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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
The VC's
Spack Force 5
20
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Posted - 2012.08.16 17:03:00 -
[91] - Quote
* steals Laing's asb Executioner fit. |
Aurum Gallente
The Scope Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2012.08.16 17:13:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Aurum Gallente wrote:I'm happy to see tristan like this but 3 med+2 light drones or one sentry in frigate class? It can kill any T1 cruiser or tier-3 BC. If you want to see powerful drone platform just change turret bonus to something useful like drone HP or stasis webifier range or armor resistances. I prefer 0 turrents and long webifier It has 40m3 bay but only 25m3 bandwidth, so 5 light drones or one sentry. I know it. I am Gallente and I don't know what for this tristan needs guns. It needs drone optimal bonus if you against webifier optimal bonus. Change turret's bonus to 2.5% and add drone optimal range 5% per lvl. Light drones have problems with too small optimal range with very high speed so tracking bonus not very useful for light drones. |
PinkKnife
Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
192
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:15:00 -
[93] - Quote
I don't understand the hullabaloo over the Tristan. I flew it exclusively for near 4 months when I first started. It was a crap ship, the split bonuses meant I couldn't really do much dps. You either fit it for cruiser battling, or for drove fighting. Neither one was it particularly good at.
It had 1 drone. What is the point of that?
It is by far more focused and better as a ship than it was. What difference does it make if the Navitas is used as something else.
With the Incursus serving as the close range blaster ship, it makes sense that the other combat frigate would be the other Gallente play style of longer range and drones.
As for not having any entry missile ships. See Amarr, They don't get any missile ships until Assault Frigates, but no one bitched about that. Yes, training up a bomber from Cal/Min is less time, but so what. Training ANY Turret ship for Caldari means the same thing.
Also, you'll likely be getting a missile based destroyer platform, which makes a nice stepping stone as well so, don't count chickens before the've teircided themselves.
I agree on cap use argument.
I also agree on Minmatar having to train too many things, they should not be able to do everything. As it is, they get every single option with no downsides.
Bombers are fine as they are, leave them be. Every race has the same approximate bomber training, some just have it easier than others. Having the Tristan just means you have rockets/MLO trained to 3, not that you have all the support skills unless you fly the Tristan exclusively for 4 months straight, and even then I didn't have all the missile support skills. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
192
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:17:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote: What I am saying is that the Navitas looks like a space fish like the Vexor and Dominix. The Tristan does not.
The Navitas also looks a lot like the Exequror.......
FRIGATE LOGISTICS \o/
I thought that was the big reveal, then I read this, and I think you're dropping us hints :) |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1868
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:18:00 -
[95] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:
The ships are already borderline OP with a laser cap bonus. I think giving them other bonuses might just push them all the way over. But yeah - let's see what the devs say.
/shrug
-Liang
Lasers in general are the least used weapon in PvP nowadays as evidenced by these statistics: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20But I'm sure you'll be telling me that statistics don't mean anything while your opinion and anecdotes do.
I don't think those statistics really mean what you think they do. For starters, about half that list is meaningless because it simply represents what fleet doctrines are being used right now. I think that people are lemmings and game design shouldn't revolve around what any particular mouthpiece is telling people to fly.
Of the ships on that list which are potentially differentiable from fleet doctrines, I'd say that there's 6 Projectile ships, 2 Hybrid ships, and 2 Laser ships. Breaking those down a bit further, we see: - BS: Nobody flies them outside of fleets. Whatever. - BC: Hurricane, Tornado, Naga, Oracle (2 Proj, 1 Hybrid, 1 Laser) - Cruiser: Zealot, Cynabal (1 Laser, 1 Projectile) - Destroyer: Thrasher, Saber (2 Projectile, also this is meaningless as the destroyer rebalance has not yet arrived) - Frig: Rifter, Merlin (1 Projectile, 1 Hybrid)
What I'm really seeing is Minmatar dominance via the Hurricane and Saber. And that's your argument that lasers need a massive across the board buff?
