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[Winter] More Combat Frigates!

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Sog Ardun Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.11.16 03:44:00 - [511] - Quote Actually, I was talking about the 3 drones used by the Comet. People have said (with some good reasons) that drone damage is not really reliable and that is why they would rather have a more balanced damage output (so like the Comet or the Ishkur but I did not want to bring that one just yet ^^). The new tristan is neither of them and I guess it is not supposed to do the same things. It is clearly a droneboat IMO (others are brawlers with drones) which has its upside (like the pure DPS potential) and downside (well drones are drones ...). That is why I'm excited to fly this new frigate even if I'm sure it will only be effective in niche roles. That said, I'm still not convinced with the turret tracking bonus and the fitting could be made a bit easier. I just think the Gallente has enough frigate brawlers (with or without drones) and I'm against adding a bonus that would make it one.
Zyella Stormborn Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis 203	Posted - 2012.11.16 04:35:00 - [512] - Quote I know how you feel Sog. With Amarr soon to have yet 2 more drone boats (dessie and Prophecy), and drones in the state that they currently are, its a risky proposition. They have plans to overhaul drones AI, and UI, ... but they have not given a date, and I am guessing it is at least a year down the road. All that being said, I have always been a pet *****, and I will definitely have a few of these in my hangar.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 203	Posted - 2012.11.16 11:15:00 - [513] - Quote Sog Ardun wrote: Actually, I was talking about the 3 drones used by the Comet. People have said (with some good reasons) that drone damage is not really reliable and that is why they would rather have a more balanced damage output (so like the Comet or the Ishkur but I did not want to bring that one just yet ^^). The new tristan is neither of them and I guess it is not supposed to do the same things. It is clearly a droneboat IMO (others are brawlers with drones) which has its upside (like the pure DPS potential) and downside (well drones are drones ...). That is why I'm excited to fly this new frigate even if I'm sure it will only be effective in niche roles. That said, I'm still not convinced with the turret tracking bonus and the fitting could be made a bit easier. I just think the Gallente has enough frigate brawlers (with or without drones) and I'm against adding a bonus that would make it one. Can't it be a droneboat AND not have a bad tank?
Lavitakus Bromier The Scope Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.11.16 18:12:00 - [514] - Quote +1 drones lack alpha. sad really poor little guys do all they can.but it's never.enough
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 3	Posted - 2012.11.23 09:55:00 - [515] - Quote Anyone else of the opinion that the Rifter should be a arty platform, since the Breacher has taken the brawler role, and that the Slasher is just a better version of what the Rifter was. I just want the Rifter to have a niche advantage again, even if a niche disadvantage is part of the deal
Deerin Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 33	Posted - 2012.11.23 10:41:00 - [516] - Quote Rick Rymes wrote: Anyone else of the opinion that the Rifter should be a arty platform, since the Breacher has taken the brawler role, and that the Slasher is just a better version of what the Rifter was. I just want the Rifter to have a niche advantage again, even if a niche disadvantage is part of the deal I like this idea...changing tracking bonus to optimal bonus would work nicely.
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 4	Posted - 2012.11.23 11:28:00 - [517] - Quote Deerin wrote: I like this idea...changing tracking bonus to optimal(or even better....falloff) bonus would work nicely. Would have to be falloff, maybe even a more pg and a 4th turret bit lets not trip our selves. im glad im understood
Sog Ardun Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.11.23 13:59:00 - [518] - Quote To be honest, tracking is more of an arty bonus than AC. Falloff is definatly more of an upgrade to AC than arty. Optimal is the only clear way to make it a better arty without making it possibly too good as a brawler. That said, I don't consider the Breacher to have taken the brawler role. IMO it can do both with 3 low slot and a bonus to damage. Sure the 35 km optimal range means you can't snipe with missiles but you can still kite pretty well.
