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Specific Examples of Where Risk Should Be Inserted Successfully Into High-sec

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Darth Gustav Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension 1410	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:49:00 - [1] - Quote This thread will make a legitimate attempt to engage in logical discussion about changes that could be made to the system as it is to make it less lopsided with regard to risk. A lack of risk is clearly conducive to both runaway deflation (a function of Value = Demand / Supply) and to botting, due to the ease of operation. It is my hope that this discussion will be conducted in good faith by all participants. Having said that, here are specific changes I would propose to make for more balanced gameplay in High-security space: Allow smartbombs to be activated in the vicinity of anchored containers, both secure and unsecure. These containers' purpose was to hold additional ores and ices, allowing miners to increase their efficiency by remaining in the belts for a considerably longer time, given the size of cargo holds on the old barges and exhumers. Their volume is no longer conducive to anything approaching efficiency, and their ancillary presence is clearly laid out in the form of a giant smartbomb shield around high-security ice fields. That is broken. Increase the yield of the Hulk by adding additional grid and cpu and an extra hardpoint to make it a more attractive option for "ninja miners." This may encourage miners to try ninja mining in a way that makes sense, thus presenting themselves as potential targets, something needed drastically to combat botting and deflation. Introduce the chance for much more difficult NPC spawns to appear anywhere materials can be harvested, and with greater frequency. The current "threats" to mining successfully are grossly inadequate to the task, given the EHP of the new exhumers and barges. Make ice depletable in the same way that ores are. This will force adaptation where none has ever occurred, potentially even driving conflicts and increasing demand. Develop a system that legitimizes miner vs. miner conflicts over resources, such as the Ally system. Right now the only competition between miners seems to be in jockeying for the best position to be immune from smartbombs and the waiting game of trying to decide when, precisely to unload your ore. In order for high-sec activities to have value, there needs to be high demand for them with moderate supply. Runaway supply will always break the basic equation of economic theory. I would ask that discussion in this thread be kept to informed and intelligent posts of fact or question, rather than character attacks and mudslinging based on personal playstyle. As always, thank you for your thoughtful participation. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lord Ryan True Xero 693	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:51:00 - [2] - Quote Nerf U Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 1225	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:53:00 - [3] - Quote Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦ GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 769	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:54:00 - [4] - Quote Reserved for when I'm not butt-frustrated with CCP. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto
RAGE QU1T Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 30	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:58:00 - [5] - Quote Gogela wrote: Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. The game would die a horrible death, Not all players want to live in null
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 134	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:00:00 - [6] - Quote Error Code 17.39.333 : Witty response not found.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2632	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:00:00 - [7] - Quote huuhuhuhuhuhuhu, you said inserted huuhhhhuuuhhhuuhuuhhhuhu "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 770	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:05:00 - [8] - Quote RAGE QU1T wrote: Gogela wrote: Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. The game would die a horrible death, Not all players want to live in null That is one of the core problems of the game & things will only get worse if more people aren't encouraged out of highsec. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 254	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:07:00 - [9] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Make ice depletable in the same way that ores are. This will force adaptation where none has ever occurred, potentially even driving conflicts and increasing demand. Develop a system that legitimizes miner vs. miner conflicts over resources, such as the Ally system. Letting ice deplete just like ore makes all sense, can't find any reason against it. But Miner vs Miner conflicts are in the game, war decs works (most bots aren't in npc corps). And pure old bump and kill off their ore works like wonders. Having a fleet with better miners, better boost and better haulers. We can win a battle by making you make less isk. But of course, hiring people (or alts) to harass (as in either scare or gank) the enemy is one version. If you think that there's no miner-on-miner axxion, then you're not taking notes. Or just to innocent to notice what's going on in the shadows.
Josef Djugashvilis 661	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:11:00 - [10] - Quote Gogela wrote: Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. And I am sure that the three people left playing will have a super time. Too old, tired and ugly to care.

Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1220	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:11:00 - [11] - Quote Don't need ever increasing yields. Just as bad as damage power creep. In Ice systems, static location belts should be replaced with daily comets. Can warp directly to them but their location changes nullify bookmarks daily. Large leading comet cant be mined but the long trail of ice ejaculate can be depleted. Tail respawns throughout the day, but will force new targets as rocks pop. Keeps 30 people from working a single rock all day. Miner e-war. Indirectly fight competition with different personal costs such as fitting, yield, cargo. Special crystals or miners that can cause those mining from the same rocks to suffer from decreased yields, longer activations, or greater cap usage. Griefing miners via miners. Then particular ships could be more resistant to such tactics. Such as Hulk will be effected the least. whereas Macks moderately and Skiffs the most.
