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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 88 post(s) |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc. Talocan United
2
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:10:00 -
[181] - Quote
Have you tested the new "healthcircles" with setups where there is a lot of movement? F.e. with a alphafleet on the one side and shieldlogis on the other. Might not be so easy to see what is shields when all bars move at the same time up and down. Or a handful of ships beating on a x-large ASB sleipnir. Also the new locked targets look bigger, like everything else in the UI got bigger. There are people who don-¦t play on high resolutions and are already running low on actual room to see something. Now try it with 10 locked targets and the new aggressionflags... Please don-¦t force us to get better hardware just fo rsuch little tweeks. Another thing is "how visable is it if you are breaking something-¦s tank or not?" Atm we can use things like the text below the bars to measure the movement. Not possible with the circles. Please try it with stuff like a large DEDbooster tengu or carriers. The locktimevalue no longer displaying is also a bad thing. For the notifications: A lot of players already use colourcoded notifications where the different things are in different colours, so for example you just look for red if you want to know who is doing something, green for what he is doing and blue for whom he is doing it to. Maybe incorporate something like this. Overall I have to say: Needs more work please. And don-¦t just go with it because you already put in so much work. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
463
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:14:00 -
[182] - Quote
CCP karkur I like everything your showing :D
may I come with an idea? The ability to add different bracket informations in space next to selected ships? I am thinking like adding angular velocity or velocity to ships you have either targeted or selected, something that could be added from overview settings or something so it's something people have to add themselves if desired. Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Ugleb
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
241
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:16:00 -
[183] - Quote
Andski wrote:Brackets should flash distinctly when the other ship is using an assistance module on you. This would be pretty useful in situations i.e. cap chaining where the only indications that they're transferring capacitor to you are the effect (which is usually turned off) and the fact that your capacitor is increasing.
Maybe something similar to the 'hit icon sequence' pulsing animation but in green or blue? It could become more intense as you receive a larger rep amount per cycle. http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/ To contact [-MM-] or [UNITY]: http://www.masuataa.co.uk/defaul1t.asp - channel "Masuat'aa Public" http://www.ushrakhan.com/ - channel "Voices U'K" |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1343
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:19:00 -
[184] - Quote
Ugleb wrote:Andski wrote:Brackets should flash distinctly when the other ship is using an assistance module on you. This would be pretty useful in situations i.e. cap chaining where the only indications that they're transferring capacitor to you are the effect (which is usually turned off) and the fact that your capacitor is increasing. Maybe something similar to the 'hit icon sequence' pulsing animation but in green or blue? It could become more intense as you receive a larger rep amount per cycle. This is something that has come up in our meetings (except we were thinking blue) ... but we haven't made any decision on it yet. CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Pony Express | @CCP karkur |
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Caldari 5
The Element Syndicate
14
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:19:00 -
[185] - Quote
I only just noticed the new DevBlog before heading to work(+10GMT its 8:20AM Local Time) First reaction is Love the new In space "Brackets" and Hate the new Locked Target information. Seriously Which indicator is Shield/Armor/Hull, with the old one it was Top Down which is easy to see at a glance.
I'll Probably Make a new post when I get home from work and back on the net. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
387
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:23:00 -
[186] - Quote
Where on the circle shield armor and hull should be would be a great test of the new voting fuctionality you are going to add to the client |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
929
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:23:00 -
[187] - Quote
Myrkala wrote:CCP Prism X wrote:So.. Which one is shield? The left one. So..
- Left: Shield
- Right: Armor
- Bottom: Structure
No, no no no. Shield is in top right, then go clockwise from there for armor and structure. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
John Nucleus
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:26:00 -
[188] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:CCP karkur wrote:Many of you are worried that you will not know which bar is which. I personally think that people will just know once the they start playing with it, and I look forward to seeing how you feel about it when you have tested it yourself. We are going to be looking into what we can do to make it clearer, especially if we find out that people just don't get it. That being said, we are still so deep in development of this that it might completely change, who knows :P QFT Just keep in mind change is scary and people are resistant to it. The three bar things isn't intuitive, it is just what people know, A brand new player has no indication that shield is on top anymore than they do that structure is on bottom. People need to stop confusing intuition with familiarity. Just because YOU know top is shields, doesnGÇÖt mean it is intuitive.
The three bars are similar to how your own HP is displayed on your HUD, shield top then armor and structure. So I would say it's intuitive because it's familiar. |
Mocktar Olachenko
10
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:27:00 -
[189] - Quote
I'll attempt to offer my feedback bit by bit, but overall there's not much here I really like. It seems to be "change for the sake of change" and that usually does not breed a very useful outcome. In the grand scheme of things, the present targeting UI is completely sufficient and does its job adequately, and there are far better things that could be fixed in the UI (*COUGH* DRONES *COUGH*).
