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Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 06:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright I normally don't get involved in the gripe fests that surround game mechanics. Personally I've played Eve off and on since 2004 with a few breaks here and there and seen many changes come to New Eden. Some for the better some for worse, but overall I must hand it to CCP they've kept me coming back for more with new opportunities and changes.
Eve to me has always basically been be whatever you want. Want to fight for a faction? Done. Want to make billions or risk losing it all in a Wormhole? Done. Research? Done. Be part of some conglomerate of null sec knuckleheads (grin) Done.
Myself Piracy has always been a dark lust. Preying upon those fool enough to step into the depths of unlawful space has been one of the main reasons why I love this game. Low sec to me has always been home. It's also where I have made some very good friends and seen some of the brightest players in Eve come and go over the years.
Yet today the announcement by CCP Greyscale stating Sentry Gun changes has me more than worried. This move could potentially destroy what is left of any activity in Low Sec. We all know the saying: Low Sec is dead. Why do you ask? Much of the traffic that was coming into low sec was due profit that was still viable a few years back.
Now with the major null sec alliances keeping a vice grip on any and everything it has shown that low sec is nothing but old news except sadly for systems you pass through on your way to null or back into high sec. For those of us still around it's still home.
Here is what was quoted by CCP Greyscale in the minutes released yesterday:
CSM minutes wrote: CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.
What does this mean? Essentially it is led up to interpretation but anyone "suspect" hence anyone with negative sec status will essentially be fired upon in low sec. GCC no longer becomes applicable and fights on gates now will be reduced to under 5 minutes or until all aggressor's are destroyed.
This also means that while traveling through Low Sec even without GCC someone would potentially be fired upon. This also means that Sentries will simply be untankable even with different persons sharing the aggression during a fight.
It effectively stops any combat after 5 minutes for the aggressor and further kills any sort of decent fight that may be had off a gate except for a quick gank and run which really isn't a decent fight anyways,
I personally feel this is a tremendous mistake not only due to Sentry mechanics, but how such mechanics will force players OUT of Low Sec permanently to either high sec or for many of us the unappealing systems in Null.
I understand some here may only see this in terms of Gatecamps. However it not only effects camps but the very combat mechanics that will now have to be dealt with in Low Sec putting anyone with low security status at a dismal disadvantage during a fight which would eventually end in a loss after 4 to 5 minutes regardless.
With such mechanics in place it has already been discussed by myself and others in my alliance that if such changes were indeed implemented we'd have no desire to move out to Null to conform and would most likely unsubscribe.
Many of us who live in Low Sec have played this game for far too long to see the last bit of what makes this game fun to us essentially twisted and contorted into a region that will now truly be "dead".
I beseech CCP Greyscale and others to rethink these mechanics not only for the players who call Low Sec home, but also in regards to the future limited combat in Low Sec which would thus make it truly unfavorable and unwanted.
If these changes do go into effect I for one will be unsubscribing all three of my accounts and simply moving on. It's not worth my time and money to be forced into regions of Eve I feel are hardly fun or appealing.
Please sign below if you agree. |
Alara IonStorm
2856
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 06:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
/Signed.
|
Serena Serene
Selective Hearing Nearly Feared
2315
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 06:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Is it sure "suspect" really means all people with a negative security status? Or could it have to do anything with changes to how "criminal flagging" works? I read about such a thing a while ago and now I'm not sure about the terminology here. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 06:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Serena Serene wrote:Is it sure "suspect" really means all people with a negative security status? Or could it have to do anything with changes to how "criminal flagging" works? I read about such a thing a while ago and now I'm not sure about the terminology here.
It is up to interpretation and has such a grey area which is what worries me. There has been no in depth details on what "suspect" actually is which could very well mean security status.
The very fact that sentries would be able to break anything up to and including a triage carrier in 5 minutes makes this even more unacceptable. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:/Signed.
Thanks. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
605
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can my Domi, be allowed to fit a few of those into it? I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Pipa Porto
618
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Serena Serene wrote:Is it sure "suspect" really means all people with a negative security status? Or could it have to do anything with changes to how "criminal flagging" works? I read about such a thing a while ago and now I'm not sure about the terminology here. It is up to interpretation and has such a grey area which is what worries me. There has been no in depth details on what "suspect" actually is which could very well mean security status. The very fact that sentries would be able to break anything up to and including a triage carrier in 5 minutes makes this even more unacceptable.
"Suspect" is their new, wide reaching Crimewatch replacement for aggression flags.
The "Suspect" flag is pretty terrible for other reasons, but having crazy-strong sentry guns shooting you for looting the field or helping your friend who's been attacked while looting the field is adding extra terrible on top of the terrible that it brings to HS combat. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Tara Read wrote:Serena Serene wrote:Is it sure "suspect" really means all people with a negative security status? Or could it have to do anything with changes to how "criminal flagging" works? I read about such a thing a while ago and now I'm not sure about the terminology here. It is up to interpretation and has such a grey area which is what worries me. There has been no in depth details on what "suspect" actually is which could very well mean security status. The very fact that sentries would be able to break anything up to and including a triage carrier in 5 minutes makes this even more unacceptable. "Suspect" is their new, wide reaching Crimewatch replacement for aggression flags. The "Suspect" flag is pretty terrible for other reasons, but having crazy-strong sentry guns shooting you for looting the field or helping your friend who's been attacked while looting the field is adding extra terrible on top of the terrible that it brings to HS combat.
So they essentially replaced aggression timers with a blanket reasoning to shoot you. Interesting how they thought this would bring more people to low sec. Missioners sure but combat wise? Hardly. |
Alice Saki
1253
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
...I already get enough hassle from the Navy in Highsec, Do we really need this? Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, GINGER PRIDE xD Oh and PICKLES! |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
97
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
/signed even though this doesn't really affect me
Pipa Porto wrote:
"Suspect" is their new, wide reaching Crimewatch replacement for aggression flags.
The "Suspect" flag is pretty terrible for other reasons, but having crazy-strong sentry guns shooting you for looting the field or helping your friend who's been attacked while looting the field is adding extra terrible on top of the terrible that it brings to HS combat.
This. Given his recent track record of proposed changes, I wouldn't count on CCP Greyscale formulating a reasonable reply. His posts in threads about the crimewatch changes were awful. |
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
/signed
Ps.: I have no problem spending my money on another Game CCP. |
Alara IonStorm
2858
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: So they essentially replaced aggression timers with a blanket reasoning to shoot you. Interesting how they thought this would bring more people to low sec. Missioners sure but combat wise? Hardly.
I don't know about bringing missioners. I mean since there is a ramp up that can't even off a Ceptor to start they will still be grabed at gates by positive sec tackle and have a bunch of guys just off grid warp in and gank them quick. Sides that the same probing mechanics and all still apply. I don't really see any extra safty to Missioners, Newbie Explorers and other easy ganks. They will still get the brunt of it in the 8 or so different ways I thought of to screw them over in the first 10secs after I read this.
I have seen a Triage Archon camping a gate before. We just finished offing their first Navy Geddon when it dropped in and our fleet could not break their tank so we warped out. We lost the fight because they had a Superior force which is what is supposed to happen. Nothing that could be thought of as anything but a fleet fight albeit lopsided (EVE) would be better off if that Archon wasn't there.
This seems to IMO just lessen real fights and play into the hands of swift gankers popping little guys. Perhaps this is CCP's replacement mechanic for the Barge Buff.
|
Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
A petition to CCP Greyscale on Sentry Mechanics .
Maybe better "A petition to CCP Greyscale STOP MAKING WOW OUT OF EVE ".
CCP Greyscale start playing game a bit?Your changes to any in EVE are just sign that you don't have clue what you are doing. You want to prevent blobing on gates and in same time you are killing solo pvp almost fully in low sec.
WTF is that CCP Greyscale?You want to make game so dumb that you get more subs or what ?Blizzard did that and guess what ,you have many player that couldn't play **** easy game migrated to EVE.And now you want to do same to EVE.
Go to Blizzard man and we wish you luck .Or if nothing try to play this game for moment and have some idea what you are doing.And that is safe heaven for all people in high sec and null to be as much stupid as they want.Why ? Cause both areas are carebear heavens nothing more nothing less.If you thing real pvp is get moon goo and make 1000 ships and put 999 mindless guys with one that "know" something ,than I am sad to say this was once nice game. |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
If capitals on gates is a problem (personally I've never seen any capitals camping lowsec gates) then the most logical step would be to add citadel torpedo launchers that only target capitals. An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
47
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:If capitals on gates is a problem (personally I've never seen any capitals camping lowsec gates) then the most logical step would be to add citadel torpedo launchers that only target capitals.
I've only seen a Moros once off a Low Sec gate and we just about killed it. No serious Pirate is going to risk a capital off a gate with titan bridge's and the like around. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
179
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
A statement from greyscale that may be to the detriment of the game
I am surprised! |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
47
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ana Fox wrote:A petition to CCP Greyscale on Sentry Mechanics .
Maybe better "A petition to CCP Greyscale STOP MAKING WOW OUT OF EVE ".
CCP Greyscale start playing game a bit?Your changes to any in EVE are just sign that you don't have clue what you are doing. You want to prevent blobing on gates and in same time you are killing solo pvp almost fully in low sec.
WTF is that CCP Greyscale?You want to make game so dumb that you get more subs or what ?Blizzard did that and guess what ,you have many player that couldn't play **** easy game migrated to EVE.And now you want to do same to EVE.
Go to Blizzard man and we wish you luck .Or if nothing try to play this game for moment and have some idea what you are doing.And that is safe heaven for all people in high sec and null to be as much stupid as they want.Why ? Cause both areas are carebear heavens nothing more nothing less.If you thing real pvp is get moon goo and make 1000 ships and put 999 mindless guys with one that "know" something ,than I am sad to say this was once nice game.
Piracy is probably the last bastion of what one would call "pvp". I love the small gangs, the people you get to know personally and the role you play. It's not just hit F1 and alpha something with 300 other pilots to prop up your mistake. Sadly Null sec fights quickly turn into a war of attrition where these people think holding "sov" makes you somehow superior.
Small gang warfare and fights are the only thing that pretty much keep me coming back. Well that and the tremendous amount of tears. Oh lord those tears are so so sweet... |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
214
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Just when I thought CCP could not get more ********........
The ramping up sounds dumb, should have just changed tracking mechanics so that smaller ships would have a chance on the gate, as long as they kept transversal up. Hitting bigger targets harder is fine...but having the guns attack everyone with negative sec status at once...?? How does that make any sense?
Some of the other ideas are just as crazy, if it's true they are talking about removing POS shields, then Supers are dead, only as matter of time.
Nerf the game into Oblivion CCP, let us know how it works out...... "CCP, is a cutting edge developer, they have found a way to sell lag to their customers, and make them believe it's a feature." |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
48
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Tara Read wrote: So they essentially replaced aggression timers with a blanket reasoning to shoot you. Interesting how they thought this would bring more people to low sec. Missioners sure but combat wise? Hardly.
I don't know about bringing missioners. I mean since there is a ramp up that can't even off a Ceptor to start they will still be grabed at gates by positive sec tackle and have a bunch of guys just off grid warp in and gank them quick. Sides that the same probing mechanics and all still apply. I don't really see any extra safty to Missioners, Newbie Explorers and other easy ganks. They will still get the brunt of it in the 8 or so different ways I thought of to screw them over in the first 10secs after I read about this mechanic. I have seen a Triage Archon camping a gate before. We just finished offing their first Navy Geddon in a Faction BS Fleet they had when it dropped in and our fleet could not break their tank so we warped out. We lost the fight with casualties because they had a Superior force which is what is supposed to happen. Nothing that could be thought of as anything but a fleet fight albeit lopsided (EVE) would be better off if that Archon wasn't there. The lone Gank victem would have died to those ships anyway. This seems to IMO just lessen real fights and play into the hands of swift gankers popping little guys. Perhaps this is CCP's replacement mechanic for the gankers who lost out on the Barge Buff.
It will make good fights more and more scarce that is for certain. I could care less if I lose a ship if it's in one hell of a damned good fight.
|
Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Oh the Pirate tears, delicious :) |
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Guess its just what Sony tells CCP: Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)... |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
48
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:Guess its just what Sony tells CCP: Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)...
I never even thought about the inability to ransom someone. Well this actually DOES kill Piracy in it's truest form..... |
Pipa Porto
618
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hazen Koraka wrote:Oh the Pirate tears, delicious :)
Let's compare situations.
When the changes in Crucible were announced, the miners cheered, proudly proclaiming that Suicide Ganking would end. And the Ice interdiction never repeated.
Then, when neither happened, they started crying big wet tears and entirely forgot that their ships were more expensive than ever to gank.
They got their tanks (cost to gank) effectively buffed by a good margin, and cried about the results.
The gate gun change eliminates the PvP equivalent to mining, that's often the only significant source of income for pirates who don't have income generating alts. The pirates have taken notice, and are pointing out the bad effects this will have.
If the changes do go into effect, pirates will keep camping, they'll just have to use different (and probably more effective) means to do it. They'll adapt (though the LS population will likely shrink again).
Basically, "Don't kill gate camping" != "Oh God, I'm helpless, please change the game so I don't have to learn to X" EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Lifewire
TunDraGon
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP... |
alittlebirdy
All Hail The Liopleurodon
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
/signed
Also + fire this guy... these ideas should never have even been mentioned.
Ya the carrier dies at 4 and 1/2 min of what? gun fire ONLY? or being shot at too by the fleet on it?
HOW THICK CAN YOU BE?
o ya... so if NO ONE shoots the carrier it dies in 4 and 1/2 min... um and if they do? What are we down to? 1min? LAWL...
ALL this does... ganks = easier (remote sebo the **** out of a ceptor who won't insta die) ALL g/fs are GONE as you can not say on a gate... that's it... no gang jumps into another and dukes it out...
I can't wait to see fleets of like 50... sit on a gate and not aggro because of the guns ROFL.
They do this I'm out. Not even going to give a chance for them to fix it either... if this gets put on the table... eve's time is marked. IDC about "eve is dying" it will be if CCP takes this route. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
48
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Hazen Koraka wrote:Oh the Pirate tears, delicious :) Let's compare situations. When the changes in Crucible were announced, the miners cheered, proudly proclaiming that Suicide Ganking would end. And the Ice interdiction never repeated. Then, when neither happened, they started crying big wet tears and entirely forgot that their ships were more expensive than ever to gank. They got their tanks (cost to gank) effectively buffed by a good margin, and cried about the results. The gate gun change eliminates the PvP equivalent to mining, that's often the only significant source of income for pirates who don't have income generating alts. The pirates have taken notice, and are pointing out the bad effects this will have. If the changes do go into effect, pirates will keep camping, they'll just have to use different (and probably more effective) means to do it. They'll adapt (though the LS population will likely shrink again). Basically, "Don't kill gate camping" != "Oh God, I'm helpless, please change the game so I don't have to learn to X"
There is no adapting here. All the decent fights will be moot due to a timer applied once aggression starts. All you will have is even cheaper means of snagging kills instead of people actually committing to a fight. Yeah there's no (pirate) honor in that.
|
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
131
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
MY CAMPING BACKBONE!
There are plenty of other ways/places to get a fight. HTFU. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Hazen Koraka wrote:Oh the Pirate tears, delicious :) Let's compare situations. When the changes in Crucible were announced, the miners cheered, proudly proclaiming that Suicide Ganking would end. And the Ice interdiction never repeated. Then, when neither happened, they started crying big wet tears and entirely forgot that their ships were more expensive than ever to gank. They got their tanks (cost to gank) effectively buffed by a good margin, and cried about the results. The gate gun change eliminates the PvP equivalent to mining, that's often the only significant source of income for pirates who don't have income generating alts. The pirates have taken notice, and are pointing out the bad effects this will have. If the changes do go into effect, pirates will keep camping, they'll just have to use different (and probably more effective) means to do it. They'll adapt (though the LS population will likely shrink again). Basically, "Don't kill gate camping" != "Oh God, I'm helpless, please change the game so I don't have to learn to X"
Sure we are going to adapt...no question about it. BUT if you cannot even loot the field you can not make money. If you can not ransom, you can not make money. Do not even dream of saving a cyno bait under this circumstances.... Additionally I am curious if station guns also shoot everyxthing upwards a suspect...try to dock with a frig under this circumstances...undocking with a warp out may work, but if docking is delayed just some seconds you can forget frigs in lowsec compleatly |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
48
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Soi Mala wrote:MY CAMPING BACKBONE!
There are plenty of other ways/places to get a fight. HTFU.
Meet me in Nandeza at planet 1. I'd love to hear your contribution to this discussion
|
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
145
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
/signed
Does Greyscale think that this change will improve combat in low-sec? Wouldn't be the first time he made changes, the results of which were the exact opposite of his stated intentions. And coming back a year later and telling us all "oops" was kind of too late. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
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Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
You guys not able to pew pew elsewhere besides at gates?
Oh wait, right, I forgot - gate mechanics, one of the puzzle pieces that have always severely debuffed PvP in general. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
98
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
OP assumes that Greyscale understands and plays this game (other than mining), he doesn't. None of the gameplay changes he's working on make sense from a PVP sandbox POV, all I see it "simplify everything because I can't code it with any more granularity, who really cares if that messes up the game. As long as we curb the evil PVPers and create a haven for carebears we're good". Amat victoria curam. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
48
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:You guys not able to pew pew elsewhere besides at gates?
Oh wait, right, I forgot - gate mechanics, one of the puzzle pieces that have always severely debuffed PvP in general.
Dohoho http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Gillia+Winddancer |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Muahahaha |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
Yes and your point is...what exactly?
Go right ahead and explain it. In detail please. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
50
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Yes and your point is...what exactly? Go right ahead and explain it. In detail please.
Number one you are assuming all fights in Low Sec are off gates which is not true.
Number two you assume Pirates only fight on gates because it is either easier or we're lazy.
Number three you run your mouth without any sort of evidence pointing to what other mechanics are equally pressing besides breaking an entire region of space in Eve. Also your tone is rather rude and annoying.
Number four your "extensive" combat knowledge seems to be lacking. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
179
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Soi Mala wrote:MY CAMPING BACKBONE!
There are plenty of other ways/places to get a fight. HTFU.
Do people who post garbage like this even think about ... well, anything? Telling people to just ignore awful changes to an area of the game because some other areas aren't being changed is just mindboggling. It must be trolling. |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:Yes and your point is...what exactly? Go right ahead and explain it. In detail please. Number one you are assuming all fights in Low Sec are off gates which is not true. Number two you assume Pirates only fight on gates because it is either easier or we're lazy. Number three you run your mouth without any sort of evidence pointing to what other mechanics are equally pressing besides breaking an entire region of space in Eve. Also your tone is rather rude and annoying. Number four your "extensive" combat knowledge seems to be lacking.
Number 1: Incorrect - I, like everyone else knows that most fights come from games/station games. Then again, even a fool would realize this pretty quickly with the way the gate system (as well as how the current "ship detection" system) works. And that was my entire point that I made too. You cannot really effectively have fights anywhere else because of it and I think this limits EVE a great deal.
Number 2: Correct. I do assume exactly that because the best way to get kills is obviously at the point where you actually have a chance at catching a victim. I do not say that you are lazy, but that you are forced to this one option to get kills. Which again, is due to the gate system, which is bad. And again, this is also one of the main reasons as to why low and nullsec is not as populated as some would like them to be as it creates a stale-mate between those in high-sec and low-sec.
Number 3: There are lots of mechanics that are equally pressing. I happen to look at the whole picture as I am perfectly aware you cannot just rip out the gate system or any other major functionality in EVE and replace it without affecting a dozen other things. Once again, were you to rip out the gate system into a much more liberal form you would also be forced to rip out and change the whole way you actually FIND other ships and catch them as well. Which in turn would most likely require a rework in the way stealth works as well cause that would most likely end up being hopelessly overused the way it is now. And so on and so forth. That is why I said "one of the puzzle pieces". And also...throw stones in glass houses much?
Number 4: You are actually rather correct here. Practical knowledge is rather limited and whilst I have quite a lot of theory through who knows how many videos and countless of tactics from single pvp to full fleet scale, practical knowledge is that much more valuable. My time in low and null as an industrialist was somewhat limited and ever since I came back to EVE a few months ago I ended up trying a whole new branch and moved into trading. |
ugh zug
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
weren't they untankable when they first came into the game? right now they are not working as intended, and the fix is long overdue.
y'all complaining about it, but really when was the last time CCP even gave lowsec the time of day? think of it this way while they are doing this to gate guns what else are they going to put in to lowsec? there might be more features yet to be iterated on and announced, and hey it might even be something you wanted. Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
52
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Tara Read wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:Yes and your point is...what exactly? Go right ahead and explain it. In detail please. Number one you are assuming all fights in Low Sec are off gates which is not true. Number two you assume Pirates only fight on gates because it is either easier or we're lazy. Number three you run your mouth without any sort of evidence pointing to what other mechanics are equally pressing besides breaking an entire region of space in Eve. Also your tone is rather rude and annoying. Number four your "extensive" combat knowledge seems to be lacking. Number 1: Incorrect - I, like everyone else knows that most fights come from games/station games. Then again, even a fool would realize this pretty quickly with the way the gate system (as well as how the current "ship detection" system) works. And that was my entire point that I made too. You cannot really effectively have fights anywhere else because of it and I think this limits EVE a great deal. Number 2: Correct. I do assume exactly that because the best way to get kills is obviously at the point where you actually have a chance at catching a victim. I do not say that you are lazy, but that you are forced to this one option to get kills. Which again, is due to the gate system, which is bad. And again, this is also one of the main reasons as to why low and nullsec is not as populated as some would like them to be as it creates a stale-mate between those in high-sec and low-sec. Number 3: There are lots of mechanics that are equally pressing. I happen to look at the whole picture as I am perfectly aware you cannot just rip out the gate system or any other major functionality in EVE and replace it without affecting a dozen other things. Once again, were you to rip out the gate system into a much more liberal form you would also be forced to rip out and change the whole way you actually FIND other ships and catch them as well. Which in turn would most likely require a rework in the way stealth works as well cause that would most likely end up being hopelessly overused the way it is now. And so on and so forth. That is why I said "one of the puzzle pieces". And also...throw stones in glass houses much? Number 4: You are actually rather correct here. Practical knowledge is rather limited and whilst I have quite a lot of theory through who knows how many videos and countless of tactics from single pvp to full fleet scale, practical knowledge is that much more valuable. My time in low and null as an industrialist was somewhat limited and ever since I came back to EVE a few months ago I ended up trying a whole new branch and moved into trading.
(In response to point one) Really you assume most fights are station games? If this is your assumption of Eve pvp you really are sadly mistaken. Gates play a vital role in being one of two methods of travel in which players traverse systems in Eve. They also provide Pirates with a means to capture targets of value or ransom.
In case you failed to realize Ransoms are typically the one way a Pirate actually makes isk besides drops from wrecks. Besides having alt accounts to make isk other ways this is the primary bread and butter or it used to be before traffic slowed to a trickle in most regions.
Also let it be known that most predetermined fights will be made by both sides agreeing to go to either a planet or said point in space so as to avoid an unfair advantage due to sentry fire. This happens quite often especially for smaller gangs looking for a good fight.
(In response to point two) Again gates may yield the most targets yet there are many other factors. Are there any people running missions in said system? Are there people in a WH or a pos? Is there people doing PI or perhaps mining? You see targets do present themselves and gates are only a means in which to capture those entering system. Not those already in the system.
(In response to point three) Gates have always been around since the very first days of Eve. I doubt CCP would rip out the gate system. If anything they would create another form of travel besides jump drives and gates.
(In response to point four) Next time post something with points like you did earlier instead of a sarcastic remark. You'll be taken more serious that way. |
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
ugh zug wrote:weren't they untankable when they first came into the game? right now they are not working as intended, and the fix is long overdue. y'all complaining about it, but really when was the last time CCP even gave lowsec the time of day? think of it this way while they are doing this to gate guns what else are they going to put in to lowsec? there might be more features yet to be iterated on and announced, and hey it might even be something you wanted.
Yes because we want 4 minute and thirty second fights and nothing else....
|
Helen Tredius
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Alright I normally don't get involved in the gripe fests that surround game mechanics. Personally I've played Eve off and on since 2004 with a few breaks here and there and seen many changes come to New Eden. Some for the better some for worse, but overall I must hand it to CCP they've kept me coming back for more with new opportunities and changes.
Eve to me has always basically been be whatever you want. Want to fight for a faction? Done. Want to make billions or risk losing it all in a Wormhole? Done. Research? Done. Be part of some conglomerate of null sec knuckleheads (grin) Done.
Myself Piracy has always been a dark lust. Preying upon those fool enough to step into the depths of unlawful space has been one of the main reasons why I love this game. Low sec to me has always been home. It's also where I have made some very good friends and seen some of the brightest players in Eve come and go over the years.
Yet today the announcement by CCP Greyscale stating Sentry Gun changes has me more than worried. This move could potentially destroy what is left of any activity in Low Sec. We all know the saying: Low Sec is dead. Why do you ask? Much of the traffic that was coming into low sec was due profit that was still viable a few years back.
Now with the major null sec alliances keeping a vice grip on any and everything it has shown that low sec is nothing but old news except sadly for systems you pass through on your way to null or back into high sec. For those of us still around it's still home.
Here is what was quoted by CCP Greyscale in the minutes released yesterday:
CSM minutes wrote: CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.
What does this mean? Essentially it is led up to interpretation but anyone "suspect" hence anyone with negative sec status will essentially be fired upon in low sec. GCC no longer becomes applicable and fights on gates now will be reduced to under 5 minutes or until all aggressor's are destroyed.
This also means that while traveling through Low Sec even without GCC someone would potentially be fired upon. This also means that Sentries will simply be untankable even with different persons sharing the aggression during a fight.
It effectively stops any combat after 5 minutes for the aggressor and further kills any sort of decent fight that may be had off a gate except for a quick gank and run which really isn't a decent fight anyways,
I personally feel this is a tremendous mistake not only due to Sentry mechanics, but how such mechanics will force players OUT of Low Sec permanently to either high sec or for many of us the unappealing systems in Null.
I understand some here may only see this in terms of Gatecamps. However it not only effects camps but the very combat mechanics that will now have to be dealt with in Low Sec putting anyone with low security status at a dismal disadvantage during a fight which would eventually end in a loss after 4 to 5 minutes regardless.
With such mechanics in place it has already been discussed by myself and others in my alliance that if such changes were indeed implemented we'd have no desire to move out to Null to conform and would most likely unsubscribe.
Many of us who live in Low Sec have played this game for far too long to see the last bit of what makes this game fun to us essentially twisted and contorted into a region that will now truly be "dead".
I beseech CCP Greyscale and others to rethink these mechanics not only for the players who call Low Sec home, but also in regards to the future limited combat in Low Sec which would thus make it truly unfavorable and unwanted.
If these changes do go into effect I for one will be unsubscribing all three of my accounts and simply moving on. It's not worth my time and money to be forced into regions of Eve I feel are hardly fun or appealing.
Please sign below if you agree.
Not living in low but agree with every word of yours.
/Signed
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Cyprus Black
Perkone Caldari State
292
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
I would like to start a petition that cancels out this petition. A game change that's actually an improvement to lowsec is a good thing and these morons want to keep the currently broken status quo?
Nay I say. Give a like and quote this post to show that common sense triumphs over stupid lowsec morons who are just in it for easy kills (I'm also a like *****). Hijinks of a highsec pirate http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:I would like to start a petition that cancels out this petition. A game change that's actually an improvement to lowsec is a good thing and these morons want to keep the currently broken status quo?
Nay I say. Give a like and quote this post to show that common sense triumphs over stupid lowsec morons who are just in it for easy kills (I'm also a like *****).
Hah. Don't make me choke. If we're the "morons" why do the genius's keep jumping in blind eh? |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
180
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
ugh zug wrote:weren't they untankable when they first came into the game? right now they are not working as intended, and the fix is long overdue. y'all complaining about it, but really when was the last time CCP even gave lowsec the time of day? think of it this way while they are doing this to gate guns what else are they going to put in to lowsec? there might be more features yet to be iterated on and announced, and hey it might even be something you wanted.
Know what doesn't improve lowse? Adding mechanics that put hard caps on fighting or other player driven activities, I mean a four and a half minute time limit (and thats in the case of a triage carrier taking no damage except from gate guns... how long do subcaps, or even carriers that are getting shot at by other players, last?) is not conducive to good fights. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
180
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:I would like to start a petition that cancels out this petition. A game change that's actually an improvement to lowsec is a good thing and these morons want to keep the currently broken status quo?
Nay I say. Give a like and quote this post to show that common sense triumphs over stupid lowsec morons who are just in it for easy kills (I'm also a like *****).
Except that this isn't an improvement at all. You seem buttsore about lazy meanie head gankers just after cheap easy kills but these changes will reduce lowsec to nothing BUT that, as any bigger or more meaningful engagements will be artificially prevented. You'll see a RISE in the amount of people who are only out for easy quick ganks, as it'll be the only game in town. |
Bunolagus
NIPTO
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
I support the changes and would like to see gatecamping impossible in lowsec. Yes, I am a carebear and no I will not HTFU. |
Tex Raynor
Quiet.Storm Test Friends Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
A lowsec pirate myself, I would usually tend to side with you.
However, it seems to me the proposed change only affects those sitting on gate and would reset if you leave and come back. We usually camp a gate this way, sitting at safe spots to give scouts the false impression the gate is safe.
So yes, the change discussed favors the victim if the fight goes for longer than the few minutes it usually should take.
If this brings more poeple into lowsec with a false sense of security, so be it I say. Personally, my way of gate camping remains unaffected, if not boosted in the first 30 seconds of the fight. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
79
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Bunolagus wrote:I support the changes and would like to see gatecamping impossible in lowsec. Yes, I am a carebear and no I will not HTFU.
I will just skill up my scanning abilities to max and gank every mission runner and site runner I can find....did not do it before but now ccp forces my hand. |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Bunolagus wrote:I support the changes and would like to see gatecamping impossible in lowsec. Yes, I am a carebear and no I will not HTFU.
Even if do not live in lowsec AND I don't care too much for gate camps... I still don't wanna see them go alltogether.
What I would like, though, would be a reduction of useless camps, both on stations and gates... you know, those where people just blow you up 'cause they can, no matter what ship you fly. "I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way."
Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778 |
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Aruken Marr
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
251
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:38:00 -
[51] - Quote
At first I thought 'don't like gate guns? Move to null/npc null'
But then I realised how bad these changes are wherever you play. Enough dps to pop a triage carrier... what? The whole suspect mechanics reeks of carebear bullshit. Get it out. This just sounds bad for EVE.
/signed |
Cyprus Black
Perkone Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
Finally! Trade can finally come to lowsec. Players can enter in ship sizes larger than frigates. EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped. Corporations now have a legitimate reason to live in lowsec. Miners and explorers now have an acceptable margin of risk. The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance. PI can really take off now. Corporations are more inclined to moon mine lesser materials. There will be a massive influx of players for pirates to shoot at.
Finally! The most neglected aspect of this game is finally starting to receive love. You bitter vets who hate change of any kind, you're welcome to cancel all five million of your accounts. The game will be changing and your inability/unwillingness to adapt is your own fault. Good riddance. Hijinks of a highsec pirate http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
Aruken Marr
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
251
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Finally! Trade can finally come to lowsec. Players can enter in ship sizes larger than frigates. EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped. Corporations now have a legitimate reason to live in lowsec. Miners and explorers now have an acceptable margin of risk. The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance. PI can really take off now. Corporations are more inclined to moon mine lesser materials. There will be a massive influx of players for pirates to shoot at.
You really thing carebears will move to losec with the suppression of gatecamps? The mere possibility of getting shot at keeps these guys wrapped up in hisec |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Finally! Trade can finally come to lowsec. Players can enter in ship sizes larger than frigates. EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped. Corporations now have a legitimate reason to live in lowsec. Miners and explorers now have an acceptable margin of risk. The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance. PI can really take off now. Corporations are more inclined to moon mine lesser materials. There will be a massive influx of players for pirates to shoot at.
Finally! The most neglected aspect of this game is finally starting to receive love. You bitter vets who hate change of any kind, you're welcome to cancel all five million of your accounts. The game will be changing and your inability/unwillingness to adapt is your own fault. Good riddance.
Whilst I think that the changes will result in this, I am a bit more doubtful on how much of an impact it will actually have.
Curing a syndrome is never the same as curing the disease itself. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
174
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tex Raynor wrote:A lowsec pirate myself, I would usually tend to side with you.
However, it seems to me the proposed change only affects those sitting on gate and would reset if you leave and come back. We usually camp a gate this way, sitting at safe spots to give scouts the false impression the gate is safe.
So yes, the change discussed favors the victim if the fight goes for longer than the few minutes it usually should take.
If this brings more people into lowsec with a false sense of security, so be it I say. Personally, my way of gate camping remains unaffected, if not boosted in the first 30 seconds of the fight.
The question is: does the DPS reset when you warp out.
If not, then signed, both accounts.
If yes, piracy remains healthy with more self-entitled, clueless and juicy targets. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1783
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aruken Marr wrote: You really thing carebears will move to losec with the suppression of gatecamps? The mere possibility of getting shot at keeps these guys wrapped up in hisec
Imo this thing done alone would be just half assed.
I can see the benefits ad weakening gate camps, most other games give multiple ways to go around obvious choke / camp points.
What'd be needed to make the thing work would be to figure out a way to make PvP happen all around the systems not just at gates, stations, POSes and pockets / anoms. The first two are too obvious and camp-able, the latter are too "out of the way".
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Pipa Porto
619
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped.
I've been ferrying stuff to and fro through multiple different LS access points, and I have to say, not one was camped (I don't even think they had been camped at any time the day I used them, as Dotlan didn't show any number of kills).
There are a few LS access points that are commonly camped, but of the dozens of available access points, it's not many.
Let's get some examples: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Ubtes 4 Kills in 48hrs, Access to the Great Wildlands and Right by Rens. Probably not a Camp going on there. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Astabih 1 kill in 48hrs. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Uanzin 1 kill in 48hrs.
How about some stuff on the way to Curse: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Jaymass 0 Kills in 48 hours, and there's certainly evidence of activity. Must be a really efficient gate camp. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Mifrata 1 kill in 48hrs.
Maybe somewhere busier would suit better, like the Forge: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Ohkunen 6 kills in 48 hours. On the way to LS Lonetrek and the Vale of the Silent.
13 kills among 6 LS entrance systems over 48 hours. Clearly, all LS entrance systems must be Perma camped.
Let's look at some more dangerous systems: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Akora http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Maila Open the way to Geminate and Etherium Reach, in addition to LS Metropolis. Busier, at 30 kills and 41 kills, respectively in 24hrs (compared to 2675 and 614 jumps, also respectively), but each have stretches at least 6 hours long with no kills (suggesting that any camp there may be is most certainly not "perma"). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
I don't hang around Low Sec, but I am actually wondering...was this a change which the community openly asked for?
While I see a ton of threads about suicide ganking or about the amount of damage a barge or exhumer can take, I don't remember a single discussion on the performance of gate guns.
If a Triage carrier dies in 4 minutes, how would it take for a (say) Catalyst to suicide a potential target? Seconds? Would it be even possible?
When they say an Interceptor would be able to do a "quick tackle and warpout"...how QUICK are we talking about?
I don't like this one bit, and I don't know what's making CCP suggest these changes when there are a ton of other things that could do with the attentino and resources.
|
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:01:00 -
[59] - Quote
I have a much better idea for "fixing" low-sec: - remove gateguns - add bubbles and bombs GÇô postum faex est GÇô-á
never forget
|
Aruken Marr
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
251
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Aruken Marr wrote: You really thing carebears will move to losec with the suppression of gatecamps? The mere possibility of getting shot at keeps these guys wrapped up in hisec
Imo this thing done alone would be just half assed.
It sounds incredibly half assed. It's like a gate only concord but will shoot at anything with this suspect flag being thrown around. Hoping that isnt just negative sec status.
Quote:I can see the benefits ad weakening gate camps, most other games give multiple ways to go around obvious choke / camp points.
There already are ways around this. It just requires a little more effort than following the shortest autopilot route.
|
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
180
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Finally! Trade can finally come to lowsec. Players can enter in ship sizes larger than frigates. EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped. Corporations now have a legitimate reason to live in lowsec. Miners and explorers now have an acceptable margin of risk. The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance. PI can really take off now. Corporations are more inclined to moon mine lesser materials. There will be a massive influx of players for pirates to shoot at.
Finally! The most neglected aspect of this game is finally starting to receive love. You bitter vets who hate change of any kind, you're welcome to cancel all five million of your accounts. The game will be changing and your inability/unwillingness to adapt is your own fault. Good riddance.
Are you dense? If anything this is a buff to gate camps - interceptors and frigs now being able to hang around and get initial tackles is something that is explicitly stated as a goal. The only thing that this prevents is bigger, more meaningful conflict. As has already been pointed out, but you keep purposefully ignoring those posts and just screaming about "bitter vets who hate change" and lazy pirates after "easy kills", etc.
PS: Hisec baddies don't avoid lowsec because of gate camps, they avoid lowsec because all of lowsec poses a danger to their little carebear ships, not just the entrance. This won't rejuvenate lowsec, it'll just make it more dead. |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
106
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:12:00 -
[62] - Quote
Aruken Marr wrote:You really thing carebears will move to losec with the suppression of gatecamps? The mere possibility of getting shot at keeps these guys wrapped up in hisec
Oh come one, that's jung chi duh go-se dway, and you know it... people just have accepted that going into low is out of the question for anything other then PvP these days, cause almost all gates from 0.4 down are perma camped 24/7.
That's half of the game not accessable to non combateers... "I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way."
Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778 |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
180
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:13:00 -
[63] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:[quote=Aruken Marr]cause almost all gates from 0.4 down are perma camped 24/7.
6/10 would lol again
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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
174
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:14:00 -
[64] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote: cause almost all gates from 0.4 down are perma camped 24/7.
Is your source wikipedia? |
Alara IonStorm
2861
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Shalua Rui wrote: cause almost all gates from 0.4 down are perma camped 24/7.
Is your source wikipedia? Wikipedia has never been that inaccurate.
|
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
106
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Wikipedia has never been that inaccurate.
My impression, nothing more... I'm back in the game for what? 3 weeks now, and lost every single ship I took to 0.4 since then... "I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way."
Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778 |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
159
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
A recap and a reemphasizing of some points:
1. To even desire to nerf Rancer or Amamake is just wrongheaded. These system names have a weight to them, they're meaningful, like Jita or Arnon are meaningful, they're names worth remembering and fearing and they're systems which are sharply differentiated from other lowsec systems. Successfully nerfing them would make the game more boring, would just turn them into Yet Another Empty Lowsec System; Who Even Cares What It's Called - of which we have plenty already.
2. This plan, which carebears praise for its potential to reduce Rancer/Amamake to boring space, actually fails to do that; instead, it nerfs all of lowsec, making all of lowsec in ways much more dangerous to travel through for those of us who've decided to learn the bloody game, and in other ways making it less hospitable to gang pvp. You can gank - but you can't fight!
3. If you want a more populated lowsec, teach people how to play the game. If you try to people the game as it is right now, prior to this proposal, then at some point you'll explain why frigates are so great for moving around lowsec, you'll point out some problems with how the "grind highsec missions from L1 to L4" experience makes people think that they should wait to bring BCs or BSes into lowsec, you'll... realize that this proposal would destroy all of that advice.
Cyprus Black wrote:EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped.
This is the kind of person this change would appear to benefit: someone who has never once used a map to detect and avoid a camp. Pelayers could learn space, could learn that some areas are more dangerous than others, are inhabited by dangerous people whereas others have friendlier locals. Could learn through experience that you don't fly to your pod to Oso gate in Amamake. Players could see space as interesting, and be able to draw maps like this one of Stain.
Or you could buff people like Cyprus Black. If this measure fails, just keep trying, and one day totally clueless people will be able to fly blindly through lowsec -- but only from highsec to highsec, because the rewards for carebearing in lowsec will be the same rewards that never motivated Cyprus Black to learn how to use the map, and because cluelessly carebearing in lowsec will still get you killed.
Are tutorials really that hard to write? |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
181
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:23:00 -
[68] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Wikipedia has never been that inaccurate. My impression, nothing more... I'm back in the game for what? 3 weeks now, and lost every single ship I took to 0.4 since then...
Then stop being terrible / jumping into amamake. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
681
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:30:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:What does this mean? Essentially it is led up to interpretation but anyone "suspect" hence anyone with negative sec status will essentially be fired upon in low sec. GCC no longer becomes applicable and fights on gates now will be reduced to under 5 minutes or until all aggressor's are destroyed.
CCP want to force all lowsec inhibitants into FW. Welcome to Blob Online, where smallscale gameplay is hated by the devs. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
106
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Then stop being terrible / jumping into amamake.
So it's my fault that LOWsec essentially means NOsec these days? Sure... "I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way."
Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778 |
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
181
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:35:00 -
[71] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Then stop being terrible / jumping into amamake. So it's my fault that LOWsec essentially means NOsec these days? Sure...
Except it doesn't. Last time I checked there's still quite significant differences between camping a gate in null and one in lowsec. This is besides the point anyway, pvp is an intended part of EVE. Crying because you ran face first into some, rather than taking the time and effort to prepare or avoid it, is stupid. You're at fault here. |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
159
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:So it's my fault that LOWsec essentially means NOsec these days? Sure...
There are no bubbles or bombs. Sentry guns discourage fast tackle. Look at how 'dangerous' this space is. Be sure to compare that against its traffic.
People who think LOWsec means NOsec are not lowsec dwellers or people who would like to dwell there. They're people who want to make safer shortcuts through lowsec from one highsec trade hub to another highsec trade hub. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
681
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:44:00 -
[73] - Quote
Soi Mala wrote:MY CAMPING BACKBONE!
There are plenty of other ways/places to get a fight. HTFU.
There are plenty of other ways/places to get a fight. There is too much of blobbing, buffing of anti-combat, and this suggestion even flat out kills stuff like: ransoming, and combat escalation (hold down a target to have his friends come in and escalate the fight).
Basicly the OP is right. This is no whining. It is a direct attack on combat in EVE, and a minor buff to quick gatekills. That's it. But for proper combat, for ransoms, for escalations etc.. this is unecessary and directly detrimental for combat. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Then stop being terrible / jumping into amamake. So it's my fault that LOWsec essentially means NOsec these days? Sure...
I could point out a couple of systems in nullsec where you will learn, in epiphany form, the difference between a 0.0 camp and a Low Sec one.
The amount of things you are NOT allowed to do in Low Sec, now when you know what you CAN do in Null Sec, is amazing.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4383
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Finally! EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped.
I literally can't remember the last time I saw a lo-sec enterence point "permacamped". Or even camped at all. And I go through Rancer fairly often at EU peak TZ.
You are straight up lying. Deliberately telling an untruth. Making **** up.
Aren't you ashamed to attempt to win some kind of rhetorical victory with such naked dishonesty? Would you like to take a step back for a moment and consider that you are a person who publically tells lies about a video game in order to "win" an argument?
What kind of person would you call that?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Lucy Oreless
Raptus-Regaliter EntroPraetorian Aegis
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
Misanth wrote: and this suggestion even flat out kills stuff like: ransoming, and combat escalation (hold down a target to have his friends come in and escalate the fight).
Basicly the OP is right. This is no whining. It is a direct attack on combat in EVE, and a minor buff to quick gatekills. That's it. But for proper combat, for ransoms, for escalations etc.. this is unecessary and directly detrimental for combat.
Quoted for truth!
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4383
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:52:00 -
[77] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Then stop being terrible / jumping into amamake. So it's my fault that LOWsec essentially means NOsec these days? Sure...
It's absurdly easy and safe to travel through lo-sec these days. I moved a god damb Noctis through Rancer this wee for christ's sake.
FIT CLOAK
FIT MWD
JUMP IN
HIT ALIGN, MWD, CLOAK VERY CLOSE TOGETHER
UNCLOAK WHEN MWD STOPS
INSTAWARP
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
160
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:HIT ALIGN, MWD, CLOAK VERY CLOSE TOGETHER
*twitch*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edPO32jgcfc |
Kaeda Maxwell
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
170
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sorry for the x-post but;
Ok just to clarify;
'suspect' is a new thing introduced under the new crimewatch it's not the same as being below -5.0.
From what I understood (at fanfest) 'suspect' is a flag that occurs when you do something that would currently give somebody else aggression on you (like you loot their can).
Under the new crimewatch as explained at fanfest you will be one of three states at all times;
* neutral (done nothing) * suspect (theft, neutral repping) * criminal (anything that currently incurs GCC)
Which is not related to security status. So you might want to hold off on the wild speculation till you read up on the new crimewatch system. |
|
CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
1469
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:58:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. |
|
|
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
110
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:01:00 -
[81] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:It's absurdly easy and safe to travel through lo-sec these days. I moved a god damb Noctis through Rancer this wee for christ's sake.
Ok, sorry if I gave you the impression that I know abso-fing-lutely nothing about this game...
My point beeing: A few years back, I didn*t have to take extra precautions if I had to make a quick trip to 0.4 to shortcut for a mission, or to pickup some merchandise. Not that there where no gate camps back then, mind you, they just didn't pop any T1 frig our hauler back then, just for the heck of it... same with suicide gankers... what shee-niou practice is that? "I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way."
Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778 |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
185
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:02:00 -
[82] - Quote
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:Sorry for the x-post but;Ok just to clarify; 'suspect' is a new thing introduced under the new crimewatch it's not the same as being below -5.0. From what I understood (at fanfest) 'suspect' is a flag that occurs when you do something that would currently give somebody else aggression on you (like you loot their can). Under the new crimewatch as explained at fanfest you will be one of three states at all times; * neutral (done nothing) * suspect (theft, neutral repping) * criminal (anything that currently incurs GCC) Which is not related to security status. So you might want to hold off on the wild speculation till you read up on the new crimewatch system.
Loot from a wreck and then die from overpowered gate guns. Welcome to New Eve. Any none fluffeh bunnies in space actions will not be tolerated. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:04:00 -
[83] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Loot from a wreck and then die from overpowered gate guns. Welcome to New Eve. Any none fluffeh unicorns in space actions will not be tolerated.
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
682
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
Irony. When I wanted to increase my smallscale PvP activity, I went with an alt and popped as many cyno/pods as I could to drop to -10 ASAP. When I was low enough security, people would actually start engage me on the gates and I'd get great smallscale fights.
So with Greyscales changes, that door is completely closed. Now it's actually bad to be -10, and all those opportunity fights you'd get will be gone. In fact, you rather would not be -10 so you could travel under guns, while looking for.. well what? People that drop cans in belts? Travel to null? Join FW? Wardec people in low? The only summary I can come forward with when thinking about this, is that it's a major combat nerf, nothing else. It just makes it harder to fight. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
154
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:08:00 -
[85] - Quote
Signed.
Why not just have concord slowly upgrade or downgrade the police / deffensive structures over time depending on number of kills on that gate each day or week
Gates that were permacamped would be eventually re-inforced and the camps would be forced to roam. Hmm, i actually think thats an idea that could work The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
110
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:10:00 -
[86] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Why not just have concord slowly upgrade or downgrade the police / deffensive structures over time depending on number of kills on that gate each day or week
Uh, now that's a shiny idea there... problem is, EVE is not that flexible. "I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way."
Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778 |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
154
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:17:00 -
[87] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:I would like to start a petition that cancels out this petition. A game change that's actually an improvement to lowsec is a good thing and these morons want to keep the currently broken status quo?
Nay I say. Give a like and quote this post to show that common sense triumphs over stupid lowsec morons who are just in it for easy kills (I'm also a like *****).
Isn't you blog all about cheap hisec corp kills Cyprus? I actually liked your blog a lot, especially about the mining corps who's orca's you killed right after you joined them
But really now, you've not got a leg to stand on as far as PvP integrity :P The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Orthan
TunDraGon
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:18:00 -
[88] - Quote
SIGNED
I have been playing eve since 2003 with all its changes, some good - some bad ... I also call Low-Sec my 'Home' - I am not interested in any High-Sec or Null-Sec activity.
So ... If this modification to sentry-mechanics comes I will unsubscribe my 5 accounts and selfdestruct my titan, fraps it and put it to u-tube with the proper comment to this sentry-modification.
If CCP wants to modify Eve to get more like WOW - do it - but without me and without my money for it. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
682
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:19:00 -
[89] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:Are tutorials really that hard to write?
CCP want players to teach players, they want corporations to do that job for them, simply put. Unfortunately, there are entire alliances of people who still don't know how to move around in low- or null, even when they live there, so one could argue that CCP at this time should've learned.. but nopes, they keep promote the 'people teach people'-way.
I have to say tho, I think I learned alot in my early years from my corp, but I learned even more from going out and exploring/learning by my mistakes. People now seems so damn afraid of dying tho, not sure what is up with that. *cough* crappy mentality.
Good post tho, rest of your stuff, gave you +1. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
682
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:23:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.
Start by bookmarking this thread, already some excellent feedback. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
|
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1226
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:46:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. I do like the 'escalating' dps idea, but would you consider making it 'escalate' to its current level of damage, thereby allowing small ships to get tackle and remainin on grid long enough for slower locking ships to take over My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
so will this remote repping suspect flagging happen in HS or does this only affect lowsec? |
SenshiMaru
Tri-gun Lost Obsession
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:52:00 -
[93] - Quote
At this rate, null-sec will have GCC, gate guns, and Concord by next June. You're ******* stupid, CCP. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
59
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:57:00 -
[94] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Tara Read wrote:What does this mean? Essentially it is led up to interpretation but anyone "suspect" hence anyone with negative sec status will essentially be fired upon in low sec. GCC no longer becomes applicable and fights on gates now will be reduced to under 5 minutes or until all aggressor's are destroyed. CCP want to force all lowsec inhibitants into FW. Welcome to Blob Online, where smallscale gameplay is hated by the devs.
Blob Online has always been around since the days of BoB and even before Capitals. The sad underlying fact is that there is hardly anything that drives players TO low sec. Unless you're a dirty, greedy old salt who desires the dangers of low sec it's pretty much moot.
Let me ask everyone here. IF these were to be implemented what then? There still would be little desire for players to head to low sec for any permanent basis besides maybe missions or sites. Yet even those are lack luster compared to the profits to be had in Null.
Yet we all know who's hands are always in the cookie jar when it comes to dominance over the resources that drive New Eden and why the market remains terribly inflated. 80 Million isk Drakes? Anyone remember when they were 30 by chance?
Low Sec NEEDS to bring something worth while to players. It needs to be appealing for either minerals, or sites. Something that Null sec doesn't have. This will inspire growth and interest. It will bring forth better combat as well!
Think about it. New corps or operations vying for control over new minerals or something of value all the while dealing with the risk of those willing to haunt said systems.
The problem simply is there IS no reward for the risk. CCP needs to change that. Not because we want juicer targets But because Low Sec now provides an opportunity to break the monopoly on the markets and give others a chance to stake their own claim without dealing with G00NS or Nulli Secunda or TEST etc.
And even then we take no sides with said people. We fight em all. Hell we even provide protection (for a price). Point being is Low Sec could be the breath of fresh air people have been waiting for....
Instead of tinkering with gates to keep people out of Low Sec we need to reinvigorate reasons to bring people in.
|
Cameron Cahill
Paranoid.
87
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:59:00 -
[95] - Quote
The escalating damage thing is a good idea. The amount of damage is whats stupid. with the increasing damage and the amount you are proposing it do, the guns will start alphaing battleships in about two minutes not including previous damage/player agression. This is thoroughly stupid. And don't be stupid and try and do sig related damage on that kind of level. An mwding bs (as all are) has roughly the same sig as a carrier.
There is nothing wrong with the current damage levels, just make it so the guns have tracking issues with frigates if you really want to bring them in to gate combat. |
Medarr
ZeroSec
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:01:00 -
[96] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.
Uhhh so what you want is for us pirates to not only be shot in highsec by navy and other players but also by sentry guns in lowsec.. our NATURAL habitat?... Did you get ganked by pirates or something?
Seriously.. worst idea since WiS... wanna have riots on your hands again... do this... |
Aranial
Empyrean Warriors The Obsidian Front
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:02:00 -
[97] - Quote
/signed
I like my bit of low-sec pew pew, be it on a gate or at an asteriod field. This will just kill all small roaming gangs and solo pvp on gates. I thought CCP wanted more PvP not less? Wouldn't this change be rather counter productive?