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 777	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:22:00 - [12] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: RAGE QU1T wrote: Gogela wrote: Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. The game would die a horrible death, Not all players want to live in null That is one of the core problems of the game & things will only get worse if more people aren't encouraged out of highsec. You're not encouraging people to move anywhere else than another game, bravo. The core problem of why so many people are not encouraged moving to null is Null sec players themselves and their so pitiful opinion of high sec and players living there, their often pitiful actions and above all their pitiful posting about it. Lived there and I've enjoyed it, moved to low and I enjoyed it, moved to null and I'm loving it. But this is only because I was curious enough to try it out by my self, never because null sec dudes posting and acting in high sec felt like so interesting or superior or whatever. You clearly spit on each and every high sec player or their activity when you are the biggest exploiters of each and every single fail/bad implemented/advantage of high sec with your alt corporations and alts. (yours means all null sec) Then you guys beg CCP to make it so players join null sec or low sec....what a nice joke, I'm still laughing, ho dear this is hilarious... brb
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 57	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:22:00 - [13] - Quote Gogela wrote: Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. Because theres only ONE right way to play a sandbox game .....................
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:23:00 - [14] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Allow smartbombs to be activated in the vicinity of anchored containers, both secure and unsecure. Increase the yield of the Hulk by adding additional grid and cpu and an extra hardpoint to make it a more attractive option for "ninja miners." Introduce the chance for much more difficult NPC spawns to appear anywhere materials can be harvested, and with greater frequency. Make ice depletable in the same way that ores are. This will force adaptation where none has ever occurred, potentially even driving conflicts and increasing demand. Develop a system that legitimizes miner vs. miner conflicts over resources, such as the Ally system. On smartbombs. I thought you could. GSC's and cans just caused lag for you apparently. I've never used or even considered using GSC/cans as a shield. And I mined 3 Hulks and Orca for a long time. Not an issue imho. In Ninja mining with a Hulk. Give me a "de-scrammer" as an option and it might just work. Failing that, Hulk dead whatever you do. Use won't increase. I tried it once or twice and I suffered from andrenaline withdrawal for 10 minutes every time even a pixel twinked. On increased NPC in belts, I agree. I suggested exploding roids the other day as well, to errr.... educate miners about tank. On ice - meh. Bots can re-target. AFK can re-target. A reduction in ice maybe to make it more finite? On the last, and this has been mentioned before many times, if you made ore belts smaller, more finite etc. all of the things "anti-miners" want come true. Markets will lift, greater conflict etc. But it could also be detrimental to the game. Playstyle is what playstyle is. Penalising any playstyle without considering the impacts on the players within that playstyle is a Pandoras Box. The oft used, cold, harsh universe, this is eve, deal with it ad infinitum does not bear out the reality that his $15 is worth exactly the same as your $15. We serve a greater master - placate him - then change away. I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
Vanyr Andrard Foo Holdings Free 2 Play 4	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:24:00 - [15] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: RAGE QU1T wrote: Gogela wrote: Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. The game would die a horrible death, Not all players want to live in null That is one of the core problems of the game & things will only get worse if more people aren't encouraged out of highsec. Encouraged out of highsec yes, bludgeoned out of highsec no. Gogela's suggestion is too much iron fist, not enough velvet glove. Move ice out of highsec, yes. Rebalance the mineral supply so high-ends are worth more than low-ends again, yes. No more lvl3's or 4's in highsec...little too far.
Crispin McTarmac School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 23	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:10:00 - [16] - Quote Remember loss of your ship or your life is not the only risk which exists. Failed investment is currently the most important risk in highsec, and it can be extended to any activity simply by giving that activity a (non-trivial) cost.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 1022	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:23:00 - [17] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: RAGE QU1T wrote: Gogela wrote: Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. The game would die a horrible death, Not all players want to live in null That is one of the core problems of the game & things will only get worse if more people aren't encouraged out of highsec. But they will not be encouraged out of high sec, they will be encouraged out of the game. CCP gets less money as a result. Also be fore you say Good Riddance, consider: You want targets and people in low and Null. At present many stay in high sec, and are not in low or null. Change high sec to make it less desirable: Those players leave Eve which means they are not in low or null. Change high sec or not, those players will not be in low or null. Your goal: More people in low or null, will not be achieved. The reason they do not want to go to low or null is adrenaline. Many simply do not like the sensations caused by adrenaline, and will avoid situations that trigger it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 802	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:25:00 - [18] - Quote CCP will not, under any circumstances do anything that makes highsec more dangerous for carebears. It just won't happen regardless of how many well-meaning threads people make.
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 255	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:29:00 - [19] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: CCP will not, under any circumstances do anything that makes highsec more dangerous for carebears. It just won't happen regardless of how many well-meaning threads people make. Because carebares ship more actual money into CCP or becase they're all carebares in heart?
