

The 'max' numbers being thrown out are a hoot. I live in low sec. If someone is flying around in cyclones with a Tengu alt and crystal implants word is going to get around. He either won't get engaged OR will get blobbed. If you want to bring 4 billion in isk to the party I have no qualms about doing the same.

Then kite out his charges

So, I just had a test fight on SiSi.

It was a 1 v 1 fight versus a RATTLESNAKE in a BHAALGORN and I LOST.

My Bhaalgorn had 250 K EHP, 850 gun + 200 drone DPS, dual web, dual NOS, one neutralizer, one tracking computer with tracking scripts, one target painter, one warp scrambler and 4 T2 pulses with COnflagration L crystals.

The other guy had a generic mission carebear **** fit like all rattlesnakes do, the typical super passive+crap boring drones and pathetic 150 dps cruise missiles setup.

I got the guy into 5% shield FIVE ******* TIMES IN A ROW and he always bounced right up back to 70-100% in a few short seconds.

If this was a TQ fight I would have been ******* pissed for losing a Bhaalgorn to a **** fit mission rattlesnake with two bullshit overpowered mods on it.

Any word on when the F you intend to NERF the ASB or at least limit the son of a ***** to ONE per ship, CCP?

The other day I had this guy in a MERLIN tank SIX GUYS in CA 1 in PVH for 8 consecutive minutes using ASB.

No seriously, when are you nerfing that ****?

If you're going to leave it like that, at least make armor repairers or armor plates repair armor passively when inactive and work like an ASB when activated.

Seriously CCP, ASB is retardedly OP right now.

On the test server, every 20 minutes or so.

And unless Rattle has a bullshit OP mod on it or 2, Bhaalgorn always wins.