Here's hoping it doesn't come to pass. |
Sexy Cakes
Poasting
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:02:00 -
[98] - Quote
Please keep discussions about the CSM 7 Summer meeting minutes in the appropriate place. Having feedback in one place is much more productive and will allow for better discussions than having the feedback scattered all over our forums.
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:07:00 -
[99] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.
Before finalizing anything (and I'm sure I speak for everyone here) we'd like more details on this "escalation" feature that's to replace the current system. Will this system penalize you for being a negative sec status without aggression? Will it time out once you warp away like GCC or remain there under certain conditions?
See there is just no details provided which creates confusion and sadly negativity off the bat even if the concept may in the end be good.
As far as this scaling damage up to 5 minutes it just won't work. You will end up killing off any sort of decent fights to be had in Low Sec if you do this. NO one ever puts a capital on a gate. And if they do it's because their stupid and will end up dying anyways.
Again if you want to invigorate and drive people into Low Sec make it unique. Give it something Null or High Sec doesn't have. Make the reward worth the risk. Give players opportunity. Shutting out the people that make it interesting will only escalate the problem instead of enhancing the experience.
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:09:00 -
[100] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Please keep discussions about the CSM 7 Summer meeting minutes in the appropriate place. Having feedback in one place is much more productive and will allow for better discussions than having the feedback scattered all over our forums.
CCP Greyscale replied here. I'm certain the discussion is perfectly fine where it is now.... |
|
SenshiMaru
Tri-gun Lost Obsession
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:09:00 -
[101] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:NO one ever puts a capital on a gate. And if they do it's because their stupid and will end up dying anyways.
As a Triage pilot, I disagree. Triage goes where the fleet needs it.
But I agreed with everything else in your post.
Yes, gate guns are a necessary evil in low-sec, and in my opinion their DPS was pretty laughable in anything larger than a battlecruiser. The scaling damage is an interesting idea to solve, but the damage does not need to scale to the extreme that CCP have stated in the CSM meeting. |
Ahura Dracul
Isk Sinkers
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:11:00 -
[102] - Quote
In eve people need stations and gates and for a majority of time nothing else from a solar system and at the sametime people hate gatecamp and station games mechanics. Real fix isn't changing those mechanics but to introduce a reason for players to go anywhere else in a system and thus bringing the pvp out of gates and stations. If you wanna see other players you have maybe 10000 times better chance finding them at station/gate than at a belt for example. but thenagain we could rename eve online to gatecamp online... maybe it's such a key component in eve gameplay we really can't change it without too many tears. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:12:00 -
[103] - Quote
SenshiMaru wrote:Tara Read wrote:NO one ever puts a capital on a gate. And if they do it's because their stupid and will end up dying anyways.
As a Triage pilot, I disagree. Triage goes where the fleet needs it. I agreed with everything you said up until that statement.
I'm talking about a lone person. As in one single capital trying to camp on it's own. Not with a support fleet behind it. Sorry should have clarified. That and it is 5 am.. x//x
|
Sexy Cakes
Poasting
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:13:00 -
[104] - Quote
The best part would be to see a carrier thats like 1000 times the size of a gate gun get wrecked in 4.5 mins.
Well thought addition to eve online Greyscale lolol |
Kage Toshimado
TunDraGon
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:18:00 -
[105] - Quote
/signed
But then again, I unsubbed all of my accounts when unified inventory came out. I'm just counting down the remaining days. If this actually takes place... I feel for all of the low sec pirates. |
Medarr
ZeroSec
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:22:00 -
[106] - Quote
Lowsec is now officially Dead...
Its game over man..
GAME OVER..
WHAT ARE WE GONNE DO MAN...
ITS GAME OVER!... |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
62
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:23:00 -
[107] - Quote
Medarr wrote:Lowsec is now officially Dead...
Its game over man..
GAME OVER..
WHAT ARE WE GONNE DO MAN...
ITS GAME OVER!...
Play Guild Wars 2? |
Medarr
ZeroSec
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:24:00 -
[108] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Medarr wrote:Lowsec is now officially Dead...
Its game over man..
GAME OVER..
WHAT ARE WE GONNE DO MAN...
ITS GAME OVER!... Play Guild Wars 2?
Damn stop breaking the internet with your valid and sensable responses!!!! |
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:25:00 -
[109] - Quote
I always tought that damage should scale, but the proposal is too simplistic. I think damage should start low, grow a bit but not up to the point where it can kill a carrier in 4 minutes. Maybe the guns should start applying ewar after a few minutes, dampening the ships etc after 4 minutes (making impossible to tackle anything not stupidly slow).
On my eyes the gate camping downfall was when warp to zero was implemented. the gate camps changed side of gate, because a fast lock game and very boring, Also they now were needed to be there all time, not out of grid then warp in etc...
CCP must think and find other oportunities and locatiosn for piracy. |
Alexzandvar Douglass
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:25:00 -
[110] - Quote
Why do I feel that the whining about Low sec and high sec PvP has become a broken record, with the same things being whined about for years.
Seriously, 1 thread is enough. |
|
John Kony
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:27:00 -
[111] - Quote
My name is John Kony and I approve of these pirate tears. |
Megnamon
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:27:00 -
[112] - Quote
/Signed by a concerned citizen |
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:27:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ahura Dracul wrote:In eve people need stations and gates and for a majority of time nothing else from a solar system and at the sametime people hate gatecamp and station games mechanics. Real fix isn't changing those mechanics but to introduce a reason for players to go anywhere else in a system and thus bringing the pvp out of gates and stations. If you wanna see other players you have maybe 10000 times better chance finding them at station/gate than at a belt for example. but thenagain we could rename eve online to gatecamp online... maybe it's such a key component in eve gameplay we really can't change it without too many tears.
That is why I always defended that the HIGH end belt ratting should be in low sec not 0.0. 0.0 shoudl have the best scanneble sites, adn low sec shoudl have Battleships paying up to 2 mil on belts.
That would solve SEVERAL issues with low sec. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:27:00 -
[114] - Quote
Medarr wrote:Tara Read wrote:Medarr wrote:Lowsec is now officially Dead...
Its game over man..
GAME OVER..
WHAT ARE WE GONNE DO MAN...
ITS GAME OVER!... Play Guild Wars 2? Damn stop breaking the internet with your valid and sensable responses!!!!
It's not my fault I swear! But damn does wielding a Greatsword as a Warrior look bad ass. Sorry. I've played both GW 1 and Eve since middle school and their the only two games I keep coming back to.
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:28:00 -
[115] - Quote
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:Why do I feel that the whining about Low sec and high sec PvP has become a broken record, with the same things being whined about for years.
Seriously, 1 thread is enough.
It isn't whining when you are having a thoughtful discussion that could actually benefit players. Try again. |
John Kony
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:29:00 -
[116] - Quote
all i hear reading that is 'WAAAAAAA WAAAAAAA! MUMMY DADDY'S BEING MEAN!' |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:30:00 -
[117] - Quote
Megnamon wrote:/Signed by a concerned citizen O...oh S@%T. It just got real people
|
Medarr
ZeroSec
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:30:00 -
[118] - Quote
Seriously tho..
fix negative rep first.. Give us pirates a way to regain our sec standing without having to grind 100s of rats in low/0.0 otherwise your screwing over a large part of the pvp population... |
John Kony
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:32:00 -
[119] - Quote
Medarr wrote:Seriously tho..
fix negative rep first.. Give us pirates a way to regain our sec standing without having to grind 100s of rats in low/0.0 otherwise your screwing over a large part of the pvp population...
Stop getting low sec status then? go do real pvp in null instead of ganking defenseless industrials.
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:32:00 -
[120] - Quote
Medarr wrote:Seriously tho..
fix negative rep first.. Give us pirates a way to regain our sec standing without having to grind 100s of rats in low/0.0 otherwise your screwing over a large part of the pvp population...
Why would you want to gain sec status? *psst* Make an alt account for all your carebear needs! |
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
66
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:34:00 -
[121] - Quote
John Kony wrote:Medarr wrote:Seriously tho..
fix negative rep first.. Give us pirates a way to regain our sec standing without having to grind 100s of rats in low/0.0 otherwise your screwing over a large part of the pvp population... Stop getting low sec status then? go do real pvp in null instead of ganking defenseless industrials.
AHAHAHAHAHAHA..... Oh wait Let me catch my breath and change my drawers... Oh lord get a load of this guy! Quick! Someone get this man a bubble and a Titan he can bridge on! |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:34:00 -
[122] - Quote
The problem I have with these issues is not that it doesnt solve the gatecamp issue, we dont gatecamp much if at all, but that it basiclly makes fights like this, this, this and this utterly unable to take place.
For those that cant be bothered to click links the vast majority of our fleet fights take place on or near gates and stations, buffing sentries in the way greyscale intends will get rid of most of our chances of having any kind of a fight that isnt a 'get in, shoot, get out' gank. |
Medarr
ZeroSec
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:35:00 -
[123] - Quote
John Kony wrote:Medarr wrote:Seriously tho..
fix negative rep first.. Give us pirates a way to regain our sec standing without having to grind 100s of rats in low/0.0 otherwise your screwing over a large part of the pvp population... Stop getting low sec status then? go do real pvp in null instead of ganking defenseless industrials.
You didnt look at my killboard did you... GTFO most of my kills were in 0.0
Tara Read wrote:Medarr wrote:Seriously tho..
fix negative rep first.. Give us pirates a way to regain our sec standing without having to grind 100s of rats in low/0.0 otherwise your screwing over a large part of the pvp population... Why would you want to gain sec status? *psst* Make an alt account for all your carebear needs!
I have one.. Still doesnt make this sentry gun debacle a good idea... |
John Kony
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:36:00 -
[124] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: AHAHAHAHAHAHA..... Oh wait Let me catch my breath and change my drawers... Oh lord get a load of this guy! Quick! Someone get this man a bubble and a Titan he can bridge on!
I read this as 'I don't have the skills for nullsec, nor a true understanding of how null pvp works'.
A piratey carebear? Who'da thunk it.
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
66
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:36:00 -
[125] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:The problem I have with these issues is not that it doesnt solve the gatecamp issue, we dont gatecamp much if at all, but that it basiclly makes fights like this, this, this and this utterly unable to take place. For those that cant be bothered to click links the vast majority of our fleet fights take place on or near gates and stations, buffing sentries in the way greyscale intends will get rid of most of our chances of having any kind of a fight that isnt a 'get in, shoot, get out' gank.
Exactly and oh MAN.... Those videos... Sexy. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
66
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:37:00 -
[126] - Quote
Medarr wrote:John Kony wrote:Medarr wrote:Seriously tho..
fix negative rep first.. Give us pirates a way to regain our sec standing without having to grind 100s of rats in low/0.0 otherwise your screwing over a large part of the pvp population... Stop getting low sec status then? go do real pvp in null instead of ganking defenseless industrials. You didnt look at my killboard did you... GTFO most of my kills were in 0.0Tara Read wrote:Medarr wrote:Seriously tho..
fix negative rep first.. Give us pirates a way to regain our sec standing without having to grind 100s of rats in low/0.0 otherwise your screwing over a large part of the pvp population... Why would you want to gain sec status? *psst* Make an alt account for all your carebear needs! I have one.. Still doesnt make this sentry gun debacle a good idea...
Oh well of course not! I was just saiyan.
|
John Kony
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:39:00 -
[127] - Quote
Medarr wrote:
You didnt look at my killboard did you... GTFO most of my kills were in 0.0
Can't say I regarded you as important enough to look at your killboard, your tears are amusing me though. I haven't looked as I can't be bothered. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:45:00 -
[128] - Quote
John Kony wrote:Tara Read wrote: AHAHAHAHAHAHA..... Oh wait Let me catch my breath and change my drawers... Oh lord get a load of this guy! Quick! Someone get this man a bubble and a Titan he can bridge on!
I read this as 'I don't have the skills for nullsec, nor a true understanding of how null pvp works'. A piratey carebear? Who'da thunk it.
One could take the following as a crude rule?
The skill you need as a pirate rises with the sec status of the system you are hunting in. null-sec....no skill low sec....low skill high sec...high skill |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
67
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:46:00 -
[129] - Quote
John Kony wrote:Tara Read wrote: AHAHAHAHAHAHA..... Oh wait Let me catch my breath and change my drawers... Oh lord get a load of this guy! Quick! Someone get this man a bubble and a Titan he can bridge on!
I read this as 'I don't have the skills for nullsec, nor a true understanding of how null pvp works'. A piratey carebear? Who'da thunk it.
So let me get this straight (since you really are a terrible troll and I'm quite bored before bed) "skill" in Null sec requires what exactly?
Let's see.
1. A cookie cutter fitting vomited out via alliance mail for a certain setup that even the most mundane player could grasp.
2. Bookmarks leading to a Titan for transport. How do we do DAT!? One may ask. Just right click and JUMP!
3. Said "skillful" pilot put's his mettle to the test (and his internet connection) as lag ensues creating an exciting experience only to be witnessed in glorious combat with 300 of his closest comrades at his back. How's that for individual performance eh?
4. Said pilot is now breathing hard as his finger twitches over his keyboard waiting for the FC to give that one glorious command. That one order to then unleash his fury and might against opponents that have not seen such finesse!
5. His bruised and beaten F1 key is suddenly pressed as his full potential is unleashed in a torrent of hellish destruction only seen in Null Sec!
6. As the dust clears and all said lemmings (cough) i mean pilots converge upon one another grinning with smeared Frito's on their fingers they reap the spoils and return glorious for no other pilots could match the SKILL and FURY of Null sec. |
SenshiMaru
Tri-gun Lost Obsession
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:48:00 -
[130] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote: One could take the following as a crude rule?
The skill you need as a pirate rises with the sec status of the system you are hunting in. null-sec....no skill low sec....low skill high sec...high skill
Piracy is dependent on the target's stupidity. In most cases, skill is irrelevant. |
|
Cyprus Black
Perkone Caldari State
294
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:49:00 -
[131] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. OMG, please do not cave in to this very small and highly vocal minority. Hijinks of a highsec pirate http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
67
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:51:00 -
[132] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. OMG, please do not cave in to this very small and highly vocal minority.
Funny. I'm actually Gay too. Who woulda thunk it?
Be careful. I'm after yer booty. |
|
CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
1473
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:52:00 -
[133] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.
Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design. |
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
67
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:53:00 -
[134] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design.
Thank you for the clarification on that. |
Medarr
ZeroSec
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:53:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design.
BAD idea is Terribad... just saying... |
SenshiMaru
Tri-gun Lost Obsession
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:54:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design.
Most readers understand that, its the very vocal Tinfoil group that try to panic the masses and get everyone riled up over it. It's an interesting idea...to a point, but we'll see how much feedback will flow against it. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
67
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:55:00 -
[137] - Quote
SenshiMaru wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design. Most readers understand that, its the very vocal Tinfoil group that try to panic the masses and get everyone riled up over it.
But dude seriously. Aliens... |
Medarr
ZeroSec
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:57:00 -
[138] - Quote
SenshiMaru wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design. Most readers understand that, its the very vocal Tinfoil group that try to panic the masses and get everyone riled up over it. It's an interesting idea...to a point, but we'll see how much feedback will flow against it.
Yeah kinda like the WiS and Greed is good thing... or the Univentory... Amirite... |
SenshiMaru
Tri-gun Lost Obsession
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:00:00 -
[139] - Quote
Medarr wrote:SenshiMaru wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design. Most readers understand that, its the very vocal Tinfoil group that try to panic the masses and get everyone riled up over it. It's an interesting idea...to a point, but we'll see how much feedback will flow against it. Yeah kinda like the WiS and Greed is good thing... or the Univentory... Amirite...
Exactly! Never happened. But don't tell any of the bittervets, they're really committed to the lie. |
Ms Kat
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:02:00 -
[140] - Quote
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
Now guys, when people (yes me included) said dust 514 would be the END for eve online we were trolled forwards and backwards.
Look DUST and eve communicate through PI essentialy.... there are only so many plannets in high sec so of course they want/need to open up lowsec as well for more people, hense these changes..... Man the F up or move on |
|
Medarr
ZeroSec
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:02:00 -
[141] - Quote
SenshiMaru wrote:Medarr wrote:SenshiMaru wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design. Most readers understand that, its the very vocal Tinfoil group that try to panic the masses and get everyone riled up over it. It's an interesting idea...to a point, but we'll see how much feedback will flow against it. Yeah kinda like the WiS and Greed is good thing... or the Univentory... Amirite... Exactly! Never happened. But don't tell any of the bittervets, they're really committed to the lie.
Sense... you make non.... |
SenshiMaru
Tri-gun Lost Obsession
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:07:00 -
[142] - Quote
Medarr wrote:Sense... you make non....
A lot gets by you, doesn't it champ?
Next thread. |
Danny Diamonds
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:12:00 -
[143] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Signed. Why not just have concord slowly upgrade or downgrade the police / deffensive structures over time depending on number of kills on that gate each day or week Gates that were permacamped would be eventually re-inforced and the camps would be forced to roam. Hmm, i actually think thats an idea that could work
I like this line of thinking. Even good ideas are found in the sea of tears. |
Danny Diamonds
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:13:00 -
[144] - Quote
Medarr wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Uhhh so what you want is for us pirates to not only be shot in highsec by navy and other players but also by sentry guns in lowsec.. our NATURAL habitat?... Did you get ganked by pirates or something? Seriously.. worst idea since WiS... wanna have riots on your hands again... do this...
Seriously? You are threatening to have a server-wide temper tantrum? Grow up. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
190
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:15:00 -
[145] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design.
Well I hope these threads have helped you realise what a bloody terrible idea it was. Coming up with these random ideas is fine, so long as people are capable of recognising and discarding the truly terrible ones |
|
ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
62
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:23:00 -
[146] - Quote
Thread cleaned of troll posting. Please post responsibly, thank you ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Hiyora Akachi
Bling Ring Tax Evaders
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 14:41:00 -
[147] - Quote
Oh the Pirate tears! So delicious!
The fun part is. These are the guys who were laughing at the gankers yesterday about the Barge changes. Now they're bitchin' about Sentry Gun changes!
Hahahahahahahahaha I LOVE THIS GAME! CCP! Keep ******* with people! Its so delicious! |
whaynethepain
52
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 14:53:00 -
[148] - Quote
So even frigates can have a quick fight at gates now.
Neat, nice one, it's always bothered me that.
The no more ganking thing, dunno, I just shoot anyone I feel like anyhow, loose my ship and do some ratting as punishment.
I can see a few cries of woe, but I honestly think CCP is onto a winner with this one.
I like to fly about, I like to shoot everything I can, ships, customs, rats, wrecks, whatever, not bothered. Now I will be able to shoot at stuff with sentry guns on grid without being insta-poped, but will be chased out of sentry range I suppose.
I've never sat at low-sec gates and stations ganking non-combatants, but it looks to be viable with a warp-to interceptor pilot and safespot. Could be fun times.
Getting you on your feet.
So you've further to fall. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
192
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 15:00:00 -
[149] - Quote
whaynethepain wrote:So even frigates can have a quick fight at gates now.
Neat, nice one, it's always bothered me that.
The no more ganking thing, dunno, I just shoot anyone I feel like anyhow, loose my ship and do some ratting as punishment.
I can see a few cries of woe, but I honestly think CCP is onto a winner with this one.
I like to fly about, I like to shoot everything I can, ships, customs, rats, wrecks, whatever, not bothered. Now I will be able to shoot at stuff with sentry guns on grid without being insta-poped, but will be chased out of sentry range I suppose.
I've rarely sat at low-sec gates and stations ganking non-combatants, but it looks to be viable with a warp-to interceptor pilot and safespot. Could be fun times.
Sigh. Again, the only thing this mechanic would prevent is real engagements. It would do nothing to stop sudden ganks against stupid industrial ships who jump into low. In fact that will be the only thing left (and arguably buffed a little, with the interceptors being able to quickly tackle things at gates) |
Kyang Tia
Matari Exodus
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 15:04:00 -
[150] - Quote
Signed. Prolonged engagements on lowsec gates should still be possible. Right now players with negative sec status have everything working against them while not getting any advantages at all. This needs to be reduced, not increased, so as to make piracy a viable profession. (You won't believe this, but a lot of pirates have highsec alts to make ISK.) The only way to really bring lowsec to life again is to introduce lowsec-only content, most importantly resources. |
|
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
194
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 15:11:00 -
[151] - Quote
Kyang Tia wrote:Signed. Prolonged engagements on lowsec gates should still be possible. Right now players with negative sec status have everything working against them while not getting any advantages at all. This needs to be reduced, not increased, so as to make piracy a viable profession. (You won't believe this, but a lot of pirates have highsec alts to make ISK.) The only way to really bring lowsec to life again is to introduce lowsec-only content, most importantly resources.
Move all ice to lowsec job done m i rite guys |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
195
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 15:11:00 -
[152] - Quote
I very much so doubt i will unsub but
/signed To all everyone concerned over the fairness involving the H/O disqualification https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113351&find=unread |
ElextriX
Latrunculi
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 15:17:00 -
[153] - Quote
This proposed change is an awful idea. It will literally ruin low sec, the beauty of it in the past has been a different style of pvp (not necessarily piracy, some people might be shocked / ignorant that there is a difference) and the only reasoning behind thse changes is clearly to please the highest subs category (the carebears) and I guess thinking that low sec'ers will simply move into null sec, which also on a large scale, won't happen. But as usual I doubt CCP will care about the opinions of the more niche styles of game play.
Instead of coming up with literally terrible idea's how about fixing obvious issues like Orca's being used on high sec gates for 0% risk camps. Or fixing ecm drones so solo / small gang stuff is more viable. |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
386
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 15:47:00 -
[154] - Quote
Is lo-sec actually an abbreviation of Lonely-Sec?
Fact is , that just about everyone recognizes that lo-sec has some serious problems.
So, any attempt to fix it has to be better than doing nothing. You want fries with that? |
Gogela
Direct Action LLC.
912
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 15:52:00 -
[155] - Quote
As a lowsec pirate, I'd like to say that I think the guy above is pretty much right. Anything they change is lowsec is better than nothing because right now lowsec is a wasteland of a few pirates, big alliances staging for this or that, and that's about all. lowsec is so screwed up right now that you couldn't do anything to make is more sparsely populated. Some kind of larger view and strategy plan would be nice, but if small changes are all CCP is capable of than I say anything beats nothing.
|
Tyler Rainez
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 16:19:00 -
[156] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Alright I normally don't get involved in the gripe fests that surround game mechanics. Personally I've played Eve off and on since 2004 with a few breaks here and there and seen many changes come to New Eden. Some for the better some for worse, but overall I must hand it to CCP they've kept me coming back for more with new opportunities and changes.
Eve to me has always basically been be whatever you want. Want to fight for a faction? Done. Want to make billions or risk losing it all in a Wormhole? Done. Research? Done. Be part of some conglomerate of null sec knuckleheads (grin) Done.
Myself Piracy has always been a dark lust. Preying upon those fool enough to step into the depths of unlawful space has been one of the main reasons why I love this game. Low sec to me has always been home. It's also where I have made some very good friends and seen some of the brightest players in Eve come and go over the years.
Yet today the announcement by CCP Greyscale stating Sentry Gun changes has me more than worried. This move could potentially destroy what is left of any activity in Low Sec. We all know the saying: Low Sec is dead. Why do you ask? Much of the traffic that was coming into low sec was due profit that was still viable a few years back.
Now with the major null sec alliances keeping a vice grip on any and everything it has shown that low sec is nothing but old news except sadly for systems you pass through on your way to null or back into high sec. For those of us still around it's still home.
Here is what was quoted by CCP Greyscale in the minutes released yesterday:
CSM minutes wrote: CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.
What does this mean? Essentially it is led up to interpretation but anyone "suspect" hence anyone with negative sec status will essentially be fired upon in low sec. GCC no longer becomes applicable and fights on gates now will be reduced to under 5 minutes or until all aggressor's are destroyed.
This also means that while traveling through Low Sec even without GCC someone would potentially be fired upon. This also means that Sentries will simply be untankable even with different persons sharing the aggression during a fight.
It effectively stops any combat after 5 minutes for the aggressor and further kills any sort of decent fight that may be had off a gate except for a quick gank and run which really isn't a decent fight anyways,
I personally feel this is a tremendous mistake not only due to Sentry mechanics, but how such mechanics will force players OUT of Low Sec permanently to either high sec or for many of us the unappealing systems in Null.
I understand some here may only see this in terms of Gatecamps. However it not only effects camps but the very combat mechanics that will now have to be dealt with in Low Sec putting anyone with low security status at a dismal disadvantage during a fight which would eventually end in a loss after 4 to 5 minutes regardless.
With such mechanics in place it has already been discussed by myself and others in my alliance that if such changes were indeed implemented we'd have no desire to move out to Null to conform and would most likely unsubscribe.
Many of us who live in Low Sec have played this game for far too long to see the last bit of what makes this game fun to us essentially twisted and contorted into a region that will now truly be "dead".
I beseech CCP Greyscale and others to rethink these mechanics not only for the players who call Low Sec home, but also in regards to the future limited combat in Low Sec which would thus make it truly unfavorable and unwanted.
If these changes do go into effect I for one will be unsubscribing all three of my accounts and simply moving on. It's not worth my time and money to be forced into regions of Eve I feel are hardly fun or appealing.
Please sign below if you agree.
/signed
|
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1591
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 16:29:00 -
[157] - Quote
I'm not a professional full time pirate by trade..... but I too enjoy blowing up smaller ships on gates/stations/belts/moons/planets/POCOs when the mood strikes me.
That having been said, I will not unsub if these changes are pushed, but these changes will be my barrier to pew pew.
/signed. |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:11:00 -
[158] - Quote
If two parties are out looking for a fight, why does it have to be on a gate? If you both REALLY want the fight, it'l happen, if not, well then, it wouldn't have happened anyway, since people you know, scout and generally gather intel before a proper fight anyway...
There won't be people permacamping anymore, no more smartbombing lameness. This WILL get more people into lowsec. those claiming it'l just lead to more people being caught by ceptors etc aren't taking into account that those ceptor accounts will only have 2-3 tackles in them before they're considered "suspect" and will no longer be able to camp unless they fix their sec.
Basically it flips from "if you're a pirate, sit on a gate all day" to "if you're a pirate, don't get caught on a gate".
It's a big, drastic change, and will no doubt impact many peoples playstyles, but there is no telling what it will actually change. Give it a chance and see what new opportunities it brings, as a playerbase i'm pretty sure we'l come up with SOME way to have fun and shoot people. |
whaynethepain
52
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:26:00 -
[159] - Quote
Yea, basically, eve is opening up a little.
Personally I would like a large warp mod, to warp 1 au forwards, but that's another thread. Getting you on your feet.
So you've further to fall. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
362
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:27:00 -
[160] - Quote
Soi Mala wrote:If two parties are out looking for a fight, why does it have to be on a gate? If you both REALLY want the fight, it'l happen, if not, well then, it wouldn't have happened anyway, since people you know, scout and generally gather intel before a proper fight anyway...
There won't be people permacamping anymore, no more smartbombing lameness. This WILL get more people into lowsec. those claiming it'l just lead to more people being caught by ceptors etc aren't taking into account that those ceptor accounts will only have 2-3 tackles in them before they're considered "suspect" and will no longer be able to camp unless they fix their sec.
Basically it flips from "if you're a pirate, sit on a gate all day" to "if you're a pirate, don't get caught on a gate".
It's a big, drastic change, and will no doubt impact many peoples playstyles, but there is no telling what it will actually change. Give it a chance and see what new opportunities it brings, as a playerbase i'm pretty sure we'l come up with SOME way to have fun and shoot people.
Thats not how fights work. They aren't fun because they are arranged beforehand. they are fun because you have only a vauge idea of what you are going to find when you jump through that gate. Having two fleets crash into eachother on a gate, only to have them work out in local terms for a fight (what planet? what ranges?) isn't fun. |
|
Takazono Kogachi
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:29:00 -
[161] - Quote
/signed |
Vel'drinn
Tactical Warfare Assault Team Sublime Intrepid Crossing
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 19:02:00 -
[162] - Quote
Just what low sec needs, adding complexity and penalties for fighting.
Remove sec status hits and let low sec run red with blood. It needs more explosions.
I chose null over low for this reason. Low pvp sucks unless you're willing to go pirate. Now it will just suck for everybody. |
XxRTEKxX
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 19:10:00 -
[163] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.
Any possibiliy of making the sentry guns destructible by players? Have them respawn after DT. Not easily destroyed but make it more of a challenge to camp a gate with a reward for successfully destroying all sentries at a gate. I don't mean destroyed by one or two ships but more of a large scale type effort to claim that gate to be able to camp it. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
86
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 19:12:00 -
[164] - Quote
To everyone who threatens to leave, we dun want you here. HKO is -----------------------------------> (and its pretty fun) |
Ms Kat
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 19:16:00 -
[165] - Quote
I for one am for the changes, anything to open up the game to more people is GOOD |
Tragedy
The Creepshow
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 19:26:00 -
[166] - Quote
Plus 100. This is a kick in the balls that low sec doesn't need. Fu** the vocal minority. If anything remove gate guns completely they're just an annoyance. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
148
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 20:08:00 -
[167] - Quote
What I still don't get is what is the point/ intention? Is it to lock criminals (-10) out of hi-sec? is it to encourge low-sec pvp, or discourage? Trying to fix low-sec? If your trying to fix low-sec, low-sec is dead because there is no reason to be there. Simples. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Holy8th
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 20:38:00 -
[168] - Quote
/signed.
This is by far one of the most terrible ideas to hit lowsec. This removes any chance of a good small gang vs small gang on a lowsec gate and only turns them into ganking devices. Seriously, the level of stupid in this idea is mind boggling. |
Malatha
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 20:51:00 -
[169] - Quote
/signed
If changes similar to this are implemented, I will be dropping all three of my accounts. If anything low sec should be MORE deadly.
Greyscale, you are an idiot. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
75
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 20:52:00 -
[170] - Quote
Gogela wrote:As a lowsec pirate, I'd like to say that I think the guy above is pretty much right. Anything they change is lowsec is better than nothing because right now lowsec is a wasteland of a few pirates, big alliances staging for this or that, and that's about all. lowsec is so screwed up right now that you couldn't do anything to make is more sparsely populated. Some kind of larger view and strategy plan would be nice, but if small changes are all CCP is capable of than I say anything beats nothing.
I disagree completely. Vying for ANY change instead of positive change is detrimental. The underlying issue is there is NO content to drive people to go to low sec compared to Null. Aside from pure small gang combat, give me reasons for mission runners, industrialists, miners, explorers, etc to come to low sec.
I'l give you a hint there is none. Aside from blitzing level 5's there is only a trickle of traffic that comes through low sec on a daily basis. So these people who cry that gates are camped 24/7 are simply talking out of their ass.
This would (in my eyes and in the eyes of many people here) be THE last nail in the coffin for Low Sec period. You limit the type of combat to be had? You take away the one shining example as to what used to make Low Sec glorious in the past then you effectively kill it off.
The fights is what keep me and others still around. We don't want to be in a lag fest of three to four hundred pilots in a giant bubble sitting and shooting in some of the most mundane and boring combat to be had.
Small gang fights are vibrant. There is such a dynamic to be had with how fights can evolve which is what makes it fun. YOUR role in the fight is that much more important. Knowing how to adapt and change tactics on the fly is one of the staples of what Low Sec pvp has always been.
It creates better fights and some of the best pilots to ever roam New Eden period. It's not about gate camps and personally I find them boring. Yet sadly let me ask you what else?
If there is no traffic or no population in Low Sec what's the point? CCP again needs to look at the underlying issue to Low Sec which has always been zero unique content outside of combat. |
|
Augustine Kuvora
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 20:58:00 -
[171] - Quote
/signed |
Zed Jackelope
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 21:34:00 -
[172] - Quote
Awesome moderator Zymurgist gets fired..... Greyscale is still employed.
CCP hates Brutors
Here's a lowsec sentry gun change... stop shooting drones, its ******** that your sentry guns can completely negate the gallente/amarr drone boats. Or better yet, stop shooting combat drones... shoot everything else, especially ECM and fighters. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
605
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 21:42:00 -
[173] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: 1. A cookie cutter fitting vomited out via alliance mail for a certain setup that even the most mundane player could grasp.
2. Bookmarks leading to a Titan for transport. How do we do DAT!? One may ask. Just right click and JUMP!
3. Said "skillful" pilot put's his mettle to the test (and his internet connection) as lag ensues creating an exciting experience only to be witnessed in glorious combat with 300 of his closest comrades at his back. How's that for individual performance eh?
4. Said pilot is now breathing hard as his finger twitches over his keyboard waiting for the FC to give that one glorious command. That one order to then unleash his fury and might against opponents that have not seen such finesse!
5. His bruised and beaten F1 key is suddenly pressed as his full potential is unleashed in a torrent of hellish destruction only seen in Null Sec!
6. As the dust clears and all said lemmings (cough) i mean pilots converge upon one another grinning with smeared Frito's on their fingers they reap the spoils and return glorious for no other pilots could match the SKILL and FURY of Null sec.
1- what's the point you're trying to make here? -personal bad idea of what really is null sec or players living there
2-again you have no clue about null sec
3-you put a smile in my face with this statement, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. And those hundreds/thousands players with solo/small gang kills in null sec (you can find with a little research) are laughing at this statement.
4-why do you keep arguing something you clearly don't have a clue about? -because someone told you or you saw a couple videos, maybe read a couple threads on GD about big wars? -again something you have no clue about)
5-yep because no one in low sec hits F1 at the first thing he can target, of course your F1 needs a middle finger skill very special, a low one
6- because this point is just another 4 and 5 bis
Then you ask something unique only low sec should have, lets see:
Excellent and rich ore/ice belts: they're empty, how did you do that, with skill? or just because it's easier to have an alt in NPC high sec corp doing it at some belt?
Anoms: some of the unique and most expensive B/C type mods, BPC's, industry items are easily found in low sec, but very few adventure over there, why? -what are you doing to make people love your low sec so much that actually you can ransom them?
Industry slots: manufacturing, invention, research slots very often with low to no delay to use, why there aren't more people going there?
You answer: *carebears don't like risk, they're risk averse* so actually you're saying it's their own fault if they don't take those risks for better rewards but what solutions are you proposing? The fact you shouldn't be able to sit your Drake and perma tank gate, sit a gang of battleships and smartbomb everything passing through while being rep by logistics doesn't even gets your attention about the fact you actually take NO RISK
Flash news: Low sec is still empire and there's no logical reason you should be able to sit there and poo over Empire facilities because they're dumb/weak enough to get you out of there. You should not be able to permatank sentry dmg with or without logistics, point blank.
Now the problem is about real roaming gangs and the fact they could no longer have fights at those gates. This is the only real problem that needs to find a decent solution.
brb |
Reiss Jovian
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 21:45:00 -
[174] - Quote
Any actual nerfing of lowsec, no matter the severity of the nerf, well result in me dropping all accounts. C'mon CCP, seriously? You should be doing the opposite. LET'S AVOID THE DEATH OF LOWSEC!!
./Signed |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 21:58:00 -
[175] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Tara Read wrote: 1. A cookie cutter fitting vomited out via alliance mail for a certain setup that even the most mundane player could grasp.
2. Bookmarks leading to a Titan for transport. How do we do DAT!? One may ask. Just right click and JUMP!
3. Said "skillful" pilot put's his mettle to the test (and his internet connection) as lag ensues creating an exciting experience only to be witnessed in glorious combat with 300 of his closest comrades at his back. How's that for individual performance eh?
4. Said pilot is now breathing hard as his finger twitches over his keyboard waiting for the FC to give that one glorious command. That one order to then unleash his fury and might against opponents that have not seen such finesse!
5. His bruised and beaten F1 key is suddenly pressed as his full potential is unleashed in a torrent of hellish destruction only seen in Null Sec!
6. As the dust clears and all said lemmings (cough) i mean pilots converge upon one another grinning with smeared Frito's on their fingers they reap the spoils and return glorious for no other pilots could match the SKILL and FURY of Null sec.
1- what's the point you're trying to make here? -personal bad idea of what really is null sec or players living there 2-again you have no clue about null sec 3-you put a smile in my face with this statement, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. And those hundreds/thousands players with solo/small gang kills in null sec (you can find with a little research) are laughing at this statement. 4-why do you keep arguing something you clearly don't have a clue about? -because someone told you or you saw a couple videos, maybe read a couple threads on GD about big wars? -again something you have no clue about) 5-yep because no one in low sec hits F1 at the first thing he can target, of course your F1 needs a middle finger skill very special, a low one 6- because this point is just another 4 and 5 bis Then you ask something unique only low sec should have, lets see: Excellent and rich ore/ice belts: they're empty, how did you do that, with skill? or just because it's easier to have an alt in NPC high sec corp doing it at some belt? Anoms: some of the unique and most expensive B/C type mods, BPC's, industry items are easily found in low sec, but very few adventure over there, why? -what are you doing to make people love your low sec so much that actually you can ransom them? Industry slots: manufacturing, invention, research slots very often with low to no delay to use, why there aren't more people going there? You answer: *carebears don't like risk, they're risk averse* so actually you're saying it's their own fault if they don't take those risks for better rewards but what solutions are you proposing? The fact you shouldn't be able to sit your Drake and perma tank gate, sit a gang of battleships and smartbomb everything passing through while being rep by logistics doesn't even gets your attention about the fact you actually take NO RISK Flash news: Low sec is still empire and there's no logical reason you should be able to sit there and poo over Empire facilities because they're dumb/weak enough to get you out of there. You should not be able to permatank sentry dmg with or without logistics, point blank. Now the problem is about real roaming gangs and the fact they could no longer have fights at those gates. This is the only real problem that needs to find a decent solution.
1. I'm an ******* and lived in Null. I've witnessed first hand the pants on head mentality that Null sec breeds.
2. Clearly I don't. Please enlighten us about what Null sec is "all" about.
3. Uhuh. Then why is any fight of any mention huge engagements? I'm not saying small gang pvp does not take place I am saying it quickly evolves into a war of attrition more than anything else.
4. Again please. Enlighten us all on the "positives" of Null sec combat. I'm listening. Or is your lack of response due to the lag?
5. I actually click. Well it's rather a hybrid of keybinds on my mouse and individual clicking. And I don't hit F1. But thanks for assuming!
6. You DO realize your response is just making me smile because you are clearly upset about someone taking a dump on your "glorious" null sec pvp's.
First I never stated anything about Ice or ore specifics. I stated Low Sec should have a REASON to drive said persons to the region. THAT is the issue. There's no profit to be had! The risk vs reward factor is clearly unbalanced which is why Low Sec is in the state it is in.
As far as Anoms, Industry, etc again I am waiting for CCP to give players a reason to return to Low Sec....
Now moving on to your bullshit excuse about "risk" and what was that? Drakes? First of all Low Sec is "low security" meaning CONCORD will not hold your hand nor will some big alliance pat your bottom and say it's okay to jump. If half the people who jumped in used their heads it wouldn't result in a loss.
This sounds to me again like some pissy kid who lost their Iteron to a gate. BTW the fact that we take Sentry fire is in fact RISK. Get your facts straight.
So now you want logistics to be mandatory on gates? You DO realize now that the dynamic of fights has now changed. You are now saying that players who wish to engage are already at a dismal disadvantage and MUST tank guns PLUS incoming targets be they hostile or not.
Just. Stop. Now.
P.S. You gave NO valid answers to any solution and instead bitched about how I'm "ignorant" of your godly null sec pvp and still provided ridiculous "solutions" or ideas to sentry mechanics.
|
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:01:00 -
[176] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Finally! Trade can finally come to lowsec. Players can enter in ship sizes larger than frigates. EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped. Corporations now have a legitimate reason to live in lowsec. Miners and explorers now have an acceptable margin of risk. The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance. PI can really take off now. Corporations are more inclined to moon mine lesser materials. There will be a massive influx of players for pirates to shoot at.
Finally! The most neglected aspect of this game is finally starting to receive love. You bitter vets who hate change of any kind, you're welcome to cancel all five million of your accounts. The game will be changing and your inability/unwillingness to adapt is your own fault. Good riddance.
Your an idiot, plan and simple. You don't know how to fly. PERIOD. Trade happens all the time. I fly an impel through lowsec and have never, ever lost it. What? You think the folks I shoot at wouldn't love to pop it? I live off of PI. That fact that ccp is favoring the likes of you is disgusting and repulsive. Learn to scout, learn to bookmark, learn to use the directional scanner. The reason why 90% of you losers die in lowsec is because you don't even try. You don't even give this game the respect wow raiders give warcraft. At least they go and look up how to do something rather than going in blind. Your an embarrassment to all of us and you dont even know it. Once upon a time this game was all about being CHALLENGED. Not having it handed to you. Thus, everything meant more. Hell, there was a time when there were no tutorials at all. You had to figure it out. YOU never would have made it out of the station.
CCP your job is not to protect anyone! SANDBOX hello!! Throw them in the fire and let god sort them. Thats the roots of EVE online. Now all the spoiled little brats are taking over including this CCP clown. Its lowsec, its lawless, THAT is the point. You want security go to null and make it yourself or stay your butt in highsec. You wanna fight, come to my hood.
...and you ..you sniveling little. keep you dirty little, short sighted, numb-skull 'ideas' off my game. Keep messing with it and you will loose money. I got years in this. And if you ban me or anyone eles for giving it to you straight then this game deserves to fail.
....oh and /signed! |
Zarian Uphius
THORN Syndicate THORN Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:05:00 -
[177] - Quote
How is this change at all good for lowsec?
What happens when I undock as a pirate?
Why are you going to limit my targets in lowsec to only be faction warfare targets...since engaging anything that gives you GCC will result in death.
If this change is going to happen can you just add concord to lowsec so I can move my freighter through space faster? Although with how these changes sound a freighter will be safe from most things but the largest of gate camps.
Why do you want to make lowsec HARDER to pvp in? |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
606
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:11:00 -
[178] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:same old bottle of *I don't want risk*
Nothing you argue from the beginning shows low sec will be worst, you keep complaining and talking about null and your glorious null sec experience yadayada, it's ok, so lets move on and try to stick to the real problem you're making: low sec will die !
Why? -because you rage quit with the few actually thinking like you just like the guy above?
Bah, let's admit for a second because of this change at least 15% of high sec population (many already lived in null/low/wh's) finds thins change finally the one that actually gives them the little plus for a try and actually accept the risk to go there for better rewards. It's far more players getting in to low sec than whatever number leaves because they can't tank gates more than a few seconds.
Serious pirates and good low sec players already stated this change will not change their way of low sec living, just change some tactics. The real problem will be something else: the roaming gangs and *gudfights* at gates (notice the difference) and the aggression system making so they can't loot the field and so make profits out of their activity.
What are you proposing? I have one of proposal but not sure you're going to like it, take gate guns away and let bombs+bubbles be used in low sec.
Is your problem solved now?
brb |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:19:00 -
[179] - Quote
Scion Lex wrote:Cyprus Black wrote:Finally! Trade can finally come to lowsec. Players can enter in ship sizes larger than frigates. EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped. Corporations now have a legitimate reason to live in lowsec. Miners and explorers now have an acceptable margin of risk. The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance. PI can really take off now. Corporations are more inclined to moon mine lesser materials. There will be a massive influx of players for pirates to shoot at.
Finally! The most neglected aspect of this game is finally starting to receive love. You bitter vets who hate change of any kind, you're welcome to cancel all five million of your accounts. The game will be changing and your inability/unwillingness to adapt is your own fault. Good riddance. Your an idiot, plan and simple. You don't know how to fly. PERIOD. Trade happens all the time. I fly an impel through lowsec and have never, ever lost it. What? You think the folks I shoot at wouldn't love to pop it? I live off of PI. That fact that ccp is favoring the likes of you is disgusting and repulsive. Learn to scout, learn to bookmark, learn to use the directional scanner. The reason why 90% of you losers die in lowsec is because you don't even try. You don't even give this game the respect wow raiders give warcraft. At least they go and look up how to do something rather than going in blind. Your an embarrassment to all of us and you dont even know it. Once upon a time this game was all about being CHALLENGED. Not having it handed to you. Thus, everything meant more. Hell, there was a time when there were no tutorials at all. You had to figure it out. YOU never would have made it out of the station. CCP your job is not to protect anyone! SANDBOX hello!! Throw them in the fire and let god sort them. Thats the roots of EVE online. Now all the spoiled little brats are taking over including this CCP clown. Its lowsec, its lawless, THAT is the point. You want security go to null and make it yourself or stay your butt in highsec. You wanna fight, come to my hood. ...and you ..you sniveling little. keep you dirty little, short sighted, numb-skull 'ideas' off my game. Keep messing with it and you will loose money. I got years in this. And if you ban me or anyone eles for giving it to you straight then this game deserves to fail. ....oh and /signed!
Well, there's one small piece of the problem right there and then in all it's glorious text form. |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:24:00 -
[180] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Tara Read wrote:same old bottle of *I don't want risk* Nothing you argue from the beginning shows low sec will be worst, you keep complaining and talking about null and your glorious null sec experience yadayada, it's ok, so lets move on and try to stick to the real problem you're making: low sec will die ! Why? -because you rage quit with the few actually thinking like you just like the guy above? Bah, let's admit for a second because of this change at least 15% of high sec population (many already lived in null/low/wh's) finds thins change finally the one that actually gives them the little plus for a try and actually accept the risk to go there for better rewards. It's far more players getting in to low sec than whatever number leaves because they can't tank gates more than a few seconds. Serious pirates and good low sec players already stated this change will not change their way of low sec living, just change some tactics. The real problem will be something else: the roaming gangs and *gudfights* at gates (notice the difference) and the aggression system making so they can't loot the field and so make profits out of their activity. What are you proposing? I have one of proposal but not sure you're going to like it, take gate guns away and let bombs+bubbles be used in low sec. Is your problem solved now?
no professor....scroll up. its not about just looting the fights. Its the fact that all of you are too lazy to figure it out. It is not that hard to survive and succeed in lowsec. People are lazy. This favors that laziness, which shouldn't be a core value of a 'sandbox'. YOU don't want to die....how sad for you. Most of the pirates you are so afraid of started as noobs to pvp and THEY figured it out. And what do we get for our hard work, nerfed into nothing. The reason there aren't a lot of fight off gate is people know better, not mechanics. There is nothing wrong with lowsec as it is. You kids slip through all the time...some of you don't. As it should be.
This change takes away our freedom as players and forces use to pvp in an arena like enviroment. The folks that compare this to a 'wow' like change are right on. leave the guns alone and learn to scout. Use Dotlan, use the ingame map and most of all understand there are risks. If you want to 'Improve' lowsec make the guns track like every other gun and increase the rewards.
As far as flagging....make the timers reflect who your flagged by, what for and give time seperate timers that don't overlay. They also should reset properly which they don't always do.
|
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Zarian Uphius
THORN Syndicate THORN Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:30:00 -
[181] - Quote
Next on the list of changes will be gate guns in nullsec that fire on pirates |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
607
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:41:00 -
[182] - Quote
Zarian Uphius wrote:Next on the list of changes will be gate guns in nullsec that fire on pirates
Those are players but actually no one cares you're -10, +5 or 1000 = Not Blue Shoot It brb |
Salicaz
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
88
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:49:00 -
[183] - Quote
/signed |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
608
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:00:00 -
[184] - Quote
Scion Lex wrote:....oh and /signed!
Reading with sunglasses at night is bad, specially after drinking. Read again. brb |
Petrov Kreigt
TunDraGon
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:05:00 -
[185] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. NO one ever puts a capital on a gate. And if they do it's because their stupid and will end up dying anyways.
How much r*tard did your Mom put in your juice this morning?
Look up RnK or anyone who uses heavy hotdrops/escalates fights.
Moving on... If you want to change low sec, make it rewarding for people to venture in, there's no reason to unless you're farming Faction Warfare LP or need to cyno between places. Don't kill off Small gang PvP.
Also, if you want to combat those who sit on a gate all day in instalocking T3's, remove the ability to dock ships on Orcas whilst they have GCC. Sorted.
/Signed |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:07:00 -
[186] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Scion Lex wrote:....oh and /signed! Reading with sunglasses at night is bad, specially after drinking. Read again.
Is that the best you could come up with? Stop trying to be cute and post on your main, coward.
|
Medea Zarr
MILLITECH
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:11:00 -
[187] - Quote
/signed Low sec should be a nice carefree place to stay.........
regards.... ehmmm and Bazinga btw WE BUY THINGS WE DON'T NEED WITH ISK WE DON'T HAVE TO IMPRESS PEOPLE WE DON'T LIKE-á |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
609
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:11:00 -
[188] - Quote
Scion Lex wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Scion Lex wrote:....oh and /signed! Reading with sunglasses at night is bad, specially after drinking. Read again. Is that the best you could come up with? Stop trying to be cute and post on your main, coward.
Ho I could be as cruel flashy red like you and also insult you, witch is against forum rules of course is we start insulting each other because of pixels stuff.
I still don't understand your real problem since some serious pirates already stated their concerns and that actually improving sentry fire wasn't one problem for them. Can you actually explain something without insulting personally someone not sharing your obvious knowledge and internet importance?
brb |
Jerick Ludhowe
Toxic Waste Industries
122
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:29:00 -
[189] - Quote
/signed |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:30:00 -
[190] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Scion Lex wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Scion Lex wrote:....oh and /signed! Reading with sunglasses at night is bad, specially after drinking. Read again. Is that the best you could come up with? Stop trying to be cute and post on your main, coward. Ho I could be as cruel flashy red like you and also insult you, witch is against forum rules of course if we start insulting each other because of pixels stuff. I still don't understand your real problem since some serious pirates already stated their concerns and that actually improving sentry fire wasn't one problem for them. Can you actually explain something without insulting personally someone not sharing your obvious knowledge and internet importance?
Ok fine. Its the principle of the thing and the direction suggestions like these take the game will not benefit anyone. I consider it a slippery slope. If you really want to improve low sec you need to provide rewards that justify the risk. Then its a win win for everyone. All this does is attempt to solve the problem by limiting the options of other players....and it will do that. Pirating is just like trading or mining or anything else. Its a choice players make. It just so happens that its not a very profitable one for most involved. Allowing CCP to nerf our options in order to give you more is unfair and goes against what has made this a great place to play. This has been said repeatedly.
There are also plenty of people who operate in low sec as non-pirates all the time without serious issue. No more than should be expected in a combat zone. So again its the wrong direction to go. EVE is based on forcing adaptation. Making things easier in order to increase a given population is, and will always be, the wrong answer.
....is that pretty enough for ya?
|
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Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
122
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:32:00 -
[191] - Quote
Petrov Kreigt wrote:Tara Read wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. NO one ever puts a capital on a gate. And if they do it's because their stupid and will end up dying anyways. How much r*tard did your Mom put in your juice this morning? Look up RnK or anyone who uses heavy hotdrops/escalates fights. Moving on... If you want to change low sec, make it rewarding for people to venture in, there's no reason to unless you're farming Faction Warfare LP or need to cyno between places. Don't kill off Small gang PvP. Also, if you want to combat those who sit on a gate all day in instalocking T3's, remove the ability to dock ships on Orcas whilst they have GCC. Sorted. /Signed
I agree, CCP seems to be totally out of touch with how people play in lo sec. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
94
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:33:00 -
[192] - Quote
But Scion, nothing would be worth the risk because you would be insta-popped as soon as you tried to go chase that shiny thing. But thats probably what gate campers want right? "oh lets make it more valuable so that people come to low-sec...and we can pop more on the gates when they try to get it " |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
124
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:38:00 -
[193] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:But Scion, nothing would be worth the risk because you would be insta-popped as soon as you tried to go chase that shiny thing. But thats probably what gate campers want right? "oh lets make it more valuable so that people come to low-sec...and we can pop more on the gates when they try to get it "
There's this cool thing called less-used entry points and wormholes. Friends too. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
94
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:40:00 -
[194] - Quote
teach me, what are these...friends? and also, wouldn't there be mostly used entry points seeing as how tons of people would be there to get new stuffs? |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
124
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:43:00 -
[195] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:teach me, what are these...friends? and also, wouldn't there be mostly used entry points seeing as how tons of people would be there to get new stuffs?
