don't call it dec shield. call it "its a trap" or "ackbar foundation"

hope they never fix this. highsec wars have always been BS and dec shield is the best shield.

This solves the opposite problem than the one Wardecs actually have (namely, the ease by which defenders can escape*).

But it amuses me, so I approve wholeheartedly.


*Especially since WarDecs are now officially "paying for targets," those targets ability to freely disband and reform their corp is a significant problem.

We've just acquired our first war with a sov holding nullsec alliance.

oh thast easy to get around.

once you boot the "wardecced" corp from alliance they cannot rejoin for a week .

so redec the corp. and collect easy kills from dec shield like before.

You might consider reading the OP before pooh-poohing it.

DecShield 2.0 isn't about shedding decs, it's about trapping the attacker into a permadec with the Alliance and the various PvP people who might join it.

This is so devious...

No, it really isn't. I've considered doing this for a while but don't really have the time nor the visibility to make anything out of it.

Now what happens to the corps once they drop from Dec Shield. Do they now get a copy of all mutual wars against dec shield?

No, it really isn't. I've considered doing this for a while but don't really have the time nor the visibility to make anything out of it.

I considered doing this since last year!

Ya, a lot of our current wars have stagnated, or people transferred out of the corps. It'll probably be a few weeks before we pick up enough live wardecs to present targets. But you're right, you'll probably get sucked into a permawar with us sooner or later. Right now we're sitting at 58 wars, with another 4-5 in the next 24hrs.

Wardec mechanics are like swiss cheese - full of holes

Nothing really changes for c0ven as we did not expect to escape the mutual war with Penumbra Institute anyway. But the idea is funny.

You are both welcome to join Dec Shield at your leisure to siphon off our wars and bring them back to your own corps/alliances. Since you can get exact copies of our wars, we can continue to spread these wars between countless entities in the game, never allowing any to escape.

Last night we trapped C0VEN alliance into a permanent wardec from which they'll never escape. We also had 'Bridgeburnners' disband to avoid being permanently trapped. They reformed into Rock Hard Innovations, when they start another war we'll have them again. We're also getting continuous surrender offers from VR Corp, P I R A T, Die Wildgaense, etc etc. I've been deleting notifications because there are too many. The tears must flow.

You are both welcome to join Dec Shield at your leisure to siphon off our wars and bring them back to your own corps/alliances. Since you can get exact copies of our wars, we can continue to spread these wars between countless entities in the game, never allowing any to escape.

Last night we trapped C0VEN alliance into a permanent wardec from which they'll never escape. We also had 'Bridgeburnners' disband to avoid being permanently trapped. They reformed into Rock Hard Innovations, when they start another war we'll have them again. We're also getting continuous surrender offers from VR Corp, P I R A T, Die Wildgaense, etc etc. I've been deleting notifications because there are too many. The tears must flow.

I'm afraid if I join I'll wake up one day with you standing over me with that look on your face.

I'm afraid if I join I'll wake up one day with you standing over me with that look on your face.

People tell me I have a trustworthy face

Looks like you managed to pick up some tears on the Suggestions forum.....

Waaaa Mum, make the game change to suit me.

I cannot help but applaud the way you make "creative" use of the highsec wardec mechanics. Keep it up!

I understand why you're doing this, and I support your efforts, even though we're likely to get trapped in a war with Dec Shield sooner rather than later.

I do lament for the state of empire pvp, however. After having been here for so long, it really bums me out to know that it will only get worse and worse as time goes on. It's ridiculous that CCP considers being stuck in a blanket war "risk" while affording the defenders full control over their own and the aggressors' movements.

I can swallow being stuck in a permanent war, but why exactly should the original targets be allowed to leave an alliance that sets the war mutual? This mechanic, along with corp-hopping, provides defenders with total immunity. If the defenders time their actions just right, then it's impossible to even have a time window in which they can be aggressed. Between hopping alliances and remaking corporations, it's impossible to even have a chance of shooting your targets, despite paying by the person (CCP's words, not mine) to do so.

Will this particular "feature" be addressed at some point in the future? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it will. The real question is, at the expense of what?

Any corporations that drop out of C0VEN I believe will remain in permanent outgoing wardecs, and never be able to join an alliance again (corps with outgoing wars can't join alliances).

What the ****, are you for real? Is that the way it actually works? I'm not into alliance stuff, so I don't have firsthand experience, but is this the way it works now?

How is this even a thing? :\

It's truly sad to see how fast we can spread these wars. C0VEN was at war with Penumbra Institute (a 13 man corp that was harassing them), and C0VEN wanted to pursue them into highsec for vengeance. Now C0VEN is trapped in 7 wars, and that number will only escalate. Any corporations that drop out of C0VEN I believe will remain in permanent outgoing wardecs, and never be able to join an alliance again (corps with outgoing wars can't join alliances).