-Liang
Ed: I would accept an argument that the Tornado, Naga, and Zealot are fleet doctrines. I don't really keep track close enough to know. It shouldn't materially affect the argument though. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Nagarythe Tinurandir
Catholic School for Boys A Point In Space
39
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Posted - 2012.08.16 17:25:00 -
[96] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote: the main idea behind the bombers was not making them torpedo spitting missile boats, but have a platform for deploying bombs, which do not have much in common with missiles. it would be rather cool if only the caldari bomber would use torps and the other bombers would use large lasers/projectiles/ blasters.. heavily modified to make them only viable when shooting larger targets. like a penalty on signature radius.
The funny thing about that is that the current bombers are modified in favor of having BETTER damage application (but not raw DPS) than battleships. And you're suggesting making the turret ones significantly worse? Heh. -Liang
as bombers are quite mobile thy can easily cut down transversal and with unmodified large turret they would roflstomp everything into oblivious. similar to talos and tornado. it was just a fast idea, not to be taken too seriously ^^ |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
362
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:29:00 -
[97] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
What I'm really seeing is Minmatar dominance via the Hurricane and Saber. And that's your argument that lasers need a massive across the board buff?
-Liang
I think we have very different ideas what massive means. Did you not read the link that I posted? Tell me:
A Tormentor with +7.5% tracking and +5% damage per level (and built-in -50% laser cap usage) would be massively more powerful than the same ship with -10% laser cap usage per level and +5% damage per level?
What about an Omen with +7.5% tracking and +5% rof (and built-in -50% laser cap usage)?
What about the drone legion subsystem? Would that be massively overpowered if the its only laser bonus, -10% cap usage per level was replaced with +5% damage per level?
What about the covert legion with the same problem?
What about the Retribution getting a 10% damage boost that replaces the +5% damage per level and -10% cap usage bonus? The ship currently has problems breaking 200 dps, can't fit a web and is the worst AF to engage bigger targets with.
What a about the Absolution? Would a tracking bonus make it overpowered? I very much doubt it. It only has 3 mids, it should have tracking bonus anyways.
What about the Abaddon? Would it be massively overpowered if its cap lasted a few minutes more?
etc... An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:36:00 -
[98] - Quote
Ok I gonna bring this up here, how many gallente pilots are tired of drone/hybrid combo ships. They are the only race that doesn't get seperate weapon platform ships. Every drone ship gets a hybrid bonus (myrmidon aside) it would be nice if the drone ships were drone ships and the hybrid ships were hybrid ships. Give the drone ships drone hp bonuses, tracking bonuses, optimum range bonuses, damage bonuses, mwd speed bonuses or logistic/ewar bonuses. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1869
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:38:00 -
[99] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote: I think we have very different ideas what massive means. Did you not read the link that I posted? Tell me:
A Tormentor with +7.5% tracking and +5% damage per level (and built-in -50% laser cap usage) would be massively more powerful than the same ship with -10% laser cap usage per level and +5% damage per level?
Heh, yeah it really would be. I think you should go read the old threads about the Crusader to see why this is true.
Quote: What about the Retribution getting a 10% damage boost that replaces the +5% damage per level and -10% cap usage bonus? The ship currently has problems breaking 200 dps, can't fit a web and is the worst AF to engage bigger targets with.
If you have problems with the Retribution, I literally have no idea what the hell is wrong with you.
Quote: What about the Abaddon? Would it be massively overpowered if its cap lasted a few minutes more?
I'm going to go with yes.
The rest of the stuff that you pointed out is pretty much you pointing at a ship that's horrifically broken for other reasons and attributing it to the cap use bonus.
-Liang
Ed: Really, saying that the Omen is broken because of the cap use bonus instead of it's utterly **** fittings is just mindblowing and destroys your entire argument. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Azual Skoll
The Tuskers
13
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Posted - 2012.08.16 17:42:00 -
[100] - Quote
Assuming for a moment frigate logistics is what we're considering, there are a couple of a pretty big problems to consider.