You can't permacamp every gate.... |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:43:00 -
[196] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:But Scion, nothing would be worth the risk because you would be insta-popped as soon as you tried to go chase that shiny thing. But thats probably what gate campers want right? "oh lets make it more valuable so that people come to low-sec...and we can pop more on the gates when they try to get it "
Not true. TBH the only thing you are catching at a gate is a cruiser or BC that didn't bother to use an alt, ask a friend to scout or a hauler that doesn't know how to fraps warp. If you simply think ahead you can get through just fine. Or you wait. Your playing against humans, they will sleep at some point. Half the time we are drunk and watching **** anyway. Perhaps you give us pirates too much credit. Ya there are insta-lock setups out there...go back to my first line. Not to mention Dotlan gives instant updates and kills in system. I mean come on. There is a reason we call them carebears. Its not because you pve, we do that to. Its because you are painfully oblivious to what you need to do. Expecting CCP to 'make it better' is just plan sad. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
95
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:49:00 -
[197] - Quote
I'm just speculating to fuel more responses as it was getting stagnant. I personally have flown without issue from high-low-null and back multiple times, I've never been killed, there were a few camps but they didn't hurt me. Only time I got my ship blown up was in high-sec on like my first week in the game. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
611
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 23:54:00 -
[198] - Quote
Scion Lex wrote:Ok fine. Its the principle of the thing and the direction suggestions like these take the game will not benefit anyone. I consider it a slippery slope. If you really want to improve low sec you need to provide rewards that justify the risk. Then its a win win for everyone. All this does is attempt to solve the problem by limiting the options of other players....and it will do that. Pirating is just like trading or mining or anything else. Its a choice players make. It just so happens that its not a very profitable one for most involved. Allowing CCP to nerf our options in order to give you more is unfair and goes against what has made this a great place to play. This has been said repeatedly.
There are also plenty of people who operate in low sec as non-pirates all the time without serious issue. No more than should be expected in a combat zone. So again its the wrong direction to go. EVE is based on forcing adaptation. Making things easier in order to increase a given population is, and will always be, the wrong answer.
....is that pretty enough for ya?
I'll share my opinion with you from the beginning:
Too many wolves not enough sheep makes low sec what it is, thing is that wolves can't even admit this might be their fault, it's either dev's fault or sheep fault, the ones because they're incompetent and the others because they're lazy. This is the first problem.
Then reward problem, in fact there is none. Low sec has enough rewards and very profitable ones the moment you actually can do stuff there with a risk factor proportional to the reward, fut this factor is dead, the risk factor is more about extreme vs reward because wolves made it that way. Thing is there are so many hungry wolves out there the slightest sheep trying to do something more than travel in some cloacky ship is going to blow up in pieces FTL. Yes there are a couple systems with few dudes in and that actually might not even care about the pimp Tengu cleaning anoms for a couple weeks then get it and ransom, but this is more likely 5% of low sec population and I'm being generous. Yes there are some dudes willing to take some risks and actually get some reward but if so many people complain about the fact the reward doesn't cover by any means the risk is it maybe because of something else than every carebear is a stupid pig and pirates are all Einsteins, maybe?
So from a game design point of view, what's the real problem? -the environment or what players do with and how to solve this? Bring more rewards will not change the sheep attitude because the real problem is still wolves attitude. From there what can you do to make it different, add more value to the already existing that is clearly huge or make it so wolves get their liberties restrained a little bit? At some point you have to either change some mechanic or add a new one so the symbiosis works again or at least starts working at some point and finish once and for all with this perpetual (true) moaning about low sec being dead (I've never read a single post telling low sec was awesome without 50 behind telling was crap starting by wolves)
The gate guns idea is something to start about or maybe think about a better one, thing is that without more information I do feel concerned about real pirates travelling, eventually being unable to grab their reward (some pirate pointed this and I think it's interesting to include it), and most important roaming gangs.
Someone's idea about dmg scaling with gang size can be good but also something easily exploited, the current announced change and without more information seems a bit OP to me too but thing is that something must be done about those smartbombing camps and lazy stupid camping the same gate for hours without much to worry from gate guns.
Now that we've finished with love poems to each other, what do you think of my point of view?
brb |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 00:09:00 -
[199] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Scion Lex wrote:Ok fine. Its the principle of the thing and the direction suggestions like these take the game will not benefit anyone. I consider it a slippery slope. If you really want to improve low sec you need to provide rewards that justify the risk. Then its a win win for everyone. All this does is attempt to solve the problem by limiting the options of other players....and it will do that. Pirating is just like trading or mining or anything else. Its a choice players make. It just so happens that its not a very profitable one for most involved. Allowing CCP to nerf our options in order to give you more is unfair and goes against what has made this a great place to play. This has been said repeatedly.
There are also plenty of people who operate in low sec as non-pirates all the time without serious issue. No more than should be expected in a combat zone. So again its the wrong direction to go. EVE is based on forcing adaptation. Making things easier in order to increase a given population is, and will always be, the wrong answer.
....is that pretty enough for ya?
I'll share my opinion with you from the beginning: Too many wolves not enough sheep makes low sec what it is, thing is that wolves can't even admit this might be their fault, it's either dev's fault or sheep fault, the ones because they're incompetent and the others because they're lazy. This is the first problem. Then reward problem, in fact there is none. Low sec has enough rewards and very profitable ones the moment you actually can do stuff there with a risk factor proportional to the reward, fut this factor is dead, the risk factor is more about extreme vs reward because wolves made it that way. Thing is there are so many hungry wolves out there the slightest sheep trying to do something more than travel in some cloacky ship is going to blow up in pieces FTL. Yes there are a couple systems with few dudes in and that actually might not even care about the pimp Tengu cleaning anoms for a couple weeks then get it and ransom, but this is more likely 5% of low sec population and I'm being generous. Yes there are some dudes willing to take some risks and actually get some reward but if so many people complain about the fact the reward doesn't cover by any means the risk is it maybe because of something else than every carebear is a stupid pig and pirates are all Einsteins, maybe? So from a game design point of view, what's the real problem? -the environment or what players do with and how to solve this? Bring more rewards will not change the sheep attitude because the real problem is still wolves attitude. From there what can you do to make it different, add more value to the already existing that is clearly huge or make it so wolves get their liberties restrained a little bit? At some point you have to either change some mechanic or add a new one so the symbiosis works again or at least starts working at some point and finish once and for all with this perpetual (true) moaning about low sec being dead (I've never read a single post telling low sec was awesome without 50 behind telling was crap starting by wolves) The gate guns idea is something to start about or maybe think about a better one, thing is that without more information I do feel concerned about real pirates travelling, eventually being unable to grab their reward (some pirate pointed this and I think it's interesting to include it), and most important roaming gangs. Someone's idea about dmg scaling with gang size can be good but also something easily exploited, the current announced change and without more information seems a bit OP to me too but thing is that something must be done about those smartbombing camps and lazy stupid camping the same gate for hours without much to worry from gate guns. Now that we've finished with love poems to each other, what do you think of my point of view?
I think you are overstating our actual impact versus the psychological impact of pirates. The idea that you are going to be insta popped for showing up or that the low sec site runner as been driven into extinction is just not true. I really, think they are too scared to try. Now granted, there is a learning curve as with all things with eve. And, yes, we take advantage of that fact. The solution is well....education imo. I'm willing to bet that your average RvB pilot is more willing to come down to low sec after his training there. I'll concede that we have a lot to do with the public opinion about low sec being retardedly (not a word I know) dangerous. But, this idea will not change that and will not increase the population.
I'll also concede that there is money to be had. I make 60m an hour doing crappy anoms and not looting the joint. Probably over 100m just on anoms if I tried. You can pull a bill out of some of the sites. I understand that CCP wants people to go to low sec and wants to increase the population but this isn't the way to do it. Perhaps we need to teach them ourselves that lowsec isn't as scary as they have been told. |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 00:18:00 -
[200] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:I'm just speculating to fuel more responses as it was getting stagnant. I personally have flown without issue from high-low-null and back multiple times, I've never been killed, there were a few camps but they didn't hurt me. Only time I got my ship blown up was in high-sec on like my first week in the game.
This kinda makes my point....kinda. Where are all the non-pirates who don't have issues? Why are people not organizing to take advantage of whats down there. I get the sense that CCP would just rather us all go do Faction Warfare...and I have considered it. But pirating is an entrenched part of EVE now. Its a different kind of pvp and both ends of it require a certain understanding of the game you won't find anywhere else. I don't know how you will convince people to take on pirates. It makes no sense to not take on pirates but jump into faction war. I haven't done it, but is it that different? |
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
84
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 00:22:00 -
[201] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Tara Read wrote:same old bottle of *I don't want risk* Nothing you argue from the beginning shows low sec will be worst, you keep complaining and talking about null and your glorious null sec experience yadayada, it's ok, so lets move on and try to stick to the real problem you're making: low sec will die ! Why? -because you rage quit with the few actually thinking like you just like the guy above? Bah, let's admit for a second because of this change at least 15% of high sec population (many already lived in null/low/wh's) finds thins change finally the one that actually gives them the little plus for a try and actually accept the risk to go there for better rewards. It's far more players getting in to low sec than whatever number leaves because they can't tank gates more than a few seconds. Serious pirates and good low sec players already stated this change will not change their way of low sec living, just change some tactics. The real problem will be something else: the roaming gangs and *gudfights* at gates (notice the difference) and the aggression system making so they can't loot the field and so make profits out of their activity. What are you proposing? I have one of proposal but not sure you're going to like it, take gate guns away and let bombs+bubbles be used in low sec. Is your problem solved now? so what exactly is that plus? That gate guns will think for these high sec pilots? That now because it is more of a disadvantage to risk anything on a gate if you are a Pirate that now these people will tip toe into low sec?
All you are stating is that low sec will turn into a carebear haven because pirates will leave. How is that any solution? How is there any drive now for people to desire to go to low sec? Because its easier? Because all the bad meanies packed up their **** and left?
Your argument is typical of the run of the mill carebear/nulk dweller. Your suggestion to turn low into null with bubbles for one proves this. We dont want low sec to be like null sec. We live in low sec because its different. Cant you see this?
Of course not. Because you implied all the "good" pirates who will simply exploit these changes for cheap quick kills instead of being comitted to a fight.
|
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 00:24:00 -
[202] - Quote
...exactly |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
84
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 00:26:00 -
[203] - Quote
Petrov Kreigt wrote:Tara Read wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. NO one ever puts a capital on a gate. And if they do it's because their stupid and will end up dying anyways. How much r*tard did your Mom put in your juice this morning? Look up RnK or anyone who uses heavy hotdrops/escalates fights. Moving on... If you want to change low sec, make it rewarding for people to venture in, there's no reason to unless you're farming Faction Warfare LP or need to cyno between places. Don't kill off Small gang PvP. Also, if you want to combat those who sit on a gate all day in instalocking T3's, remove the ability to dock ships on Orcas whilst they have GCC. Sorted. /Signed
I wish I had a juice box. Actually if you read further back I clarified what I stated. I Meant to say solo capitals. As in a lone person camping not in a fleet support role. Again it was 5 am X//X
Damn juice sounds good now. |
Durbon Groth
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 00:30:00 -
[204] - Quote
/ signed
I think this mechanic is made with the best of intentions to improve lowsec, but unfortunately getting rid of the cliche static gatecamp just won't cut it. The mechanic seems to be poorly thought out - every change in eve is adapted to quickly and effectively by the members of the eve community and this will be no different. I can imagine now the off grid gatecamps with massive DPS ships and the evolution of the fastest ganks in history, and of course the end of the traditionally easy ways into low - i.e frigates and cov ops ships. I see vast numbers of systems turned into massive games of hit-and run chicken, where the fights are fought in 30 seconds or not fought at all. And I see the lone baiting interceptor able to kill anything in under 3 minutes. Bait, point, wait, scoop loot. Lowsec needs love, but you're just trying to friend-zone us!
Shameless self promotion: See https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1426523#post1426523 for my lowsec carebear survival guide!! |
Renan Ruivo
Irmandade Vera Cruz Alliance
841
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 00:31:00 -
[205] - Quote
+1 to op's feelings. Please no change sentries. The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
612
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 00:51:00 -
[206] - Quote
Scion Lex wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Scion Lex wrote:Ok fine. Its the principle of the thing and the direction suggestions like these take the game will not benefit anyone. I consider it a slippery slope. If you really want to improve low sec you need to provide rewards that justify the risk. Then its a win win for everyone. All this does is attempt to solve the problem by limiting the options of other players....and it will do that. Pirating is just like trading or mining or anything else. Its a choice players make. It just so happens that its not a very profitable one for most involved. Allowing CCP to nerf our options in order to give you more is unfair and goes against what has made this a great place to play. This has been said repeatedly.
There are also plenty of people who operate in low sec as non-pirates all the time without serious issue. No more than should be expected in a combat zone. So again its the wrong direction to go. EVE is based on forcing adaptation. Making things easier in order to increase a given population is, and will always be, the wrong answer.
....is that pretty enough for ya?
I'll share my opinion with you from the beginning: Too many wolves not enough sheep makes low sec what it is, thing is that wolves can't even admit this might be their fault, it's either dev's fault or sheep fault, the ones because they're incompetent and the others because they're lazy. This is the first problem. Then reward problem, in fact there is none. Low sec has enough rewards and very profitable ones the moment you actually can do stuff there with a risk factor proportional to the reward, fut this factor is dead, the risk factor is more about extreme vs reward because wolves made it that way. Thing is there are so many hungry wolves out there the slightest sheep trying to do something more than travel in some cloacky ship is going to blow up in pieces FTL. Yes there are a couple systems with few dudes in and that actually might not even care about the pimp Tengu cleaning anoms for a couple weeks then get it and ransom, but this is more likely 5% of low sec population and I'm being generous. Yes there are some dudes willing to take some risks and actually get some reward but if so many people complain about the fact the reward doesn't cover by any means the risk is it maybe because of something else than every carebear is a stupid pig and pirates are all Einsteins, maybe? So from a game design point of view, what's the real problem? -the environment or what players do with and how to solve this? Bring more rewards will not change the sheep attitude because the real problem is still wolves attitude. From there what can you do to make it different, add more value to the already existing that is clearly huge or make it so wolves get their liberties restrained a little bit? At some point you have to either change some mechanic or add a new one so the symbiosis works again or at least starts working at some point and finish once and for all with this perpetual (true) moaning about low sec being dead (I've never read a single post telling low sec was awesome without 50 behind telling was crap starting by wolves) The gate guns idea is something to start about or maybe think about a better one, thing is that without more information I do feel concerned about real pirates travelling, eventually being unable to grab their reward (some pirate pointed this and I think it's interesting to include it), and most important roaming gangs. Someone's idea about dmg scaling with gang size can be good but also something easily exploited, the current announced change and without more information seems a bit OP to me too but thing is that something must be done about those smartbombing camps and lazy stupid camping the same gate for hours without much to worry from gate guns. Now that we've finished with love poems to each other, what do you think of my point of view? I think you are overstating our actual impact versus the psychological impact of pirates. The idea that you are going to be insta popped for showing up or that the low sec site runner as been driven into extinction is just not true. I really, think they are too scared to try. Now granted, there is a learning curve as with all things with eve. And, yes, we take advantage of that fact. The solution is well....education imo. I'm willing to bet that your average RvB pilot is more willing to come down to low sec after his training there. I'll concede that we have a lot to do with the public opinion about low sec being retardedly (not a word I know) dangerous. But, this idea will not change that and will not increase the population. I'll also concede that there is money to be had. I make 60m an hour doing crappy anoms and not looting the joint. Probably over 100m just on anoms if I tried. You can pull a bill out of some of the sites. I understand that CCP wants people to go to low sec and wants to increase the population but this isn't the way to do it. Perhaps we need to teach them ourselves that lowsec isn't as scary as they have been told.
brb |
John Kony
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 13:35:00 -
[207] - Quote
Delicious piratey tears. |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 13:44:00 -
[208] - Quote
This is a rehash of my posts in C & P (sorry for the wall of text in advance)
I have given this alot of thought in the last day or so and, initially, I was totally outraged like a lot of other pirates. Then I realized that this isn't about piracy as much as its about gate camps. CCP hasn't come out and said this but the psychological barrier of gate camps and piracy is literally costing them money and players. I know people who have never played eve and part of the reason they don't is because of pirates and gate camps.....and they have never even seen one. I think its stupid, but if a lot of people really feel that way then I guess something has to change in order to expand the game at large. Keep in mind I think this is a psychological issue, not an actual game mechanic issue.
During fanfest I remember them sort of harping on where people live in the game. They showed a chart of the Lowsec, Highsec, Null and Wormhole populations. Then they went on to talk about how 'we' needed to be nicer to the new players because....well they quit. And think about it who do they run into first? Pirates....and we are merciless. So the perception is that you can't even get in the door of lowsec cause Pirates are sitting on the gates 24/7...which is flat out not true. CCP, clearly, wants to remove that psychological barrier by removing gate camping. It think its that simple.
I'm not a big gate camper myself. I'd rather catch them with their pants down at a customs office or in an Anom/site. If there are more people that 'feel' like they can come to lowsec then I can do that more often. I don't think this idea is fleshed out and, therefore I do not support it. Yet, I think I understand where they are comming from. Its about money, increasing the population and keeping people in the game....which goes back to money.
-
Who is paying these people? Isn't it us? The fact that some people, including myself, are enraged by the fact that something NO ONE thought was broken is being tinkered with (even in theory) shouldn't surprise anyone. I think think CCP needs to address the actual issue....though I'm not sure they can. Not because they aren't smarting enough, but because I don't think its something that can be coded away. You can't remove fear and stigma with code and THAT is the problem with lowsec. Yes you can change the mechanic but not the mindset. Thats just not how it works. People will still be afraid to go to lowsec and pirates will still prey on those that are inexperienced in combat. The only way to get that experience is to do it.
If the CSM or CCP wants to improve lowsec then that is what they have to address. The best way to do that is to educate the population. Put out a guide. A step by step "read this and you will survive" guide with CCP's big fat logo on it. Do that and they will come in droves. Your issue is that new players are not transitioning to lowsec or beyond. Then teach them how. You made the is game wonderfully complicated...painfully complicated. When you added the turtorials I was impressed. Implementing the skills and certs system was a brilliant move. This falls well short of that brilliance.
Don't nerf the game, buff the players. Sponsor the creation of a complete and comprehensive combat guide that will be available to every player. Gather all the minds from say EVE U, RvB and other and make that knowledge available to everyone. That is the only REAL way to address your long term concerns CCP. Invest in your players, don't nerf the product.
Its about psychological impact of piracy. I do not think that can be overstated. I think CCP HAS to be called out on this. Because, if I'm right, then a major drive to educate the next generation of players on how to pvp is the only answer. Not just the mechanic of pvp, but solid tactics based on experience. I also think its key that CCP put their stamp on it and post it as a pdf. Without that its just another random guide that won't be taken seriously. It needs to be taken as seriously as any other "official" guide. It should be about pvp combat ONLY and should be clearly marked as such. I truly believe that is were they should put there efforts. We can't allow this game to become wow. We have the best players on the planet because of the challenging enviroment presented here. Give them the tools they need and they will step up.
-
Here's a prime example of what im talking about:
http://www.eve-guides.com/ -everything you need to carebear it up....nothing on pvp.
-http://www.eveproguides.com videos, but you have to give them an email for the first vid....not sure what that leads too.
-Youtube Lots and lots of videos, but most are pirates and experienced pvpers and would probably intimidate the hell out of a new player. The ones that are teaching you stuff are a bit hard to follow imo.
-Isk guide if you read it you know it speaks in generalizations on the subject of pvp and isnt that helpful
CCP- A PI vid and a exploration vid and they do both poorly.
-The Beginners Guide to Piracy http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=936500 Probably the best guide out there and its STILL incomplete
We can do better than this and CCP needs to have a direct hand in it to see that its completed. That is if they are serious about promoting EVE and solving the lowsec issue. You have to get the information in the hands of the players. As said above not everyone has the time or the motivation to seek this stuff out. Make getting the info easier, not the game.
|
Butzewutze
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 13:52:00 -
[209] - Quote
The problem i see here is that you Greyscale somehow think: "increased security" means "increased traffic". But what exactly do you want them to do there in lowsec? They should go there and do what -> "?".
I understand that you dont want to deal with offending comments and such but people are not upset because of the changes. People are upset because you (as a representant of ccp) show that you dont know your own game -> Thats the reason you get so many bad comments. |
Turgesson
Five-0 Suddenly Spaceships.
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 14:02:00 -
[210] - Quote
Sooo...sentry guns now fire on you for just having negative SS in low sec?
Yeah, do that I dare ya. Your pay check is more important to you than your game is to me. Any more brilliant changes to capture the inevitable FLOOD of new money after the upcoming BLOCKBUSTER DUST release that will have people flocking to low sec to earn more aurum to buy more monocles?...what do you guys have a team of pot-smoking monkeys working on this? |
|
Krall Hoar
Babylon Enterprises
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 14:23:00 -
[211] - Quote
If CCP is going to do that, they will kill every little bit thats left of beeing a real pirate (not those highsec gankers, thiefs or 0.0-pvp guys who think they are pirates cause they kill ships). How should we operate in low sec if anytime you get close to a gate you get some DMG. Is it right that a pirate commign back to his home base in an outlaw region will be fired on by his own home bases guns? I am playing since Oct 2003, I just had to undsubscribe for 6 month at all due to lack of money, but if they do this, then I really have to consider to end my EVE accounts, something I never really thought about in all those years |
Maledictum Aideron
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 14:49:00 -
[212] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Cyprus Black wrote:I would like to start a petition that cancels out this petition. A game change that's actually an improvement to lowsec is a good thing and these morons want to keep the currently broken status quo?
Nay I say. Give a like and quote this post to show that common sense triumphs over stupid lowsec morons who are just in it for easy kills (I'm also a like *****). Except that this isn't an improvement at all. You seem buttsore about lazy meanie head gankers just after cheap easy kills but these changes will reduce lowsec to nothing BUT that, as any bigger or more meaningful engagements will be artificially prevented. You'll see a RISE in the amount of people who are only out for easy quick ganks, as it'll be the only game in town.
So nothing will change then?
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4412
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 14:50:00 -
[213] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's absurdly easy and safe to travel through lo-sec these days. I moved a god damb Noctis through Rancer this wee for christ's sake. Ok, sorry if I gave you the impression that I know abso-fing-lutely nothing about this game... My point beeing: A few years back, I didn*t have to take extra precautions if I had to make a quick trip to 0.4 to shortcut for a mission, or to pickup some merchandise. Not that there where no gate camps back then, mind you, they just didn't pop any T1 frig our hauler back then, just for the heck of it... same with suicide gankers... what shee-niou practice is that?
My first ship loss, back in September 2006, was a frigate. An unfitted Kestrel, in fact. I'd wandered into lo-sec all innocent and unaware to get some cheap ammo and was promptly slaughtered by a pirate (o/ Vaughan, hope you're still playing).
People move 74 PLEX in a kestrel. I saw an Estamels Invuln in an Ibis killmail. They move a month's worth of LP store implants in a shuttle. They try and fly an entire alliance's BPO stash in an uncloaked Buzzard.
It is absolutely worth popping everything if you're a pirate. Spending the ammo on killing a frigate is basically playing the lottery: the cost is small, the odds are terrible but the jackpots can be huge. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
135
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 15:35:00 -
[214] - Quote
I think we all need to calm down here and just take a second to read and take in Malcanis' signature.
|
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
73
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 15:37:00 -
[215] - Quote
I actually liked the bit about smaller ships being able to take a couple sentry guns hits. I am not as familiar with GCC mechanics to comment on the rest. |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 15:40:00 -
[216] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:I actually liked the bit about smaller ships being able to take a couple sentry guns hits. I am not as familiar with GCC mechanics to comment on the rest.
why not? |
fenistil
Defensive Parameter
43
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 15:55:00 -
[217] - Quote
/signed http://defp.co.cc/recruitment |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1788
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 16:14:00 -
[218] - Quote
When in another thread I mentioned about the big EvE game mechanic defect of having all the PvP stuck at gates, stations and few other places, it opened people's eyes enough that some new threads have born talking about it.
Now let me mention another eye opener and this one is really a BIG eye opener for everybody.
"Why don't players come to low sec and risk, given the rewards?" Is it the stigma? Apparently it is, but that's not the true or most important deal breaker.
"Would increase reward make more guys come to low sec?" No. Don't believe me, try tripling the reward, not a dog will bother to come anyway.
So why, oh why low sec is "empty"?
The answer is in the sheep.
The fictional sheep needed to come to low sec with a promise of untold riches just does not exist. Not on the scale to make it relevant. In the past years ago there were some, but today's players are not the 2004 players.
The hi sec cattle - so to speak - is not the kind of sheep compatible with going to low sec. Or null sec for the matter. The do NOT play to risk. They play to "spend free time doing something fun / making me rich". They "play EvE for the "unknown" (notice the ""), for the flavour of impending risk. Impending but NEVER risk that becomes true. When they fail at that and actually face risk and loss, they are so shocked and annoyed that :tears: and :smack: happen. They never, never really wanted to play a risk vs reward game, just a "risk scented vs reward game". Stop a second and ponder on the cascading consequences of this statement. Given the hard choice they will always go for less reward if risk ever actually risks becoming true. No amount of reward will do, unless you really risk breaking the game in 2 months for how huge it would have to be.
In real life it'd be the politically correct middle class sneaking at softcore "sensual" (yay censorship) magazines. Half nipple is the maximum they self allow to trespass their morals with. They are just not going above that, they will never go out to the full thing.
Neither you nor CCP can do anything to change them, consider them "lost". They bring in a large number of good subs but they are in their own universe. A minority may be teached, may be convinced with huge efforts, with the "courses" spoken about above but it's still a statistically irrelevant nor staying number.
The kind of cattle you need is enterprising cattle, people willing to play a risk vs reward game. They are not the guys above, they are just not the same people.
And here comes the catch. Even among pirates, only a fraction are ready to play a risk vs reward game (how many spend their day just "PvE farming a gate" with overhelming force, ready to hightail if any danger / organized bunch comes? Same for null sec players, so many are just there because the blob gives them their safety feeling.
Out of the remaining very few players not identified by the above, how many are willing to be a sheep?
Because here's the underlying huge issue, if you really are a risk vs reward player you are probably NOT a sheep. You are the guy playing sheep just to cyno in 4 ships when the loner pirate warps close.
Risk vs reward players are the only ones who could want to risk for reward (doh!) yet this is typical of players who don't have the "victim" mindset and don't easily fall prey.
Basically, those who are in for the risk vs reward game are only the PvPers or those who are so much ready for PvP that they are basically equivalent to PvPers and scare PvPers away (EvE PvPers often times won't want to face a "fair fight"). Another negative factor is that "PvP ready" people don't really love to PvE in pimpboats all day long and become a target. They rather prefer being the ones killing the totally few guys who do. Often times they just don't like PvE at all, hard to play target when you are really only in for the PvP.
So what to do? FW is what comes close to the profile of a risk vs reward players (minus the PvE FW site orbiters of course). FW has to be iterated again and again till some mechanic makes it *possible* for risk vs reward people to engage in something worth killing.
Forget having the juicy hi sec sheep easily be baited by "rewards" and willing to come to you as sacrifical lambs, all you'll get are guys with sharp teeth who are smart enough to not be found by you when you want your fill of PvP on your terms. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 16:23:00 -
[219] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Forget having the juicy hi sec sheep easily be baited by "rewards" and willing to come to you as sacrifical lambs, all you'll get are guys with sharp teeth who are smart enough to not be found by you when you want your fill of PvP on your terms.
Im fine with that and willing to bet I WILL find them. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1788
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 16:27:00 -
[220] - Quote
Scion Lex wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Forget having the juicy hi sec sheep easily be baited by "rewards" and willing to come to you as sacrifical lambs, all you'll get are guys with sharp teeth who are smart enough to not be found by you when you want your fill of PvP on your terms.
Im fine with that and willing to bet I WILL find them.
Yeah but you know, those who will come, won't be in a corp called "Fluffybunnies indy miners" but in some "Predators are us YARR!" (you know it's not unknown to you ) with all skulls and bones on the corp logo.
I don't see them being abundant at all. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
|
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
102
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 17:07:00 -
[221] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Eugene Kerner wrote:Guess its just what Sony tells CCP: Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)... I never even thought about the inability to ransom someone. Well this actually DOES kill Piracy in it's truest form.....
Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization.
Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps.
THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Raya Chandragupta
Observant Eye Inc
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 17:24:00 -
[222] - Quote
I will not unsubscribe.
My advice to CCP Greyscale: Don't listen to the usual whiners and "I will unsubscribe" victims... but do listen to this guy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1739951#post1739951. He has a point. |
Scion Lex
Predator's Inc. Solid Foundation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 18:21:00 -
[223] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Scion Lex wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Forget having the juicy hi sec sheep easily be baited by "rewards" and willing to come to you as sacrifical lambs, all you'll get are guys with sharp teeth who are smart enough to not be found by you when you want your fill of PvP on your terms.
Im fine with that and willing to bet I WILL find them. Yeah but you know, those who will come, won't be in a corp called "Fluffybunnies indy miners" but in some "Predators are us YARR!" (you know it's not unknown to you ) with all skulls and bones on the corp logo. I don't see them being abundant at all.
I hope you dont think helpless targets are all I, or most pirates, actually want. I don't think thats the case. I am not advocating that CCP create a single, up-to-date source of pvp information thinking it will create easy targets. I am hoping for the opposite. I am starting a corp right now to do just that; train highsec pilots on how to pvp in lowsec. Im putting my money where my mouth is and stepping up. In fact anyone interested in giving lowsec a shot is free to evemail me. |
Garreth Vlox
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 19:03:00 -
[224] - Quote
/signed |
Icecar
Feasible Deniability
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 19:06:00 -
[225] - Quote
I find it funny how all you lowsec pirates like to call gang-raping single ships "pvp." Honestly you guys have had this coming to you for a while. Karma is a *****. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
123
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 19:28:00 -
[226] - Quote
Icecar wrote:I find it funny how all you lowsec pirates like to call gang-raping single ships "pvp." Honestly you guys have had this coming to you for a while. Karma is a *****.
Try actually paying attention to the discussion before you run your mouth, might look less stupid that way.
Back on topic - As much as we disagree on most things i think Vaerah Vahrokha has pretty much hit it on the head, most high sec dwellers simply dont have the mindset to even want to peek into lowsec let alone live there.
The only activity Ive seen that got any more high sec people to come to lowsec was PI, and as far as i can see thats for two reasons.
1. Once you have your planet set up you can do your pickups in a cloaky hauler in almost complete safety and still reap the increased rewards.
2. When the POCOs were introduced it actually gave pirate corps an incentive not to shoot guys who PI'd in their space simply because if you leave them alone you make some money too. |
YuuKnow
391
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 20:28:00 -
[227] - Quote
Is this the first whine thread for the proposed changes?
Low sec is FUBARed in terms of risk/rewards Low sec activity minimal and gates easily blockaded. I like these changes. In some ways low sec may even behave much like a TQ version of Sisi rules.
yk |
YuuKnow
391
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 20:46:00 -
[228] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.
Please don't yield to a minority of loud whiners. There will always be a percentage of players that resist change and while loudly. The low-sec game as it is needs some major overhauls, more than just more ore or higher bounties.
I applaud CCP for making fundamental and bold changes to address the problem.
yk |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
91
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 20:53:00 -
[229] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Tara Read wrote:Eugene Kerner wrote:Guess its just what Sony tells CCP: Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)... I never even thought about the inability to ransom someone. Well this actually DOES kill Piracy in it's truest form..... Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization. Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps. THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat.
I couldn't agree more. I do not kill those whom I've ransomed but that doesn't stop others from doing so. Call me old fashioned but I remember the rush I got the first time I saw my wallet flash after i opened chat with my victim. Sadly Piracy in its truest form has fallen to the wayside to be replaced by with hotdrops, titan bridges and the like. Pirates have adapted null sec tactics though be it on a smaller scale to be effective.
And who's to say we don't already run our alliance like the mafia providing protection for a price. To be frank I sort of wish they would remove killmails completely. I think im going to bring this up to other members simply because this is how I've always been as a pirate. Its not all about kills. The psychological impact you have on other is what makes it interesting. |
Jaangel
Cloak and Badgers
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 20:54:00 -
[230] - Quote
I think the proposed changes in this iteration are dread full.
I believe these changes would destroy low sec, taking something that is quiet active in pockets to empty.
Frigates being able to stay on gate for a short time is a good idea.
Limiting battles though increasing damage would destroy small gang PVP IMO. Sometimes the only way you can destroy a larger target is through bleeding it's tank over time.
i also believe caps ability to be used in low sec is also crucial to smaller corps wanting to step into alliances.
These changes in there current iteration would be a major nerf to the pirate life style. Low sec needs a buff. If this idea was implemented with the damage increasing over a period of an hour. enabling firgates to fight for short periods of time and capitals to still be used. It might be more workable.
|
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Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
91
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 20:55:00 -
[231] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Please don't yield to a minority of loud whiners. There will always be a percentage of players that resist change and while loudly. The low-sec game as it is needs some major overhauls, more than just more ore or higher bounties. I applaud CCP for making fundamental and bold changes to address the problem. yk
So you insult those who openly discuss the pros and cons yet you give no credible reason as to why this would draw others to low sec. Its Already been discussed that this would change little in terms of low sec population. |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 21:58:00 -
[232] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Tara Read wrote:Eugene Kerner wrote:Guess its just what Sony tells CCP: Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)... I never even thought about the inability to ransom someone. Well this actually DOES kill Piracy in it's truest form..... Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization. Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps. THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat. I couldn't agree more. I do not kill those whom I've ransomed but that doesn't stop others from doing so. Call me old fashioned but I remember the rush I got the first time I saw my wallet flash after i opened chat with my victim. Sadly Piracy in its truest form has fallen to the wayside to be replaced by with hotdrops, titan bridges and the like. Pirates have adapted null sec tactics though be it on a smaller scale to be effective. And who's to say we don't already run our alliance like the mafia providing protection for a price. To be frank I sort of wish they would remove killmails completely. I think im going to bring this up to other members simply because this is how I've always been as a pirate. Its not all about kills. The psychological impact you have on other is what makes it interesting.
I didn't mean anyone specifically, but just in general. But I like the way you think. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
91
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 22:22:00 -
[233] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Tara Read wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Tara Read wrote:Eugene Kerner wrote:Guess its just what Sony tells CCP: Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)... I never even thought about the inability to ransom someone. Well this actually DOES kill Piracy in it's truest form..... Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization. Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps. THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat. I couldn't agree more. I do not kill those whom I've ransomed but that doesn't stop others from doing so. Call me old fashioned but I remember the rush I got the first time I saw my wallet flash after i opened chat with my victim. Sadly Piracy in its truest form has fallen to the wayside to be replaced by with hotdrops, titan bridges and the like. Pirates have adapted null sec tactics though be it on a smaller scale to be effective. And who's to say we don't already run our alliance like the mafia providing protection for a price. To be frank I sort of wish they would remove killmails completely. I think im going to bring this up to other members simply because this is how I've always been as a pirate. Its not all about kills. The psychological impact you have on other is what makes it interesting. I didn't mean anyone specifically, but just in general. But I like the way you think.
Thanks. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9048
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 22:29:00 -
[234] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:I couldn't agree more. I do not kill those whom I've ransomed but that doesn't stop others from doing so. Call me old fashioned but I remember the rush I got the first time I saw my wallet flash after i opened chat with my victim. Sadly Piracy in its truest form has fallen to the wayside to be replaced by with hotdrops, titan bridges and the like. Pirates have adapted null sec tactics though be it on a smaller scale to be effective.
And who's to say we don't already run our alliance like the mafia providing protection for a price. To be frank I sort of wish they would remove killmails completely. I think im going to bring this up to other members simply because this is how I've always been as a pirate. Its not all about kills. The psychological impact you have on other is what makes it interesting. Nice post and I couldn't have said it better myself.
I have said it before, if we killed everything, we'd be doing it wrong. We are there to make ISK and right now because low sec has no real benefit outside of high and null, our money making area is a gate. Instead of nerfing our only money making spot, why not create more money making spots? Boost low, don't nerf it.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies The Unthinkables
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 23:46:00 -
[235] - Quote
i like the proposed changes. yeah i get shot at...so? I'm a dirty pirate i killz you anyways and get away with it. |
Sekket
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 01:09:00 -
[236] - Quote
I while back another player suggested that instead of arriving at another gate that ships should instead appear at a warp-in point around the star in the destination system.
I thought it was pretty radical at the time, but after thinking about it for a while it does seem to be the way to go. It still provides the ability to try and intercept players on the other side but removes the gate guns from the equation. - CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9048
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 01:22:00 -
[237] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:i like the proposed changes. yeah i get shot at...so? I'm a dirty pirate i killz you anyways and get away with it. But this is the whole point, we still kill with these unnecessary changes. But the difference with this change means no ransoms, as who want to be hanging around when the guns start to really hurt.
So more deaths not less and with a reduced income for pirates (who live in and off low sec traffic). What was it he was trying to solve again?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 01:50:00 -
[238] - Quote
Icecar wrote:I find it funny how all you lowsec pirates like to call gang-raping single ships "pvp." Honestly you guys have had this coming to you for a while. Karma is a *****.
I find it funny how many high sec players think this is pirates whining that their game just got harder. You guys don't understand how sentry or most of crimewatch mechanics changes will hurt the entire game as a whole. I can dock a combat ship under current GCC sentry fire and get back out of it in an untanked helios to scan another half-wit when the situation warrants it. Sentry changes won't stop that it will only give a false sense of security. Here are a couple examples for the uninformed masses which I'm pretty sure includes the Greyscale dev guy:
A dessy or interceptor can now survive a shot or 2 from sentries to tackle? AWESOME!!!! because the sentries can't hit the sniper munnins camping the gate.
Suspect flag now gives someone a global tag for anyone to aggress? Ok...I flag myself and warp 100 off a busy mission hub gate. My fleet is comprised of RR battleships but comes to the gate and begins to shoot me a little bit to make it look like there is an entire fleet pounding on the "suspect". When foolish players burn out to ***** on a killmail the aggressor fleet now becomes suspect RR for me. They now get a suspect flag,too...but who cares it's a organized fleet the best thing that could happen is more random idiots start shooting.
They should change the name of this stuff from Crimewatch to Deception. What was really needed was the aggression timer for rr and maybe a longer time to dock after aggro to address some of the docking game issues. What they are doing is packing 10 pounds of bullshit into a 5 pound bag with a shiny bow... |
EliteStealth
B.A.S.E. Consortium Fusion.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 08:24:00 -
[239] - Quote
SIGNED.....WITH AN EMPHASIS ON THAT
Also if Eve is a sandbox why is ccp trying to take away from that mechanic??? Honestly if people like low sec and aren't complaining then wy change it? Furthermore the game isn't about making it easier its about willpower, strength, and determination. The best quote from EVEONLINE I have ever heard is Wow gives you a cookie for each of your accomplishments...EVEONLINE takes your cookie eats it in front of you and laughs at you for brining one in the first place... |
Tysinger
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 08:39:00 -
[240] - Quote
My question is, how the **** does CCP Greyscale still have a job? That guy has screwed up everything he as ever touched in EVE.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
422
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 08:46:00 -
[241] - Quote
EliteStealth wrote:SIGNED.....WITH AN EMPHASIS ON THAT
Also if Eve is a sandbox why is ccp trying to take away from that mechanic??? Honestly if people like low sec and aren't complaining then wy change it? Furthermore the game isn't about making it easier its about willpower, strength, and determination. The best quote from EVEONLINE I have ever heard is Wow gives you a cookie for each of your accomplishments...EVEONLINE takes your cookie eats it in front of you and laughs at you for brining one in the first place... I think the main problem is that Lo-sec is a ghost town and people are complaining about it, just not the pirates who live there. As to the cookie this is stealing part of a pirates cookie and giving it to someone else.
To be honest given the population levels of Lo-sec, you should all be proud. Just about everyone in lo-sec must have come on to these forums by now to complain about this change.
Well at least we have a forum to point to if lo-sec dwellers ever complain that Lo-sec is so dead.
See look what happened last time they thought about changing Lo-sec https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=139926 Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 10:07:00 -
[242] - Quote
I just found out that CCP Greyscale was in the year above me at Secondary School. We were both in the computer club. He needs to comply with this thread or I will go and get a camera and get film of his old teachers relating hilarious anectdotes about how adorable he was with his squeaky little voice.
And for confirmation, the first teachers I will talk to will be Mr Fenton & Mr Sandercock (Yes we had a teacher called Sandercock. We used to call him "Gritdick" behind his back).
DUN
DUN
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN |
ANGRY23
the united Negative Ten.
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 10:40:00 -
[243] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs. Quoting myself. This is a spitball idea that we shared with the CSM, not a final design.
I call a big phat bull on your comments there. You have the cheek to talk about finalising design which tell me u dont give a **** about any of the forum posts or what any of us think and are gonna just as usual saya big FU ima put that content in anyway because i dont care about the ppl who subscribe to this game and pay my wages. Then you change the goalposts saying its an idea not a final design, make your mind up greyscale/ I havent seen anything constructive from you or your collegues in any of the threads that have appeared all over your forums regarding this idiotic and moronic idea.
The fact you are even discussing this or thinking about it show me and the rest of the player base you have no idea about any game mechanics outside of highsec. Feel free actually have some discussion with the now thousands of players talking about quitting and unsubbing if this goes thru. You can also log on to sisi and test current sentry mechnics in all subcap ships if you like but you done that before u started this stupidity didnt you?
I just think you are out of touch with the game you are breaking one patch at a time.
Angry
I have created a channel ingame for like minded individuals out there who are -10 and wanna fight our corner regarding this moronic "idea" or is it "design". Channel is called "Stop the Rot" This has the potential to be incarna sized sh1tstorm so if u agree with me and wanna tag along for the ride then join my channel. I'll be posting in channels and forums to drum up support as this debacle unfolds.
JOIN "Stop the Rot" INGAME
|
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1667
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 11:13:00 -
[244] - Quote
*LOL*
You guys are such pussies, it's incredible ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
81
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 11:25:00 -
[245] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Tara Read wrote:Eugene Kerner wrote:Guess its just what Sony tells CCP: Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)... I never even thought about the inability to ransom someone. Well this actually DOES kill Piracy in it's truest form..... Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization. Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps. THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat.
We always honor ransom.
And btw the changes do not really hurt the campers but everyone else. I f we can use fast frig tacklers at the gate...damn NOBODY will be save, no cloaky transport no covert ops. It harms the real pvp where two + parties slowly escalate a fight. Camps wil just be even more organized as they are now. |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 11:58:00 -
[246] - Quote
What an immense amount of whining :-)
Its an aberration that any gate camping is possible in supposed empire space. Hopefully if done right this improves non-pirate activity in LS, if it doesn't its a failure. If it does that means there is more things to kill - just not on gates and pirates will have to work harder for the kill mails, or work harder to organise camps.
HTFU and go camp in 0.0 if thats your preferred play style.... :-p
|
ANGRY23
the united Negative Ten.
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 12:02:00 -
[247] - Quote
betoli wrote:What an immense amount of whining :-)
Its an aberration that any gate camping is possible in supposed empire space. Hopefully if done right this improves non-pirate activity in LS, if it doesn't its a failure. If it does that means there is more things to kill - just not on gates and pirates will have to work harder for the kill mails, or work harder to organise camps.
HTFU and go camp in 0.0 if thats your preferred play style.... :-p
Another idiot that has no clue about game mechanics and cant read. This isnt just about camping u tit its about small fleet warfare in low sec that 99% of the time takes place on gates and stations. Go read up on game mechanics and low sec before bashing the keyboard with ur club hands |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 12:13:00 -
[248] - Quote
ANGRY23 wrote:betoli wrote:What an immense amount of whining :-)
Its an aberration that any gate camping is possible in supposed empire space. Hopefully if done right this improves non-pirate activity in LS, if it doesn't its a failure. If it does that means there is more things to kill - just not on gates and pirates will have to work harder for the kill mails, or work harder to organise camps.
HTFU and go camp in 0.0 if thats your preferred play style.... :-p
Another idiot that has no clue about game mechanics and cant read. This isnt just about camping u tit its about small fleet warfare in low sec that 99% of the time takes place on gates and stations. Go read up on game mechanics and low sec before bashing the keyboard with ur club hands
Your name suits you :-)
From what I read in the minutes, the definition of 'suspect' isn't defined yet. Whats the difference between a gatecamp and small fleet warefare that happens at gates BTW? Why can't these roams happen in null? aha the bubbles and the thought that you might run into someone elses camp......
ETA: the ideal effect is that more carebears venture into ls, and more ls pirates venture into null overall migrating everyone into riskier space. |
Gud
the united Negative Ten.
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 12:27:00 -
[249] - Quote
betoli wrote:ETA: the ideal effect is that more carebears venture into ls, and more ls pirates venture into null overall migrating everyone into riskier space
Most pirates I have come across are vetrans of Eve Online and have done the null sec stuff, and get bored of ETA's and all the bull that goes with it, Being in Neg Ten suits my game style atm with my RL balance, so why would LS pirates want to go back to Null.
Dont think non pirates realise how much work goes into being successful in low sec, should try it, then form an opinion on these changes
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9049
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 12:36:00 -
[250] - Quote
betoli wrote:ETA: the ideal effect is that more carebears venture into ls, and more ls pirates venture into null overall migrating everyone into riskier space. The fact you think null is riskier space, says it all.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
|
Alara IonStorm
2886
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 12:41:00 -
[251] - Quote
betoli wrote: ETA: the ideal effect is that more carebears venture into ls, and more ls pirates venture into null overall migrating everyone into riskier space.
What makes you think Carebears should ever enter Lo-Sec at all. PvE'ers yes absolutely and they do enter Lo-Sec.
If you spend time in Lo-Sec you will notice 3 things right right off the bat.
1. Most of the people in Local are not Pirates. 2. Most of the people in Lo-Sec won't attack you, they would rather go about their business. 3. Almost all non Pirates who go to or live in Low-Sec have assets there at their disposal.
They have friends on call. Frequently traveled systems and used stations. They have people with Carriers to stay mobile. They drop into an area of their choosing and setup stakes. If an enemy comes more often then not they will pull back and the pirates will move on. If they start sticking around they will knock them back or pull up stakes and move to a new system. Solo PvE'ers and Explorers on the other hand are another breed you see often using back water routes and specialized ships. They don't mind taking a lose or two because they are good enough to escape 99% of the time.
Low-Sec right now is group space. Full of PvE'ers, Pirates, Weekend PvP'ers from Hi and Null, general corporations, Anti Pirates, Solo Explorers and FW.
Why you think Carebears who by nature do not form up, share intel, are 100% risk adverse and complain everytime they lose a ship belong in PvP capable space is beyond me. EVE's so called Carebear population is lower then the forums make it out to be. The rewards of Lo-Sec are too low for the effort currently.
In essence Lo-Sec is a place majorly for small Corporations who set themselves up not Carebears. If CCP wants to boost Lo-Sec that is who they should be catering too.
The irony of this is the mechanics are setup to neither help Lo-Sec residents and built with more then enough loop holes to allow for camping solely of solo carebears. This accomplishes no goal other then making the space less fun for PvP'ers and no PvP'ers does not just mean Pirates. More then not you are likely to see a High Sec Gang looking for Pirates to kill as well.
There is a Lo-Sec community that enjoys the space. Why nerf their fun? |
Halcyon Ingenium
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
155
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 12:54:00 -
[252] - Quote
With respect to your OP, I'll sign if you can show that your interpretation of "suspect" is the one actually intended for a change in game mechanics purposes. As funny as I find your day being ruined, I don't find funny changes to mechanics that have no clear purpose or reason behind them, or those changes which it seems obvious to me will not have the effect intended. This change, if your interpretation of "suspect" is indeed more than just arm flapping panic, would fall in the later category.
As to changes to get people into low, or at least more passing through, the answer is obvious. You don't see it because you assume everyone in null actually flies from null to high and back again. It's like you don't even realize there is another way to make that trip. You seem as blind to it as all the high sec peeps that whine about bottlenecks to null, not realizing every null area has a back door wide open for anyone, unguarded, to fly straight through.
Jeebuz, don't you people look at things like maps and skillbooks? Never mind, I already know the answer. They say that in learning the game Go, it is best to lose your first 50 games as soon as possible. This is because Go is complex, and the only way you will start to get an idea of strategy and play is by first sucking and failing as hard as you can. So...In EVE, it is best to get your first 50 deaths by combat as soon as possible. |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 12:58:00 -
[253] - Quote
Mag's wrote:betoli wrote:ETA: the ideal effect is that more carebears venture into ls, and more ls pirates venture into null overall migrating everyone into riskier space. The fact you think null is riskier space, says it all.
Null is safer if your a part of a sov holding alliance in their own space. Small gang roaming in someone else's territory I would say was more risky, and if all the gatecampers were displaced into the fringes of null, quite a lot more risky, both for themselves and the residents.
Look at it another way - everyone wants their cake and eat it.
a) Small gangs want to operate in ls because other small gangs operate there and because of the lack of bubbles.
b) Pirate camps want to operate there because of occasional strays from high sec, HS<->null traffic and (a).
c) High sec dwellers don't want to operate there because the existence of (a) and (b) makes the risk/reward equation unfavourable.
IMO its important that c) is addressed. Its also important that (a) has somewhere to play... (b) however shouldn't whine because there are other places to camp, the whine is that if they go do it in null, they'll **** off the locals (ie no different to pissing of the empire factions). The B group want access to kill travellers in important space without repercussions from the owners of that space which makes **** all sense.
I'm not sure that the gate gun tweak is the perfect solution to this, however the sense of entitlement thats being demonstrated in wanting to be able to sit on the public transport network owned by a major faction and kill passers by is unbelievable - especially when there are areas that are not controlled by the factions.
|
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 13:11:00 -
[254] - Quote
No disagreeing with your post in the main, but;
Alara IonStorm wrote: The rewards of Lo-Sec are too low for the effort currently. To many small corps would rather rent space in Null then set up stakes in Lo.
This is a fact. The low density of LS is also a fact, though as you say some people play there.
You say reward, but actually its risk/reward that is the critical equation. There are two ways of fixing that, CCPs proposal addresses risk. I'd be happy to see a considerable reward buff as well (or instead of). But currently the equation is broken.
Alara IonStorm wrote: In essence Lo-Sec is a place majorly for small Corporations who set themselves up not Carebears. If CCP wants to boost Lo-Sec that is who they should be catering too.
The irony of this is the mechanics are setup to neither help Lo-Sec residents and built with more then enough loop holes to allow for camping solely of solo carebears. This accomplishes no goal other then making the space less fun for PvP'ers and no PvP'ers does not just mean Pirates. More then not you are likely to see a High Sec Gang looking for Pirates to kill as well.
There is a Lo-Sec community that enjoys the space. Why nerf their fun?
I'd hope I wasn't advocating nerfing anyones play style. ;-) My main cristicism of EVE over the years is that the risk gradient from HS to LS (and from 0.4 to 0.0) is too steep. That leads people into becoming carebears because it is a SANE decision that the risk of lowsec is not worth it. I wonder if the change as proposed only being applied to 0.4 and 0.3 in combination with a slight reward bump, and a major reward bump in 0.1 0.2 would be better received?
Gatecamping itself is a pisspoor mechanic for creating conflict, we shouldn't defend the right to gatecamp, we should be creating better ways for players to engage. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9049
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 13:16:00 -
[255] - Quote
betoli wrote:I'm not sure that the gate gun tweak is the perfect solution to this, however the sense of entitlement thats being demonstrated in wanting to be able to sit on the public transport network owned by a major faction and kill passers by is unbelievable - especially when there are areas that are not controlled by the factions. So where exactly are we meant to catch people? You talk of sense of entitlement, but we live in low and that is how we make our living. This will not increase traffic or get more living there or increase so called real PvP. It will make it worse for you, not better. But at the same time it will reduce our income, but without any obvious reason for it. We will not even consider ransoming, if this change comes into effect. So more ships die and again our income is reduced.
Even if you are not renting, pets or in a large Alliance in null, it's still safer. One could even argue it's safer that highsec. Because at least in null, you know who your enemy is in local.
