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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:09:00 -
[1411]
 Originally by: Hemerson
U are the living prove that we should keep the learning sklills. So people like u will play some thing else, like trancendence
So you agree, then, since you can't actually think of a single counter-argument and have to resort to abuse in the vain hope of devaluing what I write.
Wellà Thanks, I suppose ù it's always nice with support, even if it is of a rather oblique kind.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Capsuleer Newton
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:15:00 -
[1412]
hehehe, "Adapt or Die", i've heard that a lot of times in the past, when CCP implemented the 11% NPC Corp Tax, the Tax i deem was ok, but not the notion behind it, that seemingly, everyone is being pushed out of NPC Corps. We're "carebears", we hate PvP, but we LOVE the PvE content....
"Adapt or Die", they often say carebear tears is pretty sweet, now i know they're wrong. Oldtimer's tears are much much tastier... 
"Adapt or Die!"
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Hemerson
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:16:00 -
[1413]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Hemerson
U are the living prove that we should keep the learning sklills. So people like u will play some thing else, like trancendence
So you agree, then, since you can't actually think of a single counter-argument and have to resort to abuse in the vain hope of devaluing what I write.
Wellà Thanks, I suppose ù it's always nice with support, even if it is of a rather oblique kind.
U are wellcome. I think you are right. U shoud stay. I should find somethig else to play. Have fun.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:23:00 -
[1414]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/11/2010 21:24:48
Hey look at all the bitter *******s in this thread, whining about how Eve is becoming 'too easy' and 'too accessible'. Obviously CCP should just get rid of the whole 'GUI' and let us program one ourselves if we want one. But really, why anyone would want more than just text?
new_eve_ui = """
You are in warp to a belt. You will arrive in 4 seconds.
$ look at local
The display containing people in local has four pictures.
1. A dark haired brutor winks at you from behind dark sun glasses. His eyes are a hypnotic brown as he undresses you with his xray eyes. His name is TSA Agent
2. BUY YOUR ISK HERE AT www.****-off.net! Her name is asdgfwe34dfsf
3. A Caldari Achura is here. His name is UglyMofo
4. A Caldari Achura is here. Her name is Liang Nuren.
$
You have arrived at the belt. A named 'LOLNOTBAIT' is here.
$ target Drake
You begin targeting the Drake.
$ act scram
You have no target. Scrambler primed.
$ orb Drake 5000
You begin to orbit the Drake at 5000 meters. You are at 200 meters currently.
$
The Drake warp targets you.
The Drake warp scrambles you.
The Drake webs you.
$ Attack
You have no target. Weapons primed.
$
You target the Drake named 'LOLNOTBAIT'
You warp scramble the Drake named 'LOLNOTBAIT'
Your Neutron Blasters barely scratch the Drake named 'LOLNOTBAIT'
$ Act web
You web the Drake
$
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
$
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Hurricane comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
An Onyx comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Broadsword comes out of war 2184 meters away.
$ lo
A Curse comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Curse comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Curse comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
An Arazu comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
$ look at lo
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
A Drake comes out of warp 2184 meters away.
$ look at local
The display containing people in local has one hundred forty six pictures.
1. ...
"""
-Liang
Originally by: Hemerson
U are wellcome. I think you are right. U shoud stay. I should find somethig else to play. Have fun.
We obviously aren't losing anything of value here.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Rupicolous
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:32:00 -
[1415]
It's obviously part of a larger scheme to uproot the player base which controls eve's economy.
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zoltar pdp
WALLTREIPERS
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:32:00 -
[1416]
TLRD: we don't have time to do things properly in the game you are paying to play, instead we are using your money to build other games you will have to purchase.
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Capsuleer Newton
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:35:00 -
[1417]
Originally by: Rupicolous
It's obviously part of a larger scheme to uproot the player base which controls eve's economy.
A the grand conspiracy.... Roswell? 
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Krome Dome
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:41:00 -
[1418]
Edited by: Krome Dome on 26/11/2010 21:42:34
Forgive me if this question has been posted already. But the way CCP makes it sound everyone's AP will be reset to 20/20/20/20/19 when they implement the change. My question is will this reset neural remapping.If a player just remapped last month will they get a grace and have a chance to change the remap or will the changes conform to each individuals remap. Thanks in advance for al the help.
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Tora Nevaal
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:43:00 -
[1419]
We're going about this all wrong. How about instead of removing training books altogether, we just need to make them more accessible to new players. What we need to do is take out a lot of the polysyllabic words and replace them with more pictures. We could also add activities to the books like connect-the-dots, word searches and coloring. Then everyone's a winner.