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 5	Posted - 2012.11.23 14:20:00 - [519] - Quote Sog Ardun wrote: To be honest, tracking is more of an arty bonus than AC. Falloff is definatly more of an upgrade to AC than arty. Optimal is the only clear way to make it a better arty without making it possibly too good as a brawler. That said, I don't consider the Breacher to have taken the brawler role. IMO it can do both with 3 low slot and a bonus to damage. Sure the 35 km optimal range means you can't snipe with missiles but you can still kite pretty well. It can brawl with rockets and two warrior 2's, gets about 110 dps and can tank like a beast with dual MASB, and its fast. My thinking with the Rifter is to model it on the Stabber, and since its tank is weak compared to the majority of its fellow combat frigs, a falloff bonus and an extra turret could tip the odds back a bit, hell i would accept a nurf to EHP for a bit of variety. Also it should be able to use AC and Arty, just like the Merlin can go blaster or rail. The best thing is it can go arty atm, its just tight on fittings and low dps, so if they shifted the balance to long range and away from brawling maybe it will get a more specific following, and the Incursus pilots can keep the close range domination going P.S so glad no one posted the "OMG RIFETR NO GOOD SO WINMITAR WHINE RAGE!!!!!!!" that crops up now and then.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 220	Posted - 2012.11.23 19:03:00 - [520] - Quote It is true that the rifter needs some love. Its a free kill for any frig out there. The slasher is better at scram kiting/sig tanking. The breacher will be a ten times better brawler than the rifter is. Yea i can see the rifter as an arty platform being pretty cool, i like arties.

Vayn Baxtor Community for Justice Paradox Trust 1	Posted - 2012.11.24 05:09:00 - [521] - Quote A seperate idea I had was to put the Rifter and other distinct frigs of its bracket to a seperate "Corvette" bracket. I know it is annoying to be coming with new names but since this tiericide is putting things upside-down, I do think we should broaden the horizon. Disregarding the actual "size/ship" term, I think it would be easier to give the Rifter as well as others seperate bonuses as well as not having the apparent need to be compared with the new kings like Slasher etc. Let's face it, Slasher and similar frigates are here to stay as true tacklers. Whatever may be, Rifter is now a shadow as the other frigates can literally do the job better. In this case, maybe we should consider Rifter follow a slightly heavier combat role; as suggested just above with arties. I hate to come with this ridiculous one, but maybe we could have some sort of flexibility... You know, Rifter and others of its sort being a "T1.25"... 'ish? To be between that of an ordinary T1.0 and the more effective (T1.5) faction frig; but Rifter etc not being faction frigs and just a tad stronger than ordinary T1s such as slasher. I know the line is thin but that's what I think has to happen. It would give some leeway for the Rifter and similar ones to have their advantages without having too much worry. The easiest (but likely the most pain-in-the-veldspar) suggestion would be giving an AB bonus to Rifter specifically, but that is where the cascade of headaches would start. Then again, it would give it that interesting aspect of AB-speed tanking. It would still die, but it would have a special feature unlike Slasher/Breacher - So in short, trade the Tracking Bonus for a decent Afterburner Speed bonus. I would add a lot more bonuses and penalties, but that would require a tiericide within a tiericide xD!
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7	Posted - 2012.11.24 06:51:00 - [522] - Quote Vayn Baxtor wrote: A seperate idea I had was to put the Rifter and other distinct frigs of its bracket to a seperate "Corvette" bracket. I know it is annoying to be coming with new names but since this tiericide is putting things upside-down, I do think we should broaden the horizon. Disregarding the actual "size/ship" term, I think it would be easier to give the Rifter as well as others seperate bonuses as well as not having the apparent need to be compared with the new kings like Slasher etc. Let's face it, Slasher and similar frigates are here to stay as true tacklers. Whatever may be, Rifter is now a shadow as the other frigates can literally do the job better. In this case, maybe we should consider Rifter follow a slightly heavier combat role; as suggested just above with arties. I hate to come with this ridiculous one, but maybe we could have some sort of flexibility... You know, Rifter and others of its sort being a "T1.25"... 'ish? To be between that of an ordinary T1.0 and the more effective (T1.5) faction frig; but Rifter etc not being faction frigs and just a tad stronger than ordinary T1s such as slasher. I know the line is thin but that's what I think has to happen. It would give some leeway for the Rifter and similar ones to have their advantages without having too much worry. The easiest (but likely the most pain-in-the-veldspar) suggestion would be giving an AB bonus to Rifter specifically, but that is where the cascade of headaches would start. Then again, it would give it that interesting aspect of AB-speed tanking. It would still die, but it would have a special feature unlike Slasher/Breacher - So in short, trade the Tracking Bonus for a decent Afterburner Speed bonus. I would add a lot more bonuses and penalties, but that would require a tiericide within a tiericide xD!
