So, uh...how do you tell what's shield/armor/structure with the circle then? Try coloring them, perhaps.

So, uh...how do you tell what's shield/armor/structure with the circle then? Try coloring them, perhaps.

Yes, we're still tweaking that. When you see the damage being inflicted it is very obvious, but a common theme of all feedback has been 'which one is shield?'

Yes, we're still tweaking that. When you see the damage being inflicted it is very obvious, but a common theme of all feedback has been 'which one is shield?'

Yes, we're still tweaking that. When you see the damage being inflicted it is very obvious, but a common theme of all feedback has been 'which one is shield?'

Yes, we're still tweaking that. When you see the damage being inflicted it is very obvious, but a common theme of all feedback has been 'which one is shield?'

Another option would be to make 3 thin circles around the target, one for shield, one for armor, one for structure, rather than 3 thicker lines that are 33% of a circle. The shield circle contains the armor circle and the armor circle contains the structure circle, inside the structure circle is the picture of the ship.

Might be harder to glance at though.

When will the damage notification be movable
And the log be easeier to read?

Give us time...

rofl, my first got deleted. Damn you ccp ninja skills

Edit: So a few things.

First, in the new UI you show how the both the raven and the avatar are locked. On the Titan it shows the shield and armor and hull indicators with corresponding damage. However on the raven it is only a single bar that has full shield (which is correct) but no notification on the armor and hull damage. Is this because the raven is not the active target? If this is correct could we get it so that all targets show the full damage layout?

So, any way to make this something we don't need to have forced on us? I kinda like the current targeting UI atm.

I would like to see it as something we are "delivering" to you, not forcing it on you
We do not want to have the 2 system living side by side, we just want to make this on right so you will like it!

So.. Which one is shield?

Give us time...

Please make the yellow box and red box icons still flash, its a lot easier to notice them that way :)

other than that, awesome

That is the ewar time on the Raven, instead of the normal bar, it is also displayed as the circle graph...I caught this from a simple glance. <.<

I would like to see it as something we are "delivering" to you, not forcing it on you
We do not want to have the 2 system living side by side, we just want to make this on right so you will like it!

please make sure this adds no extra server calls or data requests from the server

I would like to see it as something we are "delivering" to you, not forcing it on you We do not want to have the 2 system living side by side, we just want to make this on right so you will like it!

please make sure this adds no extra server calls or data requests from the server

actually, after staring at the pic for a bit i see that its the lock timer. The avatar and one raven are already locked. The raven that is locked has no damage notifications on it. The raven that is being locked has a grey bar at roughly 25% of the full circle, which is confusing because in the other image the lock timer has just started (15 sec).

It isn't ewar i believe, its the lock timer which is slightly confusing considering there are two ravens.

12 oclock to 4 oclock.

Will there be an indication when I or my drones hit? What will other's drones look like that hit me? What bout ships I do not have targeted hitting me, what will they look like? Im wondering what the screen will look like when 30 NPCs are all shooting and hitting me.

What is being done to minimize server load for these icons and to compensate for those who do not use brackets? In many larger scale fleet fights brackets are turned off to make sure clients are able to function properly. For many who do not have "current series" hardware when it comes to their processor and graphics card; they may not be able to handle the extra load to their computer. I'm currently running Eve on newer hardware components, but I still keep my brackets off most of the time when I PvP.

That said, the changes look great! Looking forward to hearing more as development progresses!

one thing i would love:

do not give percentage values but "absolute" ones (EHP) for shield, armor and hull, so when i have someone targeted i can see how he is tanked, a huuuuge shield bar and a small armor bar might make me switch to some EM ammunition...

this could wonderfully work with circular thingies

As I said elsewhere, maybe something like this:

Pic

Blue = Shields
Green = Armor
Orange = Hull
Black tick = speed (or something else?)

Going to repost this as I do not think the devs are looking at the first couple of posts.

I like the idea behind this, as reading things can be difficult. However, can we make it more useful by having the opacity be a reflection as to how well they are hitting us instead of their damage/our HP? For instance: damage inflicted by enemy/maximum possible damage possible? Damage relative to HP isnGÇÖt all too helpful because your shipGÇÖs health is a very VERY easy stat to keep track of. However, having a visual que to knowing that you are under the guns of your opponent or that you have flown out of somoneGÇÖs optimal would be VERY helpful (as opposed to having those numbers memorized ).