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Lliabron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:47:00 -
[1420]
Quote:
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 26/11/2010 20:51:51
[How have they earned it? How is it stolen? People got what they wanted from those ISKies. They no longer exist in the economy because they have served their purpose and been flushed out of the system. Their value replacement have been inserted and used according to purpose.
It doesn't cost players anything, because there is nothing left that holds that value. It has all been cycled through the system and, if anything, people are already being given what they paid for through the SP reimbursement and attribute addition.
Oh, and no: PLEX don't work that way, so no player money was lost or stolen either.
Tippia, you somehow present things which should not be as something appropriate:
-ISKies spent in-game should not be vanishing without trace, unless spent on PLEX. That is how it should be. If you spent it on skillbook that will lose all value (regardless whether injected or still in your queue), those ISKies effectivelly disappeared and player were taken from what they bought for them.
-Attribute addition is not being given for the skills injected. So they are completelly unrelated and in no way a compensation.
-SP reimbursement is nice thing, fair, but has nothing to do with skills injecting.
Quote:
Originally by: Lliabron
EVE is sandbox game. Please stop telling me how shoult I play it.
I'm not ù I'm simply telling you that the (meta)gameplay you've invented for yourself is nothing that the game provides, so you can't blame it or the developers for changes that mess up with your personal externally invented and tacked-on ideas.
It was not invented by myself. Chosing upskilling now, later, only towards certain lever, or never was viable choice of game and completely transparent option everybody was making. I'm OK with it being removed. But I'm not OK with no compensation for the effort spent on ISK making. No matter whether that amount is that significant for me at this point (it is not nor is it completely insignificant, but it's very annoying).
Quote:
Then this change won't matter, and "being competitive" has nothing to do with what other people gain in the patch. Your training at the same speed as they do makes no difference because you can still catch up and thus become competitive in terms of in-game performance. The only thing you'll have problem competing with is total SP. The only "competitive advantage" you lose in the switch-over is the ability to accrue total SP faster than some ù all other advantages still (as always) come down to the balancing act between specialisation and generalisation.
I lose both the ability to accrue ISKies faster as well as ISKies invested in these skills.
Quote:
What you're doing is essentially the same as someone who collects black ships and considers having more of those a sign of being a better black-collector than others, and then complain when CCP decide to reskin a couple of ships so that your collection is no longer optimal (or even, oh the horror, tainted by green ships!). Have CCP screwed you over? No ù they've improved the graphical design and look of the game. You screwed yourself by inventing and competing in a metagame that makes zero difference in the game itself, and which CCP doesn't know about (or care about for that same reason) and thus will not take into consideration when making their improvements.
Your comparing of completelly WAD skillset and something not anyhow implemented is nothing but ignorance. I will provide better comparison:
-CCP would eliminate Minmatar faction ship commands skills, and give back the skillpoints but not the skillbooks value. And you would tell someone with minmatar subsystems and titan trained all up he has not lost the ISKies because he will be compensated by the skillpoints. And by the fact that skill trainings will now be faster. This is your logic. I disagree.
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Dmoney3788
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.26 21:48:00 -
[1421]
Originally by: Krome Dome
Edited by: Krome Dome on 26/11/2010 21:42:34
Forgive me if this question has been posted already. But the way CCP makes it sound everyone's AP will be reset to 20/20/20/20/19 when they implement the change. My question is will this reset neural remapping.If a player just remapped last month will they get a grace and have a chance to change the remap or will the changes conform to each individuals remap. Thanks in advance for al the help.
Nah I believe the base attributes that you can't shuffle around is what is getting 12 more points added to them, and then the part where your learning skills are, are removed.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:08:00 -
[1422]
Edited by: Tippia on 26/11/2010 22:11:51
Originally by: zoltar pdp
TLRD: we don't have time to do things properly in the game you are paying to play, instead we are using your money to build other games you will have to purchase.
Welcome to software product development. It's CCP's money, not ours, and as much as we might disagree with how they do it, it's theirs to spend as they like.
Originally by: Lliabron
Your comparing of completelly WAD skillset and something not anyhow implemented is nothing but ignorance.
No, you quite missed the point there. I'm comparing your approach to skill training with someone else's approach to ship buying. You collect SP to "be competitive" and claim that you require learning skills (or, more accurately: higher learning skills than most) to be that. For that to be true, your collection must be about total SP, because if it's just skills in general, you can be competitive just fine without them.
In other words, just like that guy collecting black ships, you have created a meta-game and a meta-game-competition for yourself, and now you're angry because CCP has upset the rules of this game.