Vayn Baxtor Community for Justice Paradox Trust 1	Posted - 2012.11.24 07:47:00 - [523] - Quote I know about the sizes. Destroyers are not essentially the right size either, but this is a scifi game, so one can play around with terms and stuff freely :). Might as well could push the Slasher and other attack frigates to corvette since those are actually "small and witty" ships - But that doesn't help much either. The idea was just to get the Rifter and such out of the bracket so they can be their own thing.
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7	Posted - 2012.11.24 07:47:00 - [524] - Quote After playing around in Eve Hanger and making some fits, plus by talking to others and you people here on the forums im content that the Rifter needs an extra turret and extra PG/CPU to be an competitive ranged combat ship. The Rifter should be able to hit 15k with AC's before tracking mods are used, and Arty's should be able to hit 20k+before tracking mods are used. This would lead me to recommend a Falloff bonus instead of a Tracking, i would also replace the Damage bonus for a ROF bonus so that Alpha is not to excessive. Brawling in this Rifter should be possible and viable but no more than acceptable at best, with the more dedicated brawlers still excelling over it at close range combat. this can be done by either leaving the rest of the Rifters stats the same and relying on its sub par tank to melt whenever brawling is chosen, or to go even further and lower its EHP to make it an all gank no tank ship. This all just in the hope that a dev will see this and either say A) your right and we should change this Or B) man up and enjoy the new Breacher
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7	Posted - 2012.11.24 07:49:00 - [525] - Quote In my mind it goes like this overall. The Attack frigs (Condor, Slasher, Atron, Executioner) would more likely prey on Close Combat frigs (Incursus, Merlin, Breacher, Punisher) since they often lack webs and normally fit close range guns. The Close Combat Frigs (Incursus, Merlin, Breacher, Punisher) would more likely prey on Ranged Combat frigs (Tormentor, Kestrel, Tristan, Rifter) due to there more equal speed, mediocre tank and due to being able to themselves tank there damage. The Ranged Combat frigs (Tormentor, Kestrel, Tristan, Rifter) would more likely prey on Attack frigs (Condor, Slasher, Atron, Executioner) because of there weak tanks, weakish damage and able to themselves project their damage well on fast moving targets. That my theory of how it should be anyway, each ship should have a preferred prey and a predator to be weary of.
Deerin Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 33	Posted - 2012.11.24 10:36:00 - [526] - Quote Rick Rymes wrote: The Rifter should be able to hit 15k with AC's before tracking mods are used, and Arty's should be able to hit 20k+before tracking mods are used. Define hitting. Right now rifters can hit to 15k without tracking mods....but you could also call that a gentle touch instead of hitting. If you mean dealing proper damage to 15k with AC's before any tracking mods, that would be quite overpowered.