On the "who is damaging me and how hard" indicator: In theory it sounds neat but honestly I'm not sure how useful I'd find it. One of the skills every Eve pilot learns is target assessment and pretty soon it becomes second nature. For example, someone earlier stated they'll always know an Ibis is tickling them but a Megathron will be laying the hurt much harder. Maybe that's not particularly clear to a complete newbie but I think by a month everyone has pretty much figured it out. To me, it'll just be a bunch of additional distracting blinks on the screen.
On the circular target reticule: This change I don't like one bit. Sure, it looks subjectively cool, but at the cost of intuitiveness and clarity. There is nothing wrong with the reticule at present: shields at top, then armor, then hull. It makes perfect sense. With the bars surrounding the circle it's not quite as clear. Your response so far has been "Well after you play with it for a bit you'll get the hang of it and it will be clear which is which." Why learn something new when what we have works just fine? Additionally, the compactness of the current S/A/H display makes it much easier to see at a glance how damaged something is. If you think of the current display as one larger rectangle broken into three sections, it's quite easy to glance and see "hey, half this ship's rectangle is gone." Whereas with the new system, your eye has to look at three different parts of the reticule to get the same information. That takes more time, which is a backwards step. You've said it will likely be an option if desired to turn off the new damage and in-range indicators, so If you insist on rolling out this change at least give us the option to choose between square and circular reticules; this seems to be a fair compromise.
On the new bracket changes: Personally I prefer the "square" aesthetic myself for the targeting and aggressing brackets, but I understand it's to match the new circular targeting reticules. I've already voiced my displeasure of the circular design overall. Again, if it could be an option in the UI to have a circular or square design I'd be fine with that. I do like the idea of the "in targeting range" graphic. Oh, and for the love of everything in New Eden, please do not lose the "time to target" box! |
Angeliq
Soimii Patriei Nulli Secunda
162
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:28:00 -
[190] - Quote
The NEW target UI looks like the initial OLD UI.
Good job guy! (I'm being sarcastic now)
http://www.zurb.com/blog_uploads/0000/0097/1.jpg Velator vs Tornado https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62323 Velator vs Oracle https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=109741 |
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Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:31:00 -
[191] - Quote
You can't seriously be redesigning this without adding an indication of the target's capacitor level, can you? If you don't add that, this amounts to fluff nobody asked for. Again. |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1344
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:31:00 -
[192] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:Have you tested the new "healthcircles" with setups where there is a lot of movement? F.e. with a alphafleet on the one side and shieldlogis on the other. Might not be so easy to see what is shields when all bars move at the same time up and down. Or a handful of ships beating on a x-large ASB sleipnir. Also the new locked targets look bigger, like everything else in the UI got bigger. There are people who don-¦t play on high resolutions and are already running low on actual room to see something. Now try it with 10 locked targets and the new aggressionflags... Please don-¦t force us to get better hardware just fo rsuch little tweeks. Another thing is "how visable is it if you are breaking something-¦s tank or not?" Atm we can use things like the text below the bars to measure the movement. Not possible with the circles. Please try it with stuff like a large DEDbooster tengu or carriers. The locktimevalue no longer displaying is also a bad thing. For the notifications: A lot of players already use colourcoded notifications where the different things are in different colours, so for example you just look for red if you want to know who is doing something, green for what he is doing and blue for whom he is doing it to. Maybe incorporate something like this. Overall I have to say: Needs more work please. And don-¦t just go with it because you already put in so much work. To be honest, I don't think this will work in all situations, and we want to allow you to toggle it on/off.
And I just did a quick size comparison on the targets, and they aren't really much bigger.
Interesting, do people use the text to measure movement? . Today we discussed something similar, how to better see that the bar is moving, and we'll probably discuss it more and find some magic solution.
For the colors... how are people doing that?
Thank you for your feedback, we know it needs more work... that's why we will continue working on it CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Pony Express | @CCP karkur |
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Lin Fatale
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:33:00 -
[193] - Quote
I would prefer if you could fix things that are really broken first like tactical overview or the mega menu if you are fleet boss where you have a hundret option something like you could configure your tactical ov or the menus |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
913
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:34:00 -
[194] - Quote
The square to circles looks very cool!
My main issue is, looking at it from a glance, i have no clue which one is the shields, armor, structure. I think you need to address how we can identify them better... please. Thank you.
I think the idea of showing the pulsing damage is excellent. Can we maybe get ewar icons or an ewar thing going on near there as well? Where I am. |
Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:34:00 -
[195] - Quote
CCP Sisyphus wrote:Salpun wrote:When will the damage notification be movable And the log be easeier to read? Give us time... How does :18months: sound? Or are we up to 36 now? Do I hear 48? |
Kaelarian
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Flatline.