Also, can we get the damage UI on every ship we have locked, not just the one we have selected? This would help out on logis as well as keeping track of primaries.

Last, with this being a really nice UI option, can we disable the stacked bar of ships we have locked? As it is already on our screen :) (would free up that vital screen space)

We want to display who is seriously hurting you and threatening your life... and if I'm shooting at you with my Civilian gun and getting some AMAZING hits in (for me), it wouldn't make much sense that I was flashing bright red, while the guy that is dealing 20x my damage is just blinking faintly because he can do a lot better, would it?
(the current damage messages actually categorize the hits based on the ability of the module)


And I don't really understand.. you say you want the health bars on all the targets, and then you say you want to disable them?

I'm glad you mentioned that there is something within the new aggression picture.
Being color-blind (well, only red-blind according to my doctor but who knows what that means) I missed that!

I don't get why the hit animation has to be so complicated. Make it blink when they fire. Don't need a mathematical equation for opacity, which nobody's going to be paying much attention to anyway.

As far as the animation goes when you're establishing target lock, you could make it like a timer that goes all the way around the circle. So if it takes 12 seconds to lock a ship, the circle takes 12 seconds to fill up

We want to display who is seriously hurting you and threatening your life... and if I'm shooting at you with my Civilian gun and getting some AMAZING hits in (for me), it wouldn't make much sense that I was flashing bright red, while the guy that is dealing 20x my damage is just blinking faintly because he can do a lot better, would it?
(the current damage messages actually categorize the hits based on the ability of the module)

And I don't really understand.. you say you want the health bars on all the targets, and then you say you want to disable them?

So, uh...how do you tell what's shield/armor/structure with the circle then? Try coloring them, perhaps.

I would like to see it as something we are "delivering" to you, not forcing it on you
We do not want to have the 2 system living side by side, we just want to make this on right so you will like it!

Also...

I would like it if the UI symbol for "this guy is in your fleet / alliance / corp/ is-blue-to-you" were a bit more prominent than it is now. As things are currently, the tiny little symbol that is added to the target list is easy to miss mid-combat.

I think a color-coded border indicating standing would be perfect. It doesn't need to be very thick. Just enough so that logi and carrier pilots can see at a glance "shoot that guy" and "repair this guy".

Thanks. o7

So, uh...how do you tell what's shield/armor/structure with the circle then? Try coloring them, perhaps.

please make sure this adds no extra server calls or data requests from the server

What will the new indicator icons look like on the overview?

So.. Which one is shield?

I like the concept shown for the additional information shown on the brackets. The dev blog shows a targeting icon based on targeting range. This is mostly useless information for me. I live and fight in wormholes where most encounters occur at very close range. What I care about is the weapon range for my weapons and selected ammo. From a personal perspective, I would prefer to see the targeting icon when a target is inside my optimal + falloff instead of the targeting range of my ship.

What will the new indicator icons look like on the overview?

Everything goes clockwise, nice and consistent. But they start at inconsistent locations.

The client has all the information we need already... if anything you should be worried about client performance. But we are keeping a close eye on that, and if the client is not performing well enough, we are ready to react to that and cut stuff if needed.

The hit icon opacity thing sounds very cool and is a very nice visual indicator. However my concern is that it'll effectively display individual shots rather than the rate of incoming damage from a target. What I would suggest is that you have a value for opacity that diminishes at a certain rate (Whether it's linear, exponential or whatever isn't exactly important) and on each hit the value is topped up a little bit depending on the damage of the hit (Still the ratio of damage to HP) so that you can still see each individual shot come in as the opacity suddenly increases. So now a missile volley (Massive value) and turret shots (loads of little values) are now visibly comparable as you now have in a way a display of average incoming damage rather than what the last shot was like which isn't very helpful when you're trying to decide whether a missile boat or a turret boat is dealing more damage.

We did actually try that first... but then the big shots got completely lost.

The hit animation is to allow you to see at a glance who's doing some serious damage to you. I've been noobing in missions and have no idea who is really the one damaging me, but if I had these indicators, it would help me find that guy and shoot him down!

The targeting animation is like that... the 1/3 of a circle you see on the Raven in the "after" screenshot is the targeting animation... I'm sorry, I didn't notice until now that it kind of looks like it's the shield.