Sheynan Lighting the blight 139	Posted - 2012.11.24 12:45:00 - [527] - Quote A role as dedicated "gunboat" in comparison to Breacher/Slasher sounds neat. For that I'd change up to 3 things: 1)swap tracking bonus to 10%/lvl falloff bonus 2) slightly more pg for the occasional arty fit 3) change projectile damage bonus to either 7,5%/lvl OR give a 7,5%/lvl bonus to missile damage The first is kind of mandatory, the Slasher is the new highspeed-brawler with the tracking bonus, there's no need for the Rifter to have one. The second and third would be nice to have if the first change is not enough. P.S: The falloff bonus would translate into barrage ranges of 1,5+12km for 200mms and 1,7+18km for 200mms with one TE 280mms with closerange ammo would go to 7,5+16,5 and 8,6+21 with TE
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 8	Posted - 2012.11.24 13:06:00 - [528] - Quote Deerin wrote: Define hitting. Right now rifters can hit to 15k without tracking mods....but you could also call that a gentle touch instead of hitting. If you mean dealing proper damage to 15k with AC's before any tracking mods, that would be quite overpowered. 20k would be deep falloff with AC's, getting anymore range should require tracking mods and/or rigs, which would sacrifice speed/tank. i would like to point out that the new Kestrel. [Kestrel] [High Slots] Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket [Med Slots] 1MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron [Low Slots] Ballistic Control System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II [Rigs] Small Bay Loading Accelerator I Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I This fit can get about 120 dps (on paper) out to 20k with navy rockets and around 100 dps (on paper) out to 30k with javlin. If i was to base what sort of combat the new Rifter would fill i would base it on this, both would have four guns, a range bonus and a damage bonus. i also knocked up a kiting Tormentor as an example [Tormentor] [High Slots] Small Focused Pulse Laser II - Scorch S Small Focused Pulse Laser II - Scorch S Small Focused Pulse Laser II - Scorch S [Med Slots] 1MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Tracking Computer II - Optimal Range Script [Low Slots] Heat Sink II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Co-Processor II [Rigs] Small Energy Metastasis Adjuster I Small Energy Locus Coordinator I Small Energy Locus Coordinator I [Drones] Warrior II x 2 Similar idea, but with lasers and there sexy optimal. 130 dps (on paper) with an 17k optimal, 24 dps comes from the 2 drones This is what i think the Rifter should be tailored to, if anyone with and good understanding of falloff could pipe up and share the knowledge
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 8	Posted - 2012.11.24 13:09:00 - [529] - Quote Sheynan wrote: P.S: The falloff bonus would translate into barrage ranges of 1,5+12km for 200mms and 1,7+18km for 200mms with one TE 280mms with closerange ammo would go to 7,5+16,5 and 8,6+21 with TE Thank you Any idea what damage it would be doing at say, 15k with no gyro just its 5% damage per level?
Bouh Revetoile Barricade. 178	Posted - 2012.11.24 13:14:00 - [530] - Quote Rick Rymes wrote: Deerin wrote: Define hitting. Right now rifters can hit to 15k without tracking mods....but you could also call that a gentle touch instead of hitting. If you mean dealing proper damage to 15k with AC's before any tracking mods, that would be quite overpowered. 20k would be deep falloff with AC's, getting anymore range should require tracking mods and/or rigs, which would sacrifice speed/tank. i would like to point out that the new Kestrel. [Kestrel] [High Slots] Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket [Med Slots] 1MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron [Low Slots] Ballistic Control System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II [Rigs] Small Bay Loading Accelerator I Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I This fit can get about 120 dps (on paper) out to 20k with navy rockets and around 100 dps (on paper) out to 30k with javlin. If i was to base what sort of combat the new Rifter would fill i would base it on this, both would have four guns, a range bonus and a damage bonus. i also knocked up a kiting Tormentor as an example [Tormentor] [High Slots] Small Focused Pulse Laser II - Scorch S Small Focused Pulse Laser II - Scorch S Small Focused Pulse Laser II - Scorch S [Med Slots] 1MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Tracking Computer II - Optimal Range Script [Low Slots] Heat Sink II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Co-Processor II [Rigs] Small Energy Metastasis Adjuster I Small Energy Locus Coordinator I Small Energy Locus Coordinator I [Drones] Warrior II x 2 Similar idea, but with lasers and there sexy optimal. 130 dps (on paper) with an 17k optimal, 24 dps comes from the 2 drones This is what i think the Rifter should be tailored to, if anyone with and good understanding of falloff could pipe up and share the knowledge And what do you do with inherent AC qualities like no cap use, damage selection, good tracking and hilarious easyness of fitting ?

Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 8	Posted - 2012.11.24 13:21:00 - [531] - Quote Bouh Revetoile wrote: Rick Rymes wrote: Deerin wrote: Define hitting. Right now rifters can hit to 15k without tracking mods....but you could also call that a gentle touch instead of hitting. If you mean dealing proper damage to 15k with AC's before any tracking mods, that would be quite overpowered. 20k would be deep falloff with AC's, getting anymore range should require tracking mods and/or rigs, which would sacrifice speed/tank. i would like to point out that the new Kestrel. [Kestrel] [High Slots] Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket Rocket Launcher II - Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket [Med Slots] 1MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron [Low Slots] Ballistic Control System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II [Rigs] Small Bay Loading Accelerator I Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I This fit can get about 120 dps (on paper) out to 20k with navy rockets and around 100 dps (on paper) out to 30k with javlin. If i was to base what sort of combat the new Rifter would fill i would base it on this, both would have four guns, a range bonus and a damage bonus. i also knocked up a kiting Tormentor as an example [Tormentor] [High Slots] Small Focused Pulse Laser II - Scorch S Small Focused Pulse Laser II - Scorch S Small Focused Pulse Laser II - Scorch S [Med Slots] 1MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Tracking Computer II - Optimal Range Script [Low Slots] Heat Sink II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Co-Processor II [Rigs] Small Energy Metastasis Adjuster I Small Energy Locus Coordinator I Small Energy Locus Coordinator I [Drones] Warrior II x 2 Similar idea, but with lasers and there sexy optimal. 130 dps (on paper) with an 17k optimal, 24 dps comes from the 2 drones This is what i think the Rifter should be tailored to, if anyone with and good understanding of falloff could pipe up and share the knowledge And what do you do with inherent AC qualities like no cap use, damage selection, good tracking and hilarious easyness of fitting ? Rockets have no cap, and damage selection, there "tracking" is ok and i never have problems fitting them. Plus to get that sexy falloff range you need to use barrage which locks and AC's damage type, where as the rockets with long range ammo get greater range, tracking and damage selection. AC's will make up tho with ferocious dps at close range and the Rifter hull will be far faster. Im not sure how much damage rocket do in reality compared to on paper but then using javlin would remedy that.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 225	Posted - 2012.11.24 20:48:00 - [532] - Quote You don't rocket the Kestrel.. You just don't..
Sog Ardun Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.11.24 21:36:00 - [533] - Quote Giving the Rifter a fall-off bonus will firstly and mostly boost its damage output at the edge of scrambling range which is the way you are supposed to play the breacher. The AC already has far more falloff range than any other turret. It really does not need help on that end. If you want to make the Rifter a better arty platform which will not be played like a Breacher 90% of the time you have to give it an optimal range bonus (and I do like the idea about the rate of fire instead of damage to limit alpha damage). Secondly, both the Kestrel and the Breacher can fit rockets but also missiles. The Kestrel in particular will probably be more played as a missile vessel than a rocket one (because if it get caught in scrambler range it's dead anyway). The breacher only issue with a missile build is its target lock range but I'm pretty sure there will be some kiting fit out there which will not brawl. Thirdly, your predator/prey ideal vastly depends on the weapon type used by your attack/ranged combat frigs and usually is not as simple. You should not discount the fact that an attack frig will always have the choice of fleeing too. It's true though that all of these classes have some sort of advantages that they have to abuse to beat the others (tank, manoeuvrability or damage projection). Right now, the Rifter does not fit well there and will probably be outperform by a Breacher in about every role.