5
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:36:00 -
[196] - Quote
I like the WIP so far, though I think the suggestions for a layered circle approach have merit for at-a-glance readability.
Bubanni wrote:CCP karkur I like everything your showing :D
may I come with an idea? The ability to add different bracket informations in space next to selected ships? I am thinking like adding angular velocity or velocity to ships you have either targeted or selected, something that could be added from overview settings or something so it's something people have to add themselves if desired.
You should give us togglable directed popups with whatever overview info we configure to put in them, along the lines of what it shows in the Apocrypha trailer.
The popup need not be visible all the time. It could show only on the actively selected target or possibly on all targets with a setting to change this behavior if it doesn't degrade performance too much.
One team was already working on popups in space as part of the tutorial system. This could be another use for them.
You could also make it available as a key-press event so it/they don't get in the way in combat.
Example information: In the popup show the damage log entry from that ship, like it appears at the top of the screen. You could also show a running approximate dps from that ship. You could show the dps you're sending to it (not what it is actually receiving), only modified by what the client has access to: the other ship's velocity vector vs your turrets' tracking ability and raw damage output. This could/should be calculated locally. Any selected overview info could be placed here, such as faction, angular velocity, velocity, ship name, etc.
The popup could be available for un-targeted ships but only display readily available overview data.
Just a thought. |
Sable Blitzmann
Fist of Eargon The Jagged Alliance
46
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:39:00 -
[197] - Quote
Love the new changes. However, I was hoping for possibly adding capacitor state to the target lock. This is something that's been asked for again and again. We can see shields, armor, and structure hitpoint percentages, but we cannot read the targets capacitor. I think adding this will go a long way for those who like to neut. I know that I don't neut a lot because I'm unsure just how effective I am at disabling my target. Having this information will mix up pvp a bit. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9825
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:39:00 -
[198] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:Make the health bars colored.
Shield = Blue
Armor = Green
Structure = Yellow I'm not sureGǪ If you make the colour strong, it'll just make for a technicolour jumble where it becomes difficult to make out the damage, and if you make it subtle, there's the question of why use it at all since they will be fairly similar.
Compare this non-coloured version, but with a gap to provide a hint about the beginning and end of the gauge (and a gentle arrow effect to show the direction), and the coloured version of the same display. I don't feel like those colours add much except make it look more cluttered and messy. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
913
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:42:00 -
[199] - Quote
I don't like the loss of the "timer" to lock indicator. Although the completion circle communicates well, I want to know if I have another 10 seconds to lock or another 2 seconds to lock the target.
To resolve the "which is shield" - I really like the symmetry of the bars. I think the real issue is just adding a little icon in between the shield and structure that indicates this is where everything "Starts and ends".
So at the top of the circle, put a >< image between the 2 bars, or a Shield Image, or a Little Dot or something to indicate the start and end. Where I am. |
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
576
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:43:00 -
[200] - Quote
This is an amazing feature. Getting very excited. |
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Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
47
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:44:00 -
[201] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kethry Avenger wrote:Make the health bars colored.
Shield = Blue
Armor = Green
Structure = Yellow I'm not sureGǪ If you make the colour strong, it'll just make for a technicolour jumble where it becomes difficult to make out the damage, and if you make it subtle, there's the question of why use it at all since they will be fairly similar. Compare this non-coloured version, but with a gap to provide a hint about the beginning and end of the gauge (and a gentle arrow effect to show the direction), and the coloured version of the same display. I don't feel like those colours add much except make it look more cluttered and messy.
<---- Not a UI designer. Just spit balling. Though I would pick more EVE like colors, pastels probably wouldn't work. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
210
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:44:00 -
[202] - Quote
Just a quick question as we're all having fun with what to do with new graphical elements for the Overview UI etcetera...
Can we maybe get some under-the-hood work on the Overview System so its less buggy so it doest:
1) Go mental under laggy conditions when we use custom bracket profiles. 2) Show up blues as neutrals every so often 3) Automatically default certain options in the overview settings to "on" even when you've expressly turned them off both in-game and out of game in a custom XML File. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
753
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:45:00 -
[203] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Many of you are worried that you will not know which bar is which. I personally think that people will just know once the they start playing with it, and I look forward to seeing how you feel about it when you have tested it yourself. We are going to be looking into what we can do to make it clearer, especially if we find out that people just don't get it. That being said, we are still so deep in development of this that it might completely change, who knows :P
Don't be so sure. Someone pointed out to me earlier today that the game, in its early phases (we're talking like 2003-2004 here) had circular indicators for HP like what we're looking at here and that - wait for it - people were confused by them!