I'm pretty sure that's how it works, but I haven't explicitly tested it yet. The more ways I carve it, the more ways I find our victims are screwed.

If this is really how it works i see no future for your business because there is no way this wont be taken as an exploit and fixed.

Could it be that that is his intention?

That's the reason DecShield 1.0 was formed, so it stands to reason...

Wow you must have loads of kills.

Let me count them up....0+0+0+0+0+0+0 x 10 = 0

I would be impressed if you were achieving anything. Unfortunatley it seems unsuspecting corps are falling for this drivel and realising they themselves face not just one hostile but however many you have 'Trapped'

I wonder how many have closed because of this. Looking at the membership of the corps that have joined and left you since this new mechanic has been in place it would seem you are having the opposite effect to what you claim to be providing.

I think all three of us might be operating under a too-optimistic assumption that CCP wants to preserve pvp in high-sec.

If this is really how it works i see no future for your business because there is no way this wont be taken as an exploit and fixed.

Many of you may recall the "forever war" that the Goons and others got trapped in shortly after these new mechanics were put in place, where the Goons dec'd (aggressed) a corp, and that corp made the war both mutual and open to allies, locking them into a never-ceasing war with potentially unlimited numbers joining it against them, for free. CCP nipped that in the bud, and now we have ally contracts lasting only 2 weeks, they cost ISK, and mutual wars now allow no allies. I believe this situation to be no different from that, and hope CCP acts equally as quickly to address it.

/T

Mutual wars ostensibly allow no allies... but the sad fact is that the mutual status of the war can be toggled at will without limitation: the war can be made mutual only as often as it needs to be to continue its free status, and allies can be piled on as desired at all other times.

Mutual status of a war needs to be only toggleable twice: once turned on, then off again, it must be impossible to re-mutual. Engaging mutual status in a war must drop all allies from the war, and perhaps even make it impossible from then on to accept any allies after it has been made non-mutual again.

I'm pretty sure most of us expected it to look something like that but were sorely disappointed when it came to light just how incomplete the nuances of the mechanics really were.

They don't all bail. Only about 20% of our victims have bailed. And since we'll continue to accumulate them, the choice of highsec targets we're holding captive will only get better. Some entities will never be able to escape or disband like the nullsec alliances. If any of them are foolish enough to declare wars they'll end up screwed.

You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

Yes, because they won't be able to recruit new corps into their alliance.

You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

But these aren't just normal wars we're holding over them, these are outgoing wars. And alliance with an outgoing war CANNOT recruit another corporation to the alliance, ever again. If any corporations ever leave that alliance, they'll also have outgoing wars. A corporation with an outgoing war CANNOT join an alliance, ever again.

You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

Hey was it before or after the change that forced the highsec corps to drop the wardecs on goons, that they started to suicide gank in niarja with their mains????

During that Wardec, weren't they too busy with HAG suicide ganking Hulks?

Fine you say, so they deserve that. But these aren't just normal wars we're holding over them, these are outgoing wars. And alliance with an outgoing war CANNOT recruit another corporation to the alliance, ever again. If any corporations ever leave that alliance, they'll also have outgoing wars. A corporation with an outgoing war CANNOT join an alliance, ever again.

RIP C0ven.

EDIT : ZO, will you make your maths ? You can beat Privateer's wardec record !

During that Wardec, weren't they too busy with HAG suicide ganking Hulks?

If an alliance with outgoing wars cant accept new corporation, how are corporations able to join Dec Shield and spread new wars then?

EDIT : ZO, will you make your maths ? You can beat Privateer's wardec record !

Wait, seriously?

Jesus Christ CCP.

You mean because there was only a short time frame of 2 months before the patch when this was possible rather than ALL the years when they were wardecced?

Whe?

I was responding to the claim that suicide ganking freighters was only possible because they weren't wardecced. I pointed out that, during the last big wardec they weren't suicide ganking freighters because they were too busy suicide ganking exhumers.

As a big old bonus, being wardecced would not affect their suicide gank strategies with Freighters either (from what I understand, they spend most of their time logged off to avoid ze faction Popo, only logging in once the target is picked and bumped off the gate).

Yes and i made the claim because they arent doing by alpha strikes. They are using the cheapest hull they can get, catalysts, brutixes, and bump things offgate to get as much time as possible. If they were wardecced, they would have to switch to arty ships and get one shot off on the gate, or do it with alts out of alliance. But they, being goonswarm, crave for attention, so doing it in alt characters is out of the questions and we wouldnt have a 20 pages long "goon freighter suicide gank" thread.