Gates guns atm are a pain we deal with. We can't even benefit from drones, as they get popped way too quick. But most fights are at gates. This change will simply nerf and not improve anything.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Alara IonStorm
2888
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 13:22:00 -
[256] - Quote
betoli wrote: I'd hope I wasn't advocating nerfing anyones play style. ;-) My main cristicism of EVE over the years is that the risk gradient from HS to LS (and from 0.4 to 0.0) is too steep. That leads people into becoming carebears because it is a SANE decision that the risk of lowsec is not worth it. I wonder if the change as proposed only being applied to 0.4 and 0.3 in combination with a slight reward bump, and a major reward bump in 0.1 0.2 would be better received?
I know that argument for created carebears and it is true to a degree. The solution is information, not that the space is dangerous but that it is for group players. As for the steep drop I agree which is why I said this in another thread.
Quote:I would just prefer it if they made 0.4 to High Sec Gates WTFBBQ Guns and lowered them in generous increments so the farther down in Sec you get the less dangerous they are. Then actively display the Sec where the gate you are jumping through to leads on the overview so you know what you are getting into.
Perhaps increase the number of 0.3 - 0.2 systems as well. The truth of the preposed system is that it doesn't defend Newbies since a neutral Ceptor or Sebo Ship can grab tackle and a gang at a pre-aligned safe can dive in and gank them real quick. With the ramp up it isn't much a danger at all to kill a single player.
betoli wrote: Gatecamping itself is a pisspoor mechanic for creating conflict, we shouldn't defend the right to gatecamp, we should be creating better ways for players to engage.
Yes it is to a degree but it is the main one and simply killing it in one area does not solve the problem and just rips a chunk out of a unique PvP area. If you look at each area the styles of PvP are very different. I don't fight the same way Sec to Sec because I know people role different tactics.
If they want to kill Gate camping fine but it should come with a ready made replacement. |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 13:25:00 -
[257] - Quote
Mag's wrote:betoli wrote:I'm not sure that the gate gun tweak is the perfect solution to this, however the sense of entitlement thats being demonstrated in wanting to be able to sit on the public transport network owned by a major faction and kill passers by is unbelievable - especially when there are areas that are not controlled by the factions. So where exactly are we meant to catch people? You talk of sense of entitlement, but we live in low and that is how we make our living. This will not increase traffic or get more living there or increase so called real PvP. It will make it worse for you, not better. But at the same time it will reduce our income, but without any obvious reason for it.
Personally I think it will increase population. But as you say not for "real" PVP, unless something else is added as a compensation. The game could do with a non-bubble non-sov zone.
|
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 13:27:00 -
[258] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: If they want to kill Gate camping fine but it should come with a ready made replacement.
Get on it CCP!
|
Scion Lex
Rogue Bastards.
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 13:37:00 -
[259] - Quote
yep cause this is easier than putting out an update, official guide on pvp that you would have to maintain CCP. Yep, get on it. They will all die regardless. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9050
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 13:43:00 -
[260] - Quote
It all come down to choice tbh.
So my choice would be to boost low, not nerf it.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
|
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 13:49:00 -
[261] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:betoli wrote: ETA: the ideal effect is that more carebears venture into ls, and more ls pirates venture into null overall migrating everyone into riskier space.
What makes you think Carebears should ever enter Lo-Sec at all. PvE'ers yes absolutely and they do enter Lo-Sec. If you spend time in Lo-Sec you will notice 3 things right right off the bat. 1. Most of the people in Local are not Pirates. 2. Most of the people in Lo-Sec won't attack you, they would rather go about their business. 3. Almost all non Pirates who go to on a regular basis or live in Low-Sec have assets there at their disposal. They have friends on call. Frequently traveled systems and well used stations. They have people with Carriers to stay mobile. They drop into an area of their choosing and setup stakes. If an enemy comes more often then not they will pull back and the pirates will move on. If they start sticking around they will knock them back or pull up stakes and move to a new system. Solo PvE'ers and Explorers on the other hand are another breed you see often using backwater routes and specialized ships. They don't mind taking a lose or two because they are good enough to escape or slip through 99% of the time. Low-Sec right now is group space. Full of PvE'ers, Pirates, Weekend PvP'ers from Hi and Null, general corporations, Anti Pirates, Solo Explorers and FW. Why you think Carebears who by nature do not form up, share intel, are 100% risk adverse and complain everytime they lose a ship belong in PvP capable space is beyond me. EVE's so called Carebear population is lower then the forums make it out to be. The rewards of Lo-Sec are too low for the effort currently. To many small corps would rather rent space in Null then set up stakes in Lo. In essence Lo-Sec is a place majorly for small Corporations who set themselves up not Carebears. If CCP wants to boost Lo-Sec that is who they should be catering too. The irony of this is the mechanics are setup to neither help Lo-Sec residents and built with more then enough loop holes to allow for camping solely of solo carebears. This accomplishes no goal other then making the space less fun for PvP'ers and no PvP'ers does not just mean Pirates. More then not you are likely to see a High Sec Gang looking for Pirates to kill as well. There is a Lo-Sec community that enjoys the space. Why nerf their fun?
That's pretty dead on other than the nerfing fun part. Any changes made that cause me to pay attention to security status will do exactly that...and I'll get it to +5 on a regular basis to go reap a whirlwind in high sec. Suicide ganks not meant to be profitable? They must mean suicide ganks (on mining barges).
If the genius that opened this can of worms is still reading move all static plexes that aren't related to stories or whatever in high sec to low sec and spread them out. If I have to explain to you why this would continue to achieve what you guys are trying to do I'd want to be paid so you'd actually value it. FW changes seem like a good step to an outsider like me so why start taking steps backwards into "more safe"? You guys were applauded for buffing something that makes you LESS SAFE!
|
EliteStealth
B.A.S.E. Consortium Fusion.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 14:54:00 -
[262] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:EliteStealth wrote:SIGNED.....WITH AN EMPHASIS ON THAT
Also if Eve is a sandbox why is ccp trying to take away from that mechanic??? Honestly if people like low sec and aren't complaining then wy change it? Furthermore the game isn't about making it easier its about willpower, strength, and determination. The best quote from EVEONLINE I have ever heard is Wow gives you a cookie for each of your accomplishments...EVEONLINE takes your cookie eats it in front of you and laughs at you for brining one in the first place... I think the main problem is that Lo-sec is a ghost town and people are complaining about it, just not the pirates who live there. As to the cookie this is stealing part of a pirates cookie and giving it to someone else. To be honest given the population levels of Lo-sec, you should all be proud. Just about everyone in lo-sec must have come on to these forums by now to complain about this change. Well at least we have a forum to point to if lo-sec dwellers ever complain that Lo-sec is so dead. See look what happened last time they thought about changing Lo-sec https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=139926
Wow spoken from a guy who does trading..did you get shot down in low sec and feel cheated by it? I dont know man when it happened to me the first time I complained about it but its part of the game and it should be left alone....As for changes to low sec those were ok additions I guess but adding a pirate detection system is just criminal. If im reading this right it basically says if you are suspected of being a criminal the guns will auto fire on you....wtf simply put if you have negative status which most pirates do you cant be around gates not in haulers frigs or anything else...So what's the next course of action for people with bad sec? Belt rat to go back to hi sec or go to blob warfare of null? I for one will unsubscribe my toons if this change takes place...and I won't be the last either....Oh by the way isn't CCP all about making money not losing it? Just to let you know you will be losing it if you adopt this radical change... |
1BoroBoy1
Ministry of Destruction SCUM.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 15:47:00 -
[263] - Quote
Stick the game up yer arse if this happens. RIP Eve. Goons own null, carebears own everything else now=pirates dead |
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 18:48:00 -
[264] - Quote
1BoroBoy1 wrote:Stick the game up yer arse if this happens. RIP Eve. Goons own null, carebears own everything else now=pirates dead
I still stand by my pledge. If I can find some of my friends who were in his year I will almost certainly be able to get his school photo. You will not believe how a man of such small stature could sport so much acne. |
Cerra Nidhugger
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:44:00 -
[265] - Quote
/signed |
Granadix
TunDraGon
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:47:00 -
[266] - Quote
/signed |
Endosis
TunDraGon
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:48:00 -
[267] - Quote
/Signed |
Mistreak
Pirates For Hire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:53:00 -
[268] - Quote
I can only imagine what pirates will do to jita if this goes through...
/Signed.
aside, if they want to make the sentrys stronger then allow the use of bubbles and bombs. I'd rather they left well enough alone. |
Rip Jaws
Vertigo. SCUM.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:57:00 -
[269] - Quote
Signed! |
Bassquaeler
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:59:00 -
[270] - Quote
/Signed |
|
n8aszala 6elshzo
INCARNATION.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 20:09:00 -
[271] - Quote
/sign
Time to take over nullsec entrances me thinks. I think i'll leave an alt in high sec to continously destroy and gank anyone and anything without remorse too.
Enough is enough. |
Gilgamesh1980
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 20:24:00 -
[272] - Quote
Dear Mr Greyscale,
thank you very much for sharing your thoughts, however I have to respectfully decline them
Kind Regards
The Pirates of Losec
P.S. please finaly make Pirate FW or some REAL Losec stuff and we will stop hiding your left shoe |
Ravan Hekki
Blue-Fire
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 21:01:00 -
[273] - Quote
/signed
Ok as a non-pirate, life without lowsec would be leave us with two bits of very safe space :P I think lowsec should be less like null sec light and more like a scary no mans land between null and high.
Hell it should positivly encourage piracy, cause lets face it null is sewn up and nearly as secure as high.
High sec is a choice and there should be high sec based corps. If they wern't there you would have dead space where realisticly the most people would be. Carebearing should be a valid career choice or pirates have no one to hunt. Can you imagine an eve where everyone is in a null sec corp? The future is a sea of blue moon miners ;)
Null is very much like city state italy. Lost of people politicaly allied, but not fighting. Its like empire, but with private security. I supose if HS is like a the current western world, Null is like a corperate run dystopia. There is war, but its only to keep people behaving and the money roling in. Too much is invested by too many people for it to really become the thunderdome people say it is.
WH space is home to space vikings. They shoot each other post GF and only come out to raid people then go home. Very close knit and very likly to discover america, get drunk, steal stuff and forget where it was. It is also home to the same 'elite' pvp found everywhere in eve (ie loads of people mugging one poor fella and then saying how great they are at PVP ) however at least you dont have people in local.
Low sec is the place where the lawless people who want to slip through the gaps should be. Pirates, the poeple wanting to profit from the empire wars. I would suggest that if anything there should be a mechanic for pirates to shut down gate turrets, bribe techs or hack them.
So don't kill off pirates.... save this dying breed...oh and pay your ransoms. There are pirate children going without food becasue of you. |
John Kony
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 21:04:00 -
[274] - Quote
Ravan Hekki wrote:
So don't kill off pirates.... save this dying breed...oh and pay your ransoms. There are pirate children going without food becasue of you.
Suffer :)
|
Dograzor
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 21:28:00 -
[275] - Quote
/signed.
I wrote a full reply in the other thread about this topic.
I do want to mention the core part of my post:
I am an outlaw at heart. I love lowsec. I love being able to roam around in dangerous lowsec systems, not caring about politics, CTA's and major tech wars. I love killing targets of opportunity and picking my own fights. I just love being an outlaw, as in the definition of outlaw itself:
Quote:"Out-+law - A person who refuses to be governed by the established rules or practices of any group; rebel; nonconformist:"
This is a playstyle that Eve Online is able to give me, and I will not give it up. I do feel that this upcoming change in its current form wil challenge my playstyle.
I will not give up being an outlaw because of this change, but I do feel that this upcoming change reflects the long term philosophy that CCP is taking on lowsec. I have a feeling that lowsec will be changed into a place appealing to new or law abiding citizens, while ignoring its outlaw denizens that have lived here for years.
CCP, I feel that lowsec is suppposed to be a place where the criminals, outlaws and the scum of Eve can call their home. Close to highsec for targets, smuggling, ganks, camps, general clusterfuck roams & area's (amamake, old man star), and far enough from null not to be reminded of sov grinds, tech wars & politics. If you want to improve highsec, I am sure that there are plenty of idea's within the community that can be put foreward. TBH, I think that an lowsec revamp is long overdue, since risk/reward (esp reward) is very unbalanced.
Dear CCP, don't get me wrong. I don't mean to criticize your idea's, but I do feel that this idea, is a mistake. Lowsec needs waay more love then just a simple gategun tweak... And please, dedicate resources to do so. I love lowsec, and I do know that being forced to go null for any kind of decent pvp.. Will cause me to lose interest in this game. I'm an outlaw at heart, and I am planning to stay so.
Thanks
|
Deathhwish
Soul Takers
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 21:49:00 -
[276] - Quote
/signed
way to kill piracy, way to kill lowsec more, how about some actual ideas that improve the situation? |
Tankos Aphelion
Ministry of Destruction SCUM.
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 22:00:00 -
[277] - Quote
Signed. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
103
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 22:20:00 -
[278] - Quote
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:With respect to your OP, I'll sign if you can show that your interpretation of "suspect" is the one actually intended for a change in game mechanics purposes. As funny as I find your day being ruined, I don't find funny changes to mechanics that have no clear purpose or reason behind them, or those changes which it seems obvious to me will not have the effect intended. This change, if your interpretation of "suspect" is indeed more than just arm flapping panic, would fall in the later category.
As to changes to get people into low, or at least more passing through, the answer is obvious. You don't see it because you assume everyone in null actually flies from null to high and back again. It's like you don't even realize there is another way to make that trip. You seem as blind to it as all the high sec peeps that whine about bottlenecks to null, not realizing every null area has a back door wide open for anyone, unguarded, to fly straight through.
Jeebuz, don't you people look at things like maps and skillbooks? Never mind, I already know the answer.
You clearly failed to read a later post in which I described the two primary methods of travel in Eve. As far as the interpretation of "suspect" that has yet to be defined in black and white by any CCP Dev since it is in the "tweaking" and "speculation" phase. So for now we'll assume the worst possible scenario until Dev's step up and flatly put something in their next minutes or something more concrete.
Also I find it rather ironic you blame JD ships for the "reason" to bypass Low Sec. In actuality JD (jump drive) ships have created more flexibility and ease of travel throughout New Eden. So you'd assume that with less of a burden more people would set up shop.
That clearly is not the case and JD ships are not the problem. BTW my day wouldn't be ruined. It would just turn into "Hurry! shoot the fish in the barrel before we're shot ourselves!" Online. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
103
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 22:27:00 -
[279] - Quote
1BoroBoy1 wrote:Stick the game up yer arse if this happens. RIP Eve. Goons own null, carebears own everything else now=pirates dead
Perhaps it would be amusing to take on our "owners?" I for one would grin as Null Sec burned. Chaos should rein in Eve. Not a false sense of security you can buy or sell to the weak. Security in numbers is false security.
After all some men just want to see the world burn....
Edit: Oh! and this whole little "greed is good" excuse that the CSM and Devs vomited up to pacify the stupid in Eve? It's a lie (and this is coming from a Pirate)
Greed is not good when only a handful in Eve hold the most wealth, the power, the voice and control to how this universe is shaped. I for one would offline every POS, self destruct every super capital, every dreadnought, from the major powers that keep a vice grip on the freedom in Eve and it's markets.
Burn Baby. Burn. Give me my Eve back |
Tysinger
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 00:17:00 -
[280] - Quote
BURN JITA AGAIN !!! |
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1240
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 00:35:00 -
[281] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:1BoroBoy1 wrote:Stick the game up yer arse if this happens. RIP Eve. Goons own null, carebears own everything else now=pirates dead Perhaps it would be amusing to take on our "owners?" They need to buff CONCORD before we make lowsec burn.
SO about the carebears owning lowsec, uh ... well ... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
293
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 00:41:00 -
[282] - Quote
Tysinger wrote:BURN JITA AGAIN !!!
We're pirates, we haven't seen jita in years.
Burn Tama. |
Tysinger
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 00:46:00 -
[283] - Quote
Then ******* burn everything!!! |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:06:00 -
[284] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tara Read wrote:1BoroBoy1 wrote:Stick the game up yer arse if this happens. RIP Eve. Goons own null, carebears own everything else now=pirates dead Perhaps it would be amusing to take on our "owners?" They need to buff CONCORD before we make lowsec burn. SO about the carebears owning lowsec, uh ... well ...
Well I was talking about burning Null Sec. Low Sec already burns |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2736
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:11:00 -
[285] - Quote
/signed Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:19:00 -
[286] - Quote
EliteStealth wrote:SIGNED.....WITH AN EMPHASIS ON THAT
Also if Eve is a sandbox why is ccp trying to take away from that mechanic??? Honestly if people like low sec and aren't complaining then wy change it? Furthermore the game isn't about making it easier its about willpower, strength, and determination. The best quote from EVEONLINE I have ever heard is Wow gives you a cookie for each of your accomplishments...EVEONLINE takes your cookie eats it in front of you and laughs at you for brining one in the first place...
Because Eve is not the sandbox that you think it is, or the one everyone tells you that it is. It is player driven, true. But that is still dependent on the rules that are posted. If anything, more rules are posted with each year, and people rage everytime it happens. This time is no different.
I'm really starting to believe that CCP is challenging its players to rise to a new standard of excellence with the most recent changes. If so, i applaud that. Complacency is the death knell to all things. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Venezul
Vertigo. SCUM.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:19:00 -
[287] - Quote
Signed |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:40:00 -
[288] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:EliteStealth wrote:SIGNED.....WITH AN EMPHASIS ON THAT
Also if Eve is a sandbox why is ccp trying to take away from that mechanic??? Honestly if people like low sec and aren't complaining then wy change it? Furthermore the game isn't about making it easier its about willpower, strength, and determination. The best quote from EVEONLINE I have ever heard is Wow gives you a cookie for each of your accomplishments...EVEONLINE takes your cookie eats it in front of you and laughs at you for brining one in the first place... Because Eve is not the sandbox that you think it is, or the one everyone tells you that it is. It is player driven, true. But that is still dependent on the rules that are posted. If anything, more rules are posted with each year, and people rage everytime it happens. This time is no different. I'm really starting to believe that CCP is challenging its players to rise to a new standard of excellence with the most recent changes. If so, i applaud that. Complacency is the death knell to all things.
How is pandering to those who make CCP bend their ear to make them more powerful "excellence"? I sure as **** didn't "vote" for half of the puppets on the CSM and my views certainly are not represented.
Eve has always in my view been about infinite space. Vast reaches of unexplored systems where a player can be free. A sandbox in it's purist form is player freedom. Being a Pirate is a parallel to see such means justified. Low Sec has no rules (aside from GCC etc) which is a game mechanic.
It has no CONCORD or some multi faced Alliance you need to grovel and kiss the ground upon which they walk to be in. It is clear to me that Eve has taken a drastic turn in recent years as assets and power have become more attainable to those whom years ago wouldn't have them.
And once again we see the big headlines be the big alliance fighting for what? "Sov". This magical term in which their pilots will gleefully proclaim makes them superior. As if Mittens will sign your character name under the system itself and you "own" it.
Wrong. These people are nothing but cogs in an ever turning machine that keeps grinding away piece by piece at the core elements of what used to make Eve great. And how do I come by this opinion?
When we engaged Nulli Secunda about a month ago they brought in roughly 80 pilots to our 12. They chased us around the system as we attempted to kite them using Loki boosts and such to stay away from their fast tackle while being able to pick off slower targets.
Eventually in their "tactical genius" they covered all gates but one. The one in which we made our escape. Yet for all their failings and smack one line proved to me how cheap CCP has turned this games combat and the meaning of fights.
"At lease we have sov." So it matters not your fleet composition, or your individual contribution as a pilot but rather that you have a little text that reads "This conglomerate owns this" that spurs you on....
Last time I checked I thought Eve was all about individuality and purpose. Clearly that isn't the case because these types of proposed changes and way they keep wrecking the small areas in which true combat does take place is evidence enough. |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 05:11:00 -
[289] - Quote
Homo Jesus wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote: Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization.
Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps.
THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat
Here is an example of a guy that thinks a sentry change would magically create something that already exists. After this change he still wouldn't go near low sec and I'll prove it to you. I have a small low sec pocket under decent control with a level 4 agent, lucrative belts for mining and very nice exploration sites. I can provide you with an intel channel, light blue status, and a custom scarebear guide to help insure your safety. The cost is 100mil a month per character. I'll wait for all the mails to pour in from interested carebears.... The minute I tell them they need to watch local, use d-scan and report intel they think I'm ripping them off because we can never make it a 100% brainless activity like high sec and they will need to be at the keyboard 100% when in space. They don't understand they are just paying for "protection"....FROM US not every single person that enters local. Wanna pay for that? No? Why? Ransoms? How many have you paid? 9 1/2 times out of 10 when you offer a ransom you're promptly told to F*UCK OFF. While I can understand this mindset we're not talking about a ransom mechanic being added to escrow money that only gets released when the point drops.
And here is an example of someone who needs some reading comprehension. You're proving my point in that there is a prevalent sense of entitlement to CCP to perpetuate a welfare nation for Losec and PvP. Say what you want about Goons and the rest of the nulsec entities, at least they make their game. They don't sit around begging CCP for anything, they go out and make it happen. This is something losec can do as well, and yet they don't. They blame PvEers, nulseccers, CCP, everyone but themselves. You (and this time I am being specific) obviously didn't read what I wrote, most likely just skimmed over it and then went on your usual tirade.
What I proposed does not exist, by the very fact that the rallying cry is losec is empty. If something like this existed in the manner that I spoke of, I can guarantee you that losec would probably be far more interesting than it has ever been. What I spoke of was in all intents and purposes a protection service. The losec corp makes the money in exchange for keeping their charges safe from harm. That means if a rival corp comes into a system that you have figuratively claimed, it's your responsibility to protecty it as well. Those who don't pay don't get to play in your system or systems. You scan them down and destroy them if you cannot take them out initially.
All of this requires work, yes. It will not always just fall into your lap like sitting around on a gate once did. But the rewards will be far more lucrative in the long run, and when something like this became more widespread, would create a more vibrant losec. I'm talking urban turf war type stuff here, and before you say that losec isn't nulsec, let me say that the bloods, crips, Hell's Angels et al do not officially own their turfs, it still belongs to the cities they are in. This is no different. If you stopped being snarky and facetious, you might realize this.
As for ransoms, never paid one for two reasons. One, only had one offered to me, which wasn't worth the ship I was flying in (don't fly what you can't afford to lose), and two, after spending time in losec, I learned how to get around without getting into a bad situation. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
snake pies
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 05:21:00 -
[290] - Quote
If gate camping was the only "traffic" in low-sec, GOOD RIDDANCE
I predict more kind of the good traffic in low-sec, more roaming gangs. |
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 05:48:00 -
[291] - Quote
snake pies wrote:If gate camping was the only "traffic" in low-sec, GOOD RIDDANCE I predict more kind of the good traffic in low-sec, more roaming gangs.
Coming from a TEST member I'd expect nothing less out of your post... |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 05:50:00 -
[292] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote: Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization.
Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps.
THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat
Here is an example of a guy that thinks a sentry change would magically create something that already exists. After this change he still wouldn't go near low sec and I'll prove it to you. I have a small low sec pocket under decent control with a level 4 agent, lucrative belts for mining and very nice exploration sites. I can provide you with an intel channel, light blue status, and a custom scarebear guide to help insure your safety. The cost is 100mil a month per character. I'll wait for all the mails to pour in from interested carebears.... The minute I tell them they need to watch local, use d-scan and report intel they think I'm ripping them off because we can never make it a 100% brainless activity like high sec and they will need to be at the keyboard 100% when in space. They don't understand they are just paying for "protection"....FROM US not every single person that enters local. Wanna pay for that? No? Why? Ransoms? How many have you paid? 9 1/2 times out of 10 when you offer a ransom you're promptly told to F*UCK OFF. While I can understand this mindset we're not talking about a ransom mechanic being added to escrow money that only gets released when the point drops. And here is an example of someone who needs some reading comprehension. You're proving my point in that there is a prevalent sense of entitlement to CCP to perpetuate a welfare nation for Losec and PvP. Say what you want about Goons and the rest of the nulsec entities, at least they make their game. They don't sit around begging CCP for anything, they go out and make it happen.
No they just rig the CSM and keep CCP devs in their pocket for their advantage.... The gutting of small gang pvp should prove this.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1240
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 06:00:00 -
[293] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:And here is an example of someone who needs some reading comprehension. You're proving my point in that there is a prevalent sense of entitlement to CCP to perpetuate a welfare nation for Losec and PvP. Say what you want about Goons and the rest of the nulsec entities, at least they make their game. They don't sit around begging CCP for anything, they go out and make it happen. No they just rig the CSM and keep CCP devs in their pocket for their advantage.... The gutting of small gang pvp should prove this. Blobbing is ~the~ new elite pvp. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2736
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 06:11:00 -
[294] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: How is pandering to those who make CCP bend their ear to make them more powerful "excellence"? I sure as **** didn't "vote" for half of the puppets on the CSM and my views certainly are not represented.
And what viewpoint of yours are you afraid is not being represented? Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2736
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 06:13:00 -
[295] - Quote
snake pies wrote:If gate camping was the only "traffic" in low-sec, GOOD RIDDANCE I predict more kind of the good traffic in low-sec, more roaming gangs.
This change kills roaming gangs as much as static gatecamps. MANY average engagements can last several minutes, these changes would kill the interest of anyone engaging on a fight on a gate at all. Where do you expect all this PvP to occur? Have you seen an abundance of ships hanging out in low sec asteroid belts or planetside? Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Arcos Vandymion
Rare Exports Pirate Coalition
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 06:39:00 -
[296] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Finally! Trade can finally come to lowsec. Players can enter in ship sizes larger than frigates. EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped. Corporations now have a legitimate reason to live in lowsec. Miners and explorers now have an acceptable margin of risk. The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance. PI can really take off now. Corporations are more inclined to moon mine lesser materials. There will be a massive influx of players for pirates to shoot at.
Finally! The most neglected aspect of this game is finally starting to receive love. You bitter vets who hate change of any kind, you're welcome to cancel all five million of your accounts. The game will be changing and your inability/unwillingness to adapt is your own fault. Good riddance.
Haha, yeah - someone is still gonna slowboat to Jita. Or it'll just be produced in low *looks at all the empty manufacturing slots* Doing fine in anything between capsules and BCs here. You haven't been to a lot of different low-sec entrances have you? So far I've been camped once - granted I'm not that old of a player but I've lost enough ships due to ridiculous reasons (yeah you can bring up my BC killboard I don't mind - if that's what you ppl need to do to harden your "arguments"...) With x as margin of risk lim x = 0 I don't think that's acceptable. It's ridiculous. The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance - please elaborate how this influences highsec missionrunners. PI can take of now - because POCOs don't indicate PI. Well they have to due to the uneven spread of stuff like Tech. That may be - then they'll get killed in system and just run from gate to gate or stay where they are now.
Gatecamps? Missionrunners! - and it ain't an aspect - if you say "lowsec's an aspect" this statement shows what's wrong. it shouldn't be an aspect but a veritable venue of EVE life. An aspect for me is "L4s are an aspect of Highsec", "Incursions are an aspect of highsec" - they are a tiny bit of what you can do and not the whole. Though if you think that gatecamps are the only occupation to lowsec maybe you should just stay where you are necause you don't seem to eager to go out and do other stuff. No bittervet here (see above). Wait what? Multiple accounts? What's that? I've heard of crazy ppl who supposedly have more then 1 char on their account. How does that work? Because adapting to loosing money faster then getting it is easypeasy *adapts to gaining more money due to barge changes at 0 risks in highsec* Point clear or do I need to write a dissertation on that?
P.S.: "You get the video file, and tell us if these guys are smoking crack." P39 CSM-Summit Minutes Yeah - so we wait for a video of a gatecamp that horribly fails - then the CSM says NAY (which they, for some reason didn't when this was proposed). CCP still gonna put it, then note how that work may have "broken" a system that wasn't running to smoothly and THEN they'll still not think about all the wasted manhours. *looks at UI, looks back up, looks at WiS, looks back up* (OKOK, UI will be fine once they apply the fixes talked about in the minutes but we'll see them when? Winter 2013?). How about changing to a 1 expansion per year schedule, cutting away half of the "planning and release hassle" and giving you the time to do it right in the first go.
P.P.S.: Reminds me of the complaints when the Tier3 BCs were released (we want a missile platform wah wah wah for our wah Naga). Maybe we should get some of those Nagas ignore tank, go for 250km optimal put a Proteus' as tackle and shoot stuff. Oh wait snipers don't work that good due to probing... *looks back up* Hey another thing that needs to be fixed before you should tackle sentries (makes 3 including UI and WiS (which comes with the-game-none-shall-talk-about I guess (WoD))).
TL;DR version: Change is at best and "Click here to unsubscribe" at worst. |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:30:00 -
[297] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:snake pies wrote:If gate camping was the only "traffic" in low-sec, GOOD RIDDANCE I predict more kind of the good traffic in low-sec, more roaming gangs. This change kills roaming gangs as much as static gatecamps. MANY average engagements can last several minutes, these changes would kill the interest of anyone engaging on a fight on a gate at all. Where do you expect all this PvP to occur? Have you seen an abundance of ships hanging out in low sec asteroid belts or planetside?
Oh dear me. Are we back to the point that gates themselves are the problem once again? Who would have guessed?
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2737
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:42:00 -
[298] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote: Oh dear me. Are we back to the point that gates themselves are the problem once again? Who would have guessed?
Anyone that lives and PvP's in low sec. Remember - you're talking to a Faction Warfare pilot. One of the major appeals to Faction Warfare is the lack of gate fire interfering with our PvP. I don't have a ton of sympathy with those that feel that gate camps ruin their ability to navigate low sec, sentry fire does nothing to protect me in my travels, hauling, or PvP roams. I'd rather we teach pilots the skills they need to survive out here than simply make low sec safer because people haven't figured out how to play the game.
The bottom line is, low sec is still fight club. People come out here to slug the crap out of each other. Sure, there's mining, and anomalies, but these activities are secondary to Piracy and FW as the primary appeal. If you want to revitalize low sec, you support and promote the PvP culture, plain and simple. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:46:00 -
[299] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Tara Read wrote: How is pandering to those who make CCP bend their ear to make them more powerful "excellence"? I sure as **** didn't "vote" for half of the puppets on the CSM and my views certainly are not represented.
And what viewpoint of yours are you afraid is not being represented?
Well certainly nothing that encourages small gang pvp as this thread even being created points out. Show me the last time CCP made strives to encourage smaller engagements instead of only going with the status quo the big alliances wanted. Instead their trying to move even more players into Null Sec as these proposed gate changes would probably accomplish.
See back when Eve was still in it's infancy you had a much lower population than what it is today. B0B and Goons were the talk of the day and still low sec maintained actually quite a decent population with players having a drive to be there.
Instead that drive or interest has all shifted to Null with the profit to be made being leaps and bounds compared to the trickle of income low sec now provides. Remember kids "greed is good" right?
That's what we were spoon fed and everyone bought it. Instead you now have the top Null Sec alliances in everything from market control to dev influence. In simplistic terms the game is being steered into only what suits "their" goals and means.
See I'm sure myself and others could give two ***** less about what goes down in 0.0 except the influence of the players from said regions is far reaching to now with these proposed changes that seek to strangle the last gasp from low sec.
My views are simple. Get rid of super caps altogether. Fielding dozens of these monsters now is game breaking to the point where individual pilots are simply specks in an overall gameplay experience and thus cheapens it.
Remove any and all big alliance representatives from CSM to prove to me you don't influence how this game will be played by others.
Focus resources into other elements of the game that are neglected and have long been ignored. Reinvigorate dying elements of game play to further enrich and enhance a players experience in Eve.
Certainly these are just my views. But seeing as I've sat and watched Eve morph into this twisted mass of elitism masked by "equal representation" my biggest fear is the game I have come to know and love will altogether vanish in a myriad of inflation, control, manipulation, and stagnation. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
424
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:47:00 -
[300] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:snake pies wrote:If gate camping was the only "traffic" in low-sec, GOOD RIDDANCE I predict more kind of the good traffic in low-sec, more roaming gangs. This change kills roaming gangs as much as static gatecamps. MANY average engagements can last several minutes, these changes would kill the interest of anyone engaging on a fight on a gate at all. Where do you expect all this PvP to occur? Have you seen an abundance of ships hanging out in low sec asteroid belts or planetside? Oh dear me. Are we back to the point that gates themselves are the problem once again? Who would have guessed? Yeah because the way things are people so want to go to lo-sec. I was in there an hour ago traveling and actually saw 4 people over a section of 10 systems(ofc I avoided the usual camped systems).
They were all on local no visual contact. Hell Lo-sec is so crowded, I wonder why CCP want to make it friendlier.
Personally as its still part of Empire but all they have is gate and station guns they should work just like hi-sec. Otherwise why are they there, its kind of stupid.
So gang roam for pvp or go to Null or wormholes where it makes sense. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:48:00 -
[301] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tara Read wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:And here is an example of someone who needs some reading comprehension. You're proving my point in that there is a prevalent sense of entitlement to CCP to perpetuate a welfare nation for Losec and PvP. Say what you want about Goons and the rest of the nulsec entities, at least they make their game. They don't sit around begging CCP for anything, they go out and make it happen. No they just rig the CSM and keep CCP devs in their pocket for their advantage.... The gutting of small gang pvp should prove this. Blobbing is ~the~ new elite pvp.
Clearly. Because having 200 saps at your back proves individual mettle.
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Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:52:00 -
[302] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote: Oh dear me. Are we back to the point that gates themselves are the problem once again? Who would have guessed?
Anyone that lives and PvP's in low sec. Remember - you're talking to a Faction Warfare pilot. One of the major appeals to Faction Warfare is the lack of gate fire interfering with our PvP. I don't have a ton of sympathy with those that feel that gate camps ruin their ability to navigate low sec, sentry fire does nothing to protect me in my travels, hauling, or PvP roams. I'd rather we teach pilots the skills they need to survive out here than simply make low sec safer because people haven't figured out how to play the game. The bottom line is, low sec is still fight club. People come out here to slug the crap out of each other. Sure, there's mining, and anomalies, but these activities are secondary to Piracy and FW as the primary appeal. If you want to revitalize low sec, you support and promote the PvP culture, plain and simple.
And when has a CSM brought up your last sentence? Last major change in Eve I saw was walking in a station and being able to buy a new pair of boots. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:54:00 -
[303] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:snake pies wrote:If gate camping was the only "traffic" in low-sec, GOOD RIDDANCE I predict more kind of the good traffic in low-sec, more roaming gangs. This change kills roaming gangs as much as static gatecamps. MANY average engagements can last several minutes, these changes would kill the interest of anyone engaging on a fight on a gate at all. Where do you expect all this PvP to occur? Have you seen an abundance of ships hanging out in low sec asteroid belts or planetside? Oh dear me. Are we back to the point that gates themselves are the problem once again? Who would have guessed?
We are when said gates can kill a Triage Carrier in under 5 minutes. Don't you read or is your ability to comprehend fifteen pages of the reiterated points as to why we are arguing this in the first place tiresome? |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:58:00 -
[304] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote: Oh dear me. Are we back to the point that gates themselves are the problem once again? Who would have guessed?
Anyone that lives and PvP's in low sec. Remember - you're talking to a Faction Warfare pilot. One of the major appeals to Faction Warfare is the lack of gate fire interfering with our PvP. I don't have a ton of sympathy with those that feel that gate camps ruin their ability to navigate low sec, sentry fire does nothing to protect me in my travels, hauling, or PvP roams. I'd rather we teach pilots the skills they need to survive out here than simply make low sec safer because people haven't figured out how to play the game. The bottom line is, low sec is still fight club. People come out here to slug the crap out of each other. Sure, there's mining, and anomalies, but these activities are secondary to Piracy and FW as the primary appeal. If you want to revitalize low sec, you support and promote the PvP culture, plain and simple.
Well, I am anything but against revitalizing low/null-sec and I am very much against changes that would reduce action and freedom.
Thing is though that EVE has a rather big issue (if I am to include a bigger part of the package), gates, logistics, travel method and ship detection which IMO limits PvP.
I can understand from a technical point of view why things were made the way they are, but at the same time I think that the technological aspects are available today which could allow EVE to move on to something much better. The current system which effectively translates to PvP more or less only being possible at specific points (gates and stations mainly) is one of the core issues as to why gate camping is meh. And not just gate camping/piracy or that kind of pvp. Both small gang roaming and large blob roaming tactics which by themselves are fully valid could be that much better if the old engine was ripped out and replaced with something better.
I am still fascinated by the "submarine" system for instance that was proposed (would have to dig up that thread again) a while ago as it contained so many excellent solutions to many of the problems EVE has today. With something like that in place, there would be little reason to not change the gate system/the way travelling works in order to eliminate the forced point specific pvp. |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 09:00:00 -
[305] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:snake pies wrote:If gate camping was the only "traffic" in low-sec, GOOD RIDDANCE I predict more kind of the good traffic in low-sec, more roaming gangs. This change kills roaming gangs as much as static gatecamps. MANY average engagements can last several minutes, these changes would kill the interest of anyone engaging on a fight on a gate at all. Where do you expect all this PvP to occur? Have you seen an abundance of ships hanging out in low sec asteroid belts or planetside? Oh dear me. Are we back to the point that gates themselves are the problem once again? Who would have guessed? We are when said gates can kill a Triage Carrier in under 5 minutes. Don't you read or is your ability to comprehend fifteen pages of the reiterated points as to why we are arguing this in the first place tiresome?
In this aspect the gate guns is a rather...crappy idea. I will not disagree there. But you are talking about the gate guns whilst I have been arguing about gates as a whole. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 09:03:00 -
[306] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote: Oh dear me. Are we back to the point that gates themselves are the problem once again? Who would have guessed?
Anyone that lives and PvP's in low sec. Remember - you're talking to a Faction Warfare pilot. One of the major appeals to Faction Warfare is the lack of gate fire interfering with our PvP. I don't have a ton of sympathy with those that feel that gate camps ruin their ability to navigate low sec, sentry fire does nothing to protect me in my travels, hauling, or PvP roams. I'd rather we teach pilots the skills they need to survive out here than simply make low sec safer because people haven't figured out how to play the game. The bottom line is, low sec is still fight club. People come out here to slug the crap out of each other. Sure, there's mining, and anomalies, but these activities are secondary to Piracy and FW as the primary appeal. If you want to revitalize low sec, you support and promote the PvP culture, plain and simple. Well, I am anything but against revitalizing low/null-sec and I am very much against changes that would reduce action and freedom.
Freedom to do what exactly? To move your precious Iteron without ANY risk in said systems? To rat till your hearts content? To be able to mine Veldspar into infinity until the very star your blood shot eyes keep staring at dies out?
YOU are the very reason why CCP has pandered to cheapening this game. Your mentality of "I want a free lunch because I can't think for myself" is incredibly insulting to those who actually think!
Do you not see that by giving you easy street CCP then has to TAKE away freedom from other players just to suit your laziness?
Of course you don't.... |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 09:04:00 -
[307] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Tara Read wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:snake pies wrote:If gate camping was the only "traffic" in low-sec, GOOD RIDDANCE I predict more kind of the good traffic in low-sec, more roaming gangs. This change kills roaming gangs as much as static gatecamps. MANY average engagements can last several minutes, these changes would kill the interest of anyone engaging on a fight on a gate at all. Where do you expect all this PvP to occur? Have you seen an abundance of ships hanging out in low sec asteroid belts or planetside? Oh dear me. Are we back to the point that gates themselves are the problem once again? Who would have guessed? We are when said gates can kill a Triage Carrier in under 5 minutes. Don't you read or is your ability to comprehend fifteen pages of the reiterated points as to why we are arguing this in the first place tiresome? In this aspect the gate guns is a rather...crappy idea. I will not disagree there. But you are talking about the gate guns whilst I have been arguing about gates as a whole.
Buy a goddamned Jump Freighter then. Or strap on one of those nifty little micro jump drives. Gates are fine. You just seem to keep getting blown up on them. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2737
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 09:06:00 -
[308] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: Remove any and all big alliance representatives from CSM to prove to me you don't influence how this game will be played by others.
Focus resources into other elements of the game that are neglected and have long been ignored. Reinvigorate dying elements of game play to further enrich and enhance a players experience in Eve.
Certainly these are just my views. But seeing as I've sat and watched Eve morph into this twisted mass of elitism masked by "equal representation" my biggest fear is the game I have come to know and love will altogether vanish in a myriad of inflation, control, manipulation, and stagnation.
And excellent objectives they are. Who doesn't want to put resources into the game that are neglected and been long ignored? Who doesn't want to reinvigorate dying elements? This has been the entire reason I got involved in the CSM to begin with - I got sick of seeing a fantastic feature like FW wither on the vine and decided enough was enough, time to get to work.
The bottom line is - even WITH null sec alliance representation on the council, they're hardly throwing their weight around to suppress and control the development process. I'd know, because I'm one of the ones sitting in the meetings and reading the internal dialogue with CCP. Take Faction Warfare for instance - the representatives from 0.0 are essentially silent, other than some casual discussion in Icelend they've given me free reign to advise CCP on the feature, because they just trust that I'm the expert.
There have also been other changes that directly nerf the profitablity of null sec - the drone region bounties, and technetium alchemy price controls. If the 0.0 CSM candidates were purely meta-gaming for their own pocketbook, not only would you hear far more outcry from them against these changes, but it would be recorded in the minutes and their selfishness would be on record.
Personally, I no longer subscribe to the "Alliance dominance of the council" conspiracy theories, having now sat on the CSM and observed the proceedings myself. I have no stake in 0.0 affairs, and yet the rest of the CSM has been supportive of my work and never once tried to stifle my voice or censor my feedback.
Of course, you're free to believe whatever you want. All I can do is share my experiences. Whether or not you trust the council as an entity, I hope you at least keep in contact with me and continue the good work rallying and focusing everyone's feedback. You're welcome to get a hold of me any time via email or in-game convo, I'm going to continue to do whatever I can to support the small-gang warfare and low sec PvP communities. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
108
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 09:18:00 -
[309] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Tara Read wrote: Remove any and all big alliance representatives from CSM to prove to me you don't influence how this game will be played by others.
Focus resources into other elements of the game that are neglected and have long been ignored. Reinvigorate dying elements of game play to further enrich and enhance a players experience in Eve.
Certainly these are just my views. But seeing as I've sat and watched Eve morph into this twisted mass of elitism masked by "equal representation" my biggest fear is the game I have come to know and love will altogether vanish in a myriad of inflation, control, manipulation, and stagnation. And excellent objectives they are. Who doesn't want to put resources into the game that are neglected and been long ignored? Who doesn't want to reinvigorate dying elements? This has been the entire reason I got involved in the CSM to begin with - I got sick of seeing a fantastic feature like FW wither on the vine and decided enough was enough, time to get to work. The bottom line is - even WITH null sec alliance representation on the council, they're hardly throwing their weight around to suppress and control the development process. I'd know, because I'm one of the ones sitting in the meetings and reading the internal dialogue with CCP. Take Faction Warfare for instance - the representatives from 0.0 are essentially silent, other than some casual discussion in Icelend they've given me free reign to advise CCP on the feature, because they just trust that I'm the expert. There have also been other changes that directly nerf the profitablity of null sec - the drone region bounties, and technetium alchemy price controls. If the 0.0 CSM candidates were purely meta-gaming for their own pocketbook, not only would you hear far more outcry from them against these changes, but it would be recorded in the minutes and their selfishness would be on record. Personally, I no longer subscribe to the "Alliance dominance of the council" conspiracy theories, having now sat on the CSM and observed the proceedings myself. I have no stake in 0.0 affairs, and yet the rest of the CSM has been supportive of my work and never once tried to stifle my voice or censor my feedback. Of course, you're free to believe whatever you want. All I can do is share my experiences. Whether or not you trust the council as an entity, I hope you at least keep in contact with me and continue the good work rallying and focusing everyone's feedback. You're welcome to get a hold of me any time via email or in-game convo, I'm going to continue to do whatever I can to support the small-gang warfare and low sec PvP communities.
Actions speak louder than words I'm afraid. And CCP Greyscale's actions from a few days ago prove to me otherwise. As far as nerfing drone regions it's simply because combat has altogether stagnated as a whole. The quick summer campaign into Delve should prove this.
Also I must point out that one doesn't lay their cards out on the table when it comes to agenda's. After all this is Eve. being sneaky is a learned skill is it not?
If you truly want to invigorate the game and make it what it used to be CCP will have to realize that they have literally made a monster out of neglecting a long growing problem. How does one cap what one can attain and use?
Remember I stated earlier how those resources that were unattainable only to those who worked their asses off in the early creation of the game is now common place? Hell even pirates have Titans and Capitals simply because we had to adapt to survive like everyone else.
If the player base keeps growing and such ships become more common place what is there to strive for? If wealth is so easily attainable to where billions of isk is just childs play what exactly is the point? The stagnation you see is that players are slowly realizing they have it all.... There's no challenge.
And THAT to me is the biggest threat to Eve. Stagnation. |
RON W
Vertigo. SCUM.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 12:35:00 -
[310] - Quote
/signed |
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Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 13:39:00 -
[311] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote: Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization.
Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps.
THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat
Here is an example of a guy that thinks a sentry change would magically create something that already exists. After this change he still wouldn't go near low sec and I'll prove it to you. I have a small low sec pocket under decent control with a level 4 agent, lucrative belts for mining and very nice exploration sites. I can provide you with an intel channel, light blue status, and a custom scarebear guide to help insure your safety. The cost is 100mil a month per character. I'll wait for all the mails to pour in from interested carebears.... The minute I tell them they need to watch local, use d-scan and report intel they think I'm ripping them off because we can never make it a 100% brainless activity like high sec and they will need to be at the keyboard 100% when in space. They don't understand they are just paying for "protection"....FROM US not every single person that enters local. Wanna pay for that? No? Why? Ransoms? How many have you paid? 9 1/2 times out of 10 when you offer a ransom you're promptly told to F*UCK OFF. While I can understand this mindset we're not talking about a ransom mechanic being added to escrow money that only gets released when the point drops. Blah blah blah What I proposed does not exist, by the very fact that the rallying cry is losec is empty. If something like this existed in the manner that I spoke of, I can guarantee you that losec would probably be far more interesting than it has ever been. What I spoke of was in all intents and purposes a protection service. The losec corp makes the money in exchange for keeping their charges safe from harm. That means if a rival corp comes into a system that you have figuratively claimed, it's your responsibility to protecty it as well. Those who don't pay don't get to play in your system or systems. You scan them down and destroy them if you cannot take them out initially. blah blah blah
I just gave you your rallying cry. I have exactly what you speak of...100mil per character a month. What do you think an intel channel is for? To chat with me?
Please, continue to post nonsense reasons why this ISN'T what you want but be more specific. Would you like us to hold your hand and fleet warp you to a safety net pos when you're afking missions or something because that would cost considerably more. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
90
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 13:48:00 -
[312] - Quote
Greyscale does seem to have lost it. |
Saile Litestrider
Finest Kobold Engineering
48
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:15:00 -
[313] - Quote
The amount of overspeculation, sensationalism and overreaction related to this subject is reaching absurd levels. So many of you seem to be making up numbers and scenarios out of thin air. I don't understand how "damage ramping up" and "killing a carrier in 4.5 minutes" somehow magically equates to sentry guns with jump drives hopping around insta-popping frigates all over New Eden if you don't have a 7.0 or higher security status, which seems to more or less be the common conclusion.
I'd like to invite you to step back, take a deep breath, calm down for a minute, read exactly what Grayscale said, think about what that does and doesn't mean, and then realize that he said pretty much nothing beyond "we would like to buff sentry guns so they're a threat to everyone without making them instadeath". |
Turgesson
Five-0 Suddenly Spaceships.
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:36:00 -
[314] - Quote
Saile Litestrider wrote:The amount of overspeculation, sensationalism and overreaction related to this subject is reaching absurd levels. So many of you seem to be making up numbers and scenarios out of thin air. I don't understand how "damage ramping up" and "killing a carrier in 4.5 minutes" somehow magically equates to sentry guns with jump drives hopping around insta-popping frigates all over New Eden if you don't have a 7.0 or higher security status, which seems to more or less be the common conclusion. I'd like to invite you to step back, take a deep breath, calm down for a minute, read exactly what Grayscale said, think about what that does and doesn't mean, and then realize that he said pretty much nothing beyond "we would like to buff sentry guns so they're a threat to everyone without making them instadeath".
Ummm...sentries NOT insta-popping frigate hulls and being extremely dangerous to most T1 cruiser hulls is a buff to gate camps. There is a reason the small fast locking ships get insta-popped. I read most of this and the reaction is because the dude is talking about messing with something using a triage carrier and interceptors as examples. That shows a basic misunderstanding of gate camps and I'd rather have someone else start the discussion on sentries with something that makes sense at it's inception.
Having the sentries from stations and gates fire on you because of negative security status? Beware of what you wish for on that one. |
Saile Litestrider
Finest Kobold Engineering
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:05:00 -
[315] - Quote
Turgesson wrote:Ummm...sentries NOT insta-popping frigate hulls and being extremely dangerous to most T1 cruiser hulls is a buff to gate camps. There is a reason the small fast locking ships get insta-popped. I read most of this and the reaction is because the dude is talking about messing with something using a triage carrier and interceptors as examples. That shows a basic misunderstanding of gate camps and I'd rather have someone else start the discussion on sentries with something that makes sense at it's inception.
Having the sentries from stations and gates fire on you because of negative security status? Beware of what you wish for on that one. Again. Stop for a minute, relax, and look at what was said. Grayscale never even mentioned cruisers, he never said whether the sentries would be "extremely dangerous" "nonthreatening" "insta popping" or anything else, he never said that the system was centered around carriers, and he never said they would shoot you for low security status (in fact he came out and specifically clarified that they wouldn't in another thread where people were sensationalizing over the guns without bothering to read up on the crimewatch proposal).
What he did say is that he wants the sentry guns to be impossible to tank for extended periods of time. He brought up the triage carrier because this is the ultimate limit. If a carrier takes longer than 5 minutes for the gate guns to kill, it's essentially not going to get killed by them, which means it can spread the reps around and make gate camps able to hang around for a very long time. He identified this as a bottleneck to his concept, hence why he mentioned it. No other mentions of the damage were made, and you can't interpolate a curve from a single point. Given that this curve is absolutely not going to be linear, you can't even interpolate it from two points.
So I really don't understand what you're complaining about, since literally everything about this concept is nebulous |
Turgesson
Five-0 Suddenly Spaceships.
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:20:00 -
[316] - Quote
Saile Litestrider wrote: What he did say is that he wants the sentry guns to be impossible to tank for extended periods of time. He brought up the triage carrier because this is the ultimate limit. If a carrier takes longer than 5 minutes for the gate guns to kill, it's essentially not going to get killed by them, which means it can spread the reps around and make gate camps able to hang around for a very long time. He identified this as a bottleneck to his concept, hence why he mentioned it. No other mentions of the damage were made, and you can't interpolate a curve from a single point. Given that this curve is absolutely not going to be linear, you can't even interpolate it from two points.
That's a big paragraph of wrong. Wow, triage carrier the ultimate limit being killed by gate guns rather than players and if it doesn't die to them in 5 minutes it won't die huh?
Let's interpolate this curve as a downward spiral with factors and flux capicitors to ignore simplicity. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1241
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:54:00 -
[317] - Quote
Turgesson wrote:Saile Litestrider wrote: What he did say is that he wants the sentry guns to be impossible to tank for extended periods of time. He brought up the triage carrier because this is the ultimate limit. If a carrier takes longer than 5 minutes for the gate guns to kill, it's essentially not going to get killed by them, which means it can spread the reps around and make gate camps able to hang around for a very long time. He identified this as a bottleneck to his concept, hence why he mentioned it. No other mentions of the damage were made, and you can't interpolate a curve from a single point. Given that this curve is absolutely not going to be linear, you can't even interpolate it from two points.
That's a big paragraph of wrong. Wow, triage carrier the ultimate limit being killed by gate guns rather than players and if it doesn't die to them in 5 minutes it won't die huh? Let's interpolate this curve as a downward spiral with factors and flux capicitors to ignore simplicity. Welp, better break out the super carrier repping. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Reicine Ceer
Rodents of Unusual Size The Rat Race
59
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:25:00 -
[318] - Quote
Surely the easiest thing to do would be to just make it so that gate guns have tankable but high dps, but also with web and scram? |
Lilianna Star
State War Academy Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:32:00 -
[319] - Quote
In my experience, Low sec is always the most dangerous place. Even more so than nullsec. I avoid it unless I absolutely need to travel through it. And even then I plan the shortest route through it.