What exactly does a logistics frigate rep? If it's repping cruisers or larger then there's no real advantage over a logistics cruiser. So I assume they're for repping other frigates.
Even if you take locking out of the equation (for example by assuming these logistics frigs could all bit insta-lock), there's usually a delay between a ship taking damage and the logistics ships stemming the bleeding. Excluding 1v1 encounters though, a frigate taking fire in PVP is usually in one of two situations: it's either evading all or most of the incoming damage, or it's dying - usually very quickly. The window available for a logistics ship to lock that frigate and begin repairing it is very slim indeed, to the point where most ships will be dead before reps land in any real fight (especially with armour reps, which land at the end of their cycle).
In addition to that, the low EHP and resists of your typical t1 frigate (potentially excluding merlins and punishers) means that reps simply aren't that effective on them. High resists are all but essential for remote repair to work, and it's really quite hard to fit a frigate in that way. Additionally, fights involving larger ships are likely to see frigates volleyed straight through their primary shield/armour buffer, meaning no amount of reps can actually keep them afloat. Assault frigs are tough enough for it to work, but inventing a new ship class purely to repair assault frigs seems a little unnecessary.
A possibly alternative which would come in really handy, would be a t1 boosting frigate able to fit a single gang link, in a similar vein to the t1 battlecruisers. Right now using gang links is something that a frigate-only fleet simply can't do, unless it's willing to cut it's mobility significantly (since cruisers warp at half the speed of frigates, or slower if compared to t2 frigates) - in other words, sacrificing the main reason to use a frig fleet in the first place. Being able to receive the benefits of a gang link would allow frigate fleets to become a lot more flexible, and level the playing field between a frigate fleet and a gang of larger ships. Obviously, this would work even better if combined with a change to make warfare links on-grid only, but that's a separate conversation entirely!
Other than that, I love what you're doing with balancing so far (even if it does mean I have to rewrite half of my blog!). I like that you've moved away from giving every race a missile frig and a drone frig, that felt a little too homogeneous and I think this way you're maintaining more racial flavour while still giving new players some genuine choice. Keep it up! Eve Blogger at www.evealtruist.com Formerly Director of Agony Unleashed's PVP-University |
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Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
364
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote: I think we have very different ideas what massive means. Did you not read the link that I posted? Tell me:
A Tormentor with +7.5% tracking and +5% damage per level (and built-in -50% laser cap usage) would be massively more powerful than the same ship with -10% laser cap usage per level and +5% damage per level?
Heh, yeah it really would be. I think you should go read the old threads about the Crusader to see why this is true.
You gotta be kidding me. You're just bullshitting me now.
I think I'm done discussing things with you. An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |
Recoil IV
Knights of the Posing Meat
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:50:00 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:This Tristan look nice ; though I thought the navitas should be a drone boat ; which role will the navitas have ? Drone brawler ?
Is the bonus of the Kestrel for all missiles ? Or only for kinetic ones ? All missiles. It's a break from the usual Caldari bonuses but in this case we felt it was appropriate.
there is a god |
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:19:00 -
[103] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:
The ships are already borderline OP with a laser cap bonus. I think giving them other bonuses might just push them all the way over. But yeah - let's see what the devs say.