Quote:
I will provide better comparison:
No, that's not what I'm saying, because you're missing part of the reimbursement.
Quote:
Tippia, you somehow present things which should not be as something appropriate:
-ISKies spent in-game should not be vanishing without trace, unless spent on PLEX.
Yes it should, otherwise the economy goes to hell in a handbasket in roughly zero seconds flat. The EVE economy is totally reliant on the faucets and sinks that add and remove ISK from the game. But sure, they should not be sunk without trace, nor are they: the value was transferred to the books. The books were then injected and the value transferred to your SP and AP. That SP and AP is being reimbursed, so there is no need to reimburse the ISK. At no point along that chain has value been lost. Some will gain more than they had before, but that doesn't mean that you have been robbed of your value.
Quote:
-SP reimbursement is nice thing, fair, but has nothing to do with skills injecting.
Incorrect. It is a direct result of the skills being injected.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Dinak Khnid
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:23:00 -
[1423]
What happens to our implants that were purchased to augment the learning skills? Some of us have invested heavily in implants. Those implants were purchased with Long-term skill training in mind. It isn't feasible to expect me to accept a replacement of learning skills and no replacement of the billions in isk spent on implants solely for the purpose of increasing the learning skills.
The +3's that are replaced with the +4's to 5's. This is not an equitable exchange you implement here. If the noobs want to catch up do like the rest of us, do the time and pay that dime.
This is not acceptable nor justifiable.
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Kergula
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:30:00 -
[1424]
Edited by: Kergula on 26/11/2010 22:30:12
Originally by: Dinak Khnid
What happens to our implants that were purchased to augment the learning skills? Some of us have invested heavily in implants.
Read the blog, implants are going nowhere, in fact, with the learning skills being removed and the base training speed being increased, implants are, with remaps, the way that you will differentiate your training rates from other players.
edit:fix quoting
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Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:34:00 -
[1425]
Originally by: Hemerson
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Hemerson
U are the living prove that we should keep the learning sklills. So people like u will play some thing else, like trancendence
So you agree, then, since you can't actually think of a single counter-argument and have to resort to abuse in the vain hope of devaluing what I write.
Wellà Thanks, I suppose ù it's always nice with support, even if it is of a rather oblique kind.
U are wellcome. I think you are right. U shoud stay. I should find somethig else to play. Have fun.
do that. and your stuff? i would always remember you kindly.
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Rupicolous
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:38:00 -
[1426]
Just start dismantling this game piece by piece till you have either a copy of a competitive MMO's franchise or a diluted, hybrid of everything else out there.
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:39:00 -
[1427]
I wonder how it would have worked out if you were unable to train learning skills during the boost period as a new player? That way new players wouldn't be burned out by starting with boring learning skills, they would learn fun skills at a high rate and when the boost period is over they can train up the learning skills with a similar speed to older players.
Of course this is a moot point now, but still do you think that would have worked?
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:42:00 -
[1428]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Thorleifer
so are we getting a remap or not? it is a simple question, I think it is only fair to give us a free remap.
There will be no free remap as remaps are not being changed.
As CCP Greyscale has already said, if it is not in the blog it is not happening.
I like the learning removal, but, everyone with a timer on their remap is being ****d in skill training. The sp compensation only covers what I already trained. So at the end of the day, everyone with an active timer on their neural remap is being robbed off sp? Am I missing something?
I'm correct in assuming that my main (currently at 30.8 Charisma with +5's plugged in) will drop to 19(+5)= 24 (rest stats at 25)? Then he'll lose his four months until remap is available, before he trains at the speed that was set.
If someone feel like doing the maths, that'll mean 6.8 attribute short (5.8 if I train something else) until neural remap is available?
The two only reasonable solution to this, as far as I can see, would either be to give everyone a free remap (or reset their timer). Some people will be lucky with their remap available, others (and I'm sure alot of us will be at March, given the Apocrypha release) will be losing SP for another four months. That doesn't sound very balanced and thought through to me. The other option would be to let us all distribute these new attributes (like a remap) ourselves.
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I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Riyal
Chode Extravaganza
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:42:00 -
[1429]
Its good to see the learning skills finally going. Having 5/5 on everything but the charisma tree (5/4) I'm looking forward to the ~4.7 million points to spend on something useful/fun.
A mechanic that weeds players out by boring them is pretty bad, this is a game after all.
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Lliabron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:45:00 -
[1430]
Quote:
No, you quite missed the point there. I'm comparing your approach to skill training with someone else's approach to ship buying. You collect SP to "be competitive" and claim that you require learning skills (or, more accurately: higher learning skills than most) to be that. For that to be true, your collection must be about total SP, because if it's just skills in general, you can be competitive just fine without them.