With this change, I'll actually consider going through low sec again. This won't kill low sec, it'll liven it up. |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:48:00 -
[320] - Quote
Reicine Ceer wrote:Surely the easiest thing to do would be to just make it so that gate guns have tankable but high dps, but also with web and scram?
Whille that's a better "spitball" idea than what was proposed it's still bad for many reasons.
Let's really ride the crazy train here and use our massive common sense skills together to help our dear misled developer before he's hanging out with dropbear in the free soup kitchen. Let the security rating of a system govern how many sentries are in a battery (.4 system = 4 guns per battery, .3 system = 3 guns). Change the cycle time for lower rated systems to compensate for less guns and possibly open up opportunities for small hulls to camp in lower security systems. Tweak damage anyway ya want they will always be tankable for long periods of time unless the "ramp up" is global, reaches 100% power within a short period of time and lasts till the next down time. |
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Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:54:00 -
[321] - Quote
Delicious tears - seriously - best harvest ever? DRINK FOR TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL. |
GallantReflex Enaka
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 17:03:00 -
[322] - Quote
Agree and signed |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:06:00 -
[323] - Quote
Lilianna Star wrote:In my experience, Low sec is always the most dangerous place. Even more so than nullsec. I avoid it unless I absolutely need to travel through it. And even then I plan the shortest route through it.
With this change, I'll actually consider going through low sec again. This won't kill low sec, it'll liven it up.
No it'll make you think Sentries will hold your hand through each jump through low sec. "Livening up" low sec does not mean making it easier for you to pass through the system to your destination. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:09:00 -
[324] - Quote
Patrakele wrote:Delicious tears - seriously - best harvest ever? DRINK FOR TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL.
Oh boy. Last kill was in 2010 I see.... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Patrakele |
XxRTEKxX
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:21:00 -
[325] - Quote
I wonder if the gate gun damage will be consistent in all of lowsec or be stronger in the 0.4 systems compared to 0.2 as the security status goes closer to no security space. To me that would at least make a bit more sense. At least if we had the ability to destroy the gate guns with a big enough fleet and they just respawn after DT.
Doesn't really matter to me if it becomes harder to camp a gate as long as it is still going to be possible. We'll just have to adapt and come up with new tactics. I'm curious how long the guns will be at full damage. Will they return to normal after a minute or willIit be like the aggression timers and last over ten minutes? Will the damage be the same on anyone who shows up at the gate after the guns are full damage? Or will the damage be specific per pilot bases on their actions? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1241
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:27:00 -
[326] - Quote
XxRTEKxX wrote:At least if we had the ability to destroy the gate guns with a big enough fleet and they just respawn after DT. So 5 titans to clear the gate for easy camping action? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
XxRTEKxX
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:33:00 -
[327] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:XxRTEKxX wrote:At least if we had the ability to destroy the gate guns with a big enough fleet and they just respawn after DT. So 5 titans to clear the gate for easy camping action?
Maybe a couple dreads. Or several battleships. Whatever, as long as the guns can be destroyed if this gate gun change is something ccp is hell bent on doing. At least if the guns have the same ehp as pos guns. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
117
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 19:00:00 -
[328] - Quote
XxRTEKxX wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:XxRTEKxX wrote:At least if we had the ability to destroy the gate guns with a big enough fleet and they just respawn after DT. So 5 titans to clear the gate for easy camping action? Maybe a couple dreads. Or several battleships. Whatever, as long as the guns can be destroyed if this gate gun change is something ccp is hell bent on doing. At least if the guns have the same ehp as pos guns.
Or....just do as we do now and refrain from using capital period? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2327
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 19:00:00 -
[329] - Quote
Quote:Having the sentries from stations and gates fire on you because of negative security status? Beware of what you wish for on that one.
I may have missed something admittedly, but at no point have a I seen a statement that negative security status = suspicion.
It was my understanding that "suspicion" equals events like can flipping, possibly remote repping/boosting a ship in combat, etc. Events that under the new system would make you shootable by anyone (and apparently gate guns) but not a concordable offense if you were in high sec. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
XxRTEKxX
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 19:13:00 -
[330] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:XxRTEKxX wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:XxRTEKxX wrote:At least if we had the ability to destroy the gate guns with a big enough fleet and they just respawn after DT. So 5 titans to clear the gate for easy camping action? Maybe a couple dreads. Or several battleships. Whatever, as long as the guns can be destroyed if this gate gun change is something ccp is hell bent on doing. At least if the guns have the same ehp as pos guns. Or....just do as we do now and refrain from using capital period?
Looks like ccp doesn't want it as it is now. They seem to what they want and compromise after. |
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1241
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 19:37:00 -
[331] - Quote
XxRTEKxX wrote:Tara Read wrote:XxRTEKxX wrote:Maybe a couple dreads. Or several battleships. Whatever, as long as the guns can be destroyed if this gate gun change is something ccp is hell bent on doing. At least if the guns have the same ehp as pos guns. Or....just do as we do now and refrain from using capital period? Looks like ccp doesn't want it as it is now. They seem to what they want and compromise after. Just use supercarriers and titans.
Waiting for the devblog about the need for gate guns to threaten a titan within 5 minutes. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Dimitri Zaitsev
Tellurium Fighters
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 20:26:00 -
[332] - Quote
/ signed.
Not a lowsec roamer but this is really stupid.
CCP likes to change rules during the game match just to make things easier to the new players.
If you want a safe space, just stay in hisec and do something against those sweet water pirates camping hisec stations with logistics support.
But losec is losec. If you don't know how to survive there, just don't go there. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
622
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 20:29:00 -
[333] - Quote
Keep Gate/Station camping, go ahead do it, smartbomb everything blahblahblah. This is how low sec is supposed to be (in some people's mind) brb |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2327
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 20:31:00 -
[334] - Quote
This simply puts a time limit on how long you can sit on the gates after drawing sentry gun attention, it even allows you the use of frigates to get the inital tackle long enough for tankier ships to get a point.
If you are worried about picking up the wrecks afterwards simply put your looting alt into a deep space transport. It should be able to tank the guns with ease for more than long enough, although if your wrecks are scattered you may have to warp out and then back in to get the next one.
Again, as far as I know, a low security status has nothing to do with this. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1241
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 20:42:00 -
[335] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:If capitals on gates is a problem (personally I've never seen any capitals camping lowsec gates) then the most logical step would be to add citadel torpedo launchers that only target capitals. I've only seen a Moros once off a Low Sec gate and we just about killed it. No serious Pirate is going to risk a capital off a gate with titan bridge's and the like around. Officer smartbombing titans ahoy. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Yabba Addict
Red Shift Enterprises
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 21:08:00 -
[336] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.
Been totally reassured that what you're doing isn't a huge fuckup. Totally. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
119
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 21:19:00 -
[337] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tara Read wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:If capitals on gates is a problem (personally I've never seen any capitals camping lowsec gates) then the most logical step would be to add citadel torpedo launchers that only target capitals. I've only seen a Moros once off a Low Sec gate and we just about killed it. No serious Pirate is going to risk a capital off a gate with titan bridge's and the like around. Officer smartbombing titans ahoy.
Get out of my Low Sec.... Damned kids with your Titans and loud music... |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
119
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 21:20:00 -
[338] - Quote
XxRTEKxX wrote:Tara Read wrote:XxRTEKxX wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:XxRTEKxX wrote:At least if we had the ability to destroy the gate guns with a big enough fleet and they just respawn after DT. So 5 titans to clear the gate for easy camping action? Maybe a couple dreads. Or several battleships. Whatever, as long as the guns can be destroyed if this gate gun change is something ccp is hell bent on doing. At least if the guns have the same ehp as pos guns. Or....just do as we do now and refrain from using capital period? Looks like ccp doesn't want it as it is now. They seem to what they want and compromise after. Look at the inventory window. I liked how it was before. Most said they didn't want change but ccp did it anyways. Its only after they change something that they make any compromise.
That's fine. Guild Wars 2 is on my agenda anyways. |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
69
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 22:17:00 -
[339] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Alright I normally don't get involved in the gripe fests that surround game mechanics. Personally I've played Eve off and on since 2004 with a few breaks here and there and seen many changes come to New Eden. Some for the better some for worse, but overall I must hand it to CCP they've kept me coming back for more with new opportunities and changes.
Eve to me has always basically been be whatever you want. Want to fight for a faction? Done. Want to make billions or risk losing it all in a Wormhole? Done. Research? Done. Be part of some conglomerate of null sec knuckleheads (grin) Done.
Myself Piracy has always been a dark lust. Preying upon those fool enough to step into the depths of unlawful space has been one of the main reasons why I love this game. Low sec to me has always been home. It's also where I have made some very good friends and seen some of the brightest players in Eve come and go over the years.
Yet today the announcement by CCP Greyscale stating Sentry Gun changes has me more than worried. This move could potentially destroy what is left of any activity in Low Sec. We all know the saying: Low Sec is dead. Why do you ask? Much of the traffic that was coming into low sec was due profit that was still viable a few years back.
Now with the major null sec alliances keeping a vice grip on any and everything it has shown that low sec is nothing but old news except sadly for systems you pass through on your way to null or back into high sec. For those of us still around it's still home.
Here is what was quoted by CCP Greyscale in the minutes released yesterday:
CSM minutes wrote: CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.
What does this mean? Essentially it is led up to interpretation but anyone "suspect" hence anyone with negative sec status will essentially be fired upon in low sec. GCC no longer becomes applicable and fights on gates now will be reduced to under 5 minutes or until all aggressor's are destroyed.
This also means that while traveling through Low Sec even without GCC someone would potentially be fired upon. This also means that Sentries will simply be untankable even with different persons sharing the aggression during a fight.
It effectively stops any combat after 5 minutes for the aggressor and further kills any sort of decent fight that may be had off a gate except for a quick gank and run which really isn't a decent fight anyways,
I personally feel this is a tremendous mistake not only due to Sentry mechanics, but how such mechanics will force players OUT of Low Sec permanently to either high sec or for many of us the unappealing systems in Null.
I understand some here may only see this in terms of Gatecamps. However it not only effects camps but the very combat mechanics that will now have to be dealt with in Low Sec putting anyone with low security status at a dismal disadvantage during a fight which would eventually end in a loss after 4 to 5 minutes regardless.
With such mechanics in place it has already been discussed by myself and others in my alliance that if such changes were indeed implemented we'd have no desire to move out to Null to conform and would most likely unsubscribe.
Many of us who live in Low Sec have played this game for far too long to see the last bit of what makes this game fun to us essentially twisted and contorted into a region that will now truly be "dead".
I beseech CCP Greyscale and others to rethink these mechanics not only for the players who call Low Sec home, but also in regards to the future limited combat in Low Sec which would thus make it truly unfavorable and unwanted.
If these changes do go into effect I for one will be unsubscribing all three of my accounts and simply moving on. It's not worth my time and money to be forced into regions of Eve I feel are hardly fun or appealing.
Please sign below if you agree.
And a other QQ post about this USING your alt is a scaring act off a noob. Get over it. I can also say i played sinds orginal beta close beta and play the 2D game at start.... This is not trusting thats just ignoring like a troll. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
120
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 22:40:00 -
[340] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Tara Read wrote:Alright I normally don't get involved in the gripe fests that surround game mechanics. Personally I've played Eve off and on since 2004 with a few breaks here and there and seen many changes come to New Eden. Some for the better some for worse, but overall I must hand it to CCP they've kept me coming back for more with new opportunities and changes.
Eve to me has always basically been be whatever you want. Want to fight for a faction? Done. Want to make billions or risk losing it all in a Wormhole? Done. Research? Done. Be part of some conglomerate of null sec knuckleheads (grin) Done.
Myself Piracy has always been a dark lust. Preying upon those fool enough to step into the depths of unlawful space has been one of the main reasons why I love this game. Low sec to me has always been home. It's also where I have made some very good friends and seen some of the brightest players in Eve come and go over the years.
Yet today the announcement by CCP Greyscale stating Sentry Gun changes has me more than worried. This move could potentially destroy what is left of any activity in Low Sec. We all know the saying: Low Sec is dead. Why do you ask? Much of the traffic that was coming into low sec was due profit that was still viable a few years back.
Now with the major null sec alliances keeping a vice grip on any and everything it has shown that low sec is nothing but old news except sadly for systems you pass through on your way to null or back into high sec. For those of us still around it's still home.
Here is what was quoted by CCP Greyscale in the minutes released yesterday:
CSM minutes wrote: CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.
What does this mean? Essentially it is led up to interpretation but anyone "suspect" hence anyone with negative sec status will essentially be fired upon in low sec. GCC no longer becomes applicable and fights on gates now will be reduced to under 5 minutes or until all aggressor's are destroyed.
This also means that while traveling through Low Sec even without GCC someone would potentially be fired upon. This also means that Sentries will simply be untankable even with different persons sharing the aggression during a fight.
It effectively stops any combat after 5 minutes for the aggressor and further kills any sort of decent fight that may be had off a gate except for a quick gank and run which really isn't a decent fight anyways,
I personally feel this is a tremendous mistake not only due to Sentry mechanics, but how such mechanics will force players OUT of Low Sec permanently to either high sec or for many of us the unappealing systems in Null.
I understand some here may only see this in terms of Gatecamps. However it not only effects camps but the very combat mechanics that will now have to be dealt with in Low Sec putting anyone with low security status at a dismal disadvantage during a fight which would eventually end in a loss after 4 to 5 minutes regardless.
With such mechanics in place it has already been discussed by myself and others in my alliance that if such changes were indeed implemented we'd have no desire to move out to Null to conform and would most likely unsubscribe.
Many of us who live in Low Sec have played this game for far too long to see the last bit of what makes this game fun to us essentially twisted and contorted into a region that will now truly be "dead".
I beseech CCP Greyscale and others to rethink these mechanics not only for the players who call Low Sec home, but also in regards to the future limited combat in Low Sec which would thus make it truly unfavorable and unwanted.
If these changes do go into effect I for one will be unsubscribing all three of my accounts and simply moving on. It's not worth my time and money to be forced into regions of Eve I feel are hardly fun or appealing.
Please sign below if you agree. And a other QQ post about this USING your alt is a scaring act off a noob. Get over it. I can also say i played sinds orginal beta close beta and play the 2D game at start.... This is not trusting thats just ignoring like a troll.
Proper English and sentence structure goes a LONG way...
|
|
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 22:49:00 -
[341] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote: And a other QQ post about this USING your alt is a scaring act off a noob. Get over it. I can also say i played sinds orginal beta close beta and play the 2D game at start.... This is not trusting thats just ignoring like a troll.
Proper English? How about just English because I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Maybe smoke signals would work better next time. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2328
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 23:41:00 -
[342] - Quote
Still waiting to see the part that I apparently missed that says that a low sec status has anything at all to do with being "Suspect". To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 23:48:00 -
[343] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Still waiting to see the part that I apparently missed that says that a low sec status has anything at all to do with being "Suspect".
"Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise"
That do it for ya? Criminal flag as in outlaw or gcc is his problem to clear up which I think he did. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2328
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 23:57:00 -
[344] - Quote
Homo Jesus wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Still waiting to see the part that I apparently missed that says that a low sec status has anything at all to do with being "Suspect". "Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise" That do it for ya? Criminal flag as in outlaw or gcc is his problem to clear up which I think he did. And now would come the part I asked for... source PLEASE!
Edit: Never mind, I found it. Wow boys, you really need to learn to take things in context.
You actually think that what he is saying is that in Low Sec, if you have a bad sec status, the Sentries will fire on you?
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:01:00 -
[345] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Still waiting to see the part that I apparently missed that says that a low sec status has anything at all to do with being "Suspect". "Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise" That do it for ya? Criminal flag as in outlaw or gcc is his problem to clear up which I think he did. And now would come the part I asked for... source PLEASE!
It's already been quoted by CCP Greyscale in the CSM minutes. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:03:00 -
[346] - Quote
Sigh.... Have you not read over fifteen pages worth of information? It could be put into that context however the MAIN concern is the gate guns being able to wipe even a Triage Carrier off the field within a mere five minutes of agression thus ending any prolonged engagements.
FYI that little tidbit was also in the minutes. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2328
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:03:00 -
[347] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Still waiting to see the part that I apparently missed that says that a low sec status has anything at all to do with being "Suspect". "Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise" That do it for ya? Criminal flag as in outlaw or gcc is his problem to clear up which I think he did. And now would come the part I asked for... source PLEASE! It's already been quoted by CCP Greyscale in the CSM minutes.
Sorry Tara, I edited my post as you were responding. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2328
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:05:00 -
[348] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Sigh.... Have you not read over fifteen pages worth of information? It could be put into that context however the MAIN concern is the gate guns being able to wipe even a Triage Carrier off the field within a mere five minutes of agression thus ending any prolonged engagements. FYI that little tidbit was also in the minutes.
That's not the thrust of the original post... and frankly being able to tank the gate guns in any area indefinitely is a poor mechanic to begin with.
You will get little sympathy from any "pirate" worth his salt, or anyone else for that matter.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:08:00 -
[349] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Tara Read wrote:Sigh.... Have you not read over fifteen pages worth of information? It could be put into that context however the MAIN concern is the gate guns being able to wipe even a Triage Carrier off the field within a mere five minutes of agression thus ending any prolonged engagements. FYI that little tidbit was also in the minutes. That's not the thrust of the original post... and frankly being able to tank the gate guns in any area indefinitely is a poor mechanic to begin with. You will get little sympathy from any "pirate" worth his salt, or anyone else for that matter.
Oh Jesus.... gate guns already are "untankable" to single ships unless multiple persons share aggression... And yes that IS the thrust of the original post. The original post was clearly stating a negative change to small gang engagements off gates.
And don't give me this "pirate worth his salt etc etc" tripe. You've had multiple pirates from all backgrounds comment and agree with the points I originally outlined. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:08:00 -
[350] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:[
No it'll make you think Sentries will hold your hand through each jump through low sec. "Livening up" low sec does not mean making it easier for you to pass through the system to your destination.
This quote highlights just how stupid some gate campers really are. Anyone that can actually think logically knows that if low sec is more accessible, it will increase traffic.
PVP in this game is skilless enough as it is. Oh-no, the game got a little bit harder, better cry on the forums.
Great job with this change CCP. More tears from the easymode pvp crowd please. |
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:13:00 -
[351] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote:[
No it'll make you think Sentries will hold your hand through each jump through low sec. "Livening up" low sec does not mean making it easier for you to pass through the system to your destination. This quote highlights just how stupid some gate campers really are. Anyone that can actually think logically knows that if low sec is more accessible it will increase traffic. More lazy, stupid EVE "pvper" tears please.
You really should try to use more than 5% of that grey matter rattling around inside your head. If you had read any of the points outlined and reiterated it has little to nothing to do with "camps." If anything it would be a detriment and would encourage even more cheap tactics for others to catch prey quickly then leave.
If all you desire is sniping fleets with fast interceptor tackle to snag targets and have zero true committed engagements be my guest. You clearly are talking out your ass. |
Yabba Addict
Red Shift Enterprises
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:15:00 -
[352] - Quote
And having sebo boosted inties that can insta lock and have a good chance of locking blockade runners is gonna increase traffic? |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:16:00 -
[353] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote:[
No it'll make you think Sentries will hold your hand through each jump through low sec. "Livening up" low sec does not mean making it easier for you to pass through the system to your destination. This quote highlights just how stupid some gate campers really are. Anyone that can actually think logically knows that if low sec is more accessible it will increase traffic. More lazy, stupid EVE "pvper" tears please.
An example of an activity this increased traffic will partake in now that the gates and stations are all magically cleared? |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:18:00 -
[354] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote:[
No it'll make you think Sentries will hold your hand through each jump through low sec. "Livening up" low sec does not mean making it easier for you to pass through the system to your destination. This quote highlights just how stupid some gate campers really are. Anyone that can actually think logically knows that if low sec is more accessible it will increase traffic. More lazy, stupid EVE "pvper" tears please. You really should try to use more than 5% of that grey matter rattling around inside your head. If you had read any of the points outlined and reiterated it has little to nothing to do with "camps." If anything it would be a detriment and would encourage even more cheap tactics for others to catch prey quickly then leave. If all you desire is sniping fleets with fast interceptor tackle to snag targets and have zero true committed engagements be my guest. You clearly are talking out your ass.
oh, i did read your incredibly one-side and narrow minded perspective. Listen to you, defending gatecamping and crying about cheap tactics emerging. LOL.
eve "pvpers" really are the dumbest of all mmorpg pvpers. Driven from games that require actual skill. About time CCP shat on you and took away your easymode kills. In other pvp games, players actually have to work for their kills, they dont just sit around waiting for victims and merely have to click 2-3 buttons with their mouse FTW. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1244
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:23:00 -
[355] - Quote
Homo Jesus wrote: An example of an activity this increased traffic will partake in now that the gates and stations are all magically cleared? Station trading and manufacturing capitals, doubtless. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:30:00 -
[356] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote:[
No it'll make you think Sentries will hold your hand through each jump through low sec. "Livening up" low sec does not mean making it easier for you to pass through the system to your destination. This quote highlights just how stupid some gate campers really are. Anyone that can actually think logically knows that if low sec is more accessible it will increase traffic. More lazy, stupid EVE "pvper" tears please. You really should try to use more than 5% of that grey matter rattling around inside your head. If you had read any of the points outlined and reiterated it has little to nothing to do with "camps." If anything it would be a detriment and would encourage even more cheap tactics for others to catch prey quickly then leave. If all you desire is sniping fleets with fast interceptor tackle to snag targets and have zero true committed engagements be my guest. You clearly are talking out your ass. oh, i did read your incredibly one-side and narrow minded perspective. Listen to you, defending gatecamping and crying about cheap tactics emerging. LOL. eve "pvpers" really are the dumbest of all mmorpg pvpers. Driven from games that require actual skill. About time CCP shat on you and took away your easymode kills. In other pvp games, players actually have to work for their kills, they dont just sit around waiting for victims and merely have to click 2-3 buttons with their mouse FTW.
I'll just sit back and see the other responses to your post. What happened did you get pissy when you were taunted in local for being an absolute idiot? I would assume as much. No need to pick apart how terrible your opinion is on the subject others can see it for themselves. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:34:00 -
[357] - Quote
Homo Jesus wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote:[
No it'll make you think Sentries will hold your hand through each jump through low sec. "Livening up" low sec does not mean making it easier for you to pass through the system to your destination. This quote highlights just how stupid some gate campers really are. Anyone that can actually think logically knows that if low sec is more accessible it will increase traffic. More lazy, stupid EVE "pvper" tears please. An example of an activity this increased traffic will partake in now that the gates and stations are all magically cleared?
I won't even go through a gate if I know its camped. With this change, my chances of getting through are greatly improved. Yea, i know you derpish crytard theorycrafters claim its gonna be easier now for u to catch me with your interceptor. Good luck with that. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1244
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:42:00 -
[358] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:I won't even go through a gate if I know its camped. With this change, my chances of getting through are greatly improved. Sad that it even needs explaining. Yea, i know you derpish crytard theorycrafters are trying to say its a buff to gatecamping and claim its gonna be somehow easier now because its possible for you to catch me with your interceptor. Good luck with that. Hmm, for co-ordinated groups perhaps. But if the campers are used to just sitting on gate with their sensor boosters running, guns pre-fired and rushing to target anyone non-friendly that jumps through ... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:46:00 -
[359] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:
eve "pvpers" really are the dumbest of all mmorpg pvpers. Driven from games that require actual skill. About time CCP shat on you and took away your easymode kills. In other pvp games, players actually have to work for their kills, they dont just sit around waiting for victims and merely have to click 2-3 buttons with their mouse FTW.
That's funny man.....way to stir the turd.
And by you passing through the gates easily from A to B low sec will be revived? Cepters can't catch ya? You do know a drone or can cloud to decloak is within the rules as long as it doesn't cause lag...right? |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
137
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:58:00 -
[360] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote:[
No it'll make you think Sentries will hold your hand through each jump through low sec. "Livening up" low sec does not mean making it easier for you to pass through the system to your destination. This quote highlights just how stupid some gate campers really are. Anyone that can actually think logically knows that if low sec is more accessible, it will increase traffic. PVP in this game is skilless enough as it is. Oh-no, the game got a little bit harder, better cry on the forums. Great job with this change CCP. More tears from the easymode pvp crowd please.
I will totally ignore the fact that this makes catching people on gates even easier but since you are clearly above my intellect, please explain to me the following:
If there is more traffic in low sec because it may become harder to stop people on gates, wouldn't the only thing this would achieve is to increase "traffic" (as in gate to gate)? Traffic that can't be interrupted. And what benefit to the game exactly would be achieved by this?
There's no point debating the original post any more as it's beaten to death, but please break down your logic for me regarding your claim above. |
|
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:06:00 -
[361] - Quote
Ludi Burek wrote:Traffic that can't be interrupted.
It can be interrupted, its just requires more effort now, and coordination, and timing. there is also a destination for that traffic, which provides opportunities for pirates other than gate camps. Not everything has to be an extreme, you derps. Oh-no, the game got a little harder , better cry cry on the forums now.
Its pretty funny how you lazy gatecampers are crying about this change while simultaneously claiming that it is supposedly going to be easier to gatecamp now and are against this change. LOL.
Surely CCP can see through the backwards logic of the OP and his mindless supporters who are afraid to lose their easymode "pvp". |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:10:00 -
[362] - Quote
This will pretty much kill piracy in Eve. The only consistently reliable place to catch people is on the gate. Anyone with half a brain cell will be spamming DSCAN while running a site or mission in low sec, so even if you do probe them down they'll be aligning out while you are warping to them.
Basically you'll be able to catch random noobs in belts and then float in space for 15 minutes because otherwise the gate/station guns will kill you.
This game is being ruined one patch at a time..
CCP why don't you come clean and admit you are doing this to clear out pirates from faction warfare lowsec just to make sure your dust 514 launch has carebears in Eve able to travel there and participate in planetary bombardment risk free |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2328
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:18:00 -
[363] - Quote
Quote:That's not the thrust of the original post... and frankly being able to tank the gate guns in any area indefinitely is a poor mechanic to begin with.
You will get little sympathy from any "pirate" worth his salt, or anyone else for that matter.
Quote:Oh Jesus.... gate guns already are "untankable" to single ships unless multiple persons share aggression... And yes that IS the thrust of the original post. The original post was clearly stating a negative change to small gang engagements off gates.
And don't give me this "pirate worth his salt etc etc" tripe. You've had multiple pirates from all backgrounds comment and agree with the points I originally outlined. Pointing out:
1: The thrust of the original post very clearly indicates that you believe that Low sec status (even in a low sec area) means that the gate guns will fire on you... and also a time limit on engagements.
Quote:What does this mean? Essentially it is led up to interpretation but anyone "suspect" hence anyone with negative sec status will essentially be fired upon in low sec. GCC no longer becomes applicable and fights on gates now will be reduced to under 5 minutes or until all aggressor's are destroyed.
2: Some ships CAN tank gate guns indefinitely (or if you prefer, more than long enough to do the job). Why do you think a Triage carrier is part of the example, hmmm?
3: There are far more wanna be pirates out that with less than half a clue than there are competent pirates. If you don't know this then I know what category you belong in.
I think you are going to find that when this all shakes out that his frame of reference was primarily concerning gate guns in high sec... and that low sec guns will continue to ignore sec status just as they do now.
But please, feel free to continue to wax hysterical before we have any detailed information about the exact mechanics of it.
After all, it's par for the course for your average EVE forum poster. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:22:00 -
[364] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:This will pretty much kill piracy in Eve. The only consistently reliable place to catch people is on the gate. Anyone with half a brain cell will be spamming DSCAN while running a site or mission in low sec, so even if you do probe them down they'll be aligning out while you are warping to them.
how dumb are you people, really, to think defenders shouldn't have some tools against aggressors?
|
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:32:00 -
[365] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
After all, it's par for the course for your average EVE forum poster.
Sadly, what I see that's par for the course is people chiming in with no understanding at all of game mechanics like you.
If he was only talking about high sec gates why bring up criminal flags? Ever go to high sec with gcc? I'd go on but the only people who matter already know how wrong any carebear who posted here is about low sec in general as if you're going to insta-pop at every gate, low sec is completely dead, sentries will help you operate in any way there outside of the station, etc... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1247
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:37:00 -
[366] - Quote
Homo Jesus wrote: If he was only talking about high sec gates why bring up criminal flags? Ever go to high sec with gcc? I'd go on but the only people who matter already know how wrong any carebear who posted here is about low sec in general as if you're going to insta-pop at every gate, low sec is completely dead, sentries will help you operate in any way there outside of the station, etc... I thought the point was the guns wouldn't instapop anyone. Whereas they "insta"pop frigates right now. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2328
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:44:00 -
[367] - Quote
Homo Jesus wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
After all, it's par for the course for your average EVE forum poster.
Sadly, what I see that's par for the course is people chiming in with no understanding at all of game mechanics like you. If he was only talking about high sec gates why bring up criminal flags? Ever go to high sec with gcc? I'd go on but the only people who matter already know how wrong any carebear who posted here is about low sec in general as if you're going to insta-pop at every gate, low sec is completely dead, sentries will help you operate in any way there outside of the station, etc...
Psst, I live in Low Sec and currently am dabbling in FW there as a change of pace from 0.0 warfare and Low Sec piracy.
You might note that I"m not the one panicking because someone mentioned they "think" a possible upcoming change might mean that people will get shot more often on gates in Low Sec.
I'm saying wait until you get the details on how these proposed changes will work with Low Sec gates as opposed to High Sec gates and in the correct context, and then decide whether or not to get your panties in a bunch over it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:48:00 -
[368] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Homo Jesus wrote: If he was only talking about high sec gates why bring up criminal flags? Ever go to high sec with gcc? I'd go on but the only people who matter already know how wrong any carebear who posted here is about low sec in general as if you're going to insta-pop at every gate, low sec is completely dead, sentries will help you operate in any way there outside of the station, etc... I thought the point was the guns wouldn't instapop anyone. Whereas they "insta"pop frigates right now.
You were able to get a point out of all this? Mostly the conclusion I've come to is some dev guy shot a spitball at the chalkboard and promised to try to clean it up before release day.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2328
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:50:00 -
[369] - Quote
Homo Jesus wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Homo Jesus wrote: If he was only talking about high sec gates why bring up criminal flags? Ever go to high sec with gcc? I'd go on but the only people who matter already know how wrong any carebear who posted here is about low sec in general as if you're going to insta-pop at every gate, low sec is completely dead, sentries will help you operate in any way there outside of the station, etc... I thought the point was the guns wouldn't instapop anyone. Whereas they "insta"pop frigates right now. You were able to get a point out of all this? Mostly the conclusion I've come to is some dev guy shot a spitball at the chalkboard and promised to try to clean it up before release day. Leaping to the wrong conclusion can be habit forming. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1247
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:53:00 -
[370] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:You were able to get a point out of all this? Mostly the conclusion I've come to is some dev guy shot a spitball at the chalkboard and promised to try to clean it up before release day. Leaping to the wrong conclusion can be habit forming. Hey, CCP does that all the time too. Heh. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
|
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:59:00 -
[371] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Homo Jesus wrote: If he was only talking about high sec gates why bring up criminal flags? Ever go to high sec with gcc? I'd go on but the only people who matter already know how wrong any carebear who posted here is about low sec in general as if you're going to insta-pop at every gate, low sec is completely dead, sentries will help you operate in any way there outside of the station, etc... I thought the point was the guns wouldn't instapop anyone. Whereas they "insta"pop frigates right now. You were able to get a point out of all this? Mostly the conclusion I've come to is some dev guy shot a spitball at the chalkboard and promised to try to clean it up before release day. Leaping to the wrong conclusion can be habit forming.
Yeah, not being a null or FW pet chasing isk taught me to try to consistently predict outcomes and understand mechanics beyond what primary was called...good nite o/
|
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
346
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 02:01:00 -
[372] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:This will pretty much kill piracy in Eve. The only consistently reliable place to catch people is on the gate. Anyone with half a brain cell will be spamming DSCAN while running a site or mission in low sec, so even if you do probe them down they'll be aligning out while you are warping to them.
Basically you'll be able to catch random noobs in belts and then float in space for 15 minutes because otherwise the gate/station guns will kill you.
This game is being ruined one patch at a time..
CCP why don't you come clean and admit you are doing this to clear out pirates from faction warfare lowsec just to make sure your dust 514 launch has carebears in Eve able to travel there and participate in planetary bombardment risk free OMG CCP KILLD PRACY!11
WAT THEY EXPECT U TO DO NAO? WORK FOR YUR KILLZ? THAS LOODICRUS |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 02:20:00 -
[373] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Whar Target wrote:This will pretty much kill piracy in Eve. The only consistently reliable place to catch people is on the gate. Anyone with half a brain cell will be spamming DSCAN while running a site or mission in low sec, so even if you do probe them down they'll be aligning out while you are warping to them.
Basically you'll be able to catch random noobs in belts and then float in space for 15 minutes because otherwise the gate/station guns will kill you.
This game is being ruined one patch at a time..
CCP why don't you come clean and admit you are doing this to clear out pirates from faction warfare lowsec just to make sure your dust 514 launch has carebears in Eve able to travel there and participate in planetary bombardment risk free OMG CCP KILLD PRACY!11 WAT THEY EXPECT U TO DO NAO? WORK FOR YUR KILLZ? THAS LOODICRUS
hahahhah! my thoughts exactly. I never thought screaming, confused babies could be so entertaining. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2328
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 02:23:00 -
[374] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:You were able to get a point out of all this? Mostly the conclusion I've come to is some dev guy shot a spitball at the chalkboard and promised to try to clean it up before release day. Leaping to the wrong conclusion can be habit forming. Hey, CCP does that all the time too. Heh. True, true... To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1248
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 02:24:00 -
[375] - Quote
Homo Jesus wrote:Yeah, not being a null or FW pet chasing isk taught me to try to consistently predict outcomes and understand mechanics beyond what primary was called...good nite o/ When I fly ECM I can get to be called primary. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
432
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 02:44:00 -
[376] - Quote
signed. |
Attica
Social Destortion
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 02:56:00 -
[377] - Quote
/not signed :)
You cant be a pirate and expect to pretty much go where you please with impunity. You play you pay, if you're going to be an azs and gank ppl then more power to you. There must be consequences however to piracy, yes even more than is currently in the game, which is nothing really. It's one thing to be a pvp oriented game, it's another to let players ruin hours of play time of other players 'just cause' with no real consequences. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. |
Pipa Porto
635
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 03:30:00 -
[378] - Quote
Attica wrote:/not signed :)
You cant be a pirate and expect to pretty much go where you please with impunity. You play you pay, if you're going to be an azs and gank ppl then more power to you. There must be consequences however to piracy, yes even more than is currently in the game, which is nothing really. It's one thing to be a pvp oriented game, it's another to let players ruin hours of play time of other players 'just cause' with no real consequences. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish.
The only reason pirates can roam around with impunity is because other players don't kill them. There are no repercussions whatsoever to killing a pirate. It's a PvP game, you want pirates to have a rough time of it, nothing's stopping you from making it so, Mr. Sulu. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Attica
Social Destortion
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 03:36:00 -
[379] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Attica wrote:/not signed :)
You cant be a pirate and expect to pretty much go where you please with impunity. You play you pay, if you're going to be an azs and gank ppl then more power to you. There must be consequences however to piracy, yes even more than is currently in the game, which is nothing really. It's one thing to be a pvp oriented game, it's another to let players ruin hours of play time of other players 'just cause' with no real consequences. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. The only reason pirates can roam around with impunity is because other players don't kill them. There are no repercussions whatsoever to killing a pirate. It's a PvP game, you want pirates to have a rough time of it, nothing's stopping you from making it so, Mr. Sulu.
Aye but there is an npc police force in the game for a reason. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 03:42:00 -
[380] - Quote
Attica wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Attica wrote:/not signed :)
You cant be a pirate and expect to pretty much go where you please with impunity. You play you pay, if you're going to be an azs and gank ppl then more power to you. There must be consequences however to piracy, yes even more than is currently in the game, which is nothing really. It's one thing to be a pvp oriented game, it's another to let players ruin hours of play time of other players 'just cause' with no real consequences. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. The only reason pirates can roam around with impunity is because other players don't kill them. There are no repercussions whatsoever to killing a pirate. It's a PvP game, you want pirates to have a rough time of it, nothing's stopping you from making it so, Mr. Sulu. Aye but there is an npc police force in the game for a reason.
Ahahahaha.... Oh plz concord save me! |
|
Pipa Porto
635
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 03:46:00 -
[381] - Quote
Attica wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Attica wrote:/not signed :)
You cant be a pirate and expect to pretty much go where you please with impunity. You play you pay, if you're going to be an azs and gank ppl then more power to you. There must be consequences however to piracy, yes even more than is currently in the game, which is nothing really. It's one thing to be a pvp oriented game, it's another to let players ruin hours of play time of other players 'just cause' with no real consequences. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. The only reason pirates can roam around with impunity is because other players don't kill them. There are no repercussions whatsoever to killing a pirate. It's a PvP game, you want pirates to have a rough time of it, nothing's stopping you from making it so, Mr. Sulu. Aye but there is an npc police force in the game for a reason.
Not in LS.
In HS, they're largely ineffectual for a reason. Because they're meant to be a minor inconvenience for outlaws. The Players are the ones who are supposed to (if they want) make life hell for pirates. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1248
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 03:47:00 -
[382] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Ahahahaha.... Oh plz concord save me! Only if you get an offensive module used on you, by someone you're not flagged to or at war with, and only after a (probably substantial) delay.
Hope your tank can last until then Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Soldarius
TreadStone Standard Tribal Band
272
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 03:48:00 -
[383] - Quote
Sentry guns in losec makes for very few small-gang (ship-size) fights. Every time I've fought on a gate in losec in a frigate, I've gotten insta-popped by the damn sentries. It's completely ********.
Just get rid of the damn gate-guns. I'm sure the various empire treasury officials will love it. "How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Attica
Social Destortion
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 03:53:00 -
[384] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Attica wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Attica wrote:/not signed :)
You cant be a pirate and expect to pretty much go where you please with impunity. You play you pay, if you're going to be an azs and gank ppl then more power to you. There must be consequences however to piracy, yes even more than is currently in the game, which is nothing really. It's one thing to be a pvp oriented game, it's another to let players ruin hours of play time of other players 'just cause' with no real consequences. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. The only reason pirates can roam around with impunity is because other players don't kill them. There are no repercussions whatsoever to killing a pirate. It's a PvP game, you want pirates to have a rough time of it, nothing's stopping you from making it so, Mr. Sulu. Aye but there is an npc police force in the game for a reason. Ahahahaha.... Oh plz concord save me!
For the love... I thought I was going to get a logical/intellectual debate going with you but you had to ruin it with elitist bullshite. Ah well, mayhap the next subject we meet up on things will work out differently. Cheers to you for what logic and intellect you did show though. There is hope ! Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 04:48:00 -
[385] - Quote
Attica wrote:Tara Read wrote:Attica wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Attica wrote:/not signed :)
You cant be a pirate and expect to pretty much go where you please with impunity. You play you pay, if you're going to be an azs and gank ppl then more power to you. There must be consequences however to piracy, yes even more than is currently in the game, which is nothing really. It's one thing to be a pvp oriented game, it's another to let players ruin hours of play time of other players 'just cause' with no real consequences. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. The only reason pirates can roam around with impunity is because other players don't kill them. There are no repercussions whatsoever to killing a pirate. It's a PvP game, you want pirates to have a rough time of it, nothing's stopping you from making it so, Mr. Sulu. Aye but there is an npc police force in the game for a reason. Ahahahaha.... Oh plz concord save me! For the love... I thought I was going to get a logical/intellectual debate going with you but you had to ruin it with elitist bullshite. Ah well, mayhap the next subject we meet up on things will work out differently. Cheers to you for what logic and intellect you did show though. There is hope !
you can't expect a logical argument comming from these awful crybaby pirates who are afraid to lose their easymode. They are even trying to say this is a buff to gate camping while wet tears simultaneously gush down their cheeks. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
123
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 05:36:00 -
[386] - Quote
Attica wrote:Tara Read wrote:Attica wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Attica wrote:/not signed :)
You cant be a pirate and expect to pretty much go where you please with impunity. You play you pay, if you're going to be an azs and gank ppl then more power to you. There must be consequences however to piracy, yes even more than is currently in the game, which is nothing really. It's one thing to be a pvp oriented game, it's another to let players ruin hours of play time of other players 'just cause' with no real consequences. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. The only reason pirates can roam around with impunity is because other players don't kill them. There are no repercussions whatsoever to killing a pirate. It's a PvP game, you want pirates to have a rough time of it, nothing's stopping you from making it so, Mr. Sulu. Aye but there is an npc police force in the game for a reason. Ahahahaha.... Oh plz concord save me! For the love... I thought I was going to get a logical/intellectual debate going with you but you had to ruin it with elitist bullshite. Ah well, mayhap the next subject we meet up on things will work out differently. Cheers to you for what logic and intellect you did show though. There is hope !
Oh jeez. Now this turns into some "intellectual debate?" We all know why CONCORD is there in the first place. To keep high sec "secure" so all the missioners and carebears can go about their daily lives untouched by the chaos that reins in other regions.
Then once these people take their first baby steps into low sec or null they cry foul because their perfect little world is shattered by that false sense of security.
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
123
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 05:41:00 -
[387] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:
you can't expect a logical argument comming from these awful crybaby pirates who are afraid to lose their easymode. They are even trying to say this is a buff to gate camping while wet tears simultaneously gush down their cheeks.
Who's they? BTW not all us Pirates are "crybabies" and not all our fights are due to camps. Have a look for yourself. Tonight was quite fun
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17162838 (yummy)
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17161887 (meh)
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17162189 (juicy!)
|
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 06:48:00 -
[388] - Quote
of course im not saying all pirates are awful terribad crybabies who throw their hands up when CCP decides to nerf easymode pvp, just anyone who is crying about sentry guns. Real pvpers adapt and would welcome this change.
Why are you linking unimpressive gangbang killmails where the victim didn't stand a chance? You might as well be gloating over a bug you stepped on.
I'm really not surprised how all these awful pvpers are tearing their hair out over this change. Gatecamping for kills was waaay too easy and part of why pvp in eve is considered to be such a joke. So many terribad pvpers had found sancturary in EVE where their player skills didn't play a factor. I'm glad CCP is finally making piracy a little bit more challenging, even if just a little. The game is discouraging enough for competitive pvpers in that CCP allows terribads compete with the best via low skill ceilings, equalized progression and a super simplified combat interface that, in all seriousness, a monkey could operate. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
125
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 07:12:00 -
[389] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:of course im not saying all pirates are awful terribad crybabies who throw their hands up when CCP decides to nerf easymode pvp, just anyone who is crying about sentry guns. Real pvpers adapt and would welcome this change. Why are you linking unimpressive gangbang killmails where the victim didn't stand a chance? You might as well be gloating over a bug you stepped on. I'm really not surprised how all these awful pvpers are tearing their hair out over this change. Gatecamping for kills was waaay too easy and part of why pvp in eve is considered to be such a joke. So many terribad pvpers had found sancturary in EVE where their player skills didn't play a factor. I'm glad CCP is finally making piracy a little bit more challenging, even if just a little. The game is discouraging enough for competitive pvpers in that CCP has let terribads compete with the best via low skill ceilings, equalized progression and a super simplified combat interface that, in all seriousness, a monkey could operate.
Nothing pleases you does it? Eve is about tact and taking advantage of opportunities my friend. we were initially roaming (not camping gates so this should please you) looking for a fight. We eventually poked around a huge battle going on with TEST involved with over 1100 people in local (and time dilation to a wonderful 30%).
We decided to head back but not before using their own bubbles to our advantage. I only posted the major kills we got as people became trapped and helpless in their poor little pods. So sad...
What I find ironic is you claim these killmails "gangbangs" when you have over a THOUSAND pilots gang banging each other less than 5 jumps over! Are you really this dense and stupid?
And how more EZ mode do you have to get with being told who to primary, alpha, rinse and repeat? How much more EZ mode is that? Please show me! These pilots get hundreds upon hundreds of kills simply by lining up and being a damned lemming.
Oh and the Malestrom. Initially they had more people yet failed to come to his aide when the hunter became the hunted. It still was a decent kill with a loot drop of over 200 mil. Not bad for a nights end.
So here. I've shown you these major points. Lets see you bullshit your way outta this one.
1. Real pvp players go TO the fights. We actively seek out targets and opportunity.
2. Real pvp players realize how horrible these changes would be simply because fights are now limited to under 5 minutes.
3. You assume every pirate is a sensor boosting lark popping whatever comes their way.
4. You assume we'd rather sit on a gate than explore the vast regions of Eve.
5. Despite evidence stated BY CCP Greyscale himself you fail to see how detrimental these changes are to players whom I quote "player skills play a factor" in.
6. With these changes you would have more of these "EZ mode kills" due to tackle frigs locking down anything that moves while having a fleet alpha Tornado's sitting comfortably outside sentry range popping whatever and whomever comes through said gate.
7. These changes and the EZ mode kills created by such fleet comps (since now we cannot risk committing to fights due to new said sentry changes) will instead hamper Low Sec growth rather than promote it.
8. All of your counter points have tried to paint myself and others as the very people you despise. If we sought only cheap kills instead of good fights I would have wrote a thread praising CCP Greyscale instead of criticizing him. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1248
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 07:47:00 -
[390] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:And how more EZ mode do you have to get with being told who to primary, alpha, rinse and repeat? How much more EZ mode is that? Please show me! These pilots get hundreds upon hundreds of kills simply by lining up and being a damned lemming. If they were getting hundreds of kills, I doubt they were jumping through gates when the FC said not to. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
|
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
131
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 08:10:00 -
[391] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: Low Sec is dead. Why do you ask? Much of the traffic that was coming into low sec was due profit that was still viable a few years back.
Now with the major null sec alliances keeping a vice grip on any and everything it has shown that low sec is nothing but old news except sadly for systems you pass through on your way to null or back into high sec. For those of us still around it's still home.
You forgot that all your gate-camping, and general "shoot-everything-that-moves" policies. Carebears have kept well away from low-sec for ages, and will continue to do so if something isn't changed.
Tara Read wrote: I personally feel this is a tremendous mistake not only due to Sentry mechanics, but how such mechanics will force players OUT of Low Sec permanently to either high sec or for many of us the unappealing systems in Null.
Thats great! Low-sec would quickly become populated by high-sec people looking to take advantage of the lack of risk! I'm sure that would bring you all back in droves.
Tara Read wrote: I understand some here may only see this in terms of Gatecamps. However it not only effects camps but the very combat mechanics that will now have to be dealt with in Low Sec putting anyone with low security status at a dismal disadvantage during a fight which would eventually end in a loss after 4 to 5 minutes regardless.
With this change, you wouldn't be fighting on the gates anymore. People could come into low-sec with significantly decreased chances of immediate face-raping. It would be people in system, running sites or mining that you'd be looking for (or other gangs looking for the same thing). All those that have spent far too much time at gates, they'll have to adapt or fail.
Tara Read wrote: With such mechanics in place it has already been discussed by myself and others in my alliance that if such changes were indeed implemented we'd have no desire to move out to Null to conform and would most likely unsubscribe.
Many of us who live in Low Sec have played this game for far too long to see the last bit of what makes this game fun to us essentially twisted and contorted into a region that will now truly be "dead".
I beseech CCP Greyscale and others to rethink these mechanics not only for the players who call Low Sec home, but also in regards to the future limited combat in Low Sec which would thus make it truly unfavorable and unwanted.
If these changes do go into effect I for one will be unsubscribing all three of my accounts and simply moving on. It's not worth my time and money to be forced into regions of Eve I feel are hardly fun or appealing. .
Though i don't believe you would actually unsubscribe, its an unforunate truth that doing so would improve the game. You guys have been the architects of your own downfall. Low-sec is dead because you've made it a wasteland. The rewards for going there are nothing when compared to the massive risks. I think its one of, if not the biggest, reasons why high-sec players never make the natural move from high to low and null. From their perspective, certain death awaits, generally in the form of a gatecamp.
A change to gate-guns, as well as improving low-sec resources, will give rise to more people in low-sec. More people, means more targets, means more isk. Literally a win win!
People threating to unsubscribe are basicly saying "i don't know how to look for targets!" |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
82
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 08:17:00 -
[392] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tara Read wrote:And how more EZ mode do you have to get with being told who to primary, alpha, rinse and repeat? How much more EZ mode is that? Please show me! These pilots get hundreds upon hundreds of kills simply by lining up and being a damned lemming. If they were getting hundreds of kills, I doubt they were jumping through gates when the FC said not to.
didn-¦t someone say "Jump"? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8909
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 08:19:00 -
[393] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:[You forgot that all your gate-camping, and general "shoot-everything-that-moves" policies. Carebears have kept well away from low-sec for ages, and will continue to do so if something isn't changed. GÇŞand that change has to do with earning potential, not with camps. Camps are just an excuse based on ignorance and widespread panic-mongering since they are 1) easy to bypass with the current mechanics, and 2) quite rare.
Quote:Thats great! Low-sec would quickly become populated by high-sec people looking to take advantage of the lack of risk! I'm sure that would bring you all back in droves. No. Highsec people would still be subject to the same panic-mongering, only now, it would actually be correct: the camps would be the only thing out there since there's little left for anyone else. The campers can do their thing better than before, and roaming gangs will be quite rare.
Quote:With this change, you wouldn't be fighting on the gates anymore. GÇŞand that's why there would be nothing left but campers. People wouldn't be able to get into lowsec since the camps have become far more powerful and since their primary predator is gone.
Quote:A change to gate-guns, as well as improving low-sec resources, will give rise to more people in low-sec. GÇŞor you could just do the latter since the former won't do much difference (other than, as in this case, make camps much worse). GÇŁIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇĄ
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Neon Tetra
the united Negative Ten.
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 10:02:00 -
[394] - Quote
/signed |
Lexmana
658
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 10:58:00 -
[395] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote: you can't expect a logical argument comming from these awful crybaby pirates who are afraid to lose their easymode. They are even trying to say this is a buff to gate camping while wet tears simultaneously gush down their cheeks.
Before acting like an idiot you should try inform yourself about the game you are criticizing.
Fighting pirates at gates is fun and you have the advantage of gate guns helping you out if you let them agress first. This is working as intended. It adds to the lowsec experience. Many of us living there have no problem with this mechanic and would not like gate guns removed.
The changes would completely remove those fights from lowsec. No pirate will ever agress at a gate unless they are put on tackling duty in an interceptor and the fleet of tornadoes are warping in to alpha the poor bastard tackled at the gate. With these changes that is all you will ever see at lowsec gates. Tackle and alpha.
I bet you don't care though because you will probably just stay in highsec running mission until you get bored and quit anyway.
|
LawlSTi
The Imperial Fedaykin
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 11:15:00 -
[396] - Quote
/Signed |
AndromacheDarkstar
Fiscal Fisting Inc.
70
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 13:18:00 -
[397] - Quote
signed |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 15:48:00 -
[398] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Tara Read wrote: Low Sec is dead. Why do you ask? Much of the traffic that was coming into low sec was due profit that was still viable a few years back.
Now with the major null sec alliances keeping a vice grip on any and everything it has shown that low sec is nothing but old news except sadly for systems you pass through on your way to null or back into high sec. For those of us still around it's still home. You forgot that all your gate-camping, and general "shoot-everything-that-moves" policies. Carebears have kept well away from low-sec for ages, and will continue to do so if something isn't changed. Tara Read wrote: I personally feel this is a tremendous mistake not only due to Sentry mechanics, but how such mechanics will force players OUT of Low Sec permanently to either high sec or for many of us the unappealing systems in Null.
Thats great! Low-sec would quickly become populated by high-sec people looking to take advantage of the lack of risk! I'm sure that would bring you all back in droves. Tara Read wrote: I understand some here may only see this in terms of Gatecamps. However it not only effects camps but the very combat mechanics that will now have to be dealt with in Low Sec putting anyone with low security status at a dismal disadvantage during a fight which would eventually end in a loss after 4 to 5 minutes regardless.