/shrug
-Liang
Lasers in general are the least used weapon in PvP nowadays as evidenced by these statistics: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20But I'm sure you'll be telling me that statistics don't mean anything while your opinion and anecdotes do. I don't think those statistics really mean what you think they do. For starters, about half that list is meaningless because it simply represents what fleet doctrines are being used right now. I think that people are lemmings and game design shouldn't revolve around what any particular mouthpiece is telling people to fly. Of the ships on that list which are potentially differentiable from fleet doctrines, I'd say that there's 6 Projectile ships, 2 Hybrid ships, and 2 Laser ships. Breaking those down a bit further, we see: - BS: Nobody flies them outside of fleets. Whatever. - BC: Hurricane, Tornado, Naga, Oracle (2 Proj, 1 Hybrid, 1 Laser) - Cruiser: Zealot, Cynabal (1 Laser, 1 Projectile) - Destroyer: Thrasher, Saber (2 Projectile, also this is meaningless as the destroyer rebalance has not yet arrived) - Frig: Rifter, Merlin (1 Projectile, 1 Hybrid) What I'm really seeing is Minmatar dominance via the Hurricane and Saber. And that's your argument that lasers need a massive across the board buff? -Liang Ed: I would accept an argument that the Tornado, Naga, and Zealot are fleet doctrines. I don't really keep track close enough to know. It shouldn't materially affect the argument though.
Wouldn't it be likely that lasers aren't used in a lot of fleet doctrines now because they are not up to snuff? and need a boost? I think they would be used a lot more in fleets if the ships they are fitted on could be used in fleets and be cap stable. I'm thinking the people who come up with the doctrines that effect those statistics use projectiles, missiles mostly cause of the long term cap stability of those ships in fleet, without having to use convoluted cap chains.
Even if all other laser stats are on par with other turrets at the moment, the fact that you will run out of cap just on gun use and propulsion mod use makes them very poor choices for long fights.
I find it kind of funny when they talk about Amarr needing smaller cargo holds because their ammo is so small, when the real Amarr ammo on a lot of my fits is cap boosters. And then my ships are only viable for 5 mins or so. I think this is worse the bigger the ship gets, but I don't think it invalidates the point that lasers as a whole need a change when they need a 50% bonus on a hull to stay somewhat competitive.
If Amarr would become OP with a sweeping change of say a 50% reduction on all lasers. Then I would be willing to see some small nerfs to the stats of the guns, optimal, tracking, that could be then be affected by real second bonuses on ships. So that balance is maintained. But I would say that should be a 2 or 3 step process. First change the bonus and the cap use. If OP then nerf the stats on the guns. They are still going to be the biggest cap using weapons in game and cap is life. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1873
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:23:00 -
[104] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote: Wouldn't it be likely that lasers aren't used in a lot of fleet doctrines now because they are not up to snuff? and need a boost? I think they would be used a lot more in fleets if the ships they are fitted on could be used in fleets and be cap stable. I'm thinking the people who come up with the doctrines that effect those statistics use projectiles, missiles mostly cause of the long term cap stability of those ships in fleet, without having to use convoluted cap chains.
Even if all other laser stats are on par with other turrets at the moment, the fact that you will run out of cap just on gun use and propulsion mod use makes them very poor choices for long fights.
I find it kind of funny when they talk about Amarr needing smaller cargo holds because their ammo is so small, when the real Amarr ammo on a lot of my fits is cap boosters. And then my ships are only viable for 5 mins or so. I think this is worse the bigger the ship gets, but I don't think it invalidates the point that lasers as a whole need a change when they need a 50% bonus on a hull to stay somewhat competitive.
If Amarr would become OP with a sweeping change of say a 50% reduction on all lasers. Then I would be willing to see some small nerfs to the stats of the guns, optimal, tracking, that could be then be affected by real second bonuses on ships. So that balance is maintained. But I would say that should be a 2 or 3 step process. First change the bonus and the cap use. If OP then nerf the stats on the guns. They are still going to be the biggest cap using weapons in game and cap is life.
I dunno, the CSM minutes says that "Drake fleet should not be a viable doctrine". So, no I'd say it's more a problem with heavy missiles being problematic than with lasers being bad. Either way, I feel like we're shitting up a perfectly viable thread about combat frigates with abstract discussion about whether or not a cap use bonus is a good bonus.
Let's take this elsewhere.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
27
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Posted - 2012.08.16 18:27:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The Navitas also looks a lot like the Exequror.......
http://nooooooooooooooo.com/ |
Recoil IV
Knights of the Posing Meat
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:31:00 -
[106] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:
The ships are already borderline OP with a laser cap bonus. I think giving them other bonuses might just push them all the way over. But yeah - let's see what the devs say.