As to the hulkageddon thing, it wasnt an operation in one system, you cant hunt catalysts in whole eve. But you can camp a single system and wait for their freighter ganking squad. And they were constantly and repeatedly wardecced by different highsec griefing corps/alliances, probably for longer than 5 hulkageddon durations combined.

You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

Yes, I'm quite positive that wardecs have massive effects on nullsec alliances. Moar Tears demonstrated this over and over again by killing dozens of jump freighters every month that belonged to nullsec alliances. Nullsec alliances don't have military arms in highsec, thus their lowbies get picked off regularily.

Fine you say, so they deserve that. But these aren't just normal wars we're holding over them, these are outgoing wars. And alliance with an outgoing war CANNOT recruit another corporation to the alliance, ever again. If any corporations ever leave that alliance, they'll also have outgoing wars. A corporation with an outgoing war CANNOT join an alliance, ever again.

Meh, we're more likely to end up at war with you guys. It's not going to be a huge difference either way tbh. We joined DS last time around and didn't see jack **** for like 3 weeks.

Widders you did it wrong cuz my crew got like 20 bill in kills with Dec Shield (we had this convo already)

and yes this "tarp" Zerg set up can easily be translated into an infinite source of tears

combined with my corp jumping tactics this can be a devastating strategy

edit: inb4 here are the reasons why you and your crew didn't kill anything when in Dec Shield

editedit: inb4 Jita camping isn't an option (l33tsauce do it differently)

This is the only real drawback of a perma war. But it can be easily bypassed by creating a sacrificial corp and joining it in order to join null sec ally. After you get bored you can just disband the corp and join your old one as wars don't follow players.

On the other hand c0ven can now wardec their null sec enemies without any remorse. Our war with tribal band was a nice change of pace. We had tons of fun and can now say that null sec is a lot better place for pvp

On the topic of mechanics one simple change would solve the issue and made the wardecs work as intended. In case of mutual war both sides should be flagged as aggressors. Both the aggressor and defender have to make a conscious decision about declaring war on each other. Only way to get out of war would be surrender or disband for both sides of the conflict which in my opinion would make the system fair.

Have to correct one thing:
Alliances with outgoing wars can still accept corporations. Ive tested this the last 2 days. However, corps with outgoing wars cant apply to alliances.
I support the change, that in a mutual war both sides should be counted aggressors though.

And here you see the OCD plagued part of me whining that all these wardecs make the war history look bad, even with no interactions in those wars :(((

Well, if this is a know issue, and some people are abusing it, ( Despite the fact that this is really fun) , there should be some disciplinary actions over the abusers sooner or latter... maybe some acc bans? and tears?

Apparently if you've got too many wardecs the UI breaks and you can't scroll to the bottom of the menu to accept the corp:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1210/2012.10.01.21.14.23.jpg

luckily you can still use the keyboard to blindly hit accept :)

Dear CCP,

This is broken.

In honor of you, I have wrote u a peomz that wurk just like the new wardec systim:

Roses are Red
Bacon is red
Poems are Hard
Bacon.

sinsearlie,
--Mong


edited: for speeling

FREE BUMP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1__dINxiXU

Collectively we are but mist.

It made me happy to see the initiative was responding once again.

Death to the less than.

Juda

Sff, cool story bro.

Maybe if you had something more productive to do with your time, instead of investing your time into this joke organization, which as far as I can tell employees tactics that only involve spam mailing people as a deterrent to a war dec... which is ofc ineffective... you'd be much more happy not only in eve, but no doubt in rl as well...

I for one enjoy the daily mails from "dec shield ambassador 1-5." It lets me know that you're still trying... very hard.

Thank you for allowing us to become involved in the plotted down fall of your lame idea, practice, and ofc existence.

Cya around and kind regards,

ED

Well here's another unintended consequence of the broken rules.

1.) A corp offers a surrender to us for 70mil isk
2.) I drop a corp out of Dec Shield
3.) Accept their surrender to the alliance, get the 70mil isk
4.) Accept dropped corp back into alliance, resume war

Surrender mechanics are also made pointless by the current ruleset, but thanks for the isk \o/

I may be willing to pay you to NOT post what's broken in the future.

Hey Vegas, do you have any idea why ZO is doing this ?
Protip : it's written somewhere.
Protip-¦ : you don't get it.

Quoted for tears. umad bro?