With this change, you wouldn't be fighting on the gates anymore. People could come into low-sec with significantly decreased chances of immediate face-raping. It would be people in system, running sites or mining that you'd be looking for (or other gangs looking for the same thing). All those that have spent far too much time at gates, they'll have to adapt or fail. Tara Read wrote: With such mechanics in place it has already been discussed by myself and others in my alliance that if such changes were indeed implemented we'd have no desire to move out to Null to conform and would most likely unsubscribe.
Many of us who live in Low Sec have played this game for far too long to see the last bit of what makes this game fun to us essentially twisted and contorted into a region that will now truly be "dead".
I beseech CCP Greyscale and others to rethink these mechanics not only for the players who call Low Sec home, but also in regards to the future limited combat in Low Sec which would thus make it truly unfavorable and unwanted.
If these changes do go into effect I for one will be unsubscribing all three of my accounts and simply moving on. It's not worth my time and money to be forced into regions of Eve I feel are hardly fun or appealing. .
Though i don't believe you would actually unsubscribe, its an unforunate truth that doing so would improve the game. You guys have been the architects of your own downfall. Low-sec is dead because you've made it a wasteland. The rewards for going there are nothing when compared to the massive risks. I think its one of, if not the biggest, reasons why high-sec players never make the natural move from high to low and null. From their perspective, certain death awaits, generally in the form of a gatecamp. A change to gate-guns, as well as improving low-sec resources, will give rise to more people in low-sec. More people, means more targets, means more isk. Literally a win win! People threating to unsubscribe are basicly saying "i don't know how to look for targets!"
exactly! well said. Its amazing how many are throwing their hands up pretending like they wont be able to find pvp anymore, taking things to extremes and desperately pretending like this is a huge buff to gate camping. Fortunately the devs are smarter than them.
Easymode pvp got taken away and the game got a little more challenging. A great change, F the crybabies. L2adapt like real pvpers, scrubs. |
Benjamin Eastwood
Air The Unthinkables
78
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 16:08:00 -
[399] - Quote
Boo hoo, now the pirate blobs have to work for their scraps. "Endless ISK, the sinews of war" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8922
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 16:13:00 -
[400] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Its amazing how many are throwing their hands up pretending like they wont be able to find pvp anymore, taking things to extremes and desperately pretending like this is a huge buff to gate camping. Explain how having interceptors will not be a huge buff to gate camping. Explain how not being able to engage fleet vs. fleet in the one spot where fleets meet will not reduce the amount of fights happening.
Quote:Fortunately the devs are smarter than them. Fortunately, they're smart enough to already starting to backpedal on this hugely counter-productive idea.
Benjamin Eastwood wrote:Boo hoo, now the pirate blobs have to work for their scraps. GÇŞand that's a good thing, why, exactly? Oh and by GÇŁworkGÇĄ I assume you mean GÇŁresort to gate campingGÇĄ, which seems quite disingenuousGÇŞ GÇŁIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇĄ
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1251
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 16:48:00 -
[401] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:Fortunately the devs are smarter than them. Fortunately, they're smart enough to already starting to backpedal on this hugely counter-productive idea. Hmm, let's see what will happen... it would be funny if instead of instapopping frigates, they just instapopped everything. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Sven Ragnaroeg
Full Contact
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 17:24:00 -
[402] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:/signed
Ps.: I have no problem spending my money on another Game CCP.
I support this statement, DON-¦T CHANGE THE SENTRY-¦S |
Pipa Porto
643
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 18:09:00 -
[403] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:Fortunately the devs are smarter than them. Fortunately, they're smart enough to already starting to backpedal on this hugely counter-productive idea. Hmm, let's see what will happen... it would be funny if instead of instapopping frigates, they just instapopped everything.
Give Sentry Guns AOE Doomsday. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
185
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 19:37:00 -
[404] - Quote
Kage Toshimado wrote: /signed
But then again, I unsubbed all of my accounts when unified inventory came out. I'm just counting down the remaining days. If this actually takes place... I feel for all of the low sec pirates.
Leave already
the fact you are telling us you are waiting for your time to run out and not just left already is a cry for attention to get what you want.
LEAVE
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya |
Bfoster
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 20:19:00 -
[405] - Quote
Signed..
This is the WRONG direction for low sec ccp.. Way wrong.. |
Nortel
The Imperial Fedaykin
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 20:37:00 -
[406] - Quote
SIGNED. NORTEL |
C Shot
Mira Holdings
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 20:38:00 -
[407] - Quote
/signed |
Lord jin
Mira Holdings
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 20:40:00 -
[408] - Quote
Signed. |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
436
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 20:47:00 -
[409] - Quote
I like the changes for gates bordering on high-sec.
However I also believe all the other gate guns should be removed. ie : low-sec to low-sec and low-sec to null remove them.
But if CCP wants to do this to all the gates, no sorry that is overboard.
Give and take CCP give and take. EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Rathnon Domitras
Hostile. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 23:53:00 -
[410] - Quote
/signed. |
|
Ponch Valdez
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 23:58:00 -
[411] - Quote
/signed.
+ 1 from BYDI |
Mutant Caldari
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 00:27:00 -
[412] - Quote
Read the OP and the 8 pages after it. Having 3 outlaw characters and a 4th in the making.... /signed |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
298
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 00:32:00 -
[413] - Quote
As long as I don't wake up married to a women about to drop a kid, or missing a kidney, then Signed. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
636
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 01:34:00 -
[414] - Quote
want to kill someone in lowsec? do it off a gate... now you will have to find the miners mining, the people running scan sites and missions ect. |
Zeddy
Yoyodyne corporation Absolute Darkness
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 01:42:00 -
[415] - Quote
/signed |
Verge Izaura
Free. Trade. Zone.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 01:45:00 -
[416] - Quote
/signed |
Boo Bo Nakrar
Skeletons of Society
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 01:46:00 -
[417] - Quote
/signed |
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 03:52:00 -
[418] - Quote
Golly, it's like you think that filling a region with pirates turns it into Somalia or something.
So did anyone actually watch the Crimewatch video, or are you just running with what someone else handed you & assuming that they told you the complete, unbiased truth entirely for your own benefit out of the kindness of their heart and not just so that you'd upvote them for their own personal gain? |
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
371
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 04:41:00 -
[419] - Quote
ugh i dunno |
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
371
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 04:42:00 -
[420] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote:/signed even though this doesn't really affect me Pipa Porto wrote:
"Suspect" is their new, wide reaching Crimewatch replacement for aggression flags.
The "Suspect" flag is pretty terrible for other reasons, but having crazy-strong sentry guns shooting you for looting the field or helping your friend who's been attacked while looting the field is adding extra terrible on top of the terrible that it brings to HS combat.
This. Given his recent track record of proposed changes, I wouldn't count on CCP Greyscale formulating a reasonable reply. His posts in threads about the crimewatch changes were awful. EDIT: To clarify, if either the proposed sentry changes or the suspect changes go through as currently planned, I will be unsubscribing. It's not that the changes affect what I do that much, but both of these changes make it abundantly clear which direction Greyscale/CCP are taking the game, and it is not the direction that I came to know and love over the past five years. Additionally, both of these are horrendous examples of "it isn't broken, let's break it." The fact that you are wasting serious development time on crap like this given the current state of game balance (and other proposed changes like the POS revamp that are much more important and have more support) absolutely blows my mind.
this |
|
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 06:08:00 -
[421] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Fortunately, they're smart enough to already starting to backpedal on this hugely counter-productive idea. Nice to hear that tbh. Even though I don't have relations with lowsec, you guys were fast to explain how shallow the idea is. Really, bringing people to lowsec should be done, but the idea of "suspect" flagging is just ridiculous.
I support the idea of bringing better exploration rewards to lowsec. People who do exploration aren't the same as typical L4 highsec mission runner, it's not uncommon for them to roam in losec (typically in something like Pilgrim, but still). It's completely doable to increase amount of people like that by making it viable to do lowsec gang exploration (making said gang legit PvP gang that is there for certain goal, not bad for free PvP environement lowsec is supposed to be) by maniplating rewards and other simple measures. At least, that's how I see it.
As it was said already, camps will go nowhere with those changes. Tackling frigs with ASB or something like that will still be able to do their job, and off-grid warps with F1 massive alpha and stuff like that is exactly why people would prefer lowsec to null - they don't like this style. But then this idea... Derp.
You know, when my toon will grow up, I want to have a choice of gameplay, not just hisec style vs null style (stay off from WHs please, dear game design geniuses out there).
Oh, almost forgot: /signed |
darkenspace
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 07:35:00 -
[422] - Quote
let me just say that if you patch out are fix any type of game play in eve might be a bad idea you have feed that type of player too long over the many years that eve has been out it is the only kind of player that you have left in game ganking camping easy pvp kills high skill vs low skill kind of too late to fix that uneven type of pvp might as well keep the game as it is real pvp like tribes mw3 has to do with reflex speed hand eye skill mmo type pvp is about getting the upper hand in a fight you can not fix mmo type pvp in any mmo . just keep as it is and make eve 2 that way poeple that like it the way it is can play the ones want a more wow type game can play the new one all are happy then |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
225
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 09:41:00 -
[423] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:want to kill someone in lowsec? do it off a gate... now you will have to find the miners mining, the people running scan sites and missions ect.
Spoken like someone who doesn't understand typical lowsec gameplay. |
Raeza
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 11:05:00 -
[424] - Quote
/signed
anyone who doesn't sign and is for the changes is either an idiot or knows nothing about this game and / or low sec.
|
RazorDreamz
Infestation Inc
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 11:56:00 -
[425] - Quote
/signed
Low sec is gimped enough already thanks to everyone from null just using jump clones and such to avoid it all together. |
Alara IonStorm
2913
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 12:44:00 -
[426] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:want to kill someone in lowsec? do it off a gate... now you will have to find the miners mining, the people running scan sites and missions ect. No you won't. This is the absolute biggest misunderstanding of this change. It doesn't stop gate camps from offing a couple of people, bring those mission ships through the gate and they are more likely to be grabbed by a Ceptor and have a pre-aligned just off grid fleet wipe them out. Or if a roaming gang finds them just bursts them down before the Sentries ramp up.
The gradual increase of DPS of Sentries instead kills larger groups who hang out under the guns for say a real fight not gankers popping targets. This intern makes it impossible to have a drawn out small gang fight under said guns.
It doesn't hurt ganking it hurts fleet fights for no apparent gain whatsoever. So why do it if it doesn't help the people your post trumpets and hurts the people who break up camps or run into each other roaming? |
Sung Lie
Crepuscular Paradox United
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 18:37:00 -
[427] - Quote
Carebear safari into lowsec shooting remaining and endangered species also known as pirates...nice. Perhaps I retrain for tour guide -.- |
Broadsyde
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 23:10:00 -
[428] - Quote
/SIGNED You don't adjust. You just dominate. |
Broadsyde
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 23:11:00 -
[429] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:want to kill someone in lowsec? do it off a gate... now you will have to find the miners mining, the people running scan sites and missions ect.
Obviously you don't pvp in lowsec You don't adjust. You just dominate. |
Oki Riverson
FLA5HY RED
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 23:45:00 -
[430] - Quote
I'm not signing this and I'm a pirate...Have been since a month into the game. I've flown with the original poster, and, frankly he's a skill-less gate camper (sorry Tara.) I actually think this should not only be implemented but taken further...The sooner the current low sec "play-style" of camping is changed, the better. It is utterly horrid, stale and boring. It's not "piracy" its just camping.
We need people into low sec to do other things, industry, exploration, missions, whatever tbh. Why? because we need to hunt them down properly and not just shoot their hauler in the face because the gate was camped for 3 hours. I'm not saying this will happen just by changing the way gate guns work, but it's a step in the right direction of pulling down that high sec player wall.
Oki |
|
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 00:11:00 -
[431] - Quote
Oki Riverson wrote:I'm not signing this and I'm a pirate...Have been since a month into the game. I've flown with the original poster, and, frankly he's a skill-less gate camper (sorry Tara.) I actually think this should not only be implemented but taken further...The sooner the current low sec "play-style" of camping is changed, the better. It is utterly horrid, stale and boring. It's not "piracy" its just camping.
We need people into low sec to do other things, industry, exploration, missions, whatever tbh. Why? because we need to hunt them down properly and not just shoot their hauler in the face because the gate was camped for 3 hours. I'm not saying this will happen just by changing the way gate guns work, but it's a step in the right direction of pulling down that high sec player wall.
Oki
I couldn't say something better. Death to trees !!! *Axe* *Chop, chop, chop...* You may understand what I'm talking about ;) |
Eddie Monaghan
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 07:08:00 -
[432] - Quote
/ Signed
I say this is BS. Most my play time in Eve has been in low sec. Most that time I've also been a Pirate. I enjoy it. As for camping? It passes time and can gain some decent Isk, but that's all it is for me. However, I DO love targets of opportunity and a hauler coming through a gate should not be safe in Low Sec. It's fine the way it is, why screw it up?
Oki's comment about no skill holds no water with me. I've only flown with Tara a handful of times and it was fun. I don't know about his skill in PvP, I haven't flown with him enough to. But then, WHO CARES? It's a GAME, it's MEANT to be FUN!
I don't mind losing ships due to my own mediocre PvP skills, but because CCP made it a PITA to have a good fight on a gate is just plain stupid.
- Lo they do call to me. They bid me take my place among them, in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
|
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
472
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 07:16:00 -
[433] - Quote
Eddie Monaghan wrote:
Oki's comment about no skill holds no water with me. I've only flown with Tara a handful of times and it was fun. I don't know about his skill in PvP, I haven't flown with him enough to. But then, WHO CARES? It's a GAME, it's MEANT to be FUN!
I don't mind losing ships due to my own mediocre PvP skills, but because CCP made it a PITA to have a good fight on a gate is just plain stupid.
Yes Just plain stupid. Thats how it is now. It makes no sense that you can commit criminal acts right in front of the authorities and get away with it.
You say The game is meant to be fun, for who? Everyone or just you.
The easiest way to look at is CCP made an Error when they set up gate guns as they are now and they are just re-balancing an old error. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
Pipa Porto
653
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 07:17:00 -
[434] - Quote
Just had a big fight on a gate that would not have been possible if the gate gun changes happened.
Tons of fun, lasted for quite a while, and it's all because Pro Chimera's gate camping erryday .
Was actually a 3 way fight. We killed off Chimera's allies pretty quick, then were waiting around for backup to kill it when another gang jumped in on us to try to kill it. So we were fighting the other gang with the Chimera kill as the prize. At the end, we drove off the other fleet and killed the Chimera.
With the Gate Gun changes, none of this would have been possible. First, the Chimera wouldn't be able to hang out on gate. Second, we wouldn't have been able to kill his support (we're roaming, so we're all GCC). Third, we wouldn't have been able to hang around holding the Chimera while waiting for backup. Fourth, we wouldn't have been able to fight the other gang at all. Finally, we wouldn't have been able to kill off the Chimera in the end. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Oki Riverson
FLA5HY RED
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 13:54:00 -
[435] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Just had a big fight on a gate that would not have been possible if the gate gun changes happened. Tons of fun, lasted for quite a while, and it's all because Pro Chimera's gate camping erryday . Was actually a 3 way fight. We killed off Chimera's allies pretty quick, then were waiting around for backup to kill it when another gang jumped in on us to try to kill it. So we were fighting the other gang with the Chimera kill as the prize. At the end, we drove off the other fleet and killed the Chimera. With the Gate Gun changes, none of this would have been possible. First, the Chimera wouldn't be able to hang out on gate. Second, we wouldn't have been able to kill his support (we're roaming, so we're all GCC). Third, we wouldn't have been able to hang around holding the Chimera while waiting for backup. Fourth, we wouldn't have been able to fight the other gang at all. Finally, we wouldn't have been able to kill off the Chimera in the end.
This sort of thing happens maybe...once a month (That's pushing it.) My corp had a similar experience with a Revelation about 3 weeks ago where the guys forced it to self-destruct on a gate; Anyway, This isn't everyday gameplay now is it? And that's the issue. |
Pipa Porto
654
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:36:00 -
[436] - Quote
Oki Riverson wrote:This sort of thing happens maybe...once a month (That's pushing it.) My corp had a similar experience with a Revelation about 3 weeks ago where the guys forced it to self-destruct on a gate; Anyway, This isn't everyday gameplay now is it? And that's the issue.
Fights on gates happen every day. Most of them take a lot longer than 5 minutes (except for the ganks that gate camps do). Usually, someone's going GCC on the gate during the fight.
So the Second reason the fight couldn't happen is the most important one. If you're GCC you won't be able to fight at all on a gate, you'll only be able to run fast ganks there (Arty Nados + a rotating wing of fast tackle who'll shed their GCC between victims). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 07:51:00 -
[437] - Quote
Oki Riverson wrote:I'm not signing this and I'm a pirate...Have been since a month into the game. I've flown with the original poster, and, frankly he's a skill-less gate camper (sorry Tara.) I actually think this should not only be implemented but taken further...The sooner the current low sec "play-style" of camping is changed, the better. It is utterly horrid, stale and boring. It's not "piracy" its just camping.
We need people into low sec to do other things, industry, exploration, missions, whatever tbh. Why? because we need to hunt them down properly and not just shoot their hauler in the face because the gate was camped for 3 hours. I'm not saying this will happen just by changing the way gate guns work, but it's a step in the right direction of pulling down that high sec player wall.
Oki
What are you sorry for? At least your opinion is an honest one just not valid. How many other irons in the fire did other people in FLASHY have besides Piracy? Quite a few to be honest. Whenever I'd log it would either be people doing something else thus can't roam or it was at odd times due to work. So why not snag a few easy things then head to sleep?
I'll admit my time in FLASHY although brief enlightened me to the plight of Low Sec. Unless you have dedicated people to bust some ass hardly anything will get done and people won't be motivated. Such was the issues with FLASHY. Well that and being on call 24/7 real life does come first right?
But I digress. I won't sit here and sling mud at you calling you unskilled (btw what is Eve now Call Of Duty?) and I won't bullshit my way out of anything. Yes camping was one of my main ways of racking up kills while in FLASHY but what did you expect?
Hell there were so few of us online at a given time it's about all people could do. Unless of course you wanted to run around in a solo frig or something of that nature. And if you asked others for a roam it was nothing but excuses or bad timing.
I will say though my time with Fusion has led to some GREAT ops, roams, etc and luckily showed me that low sec luckily isn't (quite) dead.
Now onto the issue at hand with why you think these changes good. Let me ask you how many decent fights have you had where such fights were off a gate? A random number perhaps? 35? 70?
My point being is that with these changes implemented that number will plummet to ZERO. Why? because no one can sustain 5 minutes of sentry aggression enough to kill a triaged carrier and no one would dare to risk it.
Instead you'll have more of these "skillless" gate camps with alpha Tornado's and Interceptor's catching anything that moves.
These changes Oki, will not only strangle any true fights to be had off gate they sure as hell do not provide an adequate solution to the traffic issues with Low Sec as a whole.
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 07:57:00 -
[438] - Quote
Eddie Monaghan wrote:/ Signed
I say this is BS. Most my play time in Eve has been in low sec. Most that time I've also been a Pirate. I enjoy it. As for camping? It passes time and can gain some decent Isk, but that's all it is for me. However, I DO love targets of opportunity and a hauler coming through a gate should not be safe in Low Sec. It's fine the way it is, why screw it up?
Oki's comment about no skill holds no water with me. I've only flown with Tara a handful of times and it was fun. I don't know about his skill in PvP, I haven't flown with him enough to. But then, WHO CARES? It's a GAME, it's MEANT to be FUN!
I don't mind losing ships due to my own mediocre PvP skills, but because CCP made it a PITA to have a good fight on a gate is just plain stupid.
I don't have any skill. I'm just a meat shield for Holy's Crusade against the universe... Do I have a basic knowledge of pvp combat? yes. Am I some red eyed egghead that would love to paint themselves as something of an "uber" player? Nope.
In the time I've played Eve I do however know one thing, You never stop learning and asking questions is the best way to improve your ability as a pilot. Not smack talk someone on a forum. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
124
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 08:37:00 -
[439] - Quote
+1, signed etc etc
I can think of at least 5 ways to game this system already. |
Oki Riverson
FLA5HY RED
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 08:45:00 -
[440] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Oki Riverson wrote:I'm not signing this and I'm a pirate...Have been since a month into the game. I've flown with the original poster, and, frankly he's a skill-less gate camper (sorry Tara.) I actually think this should not only be implemented but taken further...The sooner the current low sec "play-style" of camping is changed, the better. It is utterly horrid, stale and boring. It's not "piracy" its just camping.
We need people into low sec to do other things, industry, exploration, missions, whatever tbh. Why? because we need to hunt them down properly and not just shoot their hauler in the face because the gate was camped for 3 hours. I'm not saying this will happen just by changing the way gate guns work, but it's a step in the right direction of pulling down that high sec player wall.
Oki What are you sorry for? At least your opinion is an honest one just not valid. How many other irons in the fire did other people in FLASHY have besides Piracy? Quite a few to be honest. Whenever I'd log it would either be people doing something else thus can't roam or it was at odd times due to work. So why not snag a few easy things then head to sleep? I'll admit my time in FLASHY although brief enlightened me to the plight of Low Sec. Unless you have dedicated people to bust some ass hardly anything will get done and people won't be motivated. Such was the issues with FLASHY. Well that and being on call 24/7 real life does come first right? But I digress. I won't sit here and sling mud at you calling you unskilled (btw what is Eve now Call Of Duty?) and I won't bullshit my way out of anything. Yes camping was one of my main ways of racking up kills while in FLASHY but what did you expect? Hell there were so few of us online at a given time it's about all people could do. Unless of course you wanted to run around in a solo frig or something of that nature. And if you asked others for a roam it was nothing but excuses or bad timing. I will say though my time with Fusion has led to some GREAT ops, roams, etc and luckily showed me that low sec luckily isn't (quite) dead. Now onto the issue at hand with why you think these changes good. Let me ask you how many decent fights have you had where such fights were off a gate? A random number perhaps? 35? 70? My point being is that with these changes implemented that number will plummet to ZERO. Why? because no one can sustain 5 minutes of sentry aggression enough to kill a triaged carrier and no one would dare to risk it. Instead you'll have more of these "skillless" gate camps with alpha Tornado's and Interceptor's catching anything that moves. These changes Oki, will not only strangle any true fights to be had off gate they sure as hell do not provide an adequate solution to the traffic issues with Low Sec as a whole.
Wow I guess that struck a chord, Anyway, essentially what you are saying here is "I'm casual, I want easy kills and can't be bothered looking for them." What the f*ck gives you the right to an easy kill while the rest of the game suffers because of a half arsed weak punishment mechanic?
|
|
Hannibal Vexor
FLA5HY RED
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 12:06:00 -
[441] - Quote
first off although this character is known as hannibal vexor to current/former corpies im hattori
1 tara your **** at pvp the only way you would ever do anything in fla5hy was in a bs
2 havent read the changes dont care gc is a skill destroying social activity for when numbers are low and brain is switched off or not needed (tara you were one of our most consistent campers what does that say?)
3 oki unless sec changes are being implemented to the mechanic on gates that fight would have happened cos all involved parties were pirates(havent read changes not interested again)
4 tara your ****
5 from the little i do know this wont mean much difference to pirate life beyond freighters being a little safer because campers are neg sec people who bust camps will have more fun with pointing campers and letting sentries pop gcc campers and pirate/pvp corps who want to fight will just do it off gate which happens quite regular tbh
6 tara your ****
7 neg ten and a few other big pirate groups may have to rethink the way they play the game with the static gatecamps that never move
8 i quite liked tara btw and this isnt a personal attack just an assessment on his pvp skills in the game you can blame this on time constraints real life personal problems or whatever but end result is the same op is just a gatecamper who could never adjust to life in fast agile small gangs
if im wrong on the way things are gonna work flame away and f**k it who cares
|
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 12:20:00 -
[442] - Quote
No. No one likes pirates. -1 |
Lexmana
675
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 12:59:00 -
[443] - Quote
Anslo wrote:No. No one likes pirates. -1 I like pirates. In the game that is. They make it more fun and interesting. But if you don't like them they are much easier to deal with in highsec.
|
Halcyon Ingenium
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
160
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 13:17:00 -
[444] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: You clearly failed to read a later post in which I described the two primary methods of travel in Eve. As far as the interpretation of "suspect" that has yet to be defined in black and white by any CCP Dev since it is in the "tweaking" and "speculation" phase. So for now we'll assume the worst possible scenario until Dev's step up and flatly put something in their next minutes or something more concrete.
Also I find it rather ironic you blame JD ships for the "reason" to bypass Low Sec. In actuality JD (jump drive) ships have created more flexibility and ease of travel throughout New Eden. So you'd assume that with less of a burden more people would set up shop.
That clearly is not the case and JD ships are not the problem. BTW my day wouldn't be ruined. It would just turn into "Hurry! shoot the fish in the barrel before we're shot ourselves!" Online.
Lol, JD, no. No you got it all wrong, sorry.
As far as worst possible scenario (and still, who is "we"?), I'll keep doing the not ******** thing, which is waiting for something to actually happen and then take useful action, if any useful action is to be taken. I'll leave the scurrying and flailing to those who either are still new enough at life to not know how avoid wasting effort, or those who are incapable of learning such a skill.
They say that in learning the game Go, it is best to lose your first 50 games as soon as possible. This is because Go is complex, and the only way you will start to get an idea of strategy and play is by first sucking and failing as hard as you can. So...In EVE, it is best to get your first 50 deaths by combat as soon as possible. |
XxRTEKxX
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 13:34:00 -
[445] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Anslo wrote:No. No one likes pirates. -1 I like pirates. In the game that is. They make it more fun and interesting. But if you don't like them they are much easier to deal with in highsec.
I like Pirates the adult film. Jesse Jane and Jenaveve were smokin hot in that movie ;-) |
Kingston Black
Hostile. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 14:04:00 -
[446] - Quote
signed
best fights ive had in eve are where we find a large group camping and bait them, then escalate with carriers and dreads as they escalate. Ive had fights last an hour this way with carnage on both sides these changes would remove this gameplay as well as make lowsec gates hell with dramiel decloak tackle on every region gate ccp greyscale needs to play being a pirate before coming up with more lowsec ideas...
why not talk about the whole viceroy thingy that was discussed before where a pirate group who squats a system can gain a kind of mini ownership of it and some shines kinda like faction war lite?
TBH its takes balls or stupidity to camp gates as your painting a big fat comeatmebro sign on yourselves and every bored pirate group worth its salt within 10 jumps will probably make a bee line to you... |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 15:04:00 -
[447] - Quote
Oki Riverson wrote:
We need people into low sec to do other things, industry, exploration, missions, whatever tbh. Why? because we need to hunt them down properly and not just shoot their hauler in the face because the gate was camped for 3 hours. I'm not saying this will happen just by changing the way gate guns work, but it's a step in the right direction of pulling down that high sec player wall.
Oki
Well, at least you have things for people to do after making past the gate but why would they come to low for those activities. All of those are available in high sec under Concord protection.
When the docking timer was changed it made it damn near impossible to gank a transport at an undock. I didn't notice any change in the traffic at all. Mod lag caused by the server timing thing makes it hard as hell to make split second activations but that didn't increase small ship traffic at all. This change with no additions to attract people is a waste of time.
What is the next change in the right direction after making the gates safer? You need a maxed prober to find ships in missions? Once someone warps into a 5/10 it's considered claimed and only fleet members can enter? Support this to our own peril they aren't just going to feed us bears... |
Bommel McMurdoc
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 18:15:00 -
[448] - Quote
outlaws demanding righteousness!
(cerebellum explodes)
I always thought outlaws dun give a flyin' crap?! |
lag kills
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:58:00 -
[449] - Quote
why are there still people chiming into this thread without using their brains, thinking this is a good thing? so clueless.
you don't need to sit on a gate to camp it. you only need to be there when someone comes through and you can get off the gate again after the mere seconds it takes to blow the thing up. if you don't like camps, this will only make it easier to catch things for petty ganks. all it allows is petty ganks.
no real fights will be able to happen on gates. this is where real fights happen too, believe it or not. telling people to get off the gate and fight is so ignorant and naive, i'm amazed. finding someone stupid enough to get caught with their pants down doing something off the gate in low sec is not common. those people are in high sec, or even null. i look for those kills, i don't like camping, but people are scared shitless of low sec and know the risks and their heads are full of tales from their noob corps about gate camps being EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME. you think more people will start coming here when they learn how much more at risk their transport ships and cloaky T3s are to being ganked?
if you are in a roaming gang and you scout another roaming gang, would you not want to hide your numbers so they don't get spooked [even if it's even numbers they get spooked] and catch them by surprise, while guaranteeing they'll be in point range all at the same time? well, guess what? the best place to do that is at a gate whether you're in a high sec war, low sec or null. do you think we should just sit at a planet like dumbasses, giving up a tactical advantage, letting people scout us, gather an overwhelming force and/or hot drop us? the only way to have any semblance of a 'fair fight' is for two groups to happen upon each other at a gate without any prior intel, otherwise one gang gets intel on the numbers of the other, they either bring a greater force to secure victory with minimal losses, or they'll avoid it and this isn't exclusive to low sec. tired of complaining about gate camps? get some bait, get some friends and stomp them. it's easy, but i guess it's hard to find reliable friends when you're a socially inept hermit, plinking away at level 4s in high sec.
anyone with experience in low sec should know these things already. i know the eve population is chock-full of ********, ignorant, misinformed grumpy old men, but damn, it's starting to get a little out of hand. you need to learn how this game works before you start thinking you know what's wrong with it. and that goes for greyscale too. |
Hannibal Vexor
FLA5HY RED
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:17:00 -
[450] - Quote
lag kills wrote:why are there still people chiming into this thread without using their brains, thinking this is a good thing? so clueless.
you don't need to sit on a gate to camp it. you only need to be there when someone comes through and you can get off the gate again after the mere seconds it takes to blow the thing up. if you don't like camps, this will only make it easier to catch things for petty ganks. all it allows is petty ganks.
no real fights will be able to happen on gates. this is where real fights happen too, believe it or not. telling people to get off the gate and fight is so ignorant and naive, i'm amazed. finding someone stupid enough to get caught with their pants down doing something off the gate in low sec is not common. those people are in high sec, or even null. i look for those kills, i don't like camping, but people are scared shitless of low sec and know the risks and their heads are full of tales from their noob corps about gate camps being EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME. you think more people will start coming here when they learn how much more at risk their transport ships and cloaky T3s are to being ganked?
if you are in a roaming gang and you scout another roaming gang, would you not want to hide your numbers so they don't get spooked [even if it's even numbers they get spooked] and catch them by surprise, while guaranteeing they'll be in point range all at the same time? well, guess what? the best place to do that is at a gate whether you're in a high sec war, low sec or null. do you think we should just sit at a planet like dumbasses, giving up a tactical advantage, letting people scout us, gather an overwhelming force and/or hot drop us? the only way to have any semblance of a 'fair fight' is for two groups to happen upon each other at a gate without any prior intel, otherwise one gang gets intel on the numbers of the other, they either bring a greater force to secure victory with minimal losses, or they'll avoid it and this isn't exclusive to low sec. tired of complaining about gate camps? get some bait, get some friends and stomp them. it's easy, but i guess it's hard to find reliable friends when you're a socially inept hermit, plinking away at level 4s in high sec.
anyone with experience in low sec should know these things already. i know the eve population is chock-full of ********, ignorant, misinformed grumpy old men, but damn, it's starting to get a little out of hand. you need to learn how this game works before you start thinking you know what's wrong with it. and that goes for greyscale too.
what a complete load of **** |
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:18:00 -
[451] - Quote
Oki Riverson wrote:Tara Read wrote:Oki Riverson wrote:I'm not signing this and I'm a pirate...Have been since a month into the game. I've flown with the original poster, and, frankly he's a skill-less gate camper (sorry Tara.) I actually think this should not only be implemented but taken further...The sooner the current low sec "play-style" of camping is changed, the better. It is utterly horrid, stale and boring. It's not "piracy" its just camping.
We need people into low sec to do other things, industry, exploration, missions, whatever tbh. Why? because we need to hunt them down properly and not just shoot their hauler in the face because the gate was camped for 3 hours. I'm not saying this will happen just by changing the way gate guns work, but it's a step in the right direction of pulling down that high sec player wall.
Oki What are you sorry for? At least your opinion is an honest one just not valid. How many other irons in the fire did other people in FLASHY have besides Piracy? Quite a few to be honest. Whenever I'd log it would either be people doing something else thus can't roam or it was at odd times due to work. So why not snag a few easy things then head to sleep? I'll admit my time in FLASHY although brief enlightened me to the plight of Low Sec. Unless you have dedicated people to bust some ass hardly anything will get done and people won't be motivated. Such was the issues with FLASHY. Well that and being on call 24/7 real life does come first right? But I digress. I won't sit here and sling mud at you calling you unskilled (btw what is Eve now Call Of Duty?) and I won't bullshit my way out of anything. Yes camping was one of my main ways of racking up kills while in FLASHY but what did you expect? Hell there were so few of us online at a given time it's about all people could do. Unless of course you wanted to run around in a solo frig or something of that nature. And if you asked others for a roam it was nothing but excuses or bad timing. I will say though my time with Fusion has led to some GREAT ops, roams, etc and luckily showed me that low sec luckily isn't (quite) dead. Now onto the issue at hand with why you think these changes good. Let me ask you how many decent fights have you had where such fights were off a gate? A random number perhaps? 35? 70? My point being is that with these changes implemented that number will plummet to ZERO. Why? because no one can sustain 5 minutes of sentry aggression enough to kill a triaged carrier and no one would dare to risk it. Instead you'll have more of these "skillless" gate camps with alpha Tornado's and Interceptor's catching anything that moves. These changes Oki, will not only strangle any true fights to be had off gate they sure as hell do not provide an adequate solution to the traffic issues with Low Sec as a whole. Wow I guess that struck a chord, Anyway, essentially what you are saying here is "I'm casual, I want easy kills and can't be bothered looking for them." What the f*ck gives you the right to an easy kill while the rest of the game suffers because of a half arsed weak punishment mechanic?
I never stated anyone deserves "easy kills" so don't try to twist things. I'm saying it will be even easier especially if Interceptors can tackle off gates. Or did you forget that little tidbit? |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:28:00 -
[452] - Quote
Hannibal Vexor wrote:first off although this character is known as hannibal vexor to current/former corpies im hattori
1 tara your **** at pvp the only way you would ever do anything in fla5hy was in a bs
2 havent read the changes dont care gc is a skill destroying social activity for when numbers are low and brain is switched off or not needed (tara you were one of our most consistent campers what does that say?)
3 oki unless sec changes are being implemented to the mechanic on gates that fight would have happened cos all involved parties were pirates(havent read changes not interested again)
4 tara your ****
5 from the little i do know this wont mean much difference to pirate life beyond freighters being a little safer because campers are neg sec people who bust camps will have more fun with pointing campers and letting sentries pop gcc campers and pirate/pvp corps who want to fight will just do it off gate which happens quite regular tbh
6 tara your ****
7 neg ten and a few other big pirate groups may have to rethink the way they play the game with the static gatecamps that never move
8 i quite liked tara btw and this isnt a personal attack just an assessment on his pvp skills in the game you can blame this on time constraints real life personal problems or whatever but end result is the same op is just a gatecamper who could never adjust to life in fast agile small gangs
if im wrong on the way things are gonna work flame away and f**k it who cares
EDIT: beyond gate camping what does this affect? nothing the recent fw changes and the ship classes that it brings to various sites and plexes means there will always be fights upto and including dreads attacking hubs for the people with balls enough to attack em good pvp groups will still get more than their fair share of fights and kills just not on gates all this really does is move the battleground to fw areas , badgers and sub bs ships will still melt under the perennial campers that never learn
1. I flew Drakes and Canes multiple times. Need further proof? Check battleclinic.
2. It says what I already pointed out in an earlier post. That unless there were adequate people roams never took place. Stop trying to turn this thread into something about me. You already stated you didn't even read the changes in mechanics.
3. So you aren't interested in reading changes yet make 8 bullet points criticizing those against them?
4. Uhuh.
5. Unless of course said engagements happen on a gate. Unpredictability is a factor in Eve. Like it or not that is what keeps things interesting. Pre conditioned fights? May as well have WoW arenas in Eve as well...
6. Uhuh.
7. I don't know much about them yet if they do have such "big" alliances why not roam and have fun?
8. Your kidding right? I think I handle myself quite well in small gang warfare as my records with Fusion should shed some light on things. If you really think "camping" is my forte you are sadly mistaken.
I've partaken in OPs flying capitals, POS bashes, small gang, large gang, roams, scams, scouting etc. I even tried my hand in null combat and found it dull so I went back to low sec...
Don't try to blame FLASHY's stagnation on the majority of my kills being from camps. If anything this should show you that maybe some fresh blood and more activity is needed?
Funny. I never have these issues with Fusion...
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:32:00 -
[453] - Quote
And before I forget here is my record with Fusion. But that's right I'm Sh*# at small gang warfare correct?
http://evefusion.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=1599839901&view=recent |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
630
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:36:00 -
[454] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:But that's right I'm Sh*# at small gang warfare correct?
The first wise thing you've said in this thread. brb |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:37:00 -
[455] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Tara Read wrote:But that's right I'm Sh*# at small gang warfare correct? The first wise thing you've said in this thread.
I'm sure. |
Holy8th
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:51:00 -
[456] - Quote
Hannibal Vexor wrote:first off although this character is known as hannibal vexor to current/former corpies im hattori
1 tara your **** at pvp the only way you would ever do anything in fla5hy was in a bs
2 havent read the changes dont care gc is a skill destroying social activity for when numbers are low and brain is switched off or not needed (tara you were one of our most consistent campers what does that say?)
3 oki unless sec changes are being implemented to the mechanic on gates that fight would have happened cos all involved parties were pirates(havent read changes not interested again)
4 tara your ****
5 from the little i do know this wont mean much difference to pirate life beyond freighters being a little safer because campers are neg sec people who bust camps will have more fun with pointing campers and letting sentries pop gcc campers and pirate/pvp corps who want to fight will just do it off gate which happens quite regular tbh
6 tara your ****
7 neg ten and a few other big pirate groups may have to rethink the way they play the game with the static gatecamps that never move
8 i quite liked tara btw and this isnt a personal attack just an assessment on his pvp skills in the game you can blame this on time constraints real life personal problems or whatever but end result is the same op is just a gatecamper who could never adjust to life in fast agile small gangs
if im wrong on the way things are gonna work flame away and f**k it who cares
EDIT: beyond gate camping what does this affect? nothing the recent fw changes and the ship classes that it brings to various sites and plexes means there will always be fights upto and including dreads attacking hubs for the people with balls enough to attack em good pvp groups will still get more than their fair share of fights and kills just not on gates all this really does is move the battleground to fw areas , badgers and sub bs ships will still melt under the perennial campers that never learn
Awww thats cute, someone with a **** pvp record calling tara **** at pvp.
Taras http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=4006
Hannibals http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=190401
Seriously, get a few more kills under your belt before you start calling someone **** at pvp. You havent even broken 200 kills. Pathetic. |
Xenomorphea
Black Rise Angels
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 23:18:00 -
[457] - Quote
/signed
Low Sec is INTENDED as dangerous place to be in and fly through. Sentries already give a good advantage to anti-pirates when fighting pirates at gates or station. They also severely limit the type of ships pirates and outlaws can use in combat near gates or stations (basically, anything sub-BC or sub-HAC tank cannot be used efficiently). Making sentries untankable even by a triage carrier is f***ing ridiculous. CCP Greyscale, honestly, do you even play this game?
I remember the times where high sec police could be tanked for a while (and before that, even CONCORD...), provided you had a kickass ship or enough support ... that was fun, and more in line with the "sandbox" principle of EVE than the current "dumbing down", "noob friendly", "WOW-ish" approach.
Also, if sentries would simply start shooting a player because of his/her negative sec status ... well, you would force all pirates and outlaws"out of Low-Sec, obviously. Which is SO stupid, as Low sec is EXACTLY where they are supposed to live in!
Some of those players might move to 0,0, some might unsubscirbe. Either way, the population in Low Sec would likely halve. Great work, CCP.
Cheers,
-Xeno |
Bommel McMurdoc
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 23:19:00 -
[458] - Quote
just to get back on track.....
Correct me if i'm wrong please, but didn't a dev or a GM mention that ganking wasn't intended to be profitable? |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 01:45:00 -
[459] - Quote
Bommel McMurdoc wrote:pardon on me on my last message (the one i just deleted) i was half joking, it is low sec, people should fight against each other. However, Low sec is still enforced by some "rules" or laws whatever you want to call it. The gate guns are that.... I don't think CCP had it in mind for the gates to be a shooting gallery.
which brings me to another point, I'm quite concerned... why wasn't I told in the game description or the game introduction tutorials that High Sec was where you learn how to play the game and low sec was where you learn how to sit around for a while and pick off players at a stargate, and that null was complete anarchy and completely player controlled.
I always thought high sec was supposed to prepare you for what lies beyond the security of concord and faction police, so that I could use the skills I learned in high sec, to take the next step in low security systems and then the ultimate step was to fight for resources and space bounty in null. Guess I got it all wrong, I'm really supposed to sit around and shoot freighters!
I'll have to slightly correct you on a couple points. Low Sec is about truly lawless space. Not about "picking off" players on a Stargate. Back in early 2005-2007 Low Sec had some brilliant and ruthless gangs like the Black Rabbits and M00.
Low Sec was an entirely different dynamic (and a lot more ruthless than it is now) simply because the environment and the game play of Eve was a LOT more difficult than it is today.
Not only that but Low Sec used to be a place to turn a pretty good profit if not just on ransoms. If done correctly, you could make quite a pretty bit.
Now it's different. You have myself and (other) people debating simply what may or may not be best for Low Sec at this time. They see the Sentry changes as a carrot to dangle in front of Carebears and the like saying "We'll protect you come here!" thus gambling on a mechanic to provide more traffic.
The only issue(s) are that this mechanic doesn't provide more content for those players and detracts the content in which Low Sec is known for. Good combat.
So it's actually not only a risk to implement this change in hopes it will make low sec populations high it also hinders the biggest draw to low sec by a lot of people anyways.
Onto null sec. Null Sec is NOT "player" controlled. Oh sure these people may think they control Null Sec because their Alliance has a stamp in the upper left hand corner but that's simply not true. It's controlled by those who have the roles and decision making ability within those entities that truly control Null Sec.
Not the players. Also might I point out that 1100 man fights with 30% time dilation is not the "ultimate" form of Eve combat in my eyes. Which is why changes likes these effect a lot of us who are voicing our opinions. |
Bommel McMurdoc
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 02:26:00 -
[460] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: long block corrections towards me.....
okay, if low sec is "truly lawless" why do you get security status hits and consequences such as retaliatory attacks from station/gate guns?
I respect your thoughts regardingf null sec, but nothing really is regulated out there except by the players (corporations) that "control" that space.
the above points, notwithstanding, I'll buy the "ransom" part, that's pirating and certainly should be a part of the low sec community, if anything, it prepares and teaches you how to deal with the "ultimate next step" (null sec.) the part i'm not really "ooogoo gaga" about is spending all my time waiting at gates and spending hours on end in roams just to kill a feeble target. After a while it seems kind of pointless, no? I'd imagine all the pvp, as goons have done to high sec, was to tip the balances on trade and manufacturing resources. The whole gate camping thing has given me the whole "hee hee I took my daddy's car keys and went for a joy ride." point of view.
I've mentioned before, pvp is a part of the game, there's no arguing that, but there's also bigger rocks, better complex's, planets, anomolies, etc etc out in null sec that i would consider "the ultimate step." |
|
Hannibal Vexor
FLA5HY RED
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 10:04:00 -
[461] - Quote
Holy8th wrote:Hannibal Vexor wrote:first off although this character is known as hannibal vexor to current/former corpies im hattori
1 tara your **** at pvp the only way you would ever do anything in fla5hy was in a bs
2 havent read the changes dont care gc is a skill destroying social activity for when numbers are low and brain is switched off or not needed (tara you were one of our most consistent campers what does that say?)
3 oki unless sec changes are being implemented to the mechanic on gates that fight would have happened cos all involved parties were pirates(havent read changes not interested again)
4 tara your ****
5 from the little i do know this wont mean much difference to pirate life beyond freighters being a little safer because campers are neg sec people who bust camps will have more fun with pointing campers and letting sentries pop gcc campers and pirate/pvp corps who want to fight will just do it off gate which happens quite regular tbh
6 tara your ****
7 neg ten and a few other big pirate groups may have to rethink the way they play the game with the static gatecamps that never move
8 i quite liked tara btw and this isnt a personal attack just an assessment on his pvp skills in the game you can blame this on time constraints real life personal problems or whatever but end result is the same op is just a gatecamper who could never adjust to life in fast agile small gangs
if im wrong on the way things are gonna work flame away and f**k it who cares
EDIT: beyond gate camping what does this affect? nothing the recent fw changes and the ship classes that it brings to various sites and plexes means there will always be fights upto and including dreads attacking hubs for the people with balls enough to attack em good pvp groups will still get more than their fair share of fights and kills just not on gates all this really does is move the battleground to fw areas , badgers and sub bs ships will still melt under the perennial campers that never learn Awww thats cute, someone with a **** pvp record calling tara **** at pvp. Taras http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=4006Hannibals http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=190401Seriously, get a few more kills under your belt before you start calling someone **** at pvp. You havent even broken 200 kills. Pathetic.
at the top of my post you will notice my corpies refer to me as hattori now if you wanna really do a **** poor measurement of pvp record on lame ass kb stats please do it on a toon i used for a period of time , hattori yasunaga and irtehazn being the 2 main pvp toons i had in fa5hy please feel free to trawl through bc and manually count up kills and losses then compare em to taras you may even include the 6-9 month period where ivee not played the game |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 19:27:00 -
[462] - Quote
Hannibal Vexor wrote:Holy8th wrote:Hannibal Vexor wrote:first off although this character is known as hannibal vexor to current/former corpies im hattori
1 tara your **** at pvp the only way you would ever do anything in fla5hy was in a bs
2 havent read the changes dont care gc is a skill destroying social activity for when numbers are low and brain is switched off or not needed (tara you were one of our most consistent campers what does that say?)
3 oki unless sec changes are being implemented to the mechanic on gates that fight would have happened cos all involved parties were pirates(havent read changes not interested again)
4 tara your ****
5 from the little i do know this wont mean much difference to pirate life beyond freighters being a little safer because campers are neg sec people who bust camps will have more fun with pointing campers and letting sentries pop gcc campers and pirate/pvp corps who want to fight will just do it off gate which happens quite regular tbh
6 tara your ****
7 neg ten and a few other big pirate groups may have to rethink the way they play the game with the static gatecamps that never move
8 i quite liked tara btw and this isnt a personal attack just an assessment on his pvp skills in the game you can blame this on time constraints real life personal problems or whatever but end result is the same op is just a gatecamper who could never adjust to life in fast agile small gangs
if im wrong on the way things are gonna work flame away and f**k it who cares
EDIT: beyond gate camping what does this affect? nothing the recent fw changes and the ship classes that it brings to various sites and plexes means there will always be fights upto and including dreads attacking hubs for the people with balls enough to attack em good pvp groups will still get more than their fair share of fights and kills just not on gates all this really does is move the battleground to fw areas , badgers and sub bs ships will still melt under the perennial campers that never learn Awww thats cute, someone with a **** pvp record calling tara **** at pvp. Taras http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=4006Hannibals http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=190401Seriously, get a few more kills under your belt before you start calling someone **** at pvp. You havent even broken 200 kills. Pathetic. at the top of my post you will notice my corpies refer to me as hattori now if you wanna really do a **** poor measurement of pvp record on lame ass kb stats please do it on a toon i used for a period of time , hattori yasunaga and irtehazn being the 2 main pvp toons i had in fa5hy please feel free to trawl through bc and manually count up kills and losses then compare em to taras you may even include the 6-9 month period where ivee not played the game
Yet that is not entirely accurate since you sold that toon to someone now in Goonswarm. How do I know this? Because I originally tried to get in touch with you to say hello and he told me. Funny how peoples attitudes change on forums over epeen and who is more "skilled".
Last time I checked Eve to me was about playing with good people in a tight knit group and having fun. Piracy in its truest form is small close groups. You relying on that person next to you or vise versa is what makes Eve imo fun and worthwhile.
But by all means continue this bs and derailing the thread just to talk smack instead of forming an informed opinion of why these changes are positive in any way. If anything they are counter productive to the type of fighting you want to eliminate off gate.
|
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2290
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 19:30:00 -
[463] - Quote
Bommel McMurdoc wrote:okay, if low sec is "truly lawless" why do you get security status hits and consequences such as retaliatory attacks from station/gate guns? There's a case to be made that they should remove sec status hits in lowsec.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝The daily saga of one man's quest to bring civilization to highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
780
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 20:03:00 -
[464] - Quote
The sentry gun changes are pretty bad recommendations. Instead of more disruptive behavior, I was hoping for more generous behavior in promoting different types of setups on gates and discouraging some of the more obnoxious behavior that does arrive from perma camps.
The arrangement is basically an idea formed in an ivory tower. "We want Triage Carriers to die at 4.5minutes", Who the hell puts Triage carriers on low sec gates like that? They didn't before, and they sure as hell aren't gonna even consider it when you give them a "Prepare to die button" on it.
Escalating DPS on gates should be targeted at Supercaps and perhaps after the 15 minute mark of sitting on a gate for logistics chains it becomes "Pepare to Die" to discourage the non-stop perma-camping.
However, I prefer these landmarks of Piracy, scum and villainy retain their personality. These are the things that make EVE unique. Making Low Sec Less scary isn't gonna bring in the population. And even if it does, it just means they're gonna die even more absurd deaths when they think they are "Safe" when they aren't. What discourages people from low sec is Sec Status Loss and the inability to go back into empire space for having an aggressive attitude. Fix the Sec Status system so that it promotes low sec activities and the low sec options will open up.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Kambiri Zoltana
the united Negative Ten.
158
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 20:13:00 -
[465] - Quote
Pirates should be given a bonus because of their niche gameplay style.
Pirates are already nerfed, they have to fit 300 dps tanks, cant use frigates interceptors and assault frigates, cant use speed setups.
I like to live in lowsec because nullsec just doens't appeal to me. Lowsec reminds me in a way of the old days.
I may be from a gatecamper corp. But the truth is almost ALL non wardec fights happen on gates and stations in lowsec, some at POS's.
Its easy for me, I quit eve when they pull this through in its current state. |
Hannibal Vexor
FLA5HY RED
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 20:15:00 -
[466] - Quote
sorry tara let me clarify for your freind : if you wanna do a comparison of irrelevant stats do it on either of the 2 main pvp toons i had up until the point where either left fla5hy red
wasnt meant to imply i still own the toon but my bad |
Maximillian Dragonard
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
229
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:38:00 -
[467] - Quote
/signed
And for those that think this will end low sec gate camping, all I can say is say hello to the alpha fleets again. All it would effectively do is eliminate the real fights that occur on low sec gates. THAT is the most fun to be had in low sec imho. Reactivated in response to the change in direction.....-á |
Geertruida Zelle
Quantum Wake The Fendahlian Collective
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 14:20:00 -
[468] - Quote
tl;dr thread, but
Greyscale, Why fix something that isn't really broke? Haven't you got better things to do?
If someone wants to drop a carrier on a gate, GOOD. If you can't take it on, you have plenty of time to warp out when you see the cyno go up, but moreover, its exposed, it can't play station games and dock up when about to die and someone can come along and whelp it. even the noobs in the Uni
As for small ships, the balance is right as it is. If you want go GCC and tackle small stuff on gates, then you can bring a Recon, or a sebo'd cruiser and some logi. Other wise you can get around low-sec in your frigate as long as you ain't dumb. Solo-roamers who want fights just do it at belts and POCO's
With these changes, no one will drop a carrier on a gate, preventing opportunities for nice juicy carrier kills, and low-sec traffic will drop - most of it the crying pubbies you think you're trying to help - because the frigate dash will be too risky for them.
You pushed Incarna trying to make Eve fit your aspirations for WOD, and nearly lost both. Now you're trying to wowify eve to fit the profile of potential Dust-ers. Don't you ever learn?
|
Mallak Azaria
554
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 14:37:00 -
[469] - Quote
/signed
I don't hang out in lowsec all that much, but I do travel through it on a regular basis. These changes appear to be aimed at gatecamps to make it easier for random travelers to pass through unhindered. The fact is that most lowsec fights happen on gates & these changes would end that aspect of the game. Half the fun of lowsec travel is doing a little research on the available routes you can take & having an idea of where a gatecamp may be, or using a ship that is tailored to getting through relatively safely.