/shrug
-Liang
Lasers in general are the least used weapon in PvP nowadays as evidenced by these statistics: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20But I'm sure you'll be telling me that statistics don't mean anything while your opinion and anecdotes do. I don't think those statistics really mean what you think they do. For starters, about half that list is meaningless because it simply represents what fleet doctrines are being used right now. I think that people are lemmings and game design shouldn't revolve around what any particular mouthpiece is telling people to fly. Of the ships on that list which are potentially differentiable from fleet doctrines, I'd say that there's 6 Projectile ships, 2 Hybrid ships, and 2 Laser ships. Breaking those down a bit further, we see: - BS: Nobody flies them outside of fleets. Whatever. - BC: Hurricane, Tornado, Naga, Oracle (2 Proj, 1 Hybrid, 1 Laser) - Cruiser: Zealot, Cynabal (1 Laser, 1 Projectile) - Destroyer: Thrasher, Saber (2 Projectile, also this is meaningless as the destroyer rebalance has not yet arrived) - Frig: Rifter, Merlin (1 Projectile, 1 Hybrid) What I'm really seeing is Minmatar dominance via the Hurricane and Saber. And that's your argument that lasers need a massive across the board buff? -Liang Ed: I would accept an argument that the Tornado, Naga, and Zealot are fleet doctrines. I don't really keep track close enough to know. It shouldn't materially affect the argument though. Wouldn't it be likely that lasers aren't used in a lot of fleet doctrines now because they are not up to snuff? and need a boost? I think they would be used a lot more in fleets if the ships they are fitted on could be used in fleets and be cap stable. I'm thinking the people who come up with the doctrines that effect those statistics use projectiles, missiles mostly cause of the long term cap stability of those ships in fleet, without having to use convoluted cap chains. Even if all other laser stats are on par with other turrets at the moment, the fact that you will run out of cap just on gun use and propulsion mod use makes them very poor choices for long fights. I find it kind of funny when they talk about Amarr needing smaller cargo holds because their ammo is so small, when the real Amarr ammo on a lot of my fits is cap boosters. And then my ships are only viable for 5 mins or so. I think this is worse the bigger the ship gets, but I don't think it invalidates the point that lasers as a whole need a change when they need a 50% bonus on a hull to stay somewhat competitive. If Amarr would become OP with a sweeping change of say a 50% reduction on all lasers. Then I would be willing to see some small nerfs to the stats of the guns, optimal, tracking, that could be then be affected by real second bonuses on ships. So that balance is maintained. But I would say that should be a 2 or 3 step process. First change the bonus and the cap use. If OP then nerf the stats on the guns. They are still going to be the biggest cap using weapons in game and cap is life.
Cap Recharger II / Capacitor Booster / Capacitor Power relays / Capacitor Control Circuit etc.if you`re amarr and you dont like it,deal with it
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Matthias Duran
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:33:00 -
[107] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: Kestrel: Frigate skill bonuses: 5% Bonus to Missile damage per level 10% Bonus to Missile velocity per level Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M (+1), 2 L, 4 launchers Fittings: 45 PWG (+15), 180 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500(+109) / 350(+37) / 350 (+84) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 330 (+80)/ 165s (-22.5s)/ 2 (+0.667) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 (+24) / 3.27(-0.6) / 1163000 / 3.56s (-0.65) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km (+10) / 620 (+155) / 5 (+2) Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetric Signature radius: 38 (-9) Cargo capacity: 160 (-145)
Let me make sure I understand this change. You're replacing the 10% kinetic damage bonus with a 10% missile velocity bonus and giving it an extra mid. I'd say that chances are the new Kestrel is inferior to the old one despite the extra mid and fittings. What do you say to a 5% ROF bonus over that 5% Damage bonus?