When they start aggressing, the 'yellow box' will turn red (but it will still be pretty subtle).

I'd argue big individual shots don't matter that much in relation to incoming DPS

It would be even more intuitive if the ship's own HUD worked that way, so that the presentation of information was absolutely consistent, right down to the HUD pulsing brightly when you land a wrecking strike, and dimly when you just graze your target.

So.. Which one is shield?

Just wondering how this is going to work with disabled brackets, may MANY players with machines on the lower end of the performance spectrum disable brackets during fleet fights. Are we still going to have the list of active targets and will disabling brackets turn off the "in-range" bracket? (I would hope yes on that second one, and I'm on the fence on the first personally).

Hmm, I note that module timers go around clockwise, but start at the 6 o'clock location. The damage circle also goes around clockwise, but starts at the 12 o'clock position.

Everything goes clockwise, nice and consistent. But they start at inconsistent locations.

Edit: Except the HUD. It goes counterclockwise with damage.

Counterclockwise is bad. Things must never go counterclockwise.

They do still pulse. The yellow lock, and red aggro isn't so changed (shape a bit)
This is still under work, so it is NOT going to be exactly this when it comes out. We want to get your feedback and try it out on public Test servers so we can make it better.

Counterclockwise is bad. Things must never go counterclockwise.

CCP Karkur,

There are some information that we just don't need, Like the Square in the middle of the screen saying " X blablabla bblaba alba 150 damgage uabauabu" we just read the numbers, we just need the numbers.... Remove it completly. and Place only the damage value over the shotting ship Bracket (hitting icon), with the same color transparency as the blink (of the hitting icon). And also The damage that we do, the yellow one, Place it Above ower weapon icon!!! that is it!!! And if you want to do some thing for the logistics too it will be awesome!!!!

Anyway... if you want a more detailed damage info... look at the log...



thx

o7

First of all, this is a big step forward. The only question is how big of a step can it be.

I agree with Two step (and others) that disambiguation is the route to improvement. But I would go further.

I would suggest that you consider making the s/a/h arcs cover the top hemisphere, just as they do in the current HUD. This would free up the bottom hemisphere for traffic light status icons.

These would be red octagon, yellow triangle, green circle (so you have both color and shape to help out the color-blind players) and could tell you things like:

* You (can / are close to being able to / cannot) target this guy.

* You can go (faster / about as fast / not nearly as fast) as this guy.

* Your (last activated on / being hovered over) weapon can (shoot for full damage / is in falloff / can't hit for crap).

* Your (last activated on / being hovered over) weapon can (fully track / sort of track / they're too fast for our turbolasers).

* And so on

Hovering over a targeted ship might give you a popup that gives more detailed information than the traffic lights.

You could also save space on the top arcs by dynamically changing their thickness, making the arc that has been taking damage recently but has the highest # of hp remaining thicker, and the other two thinner.

So, no damage would be thin (s) thin (a) thin (h)

Starting to take shield damage means thick / thin / thin

Into armor means thin / thick / thin

But if he gets shield reps, it might go back to thick / thin / thin

The point is, things should be as intuitively obvious as possible -- building on people's current familiarity and real-world intuition ("damage penetrates from outside to inside", "red is bad"). I shouldn't have to remember that shields are at the top, armor from 2 to 6-oclock, etc.

Or, if you really want to wow everyone, give us several alternatives, including the gee-wiz sci-fi movie mode, and let people choose which to use.

I'm a big fan of the concept of UIs being "immediately apparent", and the changes fail one test here. With the hit points of the shield/armour/structure it is not immediately apparent which one is which.

Many of you are worried that you will not know which bar is which.
I personally think that people will just know once the they start playing with it, and I look forward to seeing how you feel about it when you have tested it yourself.

another thing is, how does that flashy thing affect large fleet fights ? I guess these will put some stress to some computers out there when a few hundret players start attacking you. We can switch off effects, but can we switch this one off ?.

A thought; does this replace the current text damage notifications or will we still see those in addition to this new stuff?

I don't know if I just want just the one or both types of notification tbh.

This is what I think... you will need to see it once in action and then you'll just know.
I'm looking forward to seeing how people actually experience it on the test server... if people will be confused or just understand it right away.