Swidgen wrote:You can't seriously be redesigning this without adding an indication of the target's capacitor level, can you? If you don't add that, this amounts to fluff nobody asked for. Again.
That's not info available to you at all (except by target scanner, maybe?) Why would it be included and openly available? This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
913
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:46:00 -
[204] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kethry Avenger wrote:Make the health bars colored.
Shield = Blue
Armor = Green
Structure = Yellow I'm not sureGǪ If you make the colour strong, it'll just make for a technicolour jumble where it becomes difficult to make out the damage, and if you make it subtle, there's the question of why use it at all since they will be fairly similar. Compare this non-coloured version, but with a gap to provide a hint about the beginning and end of the gauge (and a gentle arrow effect to show the direction), and the coloured version of the same display. I don't feel like those colours add much except make it look more cluttered and messy.
I dont know if the arrows are necessary, but I think adding a gap with an image is a good idea, same thing I proposed before I read yours (Although I posted after) Where I am. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
463
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:48:00 -
[205] - Quote
CCP karkur wouldn't it be time to update the brackets themselves also? something that can give plenty of information about standings like now, but also doesn't block out the ships your looking at, even from a distance? unless you play without brackets
It's basicly impossible to play without brackets unless your just sitting still or set orbit on an FC as it's very hard to see where the hostile ships would be at in space, what if brackets where thinner and had a colour depending on standing
Like this?:
http://i.imgur.com/Dk5Nu.jpg
(different shapes as examples?, also leet ms paint skills) Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
SyntaxPD
PowerDucks PowerDucks Alliance
22
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:48:00 -
[206] - Quote
I'd more like square targeted icons... Circle is just... fine, but i better like corners. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9826
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:49:00 -
[207] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:<---- Not a UI designer. Just spit balling. Though I would pick more EVE like colors, pastels probably wouldn't work. Agreed, but that's just it: they have to be rather light and faint, or they'll drown out the damage colour (unless, counter-intuitively, you make the damage a very light). On the other hand, if you make them very strong and darker, they risk blending in with the surrounding space and/or the black background of the targeting circle.
You get more contrast if you go for light grey vs. bright red than if you go for bright [colour] vs. bright red. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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mkint
901
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:51:00 -
[208] - Quote
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Ark Anhammar
EVE University Ivy League
25
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:52:00 -
[209] - Quote
Cordo Draken wrote:Actually I like the Circles (i.e. Targets)... As for seeing the Shield, Armor, Structure at a glance... I think it's just a matter of getting used to it. Even w/o knowing what they plan I'd guess that Shields would be on the left, Armor = Right side & Structure on the bottom... It seems rather logical to me. Hell, after having to get used to the new inventory UI, this is a piece of Cake, and it will become "At a Glance" in no time as it's only 3 bars. I think keeping Circles around the target would be awesome, but I propose these tweaks:
-Can you order the Shield on the left, Armor on the Right and structure at the bottom?
-When the Shield/Armor are depleted, they should start at the top (100%) and slowly be reduced toward the bottom (structure). So a ship with 10% shield and 20% armor would have small bar on the lower left, little bigger bar on the lower right and a bar at the bottom for structure.
-Color coding the bars is definitely a good idea--maybe the bar could go from a solid color at the top (gray) and as it's destroyed it could change color gradually into red until it disappears?
-Could we try segmented bars to give a better guess-timation about the remaining %?
-Can we try leaving the Square lock/bars at the top of the screen, but use the new circular dynamic bars on the actual ship?
Just some thoughts, but I love it overall!
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Tork Norand
Mechanical Eagles Inc. The Ancients.
114
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:53:00 -
[210] - Quote
I read about half the posts, then decided to reply...I don't think I'm repeating anyone, but who knows.
Instead of doing the 120-¦ arcs around the target (I am not a fan of that look), I would suggest doing it like your own ship is displayed. Three 180-¦ arcs stacked (Shields on top, Armor in the middle, Hull as the innermost). That would be on each target both as the icons and on the brackets.
Then, you have the lower-half to indicate damage amount (red), ewar level, or whatever other information. Possibly one option would be "which target is hurting me the most over the past 10 seconds?" with each target getting a portion of it's "pi". :)
If you keep with the square icons (which there's no real reason to change from), then you could put the defenses on the top half of the icon and the other data below the icon. The icon itself doesn't need to be as large as it is now (and in fact, a name may be a better choice).
I would also highly recommend letting the end user turn on and off what they want to see here and in what order (and what color). That will take some extra work but the client is receiving the data anyway, let the user decide what and how much data he wants displayed.
--Tork. CEO and Herder of Cats. |
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