CCP Greyscale, do you even play this game anymore? Because if these changes to go through... Well lets just say that MWO is a pretty cool game. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Geertruida Zelle
Quantum Wake The Fendahlian Collective
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 14:44:00 -
[470] - Quote
Oki Riverson wrote:I'm not signing this and I'm a pirate...Have been since a month into the game. I've flown with the original poster, and, frankly he's a skill-less gate camper (sorry Tara.) I actually think this should not only be implemented but taken further...The sooner the current low sec "play-style" of camping is changed, the better. It is utterly horrid, stale and boring. It's not "piracy" its just camping.
We need people into low sec to do other things, industry, exploration, missions, whatever tbh. Why? because we need to hunt them down properly and not just shoot their hauler in the face because the gate was camped for 3 hours. I'm not saying this will happen just by changing the way gate guns work, but it's a step in the right direction of pulling down that high sec player wall.
Oki
You don't really know how this game works do you?
These changes will cut low-sec pve and increase your "high sec player wall" as it it make it more difficult for small stuff travelling through low sec - all them carebears in frigs shifting skill books and BP's for example.
Most gate camps stay out of Gate gun range at a close safe and warp in when their eyes spot a target landing on the other side of the gate. Now they can have an inty sitting on the gate that won't insta-die when it puts a tackle in. Its made it even easier for them.
Where else do you "Hunt" a hauler. While he is sightseeing at a belt? Even if your logic is correct, you've just moved the gate camp to a station camp.
Where you a successful pirate?
|
|
Bommel McMurdoc
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:24:00 -
[471] - Quote
station camp? I thought the stations also have guns. unless the gateguns are completely different from the guns at the stations. I never took the time to put the guns under a microscope.
can someone please verify for me that the guns are different at stations? =) |
ShadowNeo29
TunDraGon
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 03:33:00 -
[472] - Quote
Bommel McMurdoc wrote:station camp? I thought the stations also have guns. unless the gateguns are completely different from the guns at the stations. I never took the time to put the guns under a microscope.
can someone please verify for me that the guns are different at stations? =)
same guns.
I have other idea, let's concord pop in low sec ... police too ... and kill every things unders -5 ss. up custom HP to 500M.
after uped mining ships HPs, up hauller HP, increase resists and guns able.
maybe all players skills for mining now =D, it's the best job in eve now.
CCP need to find new modules for new fit concept.
They actually thing about protect players ... if you want protection, stay in high sec systems, your mining ships have great amount of HP now. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
134
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 03:54:00 -
[473] - Quote
Hannibal Vexor wrote:sorry tara let me clarify for your freind : if you wanna do a comparison of irrelevant stats do it on either of the 2 main pvp toons i had up until the point where either left fla5hy red
wasnt meant to imply i still own the toon but my bad
That's fine just stop insulting others over a damned video game. It's seriously making me sad considering the good fights we DID have in FLASHY. |
Ultimate Gunpower
Knysna Grim Reapers Absolute Darkness
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 11:01:00 -
[474] - Quote
I must agree, I am not in favour of this change at all. Depending on how this plays out I may unsubscribe my accounts too :( |
MakStar FreeMasons
Free Masons Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 11:06:00 -
[475] - Quote
As a care bear I am against this change too... Sentry gun mechnic works fine as is, dont change it if aint broken...All we need now is the interceptors on gate or for the pirates not to want to engage something bigger because of the sentry guns. CCP dont do it!!! |
KristinaGiraffe
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 11:26:00 -
[476] - Quote
/signed |
Amymuffmuff
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 11:32:00 -
[477] - Quote
/signed. i'd very much like to lose my triage carrier in actual fights due to the enemy dropping dreads or something and not just because im flashy and the sentries are shooting me Iron Oxide. 2IC & Diplomat Minmatar Milita KB & TS Lead Admin Queen of the Channel Operators Amarr Surplus Equipment Manager-á |
Janus Varg
Smoke Jaguars
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 12:10:00 -
[478] - Quote
I'm not going to stay subscribed to a game that keeps bouncing between really bad decisions, and making up for really bad decisions. Just putting that out there. |
Il Reverendo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:13:00 -
[479] - Quote
Awesome, another utterly horrible idea about to forced upon us for no good reason. |
Lennox Dantes
Fleshbag Mauraders
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:23:00 -
[480] - Quote
With the mining barge's ore bay sizes and EHP increases, with the gate gun mechanics being "fixed"... Eve is going down the NO NO path of every MMO before it that has failed. I realize this is all many of you have so you will defend CCP to the hilt, but I can assure you that attitude is only making matters worse.
The sooner we start getting CCPs dirty hands off our game, the sooner we will save it from oblivion. IF CCP want to segregate the carebears from the PvPers and completely demolish our "Sandbox" experience, they might as well just make two servers so I don't have to witness this sin everytime I D-Scan a system.
No low sec will be a friendly little howdy-doodie pass through instead of a scary place for all those greedy ratters and haulers on their way to pickup expensive goods. Oh joy! A sandbox with a gigantic safety net for all those cyber-industrialists... Making all that fake money!
Thanks for nothing CCP. You are just like all the rest. I guess no good thing can last forever. |
|
CoLe Blackblood
the united Negative Ten.
41
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 15:56:00 -
[481] - Quote
Rest assured we won't see any more or less traffic to low-sec because there will be no reciprocal incentive to go there. The belts will continue to be empty because there is no reason to mine there. The gates will continue to have camps because pirates just adapt, no matter how crappy the change. But there will still be nothing to get from low-sec that you cannot get in high.
The bears will say that it's the pirate's fault for making lowsec a wasteland, but it's CCP's fault for not coming up with a proper balance as the pirate is the natural balance to the carebear in this game. You'd never have Luke without Darth or it'd be a mighty stale world. So keep on driving the pirates out and watch the balance shift to BORING. |
Belinik
TunDraGon
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 16:13:00 -
[482] - Quote
Signed.
CCP needs to think long and hard before making this move, because quite a few players will move to null but the other half will just plainly quit, since pirating is what they have known for years |
Zaratul
TunDraGon
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 16:21:00 -
[483] - Quote
/signed
WTF CCP y not just take low sec out completely |
Lugia3
Shydow Imperium
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 16:26:00 -
[484] - Quote
/signed
So now we get CONCORDed if we steal from a wreck or tip some carebears jetcan, as while as not being able to travel through low?
Remove Greyscale! Will sell wallet space for ISK. |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:09:00 -
[485] - Quote
"Aleks and CCP Greyscale briefly discuss community response to these changes, Greyscale acknowledges that the changes to "suspect" flagging would upset some players, particularly can-flippers."
Let's not forget this gem. You know all those can flippers that aren't looking for "real" pvp and are going to be terribly furious about a "flag" that acts as though you just can flipped all of EvE. Yep, no holes in that one look at all the threads from the flippers about how bad that will be. Let's rename him CCP Clueless and the winter update Arson. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:20:00 -
[486] - Quote
Personally I'm glad CCP is making moves so that EVE can realize its potential. Piracy in EVE is currently way too easy and devoid of player skill. Perhaps now that people can't just sit on gates for easymode kills for hours on end, real pvpers might not think EVE pvp is such a skilless joke. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:37:00 -
[487] - Quote
Homo Jesus wrote:. You know all those can flippers that aren't looking for "real" pvp and are going to be terribly furious about a "flag" that acts as though you just can flipped all of EvE. Yep, no holes in that one look at all the threads from the flippers about how bad that will be. Let's rename him CCP Clueless and the winter update Arson.
mm ganker tears, so delicious.
Oh-no! poor greifers will have to take a risk when flipping a can of a solo miner? Better bawl all over the forums now about how EVE pvp is ruined forever. |
Pipa Porto
762
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:43:00 -
[488] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:. You know all those can flippers that aren't looking for "real" pvp and are going to be terribly furious about a "flag" that acts as though you just can flipped all of EvE. Yep, no holes in that one look at all the threads from the flippers about how bad that will be. Let's rename him CCP Clueless and the winter update Arson. mm ganker tears, so delicious. Oh-no! poor greifers will have to take a risk when flipping a can of a solo miner? Better bawl all over the forums now about how EVE pvp is ruined forever.
HS PVP is available in 3 forms. Can Flipping. Wardecs. Suicide Ganks.
Wardecs are broken. This will break Can Flipping. So all that's left is Suicide Ganks. And since Ganking Freighters will be effectively impossible to make profitable (your looting freighter will be globally flagged, thus dead), Guess what's gonna increase in frequency.
Somehow, I think the Solo miner (why isn't he using a Mack?) would prefer to be can-flipped over being Suicide Ganked. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:44:00 -
[489] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:. You know all those can flippers that aren't looking for "real" pvp and are going to be terribly furious about a "flag" that acts as though you just can flipped all of EvE. Yep, no holes in that one look at all the threads from the flippers about how bad that will be. Let's rename him CCP Clueless and the winter update Arson. mm ganker tears, so delicious. Oh-no! poor greifers will have to take a risk when flipping a can of a solo miner? Better bawl all over the forums now about how EVE pvp is ruined forever.
Actually, that was more like drinking my urine. I've never flipped a can but I'm sure to love the suspect flagging.
|
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 20:48:00 -
[490] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Homo Jesus wrote:. You know all those can flippers that aren't looking for "real" pvp and are going to be terribly furious about a "flag" that acts as though you just can flipped all of EvE. Yep, no holes in that one look at all the threads from the flippers about how bad that will be. Let's rename him CCP Clueless and the winter update Arson. mm ganker tears, so delicious. Oh-no! poor greifers will have to take a risk when flipping a can of a solo miner? Better bawl all over the forums now about how EVE pvp is ruined forever. HS PVP is available in 4 forms. Can Flipping. Wardecs. Suicide Ganks. AWOXing. Wardecs are broken. This will break Can Flipping. So all that's left is Suicide Ganks. And since Ganking Freighters will be effectively impossible to make profitable (your looting freighter will be globally flagged, thus dead), Guess what's gonna increase in frequency. Somehow, I think the Solo miner (why isn't he using a Mack?) would prefer to be can-flipped over being Suicide Ganked. And I think Corp miners would prefer to be can flipped than Awoxed.
How are wardecs broken? Also, how can anyone take you seriously when you post 48 times a day on average and most of it is nonsense? |
|
Pipa Porto
764
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 21:37:00 -
[491] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:How are wardecs broken? Also, how can anyone take you seriously when you post 48 times a day on average and most of it is nonsense? Break Can flipping? WTF?
Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears.
Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 22:01:00 -
[492] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:How are wardecs broken? Also, how can anyone take you seriously when you post 48 times a day on average and most of it is nonsense? Break Can flipping? WTF? Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears. Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous.
so how is it breaking can flipping if there is just more risk involved? Why is a global flag ridiculous for stealing from someone? That seems like it should have always been the case. the only thing that is ridiculous is your posts per day. |
Pipa Porto
764
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 22:03:00 -
[493] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:How are wardecs broken? Also, how can anyone take you seriously when you post 48 times a day on average and most of it is nonsense? Break Can flipping? WTF? Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears. Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous. so how is it breaking can flipping if there is just more risk involved? Why is a global flag ridiculous for stealing from someone? That seems like it should have always been the case. the only thing that is ridiculous is your posts per day.
Because further discouraging PVP is not a good thing in a PVP centric game. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 22:12:00 -
[494] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:How are wardecs broken? Also, how can anyone take you seriously when you post 48 times a day on average and most of it is nonsense? Break Can flipping? WTF? Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears. Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous. so how is it breaking can flipping if there is just more risk involved? Why is a global flag ridiculous for stealing from someone? That seems like it should have always been the case. the only thing that is ridiculous is your posts per day. Because further discouraging PVP is not a good thing in a PVP centric game.
they aren't discouraging pvp, they are making can flipping involve some actual risk, something that has been missing for years. And what is the point if "high sec" if griefers can have their way with you with zero risk? To say adding more risk to can flipping is going to "Break can flipping" is completely moronic. |
Pipa Porto
764
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 22:20:00 -
[495] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:they aren't discouraging pvp, they are making can flipping involve some actual risk, something that has been missing for years. And what is the point if "high sec" if griefers can have their way with you with zero risk? To say adding more risk to can flipping is going to "Break can flipping" is completely moronic.
There's only no risk if the victim isn't willing to impose any harm on their flipper.
If you are not willing to impose harm on people who do you harm, whose fault is that? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 22:29:00 -
[496] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:they aren't discouraging pvp, they are making can flipping involve some actual risk, something that has been missing for years. And what is the point if "high sec" if griefers can have their way with you with zero risk? To say adding more risk to can flipping is going to "Break can flipping" is completely moronic. There's only no risk if the victim isn't willing to impose any harm on their flipper. If you are not willing to impose harm on people who do you harm, whose fault is that?
How stupid are you, really, to say its the victims fault? Some people do not have the capacity to retaliate against a can fliipper, especially new players who just want to do a little mining to start off. Did you ever think of that? high sec is high sec for a reason. So how would this "break" can flipping again? |
Pipa Porto
765
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 23:24:00 -
[497] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:How stupid are you, really, to blame the victim of not incurring risk on a can flipper? The can flipper is the one who gets to choose whose can he flips. Some people do not have the capacity to retaliate against a can fliipper, especially new players who just want to do a little mining to start off. Did you ever think of that? high sec is high sec for a reason. So how would adding more risk "break" can flipping again?
High Sec is simply an area that provides a different set of consequences for PVP. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that anywhere in EVE is supposed to be "safe."
There is no significant risk in EVE other than what other players provide. If you're new, make friends and collect them in a corp; have someone designated to provide consequences to any can flippers. Can flipping is the only risk to jettisoning your stuff into space unsecured.
Can flipping is stealing. You get to retaliate against people who steal from you. Why would Bob, the uninvolved 3rd party, get to retaliate against the person who stole from you? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 00:06:00 -
[498] - Quote
To flip or not to flip this is the question...well not really. I guess it would be if I flip do the godlike sentries attack me?
And if a flip flags you to everyone in high sec will the foolish:
A: not attack
B: rush forward in fail fits or
C: form a proper quick response fleet |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 00:12:00 -
[499] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: Why would Bob, the uninvolved 3rd party, get to retaliate against the person who stole from you?
umm, because you commited a crime? same as any crime. Why am I even bothering to argue with stupid no-lifers. Still waiting to hear how additional risk "breaks" can flipping. |
Pipa Porto
766
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 00:23:00 -
[500] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: Why would Bob, the uninvolved 3rd party, get to retaliate against the person who stole from you? umm, because you commited a crime? same as any crime. Why am I even bothering to argue with stupid no-lifers. Still waiting to hear how additional risk "breaks" can flipping.
You committed a tort against an individual. If it were a crime, you'd lose Sec Status and be CONCORDed.
A Tort in EVE means that the wronged individual has the option to cause harm to to the offender as recompense for the offense.
A specific example, 1v1s are done. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
|
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 02:07:00 -
[501] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: Why would Bob, the uninvolved 3rd party, get to retaliate against the person who stole from you? umm, because you commited a crime? same as any crime. Why am I even bothering to argue with stupid no-lifers. Still waiting to hear how additional risk "breaks" can flipping. You committed a tort against an individual. If it were a crime, you'd lose Sec Status and be CONCORDed. A Tort in EVE means that the wronged individual has the option to cause harm to to the offender as recompense for the offense. A specific example, 1v1s are done.
Sorry, having your own personal definitions does not mean you are right. Stealing is a crime and apparently CCP agrees with me. In what backwards universe of yours is stealing not considered a crime and can only be punished by the person who they stole from? LOL. About time they got it right.
So how does this "break" can flipping again? |
Pipa Porto
768
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 02:12:00 -
[502] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: Why would Bob, the uninvolved 3rd party, get to retaliate against the person who stole from you? umm, because you commited a crime? same as any crime. Why am I even bothering to argue with stupid no-lifers. Still waiting to hear how additional risk "breaks" can flipping. You committed a tort against an individual. If it were a crime, you'd lose Sec Status and be CONCORDed. A Tort in EVE means that the wronged individual has the option to cause harm to to the offender as recompense for the offense. A specific example, 1v1s are done. Sorry, having your own personal definitions does not mean you are right. Stealing is a crime and apparently CCP agrees with me. In what backwards universe of yours is stealing not considered a crime and can only be punished by the person who they stole from? LOL. So how does this "break" can flipping again?
In the EVE universe, crimes result in Sec Status hits. Stealing doesn't result in a Sec Status hit. Ergo, Stealing is not a crime in EVE.
One specific, 1v1s, like I said above. Other examples have been outlined in the Crimewatch thread. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Bommel McMurdoc
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 03:52:00 -
[503] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: Why would Bob, the uninvolved 3rd party, get to retaliate against the person who stole from you? umm, because you commited a crime? same as any crime. Why am I even bothering to argue with stupid no-lifers. Still waiting to hear how additional risk "breaks" can flipping. You committed a tort against an individual. If it were a crime, you'd lose Sec Status and be CONCORDed. A Tort in EVE means that the wronged individual has the option to cause harm to to the offender as recompense for the offense. A specific example, 1v1s are done.
(filled with more sarcasm than Rodney Dangerfield on the strip) riiiiiiight, can flipper is ALWAYS looking for 1v1 fights.
I stopped trying to "punish" those can flippers after the 3rd attempt to take em on 1v1 with my pvp ship. the last 3 times I did that, it turned into 3-4-5 v 1. I sure showed em didn't i?
You got it pipa, the victim should punish the offender. Look, in a perfect world the can flipper would actually fight the victim when he/she (the victim) is willing to fight. But this is not a perfect society, not in the least. Honor means nothing, in EvE it's a figment of the imagination just like the game itself. Honor by the games definition is " HAY BRO'S! I"M GONNA NEED ANOTHER JAR TO COLLECT THESE TEARS! AND POST IT ON THE IT'NETS!" |
Pipa Porto
769
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:15:00 -
[504] - Quote
Bommel McMurdoc wrote:(filled with more sarcasm than Rodney Dangerfield on the strip) riiiiiiight, can flipper is ALWAYS looking for 1v1 fights.
I stopped trying to "punish" those can flippers after the 3rd attempt to take em on 1v1 with my pvp ship. the last 3 times I did that, it turned into 3-4-5 v 1. I sure showed em didn't i?
You got it pipa, the victim should punish the offender. Look, in a perfect world the can flipper would actually fight the victim when he/she (the victim) is willing to fight. But this is not a perfect society, not in the least. Honor means nothing, in EvE it's a figment of the imagination just like the game itself. Honor by the games definition is " HAY BRO'S! I"M GONNA NEED ANOTHER JAR TO COLLECT THESE TEARS! AND POST IT ON THE IT'NETS!"
The only way the victim can be shot by more than 1 Flipper is if you shot at them first. If they bring Logi, grab your corp-mates, and tackle those Logi (they're expensive, and can't shoot back that well, so they're pretty easy to keep tackled). If they bring DPS ships, ignore them until you've killed off everything else. They can't shoot you unless you shoot them.
If the Victim can catch the can flipper, the victim can force the fight. (A Cloaked Stealth Bomber works well for that.) A Can flipper can never force the fight.
I'm not arguing anything about e-honor. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:27:00 -
[505] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: Stealing is not a crime in EVE.
A crime isn't how you chose to define it, sorry.
Can flippers are theives and theives are people who commit crimes.Stealing has always been considered a crime though the history of humanity. That is why you are flagged to everyone once you steal, just like a criminal would be punishable by anyone if they stole. To think only the person who you stole from should be retaliate against you is both stupid and unrealistic. I advise you to learn the definitions of "crime" and "broken" and come back when you have a better argument.
Still waiting to hear how increased risk to can flippers "breaks" can flipping.
nvm, i'll make a thread and ask. |
Pipa Porto
769
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:36:00 -
[506] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: Stealing is not a crime in EVE.
A crime isn't how you chose to define it, sorry. Can flippers are theives and theives are people who commit crimes.Stealing has always been considered a crime though the history of humanity. That is why you are flagged to everyone once you steal, just like a criminal would be punishable by anyone if they stole. To think only the person who you stole from should be retaliate against you is both stupid and unrealistic. I advise you to learn the definitions of "crime" and "broken" and come back when you have a better argument. Still waiting to hear how increased risk to can flippers "breaks" can flipping.
In the Real World, a Crime is something that the Police (well, Criminal Justice System) punish you for. A tort is a private matter that the involved parties settle (often, but not always with help from the courts). In EVE, CONCORD doesn't intervene in any way with theft, it allows the two involved parties to settle the matter. CONCORD is the Criminal Justice System in EVE, so it looks like in EVE, theft is a Tort.
I already showed you an example of what gets broken by Crimewatch. Other examples are available in the Crimewatch thread.
And allowing everyone to shoot at can flippers means that there is no reason for Miners to form Corps for protection, as they can simply let random bystanders do their work for them. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 04:38:00 -
[507] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: Stealing is not a crime in EVE.
A crime isn't how you chose to define it, sorry. Can flippers are theives and theives are people who commit crimes.Stealing has always been considered a crime though the history of humanity. That is why you are flagged to everyone once you steal, just like a criminal would be punishable by anyone if they stole. To think only the person who you stole from should be retaliate against you is both stupid and unrealistic. I advise you to learn the definitions of "crime" and "broken" and come back when you have a better argument. Still waiting to hear how increased risk to can flippers "breaks" can flipping. In the Real World, a Crime is something that the Police (well, Criminal Justice System) punish you for. A tort is a private matter that the involved parties settle (often, but not always with help from the courts). In EVE, CONCORD doesn't intervene in any way with theft, it allows the two involved parties to settle the matter. CONCORD is the Criminal Justice System in EVE, so it looks like in EVE, theft is a Tort. I already showed you an example of what gets broken by Crimewatch. Other examples are available in the Crimewatch thread. And allowing everyone to shoot at can flippers means that there is no reason for Miners to form Corps for protection, as they can simply let random bystanders do their work for them.
Yes, so more than just the victim punishes the criminal. Thievery is a crime whether you can understand that or not. Sorry, having your own personal definitions for words is a pretty shakey platform for argument.
There is now a thread about whether this "breaks" can flipping or not. We can discuss it there where people can tell you that you are dead wrong. |
General Xenophon
BLD Holdings Mistakes Were Made.
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 05:19:00 -
[508] - Quote
CCP at the impossible again, making looting and plundering pirating, boring.
Another village has been burned and even the 'Yar hars!' were silent at the sight of it. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 10:00:00 -
[509] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Thievery is a crime whether you can understand that or not.
"Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction". In simplier words that means that as long as some action isn't directly outlawed by formal rules (enforced by force), it's not a crime. You can see that in practice laws that concern capsuleers of New Eden allow any form of thievery from other capsuleers, alowing latter to defend themselves against it by giving them right to retailate.
Remember, "crime" is not a moral term, it's a lawer's term. No written law = no crime, no matter how "bad" is the offence in your eyes. Or in the country you live IRL.
It seems that CCP are thinking about changing laws of CONCORD.
What laws drive player-owned territory and how they are enforced, that is completely another story. |
Pipa Porto
772
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 10:23:00 -
[510] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Yes, so more than just the victim punishes the criminal. Thievery is a crime whether you can understand that or not. Sorry, having your own personal definitions for words is a pretty shakey platform for argument.
There is now a thread about whether this "breaks" can flipping or not. We can discuss it there where people can explain to you how this actually fixes can flipping.
In no civilized society do 3rd parties get to take part in responding to a tort.
Can Flipping and Theft among Capsuleers is not a Crime in EVE, as evidenced by the fact that the Police don't care about it (or you'd lose Sec Status and get Concorded).
Crimewatch breaks canflipping by allowing Bob the uninvolved third party to get involved at no cost or risk to himself (the guy Bob shoots never gets to bring backup that can shoot Bob, since only the people Bob shoots can shoot Bob). High Sec is where PVP either costs you directly (suicide ganking), or exposes you to risks you otherwise wouldn't be exposed to (Canflipper is exposed to the victim setting a trap and having his whole corp pile on). Why does Bob the 3rd party get PVP without any cost or threat of escalation or surprise (well, other Bobs can pile on on Bob's side, but that just underscores my point). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
|
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
96
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 10:24:00 -
[511] - Quote
Just out of curiousity if Im in a fleet with someone who is not in my corp and they get can flipped, am I allowed to attack the can flipper?
|
Pipa Porto
772
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 10:54:00 -
[512] - Quote
Kryss Darkdust wrote:Just out of curiousity if Im in a fleet with someone who is not in my corp and they get can flipped, am I allowed to attack the can flipper?
Nope. It's not your stuff. It's owned by the person who jetissoned the can and any player corp he's a member of. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Bommel McMurdoc
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:35:00 -
[513] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Kryss Darkdust wrote:Just out of curiousity if Im in a fleet with someone who is not in my corp and they get can flipped, am I allowed to attack the can flipper? Nope. It's not your stuff. It's owned by the person who jetissoned the can and any player corp he's a member of.
I distinctively remember being in a mining fleet and this guy in a hurricane comes in flips a can and I saw him turn red. I know that can wasn't mine, because I was flying the Orca. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 16:28:00 -
[514] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Yes, so more than just the victim punishes the criminal. Thievery is a crime whether you can understand that or not. Sorry, having your own personal definitions for words is a pretty shakey platform for argument.
There is now a thread about whether this "breaks" can flipping or not. We can discuss it there where people can explain to you how this actually fixes can flipping. In no civilized society do 3rd parties get to take part in responding to a tort. Can Flipping and Theft among Capsuleers is not a Crime in EVE, as evidenced by the fact that the Police don't care about it (or you'd lose Sec Status and get Concorded). Crimewatch breaks canflipping by allowing Bob the uninvolved third party to get involved at no cost or risk to himself (the guy Bob shoots never gets to bring backup that can shoot Bob, since only the people Bob shoots can shoot Bob). High Sec is where PVP either costs you directly (suicide ganking), or exposes you to risks you otherwise wouldn't be exposed to (Canflipper is exposed to the victim setting a trap and having his whole corp pile on). Why does Bob the 3rd party get PVP without any cost or threat of escalation or surprise (well, other Bobs can pile on on Bob's side, but that just underscores my point).
sorry, a "crime" isn't how you define it nor is can flipping "broken". apparently CCP agrees with me in that can flipping should be punishable by anyone, it is stealing after all, and stealing is crime, not a tort. Can flipping has been fixed, if anything. There is another thread created on this subject, nobody agrees with you than this "breaks" can flipping, it only involves more risk, if you aren't willing to take the risk anymore then that is your fault, not CCPs. So, in no way does this "break" can flipping. You might want to go back to elementary school before you try to debate people, having your own personal definitions is not a good platform for an argument. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 16:31:00 -
[515] - Quote
Kryss Darkdust wrote:Just out of curiousity if Im in a fleet with someone who is not in my corp and they get can flipped, am I allowed to attack the can flipper?
you will be able to soon once CCP fixes can flipping. Stealing should have always been punishable by anyone. It was ridiculous before. |
Pipa Porto
777
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 00:04:00 -
[516] - Quote
Bommel McMurdoc wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Kryss Darkdust wrote:Just out of curiousity if Im in a fleet with someone who is not in my corp and they get can flipped, am I allowed to attack the can flipper? Nope. It's not your stuff. It's owned by the person who jetissoned the can and any player corp he's a member of. I distinctively remember being in a mining fleet and this guy in a hurricane comes in flips a can and I saw him turn red. I know that can wasn't mine, because I was flying the Orca.
Then you were in the same Corp as the person who dropped the can. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Pipa Porto
777
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 00:12:00 -
[517] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:sorry, a "crime" isn't how you define it nor is can flipping "broken". apparently CCP agrees with me in that can flipping should be punishable by anyone, it is stealing after all, and stealing is crime, not a tort. Can flipping has been fixed, if anything. There is another thread created on this subject, nobody agrees with you than this "breaks" can flipping, it only involves more risk, if you aren't willing to take the risk anymore then that is your fault, not CCPs. So, in no way does this "break" can flipping. You might want to go back to elementary school before you try to debate people, having your own personal definitions is not a good platform for an argument.
CCP's been backpedaling away from just about everything it's said about Crimewatch 2.0.
CONCORD is the police of EVE. CONCORD doesn't do anything about Can Flipping/Theft Therefore, Can Flipping/Theft are not Crimes in EVE.
Wikipedia's definition of Crime: "Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. "
Let's see, Can Flipping may be a breach of rules or laws, but no governing authority can prescribe a conviction (as represented by a Sec Status hit or CONCORDing), therefore, it is not a crime in the EVE universe.
Even if Crimewatch 2.0 were implemented in the dumbass way it's been proposed, can flipping/theft would not be a crime. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 00:22:00 -
[518] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:sorry, a "crime" isn't how you define it nor is can flipping "broken". apparently CCP agrees with me in that can flipping should be punishable by anyone, it is stealing after all, and stealing is crime, not a tort. Can flipping has been fixed, if anything. There is another thread created on this subject, nobody agrees with you than this "breaks" can flipping, it only involves more risk, if you aren't willing to take the risk anymore then that is your fault, not CCPs. So, in no way does this "break" can flipping. You might want to go back to elementary school before you try to debate people, having your own personal definitions is not a good platform for an argument. CCP's been backpedaling away from just about everything it's said about Crimewatch 2.0. CONCORD is the police of EVE. CONCORD doesn't do anything about Can Flipping/Theft Therefore, Can Flipping/Theft are not Crimes in EVE. Wikipedia's definition of Crime: "Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. " Let's see, Can Flipping may be a breach of rules or laws, but no governing authority can prescribe a conviction (as represented by a Sec Status hit or CONCORDing), therefore, it is not a crime in the EVE universe. Even if Crimewatch 2.0 were implemented in the dumbass way it's been proposed, can flipping/theft would not be a crime.
Sorry, you dont get to decide what a crime is or isn't. The rest of the world does that. Maybe your post average wasn't 48 posts a day, you wouldn't have such a closed mind when it came to reality. Stealing is a crime and its about time it was punished as such. If anything, this is a fix to can flipping, making it more realistic. Its about time. You claim that by adding more risk to can flipping, it somehow "breaks" can flipping. This just goes to show how detached from rational thought you really are. When someone posts as much as you do, its indicative of mental problems and psychological disorder, not to mention being a social reject that nobody can take seriously. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
142
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 00:26:00 -
[519] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:sorry, a "crime" isn't how you define it nor is can flipping "broken". apparently CCP agrees with me in that can flipping should be punishable by anyone, it is stealing after all, and stealing is crime, not a tort. Can flipping has been fixed, if anything. There is another thread created on this subject, nobody agrees with you than this "breaks" can flipping, it only involves more risk, if you aren't willing to take the risk anymore then that is your fault, not CCPs. So, in no way does this "break" can flipping. You might want to go back to elementary school before you try to debate people, having your own personal definitions is not a good platform for an argument. CCP's been backpedaling away from just about everything it's said about Crimewatch 2.0. CONCORD is the police of EVE. CONCORD doesn't do anything about Can Flipping/Theft Therefore, Can Flipping/Theft are not Crimes in EVE. Wikipedia's definition of Crime: "Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. " Let's see, Can Flipping may be a breach of rules or laws, but no governing authority can prescribe a conviction (as represented by a Sec Status hit or CONCORDing), therefore, it is not a crime in the EVE universe. Even if Crimewatch 2.0 were implemented in the dumbass way it's been proposed, can flipping/theft would not be a crime. Sorry, you dont get to decide what a crime is or isn't. The rest of the world does that. Maybe your post average wasn't 48 posts a day, you wouldn't have such a closed mind when it came to reality. Stealing is a crime and its about time it was punished as such. If anything, this is a fix to can flipping, making it more realistic. Its about time. You claim that by adding more risk to can flipping, it somehow "breaks" can flipping. This just goes to show how detached from rational thought you really are. When someone posts as much as you do, its indicative of mental problems and psychological disorder, not to mention being a social reject that nobody can take seriously.
*bangs head* Please.....Stop...Posting....In ...My ...Thread... You ...Moron.... |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 00:29:00 -
[520] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:sorry, a "crime" isn't how you define it nor is can flipping "broken". apparently CCP agrees with me in that can flipping should be punishable by anyone, it is stealing after all, and stealing is crime, not a tort. Can flipping has been fixed, if anything. There is another thread created on this subject, nobody agrees with you than this "breaks" can flipping, it only involves more risk, if you aren't willing to take the risk anymore then that is your fault, not CCPs. So, in no way does this "break" can flipping. You might want to go back to elementary school before you try to debate people, having your own personal definitions is not a good platform for an argument. CCP's been backpedaling away from just about everything it's said about Crimewatch 2.0. CONCORD is the police of EVE. CONCORD doesn't do anything about Can Flipping/Theft Therefore, Can Flipping/Theft are not Crimes in EVE. Wikipedia's definition of Crime: "Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. " Let's see, Can Flipping may be a breach of rules or laws, but no governing authority can prescribe a conviction (as represented by a Sec Status hit or CONCORDing), therefore, it is not a crime in the EVE universe. Even if Crimewatch 2.0 were implemented in the dumbass way it's been proposed, can flipping/theft would not be a crime. Sorry, you dont get to decide what a crime is or isn't. The rest of the world does that. Maybe your post average wasn't 48 posts a day, you wouldn't have such a closed mind when it came to reality. Stealing is a crime and its about time it was punished as such. If anything, this is a fix to can flipping, making it more realistic. Its about time. You claim that by adding more risk to can flipping, it somehow "breaks" can flipping. This just goes to show how detached from rational thought you really are. When someone posts as much as you do, its indicative of mental problems and psychological disorder, not to mention being a social reject that nobody can take seriously. *bangs head* Please.....Stop...Posting....In ...My ...Thread... You ...Moron....
real pvpers love the crimewatch changes, if you weren't an awful and lazy pvper, you wouldn't be making crybaby threads like this in the first place and having so many ppl come in and tell you that you are wrong. |
|
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
142
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 00:32:00 -
[521] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:sorry, a "crime" isn't how you define it nor is can flipping "broken". apparently CCP agrees with me in that can flipping should be punishable by anyone, it is stealing after all, and stealing is crime, not a tort. Can flipping has been fixed, if anything. There is another thread created on this subject, nobody agrees with you than this "breaks" can flipping, it only involves more risk, if you aren't willing to take the risk anymore then that is your fault, not CCPs. So, in no way does this "break" can flipping. You might want to go back to elementary school before you try to debate people, having your own personal definitions is not a good platform for an argument. CCP's been backpedaling away from just about everything it's said about Crimewatch 2.0. CONCORD is the police of EVE. CONCORD doesn't do anything about Can Flipping/Theft Therefore, Can Flipping/Theft are not Crimes in EVE. Wikipedia's definition of Crime: "Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. " Let's see, Can Flipping may be a breach of rules or laws, but no governing authority can prescribe a conviction (as represented by a Sec Status hit or CONCORDing), therefore, it is not a crime in the EVE universe. Even if Crimewatch 2.0 were implemented in the dumbass way it's been proposed, can flipping/theft would not be a crime. Sorry, you dont get to decide what a crime is or isn't. The rest of the world does that. Maybe your post average wasn't 48 posts a day, you wouldn't have such a closed mind when it came to reality. Stealing is a crime and its about time it was punished as such. If anything, this is a fix to can flipping, making it more realistic. Its about time. You claim that by adding more risk to can flipping, it somehow "breaks" can flipping. This just goes to show how detached from rational thought you really are. When someone posts as much as you do, its indicative of mental problems and psychological disorder, not to mention being a social reject that nobody can take seriously. *bangs head* Please.....Stop...Posting....In ...My ...Thread... You ...Moron.... real pvpers love the crimewatch changes, if you weren't an awful and lazy pvper, you wouldn't be making crybaby threads like this in the first place and having so many ppl come in and tell you that you are wrong.
Jesus H. Christ it's like reading something a 4th grader put on construction paper for their Mother... Don't eat too much glue Billy. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 00:40:00 -
[522] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: Jesus H. Christ it's like reading something a 4th grader put on construction paper for their Mother... Don't eat too much glue Billy.
i'm not surprised you are still spouting nonsense. Only the stupid and awful "pvpers" are crying about this change.
Here is quote from someone who can actually think rationally and doesn't make crybaby threads when things get a little more challenging. Real pvpers love the crimewatch changes.
Xen Solarus wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:funny that you say you hope for pvp instead of just going out and getting it like a normal pvper. in reality, you are picking on noob corps, probably because you are awful and know you can't handle anything else. Stupidity isn't lack of knowledge of can flipping mechanics, stupidity is thinking lack of knowledge = stupidity . If anyone is inferior, its the can flipper. Normal pvpers won't stoop so low, they prefer a challenge and targets that actually fight back. Finally CCP is doing something about riskless d-bag piracy. Deal with it.
Personally I'm very glad CCP is finally adding some risk to the douchebag lifestyle, can flippers and suicide gankers had it way too easy before. Essentially zero risk for these scrubs who beat their chest over shooting fish in a barrel. The river of tears over the fact that a little more risk is going to be involved in can flipping is hilarious. Awful players left and right throwing up their hands and claiming EVE pvp is ruined or turning into WoW. LOL. Quoted for truth. Changes to sentries, and flag mechanics, will seperate the crap PVPer from the good. The Pro-scanning, "hunting you down and killing you" elite, from the "sitting on a gate blasting everything" noobs, and the "can-flipping and suicide ganking" cowards. All those crappy pvp-wannabies threatening to unsub, please, go ahead. Your selfish flow of easy kills have finally been recognised as something that is harming eve's continued growth and development. Your quest for easy, risk-free kills has made low-sec a wasteland.Eve is not a game where things are delivered on a silver platter. I aplaud the real PVPers, confident and experienced enough to adapt to these changes, and continue to own all that stand before them. They have already learned how to actually PVP. They recognise the duel benifits on increased low-sec traffic, and are excited to see this wasteland become viable again. They want people in low-sec, they want to see them explode. They aren't crying about the fact that they won't be able to shoot them the moment the step through the door. They're aren't crying that their easy risk-free methods and one-sided fights are about to disappear. They know they're is going to be more targets, and they know how to find them. The only people crying are the skill-less players that are used to their risk-free ganks, and cowardly camps. If their target didn't just come to them, as usuall, then they wouldn't have a clue what to do. Other than whine and unsub of course.
Don't worry too much about CCP taking away your seal-clubbing, I hear you can still camp low-level quest hubs in WoW. |
Garreth Vlox
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
62
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 00:45:00 -
[523] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote: Jesus H. Christ it's like reading something a 4th grader put on construction paper for their Mother... Don't eat too much glue Billy.
i'm not surprised you are still spouting nonsense. Only the stupid and awful "pvpers" are crying about this change. Here is quote from someone who can actually think rationally and doesn't make crybaby threads when things get a little more challenging. Real pvpers love the crimewatch changes. Xen Solarus wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:funny that you say you hope for pvp instead of just going out and getting it like a normal pvper. in reality, you are picking on noob corps, probably because you are awful and know you can't handle anything else. Stupidity isn't lack of knowledge of can flipping mechanics, stupidity is thinking lack of knowledge = stupidity . If anyone is inferior, its the can flipper. Normal pvpers won't stoop so low, they prefer a challenge and targets that actually fight back. Finally CCP is doing something about riskless d-bag piracy. Deal with it.
Personally I'm very glad CCP is finally adding some risk to the douchebag lifestyle, can flippers and suicide gankers had it way too easy before. Essentially zero risk for these scrubs who beat their chest over shooting fish in a barrel. The river of tears over the fact that a little more risk is going to be involved in can flipping is hilarious. Awful players left and right throwing up their hands and claiming EVE pvp is ruined or turning into WoW. LOL. Quoted for truth. Changes to sentries, and flag mechanics, will seperate the crap PVPer from the good. The Pro-scanning, "hunting you down and killing you" elite, from the "sitting on a gate blasting everything" noobs, and the "can-flipping and suicide ganking" cowards. All those crappy pvp-wannabies threatening to unsub, please, go ahead. Your selfish flow of easy kills have finally been recognised as something that is harming eve's continued growth and development. Your quest for easy, risk-free kills has made low-sec a wasteland.Eve is not a game where things are delivered on a silver platter. I aplaud the real PVPers, confident and experienced enough to adapt to these changes, and continue to own all that stand before them. They have already learned how to actually PVP. They recognise the duel benifits on increased low-sec traffic, and are excited to see this wasteland become viable again. They want people in low-sec, they want to see them explode. They aren't crying about the fact that they won't be able to shoot them the moment the step through the door. They're aren't crying that their easy risk-free methods and one-sided fights are about to disappear. They know they're is going to be more targets, and they know how to find them. The only people crying are the skill-less players that are used to their risk-free ganks, and cowardly camps. If their target didn't just come to them, as usuall, then they wouldn't have a clue what to do. Other than whine and unsub of course. Don't worry too much about CCP taking away your seal-clubbing, I hear you can still camp low-level quest hubs in WoW.
All hail the wanna-be forum warrior, his skills are...meh. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
144
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 00:57:00 -
[524] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote: Jesus H. Christ it's like reading something a 4th grader put on construction paper for their Mother... Don't eat too much glue Billy.
i'm not surprised you are still spouting nonsense. Only the stupid and awful "pvpers" are crying about this change. Here is quote from someone who can actually think rationally and doesn't make crybaby threads when things get a little more challenging. Real pvpers love the crimewatch changes. Xen Solarus wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:funny that you say you hope for pvp instead of just going out and getting it like a normal pvper. in reality, you are picking on noob corps, probably because you are awful and know you can't handle anything else. Stupidity isn't lack of knowledge of can flipping mechanics, stupidity is thinking lack of knowledge = stupidity . If anyone is inferior, its the can flipper. Normal pvpers won't stoop so low, they prefer a challenge and targets that actually fight back. Finally CCP is doing something about riskless d-bag piracy. Deal with it.
Personally I'm very glad CCP is finally adding some risk to the douchebag lifestyle, can flippers and suicide gankers had it way too easy before. Essentially zero risk for these scrubs who beat their chest over shooting fish in a barrel. The river of tears over the fact that a little more risk is going to be involved in can flipping is hilarious. Awful players left and right throwing up their hands and claiming EVE pvp is ruined or turning into WoW. LOL. Quoted for truth. Changes to sentries, and flag mechanics, will seperate the crap PVPer from the good. The Pro-scanning, "hunting you down and killing you" elite, from the "sitting on a gate blasting everything" noobs, and the "can-flipping and suicide ganking" cowards. All those crappy pvp-wannabies threatening to unsub, please, go ahead. Your selfish flow of easy kills have finally been recognised as something that is harming eve's continued growth and development. Your quest for easy, risk-free kills has made low-sec a wasteland.Eve is not a game where things are delivered on a silver platter. I aplaud the real PVPers, confident and experienced enough to adapt to these changes, and continue to own all that stand before them. They have already learned how to actually PVP. They recognise the duel benifits on increased low-sec traffic, and are excited to see this wasteland become viable again. They want people in low-sec, they want to see them explode. They aren't crying about the fact that they won't be able to shoot them the moment the step through the door. They're aren't crying that their easy risk-free methods and one-sided fights are about to disappear. They know they're is going to be more targets, and they know how to find them. The only people crying are the skill-less players that are used to their risk-free ganks, and cowardly camps. If their target didn't just come to them, as usuall, then they wouldn't have a clue what to do. Other than whine and unsub of course. Don't worry too much about CCP taking away your mindless seal-clubbing, I hear you can still camp low-level quest hubs in WoW.
So you quote something entirely different then try to spew off some other random bullshit smack? Okay look I'll sit here and dissect this entire post just because I'm waiting for the laundry to finish and because it really amazes me how stupid some people really are. That means you sport. Lets begin shall we?
First your claim about only "aweful" players complaining about this change is baseless and ********. There are many excellent pilots whom feel these changes a threat to in their eyes the only decent fighting left in Eve which is small gang engagements that primarily happen on Gates.
Second we'll see how "real" this person is at Pvp when I pick apart each **** encrusted sentence.
Okay first Sentry mechanics will seperate crap Pvpr's from decent ones but not in the way said poster said it would. The crap pvpr's will exploit said changes with fast tackle and Alpha fleets sniping anything that comes into said system thus just abusing you poor little castrated carebears even further.
Second there is no "risk" free kill in Eve especially in Low Sec. There are gate guns which already put you at a disadvantage for engaging targets especially if they attack you back.
Third this "skill" of probing and using D scan to find people is ******* PVP 101 dipshit. It's not some elite skill the MMO gods bestowed upon you. It's a TOOL just like everything else in this game. D scan is a tool, local is a tool, probes are a tool. I can't help someone if they drool on their keyboard and don't know basic fundamentals.
THAT is NOT "elite" pvp. It's called simple mechanics. Plain and simple.
Fourth CCP made low sec a wasteland by nerfing anoms and rat bounties not to mention any decen lucrative means to make isk can be quadrupled in Null Sec thus killing ANY desire to be in low sec if all you want is Cash. the sooner people realize the CONTENT is broken the sooner low sec can be fixed.
Fifth these "leet" pvpr's you speak of who will adapt and exploit these broken changes to their advantage are the very people YOU keep bitching about! THEY are the gate campers already sitting on a gate waiting for you. This will ONLY make it easier for them to pop your poor wittle Iteron.
Sixth They aren't crying because they know it will be easy kills and of course they know where the damned targets are! Their at the DAMN GATE!
Seventh pulling a WoW joke while at the same time proving to ANY competent pilot here what a complete utter ignorant fool you are is the BEST way to be laughed at.
|
Garreth Vlox
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
62
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 01:16:00 -
[525] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Tara Read wrote: Jesus H. Christ it's like reading something a 4th grader put on construction paper for their Mother... Don't eat too much glue Billy.
i'm not surprised you are still spouting nonsense. Only the stupid and awful "pvpers" are crying about this change. Here is quote from someone who can actually think rationally and doesn't make crybaby threads when things get a little more challenging. Real pvpers love the crimewatch changes. Personally I'm very glad CCP is finally adding some risk to the douchebag lifestyle, can flippers and suicide gankers had it way too easy before. Essentially zero risk for these scrubs who beat their chest over shooting fish in a barrel. The river of tears over the fact that a little more risk is going to be involved in can flipping is hilarious. Awful players left and right throwing up their hands and claiming EVE pvp is ruined or turning into WoW. LOL. Quoted for truth. Changes to sentries, and flag mechanics, will seperate the crap PVPer from the good. The Pro-scanning, "hunting you down and killing you" elite, from the "sitting on a gate blasting everything" noobs, and the "can-flipping and suicide ganking" cowards. All those crappy pvp-wannabies threatening to unsub, please, go ahead. Your selfish flow of easy kills have finally been recognised as something that is harming eve's continued growth and development. Your quest for easy, risk-free kills has made low-sec a wasteland.Eve is not a game where things are delivered on a silver platter. I aplaud the real PVPers, confident and experienced enough to adapt to these changes, and continue to own all that stand before them. They have already learned how to actually PVP. They recognise the duel benifits on increased low-sec traffic, and are excited to see this wasteland become viable again. They want people in low-sec, they want to see them explode. They aren't crying about the fact that they won't be able to shoot them the moment the step through the door. They're aren't crying that their easy risk-free methods and one-sided fights are about to disappear. They know they're is going to be more targets, and they know how to find them. The only people crying are the skill-less players that are used to their risk-free ganks, and cowardly camps. If their target didn't just come to them, as usuall, then they wouldn't have a clue what to do. Other than whine and unsub of course.
Don't worry too much about CCP taking away your mindless seal-clubbing, I hear you can still camp low-level quest hubs in WoW. [/quote]
So you quote something entirely different then try to spew off some other random bullshit smack? Okay look I'll sit here and dissect this entire post just because I'm waiting for the laundry to finish and because it really amazes me how stupid some people really are. That means you sport. Lets begin shall we?
First your claim about only "aweful" players complaining about this change is baseless and ********. There are many excellent pilots whom feel these changes a threat to in their eyes the only decent fighting left in Eve which is small gang engagements that primarily happen on Gates.
Second we'll see how "real" this person is at Pvp when I pick apart each **** encrusted sentence.
Okay first Sentry mechanics will seperate crap Pvpr's from decent ones but not in the way said poster said it would. The crap pvpr's will exploit said changes with fast tackle and Alpha fleets sniping anything that comes into said system thus just abusing you poor little castrated carebears even further.
Second there is no "risk" free kill in Eve especially in Low Sec. There are gate guns which already put you at a disadvantage for engaging targets especially if they attack you back.
Third this "skill" of probing and using D scan to find people is ******* PVP 101 dipshit. It's not some elite skill the MMO gods bestowed upon you. It's a TOOL just like everything else in this game. D scan is a tool, local is a tool, probes are a tool. I can't help someone if they drool on their keyboard and don't know basic fundamentals.
THAT is NOT "elite" pvp. It's called simple mechanics. Plain and simple.
Fourth CCP made low sec a wasteland by nerfing anoms and rat bounties not to mention any decen lucrative means to make isk can be quadrupled in Null Sec thus killing ANY desire to be in low sec if all you want is Cash. the sooner people realize the CONTENT is broken the sooner low sec can be fixed.
Fifth these "leet" pvpr's you speak of who will adapt and exploit these broken changes to their advantage are the very people YOU keep bitching about! THEY are the gate campers already sitting on a gate waiting for you. This will ONLY make it easier for them to pop your poor wittle Iteron.
Sixth They aren't crying because they know it will be easy kills and of course they know where the damned targets are! Their at the DAMN GATE!
Seventh pulling a WoW joke while at the same time proving to ANY competent pilot here what a complete utter ignorant fool you are is the BEST way to be laughed at.
Dude don't waste your time with this tool, it has been explained in 3 other threads all the gate changes do is make smart gate camping easier cause now we can use intys instead of those ******* expensive recons for tackle. I for 1 strongly support a system where I don't have to risk a recon and can just use a frig. |
Pipa Porto
779
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 01:39:00 -
[526] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:sorry, a "crime" isn't how you define it nor is can flipping "broken". apparently CCP agrees with me in that can flipping should be punishable by anyone, it is stealing after all, and stealing is crime, not a tort. Can flipping has been fixed, if anything. There is another thread created on this subject, nobody agrees with you than this "breaks" can flipping, it only involves more risk, if you aren't willing to take the risk anymore then that is your fault, not CCPs. So, in no way does this "break" can flipping. You might want to go back to elementary school before you try to debate people, having your own personal definitions is not a good platform for an argument. CCP's been backpedaling away from just about everything it's said about Crimewatch 2.0. CONCORD is the police of EVE. CONCORD doesn't do anything about Can Flipping/Theft Therefore, Can Flipping/Theft are not Crimes in EVE. Wikipedia's definition of Crime: "Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. " Let's see, Can Flipping may be a breach of rules or laws, but no governing authority can prescribe a conviction (as represented by a Sec Status hit or CONCORDing), therefore, it is not a crime in the EVE universe. Even if Crimewatch 2.0 were implemented in the dumbass way it's been proposed, can flipping/theft would not be a crime. Sorry, you dont get to decide what a crime is or isn't. The rest of the world does that. Maybe your post average wasn't 48 posts a day, you wouldn't have such a closed mind when it came to reality. Stealing is a crime and its about time it was punished as such. If anything, this is a fix to can flipping, making it more realistic. Its about time. You claim that by adding more risk to can flipping, it somehow "breaks" can flipping. This just goes to show how detached from rational thought you really are. When someone posts as much as you do, its indicative of mental problems and psychological disorder, not to mention being a social reject that nobody can take seriously.
Sorry, you don't get to decide what a crime is or isn't in EVE. The Police and the Yulai Convention do. The rest of the world isn't relevant.
Even if it were, in the real world, anyone can intervene in a lawsuit? Oh... Nope. Anyone can intervene in a property crime? Oh... Nope. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Esk Esme
Far From Sober
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 02:06:00 -
[527] - Quote
Signed
who the hell thinks of these stupid idea's
also will unsub four acounts lived lo sec for years it home my main -10 only resone i av other acounts are to suport that -10 acountthere would be no point with these sentry changes |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2395
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 02:14:00 -
[528] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Sorry, you don't get to decide what a crime is or isn't in EVE. The Police and the Yulai Convention do. The rest of the world isn't relevant. Surely the community of EVE could decide additional rules for themselves, as in all forms of governance?