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 8	Posted - 2012.11.25 06:38:00 - [534] - Quote You are right that the Kestrel will more likely use light missiles, my aim was to show how effective close range weapons are/would be on these platforms, so as to justify the use of AC's as well as Arty's. There should not be such a limit that the Rifter has to be an arty boat, mealy tailored to it. Also the rocket Kestrel will still rock since all its damage is in disruptor range with fitting to spare. but that is what i mean by not cocooning a ship to one fit, the Incursus is a amazing brawler, but is also an excellent rail kiter, attack frigs can operate within scram range and out depending on the fit allowing lots of diversity in how a ship is played. My "Each ship has prey and predators" diagram is not perfect due to being so vague, and Attack frigate will still be able to run away, but the idea isn't to catch them permanently (That is what T2 Interceptors do) it is that in general the Ranged Combat frigates damage projection would make it harder to survive long for an Attack frigate and that they can not simply orbit outside of there guns, which they can with the Close Combat frigates. You summed up the three types of frigate quite well. Tank, Maneuverability or Damage projection. Maybe the way to look at the new Rifter concept is to see it as the son of the Stabber and the wolfs little bro. Im all up for the Breacher being the brawler, there are already 3 turret brawlers out there a missile platform will add a nice mixup.
FFKefka 0	Posted - 2012.11.25 14:02:00 - [535] - Quote Well, I've been struggling to figure out a fit that would make the Tristan work with its bonuses despite its fitting shortcomings and thought I would throw this out there to get an opinion on it. I used EFT but figured in the new CPU/PG of the ship. [High slots] 150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II Core Probe Launcher II [Mid slots] Limited 1mn Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I [Low slots] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II [Rigs] Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I [Drones] 5x Hobgoblin II 3x Warrior SW-300 (or light ECM's) 3446 m/s mwd and 477 m/s standard. Cap stable at 37% with the guns turned off and 2 minutes 37 seconds with guns turned on. All assuming old stats from EFT so it would be slightly faster and slightly more cap stable with the changes. My thought on the probe launcher is that I would be at range so a nos/neut wouldn't really be of use and since CCP is removing the launchers I can't fit something more useful unless you think an auto-targeter is more useful. A drone link augmentor might be fun to play with a certain setup if DLA's werne't so cpu intensive (one of the reasons I rule out the idea of sentry drones). My thought on the tracking disruptor is to attempt to keep my drones and myself (and perhaps my fleet) alive. I would have considered a drone navi computer to attempt to take advantage of the drone tracking (not sure how much that would help with the fling effect though) but it just wasn't able to fit and I felt a tracking disruptor would be more useful. Death is the true way of life. For if there is no death, there is no life. Remind your vegetarian friends that think eating meat is murder; eating plants kills them too. I'm not obsessed with death, it is obsessed with me.
FFKefka 0	Posted - 2012.11.25 14:22:00 - [536] - Quote I just don't know, hence why I thought I would throw that fit out here. I would entertain the idea of swapping the turrets for launcher slots as others have noted to take the ship more in line with the t2 bomber. Nobody ever said a drone boat couldn't use rockets/missiles. Heck... maybe even if it didn't get a bonus to the missiles it would be interesting, but right now the launcher slots are completely AWOL (not to mention only 9 slots compared to the other ship's 10 as others have pointed out many times) despite Rodean apparently favoring launchers, which would give viability to the story of having missile gallente ships. I do like my blasters and rails, but I liked the tristan with rocket launchers back when I flew frigs (before I found out the incursus was so much of a superior ship in many ways.) Is CCP putting bonuses on ships just for fluff text? (Talking about both bonuses) or is this really supposed to help? Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate balance, but it's so confusing... Maybe once the drones are tweaked in the future it will make more sense, though the sentry drone idea would be viable if the CPU weren't so low, then the drone tracking would be interesting. While I'm a slight fan of the new railguns, I don't feel that a tracking bonus for 2 guns (rails or blasters) is really useful either, but time will tell I suppose. Speaking of which... why is the CPU so low compared to the other races? Especially with how CPU intensive all the drone modules are. Wouldn't a ship manufacturer take that into account when building this type of ship? Please forgive me for ranting a little. I do appreciate having a drone based frigate since I like the little buggars so much, but often I feel like we get the short end of the stick all too often. Death is the true way of life. For if there is no death, there is no life. Remind your vegetarian friends that think eating meat is murder; eating plants kills them too. I'm not obsessed with death, it is obsessed with me.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 225	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:40:00 - [537] - Quote FFKefka wrote: Well, I've been struggling to figure out a fit that would make the Tristan work with its bonuses despite its fitting shortcomings and thought I would throw this out there to get an opinion on it. I used EFT but figured in the new CPU/PG of the ship. [High slots] 150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II Core Probe Launcher II [Mid slots] Limited 1mn Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I [Low slots] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II [Rigs] Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I [Drones] 5x Hobgoblin II 3x Warrior SW-300 (or light ECM's) Highlighted part is really bad.