I'm not sure what you mean by spam mails. I can only assume you're referring to all the notifications you get of your wars being copied and ended by various entities that pass in/out of the alliance. The ambassador corps have been a highly effective program at obtaining wars from alliances. Any notification you get about one of them means we obtained another few wars.

And if you hadn't noticed, we're trying to be taken out by CCP. We want wardecs fixed much more than you do, as we're actually investing isk, time, and energy towards solving the problem:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1969901

But you can still be mad, I know that feel bro

Lulz....

"There must be some way out of here.... said the joker to the thief."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1__dINxiXU

I call shenanigans on you good sir ^_^


http://i48.tinypic.com/125qt5k.jpg

After a year of this charade you are ether really stupid or just plan insane, assuming your statement is an accurate reflection of your intent... Regardless, we look forward to getting to know you.

I'm not sure what charade you're referring to. Your picture shows that Dec Shield has been around for a while, which is true. Our first iteration was in protest against the GM ruling to overturn the ban on alliance wardec shedding, so that's what we did. And we did a LOT of it, for over 450 corporations:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=22792

our alliance logo and message were directly aimed at provoking a response from CCP to change the rules to stop us:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1111/DecShield.jpg

We did massive protesting and constrUctive feeDback to Institute wardEc mechanic changes, and we talked quite regularily with the community at the time, which is why everyone knew our intentions and goals:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29894


After the expansion that changed wardecs we lay dormant under the assumption that CCP had actually fixed wardecs. We were wrong. A few weeks ago we began investigating again after hearing rumors, and that's when we decided to fire up Dec Shield again to provoke a change in wardec mechanics. So far we're getting a lot of publicity and spreading the message quite effectively.

We have a very thorough list of things currently wrong with wardecs, and the ways to fix things here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=157449

So it's kind of hard to claim we aren't working to fix things. The added bonus is we get to grief people along the way, and it's all for a good cause. There will be tears until we are stopped

The Zerg Overmind, bringer of free targets, new loot and more pvp....... We want you as Alliance CEO!

OK, Im really missing something. How is any player in the aggressor corp trapped? Cannot everyone in the aggressor corp simply drop corp and form a new one, thus nullifying all the effects of Dec Shield?

I'm not sure what charade you're referring to. Your picture shows that Dec Shield has been around for a while, which is true. Our first iteration was in protest against the GM ruling to overturn the ban on alliance wardec shedding, so that's what we did. And we did a LOT of it, for over 450 corporations:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=22792

our alliance logo and message were directly aimed at provoking a response from CCP to change the rules to stop us:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1111/DecShield.jpg

We did massive protesting and constructive feedback to institute wardec mechanic changes, and we talked quite regularily with the community at the time, which is why everyone knew our intentions and goals:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29894


After the expansion that changed wardecs we lay dormant under the assumption that CCP had actually fixed wardecs. We were wrong. A few weeks ago we began investigating again after hearing rumors, and that's when we decided to fire up Dec Shield again to provoke a change in wardec mechanics. So far we're getting a lot of publicity and spreading the message quite effectively.

We have a very thorough list of things currently wrong with wardecs, and the ways to fix things here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=157449

So it's kind of hard to claim we aren't working to fix things. The added bonus is we get to grief people along the way, and it's all for a good cause. There will be tears until we are stopped

[quote=The Zerg Overmind]
Well then, I'd have to say you're insane. The repetitive motions you are currently engaged in will have no different outcome, no matter how many times you repeat the routine. Your expectation of otherwise is by definition insane. It would seem that you have become the goal or epitome of of what you sought with regards to an attempted deconstruction of the protocol, in game dynamics.

I am glad, and I express gratitude for what you have done. In your own inability to grasp an in-game policy you have made it possible for my rag-tag group to indulgent in our darker sides, justified only by your infatuation with debunking a system.

Keep up the good work.

;-)

-KcD

That's a lot of big words coming from a child who's so obviously mad. Why are you so distraught?

So far I am really enjoying this dec shield thing. It gives us free new targets to shoot at (including loot , tears, etc) and it doesn't costs us anything. We even make money with it, by sending surrender mails to people who have a mutual war with us. If they pay, we wont dec em for weeks after they drop the mutual war. If they don't pay, we 'll destroy their corp till its dead.

I think this is the most fun I had since the Jita Burn thing from Goons

Only annoying thing is, that you can have a lot of mutual wars with dead corps and that there can always join a bigger fish in Dec Shield. But then again.....they will be at war with all of the others. And we are working closely together with many more pvp corps who are 'trapped'

So far..... Dec Shield <3

ughhh... only if I had the energy.

I don't even...

Oh, watch out guys. We have a real hardman on our hands here.