Many of you are worried that you will not know which bar is which.
I personally think that people will just know once the they start playing with it, and I look forward to seeing how you feel about it when you have tested it yourself.
We are going to be looking into what we can do to make it clearer, especially if we find out that people just don't get it.
That being said, we are still so deep in development of this that it might completely change, who knows :P

Many of you are worried that you will not know which bar is which.
I personally think that people will just know once the they start playing with it, and I look forward to seeing how you feel about it when you have tested it yourself.
We are going to be looking into what we can do to make it clearer, especially if we find out that people just don't get it.
That being said, we are still so deep in development of this that it might completely change, who knows :P

Many of you are worried that you will not know which bar is which.
I personally think that people will just know once the they start playing with it, and I look forward to seeing how you feel about it when you have tested it yourself.
We are going to be looking into what we can do to make it clearer, especially if we find out that people just don't get it.
That being said, we are still so deep in development of this that it might completely change, who knows :P

This is all "in addition". The text damage notifications are next on the list to be improved.

There are some information that we just don't need, Like the Square in the middle of the screen saying " X blablabla bblaba alba 150 damgage uabauabu" we just read the numbers, we just need the numbers.... Remove it completly. and Place only the damage value over the shotting ship Bracket (hitting icon), with the same color transparency as the blink (of the hitting icon). And also The damage that we do, the yellow one, Place it Above ower weapon icon!!! that is it!!! And if you want to do some thing for the logistics too it will be awesome!!!!

Anyway... if you want a more detailed damage info... look at the log...

Many of you are worried that you will not know which bar is which.
I personally think that people will just know once the they start playing with it, and I look forward to seeing how you feel about it when you have tested it yourself.
We are going to be looking into what we can do to make it clearer, especially if we find out that people just don't get it.
That being said, we are still so deep in development of this that it might completely change, who knows :P

My idea is that all target ships should have 4 bars (shield, armor, hull, speed) allocated around thumbnail, player too. But for player there should be capacitor inside circle like it is now.

Just FYI, I've had to explain to new players which one is which, with the existing system. Shield/armor/hull is a bit more elaborate than "hit points." The stacking only becomes obvious once you learn that hierarchy. Wrapping the three around a circle is essentially putting them in a straight line, which is also obvious once you learn the way defenses work, because nothing affects hull without punching through armor first, and nothing affects armor without punching through shields first[1].

[1] Not necessarily all the way through, of course.

So.. Which one is shield?

The in space UI does look a bit better then before, i admit that, but the round icons of my targets and the round shield/armor/structure indicators are one one the worst ideas I have encountered so far in your attempt to make things "better".

There are some more pressing matters out there then this, i know that you wont e able to help out in the graphics department, but there must be something else that is worth improving ? Like adding a better overview to the assets menu for example.

QFT

Just keep in mind change is scary and people are resistant to it.

The three bar things isn't intuitive, it is just what people know, A brand new player has no indication that shield is on top anymore than they do that structure is on bottom.

People need to stop confusing intuition with familiarity. Just because YOU know top is shields, doesnGÇÖt mean it is intuitive.

Speed is already in the overview, cap would be interesting to put in there though.

We want to display who is seriously hurting you and threatening your life... and if I'm shooting at you with my Civilian gun and getting some AMAZING hits in (for me), it wouldn't make much sense that I was flashing bright red, while the guy that is dealing 20x my damage is just blinking faintly because he can do a lot better, would it?
(the current damage messages actually categorize the hits based on the ability of the module)

P.S. there are several small advantages to the concentric circular arrangement which you may have missed, for example:

- The length of the bar that indicates time-to-lock is approximately three times longer than before because it now wraps completely around the targeting bracket. This makes it easier to discern the speed at which your locking attempt is progressing.

- The length of the bar that indicates time-to-lock is approximately three times longer than before because it now wraps completely around the targeting bracket. This makes it easier to discern the speed at which your locking attempt is progressing.

- We are able to make the target icons larger and therefore more recognizable, did you notice that?

- The length of the bar that indicates time-to-lock is approximately three times longer than before because it now wraps completely around the targeting
bracket. This makes it easier to discern the speed at which your locking attempt is progressing.

- The spinning arrows around your selected target no longer cross over the shield/armor health bars

- Ship brackets are square, targeting brackets are rounded, this distinction should help new players especially

We are actually working on something like that... but we haven't started implementing it so I can't comment much more than that we are looking into that

Brackets should flash distinctly when the other ship is using an assistance module on you. This would be pretty useful in situations i.e. cap chaining where the only indications that they're transferring capacitor to you are the effect (which is usually turned off) and the fact that your capacitor is increasing.