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Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 02:39:00 -
[529] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:sorry, a "crime" isn't how you define it nor is can flipping "broken". apparently CCP agrees with me in that can flipping should be punishable by anyone, it is stealing after all, and stealing is crime, not a tort. Can flipping has been fixed, if anything. There is another thread created on this subject, nobody agrees with you than this "breaks" can flipping, it only involves more risk, if you aren't willing to take the risk anymore then that is your fault, not CCPs. So, in no way does this "break" can flipping. You might want to go back to elementary school before you try to debate people, having your own personal definitions is not a good platform for an argument. CCP's been backpedaling away from just about everything it's said about Crimewatch 2.0. CONCORD is the police of EVE. CONCORD doesn't do anything about Can Flipping/Theft Therefore, Can Flipping/Theft are not Crimes in EVE. Wikipedia's definition of Crime: "Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. " Let's see, Can Flipping may be a breach of rules or laws, but no governing authority can prescribe a conviction (as represented by a Sec Status hit or CONCORDing), therefore, it is not a crime in the EVE universe. Even if Crimewatch 2.0 were implemented in the dumbass way it's been proposed, can flipping/theft would not be a crime. Sorry, you dont get to decide what a crime is or isn't. The rest of the world does that. Maybe your post average wasn't 48 posts a day, you wouldn't have such a closed mind when it came to reality. Stealing is a crime and its about time it was punished as such. If anything, this is a fix to can flipping, making it more realistic. Its about time. You claim that by adding more risk to can flipping, it somehow "breaks" can flipping. This just goes to show how detached from rational thought you really are. When someone posts as much as you do, its indicative of mental problems and psychological disorder, not to mention being a social reject that nobody can take seriously. Sorry, you don't get to decide what a crime is or isn't in EVE. The Police and the Yulai Convention do. The rest of the world isn't relevant. Even if it were, in the real world, anyone can intervene in a lawsuit? Oh... Nope. Anyone can intervene in a property crime? Oh... Nope.
Sorry, CCP gets to decide what a crime is in eve, not some low-life forum dweller with a 48 post per day average. Apparently CCP agrees with me. Naturally, thieves should be punishable by anyone, not just the victim. To think only the victim of a crime should be able to retaliate is not only ridiculously stupid, its unrealistic. Its about time CCP fixed these broken mechanics that allow cowardly can flippers to annoy people with zero risk. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 02:40:00 -
[530] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Sorry, you don't get to decide what a crime is or isn't in EVE. The Police and the Yulai Convention do. The rest of the world isn't relevant. Surely the community of EVE could decide additional rules for themselves, as in all forms of governance?
logic and rational thought doesn't work on that one, I tried. Apparently he has mental problems amongst other comprehension issues. He actually thinks that more risk to can flippers "breaks" can flipping. |
|
CoLe Blackblood
the united Negative Ten.
41
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 03:17:00 -
[531] - Quote
Here's a novel idea. This new sentry policy should affect both parties. Anyone firing guns within sentry range should be subject to gatefire regardless of criminal intent. |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 03:31:00 -
[532] - Quote
My spider sense tells me that Mr. Burger has probably been beaten up and robbed for real few times....now he thinks there will be some kind of carebear awakening which will result in many of them learning pvp mechanics to become the suspect police or something.
I can't wait to see his losses and tear posts. Can we put the flashy blue light back on the comet so he can use that while shouting "WOOP WOOP U unda arress" at his computer screen? |
Pipa Porto
779
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 04:55:00 -
[533] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Sorry, CCP gets to decide what a crime is in eve, not some low-life forum dweller with a 48 post per day average. Apparently CCP agrees with me. Naturally, thieves should be punishable by anyone, not just the victim. To think only the victim of a crime should be able to retaliate is not only ridiculously stupid, its unrealistic. Its about time CCP fixed these broken mechanics that allow cowardly can flippers to annoy people with zero risk.
The only reason why Can flippers can operate without much risk is that the people throwing their valuables in the Trash don't feel that those valuables are worth defending. The Can Flipper is subject to attack by the owner of the stolen item and that person's friends. Meanwhile, the owner is perfectly safe from harm unless he chooses otherwise. EVE's a Libertarian Dystopia. You have to defend the sandcastles you want to keep control over.
Yes, CCP gets to decide what a crime is in EVE. And, in EVE, crimes result in Sec Status hits and, sometimes, CONCORD intervention. Can Flipping doesn't result in either of those things, so it's not a crime. CCP is also running pretty hard from the proposals it's made about the new crimewatch.
Since you keep wanting to go to RL definitions of crimes, do you know what happens if you (as a third party) shoot someone who snatches an unattended purse (or use any force to stop him)? You go to Jail. Similarly, in EVE, you are free to shoot a can flipper who stole someone else's stuff, but you have to accept some consequences.
So you want to replace a situation where theft comes with the risk of owner retaliation with a situation where anyone can shoot at a can flipper with no risk of retaliation. I thought you wanted PVP in HS to come with risk.
Can flipping is the only way to create a limited engagement in HS. With the new Crimewatch, is there any way to create a limited engagement in HS? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Boris2k
The Guardian Knights EntroPraetorian Aegis
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 05:22:00 -
[534] - Quote
This and Tiericide are pure genius, also, the fear in this thread is getting me hard. |
psycho freak
Royal Order of Security Specialists Late Night Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 08:09:00 -
[535] - Quote
signed
this is a bullsh!t idea
ccp sack that stupid idiot b4 he costs you alot rl cash
|
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
134
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 09:03:00 -
[536] - Quote
Garreth Vlox wrote: Okay first Sentry mechanics will seperate crap Pvpr's from decent ones but not in the way said poster said it would. The crap pvpr's will exploit said changes with fast tackle and Alpha fleets sniping anything that comes into said system thus just abusing you poor little castrated carebears even further.
If this is true, why all the crying, whining, and general threats of unsubs? Surely this change is AWESOME!?!?!
Garreth Vlox wrote:Second there is no "risk" free kill in Eve especially in Low Sec. There are gate guns which already put you at a disadvantage for engaging targets especially if they attack you back.
Your joking right? The list of cowardly pirate tactics are like the shining example of risk-free. Suicide ganking, completely risk free, assuming your smart enough to blow up something of more value than all the ships lost doing it. Can-flipping, amazingly risk-free way of getting a crazy faction-fitted kill, and you can can-flip in anything! All you need are a bunch of friends waiting. Gatecamps are the same, Alpha'ing everyone that comes through, no risk there! The only issue is other gangs looking to do exactly the same as you! You guys are the only ones left!
Garreth Vlox wrote: Fourth CCP made low sec a wasteland by nerfing anoms and rat bounties not to mention any decen lucrative means to make isk can be quadrupled in Null Sec thus killing ANY desire to be in low sec if all you want is Cash. the sooner people realize the CONTENT is broken the sooner low sec can be fixed.
Now this i agree with. Increased lowsec resources and sites, as well as these changes so that they can actually get in the door, will lead to an increased lowsec population. Literally the only difference is that they'll be in system, at the belts or at the sites, not just single-file shuffling into a gatecamp like lemmings.
Garreth Vlox wrote:Fifth these "leet" pvpr's you speak of who will adapt and exploit these broken changes to their advantage are the very people YOU keep bitching about! THEY are the gate campers already sitting on a gate waiting for you. This will ONLY make it easier for them to pop your poor wittle Iteron.
Again, if this is the case, why all the moaning and crying? Surely these mega-death-camps will be even better than ever!
Garreth Vlox wrote:Sixth They aren't crying because they know it will be easy kills and of course they know where the damned targets are! Their at the DAMN GATE!
Yes, yes, we know you're all at the gate, with all your little tents setup. PVP wouldn't be the same otherwise, huh?
The whole point is to make lowsec viable and populated again. Literally a win, win for everyone. More stuff for highsec players and carebears to risk their ships and lives to get, and more ships for pirates to explode. The ONLY difference is that pirates might have to make a effort now, and rather than immediately face-raping the first person through the gate, they might have to actually.... look for their targets.
People can only play on easy-mode should definately unsub. Eve isn't the game for you.
|
CoLe Blackblood
the united Negative Ten.
42
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 13:34:00 -
[537] - Quote
Lowsec needs something that none of the other areas have, for starters. An actual incentive as well as more belts and more sites with richer rewards. With better opportunity plus more places to find that opportunity you have more hunting by pirates and larger more coordinated bear groups defending each other.
And just a thought...
Highsec should be pared down to just the trading hubs while sentries blap anything camping/agressing at the border gates. This makes Eve almost entirely lawless except for Jita and a few similar hubs, but with the proposed sentry changes it seems a balanced trade-off. One strange and over-the-top change deserves another(though I think would actually be for the better).
This would never ever happen but a girl can dream can't she? |
Luminus Mallus
Haul Chill And Kill All Joint Alliance Blue
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 16:19:00 -
[538] - Quote
Welcome to "STOP BEING A JUMP GATE ****** CAMPER". Lowsec is **** because people can't even get there since gate camping fags are often there 24/7. Only an idiot jumps willingly to the lost of his ships.
GG on turret buff. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
58
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 16:36:00 -
[539] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:
The only reason why Can flippers can operate without much risk is that the people throwing their valuables in the Trash don't feel that those valuables are worth defending.
Wrong again, fool. Once again you fail to comprehend simple logic. The can flipper picks the target and will most often pick noobs who have no capacity to fight back in the first place and no corp mates around. The only reason can flippers can operate without much risk is because of dumb mechanics that make it so only the victim can punish a criminal. CCP is changing that thankfully, the best solution.
Haven't you made yourself look like enough of an idiot in this thread already? Miners are throwing their ore "in the trash" when they jettison to reduce trips to station? LOL. Tell us again how adding more risk to can flipping "breaks" can flipping. Sorry, but having your own definitions for words is a moronic platform for an argument. Maybe if you didn't have psychological problems and an inability to think rationally, you wouldn't be living on these forums with a 50 post per day average, arguing like a radio. |
ANGRY23
the united Negative Ten.
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:33:00 -
[540] - Quote
Lots of idiots with no clue about low sec shiptoasting in here. I am the CEO of a gatecamping corp and we aint concerned about how this potential change will affect gatecamping cause it wont. We will be able to stick an inty or 2 on the gate for fast tackle and then alpha everything with tornados or tempests so RANCER will still be camped whether or not this change makes it further than the drawing board. Also it wont stop smartbombing either FYI we will still smartbomb ur shuttles and noobships too.
The whines from low sec community are because this will stop fleet fights of any kind taking place on gates or stations which is currently where 90% of engagments happen anywhere in eve. Try and look past the ebil flashy pirates for a second before you post comments that confirm to us that u are emo butthurt carebears with no clue about game mechanics outside of market hubs and mission hubs.
Gatecamping FTW
Angry |
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ANGRY23
the united Negative Ten.
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:39:00 -
[541] - Quote
Luminus Mallus wrote:Welcome to "STOP BEING A JUMP GATE ****** CAMPER". Lowsec is **** because people can't even get there since gate camping fags are often there 24/7. Only an idiot jumps willingly to the loss of his ships.
GG on turret buff.
Gatecamping 24/7 on a server that is only up for 23.5 hours??? Show me where u witnessed a 23.5 hour gatecamp, i been camping gates for over 5 years and never witnessed it. Just saying |
Pipa Porto
782
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:43:00 -
[542] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
The only reason why Can flippers can operate without much risk is that the people throwing their valuables in the Trash don't feel that those valuables are worth defending.
Wrong again, fool. Once again you fail to comprehend simple logic. The can flipper picks the target and will most often pick noobs who have no capacity to fight back in the first place and no corp mates around. The only reason can flippers can operate without much risk is because of dumb mechanics that make it so only the victim can punish a criminal. CCP is changing that thankfully, the best solution. Haven't you made yourself look like enough of an idiot in this thread already? Miners are throwing their ore "in the trash" when they jettison to reduce trips to station? LOL. Tell us again how adding more risk to can flipping "breaks" can flipping. Sorry, but having your own definitions for words is a moronic platform for an argument. Maybe if you didn't have psychological problems and an inability to think rationally, you wouldn't be living on these forums with a 50 post per day average, arguing like a radio.
The Victim had every opportunity to get friends together for mutual protection. If the victim wants protection from canflipping, the newbie systems expressly forbid it. Once again, a can-flipper is not a criminal in EVE, as evidenced by the fact that CONCORD doesn't care about can-flipping, nor do the faction police.
"jet-+ti-+son/-ęjetis+Ön/ Verb: Throw or drop (something) from an aircraft or ship."
Stuff you drop out of planes and off the side of ships is not usually something you value keeping.
CCP's said several times that Jetcan Mining was an unintended consequence of introducing the ability to eject cargo from your hold.
And I already did explain how Crimewatch 2.0's proposed mechanics breaks can flipping, Suicide Ganking for profit, and any number of other things. Try to read my posts before skipping on to repeat your tired old song. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2398
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:44:00 -
[543] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:James 315 wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Sorry, you don't get to decide what a crime is or isn't in EVE. The Police and the Yulai Convention do. The rest of the world isn't relevant. Surely the community of EVE could decide additional rules for themselves, as in all forms of governance? logic and rational thought doesn't work on that one, I tried. Apparently he has mental problems amongst other comprehension issues. He actually thinks that more risk to can flippers "breaks" can flipping. That's unfortunate.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝The daily saga of one man's quest to bring civilization to highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
58
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:58:00 -
[544] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: The Victim had every opportunity to get friends together for mutual protection. If the victim wants protection from canflipping, the newbie systems expressly forbid it. Once again, a can-flipper is not a criminal in EVE, as evidenced by the fact that CONCORD doesn't care about can-flipping, nor do the faction police.
Sorry, your moronic and narrow minded perspective is too ridiculous to be taken seriously, not to mention your psychological problems and a 50 post per day average. Apparently you don't have the mental capacity to comprehend a few simple things:
The can flipper chooses their target, and they are likely to choose the easiest targest, noobs that do not have corp mates to rely on and do not have the capacity to fight back. So right at the beginning you fail to comprehend the reality of what can flippers actually do.
People jettison their ore to save time and tedious trips to station, this is especially important for noobs who are mining in frigates with small cargoholds. They aren't throwing their ore "in the trash", only an extremely stupid person would make such a comparison.
stealing is a crime, nomatter how you try to re-define it. CCP is finally fixing this so that anyone is allowed to attack theives, just as it is done in other games like Ultima Online. To think only a victim should be able to retaliate against a theif is not only ridiculous, its unrealistic. Also, adding more risk does not "break" can fllipping, it simply adds more risk to it. Do you honestly think can flipping will not occur anymore now that there is a little more risk involved? LOL.
So how mad are you right now that you are getting made to look like such an idiot? |
|
ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
111
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:17:00 -
[545] - Quote
I have cleaned this thread of a large number of troll posts, non constructive posts and personal attacks. This kind of behaviour will not be tolerated. Subjects like this will always cause controversy and passionate responses, however if you cannot make a reasoned argument for your personal position on something without resorting to petty insults, I suggest you do not post on these forums.
I will remind everyone that there are rules to be adhered to and I believe it would be a very good idea for a number of you to reacquaint yourselves with them, specifically those surrounding ranting and personal attacks. Remember that these forums are supposed to be for the benefit of the community as a whole.
Now that we have that straightened out, please try and post sensibly and lets have a decent discussion on the matter at hand - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
375
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:20:00 -
[546] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:I have cleaned this thread of a large number of troll posts, non constructive posts and personal attacks. This kind of behaviour will not be tolerated. Subjects like this will always cause controversy and passionate responses, however if you cannot make a reasoned argument for your personal position on something without resorting to petty insults, I suggest you do not post on these forums. I will remind everyone that there are rules to be adhered to and I believe it would be a very good idea for a number of you to reacquaint yourselves with them, specifically those surrounding ranting and personal attacks. Remember that these forums are supposed to be for the benefit of the community as a whole. Now that we have that straightened out, please try and post sensibly and lets have a decent discussion on the matter at hand - ISD Type40.
you missed the guy calling another guy a f@g just above. |
Pipa Porto
782
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:45:00 -
[547] - Quote
Luminus Mallus wrote:Welcome to "STOP BEING A JUMP GATE ****** CAMPER". Lowsec is **** because people can't even get there since gate camping fags are often there 24/7. Only an idiot jumps willingly to the loss of his ships.
GG on turret buff.
Most Lowsec entry points are rarely to never camped. The famous entry points are camped more often, but not 24/7. (Look at Tama, clearly, a gatecamp to be feared with ~150-200 jumps/hr, and ~1 kill/hr)
Moreover, the Turret changes let gatecampers use Ceptors to tackle, instead of whatever they use to tackle atm. Ceptor Tackle > BLAP > Gatecamp Easymode. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
149
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:50:00 -
[548] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Tara Read wrote:Serena Serene wrote:Is it sure "suspect" really means all people with a negative security status? Or could it have to do anything with changes to how "criminal flagging" works? I read about such a thing a while ago and now I'm not sure about the terminology here. It is up to interpretation and has such a grey area which is what worries me. There has been no in depth details on what "suspect" actually is which could very well mean security status. The very fact that sentries would be able to break anything up to and including a triage carrier in 5 minutes makes this even more unacceptable. "Suspect" is their new, wide reaching Crimewatch replacement for aggression flags. The "Suspect" flag is pretty terrible for other reasons, but having crazy-strong sentry guns shooting you for looting the field or helping your friend who's been attacked while looting the field is adding extra terrible on top of the terrible that it brings to HS combat.
Sounds awesome to me
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 22:29:00 -
[549] - Quote
ANGRY23 wrote: Try and look past the ebil flashy pirates for a second before you post comments that confirm to us that u are emo butthurt carebears with no clue about game mechanics outside of market hubs and mission hubs.
Gatecamping FTW
Angry
Look past the juicy goodness of using small tackle on the gate and think about the specifics of how long the sentry guns will stay at full power, will the ramp up be global for everyone who fires on the gate or per person, how fast will it ramp up in relation to the frigs (two shots 30 seconds apart or two shots 10 seconds apart?)....cycle time between targets staying the same?
If it ramps up for 15 minutes past the 1st GCC, reaches full power in 5 minutes and is global with frigs having 15-20 seconds to do their thing? Yeah sure great
Ramp up to full power in 15minutes past the 1st GCC and it lasts hours on some kind of slow cooldown? last s until the next downtime?...frigs can survive 2 shots 10 seconds apart on 1st GCC? no thanks |
Pipa Porto
782
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 22:31:00 -
[550] - Quote
Rats wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Tara Read wrote:Serena Serene wrote:Is it sure "suspect" really means all people with a negative security status? Or could it have to do anything with changes to how "criminal flagging" works? I read about such a thing a while ago and now I'm not sure about the terminology here. It is up to interpretation and has such a grey area which is what worries me. There has been no in depth details on what "suspect" actually is which could very well mean security status. The very fact that sentries would be able to break anything up to and including a triage carrier in 5 minutes makes this even more unacceptable. "Suspect" is their new, wide reaching Crimewatch replacement for aggression flags. The "Suspect" flag is pretty terrible for other reasons, but having crazy-strong sentry guns shooting you for looting the field or helping your friend who's been attacked while looting the field is adding extra terrible on top of the terrible that it brings to HS combat. Sounds awesome to me Tal
Yep, entirely killing off fights on LS gates* in favor of Suicide Gank style camping is a great thing.
*Not counting pure FW fights (meaning neut RR's gonna join FW in an interesting way, I think) EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
|
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 00:06:00 -
[551] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:How are wardecs broken? Also, how can anyone take you seriously when you post 48 times a day on average and most of it is nonsense? Break Can flipping? WTF? Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears. Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous.
Lmao! Well, you wanted PvP... A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Pipa Porto
782
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 00:33:00 -
[552] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:How are wardecs broken? Also, how can anyone take you seriously when you post 48 times a day on average and most of it is nonsense? Break Can flipping? WTF? Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears. Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous. Lmao! Well, you wanted PvP...
From the owner of the can. If they want their stuff, they need to protect it. That's how EVE works. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1273
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 01:57:00 -
[553] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears.
Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous. Lmao! Well, you wanted PvP... From the owner of the can. If they want their stuff, they need to protect it. That's how EVE works. Not if/when these changes go through
EVE... is changing. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Pipa Porto
789
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 02:05:00 -
[554] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears.
Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous. Lmao! Well, you wanted PvP... From the owner of the can. If they want their stuff, they need to protect it. That's how EVE works. Not if/when these changes go through EVE... is changing.
Especially with Soundwave calling continually nerfing HS PvP "jumping through hoops" compared to pushing the button to turn it off. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 03:02:00 -
[555] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:How are wardecs broken? Also, how can anyone take you seriously when you post 48 times a day on average and most of it is nonsense? Break Can flipping? WTF? Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears. Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous. Lmao! Well, you wanted PvP... From the owner of the can. If they want their stuff, they need to protect it. That's how EVE works.
well apparently you can't have your private little grief war against against noobs anymore. It adds risk to can flippers where there previously was none, if they chose a big enough noob. That is all that changes, it doesn't "break" anything. Cry more.
Personally I can't wait to blow up some can flippers who are dumb enough to flip when I'm in system. Can flipper tears >>>>>miner tears. This will be great for HS PVP.
THANK YOU CCP!! |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
526
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 04:09:00 -
[556] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:How are wardecs broken? Also, how can anyone take you seriously when you post 48 times a day on average and most of it is nonsense? Break Can flipping? WTF? Quit Corp > Disband Corp > Create New Corp > Wardec Disappears. Can Flipping currently exposes you to the owner of the can and the Owner's allies (at least those Allies the owner has bothered to formalize his relationship with). Globally flagging the thief for stealing from you is ridiculous. Lmao! Well, you wanted PvP... From the owner of the can. If they want their stuff, they need to protect it. That's how EVE works. well apparently you can't have your private little grief war against noobs anymore. It adds risk to can flippers where there previously was none, if they chose noobs for a target, which many exclusively do. Can flippers are not know for their bravery. Not everyone wants to pvp in this game right from the get go, its a sandbox game, and high sec is high sec for a reason. When you are a noob and you just want to do a little mining, you shouldn't have to worry about some douchebag stealing your ore risklessly, and you say. "oh, well, get some friends, hire some mercs, blah blah blah", no, **** you. I don't want to have to rely on ppl in this game to do every little thing just because some awful ******* can steal my ore at ZERO risk to himself, if someone is going to steal my ****, he better be taking some kind of risk in doing it. If i have to rely on other people to play a sandbox game, I won't play it. Increased risk to can flippers is all that changes, it doesn't "break" anything. Cry more. Personally I can't wait to blow up some can flippers who are dumb enough to flip when I'm in system. Can flipper tears >>>>>miner tears. This will be great for HS PVP. Previously you couldn't go around exclusively looking to blow up can flippers because you had to be in the same corp as the victim. Its about time the pvp in this game got attractive to real pvpers instead of being the mindless joke it has been for so long. THANK YOU CCP!! I agree, they want to be big bad outlaws flipping cans, mark them as criminals and let everyone blow there asses up. Welcome to real PvP Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
jatkot
North Star Networks
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 07:14:00 -
[557] - Quote
Looks good. But almost every pirate/gatecamper whines, wich is a result of a very good change from CCP and Greyscale
Keep on evolv Eve-online! |
Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 19:53:00 -
[558] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:well apparently you can't have your private little grief war against noobs anymore. It adds risk to can flippers where there previously was none, if they chose noobs for a target, which many exclusively do. Can flippers are not know for their bravery. Not everyone wants to pvp in this game right from the get go, its a sandbox game, and high sec is high sec for a reason. When you are a noob and you just want to do a little mining, you shouldn't have to worry about some douchebag stealing your ore risklessly, and you say. "oh, well, get some friends, hire some mercs, blah blah blah", no, **** you. I don't want to have to rely on ppl in this game to do every little thing just because some awful ******* can steal my ore at ZERO risk to himself, if someone is going to steal my ****, he better be taking some kind of risk in doing it. If i have to rely on other people to play a sandbox game, I won't play it. Increased risk to can flippers is all that changes, it doesn't "break" anything. Cry more.
Personally I can't wait to blow up some can flippers who are dumb enough to flip when I'm in system. Can flipper tears >>>>>miner tears. This will be great for HS PVP. Previously you couldn't go around exclusively looking to blow up can flippers because you had to be in the same corp as the victim. Its about time the pvp in this game got attractive to real pvpers instead of being the mindless joke it has been for so long.
THANK YOU CCP!!
Previously, there was whatever risk the person throwing valuables in the Trash was willing to provide.
If you don't want to PvP in the game from the get-go, there is a non-PvP server for you called SISI. Otherwise, by mining, you have involved yourself in the economy and are involved in PVP from the get go. For real newbies, there are the noob systems which have an outright ban on can-flipping.
High Security space is space where PVP is either consensual or costs the aggressor. That is all. Nothing about safety.
If you want the people stealing your Ore to run some risk, figure out how to set a trap. It's not hard.
So now we get to why you like this change. You want to be able to gank people without any risk to yourself. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2407
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 20:23:00 -
[559] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:High Security space is space where PVP is either consensual or costs the aggressor. That is all. Nothing about safety. What about mutual wars?
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝The daily saga of one man's quest to bring civilization to highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 21:25:00 -
[560] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:High Security space is space where PVP is either consensual or costs the aggressor. That is all. Nothing about safety. What about mutual wars?
Sounds pretty consensual to me. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
|
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 01:08:00 -
[561] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:well apparently you can't have your private little grief war against noobs anymore. It adds risk to can flippers where there previously was none, if they chose noobs for a target, which many exclusively do. Can flippers are not know for their bravery. Not everyone wants to pvp in this game right from the get go, its a sandbox game, and high sec is high sec for a reason. When you are a noob and you just want to do a little mining, you shouldn't have to worry about some douchebag stealing your ore risklessly, and you say. "oh, well, get some friends, hire some mercs, blah blah blah", no, **** you. I don't want to have to rely on ppl in this game to do every little thing just because some awful ******* can steal my ore at ZERO risk to himself, if someone is going to steal my ****, he better be taking some kind of risk in doing it. If i have to rely on other people to play a sandbox game, I won't play it. Increased risk to can flippers is all that changes, it doesn't "break" anything. Cry more.
Personally I can't wait to blow up some can flippers who are dumb enough to flip when I'm in system. Can flipper tears >>>>>miner tears. This will be great for HS PVP. Previously you couldn't go around exclusively looking to blow up can flippers because you had to be in the same corp as the victim. Its about time the pvp in this game got attractive to real pvpers instead of being the mindless joke it has been for so long.
THANK YOU CCP!! Previously, there was whatever risk the person throwing valuables in the Trash was willing to provide. If you don't want to PvP in the game from the get-go, there is a non-PvP server for you called SISI. Otherwise, by mining, you have involved yourself in the economy and are involved in PVP from the get go. For real newbies, there are the noob systems which have an outright ban on can-flipping. High Security space is space where PVP is either consensual or costs the aggressor. That is all. Nothing about safety. If you want the people stealing your Ore to run some risk, figure out how to set a trap. It's not hard. So now we get to why you like this change. You want to be able to gank people without any risk to yourself.
Pipa, your pointless trolling is really obvious now. I've never seen such backwards thinking as this post. Its not even a good troll to just say completely moronic things that aren't based in truth at all, and all you are doing is causing people who are superior and smarter than you to come in and correct you. I suggest you try harder, or get a life. 50 posts a day average for the past 3 weeks? |
Fournone
Gallente Trade Union The Jagged Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 01:56:00 -
[562] - Quote
/Signed
Don't get a chance to fly around in low sec much these days. But I'll be damned if CCP breaks low sec more. |
Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 02:32:00 -
[563] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:well apparently you can't have your private little grief war against noobs anymore. It adds risk to can flippers where there previously was none, if they chose noobs for a target, which many exclusively do. Can flippers are not know for their bravery. Not everyone wants to pvp in this game right from the get go, its a sandbox game, and high sec is high sec for a reason. When you are a noob and you just want to do a little mining, you shouldn't have to worry about some douchebag stealing your ore risklessly, and you say. "oh, well, get some friends, hire some mercs, blah blah blah", no, **** you. I don't want to have to rely on ppl in this game to do every little thing just because some awful ******* can steal my ore at ZERO risk to himself, if someone is going to steal my ****, he better be taking some kind of risk in doing it. If i have to rely on other people to play a sandbox game, I won't play it. Increased risk to can flippers is all that changes, it doesn't "break" anything. Cry more.
Personally I can't wait to blow up some can flippers who are dumb enough to flip when I'm in system. Can flipper tears >>>>>miner tears. This will be great for HS PVP. Previously you couldn't go around exclusively looking to blow up can flippers because you had to be in the same corp as the victim. Its about time the pvp in this game got attractive to real pvpers instead of being the mindless joke it has been for so long.
THANK YOU CCP!! Previously, there was whatever risk the person throwing valuables in the Trash was willing to provide. If you don't want to PvP in the game from the get-go, there is a non-PvP server for you called SISI. Otherwise, by mining, you have involved yourself in the economy and are involved in PVP from the get go. For real newbies, there are the noob systems which have an outright ban on can-flipping. High Security space is space where PVP is either consensual or costs the aggressor. That is all. Nothing about safety. If you want the people stealing your Ore to run some risk, figure out how to set a trap. It's not hard. So now we get to why you like this change. You want to be able to gank people without any risk to yourself. Pipa, your pointless trolling is really obvious now. I've never seen such backwards thinking as this post. Its not even a good troll to just say completely moronic things that aren't based in truth at all, and all you are doing is causing people who are superior and smarter than you to come in and correct you. I suggest you try harder, or get a life. 50 posts a day average for the past 3 weeks?
So.... no rebuttal then. Good.
/thread. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1273
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 04:37:00 -
[564] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:From the owner of the can. If they want their stuff, they need to protect it. That's how EVE works. Not if/when these changes go through EVE... is changing. Especially with Soundwave calling continually nerfing HS PvP "jumping through hoops" compared to pushing the button to turn it off. There's an interesting article on themittani which has something to say about that very phrase. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 04:52:00 -
[565] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:well apparently you can't have your private little grief war against noobs anymore. It adds risk to can flippers where there previously was none, if they chose noobs for a target, which many exclusively do. Can flippers are not know for their bravery. Not everyone wants to pvp in this game right from the get go, its a sandbox game, and high sec is high sec for a reason. When you are a noob and you just want to do a little mining, you shouldn't have to worry about some douchebag stealing your ore risklessly, and you say. "oh, well, get some friends, hire some mercs, blah blah blah", no, **** you. I don't want to have to rely on ppl in this game to do every little thing just because some awful ******* can steal my ore at ZERO risk to himself, if someone is going to steal my ****, he better be taking some kind of risk in doing it. If i have to rely on other people to play a sandbox game, I won't play it. Increased risk to can flippers is all that changes, it doesn't "break" anything. Cry more.
Personally I can't wait to blow up some can flippers who are dumb enough to flip when I'm in system. Can flipper tears >>>>>miner tears. This will be great for HS PVP. Previously you couldn't go around exclusively looking to blow up can flippers because you had to be in the same corp as the victim. Its about time the pvp in this game got attractive to real pvpers instead of being the mindless joke it has been for so long.
THANK YOU CCP!! Previously, there was whatever risk the person throwing valuables in the Trash was willing to provide. If you don't want to PvP in the game from the get-go, there is a non-PvP server for you called SISI. Otherwise, by mining, you have involved yourself in the economy and are involved in PVP from the get go. For real newbies, there are the noob systems which have an outright ban on can-flipping. High Security space is space where PVP is either consensual or costs the aggressor. That is all. Nothing about safety. If you want the people stealing your Ore to run some risk, figure out how to set a trap. It's not hard. So now we get to why you like this change. You want to be able to gank people without any risk to yourself. Pipa, your pointless trolling is really obvious now. I've never seen such backwards thinking as this post. Its not even a good troll to just say completely moronic things that aren't based in truth at all, and all you are doing is causing people who are superior and smarter than you to come in and correct you. I suggest you try harder, or get a life. 50 posts a day average for the past 3 weeks? So.... no rebuttal then. Good. /thread.
Ill explain it simply so even you can understand. There is supposed to be risk vs reward in this game and currently can flippers take zero risk targeting newer players. This is getting fixed soon with crimewatch. Its unrealistic to expect newer players to have people protecting them while they are mining in their frigates, that is just stupid.
A jetcan is not only a trash can, it serves as a storage facility for ore for noobs. A newer player takes a risk to save time by using a jetcan, risk vs reward. However the canflipper that picks on noobs, doesn't risk anything because he makes sure there is no potential for threats. Now that anyone can attack flippers, the risk vs reward applies to both parties. That is just how EVE is. l2p and adapt like a real player instead of crying everytime the game gets a little more challenging. ,Its about time, thank you CCP. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1273
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 04:55:00 -
[566] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Ill explain it simply so even you can understand. There is supposed to be risk vs reward in this game and currently can flippers take zero risk targeting newer players. This is getting fixed soon with crimewatch. Its unrealistic to expect newer players to have people protecting them while they are mining in their frigates, that is just stupid.
A jetcan is not only a trash can, it serves as a storage facility for ore for noobs. A newer player takes a risk to save time by using a jetcan, risk vs reward. However the canflipper that picks on noobs, doesn't risk anything because he makes sure there is no potential for threats. Now that anyone can attack flippers, the risk vs reward applies to both parties. That is just how EVE is. l2p and adapt like a real player instead of crying everytime the game gets a little more challenging. ,Its about time, thank you CCP. Sounds good to me. Not like I was opposed to it,
Keep up the hard work on highsec PvP, these changes are great for the health of all parties involved. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 05:07:00 -
[567] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Ill explain it simply so even you can understand. There is supposed to be risk vs reward in this game and currently can flippers take zero risk targeting newer players. This is getting fixed soon with crimewatch. Its unrealistic to expect newer players to have people protecting them while they are mining in their frigates, that is just stupid.
A jetcan is not only a trash can, it serves as a storage facility for ore for noobs. A newer player takes a risk to save time by using a jetcan, risk vs reward. However the canflipper that picks on noobs, doesn't risk anything because he makes sure there is no potential for threats, the can flippers . Now that anyone can attack flippers, the risk vs reward applies to both parties. That is just how EVE is. l2p and adapt like a real player instead of crying "PVP IS BROKAN!" everytime the game gets a little more challenging. ,Its about time, thank you CCP.
CCP has a fairly clear definition of a newbie deserving of protection. That is: Someone in a Newbie system (where can flipping is banned). It's not unrealistic to expect new players to find newbie friendly corps to join (there are plenty).
So you're saying that a canflipper does run some risk, but mitigates it by limiting his target selection (and thus potential reward)? Just like the newbie miner can mitigate his risk of canflipping by using secured containers, limiting his area selection and potential reward? A couple of GSCs can easily keep up with a mining frig's output. More importantly, the newbie can find locations that aren't frequented by canflippers.
Crimewatch means (for the canflipping issue*), that the newly involved third party runs no risk, because he's able to bring anything he wants to the table, while the ebil canflipper's stuck with whatever Billy the third party pointed him in. You're just shifting the riskless PVP over one level.
I never said "PVP is Broken," and I'd like you to find that quote and link it if you want to attribute it to me.
*Crimewatch is giant, unneeded buff to HS carebears in plenty of other ways as well. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 05:30:00 -
[568] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Ill explain it simply so even you can understand. There is supposed to be risk vs reward in this game and currently can flippers take zero risk targeting newer players. This is getting fixed soon with crimewatch. Its unrealistic to expect casual new players, (including trial) players to have people protecting them while they are mining in their frigates, that is just stupid.
A jetcan is not only a trash can, it serves as a storage facility for ore for noobs. A newer player takes a risk to save time by using a jetcan, risk vs reward. However the canflipper that picks on noobs, doesn't risk anything because he makes sure there is no potential for threats, the can flippers . Now that anyone can attack flippers, the risk vs reward applies to both parties. That is just how EVE is. l2p and adapt like a real player instead of crying "PVP IS BROKAN!" everytime the game gets a little more challenging. ,Its about time, thank you CCP. CCP has a fairly clear definition of a newbie deserving of protection. That is: Someone in a Newbie system (where can flipping is banned). It's not unrealistic to expect new players to find newbie friendly corps to join (there are plenty). .
I bolded the the parts you missed since your reading comprehension fails nearly as much as your comprehension of what EVE is supposed to be.
Crimewatch is going to be great for High sec pvp, it will create a new pvp profession, the FLIPPER RIPPER! Can flippers want pvp? you give them pvp! Seal clubbing days are over, baddies! BOOM HEADSHOT! |
Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 05:41:00 -
[569] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote: I bolded the the parts you missed since your reading comprehension fails nearly as much as your comprehension of what EVE is supposed to be.
Crimewatch is going to be great for High sec pvp, it will create a new pvp profession, the FLIPPER RIPPER! Can flippers want pvp? you give them pvp! Seal clubbing days are over, baddies! BOOM HEADSHOT!
If you're casual/new and want protection, work in starter systems (where can fipping is banned), or use GSCs (which can't be flipped), or find a corp that accepts casual/new players.
So you want a HS profession that provides risk free PVP whenever you want? Because you're upset that a HS profession you don't like has (as you claim) access to risk free PVP whenever you want? Okay...
Crimewatch will be terrible for HS PVP, screwing with 1v1s, Can Flipping, and Suicide Ganking (at least, for profit ganks). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 06:20:00 -
[570] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:So you want a HS profession that provides risk free PVP whenever you want? Because you're upset that a HS profession you don't like has (as you claim) access to risk free PVP whenever you want? Okay...
Wrong again.
Hunters of Can flippers aren't pvping isn't risk free, canflippers have guns and can their own backup, don't be a moron. Canflippers were the only ones able to operate risk free, CCP is fixing that. A defenders advantage in high sec makes perfect sense.
Apparently CCP doesn't agree with your narrow minded philosophy. I'm so glad they are forcing can flippers to finally take risks now. Can't wait to blow up some can flippers in my as a Flipper Ripper, the new pvp profession. Everyone knows that can flippers tears are so much delicious than miner tears. High sec pvp is going to be GREAT! And no more awful greifers driving noobs out of the game of course. Crimewatch is brilliant. |
|
Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 06:25:00 -
[571] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:So you want a HS profession that provides risk free PVP whenever you want? Because you're upset that a HS profession you don't like has (as you claim) access to risk free PVP whenever you want? Okay... Wrong again. Hunters of Can flippers aren't pvping isn't risk free, canflippers have guns and can their own backup, don't be a moron. Canflippers were the only ones able to operate risk free, CCP is fixing that. Defenders advantage in high sec makes perfect sense against greifers. Apparently CCP doesn't agree with your narrow minded philosophy. I'm so glad they are forcing can flippers to finally take risks now. Can't wait to blow up some can flippers in my Flipper Ripper, my new pvp profession. Everyone knows that can flippers tears are so much delicious than miner tears. High sec pvp is going to be GREAT! Crimewatch is brilliant.
Nope. Look into the crimewatch mechanics. People shooting at suspects can only be shot at by the suspect they are shooting at. No calling in backup for the suspects.
Canflippers (even if we accept your claim that they're EVE Criminals) are not griefers. CCP's made that very clear.
Defenders already have every advantage. Starting with the absolute ability to decline the fight.
Again, you're just excited about a risk-free PvP source.
Finally [insert rest of my last post here] since you feel like skipping most of my post just because it's inconvenient for you to rebut. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 06:33:00 -
[572] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:
. People shooting at suspects can only be shot at by the suspect they are shooting at. No calling in backup for the suspects.
Even your first line is easily proven as being wrong.
There is nothing to stop suspects for using their own alts and corpmates in the fight.
Sit down pipa, you just look like a complete fool at this point. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1696
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 06:37:00 -
[573] - Quote
I remember when there was real piracy in lowsec.
Is the approach that CCP is planning on a bit ham-handed? I would have to agree.
But we also have to admit that the way kills are gained in this game also got ham-handed.
It's kind of like that law in most US states for hunters that states you cannot have a magazine exceeding 5 rounds. Why is that? Many people wonder. It's to discourage people from going yank and crank on a running deer after they miss their first shot. This is hazardous.
My point is, that law exists because it happened too many times.
Low sec and gate camping may have once been viable. I remember lowsec in better days. But, like hunters with 30 round magazines doing the yank and crank, the gate camps have departed from "piracy" and degenerated into "kill everything that moves".
Lowsec has become like the parking lot around the Mall in the movie "Dawn of the Dead". Nice and quiet, until some living flesh shows up.
What's the point? There is no point in that.
So the real trouble with lowsec is that it has become pointless. It had a point, piracy, back when it was possible. But it's now the parking lot full of zombies, just as AFK as high sec miners until "the call goes up" so 8 Hurricanes and the sensor boosted intie can go after that T1 cruiser.
Did the pirates in actual history (earth) kill everything that moved? The Carribean would have been a wasteland if they did that. There would be no investement and trade in the region.
Back in they day, the "pirates" didn't bother with noobs - not much. Sometimes you got blapped. But I missioned all over low in my noob days. The idea back then was, let the little nooblet earn his wings, and then someday when he's doing that 15KM gauntlet to the gate (perchance no WTZ BM) , the little nooblet is a big boy now, and DOES know better, or will in a moment.
Now it's "someone jumped in!!!1! lock lock woot get the pod get the pod LOL NOOB GBTW lozer phag!!1!" pfft
Mature people, knowing all of the rules of engagement to such people, still chose not to have their time sullied by the presence of such mindset. I can probably get across the trailer park and fight better than everybody I meet, but it's still a fight on a short bus where everybody is going to the same special little school house.
Why bother?
I gave up gates. I use WH to get where I want to go. Just spent 2 months in deep null. Got a hole back to k space in lowsec. WH spat me into the system, and here comes the brigade, wondering how I got there and a small fleet jumping back and forth through the one gate they thought I was going to use (as if I was in a hurry - why are people so damned stupid?). 10 people in T2 and T3 trying to catch my T1 Cyclone (yet it survived null, alone, with scratches).
Then I remember the time someone tried to station camp me with a Nyx....
They didn't get me, but it still feels pathetic. Makes me wonder what kind of game I am playing, and with what kind of people.
The real pirates of this game are long gone. Maybe the OP is a holdout from this era and has a legitimate gripe. CCP may be trying to fix a symptom, not a problem in itself. But we already have years of countless "low is broken" threads that appear to be forgotten anyway.
A sorrry situation all around. |
Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 06:40:00 -
[574] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
. People shooting at suspects can only be shot at by the suspect they are shooting at. No calling in backup for the suspects.
Even your first line is easily proven as being wrong. There is nothing to stop suspects for using their own alts and corpmates in the fight. Sit down pipa, accept that you lost this argument. Accept being a loser. You've got nothing.
Nope. The crimewatch information has been clear on the fact that Suspects will only be able to shoot at those who shoot at them (and likely not even to Logi of those shooting them, though they backed off from that). Nobody else will be able to join in without CONCORD intervention. So, let's assume the suspect brings in RR, you can keep him tackled until you get reinforcements to tackle all these free Logi killmails.
So, to recap: Suspects: Can be shot by everyone. People shooting at suspects: Can be shot only by those they're shooting at. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
801
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 06:49:00 -
[575] - Quote
The idea of SUSPECT flagged pilots getting shot by LOW SEC gate guns is ******* stupid.
Does that mean that HI SEC suspects get shot by gate guns too?
It not, then the LOW sec ones shouldn't shoot suspects either.
Completely awful.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
529
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 06:53:00 -
[576] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:The idea of SUSPECT flagged pilots getting shot by LOW SEC gate guns is ******* stupid.
Does that mean that HI SEC suspects get shot by gate guns too?
It not, then the LOW sec ones shouldn't shoot suspects either.
Completely awful.
The idea is sound
If you are a suspect law enforcement shoot at you.
You should be bitching if you get shot at and you are not a suspect. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1273
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 07:02:00 -
[577] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:The idea of SUSPECT flagged pilots getting shot by LOW SEC gate guns is ******* stupid.
Does that mean that HI SEC suspects get shot by gate guns too?
It not, then the LOW sec ones shouldn't shoot suspects either.
Completely awful. Maybe highsec suspects should be shot by gate guns. Just because you don't trigger CONCORD doesn't mean the gate guns should give you a free pass.
Good idea ! Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 07:05:00 -
[578] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
. People shooting at suspects can only be shot at by the suspect they are shooting at. No calling in backup for the suspects.
Even your first line is easily proven as being wrong. There is nothing to stop suspects for using their own alts and corpmates in the fight. Sit down pipa, accept that you lost this argument. Accept being a loser. You've got nothing. Derp.
reread the bolded line. And, ever heard of defenders advantage? Its high sec, and the bottom line is, CCP doesn't agree with your half-baked myopic vision of what you think EVE is supposed to be. You've got nothing. |
Pipa Porto
795
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Posted - 2012.08.18 07:06:00 -
[579] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:The idea of SUSPECT flagged pilots getting shot by LOW SEC gate guns is ******* stupid.
Does that mean that HI SEC suspects get shot by gate guns too?
It not, then the LOW sec ones shouldn't shoot suspects either.
Completely awful. Maybe highsec suspects should be shot by gate guns. Just because you don't trigger CONCORD doesn't mean the gate guns should give you a free pass. Good idea !
Bonus Nerf to Freighter/Hauler ganking.
What a great idea. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Pipa Porto
795
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Posted - 2012.08.18 07:08:00 -
[580] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
. People shooting at suspects can only be shot at by the suspect they are shooting at. No calling in backup for the suspects.
Even your first line is easily proven as being wrong. There is nothing to stop suspects for using their own alts and corpmates in the fight. Sit down pipa, accept that you lost this argument. Accept being a loser. You've got nothing. Derp. reread the bolded line. And, ever heard of defenders advantage? Its high sec, and the bottom line is, CCP doesn't agree with your half-baked myopic vision of what you think EVE is supposed to be. You've got nothing.
You mean, besides CONCORD? You're right.
But, by that reasoning, there's nothing stopping anti-canflippers now from joining in fights against canflipper's they don't have aggro on. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
529
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 07:09:00 -
[581] - Quote
Just as a funny idea why don't the pirates go hunt the pirates? or is it a problem that pirates might shoot back Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Pipa Porto
795
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Posted - 2012.08.18 07:10:00 -
[582] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Just as a funny idea why don't the pirates go hunt the pirates? or is it a problem that pirates might shoot back
This change will prevent pirates from hunting pirates, cause the Gate guns will kill everyone in short order. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 07:10:00 -
[583] - Quote
Maybe stargates, should just have their own cans out, filled with oil and other parts. Then you can can flip them, and pvp against their sentries. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
529
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 07:11:00 -
[584] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Just as a funny idea why don't the pirates go hunt the pirates? or is it a problem that pirates might shoot back This change will prevent pirates from hunting pirates, cause the Gate guns will kill everyone in short order. Well maybe they could stalk each other in belts, around planets or moons for a change.
Edit: They say a change is as good as a holiday, so say thank you to CCP you pirates Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 07:23:00 -
[585] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
. People shooting at suspects can only be shot at by the suspect they are shooting at. No calling in backup for the suspects.
Even your first line is easily proven as being wrong. There is nothing to stop suspects for using their own alts and corpmates in the fight. Sit down pipa, accept that you lost this argument. Accept being a loser. You've got nothing. Derp. reread the bolded line. And, ever heard of defenders advantage? Its high sec, and the bottom line is, CCP doesn't agree with your half-baked myopic vision of what you think EVE is supposed to be. You've got nothing. there's nothing stopping anti-canflippers now from joining in fights against canflipper's they don't have aggro on.
yet again you display your limited thinking.
thats the risk you take in being a can flipper now, its going to get fixed with crimewatch. Its called risk vs reward, this is EVE. Deal with it. Can flippers will still be able to attack anyone that attacks them. There is nothing to cry about.
I guess you don't understand the game enough to realize that CCP is fixing can flipping and all this patch does is benefit the game. I'm pretty sure CCP is making EVE, not you. thank goodness.
Additionally, can flippers have always been reliant on others attacking them. To now complain about can flippers not being able to initiate attacks in high sec is pretty moronic. Adapt and L2P, scrub. Seal clubbing days are over!
I'm off to bed now so have fun arguing with everyone about how you think the sky should be black. |
Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 07:40:00 -
[586] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
You mean, besides CONCORD? You're right.
But, by that reasoning, there's nothing stopping anti-canflippers now from joining in fights against canflipper's they don't have aggro on.
yet again you display your limited thinking. thats the risk you take in being a can flipper now, its going to get fixed with crimewatch. Its called risk vs reward, this is EVE. Deal with it. Can flippers will still be able to attack anyone that attacks them. There is nothing to cry about. I guess you don't understand the game enough to realize that CCP is fixing can flipping and all this patch does is benefit the game. I'm pretty sure CCP is making EVE, not you. thank goodness. Additionally, can flippers have always been reliant on others attacking them. To now complain about can flippers not being able to initiate attacks in high sec is pretty moronic. Adapt and L2P, scrub. Seal clubbing days are over! I'm off to bed now so have fun arguing with everyone about how you think the sky should be black.
Good job with the out of context quoting. Try again tomorrow.
The Crimewatch patch exclusively benefits carebears. It's yet another in a long line of nerfs to HS PVP. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1273
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 07:47:00 -
[587] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:The Crimewatch patch exclusively benefits carebears. It's yet another in a long line of nerfs to HS PVP. Highsec PvP, getting all the love and attention from CCP. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 07:55:00 -
[588] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:The Crimewatch patch exclusively benefits carebears. It's yet another in a long line of nerfs to HS PVP. Highsec PvP, getting all the love and attention from CCP.
Fun Fact: Crimewatch Safe Freighting limit becomes 5+b (breakeven cost to gank ~1b for the Nados, ~1.5b for the Suicide Suspect Freighter, doubled to account for 50% drop rate). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
smokeAjoint
No Self Esteem Imperius Legio Victrix
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 11:42:00 -
[589] - Quote
/Signed. -álegalize it |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
659
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 13:27:00 -
[590] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Just as a funny idea why don't the pirates go hunt the pirates? or is it a problem that pirates might shoot back This change will prevent pirates from hunting pirates, cause the Gate guns will kill everyone in short order.
Null sec has no gatge gun, this is a good news. Low/0 sec characters don't belong to high sec, they should have been banned for a long while from there. It's about consequences of a choice, witch seems they don't have much other than lol consequences and then cry on forums.
I'm far more concerned about low sec low/null SS residents, those in high sec can biomass or gtfo I don't care and the game will be much better without them: more dudes tired of high sec grinding is more dudes willing to come to low/null, thus more dudes to play with or shoot at.
For low sec low/null SS residents the system should remain as it was before, they only get shot if they get aggression timers. Then gate guns, well there are other tactics they can use, smart players don't see much of a problem about this. brb |
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Pipa Porto
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 21:25:00 -
[591] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Just as a funny idea why don't the pirates go hunt the pirates? or is it a problem that pirates might shoot back This change will prevent pirates from hunting pirates, cause the Gate guns will kill everyone in short order. Null sec has no gatge gun, this is a good news. Low/0 sec characters don't belong to high sec, they should have been banned for a long while from there. It's about consequences of a choice, witch seems they don't have much other than lol consequences and then cry on forums. I'm far more concerned about low sec low/null SS residents, those in high sec can biomass or gtfo I don't care and the game will be much better without them: more dudes tired of high sec grinding is more dudes willing to come to low/null, thus more dudes to play with or shoot at. For low sec low/null SS residents the system should remain as it was before, they only get shot if they get aggression timers. Then gate guns, well there are other tactics they can use, smart players don't see much of a problem about this.
If you want to prevent Outlaws from entering HS, you are free to do so. They are outside of CONCORD's protection. That is the consequence of their choice. They also get chased by Faction police, limiting the types of ships they can effectively fly. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
drunk asfck
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 12:37:00 -
[592] - Quote
Signed
gate guns are fine as they are how about fixing some stuff rather than messing with things that dnt need it
someone sack this greyskull dude ffs
only changes to gate guns imo is you should be able to destroy them |
Scott PiIgrim
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 13:14:00 -
[593] - Quote
I vote for not doing anything with sentries! |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
534
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 13:20:00 -
[594] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote: I'm far more concerned about low sec low/null SS residents, those in high sec can biomass or gtfo I don't care and the game will be much better without them:
Given the numbers of hi-sec dwellers, if they gtfo there is no game. Well CCP would benefit from Dust being linked to EvE, so I suppose it could probably afford its server costs but definitely no devs to fix anything. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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