Well then, I'd have to say you're insane. The repetitive motions you are currently engaged in will have no different outcome, no matter how many times you repeat the routine. Your expectation of otherwise is by definition insane. It would seem that you have become the goal or epitome of of what you sought with regards to an attempted deconstruction of the protocol, in game dynamics.

I am glad, and I express gratitude for what you have done. In your own inability to grasp an in-game policy you have made it possible for my rag-tag group to indulgent in our darker sides, justified only by your infatuation with debunking a system.

Keep up the good work.

;-)

-KcD

Quite an elegant way to say absolutely nothing at all.

So I'm back from Vegas now. I talked to Veritas and Soundwave quite a bit, and they find the entire thing hilarious. Soundwave gave me his business card so I could give him details about things, and Veritas was just enjoying everyone's misfortune. They were both really cool guys. Veritas was very chaotic neutral about everything.

In short, it seems they plan to let us continue for quite some time, as they haven't received enough complaints or requests to change things yet. So for the foreseeable future we'll all be able to enjoy these wars together.

This is the same soundwave that covered for goons, has a history of dismissible poor in-gaming biases, and who has lead eve into the oblivion that it currently rest?

I'll never forget the conversation he had with goons just before fanfest... you know the fanfest where that dude said people should kill themselves. Soundwave chuckled about it when told it would happen, he found it funny.

I'll create my own opinion of what you're doing... thank you 4 your update though. I'm looking forward to the aussie meet coming up soon, as is much of eve from what I understand.

;-)

So I'm back from Vegas now. I talked to Veritas and Soundwave quite a bit, and they find the entire thing hilarious. Soundwave gave me his business card so I could give him details about things, and Veritas was just enjoying everyone's misfortune. They were both really cool guys. Veritas was very chaotic neutral about everything.

In short, it seems they plan to let us continue for quite some time, as they haven't received enough complaints or requests to change things yet. So for the foreseeable future we'll all be able to enjoy these wars together.

Well, I understand the hilarity part, but do they really see no issue with permanently locking corporations out of joining alliances? Or that their "surrender" feature is completely useless, despite the "massive" development effort it took them to implement it? I think that says a lot about our developers, really. If they hate wars so much, then why not just remove them?

Well here's another unintended consequence of the broken rules.

1.) A corp offers a surrender to us for 70mil isk
2.) I drop a corp out of Dec Shield
3.) Accept their surrender to the alliance, get the 70mil isk
4.) Accept dropped corp back into alliance, resume war

Surrender mechanics are also made pointless by the current ruleset, but thanks for the isk \o/

They don't hate wars. It's just a lesser priority right now until we make it important enough. And I've got something brewing here that might raise the evilness factor by 100 fold. Just sit tight and we'll see if we can burn the galaxy together.

They don't hate wars. It's just a lesser priority right now until we make it important enough. And I've got something brewing here that might raise the evilness factor by 100 fold. Just sit tight and we'll see if we can burn the galaxy together.

Zerg is having fun trouble shooting parts of Eve. He's providing a valuable service while being paid in tears. Not a bad trade-off imo.

You depict (2) GM's as being heinous game haXors wielding their power-wand in all aspects of the game. For this alone, you are bad.

CCP are publishers... they allow you to have conflict through free-interaction otherwise this game would be no more interesting than your real life.

This topic. Not that serious.

Aussie meet, nobody cares.

I'm afraid to ask. I see you finally made the war mutual. Should I be stocking up on tampons?

On topic: What is the benefit of making a war mutual Zerg? Ofc we are at war, so fun and shenanigans will be, and should be had. That is the nature and fun within this game we play. I bs you, you bs me. And so the universe functions as it should.

Kind regards,

-KcD

You didn't read the thread at all did you?
The benefit of him making the war mutual is that now your corporation can never join an alliance ever again. Your war also can now be transferred to anyone at any-time for any length of time. in 24 hours notice you could be at war with any entity, some of which could lay dormant for months or years.

Now you might be thinking, I don't want to join an alliance anyway, and that you don't care that you could be at war with anyone at anytime, and that your corporation is only 5 members strong so disbanding it is no big deal right?

Thats exactly the point Zerg is trying to make. These new rules make deccing anyone in anything aside from a throw-away alt corp completely stupid. The whole point of the changes was to plug exploits, and make war something where you commit, but at the same time, get rid of bullying and 1 man-shows, however ironically the inferno rules encourage just that. Want to dec that corp that keeps can flipping/harrasing/stealing from your missions/griefing you? Want to dec the pirates camping the pipe to 0.0 to your space? Want to dec the people who keep camping your 0.0 entry gate but jump to the safety of highsec everytime your PvPers arrive? Want to dec the rival corporation who is mining your ore or producing the same stuff as you? Want to become a mercenary outfit?