This. Although the kestrel will end up significantly easier to fit compared to now, these numbers mean its going to get a damage nerf - and its not exactly known to be a dps powerhouse now.
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Vakr Onzo
Elite Amarr Navy Academy
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:44:00 -
[108] - Quote
Matthias Duran wrote: This. Although the kestrel will end up significantly easier to fit compared to now, these numbers mean its going to get a damage nerf - and its not exactly known to be a dps powerhouse now.
So a 5% damage bonus to all four damage types is strictly worse than a 10% bonus to a single damage type?
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1875
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:50:00 -
[109] - Quote
Vakr Onzo wrote:Matthias Duran wrote: This. Although the kestrel will end up significantly easier to fit compared to now, these numbers mean its going to get a damage nerf - and its not exactly known to be a dps powerhouse now.
So a 5% damage bonus to all four damage types is strictly worse than a 10% bonus to a single damage type?
It already had a 5% damage bonus to all damage types. So yes.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Vakr Onzo
Elite Amarr Navy Academy
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:56:00 -
[110] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Vakr Onzo wrote:Matthias Duran wrote: This. Although the kestrel will end up significantly easier to fit compared to now, these numbers mean its going to get a damage nerf - and its not exactly known to be a dps powerhouse now.
So a 5% damage bonus to all four damage types is strictly worse than a 10% bonus to a single damage type? It already had a 5% damage bonus to all damage types. So yes. -Liang Yes but is losing 5% bonus to kinetic for 10% velocity really that bad?
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1876
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:58:00 -
[111] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote: You gotta be kidding me. You're just bullshitting me now.
I think I'm done discussing things with you.
Tip: nobody cares about Crusader balance dicussions from 3 or more years ago when since then blasters, railguns, rockets, artillery and autocannons have been buffed.
The discussions I'm referring to are in reference to a modern Slicer, Retribution, and Crusader. There's nothing that's changed about lasers and damage application in the mean time... so really all this talk about blasters, rails, and rockets is just throwing **** at a wall and hoping something sticks.
You truly do not understand how incredibly powerful tracking bonuses are on frigates. For example, did you know that you shouldn't fit damage mods in most interceptor battles? Why? Because tracking is critical.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1876
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:59:00 -
[112] - Quote
Vakr Onzo wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Vakr Onzo wrote:Matthias Duran wrote: This. Although the kestrel will end up significantly easier to fit compared to now, these numbers mean its going to get a damage nerf - and its not exactly known to be a dps powerhouse now.
So a 5% damage bonus to all four damage types is strictly worse than a 10% bonus to a single damage type? It already had a 5% damage bonus to all damage types. So yes. -Liang Yes but is losing 5% bonus to kinetic for 10% velocity really that bad?
There's no reason to use this Kestrel over the old Kestrel and certainly no reason to use it over a Condor.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 19:02:00 -
[113] - Quote
Recoil IV wrote: Cap Recharger II / Capacitor Booster / Capacitor Power relays / Capacitor Control Circuit etc.if you`re amarr and you dont like it,deal with it
And Cap Batteries...lol.
3 of which are mid slots. Amarr have so many of those, and don't need them for prop mods, tackle, ewar, more tracking or eccm..
1 is a rig. Which I'm sure other races have to use a rig for cap stability... the prerequisite ability of being able to fire at all for Amarr.
1 is a low slot, which we do have a lot of, but takes away from our tank or gank, which is all Amarr really have.
I already deal with it, but I can also argue for a buff. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
248
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 19:05:00 -
[114] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Ok I gonna bring this up here, how many gallente pilots are tired of drone/hybrid combo ships. They are the only race that doesn't get seperate weapon platform ships. Every drone ship gets a hybrid bonus (myrmidon aside) it would be nice if the drone ships were drone ships and the hybrid ships were hybrid ships. Give the drone ships drone hp bonuses, tracking bonuses, optimum range bonuses, damage bonuses, mwd speed bonuses or logistic/ewar bonuses.