Please stop putting your ideas (ideas there are arguments to counter) as my ideas. I sacrificed early development on more direct areas towards profit over extended timeframe. This should allow me over very long time to maintain good skills compared to these that did not made the effort and sacrifice (they had the option too but concentrated on more "direct" skills). I payed for skill books toward that goals. These skillbooks (injected) will be worthless and will not be compensated.
Quote:
In other words, just like that guy collecting black ships, you have created a meta-game and a meta-game-competition for yourself, and now you're angry because CCP has upset the rules of this game.
No you are changing meaning of things.
Quote:
No, that's not what I'm saying, because you're missing part of the reimbursement.
I did not missed it. There is no re-imbursement towards injected skills. Extreme example, if somebody made the effort and bought the books last week and injected them with intention to start up-skilling them in week or two, he will have net loss of 50 Mils for advanced skillbooks with no compensation whatsoever. While I'm not that extreme case and I actually get somewhat more skillpoints over time, compensation should be made because it's very clear there will be loss, it's very well countable how much has who lost and because there is significant part of game being reworked (whole skill class dropped).
Quote:
Yes it should, otherwise the economy goes to hell in a handbasket in roughly zero seconds flat.
No it should not, because nobody will want to play game that is randomly removing his assets. To fight the inflation, there are battles, there are skillbooks, there are blueprints and there is PLEX. These are appropriate ways of fighting inflation that are part of system. Making relatively significant part of player assets worthless is bad thing and should be compensated.
Quote:
The EVE economy is totally reliant on the faucets and sinks that add and remove ISK from the game. But sure, they should not be sunk without trace, nor are they: the value was transferred to the books. The books were then injected and the value transferred to your SP and AP. That SP and AP is being reimbursed, so there is no need to reimburse the ISK.
SP are being re-imbursed.
AP are not being re-imbursed. I will get them regardless of my learning skills. So will everyone else. So I have nothing for those 50 mils on advanced learning skillbooks and some more for basic ones, except for some skillpoint bonus to the point. For some that bonus is zero.
Quote:
At no point along that chain has value been lost. Some will gain more than they had before, but that doesn't mean that you have been robbed of your value.
Value is lost for the skillbooks. That's a fact no matter how you paint it.
Quote:
-SP reimbursement is nice thing, fair, but has nothing to do with skills injecting.
Incorrect. It is a direct result of the skills being injected.
Direct result would mean you get as much as you had. This is not the case.
It's being done because:
a) Advanced skill training times would become excessive if skills would be dropped without replacement
b) This would distract the players from playing eve. Anything would take too long time to train so some would lose interest meanwhile.
It's in no way compensation for injected skillbooks wasted.
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Sebastian GZ
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Posted - 2010.11.26 22:55:00 -
[1431]
The only problem with this is that its designed to coddle the whiney noobs. For those of us who sucked it up we now get screwed. Yes I realize I get my 5.376 million sp (yeah thats right I had all 11 skills at L5) but my SP per hour will go down. (and yes I realize they are giving me and every other player 12 attribute points back but that lowers my SP per hour. So it adds one extra day of training per month. If they are going to screw with the system it shouldnt penalize those of us who made the investment. THey need to raise it by 13 each so as not to penalize those of us who did things right
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Rupicolous
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2010.11.26 23:03:00 -
[1432]
You are taking out learning skills why ?
Because newer players think it is a waste of time ?
The benefits are usually worth the efforts invested, espcially for learning skills which continue to give back throughout a players career.
You newer players simply need to dig in a bit and realize that if there is one aspect that sets EVE apart from other MMO's it's the simple fact that you're going to have to wait for the good things in life.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.26 23:09:00 -
[1433]
Edited by: Tippia on 26/11/2010 23:15:46
Originally by: Lliabron
Please stop putting your ideas (ideas there are arguments to counter) as my ideas.
You were the one who said you trained the learning skills to get a "competitive advantage" in terms of skills. I'm simply explaining to you what this advantage consists of: total SP ù a completely worthless stat.
Quote:
I did not missed it. There is no re-imbursement towards injected skills. Extreme example, if somebody made the effort and bought the books last week and injected them with intention to start up-skilling them in week or two, he will have net loss of 50 Mils for advanced skillbooks with no compensation whatsoever.
He gets fully compensated. Or, rather, there is nothing to compensate: he got those skill books to improve his training speed. His training speed now improves (and does so much sooner than he actually bargained for). He comes out ahead.