Well good luck with that. Now for almost any ""legitimate"" (Air Quotes needed) reason to go to war other than on your alt in a throwaway corp for lulz has horrendous consequences. Never being able to join an alliance again, and locked permanently in an at war corp with anyone who wants to be at war with you, which could just be a 1 man alt corporation which stays logged off for 5 months, or a guy who is constantly stalking you, you don't know, you will always have to look over your shoulder.

Any alliance gets caught with this now also faces unique problems. All of it's members suffer the same fate, and any member corp that wishes to join said alliance will suffer the same fate, the infected alliance will be the last alliance that any applying corp, or any member corporation ever applies too, if they leave, they can't join another alliance ever again without disbanding.

Also worth pointing out that alliances can also seek the warm protection of dec-shield.

1. Create an alt corporation, bonus points for appropriate name such as "lolnomorealliancesforu"
2. Apply and Accept it into your alliance.
3. IF you ever get war declared on your alliance, "lolnomorealliancesforu" leaves the alliance, and applies to join Dec-Shield. After 24 hours, Now your aggressors can never join an alliance ever again!! Or if it's alliance, all its current and future members get infected and can never join an alliance afterwards ever again! And they also all have to deal with the threat of being at war permanently, and the war can be transferred to any willing entity within 24 hours, forever.
????
4. Profit!!.... err... well tears and hopefully a whine thread and petitions so CCP can fix this ****** mechanic.

Don't forget to put this information and a link to this thread in your alliance description!!

You didn't read the thread at all did you?
The benefit of him making the war mutual is that now your corporation can never join an alliance ever again. Your war also can now be transferred to anyone at any-time for any length of time. in 24 hours notice you could be at war with any entity, some of which could lay dormant for months or years.

Now you might be thinking, I don't want to join an alliance anyway, and that you don't care that you could be at war with anyone at anytime, and that your corporation is only 5 members strong so disbanding it is no big deal right?

Thats exactly the point Zerg is trying to make. These new rules make deccing anyone in anything aside from a throw-away alt corp completely stupid. The whole point of the changes was to plug exploits, and make war something where you commit, but at the same time, get rid of bullying and 1 man-shows, however ironically the inferno rules encourage just that. Want to dec that corp that keeps can flipping/harrasing/stealing from your missions/griefing you? Want to dec the pirates camping the pipe to 0.0 to your space? Want to dec the people who keep camping your 0.0 entry gate but jump to the safety of highsec everytime your PvPers arrive? Want to dec the rival corporation who is mining your ore or producing the same stuff as you? Want to become a mercenary outfit?

Well good luck with that. Now for almost any ""legitimate"" (Air Quotes needed) reason to go to war other than on your alt in a throwaway corp for lulz has horrendous consequences. Never being able to join an alliance again, and locked permanently in an at war corp with anyone who wants to be at war with you, which could just be a 1 man alt corporation which stays logged off for 5 months, or a guy who is constantly stalking you, you don't know, you will always have to look over your shoulder.

Any alliance gets caught with this now also faces unique problems. All of it's members suffer the same fate, and any member corp that wishes to join said alliance will suffer the same fate, the infected alliance will be the last alliance that any applying corp, or any member corporation ever applies too, if they leave, they can't join another alliance ever again without disbanding.

if something looks too good to be true, it usually is.... so where did I make a mistake?

1) My corp joins Dec Shield (if all else fails, I decc myself with a disposable alt-corp so they accept me)
=> I now have 100+ incoming wars while in Dec Shield
=> alt corp is screwed (but disposable)
2) My corp leaves Dec Shield (You will boot me out once you have alt-corp's war, right?)
=> my corp, now out of your alliance, still has the 100+ incoming wars
3) I make all these wars "mutual" (or only the ones I like)

=> I now have a corporation that has about 100 free eternal wars, I can join my pvp-chars whenever I see fit and have them leave the corp when needed. Without any consequences to those pvp-chars. The pvp-chars can leve-join MyCorp unrestricted?
=> I do not have to pay anything for these wars.
=> Al long as I keep the wars mutual (for free?) the other party can not end those wars.

Of course, I keep an eye on Dec Shield to see if they harvest any 'intersting' new wars, and rejoin them if so :-)

I must have overlooked something somewhere....

A very painful realization.

Being at war with Dec Shield makes us no longer able to declare new wars.

You might say "sure, you can still declare wars!" Technically, you're right. But each corporation that leaves Dec Shield creates its own war. And each new war that is created raises the price of declaring a new war by 50 million ISK. Today, about seven corporations left Dec Shield. When I went to declare war on a separate target, I noticed that the cost to do so would be 400 million.