I'm very much in favour of this. Enough of the split weapon systems. If it be a drone boat, give it drones and drone bonuses. If it's a hybrid boat, give it hybrid bonuses. But none of this wishy-washy hybrid/drone nonsense. Make up your mind and stick to it. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1876
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Posted - 2012.08.16 19:05:00 -
[115] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:I already deal with it, but I can also argue for a buff.
Argue for a buff in the correct areas. Lasers are incredibly powerful weapons systems and most of the "problems" people are pointing out with cap use bonuses are in fact with the hulls in question instead of the bonus.
Seriously, you guys are complaining that the Armageddon is underpowered.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
97
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Posted - 2012.08.16 19:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Vakr Onzo wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Vakr Onzo wrote:Matthias Duran wrote: This. Although the kestrel will end up significantly easier to fit compared to now, these numbers mean its going to get a damage nerf - and its not exactly known to be a dps powerhouse now.
So a 5% damage bonus to all four damage types is strictly worse than a 10% bonus to a single damage type? It already had a 5% damage bonus to all damage types. So yes. -Liang Yes but is losing 5% bonus to kinetic for 10% velocity really that bad? There's no reason to use this Kestrel over the old Kestrel and certainly no reason to use it over a Condor. -Liang
A buff to tracking helps turrets properly engage other frigates. A buffer to explosive velocity is more what missile frigates need to engage other frigates, rather than missile velocity. Missile velocity helps, but if light missiles are already doing around 4km/s base, a 10% per level bonus really isn't impacting performance in a fight much at all. 5% bonus to missile velocity and explosive velocity would be fairly heavenly. |
Ogogov
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
27
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Posted - 2012.08.16 19:09:00 -
[117] - Quote
Quote: Tristan: Frigate skill bonuses: 7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level 10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets, 0 launchers (-2) Fittings: 35 PWG (-3), 130 CPU (+5) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(-41) / 450(+20) / 550 (+167) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 350 / 175s (-59.38s)/ 2 (+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 (+4) / 3.44 (-0.21) / 1106000 (+100000) / 3.56s (-0.02) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 (+20) / 40 (+35) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km (+12.5) / 600 (+10) / 5 Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric Signature radius: 41 (-1) Cargo capacity: 140
Thank you for getting rid of the moronic split weapons system on the tristan. I'm interested to see how the drone tracking bonus works in actuality, I have a feeling it'll be less effective but whatever, it looks like the rebalancing initiative is in good hands.
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
970
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Posted - 2012.08.16 19:16:00 -
[118] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:
The ships are already borderline OP with a laser cap bonus. I think giving them other bonuses might just push them all the way over. But yeah - let's see what the devs say.
/shrug
-Liang
Lasers in general are the least used weapon in PvP nowadays as evidenced by these statistics: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20But I'm sure you'll be telling me that statistics don't mean anything while your opinion and anecdotes do.
Yes, please, use EVEkill as concrete evidence, you know, the site that lists AAA as the number one alliance but fails to take into account the man that killed his alts 100 times in t1 frigates to help keep that number high.
Raw numbers should never be used as facts because they can be interpreted differently by different people.
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Azula Kishtar
Lonely among the Stars
4
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Posted - 2012.08.16 19:18:00 -
[119] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
There's no reason to use this Kestrel over the old Kestrel and certainly no reason to use it over a Condor.
-Liang
The current Kestrel has fitting and cap problems with LMLs, MWD and long point. It has more DPS than the new Kestrel (with kinetic), but i would assume CCP considered the planned damage increase to Light Missiles in general when they made the new Kestrel.
Rocket Kestrel just died with the changes of course.
I would however agree that the Condor has a lot of advantages over the new (or old) Kestrel. It's a real nice little ship, that Condor.....
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
971
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Posted - 2012.08.16 19:25:00 -
[120] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:ap stability... the prerequisite ability of being able to fire at all for Amarr.
Haha, who in the world tries to make amarr ships cap stable?
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