Maybe something similar to the 'hit icon sequence' pulsing animation but in green or blue? It could become more intense as you receive a larger rep amount per cycle.

The left one.

So..

• Left: Shield
• Right: Armor
• Bottom: Structure

QFT

Just keep in mind change is scary and people are resistant to it.

The three bar things isn't intuitive, it is just what people know, A brand new player has no indication that shield is on top anymore than they do that structure is on bottom.

People need to stop confusing intuition with familiarity. Just because YOU know top is shields, doesnGÇÖt mean it is intuitive.

Have you tested the new "healthcircles" with setups where there is a lot of movement?
F.e. with a alphafleet on the one side and shieldlogis on the other. Might not be so easy to see what is shields when all bars move at the same time up and down. Or a handful of ships beating on a x-large ASB sleipnir.
Also the new locked targets look bigger, like everything else in the UI got bigger. There are people who don-¦t play on high resolutions and are already running low on actual room to see something. Now try it with 10 locked targets and the new aggressionflags... Please don-¦t force us to get better hardware just fo rsuch little tweeks.
Another thing is "how visable is it if you are breaking something-¦s tank or not?" Atm we can use things like the text below the bars to measure the movement. Not possible with the circles. Please try it with stuff like a large DEDbooster tengu or carriers.
The locktimevalue no longer displaying is also a bad thing.
For the notifications: A lot of players already use colourcoded notifications where the different things are in different colours, so for example you just look for red if you want to know who is doing something, green for what he is doing and blue for whom he is doing it to. Maybe incorporate something like this.
Overall I have to say: Needs more work please. And don-¦t just go with it because you already put in so much work.

Give us time...

If anything, I'd like to have an at-a-glance popup next to what I'm targeting displaying relevant info, ala many trailers such as like here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q62Wk3xWH8g&t=1m10s

CCP karkur I like everything your showing :D

may I come with an idea? The ability to add different bracket informations in space next to selected ships?
I am thinking like adding angular velocity or velocity to ships you have either targeted or selected, something that could be added from overview settings or something so it's something people have to add themselves if desired.

Make the health bars colored.

Shield = Blue

Armor = Green

Structure = Yellow

I'm not sureGǪ If you make the colour strong, it'll just make for a technicolour jumble where it becomes difficult to make out the damage, and if you make it subtle, there's the question of why use it at all since they will be fairly similar.

Compare this non-coloured version, but with a gap to provide a hint about the beginning and end of the gauge (and a gentle arrow effect to show the direction), and the coloured version of the same display. I don't feel like those colours add much except make it look more cluttered and messy.

Many of you are worried that you will not know which bar is which.
I personally think that people will just know once the they start playing with it, and I look forward to seeing how you feel about it when you have tested it yourself.
We are going to be looking into what we can do to make it clearer, especially if we find out that people just don't get it.
That being said, we are still so deep in development of this that it might completely change, who knows :P

You can't seriously be redesigning this without adding an indication of the target's capacitor level, can you? If you don't add that, this amounts to fluff nobody asked for. Again.

I'm not sureGǪ If you make the colour strong, it'll just make for a technicolour jumble where it becomes difficult to make out the damage, and if you make it subtle, there's the question of why use it at all since they will be fairly similar.

Compare this non-coloured version, but with a gap to provide a hint about the beginning and end of the gauge (and a gentle arrow effect to show the direction), and the coloured version of the same display. I don't feel like those colours add much except make it look more cluttered and messy.

<---- Not a UI designer. Just spit balling. Though I would pick more EVE like colors, pastels probably wouldn't work.

Actually I like the Circles (i.e. Targets)... As for seeing the Shield, Armor, Structure at a glance... I think it's just a matter of getting used to it. Even w/o knowing what they plan I'd guess that Shields would be on the left, Armor = Right side & Structure on the bottom... It seems rather logical to me. Hell, after having to get used to the new inventory UI, this is a piece of Cake, and it will become "At a Glance" in no time as it's only 3 bars.

This is something that has come up in our meetings (except we were thinking blue) ... but we haven't made any decision on it yet.

I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.

I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.