This is already in the realm of impossibility to be able to afford. But the worst part is, that if this continues, we will no longer be able to take mercenary jobs, since clients will not pay such high war fees even if we do the actual work for free.

So, Zerg, what this essentially means is that if you cycle about 20 alt corporations in and out of your alliance on a weekly basis, all of Dec Shield's currently-trapped targets will have war bills so expensive that they won't be able to declare new wars.

Time to disband and reform as Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Knitting Company?

We will never do that. This corporation is our pride. We've been around for many years with a 100% positive reputation as a mercenary corporation. Disbanding is not an option.

Basically, we're stuck like this until CCP makes changes. It was hard to find paying clients before this happened, but now it will be impossible. Within a week, the fee to declare war will probably reach the billion-ISK mark. No client will pay that much just for the fee. We can offer to work for free, and still no one will hire us. Declaring wars for personal reasons is also out of the question.

We're stuck like this.

Down to suicide ganks and infiltrations then?
... until CCP utterly destroys that as well.

CCP is making it fairly obvious that they no longer want us here. I've always given the devs the benefit of the doubt for all eight of my years here, but all people have their limits. Every year, something gets taken away, and nothing gets added for players like us. Logging in is starting to feel like an exercise in futility, and I'm not simply saying that because I feel burned out. I've been burned out before, but I always came back after short breaks.

This time it's different. This time it feels like I should be looking for a new game as a permanent solution.

proof that the best tears in game are merc tears

I hope you're a grown man, cuz I like.. well it's in my signature O_o

In short, it seems they plan to let us continue for quite some time, as they haven't received enough complaints or requests to change things yet.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Dec_Shield/corporations

4 single player corps? Are you resetting to lighten the war load? Or are PvP corps preferring to leave and only keep the decs they want?

Sounds like a good idea but someone obviously didn't read the patch details....As a aggressor corp/alliance i find this very funny....Said corp enter with 1 war and then leave with so many they can't even hope to move for 1 week...Thats right the wars go with you for 1 week people.....Read the patch notes..Dec shield started out as a good idea before the patch but now is really useless for a corp that is trying to get out of a dec....Now if your a pvp corp then its party time or a aggressor alliance like we are It just adds up to free targets for 1 week....

Had our first Dec Shield customer kill today.

It was fun, but I still wish I could declare new wars without paying half a billion. I don't mind a forever war, but can I at least continue to be a mercenary? I mean, CCP used that word more times than the current presidential candidates used "middle-class" in their campaigns.

That's funny, you were begging on your knees in an email to me to surrender for a billion. And then got very irate once I refused to let your tears end. Perhaps you missed that part of the story?

What a sad and sorry group of incapable, unwilling, misfits that you lead. If you'd only take the time to train them, help them, guide them they would not cower in the dark, uninformed and afraid of their petty foe they believe is grand.

You, Zerg, if that if your main... are a cancer on this game. Your offenses will not be forgotten.

Your bitter tears of anguish sustain us. I don't believe this is the first time we've heard you choking up, feebly attempting to mask that you sob yourself to sleep each night, impotent to prevent us from owning you. And yes, we own you, as is self evident by your failure to step back and accept your rapid decline to oblivion.

With each post you demonstrate your complete failure to understand the organizational structure and purpose of Dec Shield. Which is quite a remarkable demonstration of your slow wit, being that I've outlined it incredibly clearly and detailed every aspect of our operation.

We have been civil and courteous, even offering you a place at our side to enjoy the glorious gauntlet of 100 wars, and you choose to shed tears instead. Well those tears shall no longer go to waste. We'll keep a bucket open just for you, and when you've filled it with tears we shall release it to the community so that all may share in your hilarious disgrace. Please, retort.

Your bitter tears of anguish sustain us. I don't believe this is the first time we've heard you choking up, feebly attempting to mask that you sob yourself to sleep each night, impotent to prevent us from owning you. And yes, we own you, as is self evident by your failure to step back and accept your rapid decline to oblivion.

With each post you demonstrate your complete failure to understand the organizational structure and purpose of Dec Shield. Which is quite a remarkable demonstration of your slow wit, being that I've outlined it incredibly clearly and detailed every aspect of our operation.

We have been civil and courteous, even offering you a place at our side to enjoy the glorious gauntlet of 100 wars, and you choose to shed tears instead. Well those tears shall no longer go to waste. We'll keep a bucket open just for you, and when you've filled it with tears we shall release it to the community so that all may share in your hilarious disgrace. Please, retort.