Rick Rymes Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 8	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:59:00 - [538] - Quote FFKefka wrote: I just don't know, hence why I thought I would throw that fit out here. I would entertain the idea of swapping the turrets for launcher slots as others have noted to take the ship more in line with the t2 bomber. Nobody ever said a drone boat couldn't use rockets/missiles. Heck... maybe even if it didn't get a bonus to the missiles it would be interesting, but right now the launcher slots are completely AWOL (not to mention only 9 slots compared to the other ship's 10 as others have pointed out many times) despite Rodean apparently favoring launchers, which would give viability to the story of having missile gallente ships. I do like my blasters and rails, but I liked the tristan with rocket launchers back when I flew frigs (before I found out the incursus was so much of a superior ship in many ways.) Is CCP putting bonuses on ships just for fluff text? (Talking about both bonuses) or is this really supposed to help? Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate balance, but it's so confusing... Maybe once the drones are tweaked in the future it will make more sense, though the sentry drone idea would be viable if the CPU weren't so low, then the drone tracking would be interesting. While I'm a slight fan of the new railguns, I don't feel that a tracking bonus for 2 guns (rails or blasters) is really useful either, but time will tell I suppose. Speaking of which... why is the CPU so low compared to the other races? Especially with how CPU intensive all the drone modules and rigs are. Wouldn't a ship manufacturer take that into account when building this type of ship? Please forgive me for ranting a little. I do appreciate having a drone based frigate since I like the little buggars so much, but often I feel like we get the short end of the stick all too edit to often. Ranting is good, ranting gets your thoughts noticed. The loss of a slot is a severe hindrance to the Tristan, most drone boats lack a slot to make up for the extra drones, but in this case i think it is too much a handicap since every slot matters for a frigate given its size and weakness, a lot of people assume that adding a extra low will add to much armor tank, but i believe that an extra low means more use of a nanofibre mod. Also its fitting sucks for whatever reason and the hybrid tracking is completely pointless, other ships get two bonuses that benefit the ship immensely but a tracking bonus for two turrets is just not kosher. something like starting the hull with 25m3 of drone space and having a 5m3 per level bonus would mean having two full sets of dones at Galante frigate 5, a problem people raised at the start of this forum. I have left the Tristan alone sice i have little expirence with drones and it is not out yet. For future theory crafting use Eve Hanger sice it has a version that has the updated frigates and cruisers plus the new destroyers and mining frigate (Credit to KidDelicious for the site)
Joanna Ramirez Intaki Militia 92	Posted - 2012.11.25 20:31:00 - [539] - Quote Rick Rymes wrote: i would like to point out that the new Kestrel. You are seriously putting a target painter to help rockets hit better? Your right to comment on missile boats has been revoked....
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 228	Posted - 2012.11.25 22:52:00 - [540] - Quote Tristan would be good if it had 4 lows or a tanking bonus imo.



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