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 1022	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:31:00 - [20] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: CCP will not, under any circumstances do anything that makes highsec more dangerous for carebears. It just won't happen regardless of how many well-meaning threads people make. Any why should they? If a given player does not like high, they can fly elsewhere. No one is forcing you to live in high sec and deal with the players there. You may say "But low sec is undesirable due to reasons xxx and yyy". Well if high sec was turned into low sec, it would gain those exact same problems! http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/

Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 1022	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:35:00 - [21] - Quote Lors Dornick wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: CCP will not, under any circumstances do anything that makes highsec more dangerous for carebears. It just won't happen regardless of how many well-meaning threads people make. Because carebares ship more actual money into CCP or becase they're all carebares in heart? For the same reason low sec will not be turned into high sec, and null sec will stay null sec, W will stay W. Each area appeals to a segment of the player base. Having as many different areas, allowing different play styles, as possible attracts more customers. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 1227	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:35:00 - [22] - Quote Kitty Bear wrote: Gogela wrote: Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. Because there's only ONE right way to play a sandbox game ..................... edit I figured I'd better explain that the above is not a validation of your statement, just incase you somehow manage to completely misinterpet it as such. It's more scathing disdain. The ironic thing is that you lamers that cower in empire are the ones always crying about anything that mildly perturbs in any way your closed-in repetitive game play. I'm trying to open it up. You want everything to stay exactly the same. You aren't as important as you think, empire tools. Nobody would even notice if you weren't there. In many ways it's already as if you aren't. I have about had it w/ empire people. Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦ GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Spurty V0LTA Verge of Collapse 499	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:36:00 - [23] - Quote Alts Many of these high sec bears have sov holding null sec mains. Simbiant relationship would be jeopardized In short, you have all you'll get into low / null already. Use what resources you have better. ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1557	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:39:00 - [24] - Quote Gogela wrote: Kitty Bear wrote: Gogela wrote: Get the NPC money out of empire. Level 3 and 4 missions all move to low and null, only veldspar available in .5+ systems, etc... Will solve most problems. Because there's only ONE right way to play a sandbox game ..................... edit I figured I'd better explain that the above is not a validation of your statement, just incase you somehow manage to completely misinterpet it as such. It's more scathing disdain. The ironic thing is that you lamers that cower in empire are the ones always crying about anything that mildly perturbs in any way your closed-in repetitive game play. I'm trying to open it up. You want everything to stay exactly the same. You aren't as important as you think, empire tools. Nobody would even notice if you weren't there. In many ways it's already as if you aren't. I have about had it w/ empire people. It's hilarious because they get what they want, so clearly CCP thinks they're pretty important. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 256	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:44:00 - [25] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: Lors Dornick wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: CCP will not, under any circumstances do anything that makes highsec more dangerous for carebears. It just won't happen regardless of how many well-meaning threads people make. Because carebares ship more actual money into CCP or becase they're all carebares in heart? For the same reason low sec will not be turned into high sec, and null sec will stay null sec, W will stay W. Each area appeals to a segment of the player base. Having as many different areas, allowing different play styles, as possible attracts more customers. I actually don't think that CCP really has any reason to care about the random label we give to eachother. CCP has to focus on one thing and that that's having people pay for the game (and that's pay, not use plex). Hisec, losec, w-sec, n-sec, pvp, pve or generic bear. CCP can only have one focus, get people to pay (by flashing cash) for the game.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 157	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:54:00 - [26] - Quote I'm pretty sure a lot of nullsec industrial base relies on high security because trying to do indy in 0.0 sucks ass and everyone makes fun of you for it. Now if you completely nerfed highsec you'd probably screw the 0.0 even more than highsec dwellers who will simply just shrug and continue or just stop playing.
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1041	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:55:00 - [27] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: CCP will not, under any circumstances do anything that makes highsec more dangerous for carebears. It just won't happen regardless of how many well-meaning threads people make. As much as I like the direction Darth's proposals would take the game in, the above is exactly true. I'm starting to think that this type of progression is simply the logical conclusion for games of this type. No matter how hardcore a game starts out, within a few years the urge to cater to everyone takes over and the hardcore becomes the casual. I can''t name a single game that maintained its original premise over such a long period of time, but I can name many that were changed to suit the average kitty-faced derper as time went on. People like dollars, apparently. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 1228	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:56:00 - [28] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: It's hilarious because they get what they want, so clearly CCP thinks they're pretty important. Something needs to be done. I blame myself. When the new wardec mechanic hit I was going to go after a bunch of soft empire corps just to ruin them, but ended up going after a hard target which turned out to be fruitless. Then work.. then a market project... always some excuse. When my market stuff wraps about winter-expansion time I'm going into the empire sand-castle kicking business. To the NPC corps with you all. Every Ship in GëíGêçGëí \| (Works in-game only)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1041	Posted - 2012.10.08 23:00:00 - [29] - Quote Gogela wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: It's hilarious because they get what they want, so clearly CCP thinks they're pretty important. Something needs to be done. I blame myself. When the new wardec mechanic hit I was going to go after a bunch of soft empire corps just to ruin them, but ended up going after a hard target which turned out to be fruitless. Then work.. then a market project... always some excuse. When my market stuff wraps about winter-expansion time I'm going into the empire sand-castle kicking business. To the NPC corps with you all. Let me know if you need help. That's the way I'll be riding out the game myself right up to the point they ban me for "griefing" or whatever other label they put on their no-longer favored features. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 803	Posted - 2012.10.08 23:02:00 - [30] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: or whatever other label they put on their no-longer favored features. You mean PVP, right?



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