I've been working on this new strategy. One time I seen this dude take out a medium pos in high sec with a nightmare and and a nighthawk. He could range the guns. Was very impressive. I can't want until I find one of your clients pos's. I've been wanted to test this for like a year now.

Thank you for dec shield.... that doesn't mean Ed is wrong though... you are a cancer m8. Just saying.... no need to get all emo about it.

KcD

Your bitter tears of anguish sustain us. I don't believe this is the first time we've heard you choking up, feebly attempting to mask that you sob yourself to sleep each night, impotent to prevent us from owning you. And yes, we own you, as is self evident by your failure to step back and accept your rapid decline to oblivion.

With each post you demonstrate your complete failure to understand the organizational structure and purpose of Dec Shield. Which is quite a remarkable demonstration of your slow wit, being that I've outlined it incredibly clearly and detailed every aspect of our operation.

We have been civil and courteous, even offering you a place at our side to enjoy the glorious gauntlet of 100 wars, and you choose to shed tears instead. Well those tears shall no longer go to waste. We'll keep a bucket open just for you, and when you've filled it with tears we shall release it to the community so that all may share in your hilarious disgrace. Please, retort.

lulz

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..................`..' -Wiggin

Best get the umbrella out. Zerg seems upset. He's going to make It rain "dec ambassador" war dec notifications xD

same corp as KcD why am I not surprised.

Ender... lulz...

Mirage... Go fck yourself. <):=D

How long do you think it will take for KcD to realize the actual point of Dec Shield? It's already been spelled out for him and pretty sure he replied directly to several of the posts telling him.

I'm going to go with never.

Wow this guy is more ruffled than a bag of potato chips. I step away for the night and come back to find he's spammed out the thread with his alts, all named the same, agreeing with himself. They even have the same forum signatures, lol

My years of Spanish has taught me that all of the alts have the last name meaning "of Cartes".

Or, he attempted to look book-smart but failed to correctly spell "Descartes".

i like being in dec shield. whith 90 ish war dec's you have wt everywere for pew pew

Or, he attempted to look book-smart but failed to correctly spell "Descartes".

Response on my petition from CCP regarding this issue:

The war declaration system feature is functioning as designed. If you're not happy with the way this feature is performing, post in the forums and it's possible a developer might read the post, they read them all the time. If they feel it's a worthy modification to pursue, it will be added to the workload.

Please keep in mind that we in Customer Support are not able discuss or make any decisions in relations to game or art design, we only deal with gameplay issues.

Best regards,

OMG!!! More "pirate" merc posers shedding tears. ZERG you've done what many have tried to do for years. Congrats my Bromannder.

Griefers, Mercs "Pirates" w/ever get serious and just go out and fight like you wanted in the first place. I get so many requests to drop my mutual wars its hilarious.

You wanted a fight, you got "Working as Intended"... stop crying and go fight.

Next is the bounty system and Crime Watch, hilarity shall ensue!!!

OMG!!! More "pirate" merc posers shedding tears. ZERG you've done what many have tried to do for years. Congrats my Bromannder.

Griefers, Mercs "Pirates" w/ever get serious and just go out and fight like you wanted in the first place. I get so many requests to drop my mutual wars its hilarious.

You wanted a fight, you got "Working as Intended"... stop crying and go fight.

Next is the bounty system and Crime Watch, hilarity shall ensue!!!

Nah, those don't count as tears. Tears would be bitter whining. This is an attempt at constructive feedback to change the game for the better. We applaud all support for the cause. I wouldn't mock those who speak up to help us. But don't worry, Decartes + alts will be back, and then we can all revel in his misery.

Be back? I never went anywhere. As I've said many times in this thread, I enjoy Dec shield and the opportunity it gives my group. I do recognize though that Dec Shield is a huge troll, so I treat it as such.

I also admit I am enjoying your astroturfing of this thread. It's your thread though, so can't say I blame you.

As for the others in my group, I can assure you they are not alts. Emerald is my wife. Ed is... well complicated... Ender is a cousin. You see we are family, and we are/were enjoying trolling a troll.

Well enough about me, I'm sure you have ships to make explode (being facetious.) I've asked my group to limit comms in your topic since one of us received a warning, and another had their post edited.

Have fun though. and maybe one day I'll see you on the battlefield.

Regards,

KcD

a family of trolls, imagine that

you guys all live in your mom's basement?

My mother passed away several months ago from cancer. It was a long and drawn out death that we were all hoping would come years ago. It was difficult, but I pulled through it, and am more strong as a result of the experience.

KcD

*edit typos

I

Bad because war decs are useful as a means of settling something between 2 groups.