To put it bluntly: your complaint is not about you not being compensated ù it's about how you feel it's unfair that others are getting the same pay-out without the same investment. That is something completely different to not being compensated at all. You are being compensated, and you are getting what you paid for. Others are just getting more, and that's what bothers you (because of the aforementioned meta-gaming competition).
Quote:
No it should not, because nobody will want to play game that is randomly removing his assets.
Oh dearà go look at some of the economy presentations from the last couple of fanfests, and learn how a game economy works. Faucets and sinks are crucial to making that economy work ù it will cease to function without them. And people will play a game that removes assetsà after all, we are all playing EVE, and it happens constantly here.
And again: no assets were removed here without being replaced by the exact same thing.
Quote:
SP are being re-imbursed.
AP are not being re-imbursed. I will get them regardless of my learning skills. So will everyone else.
Again, just because others got a better deal does not mean that you didn't get what you paid for: higher attributes.
Quote:
Value is lost for the skillbooks.
Some tiny value is lost if you had all-V:s. In all other cases, value is actually added. And none of this value is in terms of ISK, because that conversion happened ages ago and is no longer relevant.
Quote:
Direct result would mean you get as much as you had. This is not the case.
Ehm Yes it is. You get exactly as much SP back as you had. Maybe that's what confusing you: you missed the part where you get 100% of your SP back.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Dmoney3788
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.26 23:12:00 -
[1434]
Originally by: Sebastian GZ
The only problem with this is that its designed to coddle the whiney noobs. For those of us who sucked it up we now get screwed. Yes I realize I get my 5.376 million sp (yeah thats right I had all 11 skills at L5) but my SP per hour will go down. (and yes I realize they are giving me and every other player 12 attribute points back but that lowers my SP per hour. So it adds one extra day of training per month. If they are going to screw with the system it shouldnt penalize those of us who made the investment. THey need to raise it by 13 each so as not to penalize those of us who did things right
I see, you have a sense of entitlement, like CCP "owes you" because you trained a certain skillset. Guess what, CCP doesn't owe you anything. Noone got reimbursed after the speed nerf, myrm nerf, NOS nerf, etc. Suck it up or GTFO.
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Berveig
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Posted - 2010.11.26 23:21:00 -
[1435]
..
I'm not sure whether I like it or not. I'm a newb, and I quite liked learning skills, if only because I knew what I should train while I was figuring out what skills I needed to do what I wanted to do... and, for that matter, figuring out what it was I wanted to do...
For the most part, I'm shocked ... those SPs will make a great birthday present ...
Also, I agree with Tippia. Those whose complaints are based on loss of ISK, don't understand the EVE economy, and those who think they're losing something ... obviously haven't lost enough in real life to understand the relative value. It's not worth your voracity. Either you like it or you don't, don't make excuses.
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Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
True Associates
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Posted - 2010.11.26 23:36:00 -
[1436]
Are attribute implants going away too? I sure hope so.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2010.11.26 23:36:00 -
[1437]
Most of these arguments are manifestly silly. This is coming from a 2005 player
-No, this is not 'dumbing down' the game. Everyone pretty much went 5/4 as a matter of course. Or maybe 5/5. Precious little difference either way. Some of my chars are 5/5, some 5/4. Are you trying to tell me that's a mark of some great and skillful decision making?
-Complaining about the 'lost' ISK is silly. You have benefitting from these training skills as long as you've had them. Moreover, when something gets nerfed, people typically do not get re-imbursed for the in game money they spent on it, in any MMO.
-Complaining that CCP hasn't correctly reimbursed you to the exact 1/100th of a skill point is silly also. CCP is giving you all the skill points you put into learning. People asking them to go back and figure out how many more 'extra' skill points they would have had under different (imaginary) circumstances to be 'inline' with what noobs today are looking at are delusional. That's not the way it works. Crying that vets have it unfair to new players is laughable, and what you are asking is likely impossible anyway.
From what I can see, this is all good. You get lots of free skill points and/or free attribute boosts.
Merry Christmas.
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Rhaegar Thrax
Gallente
Militaris Industries
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.11.26 23:51:00 -
[1438]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Don't you have a wardec to go petition or something?
Real classy
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El Mauru
Amarr
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.11.27 00:00:00 -
[1439]
awesome change - this coming from a vet |
Takseen
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Posted - 2010.11.27 00:06:00 -
[1440]
People are getting really confused about this 20/20/20/20/19 thing, and thinking CCP are forcibly remapping everyone's stats, perhaps that section of the blog needs to be rewritten?
And good lord at the amount of whining. I'm really disappointed by some of the reactions here, but oh well. You can never please everyone. |
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